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Milly Young: Resilience, Adventure, and the Long Way Around Mont Blanc (PTL)
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In this Trail Running Podcast, James sits down with Milly Young as she reflects on an adventurous journey—from overcoming significant health setbacks to discovering climbing and trail running in Chamonix.
We cover her epic experience coming 3rd in the 2024 PTL alongside her brother, balancing structured training with the freedom of mountain life, and the lessons in resilience and adventure that define her approach to trail running and climbing.
***Don’t forget, use code PPP at Bix’s website for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits! Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
Follow Milly Young: Instagram | Strava
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Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter
License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
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Transcript
Introduction to Pete Pursuits with Millie Young
00:00:15
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Pete Pursuits podcast. My name is James Sieber and today we sit down with Millie Young. Millie is originally from WA, now living over in Chamonix and she takes us through a really interesting history that's got her to the point of finishing on the podium at PTL, one of the UTMB distance races last year with her brother.
00:00:36
Speaker
From growing up on a farm through clock climbing into running, her history is diverse and it is a story of resilience and following your passions and your interests that really speaks to I think what a lot of us in trail running are pursuing it for.
00:00:51
Speaker
This conversation really goes deep onto a lot of things in Millie's history that takes her to where she is right now, which I think a lot of you will find really interesting and resonate with. And with that,
Millie's Background and Transition to Running
00:01:00
Speaker
let's get to the episode with Millie Young.
00:01:03
Speaker
Millie, welcome to the podcast. How are you going today? Yeah, great. Thanks, James. How are you? Yeah, I'm doing very, very well. It's kind of, it's the first time I've done a completely different time zone. So you're obviously over in France at the moment and I'm here. So yeah, I can see a bit of natural light coming through for you and I've just got pitch black.
00:01:20
Speaker
It's quite strange. Indeed. Yeah, it's 10.30 ish in the morning. So yeah, thanks for I'm giving up your evening to have a chat. I appreciate you. Happy to do it.
00:01:31
Speaker
Not exactly yeah like it's hard work to come and talk to people like yourself. It's a nice way to spend my evening. ah So I wanted to start off with a little bit of a background to yourself for people that are listening that may maybe have heard of you, maybe not.
00:01:48
Speaker
mostly because you're your results are a little bit untraditional in the sense that they're FKTs or they're more of the adventure race, PTL, not so much of the the standard over here, UTA, COSI, Buffalo kind of scene. So just give us a bit of a background to who you are and kind of take us through to when you started running.
Health Challenges and Return to Activity
00:02:10
Speaker
Yeah, sure. So um I, Millie, I grew up in ah a small rural town in WA on a sheep farm.
00:02:22
Speaker
um Spent a lot of my childhood, you know, outdoors, um building cubbies, like chasing ant trails, that kind of thing.
00:02:32
Speaker
And then I kind of came to running like later in life, When I was around 30, first of all, yeah, I was like pretty sporty growing up, like played a lot of sport, um kind of like everything and anything, um but particularly took to field hockey and played that um at quite a high level, like until I was around 16, 17. And then I kind of went away from sports for a while because I got,
00:03:09
Speaker
Well, actually, when I was like 10 years old, I got viral encephalitis, which is like ah inflammation of the brain. um And yeah, a lot of like from then I had like problems, like i had seizures up until I was around 26.
00:03:24
Speaker
um And that really, that like encephalitis, like a lot of people like do some serious damage to their brain from that. Thankfully I was like, okay, but I had this kind of lingering, I guess, problems with my nervous system and like would have seizures. And then that kind of rolled into like later when in my late teens, like a chronic fatigue, um, sort of situation.
00:03:48
Speaker
And so, yeah
COVID's Impact on Millie's Running Journey
00:03:50
Speaker
sort of from my late teens to my mid twenties, I was like, didn't really like I dropped out of sport, like would play a little bit, you know, go for runs occasionally, but um Yeah, kind of like moved away from sport and then like spent a lot of my 20s just like partying and having a good time um and got really somehow. Oh, yeah, I got really into rock climbing.
00:04:15
Speaker
It was sort of like my mid 20s, found climbing and that became kind of, yeah, an obsession for a long time.
00:04:26
Speaker
um And through climbing is how I kind of found running. um During COVID, yeah, like i was living in Melbourne, moved back to w a um like escaped just before the lockdown.
00:04:41
Speaker
like, oh, I'm going to go back to the farm and, you know, hang out with my parents for a month while everything shuts down. And that became nine months or something. And, yeah, through that time is when I i kind of found running because was stuck in WA.
00:04:56
Speaker
ah not really many places to climb close by and um no climbing partners. So I started running um and that then became a really kind of fun and interesting way to move through the terrain that I love to move through.
00:05:17
Speaker
um Climbing, obviously less technical and less vertical, but yeah, it just became like a nice compliment to climbing. And then I kind of Yeah, got really interested in doing kind of long adventure rounds, FKTs, combining the running and climbing. And yeah, that was like, yeah, when I was like COVID, so 2020. And here we are.
00:05:37
Speaker
and here we are It's a really
Lifestyle Changes and End of Seizures
00:05:40
Speaker
interesting journey. I'd heard you were on a YouTube podcast for four Wild Places and you mentioned the seizures there.
00:05:48
Speaker
Part of it was wanting to do your FKT or your Muddy Snow in Tassie, having someone in case you did have a seizure. You mentioned in the water and a danger with that. You said they stopped at 26. Did something change?
00:06:02
Speaker
I think, well, I'm not really sure particularly. I had like the last bout of seizures I had was it was kind of a it was a very strange situation.
00:06:13
Speaker
It was a night out and I was like, out but I was I was like pretty sober um but it was like outside a club and I had I think about 12 seizures so obviously it looked terrible it looked like I'd you know been taking all sorts of drugs yeah it was like 10 p.m at night anyway um it wasn't that at all um and yeah I had about 12 seizures in a night and then I went to hospital for like maybe a week and a half and I was having all these tests done they I couldn't like they wouldn't let me leave the room I had one of the like EEG where they put all the little probes on your head and like you're trying to measure like they're like
00:06:51
Speaker
um reactivity of like the I suppose like pathways in the brain um and I was trying to induce a seizure because i was like if I have a seizure they'll know what's going on so I got my boyfriend to like smuggle me in a bottle of whiskey was trying to like the things that would um make me have a seizure were like being like fear or pain or like just intense stress. So was like, well, if I get really drunk and watch some horror films, maybe I'll have a seizure.
00:07:21
Speaker
Oh, wow. It didn't work. Anyway, they didn't find anything and they couldn't really, yeah, like the whole thing was quite mysterious. But after that I kind of just like, I suppose that was kind of a turning point where I like maybe stopped like,
00:07:39
Speaker
Not that like partying would induce the seizures, but like I just kind of took a turn in my life where I was like, I got really into climbing. I stopped partying so much. Like I wasn't so so stressed at like work and uni anymore.
00:07:53
Speaker
um And so like other things in my lifestyle just kind of changed and maybe that helped. Maybe I grew out of them.
Connection to Land and Adventure Spirit
00:08:00
Speaker
It was kind of a mystery. Yeah. When I heard you saying about it and seeing what you do now, which you say that it's maybe less technical when you're you're doing more adventures by foot, but watching some of your videos, it looks like a place you definitely would not want to be having a seizure with.
00:08:17
Speaker
um And then you're saying that they was induced by fear Is it still something that you worry about or think about when you're on these adventures? Not really at all anymore. Like sometimes I've recently started paragliding and there was like a little bit of apprehension um starting to fly because when you learn to paraglide, sort of like you do it on the ground and then you fly by yourself straight away.
00:08:43
Speaker
um And so there was little bit of apprehension around that, I suppose, but you don't really get this, like the adrenaline rush that might maybe like bring on a seizure. So that's been touch wood so far so good. yeah um There's certain things that like I'm never allowed to do. Like I could never be a taxi driver or a bus driver or something like that. Like they wouldn't let me. um And like I've been interested maybe in like...
00:09:13
Speaker
skydiving but i think that's maybe not like i think personally i think i might just rule that one out like it could be a little bit too much yeah um but in terms of like the climbing and yeah i never really think about it and i've i've never been in a situation where i've like i've been you know in stressful situations where i've been scared but never i When I used to have the seizures, I would have an aura, like a feeling that I was about to have a seizure and I could feel it coming on and I've never had that feeling.
00:09:45
Speaker
was climbing, so touch wood, I think think I'm good. It's got to be incredibly scary to go through as a kid as well, late or at even your late teens. just I can't imagine how much that would have changed your life, yeah
Personal Goals and PTL Race Preparation
00:10:00
Speaker
regardless of sport.
00:10:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think when you're a kid, like looking back... I think, you know, you're quite resilient and you're a little bit oblivious, like, to your situation. You know, I just kind of took that as, you know, I was 10 years old when I first started having seizures.
00:10:19
Speaker
And I just, you know, I suppose you have like a, an unwavering unfounded faith in the medical system and in adults that you know everything's going to be okay and then you become an adult and you realize how much uh we don't know about the human body and um yeah so I think when I was younger I just kind of took it in my stride and then the chronic fatigue like in my late teens again like it just was was just something that
00:10:51
Speaker
you know, look, i think if it happened to me now, i would be much more upset and just kind of downtrodden maybe. But back then it was just, again, like I suppose you when you're a kid, you're a bit more resilient maybe.
00:11:06
Speaker
and But yeah, it certainly like, it certainly taught me some some really good lessons in terms of like taking care of myself, making sure I recover. being really careful um of my nervous system.
00:11:20
Speaker
And I've had like, I've had some problems in the past with training and like insomnia and stuff. Like if I do too much intensity, like I, I do feel it. um So I just have to be really careful there. And it's, it's taught me some good lessons and some, you know, some resilience for sure.
00:11:37
Speaker
That's a nice thing to take out of what yeah would have been a very challenging situation. Yeah, I think my parents were much more scared than I was, you know? Yeah, I can imagine.
00:11:48
Speaker
Speaking of your parents, i see well once we're on this age, growing up on the farm and kind of setting the scene for the stuff that you're doing now, was this the the sense of adventure and connection to
Professional Path and Climate Advocacy
00:12:00
Speaker
land, was that a big part of your childhood?
00:12:04
Speaker
Yeah, definitely, for sure. um My dad um was just, yeah, always taking us on like the Bibbulmun track, like the long hiking route that goes from Perth to Albany.
00:12:19
Speaker
We'd go off and do sections of that, like me and dad or me and dad and my brothers. um You know, for a few days, carry around staff, carry our food. but So from a young age, like that was kind of instilled.
00:12:33
Speaker
We'd go like bikepacking on the Munda Bidi, which is like another long bikepacking route um follows like a similar line to the Bibbulmun track. and And then just like, yeah, out on the farm, like we had cousins that grew up in the same town and cousins that grew up in the town a couple of hours away would come down for holidays and we'd always just be out camping and, you know, like building cubbies and just always in the bush.
00:12:59
Speaker
Um, and yeah, like would spend, you know, go to school, come home. i was really into horse riding when I was a kid. I'd ride my horse like before school, after school, brothers would be on the motorbikes, like helping in the sheep yards.
00:13:14
Speaker
A lot of time spent outside. yeah. So was there much of a competitive environment? No, I wouldn't say so. um i had two younger brothers, so.
00:13:27
Speaker
Hmm. You know, I was for a time, the like the fastest and the strongest, but it didn't last very long. Yeah. Yeah. And then at school, like I grew up in a very small town. There was seven people in my year at school.
00:13:41
Speaker
Um, so no, and wouldn't say it was a competitive environment at all. Like we did, you know, like the usual, like into school sports and, you know, sports on the weekends. And I suppose it's like hockey, like at the school, like primary school level was quite competitive.
00:13:57
Speaker
But it was always just fun, you know, like country sports. It's just more about getting everyone together. And it's a really lovely community more than more than winning or losing. Yeah.
00:14:07
Speaker
ah Would you describe yourself as competitive? ah e I don't know. Like, no. from the like and like her but at the same time, i probably competitive with myself and competitive in the sense of like,
00:14:27
Speaker
like can an element of obsession, not obsession, but like attention to detail that's like, for example, like when we were planning for the PTL last year, we weren't, it wasn't a competitive, we weren't out there to like win.
00:14:41
Speaker
We weren't being competitive with anyone else, but like we were trying to like cross paths cross every T and dot every well, I was, my brother not so much, but, like, you know, made a spreadsheet of, like, exactly what time, like, between each of the, like, huts.
00:15:00
Speaker
And we ended up being, like, two and a half hours off over, like, 114 hours. So, like, to a point where, like, I don't know if you would call that competitive, but, like, kind of, like,
00:15:11
Speaker
a little bit like down in the details and the weeds of trying to like optimize things and be the best that I can be, but not necessarily against other people. Yeah. Now, when I was doing the research into you, you're probably the first person I've spoken to where a competitive nature is not clearly apparent and...
00:15:31
Speaker
And it was honestly, it was nice because it it reiterates that we all have different reasons for doing what we do and um that. but but But listening to you talk about how you grew up in that environment and even just the small class and the community spirit, it kind of all makes sense. So it's just it's just interesting if you saw i saw yourself like that. But I can also imagine preparing for so something like PTL, as we'll talk to soon, being a bit obsessed in the numbers and the details is a beneficial thing.
00:16:00
Speaker
just to follow on from that, like there is a competitive like streak as well. Like I think in my family, like there is like the competitive desire to like, you know, like against yourself, be the very best that you can be and like master whatever it is that you're doing.
00:16:19
Speaker
And, but that being said this year on the PTL, like, we're definitely trying to be competitive. Let's not get too far ahead. So I want to say that one because I'm i'm very intrigued. i'm I'm intrigued by the fact of wanting to go back to something like that. But yeah um you, through early twenty s you mentioned studying. Were you at university?
00:16:37
Speaker
I was at university, yeah. So I studied, um i
Medtech Startup and Focus on Climate Innovation
00:16:40
Speaker
went to Melbourne for university um firstly, and I studied finance and economics. And then I started a master's in engineering and went over to the States.
00:16:51
Speaker
um for some of that time. In the end, i was at uni for about 10 years, um ah long stint. Yeah. So yeah, environmental engineering.
00:17:03
Speaker
Because I'm really intrigued by, and I think you still work there at Energy Lab. Yeah. Yeah. your Longest standing employee. Nice. Yeah, i love it. it What they stand for, who they are, and specifically the, I've got it written down here so don't get it wrong, the Women in Climate Fellowship Program that you lead. Yes.
00:17:24
Speaker
And just sort of understanding a bit more about what that is and and how you view that role. Yeah, so I've been working Working at Energy Lab. So like I've, when I first left university, I, um, well, I started a startup.
00:17:40
Speaker
So Energy Lab is like, um, kind of a hub for in Australia, New Zealand for climate tech, um, and the energy, um, innovation and startups.
00:17:53
Speaker
So basically, run like a bunch of programs from like early ideation people who are coming up with ideas and new technologies through to scale up companies that have already raised tens of billions of dollars and are looking for partners in Australia to build up, like to deploy their technology um and all under the umbrella of combat and climate change.
00:18:16
Speaker
um But the way that I kind of made made my way into that was, um When I was studying in the States, my master's, I dropped out to start a med tech startup, which I did for about two years.
00:18:28
Speaker
And I found that kind of... startup like world quite fascinating you know how do you take like a new technology or a new business model or an idea from nothing and sort of like pressure tested in the market and kind of gain traction and build something um and yeah so then I finished my master's and I started working in management consulting And I found that quite soul-destroying, you know, like going into an office in the, like it just wasn't for me, like going into an office in the city, like working 10 hours a day. i was in Melbourne then, yeah, like moved back to Australia.
00:19:11
Speaker
um And I quit my job, like I quit that job, like went climbing, like moved into a van for a while and then kind of found my way back to Oz and was, um yeah, just looking for something that would combine, like, I've always had a ah passion for or an interest in kind of like environmentalism, like climate change um since I was really young. And that's why I studied environmental engineering. But I wanted to find something that kind of brought together the excitement of working in a start-up
00:19:51
Speaker
um and the kind of like, uncertainty and and, like, I love that kind of space of, like, the unknowns and how do you kind of like, yeah,
Running, Nature, and Climate Advocacy
00:20:00
Speaker
figure it out and make it work.
00:20:02
Speaker
um And then with the with the climate aspect as well. So I found this job at Energy Lab. One of my friends was working there and it was like super early stage of the organisation back in 2019 and I ended up joining and I've been there ever since.
00:20:18
Speaker
Oh, wow. um But, yeah, sorry, I forgot your questions. Like, so in terms of the – So I started out just like working ah like across the board in like all early stage, um working with all early stage startups when we were running programs in like Hobart, like Queensland, New South Wales, Melbourne.
00:20:40
Speaker
We tried to go to Perth, but it was a bit too focused on like mining and resources to start something back in 2019. um But eventually like just the way that my life was going and um ah like I first started working full time and then I was like, can I go fight four days? And then i was like, three days. And, you know, like, oh, can I have some time off to go and do this thing?
00:21:05
Speaker
I've got chamonix for a few months and yeah. that They were always so great. And in the end, like when i first started, um there were not a lot of women in the climate and ah like energy startup space.
00:21:18
Speaker
very male dominated sector because it's like mostly like engineers starting these companies. And so we started this program to try and get more women starting startups in this space. And that's the the Women in Climate and Energy Fellowship, yeah which, um yeah, we I started in 2019.
00:21:39
Speaker
And um eventually just the way that life worked and things worked with Energy Lab, that was the thing that i really wanted to like keep working on and keep doing and so now that's my sole kind of role at energy lab is just running and organizing that program and it's so much fun i love it um Usually we do like one cohort a year and it's, I think we've supported like a or over 120 women wow in the kind of, yeah, climate, energy, innovation space, like women who are interested in starting startups or are curious or already have an idea and are like, you know, really charging ahead with with making something out of it.
00:22:24
Speaker
So it's always like a really interesting, diverse bunch of women who are just, you know, under the same under like following the same mission of of making an impact in climate I can tell by the smile on your face as you were talking then that this means quite a lot to you and you're you're very proud of of what you're doing and yeah it's incredible I feel very lucky that that's that's my job yeah yeah yeah the original medtech startup what happened to that Oh, it failed, unfortunately.
00:22:56
Speaker
We were, like so many startups do. yeah um We were working on ah a wearable device, or like a thermoelectric device that chemotherapy patients could use during chemo to stop chemotherapy-induced alopecia, so like hair loss during chemotherapy.
00:23:15
Speaker
Mostly like targeted. was interesting like
Settling in Chamonix and Cultural Adaptation
00:23:20
Speaker
reading the research in terms of by the Mayo Clinic, like majority of people's, can't remember the exact stats because this was a long time ago, but it was like one of the biggest fears of people when going through chemotherapy was like, am I going to lose my hair? Especially for women who had children or were working in a corporate environment who kind of wanted to maintain some sort of sense of normalcy during the the chemotherapy process.
00:23:48
Speaker
And there were other products out there um using kind of pretty complex like low tech solutions, like dry ice on the scalp and things like this. So the way that it worked was it slowed down. It cooled the scalp. So it slowed down the medic metabolic rate of the the cell and inhibited the um uptake of the chemotherapy drug into the hair follicle.
00:24:12
Speaker
And yeah, so we were working on kind of a, like a, suppose, more high tech solution. um to the ones that were out there. Like the science had been proven. So it was just about um improving the improving the product.
00:24:25
Speaker
yeah And it it was going really well. We worked on it for almost two years. But it it ended up just being like a a human problem, like the team just kind of disintegrating and falling apart, sadly.
00:24:41
Speaker
But it was a really good experience. um And looking back, you know, it wasn't something like it was I was in my early 20s. Like it was, yeah, a great experience. It was really exciting. But it wasn't really like a problem that I was super passionate and invested in solving.
00:24:58
Speaker
So when it didn't work, it was great. it wasn't you know the end of the world and so exactly given that you were studying or doing master in climate engineering where did this medical tech element come in for you yeah so i was actually at the university of um colorado in boulder and we i was um We were doing like a, it was, it kind of happened really fortuitously. We were doing a, an engineering entrepreneurship like class and it was, we were tasked with, you know, finding a problem to solve and building a solution.
00:25:39
Speaker
And, um, like one of my friends who I was in the class with, his mother had gone through a chemo and use one of these competitors,
00:25:49
Speaker
like these competitive products, like the dry ice cap sort of scenario. And so we were like, all right, like this is, you know, and she, it was super painful. it was like really expensive.
00:26:03
Speaker
Like, okay, this is a problem that needs solving. Yeah. Um, and then, so we started like doing lots of customer interviews, like reaching out to hospitals, like found some, it's like, um, great woman at the university of Denver, who was like really, um, an oncologist who was really like championing the, these methods and, but also looking for a new solution.
00:26:26
Speaker
but interviewed a lot of people who had gone through chemo and had used different solutions. um And like we went, I remember we went into the hospital with a patient while she was using this other solution during her chemotherapy.
Valuing Experiences Over Material Success
00:26:40
Speaker
So we kind of gathered enough data. to determine that this was a problem that needed solving and there was, you know, a need for it in the market and there was a market for it and that's kind of how it all kicked off. And yeah, so it was like definitely like a huge detour dogleg away from what I was studying, but it was also very interesting.
00:27:03
Speaker
come And yeah, dropped out of uni to kind of see where that went, but ended up at a dead end and rerouted. i I really admire it.
00:27:14
Speaker
It speaks to like just because you choose one part, it doesn't mean that every other door closes at the same time. exactly Options are still always there. um no And so from a running perspective, started in 2020, it seems like everything kind of drew towards those self-supported adventures.
00:27:33
Speaker
And you've already mentioned sort of the draw towards climate advocacy. Was that being part of nature and and immersing yourself in that environment? Is that always what's kind of drawn you? Definitely. Yeah, absolutely.
00:27:44
Speaker
um don't know, there's just something about ah being out alone in, you know, vast landscapes, big mountains, like the the wilderness in Tassie, wherever it is, like, and just, yeah, kind of...
00:28:08
Speaker
um real like just Just having those experiences out in nature, yeah whether it's like sunrise, sunset, wind on your face, listen to the birds, like that like quintessential... like Western Australian, like hot summer, like everything's sun and all you can hear is the flies, you know, kinds of like beautiful experiences that kind of just make you feel small and insignificant.
00:28:39
Speaker
Um, I don't It's just like, maybe it's like going back, you know, like touching something in the lizard brain that's like incredibly calming or just like grounding. But yeah, that's kind of like what I but i love when I'm doing those things. And actually, it's funny you mentioned Tassie. I'm going to be back.
00:28:56
Speaker
I'm going back to Australia in October for a few months. And I'm just so excited to get back into the Southwest Wilderness in Tassie because it's just so incredible. Like in comparison to being in Chamonix where the mountains are vast and beautiful and, you know, like so incredible to be up in the high mountains here. But It's not, you know, there's people and there's infrastructure and, like, in Tassie there's nothing.
00:29:22
Speaker
And there's so much of Australia, you know, there's nothing. It's wild. um The mountains might not be as, like, huge or precipitous, but it's, like, something so special. So, yeah, for sure, definitely, like, the thing that's drawn me to those kind of adventures is is, like, having those experiences alone in nature but also having those experiences alone and the kind of, like,
00:29:47
Speaker
self-sufficiency aspect of that. I really love that. Yeah. Kind of being like very self-reliant. That's really cool. I like it. a Whilst you were talking then pops into
Living in the Present and Adventure Philosophy
00:30:00
Speaker
my mind of something that I personally struggle with and it's as a trail runner or just somebody who is outdoor focused there's this drive to go and visit all these incredible places and see everywhere across the world but then there's the other side of me that's fighting about the climate impact of that.
00:30:17
Speaker
How do you go about navigating those thoughts? It's a tricky one isn't it? It's so It's so difficult. i think I think the thing about the way that we think about climate change and something that I'm pretty kind of steadfastly passionate about sharing is like this move away from us as individuals being the problem, you know, like we're flying here or we're eating meat or we're
00:30:53
Speaker
you know, not doing our recycling and it's like our problem. But in fact, like the biggest change is making corporations and governments and, you know, like higher up in the chain. That's where the the pressure needs to be and the change needs to happen instead of like making ourselves feel guilty. And of course, like we all should be very conscious about how we're living and the impact we're having on um the environment. But Also, you know, we're only human and, you know, you could like it would be a very um kind of difficult life to live if you're like, you know, everybody, we all have faults, whether it be like travel or how we eat or how we live, um what kind of car we drive, like no one's perfect. And if we're constantly sort of um like nitpicking at ourselves or at each other, like,
00:31:46
Speaker
that's That's not the best way to go about solving climate change in my opinion. um No. Yeah. So it's definitely something that you like we need to think about. And, you know, if you're flying here, there and everywhere all the time, it's definitely not great.
00:32:01
Speaker
But, um you know, you also want to enjoy life. And I think, like, if you're kind of, yeah, like the best way that you can have an impact on, the on like,
00:32:16
Speaker
those around you and the environment is by, you know, being like, you know, your best self and like the kind of most loving, compassionate, happy person. Well, not necessarily always happy, but, um you know, empathetic person you can be.
00:32:32
Speaker
And like by hiding under a rock and like not traveling or not doing the things that maybe bring you alive. that might not be the best angle either. yeah So, yeah. Sorry, I didn't really answer that question very well, but it's a tricky conundrum.
00:32:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah i I think about it the same way that if we are always putting the blame and the pressure on ourselves, the reality is is that is that like our our impact individually is small but if we put the focus on the people that actually have the control and can make the impact and their changes are astronomically bigger than what we could ever do don't know i feel like the accountability goes both ways so exactly you'd put that way more eloquently than me james Well, I had your entire time you were talking. I could think about that
PTL Race Experience with Brother Charlie
00:33:21
Speaker
answer. So that's all good.
00:33:23
Speaker
So speaking about travel, because this the thought about when you said you're Chamonix, come back to Australia. you do You're in Chamonix now. Are you living there permanently, essentially? Yes.
00:33:34
Speaker
yeah Essentially, yes. How have you managed that from a visa perspective? um I very luckily got a talent visa, which is like a four-year visa.
00:33:45
Speaker
wow which is awesome. Yeah, I started out with a working holiday visa, which if anyone's interested in coming to France for a year, it's a pretty easy one to get.
00:33:56
Speaker
um And it's a year long. And then after that, I yeah applied for a talent visa, which is up to four years. what Was it about Chamonix that but drew you? ah The climbing, really.
00:34:10
Speaker
I first came here um on a climbing trip. in 2019. I mean, I'd heard about Chamonix for a long time, you know, it's kind of like the birth of alpinism. The mountains here are totally precipitous and like and insanely beautiful.
00:34:26
Speaker
um And yeah, came here on a climbing trip in 2019. Sort of fortuitously, we I was on like a kind of sport climbing trip down in the south of France and the weather wasn't great.
00:34:37
Speaker
And then just looked at the weather in Chamonix. It looked really good. So we came to Chamonix and kind of did, I'd done a little bit of alpine climbing before, but not really. And that was kind of my first taste.
00:34:52
Speaker
And then, yeah, after that, I mean, COVID happened. and And then as soon as kind of Australia opened the borders again, 2022, came here for a summer.
00:35:05
Speaker
sort of tested out and then decided to move back after that wow culturally how have you found living in France um Chamonix a little bit of a is a very different to the rest of France I would say It's very multicultural, like most, like I speak English.
00:35:30
Speaker
Like I'm trying to learn French, but it's kind I mean, I shouldn't make excuses, but majority of my day I'm speaking English. Like all my friends and even even my French friends, we speak English because their English is great and my French is like speaking to a baby.
00:35:49
Speaker
And there's so many people from all over the world that in English is sort of like the the common ah common language. um they I mean, all of the, like, the French bureaucracy, like, changing a driver's licence and getting the visa and all of that kind of stuff is it difficult, especially when you don't speak language.
00:36:10
Speaker
and Like, getting, going to the doctor. This winter I had to, and not having health insurance here, like, I haven't organised that yet because I'm just a bit disorganised and it's, like, you know, a lot of paperwork.
00:36:22
Speaker
um And I had, I've had to have two MRIs on, like, both my knees this winter and that's, like, you know, that's cost me like always two grand. Like all of these things are just kind of annoying little extra things about trying to live overseas. But for the most part, it's been really good. And, you know, there's so many other people in this town who are in the same boat, who have the same visa, are going through the same processes and are always happy to help. So yeah from that point, it's been kind of pretty seamless.
00:36:51
Speaker
Yeah. Is it quite a rotating community, if that makes sense? Yeah. There's definitely sort of like through the seasons, you know, you get people coming just for the winter and others, you know, the skiers and then others coming just for the summer, more the climbers and the runners.
00:37:08
Speaker
um But there's definitely like a really great community of people who live here year round. And you kind of get to know those people, know, you know, just through being here for the whole year.
00:37:20
Speaker
yeah um And it's, yeah, it's a, it's a wonderful, wonderful community of just like people who, you know, it the way you kind of catch up with people, interact with people by doing activities, like going for run, going skiing, going to the crag.
00:37:37
Speaker
um So it's a, yeah, lots of like, like-minded, wonderful people. And I'm So many people, at least my friends, who have come here, you know, they don't have their family around them.
00:37:49
Speaker
um They've come here for the mountains. So it's like, you know, just because like everyone's kind of out to support and help each other as well, which is really nice. And I love that element of like walking down the street. You can't really walk through Chamonix without seeing someone you know.
00:38:07
Speaker
um and that I love because it's like being back in Kojinup where I grew up, like the tiny country town where you know everyone, everyone knows you, they've known you since you a baby. um And I like that like familiarity. It's not for everyone.
00:38:21
Speaker
So many people like the anonymity of a city, but I really like that really like small community vibe. That's really interesting. it For a while, my wife and I lived in Bright in Victoria. And the thing we struggled with was the fact that you could never we felt like we could never find our own space.
00:38:40
Speaker
yeah and But we're not city people, but it's just that sort of interim, hence all where we live. ah But I can see if that's the sort of person that you are and that's environment, the community that you like.
00:38:52
Speaker
it would be beautiful there. yeah We were were over last year and yeah, it's, it felt like a pretty special place and it's pretty hard not to, not to be an outdoor oriented person and not want to live there when you look at the surroundings.
00:39:04
Speaker
It's yeah. There's, and there's just so much to do I mean, I don't live in Chamonix. Like I live in La Souche, which is yeah you know, 30 minutes bike down the valley. And I like that because during the really hectic, like summer season, Chamonix a bit much, like it's a bit crowded for me. And like, there's a lot of people.
00:39:22
Speaker
So I like sort of like being able to tap into Chamonix and like, you know, having that close by, but being in Lasusha is great and, you know, you're so close.
00:39:34
Speaker
yeah um But, yeah, it's it's great. Like there's so much to do. yes he's like It's like a pro and a con because often you're like, oh it's like hard to make a decision what do I do today i mean you know yeah it's it's it's we all have our challenges a bad problem not too bad but we all have our challenges yeah it's from a ah work perspective at the moment you are you full-time I work part-time.
00:40:03
Speaker
Okay. So do have that flexibility and freedom. Indeed. um Yeah. So it's, it's pretty nice to be able to do that. it But that's by choice. Like that's by architecture, you know, it's sort of like, it's always this like continual conundrum.
00:40:17
Speaker
It's like, Oh, I should probably work more so I can, you know, like save some money for all the things that I should do as an adult. But on the other hand, I'm like, I'm trying to, it's like, I really am just like at the moment working as little as possible to kind of cover my expenses and spend as much time as I can in the mountains.
00:40:36
Speaker
Yeah, that's a choice. in In one of your ah Instagram posts, you mentioned, ah think it was on your recce for PTL that you were hiking with, ah maybe through Switzerland, but you're hiking with a lady, ah with you were your brother, and there was lady that had a very weathered, very tanned skin.
00:40:53
Speaker
And it just gave you the impression of somebody that hasn't spent time behind the screen and has lived a life of adventure, ah which as I was staring at my screen, reading that very much resonated with me. But...
00:41:05
Speaker
you're in your mid-30s moment yes yeah there's we have a lot of years of working ahead of us but not a lot of years where we can adventure and get in the mountains like that yeah and I think that's like a I just I suppose like when I was first working in kind of corporate like job and 50 billable hours a week, meaning that you have to be at the office, you know, 10 billable hours a day. So you're at the office for like 12 hours if you want to have lunch or a cup of coffee or whatever.
00:41:37
Speaker
And just like watching,
Strengthening Sibling Bonds through Adventure
00:41:40
Speaker
I was young, you know, and I was just like watching my colleagues and was just like, is that what I really want in my life? And I just couldn't, to each their own.
00:41:50
Speaker
And, ah you know, I have friends that like love that lifestyle, but I just, I felt so unhappy and so kind of like claustrophobic and trapped like in a city, in a high rise building, staring in front of the screen, like also trying to concentrate for that many hours a day, like without going outside.
00:42:09
Speaker
yeah I, yeah I just, I really like found it very difficult and yeah, I suppose like from then on, I was just like not really buying into this idea of working, working my life until I'm, you know, at an age of retirement and then going okay now i have the time and the money to to go and see the world or you know do the things that i want to do outside yeah i feel like i was like that doesn't seem like like it's it seems like a con right because at that point maybe your body can't do what you want it to do and it's not about getting to the end you know like alan watts has this great i love listening to this like little segment of one of his speeches around um
00:42:55
Speaker
Like it's not about like building and building to get to this like end point. it's It's, you know, cliche to say, but like it's the journey as you go and it's, you know, and why does that have to start when you're 60 when you've kind of like saved all your money and now you're ready to go? It's like why not why don't do it now? Flip it.
00:43:17
Speaker
um Yeah, so I think it's definitely – I mean, I really, and living here, you you know, you can, like people who are mountain guides, they are in the mountains outside all the time.
00:43:31
Speaker
They kind of like living that, like have found a way to make it work for them in terms of like their their work is being outside. um Not everyone has that luxury or not everyone maybe even wants to do that.
00:43:43
Speaker
But yeah, I think it's important to kind of take stock and realize what is important to you and if you if being outside and, you know, moving your body is something that's like, for me, that's really important. And I don't like, it's a priority and like something I really value.
00:44:03
Speaker
And I'm happy to maybe make some other sacrifices in my life in terms of like things that I own or, you know, not maybe not buying a house or like not a big house, you know, like making sacrifices in other areas of my life in order to be able to spend more time.
00:44:20
Speaker
outside you strike me as well as someone who's in the same boat as myself and and by sound sounded by the same reason that because of skiing have a whole bunch of injuries and torn things and broken things and that probably when we're 60 it's not going to be a whole lot of fun and I'm really I'm praying for robotics essentially same yeah and so the drive the drive to enjoy what we have now is pretty high Yes, indeed.
00:44:48
Speaker
few injuries from skiing, down skiing. Probably doesn't help that I'm not very good at it. it i I was meant to be quite good and it didn't help me much either. So I wouldn't i wouldn't worry about that. um Whilst you've been in Chamonix, are you feeling more drawn towards climbing or towards running? Or are the two sort of a pretty equal intersect for your life still?
00:45:15
Speaker
Um, that's a really good question. And one that I've kind of been deliberating with a lot lately because I think it's hard to, cause originally it was like all in on climbing and then I was like all in on running and didn't climb for a long time.
00:45:32
Speaker
Um, and getting back into climbing when you haven't climbed for a long time is quite difficult. Like, yeah you know, like it's certain like specific strength, like finger strength that you need that it's kind of hard to maintain. And, and,
00:45:45
Speaker
the last couple of years has been kind of an interesting and difficult balance between climbing and running because they don't necessarily go hand in hand in terms of training.
00:45:57
Speaker
Like if you're especially training for like long, long races, it's really hard to stay strong for climbing. um And if you're, you know, totally like different energy systems. And if you're training a lot for climbing, you know, you're getting quite strong and like muscly and maybe that's like not always the best for running or you're like, you just don't have time to do both, you know, because it's tiring.
00:46:21
Speaker
um so I don't, it's a like, it's such a hard one because I love both. And I kind of sort of see myself kind of fluctuating between the two.
00:46:33
Speaker
yeah i'm not sure. Like, you know, it's the flavor of the month. Like what am I enjoying the most? So like, you know, at the moment the PTL is happening at the end of August. So I'm trying to like run as much, but the PTL is really great because it's like a long endurance race. I don't need to be super fast.
00:46:49
Speaker
I don't need to have great running economy. It's more about like long days in the mountains, which I can, you know, pair with the Alpine climbing pretty nicely. um Not so much like getting strong for sport climbing, but yeah.
00:47:03
Speaker
So I don't know, James, like it's such a good question. I mean, I think being in Chamonix, like there's amazing running. It's so brilliant. But I also like when I'm running a lot, look at the mountains and go, I just want to be up there.
00:47:18
Speaker
just to be climbing. If you were climbing, looking at trails, would you get the same feeling there?
00:47:27
Speaker
Sometimes yes. Like if it's, there was a couple of summers ago when it was actually like very hot and it was quite dangerous in the mountains. There was a lot of rock fall. I had a couple of like instances where I got really like scared. Like I had a like twice on two different climbs, like, like kind of like microwave size rock fall, like very, very close.
00:47:51
Speaker
ah wow And I was like, all right, not I like just really want to be running now because climbing is too scary. ah Yeah.
00:48:02
Speaker
It's so different. Like the climbing, I mean, both require you to be, know, like both are quite meditative in a sense. um You know, climbing, it depends on the climbing that you're doing. But if you're like talking like, you know, like,
00:48:19
Speaker
rock climbing it's not like uh mountaineering where it's more like a you know a walk up a hill like somewhat technical walk up a mountain but like rock climbing where you're very much like there's that fear factor you're in the moment like you're working on like tiny specific moves on the rock like that's like you have to be so concentrated and so meditative and it's like really easy to kind of get into a flow state um which is like and then like comparing that to running it's more I suppose kind of like freeing and like um yeah you kind of get into the rhythm and the groove and it's like yeah it's it's it's beautiful and difficult in a very different way especially kind of the running that I do which is like long yeah stuff yeah do you you find yourself going into the flow state while whilst you're running
00:49:16
Speaker
On a downhill, yeah, would say. Not on an uphill. Yeah, that doesn't exist.
00:49:24
Speaker
Definitely. Whilst you were were were talking then, I ah was interested in the fact that like, I personally find the flow state is when I'm really focused and is often on downhills for me as well. But that feels like it translates across to so climbing. And the then do you find yourself going into the same kind of head state, having the same thoughts whilst you're climbing and running?
00:49:49
Speaker
I think with running, it's maybe more euphoric. Yeah. You know, like a nice, like a down, a flowy downhill, which is like technical and you're concentrating, but you're also like just kind of, you know, getting into the like euphoria of the flow state. Like it's a beautiful place to be. Whereas climbing, it's more like there's more effort maybe it. Like as in like ah find...
00:50:16
Speaker
when I'm in a, like a flow with climbing, it's like something that's on like the edge of like, what's like a limit. It's not like so hard, but it's like, it's hard enough that you need to be like fully concentrating.
00:50:29
Speaker
And then you get to the top and you're like, whoa, that like at, in the moment, I'm not really like, oh, this is amazing. It's like after the fact you're like, oh, that was so cool. But in the moment, I'm not thinking about anything except like,
00:50:41
Speaker
where the hell I'm going to put my foot or my head next. Yeah. Yeah. I find that really interesting because it's in in my but background, I've not had a sport where I've ever had a state of flow before running.
00:50:52
Speaker
And so I only know it from that perspective, but hearing you talk about it, like I can see the similarities, but I can also see the differences and can understand also sounds very scary to me getting into a flow state climbing, but I guess it's just about executing it very well. Yeah.
00:51:08
Speaker
Um, And maybe something that you've practiced already, you know, like, you know, the moves. Yes. yeah Yes. like yeah That's a good point. Also have no idea really about climbing. So probably could be the issue there.
00:51:19
Speaker
yeah You've mentioned a couple times already about PTL and that you're going back this year, which means that you've already done it. And it is something that I'd like to talk about for for a while, um if you're happy to, because I would love to. I'm obsessed with the PTO. Okay, cool. Because the event has always really intrigued me, not necessarily from the sense of me wanting to do it, but initially just from the the danger element of it and actually the fact that it was...
00:51:51
Speaker
running and then i saw you kind of wrecking some of the 2023 course and one of the photos looked like essentially a sheer drop that if you we were off course oh okay cool right but are some really like exposed places on the pto but i think i know the photo you mean yeah we were not on the right bit Right. Okay. That's good to know. Cause I was, I looked to that and I just thought surely they can't send people that have been going out for a hundred hours or also so on that sort of train.
00:52:21
Speaker
ah amazing They can, but when they do it, they they will have like a via ferrata cord. So you have to clip in. Yeah. So there's definitely some like super exposed and like bits where I'm like, Oh, I'm glad I'm a climber, but they always have them protected.
00:52:36
Speaker
Okay. Well, I guess it sort of goes us the same way though, but what, what was the draw card for you and your brother for PTL? Yeah. so I suppose like,
00:52:47
Speaker
we It was like 2023. I first saw the PTL in the summer of 2022 and like everyone, like during the UTMB week, everyone was kind of like cruising like straight away up the VK coming out of Chamonix. These are big backpacks, helmets, their axes on the back.
00:53:06
Speaker
was like, what is that? And so I was like, oh, it's the PTL. It's like interesting, like. i'm I'm intrigued, but never had ah another thought about it.
00:53:17
Speaker
Yeah. um And then 2023, me and my brother were crewing um our friend Matt Dunn in the UTMB. And then we were waiting at the finish and we just saw like these totally haggard humans going down the chute because they kind of finish, like the last runners of the PTL finish around the same time as the last runners of the UTMB. Yeah.
00:53:42
Speaker
um And you know they had like packs, like huge packs, like crap hanging off the back of their packs, um helmets, like crampons. Like what the hell? ever Everyone looked like they'd gone to see God.
00:53:58
Speaker
And we were like, that looks really interesting. um yeah We should do it. like And we just kind of like said on the sideline, we should do it next year. um And a couple of days later, we like were running around, like me and my bro, we went for a run and then we were just chatting about I'm like, yeah, let's let's actually do it.
00:54:18
Speaker
Let's do it next year. So that was kind of all it took. We were just intrigued by like the distance and the fact that you had to do it in a team and the fact that it was like, you know, you're crossing glaciers, you're like, it's mostly off, like pretty much mostly entirely off trail. like Okay. You have to navigate yourself.
00:54:38
Speaker
um It's like unsupported and like very, very technical. um And it's just like seemed like a really cool adventure to do together. So, yeah that I guess like that was in um August and then in January I applied.
00:54:58
Speaker
And, yeah, we got in and that's kind of how it all started. But, yeah, it was mostly just like, the team element, the technicality and the, the, the one, the other question of like, what would it be like to go and do that race?
00:55:13
Speaker
Yeah. What's the qualification process like for that? Um, you have to submit an application form, which sort of changes each year slightly, but it's basically asking you, um, questions around your running experience, your ultra running experience, your mountaineering experience.
00:55:35
Speaker
And your kind of orienteering experience. Like, can you navigate? And then this year they had a lot of questions around, like, what is the most dangerous thing, like, that you've done in the mountains? Or have you been in any sticky situations? And how do you get out of it Because they want to make sure that you can be safe out there because it is like...
00:55:56
Speaker
largely like it's it it is quite dangerous like objectively um yeah they've had some deaths i think on the pt i think that's what's kind of stood with me that the event hasn't just had one year where they've had a death there has been a couple times hasn't there yeah believe so and the interesting thing was like it's it was created by can't remember the guy's name it's like Jean-Claude, I think, Marmiers, who's like the head of the French military troops.
00:56:26
Speaker
um Just this like really interesting hardcore guy who used to like sleep on his porch in the winter in Chamonix to like, you know, toughen up.
00:56:37
Speaker
And he was the guy, probably not that applicable for the running audience, but he created the Piole d'Or, which is like the golden ice axe, which is like the awards that happen each year for like interesting new alpine climbs. So like, who's like kind of pushing the envelope, um, in alpine climbing.
00:56:53
Speaker
So he comes, he came from like an alpine climbing background, mountaineering background. And that's sort of like why the PTL is the way that it is like, so then, yeah, that's kind of how the race began.
00:57:07
Speaker
Do you know how it got absorbed by the UTMB? I don't know. Yeah. It seems like ah two completely different worlds colliding. Exactly. It's like, you know, the hyper professional, like, you know, championships sort of like all the fastest runners and then like this weird uncle that's the PTL. Yeah.
00:57:28
Speaker
yeah Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's interesting because it, because did did it start on Monday? It starts on Monday. Yeah. Yeah. And then it finishes on the Sunday. So seven days is how long they have to do it.
00:57:39
Speaker
ah Yeah. Yeah, it's incredible. like and obviously for you and your brother, it went, and you've mentioned that you weren't doing it with any intentions of being competitive, but you finished third, which the first Australians to do so.
00:57:52
Speaker
And you were only the second female to make the podium in its history? i I think so, yeah. Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, it was totally unexpected.
00:58:03
Speaker
was totally unexpected as I said, like we weren't going out there to be competitive. We were going out there to just like have a ah great time together and see see what it was like, see how much we could push ourselves.
00:58:16
Speaker
yeah And it was sort of like no expectation or no pressure because I tore my MCL like in April, had to have two months off. My brother had like a – pretty bad problem with one of like the like tendons or something in his foot so he couldn't run for like most of july so like training was going well at hazard yeah um and we just wanted to kind of spend the summer having that was like another reason we wanted to do the pto because it would mean that we could spend the summer kind of just like going on long runs doing alpine climbing and kind of
00:58:51
Speaker
Yeah, just like having having a fun summer, which also kind of contributed to training, like, you know, would somehow help us be fit for the PTL. So, yeah, we went into it. We had no expectation.
00:59:03
Speaker
We started at the very back of the pack because we were like, hey, let's not get, let's but you know, get too... crazy and start off hard we started off super cruisy for the first two days and then kind of like maybe like yeah halfway through the race or our race um we're like oh we're like quite close to the front of the pack let's let's go so the second half of the race we became super duper competitive But the first half we were just chilling because we were so unsure about you know you're like going out too hard. we wouldn't Neither of us had ever run that far.
00:59:41
Speaker
um Just like a little secret, my brother had never run more than 50Ks before we did the PTL. um But I knew that you know he's the stronger of the two of us by far. So there was no question about whether or not he could handle it.
00:59:56
Speaker
but yeah it was it was amazing like totally kind of surprised ourselves well take take me through because I'm yeah i'm I'm incredibly intrigued break it up which however kind of feels right for you but If I was lining up in that start line and I've never done anything like that, the first thing i would go is how do i possibly like approach this? Do I just walk off the start? Because I'm going to be going for, if I'm lucky, 112 hours if that being your fastest estimate.
01:00:29
Speaker
So yeah, what approach do you guys take from the start? Yeah, so I suppose we started, we did a recce where we did like some of the old course to kind of get an understanding of what the terrain would be like um and like how quickly we could move over that kind of terrain.
01:00:50
Speaker
We wanted to see like, okay, how dangerous, because we'd read stories and we'd like so read a few blogs. We were like, but how kind of techie and how exposed and how,
01:01:02
Speaker
yeah dangerous is it really yeah um so we did that recce we got a bit of an understanding of the kind of terrain especially moving at night like that was going to be like a big thing um and what and how quickly we could move over the terrain So we had an estimation of like how long it would take us.
01:01:20
Speaker
And we spoke to and a lady, a nook, a friend who had done it a few years prior and her advice was, um you know, it the race won't start until the last 100K.
01:01:31
Speaker
Like just don't go out too hard. Okay, good advice, good advice. And then she was like, you know, you will have like you'll yell at each other, you'll have mental breakdown, you'll want to finish like whatever. You want to stop, like, just, you know, keep it together.
01:01:47
Speaker
Okay, good. Noted. um And so we the approach was really like, okay, let's start out chill. Let's just start out really slowly. Started standing on the start line, um just like really excited, I guess, to get going.
01:02:04
Speaker
And um like we started, like it was almost, it wasn't the Chamonix VK, but it was like, basically i think it was like a 1200 meter climb like off the bat um and so we just like power hiked basically the climb but we were at the very back of the pack and it was single track so we just spent the first kind of day trying to like get you know it was like it was slow to try and get past people and kind of like find our own pace um
01:02:38
Speaker
if we have our time over, which hopefully we will in August, we'll not make that mistake again. Um, but yeah, like, and then the first day was like climbing up Mont Buey, which is like, I don't know, it's like 3000 something.
01:02:51
Speaker
It was like a lot of vert. mean, it's 25,000 meters of vert over the, over 300 K. Um, so like it's very vert. Yeah. It's huge. It's like just basically up, down, up, down. Yeah. That's all you're doing really.
01:03:06
Speaker
Um, And, yeah, we just like, I suppose like when we finished, we're coming into the evening of the first day. i think we were like in in the top ten. We were kind of like, whoa. But on that first day we would we were just trying to be slow.
01:03:23
Speaker
We would be overtaking people on the uphill and then those same people would be like blasting past us on the downhill. And we were just looking at each other like, are we doing this wrong? Like, should we be going a little bit faster on these downhills?
01:03:35
Speaker
We're like, no, no, we need to save our quads. I was just like, and, but as it turned out, like, I think it was like 40 something teams had dropped out by the end of the second day.
01:03:48
Speaker
Like it was ah wow huge attrition. um and I think like, i mean. maybe we can get to this later, but like the course was in like very technical last year, which played to our strengths, but so many teams ended up dropping out um because because I think of the technicality. And in the end, they had to reroute the route at the end of the course after the first four teams had come through because they were worried that not as many people or rumor has it they changed it.
01:04:16
Speaker
Like, because they were worried that not as many not enough teams would finish the race. saying so So they don't keep the same course each year by the sounds of it? They change the course because part of it is navigating yourself.
01:04:30
Speaker
And that's kind of part of the adventure. So yeah, but every year they change the course. Like it's pretty much every year 300-ish Ks, 25,000 meters, but it changes each year. Yeah. five thousand metre but it changes each year yeah God, that's going to be a hard feat to create those courses each year. Definitely.
01:04:49
Speaker
There's only so many ways that you can go around Mont Blanc in 300 years. um But that's kind of part of the like allure and the appeal of the PTL. It's like the separate like weird older, as we said, like the weird uncle to the UTMB, but there's like such an amazing community around PTL.
01:05:09
Speaker
Like they start working on the course basically as soon as the last year's PTL is finished, that they're working on the course for the next year. They're out there, they're wrecking. Like it's really expensive race to partake in, but you can see where the money goes because they have to, yeah. like And up until the very end, you know, like if there's high, like lots of snow, they have to reroute things and like, yeah, it's, it's quite the undertaking.
01:05:36
Speaker
um And the community is just amazing. Like you have the same volunteers coming back year after year and you see them like at the different, like, you know, they'll be at like one refuge and then maybe you see them again at the end or see them up on some pass and like kind of become friends with them. And yeah, we had such a good time just kind of with, and like speaking kind of them speaking English or like, like bad Italian, us bad Italian and bad French. Like, yeah, it's really cool.
01:06:06
Speaker
your experience doing the fkt and tassie was there much that you could take from that towards ptl um oh definitely i think like just like big days on the feet um uh like navigating i mean the navigation on the ptl is not difficult i think if you're like watch broke or Like we had, we would use like the watch mostly first and foremost.
01:06:40
Speaker
And then if it was like getting to a tricky bit where we needed to actually have a look at like a topographic map, we'd like use the phone to kind of see the contours. Okay. Where are we like, where are we going up this mountain? Is it like this ridge or is it the gully or whatever?
01:06:55
Speaker
Um, so a little bit of that from the Tassie, but I, I suppose just more like the digging deep and like just consistently running for a long period of time. Yeah. Um, and yeah, I was running in pain probably as well. Like on the Tassie, on the Tassie race, I broke my big toe.
01:07:17
Speaker
Um, but I didn't realize it. Like, I mean, I knew something was up, but it's like, I want to call a helicopter. That seems a bit extreme. So I just finished. Um, but then on the PTL, I had really bad problems with ITB pain.
01:07:32
Speaker
Like I 50 Ks, like in like 50 Ks in, I was like excruciating ITB pain. And I knew that was going to happen because I had some like problems, like maybe if like a month out, um,
01:07:46
Speaker
and so I knew it was coming but I didn't think it would come so soon so then for the rest of the race it was like it was agony every downhill it was just and I had Claire O'Brien Smith I don't know if you know Claire um she's a runner for Solomon and she was out here and I was like on she's a physio was on the voice notes to her like hey what do I do like I'm in so much pain and she would reply being like, yeah, it's a little uncomfortable. Like, just remember, you can't do any damage. Like, it's going to be a little uncomfortable. I was like, little uncomfortable. Like, I am in so much pain.
01:08:20
Speaker
yeah um So, yeah, like we had, i ended up carrying with me like, a tennis ball and like I had like, this was Claire's advice. She told me to pack in our one, like we had a drop bag that you could get at like two places along the course and I had like spray ice.
01:08:36
Speaker
So I actually ended up carrying that in my pack. And every time we stopped, was like, I sprained my legs, like rolling out my, my glutes, like trying but yeah, that was like one of the hardest things about the PTL. So.
01:08:49
Speaker
Definitely learning to run in pain, something I learned from the Tassie adventure. Yeah. when When you've got that kind of stuff going on, what so how do you keep going? How like how are you pushing through that?
01:09:03
Speaker
um I guess, yeah. So like on the PTL, yeah, as I said, like first day in, it was like so much pain on the downhills. And I guess like to the point where oh, should I keep going?
01:09:15
Speaker
But it was never, I suppose it was like something that I flirted with, but it was never something that I was really thinking about dropping out. yeah I guess because it was ITB pain, which, you know, if so many runners, you know, we've all kind of experienced that to some degree probably.
01:09:29
Speaker
I knew that I wasn't doing any damage. It was just like so that question to continue wasn't like a health question. It was more just like can I handle this pain for another 250 Ks and like 20,000 metres of downhill.
01:09:46
Speaker
um And don't know, like we we played a lot of games, Charlie and I, to try and like keep the spirits up. We were trying to play like – um game of memory where you're like okay went shopping with grandma and I bought a carton of milk and a stick you know and you like stack all the things on top of each other and try and remember them in a row to try to like take our minds off like the pain um it didn't really work because our brains were not um in a way to like work on memory um we had like
01:10:23
Speaker
We took a speaker, which was maybe a bit extreme, um not lightweight. ah So that was like, you know, you playing music um was really good or just like, I don't know, just chatting. Sometimes we would just go into our own little worlds, you know, of like dealing dealing with whatever we were dealing with.
01:10:44
Speaker
um But... Yeah, I guess just mostly like trying to block out the pain, knowing that it wasn't like a knowing that I wasn't, you know, damaging myself in any way. It was that easier to kind of just block it out. But there was a moment, I think it was the second day when we were coming down to this town called Orsier and like I was in like, it was like I was in tears like from just like the pain ah in my ITB.
01:11:11
Speaker
But as we went on, know, I guess like everything starts to hurt and you're so tired that it's just just all becomes one pain yeah it's yeah i wouldn't say you're selling it to me um but i mean this isn't like hopefully i won't have this same itv pen this year i'm working hard on my glutes going to shine not make that happen but yeah and i guess like at night as well like there's just things like you know it's just like one big kind of like
01:11:43
Speaker
adventure into the unknown. So there are things that are happening all the time that are taking your mind away from how painful it is, especially like when we became, and you know, like at night, like without, without sleeping, like definitely hallucinating and that kind of like hallucinogenic state kind of like, you i you know, I wasn't feeling pain when I was, when I was there, like, and then Yeah, like at other times in the race, like especially in the second half when we started to like get competitive, we were like focused on where the other teams were and like what was our strategy and how we were going to like put some space between us and them. yeah like Yeah, it's always like things that are taking your mind away from the pain, I guess.
01:12:26
Speaker
through From the point that you kind of started going bit more competitive with it and and trying to see where you guys could finish up. What was the rest of the race like at that point? Because you're obviously so far in sleep deprived, hallucinating, but still able to consciously be pushing.
01:12:43
Speaker
It feels like an an interesting blend of of kind of thought processes to have to manage. Yeah, definitely. So, like, I think it was, yeah, around around halfway through the race. I mean, after the first day, we were, like, in, I think, seventh place.
01:12:58
Speaker
And then the first night, we were deliberating on whether or not to sleep. We had some advice, don't sleep, because you won't, you'll be, like, too, have too much adrenaline, um you'll be too psyched, and you won't sleep.
01:13:09
Speaker
But we got there, it was, like, five in the morning to this hut. um So there's, like, you go through the route itself, it's, like, unsupported, but you there the track goes through high mountain refuges and they're all set up ready to go to like offer you a bed at any time and you're able to eat food.
01:13:29
Speaker
um Okay. so that's like, so i's suppose, kind of the aid stations. um And so, yeah, that first night we we were kind of, we were like we were close to the like top. We were like maybe coming seventh or something. We were like deliberating on whether or not to sleep. And some of the guys who were like,
01:13:48
Speaker
behind and in front of us, like, pushed through the next spot. And we like, nah, let's let's sleep. It'll be better for us in the long term, which in the end was a good call. um So, yeah, then we were yo-yoing with, like, these ah so these Belgian guys and these Chinese guys for, like, most and these Austrian guys for, like, most of the first kind of couple of days.
01:14:10
Speaker
And then we figured out that we were sort of, like, in – third, fourth place. Oh, no, late like maybe a bit back, like fourth or fifth, sixth place, um about halfway through. and we're like, all right, like let's kind of get a little bit more serious now.
01:14:27
Speaker
And not that we maybe like, yeah, went fast. We were just more conscious of like taking less time when we were we would go into like we would eat, we would sleep, we would get out. would be just trying to be more efficient.
01:14:40
Speaker
Yeah. um And it was – I suppose like, yeah, kind of like from that two and a half days where we were really like, we had like these Belgian guys behind us and we were okay, we need a push.
01:14:55
Speaker
Then we didn't see them again. And then it was like us and these Chinese guys that we kept yo-yoing with and we came became such good mates with them. It was so fun. Um, like not really like they weren't speaking like great English, but like, we were just like, you know, this camaraderie because it's not a race, like technically it's an adventure.
01:15:11
Speaker
So you're like racing these people, but it's not really racing. Like it's, it's yeah. We had such a good time with those guys. Um, but like, so on the, um, you know, the UTMB live app, you see, you can see like where people are in the dots and whatever.
01:15:28
Speaker
So we had this WhatsApp with our family, like our extended family, like our grandma, our uncles and whatever. And our uncle's like a like mathematician. And so he was like fully getting into the stats and he's like, okay, guys, you've been going this many kilometers an hour from like the last checkpoint to the next one.
01:15:45
Speaker
The Chinese guys are slowing down compared to you. The Austrians in front are slowing down. So we were like getting all this information. It's like, okay, let's go, let's go. um And I think we've got to Cormier.
01:15:56
Speaker
but So then like we passed, there's a couple of teams in front of us. We heard that like one of them had dropped out and we passed these French guys one night and they just looked totally spent.
01:16:07
Speaker
Like, okay, like we're just like slowly making our way up in the field. And then all of a sudden we were like third, fourth, um with these Chinese guys. And on the, like, second last night in Cormier, came into Cormier and then, like, had this really kind of steep technical via ferrata coming out of Cormier. And previous to that, as I said, we were yo-yoing with these Chinese guys and, like, Charlie and I were really good on the technical terrain.
01:16:34
Speaker
And those guys were, like, really good on the kind of, like, more runnable stuff. So out of Cormier, it was, like, a really technical VK, like, basically a via ferrata like i can't remember like you know over a thousand meters of like via ferrata like heading up like really technical and we were like all right this is our chance like let's put some space on these guys um and so we just like boosted like all that night we were just like it was like we were going hell for leather we had a bungee like we were trying to in the schema races you know like people have the bungee to like put on the harness and like bring the slower person up
01:17:14
Speaker
So we like wanted to do that, but we had us so like a ah like um ah rigid climbing sling. So we're like, all right, let's the bungee in the middle of the night.
01:17:25
Speaker
Charlie puts it on. He's carrying me up the hill. yeah But it did not work. But, yeah, over that night we just like went for it um and we like had like a 10-minute trail nap and we were just like absolutely blasting.
01:17:40
Speaker
And then we didn't see those guys again. um so And then we were like, there was this Austrian team in front of us and over the last day we were just kind of like making like making headway on them, like slowly, slowly, slowly kind of making gains. And unfortunately they end up finishing I think three hours ahead of us.
01:18:02
Speaker
But had the race been a bit longer, maybe we could have caught them because ah like over the last, yeah, two days we were like, almost getting faster and faster. And I was looking at our, like, um like the data from our race last year.
01:18:17
Speaker
and it was interesting to see like the, the van. So like the, I suppose, like meters per hour on the climbs from the yeah ah the first half and the second half of the race.
01:18:29
Speaker
And there wasn't much of a difference. Like we were maintaining the same pace from the start to the end. um There was like a little bit of us slowing down, like in the sort of like the last, like the last push into Chamonix, but like we were really able to like keep moving really like at a, at a pretty similar pace, like at the end of the race as compared to the start.
01:18:54
Speaker
So, yeah. Yeah. Wow. It's, I've got the results up here and you ended up just shy of eight hours ahead of the Chinese team. So it's yeah it's quite an amazing gap just hearing you talk about it. It's also ridiculous that I'm looking at 114 hours.
01:19:11
Speaker
Yeah. so lot We loved those guys. That was so good. But i yeah, so I think like after we, think they ended up sleeping um because after Cormier, it was like a big, it was like a very, very technical day.
01:19:26
Speaker
And that really actually got us as well. Like we, yeah, it took us a lot longer in that period than we thought. And that's like the part where they rerouted like after the first five or first four teams, they rerouted that part of the course for the rest of the people.
01:19:42
Speaker
But yeah, i think the Chinese guys ended up um taking a bit of time to sleep in Le Contamines, which is like the last kind of town before we pushed um up and over the hill down into Chamonix.
01:19:54
Speaker
So, yeah, but we did put quite a bit of time on them. We were running scared, you know. No, it'd be very satisfying. Hearing you talk about that, obviously the scale of the adventure is one thing and it sounds epic. And I can imagine you saw some just incredible places and scenery and you learn a lot about yourself in that journey as well. But the thing that stands out to me more is the fact that you did this with Charlie and the relationship that you guys must have, especially when you're saying you didn't end up trying to kill each other out on course at any point.
01:20:25
Speaker
Where has like, i sorry, where that, that relationship you've got with him now doing these adventures, is that something that you guys have always had growing up?
01:20:38
Speaker
um Charlie's eight years younger than me. So, okay yeah, there's quite a gap. um I used to change his nappies. i Go back to that. But no, not necessarily. We were close, of course, growing up because he was a lot younger than me. um But then I went away to boarding school when he was pretty young.
01:21:03
Speaker
I don't know how old he would have been, maybe four or so, four or five. Um, and then there was like a big gap where we didn't like, I was at boarding school and then I was away in Melbourne at uni and he was going through high school. So and there was like a yeah, it wasn't like we weren't that close during that period.
01:21:22
Speaker
Um, but when he finished high school, he kind of took two years and he went like, like went over to Canada, the snowboarding Whistler. And then i went over to Canada. and I was like, okay, like this is my chance to, you know, like have some like reconnect with my bro. Not that we'd like become estranged or anything, but just, you know, like I want, I really wanted to like have a, have an experience with, with Charlie.
01:21:47
Speaker
um And so I went to Canada and we spent two months, we bought a van, Um, we made like a little shitty bed in the back of it and we like slept side by side on, you know, there's a little like blue foam, like tiny mattresses and for like two months cruising around in this shitty van, um going climbing. Like told him to climb and we did some ah really great climbing mountain climbing a mountain biking trip basically.
01:22:12
Speaker
And that's kind of like where we, yeah, like. Reconnected maybe is like a bit too extreme, but like we kind of forged like the bond that we have now um on that trip.
01:22:23
Speaker
And then he moved to New Zealand and I went over for it like I think two or three times to go climbing. And then when I came to Chamonix, I was like, all right, Charlie, come visit me for the summer. And in my mind, i was like, he'll definitely move.
01:22:39
Speaker
And so then, yeah, he's been here the last couple years, which has been so great. Um, yeah. And like, just going and having that experience with him is like so special. A big part of the reason why we like, well, I want to do the race again is, you know, to have that, like have that experience again with him.
01:22:57
Speaker
Um, yeah. And like, as I said, we got that, we got that advice from Manuk, you know, you're going to have like mental break, like, you know, going to have a breakdown. You're going to yell at each other. You're going to have some fights that like get over. It's like, we didn't fight once.
01:23:11
Speaker
Um, We like, yeah, we just had like the most beautiful time out there together. And, you know, it's like kind of that kind of relationship where in the race, like, I think that was like, certainly like one of the advantages that we had is like, we don't have to like talk things through or like, you know, deliberate on certain things that we trust each other, like, and so we had kind of different strengths. I mean,
01:23:42
Speaker
mostly he was like the fastest and the strongest. But, um you know, like it's just like, yeah, our personalities kind of work well together. We're pretty similar people in a way.
01:23:53
Speaker
And, um yeah, I think it just worked really well from a from a team perspective. And, like, the main thing, like, that I – one of the main reasons I wanted to do the PTL was, like, doing it with him and having that experience together. And the fact that we, like, ended up, like, kind of, like,
01:24:11
Speaker
surprising ourselves and doing really well and being competitive was like a cherry on top but yeah yeah i think it's beautiful i i don't have any brothers sisters but i can imagine being able to share that experience and being like you would be stripped so raw and so vulnerable ah but getting to do that with someone that's so close to you would be quite an incredible experience and evidently enough that you want to come back and do it again so yeah it's um exactly Yeah, just reading reading your write-ups about it, it was it was was always more that connection, that relationship together that stood out to me.
Sharing Adventures with Brothers
01:24:47
Speaker
So it's nice to hear yeah hear that background to it. And yeah interesting that you guys weren't particularly close growing up just because of that age vocation.
01:24:58
Speaker
Exactly. I mean, we've always been close. like There's always been a closeness, but like we didn't have so many shared experiences yeah through that time. um But it's certainly changed a lot now. Like we live in the same town. We see each other all the time. he's my main climbing partner.
01:25:13
Speaker
um Yeah, we learned to paraglide together. Like we do a lot of things together. So yeah, he's like a a brother and a best mate. That's really, right it's wonderful. It's its yeah its lovely.
01:25:28
Speaker
And we have another brother who's also, you know, also a best mate. He just doesn't live in Chamonix, sadly. been trying to get him too, but no. I did see the comment about his Les Mills classes.
01:25:43
Speaker
Sorry, I knew he existed. Taking the piss of it, you know. Yeah. I'm guessing he's not coming for PTR this year. He's not, sadly. He's getting married in October though, so we're going home for that. But our dad is coming out of the PTL.
01:25:58
Speaker
Yeah, not to not to
Reflecting on Past PTL Experience
01:25:59
Speaker
participate, but just to watch us, yeah. Looking back at PTL from last year, what stands out the most to you now?
01:26:08
Speaker
um
01:26:11
Speaker
Like, what stands out the most? I mean, the thing that I'm most... Like going into the PTL last year, i was most apprehensive about not sleeping for that long.
01:26:22
Speaker
You know, we slept an hour to an hour and a half a day. yeah um So i think it's like seven hours altogether. Yeah. Or something like that. um I think the thing that stands out, the thing that stands out most is just like how much fun it was, like doing that with my brother and getting to like, you know, go in a huge circle around Mont Blanc over some,
01:26:45
Speaker
incredible terrain, seeing parts of the massive that I'd not, like not explored before, uh, getting to do that with my brother. And yeah, like, think,
01:26:59
Speaker
Just the total, like, it's just there a total trip, you know, like a total, like, it was just like five days or four and a half days of just like being in this like total other world.
01:27:11
Speaker
Yeah. um Which is like, yeah, you just share like, you just go on this like, yeah, total trip with Charlie and come back and you're like, no one, like no one will understand. Yeah.
01:27:25
Speaker
Like
Training Strategies and Overcoming Injuries
01:27:26
Speaker
it's like, you know, you go away the holiday or you do something and you're like, no one can ever fully like understand what we just did because it's like this shared thing between us and like the funny things that were all so funny won't be funny to other people or the weird things or the little like the little nuances and things that happen.
01:27:46
Speaker
It's like you had to be there. yeah I can understand that yep and you've obviously already said that you're going back to PTO this year and you've alluded to the fact that you're not going to make the same what you call mistakes in terms of you're going to start it a bit further ahead in the field what's the goal now because you've completed it are you guys trying to see how fast you can go yeah for sure so the plan was to try and um yeah like be competitive and like go for, yeah it's not a race, but try and win or try and like get as, you know, be as good as you can be um really at the pointy end.
01:28:23
Speaker
But then I broke my leg in a ski crash in March. yeah um So literally like 12 weeks before the PTO, I was, I just ran like 30 minutes the first time.
01:28:39
Speaker
he said So that's, going to be an interesting conundrum to see like how how competitive we can be i'm hoping for the best so the goal is still to yeah just go as fast as we can really um and potentially like train a little bit more specifically and strategically Uh, last year it was pretty loose in terms of training. We were like climbing a lot. I mean, we would, you know, spending big days in the mountains and having like big weeks, but it wasn't necessarily like specific PTL training.
01:29:18
Speaker
Like I did a lot of like weighted uphill carries, which was great. I didn't train enough like downhill conditioning for sure. Hence the ITB pain. Um, so yeah, just getting a little bit more specific with the training.
01:29:32
Speaker
um our training approach is very, no, not different. Like we do so the same for physical training, but Charlie spent like the weekend before the race last year. He had some mates in town and he was like up till like 4 a.m., like three nights in a row, the weekend before the race. Yeah.
01:29:49
Speaker
I was like, mate, come on, pull your head in. We've got a big race coming up. So hopefully maybe a little different approach for him this time, but we'll see. Maybe that's his thing.
01:30:00
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. that's his That was his um comeback because I got like a little bit cross with him. And I was like, come on, mate, we've sacrificed a lot to this race. And he's like, different approaches. I need to chill out. like Yeah. um So, yeah, the the aim for this year is to really try and like put the foot down and see what we can do.
01:30:21
Speaker
um So it'll be exciting. And like, I think a lot of things will remain the same in terms of like how much we want to sleep. um And a lot of things have to remain the same just by design of the PTL. Like you, you eat when you go through the refuges, like it's hard to carry heaps of food on you.
01:30:42
Speaker
yeah, but I think we're going to like tweak a few things in terms of like how much we carry. Cause like last year, the guys, these two Swiss brothers, they win it. They've won it like five times.
01:30:53
Speaker
Their packs were minuscule. I think they said they weighed like five or six kilos and ours were 10. So like trying to just like, yeah, make a few tweaks in terms of like how much we carry, what we carry.
01:31:08
Speaker
Um, when we like how hard we go at the start. and then just trying to have a proper bungee that works this time so Charlie can pull me up the hills like when we need it.
01:31:19
Speaker
and Yeah. Interesting. One thing that strikes me from talking to you is that this is all about the the adventure, it's the fun, and it's about kind of that play element that we don't really get that much day-to-day life or it's easys it's easy to forego it.
01:31:40
Speaker
But then you're talking about being more structured towards your training. Is that a hard balance for you? Definitely. For sure. Well, I mean, I really love, like, I love training theory and getting into the weeds with training and trying to like optimize training.
01:31:58
Speaker
And I always find myself in like a bit of a ah predicament of like trying to balance that kind of like want to have like a structured training program that's going to be, you know, like I'm going to see like gains week on week or whatever, you know, and versus like, oh, it's a beautiful day. I want to go climbing.
01:32:18
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I find it quite difficult and I, and I oscillate between like yeah, having like great few weeks of like following a training, like a training program pretty well.
01:32:32
Speaker
And then I'll be like, nah, I've got to like, I've got to go and do some stuff in the mountains. me um So yeah, I think it's, it's definitely like the two can't, like don't necessarily always go hand in hand, but you can certainly find like play and fun in structured training as well.
01:32:51
Speaker
And like, I love that kind of dedication to the process and, finding the kind of like the joy and play in any type of workout.
01:33:01
Speaker
like yeah But um yeah, there's certainly like, i'm I would say like, I don't know what the percentage would be, but it's like maybe like 70% sticking to a training program and then the other 30 is like going rogue and having good days in the mountains.
01:33:22
Speaker
Yeah. it's best mine At the moment. It hasn't always been that way. Well, I'd hope right now you're probably a bit more sticking to the plan given it's a return to run.
01:33:34
Speaker
Exactly.
Reflections on Injury Challenges
01:33:36
Speaker
how How have you found the whole injury process? and I think this, I've been had a lot of injuries in the past. Like, like I'm sure so many runners like have.
01:33:49
Speaker
um some in like some more insignificant some pretty significant um this particular injury though it hasn't been the worst injury that I've had it's been maybe like one of the more difficult ones probably because uh it was close like close to the PTL um and also like it was really great mixed climbing season when I um broke my leg and I was really disappointed to be missing out on that and I think it's difficult in Chamonix because it's such a like everybody like a lot of the friendships that you have are activity based friendships and you know everyone's always out and about in the mountains so you're kind of like feeling like you're missing out a lot or you know there's just that element of it feels yeah
01:34:44
Speaker
it's kind of more difficult to swallow. I think like having an injury when you're so used to moving every day. um But at the same time, you know, it's just an injury. And, but you know, I was lucky when I did the knee, like and there was no ligaments damaged. It was just like a, it was a fracture of the tibial plateau, which is like somewhat of a serious injury. was like into the joint, but thankfully it was like a clean break. So I just had to be really careful not to displace it.
01:35:11
Speaker
And, and I guess with an injury, like, especially when like that, it's quite a linear, you know, it's going to heal. It's a bone and then it we'll be back to it.
01:35:23
Speaker
And so just kind of, yeah, like always like with these things, it's like letting yourself feel the feels, but also remembering that it's just an injury. And like, there's so many people, like everything that's going on in the world, there's always like so many people who are in way worse positions than your little broken leg is nothing.
01:35:43
Speaker
Yeah. Um, And so, like, yeah, sometimes it's hard to remember that when you're in it. but And, like, as always with injuries, it's cliche to say it, but, like, often, not always, um but you come out with, you know, something like there's a silver lining in some, you know, whether it's, like, deeper friendships or, you know, you spend time working on other parts of your life or, know, whatever. For me this time it's been,
01:36:13
Speaker
I've just like taken the time to kind of like how have a rest period and really like get stuck into more work and um like find more joy in that part of my life. And yeah, and now it's been three months and I'm back running and yeah, it's great.
01:36:35
Speaker
The leg is good. i don't know if you find the same but for my own return to run it was almost as soon as i started running i forgot how long i hadn't run for exactly and it's all like what injury but yeah exactly yeah well that's good that's good to hear i think it's it does in my experience get easier the more injuries you have to process them and go yep this sucks but i'll get back because you know exactly and like you said bone is bone is more linear which yeah
01:37:05
Speaker
is is is beneficial um but i'm glad to hear that you sort of stayed sane and productive yeah i think the hardest thing is like i've had injuries in the past like you know acl where it's like you know you're on practice for a little bit but then it's sort like you can move whereas this one's on practice for eight weeks and like that just like not i live like in an apartment you know two floors just like the the day-to-day process of getting around is kind of difficult yeah um But yeah, like, as you said, the more injuries you have, the more they're just like a little, you know, they're a blip and you get back to it. And yeah, you lose some fitness, but like, such is life, you know.
01:37:48
Speaker
ah understand. Yeah. it You realize that they are they are somewhat inconsequential or the actual impact they have on your life long term is is relatively small. Exactly. It's nothing in the scheme of life. And then, you know, two days down, two years down the track, you'll think back to the injury and you'll be like, you know, like you won't even remember the impact that it had.
01:38:08
Speaker
You've totally forgotten like what race you missed or what you didn't get to do because you had that injury. Like,
Reviving Australian Adventure Sports Podcast
01:38:14
Speaker
yeah. Yeah. No, I completely agree. um The last thing I had on my list I wanted to talk quickly about was you used to have a podcast yourself.
01:38:22
Speaker
did, yeah. And I'm really curious into what sparked that podcast. And because you we can't listen to it now, but you can say if if if you want to for why. But um just sort of we what the meaning behind it was and what you learned whilst doing it.
01:38:38
Speaker
Yeah. um So I did have a podcast and it was so much fun doing it. So the podcast, I really wanted to sort of like highlight, I listened to a a lot of podcasts myself, um mostly training podcasts, you know, for like different sports, but also like venture adventure podcasts, like you know, climbing, um like adventure, any adventure sports really.
01:39:03
Speaker
um i love like hearing the hearing the stories of the people who are doing these these things. And I just, I love sharing story and I feel like podcast spoken word is a really great medium in which to do that.
01:39:17
Speaker
And I was just like listening to a lot of podcasts, like yeah, consuming a lot of podcasts for a while. And was just like missing, like so much of it was European based or American based and like athletes from those places.
01:39:33
Speaker
And I, I know that there's so many incredible like adventure sports, mountain sports athletes in Australia. and I wanted to hear their stories and I wanted to kind of share their stories.
01:39:45
Speaker
And so I started like just a super short, um, sit like series. um It was, I was like, it was hoping to be longer, but unfortunately the, the production company that was like producing the podcast was no longer able to do it.
01:40:01
Speaker
They went broke, but um it was yeah. An eight part series of sharing stories from like adventure sport athletes in Australia. So like mountaineering, like high altitude mountaineering, um like ultra running, like,
01:40:19
Speaker
ultrakay like ah ultra kayak ultra kayaking um I'm trying to think of the other ones yeah uh like long distance like bike packing these kinds of things and just like sharing the stories of those those humans it was a great thing and I mean I just loved like um as I'm sure you can um relate to just like sitting down with people and hearing hearing about their life and what like what motivates them, what are their values, what kind of brought them, why they do what they do, um what was their background. It was always just super interesting to hear the stories of other humans.
01:41:02
Speaker
Exactly what you said is why I love doing this so much. and it is yeah Because there is there's a very interesting story behind every person, especially people that do this kind of stuff, I find. Exactly, yeah. Have you ever thought about bringing it back just yourself?
01:41:15
Speaker
Yeah, I'd love to. um And then it's just about finding the time because as you know, it's pretty time consuming doing a podcast. Like there's a lot that goes into it that you don't realize when you first start. You're like, oh yeah,
Conclusion and Personal Motivations
01:41:29
Speaker
let's have a podcast, have some conversations with people, it'd be easy.
01:41:31
Speaker
And it's like, oh no, it's a lot of hours like organizing the time, editing Yeah, all of that. Yeah. oh that' it so Wonderful. Well, Millie, given what you've just just said, is there anything that you feel like I haven't asked that you would ask yourself if you were to interview yourself?
01:41:51
Speaker
I don't think so, Jess. I think we've had a pretty extensive conversation. yeah Thanks so much. I've been listening to um the Peak Pursuits podcast for a long time and, i yeah, you're an excellent interviewer. I love ah love the way you ask questions and kind of dive into...
01:42:08
Speaker
like, yeah, people's personalities and backgrounds and you have really interesting angle and things. So yeah, thank you. You're welcome. Thank you very much. i appreciate it. um Okay. Well, yeah, i just I've just looked at the time actually and realized we've been going for nearly an an hour and three quarters.
01:42:24
Speaker
Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed that. It's been great to get to know you and hear your story. It's really interesting. As I said, most people we've had so far really driven by their competitive nature and then that,
01:42:36
Speaker
is the catalyst for all like their interest and where they dive into and and some have been parents and there but yours is ah different approach which i really really enjoy getting to listen to and learn from so thank you very much for your time Thank you, James. It's been a pleasure. There's so many questions that I would love to ask you now, but another No, I will stop the recording before you start doing that.
01:42:58
Speaker
No, thank you so much, Millie. um And the best of luck for PTL. I hope the recovery goes well and you are on that start line. It does does kind of strike me as you're quite good at performing very well, coming in slightly undercooked. So I think this is just a recipe for success for you.
01:43:13
Speaker
I hope that's the case. Thanks, James. I needed that little pep talk. I hope so. we'll see. Well, good luck and we'll speak soon. Thanks so much, James.
01:43:25
Speaker
See ya. Wonderful. for Well, I hope you enjoyed that talk with Millie there. I certainly did. I found it really interesting getting to know a lot more about her history as an entrepreneur through different sports, through women in climate change at the moment, and then obviously her running and her PTL journey. That thing just sounds absolutely immense.
01:43:45
Speaker
I'm very impressed that she's going back again with her brother for this year. If you did like it, please do give us five stars wherever you listen and consider sharing it with somebody that might enjoy the episode as well. It really means a lot to us to know that you are enjoying it out there.
01:44:00
Speaker
Apart from that, thanks so much for listening and we'll catch you next time.