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028 - Presidential Transition | Beth Eppinger, Dr. J.C. Stoner
52 Plays1 month ago
Get ready for an exclusive look into the inner workings of SWACUHO leadership! Fresh off the 60th anniversary conference, host Ricky Harris talks with immediate past president Beth Eppinger and current president Dr. J.C. Stoner. The trio unpacks the unique and contrasting pathways that led both guests to the presidency, proving there is no single "right" way to lead. From the resilience required after losing an election to the unglamorous realities of managing the SWACUHO email inbox, Beth and J.C. share candid insights on redefining success and leaving a lasting legacy. Whether you are a seasoned leader or looking to join your very first committee, this episode offers invaluable advice on building habits, finding your voice, and making a tangible impact on the region.
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Transcript
Introduction and Conference Success
00:00:01
Speaker
Grab your coffee and pull up a chair. It's time for another episode of the Swakuho podcast. I'm your host, Ricky Harris.
00:00:10
Speaker
Since our last episode, we wrapped up a successful 60th anniversary conference with over 325 attendees joining us in Waco,
Leadership Transition
00:00:17
Speaker
Texas. At the conference, as happens every year, our transition from one president to another occurred at the closing banquet.
00:00:24
Speaker
Beth Eppinger, now our immediate past president, passed the gavel to Dr. J.C.
Guest Introductions
00:00:29
Speaker
Stoner. Today, I'm thrilled to have both presidents joining me for a conversation about their paths through SWACUHO leadership that led them to the presidency, how their goals and aspirations differed based on their unique perspectives, how the transition has been going, and much more.
00:00:44
Speaker
But for a bit more formal introduction to our guests who ironically enough are both joining us today from Denton, Texas. First, welcome Beth Eppinger, Assistant Director of Housing Administrative Services at Texas Women's University.
00:01:00
Speaker
And next, welcome Dr. J.C. Stoner, Director of Housing Systems and Services at the University of North Texas.
00:01:08
Speaker
Thank you both for joining me today.
Motivations for Leadership
00:01:10
Speaker
Let's dive right in. We'll start with conversation with some questions for both of you. So just feel free to take turns answering and chiming in as you'd like.
00:01:20
Speaker
Are we going to play nice in the sandbox, Beth, for taking turns? We'll see. So what was it about this Wakuho presidency that led that led you to seek the position?
00:01:34
Speaker
Either can go first.
00:01:37
Speaker
Well, I would say it's something that is takes time for it to become an idea because it is certainly an important position for the organization.
00:01:54
Speaker
and so over time of being involved, you start to take some, you start to get connected, right? you start to feel that there's something going on with this organization and you have care for it. And when you care for something,
00:02:12
Speaker
You want to help it continue to be successful, grow, and have it be a functioning organization for professionals in the future. And so with some support to and encouragement by others and my involvement, it just seemed like the logical next step.
00:02:35
Speaker
I think for me, it's it's interesting as you as you look back at pathways to leadership and i kind of grinded it out on several different committees and at one point realized like, oh, the things I did over on research can translate into mid-level or to communications or whatever. And it's like all these pieces I've been working on develops, like it almost kind of paints a bigger picture that if institutionalized across the board or strategies applied could vary, it could be very beneficial. And so that was, that was what it was of like, let me see if I can put all these pieces together and do something special for the membership and the association as a whole.
Unique Leadership Journeys
00:03:23
Speaker
So I always like learning people's stories and I think it's important to tell the listeners your story. So you both had differing paths to get to the presidency. How about you to tell us about your paths?
00:03:35
Speaker
So you're correct. Certainly different past, but I would like to take us back to 2016. There's a moment where Ricky and i the host here, we were working on the same campus and I just was looking at something recently where, oh, to get Ricky and I and our colleagues ready to host the 2016 RA, not SSLC at that point, RA conference in Arkansas, we were reviewing a report from the 2015 hosts. And sure enough, who wrote 2015 document to help Ricky and i
00:04:16
Speaker
It was JC Stoner, everybody. So certainly different paths to leadership, but in Sokuho, these paths do converge at some point. And so my path started out um back in 2010 by joining the programming committee and then all of a sudden my school was going to be hosting 2013 with the University of Arkansas. So I became a host co-chair.
00:04:46
Speaker
And during that time, i also ended up being appointed to the executive board as the Arkansas state director. And i ended up finishing someone else's term and then seeing on for another term.
00:05:00
Speaker
And again, I was also hosting at that point. So in 2015, I, um things happened that we're going to talk about later in the podcast, but then I became awards and recognition chair.
00:05:15
Speaker
And then i eventually became conference coordinator back on the executive board. And then the president cycle.
00:05:25
Speaker
ah Beth, was there anything particularly memorable about that report for the RA conference? I remember writing it and...
00:05:36
Speaker
I find that there are important pieces to a conference, the bones of the conference, the the non-negotiables. And then there are other parts to a conference that perhaps may be viewed as some fluff.
00:05:53
Speaker
And J.C. Stoner was very clear on what was important versus what was fluff. Or how little I cared about certain aspects. Yes.
00:06:05
Speaker
Oh, that's funny. I'd forgotten all about that. um But anyway, i find it interesting, Beth, and i think this is, and maybe we'll get dig into this a little bit more of, we always talk about pathways and how do people get going places. And I view everything you talked about, a lot of it, but a majority of it was either about hosting, state director stuff, membership, conference related.
00:06:35
Speaker
Yes, largely. and And so i almost feel and this is what i think we'll come back to, of like in your presidency is like that that was a focal point because that was experience you had growing up in the in the roles. And mine was just grinding it out on random committees here and there.
00:06:55
Speaker
ah i we hosted my first year at UTA, but it was like, i all I did was like assessment stuff or whatever. So, you know, I did the, I joined the research committee after Tanya Massey forced me to at the annual conference and then became the chair very quickly, then moved over to ah mid-level, no, communications. i don't remember which one came first.
00:07:24
Speaker
Did a year stint for communications to to as a as a project to help revitalize newsletter things, or not revitalize, but reimagine certain areas. And then but did mid-level committee for a year with Sarah McCoy.
00:07:44
Speaker
And so I took on this role of like help rebuild things or help reimagine things in several ways. you know Along the way, we did the podcast. He did ad hoc stuff for a number of committees with, you know, no actual membership on them.
00:07:59
Speaker
But it was just kind of like just grinding out what needed to be done on any given day, but not any sort of like larger picture. It was all the kind of smaller stuff on the background that is also important. But, you know.
00:08:17
Speaker
Well, and let's not forget in the grinding it out and popping up here and there, you also did win an election for secretary. Oh yeah, that's right.
00:08:29
Speaker
How could I forget? Well, and I only remember a part of that because I was time and place chair. Yes, more cuho we used to have a committee called time and place. And I went in to give my report and JC on the board that year said, we're dissolving your committee.
00:08:49
Speaker
but don't worry, we're making an executive board position. So that's how I ended up back on the board. Yeah. as And there was also another stint where I did Arkansas State Director again to finish out someone else's cycle. So I kept finding myself back on the board.
00:09:07
Speaker
But that's also like a testament to your background, skills, experience, expertise that, you know, you wouldn't get asked to fill in a role as a state director if you had sucked being state director the first time around, or if you didn't have the chops to do it, or to come back on the board. Like, I mean, I think that's a really neat like testament there of, you know, we asked to get these to do these things, but it's because there's some faith ability recognition of skills, whatever.
00:09:35
Speaker
Exactly. And the same goes for you. Yeah. And it's like people out there listening, like, you know, if you're not showing off that you got some skills like do so because we need people doing things.
00:09:49
Speaker
Well, and it's also being willing to advocate for yourself because back 2012, when i first ended up on the board, the year before going to a mid-year meeting, i needed to room with someone because i came from a school that did not have much funding. So I asked the Arkansas State Director, Dr. Angie Toddy, if I could room with her. And through being roommates, I was able to learn more about what she did on the board and what the board um was all about. And then sure enough, that's whose term I ended up finishing was hers.
00:10:33
Speaker
Well, it's interesting you mentioned time and place. All the memories are flooding back now. i would so I had almost been put on with Time and Place would have been my first original, but it didn't pan out. But I had been talking to Tanya a little bit about it, and there was that on the road. And I can't remember who it ended up being that year, but...
00:10:58
Speaker
I kind of forgot to, I mean, clearly through this conversation already, my the salient details sometimes escape me and, a you know, maybe that's a part of the leadership style too.
00:11:08
Speaker
yeah i love hearing about both of your different types of paths and how you got to where you are and how that, and we might talk about this a little bit more later about how it influenced your presidency, Beth, for you, how it's influencing yours, JC.
Election Challenges and Persistence
00:11:23
Speaker
um But, you know, we've talked, some previously on the podcast about timing and conditions needing to be right for a successful run and things like that. Not to talk about the negative, but you both ran previously for president and were unsuccessful.
00:11:41
Speaker
And, you know, that can be a great learning experience. It can be eye opening. It can be many things. So anything you want to talk about there? Hold Beth, before you start, i just have to say, Ricky, the two episodes I've recorded with you now, I think you're quoted now as saying, not to focus on the negatives, but... So I feel like that's a... it I'm seeing a pattern when I'm involved here that we're we're not going to focus on the negatives, but... But we're going to, yeah, we're going to talk about it. That's right.
00:12:13
Speaker
A potential tagline for Ricky Harris. Put that on the bottom of the stationery. Oh, and next year when he's president, do the same thing. Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:23
Speaker
So obviously people are listening. They cannot see us right now, but imagine the three of us on a type of zoom call right now. And as Ricky was asking this question about our, basically our last elections, Jason and I were both laughing. And i think that shows that you grow and you learn.
00:12:48
Speaker
And true at the time, it always seems that stars are aligning, that you want a position, you go for that position, and for some reason, you read the stars wrong. It was not the right timing. And i know JC will say the same thing.
00:13:09
Speaker
By no means were we angry or upset or frustrated wi those who instead received the positions.
00:13:20
Speaker
That is what the membership decided on at that point. And that is why we are governed the way we are It's all about how do a person reacts to that news and working through that. And i have the ah interesting opportunity to not have lost just one election as secretary in 2015, but as president the first time in 2018. so,
00:13:47
Speaker
I might be a glutton for punishment of going for a third election, but it also goes back to, do I care about Sokuho? 100%. It's my professional home. So there it is. That's why one keeps going back to helping the organization where they can help. If it's not being elected, so be it.
00:14:11
Speaker
i I think about this a lot. And it's an it's interesting thing because and mid-year or the mid-level summit a few years ago, I asked the mid-levels in the room, and I've done this several times, like how many of us were not hired as RAs the first time around? Or how many of us were alternates? And 50% of the people in the room raised their hand.
00:14:38
Speaker
And we're looking at probably some of the most influential people in our region, either at the time or about to be in terms of like mid-level power and all that. When Beth and I were at the regional summit at Akuho'ai this past summer, I asked a similar question. How many of you ran for president and didn't get it your first time around?
00:15:04
Speaker
And here, and 40% of them raised their hands. And yet there we all were. And I just think it's a neat reminder that it's okay and the growth is in the challenges. And I don't know if you ever think about this, but I think about it enough that it's like, if I had won my first bid for President Swakuho, it would have been totally, I don't know if I would have been ready for it in honesty.
00:15:28
Speaker
Like I feel like four years later or whatever it is, I'm in a much better place than I'm hopeful that it will have a much more successful than if I had won the first time around. But Ricky, your question was about time and conditions.
00:15:41
Speaker
hu And I like to think about this a a lot or used to, I don't as much anymore now that I've you know't won, but yeah, I think for me, the timing was right. Like there there was the momentum, the trajectory, the visibility and all that. Like it was all the stars were lining, but the conditions were wrong.
00:16:02
Speaker
And so that conditions was like the pandemic was hit, was running against Don Yackley, the power powerhouse, like a very like, like, you know, it just It just the conditions were right. the The timing might have been right. But and so then when it came around the next time, it was like, I don't know if I'm that visible anymore. Like I haven't been on a committee in a while. And so it was like almost a flip, like.
00:16:28
Speaker
The conditions might be right, but the timing's wrong. And it's just, you know, interesting to think about from all that. I heard once somebody said that, and this goes to the
Importance of Timing and Planning
00:16:40
Speaker
timing of it. Somebody told me that if you wanted to be the programming chair of Akuho-Ai, it was going to take you eight years.
00:16:48
Speaker
And so then you start backtracking all the things you had to do along the way to get that. It's like, well, if this is something you're interested, you got to start thinking about timing now. but not always because we've seen a number of different paths to the presidency and you know timing and conditions. it's It's just interesting to think about.
00:17:06
Speaker
I love the uniqueness of how different presidents get to the role and things like that. And I think both of you kind of touched on this, but when you care about something, you don't just give up if you lose an election or something doesn't go your way. You both persisted. You both continued to give back, whether that was in a formal role or not. And I think that speaks volumes about your leadership, about your dedication to SWACUHO and everything in general.
00:17:34
Speaker
Is there anything you want to add about about this experience?
00:17:40
Speaker
I would just like to echo that. I agree with JC that um six years ago, or i guess it would have five or six, who knows? Like that magic number of where I ran last time versus again.
00:17:57
Speaker
Exactly. Like there's a bit of hubris. Like you feel ready. You think the timing's right. But I definitely am thankful for the additional years of experience I had leading up to being successful in the election.
00:18:14
Speaker
so not going to complain there. I'm go to be thankful for every piece of that journey. Well, the difference between our two Beth, I think most obviously is ah mine was virtual. So I got to go have my little pity party by myself in the the comfort of my house. Whereas, you know, yours was much more public visibly and ah yeah.
00:18:39
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and for the listeners, got to tell you i think we as Spark Google leadership need to adjust a few things because we have an election and then we go straight into a leadership lunch where it's very common where someone running for election would be part of the leadership lunch. So then the part of the leadership lunch, so they don't have time to process.
00:19:05
Speaker
And then i remember, um, in 2018, it just so happened that I ended up sitting at the same table as Matt Grief, he's the the person I ran against it. JC's mentioned his person. And that was intriguing. Right. But that also shows like we are professionals.
00:19:26
Speaker
We support each other and we move on. So we talked a little bit about success. How does, how did, what are some indicators of success within SWACUHO? Like who determines that?
00:19:39
Speaker
Beth, especially you having finished your presidential year.
Presidency Reflections and Challenges
00:19:42
Speaker
ah Do you, Like who determines success when it comes to that year? Is it the membership? Is it leadership? Is it just you? You know, is it your reflection on it? What do you think?
00:19:53
Speaker
You can't describe it, but you know it when you see it. Is that it I do like that description, J.C. I would say for success, it's truly in the eye of the beholder, just like beauty is. It's where, you know, everyone's going to define it differently.
00:20:13
Speaker
But as I have heard several presidents before me say, they didn't burn it down. Swakuho is still functioning. so that was the level of success. It's still going.
00:20:25
Speaker
So I would say for that definition of success, well, yeah, of course I was successful. um Other success indicators sometimes are outside of your control.
00:20:38
Speaker
i could say no one from Swakuho leadership resign during my time. But when they do, is that a bad thing? That means something else has perhaps gone well for them personally professionally. So you can't use that as a fair indicator of success or was legislation figured out or passed or did we have record numbers at our conferences?
00:21:06
Speaker
So it truly is tricky to say what is the definition of success success. So each president runs on a platform to make themselves sound strategic and future thinking on that stage. They are saying all sorts of great things for their election speech and as well as their candidate statement.
00:21:28
Speaker
And then they proceed a year later to again, take that gavel and say great things. but then the next 12 months are a whirlwind of learning, understanding, managing, and so what ended up saying from the conference in 2025 was that ah the the d word we love could not would not be touched yet. I spent much of my presidency
00:22:05
Speaker
adjusting, listening, doing more adjusting, working with the leadership to um change out some language in our documents and change out some language in some of our committees.
00:22:21
Speaker
And so that was unexpected and also took some time and we couldn't have not done what we did. So it's all about what takes precedence and What needs to happen for me to say, did I have a successful year?
00:22:41
Speaker
In aspects, sure. it didn't burn down, Beth. Exactly, didn't burn it down. But are there things I wish I would have accomplished? Oh, yes, 100%.
00:22:56
Speaker
I was, and again, we're two months into mine, I'm It goes fast already, but I told the, we did a committee camp a few weeks ago and i said that your average participant or member of SWACUHO judges the success of the association by their experience at the conference.
00:23:26
Speaker
Just because that's all they know, generally that's all they know, that's all they see. And by my challenge to the committee chairs and the exec board was we can do more the other 362 days of the year to support our membership.
00:23:43
Speaker
And I don't know what success necessarily looks like. I certainly always talk about small scale things like
00:23:52
Speaker
I'll know it when I see it, but also i recognize it. And Beth and I have spent a lot of time talking about transitions and how do you manage an association where your leadership fundamentally and radically changes every single year?
00:24:08
Speaker
And how do you not spend the first six months building back or building with that group to be successful? And how do you make the handoff to the next, like, while still capitalizing on your time? And I forgot where I was going with that.
00:24:26
Speaker
Oh, but you just, if I can put some things in place that are generally beneficial to the membership, whether it's a schedule that's known in advance of the next year, or this little thing was successful and it's going to persist next year.
00:24:44
Speaker
Like, you know, let's just use as an example, this this would be too much, but for the sake of example, like, you know, if I wanted to do, i keep talking about the blog, 52 blog posts in a calendar year, one um one a week all year, that would certainly be successful in my mind.
00:25:09
Speaker
But also since we did like maybe five last year, If we did one every other week, I'd still consider that successful. If we did 10 in the year, that would be successful.
00:25:21
Speaker
If we figured out the system that was successful to making it happen that, Ricky, you can come along and capitalize and build upon if it's still deemed valuable at that point. Like sometimes we build the things that aren't flashy, but it's the bones that help others be successful later on. And I would call that success.
00:25:38
Speaker
Like. and JC, I would say, what is it, April? Basically when you hit January next year and you're working on your executive summary for the business meeting, you will be amazed at how much you have to report on. And that will show the success of the organization.
00:26:00
Speaker
I found it actually kind of fun um looking for the 12 emails from Sarah McCoy, our secretary,
00:26:11
Speaker
to quick look through the minutes to be like, okay, did I catch everything? And so much goodness will happen this year because it's not only about the president, it's about everybody pushing for Sakuho to grow and be what it promises to be.
00:26:32
Speaker
well and to your point, Beth, like it really isn't, it isn't going to be my success. It's like if I have nothing credit to my name, but the association or the members do all these things.
00:26:45
Speaker
Perfect. Like. It's all about the people doing the things and, you know, I'll take credit if I can give everybody else credit, you know? Yeah.
00:26:57
Speaker
Well, not to overshare, but Beth, I remember at one point last year you making a comment, you feel like, you know, what am I actually achieving? You know, I feel like I'm just putting out some fires. And JC, we've had the conversation so far.
00:27:11
Speaker
You know, I said, I feel like I'm not president electing enough. It's the time after the conference, we're wrapping that up and things are a little bit slow, but things are still happening. You know, you're leading initiatives, whether it's directly or indirectly by your vision, things are still happening. And Beth, and you you came to that, you just mentioned that when you're getting this executive summary ready, you realize, wow,
00:27:35
Speaker
There was a lot done. So you might not notice in the moment when you're just kind of just trucking along. And think that's point I've talked about this a lot with people. It's like, especially those of the group, like Manor Bones and Residence Life. It's like, we all want to do the huge program, the sexy program that's like everybody's talking about.
00:27:56
Speaker
But I've, in my time in ops and maintenance and now admin, it's like, doing one thing for one person helps one person. But when you look at process, it helps everybody.
00:28:09
Speaker
And that's like, I think what's so valuable is like all the boring quote unquote, boring stuff happening in the background is probably the most important stuff because it allows the freedom and the ability to support all the big glamorous things that happen regardless of who's doing it. And I think that's a an important piece of like, we sometimes forget, and I think we do a disservice to our young professionals about thinking it's all, the boring stuff is really important.
00:28:40
Speaker
And being really good at the boring stuff makes positions you to be in a place where you can do the really cool stuff.
00:28:49
Speaker
Because I don't really want to do any of the really cool stuff, but I want to let other people do that so instead. that's fine But i also think I will, I will add that. And I shared, I shared this with Beth is that after Beth gave me the gavel at a small handful of past presidents come up and say, you know, the,
00:29:13
Speaker
obligatory, like congratulations, but then every one of them said, I hope you get to i hope you do more than I did. And I think that's just a trait of people who find themselves in these positions or leaders across our region that I think we all leave something on the table.
00:29:31
Speaker
That's a part of what it is. And we're all never, even in our jobs, like we're never going to get it all done. And that's okay. But that doesn't mean you didn't do something and you didn't didn't accomplish anything.
00:29:46
Speaker
Thank you. Well, and even going from president-elect to president, there are a couple of things um with the organization, a handbook. I didn't get done. And I said, hey, cha c you can figure out the incon inconsistent capitalization issue in this hundred plus page document if you want to.
00:30:09
Speaker
And don't worry, Beth, I copy pasted that and just said, hey, Ricky, you can find the inconsistent capitalizations.
00:30:20
Speaker
So it's a, I think, a fun coincidence since I've started with the podcast and hosting and things. It just so happens I did get elected president-elect, so we have the cycle. But also there's a pattern here now, Ricky. Does every future president have to be on the podcast or a podcast host?
00:30:37
Speaker
It's really what's the and Sorry, interrupted. Yeah, we'll see. So i'm too I'm only two months in about, and I don't know, a little bit less. But um y'all have, Beth, you're in the third year of the cycle. So for those listeners who might not know that when you get elected to the presidential cycle, you spend a year as president-elect, a year as president, and a year as the immediate past president. So let's talk a little bit about how that works functionally.
00:31:08
Speaker
It's because I'm learning it to be, you know, it can be a little messy at times, especially with our email account. Well, I think one of the things we always have to keep at our forefront is the president is the president. So everything stops and ends with the president. So like for me becoming past president, I have to remember I'm not in charge anymore.
00:31:30
Speaker
I need to yield to GC. And I've actually used that language. Like i yield to you. I'm trying to not step on your toes. So I'm very well, that amount the amount of like bending over backwards you to like it make me realize that you're going out of your way. I think it's really, ah really sweet.
00:31:51
Speaker
Thank you. And I'm sure I'll do the same for Ricky. But I would say the hardest position was president elect because in the handbook, it's a pretty short description for the position end If you have a strong president before you, you kind of just might twiddle your thumbs sometimes and figure out like, where can i get like help?
00:32:18
Speaker
So I don't envy you, Ricky.
00:32:24
Speaker
And that's key How can you help? You know, you're not the decision maker yet. um Yeah, I feel like I printed that section of the handbook. It sits on my desk and i'm I'm sitting here like, okay, it starts in, most of it starts in June.
00:32:42
Speaker
i would add, that or I would do a strong co-assign to the hardest. but I haven't been past president yet. and I've only been president for two months now, but ah you don't realize the challenges of president-elect until you're like, well, I just got elected. That was super exciting. And now I'm waiting a year to essentially enact my platform without otherwise I'd be stepping on best toes. And I did a lot of things. It's like I've revised so many handbooks in my career and I feel like i'm pretty good at it. Like I'm, I'm over it.
00:33:18
Speaker
Like this is not what I was, like I did not run on platform of like a handbook updates. No, we did it and it's fine. But that's the challenge is because you got to be respectful to the person sitting in the chair, but you're also patiently waiting.
00:33:37
Speaker
And thankfully, i feel like Beth and I got along real real well. And ah this will come as a shock to nobody, but our styles are completely differently. But in terms of like being able to support or I feel like we did that.
00:33:53
Speaker
I was like, I'm ready to do my thing, Beth. like But I didn't want to step on her toes or like dis distract from her agenda and her platform. So then it was like, well, let me start kind of playing in the background with some of the pieces on the chessboard to prep them for rising up or position people to you know initiatives and all that.
00:34:16
Speaker
But then it felt like I was like, but these resources should really be just totally used for Beth's agenda. You know, I've had my time on the board and things like that, and I've learned a lot about SWACUHO, but I also see this position right now as president-elect is really just continuing to learn, learn, learn as much as I can and and just absorb it all for a year to be able to to take over, to take that role as president, to in a sense enact what I want to enact while not burning it down.
00:34:49
Speaker
So that's really I'm trying to focus on it. Oh yeah, absolutely. learned a ton watching Beth and would not have provided I am successful this year, would not have achieved any of that success having not watched Beth and been on that side. But it's, I mean, it's really wild if you think about it, because if you, I mean, we'll talk very sensationally about like, say some radical platform that I ran on.
00:35:20
Speaker
and completely differently and opposite than Beth's platform. Like that's like, oh we're gonna do we're going to do round tables every month, five times a month or something like that. And but pulls on and i run on the platform of we're never doing round tables ever again.
00:35:37
Speaker
And the crowd goes wild. Beth's now got a year to do all these round tables, which I'm then immediately going to dismantle.
00:35:46
Speaker
It's just, I mean, it's... It's very wild to think about. Well, and if someone really wanted to ah wreak havoc or a truly unique agenda, our constitution bylaws do not dictate what committees we're supposed to have, chairs versus co-chairs. So someone could add 20, abolish 20,
00:36:14
Speaker
The strategic plan, again, not a requirement of any way, shape or form. So they could work through that. So there's certainly flexibility for the president, but that's also why Suankuho back in the day, made the president role was threefold, not just one.
00:36:38
Speaker
So that basically iron can sharpen iron to make each other better. And what I do appreciate is that with the president electoral going back to that, even though there's not much written in the handbook, it is that role for the president to utilize, you know, just like any good vice president, if the president is sick or cannot attend, it goes to the president elect, not the past president.
00:37:09
Speaker
And in fact, if you look at the succession, It goes president, president-elect, then secretary. And JC was wonderful with picking up things I delegated to him.
00:37:21
Speaker
I asked him to look into continuing education credits that were being offered. We received an email to the president inbox regarding um representing student housing needs to the Texas state legislature. And so JC went to Texas, to Austin,
00:37:41
Speaker
And y'all can read about that in the blog from last May and June. And there were some other projects that JC was able to take on and president-elect could also be looking at the future, like as they become president, who's going to be in leadership?
00:38:01
Speaker
Because during the fall, the president-elect leads the um nominations process for chairs and an appointed positions. So for those chairs and appointed positions, you will become busy. Yeah. JC, would you say you were busy with that? very I mean, I spent probably most of my time working or planning or position like, you know, yes.
00:38:30
Speaker
So. Beth, did you ever think about running for a second term back to back? I never considered that. So then you would be president and president-elect.
00:38:45
Speaker
And then the following year you would be past president and president.
00:38:54
Speaker
That's wild. There was somebody. Julie. In our handbook. History book. Julie. Julie. Julie. Julie history book so did julie wixton was a Two years in the early 90s, I think.
00:39:09
Speaker
There you go. Yeah.
00:39:13
Speaker
Wow. It's like, oh boy, if I had two years, boy, I bet ah yeah we could really make something happen in two years, I would hope.
00:39:21
Speaker
Let's focus in a little bit more on each of you one at a time. So first, Beth, your turn. going to go through, ask you some questions. JC can grill you too if he has more questions. but um So we've touched on some of these questions, but just start out a little bit. When you first ran for president-elect years ago, what was your platform? my platform actually was to take a look at the strategic plan to figure out where it needed better definition, such as Um, it had lots of good words. We had spent lots of time on it. There were focus groups. Um, and it took a few years to get it going just because of COVID. And it was the first strategic plan for our organization. So my goal was to basically look at it, make sure it's still correct, but also add some, some parameters to it. Like how long are we going to work on this? Or how long are we going to work on that? How do we know we have achieved something? And so that's where i really wanted to focus. And I found that um sometimes I spend a bit too much time working on all the other details of the position and other needs where um the strategic plan, knowing that it needed some bigger picture focus, just was not getting that attention. And we did great things with it at both the mid-year meeting and the annual conference.
00:40:49
Speaker
However, I wish we could have done a few more touch points on it throughout the year. um One of the things i did run on as well was strengthening our membership and investing into our members a bit. And so I think it adds up to like four years I was state director. So I really wanted to help our state directors grow in their positions to help grow our membership and um particularly our membership numbers since COVID have not actually recovered yet. And so I would love to get our membership a little higher, um small schools, large schools, everything in between. so as past president, I still have that opportunity to use my expertise to work with our state directors
00:41:50
Speaker
and work on continuing to help get that membership built back up. And I have a wonderful avenue to do that with our Pathways Scholarship. That is something that started when I was president-elect and then JC helped bring it home with creating Pathways
Collaborative Efforts and Adjustments
00:42:11
Speaker
Scholarship. And Ricky, you were the one of the people on the committee getting that figured out as well. So through the work of y'all, and an amazing anonymous donor. We now have these Pathways scholarships for registration for every single one of our conferences. And these scholarships are specifically for our members from smaller institutions that may not have the funds they need. So I'm just tickled that we have those now and that I'm able as past president to share that, encourage membership through that and just make it happen. so
00:42:48
Speaker
yeah, some things that weren't quite accomplished, but if you look at it with a certain glance, some of it was accomplished. For sure. And I'm really, really excited about that Pathway Scholarship. I think it's a ah great new resource we have and hopefully we can expand upon it in the future.
00:43:06
Speaker
So ah did you have to deal with some stuff that wasn't on your radar that kind of just fucked up? So as a higher education organization in the United States, we want to make sure that all of our members can participate and based on the requirements of their institution. And so we just needed to adjust some language in some of our practices to ensure that we were still aligned to where are all of our members could feel free to be associated with SWACUHO. And so
00:43:46
Speaker
That was not my radar, but there it was front and center pretty quickly and we are stronger for it. So a year goes by pretty fast, kind of flies by. We talked about, we're already almost two months from the 60th anniversary conference.
00:44:03
Speaker
Is there anything you left on the table that you wish you had gotten to?
00:44:09
Speaker
No, because I still feel that there's a way to achieve goals because they're not just Beth's goals.
00:44:20
Speaker
Others have the same goal of touching base with our membership and increasing our membership so others can benefit from Swakuho. So my goals are not radical. It's just what it makes sense for the region and for Swakuho and for all the housing professionals across our region.
00:44:40
Speaker
So what is your experience been so far with your first couple of months of of not being president? You talked about, you know, you're not the decision maker now. How's it feeling? i am thankful that we are organized the way we are so that the past president is still there. Sometimes someone may view the past president as a ah lame duck or why are they still hanging on?
00:45:07
Speaker
But it allows that. voice where it says, I'm still available. If some advice is needed, maybe people who don't need the advice, but they might still get it. And think the past president also, they're organized to be the liaison to our Akuaai Foundation Rep, as well as our Senior Housing Officer Liaison. And I think that dovetails very well with the past president And the past president also has mentioned, they manage all of our scholarships. And I think that also dovetails well. And so I love being a resource and helper. so this certainly fits me as well as I felt precedent fit me, but I think this fits me as well. And what I find is that I just need to make sure that Like all of us, we should not play the comparison game.
00:46:11
Speaker
We each have our own reasons we ran for president, our own platforms, our own styles. And so I need to remember that when I first became president, I went on a two-week cruise to the Caribbean.
00:46:26
Speaker
In JC's first two weeks of being president, he sent unbelievable amount of emails. Everybody approaches it different.
00:46:38
Speaker
Beth, I will share, I do feel like I've gotten a couple emails from you that were, to your to your point, hu quote unquote, helpful, but I felt when were reading them, it was like, I know you well enough not to trust you to know this or remember this. So I'm just going to suggest it as a helpful
00:47:05
Speaker
wisdom from the, it Listen from afar, even though I know you forgot. Yes, yes, exactly. Or or something i you probably don't care that much about, but probably should.
00:47:17
Speaker
Well, that's where i don't want to see you fail, JC. It's as simple as that. Thank you. I said from the stage that know I respected you from afar over the years we've been in Swakuho, but in the past year getting to know you, you truly have become
Friendship and Support
00:47:32
Speaker
a friend. yeah Both of you are my friends. Yeah.
00:47:36
Speaker
Therefore I don't want get either of you to fail. yeah it's like, so I go with my home. You both are my home. So don't mess it up. Don't burn it down No pressure. had No pressure.
00:47:50
Speaker
Well, Ricky, just know that if I mess it all up, you're going to get to come in and clean up all the mess and be the hero. So.
00:47:58
Speaker
Y'all get to burn it down. going to burn it down. Ricky, you can rebuild. All right, JC, let's swap over to you for a little bit. So to start out, talk a little bit about your platform, maybe for those who either were still eating their dinner or weren't there. And then while you're talking about that, did it change any between last year when you gave your election speech and then when you gave your take the gavel speech?
00:48:26
Speaker
Yeah, sure.
Small Initiatives for Impact
00:48:27
Speaker
Those of you who know me or have interacted with me or worked with me have probably heard me say, like, let's think smaller. And i i I did a lot of thinking over the years and in my positions and how do we build habits? And I used to I've done a lot of reading on like habit forming and, you know,
00:48:49
Speaker
was reading James Clear's blog long before Atomic Habits. But it's always, you know, how do you make it simple? How do you make it easy and how do you make it obvious? And like involvement pathways have to be obvious in some ways.
00:49:04
Speaker
But if we can make them easy to build habits, you don't just show up one morning having done nothing and then you're like, great, I'm gonna plan the annual conference tomorrow. Like you backtrack that to, oh, well, I also,
00:49:21
Speaker
I plan the r RA conference, which is actually of same scope, just a different duration. RA conference sometimes, or sorry, SSLC now, sometimes has more people at it than the annual conference, but it's basically you know ah one day or a day and a half. um So then you what was the thing that positioned people there to do that? And then you're a committee chair, and or back it all started with some little task.
00:49:51
Speaker
You volunteered for something. And actually we asked this at committee camp of all the committee chairs and exec boards, what was your first SWACUO related action you took that wasn't attending a conference?
00:50:02
Speaker
And I think close to 50% of the people started as a program moderator at annual conference. That was the first volunteer thing they did and stepped up and raised their hand and said, I can do something.
00:50:14
Speaker
And I think that's really neat when you look at all the different pathways that people have. And I mean, as's part of the strategic plan. Maybe that's why it is because I've on the board when that strategic plan was developed. that The pathways always stuck with me.
00:50:26
Speaker
That, you know, some people started as program moderators. Some people just had never done anything before. You know, there's all these things. and But really the point was, how do we make every committee do something so small that it's impossible to fail at or impossible not to do?
00:50:42
Speaker
Or if you don't do it, it's just... completely your fault. like So looking at small things to build habits, to hopefully create pathways, but also if we can make those small things generate an output or a deliverable for membership that can help with their growth, all the better.
00:51:00
Speaker
And these are things that I've been doing and all the committees I'd named before in a variety of ways. And some of them sometimes they work, sometimes they didn't. But it if we could coalesce it all together to get all these pieces of the puzzle to fit together at just the right time, wouldn't that be something special?
00:51:17
Speaker
So I ran on doing nothing big but a whole bunch of small things. And it's funny, I don't think of it that my philosophy has changed and I'm not really a personality that changes very easily.
00:51:32
Speaker
But it's funny because there's been two times that we've met twice as an executive board. And on each of those meetings, there was a comment that said, are we at all concerned this is we're gonna get too much? Or are we concerned about it's gonna be too successful?
00:51:48
Speaker
Or something like that. I'm like, we're barely out of the gates, like nothing's happened. But if that's our problem, I'm okay with that. We'll figure out a way to be too successful, but how about we just focus on the nuts and the bolts of getting the system in place to hopefully maybe generate success of that level. And Ricky, if if history is any experience, I can't imagine anything I'm doing is going to be so successful we won't be able to handle it.
00:52:17
Speaker
So that'll be your problem that will, if the trajectory continues on anything, that maybe you can deal with that problem and I'll advise you from but from behind on But your question was about, has it changed? And I don't think it's changed, but I think the deliverables have changed in the sense of like, what's reasonable, what's potentially accomplishable.
00:52:43
Speaker
I had these dreams. i I've recorded Swakuo presentation I did four or five years ago, whenever the pandemic started. was like, here's an example.
00:52:54
Speaker
We should be doing this. We should be recording these. It's super easy. And as easy as it is, it's not that easy if you've never done it. It's not hard, but it's not easy. And it takes time, energy, effort. People are worried, not whatever. It's like, so I had this big goal that we get all these recordings made, but that's a lot of work. A lot of like new, it's a new thing for a lot of people.
00:53:16
Speaker
And that's where the barrier is. But then it sort of shifted of like, well, why don't we just get people who have already made programs to like record them as ah like a best of series? And then we record those and put those on the YouTube channel so people can watch anytime. It's like, it's the same idea, but a different way of delivering on it.
00:53:37
Speaker
So I think that's more of like the the philosophy hasn't changed, the goals haven't changed, but maybe the way of delivering on or fully realizing that potential may be different. It's not that hard to schedule a virtual meeting where people come together.
00:53:53
Speaker
Like I'm thinking of some of the facilities ones and we always talk about we need more facilities programs. Like if you did a facilities program and you know how to run, like talk to program committee. They will schedule the meeting. Just come and present it, record it. We'll put it on YouTube. Like it it sounds so simple.
00:54:07
Speaker
And I know it's really not, but but doesn't have to be the top five. Like all the middle of the pack programs that were really great. I'd love to see all of them.
00:54:19
Speaker
I'd love to see all 68 programs on the YouTube channel by the end. But then you also get, it's like, oh, are we doing too much? Like to the original point. Now they're making their argument for them.
00:54:33
Speaker
So first couple months on the job, have you started to see anything arise that you didn't expect or plan for? I think it's, ah it's always like a new staff, a new supervisor.
00:54:47
Speaker
a new, I mean, it's all, this is all just transferable stuff. It's like, we all deal with this stuff. Like, you know, you got a new RA staff, you got a new student inspector staff, you got a new housekeeping supervisor. There's like this moment where the new people are like, well, I'm new here.
00:55:05
Speaker
Are they fully realizing their voice immediately? are they waiting to weigh out the relationships and the dynamics? Like, um, I mean, I think that's what it is. It's like, I just just want people... You were appointed or elected for a reason.
00:55:23
Speaker
let's Let's hear voices, let's make decisions, let's be directive. We were put in these positions for a reason and our membership trusts us to get things done, so let's go.
00:55:36
Speaker
But yeah, other than that, it's like the minutia. I mean, I knew about it because I was watching the email account with Beth and... Never ends. It's just,
00:55:49
Speaker
seriously. Like, it's such a fascinating, like operational strategy that we employ here. It's like, I mean, it really makes no sense other than the fact that there's, other if there's some level of continuity between, because otherwise like Ricky, you're gonna have three different Swakuho email ah accounts over the next three years.
00:56:12
Speaker
And then all of a sudden the people you were talking about are talking to stuff about in January or emailing me ah or Beth in February. Now they're emailing me and not realizing it. And I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. Let me copy Beth in on this message. And now they're replying all to both of us.
00:56:27
Speaker
And then eventually Beth moves into past present. Now we're like, oh, sorry, beth Beth's got the past president's whyuho email. So copy is all in again. And now it's the same thing it's got. It's just wild. Well, I also feel like it's past present since I am no longer having the emails come directly to me that I'm just out here floating. Oh, there's something happening.
00:56:48
Speaker
Well, that's the funniest thing, Beth, is I was telling Ricky this, I think it was literally right before the conference
Communication Challenges
00:56:56
Speaker
and you and I finally had a conversation about the email and management.
00:57:02
Speaker
And she's like, are you are you reading any of these? That's it. Are you reading any of these? Or because they're all unread. And I didn't know that Beth was having them forwarded to her, to another email.
00:57:17
Speaker
And so- So did think I was slacking off? No, no, no, I just, I thought you were marking unread, I didn't know if you'd read them. And so I would read them and then I'd mark them unread and then sometimes they'd get moved around and whatever, but it was like I think that it's just bananas.
00:57:38
Speaker
Well, and that's where, yeah I deleted more than 800 emails from the inbox before I passed it on. Right. And that's when, that's like, well, if you've read it, just delete it or file it or do whatever you want with it. And I was like, okay.
00:57:56
Speaker
But I still felt like, then I was like, yeah, done and gone. Yeah. It's a, This is a good opportunity to mention from a few years ago when JC was the host of the podcast, we had an email management episode, which is funny. It's funny enough. It's funny enough the dynamics when you're managing your own email and how everyone differs. Now, just imagine.
00:58:17
Speaker
Yeah. So all you aspiring future presidents of Swakuo, I can't underscore enough the importance of have that initial dialogue on how you're going to manage with the president-elect.
00:58:32
Speaker
And if there's not a president-elect email, which is fine, don't forget to include them. Yeah. All right. All
00:58:46
Speaker
right. Well, were there any final thoughts from either of you about your experience as Swakuho president?
00:58:55
Speaker
So going back to the question about Do you feel you had a successful presidency? Were your goals achieved? Or what is the legacy you left with the organization?
00:59:06
Speaker
It's interesting because as we talked about the president year, things crop up, goals change because from when you first gave your election speech versus when you take the gavel, it's times change, months have gone by. And so it's instead just looking at just successful moments overall. And if you look at the time that perhaps I've been involved, JC, you, Ricky, Ricky, during your time as treasurer, we switched our bank accounts. We'd been with Wells Fargo forever. And while you were treasurer, we switched our bank account. That was a big deal. That's a legacy. JC, you, um, created the Swakuho podcast that we are now,
00:59:56
Speaker
on. And did you also create the blog? Yeah. There it is. and when I was awards and recognition chair, my committee that year, we created the mid-level award and the facilities award. So there's always going to be moments where you can look back and be proud of the work that was done, but also recognizing at the same time, it was done when you were surrounded with other people. Yeah.
01:00:26
Speaker
So use the talents around you. it's It's interesting. You bring up the blog and the podcast. It's like, literally, i can track a piece of my platform or my philosophy to every single position I've held in Zwa Kuho or a little piece or a nugget from that.
01:00:45
Speaker
And maybe it's like, a vengeance tour to revitalize all the things I built that didn't persist the podcast and the things that dropped. And it's like, we're just going to do all the things that I started. And, um, but that's the growth piece you see is like, you can, I can literally point the picture to mid-level committee communications committee, ad hoc roles, um,
01:01:10
Speaker
research that it's like they're all in there and you think about if i had taken any other path like what what would have been like because we're all just like a collection of all the experiences we've ever had it's it's it's fascinating to think about bet do you ever think about and i don't know i was on the board when dude though it was like i made the comment it's like we have different styles which should surprise nobody but um do you ever think about like if the styles are so dramatically different, like almost like a whiplash of the board itself and how it operates, or is that something people in the future need to be mindful of?
01:01:52
Speaker
I think a piece of that can be managed through when the president elect is working to add in leadership, it's those appointed positions. So it's,
01:02:07
Speaker
looking at, okay, who on the board's returning, who is coming in who might be coming in and how do we build that cohesive team? Just like when you have an RD who has returning RAs and then new RAs coming in just because like you have a hall council leader or an RHA leader who's done great things in the hall, that doesn't mean they're the best fit for that RA team in that hall.
01:02:36
Speaker
So I think we have to remember that when membership is electing someone in a position that you have to respect the membership and remember that variety is the spice of life. yeah But you all still have to be driving toward that same purpose.
01:02:57
Speaker
And personalities can be different, but you still have to align at some point. Yeah. Because I think about the university president many several years ago, it was like the average lifespan of a university or a tenure at a president was like seven or eight years.
01:03:14
Speaker
Someone told me the other day it's down to like less than three And then you wonder why it feels like sometimes we never get anything done is because we're always adapting to the new leadership or they've got their own, they're coming in with new things. And then, so in some ways this is a toned down version, but in other ways it's like the same thing on steroids where it's every year now potentially, but again, a lot less dramatic in the sense of, don't know, something buried in there.
01:03:47
Speaker
I would say whiplash is not healthy for an organization. and I think that's another thing where it's okay if there's not radical things happening each year. yeah It's as your platform says, incremental changes. yeah That's where it's healthy.
01:04:05
Speaker
It's almost like you need a stabilizing year every so often. where it's like all right this year we're just going look at the handbook and the operating procedures and we're not going to do anything really uh bright and shiny well that's true because i thought my would be a stabilizing year because the year before um dr delton gordon he worked with rakeve to update and change out the bank account as an organization we switched our list serves as an organization we also switched our website hosting those are some
01:04:38
Speaker
healthy changes for a small association. yeah So I thought that was would be my year stabilizing those things. Oh, no let's let's go. So hang on, JC.
01:04:53
Speaker
JC, who would you say was the most influential person in um encouraging you to be involved in Sopakuho and perhaps even further down the road, be involved in leadership? Like who Was your guiding light?
01:05:10
Speaker
I don't know said guiding light. I will tell you that ah mentioned earlier, we my first committee was research.
01:05:24
Speaker
And I remember, and will always, in I was literally trying to skip the committee fairs, the committee fair.
01:05:40
Speaker
and ran into Tonya Massey in the hallway, who I revealed my scheme to about going to the hotel bar to hang out with some friends.
01:05:52
Speaker
And she forcibly grabbed me and drug me to the research and told the committee chair that don't let me leave until I've got some sort of assignment. And I mean, I always think about that forced moment that then created this love affair in a sense.
01:06:08
Speaker
but uh i think a lot of it is really the mid-levels and the mid-level i was i went to mid-level several times some of my closest friends in the region like we're all mid-levels at the same time and i think about the maggie guzman's and the katie pelton's that uh
01:06:32
Speaker
very influential and role models to me still in terms of like getting stuff done, being good people, fun to be around, but never and undying, wavering or unwavering
Mentorship and Early Influences
01:06:46
Speaker
care and stuff. And so I think that that mid-level collection was a, I think it's still, today but is it a, at the time was a very formidable time in my, my career in life and involvement.
01:06:59
Speaker
That's wonderful. How about you? Oh, well, being involved for 17 years, it's, it certainly has ebbed and flowed from the beginning to now, but, you know, I mentioned earlier about Dr. Angie Toddy, she was at ASU BB and then pretty quickly in there, um, Joellen Newman Tipton from Sam Houston, she, um won the presidency. And so we ended up being on the board at the same time. And I just love that woman. She was just very wonderful in um helping me feel that I had a place at the board, even though I was a very young professional and encouraging me to run. And then even after not winning the first election, encouraging me in other facets and always just being very,
01:07:57
Speaker
intentional with checking in on me. So shout out to Joellen for sure. and then more recently, Delton, Ricky seeing his passion for things because spoiler alert, Ricky and i met at Esaukouho.
01:08:16
Speaker
I think it was 2015. Yes, it was 2015. Again, I lost an election. yeah And Ricky approached me in the hallway, but I say that's the first time we met, but the first time that it's probably reality was a different time, but seeing Ricky's passion for Swakuho, just fantastic. And here we are 11 years later and he's now president elect. So it's just throughout time, just so many great people, so many great connections.
01:08:49
Speaker
It's interesting when we talk about the people large and influence large and small ways. And then thinking like, are we doing that?
01:09:00
Speaker
Are we doing to others what others have done to us? Because i've english I don't, particular I don't find myself particularly remarkable or influential, like any sort of like that way.
Encouraging Leadership
01:09:12
Speaker
But the other day I was on a text chain with a couple of people who were on committee chairs and I just made some offhand comment about like, well, uh, won't that be neat when the two of you are on exec board here in the near future? You know, something something like that.
01:09:27
Speaker
Yeah. And I think about like, is that a powerful moment for the, like, is that like a Tanya Massey moment to me or Joel Allen to you checking in along the way? Or was that a seed planted? I don't know, but I don't know. It's kind of interesting think like the wheel weaves is the wheel wills and how do these things happen? And sometimes and sometimes you won't you won't know that impact for a while it's like students that come back 10 15 20 years later and you're like do you remember this conversation we had in your office and you setting you're sitting here thinking no i i don't remember this but they're like you know that really changed my direction this conduct meeting or this just conversation we had really changed the direction for me and and now i'm doing these amazing things and you were a big impact it's you know sometimes even
01:10:18
Speaker
from both sides, they don't recognize it in the moment they don't recognize it for a while.
Long-term Leadership Impact
01:10:22
Speaker
Yeah, and that's so true. Like we all, we'd never get the validation of our efforts so frequently, especially in conduct. And I love that story because there was once, there was probably the whole meaningful moment in conduct history for me is that I made some,
01:10:37
Speaker
dude who got caught underage drinking i made him do a reese like find out what would happen if you had gotten a minor in possession from pd and you know some developmental paper and you know there's the argument out there is like developmental papers punish two people the person has to write it the person has to read it but uh he went out he's like oh i would have been charged 500 i would have had to get a job i couldn't do this blah blah blah all these things and Two years later, when he was a senior graduating, ran into it. He was like, I want you to know, I think about that paper you made me write all the time. Every time I go to a party and I see someone underage drinking, I go up to him and like, you know what could happen to you if you get caught?
01:11:16
Speaker
And it was like so validating. Like, okay, yes, I made a difference. Beautiful. That's great.
01:11:28
Speaker
I also want to say, as again, self-promotion of Make Success Happen this year, is that this podcast idea was generated on a previous podcast idea through just some ad hoc conversation that is on recording and now it's happening. So when we say, or Ricky says, like, if anyone wants to talk about something or would that be a great idea, we're listening.
01:11:56
Speaker
Well, Beth and JC, thank you for joining me today and for a great conversation about leadership and your service to our association. And on behalf of the entire membership, thank you both for your dedication to SWACUHO.
01:12:08
Speaker
To our listeners, thank you for tuning in. Be sure to check out previous episodes and more at SWACUHO.org. That's all we've got for you today. Keep up the great work out there and may your week be free of 2 a.m. m emergency calls.
01:12:21
Speaker
I'm Ricky Harris. And with that, I say to you, good day.