Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Classic Hunting Rifle Cartridges with Joseph von Benedikt
285 Plays1 month ago
Drew Miles and the Tricer Podcast welcome renowned firearms expert and host of the Backcountry Hunting Podcast, Joseph von Benedikt. Drew and Joseph discuss the appeal and performance of classic cartridges like the .280 Ackley, .270, .30-06, and .30-30, emphasizing their effectiveness in hunting up to 500 yards. Drew and Joseph share their experiences as family men and hunters, reflecting on the importance of knowledge and practical experience over the latest firearm trends. Tune in for valuable insights into traditional cartridges and the real-world application of firearms in hunting.
JOSEPH VON BENEDIKT
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/josephvonbenedikt/
TRICER USA
Website – https://tricerusa.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tricerusa/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tricerusa/
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@tricer6985
#Tricer #TricerTripods #WesternHunting #ElkHunting #BackcountryHunter #LongRangeHunting #HuntPodcast #PublicLandHunter #HuntingLifestyle #RifleSeason #MountainHunting #280Ackley #3030Win #HuntTheWest #HuntingCulture #DIYHunter #FieldToTable #HunterConservationist #WesternBigGame
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Focus on Hunting and Faith
00:00:00
Speaker
You are listening to the Tricer podcast, where we talk all things hunting, gear, and the great outdoors. Before we begin, let's start things out right and put God first. Lord Jesus, I thank you for Tricer, and I ask that you can use this podcast as a way to bring joy to all of our listeners.
00:00:17
Speaker
We lay Tricer and this podcast at your feet. Amen.
Guest Introduction: Joseph and Firearms Expertise
00:00:22
Speaker
Man, I am really excited for today's podcast. um I have a guy on who I don't listen to a ton of podcasts, but when I do, I definitely listen to on Benedict's podcast.
00:00:33
Speaker
And ah he's just such a knowledgeable dude. If I want to know about caliber, especially some of the weird calibers that I like, Joseph's the guy whose YouTube videos I'm watching.
00:00:44
Speaker
he is like the, you know, just one of the authorities when it comes to firearms in the industry. And somebody who I respect a lot. So, Joseph, how you doing, man?
Personal Connections and Shared Experiences
00:00:55
Speaker
I'm good.
00:00:56
Speaker
Thanks for that resounding introduction, Drew. I don't think I deserve it, but I appreciate it. Oh, man. Like, I don't listen to a ton of hunting pods anymore, but I do love listening to your stuff just because...
00:01:11
Speaker
I like real cut and dry. Like this is what it's like. You know, I like knowledgeable things listen to. And your stuff is just, I know when I hear you talk, there's no BS there. It's from real world experience and a ton of just research, actually more research than I would care to ever do. You're kind of, you're kind of a gun, kind of a gun nerd.
00:01:29
Speaker
and i'll I'll wear the title with pride, my friend. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. And we were actually talking before we got on the pod, um, very similar lives, right? weve but We both have kids kind of in the, you know, the 10 to 10 to 18 year old range, you know, getting out and hunting with them, dealing with both had knee surgeries on our kids. Our kids are driving, doing stuff, but, um, just similar times in our lives with, you know, doing the family thing and the hunting thing. And, uh, I just wanted to have you on, man, and just talk about Joseph O. Benedict, talk about some and firearms and have a good time with you.
Cartridge Discussion: The 280 Ackley and New Trends
00:02:02
Speaker
That sounds good. We were saying before too, you are the reason why 280 Ackley is my saving favorite 7mm cartridge.
00:02:13
Speaker
Well, I, uh, I'm glad to have, um, had a good influence on you there, Drew. It's, it's an extraordinary cartridge. It's one that I've used for a long time. And it's one of those grassroots cartridges that was never really promoted by any big company. It came to fame purely on its own merits. And there's a lot of characteristics to love, but that's one of the things that just makes it near and dear to my heart is that it, it and earned its feathers the hard way.
00:02:43
Speaker
It really does. And I've, um like one thing you'll learn about me, like anyone who hears me talk for any period of time is I like standard action cartridges.
00:02:55
Speaker
I'm not a big Magnum guy just for like feeding issues, more rounds down chamber. You know, it's just, I'm a standard guy and the 280 Ackley really does. You can stack it up against a seven mag pretty darn near out to ethical hunting ranges or out to whatever you would call it. I mean, even out to 700 yards, no problem.
00:03:14
Speaker
And that's kind of what I wanted to have you on today to talk about was cartridges and the, you know, the, we get all these new cartridges every year. there's a new cartridge and you feel like, man, ah my grandpa's 30 out six isn't going to work. I have to get that new cartridge or I'm going able to kill something.
00:03:29
Speaker
And I feel like there's this, which is good. I mean, I'm in the market, right? I saw you can't hunt without a tricer tripod. If you don't have tricer tripod, you're probably not going to kill a bear this spring or a deer this fall. Right. It's, I want you to, I want you to think that and I want you to buy my stuff, but man, like,
00:03:44
Speaker
I feel like so many guys get caught up in the cartridge thing and then they don't go hunting. Right. Cause buying the gun and and i know guns are fun, right? Guns. i mean, I experiencing it right now with my new bipod, we're selling bipods like crazy cause gun parts and guns are fun for men. But, uh, man, like,
00:04:00
Speaker
let's Let's talk about some of those older cartridges. Let's talk about the Aco. Let's talk about the.270, the.30-06, the.30-30. Sure. And sure what those ballistically can do out to, let's say, fine I think sometimes you got to really try to go shoot past 500 yards, right, yeah in in hunting, right? You really do.
00:04:16
Speaker
So out to 500 yards, let's talk about those calibers.
Debate: Old vs. New Cartridges
00:04:19
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, if you if you're running the older stuff in a traditional rifle with a traditionally slow rifling twist rate, that kind of prevents you from shooting the best of the modern high BC, you know really aerodynamic, heavy for caliber bullets on the market. However, inside of practical hunting distances where, you know most hunters have the skill to to shoot ethically,
00:04:45
Speaker
yeah They do really, really well. A.30-06 is still one of the most versatile cartridges ever designed..270 is good..30-30 is a brush gun, you know, a big timber cartridge, but inside its comfort zone 150 yards or so, maybe a bit more if you're real serious with it, it's pretty capable. So I'm going to debate you here just a little bit, Drew, because...
00:05:12
Speaker
500 yards i do think the new cartridges are making you know they they have some facets some a lineup of small features that combine into one big hole that does give them a significant advantage at 500 yards but i will say to 300 yards i don't think there's any reason that you need anything more than a 30-06 for you know your general broad spectrum of um we'll call it American North American, big game up to an, including moose. Uh, personally, I want more on brown bear, but a lot of brown bears have been shot with 30 out sixes and indeed smaller cartridges.
00:05:52
Speaker
Yeah. And I agree with you. i don't disagree with that at all. Um, there's the bullet is the, really the X factor in all of this. Right. So I, I will agree. So let's say we do, I wasn't throwing that in there, but let's say we do a grandpa's gun and it's running like a one in 12 twist.
00:06:07
Speaker
You are going to limited, and but now modern day cartridges or modern day rifles are coming a little bit faster. Right. I mean, you go get a new, I wouldn't bought. So think I told you this, I've been shooting ah a Browning, um, X-Bolt. I have a bunch of custom rifles. i got the 280 Ackley's. I've got the 260 Remington's. I like, I'm a big 260 Remington guy.
00:06:26
Speaker
I've just now got my first Creedmoor because I've been so holding out for so long, but it's it's funny. 260 is about to die because it's just, it's just too hard to find. But, uh, but that 30 odd six I picked up from Browning last year, every animal I pointed it out, out to 400 yards dropped one bolt this year.
00:06:45
Speaker
yeah I think I killed eight animals, deer, antelope, everything with it. It just ah it just works. and you know And I did hand load i did handload for it. So i was actually on that one. I'm a big monometal guy.
00:06:56
Speaker
i did load the 152 hammers and I'm shooting them 3160 out of it. So I mean, it's it's rip it's ripping 3160. And now it's about 450 yards. it's just ah It has all the energy and all the velocity I need for it to do what I need to do.
00:07:11
Speaker
Sure. It's almost a magical combination of good authority, which of course is a, you know, a lineup of several features. You got bullet weight, you got frontal diameter, adequate velocity, and so forth at a, you know, a level of recoil that most shooters can manage with a little bit of practice. And so,
00:07:32
Speaker
Yeah, the.30-06 is a great package. And in fact, you know, I did a couple of articles for Shooting Times, and then I followed that up with a podcast some years ago titled Getting the Best Out of Your.30-06.
00:07:45
Speaker
You can load that cartridge. You mentioned hand-loading. You can load it with some pretty modern bullets. You may not get those 210, 220-grain super sleek heavy bullets going fast enough to be useful out of it.
00:07:57
Speaker
But man, you can shoot something like 190 grain Nosler Acubon long range or 175 grain Barnes LRX in there and get them going pretty fast with modern propellants.
00:08:11
Speaker
You're kind of half closing the gap between it and the 300 Win Mag in velocity. If you do that, your hand loads will outrun most of the 300 Win Mag factory loads on the market because Well, most guys are buying, you know, and the traditional inexpensive ammo for their 300 wind mag with flat base bullets, lead tips and so forth.
00:08:32
Speaker
They just don't have that great aerodynamics. And at 300 yards with a, you know, really ultra modern bullet properly hand loaded near 30 out of six, it's going to hit harder than those inexpensive 300 wind mag loads.
00:08:46
Speaker
That's pretty cool.
Bullet Preferences: Heavy Calibers vs. High BC Bullets
00:08:48
Speaker
It is cool. And that's, I am a heavy for caliber guy. Like I know, i don't think you're a 308 fan, right? You're not a 308 fan. You know, within its realm, I actually really like it. I think it's a great whitetail cartridge for use inside 250 yards. I love it in my M1A. I've got a really nice national national match Springfield M1A.
00:09:07
Speaker
But for hunting in the West, in wide open country, No, it lacks two things for me. It lacks muzzle velocity and it lacks the ability to push heavy for caliber bullets at useful velocities. The.30-06 crosses the cusp into that realm. Yes.
00:09:24
Speaker
So I will debate you on that one a little bit. I like it. I have turned... i have turned the three away into my son's this is a gun that i love for kids and even my partners it's it's an entry-level gun that i love and what i load in that thing is i'm running uh i am r4064 i'm looking at right now on the reloading bench and i'm running the 168 ttsx out of it and i'm pushing them around 2700 26 to 2700 feet second and it is a 400 yard gun all day long um all day long and it is a four hundred yard gun all day long
00:09:55
Speaker
um all day long And we've killed elk out to like 350. My kids shot a really good mule deer last year at 385. um But I have to know its abilities. And the only reason I chose 308 over 65 Creedmoor is dealing with kids.
00:10:10
Speaker
I've had some... I've had some circuses. Like they were shooting two 43 at first. It was two 43 and I've had some circuses two 43 where I feel like the large funnel diameter of those three or eight bullets really does inflict some more damage when it gets there. Right? Like you get me a little marginal, a little bit further back, get a liver shot or something.
00:10:28
Speaker
It put a little more, put some more uh you know damage there when i use it and that's what we do it for but i do load heavy for caliber in that and in my 30-06 i am heavy for caliber guy it's the first time i jumped down i was low in the 175s and i just i'm not a big velocity guy i really know i'm a bc guy i'm a downrange guy because i understand that yes while we used to shoot you know 270 super flat and fast well, it starts fading around 300 yards, right? Sure.
00:10:56
Speaker
So there is this, it's this, there's this weird balance you do when you reload with a 30 out six is you can't get the velocities you really want out of those heavy for caliber bullets, right? Like you really do want to get them up there over 2,800, you know, and you can't, you're kind of right there in that 26, 2700 range.
00:11:11
Speaker
And then I was, ended up loading some of those hammers and I'm thinking you've messed with hammers a little bit. and sometimes they just, they just work. And I'm friends with Steve and, Man, that thing just, it was shooting him 3160 out of a 30-06.
00:11:25
Speaker
And it's just it just cooked. It's moving. and But honestly, it's almost the same exact, by time you get 400 yards, it's doing the same thing that that LRX is doing, right? Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:36
Speaker
Then of course the LRX still has the weight. Yeah. 168 grain LRX. Yeah. No, I kind of went that way for a while and I had a lot of fun playing with the ultra lights. I was shooting 110 grain bullet out of a two 70, just screaming and the hundred and thirty s out of,
00:11:55
Speaker
You know, 30 out six and 300 WSM and so forth. It's a lot of fun, but, but you're right. i mean, they're laser flat to 250, 300 yards. And then they just, the wind goes out of their sails and they kind of fall limp because there's, there's not the aerodynamics there, but.
00:12:09
Speaker
you know i the the load that i settled on for hunting with the 308 most of the time is 150 grain barnes ttsx because it penetrates like a 165 or even a 180 traditional lead core you know cup and core bullet and yet out of a 308 i can push it pretty fast and like 20 yeah getting close to that i've shot black bears and antelope and various things with that but You know, anymore, when when somebody says.30 caliber, unless you're talking a monometal bullet, i my brain goes to 200 grain and heavier bullets.
00:12:45
Speaker
Really? Yeah. I just ah love the Hornady 200 grain ELDX. ah My favorite currently is probably the 200 grain Federal Terminal Ascent.
00:12:58
Speaker
That is just a tremendous bullet. As you probably know, the rear half of that is kind of monometal. It's got a front lead core bonded in place. super aerodynamic bullet. And that in any of the.30 caliber Magnums is just a magic sledgehammer on game Yeah, I can say, so I want to talk about weight because now you've brought something up that's very controversial right now. And sure I know I have a lot of friends on Rock Slide. We sponsor Rock Slide.
00:13:24
Speaker
But I make i get them really mad because weight doesn't matter, Joseph. Everyone over there now is shooting a six millimeter bullet. They're actually shooting a Sierra Match King, the tip Match King 80 grain. And I know they're going to come and get me. Come and get me, Rock Slide. It's fine. because I'm a fud for shooting 30 out of six.
00:13:42
Speaker
And energy doesn't matter. right? Energy doesn't matter. Large frontal networks and matter. It's bullet placement. And that's what matters. And man, I'll tell you what, I go and shoot my six, five at a target at 400 yards and it hits the metal target.
00:13:58
Speaker
then I pick up my father's, father-in-law's 30 Nossler with a 220 grand burger and shoot that same target. The target falls over. Yeah. ye Man, why why do you care about the weight of the bullet?
00:14:09
Speaker
Like, cause right now it's, we're in this big push where it's like, no, we want longer, skinnier, lighter bullets that go, you know, are more, have more BCs and do more. And they don't want blood trails. They want, they want just to just explode inside and do it. So yeah that's, there's a big push for that right now. I mean, in fact, like if you, if I said this, there'd be a 10 page thread on rock slide bashing me.
00:14:29
Speaker
ah so Are you wanting me to address this, Drew? Is that why you're commenting on this or are we just mentioning that it's a trend? No, no. want you to address it. I want to address like, why would you care? Because I agree with you. I tend to look at energy.
00:14:42
Speaker
I still look at 1,500 pounds of energy. I still look at 1,000 pounds of energy. And I feel like when there's when you have that energy, you have the velocity as well that you need. It, you know, energy to me is, is useful, but it is a flawed metric because it's so heavily influenced by velocity. You can crank up a super light 22, 250 bullet and cause some, you know, create some very impressive energy numbers. And yet that's, in my opinion, still never going to be a good elk cartridge. Right.
00:15:11
Speaker
So I, I tend to think of cartridges, And kind of my own little world as authoritative, right? How much authority do they have? And I'll rely more on the TKL, the Taylor knockout formula, which ah instead of just using velocity and bullet weight,
00:15:31
Speaker
to to calculate energy it uses velocity bullet weight and frontal diameter so there it adds in that ultra crucial additional component now it's still not perfect right there are so many different ways to calculate killing effectiveness and none of them are perfect but what i can say is you know, there are, there are some flaws in using small cartridges and little slender bullets.
00:16:02
Speaker
And if you recognize those flaws and you're willing to hunt within their parameters, fine, go for it. I'll never say that, you know, ah a six mm Creedmoor with 108 grain ELD match bullet isn't more effective than most arrows. Right. And people shoot all kinds of stuff with arrows.
00:16:19
Speaker
You just got to pick your angle, your shot angle. But you know if you're relying on a conversation about ballistic coefficient, BC, or sectional density, and you're saying that your 6mm Creedmoor has more than bigger cartridges, you're smoking something a little funny because they don't. You cannot get ah you know the same ballistic coefficient out of a 108-grain 6mm bullet as you can out of 200 220
00:16:50
Speaker
whatever grain 30 caliber or 175 to 180 grain 7mm caliber it just isn't there plus the bullet weight factor you know i don't know if that's as important as bullet construction and just like when you're shooting an arrow when you're shooting a thin jacketed target type bullet you have to pick your shot angles If you're willing to do that, fine, go for it folks. But if you're like me and you've put in a lot of time to get in where there might be a really big bull elk or whatnot, and the only shot you get is at 40 yards, which means maximum impact
Choosing the Right Cartridge for Versatile Hunting
00:17:30
Speaker
velocity, right? You're going to stress that bullet to the nines.
00:17:33
Speaker
And the only shot you get is quartering two strongly in thick timber, take it or leave it. I'm going to stick my neck out there and say most of these folks are going to take that shot, even though they know their bullet.
00:17:48
Speaker
Well, they probably think their bullet is magic, so it's going to do anything they want it to. But that bullet could very well ah do its grenade thing like they want it to on a broadside shot and stop in that big shoulder.
00:18:01
Speaker
And if you're going to try and argue that with me, folks, let me just say this. I was hunting with a 6mm Creedmoor Before most people were, my kids have killed a lot of deer with it. We've shot a ton of coyotes. I've used at least three or four different match type bullets on different species of game. I have a lot of background with it. And I've seen that 108 grain ELD match that's so popular.
00:18:26
Speaker
stop on a neck shot on a two-point mule deer. This is a small-bodied mule deer, hit the neck, blew up, and did not exit the other side of that neck. So if you're going to tell me that you can count on that bullet to punch through ah seven, eight, ten-year-old bull elk's shoulder knuckle and six or eight inches of muscle, another rib or two, and then get in the vitals and still have what it takes to destroy them,
00:18:51
Speaker
You're not going to convince me folks. There are limitations on this type of bullet specifically and on the launch platform, the cartridge that's pushing it. Right. If you recognize those limitations and you have the ethical discipline to hunt within them, fine, go for it.
00:19:08
Speaker
I don't want limitations. I am a man that does not like being like having my equipment dictate what I can do, what shot opportunities I can take.
00:19:19
Speaker
I maximize my cartridge. And my chosen bullet to be useful in any shot angle presentation, except possibly the classic Texas heart shot, right?
00:19:32
Speaker
I'll take that on wounded game, but I'll never take it on uh, unwounded, uh, big animal like a, an elk or something. I said, if I had a world-class coos deer facing straight away from me and I'm shooting my 30 out six with a heavy bullet, you bet I'm putting it right up the tailpipe and going to get my deer.
00:19:49
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And, and I don't want to, like, I can say that the match bullets when they work, yes, the animal dies so much faster. Like I've shot. and It can't, it can't, not always.
00:20:03
Speaker
And, and I don't want to like, and I will say these guys, like I'm sorry, of make fun of what rocks i a little bit. Like these guys are such better shooters. I mean, such better hunters than me. I'm not trying to pretend like they don't work. It's just for me, like I've just seen, so like you said, like that frontal diet, like I just shot a wildebeest.
00:20:19
Speaker
And honestly in Africa, I shot six, five Creedmoor for everything. because that's the guns they had. They shoot, they shoot these like 18 pounds, six, five Creedmoors. That way anyone can get behind them and shoot an animal. And I shot a wildebeest at 390 yards through the shoulder.
00:20:32
Speaker
Didn't come out. It spun around, gave me a funnel, shot it up the funnel. And that thing freaking dumped and rolled a hundred yards down a hill. But it was shooting an ELDX bullet. Yeah. You know, it was shooting a nice heavy, you know, heavy for caliber bullet that, that didn't blow apart. And, and I think that's where me and you really do agree on, um,
00:20:51
Speaker
a lot of stuff is I, the bullet construction and shooting hunting bullets. And what what is your take on, because if you were to go and talk to some of these guys now, because I'm telling you, if I put a clip up right now, this, we're going to get 5,000 guys who have killed a deer with a yield with a, you know, a ELDM or whatever it is.
00:21:08
Speaker
And they will tell you that the guys at Hornady are liars. They, they, they, they engineers are liars. They're not really match bullets, but I go talk to the guys at Hornady, right? Cause we do shows together and they're like, dude, that's a match bullet.
00:21:20
Speaker
Yeah. We don't recommend it for hunting and we don't recommend it for hunting, but yes, you can do it. You know what i mean? So why, why we, why are we bringing a knife to a gunfight, man? What are we doing? Exactly.
00:21:31
Speaker
And the, the dumb thing is their only reasoning is they don't like recoil. Right. And I like shooting big boars. I love driving a big board just like some guys love driving a muscle car.
00:21:45
Speaker
You know, if you want to get in your smart car and go to work, go for it. That's not my style.
Hunting Experiences: 6.5 Creedmoor and Field Practice
00:21:51
Speaker
And the other thing is, folks, you know, you say you're going to get 5,000 comments from guys that have shot a deer with it.
00:21:57
Speaker
Okay. Go to Australia or New Zealand or Africa where people shoot hundreds and hundreds, sometimes thousands of animals and a year with their cartridges and ask them how that combination works. And they'll tell you, well, you know, I, I don't use it because one or two times out of 10, we have a rodeo and yeah in my line of work, we don't like rodeos.
00:22:23
Speaker
Right. So hey it's one of those things. I know lots and lots of people are, they, they feel like they're pushing boundaries by doing this, but To me, they've just found ah you know a fine tip pen that works, you know writes really easily and they're using it for everything. Or sometimes you got to write in some broad strokes here, my friend.
00:22:46
Speaker
You know yeah hear people talking about shooting bison and moose and elk and all these things with even the 223 and a 77 grain tipped match king that's another great combination and they're doing the 223 is the new thing yeah it's full threads dedicated to we're going to shoot the tip match king 223 for every animal and there are guys that are talking about shooting like shooting elk at 800 yards with it.
00:23:15
Speaker
You know, I presume that was probably a cow elk and perfectly broadside and it died. Right. And so they call that a success. I call it a stunt drew and you know, okay, we're getting in the weeds here. We're going to draw some smoke here. But, um, the fact is,
00:23:32
Speaker
That is a great ah bullet, a terrific bullet in the 223 for use within its correct parameters, right? And funny enough, you say it's a new thing, right? I was hunting with that bullet years ago.
00:23:48
Speaker
I got some of the, basically that bullet was a strongly encouraged by black hills ammunition who's working closely with sierra on some special ammunition for our elite forces overseas and they were working to develop something that ruptured more consistently and more catastrophically than the standard can alert 77 grain match king which was the go-to at the time And I started hunting with that thing long, long time ago. I shot a coyote with it 500 and sorry, 749 yards. No, tell you wrong 549 and then another 719 yards and it kills, It's good bullet within its realm. Right.
00:24:25
Speaker
another ah seven hundred nineteen yards and kills right it's a good bullet within its realm But i there are times when it just isn't appropriate.
00:24:38
Speaker
my My son, Williams, best buddy, shot a real nice four by four with cheaters, 200 yards with that bullet. His first hunting season, he was 10 years old, made a perfect center of both lungs broadside shot, right? This is like the ultimate. You're enough.
00:24:55
Speaker
close enough. It's broadside. His shot placement was ideal. He and his dad looked for that deer for hours before they finally found it. There wasn't a speck of blood.
00:25:06
Speaker
It had gone, if memory serves, about 200 yards and slid under a big log. And they were real lucky they found it at all. It died, but it didn't bleed, and it didn't die fast.
00:25:18
Speaker
And that was ideal shot circumstances, right? If he'd blown a 130-grain 270 through that buck, It would have gone 20 to 40 yards and there'd been blood everywhere.
00:25:30
Speaker
Right. Yep. Yeah. I mean, and I totally agree with you. and i just, and I'm not trying to, I know i'm going to grit some hate for this one and it, which is fine because people kill things all time with those bullets. It's just for me, like, especially with, with kids and especially with like new hunters and they're hearing this and they're hearing it as like, as the cannon is like biblical truths. Like you have to, this is what you use. And basically there's this big push to the 30 out. Six is dead.
00:25:57
Speaker
These 30 caliber bullets are useless. You get all the recoil. You want the followup shot. And I'm like sitting here, like, I just want to take one shot. Yeah. You know what i mean? Yeah. And I do love like I love that hard quartering shot with like my 30-06 or I've done the front.
00:26:11
Speaker
I love that frontal shot, man. Like I shot an antelope this year and it went right behind. It was hard quartering. You see the videos out right now on YouTube. And I shot that thing with a right behind the shoulder. It went end to end, came out the rear ham.
00:26:26
Speaker
And it just, it blew that thing. yeah the The slow motion of the video, it goes the size of a basketball. Poof, poof, goes back in. That thing was done. Awesome. You know, I shot a coos deer last year and it was, it came into water and I was shooting a 260 Remington, shooting the hammers.
00:26:42
Speaker
And I put that thing right through the chest and it went end to end through that animal. It went 40 yards and died. you know And I like the ability to take those shots. And those were actually pretty simple shots. But a lot of times you're going to hunt an elk and you're in just, they live in the crappiest spots. When rifle season, it's not like they're out there bugling. I mean, unless you draw a once a lifetime tag, you're typically shooting like...
00:27:07
Speaker
Cross canyon, down canyon, up canyon, hard quartering away. you know and often in thick timber at funny angles. yeah i yeah A few years back, I ah did a ah count, and I had shot as many...
00:27:24
Speaker
mature bull elk inside of a hundred yards as i had outside and almost all of those were in timber and at funny angles yeah those are times where you want a ah big hammer you know just because you don't want to have to wait and hope he turns broadside and pauses in that little gap behind you know between the trees so you can sneak a little thin jacketed explosive bullet between his ribs You want to be able to punch a big, heavy controlled expansion bullet through him, through his vitals at any angle that he presents.
00:27:56
Speaker
And that that's a good point you just made, right? with the you You shot more under 100. And that's kind of where I've been trying to go with, like this year I'm doing 30-30 for a bunch of games. This year we're going to we're going to Alaska. We're bringing open site 30-30 lever actions. Nice.
00:28:12
Speaker
Ben's bringing a because he's afraid of brown bears. So Ben's a like Ben. Yeah, I like Ben. yeah I kind of want to bring a but I want to have the You know what I mean? So don't know.
00:28:25
Speaker
For me, I feel like the deer, like we're going to whitetail in North Dakota or North Carolina together this year as well. And it's I'm like, man, a 30-30 is just the caliber you want. But I do like the 45-72. I don't know. I'm still debating, but I like giving men a hard time.
00:28:38
Speaker
But um I find it hard. to to find an animal past 400 yards it sometimes is sometimes it's harder than finding one closer. Right. and And I really do think that I'm not knocking long range hunting. I've shot animals far, right? Like we shot some of 500 yards in Africa this week, but, but,
00:28:57
Speaker
I'm really hard pressed to find situation where I can't get within 400 yards of an animal or 300 yards of an animal. Yeah. Right. It's really hard to do that. And, and honestly, if you, if I take you out to the desert, Joseph, or we go up to your house, we go shoot out in the prairies up there.
00:29:10
Speaker
When you get past that quarter mile mark, which like four hundred twenty yards, things just start getting funny, no matter what gun you're shooting. Right. Cause wind comes into play. Like everyone can dope a gun now. Right. It's so easy to to get your elevation. Right.
00:29:23
Speaker
Yeah. but Wind man. And then when you get out to seven, six, seven, 800 yards, especially on a deer size target. Yeah. I don't, I don't want to say you're hoping praying, but most guys are hoping praying at that point.
00:29:36
Speaker
Most guys. Plus then you're potentially adding in multiple wind vectors. You know, if you're on the prairie, that's one thing. You probably have a consistent wind, but a strong wind. If you're in the mountains, every little cut and draw is going to be swirling that wind. And you are going to have different vectors between you and the target of varying strengths. And,
00:29:56
Speaker
Man, I'm with you. I mean, no matter how perfect your ballistic drop calculator is, dope in the wind is the joker in the deck. You got to be a little bit of a wizard with wind to deserve to shoot far, right? You got live, eat, breathe, and dream.
00:30:12
Speaker
long range shooting you've got to wear out multiple rifle barrels every year in my opinion to ethically hunt especially mountain game at extreme distances and another big component is of course most folks go to the range and they either sit at a concrete bench yeah Or maybe they lay down prone with their bipod and rear sandbag and they shoot and they hit all these targets out to 1,000, 1,200 yards, validating their trajectory. That's fantastic.
00:30:40
Speaker
Do that. But then you got to get into field positions in funny angles. And a lot of folks don't have... the opportunity to do that they don't live near public land with a bunch of rocks high on mountain sides that they can go pop away at right and so a lot of people can't practice that but even those that can usually don't and that's a failing on us as as humans because validating your trajectory on a flat range from a concrete bench or a prone bipod
00:31:12
Speaker
does not translate then into shooting positions where you're surfing on adrenaline. Your heart rate is through the roof. You're probably breathing hard because you've just run up the side of a ridge to get in position for this shot. And now you're going to try and quickly guesstimate the wind for multiple vectors and take an 800-yard crack at an elk across a canyon.
00:31:36
Speaker
You got a lot more belief in yourself than I do. Oh man. And that's kind of why i don't want plug the new bipod, but I made the new bipod that goes from eight inches to 30 inches and it does any position possible.
00:31:48
Speaker
I mean, Africa was great. I get, I had the ability to kill a lot of animals now, right? I hunt, you know, a hundred plus days a year. And we, I mean, I can't even tell you, i probably killed 15 deer size game the last year, you know, and none of them were flat on.
00:32:03
Speaker
mean, like just, let's I'll give you an example. My kids shot, um, an Impala last week, and and it was 200 yards away, and there was a fence in between. It's like a barbed wire fence, and there was high bushes. All we had was a neck shot, and I set him up with the bipod, 30 inches tall in the front with a tripod on the rear. His only way we could get the shot was to get him up on this thing, and we got him set up like that, and he said we got him fully stable. He shot the thing in the throat and killed it, but there was no there was no possible way to get him prone to shoot this thing.
00:32:35
Speaker
Yeah. it was it was not a It was not a possibility in where we were shooting, right? And it's very similar to Prairie upper by you, right? And then, you know, I shot my – I shot actually shot a kudu and a wildebeest. I doubled.
00:32:46
Speaker
um It was pretty cool. Oh, wow. So I've got to – I end up seeing – I'll tell the hunting story real quick. Yeah, I've got to hear this one. So we were, we were looking, uh, this is like day six of our hunt, last day. And I'd already missed my bow. was like, well, want to kill some, I want to kill a kudu, you know, or a wildebeest.
00:33:02
Speaker
And we're, we glass over and I see some Barbary sheep. I'm like, there's Barbary sheep. The guy goes, we don't have Barbary sheep here. I go, well, BS, man, you got Barbary sheep right there. I'm telling you I know what Barbary sheep looks like. not And he goes, I'm like, call the owner, see if we can hunt these things. I'd rather shoot a Barbary, you know? And he goes, I'm ah They're the neighbors. You can't hunt I didn't property. You can't hunt So I'm looking at these barberries and all of a sudden I see a golden wildebeest and a blue wildebeest. And I'm like, oh man, there's some gold and some blues.
00:33:27
Speaker
It's about a thousand yards away, which, which make a stock and get on these blues, you know, and, We make a stock in there. We get to, it's super steep, probably about 25 degrees, 30 degrees uphill. It's 390 yards. We're in this Creek bottom. I'm laying, i have a rock between my legs and I am twisted up like a pretzel laying there for like two hours. As soon as we get set up, of course they bed down, right? Or the one, the one, the big bowl, the that fall big bowl beds down. Right. So I'm laying there for two hours. I had to get up a couple of times. cause I'm so sore. Like, I mean, I'm i'm getting so hard because the way position I'm laying and i want to be in the scope and I'm laying there all of a sudden,
00:34:01
Speaker
a kudu steps out like a young bull. And I'm like, there's a kudu. Like, we and we're talking 75 yards from these wildebeest from like, and all of a sudden a big kudu steps out. And then there's a bunch of baboons. There's in my rifle scope, Joseph, I've got ah big kudu bull, ah baboons, Barbary sheep, uh, golden and blue wildebeest.
00:34:22
Speaker
my scope And I look at my love Africa. I look at my camera guy and I'm like, well, I'm gonna shoot that kudu. Then I'm going to shoot that wildebeest. I'm going to shoot a baboon. Well, the baboon thing didn't happen because as soon as I pulled the cherry, those baboons were gone.
00:34:36
Speaker
Yeah. Right. So I ended up shooting the kudu twice. too it's They're like elf, man. You give them as many as you can, especially at six, five, gave them to put them down. Sure. Then the, uh, the wildebeest and this whole time I'm two, three, I didn't have to read It's 390 yards. Everything is in line with it. No re-doping. They're all in line.
00:34:54
Speaker
So I shoot him the wildebeest stand up. And they're looking around and I'm like, okay, there's the boy finally stepped out. He was laying behind this bush comes out and I'm, I'm, I'm on him and he beds down again.
00:35:05
Speaker
And I've been there for two and a half hours. So I'm there I'm yelling, Hey, Hey, I'm yelling. I'm like, I'm not doing that. I'm yelling at this bull to stand up. So I yell, yell, yell. He stands up. And it's funny because these guys were like a mile away. they hurt They're like, we're already cheering. I'm like, no, I wasn't cheering. I just wasn't going lay there for another two hours. So these rocks are between my legs, you know, but I'm like so sore. So then I shoot that, shoot that wildebeest through the shoulder, spins around, shoot in frontal with that ELDX dropped from right there. And I ended up having them die within like 70 yards of each other in the same ditch.
00:35:33
Speaker
It was really cool. But ah my whole point of that is, weird shooting angles, weird positions. The bipod was one leg was extended. One leg wasn't extended because rock. And like, it was just, and I, I do practice that because I do do some and NRL stuff. I do go to the range. I do do some PRS stuff.
00:35:52
Speaker
And that really is only the only way you're going to get, good at hunting is for one field time for two going out and doing some weird stuff man like i talk about all the time my kids first deer was 300 yards downhill with ants biting us yeah never forget it i had red ants biting me and he ended up shooting a deer through and like you can't reenact that at the gun range No.
00:36:12
Speaker
You know, i mean, we could try. That'd be fun. i don't know. I'll bring the ants. I had welts. I mean, it was unreal. I had welts all around us. And we ended up he him shooting his first year. But I'll never forget that. It was like we were laying on a cactus in a bush and there were ants and they started biting us. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm getting bit by ants. And this you can't remake. You can't you can't get that in your 70 degrees wind controlled hard yard gun range on a bench. Right.
00:36:36
Speaker
No, that's why i bring like a, ball I bring a stool, right. Or when I go to, if I do the hundred yard rate, I'll shoot off the bat, I'll pull the table and i'll shoot off the back of the chair. I'll get on my knees and shoot off the chair, you know, or whatever it is to make awkward positions or I'll, or I'll sit, um, I'll get on the table, but I'll stand up.
00:36:52
Speaker
Right. And I'll do like a low kneeling or something, you know, because that's more realistic. Right. For sure. One of the best things you can do is bring a backpack. And yeah a lot of people wear little bitty day packs. I wear ah day pack on a ah near full size rigid frame because I use that frame so much while I'm shooting. I can use that to support, you iall hug it as a rear support from a sitting position with my rifle on a tall bipod like yours or a, you know, a tripod or something.
00:37:22
Speaker
There's just so much you can do. Turn it on edge, whatever. And something, I mean, I'm not very good about getting out and training, rucking as the term goes every day, but I do try and get out more and more as fall approaches. And when I go, I take my rifle.
00:37:37
Speaker
I go on public land. Nobody's you know got a right to tell me I can't do that. And even if it's just one cartridge I'm carrying with a suppressor, so I don't bother too much. I will find a rock at some point and make a point of shooting it from an awkward position.
00:37:53
Speaker
Even if it's just one shot on that session, that way I get accustomed carrying my rifle, right? Uh, I'm getting in shape and I'm putting a lot of emphasis on that one shot, one kill method.
00:38:06
Speaker
And it, it really can help folks. It really does. And one thing you said that i really like, is the rear support and people don't think of the rear support. People all think of my bipod or they think of my tripod, but they don't think about what's in the rear, right? Like I'm actually a real big fan of a rear tripod support now and using your tripod as a rear support because you can move manipulate it, but also rear backpack support is huge.
Shooting Techniques: Supports and Scopes
00:38:29
Speaker
yeah I would say more important than the front support is almost the rear support or just as, just as yeah important is the rear support.
00:38:36
Speaker
If you've got time, a rear bipod or tripe sorry tripod is awesome, but I'll tell you the thing I've used more than anything else is my binocular case. usually have good binocular, range-finding binocular on my chest, and when it's time to shoot, that binocular goes back in that case. I don't drop because I don't want it banging around in the rocks that I'm about to dive into.
00:38:57
Speaker
I stuff in the case, and then when I go down on my chest or over that rock or curl up behind that big gnarled stump or whatever, I almost instinctively just grab that bino case and start jamming it, manipulating it underneath the toe of my stock.
00:39:15
Speaker
You can usually turn it, wedge it somehow to get that rear support. I've shot so many animals with my bi you know my binos underneath the back of my stock. So we're very similar in that. I actually take my vinyl harness off when I go prone and I use my rear, I use it as a bag. So I'll take it off because I'll do that or I'll do a jacket. Right. but most times it's the vinyl harness. I feel like I can really manipulate it. And I also have with that, I have my vinyl harness and I also have like a range finder ah next to it, you know, so you can put that on there as well and you can, yeah can really manipulate it. So yeah, the vinyl harness is a great tip for, for getting it done and finally getting it killed.
00:39:49
Speaker
Yeah. One thing, excuse me, that a lot of folks don't, implement into their training if i can just offer this is a limited amount of time and you mentioned an nrl hunter that can be a big one you know they teach you the the discipline teaches you to find targets range targets find positions that are going to work and then get into those positions and use them and you have four minutes generally to engage four targets uh with up to eight shots depending on if you're hitting with your first shot or not great discipline but still
00:40:25
Speaker
sometimes even better is to just go with a buddy and and take turns picking out a rock and saying all right you have eight seconds from standing to try and hit that thing. yeah And in that case, you don't have time to use a tripod. You don't have time to take your vinyl case off, right? You've got to dive and scramble and squeeze. And that's about all you got time to do. But if you're willing to practice that a little bit, it can really pay off. I have a ah cousin-in-law by marriage that I really like.
00:40:54
Speaker
His name is Brent and he's Did not grow up hunting. Didn't grow up shooting. He's probably the most natural at both coming in as a beginner that I've ever seen. He just takes to it like a duck to water.
00:41:07
Speaker
The first time I tried this drill, we had a target, you know, on the the hillside, maybe 370 yards away or whatever. Deer vital size thing. We're just standing. And i just said, see that? And he said, yeah. I said, just shoot it as fast as you can from right now. And I hit the timer.
00:41:20
Speaker
Took him about a minute and a half. I said, okay, here, tell me, go hand him the timer. I just had my pack, my rifle. And he says, go. I hit it in 11 seconds, blew his socks off.
00:41:31
Speaker
And we worked until he was hitting that thing at 10 seconds or less. And it only took 10 minutes. I just had to say, all right, think about what you've don't have to do. You don't have to take your pack off.
00:41:43
Speaker
You don't have to do anything except deploy the bipod, stuff yourre buy you know gett pro real fast du the your binocular, your binocular under the back of the stock and squeeze. Of course, you got to either hold or dial as well.
00:41:55
Speaker
There's a few things. There's a few components. But once you start practicing this, boy, you get faster in a hurry. Yeah, for sure. And that's another one, man, with hunting. The the the kid thing is acquiring the target for new hunters can be so hard.
00:42:12
Speaker
Right. And so I'm going to, I'm going to go on a limb and say that you're not shooting a six to 24 scope. Yeah. Because I'm a big, I want that low end two to three, honestly. I think that's more important to me than anything.
00:42:27
Speaker
You and I are exactly alike. When I see somebody show up with a two and a half or three pound, four, six to 24, or, you know, six to 30 power scope. I just shake my head. It makes your rifle top heavy.
00:42:40
Speaker
ah So it doesn't balance right. It's a lot extra weight to carry up the hill that you don't need and you can't dial it down far enough to find targets fast and keep your eye on your target through recoil for fast follow up shots.
00:42:55
Speaker
There are so many disadvantages to not having a low end on your power spectrum. I want three power at the bottom, you know, maximum at the bottom end. And one of my favorite scopes is a little two and a half to eight power Leupold VX3HD with ah the dial up CDS.
00:43:14
Speaker
that's a lot not good the gun That's exactly the scope that's on my son's and both my partner's guns. yeah it's a 308 it weighs like 12 ounces yeah and so i know they're gonna be shooting under 400 yards anyways and dude i love that scope it's it's 500 bucks and that scope is probably my favorite scope right now for just your standard rifle do you know the two and a half to the two and a half to eight it just works man and my kid shot a freaking deer 385 yards with you that thing and cds dial real simple
00:43:46
Speaker
Yeah. Simple and fast and not complex. And you got lots of field of view on two and a half power. We've proved that scope out here in America, in Alaska, and in Africa.
00:43:57
Speaker
I watched Rob Gearing shoot a big old kudu bull at 600 and 578 yards. Just stoned it. He took it squarely through both shoulders with that scope.
00:44:09
Speaker
it dropped and then it's on its side doing the leg twitch. And course at that far, you're not sure. So it was, it was laying on its side with its breastbone facing us. And I said, you see that tuft of hair on his breastbone? And he said, yeah. And I said, aim at that, just fire one more, just, you know, insurance.
00:44:27
Speaker
And he shot in the, cootoo bull quit twitching well when we got down there we started looking for his bull he'd hit that tuft of hair it's like wow yeah people think you need lots of magnification does you far you don't i've got a a super accurate lightweight ar that i built using all the old national match armor tricks but with titanium and carbon fiber components for kind of a walking predator gun Crazy accurate. Six power scope.
00:45:00
Speaker
I shot at a 20 inch steel plate at an industry event with Barnes bullets once. Using the 85 grain match burner bullet, I hit this 20 inch plate at a thousand yards, eight out of 10 shots.
00:45:12
Speaker
ah with a six power scope. Candice Horner. A fixed six. No, it was a one to six. One to six. Okay, I got it. I know what you're talking about. Okay. Yeah. Candice Horner, who's the wife of Daniel Horner, national and world champion shooter, was there.
00:45:29
Speaker
ah She was covering it for Recoil Magazine, the event, I think. She asked if she could try with my rifle. Of course, she did me one better. She hit it nine out of 10 at 1,000 yards. Really? Then after the rifle cooled, I shot at a life-size coyote, steel target at 800 yards and went 10 for 10.
00:45:48
Speaker
Really? With a six power scope. Yep. So people think you need magnification. You don't. You need clarity and you need consistent, precise adjustments.
00:46:01
Speaker
Yeah, I fully agree. i ended up shooting a deer this year at 20 yards, a mule deer. I was on a stalk. I could not, i was like, were stalking this mule deer. was like 300 yards away and he's going from filming and and my camera guy's, he left. I'm like, dude, I'm telling you, he's he's not, he he either went over this little knob or he's in this ditch. And I, I walk up and it's like, oh my gosh, he's right there feeding. i mean, I could have shot him my, you know, stabbed him with a knife.
00:46:25
Speaker
And I picked the rifle up and I'm shooting on that gun. It's that Maven RS1. don't know if you've ever used that scope. It's a really nice scope. I think that's a two and a half to 15.
00:46:36
Speaker
And at two and a half, all I saw was deer at that range. If I would have had a four and a half or a six power to go, I might not have been able to kill that deer. Yeah. cause It it would have been so close.
00:46:46
Speaker
I would have been so close that I wouldn't, it would have been hard for me to even acquire it. And it's feel like that low end for acquiring an animal. Cause that's the biggest thing. That's where we started this whole conversation about was you need the low end to acquire. Then you can zoom in, but honestly out to 500 yards, a nine power scope is pretty great.
00:47:05
Speaker
I mean, it's not really going matter. You're you're're just trying to shoot a pipe plate. You don't need to zoom in onto like, you know, the tiniest spot. right it's a funny thing but there's this transition that's happened in the last 20 years with really premium optics and dial-up scopes and great range finders and that's the hunters especially where you've got a mix of open country have gone to relying very heavily on glassing ability.
Hunting Skills: Balancing Glassing and Woodsmanship
00:47:33
Speaker
And I will never, ever like bad mouth that because that is such an important, crucial part of hunting big open country successfully. I built a whole business on it. Yeah.
00:47:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But you'll, you'll hear some old timers saying that guys that hunt that way aren't hunters, right? They're just deer snipers. And I won't say that either, because if you are serious and disciplined about your pursuit to become a very lethal hunter and you spend the hours and days and months and years refining your equipment, polishing your skills and so forth, that is just as hard as learning to still hunt in the thickest timber in
00:48:16
Speaker
you know, the, the South or the East or whatever. But I, I will say this, I've found that people learn to rely on that so much. They never learn the woods hunting skills that used to be considered so crucial.
00:48:34
Speaker
And as a result, they end up actually losing a lot of opportunities that, you they should have actually capitalized on. You'll hear them say, wow, I was hiking, you know, up to my glassing point and I jumped this big bull. I think he was huge in the timber, never got a shot.
00:48:51
Speaker
And that's the end of the story. Well, if they had been a little more in tune with those woods, moving a little slower and looking a little harder, they very possibly would have gotten that shot.
00:49:04
Speaker
mean, that's how I've shot more than half of the big bulls that I've taken, right? That doesn't need to be a lost opportunity. But you need to focus on building your woodsmanship skills along with your glassing and shooting skills.
00:49:21
Speaker
And That brings us back to a discussion of having equipment that works up close. Like you just said, you stood up that bucket 20 yards. And if you'd had a six power scope or even maybe in a four power scope, all you would have seen is hair.
00:49:36
Speaker
You got to not just have a scope that's low power on the bottom end, but be savvy enough to always keep it on that low power until you need it turned up a little bit.
00:49:47
Speaker
Then you also need that scope to not be so massive that it unbalances your rifle. You throw up a lot of these folding chassis type rifles and they they feel great in supported positions, but And if you practice with them, they're okay in a prone but or sorry a standing position, but they're never going to feel like a good English shotgun, right? They don't leap to your shoulder and point instinctively.
00:50:10
Speaker
They're a piece of mechanical equipment that you need to learn to manipulate to get on target. And if you've got a scope the size of a Hubble telescope on top of that, it's going to unbalance it and make it less responsive.
00:50:23
Speaker
And then, course, there's a lot of other things that come into play. You've got to go back to that cartridge and bullet combination we talked about that's capable from any ethical angle except maybe the Texas heart shot.
00:50:35
Speaker
You've got to be able to instinctively point, find your target, and press that trigger and make the most of that opportunity up close too. You know, it's it's as hard to shoot really well under very tight time constraints and at challenging shot angles as it is in the open country. In fact, it's probably harder.
00:50:55
Speaker
Which how often do we practice that? Man, you're so right. Cause I had, i ended up that kudu, I shot him twice and he ended up standing up. I got up there and shot him again. So full to slot. I shot him one more time offhand at 75 yards. It was, yeah, I just hit him a little bit low.
00:51:10
Speaker
um And then that, I mean, I've had multiple shots this year where I've had to shoot, like I shot that buck offhand at 22 yards. I never practiced that one. Yeah. Yeah. I never practice the short offhand stuff. I'm going to today because I'm doing this. We're going to get on the 30-30 next. I'm going to go out today, the side-by-side and the boys, and we're going go run some 30-30 stuff offhand. And, know, I'm going to just have some fun with it.
00:51:32
Speaker
What time shall I be there? Yeah, come on down, man. And we're going to get into that now. But, yeah, that that is such a good point, man. Like, we never practice that close range under 100. And so much of my shots are within that range, man. Yeah, yeah. So many of them.
00:51:48
Speaker
No, it's funny. Last year, I co-hosted and our inaugural elk hunting bootcamp with Tate Bradfield. He's the owner of a process based elk, uh, sorry, the process based hunter organization that makes them, you know, they're kind of, their mission is to teach hunters to be better hunters, especially beginning hunters. Um,
00:52:09
Speaker
And they do primarily like, um, semi guided drop camp hunts where they'll put one guide in with four new elk hunters. And he's really there just to give them advice and stuff.
00:52:20
Speaker
Anyway, we did this three day elk hunting bootcamp and we did a lot of shooting. as one of the drills i had a 10 inch steel plate at 100 yards and we're in this beautiful mountain range and out there at 470 yards there's this target that everybody's eyeing and i said okay we're gonna hit the timer you first have to hit the you shoot the the offhand target at 100 yards it's representing a deer vitals if you don't hit that you don't even get to shoot at the long one If you hit it, you're going to drop prone, dial up, and shoot the long one. And you've got 20 seconds to do both. The idea is that you hit a deer and he runs across the canyon, you have to finish him, right?
00:53:03
Speaker
Yep. Because followup practicing follow-up shots is just as important as practicing your first shot. Anyway, everybody just was like baffled. Wait a minute, we're doing what?
00:53:15
Speaker
Yeah. Because we don't tend to practice that. It was a really fun drill. Yeah, man. um And I will say too, when he talked about doing a little bit of the still hunting, et cetera, think it's so important to be well-rounded in everything we do, right? And like I think that's why it's important for me to do like, you know, do muzzleloader, do archery. do It kind of all goes together and you kind of put all the skills together.
00:53:39
Speaker
Because man, I could tell you right now, like one of the mistakes I always used to make was I would skyline going to a glass. You get it you see a glassing knob, that's where I'm going. And then you skyline and you blow it like, man, every, you should treat every single ridge as there's something on the other side of that thing.
00:53:57
Speaker
Yeah. Every single ridge and come up and get low, crawl up, get, by find rocks or a bush, find something to go in front of you before you go over and look down. Cause I can't tell you how many times you walk up top of that thing. I'll see, look down and there's just, you know, a big coos guy, white tails bouncing away. Cause you stepped on top them, right. And you could have had your opportunity at a great buck right there.
00:54:16
Speaker
Yeah. And it it goes beyond that too. I mean, in mule deer country, you skyline yourself like that. Maybe, you know, if say you're coming to a point 90 minutes before dusk and to glass for big mule deer, there could be a giant buck bedded 300 yards away that was going to get up 20 minutes before dark, but he sees you skyline.
00:54:37
Speaker
He'll just hunker down, stay put. You'll never see him. And you'll think there's no deer in that basin because you skyline and you don't even know what you did wrong. Yeah. Well, what do you think now we've got into this, you know, offhand stuff, we've got into this, you know, like close quarters combat of hunting.
00:54:56
Speaker
What do you think about our our lever action endeavor this year? What do you think about that? Like open sites, lever action, is it 30-30 dead? Can it kill still deer? Is it going to bounce off these sick of blacktails in August? Like what what what's your take on thirty thirty and doing on that?
Lever Action Rifles and Nostalgia
00:55:10
Speaker
Well, I'm pretty sure it's not going to bounce off. That 30-30 has shot a whole bunch of deer very successfully over the years. I do think you're you're limiting your shots, but you know that, right? Your shot distances. But if you use something like, well, my two favorite bullets, three favorite bullets in the 30-30 in descending order of weight is the 170 grain partition, nozzle partition,
00:55:36
Speaker
The 160 grain Hornady lever evolution. The lever evolution, yeah. Squishy tip and the boat tail. That's a really good 30-30 bullet. And then the 150 grain Barnes TSX. That's what running. Great open cavity. Yeah, great bullet and often crazy accurate.
00:55:53
Speaker
Mm-hmm. you know Any of those are going to get the job done on any deer that walks the planet. And, ah you know, as long as you're hunter enough to get inside that 150, maybe 200 yards, you know, if you've really worked your rifle out, ah you're going to kill whatever you shoot at pretty profoundly.
00:56:10
Speaker
Assuming you can make the shot, of course. Well, see, that's the thing for me is like, I went out and i actually just went and bought, you know, 200 rounds of, I'm to be shooting the barns, but I just went and bought 200 rounds of just core locks at the stores. They're kind of like the cheapest stuff they had.
00:56:24
Speaker
And I'm going to go practice that because it's open site. We're not going to do ah you're tempted to throw a red dot on top. You know what I mean? No red dot, no, no fix to, you know, nothing. And I'm going to go practice a lot.
00:56:35
Speaker
And I'm going to probably shoot four or five, 600 rounds before August. You know, I'll go, I'll go out today and probably put 80 rounds through it and just practice those shots, practice shooting off a tripod, practice shooting bipod off it, practice shooting downhill across canyon.
00:56:47
Speaker
Cause that's like the big X factor now is like, where, when I'm in a different position, where am i putting that front pin? You know? So the open site thing, man, yeah it's different, man. Like we grew up, it's almost like,
00:56:59
Speaker
man, does anything give you more joy than shooting a 22 with open sights? You know what I mean? Like you grew up i do what you mean you grew up doing it, but then you kind of forget about it, right? You have your daisy with open sights and then you get your scope around like, you know, eight or nine just kind of forget about the open sights.
00:57:14
Speaker
But man, it's a skill set. Let me ask, what rifle are you running? It's the Marlin 336. Okay. Do you have ah aperture sight on the backside?
00:57:26
Speaker
No, I just have the ghost ring. that Okay, that's a ghostring yeah comes yeah site <unk> ghost Yeah. ring. Is the front site, is it a blade or a bead?
00:57:38
Speaker
It's a blade with a the the white stripe on it. or No, no, no. It's got the bead on it. It's got the beat it's called the the the the green bead on there. I'm thinking about, I've got the gun right here.
00:57:50
Speaker
so Yeah. It's got the green bead on Your backside's great. You may want to consider replacing that front sight with a ah narrow blade just a square top blade no bead on top those beads are great for fast shooting inside 80 yards or so but for fine shooting they're they're indistinct to your eye and you tend lot of shooters will tend to cover up their target with the bead rather than using the tip of it to aim and so you you get a less fine sight picture i grew up shooting with uh and competing with iron sights and and have shot them
00:58:26
Speaker
just extensively throughout my life and i i'm a real believer in a peep sight in the back and a blade sight up front for really fine shooting with irons absolutely there's some good aftermarket guys out there too i remember i can't remember which one name those guys are but i'm gonna look them up i'll look into getting a new front blade for excess sites makes a good one skinner sites makes a good one Skinner sights is the one that I saw. So you said X, XS. I'm going to write these down right now. Letter X, letter S sights. Oh, XS sights. In fact, the rear peep sight.
00:59:00
Speaker
The rear peep sight on your rifle is probably made by one of those two. Already. Yep. Another one, if you're bolt action guy, really good is NECG, New England Custom Guns.
00:59:11
Speaker
They build some of the best barrel band type sights and ah interchangeable inserts and so forth for African safari type rifles. Okay. For doing the open sight, for, you know, going to get your buffalo, that thing. Dangerous game stuff. Yep.
00:59:25
Speaker
yeah I think next year when we go back to Africa, I want to do open site lever action as well. Maybe 45, 70. I know he went down to Texas. My father-in-law wanted to kill. He wanted to kill a buffalo. It's where I said here since I've known him. Right. And so I got him a tag down there and we went down this 45, 70 and man, the authority that 45, 70 has it, you know, under a hundred yards.
00:59:45
Speaker
He ended up shooting that Buffalo. um and he shot a whitetail with it and it's just, that's a cool cartridge. Yeah. I shot my first Cape Buffalo with a lever action and iron sights. Yeah. It's a Winchester 1886 that was re-barreled and re-chambered to 475 Turnbull by Doug Turnbull himself.
01:00:05
Speaker
Oh, I saw this. I saw the, i I was, you had me looking it up and then it turns out that was a really expensive gun. And I was like, I'm not buying that. So I was, it's like almost like, it's like, I mean, I couldn't find one for less than like eight grand. was like, yeah, I was, i don't know where I saw, I must tell you on YouTube. then I was like, oh, I got, I got this Turnbull kick. I've been on this lever action kick, you know, I've been on yeah this whole journey of just using some of these older cartridges in the last couple of years. But yeah, I saw remember that Turnbull thing. Yeah. And really custom guns.
01:00:31
Speaker
but You can get into a rifle that will perform similarly for a lot less. I mean, you your Marlin forty five seventy s I think, are probably the most versatile 4570s out there because they're they have that hard top.
01:00:45
Speaker
It's not an open top, and it's drilled and tapped. You can put optic. You can put different peep sites, whatever, on there. I really, really like the Marlins in a 45-70. In that Winchester 1886, I think it's the classiest lever action out there.
01:01:00
Speaker
You can get a forty five ninety And since you're a hand loader, this should be of interest to you because you can ramp that up to shoot just as authoritatively as like the 450 Marlin Express that didn't really survive but was...
01:01:14
Speaker
significantly more powerful than a 4570. So you can buy an over-the-counter Winchester 1886 in 4590. You can run 4570 ammo in a chamber, just like you put a Special in a 357 Magnum chamber. Yeah.
01:01:31
Speaker
But if you want to get brass, Starline sells it, and then load it up a bit. Man, you can develop a smoking powerful lever action for a pretty good price. So what is your take? Because I went back and forth. I just got my first lever action. right My final's got a pile of them I got my first one. It's the 30-30. I just wanted to have that classic cartridge. Plus, I can get a lot more rounds down without blowing my shoulder off.
01:01:55
Speaker
Yeah. Man, with open sights, it's really hard to argue against the 45-70 versus the 30-30. Because it's like, I'm not like I'm going be stretching these things out past 100 yards anyways.
01:02:07
Speaker
It's really hard to argue with that 45-70.
01:02:10
Speaker
My take is if you're a deer hunter and mostly just shooting whitetails, maybe the occasional average size black bear, 30-30 where it's at. It's easy to shoot well. It's easy to shoot fast. But if you live in the West where you may take...
01:02:25
Speaker
an elk with it or you you go to alaska with it if you hunt africa with it where you may be shooting stuff like zebra and other tough game the 45 70 is absolutely where it's at there's a ton of good factory ammo available for it there are a ton of good rifles available in it believe it or not i asked a ah marketing spokesperson at ruger last year ah what their ratio was in demand. And he said, we get like 60, 70% more demand for 45, 70 than for 30, 30.
01:02:58
Speaker
Really? Wow. Yeah. I had the same reaction. Really? Man. Yeah. I just went 33 because I feel like I'm going to, I'll buy another one. I'll probably buy a 457 here in the next month or two because I just want to have both. I'm really loving it. Maybe I'll rotate through them, you know, maybe I'll do 457 on the East coast this year. and For sure. Yeah. i still kind of, I still am a little bit, I mean, going be carrying a 10 mil on my chest for bears, but you know, it is 457 to be a left little more authority with a Barnes bullet into a black in a grizzly bear than a,
01:03:24
Speaker
For sure. then ah Than a 30-30 will. But yeah, man, I can tell you, we shot that bison. He shot it like 70 yards offhand with a fixed two.
01:03:35
Speaker
It went through. was a lever revolution in that one. Went through. Boom. Spun around. Shits one more time. Drops it right there. Nice. And man, I've never seen the animal. like It was almost like a geyser. Just spray blood, like mist. There's those giant lungs in those animals.
01:03:52
Speaker
But man, those things just... They do the job. they Those 4570s, man, they just hit hard and they do the job. It was really impressive to see what that bullet did. And i was, I'm kind of becoming real big fan of the cartridge. It was really neat.
01:04:06
Speaker
Absolutely. yeah, I did a, an episode here a couple of months back on a Buffalo. Uh, it's a Buffalo farm, right? You know, most of these Buffalo were cows shot by hunters that came with a process based hunter tape Bradfield to do a course where they'd shoot their own bison and then field dress it and and so forth. And it's a learning experience, right?
01:04:30
Speaker
They shot, uh, something like by now it's probably approaching a hundred buffalo in the past year at the time it was 56 different buffalo and we talked through a lot of the different cartridges they'd seen used and they let people take about anything but if it's smaller than 6.5 creedmoor they pretty well insist you take a next shot right base of the ear and just drop it right there and that works great if you're a good enough shop i went with them and right before we did this recording and and helped out with six Buffalo getting shot. And I saw one poked perfectly through the lungs of the six, five Creedmoor, absolutely ideal shot placement, a hundred, 110 yards with 140 grain ELD match bullet.
01:05:14
Speaker
And it should be very similar to that six mm Creedmoor. We're talking about just a little bigger, right? And it was, ah i actually have a little bit of a hard time talking about it on the air because it was not,
01:05:29
Speaker
The result was not good. And it was a big herd of buffalo. So this cow wasn't even a big gnarly rut filled bull, right? it was a cow. She got in with the herd and we couldn't take another shot.
01:05:41
Speaker
And I think it was, we've got it on camera, but it was six or eight minutes before she bedded, not dropped, bedded. And then because we couldn't get another shot we had the ah shooter prone, ready to take a you know shot of the head, anything we could get.
01:05:59
Speaker
I think it was ah in all about 15 minutes before that cow bison expired. um, I just wasn't a good feeling to watch
Caliber Choice for Big Game
01:06:09
Speaker
that. It was hard to watch versus a half inch diameter, 45, 70 going into that thing and just going full penetration. And those never, ever released on bullets are just, those are really good.
01:06:20
Speaker
Those are good bullets. Yeah. No, it was, it was a, you know, a confirmation for me of what I've always believed. I've seen, ah enough of that that i i just don't like being under gun you know as craig boddington once wrote i find the concept of being overgunned a great deal more elusive than that of being undergunned yeah meaning there's no such thing as being overgunned you can't kill something too dead if you shoot it accurately and you enjoy shooting that gun pile means shoot whatever you want with it yep Yep.
01:06:52
Speaker
You can't kill them too dead. Exactly. i can tell you from that hunt, I mean, obviously we're hunting high fence down there in Texas, whatever it is, what it is. You learn real quick why those bison got killed off so fast.
01:07:04
Speaker
you shoot them they just circle up it's like what are you guys doing run yeah run bison run nope they just like keep shooting us you know they have that same sort of protective response as musk oxen do where they circle up and kind of yeah like i don't know whether they're saying well if i get in a big herd i'm more less likely to be selected or if they think let's team up and protect each other you know but whatever it is yeah they don't spook and run They don't spook and run, man. They just like circle up and get there. I mean, we're sitting there. We're having to push these bison off the other one that we just shot because they were there.
01:07:40
Speaker
But man, that was a fun pod, Joseph. if We always end with a hunting story and I don't want to end with one of you guys shooting a bison with a six mil, a six five. So me a, give me a that did, that did prove our, lot of our points from this, this combo though.
01:07:54
Speaker
Give me a hunting story, man. You got enough of them. Let's get a good, campfire story. Sure. ah Um, we, I'll tell one that has the opposite end of the spectrum.
01:08:06
Speaker
And that really is a classic example of, Why it's important to be good with ah an authoritative authoritative cartridge inside of 100 yards or so. In 2015, I drew a tag I'd been applying for all my life. It was a Southern Utah elk tag in a really, really good unit. I grew up within the boundaries of the unit, knew it very well.
01:08:26
Speaker
the year before my brother had shot a 402 bull elk with a flintlock rifle in there. It's all public land, DIY. And so when I do this tag with the rifle, I went in there, I spent a good part of the summer. Every spare moment I'd buzz down. There's about a four hour drive from where I lived at the time and scout.
01:08:45
Speaker
And but between a friend that runs trail cameras like a madman and and myself and one other guy, we'd found... Two really, really good bulls that we thought both of them could nip at 400. And opening morning, well, there's some interesting learning stuff here.
01:09:04
Speaker
I camped with my brother and a buddy on about a quarter mile from this herd. When it went dark, they were going crazy. Peak of the rut, mid-September, and just tearing it up all night long. They bugled so hard it was hard to sleep.
01:09:21
Speaker
Four in the morning, ATVs and trucks started coming into the highway, two and a half miles below us, but we could hear them.
Elk Hunt Adventure
01:09:28
Speaker
Those elk shut up and left. Four in the morning. We got up, just stuffed our sleeping bags and our day packs, and started following them.
01:09:37
Speaker
And They went about a mile and a half up into rougher country. We were just following bugles in the distance when they'd started firing again a little bit.
01:09:49
Speaker
And I heard a funny squeal behind me. It sounded like a spike elk, but you never know. And we were, you know, trying to catch the big herd ahead of us. But um my brother says, yeah he's just right there. You better go look at him. You know, you don't want to walk away from a big bull that's maybe by himself.
01:10:08
Speaker
excuse me. And so I said, all right, you guys stay here. You're, you're being too noisy. I was just joking with them and walked out on the end of this point, kind of backtracking, going straight downwind toward where this squeal had been.
01:10:22
Speaker
and i walked in there pretty ready expecting to see a spike or a raghorn bull but you never know got to the end of the point looked off through the little meadow into the fringes of the trees below and i was like you know what he smelled me coming i haven't heard him again certainly i've spoke to him So I turned and headed back towards my brother and my friend and I'd gone maybe 60 or 70 yards sneaky style.
01:10:47
Speaker
I thought, this is dumb. We need to go catch that herd. And I had lowered my rifle from that lower ready position to buy my side, I did have a ah cartridge chamber because I didn't know what I might stand up in that timber or come across, right? Safety on.
01:11:03
Speaker
And I just changed my pace from stealthy to moving quickly. And I think it was that change of pace that made this bull break. He was bedded in a cluster of boulders ranging from wheelbarrow size to Volkswagen bug size, just in front of him to the side of me. And when he flushed out of there, he came off the ground like a quail at 15 yards.
01:11:23
Speaker
And it was one of the two monster bulls we'd been looking for. and he's very recognizable had this palmated three forked end on one antler and course he came out of there going like a racehorse and He was right between me and where my front hunting companions were. And so I couldn't even raise the rifle, right?
01:11:49
Speaker
Thankfully, he hooked. He fish hooked hard. And i mean, all this took probably three or four seconds to tell, right? But as he's running through the quakies, pretty thick stuff, about 60 or 70 yards,
01:12:04
Speaker
I got tracking him with my scope and he, he flashed through an opening and this troll on the back of my mind's jumping up and down and, and screaming at me that I'd missed my chance. Right. And then suddenly he was in another opening.
01:12:17
Speaker
And the next thing I knew was the rifle recoiled and imprinted in my mind was a picture of those crosshairs on the front of his shoulder. And that bull had just taken ah ah leap, right? He's running all out and his front legs just stayed back.
01:12:35
Speaker
And he supermanned for about 20 feet before he landed on his brisket and slid out of sight over the brow of the hill. And I threw another cartridge in immediately, put the safety on and went running up there. you're running and now we're Now we're running.
01:12:51
Speaker
yeah Yeah. I wasn't dead sure where I'd hit him. Right. I felt like, well, I knew the shot was good, both by where my crosshairs had been when the trigger broke and where, and his reaction. Right.
01:13:03
Speaker
And then I heard my hunting companions both whooping too. And unknown to me, they could actually see the bull. I couldn't see them because of the timber. Right. But he was close enough. Anyway, they'd seen him go down.
01:13:15
Speaker
I ran up there and sure enough, he was done. And I'd punched him with 180 grain federal trophy bonded tip bullet out of a 300 Winchester Magnum center through both shoulders, took out both shoulders and just broke his chassis down, right?
01:13:31
Speaker
Double lunged him. I couldn't have made a more perfect shot under more challenging circumstances, and yet it was only 70 yards.
01:13:42
Speaker
I tell people that was the most crucial and probably the most difficult shot of my life, and it was inside 100 yards. Kimber controlled feed rifle with a Bartline barrel on it.
01:13:54
Speaker
And i had shot that rifle extensively. It's like a part of me, which is another important ye element to me making that shot. Right. I didn't even think about taking the safety off.
01:14:06
Speaker
I don't remember raising the rifle. I don't remember looking through the scope. I just remember seeing the elk flickering through the trees and my crosshairs. And then suddenly the rifle went off when he was in this little gap and those crosshairs were glued to the front of his shoulder.
01:14:22
Speaker
And that bull scored four Oh two as well.
Conclusion: Media Presence and Career Insights
01:14:26
Speaker
Oh man. So there you have it folks. Joseph on Benedict once in a lifetime tag. Did it bring a six Creedmoor?
01:14:35
Speaker
he brought 180 grain. bonded bullet with a 300 wind mag because he knows when he's got that tag in his pocket he wants to make sure he has the authority to kill it joseph what a fun podcast i just appreciate everything you do for the hunting industry i'm a big fan of you my pictures fell off the wall i'm a big fan of you and everything you do um man where can we find you the backcountry hunting podcast what else we got Yeah, the podcast is probably the primary point for people that are looking for content online. I also have a small but rapidly growing YouTube channel that's curated, edited, published by my son, William. He's 14 and a lot more tech savvy than I am. and
01:15:20
Speaker
And so you can find some of our stuff on there. ah we'd appreciate you following along on both the podcast and the the YouTube channel. And then of course my full-time gig is a writer. I write for shooting and hunting magazines for living have done for many, many years, shooting times, rifle shooter magazine. Those are the two technical shooting magazines. I, I do most for Peterson's hunting. I'm the Western hunting editor for Peterson's hunting, let's do some for guns and ammos, a special interest magazines.
01:15:50
Speaker
fact, Most for them, I mean, I do about, what is it, 18 articles a year for them, where I do about 15 or so for the others each.
01:16:02
Speaker
ah Those are only found on newsstands and are dedicated topics, AR-15, precision rifle, backcountry hunter, so forth. Yeah, just look for me wherever you find outdoor content. Yeah.
01:16:17
Speaker
Man, Joseph, I appreciate it. Let's do it again. i look forward hopefully growing this relationship and go give Joseph a follow, man. He just he just knows he knows what he knows and he knows a lot more than most people do. So thank you, Joseph. Oh, thank you, my friend. It's been an honor and a privilege to be here. I really enjoyed this conversation with you.
01:16:35
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Tricer podcast. Do us a favor and like and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening on. Give us a follow on Instagram and Facebook at TricerUSA and go and check out all of our innovative gear at www.tricerusa.com.
01:16:51
Speaker
Until next time, shoot straight, have fun, and always put God first.