Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Have You Hunted With Pack Burros – Shane Weigand – New Mexico Pack Burros
218 Plays9 days ago
This week on the Tricer Podcast, Drew has Shane Weigand from New Mexico Pack Burros. Shane hunts with his burros and uses them to pack out game from the mountains but that’s not all. Shane is also a pack burro racer, yep you read that right, a pack burro racer. There is a circuit of pack burro racers out there who racer with their burros through the wild west. Shane shares his stories of hunting and racing with his burros as well as some very interesting information about how to obtain a burro and how to prepare a burro for the mountains, or the trails for racing.
SHANE WEIGAND – NEW MEXICO PACK BURROS
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/nmpackburros/
Website - https://www.nmpackburros.com
TRICER USA
Website – https://tricerusa.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tricerusa/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tricerusa/
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@tricer6985
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Purpose
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to the Tricer Podcast, where we talk all things hunting, gear, and the great outdoors. Before we begin, let's start things out right and put God first. Lord Jesus, I thank you for Tricer, and I ask that you can use this podcast as a way to bring joy to all of our listeners. We lay Tricer and this podcast at your feet. Amen.
Sheep Show and Burro Racing Intro
00:00:22
Speaker
Dude, where's it coming hot on this one? I just got back from sheep show. My brain is fried. And my buddy Chad told me to have his friend Shane on the podcast because Shane races burros across the deserts of New Mexico. And I'm like, that's the podcast I want to do because I don't want to impart like any knowledge today on like my hunting skills or the
Founding New Mexico Pack of Burros
00:00:43
Speaker
industry. I want a fun laid back burro racing freaking podcast. So Shane, what's up, dude? Tell me about you. Let's just do this thing. What's going hot, bro?
00:00:52
Speaker
Absolutely. So yeah, I'm Shane Wiegand. I'm the, I guess, leader, founder, I don't know, a brainchild behind New Mexico pack of burrows. And we're a group that essentially does really cool back country things with burrows, including running across the mountains. And obviously, you know, hunting and fishing and stuff, we take them, take them up in the back country in the wilderness. But ah yeah, one of the things we do is we go for crazy ultra runs with a burrow. So ah how does one become the leader of a burrow racing tribe? Like what, what, what, I don't understand. Like, so what is, what's, what's, what's strict? What is a burrow? It's not a mule. It's just a donkey. Like the donkeys that I see all over Arizona, is it one of those donkeys? Like what is a burrow? Yeah, good question. So a donkey and burrow, they're the same thing. You know, the the funny joke is always that, you know, a burrow speaks Spanish, right? That's the difference.
Transition to Burros for Packing
00:01:44
Speaker
Um, but it just depends where you're from. Um,
00:01:47
Speaker
and whether you say burrow or donkey. there's There's three sizes of burrows or donkeys. So there's mammoths, which are going to be like the big ones that they use to make mules, um that they'll breed a mammoth jack donkey to a horse mare that'll make a mule. And then you've got standard, which are like the ones that run around Arizona, Southern California yeah um as the standard size burrow. They're just a normal size donkey.
00:02:11
Speaker
and then you've got miniatures which are like the specially bred like little adorable things you see at a pet pet and zoo that are like knee high um those are miniatures so those are kind of the three types of donkeys or burrows that you have so when did you get your first burrow yeah so i was looking so i was looking to get llamas right or goats um so expensive for llamas now dude that is a racket right there stupid it is it is stupid expensive so I was looking at like, you know, hand me down llamas from like, you know, the guy in Craigslist or Facebook that was trying to get rid of one. Um, so I had a, I don't know, it was like 2015 or something. And I had a brutal elk pack out from the Gila here in New Mexico. And I was like, okay, I'm done with this. I need either llamas or goats. And, uh, wasn't really a horse guy at that point or equine person. Uh, so I went and looked at some llamas. They're all kind of like back country crazy. And then goats.
00:03:07
Speaker
Goats just never really kind of hit it off for me. I was like go this isn't gonna work. So I was like, well, I live in New Mexico I was like donkeys and burros I've seen these pictures, you know all over historic New Mexico black and white photos of donkeys and burros carrying stuff around and there was like one blog post um on this tack, you know tack manufacturers website about packing with donkeys and I was like, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna do this and So I found a burrow off Craigslist. um I just met a lady, now my wife, that had quite a bit of horse experience, so I wasn't going completely blind into this. But I bought a donkey for 200 bucks off Craigslist from the South
Discovery and Challenges of Burro Racing
00:03:45
Speaker
Valley of Albuquerque, which, if you're from the Southwest, you know that Albuquerque is super sketch, so this is like the sketchiest of the sketchiest places in Albuquerque.
00:03:53
Speaker
So you bought like a tweaker donkey. ah for last Yeah. Do you trade, do you trade tattoos for it or? that wouldve been better um Yeah. So, so I got this donkey out of somebody's like backyard. Um, and then another one was just from, uh, you know, I want to say old lady down the street, but an old lady down the street that had this donkey that was pretty well trained in jail. Um, and, uh, she's like, yeah, you can just have them and do stuff with him. So,
00:04:20
Speaker
I got these two donkeys. I literally put them in like my half acre backyard for a few months until I found a better place that I could rent. I'm sure your neighbors love that. cause Aren't they obnoxious? um Um, so a little bit. So they'll bray, um, they'll bray first thing in the morning, uh, you know, five 30, whatever sunrise. And that's about it. And then anytime a car comes into the driveway, so if I pull up my pickup, they'll bray. Um, but that's about it. So not much difference than somebody's chickens or something. Okay. Um,
00:04:48
Speaker
So yeah, got these two doggies. And then I found out about the sport called pack bro racing and super got into that. Um, and now I pack and I go over the mountains with them. So these, do you get these two doggies and like, I don't donkeys live like a hundred. They live a long time, right? I mean, yeah, yeah. It's not like, go ahead. No. So, so doggies, uh,
00:05:12
Speaker
That's the cool thing about donkeys, right? I'm trying not to, when we do this podcast, I'm trying not to make a lot of comparisons between llamas and goats and horses, because they're all good. I want i want you to offend, like Mark Lewis says, a good friend of mine. like I want you to just talk about how much llamas suck, and then Lampers loves goats, how much goats suck. i want like cause it's like It is like this tribal thing with all of you guys, where it's like, yeah Donkeys are the best. So yeah does you just described why you use donkeys for doing this stuff. So like um you get these donkeys and they they didn't come, you got it from an old lady. I can't imagine this is a burrow racing pack donkey. This is a donkey in someone's yard that they probably got when they were a kid. Yeah. yeah So, uh, yeah. So the donkeys, I ended up going and doing my first race. So tell you like what a, what a packable race is. Um,
00:05:58
Speaker
And so back in the day, right? So back in back in the 1800s, there are two miners, supposedly, you know this is the legend, two miners struck gold up on the hill at the same time, and they had to race back the town to stake their claim at the you know the claims office, and they took their burrows. So that was the first pack burrow race. In reality, after World War II, none of the young men came back to these mining towns in Colorado and in the Southwest after after World War II. So their economies were just trashed.
00:06:27
Speaker
you know, places like Leadville and Creed, Fairplay, Tombstone, Arizona. Places now that are kind of like thriving tourists and, you know, outdoorsy places, they weren't that. a So they needed something to provide income. They had a bunch of euros and trail running was just kind of starting to be a thing. um So they started off these races specifically in Fairplay and Leadville, Colorado, I think were some of the first in the forties.
00:06:53
Speaker
And, uh, legit races though, like, you know, folks are doing these in, uh, genes in, in, you know, 1950s boots, uh, and running 20 some miles up to this pass and back. So, um, those were the first races since then. It's absolutely exploded, especially in the last few
History and Logistics of Burro Racing
00:07:10
Speaker
years. There's races in New Mexico, Colorado, um, Arizona, California, Tennessee, all over the place. Uh,
00:07:17
Speaker
And essentially what you do is you just trail, you run with your burrow. So think of like your dog on the lead. Same thing. You've got a 15 foot lead rope on the burrow. You have a pack saddle, which carries a gold pan, a pick and a shovel. And that's a throwback. That's a throwback kind of homage to the, to the mining days that started this sport. okay And they're anywhere from five miles all the way to 30 miles. So some of them are straight ultra marathons. Uh, it is the coolest sport you have never heard of.
00:07:46
Speaker
So, I mean, do you just pick up any donkey from the old ladies yard and start running 30 miles from it? or Yeah. So I was going to trying to get it like i was goingnna tell you about my first race. So I get this South Valley donkey and then this old lady's donkey, the old lady's donkey, Cisco. He's this black kind of normal sized donkey. Really great dude. Great with kids. Um, just great packer can do anything, but he's not, he's like 20. He's not going anywhere fast. Um, I got this white donkey on the South Valley. She's pretty fast.
00:08:16
Speaker
And so I decided to race here. So we signed up for a 10 mile race in Creed, Colorado. So but we did about a month and a half of training, which was just you're traveling around the country to do these things. oh You're a real donkey racer. Okay. So you're going to Colorado first race, Colorado. So first race in Colorado, this is, I don't know, 2018 or something. Um, we go to Creed, Colorado, just beautiful mining town.
00:08:38
Speaker
It's a 10 mile course and what the course looks like is it's ah always, the donkey races are always usually a mass start. So you'll have like a hundred teams, a team being one burrow and one runner together and they'll just take off. So gunshot start, you have 100 burrows running down Main Street. And so it's about a three mile flat, two and a half mile flat at about 8,000 feet elevation. So there's already no oxygen.
00:09:05
Speaker
From there, you have like another three mile climb. I guess it'd be two mile straight climb up to like 10 or 11,000 feet and then back down and back to Main Street. So 10 mile race, couple thousand feet of climbing.
00:09:18
Speaker
So me and my bad-ass little burrow, who names Julia, Julia and I take off, we're leading the pack for three miles up to this climb. It is amazing. I'm just like, oh, we're gonna- This is the Craigslist donkey. Yeah, this is a Craigslist seed biscuit. So she is awesome. We are winning this thing. I'm like, oh, this is- This is a, this is a, this is where it's going to be super easy. There's also usually like a big cash prize, like 500, a thousand bucks. I'm like, this is awesome. Like I'm going to have a great time tonight. I'm already planning what I'm going to do that night with the money that I win. yeah And we get to the big uphill section and it gets starts to get real rocky. It's kind of turning from like County road into like a mountainy road. um It's not quite two track yet, but like the rocks are starting to get pretty gnarly.
00:10:01
Speaker
um She lives her whole life in a sand backyard in Albuquerque. Her hooves were like mine and yours feet. Like if we decided to go take off running down a rocky road, they just started to get super super abused, um bruised, and messed up. so and Anyways, we went from first place, I think all the way to, I think there were 70 some, 60 some donkeys in that race. So I think we we ended up second to last um coming into town. So we had 60 some teams pass us in the next seven miles. The only reason I did not get last place is because I didn't know there was a prize for last place. And the lady behind me just kept going slower and slower because she wanted the free pair of shoes that you got for being last ass. So
00:10:47
Speaker
yeah major ego tech to start off my borough racing career. Uh, so really, really cool sport. So that's your first time doing it. Now I assume, are you running the same donkey now, seven years later? Um, so Julia, she's, she's kind of my reserve bro. Uh, my wife runs her a lot. A lot of times we'll have people that are new to the sport, jump in with her. She runs a really, really good, like,
00:11:16
Speaker
1030 11 minute mile. She's got this beautiful slow trot that just keeps on forever and she's got she's got a great amount of heart like she'll she'll push and she'll run with you. Right now I've got a different borough his name is Comet. Two years ago I got him from the Bureau of Land Management's wild horse and borough program so he actually came from western Arizona kind of like the Lake Havasu area. Yep they're everywhere out there. Yeah i have a place I have a place in this lower river in Yuma and they are just donkeys everywhere.
00:11:44
Speaker
Yep, yep. So yeah, he came from kind of thereabouts. ah He is a fast guy. he will um He's really, really fast. He'll take off at a seven minute mile. that oh Yeah, just crazy fast. really What's really cool is, so I've had domestic burrows and I've had BLM wild burrows. My domestic burrow is very cautious around rocks and you know steep downhill stuff.
00:12:09
Speaker
Comet, my BLM bro, he will just, if you want him to, if you, if you ask him to, he will just bail off the side of an embankment and be like, I hope, I hope everything's good. We'll find out. Like he's very much just a, like a kind of just a back country skiing dude. Like we'll figure it out as we go. Um, so that's a lot of fun. Uh, and the other thing is he's a little more timid. So, uh, you know, you go out, you do these races, you're running for hours by yourself out in the middle of nowhere doing these big loops and you come back to town, you know, 18, 19 miles later.
Training and Building Trust with Burros
00:12:39
Speaker
When you come back into town with him, he um sometimes he'll get a a little antsy, a little little anxious because suddenly you're running straight back into a bunch of people again. So when you're running down, which is fair, we're running down Main Street and there's like a thousand people. It's kind of like tour de fancy where you got people lining the streets. um So he can get kind of timid, I guess is the point that I'm making. Okay. So.
00:13:04
Speaker
You're running, I didn't, i'm I'm not even like, I'm starting to grasp this. So you're doing, are you doing like, what is your, are you on the 30, the 30 mile ones now? Uh, yeah, I've done, I've done up to 29 miles. So, um,
00:13:18
Speaker
And what are you guys averaging on that? Like mile? Are you, we're telling your doctors, we're in a seven minute mile. Like that means you're running a seven minute mile. Yeah. So are you doing like a nine minute 30 mile race or what are you doing? Like on this, on these trails? What are you, what are you doing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. Very competitive, competitive times, whether you're with a donkey or not. So what makes a borough race really tough.
00:13:39
Speaker
is the first two miles out of town is ah is a god-awful sprint it is just the gun goes off and you're running you're just running for your life um trying to separate yourself from the pack right like trying to get yourself exactly yep get lined up if that's where you want to be so i mean it's like a race it's like any normal race right there's there's there's a there's a whole there's different waves and you know some folks walk and hike the whole thing but if you want to be part of that first group um yeah the first your first mile, it's not uncommon to be somewhere between five 30 and six 30. You were just all out sprinting. You're trying to put distance between you and the other folks. So you're running five minute miles with a donkey. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. that elevation too right So you're in Leadville, Colorado, which the starting line is 10,000 feet. You're going to go up to 13,000 feet during this race, or I think it's 13 six. Um, as mosquito pass, but, uh,
00:14:31
Speaker
Yeah, so it's just yeah it is it's insane. it's It's a really cool sport. There are some like stupid sports in the Olympics. I would much rather watch donkey racing. like I'm hearing this and I'm like, dude, if we could somehow watch this, it seems like I'd be into this sport.
00:14:46
Speaker
um so You're running that. So like, are you now like a premier donkey racing athlete that it sounds like? I mean, it sounds like you're kind of like up there. You're in in seven minutes, five, five, six minute miles of the donkey. Are you like, are you like what in this very small community? Are you like the dude now or what? I am. I'm not the dude. I'm not the dude. um there is a dude The dude is out of Leadville. He runs a, uh, he's an incredible athlete and he,
00:15:12
Speaker
runs a little bureau called a buttercup and buttercups may be like a 30 some inch donkey, just a teeny little donkey. And that stupid thing keeps kicking all our ass. um I don't know. Literally, literally kicking your asses because that's what you're wrong. All pun intended. Like it is, I don't know how they do it. They're amazing athletes and they're amazing team. So a lot of it's teamwork, right? And so,
00:15:36
Speaker
um You really gotta learn a lot. It's a sport that's not like anything else. Like you can go from from trail running, maybe into triathlon, into some other sports, and there's there's a fair bit of crossover. Beyond the running part of it in burrow racing, that's where the you know the relationship or the the correlation ends. You have to learn how to motivate this animal to run, because if they just the one thing about a donkey is right they're not fight they're not ah on the they not in the flight side of the fight or flight spectrum, like a horse is.
00:16:05
Speaker
Doggy is very cautious, very want to think about things. So if they decide they're not going to want to run the the remaining nine miles of your race, you two are going to walk it out. And, um, you're going to be back at midnight. So yeah, you got to learn animal behavior. You got to learn about what your donkey's motivations are. Trust is a huge deal with them. They're very, um, yeah, big thinking, big thinking animals. So it's important that you spend a lot of time, um, training with them. They get to know your quirks. You get to know their quirks. Um, so you both can like run as a team on, on race day.
Adoption and Economic Impact of Burros
00:16:39
Speaker
Are you bringing like a pannier of like, are you getting water for these animals halfway through this dude? 30 miles, no water.
00:16:45
Speaker
Yeah, so they'll they might in the the longer races trying to think most of the race courses that are over 13 miles have some sort of stream or water crossing or multiple usually multiple ones. They'll sometimes stop and drink.
00:16:58
Speaker
My experience is they they won't. They're incredibly desert adapted animals. They're used to desert. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot going on. um you know people if people People have trouble. People get dehydrated all the time on races, right? We forget to drink the water. So bros, they're like, well, we'll just finish this one out. And then then they'll drink like you know five gallons of water. we They have time to digest it and sit on it. So um no, you don't really carry much other than your own nutrition and hydration for yourself.
00:17:27
Speaker
um You might carry a rain slicker, but no, not much else other than the, you know, the gold pan pick and shovel on their little pack saddle. That's awesome. So now you're working with, I'm curious, I don't know if I want to keep going racing or if I want to go into wild horses and burros because you're actually,
00:17:48
Speaker
Because I have like mixed emotions right about horses, right? like I feel like it's an invasive animal, and we honestly, I feel like we should open them up and kind of take them off the landscape right like as an animal, because you're just destroying the other populations. And I see it like over in Arizona. I see them run. and whatever Wherever horses and deer are or they are, the horses are winning. They're running them off. They're eating all their vegetation. They're running them off the water. They're they're bad for sheep, bad for all that. um But at the same time,
00:18:16
Speaker
like Everyone loves a freaking horse. yeah like It's this weird thing. and it's like this weird and The crazy thing about the horse thing is, like honestly, most of the like conservative hunting people are the people who own these horses as well. like It's like this weird emotion with it.
00:18:29
Speaker
So what are you, like, what are your, I'm curious, your thoughts on the wild burrows, how you got involved with the wild, with the BLM stuff. Like you're actually taking a wild burrow and using it, which is kind of shocking because they are very, I've been around burrows my whole life at the river, wild burrows, and they're not an animal that you're like going up and grabbing. Like they're going to run from you. Like this is, give me some thoughts on this on the whole wild burrow. Yeah. Yeah. So, um,
00:18:55
Speaker
Yeah, it's an interesting coming from my perspective too, because I actually have a degree in wildlife management. So I work for one of the the big wildlife, of big natural resource agencies. So um yeah, and then I'm also involved in like rescuing, you know, some of these BLM um animals and burrows and stuff like that. Yeah. um I think, yeah, I totally agree. They're obviously way overpopulated. I think either side of the debate, the argument, everyone's going to agree that there's weight, there's there there are a ton of animals. Now, how to resolve that?
00:19:23
Speaker
um how to resolve that is that's when the emotions in your, you know, your side or whoever side of it you're on comes into play. I think i think the the adoption process we we've had, if you're not familiar, kind of how the wild horse and burrow program works, at least from the adoption side, um is So you can ah you can adopt, let me think if I can say this correctly, there's I think three different ways that you can get an animal. One, you can adopt one from one of the BLM auctions. So there's online auctions or there's in-person sales um that you can go to. So you can go to, um you know, where the they those ship that they'll ship, you know, 10 boroughs and 50 horses to, you know, someplace in Idaho or Tennessee or Wisconsin, whatever. You can go to one of those local events. You can also do the online stuff.
00:20:14
Speaker
You can also go to um some of their holding facilities and prison facilities. hear about I want to hear about the holding facilities too. when we get yeah yeah yeah sure So you can go to any one of those. You can get a burrow for I think 125 bucks. Then there is they get cheaper the more you get. So for like 75 bucks, you know, you get a couple more. the both Buy one, get one specials. But those are for all ah wild untrained burrows. Like you're getting that thing fresh. um Now is that what your burrow is that you got? Your comment?
00:20:43
Speaker
So i did I went through a different program. I went through what they called the trainer incentive program, the TIP program. So, you know, the the wild birds, that's a lot to take on, especially if you don't have any equine experience. The middle part of that is what they called the trainer incentive program. It's actually going through some changes right now. So I don't know if that name will hold true, but it uses a middle person. So the BLM will ship these wild animals to a trainer. So they'll ship them to, yeah, horse trainer, wherever.
00:21:09
Speaker
um And then you as an adopter, so like me when I went to get comment, I put my application through this trainer. um I paid my $125 and what that trainer did is over 90 days that they um halter broke this animal. So allowed so but was able to put a halter on it.
00:21:26
Speaker
They picked up all four feet of the animal and then also taught it to load in a trailer. So they have those basic three things to what they call gentle an animal. So when I got comment, he had at least been touched by a human, which is a big, big like giant first step.
00:21:41
Speaker
um But it's a really good program. The BLM will pay the trainers, I think, about $1,000 per burrow to do that. um And it makes that that that ah barrier to entry for you know just somebody getting into this way lower, because they're a lot easier to handle. So um those are kind of the adoption programs in a nutshell. So we're paying, BLM's paying $1,000 per animal. You're paying $125 for the animals. So our conservation dollars are going towards potentially invasive species.
00:22:12
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I guess it would be your tax money. So your tax money is going to fund the Bureau of Land Management. That being said, I'll add some caveats in there. the So the TIP program um went through a bunch of changes in twenty four late 24-25. It was all run through this nonprofit called Mustang Heritage Foundation. They recently lost ah Forgive me i if I don't know the exact terminology if somebody's super familiar with this issue, but they lost the contract to that to that to be the intermediary
00:22:45
Speaker
for those trainers. The new program, called a new nonprofit picked it up called Forever Branded. They are super boro fra or super working borough friendly because a lot of those organizations, some of them just want to see those animals put in sanctuaries where they're not messed with.
Management of Wild Burro Populations
00:22:59
Speaker
um other Other organizations want to see those animals have homes, you know go to working homes, like obviously any animal I get in through my place um is going to have a job. um think again very That's very important to me.
00:23:11
Speaker
so um Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so so some so some some nonprofit money is going into it, your taxpayer money is going into it. um Obviously, the adoption process, that was the point I was trying to make is the adoption programs that sits right now is not pulling enough animals off the landscape to deal with the overpopulation. There are literally thousands of animals sitting in, call it reserve um and holding facilities that the BLM owns and leases. So like you can go to a ranch in Oklahoma,
00:23:42
Speaker
And some guys got a thousand acres and he has a contract with the Bureau of Land Management. He may hold, you know, 500 head of wild horses on his place. You're not going to see that, um but they're out there. Yeah. And that's kind of where I want to get to is just kind of understand that because you're your hands on guy. It's a controversial topic, right? It really is like, it's like, do you want to fly over? And it's like, if it was a, if it was a squirrel, we wouldn't care. But it's a horse and like,
00:24:11
Speaker
That's like the thing that made the West. every cow about Whether you're cowboys or Indians, they are on freaking horses, right? like It's just like we all have grown up with horses. We all love horses. They're beautiful. They're the freaking you know Budweiser horse. you know it's like yeah It's tough. But at the same time, like talk about some of these pens that are full of horses in New Mexico and Arizona, like you know in South Texas. like There are pens where it's literally just crowded animals just shoved into these pens, correct?
00:24:38
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Um, you know, I'm not official spokesman for BLM, but, uh, thousands, if not tens of thousands and and holding right now. Um, I don't know what the adoption, if somebody wants to like sit and Google this, I'm sure all the the numbers are out there with the adoption. i'll just pretend you're an expert to so Just say numbers. we but We won't, we won't fact check you. Don't worry. Yeah. Um, but.
00:24:58
Speaker
You know, it's cool to be, so thinking on the the the really neat side of that, I think one of the biggest draws to getting a burrow donkey over mule or llama or whatever, um or goats, is that the history and the cool culture attached to the burrows. So yeah one thing people don't think about is, like you mentioned, you mentioned the iconic horse you know horse in the Western movies we all grew up with.
00:25:20
Speaker
What people don't realize is in the late, in the 1800s, 1700s, you had to be pretty wealthy to own a horse. So you either had to be a warrior, you had to be a hunter, you had to be a tradesman, a trapper. A horse was not cheap. What was cheap was a donkey or a burrow. So you see all these pictures of these blue collar folks, you know, out across the Southwest, what are they always have their goods on? The donkey, whether that be firewood or, you know, prospecting supplies. All those people who came West mining,
00:25:51
Speaker
mining in kind of the southern portion of the United States, they all had donkeys. they were They were cheap, they're versatile, all the same things that they are today. But yeah, so that part of that culture is super neat um super neat to have one because as soon as you get one, you start to see burrows and donkeys everywhere. You'll go into some you know old saloon and it's you know like, oh, there's a donkey, there's a donkey, there's a donkey. It's pretty neat to be a part of and to continue on.
00:26:19
Speaker
It's me, man. Jesus rode on a donkey, so i'm i'm I'm down with the donkeys. It is funny though, like as like what a second-class citizen the donkey is or the burrow is to the horse. because like I never even thought of that. I mean i understand the wild burrows everywhere in Southern California. like You get out into the deserts or in Arizona. They're just there's everywhere. um You will gloss up more donkeys than you do deer in many of my places I hunt. But I never really thought of them in the same... like They're never in the same breath as the horses.
00:26:49
Speaker
It's always the wild horses, the wild mustang. It's always the wild mustang, right? So we talked about the mustang. It sounds cool. It's weird it doesn't get the same fanfare because they were still really popular up in the 1950s and 60s. The Colorado Mountain Club, which is probably one of the longest running mountain clubs out there, um up until the 50s, they used burros all over Colorado for for their travels. it wasn i i think You know, horses horses got a a lot more attainable and I think ah lightweight backpacking gear.
Comparing Pack Animals
00:27:20
Speaker
um Just more people just started carrying stuff on their backs. um And then horses and mules were started to become the reserve for like the big the big the big outfits, the big outfitters, where you need to carry thousands of pounds. Like it would take you, I don't know how many burros to carry in a full, you know, tro three tents, outfitter tent into the, you know, Frank Church roll nurse in Idaho. It's silly, it wouldn't make sense.
00:27:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. and I mean, I'm excited because I've never used stock. And this year, I'm i'm going to go out with some of the greedy guys and I should be using some of Livicay's llamas this year. yeah You know, and you don't hear a lot about like, you you are seeing a big push to this llama movement and the goat thing, like Lamprey's using these goats now. And it is funny how like, they're always giving you a jab in each other, right? Everyone's kind of picks their, gets their team and they get in that corner. But um As I'm getting older, I'm not old by any means, but I'm pushing 40 now and my knees are starting to hurt me after coming out. you know I spent 80 days in the backcountry this year or something and a lot of long miles and my knees are starting to swell up you know after this. I could see the benefit in like having
00:28:28
Speaker
yeah I kind of feel like maybe one mule would probably do what I needed us to do. right If I said one mule, I could probably bring that mule with me. and like i taught My buddy Gavin Swinson, um like he hunts in a certain place in New Mexico for elk and they're like eight miles deep and it's deep.
00:28:43
Speaker
um and I don't want to throw away his spots, but like I'm like, man, if he had a mule, yeah It would probably help a lot. so yeah What does that barrier entry look like for getting one of these? like Could I just go get one of these wild meals for 125 bucks? It's already broken because I know like the wild ones are six grand. and if i had Obviously, like I live in kind of like in like the eastern city of San Diego. like I'm not getting a meal where I am. right but like if i If I want to get one of these meals that's already broken for 125 bucks, what does that barrier entry look like to get anything up in the mountains hunting with me?
00:29:17
Speaker
Yeah, so just quick clarification. So you you've got you know got have four four types of pack animals, right? So you've got your goats, you've got carolamas. I don't know how to actually say that. Then you've got horses and mules, and then you've got burrows.
00:29:33
Speaker
So, you know, horses and mules, uh, there's a reason why, you know, the big outfitting groups still use them. Um, they can carry a lot of weight. Uh, you know, once they're trained, they're awesome. You don't have to walk, you know, XY the a hundred different great reasons. So if you're not riding a donkey, correct? but No, no, not, not your normal size donkey. If you want to get out, if you should get a real large one. You could. Um, so that kind of leaves us, you know, the three, the three walking types, llamas, goats, and burros. Um,
00:30:01
Speaker
The nice thing about all three is they're both all relatively low barrier entry. None of them are going to kill you or hurt you. you can get You can pull any one of them around with a halftone pickup and they can you can get by with a relatively small space to keep them in as compared to like a horses or mules.
00:30:20
Speaker
What's cool about boroughs is, yeah, the market on boroughs is still really untouched. So you can either go onto Facebook Marketplace or a rescue organization in southern in Arizona or California and find a donkey that's been handled pretty well somewhere you know in that $200 to $500, $600 range. um Maybe even $1,000 bucks, but it's got some really it's got some decent pack training.
00:30:42
Speaker
For a llama, a similarly trained llama, you're looking at $3,000, $4,000, $5,000. It's like $6,000 for a good llama now, it's crazy. yeah Yeah, if you look at some of the backcountry logistics, they've done an incredible job bringing great llamas, but they are, yeah, $5,000, $6,000.
00:30:59
Speaker
um Goats, to get into the nitty nitty gritty of it, all the animals are good at something. but Like one thing, I get a call from a lot of goat guys. I get i get a lot of calls from goat people, lot many more than llamas. And the thing is with goats is they they got a short lifespan, you know, 70 years or whatever. They really can't pack them full weight until they're like four. So you've got this narrow window of use for them. It takes a lot of goats to pack out of milk, unless you've got some giants like Mark Wonky has or whatever. um You know, maybe the lampers have some bigger ones.
00:31:35
Speaker
you have to have quite a few in your stream. So you have to have you know up and comings, you've got your retirement ones, ye um you know lots of different things. That being said, they can go some pretty cool places and everybody says you can eat them, I guess, when they get to a certain age. They list that as a benefit.
00:31:52
Speaker
I don't know if you've eaten goat, but the whole house- I've been to Kenya, I've been to Africa, a bunch of other, so yeah, I've eaten goat. It's very popular. Overseas, Middle East, they eat goat, so I've eaten goat quite a
Logistics of Owning Burros
00:32:02
Speaker
few times. Yeah, but they're meat goats. They're not eating eight-year-old goats. No, no. That would be Chase Gross. Yeah. Yeah. So like, I don't know. I've cooked goat a couple of times in the house. I've got friend's ale farms. The whole house smells like goat when you cook goat.
00:32:15
Speaker
yeahp um But yeah, ramas are llamas are cool. The only downsides to llamas I see is one, they're really expensive. Two, you have to get up every morning and look at a llama. um like The boroughs, here's all the the the crazy awesome things about boroughs. So they're affordable. One, you can pay anywhere from $100 to $600 to get a pretty gentle borough. There's a number of rescues out there that do a great job.
00:32:40
Speaker
And they have minimal adoption fees, and you know anywhere a couple hundred bucks you get yourself a very gentle Burrow or donkey that you could probably handle a kid depending on you know, which rescue you're going through They're attainable they're everywhere ah You know, it doesn't matter what state you are. There are donkeys. So then there's probably a donkey market um And lastly, they're they're just safe. So like I've got a little kid coming up. Um, they are They're great with kids. They live a long time. So the burrows I have now will see my kid graduate high school, which is really neat. So you'll get a super compared to goats, especially compared to goats. You know, if if you start packing packing a burrow at four years old, you I packed my last one. He was in his mid 20s when he died. um That year he died.
00:33:28
Speaker
He packed a mountain goat out of Montana, he packed elk out of Wyoming, and then um passed away that winter from essentially the the the donkey equivalent to to diabetes. So he had had a whole bunch of issues. So he died early, but was being a badass right up until he died.
00:33:46
Speaker
so Could you put like, I mean, like when you go to the grand canyon, you could ride, you ride burrows down or mules down. the grand cany and So mules mules. Okay. So like you couldn't put like, say you've got a 10 year old kid. Could you throw them onto a donkey and pack them in? or help us up Yeah. So you could like small people, you could throw them on the donkey and bring them in with you on some of these trips. That's kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah. So if you've got young kids, I mean, about the time where they can start to do bigger distances is when they get too big to ride a donkey. So,
00:34:10
Speaker
Pack weight, right? So top three questions I get about burrows. The number one is- You have to crush everybody on this one. Yeah. So the number the number one question I get all the time is as how much can they carry, right? So burrows anywhere from 60 to a hundred pounds. I give a range, right? oh um that's what i So so so more than more than you think. I've pushed them higher than a hundred pounds when they're really fit and we're going on multiple trips.
00:34:36
Speaker
um I've also had them way lower than 100 pounds where if we are off trail and we were bushwhacking it and we're climbing a couple thousand feet into some hellhole. Yeah, you're not going to have 100 pounds on it.
00:34:47
Speaker
That being said, you know, you can compare it to some other animals. Obviously, mules and horses, they can carry 200 pounds, you know, day and night, not an issue. that They can get away with more because they're so much larger. Their sheer size is just bigger. So 20% of a thousand pounds is a lot more than 20% of 500 pounds. It's just a size deal. Yeah. um you know goats yeah you you said you were about to you're gonna go on a trip this the bear hunt spring bear hunt with yeah yeah we'll probably I think those say volunteered up his llamas so we might take some of those llamas on this one I'm not sure who's gonna go with this but yeah llamas so it'll be cool to see see what they carry
00:35:25
Speaker
What people don't realize is a lot of the really well-bred llamas now are are big. They're big. They're not the ones you're getting on Craigslist in the backyard. No, they're big. I think they're carrying like a 60 to 100 pound range that you're talking about, maybe more yeah in that range. I'm curious though, like I feel like one of the draws to llamas and goats, especially llamas is like You don't got to worry about them. You just string them up and you're done. You get there. You don't but really have to worry about water too much. like Like when you bring horses in, you're bringing in feed. You're bringing in hay. You're bringing in, you know what I mean? yeah When you're bringing your burrows in, are you having to bring in hay with you and bringing grain? And are you, what are you doing there? Really? good Yeah. So really good question. um Supplemental water, supplemental water and feed. ah So I don't,
00:36:09
Speaker
So those are desert animals, right? So they can get they can live on pretty poor forage, but they can't live on air. So they gotta have yeah decent grass wherever your camp is. So the when I go to camp using Astoria as an example here. So last year or two summers ago we did about 200 miles of the Colorado Colorado Trail. So we walked from Denver. We walked with the Burroughs from Denver to Leadville.
00:36:34
Speaker
um And as we pick our camps, the two big priorities are water and food. So we try to find a place with a fair bit of grass and then with close access to water. I hate hauling water. It is such a pain in the butt. When I'm hunting or hiking, I never want to deal with water. It weighs so much. I do so much desert hunting and I like Sometimes I have to carry in three three gallons of water. All the times I'll spring water in and store it and they go back. You know what I mean? It's from scouting. Like water sucks. Eight pounds per gallon. Just never forget that. It's just, it's a lot of weight. Yep. So, so they're not going to drink as much water as a horse or a mule. You know, you kind of think about that size, you know, size chart again. That being said, they need water every day. I've had them not drink water every day. Like, you know, I think in the Southwest, you get those monsoons in September during September bow season.
00:37:22
Speaker
I've had them not drink water out of my little bucket for a couple of days just because they're getting it from the from the grass and stuff from, you know, for rains, you know, every afternoon or something. But, you know, good animal husbandry, you still got to offer it to them every day. They have a lot less help. The ones that come from the wild horse and burrow program, they tend to have less health issues than new domestic ones. So if you get one from a rescue, just know that you know you might have a little more health issues. ah you know They haven't had natural selection as the process.
00:37:52
Speaker
so yeah
00:37:56
Speaker
Yeah. So they're pretty, I mean, how big is your string? You carrying two dogs? I mean, I don't think you need more than two, right? You're doing two, three. How many are you doing on a hunt? Like we're going out. All right. Let's say I finally draw my heel attack. Actually, you got just everyone listening. Don't apply in New Mexico this year because I'm applying for the 50th time. So just don't apply this year so I can draw my freaking heel attack finally. So let's say I finally draw my 16A tag.
00:38:17
Speaker
Um, and I'm like, man, Shane, I want to get some donkeys. How many donkeys am I getting from you? Or how many donkeys should I get? Like what, what does that look like? You draw that, he the tag, you want to go in five miles deep because you want to get that big healer three 40 bull. How many donkeys you bring on that trip?
00:38:33
Speaker
Yeah, so I've done a number of hunts on the Helix 16B under the wilderness there. And so two, keep it simple. so Two donkeys. So first thing I know about adopting a donkey, so you know Drew, your you you decide you're going to get donkeys this spring. You can't have just one. They get weird if you get one. They tend to like start chewing on the barn and just do weird things. theyre like They get super bonded. So um whether it be in the wild or at home, you always see them in pairs or at least groups.
00:39:02
Speaker
So you're going to get too do they two Two donkeys you can expect to carry. you know if If you decide this is going to be a thing what you're going to do in the summertime, um you know you're going to get them workouts in, you're going to be responsible with them, um get them in good shape. um You can expect them to carry 8,800 pounds.
00:39:21
Speaker
ah So, which seems like a lot of weight when you're at the trail, especially we're coming from backpack hunting. You're like, Oh my God. Like what do I do with it? I try, I try and stay under 50. I feel like I hit, so if I'm backpack hunting, I'm, you can't get under 60, 65 pounds. Like it's just like, it's impossible with food and water to get our 65 pounds. Like it's just like, especially doing five days food, it just adds up. So um by yourself, that style of hunting, a lot of fun because like, well yeah, when I'm,
00:39:48
Speaker
When I'm hunting by myself, usually it's about 50 pounds of gear on both animals. And it's like, they can go anywhere without a mountain for like all day. And yeah, it's like whatever I get, you know, bring myself a bunch of like luxuries. So you carrying that you're carrying like a 20 pound pack. I mean, that's it a rifle and like some optics. Yeah. Yeah. I carry. So I usually just carry you out my bow and snacks. dude I could go forever if I can carry my bow and snacks. Oh my gosh. Like I feel like it would just be like, I would just be running through the mountains like Cameron Haynes.
00:40:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, it's a lot of fun. Like even now I've started to get kind of snobby where I'll put my like Malgene in my snacks and like my rain wear just thrown on top of their pack. So I don't have to carry that extra like 2.1 pounds. I don't know. I don't want anything. I was like, I get up, I get up twice a day. I have to feed these donkeys. So like right now I'm not going to carry shit. It's all in them. Oh dude, I'm going to buy a ranch at some point in the next like 10 years. Like I want to have some property. When I see ranch, it could be 20 acres in San Diego, whatever.
00:40:47
Speaker
I am like... Pack animals are definitely ah on the horizon, right? as They get older, right? Because I want to hunt until I'm like 70, like this style of hunting. um This sounds intriguing with the donkeys. So so you said... So Drew's getting two donkeys. He's going to... Two donkeys. Two donkeys. So say you pick them up from a rescue or off Facebook or whatever. You spent about $1,000 for the pair. um Then you've got some tack you're going to buy you know another $1,000 or so. You're going to buy a pack saddle and some panniers, maybe $1,500.
00:41:17
Speaker
Um, and then you're pretty well all set up. So you're gonna need a trailer. Uh, so I started out with just your normal little two horse trailer. and They, they're like, they they call it two horse straight load. So it's just, they're stopped by side. They're in there. That's okay. You can get those about for like two grand anywhere, you know, and whatever. Um, I don't recommend that anymore. Um, if you can get yourself like a 10 or 12 foot stock trailer, which is just an open trailer, that's much better. Um,
00:41:42
Speaker
and Because you can then you can use your Holland for firewood. You can take the kids to college with it. You can use it for a bunch of other stuff. With a two horse straight load trailer, that's a horse trailer. um yeah And plus, the when you're when you are learning as a new a new animal owner and the donkey is learning, loading a two horse straight load is kind of tough versus just the open space of a just car you know cargo style open stock trailer.
00:42:07
Speaker
um So yeah, you're going to have that. You're going to, it's a bumper pull stock trailer. You're going to have your half ton pickup. You can get into 90% of places. Um, you're not going to do 75 miles an hour down the highway. Um, cause it is kind of heavy, but, uh, you can get anywhere as long as you got a five, you know, 4.8, five liter engine. Um, you can go and do anything you want and all said and done, you're into it for less than five grand. Um, all of that stuff is, uh,
00:42:32
Speaker
If you decide this isn't your jam after two years, those donkeys pack donkeys, trained pack donkeys, go resale super fast. I've never seen one for sale for more than a couple of days. um Same thing for the trailer and all the tack. Trying to find used tack is about impossible, especially for donkeys, um because it just holds its value. So um it's it's really easy to get into. The costs are way lower than any of the other animals, goats, llamas, or horses.
00:43:01
Speaker
um and it's a lot easier to learn. I think i think that one of the one of the other very cool parts about Burroughs is that if you decide, like Drew, you decide to go use your ranch.
00:43:12
Speaker
10 years from now, you just spent the last five years learning all about basic equine husbandry. All the you know all the pack saddlers are the same. The behavior is 90% of the same. The feed, the veterinary care, that's all pretty well the same as a horse or a mule. So time comes, you know you're gonna get your ranch, you're gonna already have a bunch of that knowledge. You learned it at a low price point and you know you you were safe. You didn't have some rodeo that like killed you and your buddy. So it's pretty cool. The gateway drug to pack animals.
00:43:41
Speaker
So, one of the like one of the cool things about llamas and goats, they're kind of a four-wheel drive. They can kind of go wherever you can go. I have to imagine burrows, you can't really do that. Like, you're not going to can they go like someplace's goats can go. like there's sometimes like I make some, I make some pretty stupid decisions in the back. I'm not going to lie, right? Like it is like, you're going elk hunting. Like they just take you places that you never should have went. So what is, do you need a trail for these things? Or can they kind of cut
Backcountry Hunting with Burros
00:44:09
Speaker
trail? Yeah. Yeah. No, I did. I did a really good, uh, a pretty decent pack out of two miles on trail, six miles of of trail, um, this fall with a full ball, uh, that I got during archery season.
00:44:21
Speaker
They they're not going to be quite as agile as a llama or definitely not as agile as a goat as far as when it comes to like blow down. That's the one thing that kicks up. So if you end up with blow down, that's more than knee high. You know a lot of. There's a lot of you know Colorado Idaho Montana that is dead beetle kill blow down now and that does kick our butt.
00:44:41
Speaker
Uh, cause you either have to cut your way in, like if you're going to go recover an animal or you have to spend a lot of time just weaving your way all the way through stuff. Yeah. I think of one spot this year, I heard a burn and I was like, that would have been a nightmare with those things. Cause it was like, it just, you just had to go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And if it was, if we were able to jump over some stuff, I can see that.
00:45:01
Speaker
Yeah, I can see that's where goats would have a major advantage. Llamas, I don't think there is much there there might be a little bit of an extra advantage as far as off trail on some of the steeper stuff. Like if you're going to go up something that has a heavy duff layer um up a steep mountainside, that they might have it a little advantage. That being said, I've taken these burrows into some gnarly places.
00:45:22
Speaker
and But my experience when when I've shot elk, you're usually closer to a route than you think you are. So yeah I might have to pack that thing you know a quarter mile up onto a ridge or okay ah got you somewhere else that that I can get animals in. But um most of my elk I've been able to get right to the kill site. And I've hunted a lot of Southern Colorado hard hard beetle kill.
00:45:49
Speaker
um yeah So it it hasn't been as much of an... it I thought it was gonna be a bigger issue. I'm like, I'm gonna be stuck on the trail. It hasn't been as bad as I thought. so
00:45:59
Speaker
And so you're probably doing, I mean, a bowl, realistically, 150 pounds of meat, 200 pounds of meat, maybe on a bowl. Are you doing a couple of trips? You just doing like loading up, bid was go out. Yeah. Um, so most, so I found like, you know, I took a three and a half, 40 half year old bowl. Um, you know, ah like five points, small six is somewhere around 200 pounds boned out. Um, but yeah, hot, you know, call it 180 to 220. Like i've I've shot some bigger, some bigger ones that are closer to 220 pounds of meat.
00:46:29
Speaker
Um, we've done it, done it all in one load. So, uh, give you, you can now carry 50 pounds. I guess I take it's notes like, Oh no, I have to carry a 50 pound quarter out. Like that's not too terrible. No, right I guess you're, I guess you're part of the, you're part of the equation. You're not a hundred pound pack. Like most of us regular folks, you're, you're a 50 pound back on you.
00:46:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. so So I mean, use the actual example from this fall. So we were eight miles from the truck. Six of that was on the trailhead. Two of that miles was right at kind of tree line. There was still some definite down um stuff we had to go through. But I did two miles off trail. I load i put that full elk on him. I did the hindquarters on my bigger burrow, which he's right about 500 pounds. I put the front the front quarters on my little one that's a little bit smaller.
00:47:14
Speaker
um The horns went on the, i actually, yeah, the horns went on the burrow too. um So again, I've got a cool video. I think it's somewhere on our Instagram. It's me drinking a coffee cup, leading these burrows out, um you know, on our packout just enjoy in life pack just packing a bowl out, drinking a cup of coffee. It's pretty awesome. That's rad.
00:47:34
Speaker
that's a It's intriguing. It's not in my deck of cards right now. like We live, like I said, kind of in the city. I'm like a third-acre we have a pool. like I don't know where to put the doggies on. so but yeah It definitely is intriguing to do. like I definitely want to have that at some point in my life, some way to get animals around and just get back deeper. It's not that I i feel like you start to learn. like Everyone gets all mad, like, oh, you're not that old.
00:47:55
Speaker
like The older you get, like it doesn't matter how much I train, like things are just slowing down. It's just it's inevitable. like I get out with my kids and like they don't train at all. I train five, six days a week riding bikes and running and doing stuff. like um They get out there and they're just slamming a monster and some freaking Snickers bars and they're just pounding hills. You know what I mean? I'm just like, what the heck? you know so i can so I definitely could see the benefit of having stock and doing this. I'm actually kind of intrigued. Maybe I have Livicay on and the Amper's on like talk about goats and talk about llama is like kind of like making us a series out of this. And it's kind of like, I think it's very popular. I think it's very popular right now. I think everyone's kind of
00:48:33
Speaker
ah like looking at this and seeing this as an option to extend it, right? I think you see like Newberg kind of really, not always Newberg pioneered it, but he kind of like brought the light onto to it and then like he started getting the llamas extending his career as a hunter with these llamas getting out there. Because if anyone can hunt from the truck and it's side by side, right? But it's like, to get where we want to go, like you need to get things out unless you have a crew of guys with you because it's it's hard and you can do it. And I think the biggest thing for me isn't doing it once. It's like the amount of time I'm hunting now.
00:49:03
Speaker
Like the recovery time isn't there, right? Like I'll come off some of these hunts and I'm just like, I'll give, ah you could ask my camera crew. Like I just, we just go 10 days straight. You just go, you get off the mountain and like,
00:49:14
Speaker
you're trying to recover for a week and then you're back in the truck going out again. And that recovery times was hard. Like you just don't have that there. And these llamas would really also those hunts really help. You don't have them there. yeah I'm curious though. So like let me say, said he brings the llamas right along with them and they actually helps with the elk. Like, are you leaving the donkeys back at camp or are you using these, are you using these donkeys as decoys? What are you doing with these things? Are we, is there is a cheat code here? Yeah, yeah no, i I don't, I leave them at camp. Um, I put them in the little portable electric fence. Um, they stay and they live there.
00:49:44
Speaker
Um, for as long as I'm there, I've seen some folks, you know, yeah folks have seen, people have seen the video clips of like, you know, some of the goats, some of the bulls being shot with the goats, like right there in the background. And that's cool. That seems like a giant pain. Um, and also still, if you're hunting places like Colorado, where muzzle loader is in the middle of archery season, oh gosh you you bum shot and you got a brown donkey behind you. Yeah.
00:50:08
Speaker
ah so i no i don't i don't they So they stay at camp. So how that kind of works is so you you pack in, and then I try to find a place that has good water, good feed, um all kind of right there, all the place all the things you'd want as a for a camp anyways. And then I have a little portable electric fence I put out, so I don't have to feed them. One of the big issues with horses and mules is trying to, hop but that a lot of times people will hobble them or put you know a little handcuffs, little horse handcuffs on them. And you have to get up early, let them eat, go to bed late, let them eat.
00:50:38
Speaker
um That electric fence allows them to, you know, get all the nutrition they need. So I don't have to worry about that. The the other nice thing is, you know, this is, I guess, getting into some of my pet thieves, hunting the backcountry a lot the last 10 years. I see a lot of guys camp backpack hunters camp in places they absolutely should not camp.
00:51:01
Speaker
ah I'll put copper ridges instead of downward down where you're down. I saw it so much as your Colorado. I'm like, why are you camped right there in the saddle that I'm trying to class? You're camped right where you, why are you camping there? Makes sense. Why are you camped right where I saw elk six hours ago? Um, yeah, so a couple of times this year, it was baffling.
00:51:21
Speaker
Yeah, it got really frustrating this year. It was just, uh, it was like, okay, okay. We're going to, you know, work, work the elk over here. And then some of you run into some, some backpackers camp and they'd be setting up or whatever. And they're like, ah, we're going to have such a great, I'm like, I, one ball in particular, I lost this year because of somebody that came in at like 11 o'clock at night and decided to camp like.
00:51:39
Speaker
I mean, a half mile above the water up on like right where this like flat, like you're trying to cut these shells, right? He just blew the elk out. And I'm just like, dude, where'd you come? You don't notice them until it's already like seven or eight a.m. You're just like, where did you come from? And you came to the wrong spot.
Fitness and Business Uses of Burros
00:51:53
Speaker
I get it. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess maybe the point I was trying to make was like.
00:51:58
Speaker
the the animals keep you from doing dumb decisions like that. It's really nice. oh Cause I'll camp, I'll camp further away from milk. So like I'll hike five miles in and I'm super refreshed. I don't mind hiking another half mile in the morning. Yeah. A mile in the morning. Cause I've, you know, I'm fresh, uh, versus like backpack hung and you were like, and I started as a backpack hunter and you'll be like, I want to be as close as I can. Like I really do not want to walk, you know, another thousand feet uphill in the morning. Uh, so it keeps you from doing stupid things like that.
00:52:29
Speaker
I get that too. Like it's kind of off the, I mean, it isn't off topic. So it's all things about backpacking and stuff. But like, I find like, dude, because I've done the top camp for ridges and have to hike down to the water and make water and then go back up with your water. Like it's nice just to camp down there. Like it's not hard to hike in. Like once, like I love backpack hunting, right? Or camping in the hills. Even if I'm like in San Diego, I'd love to camp in the hills where I hunt. Cause then you don't have to get up.
00:52:53
Speaker
If I get up and I'm already back, five miles, I only got to go a couple ridges. It's not that bad. You can just go up, you can do a mile in the morning, whatever. and Anyone can tell you the hunt's with me, like that's going to turn to 10 miles no matter what. Anyways, like somehow we're going to be like, let's go over there. like like I get bored the middle of the day and I start working ridges and glassing canyons and doing stuff. right like yeah so like no matter what you're getting like It's shocking how far you can make it in a day anyways. like You ever look back and you're like,
00:53:16
Speaker
wow, how did I do eight miles? Like camp is right there and I just somehow did this. yeah So like, I don't know. I like the idea of just like being within like couple hundred yards of water, core mile of water at the farthest and then hiking out from there. Like I like the idea of making a base camp back there and then going from there, not trying to camp in the animals. Cause like you smell your wind swirling swirling at night. Like don't camp on where you're trying to kill animals. Like stay out of it and then get up there. You know? Yep. Yep. I 100% agree. So.
00:53:44
Speaker
It's a yeah, having having the pack animals has been wonderful. I mean the the things it opens up to you as a backpack hunter are awesome. It's great for your kids. The racing side of it for with the Burroughs has been a whole cool new addition. um You know that there's sort of there's not. I mean horses and stuff. There's all sorts of stuff you can do with horses, but um you know the racing keeps them in really good shape. I've arguably got some of the best in shape animals. There are donkeys on the planet.
00:54:11
Speaker
they they're Yeah, they're and they're that's ah that's a nice ass. Yeah, yeah exactly. I've heard all the puns. Do you ever get done with the but the puns? I mean, is it just like, do you have t-shirts and stuff? It has to be like... Yeah, badass, fast ass, like all all the ass jokes for sure. Yeah. It just never stops. it's Yeah, it never stops. But at the same time, it's like, well, you know like mine are pretty badass. My kids' favorite verses in the scripture are definitely about asses. like um we so then Let's read that part.
00:54:39
Speaker
We've done we've done movies, um movies with ah movies with the burros we've ever every Christmas we get asked to do nativity scenes. I actually have one of my side businesses is doing a tequila burros or wedding ah wedding doggies. So if you're looking for some extra income, um that's pretty neat. So we have a little shot rack that sits on on the packs out of the donkey. um And we go and do tequila tequila burros at weddings. So how many do you have now?
00:55:08
Speaker
Uh, just to, um, I keep just two, sometimes I will rotate ones in and out that need training and, you know, um, other ones I pick up, but I just keep two, I keep it simple. You've got two donkeys. That's awesome, man. Hey, so we're getting close to an hour. We always try to wrap around there. I always enter the hunting story. So it's just, give me a donkey hunting story, man. It's give me a store hunting story or you have to be able to donkeys, but just give me a hunting story. It doesn't be your biggest animal. Your favorite story, man. Does a good campfire donkey story. Yeah. Good campfire donkey story. Um, i mean involving hunting.
00:55:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, ah we've had some some really some really neat ones. Probably one of the, probably probably one of my favorite is, I think it was my second year I had these donkeys. So I'm going back to the opening story. I had i had the older donkey and then I had my hood rat, Julia from the South Valley. And I took them up to Montana. So I'm um going up there and in my truck, um just a little two horse trailer, learning all about this. I just bought the donkeys.
00:56:07
Speaker
This might've been my first year. So I bought the donkeys like that spring and this is the fall. It's crazy how fast your entry is to this. Like it's just, it seems to me like ah it's going to be years of training, but you just grabbed these donkeys out of a freaking BLM pen essentially and taken them hunting. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. Uh, yeah. Um, just lots of, you know, uh, so quick.
00:56:27
Speaker
quick side tangent on our YouTube channel. um I've got a hundred days, a hundred days for a donkey. I forget exactly what I called it, but um my BLM burro I got in April and first week of September, I took them on an all cut. So less than a hundred days. Freaking awesome.
00:56:41
Speaker
Um, anyway, so we're going up to Montana, my, my little jalopy jalopy set up. Uh, my dad drew a mountain goat tag this year. And then I had over the counter elk tag. Um, we are just north of Yellowstone parks. So like primo grizzly country, you like the biggest, I was curious, I was curious about this. Yeah. The most highest density grizzly population yeah in the United States.
Memorable Hunting Trip
00:57:01
Speaker
So kind of out there outside of West Yellowstone and, uh,
00:57:05
Speaker
So yeah, we get up there and we are cutting gizzy tracks the whole way through. It's starting to snow. It's mid-September and it's starting to snow and rain. The outfitters actually pulling out because there's supposed to be a bigger snow storm coming and we end up hunting. We get to camp seven miles in, set up camp without a whole lot of issues but The whole next day we were cutting grizzly tracks, we'd find a few mountain goats in the snow, which turns out it was really difficult. He's not saying white animals on white snow. i Glassing up grizzlies the whole time, I am stressed out. and Yeah, it was just an incredible, amazing trip. We ended up packing out that goat seven miles.
00:57:47
Speaker
we did We did camp and the goats on the Burroughs, which is tough to do, the dead animal plus your camp and all your stuff in one trip. Usually you have to do separate trips. But we packed it all out. This is the Burroughs, I think it's the Burroughs first true backcountry hunt. But the the cool part of the story is we there's this there was this big like 500 foot drop and the trail was just this switchback, like zigzag, typical switchback. And it was so funny.
00:58:16
Speaker
and so snowy that it was pretty much just a slip and slide. And the burros just kind of sat back on their butts, put their feet out and just slid down like a half mile, 500 foot drop into this, into this, the gallatin, one of the forks of the gallatin there. And it was just amazing. um You know, they had come from, you know, backyards and here we are in Montana doing a mountain goat hunt in the snow with grizzly bears. It was just, it was insane. Don't ever forget how hardworking those animals were that week.
Conclusion and Social Media Outreach
00:58:45
Speaker
They just, they busted their butt. So it was cool. That is awesome, dude. So anyway, let's just want to get some burros for me to use. Go ahead and do that. Cause I'm not getting one here, but, uh, hopefully I can go over and hang out with Shane's at some point. Maybe we'll do a hunt this year over there with Chad or something. We can drag your burros along or something, dude. Uh, let me, uh, it sounds like you got a bunch of stuff going on through YouTube and stuff. Let's plug that stuff. what Where do we find you guys? We're talking about your Instagram.
00:59:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So everything, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, it's all NM as in New Mexico, packburrows.com are NM pack burrows across all the all the sites. YouTube's cool. I've got some parts. I've got some videos on there as far as where to find a burrow. I've got a few episodes of, oh, building a back country burrow is what I called it. I've got a few episodes of me taking that BLM burrow all the way through training and then ending it with um a back country hunt. So um you get to see that whole process.
00:59:38
Speaker
And yeah, I'm just a dude. I found these animals. They're awesome, awesome, and not nearly as well respected as they should be. So if anybody got any questions, I answer questions about burros and adoptions and training and all that all the time. So shoot me a DM. it's I'm the guy behind all the social media. Again, that's New Mexico, NMPackBurros on Instagram. So NMPackBurros on Instagram, YouTube, and a website.
01:00:05
Speaker
Sweet dude, Shane, you're the man, bro. what's the I'm excited to check these burros out, dude. Absolutely. Also, don't forget, there's some races in Southern California and Arizona, so ah i think y'all I think you should do one. I should do one. All right, my dirt bike, I'll follow you. Absolutely. Sounds like a plan.
01:00:26
Speaker
cold it Thank you for listening to the Tricer Podcast. Do us a favor and like and subscribe on whatever platform you are listening on. Give us a follow on Instagram and Facebook at TricerUSA and go and check out all of our innovative gear at www.tricerusa.com. Until next time, shoot straight, have fun, and always put God first.