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The Copper Bullet Craze – Dale Evans
260 Plays1 month ago
This week on the Tricer Podcast, Drew has Dale Evans from Barnes and Sierra Bullets. If you listen to the Tricer Podcast, then you know Drew loves copper bullets. He has Dale on to talk about the effectiveness of the Barnes Bullets and the different types of bullets they offer. These guys also discuss some of the offerings from Sierra Bullets, from match bullets to big game and varmint. If you are looking for a new bullet this is the podcast for you.
DALE EVANS
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/dale_evans_/
BARNES BULLETS
Website - https://www.barnesbullets.com
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/barnesbullets/
SIERRA BULLETS
Website - https://www.sierrabullets.com
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sierra_bullets
TRICER USA
Website – https://tricerusa.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tricerusa/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tricerusa/
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@tricer6985
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Transcript
Introduction to Tricer Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to the Tricer podcast, where we talk all things hunting, gear, and the great outdoors. Before we begin, let's start things out right and put God first. Lord Jesus, I thank you for Tricer, and I ask that you can use this podcast as a way to bring joy to all of our listeners.
00:00:17
Speaker
We lay Tricer and this podcast at your feet. Amen.
Critique and Discussion on Copper Bullets
00:00:22
Speaker
All right. All right. ah Copper bullets suck. They don't kill anything. um I decided to have Barnes bullets on because copper bullets just never get the job done. everything just pencils everything and they all walk away.
00:00:36
Speaker
um But on a serious note, I have been shooting the Barnes TTS X bullets for years. probably 12 years now. And I could not tell you how many big game animals I've killed with them.
00:00:48
Speaker
i can't tell you how accurate they are. And I mean, out to range of 500 yards go with like l I shot the one 27 LRX for a long time. And now I'm a big fan of the one 68 TTS X for my kids and partners. And, um,
00:01:00
Speaker
So I love the bullet. I am kind of forced to shoot that bullet in California, but I shoot it all over the world because i just it just works. And so I have Dale Evans on. Dale, how you doing?
Sierra and Barnes: A Merger Explained
00:01:12
Speaker
Doing well, man. Thanks for having me on. So what what is your title? You work for Barnes-Sierra The marketing manager. So, and then we talked about a little before. So Sierra Bullets and Barnes are basically one company now, correct? I mean, look at as like sister companies, right? Like we are, Sierra is out of Sedalia, Missouri. Barnes is out of Mona,
Personal Experiences with Bullets
00:01:34
Speaker
Utah.
00:01:34
Speaker
um But we work hand in hand together, right? Like we're owned by the same company, our same conglomerate, right? So um yeah, we're just basically one big family, but just kind of separated families.
00:01:48
Speaker
Yeah, and I am not super familiar with the Sierra line, right? Like, I have shot it. I am shooting it in, like, my kids' 308 has it for, like, our... We have range bullets, and we have hunting bullets. That's save it for my kids. So I'll load a 168 Sierra Match King. Okay. That's what I load for my kids' 308s and my partners. I have my kids and my partners all shoot the same load. just makes it easier. They've all four of them. So between my two boys and my two partners, just four guys all shooting the same bullets.
00:02:11
Speaker
So we shoot the 168 Sierra Match King and the 168... um tipped ganking no the ttsx no it's copper right so ttsx is a hunting load and they shoot pretty darn similar right which is yeah i find they shoot pretty close um a little better bcs out of the sierra just because it's lead but um i mean out to what what i i consider ethical hunting range of 400 yards for a three ah eight 308 it's a perfect match for those two so like i can buy a pack of 500 sierra game kings you know for 200 bucks something yeah i mean match kings so um but i love the line so i am familiar with that way and i am shooting prs now like heavily i'm building a um
00:02:52
Speaker
NRL gun as well. I'm not shooting Sierra's in the PRS gun right now. I'm shooting a ah burger, but that's just the bullet that worked. um but so do Do we finish the podcast now? or or did a stop called off call I honestly didn't. So straight be straight up on that.
00:03:10
Speaker
I'm getting into PRS and my, um, my mentor is a buddy of mine from San Diego. And he's like, this is load I shoot into my Dasher. Just load it. And I went and loaded up the 109 burger with, you know, whatever it was like 30, the Dasher is such a sick cartridge, like 32 grains, 32.4 grains of, of Arget.
00:03:30
Speaker
And it just freaking shoots them into the same hole. So I'm not going change. Right. yeah But when I go to build my Creedmoor, which is coming right now, I will make a load with a match
Reliability of Barnes Bullets in Hunting
00:03:40
Speaker
king, a burger, and probably a Hornady, right? Like all three of those bullets those Those are the top dogs, right? Like yeah when you talk match bullets, Sierra match king, Hornady ALM, and then like you're your burger hybrid um match bullets, right?
00:03:53
Speaker
Right. So I'm familiar with both of them, and I love reloading. I love components. I really don't buy much assembled bullets other than handgun stuff. Okay. And i just find that the barn stuff for me, when it comes to hunting, really just kind of checks all my hunting boxes.
00:04:11
Speaker
I would 100% agree with you. I mean, so, you know, kind of getting back to a little bit of my backstory. I mean, I've been shooting barns for well over 20 years, probably. um It was kind of when I got into hand-loading myself as well, I found that barns was...
00:04:27
Speaker
for whatever reason, every single gun that I had seemed to like a Barnes and I was shooting a two 70, I was shooting a seven mag, you know, like 30 out six. Right. And, um, I could load those up and for whatever reason I could work up my load and get, you know, sub half minute, um,
00:04:43
Speaker
type type of groups. but So t there's probably a TSX back then, right? Like, no I was shooting TTSX stuff. well even like this okay so So maybe it was 15 years ago. okay Um, but yeah, I was shooting TTSX stuff.
00:04:55
Speaker
Um, and again, like, you know, just shooting it out of standard calibers, if you will, not these cool like PRCs and everything else that's come out over the past 10 years. Um, um,
00:05:06
Speaker
But yeah, I just always kind of used them. And and and this was when i was back on the East Coast, right? Like I haven't been a Western guy all my life. I grew up and in Northeast Florida, hunted whitetails, you know, 150 pound whitetail was like a big whitetail back there. So um everybody kind of was like, well why are you shooting copper? Like you don't need that for whitetail. And it's like, well, dead's dead to me. Like that's the way I look at it.
00:05:31
Speaker
And never had to worry about blood trails, never had to worry about like really even tracking animals. I could shoot them through shoulders. I could get all the penetration that I needed. best thing is you're not blowing shoulders out. Right? Like you're just blowing right through them, dropping them in their tracks and never have to worry about a thing.
00:05:44
Speaker
And again, growing up in the Southeast, um you know, everything's super thick out there, right? Like I don't want to track a deer 500 yards through a nasty swamp that I can't see 15 feet in front of my face. So if I can drop him in his tracks and not have to have to trail him like all the
Dale Evans' Career Journey and Insights
00:06:02
Speaker
better. So, um, kind of, you know, full circle, right. Is like that I I've been loading this stuff for a while.
00:06:09
Speaker
Um, I will be honest and like, I got away from it for a while, but it was all because of like my work within the industry, um, with working with different partners and different groups. You probably shouldn't, probably shouldn't Osler for a minute there, huh? I might've been shooting Osler for a minute. I might've been shooting Hornady for a minute.
00:06:26
Speaker
But, you know, it it is what it is. Right. So, um but then, yeah, like get into why you're shading. It's pretty cool for the reason yeah I know why you're shading. It's pretty, it's a pretty cool reason to be. Right. Yeah. A hundred percent. So, um so yeah. And then, you know, getting the opportunity now I got hired on back in August of last year um to come on and and do some marketing work and then getting promoted to marketing manager here right at the first of the year um was, what was super cool for me to have this kind of full circle moment, if you will, of,
00:06:56
Speaker
this is what got me into reloading. And then, you know, working with that brand, particularly while I was reloading and now, you know, obviously working directly for the brands. Yeah, man. I, uh, I just find that the Barnes for me are are, is a phenomenal bullet. It's just like, ah it's real. It's like old reliable.
00:07:16
Speaker
Right. And like, I've been shooting, I don't know if he knows, I'm shooting 30 out six all year. Okay. I'm not a big whiz bang cartridge guy. Like, I mean, I know like there's a new cartridge. It's like, I feel like every month right now, cartridge is coming out and i think a lot it has to do with trump um got us away from nato right like so we were we were in agreement with nato we had to shoot like five five six we to shoot like 762 right these but and then all sudden trump's like hey f that what's fine what's great and all these you know it's really wicked cartridges coming out like i know like federal just came out like a seven millimeter something or another yes seven backcountry which you've seen like
00:07:50
Speaker
it's funny because every influencer in the world has put a video out on it in the last two days. They've had it for years, all spring, right? Or all fall. And it's like the best cartridge in the world. it's like, man, like, yeah. Like, I think I heard you say that same thing when the 7PRC came out, like years ago. Yeah, the 7PRC. And like, it's like, dude, like,
00:08:07
Speaker
I shoot 280 Ackley Improved, a 260 Remington, which is essentially a Cremor, but not gay. and a um Which I'm switching to Cremor now, too. So I'm just going to have to stop my online. Take your cool mustache off.
00:08:21
Speaker
Yeah. And then I shoot I don't know if you know this, like I haven't shot in 30-06 all year this year. but every I'm going to Mexico next week, $5,000 hunt. I'm shooting my Woodstock 30-06. There you go. Because like it just works, right? Right.
00:08:36
Speaker
There is a certain point where like, i mean I shouldn't say this because I'm in the industry, right? Like we're enough's enough and things work, right? Right. Your 270 still works. Right. It's not like all of a sudden like the...
00:08:49
Speaker
They have some new 270 rounds out too, like these 6.8 things. It's not like all of a sudden these cartridges come out and your old gun stuff's working. like A 7PRC comes out and all a sudden 7MAG doesn't work.
00:09:02
Speaker
It's the same dang
Calibers and Cartridges in Hunting
00:09:03
Speaker
thing. like and Honestly, a 280 actually improved for me, which I really love for my favorite cartridges, I think is a superior cartridge to a 7PRC because it's a, other than it being a long action,
00:09:14
Speaker
it's a standard case versus a Magnum case and you just don't have the feet issues with the standard case. Right. Yeah. But, um, I know this new one that came out is a standard case. It looks like it's not a Magnum, but, um, there's just always some new wisdom cartridge out. There's always some new bullet coming out, but I just know that whenever I put a Barnes bullet into a shoulder or right behind a shoulder, ah it's going to go completely through as long as it's going 1800 feet per second, I'm gonna probably get a full pass through and i'm go have a dead animal.
00:09:41
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. And I mean, and even to kind of talk on your like cartridges, right? And like the old school cartridges. One of the questions that I got asked by, like when I was kind of going through my interview process for the job and everything, the head ballistician asked me, he's like, what's your favorite cartridge?
00:09:58
Speaker
Right? Or what's your favorite caliber? And I was like, man, I was like, it's really tough for me to say a favorite caliber. i was like, you give me a diameter of a bullet. And like, that's what I can tell you that like. Oh, want to go into that. like Like I'm a 277 or 284 type of guy, right? That's just me. Like I shot 270 all growing up. And then I like made the quote natural progression, if you will, to go to a seven mag.
00:10:20
Speaker
And then now I will say that like, you know I have... three seven mags sitting in my gun safe, right? And I've got a couple of seven PRCs because I like both of them and I can shoot very similar bullets depending on what I want to do, right? If I know that potentially I'm going to shoot a little bit further or something like that, right?
00:10:38
Speaker
And I want that little bit heavier um for caliber bullet, then I can step up to like seven PRC. But if I just need a seven mag or a 270, right? I can totally do that as well. Yeah, man. it They all kill, right? And like the fighting is like,
00:10:54
Speaker
of most of the time you are not going to be shooting that far. Right. Like I ended up shooting my buck in Colorado this year at 20 yards. Yeah. Like offhand. it's The video is coming out. I think it's coming out this, like on the 19th of this month.
00:11:06
Speaker
And like, I'm set up with that gun. It's a 30 out six. It's a wood stock. I could, I'm probably comfortable shooting to 500 yards, like because of the gun, right? Like I'm not like, I can shoot farther. i shoot longer in PRC all time or PRS all time. But like, it's just kind of what I've been myself to this year is like four hundred to 500 yards.
00:11:21
Speaker
And I didn't shoot my antelope. It was at 500 yards, came into 200, killed it. And then I ended up shooting this deer this year at 20 yards, right? Like you bring this, you, I think the gun thing is so overthought versus the bullet, right?
00:11:35
Speaker
It's such an over, like overthought, like,
00:11:39
Speaker
For a lot of people, right? Like the bullets, almost the complete afterthought for a lot of people. Which is so silly. Right. It's like, they're like, I need specific cartridge or I need the quote best shooting gun. And it's like, well, I can kind of show you that any gun you know given the right bullet and given the right load can shoot it can out shoot any gun you know out there right you could buy a quote cheap savage or something like that that might out shoot a gun works right if you get the right load right load And then you put the wrong load in that gun works or something, and it won't shoot two inch groups for whatever reason.
00:12:17
Speaker
So um I definitely think that it's an
Shooting Accuracy and Ethics in Hunting
00:12:20
Speaker
overlooked thing. And at the at the same time, it's kind of an internal thing that we say at the office all the thing all the time is the bullet's the only thing that touches the animal at the end of the day, right? yeah Like as as much as you want to say, like, I've got this cool $7,000 rifle or whatever else, it's like, it doesn't matter.
00:12:37
Speaker
So it's kind of like I look at it like photography, right? Kind of my background. It's like you have the coolest camera in the world. But if your lens isn't very nice, like that's actually taking the photo, then you're not going to get good photos.
00:12:48
Speaker
Well, the same thing goes with you can have the coolest rifle in the world. But if you don't have good ammo or good bullets to like sling out of it, then, you know, when you when it comes down to it, you're not going to kill that animal or at least kill it super ethically. Right.
00:13:02
Speaker
Yeah, man. And like, I think what people understand too, is like how much of it is like, if you don't hand load, right? When you hand load, like you, I have to be willing to, I'm going to lose some money in the beginning. So i're probably by four different kinds of bolts to put it, I'm going to shoot it Like if you don't hand load, if you're just like,
00:13:20
Speaker
I'll just throw it out there because Hornady is like the dudes right now. Like for like the the people who don't hand load. I'm go buy a set of box of 137 ELDXs, throw it on my gun, and shoot it. And you but you you probably should, even though it's like $50 a box now, you probably should buy a set of box of those.
00:13:36
Speaker
You probably should buy a set of Game Kings here. Game Kings. You should buy a box of TTSXs. And one of those bullets, they're going to shoot better. They're not going to shoot the same. it Believe or not, same grain bullet.
00:13:48
Speaker
will shoot totally different, different locations on your paper. It's just got different powder charges. And people just don't understand that. lot times, like I hit a pipe lit, I'm going hunting. Yeah. And that's such a like, for me. And they can barely do the whole pie plate thing, right? When they're shooting off a bench at 200 yards. And then all of a sudden they think they're a long range shooter and they can go to 500 in crazy conditions with, you know, increased in adrenaline and everything else. They're laying on on a rock with a tree sideways and sideways and you're not you know you're not prone. It's just like, right.
00:14:23
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm just such a perfectionist, right? Like, so like for my partners, they both don't care. Right. And I'm like, no, I'm taking your rifles. I'm handling for you. I actually put CDSs on their guns because I don't want them trying to think about m MOA. like like yeah actually Like all my, like my kids and my partners all shoot three away. and They all shoot with the CDS style. They all have the X3Is, like but the same ah just so I can work with them.
00:14:45
Speaker
But like I developed a load for all their guns that that shoots really well, right? Because like I just know like especially if I'm asking you to reach out and touch something, like I want it to work. And like honestly, the last couple of years, my 16-year-old has been the one that's been reaching out touching. I've been shooting everything close. Like mean I shot my Kuzio this year at 60 yards too. I mean like I'm like under 100 yards. i might as well shoot another Kuzio.
00:15:05
Speaker
Yeah. ah But like I put my 60 – we go to the range. We spend ton of time shooting through. That's why I shoot the Sierras. You can get 500 Sierras for $200 versus copper is expensive.
00:15:17
Speaker
yeah and We'll go shoot. you know i go to the range at least once a week, probably twice a week. This week, I'm going right now. After I got off with you, that will fourth time shooting this week. Obviously, i have a different life than most of people listening to this podcast. right like My job now is to – building I'm building these shooting tripods and building these stuff, right? So I'm just testing and shooting constantly, right? And and a byproduct of that is I get to be very familiar with reloading and components and you know what works for these guns.
00:15:43
Speaker
But I lay my kid down with a Barnes 168 in in Utah this year, 385 yards, dials the gun. three hundred and eighty five yards dials again dead i mean uh he got shot twice uh both shots were kill shots the one first one he was dead on his feet but i had him shoot him again and the buck dropped right there but 385 yards with a 308 which is going like i think at that point i think it's things touching like 2 000 feet per second and it's complete now through this with 168 i'm a big fan of that like i like a heavy for caliber bullet i like a heavier bullet yeah and i don't really buy into the whole like
00:16:16
Speaker
I know copper speed kills with copper. Like, I don't know where you stand on this stuff. Like I look at it like those barns are going to, they just, the TTSX is always open up. And the I think the bigger frontal dammer, the better when it comes to the copper. Like it just goes through and does it. Yeah.
00:16:32
Speaker
yeah I mean, i like, i like, I look at it as, you know, if I can have the same quote grain weight with a copper bullet, that would be the quote normal on a lead bullet. Like that's kind of where I'm at. So um I don't want to be crazy, crazy heavy, but also like, and you know, I know a lot of offerings. If you kind of look at our website and and then kind of compare the same thing in like a lead bullet. It might be 10 grains lighter or something like that. Usually you're looking at length because copper is going to be longer. So what you're saying is like 168 grain copper bullet will probably the same length as like 152, 155 lead bullet because it's just inherently lighter.
00:17:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it'll it'll be a lighter bullet, right? But like a lot of times, for example, like you talk about like Hornady or something, you look at their precision hunter, and it's like 175 grain right? And then our 7PRC offering, and I'm talking to the 7PRC, it's like 175 grain.
00:17:26
Speaker
And then our PR, our offering is going to be like 160 So it is going to be 15 grains lighter, but it's going to be basically the same length bullet, same, you know, like very similar, but we can just, we can do things lighter and still all, you know, it's ah it's all one single bullets and it's going to do what it's supposed to do.
00:17:46
Speaker
But I can tell you that that when that, I should, I'm not knocking horn at you. Like I've shot their stuff, but I know for a fact that when that copper Barnes gets there, It's going through and it's working. Right. It's just – as long as' going to speed, like I mean people talk about – like it just doesn't happen anymore for me. I've never – I've killed – I don't even know, 50 animals, like big game animals, deer, sheep, everything, elk with these bullets and they just always – when I find them, like most of them them. It's going be like off-shoulder. feels like a full-body shot or coring away off-shoulder elk. Like I killed – shot an elk with a 260. Yeah.
00:18:21
Speaker
So it's just fully peddled, right? It spreads out into this giant – don't know if people have seen it. When a Barnes hits, a Barnes doesn't fragment at all. It could it holds like 90 – was it like 95% of its weight retention? Yeah, like 95% of the weight retention unless it is extremely close and you're just hauling butt, right? Like that's the only time – yeah that you're going to start to shed petals right because like of course everything's going to potentially shed petals but it's really only if you're extremely close and you have an extremely fast bullet or like muzzle velocity right but most of time you're going to have this what we kind of call like the perfect flower right you have four nice little petals that come off of there it's gonna it's gonna stay completely intact or you know 95 of the way intact and like you said you're gonna get that uh complete penetration
00:19:09
Speaker
I shot a moose back in September of 2023, right? 370 yards, give or take shot with 300 Weatherby mag.
00:19:19
Speaker
And like literally the moose like dropped in its tracks, like dropped in its tracks, never took a step and shot it with 180 grain TSX. Right.
00:19:30
Speaker
Like it totally. i mean, just everything worked and I ended up finding that bullet I wish that I had it right here close but I don't but um you know had the perfect pedals everything worked and again you know I shot out this is a Yukon moose
Choosing the Right Bullets for Game
00:19:44
Speaker
right 1600 pound animal and like put it right there at the at the ball joint or the kind of that ball of the shoulder he was quartering to me and then found it in the opposite shoulder on the other side yeah like absolutely perfect I'm curious why. I've never loaded TSXs. Why did you TSX versus like a 175 LRX?
00:20:04
Speaker
So I actually wasn't loading this. I was doing this hunt with Weatherby. Obviously, this is before I even like worked here or anything, but I was i was doing the hunt with Weatherby. I'm really good friends with Tyler over there.
00:20:15
Speaker
And, um you know, we ended up going up and did a did this hunt and was actually using Weatherby ammo, but it was loaded with barns. Really? And they're loading TSXs?
00:20:27
Speaker
Yeah. 100%. I was going to hunt moose tomorrow, which I should try and go hunt moose tomorrow don't want to hunt moose really bad. I should try and go this don't know if you want to do it right now, like in January. Not January, but I need to go do it. I should i keep saying I'm going to do it. I need to go this year. I should do it.
00:20:43
Speaker
But 100% I would be shooting a.30 caliber barns. Right. like It doesn't matter. you could be like, I have this whiz bang this or this or that and I have other bullets I shoot. like Without a doubt in my mind, it would be a 30 caliber Barnes, probably in that, you know, 175 to 195 range right out of like a wing mag or something. And that's what I would be shooting all day long.
00:21:04
Speaker
Now, that's very controversial because we're in a time right now where everyone thinks you should be shooting a six millimeter match bulleted animals. Yeah. ah and i have been getting reamed on rock side when talk about kinetic energy i talk about both frontal diameter talk about this stuff and that's just there's different methods of stuff right like i had jaden jaden miller on here and he's probably of the best shooters in the world and he shoots six millimeter and everything and kills it and i just know that i am not the best shooter in the world as my prs scores have shown me coming in very low on the totem pole um i just know that
00:21:41
Speaker
when i put a 30 caliber bullet into something or a seven millimeter bullet into something and i get a full passer it's gonna do a lot more damage than if i put a six millimeter in the wrong spot that's going to explode inside of it that's not a hunting bullet right and i mean and even like you know six millimeter and and like talking about 30 30 cal versus like six millimeter or even like going lower right like you're talking about the different weights of the bullet as well. Right. So that's going to be a huge difference to me because like you said, you got that kinetic energy. I mean, you you're going to have obviously the diameter and everything else with that bullet. But to me, it's like it's extremely important to have the most kinetic energy that I can have, like when it hits that animal, because I know that I want to have the penetration and the overall like shock value, if you will, of when it goes through that animal's vitals or shoulder or whatever that it is to try to knock it down as quickly as possible.
00:22:34
Speaker
And if you mention kinetic energy, you are what is called a FUD. know what a FUD is. have a definition of a FUD, right? Because I'm like a very basic, like people think I use all this whiz bang stuff. Like I'm using a 30 out six all year this year, right? Like and I'll probably continue to use that. god I'm going to do a couple bear hunts. you're probably the same rifle throughout bear season and probably in the next fall as well.
00:22:53
Speaker
um I find it works for me, right? And I am that if I'm not a big, I don't do all kinds of crazy gear. i kind of have a very simple kit. And man, you are a FUD now if you're shooting a.30-06 or even – I mean you get to the point where if you're shooting 7-rim mag, you're kind of like feeling it, right? Because it's just – a lot of it's marketing hype, right? When people realize it's the same bullet. Like there's only like five kinds types of – like five diameters of bullets really, right, in America. right you got alter Well, we you say it's the same bullet, right? Or the same type of bullet. I mean, it's the same diameter, right? It's just trying to figure out like, cause I will say that, I mean, for example, we have multiple different offerings for like a seven mag, right? And it's a different bullet than our LRX for the seven PRC, you know, that is a one 60. And we literally designed a bullet for that specific cartridge.
00:23:39
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. what What I meant to say is like, it's the same diameter bullet, right? So like, honestly, to a certain extent, ethical hunting ranges in America, like notice the ethical, like that 400 yards and back, right? Like I know that sounds like it's so close, but it's, that's so close, which it isn't. that's pretty much where you're going to shoot almost 90% of your animals. Yeah.
00:23:58
Speaker
The three away and the seven millimeter on eight, are going to do the same thing. And the six Creedmoor, six, five Creedmoor, the same damn thing that the PRC and the Windmag and everything's going do because it's like that the bolts going be doing enough
Ethical Hunting Ranges and Equipment
00:24:12
Speaker
to make it happen.
00:24:13
Speaker
Right. Again, as long as as long as you're shooting the right bullet, right? Because like if you're shooting ah 6.5 Creed that you're shooting a ballistic tip out of, for example, like that's probably not going to do that that good on a on a deer at 400 yards, right? But like if you put all-copper Barnes TTSX in there, like you're going to have a hell of a lot different result.
00:24:33
Speaker
Yeah, well you know what bullet I shot forever? I mean, piles of animals was the 1.7 LRX out of a 260. I killed everything from sheep, deer, pigs to an elk with it, right?
00:24:46
Speaker
I wouldn't do it again, not because of the bullet, because i don't think there's enough gun. i just, like, I shot the elk four times. I think it was a kill shot, but i just wasn't, like, I've killed them with, ah like, 300 wisdoms now, and I see the difference. Like, I've seen the difference in getting hit by a freight truck and getting hit by a Prius.
00:25:02
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. so i it has its place right like i 260 went with me to mexico last year year killed a cruise year a phenomenal deer cartridge it in my opinion is not my it's a elk cartridge but i the best choice for elk cartridges that's my opinion yeah and and i mean and that's why we have all these different calibers and different cartridges right and why guys like us and probably a lot of the people that are listening to it have multiple rifles in their gun safe right now right is because it's like I try to look at it that way. I mean, I've got things all the way down to, ah you know, 243 or 22, 250. love 243. And like, I'm not going to take my 22 to 50 out there to try to go shoot an elk, right? Like going to grab my 7 mag or my 270 or something like that before I before i go out to hunt elk. But at the same time, we're not going to go shoot prairie dogs but and with with with my 7 mag, right? I'm probably going to grab my 22 to 50.
00:25:50
Speaker
um there's definitely different ways to skin you know every single cat right so like if you just make sure that you're taking the right caliber and the right rifle for that hunt and then just putting you know the right ammo through it then you're good to go Yeah, 100%, man. And I am controversial on this subject because I'm very opinionated on it. Like, people know where I stand, right? Like, I look at it like, why take a knife to a gunfight?
00:26:14
Speaker
Like, you know what i mean? You've been saving up for point. Like, and I'll say it right now. I don't think the 6.5 PRC is the best choice for elk. Right. No, I i don't think it is, man. 100%. I've seen too much go wrong.
00:26:28
Speaker
it's it's not and that And the reason I say that is – I mean, and I would even go as far as like saying that it is – like you're you're saying it's not the right choice. Like I don't even think it's a good choice. There you go. I think that there are better choices out there that like it's easy to just go do that instead. Yeah.
00:26:44
Speaker
Yeah, and I don't have the ballistics in front of me but I'll guarantee you that that 6.5 PRC is probably going the same velocity as the 6.5 Creedmoor. So let's say the 6.5 PRC, it falls off at 600. Say the camera falls off at 400. Well, if you're shooting at 600, that PRC is doing the same thing that Creedmoor did 400.
00:26:59
Speaker
It's just not having a lot of energy. It's got a very small frontal diameter, and it's just not... doing it's not hitting it like it should man i want a 40 i want like and i'll tell you right now man like i go down to the desert and we go shoot and my buddies are all shooting 30 nozzlers and that thing hits a piece of steel and it's like holy crap man it's like they're knocking targets over it's like boom right and i'm shooting 260 it's like bam st you know and they've been and the thing's shaking right you can't tell me that doesn't have an effect on animals because it does like you get that kinetic energy in there and you get that just i mean it's like getting punched by a toddler or getting punched by a man like right it's just you feel it you know you feel both of them you feel one a lot more
00:27:41
Speaker
Right. Exactly. And I mean, it's kind of funny that like people are going to get all worked up about kinetic energy when you're talking about rifles, but like, then you go down the archery rabbit hole. Right. And like, everybody only wants to talk about kinetic energy.
00:27:53
Speaker
So like, what's, what's the disconnect here? Like, it's the same thing, right? Like it's still hitting the animal and you still got to get the penetration and you still want the most that you could possibly get. Right. So. Yeah. You know, yeah, yeah, man. It's just,
00:28:07
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. don't to go too much of kinetic energy, but I do find that if you use 1,500 pounds of kinetic energy, you the right velocity there still. right Even at 1,000 pounds, you're pretty much at the right velocity. So like I always say 1,500 pounds for elk, 1,000 pounds for deer.
00:28:21
Speaker
And I'll look at that and be like okay, well, I'm limiting my kids now to 375 yards on elk with their three-year weights. yep And um my bull is probably going 2,100 feet per second. I know for a fact when it gets there, it's going to do the job.
00:28:32
Speaker
Yeah. Right. And I think the problem is now is people just don't want to limit themselves or anything because they feel like they could shoot. Right. But like, dude, like I'm shooting a $10,000 PRS gun that puts three bullets into a hole.
00:28:47
Speaker
and when you go out and I'm shooting a lot, And I'm like, dude, I don't want to shoot 800 yards. like you You see how that gun shoots
Challenges and Preparation for Long-Range Shooting
00:28:55
Speaker
800 yards with wind and things going on. And you get guys out there with a factory rifle and a box of freaking, you know, yeah ELDMs they picked up at Sportsman's Warehouse.
00:29:03
Speaker
And they're out there slinging cops slinging lead, you know, to... 800 yards so they saw some guys on a YouTube channel doing it and I'll let you guys know a secret a lot those guys aren't shooting the first freaking time right a lot those guys are actually taking shots 200 yards away at a rock to make sure they're hitting their dope first anything before they take the shot yeah I'm not opposed to you're taking a thousand yard shot which I would not do Yeah, absolutely. Shoot it a rock first because they're not going to know where you're shooting from anyways. Yeah, and you're shooting suppressed and everything else, right? Like the animal's not even going to hear it. Yeah, it a rock first. out wind's doing because, man, wind is the – like understanding – I just took a whole two-day course on kestrels and like, dude, like –
00:29:42
Speaker
There are so many factors involved and you look at and you start realizing like what it takes to really be ah an ethical, like these gunworks guys who shoot really good. Right. of these guys who shoot long range. Like I have a lot of long range friends and I'm like, he's probably more accurate than me at 700 yards and I am at 400 yards. Right.
00:29:56
Speaker
Right. um But there's so much math going into it. Right. like Like Brady Miller is a big long range guy and big Barnes guy. Yeah. Big Barnes guy. Big Barnes guy. Yeah.
00:30:10
Speaker
but he's using a Kestrel and he's figuring dope out. He's figuring the wind out and he's putting in like, there's so much. And it goes back to like what you were saying, right? Brady shoots a lot. I know because I send him frigging projectiles, right? Like Brady shoots a lot.
00:30:23
Speaker
So, um so, so there's something there, right? Like in, in, I trust Brady in that type of situation. Right. And even that like Brady still doesn't shoot crazy long range on animals. Right. Like he's trying to still get as close as he can in, in the given, you know, environment or given a situation. Right. So like,
00:30:44
Speaker
That's the thing to me is that a lot of these people could probably get another 200 yards closer if they really wanted to, right? so So why are you taking that 1,000-yard shot when you probably could have gotten to 600 and now you just increased your odds of hitting where you want it to hit by, let's say, 40%?
00:31:01
Speaker
You know, so that that to me, I think it just takes it's a little bit of, you know, maybe I'm going start getting dinged on rock slide as well. But like maybe it's a little bit of laziness in modern hunters. Right. That it's like, oh, I don't want to try to get 400 yards closer. I can just take this shot now. And it's like, well, you know, what? Why?
00:31:20
Speaker
Like, let's just try to get a little bit closer, at least even if it's a 600 yard shot, try to cut it down to 400 yards. Right. Like more than likely, there's that opportunity for that to happen. Dude, I've had ranges where I couldn't close like maybe 500 yards.
00:31:34
Speaker
But like, dude, closing 1,000 yards, you can close 1,000 yards right all day long. You could close 1,000 yards. There's not a situation where I'm like, man, if I – like my kids, Jerry Shaw's year 385, we could not have gotten closer. We had a perfect prone position. That was it. Like we weren't getting closer than that. I mean it just wasn't going to happen.
00:31:50
Speaker
But – Dude, to say that I only could get a shot 1,000 yards, it was probably dark and you rushing because you couldn't get down there. You could get get closer. If you shoot it, you're going to have to down there. I think a lot it is they just don't even want to it. They just want to sling some lead and then, oh, missed. They don't have climb down there because if shoot it, you're going down there anyways. You know what I mean? Dude, I don't even know if you'd say 40% better. Going from 1,000 to 6 is still –
00:32:13
Speaker
you might be 40% better, but like even six is a tough shot, man. Like you, you started getting barometric pressures, wind, crosswinds, canyons, all that stuff in there that people, the average dude does not understand there's a, there's all any, and your gun's probably not sighted in. Cause you're, you never, you never redialed. Cause you, went you know, you never re zeroed it.
00:32:33
Speaker
Cause now you're at 9,000 feet and you were shooting in Missouri or Texas at 1000 feet. Like there's so much at play. And you really haven't ever like shot your gun that far. Like you shot it on paper at 300 and you're like, well, I know my dope because I, I, you know, got it with the chrono and everything else. And I got my CDS dial. Right. So like my CDS dial has got to be right. So I can just dial it to 600 and call it good. Right.
00:32:56
Speaker
I would say under 500 yards, you can be pretty dangerous to the CDS dial because you're close. Yeah. You're close enough. Like I don't run CDSs on my scopes anymore because like I'm just – I like to dial and I understand dope and I understand that stuff. And I and i understand now barometric pressure elevations and all these different things that i never used to understand. Yeah.
00:33:14
Speaker
But I'm also trying to get close. Right. Yeah, man. Like it really was done it for me too. Like I've always said this. I've had the same opinion forever, but now that I've started shooting PRS and it's, you're shooting off barricades, tires, freaking one foot behind your back and spinning in a circle and grabbing two ammo. It's just like, once don't you start, do you realize how close it is to hunting? You're like, Holy smoke. This is hard.
00:33:33
Speaker
Yeah. Like don't like if you, if you're only, I think Newberg's really good. We'll get into Newberg too. Cause this is what we'll go into your Nosler days. yeah Newberg says this all the time. Like if you're going to go shoot, go shoot off your backpack, go shoot kneeling off your backpack, do all these different things, right? Shoot off of like, you want to shoot tripod.
00:33:51
Speaker
I don't care. Like I'm making the best tripods in the world. They're coming out. These might be a tripods. these They're the best tripods in the world. Taking a shot 800 yards off a tripod is freaking hard. Right. Or even 200. two hundred Put a gun onto a tripod sometime and try and shoot off it. Like if the you ever shoot of a tripod is when you're out hunting an animal, like good luck, man. You're like, it's circling. It's circling. yeah No, it's like, right.
00:34:13
Speaker
Good luck. Put yourself in awkward positions and shoot that way. Go to the desert, go to the mountains, go somewhere and go shoot not on a bench, not prone. Right. Well, and like me personally, like I'll, if I get a new gun or I'm working up a new load or something like that, like I'll shoot off a bench and, you know, put it in my lead sled or whatever. Right. Just to at least get it on paper, get it close.
00:34:33
Speaker
But once that I kind of have my gun quote dialed or have that load dialed, like from then on out, like, I mean, I'm either shooting in the prone, like, like you said, shooting off of a tripod, shooting off a bipod, like,
00:34:45
Speaker
shooting off my backpack, something right to put myself in those types of situations. And then you can also accurately, like if you're honest with yourself, you can see what your type of shots are doing and understand that you're, you're just on a range with a little bit of wind and everything else, but like your heart's not racing because you didn't just, you know, hike 1500 yards to get um,
00:35:07
Speaker
position you didn't just cross the canyon whatever it is that your heart's racing because of that plus the excitement of like finally getting your opportunity right if you've been hunting for five days or whatever else like and this is this once in a lifetime tag or or anything so I think it's super important to do that. and And I try to like push myself to do that. Right. And new shooters do that. I mean, I try to, um you know, like I've got a little younger, um, brother-in-law that is 13 years old. He's just getting into hunting and stuff. And it's like, okay, we're going to do some stuff here on the bench.
00:35:40
Speaker
But then as soon as we're done with it, like you're going start shooting off your knee, off of a, off of a bag, off of your backpack, whatever, just to be able to get you support, trying to find a way to build rear support and learn how to do that stuff. Put your backpack in there.
00:35:53
Speaker
And I think it also like helps him build confidence in himself, right? That when he is in that situation, even though it doesn't feel just like it did at the range, at least it's close enough that he can that he can make the best shot that he can make in that situation, right?
00:36:09
Speaker
And I could take you right now with a handful rifles in my safe. Any person listening this podcast, I could die one 800 yards in case you didn't steal 800 yards prone. Right. All day long. What i would recommend is going somewhere where an uphill, shooting prone off your backpack with your bipod on top of your backpack or with your buddy's backpack. You had to build two backpack up to get enough angle to shoot this deer.
00:36:31
Speaker
Right. Right. or then Or maybe shooting downhill, right? Like I got these new bipods coming out that are just going to blow the market up. Like there I think it's a perfect hunting back bipod. Shooting on a bipod but downhill so your gun is now 20 inches high off the ground and having to find a way to build a rear support. That's a more realistic cross cross canyon shot than finding a good rock.
00:36:51
Speaker
yeah Like trust me, I'm like any other guy trying to find some rim rock, right? Like a lot of times when i'm putting a stock on, I'm like, there's the deer. there's some rim rock there's a flat rock like i'm like i'm talking two things right like i'm talking a a shooting location and you know what i mean because you get as close as you want if you can't shoot it it's you know i'm a lot of time trying to find out where can i shoot from where can i find some some sort of flat topography in this screwed up spot to make this shot or where's it close enough right like 20 yards like you said with the colorado buck can shoot him off hand at that point right
00:37:23
Speaker
it was it was offhand like it's pretty funny so you'll see everyone when you see this film next month so this buck is in a ah wide open field and he must have embedded like in a little coolie or something like in a little ditch because like we were glassing this thing for an hour and i'm watching this like little like three by that i didn't want to shoot my kids like there's a buck right there the camera guy's like you need to shoot that buck and i'm like i haven't seen this buck yet right and so i'm like so now we're like it's i'm in the film you actually said this is the worst doc of my life this the worst like I'm in the middle this field chasing the animal in the
Stories of Adaptability in Hunting
00:37:52
Speaker
open, right? like yeah And I see the buck to my left. My camera goes, no, over here. I'm dude, I'm telling you the buck is over here.
00:37:56
Speaker
And I'm like, I have my bipod because this new bipod go up to 30 inches so you can shoot off your knees. Like for me, I don't really see a purpose of a short bipod in the field. Like for me, i'm like, I'll show my backpack. Like I really don't like this...
00:38:09
Speaker
all the purposes, I'm probably using a tree or my backpack, right? Like, even if I have my tripod that I'm using a tree, like if I could find something more stable than just like anchored, I'm going to shoot off of that. Um, but at this point i'm like, Oh, perfect. Perfect for this video. I'm going to use my new bipod. I'm going to shoot off my knees. Cause this is, cause I'm in open fields. I'm going to kill this animal. Cause it's moving. I'm not gonna be able to lay down prone here and kill this thing.
00:38:28
Speaker
And so we're walking, And I got the bipod fully deployed. I look back and I'm like, this is the worst stock of my life. so i hope And then ah I'm like, that buck has to be in this ditch.
00:38:40
Speaker
And he's like, no, no, no. I'm like, dude, I'm telling you, that buck is in this ditch or on the other side of this little knob right here. He has to be. And I walk up and in the film, my bipod is fully deployed at 30 inches and I'm shooting prone. And I'm like, oh crap. And I looked down this buck's feet and I shoot him at 20 yards. Right. nice I shouldn't even get it like eight years. He walks down, I shouldn't even get eight yards and just put him out misery because he was done first shot. But it's just never the way you think it's going to be in the field. Like it's never going to be, you're definitely not going to off a bench. I'll tell you that much. Like what, getting you a bench is great for getting your gun dialed in.
00:39:14
Speaker
That is it. like Yeah, 100% agree. And that's what I was saying. is like like I tried to, when I'm either working up a load or just getting a new gun like broken in, right is like that's when I'm on the bench. And then from there on out, it's always trying to find like you know improvised shooting positions right and trying to play with different things, trying to figure out you know ways that I can you know, lean up against a post or whatever, because that could easily do that. but a tree Right. Like, like just different, i did not show different ideas. Yeah. A hundred percent.
00:39:46
Speaker
i shot ah I shot a, I shot a coup's deer. I was going on a stock. This is years is before I got my son was in 2018, 2018. And, eighteen and ah um'm going I found a buck two miles away in my 15s. I'm like, there's a buck. I'm going to kill it. And my partner's watching me. I'm like, I'm to go drop down this valley.
00:40:05
Speaker
I'm all way down. It gets flat. It's coming back up. All of a sudden, another buck stands up. And I'm in this field, and don't feel like a hillside. and It's just grass. And there's a buck, and it's running. And I'm like, oh, if you stop. And I'm looking around. All I can find is a fence post.
00:40:18
Speaker
There's like one like random cattle fence in the old public land. And I run up, and I grab that fence post and hold it, you know, rear rear support, grab it. And I freaking shoot that buck to the neck. Nice. 120 yards, drop the buck right there.
00:40:30
Speaker
Right. But it was like, that's just kind of what, how it is, you know, like, it's never like, you just don't get those bench rest shots. It's not unless you're from Texas, unless you're in Texas,
00:40:44
Speaker
Throw your bench rest shooting away. Like I'm taking my partner out today. I took him out last week. I coyote hunting. We're going to Mexico for coos deer. It's an expensive hunt. We're all going down. to all in guys. It's going to be fun.
00:40:56
Speaker
But, uh, I took him coyote hunting. He hasn't shot a rifle in like two years. My partner. So he's just not a big hunter. Funny. Right. On Streisand. And, I call a coyote into him like 20 yards and he shoots this coyote at dumps. so I'm like, bad-ass. I stand up. All the dogs run around with three legs spinning in circles. And I'm like, Oh my God, you shot this leg off the dog. Shoot him again.
00:41:15
Speaker
he misses dog goes in the bushes. he's like what are going to do? I'm like, I'm going to go grab them. Yeah. like he's got three legs he's not too happy um so we're going to the range today we're going to go to the be to a venris range hundred yard indoor range there's a little windy down heret know if you guys watch the news but the fire happeningling in a right now yeah hundred yards miles from me so there's some wind i'm not going the dead right thing right now go the range get him shooting on a twenty two first like twenty two rifle cause i want to see what where you know you flinching get you used to a scope get him into his 308, shooting off 308 off the bench, and I'll probably drop him to put on the floor on the range, get him tripod on the range, and then we'll go straight to the mountains next week.
00:41:51
Speaker
Because it's like, I know that like if I could get him hitting, and going to figure out what his ethical range is, right? I'm going to be like, okay, I ethically feel like you could confidently shoot to, he's probably going be 300 yards yeah on this hunt, right? Even though he's got a dial, a CDS dial that goes out to 600, I'm guessing from his skill set,
00:42:11
Speaker
which is probably close to the average hunter, which is barely shoots until hunting season. He got a box of bullets goes hunting. oh He's probably gonna be a 300 yard shooter. And I could probably get him to confidently shoot, even though like his gun shooting, like probably five, eights groups, three, three quarter groups. So it's a Ruger American that we kind of did up for him. Three quarter groups.
00:42:29
Speaker
He's probably goingnna he's probably gonna be shooting ah a one and a half MOA group. Right. Yeah. Well, and like also talking about like the hunt that you're, you know, going to go do, right? It's not the largest target out there no either. So like that's something to think about as well, right? Is, I mean, you're talking very, very small target.
00:42:47
Speaker
So yeah um yeah, that's super important to get those people confident and understand, like you said, like their max effective range, right? Like if you know what their max effective range and you can just kind of keep them in that, then they feel comfortable in that situation when they get there.
00:43:03
Speaker
Yeah, man. And like, so like today, time I put him on a tripod. I'll probably block him on brand the brand new tripod so he can get some more range time out of it. Right. Shoot a hundred yards. His group's going to open up from that one inch three quarter to probably two or three inches at a hundred yards.
00:43:17
Speaker
It's just, that's what it's like, you know, especially in three ways. We've never done it before. And you look at that and say okay, if you're shooting two inches at 100 yards, this is how MOAs work, right? That is technically going to be six inches at 300 yards, right? Right, right. Well, that's a pretty big circle on a coos deer. Notice if you extend that out to eight inches, probably missing the coos deer at 400 yards, right? Yeah.
00:43:39
Speaker
it's exponential, right? Every hundred yards is going to grow an inch, grow an inch, grow an inch, grow an inch, grow an inch. So you got to really, people, you can you can kind of tell how accurate a shooter you're going to be by going to a bench, yes.
00:43:49
Speaker
yeah And if you're shooting you know two inch groups at a one hundred yards, you probably should be shooting past three. Right, yeah. No, I 100% agree. And saying that an elk's a big target is not an excuse, my people.
00:44:01
Speaker
Right. yeah you like Yeah. I got 14 inches. I can hit the gong every time at 300 yards off the bench. And it's like, okay, it's cool. But like, can you do that? Like you said, right? Like off of a bipod, off of your backpack, everything else.
00:44:13
Speaker
And then adding, like my whole thing is just adding that adrenaline that you cannot fake. Yeah. you know as much as you want to you can push-ups whatever you want to do jog in place jump on your rifle right like it is a completely different adrenaline when you're actually in the moment and and trying to pull the trigger on an animal versus you know trying to manufacture that it like like on the spot at at a range and i'm sure that like prs like i've never done prs but like i'm sure prs is probably the closest thing that you can get to that
00:44:45
Speaker
You should come down for the NRL match next month and shoot with us. Okay. Lie down here and have do it with like Sierras. I'll shoot Sierras in my Creedmoor. We'll do it like that. like yeah It's a two-day event and you're shooting. So how NRL works – and I haven't shot one. I've been to one because I haven't done it. I've only done like three PRSs, but I've never done the NRL. Yeah.
00:45:06
Speaker
NRL, uh, is every, yeah like that that will be 10 stages a day. Each station, you have four targets. You have to acquire them and fire at them two shots each within four minutes.
00:45:18
Speaker
Oh, wow. yeah and It's off of built positions, right? Like off this tree, this rock, you need to move positions in between. So you two at two target one, two at target two, and then you're moving to target three and four from a different rock. Or maybe it's each time you're moving.
00:45:30
Speaker
And it's the most realistic thing I've ever seen to hunting. And like, people will go do it and they'll get so mad. Yeah. it's really hard. It's like, yes, this is why you have no right shooting as far as you shoot. Right. It's like going to
Simulating Realistic Hunting Conditions
00:45:41
Speaker
tack, right? Like you got tack and you're like, Oh, I've lost this many arrows.
00:45:44
Speaker
It's like, yeah, that's why you shouldn't be shooting a deer at 80 yards, 60 yards, 80 yards, whatever. yeah guts Right. Like think about your tax scores and how much people are flinging arrows at animals. But anyways, um,
00:45:57
Speaker
Interrail is a great way to do that. You should come down for that. That'd be really fun. have tents down here. You fly in here. Stay my house. Go do it, dude. and um But it really kind of shows you like how accurate you really are at those ranges. right and like ah And you're only hitting steel, not an animal.
00:46:14
Speaker
yeah right So keep in mind, when you're not hitting the steel, you're probably hitting guts. Right. But on that whole like adrenaline thing you're talking about, like I don't get buck fever. My 16 year old has ice in his veins. He does not get buck fever. After he kills an animal, he starts shaking uncontrollably. It's pretty funny.
00:46:30
Speaker
but like Well, and I would say i'm I'm very similar to that, but I think that that is, you know, very uncommon for a lot of people. especially new hunters. I feel like new hunters are, are, are really, and even, you know, kind of talk on to like adult onset hunters when, when they get in that environment for the first time, right? Like they're excited, especially if, you know, they've been hunting for a few days or they haven't had a lot of success, like leading up to that. Right. And now they finally have gotten it to it.
00:46:59
Speaker
Um, I know that like when I was younger, i got buck fever quite a bit, but as I've gotten older, obviously, i mean, I've killed, you know, quite a few animals over my
Handling Buck Fever and Psychological Aspects of Hunting
00:47:07
Speaker
life. Um, um you know I don't really get it even on you know what I would consider kind of like my best hunt in my life would be my uh my moose from a few years back and I hunted for 10 straight days and literally shot my moose the last hour of the last like I was getting picked up or we were getting picked up in one hour and I shot this moose like at that moment right and like
00:47:32
Speaker
thinking the hunt's over, right? Like we're packing up camp, everything else and ended up calling in this moose to whatever, 370 yards or so and like shooting him. And it's funny, like I, I'm the exact same way, right? Like no buck fever, completely calm, cool collective. I, I shot a buck with a, with a bow and Iowa this past season um hunted for, you know, seven, eight days and everything. And then finally having come in and shoot him at 15 yards with the bow, right?
00:47:59
Speaker
Completely calm, cool and collective until, like release of the arrow release of the, you know, like pull the trigger, whatever, like watch the animal react and either go down or run off.
00:48:10
Speaker
And then it's like all hell breaks loose after that. Right. Like I, I almost black out after, after the fact, rather than, you know, there's a lot of those people that like blackout when the animal's coming in and it's like, yeah, I just got the full draw and I shot and I don't even know what happened. Like, i don't even know if my pin was settled or my cross errors were settled or anything. I just blacked out.
00:48:29
Speaker
Like i black out after the fact. Yeah. Yeah, man. Like it's, it is real though. Right. So like I have an 18 year old who gets it so bad. Yeah. So bad.
00:48:40
Speaker
And, um, you'll see in this film, he drops his buck for a shot, but he actually hits it the neck. okay And I can tell you, like, honestly, he missed three deer in San Diego this year. Yeah. like and And this kid shot probably 500 rounds of Sierra 168s at the range.
00:48:55
Speaker
Right. Like, he's shooting, he's shooting solid 300 yards. And he's missing deer at 200 yards. I mean, like, fully prone. And he just, like, I don't understand. What happens? And like, I was bad down a couple times. and You're like, I walk off the mountain. Like we're going like a couple of times. I'm like, I can't believe.
00:49:11
Speaker
Cause when you put all that time into something, someone misses, it can be really frustrating. Right. Like, especially when it's like a chip shot and it's like, you know, you're better than this, but he just like, I can't describe the buff fever he gets, but he gets it Right. And like,
00:49:22
Speaker
Like even you'll see that. I think you probably don't like shoot drew, shoot drew, shoot drew, shoot drew. Yeah. It's like, he's just like that buck was at 80 yards. You couldn't find it scope. Then is it 120? Then is it 200? And it's like, it's you, this is your last moment.
00:49:33
Speaker
And he shoots and drills at the neck and drops it right there. yeah But in my book, it wasn't a good shot. It wasn't where he was aiming. Trust me. Right. Yeah. it was exactly where the shot on the dome is in San Diego.
00:49:44
Speaker
But on that, the buck was the deer six in the other way. And it was his butt, not his neck. scoa But he gets, he just gets buck fever, man. And I don't know what, where it's come from because he's killed, but he's had a bunch of one-shot kills too. He has killed ah ah quite a few. i mean, he's probably killed 10 big aim animals from pigs to, I think he's killed like five deer. He's killed elk. He's killed all kinds of stuff.
00:50:06
Speaker
But like just sometimes, man, he just... melts down. i mean, Dylan, I had Dylan on the podcast and he's just like, yeah, I just, I cannot hold it together. Right.
00:50:16
Speaker
I cannot hold it. It comes in. I can't, I don't understand that. Cause for me, I'm like, it comes in and all I go into like, it's like tunnel vision. I want to kill you. Right. Yeah. I want to kill you. And if it's not, ah if it's a if I had to follow shot, I'm follow up shooting, shooting, follow shooting until I've got this animal down.
00:50:30
Speaker
And then, and then I might be like, you'll see when I shoot this buck at 20 yards, I'm just like laughing. Cause it's like such an, I can't believe this has happened. Like it's fine. I'm goofing off, you know? Yeah. Like in the moment i just go into like, I have to kill you.
00:50:41
Speaker
Yeah, it's really interesting that, you know, and I've actually looked at it before, but like, you know, my watch like tracks my heart rate and everything. And I've been able to like go back and see when I get into that moment.
00:50:51
Speaker
And I watch my heart rate actually like drop and like calm down right before the actual moment. And then it just absolutely spike after the moment. which is really, really cool to see. And it sounds like, you know, like you and I have very much the like similar mentality, right? Like you said, getting into that tunnel vision, it's like, okay, all I have to do is like just execute a good shot. Like, and the the way i always look at it is like that deer can't hurt me. That animal can't hurt me. Right. Like, why should I be scared or like excited or anything else? Ideally, it's like no idea you're there.
00:51:21
Speaker
ah Exactly. It has no clue you're there. so you know like just be calm and you can freak out and raise hell and everything else after the fact right like but in this moment like just just focus and just be in that moment and just kill the animal yeah and i think a lot of that when i talk about doing these nrl hunter matches and some of the other stuff going on the hills and shooting will help you a lot in those situations right like there a lot of time it's just like It's a panic because you're having to do something awkward and shoot from awkward position. right like yeah I can't even think of – I mean almost everything I shoot is not prone.
00:51:58
Speaker
like gar I've got a few animals prone, but of the time it's not. you know It's off my knee. Most the time it's off my knee, over scrub oaks, over manzanita, over brush, off a rock, off a tree, whatever. a lot of time it's standing off a tree. um It's because you're making it happen.
00:52:12
Speaker
And I think a lot of it is like, you're just not used to shooting like that. You've only been to the range and all of a sudden you're in the situation where you just, like you said, you finally found this animal. Now you put this monster stock on and like, holy crap, the stock worked.
00:52:24
Speaker
Oh my gosh, don't mess it up. Right. And then for me, I'm like, Oh God, now have ah I have a camera crew with me. Like, and like no du you know, and you panic. And I think that somewhere to tack and somewhere shooting 3d archery, you should be doing same thing with your rifle. And you'll feel a lot more confident when you get in the field versus just showing up and like you want show off a bench, you know, you, you, you bought a box of bullets are expensive. You know, that's one thing too, like bullets are expensive. I only want to shoot a picture more paper and I'm going hunting.
00:52:51
Speaker
dude, you can wait in eight years for that tag. Right. Tag costs 800 bucks, buy it, spend $300 on ammo and go shoot a hundred rounds. Exactly. Right. Like tag costs 800 You're going to spend a thousand dollars or more to like actually go do the hunt. And then let's let let's say that you're going up to Alaska and you're like quote, once in a lifetime hunt, you're going on a mountain goat hunt. You're going on sheep hunt, a moose hunt, whatever that it is.
00:53:13
Speaker
It's like, you've got all this time and money invested. Like what's another $200, $300 out like in the grand scheme of life right like just just make it happen shoot as much as you can and you know it's good for business right it's good it's great for you guys if people don't do it you should be doing it and and that's another thing too it's like man like you guys are buying like these whacked out five though everyone's buying these crazy rifles now which more power to you man like i'm doing it too it's fun guns are fun yeah like buy the ammo.
Prioritizing Gear Over Rifles
00:53:44
Speaker
You can't drive. It's like buying a trophy truck or dirt bike and not, and bitching about the race gas. You know what I mean? Like you just don't do it. Like buy, like you bought it to shoot it. Right. Like, guns are fun, dude. Like I can't believe the amount of, uh, like I truly believe that our new lineup of shooting tripods that are coming out and our bipod are to be our best sellers. Like, Oh, they're going to out shout, shout out like our 80s and LPs.
00:54:08
Speaker
Cause more people want to shoot off their tripod. didn't think cause guns are sexy, man. Guns are like, men's toys. Right. Yeah. A hundred percent. by It's something about know the adrenaline of buying. I and bought another gun yesterday. i bought ah a handgun, right? There's something about buying gun that's fun, right? You're buying a gun. It's really cool.
00:54:24
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, hell, I buy guns for my wife just because I want to buy guns. You what I mean? and like, she comes home and I'm like, oh yeah, by the way, I got your new gift today. And she's like, really, you just got your that yourself a gift and you're just calling it mine.
00:54:36
Speaker
So... Yeah, dude. it's I understand it. i mean, I understand it, but like I, people like buying gun things way more than they do. Like, and I said all time, like, man, like you should spend way more money on your tripod and your optics than you do on your rifle.
00:54:49
Speaker
Cause you're probably like, don't take this wrong way. You're probably not going to use your rifle. odds are that 70 of you aren't going use that rifle probably 80 you aren't going use a rifle in that unit if you look at the thing but you guarantee you're going to use your optics if you want to use that rifle get good optics on a tripod because then you get chance to use that rifle if you're not finding you're not going to kill them exactly it's so backwards it's so hey i want to we can go into health too with this but like i want to buy the end tool that's what the gun is the gun is the end tool that you use one time.
00:55:22
Speaker
Yep. Maybe two or three times if it's, you're missing, but, but like really what you're going to need is good boots. Cause you're going to, yeah i guarantee you're going to use your boots on that hunt. yeah i guarantee you're going to use your sleep system on that hunt.
00:55:34
Speaker
And I guarantee you're to use your binoculars on that hunt. But we'll go and buy a $5,000 freaking custom, you know, doodad rifle and a pair of, you know, the cheapest vortex binos out there, you know?
00:55:45
Speaker
Yeah. Makes no sense to me. Makes no sense to me. <unk>m I'm 100% with you on that for sure. But if I were to buy that $5,000 rifle, I could tell you what, I'd be feeding through it.
00:55:56
Speaker
Barnes bullets. Nice. Barnes bullets. There you go. So that was a fun pod, dude. We always end with a um ah hunting story. Hunting story, huh? You kind of already told us your moose story, so you got to tell us a different one now.
00:56:10
Speaker
Oh, man. Let's see. A different hunting story. Um... I'm struggling here to like think of... We got like 16 animals behind you on a freaking Euro mount over there.
00:56:23
Speaker
i got odd ads, you got mule deer, you got antelope. um Let's see. Well, we didn't go down like other rabbit holes, so I don't know how far we want to go down a rabbit hole. As far as you want. We can go for another hour. I don't care. um Yeah, I mean... You hunted with Newberg for four years. We didn't get into hunted with Newberg for four years. You've been on some cool hunts.
00:56:45
Speaker
I have. um
Memorable Hunts with Randy Newberg
00:56:46
Speaker
Yeah. So I, you know, I filmed for Randy and edited and, you know, all those guys over there at the Fresh Tracks crew. um So I was able to do a lot of cool things. um I was able to film, you know, Randy's moose hunt here in Montana. I was able to film him his mountain goat hunt here in Montana.
00:57:05
Speaker
Probably his mountain goat hunt was like one of the most fun hunts that I had with him. Um, because even though it is this, you know, quote unquote, once in a lifetime tag here in Montana, um, it was very relaxed, right? Like there, there wasn't a lot of, um you know, we had a big camp.
00:57:23
Speaker
We had we did it super late in November. Literally it was like the last 10 days of the season. And we even pushed it back to that because we wanted to make it, you know, this cool, fun November hunt, um, get fully, you know, full, uh, furred out,
00:57:39
Speaker
mountain goat, have them in the rut, right? And kind of like observe those behaviors. So that was one of, i would say that was probably one of my favorite hunts that we did when I was filming with Randy, as well as like any of the hunts that we did with his uncles were always hilarious and just a great time um to be in camp together and, you know, just like see that interaction.
00:58:01
Speaker
Those New New Mexico ones with them? Yeah, i did ah one with his Uncle Mike. I did the one with Uncle Larry in Wyoming where he shot the wrong bull. um like like We got on like a dozen bulls and we had like a 315, 320 bull out there. And then we had a couple like raghorns.
00:58:17
Speaker
and And Larry shot the wrong bull. He shot the bull like over top of the one that we were trying to get him to shoot. He made a hell of a shot, right? Like drops the bull in his tracks at 300 and something yards.
00:58:27
Speaker
But like at the same time, like we're sitting here watching this 320 bull. you know go off he's got max points in wyoming has waited 16 years or something like that at that at this point and he shoots this you know little small five point um but still right it was it was a blast we crack up about it have have a great time so um yeah that was that was super cool that those those were a lot of a lot of fun things to do when i was working with randy Yeah, they ah you did that, and then you went from Randy to whitetail stuff as well, right?
00:59:02
Speaker
Yeah, I worked for Peterson's Hunting as well as North American Whitetail Magazine. Obviously, that's where the Hornady stuff kind of came in, right? When I was... doing stuff with North American Whitetail and the television show there. Hornady was our ammo sponsor and everything. So like, you know, which is great for me because like I'm friends with all these guys within, within the ammo industry and they, you know, can kind of give me some crap when I came over here to Barnes and Sierra.
00:59:30
Speaker
Um, But yeah, like, like did some stuff there, was able to, you know, help host and, and do a lot of like the digital ah editorial stuff for Peterson's Hunting for North American Whitetail.
00:59:42
Speaker
um So I had the opportunity to kind of like work in a lot of different aspects within, you know, quote, the industry, right? Like kind of, you know, after the military, right, I got a degree in photography and and film um and kind of got my start as I was getting out of college, right. With doing stuff with RMEF and wild sheep foundation and everything like that to kind of get my foot
Career and Family Involvement in Hunting
01:00:06
Speaker
in the door. Right. And kind of doing a few things for weather being first light and on X and, and just kind of starting to kind of build that relationship up. Right.
01:00:14
Speaker
And then obviously, like I said, I, I got a job with Randy literally a month out of ah out of college after I graduated there and worked for him for a couple of seasons and then, you know, made the jump over to North America whitetail and Peterson's and, you know,
01:00:28
Speaker
and did a lot of fun things there. i mean, I was just like, I thought that I hunted a lot when I was, you know, before working for Randy. And then it was like, Oh, now I'm really hunting a lot. And I, and I attribute that to my wife, right? Like she was the one that was like, you really need to apply for this job. Like you already hunt, you might as well get paid for it type of thing.
01:00:46
Speaker
Um, she was probably regretting that around like, ah October, November, like I haven't seen you. Well, it was funny. I was like, you do understand that like I will be gone a lot, right? and and And she's like, yeah. And that's when she made the comment. She's like, well, you're going to go hunting anyway. like you might as well get paid for it. And I was like, okay, sounds good. So apply.
01:01:06
Speaker
i think the first year that I was with Randy, I think I did like... seven or eight hunts um give or take that i was filming and everything and then you know when i made the jump over to peterson's hunting and um north american whitetail right like that even went higher than i went to like doing you know roughly 10 to 12 hunts a year and really it's it's it's pretty wild yeah because i mean we we would find hunts i mean and this is anything from you're yeah you're spending upwards 120 150 days in the field I would say probably a hundred plus easily. Yeah. I mean, you know, some of these would be a little quick, you know, two, three day trip type of things. Like if we're doing a Turkey hunt or a hog hunt or something.
01:01:47
Speaker
Um, but then obviously we also did other things like the moose hunt, right? Like I was working for Peterson's when I did that moose hunt back in 2023. Yeah. And it sounds like a 14 day commitment. I mean, it's, Yeah, I mean, we were in the field for 10 days. I shot my moose on the 11th day. And then you figure two days on the back, you know, on the front and the back, right? 15 days right there.
01:02:09
Speaker
um You know, was able to go up to Alaska and do a, you know, fly in drop camp ah black bear hunt with like my best friend. Like that was a really cool hunt. um So yeah, I just, I mean, i was in the field a lot. And then now even moving over, right? Like,
01:02:25
Speaker
With me becoming the marketing manager here, um you know we really want to ramp up like our content output because that's one thing that I feel like Barnes really hasn't ever had.
01:02:36
Speaker
Even if you look at our YouTube and same thing for Sierra, right? You look at our YouTube and it's like, we haven't had anything on there for five, seven years. And it's time to change that, right? Yeah, there's a company that has red We're totally missing There's a company with red tips that's doing a lot of it.
01:02:52
Speaker
Right. Yeah. I mean, they're they're making a lot of content. lot of content I think that we're going to make very different content. so So that'll be that'll be exciting. Right. and And try to approach things differently than other ammo companies are. okay So in 2025 is really our fifth first big push into that um and excited for that. So it should be cool. I've got, you know, hopefully my wife doesn't listen to this because I don't think I've told her all of them yet, but um I think that right now I have, I don't know, eight or nine, 10 hunts on the books for 2025. So that's pretty exciting.
01:03:32
Speaker
That's awesome, dude. Yeah. I need to, uh, your wife hooked up my wife and have like a hunting wives anonymous. Yeah. Cause yeah, my wife starts getting over it real quick. I'm actually bringing, are you going to sheep next week? yeah Yeah. I'll be a sheep. I'm actually bringing my wife and my youngest boy to sheep and to Western hunt. cause I'm gonna be gone for six, five days each time. You know what mean? So I'm yeah i'm just bringing along. I'm like actually six days, both those hunts or both those shows.
01:03:53
Speaker
So bring along for that stuff, trying to include wherever I can. Cause like I know once hunting season that comes along, I'm just gone. Well, we we can definitely connect our wives because I told my wife that she could come with me or not told her, but like she was going to come to Sheep Show with me. And then it just didn't work out like with the kids and everything else. Right.
01:04:10
Speaker
So um she's actually going to come down to Western Hunt and be there for the entire time then. Right. And it kind of falls over Valentine's Day as well. Right. So it's like, yeah, it does. FYI. And you're so like, we don't do Valentine's That's such a gimmick holiday, dude. Well, I was like, hey I'll buy you a plane ticket and you come down to Salt Lake and hang out with me yeah while like over Valentine's Day. Do you guys have a table you got to a table at at Western Hunt? I'm sure you do.
01:04:36
Speaker
ah Yeah, we'll have a big booth there. ah No, a table like at the banquet. I don't think so. I can double check on that. Yeah. Well, talk to me if you don't, because I know that I'm going to have like Cody Richard be at my table and then come hang out with us. I don't know about that guy. Shady. We're going to have a table down there. We're doing that. So I bring him in for that stuff. And then she'll just go like thrift shopping and stuff. My wife likes to do that stuff. Well, like you said, I think that's a way for our two wives to connect and have something to do rather than hang out on the show floor.
01:05:04
Speaker
Oh, my wife. Hey, I'd bring her to the show and like, she can't stand being around me. Cause I turn on. Right. like go I just start doing, I'm just go, go, go, go. and and like, she's, she's sitting behind me as I'm just talking to everybody and going, I can't turn off. Like when it comes to like my stuff and talking to people in the industry.
Encouragement to Use Barnes Bullets
01:05:19
Speaker
Right.
01:05:20
Speaker
customers and hunt stories like i just start going and she's just like why am i even here right but uh she'll have fun and like honestly my son has never seen the snow my five-year-old okay it's 60 i think it's 75 now outside i'm in a t-shirt you can see that i'm a t-shirt here yeah to negus we don't have snow so he's really excited to go to reno probably drive over to tahoe and show him snow one day yeah let him see what snow looks like and feel it and then them suitors like to be cold for once in his life you know right yeah that'll be fun the kids don't wear shoes 365 but dude that was a fun podcast man i um am a very big fan of barnes and sierra both if you guys are looking for bullets obviously i recommend barnes uh proofs in the pudding for me i have killed piles of animals with them they just work
01:06:07
Speaker
go get some Barnes. In my opinion, the best copper bullets in the industry. um Go grab them. So Dale, thank you so much. Where we find you guys? We should give you that little plug. Yeah. You can do a Sierra bullets.com or Barnes bullets.com. Obviously check us out on social media as well.
01:06:24
Speaker
um And yeah, thanks for having me on. I really enjoyed it and look forward to catching up here at sheep. Awesome. Thanks bro. Yep. Thanks. Thank you for listening to the Tricer podcast.
01:06:36
Speaker
Do us a favor and like and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening on. Give us a follow on Instagram and Facebook at Tricer USA and go and check out all of our innovative gear at www.tricerusa.com.
01:06:49
Speaker
Until next time, shoot straight, have fun, and always put God first.