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Bullets, Ballistics And Burro Mountain Rifles – Kevin Hill
198 Plays3 days ago
This week on the Tricer Podcast, Drew has Kevin Hill from Burro Mountain Rifles on to talk about custom rifle builds. Burro Mountain Rifles is building custom rifles at an affordable price and they come scoped with quality optics and load development complete. Drew and Kevin talk about starting a custom rifle business, a wide variety of hunting and competition cartridges and a lot of ballistics talk. Kevin is an experienced hunter and competition shooter who knows his stuff. If you are considering a custom rifle listen to this podcast and check out Burro Mountain Rifles
KEVIN HILL – BURRO MOUNTAIN RIFLES
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/burro_mtn_rifles/
Website - https://www.burromtnrifles.com
TRICER USA
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Transcript
Introduction and Opening Prayer
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to the Tricer podcast, where we talk all things hunting, gear, and the great outdoors. Before we begin, let's start things out right and put God first. Lord Jesus, I thank you for Tricer, and I ask that you can use this podcast as a way to bring joy to all of our listeners.
00:00:17
Speaker
We lay Tricer and this podcast at your feet. Amen.
Host's Legal Woes and Guest Introduction
00:00:22
Speaker
All right, everybody. I'm feeling spicy after getting ah unjustly sued by someone. about my got hit by someone down here in San Diego.
00:00:30
Speaker
They're trying to claim it on me, but they're going to be at fault for this thing. I'm feeling a little spicy today. had a rough day talking to insurance jesters all day long. So I got Kevin Hill from Burrow Mountain Rifles on, and feel like it's pissing everybody off, talking about Creedmoors and talking about energy and everything that pisses off all these rifle guys. Let's have some fun, Kevin. Let's talk about guns, dude. All right. Let's dive into it.
00:00:53
Speaker
Dude, so what?
Kevin Hill on Hunting Experiences
00:00:54
Speaker
What the heck is Borough Mountain Rivals and where are you at? And what is that behind you? is that an Ibex behind you? That's an Ibex from the Floridas down here in New Mexico. Oh, you drew the Florida tag. Yes, sir.
00:01:03
Speaker
My man. Is that a female behind it as well? There's a nanny. I actually got the Billy tag off of in incentive from tagging out on the nanny. Really? So what do you mean? So they don't offer that program anymore, but in 2020 they did.
00:01:17
Speaker
And I was able to harvest a nanny. and then check it into the state. And once Game and Fish um basically registered that I was successful, they put me in for a special draw.
00:01:28
Speaker
And I was able to get a billy tag out of that special draw. In the same year? In the same year. Dude, that's where it's at, man. Like, that second dude's been on here, like, I had a guy come on here, probably a year ago, and he drew ah an Oryx tag on the white sands. And then he drew, then he drew a broken Oryx tag on the white sands the same year.
00:01:47
Speaker
Holy cow. So there's like, there's, there's tricks. You guys madness down there. Not so much for the non-resis, but dude, like i don't even put him, I put him for everything down there. I don't put him for Ibex. I don't put him for sheep because it's just really expensive. And the odds are so slim. It's just for Ibex. But, uh, that's awesome, man. Like what did you have to do? any Like rope climbing or anything? Or was it, how was it intensive? I think it is, or.
00:02:09
Speaker
it That mountain is crazy. The nanny was actually the harder to hunt. and It is a mountain, so everyone knows. like It's like this is where the Ibex are in New Mexico. like This is the mountain they're on The locals call it the rock because it is just sheer bluffs. I mean, it's ridiculous.
00:02:25
Speaker
But ah i'm ah I'm a firm believer for anybody that wants to hunt billies, they need to hunt nannies first because there's a lot of steep angles and a lot of cross canyon shots. and It was a learning curve for me.
00:02:37
Speaker
Yeah, it's a, um it's what I've heard it's one of the most, like in the lower 48, like terrain-wise, one of the most insane terrain hunts we have. like I would agree with that. Like a lot of animals, they have to call in somebody who can rope climb down to get them.
00:02:53
Speaker
but You have to very aware of where you shoot them because absolutely you're not going to get them out of there. Absolutely.
Debate on Rifle Cartridges
00:02:59
Speaker
I was very fortunate that this Billy worked his way down to a ah bluff that we were comfortable climbing and I was able to anchor him with one shot with a 28 nozzle.
00:03:10
Speaker
Really? Big 28 nozzle guy, huh? Yes, sir. we just get right into it and talk about what the makes his 28 nozzle better than my 280 Ackley, dude? In my mind, I don't think it is until I hit 600 yards. Marketing. Marketing?
00:03:24
Speaker
Marketing. Marketing. 280 Ackley is a great cartridge. I have a lot of friends that run it. um Before I really understood ballistics and everything, I jumped head first and fell in love with the cartridge and the performance. And so I've just kind of stuck with it.
00:03:40
Speaker
Yeah. So let's let's talk about that right? We're going to get a Burrow Mountain Rifles too. But why I say, when you say marketing, so a 280 Ackley, I'm shooting my bullets at like, I think 3,100 feet per second on my 280 Ackley, my hammer bullets.
00:03:55
Speaker
So it's, um maybe, no, you know what? this That gun, that 3,100 feet per second for my hammers, for my burgers, when i was shooting some burgers out of it, i was shooting those like 2,900. It had 1,000 pounds of energy out to 800 yards.
00:04:09
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Like with BCs, like with what modern bullets are, you can get away with a standard action bullet and do just as much as those magnums out to a certain range. And really those bullets don't even become...
00:04:24
Speaker
but cartridge I mean, but aside from wind drift and drop, like for hunting ranges, you don't need more than a 30 out six or a, even a three Oh eight, in my opinion, to make most kill shots.
00:04:38
Speaker
It's twenty yards like six, 700 yards that you do. And what people don't understand is, is that yes, that bullet will be going now at, let's say I'm shooting a, what's your seven PRC doing? What velocity are you getting out of it?
00:04:51
Speaker
Oh, my 7PRC, we're getting about 2840, but my 28 Nozzler is getting 3100 out of a 22-inch barrel. Really?
00:05:02
Speaker
Yeah. So why is the other one going so slow? um With the 7PRC, I'm thinking case capacity. Oh, I'm sorry, because short case. That's a short case. That's right. That's right. Well, the 7 is in a long action, but it's kind of a medium case.
00:05:17
Speaker
And we where we, so we like to run suppressors and so we run shorter barrels. And so a lot of the times we run on 22 inch barrels. So ah I like the Magnum so that way I can kind of cheat a little bit, get that higher velocity out of the shorter barrel. That does have a benefit to it. Right. So essentially what you're doing now is shooting a seven millimeter audit.
00:05:40
Speaker
It's just, it's just velocity wise. For the 7 PRC maybe. So that's what people understand when we're listening to this. I am not knocking what you're doing. i'm just saying I can get the same velocities you're getting out of 22 24 inch.
00:05:55
Speaker
um So you're getting, you said 2,700 feet per second out of that 7 PRC? Yeah. With a 180? With a 180. ah You probably can't get that with a 7mm odd 8.
00:06:08
Speaker
You definitely could with 280 Ackley. Oh, yeah. With a 280 Ackley. I can get the 180 going. Like i said, 29 something out of my 24-inch barrel 280 Ackley. I'm shooting the 180 grain burgers 175 grain burgers 2915. Oh, okay. So RL26.
00:06:20
Speaker
okay so r all twenty six so Just because it's a 7PRC doesn't mean that it's going faster than 280. It's just now what you could do is shrink that barrel down with that Magnum and run out. Are you running an 18 inch barrel? What are you running?
00:06:34
Speaker
We're running predominantly. We're running 22 and it's still only shooting 2700 feet per second, huh? That's a friend of mine does the loads for the 7PRC and that's what he's getting. Okay.
00:06:45
Speaker
Throw it slower. But you could you can still accomplish that. And let me tell you why prefer... Actually, don't even have any Magnums. I shoot 30-nozzler once when my father-in-law's got one. I prefer a standard action, like a 30-out-six or a 280 Ackley over a 7-REM mag or a 300-WIM mag or a PRC is for feeding issues.
00:07:06
Speaker
Historically, a standard cartridge just going to feed much easier than a Magnum cartridge, right? Especially in a top fed Magwell.
00:07:18
Speaker
Correct? Yes, sir. Now you can, so the reason why I'm, I'm not knocking the PRC. I'm just saying it's, is the whiz bang hot cartridge right now with a two 80 Ackley, I could get more rounds down And the only difference I'm going to have is maybe a slight difference in weight because it's a long action, but you're probably running a long action yours anyways, aren't you?
00:07:38
Speaker
Yes, sir. You already run a long action. So why in the world would you shoot 7 PRC over a 280 Ackley and not have all that extra, does one extra round down underneath it and not do those feeding issues and the feed ramps and things bounding us?
00:07:54
Speaker
So this is coming from a customer basis from guys I talked to. They want to be able to buy ammo on the shelf and go shoot
Environmental Impact on Ballistics
00:08:02
Speaker
half minute MOA. And the 7PRC does that with the Hornady stuff.
00:08:06
Speaker
Okay. With the Hornady stuff. Okay. So you can do it and you can go get it. That makes sense. But you can buy 280 Ackley too over the shelf, right? You can. You can. And you can definitely buy 280 Remington, which is the, you know, but it's not going to be as, it's going to be pretty damn near because got to understand a 280 Ackley is a Magnum, but it's a short action where if the powder capacity, I bet you is pretty darn near the same as that OTT 6 case used for a 280 Ackley.
00:08:30
Speaker
Right now. That's fine. Whatever. To each their own on what you're going to do with your cartridges. I'm not, I didn't bring you on here to to hammer you. That's what you want to talk about today. on toilet ice I just want to talk about, no I just think there's a lot of misinformation out there about these cartridges, which yes, are marketing ploys, right? Oh, absolutely. Horty, no offense Horty.
00:08:49
Speaker
The six five Creedmoor is a two 60 Remington. That was very well advertised. It was actually less efficiently. Right. And they, these guys make money. People listening to this by creating new cartridges, making you buy new guns.
00:09:04
Speaker
Right. We would make a seven PRC. Let's make my God. What is this new one called? The, uh, the seven Western or something like that oh the seven hats country. so It's a two 80 Ackley improved.
00:09:16
Speaker
It's what it is in a steel case. seven And like everyone and their mom is going out there and just like, you've got every influencer in the world running this seven back country. And it's like, my God, you could do the same thing with so many other cartridges and the ant was readily available.
00:09:33
Speaker
And I'm like, I look at this cartridge and I'm like, is this cartridge going to last? I don't, whatever. Federalist can do it, but like you're putting a lot of risk on buying a seven backcountry. I'm telling you right now, because if it doesn't sell guns, they're not going to make ammo for it in two years. Yep.
00:09:49
Speaker
You'd be much better off buying a 280 Ackley or a seven PRC, which you know is an established cartridge is going nowhere, right? 280 Ackley is getting more popular every single year. Seven PRC is very popular right now.
00:09:59
Speaker
um I prefer seven millimeters
Personal Hunting Preferences
00:10:01
Speaker
over six fives all day long, which you get in that as well. But, um, so I digress back to the original point, which was you were shooting 28 Nosler.
00:10:11
Speaker
Yes, sir. And you're shooting that at what velocity? Uh, out of that 22 inch barrel, I'm getting 3,100 feet a second. And, and now what bullets you shooting that lighter ones, one sixties then?
00:10:22
Speaker
180 burgers. 180 burgers. Okay. Yeah. You shoot 180 burgers. Now the the cool thing is about that gun is it is going to give you some extreme velocities, right? Oh yeah. And you're going to have, um,
00:10:35
Speaker
is you get extreme velocity out of it versus like my two 80 Ackley is getting 29. I want to 20. It might be 2950. It's somewhere in the 29, 2950 or something like that with that same bullet with 175 burger.
00:10:46
Speaker
Okay. Now here's my argument to you. and I didn't bring on your argument. I just be right. And you just concur with me. right. Um, but you can, you can tell, I would love for you to tell me why I'm wrong. At what point do I need, if my 280 Ackley, that is now not going to burn up barrels every, because a 280 knowledge is like a 700 round gun, right? A five to 800 round gun.
00:11:08
Speaker
I've gotten 1500 and still shooting out of one of my barrels, but I swapped it out because I was getting a little nervous. Historically, it's like right around there, right? Whatever. 700 to a thousand rounds. it's go to but it's It's not known for barrels, which is fine. I don't care about that because like, honestly, people all the time, you don't build a race car and worry about the race fuel.
00:11:26
Speaker
If you can't afford to shoot 28 Nosler, shoot 20 Aqua. The ammo's lot cheaper. going to go to the barrel, last you forever, right? Shoot a 30 going to into that a minute. So anyways, do you have to, if you understand ballistics, my gun is still putting a thousand foot pounds of energy out at 800 feet, 800 yards. And I think it's still going like 2000 feet per second or something like that with, with high speed people. I'd admit i'd be're willing to bet your threshold's a little bit higher than that.
00:11:55
Speaker
It probably is. It probably, I'm just, maybe it's, you know what? Maybe it's 1500 feet, 1500 pounds of energy, 800 yards. I have to look at it. I think it might be 1500 pounds of energy at 800 and a thousand pounds energy at a thousand yards. That's right. That is, that's right. Correct.
00:12:09
Speaker
So why the hell do I need a 28 Nosler to do the same thing that my gun does with less recoil, less money, less barrel burning? Why would I ever justify other than it's really cool?
00:12:21
Speaker
ah Personal preference. um I'm actually staring at a 28 inch over the counter Barbary sheep hanging on my wall that I killed at 1,250 yards. Yep. Cold shot. yep cold cold bore one shot So that's where that's where you're going to shine, right?
00:12:36
Speaker
yeah Now I have core board with my 280 Acoly at 1,200 yards. I can tell you that. But not I would never, me and you are different, I would never take a shot at animal at 1,250 yards. I do too much shooting for me to trust myself.
00:12:48
Speaker
I shoot four days a week and I still wouldn't take that shot. I'm more of a, like I like to be in that 500 yard range. Well, there is a, there is a backstory to that. Normally I wouldn't shoot that far because I i want to make a good ethical shot.
00:13:00
Speaker
But one of my friends had winged that Barbary and it was getting away from us That's where he needs it. And I was able to get a good range and was able to get a good dope for wind and had all the time in the world and sent one and one shot, one kill.
00:13:15
Speaker
That's what I'm talking about. that night Yeah, it was, it was impressive. I'll never be able to duplicate that. So that's where, that's people need to understand. The gun, the 30 Nosler, or, which is my, we should 30 Nosler, or the 300 PRC, these are big, large Magnum, long action cartridges.
00:13:36
Speaker
They don't start, they don't even come into a range where they're necessary until like 800 yards, right? Or 600, whatever depends on the cartridge you're doing Like, you could do all the same things for the average dude who's hunting.
00:13:48
Speaker
you can get away with a thirty out six or maybe you want you to shoot a little... Say you're going 30 caliber. If someone can be like, I want a 30 caliber I can shoot 600 yards with, I would say, okay, get a 300 wind mag. Oh, yeah.
00:13:59
Speaker
Why? It's available and it just shoots. And the military uses it for reason. Oh, yeah. right It just shoots, right? I mean, and you're going a little more... impact velocity at, you know, that distance, right. Where I'm shooting out of my third, a 30 out six, I'm shooting 150 grain bullet and I'm shooting at 31 60, but those lower BC bullets really start falling off around four to 500 yards, right? like I wouldn't want to shoot something.
00:14:22
Speaker
I did shoot something like like four, 540 yards the other day, just target practice. Yeah. It was, I nailed it. But, um, It's just not, I understand my gun, I understand ballistics, and I just know now, like if I wanted to take, if now I'd say I wanted to go into a a heavier gun, heavier bullet, maybe like a 178 LRX from Barnes, right? Like big fan of Barnes as well.
00:14:46
Speaker
um My.30-06 is like pushing those like 2,700 feet per second, right? Well, that damn.30 or that.300 Win Mag will push that same bullet probably 2,950. Yep. Or 3,000. See some.
Custom Turrets and Long-Range Shooting
00:14:56
Speaker
ah three thousand and now that Now you're touching on it.
00:15:00
Speaker
So but all of these companies are reinventing the wheel because they have the modern bullets. So they're slapping fast twist barrels on these things and shooting the higher BC ammo and calling it brand new and the hottest thing on the shelf, right?
00:15:14
Speaker
Yep. They're just reinventing the wheel. It's the same garbage. It's the same, like a 300 PRC. No offense, everybody. It's not necessary unless you're shooting past 800 yards.
00:15:25
Speaker
And I'm telling you right now, like I did the 30 out six thing this year. I didn't shoot a deer past 290 yards this year myself personally. My kid shot a deer at... 385 with 308 dropped him in his tracks done.
00:15:36
Speaker
Um, but for those ranges, which most guys are shooting under 500 yards, i' would say up more likely under 300 yards, which is 900 feet, right? 420 yards is a quarter mile.
00:15:48
Speaker
You have to try. I mean, no offense guys. Like, I don't want to tell you you're a bad hunter. You can get within a quarter mile of a freaking deer, man. Like you like, yes, I'm going to say right now.
00:15:59
Speaker
If you can't get within four or 500 yards of an animal, You're not a good hunter. Like you got like, you know what i mean? Like you have to try, like, I can't think of a time I have to try to get a thousand yards from an elk sometimes. Like it's like, what you, what you're not seeing. Some of these guys are doing it. Like some of these, i don't want name companies, but some of these brands that do this real long range shooting and build guns.
00:16:22
Speaker
Like they're probably passing animals at 500 yards they can find an animals at 1200 yards to prove what their gun can do. I actually know some individuals that do that. If they find an animal, they'll back up so they can shoot further.
00:16:34
Speaker
That's so stupid. And here's another thing you guys don't see. This is why i get pissed off. What you're not seeing off camera is them because you're so far away is them taking a practice shot, warming the bore up. Oh yeah. At a rock to get their dope and then say, okay, you were three mils, Right.
00:16:51
Speaker
bring your gun over. Then they go to the animal and shoot the animal. You guys at a thousand yards that, Oh, they hear gunshots all day long. They don't care. And hitting a rock 50 yards to their left, they don't care.
00:17:02
Speaker
And it happens all the time. You don't see it on video. Cause they get up there and it's like, I'm shooting the, let's say a 28 Nossers. One of these gun companies out there. It's a real big, big 28 Nosser gun company out there that makes the 28 Nosser guns and shoots all their animals 1200 yards.
00:17:17
Speaker
I've heard, through the grapevine that they take test shots sometimes. Oh yeah. Get their dope. And then they sit on camera and they show you this gun you could buy. Right. And then that's where you get these freaking a-holes like I had down in Arizona last year from Texas or probably 400 pound shoot from the top of a rim at a thousand yards at a spike, 15 rounds missing.
00:17:36
Speaker
Yeah. Cause they, they bought a 300 nozzler and all I gotta do elevation easy. As long as you know what you're doing and you know how to read it if you know how to read a chronograph and get your speed, elevation is simple.
00:17:50
Speaker
It's the wind that'll get you every time. The wind will get you. Yeah. Every time. And that thing, and that I can say that, yes, with a higher velocity bullet at 600 yards, you're going to have, it's going to cut the wind better and you might not have much wind drift. So yes, it's there. So now 300 yards,
00:18:11
Speaker
Yes, at 600 yards, your 300 PRC is going to probably do better wind drift by 6 to 8 inches than 300 wind mech. And it might be 2 foot better than a 30-out 6 or 308, right? And it is not going to drop as much. You're going to have more velocity there.
00:18:26
Speaker
um But still, once you get to those extreme ranges, it doesn't matter what kind you're shooting. there's um I don't want to say there's some luck involved in those shots, but... Damn, there's some luck involved some of those shots. It absolutely is.
00:18:37
Speaker
Tell you what, guys, go out to the desert, go pick a rock at 900 yards, run up and down the hill a couple times, and then put a stick between your nuts and lay down on the stick, and then shoot that target at 850 yards, and tell me how good you did the first shot.
00:18:51
Speaker
So I have a ah partner that I'm in business with that's handling all of the reloading and me and him constantly have these late night text message arguments about what's more important, accuracy or knowing environmentals.
Bullet Performance and Cartridge Efficiency
00:19:05
Speaker
I think environmental factors make cause more misses than bad, bad shots. You would be like anyone listening to this who doesn't have, like if you're shooting past 500 yards, you don't have a Kestrel. Like you have no idea how lucky you're getting.
00:19:18
Speaker
Right, right. I'm telling you right now, if you have a Kestrel and you realize that going from not only a thousand feet to 5,000 feet, but going from like density altitude and like the atmospheric pressures. Absolutely. A cold morning and it's really cloudy out.
00:19:34
Speaker
Your bullet is going to drop so much faster than on a clear sunny day because you're going to get, there's going to be stuff collecting on that bullet. Wait, what you don't see is going to bring that thing down.
00:19:48
Speaker
aya I have this argument with clients quite regularly. I mean, not to knock on them, but people like custom turrets. And I mean, if you shoot one temperature, one elevation, one time a day, that's fine.
00:20:00
Speaker
But once you start, you know, really getting out there, hunting different elevations, different areas, that custom turret's not going to work. So let me tell you what I do. So both my boys and both my partners all shoot 308s with Leopold VX3Is. I shoot the same load out of all three of them, the 160-degree and TTSX, and they all have custom turrets.
00:20:19
Speaker
Sit at 5,000 feet elevation. But I understand ballistics, and I understand they're not going to shooting past 400 yards, and it doesn't matter at that range. Yeah, it doesn't. At that range, it does not. It does not matter. So I'm like, you know what? like Honestly...
00:20:32
Speaker
it's whether if I do 5,000, it's pretty good down to like 3,000 and it's pretty good up to 8,000 it's close enough at those ranges where it's not going to matter. i understand it.
00:20:42
Speaker
But now let's say i want to shoot further than that. Like, and I'm going to Colorado at 12,000 feet. I'm going to order another turret. like you know what I mean? I'll probably order another turret. If I was, if I knew i have to look at my kids guns. Was there shooting a Cremor or a one shooting a Cremor, one shooting the three weight. This we're going to do a Oregon hunt.
00:21:00
Speaker
Um, like have to get a high elevation is if we're really high, like if we're up at like 10,000 feet, I'll probably order him another turret for his gun. And now the reason why I like custom turrets for my kids and my partners is my partners haven't reloaded a bullet in their life.
00:21:15
Speaker
Right. I hand them a gun, like a six year old little boy and be like, here's your gun. And they see the animal, they see 340, they turn to 340, they're done. They don't know what an MOA is. They don't understand that an MOA at 100 yards is basically one inch.
00:21:27
Speaker
At 400 yards, it's basically four inches. they don't understand any of that. They don't want to know that. It definitely has its place. Yeah. So, you know what i mean? So, for me personally, I run a custom dial. I carry a Kestrel. I do all, I know all this stuff. And and I'm not even shooting that far distances, right?
00:21:42
Speaker
Yeah. it's Even though I shoot all the time in those ranges, i will I would much rather have the custom have no custom dial and know like wherever I am, I can turn my Kestron, get my everything, and I know, okay, my my dope is this.
00:21:55
Speaker
And my dope is at home, it was 2.9 for, you know, I shot my deer. I knew for a fact it was like 300 yards. But when I'm at 12,000 feet, it might be, it's lighter air density.
00:22:08
Speaker
It's probably going to be 2.7. Yep. yep Or 2.6 at 300 yards. It's going to be maybe a quarter MOE less at 300 yards because the air is that much lighter, the bullets going that much, you know, carrying so much better up there.
00:22:20
Speaker
Right? So it's just, there's so much to do, but there's so much more to do with ballistics than there are calibers and people just don't understand it. Oh, absolutely. And with today's modern bullets, there's an argument to be had that a 30-06 can do everything it's always done and it will continue to do it.
00:22:35
Speaker
Oh, yeah. It's one, two world wars. It's one, two world wars. I'll tell you what I'm doing this year.
Financial Aspects of Hunting Gear
00:22:40
Speaker
is I really do need to start doing more custom rifles again. I need to like, maybe have you build me a gun or something. Like I do my, I have my PRS gun, my NRL gun. Last year I bought a Browning for 800 bucks and shot it. Like I have probably four custom rifles in the safe that I don't use right now.
00:22:53
Speaker
Um, so last year about the 30 out six and I killed a pile of animals with it. Um, I did embarrass myself on the go hunt podcast last week with it. I freaking missed three out of five targets. Whatever. Whatever. i don't, whatever. it's I make good bipods. I don't shoot well.
00:23:07
Speaker
Anyways. Um, I digress from that, but, uh, where's going this year? I, or I'm going to pick it up after this podcast, which is, I wanted to get it early with you, but it didn't happen. It's my fault.
00:23:18
Speaker
Um, I'm getting an open site 30, 30. Awesome. 19 inch barrel, stainless steel. And I don't know how much I'm going to hunt with it, but I can tell you when I go to Alaska,
00:23:30
Speaker
That's the only gun going with me. Oh yeah. That's great for jump shooting. ah I'm planning on stocking and getting close and making the shot under 150 yards, open sites, shooting that thing. yeah And we're doing sick of black tails. Me and Ben Dunamani, Ben's bringing a 45 70. Cause Ben's a wuss. He's afraid of bears.
00:23:49
Speaker
I'm, I am faster than Ben. I think he's pretty good. Like I, I hunted with Ben. Anyone knows Ben? Like I thought like I totally stereotype Ben is like not being a good hiker. And Penn is like a tractor. He is impressive, dude. Like I was like hiking and I was like, I got to hike faster. I can't let Ben beat me up this hill. Like this guy's, this guy's so MO is eating little Debbie's and like, he's fast. He's in shape, man. He lost like 50 pounds or something. He's, he's, he's impressive.
00:24:15
Speaker
But anyways, uh, I'm just going to outrun Ben as my goal. Um, but I mean, honestly, I look at it. I'm like, i'm gonna be shooting copper Barnes, 104, 150 grain, tsx is out of this gun.
00:24:27
Speaker
A grizzly comes, a copper bullet, 30 caliber is going to handle business at those ranges. And i understand ballistics.
Kevin's Journey into Rifle Building
00:24:34
Speaker
I understand at that distance, my TSX is going to be hitting that thing at 2,400 feet per second. That's like a thirty ah six hitting something at 300 yards.
00:24:42
Speaker
You what I mean? Just keep pumping it into them. It's the same. That's what people don't understand. like At these ranges, it's the same gun. at under a hundred yards, it matter what caliber you're shooting. If it's a 30 caliber, it's going to get 300 blackout. 300 blackout is going to hit a deer at a hundred yards at pretty darn near the same velocity. You're going to hit a deer at 400 yards with a 300 wind mag.
00:25:04
Speaker
ye I don't, I'm just talking about don't, if you guys can put in the show notes, I'm an a-hole and I'm wrong, but on velocities, but I'm telling you right now, like under a hundred yards, it doesn't matter. Right. That's why I told these guys, like, it's so funny. Like I went to Texas And we sat a blind and we shot a deer with a 45 70. The guy couldn't believe we were using a 45 70. And I'm like, what do you guys He's like, I'm shooting 28 yards. I'm shooting all this stuff. like, why?
00:25:24
Speaker
You're literally shooting under a hundred yards yeah for everything. Why? Like I would just shoot a 300 blackout. I would just like, I'm like, why would I want to shoot a, why do I need to shoot a 300 PRC out of a blind at a deer? It doesn't matter.
00:25:38
Speaker
Yeah. I agree with you there. As long as you know what, what's velocity bullet needs to perform. That's really all that matters. So let's get into that spiciness too, because I like energy.
00:25:49
Speaker
people get People are – and ultimately why I like energy, because I know that if a bullet has the energy, it has the velocity. Yep. Typically, in my opinion. Now, if I go talk about energy on Rock Slide or anywhere, people are going to flip out. We'll talk about a little more after that too.
00:26:04
Speaker
Oh, Foreign Warriors. Oh, then we should talk about we'll talk about match bolts after this too, because really make people upset about match bolts. So –
00:26:13
Speaker
I believe, I still believe 1,500 pounds for elk, 1,000 pounds for deer. um I'm in consensus with you. And that puts my kids through weight at 400 yards for elk all day long. it's with a heart With a heavy for caliber bullet, you could do it. And 400 yards, like I said, is damn near a quarter mile.
00:26:30
Speaker
It's a school bus and they're not that hard to get close to you guys. Like 308 is all you need. And, um, but man, and let me tell you why, because I know for a fact that that bullet is still getting, carrying a thousand pounds of energy.
00:26:43
Speaker
It's still probably in that 1900 foot pounds of 1900 feet per second range or 1800 feet per second range. So it's still going to perform, which is what you do. Would you still get any of a copper bullet? Cause cop, i and and I understand now everyone's like energy is such a stupid but statistic. It's just, it's like, there's so many guys who are,
00:27:01
Speaker
on the internet who are obviously ballisticians and they work at Hornady or they work at Barnes and they just don't understand why. That's a joke, by the way.
00:27:12
Speaker
Energy's a joke. it says and and like If energy a joke, it wouldn't be on every freaking box. No, I'm a firm believer in energy. Dude, like, I'm telling you right now, like, Now, Grant, I was making fun of 30 Nosler.
00:27:23
Speaker
I don't let my follower shoot my targets closer than 400 yards. Oh, it knocked the shit out of him. It knocks him. Dude, it hits with so much authority. His 300 PRC, dude, we shot a target 300 yards to get ready for Mexico. Knocked it over.
00:27:37
Speaker
right, drive out there and pick it up. And like you shoot with 308 and just hitting it. You know what I mean? oh yeah. Now I'm not saying that it it makes it a better cartridge at 300 yards. They're both, they all, they all killed the same. at In that distance, everything goes the same, but I can tell you, like go have your toddler punch you and then go have like a trucker punch you. right yeah That's the difference between a 300, you know, a heavy for caliber bullet with energy versus a bullet with no energy, which is all, and I just see it. And where I'm going with that, I'm not rooting for a 30 for the 300 PRC. Where I'm going with that is this new kick for everyone to shoot six millimeter bullets at every animal.
00:28:15
Speaker
Everyone wants to shoot a 75 grain Sierra tips match king at animals and ah in a six millimeter, whether it be a six millimeter Creedmoor or two 43, some guys are going down to five, five sixes and they're like velocity, velocity, velocity. It's all a match. Put the bolt in the right spot.
00:28:33
Speaker
And I'm like, man, I'm not a match bullet guy. So I know you are. We were talking use burgers. I have burgers. Some my guns, I've just, i I have a little bit a lead issue, to be honest. like i don't i I have five kids. I don't want to eat lead.
00:28:48
Speaker
And I've also seen things where you hit the shoulder of an elk and you lose your elk. yeah I've seen it. I've seen father-in-law do it. And he lost the elk because it blew up in the shoulder and didn't go through.
00:29:00
Speaker
Where if I was using a bullet that was more hard, it would go through. My point is... is Yes, you can kill an animal with a 6mm bullet.
00:29:14
Speaker
Yes. But I'm telling you right now, you can kill it more dead with a.30 caliber bullet. No replacement for displacement. No, that's exactly my thing. Here's example.
00:29:25
Speaker
My father-in-law shooting 220 grain burgers in Mexico. uh, my partner had to shoot his gun. Here's my farm-in-law's 30 Nosler. We have a deer at 120 yards. My partner just smokes this deer.
00:29:37
Speaker
You can see in the video blood. I mean, like he hits it in the blood. just goes I mean, like out the back. It's wicked. Right. I want you to see if you want, if if you're listening this, you can message me. I'll show you the video. or Maybe I'll text it to you email you or something. Like I'm not going to put on the internet because people will cry.
00:29:52
Speaker
So then this deer, before I can stop my partner, this deer spins backwards and is like kind of stepping back. He racks another one and shoots one straight through the back strap, hits the spine, blows through this deer.
00:30:04
Speaker
Dead on arrival. Deer's dead right there. We get down there. That's half your meat. Dude. There was no backs. That deer, I'll send you the video when we get off the air. Just don't be like sharing it.
00:30:15
Speaker
sure You know who you can share it with, right? Just put it the internet. It put that deer, that.30 caliber bullet that exploded when it hit it's a match bullet, put that deer 10 feet up in a tree.
00:30:28
Speaker
Yeah. Like roast beef, like, like strips of jerky up in this tree. It just hits so hard and displaced so much. The energy was so wicked that it just like exploded. This deer hit the spine and blew the deer from the tree.
00:30:43
Speaker
Right. Um, my point is, is that thing hits so hard that, that I like having a heavier for caliber bullet, a 30 caliber bullet or a seven millimeter bullet over a six millimeter bullet.
00:30:56
Speaker
So like I've done both. I've had my kids start out with two 43s. Now all my boys shoot three awaits. Why? Because, and you could say you shoot one boy. My one boy going to shoot cream more this year because he's 11 years old and it's a little more forgiving on him. And I'm to change the barrel to a three away. bought a sequence is actually building me a gun for him right now.
00:31:15
Speaker
Um, but I could change the barrel out. It has a quick change barrels. Yeah. yeah So I'm going to go and change the barrel to three away in a couple of years. Um, Um, cause I just know that when you get, when you hit an animal with 170 grain, 30 caliber bullet, it dies better.
00:31:31
Speaker
It dies faster. It dies faster. And I've killed elk with two 60 Remington's, which is a six five Creedmoor. And it took me five shots. Right. I've also shot elk multiple times with high caliber rifles as well, but it's not the same. It just goes all way through. you get full penetration. It just hit hard. It just, it's a better bullet than the six five.
00:31:49
Speaker
I'm sorry. I think the six five Creedmoor is a phenomenal deer cartridge. I think the 6.5 Creemore is a great antelope cartridge. It's a great... and it goes That goes the same for 6.5 PRC.
00:32:01
Speaker
I'm not saying it. I understand ballistics, people. That's because the 6.5 PRC doesn't make it a better elk cartridge than 6.5 Creedmoor. Out of a certain range, the bolt's doing the same velocity, doing the same things. It doesn't matter. It's not like all of a sudden I get a 6.5 PRC and that bolt, it's still a 143 gun ELDX no matter what you do.
00:32:19
Speaker
Whether it's from a Creedmoor or this, you just need to know your range effective ranges. right you might get absolutely You just know that with that 143 gun ELDX, you're probably a 300, 350 yard gun. gun for elk versus a 65 PRC might be a five 50 yard gun for energy, but when it hits, it's going such a small wound channel.
00:32:37
Speaker
It's not going to die good. And like, that's why you lose so many animals. These guys are getting 65 PRCs and talk to some guides. What do they shoot? They're going to shoot seven red Mac or they're going to shoot 30, 300 wind Mac, right? Or sevens or thirties, sevens or thirties.
00:32:51
Speaker
Cause it hits with authority. It hits with, you're going a heavier bullet, right? Especially if you're shooting like, let's say shooting copper, like, heaviest caliber bullet, you're going to get 127. You know I mean?
00:33:02
Speaker
And like there's, you can basically essentially double that by going to a 30 caliber or seven millimeter in weight and have all that much more weight hitting that thing. And it just, that it just kills animals better.
00:33:16
Speaker
So I, uh, I chose to go with the seven over a 30 for less recoil and less, uh, spin drift. Yeah, and better ballistics. 100%. love... like I was kind just goading you a little bit in the beginning about PRC. I think PRC is a great cartridge.
00:33:29
Speaker
I just think that, in my personal opinion, I would rather have an Ackley because it does the same thing. The Ackley does the same thing as a 7 PRC or a 7 Psalm. um But it to me, it feeds better.
00:33:41
Speaker
I am a 7 Psalm fanboy. Are you seven song? That's what I mean by marketing, right? Seven song. If you guys don't know, it's a seven PRC without all the hardy marketing.
00:33:52
Speaker
It's pretty much. It's what it is. And it actually, I think it has more ballistic it's faster even, I think. If you put it in a long action, I think you can get a little bit more velocity out of it. Which, that's another thing that I'm like, why not just shoot an Ackley is everyone shooting these guns are running such high BC bullets now.
00:34:08
Speaker
They're running them in long actions anyways. Anyways. You're running in a long action anyways. Like, why not just shoot a... You know, whatever. Um, you guys understand that, but ah it's, it's the easy buttons.
00:34:18
Speaker
It's easy, but man, just making it make it longer. Don't to worry. And plus they feed a little bit better too. They just don't feed well on the short actions. They hit the, the feed ramp and just, it's just, yeah.
00:34:29
Speaker
Again, just shoot the standard cartridge. of that problem. Um, So i do I do agree with you that I like a – like my next gun is probably going to be – probably an R280-Aclay, I imagine. i might just re-barrel one I have.
00:34:43
Speaker
I just don't know that I need a Magnum um cartridge. and I can't use i can't use a can. So if I was going to use a can, would – Oh, forgot. You live in a commie, California. I do. So, so like I mean, that's where I do see the benefit of a 6.5 PRC or a 7 PRC is now i can go down to a they burn really well in like an 18 inch barrel you go to 18 inch barrel and now essentially have a 6.5 Creedmoor because what you're getting now when you cut that barrel down oh yeah Every inch is like 50 feet per second or something like that or two inches. Roughly.
00:35:13
Speaker
Two inches. Every two inches, 50 feet per second, 25 or something like that. So now you're basically neutering this thing down to a Creedmoor, but you can run a can and it's not because you put a can on And it's interfering. It's not interfering. Or if you put a can on a 24-inch barrel, dude, good luck getting I have a 24-inch barrel. You've got an antenna sticking out.
00:35:28
Speaker
I have a 24-inch barrel with a brake on it on my 280 Ackley. And dude, it's so annoying to carry. It's so annoying to carry. I do want to build a um a short action folding stock gun, but it might just be 308. Honestly, um I might just go through away with it and just call it a day. Like, it's just, I just know like my ranges, like it'll be fine.
00:35:50
Speaker
um I don't know. Maybe I'll, maybe I'll do something a little hotter. So I can be sure a little bit further. Maybe I do build it. Maybe i do build a, Creedmoor or not. a Maybe not a Creedmoor, uh, Tix-Up PRCs can shoot a little bit longer with the gun and get out to five or 50 The more I shoot, you know, i just feel like it's hard to find the situation. And I'm kind of one of these people who just realizes,
00:36:11
Speaker
that you shouldn't prepare for the 5%. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's like, for me, it's like, if you have a gun, there's use what you got and go hunting by tags.
00:36:23
Speaker
Don't buy guns. And like, I get it. Like guns are fun to buy. Right. That's why I'm selling so many Bipods. right now People love guns. People want the buying guns is fun. i think a lot of it is that people can't go hunting. I'm going to spend a hundred days in the field this year.
00:36:37
Speaker
People can't do that, but what they can do is buy a gun and imagine going hunting. Right. a go I'll tell you, I'll tell you what, once you buy a gun, i mean, what's this, what's the Seekins rifle, 3,200 bucks for my kid. And then the scope was, I have a Burris here that they got. It's like two grand. i mean, you're five grand in.
00:36:52
Speaker
yeah yeah. I'll tell you what, I don't know what you guys are doing for a living, but I feel like with five grand, you probably could pay your wages for a week and, and go on a hunt. Right. and I mean, let's say you're making two grand a week or three grand a week over 2000 bucks. I can get a tag for 500, 400 bucks for a deer tag and then have a thousand bucks to get there.
00:37:11
Speaker
I mean, don't buy the gun. Just shoot grandpa's 30-06 and go hunting. You know what mean? like It really comes down to to what the individual wants because a lot of guys are on the craze right now of customization.
00:37:22
Speaker
So they don't want to to look like everybody else. They want their custom, you know, my gun's capable of shooting a mile whether they actually do it or not. You know what I mean? i do know what you mean. And let me tell you, like I i specifically bought that Woodstock 30-06 because it gets more attention than all these chassis guys now because everyone and their mom's shooting a chassis gun.
00:37:41
Speaker
Right. So it's almost like, it's almost like more cool. Nostalgic. It's just like, I'll tell you what right now. Like I post a video, I post a video me just racking that third, that lever action at Turner's out here. Shout out to Turner's about to be a tricer dealer. So good job at Turner's 32 stores in California yeah and Arizona.
00:38:00
Speaker
But anyways, I got like a thousand likes on this video and like so many comments. Cause it's like, that's awesome. Right on, right on. know what I mean? Like it's a, if you want to be cool, man, like, you know,
00:38:13
Speaker
if peeing your pants is cool, I'd be Miles Davis. And that's what she says on Billy Madison. Like, it's just like, do something, you know, original. You don't have to buy the, everyone, everyone, their mom has those custom guns now. and but And if you want to buy one, like I'm not, like I'm not trying to knock bro mountain rifles, like battle from bro mountain rifles, by all means. Like you have the money to buy a rifle, have bro mountain rifles, build you a gun. I guarantee you come out of the box shooting half MOA and you're able to make those mile long shots.
00:38:37
Speaker
I just saying, if you don't have that money, you're better off, in my opinion, going on some hunts. You know what i mean? Like that, that Ibex tag behind you, think it's three grand to apply for it.
00:38:48
Speaker
For a non-resident, and I believe so. Don't tell me you don't three grand for a thing if you went and bought a, you know, a gun and a scope. Because everyone knows now, and if you have any brains at all, your scope is going to be at least $1,500, $2,000. Oh yeah, whatever you drop on the gun, you drop on the on the optic.
00:39:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of gotten to point where guns have gotten so expensive now that you can get away with it. I do believe, I'm a big fan of v x three the VX3. The VX3 is a pretty great scope for $600 or $700. You can get away with that, but like the VX5 is obviously better, like $200 or $1,500.
00:39:18
Speaker
um Some of the Razors, not the biggest Vortex fan, but their Razors are really good. They're $1,500. You know what I mean? Like Knife Forces. you're going to looking somewhere between a thousand and 2000 bucks for a scope is going to last you forever. so like, it's not just the gun. Like anyone go buy a freaking gun for a thousand bucks. It's just, you got to put another thousand bucks into the scope.
00:39:35
Speaker
You know? So, uh, man, ah hopefully everyone likes this podcast. I'm just on a rant because I got freaking hit by a legal immigrant and they're trying to sue me. So I'm just going hard over here.
00:39:47
Speaker
I should tell that story. Everyone from wants to hear I should do that one on a separate podcast. Like why this girl's burned me, but go ahead. So ah back to the 280 Ackley, how much powder are you throwing behind that bullet?
00:40:00
Speaker
Golly, I'd have to pull it out of the box. Is that something? forty Like 47 or 48 grains? See, that's what I'm seeing is a lot of these cartridges are more efficient than others, and so the reloading guys will lean one way or another because of that.
00:40:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's like for in my mind, I'm thinking it's like – 40. It's not in the fifty It's probably 47 or 48 cranes of RL-26. Because with modern propellants, you can really push these things. Oh, yeah.
00:40:26
Speaker
You can really push these bullets really fast. And that's why I'm saying, like, you can get a.280 Ackley or a.30-06 to do what a to what 3,100 Wim Mag was doing 20 years ago.
00:40:38
Speaker
Oh, yeah. With reloading now. like you And with a higher BC bullet, that's... Modern bullets and modern powder. You could take modern 180-grain, what you need understand like 180-grain and 2,700 feet per second. And at 500 yards, it's going faster than 130-grain bullet 3,200 feet per second.
00:40:51
Speaker
and at five hundred yards it's going fast pasture then a hundred and thirty gra bowl that was going thirty two hundred feet per second Because ballistic. of ballistic, yep. The coefficients. There's a ballistic coefficient. So like you, that's why I'm a big heavy for caliber guy. I love heavy for caliber bullets.
00:41:08
Speaker
They just hit with authority. And if I can, like I ended up going my out six, a little bit lighter bullet, 150 bullet, which is not a light bullet. It's just like probably the average bullet for not six. I tried to go 180. I couldn't get the velocities I wanted out of it or to perform.
00:41:21
Speaker
So, um, with modern propellants and modern bullets, you can make any cartridge you have do that. And honestly, you probably can go buy it over the counter and use it to some of this horny stuff. It's pretty awesome. Some of this barn stuff is pretty awesome.
00:41:33
Speaker
You can go buy it. Um, let me pick your brain on something. Um, I, I posted a thing and it's, uh, it's sitting over here. I had ah box of horn ELDMs match bullets next to all my Barnes bullets. And I said,
00:41:49
Speaker
This is a match bullet for shooting targets. This is a hunting bull for shooting animals. I am a big believer in not only copper Barnes bullets, which I big fan of Barnes.
00:41:59
Speaker
No, everyone knows that friends with the guys I use their stuff, and use it for 12 years. um But I also believe that you should shoot ELDX over an ELDM or you should shoot an Acubond or even a partition over a burger.
00:42:14
Speaker
Now we're going to get you going. Tell me why i am wrong. Why? Why is it that all the ballesticians at Hornady are liars on their boxes of what's hunting and what's match bullets? Because I'll tell you what I said to post like this.
00:42:30
Speaker
And it has like, there people are people still fighting. It's probably 200 comments on it now. i just did it to piss people off. like I didn't care. i was just like, just let them do it. Why, why are they lying to us, Kevin? Like you're shooting match bullets. Like, why are you shooting match bullets? Like obviously that they're, they're lying to us.
00:42:47
Speaker
So my personal opinion, I shoot with the gun likes. Okay. If the gun's going to perform, I'm going to perform. The bullet is going to kill. If you do a good shot on an animal,
00:43:00
Speaker
Shot placement is key. You're going to kill that animal. I know that there's certain, okay, so like the ELDMs versus the ELDXs. The ELDXs are supposed to have like a little recess so they expand better.
00:43:12
Speaker
I've killed the shit out animals. They hold together better too. They're to the jacket. jackt Well, jacket thickness definitely comes into play. Jacket thickness. They hold together, but they don't explode like you know, like, trust me, a match bullet. I've got, I was match bullets. I have not, I'm not like bragging about this, but like when it performs, it's spectacular.
00:43:31
Speaker
It's like, there's no exit wound and the thing just drops. I, uh, I'm not in the business of chasing wounded animals. so So I center punch through the shoulder. That's what I aim for. I love that same shot, dude. Same shot. And that's why I shoot copper bullets.
00:43:44
Speaker
You put one, like I shot a deer this year through the shoulder. It just dropped in his tracks. And it just, I like that little high shoulder, almost that high shoulder shot, like right through the scapula on both sides. Yeah. Yeah. It does freak a dude. You hit a deer there, not going anywhere. Oh, it's lights out.
00:43:57
Speaker
And I like a full pass through with my bullets as well, which on a deer, you're going to pretty much faster anyways, but on elk, um, maybe not so much. So that's why I like the solid core bullets, the copper bullets, the, um, at hunting range, it doesn't matter.
00:44:11
Speaker
Or the, like the accubons or even the LDXs. I'm just a fan of anchoring an animal. I don't care if it passes through or stays in it. As long as that animal drops and I don't have to chase it.
00:44:22
Speaker
Yep. That's, that's what I'm a fan of. Now, are you shooting with a burger? Are you shooting the elite hunters? Are shooting the magical? The VLD hunters. The VLD Hunters. You are shooting the hunting bullets, so it does have a little bit thicker. Jack, it does hold together. bear You are shooting, so I can't really knock you on that. like You're not shooting their match bullets. you're shooting their... No.
00:44:40
Speaker
My father-in-law is shooting their match bullets, which, and honestly, a 220-grain bullet, no matter what you friggin' hit, it's gonna friggin'... Yeah, does it really matter? It did explode in the shoulder and could lose an elk over. I'm telling you right now, because people don't realize is, yes, that 7 PRC is awesome.
00:44:56
Speaker
That's 7 That 28 NOS is awesome. But when you shoot that 180 grain bullet at 60 yards into an elk shoulder, it might just blow up.
00:45:07
Speaker
it It possibly could. I've never shot an animal that close before. I shot a deer at 20 yards this year. Golly. With my 30 at six. Died.
00:45:18
Speaker
Killed that sucker. I actually did shoot him twice, but he was dead. i just shot him again because I didn't want to i want to use on camera and he was just stumbling. I gave him one more. I'm a big believer in like shoot until they're down. Yeah. Um, and plus I've just seen too much stuff.
00:45:31
Speaker
I've had deer get up 45 minutes later as I walked up to him and run and run. Yeah. It's like I had to shoot up the butt off that one. Um, Texas heart shot. I did. I gave it to him. He almost went to a can. I'm like, you're getting it, dude. this freak It was, I hate cleaning those things like that. I've had a couple of them like that. i was just like, uh, um, anyways, um,
00:45:50
Speaker
So you're shoot you are shooting the burger. It is their ELDM. Or not ELDM, I'm sorry. It is their Elite Hunter, which essentially is still... Of all the match bullets, I would say theirs are really, really matchy. even there When I say all the hunting bullets, I should say, even their hunting bullet is essentially a match bullet.
00:46:06
Speaker
yeah it's it's like I would compare their their their elite hunter to the ELDM almost. like it's it's it's not I wouldn't consider it a hunting bullet. I'm sorry. like I like you guys. I shoot the snot out of your stuff. like Don't take that the wrong way.
00:46:22
Speaker
But in my mind, I know for a fact that if I put an Acubond or a Barnes... even an ELDX, not my favorite bullet. I do shoot them in some guns into a shoulder of an animal. I know for back, it's going to go through and it's going to probably go through the other side of that animal at ethical hunting ranges.
00:46:43
Speaker
So are you shooting match bolts in almost all your guns? Are you shooting burgers with all your guns? are you, are you trying some of the heavier, like the Acubons and ELDXs and stuff? So, like I said, I, ah I shoot whatever the gun likes.
00:46:57
Speaker
And if I have a Creedmoor, a six, five Creedmoor that I shoot the one 43 ELDX is through because for whatever reason it likes it better than like the one 40, one 40 burgers.
00:47:08
Speaker
I picture you as a straight man. ah So, uh, I am sure everybody hates on the Creedmoor. I'm sure you create more this year too. a little bit. I, uh, I volunteer and help help with some hunts that take a special need kids out.
00:47:21
Speaker
And so a lot of the times e now, no, oh you're fine. Oh, we did. We sponsored. We gave you some stuff for that. Yep. Yep. You did. That's right. I'm stoked on that. That's right. I forgot about that. And so ah I like to have the smaller caliber so that way we can take the kids out and my wife shoots a Creedmoor.
00:47:37
Speaker
And then I have a 6.5 SOM and it likes the 153 A-tips and I hunt with those. The aluminum A-tips? Yes. We've killed Oryx, elk, deer. That is dear definitely a match bullet. It is absolutely a match bullet, but it it hammers. Look at the energy with that thing.
00:47:56
Speaker
out of a 20 inch barrel, we're pushing at 29 50 and it's killed everything that we've hit with it. See, so now I would absolutely never do that.
00:48:07
Speaker
Like, and I'm not knocking it. I'm just like, I would rather have the, I would be like, okay, what, what other bullet can I get to shoot? I have a tips for my two 60 Remington. shoot in that ball. I shoot a, think it's an 124 grain hammer in a one 27 LRX. got that gun.
00:48:21
Speaker
Um, but, uh, I would, and i I have, I think the one thirty eight a tips for that gun. You must have a real twist. That thing must be twisting really fast. Oh, one and seven. One seven and seven.
00:48:32
Speaker
I think I'm one and eight in that gun. All my new guns are, I'm a big believer. You can't over twist a bullet. So like my new guns are all like one and seven. So let's go one and seven. Like my new Creedmoor is one and seven that I built for PRS for NRL.
00:48:42
Speaker
But um I would be like, man, I would rather shoot a, like if I'm going to like me, Drew, the Oryx tag is so hard to draw for me in New Mexico. If I do an Oryx tag, the last bullet I'm going to shoot is a 153 A-tip match bullet at a heavy boned African animal that I know for a fact and e dx or a you know an or an penetrate going to fully penetrate.
00:49:12
Speaker
Honestly, I wouldn't shoot a 6.5 either. at it at right right If I was going elk hunting, if I drew an elk tag in New Mexico, which I'm not even putting in for rifle tags over there. I put in for archery because the rifle is impossible to draw.
00:49:25
Speaker
The last gun going to carry with me is a 6.5 Creedmoor. Why bring a knife to a gunfight or a 6.5, even a 6.5 SOM? why are you bringing why not Why aren't you shooting a 7 SOM at those things? Why are you shooting a 6.5 SOM at these animals with 153 grain 8s? Why aren't you shooting that 180 grain SOM at these elk? Why why even do that?
00:49:42
Speaker
ah Recoil reduction. We're... Send in the heaviest bullet with the less recoil that we can manage for these kids. Oh, the kids are shooting them. Yes, sir. Okay. You're not shooting them. I'm sorry. Okay. That makes more sense.
00:49:54
Speaker
Yes. If my son drew an elk tag this year, he'd be shooting. Yes. I thought you were saying you were shooting. You personally was like, I'm doing orcs tag. going to go with my six, five. Okay. Well, I did kill my orcs with my six, five PRC, but that was because that was the only rifle that I had on hand that I built.
00:50:13
Speaker
Okay. Everything else someone else had built and I wanted to kill one with the rifle that I built. So you used that gun. Yeah, so i shop I shot mine at about 300 yards, put two rounds in her, dead in her tracks.
00:50:26
Speaker
So you're, I guess we should rephrase these questions then. Now I'm realizing it's kids shooting this 150 degree A-Tip. Again, i would, as ah someone who I am, I i guess they can't recoil.
00:50:37
Speaker
I'd be shooting 308 with these kids. But I digress on that. How far are they shooting these things? You're probably getting real close. Yeah, we we get as close as possible. i mean, you're talking like 100 yard shots on these things. It doesn't matter what bull you're shooting them with.
00:50:50
Speaker
The last bull that we killed with that 6.5 SOM was probably 140 yards. And you this gets locked into a tripod, I imagine, and just ripped. We actually had a mobility tag, so he was able to shoot out the window.
00:51:04
Speaker
Okay. So so it was it was pretty awesome. It was pretty awesome. So it's a real close shot. You're not worried about it. Cause like I'm looking at it like, man, like I know for a fact that I might be taking this shot at 400 yards on the silk.
00:51:16
Speaker
I'm definitely wanting to send a seven millimeter 300 caliber bullet at this animal because I know for a fact, even this marginal, it's going to get that penetration, had that impact, have that, you know, what I need to get it done on this animal.
00:51:30
Speaker
So I have, I have several hunting rifles that I kind of, pick and choose from depending on what kind of hunt it is. If I don't want to pack a lot of weight, I'll go with a lighter rifle, carbon fiber. Or if it's going to be mostly a road hunt where we're doing a bunch of glassing, ah I'll pack one of the heavier guns that I know will will just flat out shoot.
00:51:48
Speaker
Yep. So it's that's kind of where I'm at. Yeah. So my kid, um like I said, Seekins is, we're doing some trading. They're building me a gun right now for him. It's like a five pound, six, five Creedmoor folding stock.
00:52:01
Speaker
But honestly, depending on how he shoots, I might carry my 13 pound NRL gun for him. Cause I know we could shoot that and it's much more easy for him to shoot. It's just, there's no recoil. It's heavy.
00:52:13
Speaker
It gets it done. Cause that little five pound gun, even with the six, five Creedmoor is going to have, it's going to buck. It's going some kick with those 100 and um probably 127 LRXs out of it, I imagine, whatever I get from Barnes. bri me the one I have some over there, some 120s as well.
00:52:28
Speaker
um It's going to have some kick to it, and I might, but my my heavy rifles, carry it for them. It depends. I don't know. we're backpacking in Oregon, I probably won't. We'll see. depends on how he shoots.
00:52:39
Speaker
I just know for a fact that I put my kid behind a heavy gun, it's easier for him to shoot than him shooting behind a light gun. Oh, that's that's anybody. Yep. There's a reason why Brady Miller carries a 14 pound rifle around and it's because he's crazy and because he likes to be accurate.
00:52:53
Speaker
So, all right. So you're shooting A-tip shooting. So you don't have an issue sitting an A-tip to the shoulder of an elk? I do not. So at what range do you not? Like, let's say your elk's at 400 yards. Are you taking a shoulder shot on an elk with a 153 A-tip?
00:53:10
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Really? And it's going to kill it dead. Man, I would. never make that shot. Take that shot. Cause I'm like, it's going to, you might, there's too much stuff going wrong to me You might get one lung or you might blow up in the shoulder and get barely any lungs.
00:53:23
Speaker
Yeah. And you're, and you're just like, you don't, you're confident, huh? ah Proof is in the pudding. It is. It really is. Like it's proof is in all the kill shots and I get it. i mean, you trust me, you should see, i put that video out of the match balls and you don't know how many people you would have thought that I hadt insulted their mother.
00:53:39
Speaker
Right. And to me videos of animals, they killed and all this stuff. And it's just an opinion, like whatever, was you like you kill animals, it rustled the wrong way. I make fun of cream war. And also going to get, you know, a video of a guy killing a moose they created one shot and you know, whatever it is, what it is like i to each their own.
00:53:55
Speaker
Everybody has an opinion. And so you just, I try to respect them. If that's your thing, go with it. If it's not, I'm going to talk shit about you behind your back. So yeah, good. Good. and Just not that guy tries. There's an a-hole.
00:54:07
Speaker
No. it isn't And like, I know you're a good shot too, as well. Right. You don't build guns and not be a good shot. I just, for me, it's like, if I drew, let's say I drew a Gila bull tag this year. Uh-huh.
00:54:18
Speaker
There's no chance in heck I'm bringing a 6.5 anything on that hunt. It's going to be either a 30-06, 300 WIM mag, or a 280 Ackley or 7mm, you know, something like that, you know, because I just know that those going hit with more authority, and I know that it might be a once-in-a-lifetime tag at 1% or 2% to draw it, and want make sure i shoot that animal, I can shoot that animal, or if that animal's quartering away from me, or quartering, even worse, quartering to me,
00:54:47
Speaker
which that's where you really run into when you're animal quartering to you and you're trying to shoot it, get through all that front shoulder on an elk. The last car I'm going to bring are the 6.5 anything on a once in a lifetime tag.
00:55:01
Speaker
So that's, I had a 16A rifle tag this past fall. Oh, did you? I put him for 16A. Well, this will come out. Yeah, I can say it now. I put him for it. I think the draw is tomorrow or something, but I've already did mine. The deadline is.
00:55:12
Speaker
the The results will come out in a month or so. Definitely. Yeah, I drew that tag this past season and killed a real nice bull with my trusty.28 Nosler.
00:55:24
Speaker
And that's just one of those things. i had I put it in a folding chassis so that way I could make it through all the trees with that suppressor on there and not have a radio antenna hanging off my back. Yep. And shot it 550 yards off of a tripod.
00:55:40
Speaker
Really? it was that That was actually the herd bull. And we got into them bugling, which is very rare for me to get into them bugling in rifle season. And we're able to get a shot across the meadow and was able to get them down at 550.
00:55:55
Speaker
And you're shooting and that gun. You're shooting the 180 grain. Burgers, VLDs. VLDs, yeah. I think I'm shooting the VLD EH, the VLD Elite Hunter. Is that what it is? I think shooting the same bullet. I'm shooting the in my gun. okay.
00:56:09
Speaker
Yeah, same thing. I was. i moved to a different bullet in that gun. But I actually might go to a might go to ELDX in that gun. But yeah, that's, that's, that's the gun that can do it. That's the gun that I know all day long. And I know the same, even with my acolyte, I take that shot, right? I know. yeah I mean, here's authority where let's say you have a six, five Creedmoor that Alex, that Alex, it's 550 yards.
00:56:31
Speaker
No, sir. I wouldn't have taken that shot. you would take that shot. Right. Right. Even though a crew more can do it. you're probably going to not get you get very little penetration you're probably going to be going like i don't even know 1500 feet per second at that range you're going to be right on the threshold and you're not going fully pass through that's again why i like pass through right so you did shoot that animal you get a full pass through with that at like that range or no i did not you didn't right with because those bullets aren't meant for that but it probably dropped in his tracks hit it right yeah So that's the reason why I do like the copper bullets and the like heavy for caliber bonded bullets is at 550 yards.
00:57:09
Speaker
I shoot elk. It's likely I'm going to fully pass through to be a blood trail. Now the argument is if I was shooting a burger, it would have been dead. i wouldn't have had a blood truck. know how to track them.
00:57:20
Speaker
Right. if i shot her right I just know me personally and the way hunting is, At 550 yards, a lot of things don't go right. There's a lot of drift going on. A lot of things going wrong.
00:57:31
Speaker
And I know if I hit them with a ah full, you know, a bonded bullet, it's going to go all the way through. going to that blood trail. ah You don't, but you don't care about blood trails. You care about killing.
00:57:42
Speaker
Anchoring them. Anchoring them. So, uh, yeah, I hope everybody's pissed off at me now for just griping about bullets for an hour and i hope this was beneficial. I want it now. I want to go into Kevin. I want to talk about your rifles, what you guys are doing differently. How long you guys have been in business and talk about Burrow Mountain rifles.
00:58:02
Speaker
So I started building rifles probably, i don't know, 15 years ago, just tinkering. And I say building with a lot of, slack, right?
00:58:13
Speaker
That's tinkering, putting ARs together. Just doing stuff like that. And I met a guy that was building custom rifles out of Thatcher, Arizona. I don't know if you've ever heard of Western Precision, Brent Jacobs.
00:58:26
Speaker
Yeah. And he he was very instrumental in helping me get started. And he he knew that I had a passion for rifles and I was throwing a bunch of money at him because I like doing different different builds.
00:58:40
Speaker
And he kind of convinced me that I ought to take off on my own. And so about a year ago, I opened shop and trying to keep it to where a good custom rifle doesn't have to break the bank.
Custom Rifle Features and Materials
00:58:54
Speaker
Most of the rifles I build are in carbon fiber stocks or chassis, trying to keep them lightweight. And the majority of them are either heavily fluted or carbon wrap barrels. Are you doing XLR chassis? What are you doing?
00:59:08
Speaker
XLR, MDT. There's a small company out of Albuquerque. called um s2 delta we've used some of theirs and uh majority of those are all folders
New Mexico Gun Laws
00:59:20
Speaker
and out here that's kind of we run suppressors out here so the folding stocks are kind of big ah big for me because you can just drop it in your pack and not have that antenna sticking out over your head i'm calling you guys are going to lose suppressors because your guys the government is like on a freaking terror for getting rid of your guys's guns down there yeah right You guys are going to lose suppressors. Watch. You're going to lose them in the next five years because you guys are just hate guns.
00:59:44
Speaker
You guys, I don't understand how you're a blue state. It's like the most red state I've ever been to in my life. We're controlled by the cities. And the cities are getting you right. Albuquerque is getting you right. And it's just like, I don't understand it, man. You can't even, I can't carry a handgun down there.
00:59:58
Speaker
You can't like if a non-resident cannot ca conceal carry. don't think you guys can conceal carry anymore. Can you? Yeah, we can still carry. You can. I know there's no reciprocity for any state now in New Mexico. So New Mexico was open carry for a long time, but the governor that we have in office right now, she has her own ideas on the Second Amendment.
01:00:17
Speaker
and so Yeah, they got rid of the open carry, and then they get made where non-residents cannot carry at all. Really? Yep. I know that. I can't still carry when I go there. That's one of those try by 12 things, carry by six things over there now. Yeah, exactly.
01:00:31
Speaker
Exactly. You guys hate guns, so everyone makes fun of California, but you watch New Mexico. You're next. i I hate to say it, but I think you're right. I don't understand. These people just – they're too emotional and not logical.
01:00:46
Speaker
And they just – they come up with these stupid laws and stupid rules. and You know what we call that, right? What's that? Libtards. Yep. Yes, sir. You're too liberal, man. They just don't. absolutely. They watch one James Bond movie, and they think that every special goes – Yep. That's, that's what I don't understand is that it's still a gunshot.
01:01:04
Speaker
It's still a gunshot, man. And like, my God, you know how much my ears would appreciate a suppressor? Oh, I swear. I wear, I wear earplugs all the time around my deck and half time I don't put them in when my kid shoots and my ears get blown out. Like my left ear is going out. Like I'm not hearing already. Like im I try, I'm so good about having plugs and dude, it's like, gosh, it would be so nice to have a, so have a suppressor. Like,
01:01:28
Speaker
But whatever, man, like it's just, yeah, California, they, they're morons. They don't know anything. They, they think, you know, they, they think every gun is, they think guns kill people. Yeah.
01:01:39
Speaker
And spoons made me fat. but I feel people assume any of my favorite t-shirts. So you're making these guns, you're making these lightweight folders. I really am a fan of the XLR chassis. yep I don't have one, but it probably, my next one will probably be on an XLR. I met with the owner and like, I've had to see a lot of their chassis on some other guns and they have like some really slick carbon fiber handles now.
01:01:57
Speaker
And the cool thing is, which is so common sense on left-handed is their chassis are ambidextrous. They're ambidextrous. You can literally just like, move a little filler to the left or the right side and you're done.
01:02:09
Speaker
yeah yeah So like, I don't understand why everyone doesn't do that. Like it's when you're machining a chassis, like why not just why not shouldn it like MDT catch on, let's do it. You know? So that's awesome. you're making these guns.
Gunsmithing and Custom Gun Building
01:02:20
Speaker
How long have you been making guns yourself for people? I started machining ah about a year ago.
01:02:25
Speaker
Okay. So you guys are new. Okay. New on the market. I've been playing around for a long time. um I work in a, in a mine. So I've got to play with lathes and mills and stuff there. And so then I just started teaching myself, uh, just, you know, getting round stock and cutting threads and learning how to do that. And then cutting chambers and whatnot, and just kind of took it and ran with it.
01:02:48
Speaker
So are you still, um, cause there are going be had now for pre-chambered stuff. and pre-fit stuff. Are you still using like a defiance action, doing your own threading and doing your own reaming, your own reaming dies and doing that? Yes, I am still doing that.
01:03:04
Speaker
um If I had a million dollars to buy one of those CNC lates, I would absolutely do that, but I'm just not there yet. So the pre-fit stuff is awesome. Yeah. Why not? Like, why not? Like, what is the, what is your argument from just buying a pre-fit proof or carbon six or,
01:03:22
Speaker
um prefer barrel blanks and putting your guns together versus you doing yourself? Do you feel like you're more accurate? um Honestly, I would say it's tit for tat. um I've shot pre-fits next to my custom guns and that I've done with the hand on the hand lathe and they shot tit for tat.
01:03:40
Speaker
um There's going to be a profit margin by doing it that way, buying a blank versus buying a pre-fit. I got you. Okay. That makes sense. In the long run. i could buy it You could buy a ah blank for $400, pre-fit it yourself and sell it for $900. Where if you buy a pre-fit for $900, it's $900. So you can make $400. That makes sense. That's a good argument for that for sure. There's also the time versus money thing where if ah if I'm in a pinch, then I could possibly order a pre-fit and just slap it together for the time versus money argument.
01:04:15
Speaker
Are you running? are Because I am a big fan of these like terminus actions now. I've built two guns myself now using a terminus action. They're heavy. Are you due to any of those quick change barrel actions yet? Because I think that's where we're going. I think that you're going to see like, like Seekins is doing a quick change barrel on their guns now.
01:04:34
Speaker
I think the whole industry is going to start going to this quick change. So I'm very familiar with that. A friend of mine, Actually does his builds on that. So I've stayed away from the terminus action because I don't want to compete with him.
01:04:47
Speaker
But I do run the West Texas Ordnance quick lugs where you can actually install those on any action and turn them into a quick lug okay system.
01:04:57
Speaker
And so I have that on on my competition gun. And I have two bolts. I have a standard and a Magnum and I have barrels and seven SOM, six, five PRC, 25 Creed more and a six GT out of the same guns, just different barrels.
01:05:12
Speaker
Yeah. See, I'm thinking honestly that I'm probably for my next gun. Cause I have two of these terminus actions. Well, I will, if they can ever freaking get my bear, my action done, the second one. Um,
01:05:24
Speaker
like i Right now, I'm changing between Cremor and Dasher. I just have different stocks, different barrels. It literally is, you guys, if you're listening two Allen screws. You unthread it, put it in there.
01:05:34
Speaker
I'm taking the same thing you said. I can go buy It's a short action. I can go buy a Magnum Bolt and put a 7 PRC together for Really cheap. I mean, I can buy my XLR chassis for probably 800 bucks, buy fit barrel for it, and then put it together and buy the bolt. yeah And where these things really are coming into play, people who are listening to this, isn' in the NRL space and the Dasher space and you know the PRS space where we're shooting thousands of rounds and having to change barrels out. And swap barrels yeah you have to swap barrels out. And now you can buy ah second barrel while you buy your gun.
01:06:12
Speaker
And then versus before, you'd have to water barrel. bring to the gunsmith, have them ream it do the little thing, and put it together for you. And now you can do it literally like, I so guys i see you guys show up, throw a new barrel on, proof their gun at their angle shoot a match.
01:06:28
Speaker
Yeah. I ran some tests with hand tight versus torque down. And my rifle shot exactly the same hand tight versus torqued.
01:06:39
Speaker
I just tightened it down my hand. I didn't torque at all. I just tightened it down. Exactly. And it's like two small set screws. I'm like, this is it? Like, it's just two little like set screws. That's it. And it works. So are you using Preferred Barrel Blanks?
01:06:54
Speaker
I'm using Preferred, some Carbon 6, some Shillings, and some Western Precision, which I believe are Shillings that he wraps himself So I use preferred and carbon six ye and I use proof. But the problem proof is now it just takes so long to get anything out of it. The problem is you guys listening to this is that but I'm not bashing proof.
01:07:17
Speaker
Proof is making barrels for everyone now. Making barrels for for Savage. They're making barrels for Weatherby. So like, dude, it took me eight months to get my last barrel from him. And I'm like, never again.
01:07:29
Speaker
And then Dylan from Preferred Barrel Blanks, I need to get him on the podcast. I've been blowing this guy off. Those guys are awesome. Dude, he got me a barrel within five weeks. I have his number and I took it to the range, put the gun together myself, like a freaking redneck and put five bullets into the same hole. And I was like, Holy crap. Absolutely. Yeah. And they got, so if you guys need a barrel, like shout out to prefer barrel blanks, go buy for a prefer barrel blanks from Dylan.
01:07:52
Speaker
Even if it's non-chambered, then bring it over to Kevin. Kevin can free a chamber it for you and thread it for you. Then you can put it on or whatever. The issue for me with like the stuff like, like if I do it the way, you know, in the traditional way is you need go, go gauges, you need head spacing. there's a lot of vaults.
01:08:09
Speaker
When you just do ah the pre-fit stuff, it's like, Oh, you just slap it together. It's freaking retard proof. Yeah. You just slap it together and go shooting and it just works. So what we're going to go into that is I do think, and um'm I want your opinion this.
01:08:22
Speaker
I think it's where we're going. Do you think? Oh, absolutely. yeah That's the wave of the future. I think as an industry, you're going to see this happen because now my kids, like I said, my kids gun from Seekins can be, it's, it comes, it comes with a six five Creedmoor.
01:08:35
Speaker
I can go buy a Seekins barrel for that for, I think 700 bucks carbon fiber and change to a three Oh eight or a seven millimeter eight or anything else. Or I can buy a new bolt and make it a 6.5 PRC and it gets older. And it might cost me $1,300 to do that, and I have a whole other gun.
01:08:53
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. And then you don't have to buy glass because you can use the same optic. Same optic. And that's the biggest argument, right? is like You could just go and switch around. like I'll probably carry – I have this Zeiss long-range scope for that gun, but I'm probably going to talk to XLR and get a chassis from them and do that for this year, maybe shoot a – I don't know. I'm going to shoot a 6.5 PRC, it's probably a 7 PRC, a 7 PRC and a Two extreme differences, but like I can do that in a weekend.
01:09:20
Speaker
Oh, yeah, absolutely. You can do it on the same day. Same day. You know what I mean? I can go, say yeah, a couple hours. You can take it together. You have a couple hours, an hour. You've got to pull it out of the chassis. You've got to put it together. It's two action... literally two action screws that's it put it together if you long if you leave in the same stock on it or the same scope on it it's honestly gonna be pretty close when you go to shoot the range you go to 100 yards you might be four inches off or five inches off paper you'll be on paper you just could these guys dial it in for that bullet and that cartridge but it's so easy to do so uh one of the reasons why i got started is that we don't have a gunsmith out here we had an old time an old timer that retired
01:09:55
Speaker
And nobody else, because we're, we're kind of a forgotten corner of New Mexico, right? We're down by the boot hill. And so nobody does this down here. And so I started doing it and man, I, I got all kinds of business that just drummed up.
01:10:09
Speaker
I was not expecting this, this, uh, much traffic.
01:10:16
Speaker
So, yeah. And you know what? Like, yes, I am a little ambitious. of doing a lot stuff myself now, There is something to be said to guys about going to Kevin and Burrow Mountain Rifles and getting a gun that's done.
01:10:28
Speaker
Are you guys loading for them as well? Is that what you're saying? yes Yep. We just started that. So you could buy, see, that's where like my partners, like I'm telling you right now, they would buy a gun from you all day long. If I told them like, here's a list of parts to buy. And then we got to develop a load.
01:10:42
Speaker
No, no way. Like, and plus not to mention like my reloading stuff. I've got, you know, $10,000 reloading stuff. You're sitting here now. Right. And all these different dyes.
Burrow Mountain Rifles Custom Packages
01:10:50
Speaker
ah So I could buy a gun from you right now. With ammo.
01:10:54
Speaker
With ammo. Really? Yep. And it's it it's been shot. And it's been fired. It'll be zeroed, ready to rock. What am I paying for that? Seven grand, eight grand?
01:11:05
Speaker
Oh, no. um With an optics package and everything, you're looking at, depending on components, of course, you're looking at probably 5,500 out the door. With an optic.
01:11:16
Speaker
Is that like a VX5 on there, I imagine? ah Depending on what you want, yeah. We're running a lot of NX8s. You're on the other night force. us Okay. yeah Yeah. Yeah. You like this heavy those heavy stuff, those heavy scopes.
01:11:28
Speaker
I run it. I run a Mark five on my hunting rifle. So yeah, I like to punish myself. Knife Wars is awesome, by the way. I'm just bashing everybody. I'm as salty today. Knife Wars makes phenomenal scubs, by the way. it just I just wish they'd catch on to make them. up If they can make it like in that 20 to 22-ounce range like everyone else is doing now, i be I'd be probably running Knife Wars on most of my guns. they make a fun They're so good at optics.
01:11:49
Speaker
They're just so battle-tested, literally. right so bold Oh, yeah, literally. they're like Literally, like it's just an awesome gun. I'm actually probably going to run. i have this big Zeiss. I'll probably run one of my guns this year. But... um that's impressive so like if you're listening to this right now you could buy a gun from burrow mount rifles for 5 500 bucks custom built to your specs with the ammo probably a box of ammo i imagine gotta more ammo after that oh absolutely done ready to go that's a steal that is a steal and i think you should uh that's unheard of that's a phenomenal price man
01:12:22
Speaker
that That's why I try to do everything myself instead of buying the pre-fits and whatnot is to try to keep the price point down. Now, granted, if you start getting bougie with components, that price goes up considerably.
01:12:34
Speaker
Yeah. But you can you can keep a solid action with a good barrel and good components and stay in that range. Yeah. I mean, honestly, like that's shocking to me, the price.
01:12:44
Speaker
Because that that's that's basically the high-end weatherbee, the high-end Seekins, which you don't get to customize for the same. You're basically, you you are getting a fully custom rifle from Burl Mountain Rifles for $5,500 with a scope on it, done, dialed, ready to go.
01:13:01
Speaker
shows up your house, go shoot it once, make sure you're on paper and go hunting. Yep. With a dope chart, I imagine, and everything. Oh, yeah. that's Dude, that is awesome. Like, I might have to have to do this. am I might have to go to get a Burl Mountain Rifle this year for my partner or something.
01:13:16
Speaker
Oh yeah. Shout out to my partner, Jordan Staley. He's the real bearded hunter on Instagram. He is OCD when it comes to reloading. I mean, this guy, he's like a wizard.
01:13:27
Speaker
I mean, we, we get in arguments all the time because I think he is too precise, but he, uh, he goes through, does all the load development. He'll build a chart, um, component level all the way up to, to, uh, your, your dope chart.
01:13:41
Speaker
I mean, everything. You're like, Jordan, you just burned that barrel out. Just freaking give him gun. Just give him gun. many rounds are you going to shoot through that thing, Jordan? Exactly. So now back to, let's bring this full circle.
01:13:53
Speaker
Can I ask you to load me ah hunting bullet over a match bullet? Oh, absolutely. Whatever you want. I just like to call them hunting bullets. So I can say, Hey man, want a gun. I want a seven PRC and I want it shooting 178 grain ELDXs. I think it's, think that's a common bullet for that gun or 173 grain ELDX, something like that.
01:14:13
Speaker
And you could do that and make it shoot for me. And you might say, Hey, we might be better off with an Acubon. might be a little better, but I can tell you, i want one of these three bullets. Yep. One of these said hunting bullets. And you could do that for me.
01:14:24
Speaker
Absolutely. That is unheard of. That is awesome. Dude, Kevin for Burrow Mountain Rifles. I'm a fan. I want people to go and buy a rifle. I'm going to be sending people like, there's so many guys reach out to me all the time. And they're like what gun should I buy? And I'm like, I honestly, no offense.
01:14:41
Speaker
I try and steer them away from custom rifles because it's going to $8,000. But if you could build them a rifle to their specs with, you understand could up eight grand. You could spend eight grand.
01:14:51
Speaker
Oh, it's easy to nowadays. It's easy to spend eight grand. It's easy to do stuff. But like for me, honestly, I was putting a custom gun. It probably wouldn't even be carbon fiber. It would probably be a fluted, fluted barrel steel. Cause you're not really gaining any accuracy out of it. It'd be lighter.
01:15:04
Speaker
It's lighter. It's lighter. People don't understand that. They just think it has to be carbon. Carbon is lighter. It's still steel barrel guys. I'd probably do a steel fluted barrel. It'd probably be 20 inch barrel. going build one with you right now. Ready? I'm going to build, if I'm building you again, if you're building me a guy I'm going like, kevin I want an XLR chassis with a folder with a carbon fiber hand grip.
01:15:24
Speaker
I want a short action defiance. Are you probably running defiance actions? Yeah. I've done builds on defiance. And I would say Brooks, I don't want to Brooks you don't do Brooks. I want a preferred barrel blanks, 20 inch barrel threaded with a muzzle brake.
01:15:39
Speaker
You can do that for me right now. Oh yeah, absolutely. Oh man, this is cool. And then what triggers you run into those things? I've been running mostly trigger techs, but yeah since the, what do you call it? the The Canada crap going on.
01:15:55
Speaker
What do you call it? Tariffs. The tariffs. Since the tariffs have gone into effect, I might start switching around and trying out a couple more American made ones. I should talk to you about which one I'm running. I can't remember. They were running my gun. Cause I know we were using, um gosh, it's not Timney. My gosh. What's the name of that trigger company that went out of business?
01:16:13
Speaker
You can't get them anymore. Oh, I know who you're talking about, but COVID brain's getting me. Oh, gosh. There's a brand that everyone loves, and now they went out of business and you can't get them.
01:16:24
Speaker
And like you're you're paying trouble for their triggers to get them. I was running them, and now I can't run them cause you can't get them anymore. just too cheap to do it. So that's gold trigger tax in there. and And, I mean, all the triggers are good, honestly. um It's probably, what, $300 trigger or something like that.
01:16:38
Speaker
two um yeah the diamonds are but the for hunting you don't need anything more than a special a special and you can get that thing down to like two pounds for me you can get it down to about a pound with a special i don't know the exacts i'd have to look at it but i think it's around a pound i'm a two pound guy brady miller is running his at like 0.6 ounces or something like that like ah nine ounces and i'm like that's too light that's too i do that for my competition gun But for hunting, I'm not comfortable with that. I'm not comfortable with it at all. So I like, I think it's, I'm, I'm a kind of a two pound guy, and a half to two pound guy for hunting rifles. It's really good.
01:17:11
Speaker
So man, dude, Burl Mountain rifles, you guys get a complete gun dialed with ammo and you give them the load data too. If they want tot load themselves. Absolutely. So give them the load data so you can get it and be like, okay, we need to use whatever.
01:17:24
Speaker
This much 4350. This is your off the land. This is your everything. This your overall length. This is the primers. Man, that's cool. That's part of the package. Man, that's cool. I'm going to have my father-in-law talk you. I know he wants to build a 6.5 crew more. Okay. and I'm to have him talk to you. Will you build my NRL gun?
01:17:42
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
NRL Competition Guns
01:17:44
Speaker
So that's what we do is we shoot teams, myself and Staley. We shoot the NRL teams or NRL Hunter teams. yeah Oh, yeah. Have you seen my new NRL tripods?
01:17:54
Speaker
Yes, I have. Those are awesome. They're bad at the bone. we might do some trading a little bit here. Yes, sir. Get some stuff over there to you. Those tripods are bad at the bone, dude. as chad Chad doesn't have one. You'll see Chad's, I'm sure. But, yeah, I'll come out there with this official tripod of NRL Hunter series. Maybe I'll fly over there sometime and shoot with you guys. so Yeah, that would be awesome. Even to shoot together. But let me... I'm probably going to Farrell talking you guys. I know he wants to build a gun.
01:18:16
Speaker
have your number, Kevin. I might be like, hey, Farrell's interested. What's it going take to get him a... an NRL gun with a, he probably would want a quick change action though, which they make a couple different ones out there. So we might have to, have to cut in on your friend's business a little bit yeah just to get them a quick change. Cause I, I don't, I don't think I want to build ah another competition without a quick, or you can do that the lug one out of Texas, whatever you got.
01:18:36
Speaker
I just, I don't think I want a competition that's not quick change anymore. It's just too simple to change. yeah It's super simple. Plus, you can go and change it out and put it in a f freaking, you know, put it but a heavy, you know, dasher bolt on there or something, you know, and shoot it for PRS as well. But, man, Borough Mountain Rifles, you guys. Where do you find you, Kevin? Where are you guys at?
01:18:55
Speaker
We're located in Silver City, New Mexico. Okay. So we're right on the foothill foothills of the Gila. All right. Out here in the heart of the Borough Mountains. Oh, that makes sense. Now, where do we find you on Instagram? That's what i really meant.
01:19:08
Speaker
um Oh, sorry. don't your house is. I mean, we can go visit you if you want to. My Instagram is burrow underscore MTN underscore rifles. Nice.
01:19:19
Speaker
And then you got a website? We do. it's ah It's just kind of a rough draft right now. we have We've launched it, but it's not really functional at the moment. But it's burrow mountain. Mountain is MTN rifles.com.
01:19:32
Speaker
So the best way to get a hold you is probably Instagram. Instagram. Absolutely. Go on Instagram, hit them up. You guys can get hold of a message me or message the out of state Hunter, my buddy, Chad Riker, and we will get you hooked up with, with Kevin and we'll get your rifle built. That's the best deal going. I've heard in a long time, 5,500 bucks for a gun that shoots.
01:19:49
Speaker
So, uh, Kevin, man, you guys are awesome. Wishing the best of luck. Uh, hope do some business together soon and at least shoot together. Appreciate it. Looking forward to seeing those new, uh, bipods you're coming out with. Oh, the bipods. Awesome, dude. Let's talk.
Conclusion and Call to Action
01:20:02
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Tricer podcast. Do us a favor and like and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening on. Give us a follow on Instagram and Facebook at Tricer USA and go and check out all of our innovative gear at www.tricerusa.com.
01:20:17
Speaker
Until next time, shoot straight, have fun, and always put God first.