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The Run Testers Podcast | The Marathon Guide
533 Plays2 years ago
In the third episode of The Run Testers Podcast Tom, Nick and Gill talk about marathons, from the training they're doing to the kit they're picking for race day. We also have an exclusive interview with ultra runner and SunGod ambassador Tom Evans, plenty of chat about the latest kit (including the Hoka Mach 5, the Garmin Enduro 2 and the Saucony Triumph 20), plus lots more.
Perfect for that Sunday long run.
To support Kieran on his Danube challenge head over to: https://donate.giveasyoulive.com/fundraising/runtheblue
Big thanks to Fear of Tigers for the killer intro music. You can listen to more of his stuff over at https://www.patreon.com/fearoftigers
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Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Focus
00:00:04
Speaker
Hey Tom here from The Run Testers and welcome to the third of our monthly podcast. In this episode we are going to be talking about all the usual things we talk about, so the running kit that we've been testing, the latest running news and there's going to be a few more running facts because we know that you like the running facts.
00:00:20
Speaker
In this episode we're going to be focusing a little bit more on autumn races. So if you're running a marathon or a half marathon in autumn this podcast may be useful because we're going to be talking about the training that we're doing and the kit that we're planning to use when we do our marathons. So you might get a little bit of insight into the kit that might work for you for your own races in autumn.
Tom Evans on UTMB Preparation
00:00:40
Speaker
We also have an interview with Tom Evans, who will be talking about the various kit that he uses, the training that he does and how he's been preparing for the UTMB, which he's actually doing at the point of publishing this podcast. So we don't know how he's done yet. Um, it's going to be interesting to find out what happens over there in Chamonix. So it's going to be a long one, which is probably perfect for you guys that are doing your long runs at the moment. You need something to keep you interested over those runs. So let's jump in and do the podcast.
Marathon Discussions with Nick & Jill
00:01:17
Speaker
Okay. So we're back with the third run testers podcast. And this is going to be slightly different today because we're going to do a bit more of a focus on marathons. A lot of you listening to the podcast will probably be training for marathons at the moment. So we're going to talk a little bit about the kit. We're going to be using a bit about the training and anything else we can think about that might be useful for your marathon training over the next few weeks.
00:01:38
Speaker
But today I am joined with Nick, who's on all of them so far. And we have a new face or sound on the podcast and that's Jill. Now, Jill, we haven't actually properly introduced you to the listeners yet. Do you want to just give us a little bit of info on who you are?
00:01:58
Speaker
Yeah, I've just snuck up, haven't I? I've just started appearing randomly. I am a marathon lover, basically. I like long distance. I have the same coach as Nick, so we can geek out about training, which is fun. I've got far too many pairs of running shoes already, so it seemed to fit well, but I would test shoes for you. And my day job is working for the BBC.
00:02:18
Speaker
There you go, plenty of info for listeners to work with now. So there you go listeners, that's who Jill is, if the other of you were confused when she pops up in videos. Well, let's start the podcast with the way that we normally do, talking about our training at the moment. Now, Jill, you just mentioned that you and Nick have the same coach and I believe you're both training for, well, Nick, you're doing two marathons, but you're both training for London, is that right?
00:02:41
Speaker
Sort of. Right. So Nick, you're training for Berlin, aren't you? I am, yeah, which is a week before London and then I'm going to run London. I mean, I'll coach Andy. I don't think he's delighted I'm doing that, but he's signed off about a while ago because I don't ever want to miss a London because it's local, isn't it?
00:03:00
Speaker
Exactly. And so I'm training for Valencia, which is quite a long time after London. But I'm also running London and basically persuaded our coach Andy that it was fine as well. And Nick is unbeknown to him pacing me at London, regardless of how you do in Berlin. And so I mean, do we want to drop the bombshell about what Andy's plans are for us now?
00:03:21
Speaker
I was telling Andy, you won't know this at all. Actually, we don't know so, but Andy doesn't really give your marathon target to quite near the race. So as the Andy veteran, I get all the questions from all the people who haven't run a marathon before. Well, when is he going to tell me how fast I'm running? It's like, well, he won't, basically, I'm afraid, until he was quite near the time. But yeah, he'll give you the information at some point. Oh, you're getting me through halfway at 1.30 and then we're winding up from there, apparently. Oh, he loves to wind up. So there we go.
00:03:49
Speaker
That'd be fine. I could probably do that. So don't overdo it in Berlin. I'll ease off. No PB's, not allowed. Nick, what's your aim for Berlin?
00:03:59
Speaker
Well, I haven't got it exactly from Andy yet, but I personally would just like a PV. I'd probably be going out. I think I'm just gonna go on pace and try and run under 330 per K at a reasonably comfortable level, hopefully for quite a long time and see. That's what I deal with doing in London. And I had a bit of a weird thing in the last 10 K there. So I'm hoping I'll carry it all the way through and get like a 226, 227 with a bit of a speed up. I'm also doing Valencia now, by the way. I've got my place for the waiting list. So that's my name.
00:04:26
Speaker
I think you might be doing too many marathons. Well, what are you doing? The VLENCH is quite a long way off London. And how about you, Jill? What sort of ballpark are you aiming for at, well, London or Valencia?
00:04:37
Speaker
So London, just anything under three, I guess it's kind of a sort of a long, hard training run, I think. Valencia, I'm like a PB. My current is 2.53, 22. So I mean, really, I'd like to upgrade that to a two, something beginning with a two, four. But that's, you know, we like to stretch goals, right?
00:04:59
Speaker
So yeah, 249, 59 would be my ideal. Well, not my ideal. I mean, faster than that would be my ideal, but yeah. Of course it's maths and I've done Valencia, but I haven't done Berlin yet. Have you not done Valencia yet, Jill? I've done Valencia and Berlin before. I would say
00:05:19
Speaker
think Valencia is maybe a faster course just because it's wider and yeah I don't know Berlin obviously is super flat, however flat a marathon you'll always find an incline somewhere so that there is some bits where you feel like you're going uphill
00:05:34
Speaker
I just think Berlin as a city is wonderful, but there's not that much on the route to lift you out if you're having any kind of struggles. Whereas Valencia, there are moments where you can kind of have something to lighten your mind. But if you're having a really good day at Berlin, it's a perfect place to dial in and get it going.
00:05:54
Speaker
I just made a nice time at a bar on the beach with Nick. That was lovely. That was my first marathon with Andy Valencia and it was a massive progression run. It was the best I've ever felt in a marathon, I have to say. He started really relaxed and just went through the gears. Lovely. I think we should feel like we've left you out Tom. How's your marathon training?
00:06:16
Speaker
Tough. Tough. Well, I'm still on the Steph 12 one-track club plan and the mileage is really increasing quite a lot at the moment and probably more than I'm ready for. So there's a lot of interval sessions, quite a lot of interval sessions.
00:06:33
Speaker
Sorry, there's a lot of complaining is what there is in the group. I am complaining quite a bit about the training But yeah, no, it's it's going. Well, it's quite difficult to me to I've never followed a plan before so I'm wanting a sub 3 in Chicago
00:06:48
Speaker
But I've got absolutely no idea what pace I'm at. We've been training at RPE for two months, so I don't really know how fast I'm going. I've not really been gauging it. So yeah, I've got a few races coming up, 5k next week, 10k the week after, and then half marathon with Eunuch.
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah, I've convinced Tom to come out to Pleshe half, the big one in Essex, which is also the Essex half marathon champs and my club champs. So even though it's only two weeks before Berlin, I insisted that I was allowed to do it because of my club champs, but I don't think I'll be allowed to actually race it. And if I get into a race with a club colleague, I worry that Andy will basically bitch me forever. Well, just stay away from me. I don't want you coming anywhere near me trying to... I'm coming to you saying something's gone terribly, terribly wrong.
00:07:29
Speaker
Was the hardest thing about the following a plan? Is it sessions itself or the kind of the rigidity of a plan?
00:07:37
Speaker
The bits I find difficult are, in fact, it's not necessarily following our plan, it's following this plan. It's quite strict in terms of what runs I've got to do each day. And I can always do the runs, but I have to sort of balance them around a bit, so sometimes I move them around a little bit. And that causes a problem because that means that they're not quite the best run for the time, because I might have done a long run
00:08:01
Speaker
on Sunday and I have to play around with the run on Monday, so I end up being quite tired for that run. So yeah, I'm not just using a plan. I'm happy with the high mileage, it's just I like to do it around my own time as opposed to strictly following something. So that's the bit I'm struggling with. And the long runs I always struggle with just because I've...
00:08:17
Speaker
a lot of time. I spoke to Tom about this and I was saying, you know, it's the first time he's really followed a strict plan and sessions all the time. The mileage is adding up. So I was hoping maybe I'd get a little bit more respect because I've been doing that for like five years, but he just basically accused me of being a maniac. Yeah, it goes one of two ways, doesn't it? Either people are like, oh my goodness, you're amazing that you do this. This is incredible. Or they just go, you're an idiot. Why are you doing it? That's the one. That's the one.
00:08:45
Speaker
I think I'm quite looking forward to doing this plan and then maybe.
00:08:50
Speaker
Because I've never done a plan before, I can properly work out my next plan that I do for another marathon as opposed to just going in blind. Because I know the way that I like to train now, so I can probably focus on choosing a plan that works for me. I think the really big bit for you will be the next few weeks. When you beat your PBs at all three distances, which is what I expect to happen quite comfortably, I think you'll be a bit more excited about the plan and the plans in general. Well, we'll see. Don't get your hopes up.
00:09:18
Speaker
Alright, I think we've talked about our training plans and I know you're desperately waiting for the first running
Quirky Running Facts & Historical Anecdotes
00:09:24
Speaker
fact. Running facts!
00:09:29
Speaker
So here we go. This is actually given to me by a friend of mine, Andrew Stevens, and he gave me this fact. And I've checked that this fact does exist. It's not just he was in the pub and he came with his own fact. But apparently runners used to drink champagne as an energy drink. And that's back in Victorian times because they thought alcohol was a performance enhancer.
00:09:49
Speaker
One of the Olympic marathons was famous for it, wasn't it? And they took strychnine, rat poison, at the same time, I think. There's a level of knowledge I get from these facts, and I don't delve in too far to that. Not in a couple of sentences. That might be the case. There's one Olympic marathon that reading the history of is like reading the script of like a Will Ferrell movie. And I'm amazed it hasn't been made in a second. There's only one person finished and there was like so many just random things happened in it.
00:10:15
Speaker
It's worth digging out. I can't remember. It's the early 1900s. Is it like 1903 or something, I think? Or not the one that finished at White City? No, it was America. Where it was the reason that it became 26.2. No, no, it was in America. It's utterly... You read it and it is like a cast of characters from an ensemble comedy film. They're all doing ridiculous things, lots of cheating, like Road Runner style. No, what's it called? Wacky Racers.
00:10:42
Speaker
Plus the fact that they weren't allowed to drink or something and it was ridiculously hot, so they all like nearly died or something. Yeah, but it's funny. Yeah, well, there's a second bit of this fact as well, and they apparently also took drugs, heroin and cocaine to enhance their performance. I don't know if that's true. I imagine it probably did enhance their performance, but... That is true. That was one of my, Eddy's former editor's favourite things was about all, pretty much all drugs were prescribed by doctors early on as performance enhancers, including heroin and cocaine and everything.
00:11:11
Speaker
There we go. Inside knowledge on these facts actually for once has some sort of grounding. You could just have a beer marathon and a cider marathon and a wine marathon but not for performance enhancing. No, different reasons.
00:11:24
Speaker
Right, so another one of those shortly, so stay tuned for that.
Kieran's Danube Challenge & European Athletics Highlights
00:11:29
Speaker
And now I suppose we need a bit of an update on Kieran, so Kieran's nearly done. He's nearly finished his Danube challenge. I think he's got, well, when we're at the point of talking now, he has got six days left and he's done, he's done his full, the whole length of the Danube.
00:11:46
Speaker
So yeah, expect next month an interview with him on the podcast to talk through it all, but I also imagine plenty of videos and things coming on. But if you want to find out what's happening in the final
00:11:57
Speaker
few days of the challenge then over to man v miles and also he's raising money for a number of charities so if you i'll put the link in the caption for the video or the podcast episode um but he's raising money for starfish great hearts foundation save the children unicef uk magic breakfast and the fire foundation so get over there and support those charities and kieran
00:12:20
Speaker
I won't talk too much more about Kira now because we'll be talking with him quite a lot when he gets back.
00:12:29
Speaker
Let's talk running news. Now we've got, well, both of you know a lot more than I do about running news. So I won't have a clue about any of these things, but let's just give a bit of a taste, a bit of an overview to the listeners on what is happening in the world of running. Jill, we've had the European athletics champs. Anything interesting going on there?
00:12:50
Speaker
Yep, there was quite a fun finish for the men's marathon. There's a guy called Richard Ringer from Germany who all the commentators had said that the winner was going to be the Israeli Maru Teferi and then he absolutely smashed the final 200 meters and just came storming by which is quite fun. So yeah, two European athletics champs, obviously loads of stories going on there and also Commonwealth before that as well. Interest trainer wise, mainly ASICs on the winning line there.
UTMB Event Coverage & Running Mechanics
00:13:17
Speaker
There is UTMB going on at the moment as well.
00:13:20
Speaker
Oh yes, everyone knows about it. It seems to have gone... I remember...
00:13:24
Speaker
Maybe five, six years ago, UTV was still a little bit of a, you know, the Trail of Runners went out there and you saw a bit about it. But now it's like everyone's there this week. Just constant posts about it. It seems incredible. Including Tom Evans coming up on this very podcast. Including Tom Evans, who is shortly coming up on this podcast. So stay tuned for that as well. Nice exclusive interview with him about his training and his kit. So that should be good. I feel like we're in that Alan Partridge episode where he keeps saying Roger Morse coming.
00:13:51
Speaker
So at UTMB, as I said, I don't know too much about it. Are you keeping track of it all, Jill?
00:13:57
Speaker
I am embarrassingly ill-informed about it tomorrow at the moment, I'm afraid. I think, does the actual main race, I think, kicks off tomorrow? Friday, yeah. Yeah, I saw everyone, I saw Ben Parks and people picking up their kit, their bibs and stuff today, and they were looking ready, so yeah, sounds like it. Mike's out there right now. Yes, he is, yeah. Seems to be enjoying himself. He's not running it, just watching.
00:14:23
Speaker
Just watching with a beer. But yeah, I'd love to go out sometime, but I don't think I'd race and do any races. Either of you have a bit of excitement for taking part in UTMB? No.
00:14:36
Speaker
I can't do... You're saying that because Andy's listening. No, I don't do heights really. I used to live in the pool and did some treks in the Himalayas and it was just scared. It was really beautiful but I was not very happy because I was constantly getting vertigo and I don't think running through the night in those conditions is a good idea. So probably not for me. Jill, you're not interested?
00:14:56
Speaker
Yeah, no, I was for quite a while. I started doing a bit of ultras and stuff. I'm awful at hills, so that's probably not a great idea for me. They have, just with my women's runner particular hat on, they have now allowed for pregnancy recovery deferrals, which they were really strict on not doing before, so that's good. Two years as well, which is quite, I think... Yes. Because one year might not help that much.
00:15:20
Speaker
Not much. Alright, time for another running fact before we move on to the next section. Running outside, at the same pace as if you're on a treadmill, burns more calories due to air resistance.
00:15:40
Speaker
Thoughts on that? It sounds logical. As people always say you should put them at like 0.5 or 1 or 1.5 to simulate air resistance but I find that puts quite a lot of strain in your body in a weird way because you're running on a constant incline. Also someone pointed out to me the other day that actually most treadmills are never going to be completely flat anyway they will always have a slight incline because of the way they're set up.
00:16:00
Speaker
So it's rare to have, so actually you have to have special little shoes to put your treadmill on if you want it to be pancake flat. There you go. I'm full of dull facts. Yeah, I wasn't expecting that insight into treadmills. But it sounds plausible to me, but just very, very minimal to the point where it's almost irrelevant.
00:16:20
Speaker
I can't imagine many people really picking up a lot of extra speed on a treadmill because there's not a little bit of air. I don't trust treadmills if I run good sessions on them. Basically, I don't let myself count them until I do them on the right. I've got a bit of a thing about it where it's just... I'm with you on that one. I don't trust treadmills. See, I think mentally, mentally treadmill is hard, so it's good mental training.
00:16:41
Speaker
Well, unless you put Seinfeld on or something, then it's a bit easier. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the mental system, isn't it? Because you might be, you might actually find it, you really like that mental side of it. You might not like being outside and doing it. So it's sort of your preference. But I think that the way that you actually run on a treadmill is probably certain elements of it that make it easier on various parts of the body. I don't know. That's not a fact.
00:17:05
Speaker
It's hard for niggles, I think, because if you have got a small thing, you're landing in the same way every single time. I think you can exacerbate. Basically, I really like using them, especially in the winter, and when it's night, I don't like running outside in the dark. So I find it easier to thread more, but yeah, I can't do it too much because I especially don't trust the results. All right, well, more of those in a bit. Right, that's it for the intro.
Tom Evans on Race Strategy & Recovery
00:17:32
Speaker
So, Tom Evans, welcome to the Run Testers podcast. You're our first guest on the podcast. Thanks very much for joining us. I'm super excited. Yeah, thank you. Thanks very much for having me. An honor to be the first guest. Perfect. That's exactly what I wanted to hear. Well, you're a man that I think all the listeners will know of very well. You've got many, many achievements under your belt. You've got the UTMB, CCC, the Trail Running World Championships, Western States 100, Tower wearer,
00:18:02
Speaker
is it? I don't know too much about that one. Yeah, good pronunciation yeah. Coastal Challenge Costa Rica. You've also an ambassador for loads of brands including and a very exciting new partnership with SunGod. This just happened. Now we'll talk a little bit more about Kit later on and SunGod but first let's jump in and start to talk about your plans at the moment and where you're at with your running career.
00:18:25
Speaker
So I suppose probably the biggest thing that you've been in the media for in recent months is your injury that happened a while ago. We'll delve into that in a little bit, but for now, because at the time that people have been listening to this, let's talk
00:18:41
Speaker
UTMB because you will, by the time people listen to this, have done the UTMB. That's a scary thought. Well, yeah, I just, I only just realised I could ask you some questions about how you're preparing, but we can, we can delve into that now, but you've actually done the UTMB CCC before. What made you decide to do the full UTMB?
00:19:02
Speaker
Good question. Yeah, I've been fortunate enough to do CCC, which is the 100k distance twice now in 2017, 2018. And yeah, I kind of feel like where I am in my career, I am more excited about the longer races. So for me, the 100 mile distance, it's
00:19:20
Speaker
yes it's still intimidating and there is more scope for things to go wrong but yeah for me it's yeah it makes it more of an adventure i love 100k you can it's gonna sound bad you can kind of get away with yes you've obviously got to do a lot of training but it's for me 10 hours so
00:19:41
Speaker
which is a long time, but I've done training runs in the last block that have been the same time. Yes, they've not been as long, but it's relative. It's all still time on feet. Whereas UTMB is going to take 20 hours. So yeah, it's super exciting. I think for me, yeah, UTMB is a race that even before I started running, it's something I'd heard of and I knew about. And yeah, I think it's just,
00:20:07
Speaker
It is the equivalent of the Super Bowl of trail running, which, yeah, I think is getting to line up against the best ultra trail runners in the world is, yeah, truly, truly exciting. And are you feeling prepared? Yeah, I think so. I sort of should have been more confident. Yes.
00:20:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's no such thing as a perfect build up. It doesn't exist. Could I have run more miles and done more climbing? Yes. But at what cost would that have come? Am I touch wood 100% injury and niggle free? Yes.
00:20:42
Speaker
Am I in a good place mentally? Yes. Am I in a good place physically? Yes. My Garmin says that I am. So I'll listen to that. And I feel good and I'm excited. I'm not burnt out. I've gone into races where I've done too much training and I'm just looking forward to getting it over so it's over. Whereas with this, I'm genuinely super excited about racing and just really, really looking forward to it.
00:21:07
Speaker
Brilliant. And is there a part of the actual course that you've been focusing on mentally? Is there something about it that you're either worried about or excited about?
00:21:18
Speaker
I think a good question. Again, I think, I think for me, there are three different phases of UTMB. So the first three to four hours. So you start at 6pm. The first phase before it gets dark is just carnage. There's people running way too fast and it's just really stressful. You can't get in your stride. There's too many people. You're probably outside of your comfort zone because you want to be with the front group and
00:21:47
Speaker
It's all, you sort of see it in track racing when the group all comes together and that's when people then fall over and things start to go wrong. So yeah, I think there's that phase, which is the first phase, which physically will be the easiest because you'll be the least tired, but mentally will be
00:22:03
Speaker
tough in its own way and then yeah and then just super excited about it getting dark and putting my head torch on and getting through the night I'd spent countless countless nights out whether sort of running or in the military so I am comfortable in the night and it's sort of yeah it's a real adventure and yes the most beautiful parts of the course you go through when it's dark so you don't see but yeah I'm just looking forward to getting into my rhythm there and mentally I know
00:22:31
Speaker
I know I will really really struggle it to put it between like 3am and 5am from yeah that's just when you're most tired and it's the coldest and the darkest but you know that it's going to get better so for me yeah I guess I've been focusing on that and what I'm gonna say to myself when I get there and sort of visualizing getting through that part and yeah and then the the sun then comes up hopefully or
00:22:56
Speaker
at least it gets light, whether there's any sun, who knows. And then, yeah, and then sort of from there, yeah, you're sort of magnetic field just being drawn to Chamonix. So yeah, I think, yeah, it's super exciting and yes, it's not going to be easy. And I know it going to be tough physically and mentally. And I think once you've genuinely accepted that it's not going to be easy, there'll be times where you don't want to be there and your mind will play tricks on you. Once you've accepted that, great.
00:23:26
Speaker
because when it then happens, which it will, you're then prepared for it. Yeah, brilliant. I'm very looking forward to cross checking this interview after you've done it to see what points you did find tricky. Let's chat about injury. This is something that probably most of the people that are listening to this podcast have probably dealt with at some point, but probably not at your level. It was such a debilitating thing for you when it happened.
00:23:54
Speaker
And over the past few months, obviously in the run up to UTMB, you're back, you've sort of dealt with that. What was it like going through that, getting injured? What is essentially the peak of your training?
00:24:10
Speaker
Yeah, it was super tough. Yeah, both mentally and physically, obviously really tough. So yeah, I had surgery. It's now the 17th of August. Now I had my surgery on the 12th of August last year. So just over a year ago now.
00:24:27
Speaker
And yeah I was on crutches for two months and in pain for about the same amount of time and yeah lots of hard work and there'll be points where you couldn't see any progress but then you would let a week happen.
00:24:42
Speaker
and then you'd look back at what you did and you're like oh well I can do so much more so there is progress and I wrote everything down that I did and at points it was really demotivating because you were doing exactly the same as you were doing three four five days ago but you fast forward a month and you look back you're like oh wow I can't believe I'm doing what I'm doing now because a month ago back then it seemed like that was so far away and so out of reach.
00:25:06
Speaker
Yeah. And then mentally, I just had so much time. Like I liked training. I love training and I train. I train a lot. I probably average 25 hours a week of training and we're doing my rehab. I was probably averaging five, six hours a week maximum in the early stages. So you had all of this time and I sort of saw it as this is at the beginning. I saw it as this is time where I'm not training and I'm not running. And then I was being with my sports psychologist.
00:25:35
Speaker
it was a, okay, yes, it is, but don't look at it like that. See, it is, instead of this is time that you should be training, see, this is time that you have got, that you would never normally have. So use it, go do something with it, whether it's within sport or outside of sport. And yeah, and so for me, that was really liberating and just that tiny sort of change of mindset that actually
00:25:59
Speaker
I sort of felt blessed that I had so much free time that I could go and do so much. Yes, it was tough and then you just take small, small steps and follow the advice and listen to your body and do all the little things and the big things then take care of themselves. I was back running
00:26:22
Speaker
pain free and 100% body weight, middle of December. So yeah, it was actually a pretty quick turnaround. And I think for me, it was obviously, yeah, yes, I'm incredibly, a lot of people will think, oh, you're incredibly fortunate to be a professional athlete. You've got the support around you, but
00:26:40
Speaker
Just because you're a professional athlete, it doesn't mean that the support just forms around you and you've got this bubble. I've spent years building this support bubble. I dread to think how many different physios and sports masseurs I've seen until it's taken me to find the right ones. And you then find the right ones. And they might be the best in the world, but if they're not the best in the world for you, then that's not right. So yeah, I was incredibly fortunate. And then I went out to Austria, to Red Bull,
00:27:07
Speaker
So for three weeks, my returns are running and I've been there fairly recently as well. And yeah, it's just working with people who genuinely want the best for you and have got no angle. They just want you back. So yeah, it was nice to sort of pass off some responsibility and see some accountability.
00:27:27
Speaker
which I think, yeah, just mentally let me sort of relax and just keep ticking the boxes, just get it done, just keep going, keep going. And yeah, you'll get there at the end. And yeah, here I am now, 12 months ahead, talking about these 12 months ago, I couldn't walk. Matey, and how does that, I mean, you've been a quite high level athlete from quite a young age. Going through an injury like that, how has it affected your mindset on racing and trading and just life even?
00:27:56
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's just it's just being smarter and not being if if something hurts, it's not going to get better on its own. And I think there's a lot of people who feel something and think, oh, is this is this something or is it something else? Oh, I'm not sure. Take a day off. Just rest.
00:28:16
Speaker
Like if you feel, the quicker something comes on, the quicker it can leave. But if you try and push through it and poke at it and spend hours and hours and hours foam rolling it and prodding it, it's just not going to get any better. Sometimes you've just got to say, and it's that to be able to relax and be like, right, I'm not going to run for three days. Doesn't matter.
00:28:36
Speaker
You're not going to lose, yes, you might feel a bit sluggish when you get back running. You're not going to lose any fitness in three days. You're barely going to lose any fitness in, and this is speaking for, yes, you might lose one or 2%, which if you are racing in the Olympic 1500 meter finals, yes, one, two, 3% a lot. But for an ultra runner or for a social runner, 1% is nothing.
00:29:05
Speaker
well done you're gonna run 12 seconds slower at park run this week because you missed three days of running well it doesn't matter and then you're injury free and running there are so many people who will say oh yeah this is a bit niggly oh this is a bit sore and I've touched wood I haven't had
00:29:25
Speaker
anything like that, like if I did a sort of body check now, I'd genuinely feel 100% and that's either was such a long time where I had pain and I just thought, oh no, I'll get physio on it and I'll ice it and I'll do this on it or whatever.
00:29:42
Speaker
But yeah, sometimes you've just got to embrace it and say like, right, I'm injured. Fine. Once you've said that and once that's done, it's then easy. Whereas just trying to convince yourself that you're not, you then just sort of prolong the whole experience, which is pretty miserable.
00:29:59
Speaker
So would you say that at the point that you've had it, it's actually probably a positive thing in that you've been given opportunity to learn about how to deal with injury and things, but also you've had almost like a second chance to go back and you can carry on doing it at a high level. 100%. I don't see it as failure or anything. I just see it as just the most incredible lesson that I can now learn and have learned and hopefully can try and show people that actually you don't have to
00:30:29
Speaker
you don't have to do everything in this. These sort of run every day streaks people do for a year. It's like, well, it's just not, if you're genuinely a performance athlete, that's just not, it's just not going to help. And actually, yeah, resting is the most important part of training. And whether that's actually taking a full rest day or sometimes if I'm in a high volume block, we might say, okay, well, we're not actually going to take a rest day, but we're going to do run a run on Thursday morning before breakfast. And then we're not going to run until Friday afternoon, Friday evening.
00:30:57
Speaker
So you've had 36 hours of recovery. So you've given yourself a recovery day without taking a day off. And yeah, and it's just if you want to run every day, that's great. But maybe you need to manipulate things like that to give your body that extra bit of extra bit of recovery. And I know this is a sort of a kit podcast, but sleep is just
00:31:18
Speaker
the kit bits of recovery boots and massage guns and things is that that stuff's the tip of the iceberg and actually nail your sleep. Don't worry about the marginal gains, the one percenters and two percenters. Worry about the 20-30 percenters which is sorting your sleep out and yeah that was for me that was huge.
00:31:38
Speaker
Well, that perfectly leads on to my next question, which is about kit.
Gear Talk: Sunglasses & Watches
00:31:42
Speaker
We obviously run testers, we test out so much kit for running and trail running as well. How important, as you sort of mentioned it there, let's ignore the fact that sleeping things are obviously more important, but actually getting your kit right. How important is it for you when you're training and racing? It's super important. I see there are two different factors when you're racing. There are the controllable factors and then there are the uncontrollable factors.
00:32:07
Speaker
with the controllable factors, which is your kit, I can choose what I'm going to wear. So then you then take 100% responsibility for your kit, for things being the right size or being the right material and fitting. And yeah, and that might take time. You might have to test lots of different bits of kit, but
00:32:27
Speaker
you're able to take 100% responsibility for that. So yeah I think it's super important and what works for one person may not work for another person and yeah it does take time but there's a lot of info out there and the key thing is just try until you find something that you like and then something that works for you and
00:32:47
Speaker
yeah then use that rather than thinking oh well this person uses this so I'm going to use it because it's great well no listen to what I'm saying take the advice but go try it and I would like I'm a genuine bloke that I'm not going to say oh yeah use this it's great and have a sort of backhand sort of what of cash given to me like that just doesn't
00:33:13
Speaker
One, I don't think it happens. Two, if it did happen, I would never do it because I genuinely, the stuff that I say that I use and I use, I genuinely use. And I'm a performance driven athlete and I use it for the performance. And yes, I've got some great kit sponsors and everything, which is amazing. But if I wasn't sponsored by them, I'd be buying their products anyway.
00:33:37
Speaker
Cool. Well, I've got a couple of questions on the exact kit you use, but let's talk SunGod. You're obviously running in a lot of places that it's sunny. You need to have sunglasses. Why SunGod? What are you using those for? Yeah, I think I've sort of been around the houses on sort of all of different glasses and
00:33:57
Speaker
Yeah and I think for me the two biggest important things for sunglasses in a performance way is one how they fit and how comfortable they are and two the lenses.
00:34:14
Speaker
So with SunGod, if we start with the fit ends, so I always say the ultras, for example, which is what I'm wearing. For me, the fit is perfect, super lightweight frame, sits really nicely on my face. You almost don't know that you're wearing them. And then, which is exactly how it should feel. It's an, it wants to be an extension of your body. And then the lenses, just the lens,
00:34:36
Speaker
When I am tired and I'm going down a descent after running for eight, nine, 20 hours, you want to be able to see properly. And for me, if you can get any help by doing that, that is huge.
00:34:53
Speaker
And for me, with the Sound God lenses, it is like the sort of clarity that you get from them is genuinely second to none. And I've run a lot of different glasses. And just for me, it's just an absolute game changer that yes, are they going to help me run a quicker
00:35:14
Speaker
5k on the road maybe maybe not but for me as an ultra distance runner Just an absolute game change that I have so much more confidence. I then have to I'm then stressing less because I can see better and then You end up running being able to run way more relaxed, which is yeah gonna be way better for you So yeah for me, it's just an absolute game changer
00:35:38
Speaker
Even if I do a part-run in a pair of sunglasses that just don't feel quite right on the eyes, like the lighting isn't quite right, I can find it so annoying just for that short distance. So for you doing UTMB, it's just got to be perfect, isn't it? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So no, I am incredibly fortunate. And yeah, it's been a really cool journey so far with the team. And yeah, sort of watch the space for some very cool stuff coming in the pipeline soon.
00:36:05
Speaker
And shoes, what have you decided to use for the race? Do you know? Top secret, top secret. Yes, I do know. I do know, so I'm an Adidas Tarex athlete and I was in the early designing stages of the Speed Ultra, here's one I made earlier, which is this shoe, which was released properly in 2019. But yeah, I'm wearing a shoe that is in development at the moment and have been working hand in hand with
00:36:32
Speaker
the sort of performance team at Adidas TerraX for this shoot. I raced it in Madeira and I've done a lot of training in it. And yeah, it's just, yeah, it's very, I can't say too much, but yeah. Look forward to seeing your social posts to find out what exactly it is. Yeah, exactly. And if you look through my social posts, you will see some close-ups of it. So, yeah. Very exciting. I just can't, I can't talk too much about it.
00:36:59
Speaker
Well, we'll talk to you about that a little bit more in future. Okay, let's talk tech.
00:37:03
Speaker
your watch. How important is your running watch for you in both training and your racing? It was super important. And yeah, I've been lucky enough to be a Garmin athlete for a couple of years. I sort of, and I'd used Garmin before and I was sort of always using the Forerunner series. And then when I then got into longer distances, I then started using the Fennec series. And then now I've been using the Enduro now for a couple of weeks. I have not charged it and it has still got 45 hours left on it. Oh, that'll do you.
00:37:34
Speaker
The tech is super important. I think for me with Enduro, key features without doing your sales, which are things that are genuinely useful for me. There's a lot of tech on it that I will never use, but some people will find really useful. For me, the battery life is a game changer. I don't have to worry about charging it, charge it once a month, great, easy.
00:37:57
Speaker
the climb pro is just an absolute game changer especially in the mountains where it's dark you don't know how much longer you've got cool i've got another 4k and a thousand meters of climbing i say easy not easy but at least you know i'd rather know than not know
00:38:14
Speaker
And yeah, it just helps keep you safe and it is that genuinely that companion. And yeah, it's then got all the standard Garmin things that you would expect, sort of maps and routing and navigation and monitoring your sleep and all of that stuff is great. But for me, similar with SunGoddit, is it fit for purpose? Yes. Is it comfortable and do I know it's on my wrist?
00:38:35
Speaker
yes it's comfortable, no I don't know it's on my wrist, super lightweight, it's just an incredible watch that I can't imagine, I almost feel like Garmin have shot themselves in the foot slightly because once you have this watch you just don't need another one, like what more
00:38:52
Speaker
could you want and you compare it to sort of apple when they were releasing phones sort of art but this time it's uh we'll put a camera on the this good camera and you can have it with this and then next time it's uh okay well we've upgraded the camera and now i'm like i just can't i just can't see what needs could ever possibly need is be upgraded which i think is a yeah is a huge compliment
00:39:16
Speaker
Well, you're not alone. The Enduro's got quite a few fans in their untesters. So, yeah, we're big fans of those watches. OK, and then just last bit on U10B, how are you fueling for it during the race? Do you have a job plan set up to carry you through it? Yeah, so we've been working and developing on a slightly higher carbohydrate plan than
00:39:42
Speaker
what used to science used to say are sort of about 70 grams of carbs now and we're sort of working more of 90 to 100 grams of carbohydrate per hour. And yeah, I sort of my predominant fueling is with Morton. Yeah, Morton sort of the carbohydrate and then Red Bull for sort of the caffeine. And for me, yeah, it's incredibly important to get
00:40:03
Speaker
sort of the combination of carbohydrate and caffeine, right? So Amy's take in and around 100 grams of carbs and that'll be a mixture of balls, drinks, gels, bars, and as well as some real food. I have a meal when I get to call my err at sort of early hours of the morning, just something hot. What it is is some slightly TBC but um
00:40:24
Speaker
it'll be something particularly boring, but at least it'll be hot. And yeah, and then just using a fairly aggressive caffeine strategy during the race, especially during, probably starting at about midnight to get me through the stage that I will find the most miserable. And then it will then, one, it will sort of give me that sort of mental alertness, but then also just that a bit more pop in your step and
00:40:49
Speaker
There's a lot of sort of semi-technical descents that you need to be aware for and you need your reaction time to be a bit quicker. And for me, that's what that's what we're coughing. That's what the Red Bull does. So, yeah, pretty simple. Nothing. No rocket science, just rocket fuel. And yes, just it's like a it's like a big picnic.
00:41:08
Speaker
Well, it sounds like you've got it all sorted. Let's talk just finally a little bit about plans coming up. There was a point in the past couple of years where you were actually focusing on road marathons. You were looking at Tokyo, but then obviously injury happened. Is that something that you might go back to or have you got a set guide and you're just going for these sort of UTMB races now?
00:41:31
Speaker
I think never say never. Do I think I'll race on the road again? Yes. Do I think I will aim for Paris 2024? No. But does watching big championship marathons excite me? Yes. So yeah, I think just play it by ear. My big focus, my big goal is the ultra distance trail running. And I want to be, I really want to hit my potential at that. And I don't think you can hit your potential.
00:41:58
Speaker
road marathoning and ultra trail running at the same time. If I was 10 years younger maybe you could do spend a couple of years doing one and then a couple of years doing the other but now sort of I'm sort of in the yeah in this really important phase of my career where I really want to stay settled and yeah see what I can achieve, see what I can achieve there but yeah I'm going to do lots of sort of feel that my recovery from UTMB this year will be
Future Plans & Gear Reviews
00:42:22
Speaker
I would do lots of cycling so yeah maybe a bit of bike racing might be next but yeah we'll see how that goes. Yeah I like setting goals and yeah you've got to listen to your body after these big races and yeah next year will be not a UTMB but a western states year.
00:42:44
Speaker
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining us for the podcast. There's so much information there to go through. And as I say, by the time people are listening to this, you'll have done it. So people will know how you've done in it. We can skip to the bit now. This is Tom's result. But for now, halfway. Good luck in the race. And thank you so much for joining us. Brilliant. Thank you very much. And yeah, keep up the great work at the Rantesters.
00:43:14
Speaker
Okay, guys, into the meat of the podcast, different gear where we talk about kit that we've tested and kit that we're about to test. So let's dive straight in, and I know nothing about this piece of kit, the Garmin Enduro 2. Nick, you've been testing this, haven't you? Big boy. Yeah.
00:43:31
Speaker
yeah it's basically a phoenix 7x plus or phoenix 7x ultra it's got all the same features as the phoenix and the epics it with an even bigger battery basically and then some yellow accents around the side to make a look a bit different to the phoenix it's a it's a nice watch lovely watch i mean i like all the same things i like about it i like all the same things about it as i liked about the phoenix 7x you know big battery great features still prefer the screen on the epics myself but obviously this is going to last so i think it's going to last probably two and a half three weeks even with fairly high mileage weeks and that's
00:44:01
Speaker
Obviously, if you're a triathlete, you'll get through it a lot quicker because once you start cycling, you start rinsing the battery a bit more. But yeah, I think it's another good watch from Garmin. I've had some weird GPS stuff with it, but I'm not sure that's indicative of any underlying problems. I think it's just a couple of random runs where it's had the right GPS track, but slightly offset, which always looks a bit crazy on Strava. So yeah, I mean, there's really nothing new about it. That's the thing. It's an interesting launch from Garmin where we've made a
00:44:27
Speaker
The last Enduro didn't have maps and music and everyone complained. And so they put maps and music on it and gave it all the same features as the Phoenix and made it a little bit more expensive. So it just acts as an extension of that line now, which will be very welcome to people who are running for extremely long times because, you know, in GPS only mode, it can last 150 hours in the sun, that kind of thing. So that's great. But if someone runs for marathons and doesn't run longer than three hours, I don't use that very much.
00:44:52
Speaker
so so why would you i interestingly because i never tested the previous enduro and i and my friend asked me what's the difference between the enduro and the enduro too you've just answered that um but i didn't know seems like a strange difference in the functionalities that those those two watches have got and
00:45:07
Speaker
How much is the Enduro 2? It's quite expensive. It's like 930 or 40 and then over a thousand dollars. In the first watch it was very expensive and didn't have maps and music so it was an easy thing to complain about. It lasted very well battery life but you know the Phoenix was cheaper and had maps and music and still lasted pretty well and so it's basically become Garmin's top dog in their range, the new one, by giving it all the features and bigger battery but it's now, even by Phoenix standards, very very expensive so it's
00:45:35
Speaker
You know, it's an acquired test. I mean, you can get an epix for less and then you're getting the screen. So then it's a trade-off of screen versus battery life. But if price, it was the price the same as the Phoenix 7X, it's a superior watch. It's the same watch with more battery, so yeah.
00:45:52
Speaker
Okay. Okay, good. Well, look forward to... Have you done a review of that? You're still doing it? Done a first look. I've got to kill it. That's the problem for the review. I've got to get through the battery at least twice, so that's taken me ages. I'm on a bit of a down week at the moment, so just looking at it, just not moving. I need to run. I need to murder this watch.
00:46:12
Speaker
It's pretty tricky. Nice. Okay. Well, we'll look forward to that one eventually. Okay. And then another big, let's say big launch. It's sort of this floating around for ages, the news of this year, and that's the Nike Pegasus Turbo Next Nature, which has been, I think I've seen sort of leaked pictures of it on Instagram for the past few months, but you really knew that much about it. And it's out now, it's released and we've
00:46:38
Speaker
We've got the shoe and I think people are excited because it was a return of the turbo range, which for many people is one of their favorite shoes that's ever existed. I've done a running it. You've done a running it. Nick, you haven't got this, have you, Jill? No, but I love the turbo. So I'm hopeful. Please tell me it's as good as the turbo.
00:46:58
Speaker
You might want to close your eyes now. It uses recycled ZoomX foam and I'm a bit unclear as to where that recycled foam comes from. I've heard it was on the floor of the factories and stuff like that and they sort of pull it together. It seems they can't get enough ZoomX foam to do that. I don't think for the number of shoes they're probably going to be reducing. Nick, what did you think to it?
00:47:23
Speaker
It's interesting. On paper, it looks amazing. The Pegasus Turbo is back and now it's recycled. It's brilliant. Brilliant news all around. The ride is much firmer and it's less impressive than normal Zumex foam. Obviously, the original Peg Turbo was a combination of foams. It was Zumex with React foam on the bottom to increase your durability, but you felt Zumex underfoot. That's what made it feel so nice and it was lighter.
00:47:44
Speaker
So it's new shoes, not heavy. It's not bad. It pairs this Recycle Zoom X with the SRO2 carrier phone that basically has become the blight of all Nike shoe fans. Every time there's a really exciting shoe comes out, I guess, oh, it's also got this phone in it. Oh, okay. That's a shame. And it's got a, okay, right. I was...
00:47:59
Speaker
Because you and Mike had used it, Tom, and rather just not being very positive, I was winning with quite low expectations. I thought it was a bit bouncier than I expected, and I'm hoping that you can beat a bit of life into that recycle ZoomX over time. I'd say my main concern is that the Peeper-based ZoomX phone is not hard, I don't think, to recycle Peeper in lots of different ways. I don't necessarily know if this is anything that necessary from Nike to recycle all the scraps from their factories and make it like they could just...
00:48:26
Speaker
recycle it in another way. And I don't know, there is a lot of stuff flying around them using the Zumex name to try and sell shoes, but they've got a different feel. And it's, I don't know, it all seems like there's a lot of this recycled Zumex going around and making shoes that don't feel like what people expect. So it's completely just don't, don't call it the Pegasus turbo nature necessarily. Cause it's not really going to be what people are expecting going in. I think that's part of the problem they're going to have here, but you know, it's maybe we'll get better.
00:48:48
Speaker
Do you think, I was gonna say, so do you think it bears anything kind of resemblance of the Pegasus or the Pegasus Turbo? Or is it just that they brought that name out because everyone loved it and so they kind of shoved it in with that group?
00:49:01
Speaker
I think there's very little in common with the original Pegasus Turbo. It doesn't feel like it to me. And I kind of feel that if you're going to release a new version of one of the world's favorite ever shoes that they've been desperate to get for so long, changing the makeup of that shoe and almost redesigning that shoe is a very strange thing to do because
00:49:24
Speaker
it almost suggests that it's a marketing thing over the actual design of the shoe. I think if they released it as a different shoe, it might be less disappointing for some people than calling it the Turbo because imagine a lot of people might buy it and then they'll get it and go, this doesn't feel anything like the Turbo, which isn't a bad thing if it's not the Turbo. You can't sort of use the name and come back with it because it was such a fantastic shoe.
00:49:50
Speaker
I think they've got, there's three shoes that have come out this year, and I think they've got a Zumex all over them, written all over them, everything they use is using Zumex. We've had the Zumfly 5, which was a Zumex core, recycled Zumex core surrounded by a not very good EVA foam, and it was a very heavy shoe that's just, I haven't really enjoyed using at all. And then the Zumex Zagama, the trail shoe, which I think uses fresh Zumex, it's not the recycled stuff, but again, heavily surrounded by another foam, which means it loses that kind of feeling.
00:50:15
Speaker
And then, yeah, the Pegasus Turbo ZoomX, a Zoom nature, which again is recycled stuff and there's more of it and it's clearly a ZoomX mid-cell, but it's recycled stuff. I know there's a lot, you know, they finally bought the ZoomX from another shoe in the Invincible when everyone loved it. And I thought that would have set the tone. I mean, if they really are short of ZoomX, why do they release the biggest cushion shoe in the world using it, the easy shoe?
00:50:36
Speaker
yeah i don't know it's i'm hoping the peg turbo natural will liven up a bit after a few runs and there's a good chance it will because maybe just needs a bit more breaking in this recycle stuff but it all seems a slightly odd strategy of shoes that has resulted in you know people being quite down on nike releases this year when normally this phone would be very exciting thing for everyone to use
00:50:56
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, I just think that if you have the recycled element of it is obviously a nice feature. And at some point, we may all be using recycled shoes in the future. But don't call it the same thing as another shoe that already exists that is different because it takes away from the fact that you've got recycled shoe because yeah.
00:51:13
Speaker
If they just, like all birds released their tree fly wasn't it? And that's a very firm shoe and we talked about that and you can't really use it for longer distance because it's just really firm and not really designed for that. This is better than that. So, you know, it's got a value in it. It's got quite a balance between the sustainability and the performance, but it's just, it's not the turbo, which is my problem basically. I said in the review, I want to love it, but it's just not there for me.
00:51:40
Speaker
Okay, so. Maybe all of you will be very positive. It breaks in at like 20 miles. Well, you'll get to that with your enduro training, won't you? You're going to be the best place for the mileage. Okay, let's dip into another fact. Running facts.
00:52:00
Speaker
To be honest, this one, and I should say this earlier that none of these are verified in any way whatsoever. So they might be utter nonsense. Apparently 20% of Earth's inhabitants don't have a marathon gene. Apparently researchers at Loughborough University said this and they can train all they want, but it won't help them win.
00:52:19
Speaker
I don't know what that means, winning. I feel like we're one step away from you saying, according to boffins. I mean, I just have one question, really, is how do I get the gene testing? Yeah, that would be good, wouldn't it? Yeah, yeah. Should we all stop? Yeah, because otherwise, I mean, what's the point? Well, it's I can't see that actually being
00:52:41
Speaker
True, but the University has got their name against it. Although I don't know if that's verified either. So there we go. Another useful fact for you. They're only up the road. I'll go and ask them if it's fine. Yes, please. Yes, if you could. Just go to reception. Right. Okay. Let's get into the big question of the day. I mean, mentioned at the start of this that we're focusing a little bit more on marathons in this episode. So let's talk marathon shoes.
00:53:06
Speaker
What are we? I know Nick's been struggling with this. It's actually been stressing him out quite a lot. To the point where he's annoying me about it now. He's a bit worried about what to go for. So let's start with Jill. It gives you a bit more time to think, Nick. What shoe are you going for in your auto marathons?
00:53:25
Speaker
hmm well that is a good question. i have a long time to procrastinate about this and london to test it out in. so up until recently i think i would have gone for the new balance fuel cell rc elite. it is now it's not such a clear cut one but i ran in the adidas pro 2 and the alpha fly for a couple of races last year and ended up with some like foot discomfort and i
00:53:53
Speaker
love the Pro 2 for shorter races. But then I went back to the fuel cell because it's just so comfortable. And when I got a brand box fresh pair, it was, I felt like Tigger. So although they're not the lightest, I just felt like I needed that fail safe. But that was because the next percent was still quite expensive at that point. Now we've had the Saucony Pro 3, Endorphin Pro 3, and obviously the Nike next percent they apply are cheaper.
00:54:22
Speaker
So, that has thrown a whole load of problems into the mix. I thought your answer was going to be simple, so I went to you first. Yeah, I know, I'm sorry, I know, I know. Promised, so the vapor fly next percent just feels like if all else fails, that one is always going to be a gimme on the day. It's always going to work.
00:54:45
Speaker
you're not going to get discomfort like you might do in some of the other ones other than the Sorgony. The Sorgony is probably the closest to that, I guess, these days, which I was surprised about when we tested it. But I think if I was ever dithering, I think I'd still probably just about, if they're still of the good price, then the Nike next percent may fly too. It would probably be what I'd just be like, I'm just going to go back to that.
00:55:10
Speaker
the problem. Everyone says it's a good record of Nike now. Everyone just goes, oh, it just really comes to it. Gut check. One caveat. If, if I could get hold of a fair of 4% in my size, I would absolutely just go for this. I still think they're the best. Sorry.
00:55:25
Speaker
Amazing. I've never tried those. I think that's an absolute makes the heart grow for me because I've still got some knocking around. I did use them thinking, I'll remember how great these are and they aren't as good as I remember. Sorry, I haven't given you a very clear answer. Nick, go. I'm at the point where
00:55:43
Speaker
Problem is when you review shoes and you talk about a shoe and you say how good it is and you say this is the best one. And there are some shoes like that. And then it comes to your mouth and you go, well, yeah, I do think it's the best one, but I don't necessarily want to use it because I've got a record with something.
00:55:58
Speaker
So yeah, so I was heading into marathon season intending to use one of the Endorphin Pro 3 and the Alpha Fly 2. I think Endorphin Pro 3 was my top pick. I think it just worked really well for me. It's really lightweight. It's a bit more cushion than the Vapor Fly and I think I was going to basically use that and then
00:56:16
Speaker
And then, on my birthday, on eBay, a pair of Half-Fly Ones popped up in the blue color I've always wanted, but never got. And they were quite cheap. And I just, they're brand new, and I bought them. They're with the eBay authenticators now to make sure I'm not getting scanned. And I wanted to use those, because even though I don't think, you know, all chips are down, I'm not sure they're actually as good as the new breed of shoes, the Half-Fly Ones. But I ran my 229 in them. I had a good run in London in them before I had some weird stuff unrelated to shoes that stopped me. You know, I hit a kind of weird wall towards the end.
00:56:46
Speaker
I think, even though I wouldn't advise people to do this, I might just use the Outflow 1 again because they're my favourite colour. And because I've got Valentina, I've got two shots. I think it's going to be Outflow 1 for one and the Endorphin Pro 3 for the other probably. Good log answer. But that will all change by the time this podcast is released. We're not going to discuss it again next month.
00:57:04
Speaker
I've also done a 22, I've done a 20 and a 24 miler in the Half-Life 2, both of which went really well. And the second one, I was absolutely out. I was like not feeling great. And I, it just dragged me through at some quite good pace towards the end. I thought, this is great. Brilliant. She should use this, but not gonna.
00:57:19
Speaker
The shade, so much in the mind, so much. Yeah, I actually think if any, if the Adorpha Pro 3 or the Alpha 2 came in that shade of blue, probably be using them, but I think at this stage you just got to go and make your daughter feel good, so. I'm obsessed with light blue. Quick question for you then on the Alpha Fly 2, because this goes on to my choice of shoe. Is the Alpha Fly 2, does it have the arch fit issue?
00:57:44
Speaker
It's not as bad. It is still a bit like that. Basically, they made the Alpha 2 more accessible. The reason why I think it is an improvement overall is that it's wider, it's more accessible, it's got a higher drop, and I think it will work for more people. But because I already like the original, and the new one's a bit heavier, and it doesn't come in blue, I'm just going to go back to the original, I think. But yeah, it's still got a high arch. It's part of the design that you almost force you into a slightly better position when you're tight. But it's not as noticeable, certainly, in the new version.
00:58:14
Speaker
And it's also just way too expensive. I basically think the other two, as much as I think it's an amazing shoe, and maybe the fastest in the straight line marathon you'll ever come across, I would probably say no one should buy it, because it's 280 quid, and there are shoes that are basically as good, if not better for you, for well under half that. You can get the, like I got the Half-Life eBay for 100 quid. Don't go on eBay all the time, it's a bit risky, but you can get like the Vaporfly for like 120, 130, and yeah, I think it's very hard to sell the new Half-Life in that market condition. Okay. How about you, Tom?
00:58:44
Speaker
Easy answer. So I could do it off in Pro 3. Done. Next section. Unless I get hold of the Alpha Fly 2 and I like it. I went out for a run at an interval session yesterday and I picked up my Alpha Flies and put them on. And I felt them pressing against my arch, which I remember from Bill Bow was a bit of a scary moment when I did about 5K. And it's the first time I'd worn those Alpha Flies. It's a testament to the Alpha Fly that they were hurting you and they fell apart during the run and you still peeve quite comfortably.
00:59:12
Speaker
Yeah, but I don't want to risk that again. So I think I'm just going to go suck on your door from pro three because I'm absolutely loving them for any run that I'm using for at the moment. Yeah, I've said it before in the review, what I like about them is that Soggy's not overcomplicated things. They haven't got like a shorter distance racing shoe and a longer distance racing shoe and they're not weirdly heavy or not because they're just, this is the best racing shoe. It's perfect for all distances. Go and use it. And it does work really well. Okay, so we'll do this as a quick one then, because we probably don't need so much discussion around it. But what are you going to wear for your marathon, Jill?
00:59:42
Speaker
I only have one watch, I'm afraid, which is the Garmin Vivo Active 3. It's not the best watch. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but it's the only one I have. Not the best watch, but a very easy answer. I like that. Nick's probably going to talk about 14 watches now. What's it easy? It's going to have to be enjoyed because you still tested it.
01:00:00
Speaker
Well, if I can't take the Enduro off, I'll be lugging it round Berlin. But no, the Epix 2 is my watch. And if I take music, I might put on another watch just for the music because I'm like, Jill, I have way too many watches and I feel like a real Michael. Well, I can't use the word on the podcast. I don't think we've got an explicit rating. Well, I'm glad Mike's not on this one because he would have been going on for ages. I think he's testing about 12 watches at the moment. Always, yeah. Yeah. I'm going for 955. I really, really like the 955 at the moment. Yeah. And it's gone and calls it back before then.
01:00:29
Speaker
I'm hoping not. I might test, I might actually put some music on it this time. And then just a quick overview, a couple of things we've covered on the channel recently. Hockum Mach 5, we've done our review of that shoe. Jill, you've not tested Hockum Mach 5, have you? No, we'll do this one. Quick overview, Nick. What do we think about Hockum Mach 5?
01:00:49
Speaker
Yeah, brilliant shoe. Probably the best, I think, non-plated, speedy training and general training shoe at the moment, I'd say. It'd probably be the marathon shoe I'd use when carbon plates get banned. Yes, that's what I was going to ask you. Perfect. Thank you, Tom. You like it as well, don't you? I think it's fun. Yeah, it's one of the best all-rounder shoes I've ever tried. I love running in it. It's fantastic. And then, what's this Puma shoe on here? That's Jill's. Puma XX.
01:01:14
Speaker
I was looking at it thinking that you just put some exit in because you didn't know the rest of the name, you were going to fill it in later.
01:01:24
Speaker
Yeah it's a special design shoe for women supposedly using a last designed specifically for women's feet with narrower heel, more support specifically in the areas that women need it. Unfortunately I really really wanted to like this because of the ethos behind it and that whole thing about you know lots of sports testing has been done on men historically and you know having something that's specifically for women is great. However a I don't know if it's a necessary thing and you know let's not be wasting our time if it's not necessary
01:01:53
Speaker
But also, it's just a really bad shoe, which is really annoying. I've heard, you guys rave on the channel about the Nitro foam. And there is literally no return in this shoe, as far as I can tell. There are a few shoes which I think put me off running. I like to run. This shoe puts me off running. Which sounds, I'm so disappointed at having to say that. It's got this kind of weird thing where it's supposed to be, it's called a firm density rim.
01:02:23
Speaker
that gives proper alignment, so it's basically like guide your feet. But actually what it is, is a big chunk of piece of plastic that goes around the back of your heel that's sort of lightly attached, but probably doesn't actually do that much. It's just enough to be heavy and slightly annoying and looks a bit cyborg-y. It's got an eight millimeter drop, so it's sort of fairly, you know, it's meant to rock you forward, but it doesn't really. Weight-wise, 247 grams, so it's not that light. And, you know, other people are doing women's specific shoes. There's, Altra have been doing it for years, and their shoes are a lot lighter.
01:02:51
Speaker
if you want to go down that route or you've got what is it the ultra boost 22 which wasn't light but people love so i just feel like oh you could have done a lot better you've got some good shoes why have you not done that but in a women's fit
01:03:05
Speaker
Yeah, it does sound like the only bad shoe in the Nitro range. What was I expecting in this? Sorry, it's really bad. I was so excited. Well, we've got to get you in the other ones to see if maybe you just don't like Nitro, but yeah. Maybe. It might have been slightly also affected by the fact that I got that and the Salken Endorphin Pro 3 on the same day. You lift the Endorphin Pro 3 out of the box and you can, you know, you barely feel it. It's so light and you lift the Puma XX out and it is like a brick in comparison.
01:03:34
Speaker
So there may be some of that, but I've tried various runs, I've tried runs with people to take my mind off it, and all I can think of is this shoe is really uncomfortable. I'm not that grumpy about all shoes, I promise.
01:03:51
Speaker
And then Nick, Triumph 20, give me a few lines. What do we think to it? Really good, really good cushion shoe in this kind of, you know, the big premium cushioned category, you know, brand's most expensive shoes often. It's right up there, I think, with the Clissrin 20 and the Invincible, which are one of my favorite cushion shoes. And although I'm not a huge user of them, I think this is, I was, I always say, I was like a Triumph user when I first started running. They ran my first racism and I think they'd serve new runners really well for everything. But yeah, you love them as well, don't you, Tom?
01:04:19
Speaker
I think they're fantastic. Yeah, just about to put up the full review, so that should be it by the time people listen to this podcast. I've gone too, I really like them. Waxing lyrical. Oh, you've got these as well. Oh yeah. Yeah, really good. Just great, you know, long distance, easy running shoes, do exactly what they need to do. Fantastic. Okay, I think I'll do for gear this month.
01:04:44
Speaker
Okay, guys, it's the questions section where we answer questions from listeners or viewers of the channel. And we'd say it's every time we get a lot of questions on the channel. And quite often, we don't get the opportunity to answer them. But a lot of the questions sometimes pop up multiple times because those people want to know it. So this section is designed so that we can answer a lot of those questions in bunk
01:05:07
Speaker
And yeah, tick them off. So if you've got a question, then you can just comment on our videos or send us an email at the runtesters at gmail.com. Okay, so let's jump into the first one. This is from Olly Hughes, friend of mine. He says, what shoe would you pick for running a half marathon? Let's debate this time, Nick.
01:05:26
Speaker
uh wow well well how long have we got any of the lighter carbon shoes would probably of the top ones pro 3 vapor fly 2 alpha fly i'm still i'm still going to be fly i fly too god yes rocks you forward faster really
01:05:43
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. I like the adios. I've won a half marathon, the adios. Focus it on the aggressive rocker. Maybe it's my feet. I've not tried it. Is that the two you're talking about? Yeah, I don't have the three. The three is... I thought the two is much more aggressive on the rocking than less on the comfort. I haven't tried the two. I did feel the rocker on the first one was fairly aggressive. I don't think it's on the three. The three seems a little bit more... Marathon. Marathon focus, yeah. A big boy, the three, a bit too plump. But Takuni Sen actually is a very good marathon cheer.
01:06:11
Speaker
The Takumi Sen, I've done a half marathon there, if you want a light feel. Remember when I said less discussion? So another question, we've got Neha Lavekan, and they're asking, how would you compare the Mach 5 and the Ringcon 3? Am I the only person who's tried these? I haven't used the Ringcon 3.
01:06:29
Speaker
I would say they're quite similar in a lot of ways. They have the same level of, they feel about the same weight. They're both quite conducive to running fast, but the Rincon 3 is a very simple shoe and really the major benefits of it is that it's got this lighter feel to it and chunk of
01:06:47
Speaker
lightish feeding foam, whereas the Hocken Mac 5 just feels propulsive, efficient. It just feels like a fast lightweight race shoe. So, Rincon 3 is a good shoe, but it doesn't compete with the Mac 5 when it comes to faster efforts and even racing. Ray Solas, the happy jogger, he's talking about the Hocken Mac 5 again. He says, just got my pair and using it for my October marathon. Is this a good non-plated marathon shoe? I've kind of covered this already.
01:07:12
Speaker
Yeah, actually, the other thing about the Hokkomak 5, I'd say, is that if you are disappointed by the peg turbo nature, I think the Hokkomak 5 is the best Nike Pegasus turbo replacement on the market. I'd agree. I'd definitely agree. And I reckon if Hokkomak 5 came out at the same time as the peg turbo came out, it would be really, really tough battle. Well, there was a whack around then, but it wasn't as good as the newer one.
01:07:32
Speaker
I need to get me some Mac fives. Fantastic. Okay, I don't think we can answer this one. Give it a go without Mike here. Yodito Nograhaki says a Macefit TRX2 or Huawei GT3 or Garmin Forerunner 255. I have used all those.
01:07:51
Speaker
The 255 is more expensive, it is a better sports watch. I prefer the Amaze fits to the Huawei's, definitely. I think they've got better GPS accuracy, slightly more impressive sports tracking in general. The Huawei has the nicest screen. Neither the Huawei or the Amazfit are actually that smart, despite looking like smartwatches with the AMOLED screen. So they've got nicer screens than the Garmin, obviously, but Garmin probably has just as much. The 255 has music and stuff like that. So yeah, the Garmin's most expensive, the Amazfit's the best value, and I probably wouldn't get the Huawei.
01:08:18
Speaker
Good answer, Nick. Very succinct and neat at the end there. Okay, I've got a big question now, and this isn't from an individual, it's from loads of individuals, but I thought we'd better address it because we get so many questions about it. So this is, it's about shoes, but we get asked a lot, when are we testing the GlideRide 3, the New Balance More V4, and the A6 Nova Bass 3? As soon as we can get hold of them.
01:08:41
Speaker
Yeah, we're in the UK, so we get different release dates. We often get Nike earlier than the US, but they're Novablast 3. I've been talking to Astix about for ages, and I know it's out in the US, but we hopefully will get it in the near future. Yeah, I mean, they're all... I mean, a GlideRide 3, is that out in the UK yet? No, I don't think so. No. So they're all shoes that, especially for me, they're more V4, and the Novablast 3 are shoes that we'll cover a lot of, but yeah, we just can't get hold of them at the moment. As soon as we do,
01:09:11
Speaker
We'll have some stuff off one. We can only run so many miles as well, even with marathon training. We get told off if we run extra.
Nutrition Myths & Traditions in Running
01:09:19
Speaker
Did somebody say they wanted a fact? Yes! Running facts! I think this is the last fact. Ever?
01:09:35
Speaker
Apparently, food scientists at St. Louis University proved that athletes can run faster by eating baked beetroot before they race. Nitrite, nitrite. So something to do with oxygen uptake.
01:09:50
Speaker
Yeah, that's why they, Leicester City used it in their title, apparently, but that's where you have all those beetroot drinks and that. I eat a lot of nitrates because beetroot is nice, but rocket, green leafy veg, all good stuff. I'm not sure it's making much difference. So they're healthy and they have a positive effect, but are they going to make you actually be better just before a race? It depends if you've got the marathon gene, apparently.
01:10:16
Speaker
What they would also do is make you panic when you go to the toilet. Yeah, oh yeah, beetroot was risky on that front. Especially if you get chilli beetroot.
01:10:23
Speaker
Also Tom, a little tip for the future facts. Don't start with apparently in that voice. It really makes me feel like you don't respect your own facts. When I start saying apparently, you know that I've already been questioning it in my own head for a while. But there's a second part to this as well, which is actually another fact, but it's sort of related. Apparently full-time Boston Marathon winner Bill Rogers says his secret to success is eating mayonnaise-covered pizza on race day.
01:10:49
Speaker
Now I like this because that's sort of what I do. When you say on race day, do you mean it's a recovery fuel or for breakfast? I think it's got to be for breakfast because it's secret to success can't really be loads of nice food after after a race. If mayonnaise is quite sugary is it I guess probably all sources seem to be quite sugary.
01:11:12
Speaker
I mean, I guess you've got carbs on your base, haven't you? Mayonnaise is eggs and oil, so good protein, I suppose, and fats. You don't want fats for a marathon, though, do you? Yeah. I'm not sure. I trust Bill Rogers. It's no golly, is it? I imagine the secret of success was really good training and being quite good at running rather than the mayonnaise pizza.
01:11:32
Speaker
Well, you know I'm going to be eating a mayonnaise pizza before Chicago. Well, I'm in Chicago. A bit deep on pizza. The problem with Tom is... Do we think he told that to all his competitors? The problem with Tom as of his marathon tradition is he can't ever do in advance because it's entirely based on what the local specials are in the McDonald's and the city he's running in. So it can really vary very much from city to city. And if I found the perfect McDonald's meal to have before a McDonald's, I would never be able to get it again. Yeah, exactly.
01:12:00
Speaker
Cool, okay, that's the last fact of the week, so I hope you enjoyed that.
Shoe Durability & Stability Comparisons
01:12:04
Speaker
A few more questions. Mac W, what do you think of the life of the Mac 5 versus the Speed 3? Which do you think would last longer? It's hard to judge this because often we don't get a chance to go through shoes. And some people use shoes at different rates. I don't tend to use shoes up.
01:12:19
Speaker
because I have an arrow for I don't put pressure on others. I have my little shuffly stride that probably doesn't put as much impact on the bottom either. So I would think they'd both last me. I mean, the Speed 3 lasted me over 500k, no problems at all. I've been up to about 200 in the Mac in the previous version and no problems at all.
01:12:35
Speaker
Yeah, but then some people, I have a friend who goes through shoes and like 250k reliably because I don't know what it is, maybe doesn't cut his toenails. But yeah, so I don't think there'd be a much difference between them if I'm honest, but the speed would probably last longer because it has a bit more rubber on the outside. That's what I'd say. Okay, there's one for you, Jill. Brandon M says, which do you think is the more stable shoe, Endorphin Pro 3 or the Vaporfly 2? Ooh, Pro 3 probably actually.
01:13:00
Speaker
I'd say that as well. I'd say Pro 3, yeah. Yeah, it feels very stable. I don't think I'd have any concerns cornering hard in the Pro 3, whereas, yeah. Cool. Okay. Then, Fletch, he says he's got 10k race coming up. Which should I wear? Speed 3 or Pro 2? Pro 2. Endorphin Pro 2?
01:13:22
Speaker
I'm assuming, yeah. Yeah, I would use that for 10K myself. I know you don't like it though, Tom, do you? One of the worst 10Ks I've ever done was wearing the Pro 2, and I hated every second of it. I wasn't very fit at the time, but it just felt so firm, just wasn't enjoying it at all. So I would go speed three.
01:13:40
Speaker
Okay, Miracle Warriors, do you feel the Nature Zoom X is more bouncy and softer than the A6 Blast Plus? What's it called? FF Blast Plus. FF Blast? Oh, no, I think the FF Blast is more bouncy. I'd definitely say it, yeah. I'd definitely say FF Blast. I think FF Blast is a really nice bouncy foam. Yeah. The Nature Zoom X.
01:14:01
Speaker
from what we've seen. Unless it breaks in. We're all hoping that'll be breaking. We could change. We'll do an update in the podcast next time if Nick's broken in after 100 miles and it's quite bouncy. Okay, so that'll do for questions for this month.
Upcoming Content & Conclusion
01:14:15
Speaker
What have we got coming up over the next month in the world of Runetester videos?
01:14:21
Speaker
Best Garmin, the big, the epic. I'm still editing it. It's taking a long time. And if there's any negative comments on it, I'm going to cry because it's so much work to edit this. It's trying to find cutaways from watches I haven't seen for two years and stuff like that. So it's nearly there. It's about 35 minutes. Watch every minute. It's all gold.
01:14:39
Speaker
Excellent. And then we also have our favorite kit video. We did this quite a while ago, and this is where each of the run testers picks their favorite kit that they've ever tried. Now, some of those are probably things that they're still using. Some of them are probably things that don't exist anymore, like something like the original like e-peg turbo. So yeah, we'll be going through in that video talking about all of our favorite kit. So that will be something to watch in the next month at some point.
01:15:05
Speaker
Now, if you want to get in touch with us, you can email us at team at the runtesters.com where you can drop us a question that we can answer in a future podcast, or you can get us at the run testers on Instagram and on YouTube at the run testers. Although, presumably, if you're listening to this, you've probably already seen that channel anyway, so that's not going to be news to you. But aside from that, Nick, Jill, thanks for being there. Thanks for having us, Tom, and all your lovely facts.
01:15:32
Speaker
yes well yeah i think i'm gonna drink some champagne yeah good good um and we will uh be back in plenty more videos coming in the next few days so thanks a lot and we'll catch you later bye this episode of the podcast was presented by tom wheatley nick harrish fry and jill bland the podcast was produced by tom wheatley the music is by fear of tigers