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From The Mountains to the Deep Blue Sea: Cliff Gray on Outfitting, Hunting and Spear Fishing
112 Plays17 hours ago
Drew Miles and the Tricer Podcast host Cliff Gray, discussing Cliff’s extensive experience in the hunting industry and his expertise in elk hunting. They delve into Cliff’s unconventional lifestyle, which includes homeschooling his children and living in various places around the world, highlighting both the benefits and challenges of such a life. Cliff shares his background in a corporate finance role to running a successful outfitting business in Colorado and British Columbia. After selling his business sooner than expected, Gray reflects on his newfound opportunities and future plans within the hunting community.
CLIFF GRAY
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cliffgry/
Website - https://pursuitwithcliff.com
TRICER USA
Website – https://tricerusa.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tricerusa/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tricerusa/
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@tricer6985
#Tricer #TricerTripods #WesternHunting #ElkHunting #BackcountryHunter #LongRangeHunting #HuntPodcast #PublicLandHunter #HuntingLifestyle #RifleSeason #MountainHunting #HuntTheWest #HuntingCulture #ModernOutfitter #DIYHunter #FieldToTable #HunterConservationist #WesternBigGame
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Transcript
Introduction and Opening Prayer
00:00:01
Speaker
You are listening to the Tricer podcast, where we talk all things hunting, gear, and the great outdoors. Before we begin, let's start things out right and put God first. Lord Jesus, I thank you for Tricer, and I ask that you can use this podcast as a way to bring joy to all of our listeners.
00:00:17
Speaker
We lay Tricer and this podcast at your feet. Amen.
Guest Introduction: Cliff Gray
00:00:22
Speaker
All right. Got a fun one. I've got Cliff Gray on the podcast today. If you don't know Cliff, he is probably one of the most knowledgeable.
Cliff's Life and Career
00:00:32
Speaker
hunters in the industry. um i would say he's pretty quiet, but he he does have a lot of content out there. And when Cliff speaks, people listen. He's someone who I know that when I want to know about elk hunting, I'll watch Cliff's videos, how-tos.
00:00:47
Speaker
And they're very just direct and to the point. And you can tell they're they're no fluff. They're not like him trying to sell something. It's just like, hey, this is how you kill an elk. And he'll tell you how to do it. So Cliff, dude, how you doing?
00:00:58
Speaker
Good, man. Thanks for having me. It's a glorious intro too so i i thank you for that too man i got a lot of respect for you and we do have a lot of mutual friends um cliff i know cliff does some stuff with jay scott a little as well he was doing his pod a little bit and uh any friend of jay definitely want to be a friend of mine because i just you know i love jay so much everyone who listening to this pod knows that but yeah dude um i wanted to have you on because you kind of have like the, like a really cool life.
00:01:26
Speaker
Right. And I talk a lot on this podcast. Like I think I have the coolest job in the world with Tracer. I get to hunt, you know, hundred plus days a year, travel my family, cool things. And you've kind of structured your life in a similar way. remember listening on Cody Richards podcast. You guys talked about a little bit like homeschooling your kids and and you're living in different places in the world. And I just kind of want to talk to you a little bit. We can get into more stuff too, but I really just kind of wanted break down who you are and, you know, how you got to where you are today. Like, mean, who's Cliff Gray?
00:01:53
Speaker
What do you guys do? Sure. Yeah, man, i can I can give you some color on my my current lifestyle too. It's it's funny, and I'm sure you can relate to this, Drew.
Transition and Life in Puerto Rico
00:02:04
Speaker
Everybody sees the outcome of a bunch of different life choices, but they also don't see the things that... you know the things that you know, maybe I deal with day to day that are that are maybe not as appealing about my lifestyle, right? So it's not, you know, there's always there's always room for improvement. But I also think there's there's also room for transparency. I'm like, hey, if you if you live this way, there's a couple little little challenges too. So I'd love to talk about that, that stuff. But beyond that, man, I'm very grateful for where I'm at and what I'm able to do on a on a day to day, you know, day to day basis. And I'm very much an outdoors guy. So
00:02:44
Speaker
you know, that component of my life is very important too. So still get to hunt a lot, still get to guide a lot. i know I'm an obsessive spear fisherman. That's, I don't do a whole lot of public stuff on that, but that's probably one of my like biggest passions in life. and And it has been for quite a while and then it's become more so. And I think that's some of my life decisions are specifically about that too. You know, if I was being honest, Drew. So the short and sweet man is I, I came from a cattle ranching slash outfitting family for a short period of time in my early twenties, I worked just in the very corporate finance world.
00:03:21
Speaker
Um, I sold a small business in that world that me and my brother started. i just, I sold it to him and he's run it ever since. And, uh, I, uh, it's, um mean, we could probably talk about it for hours, but I ended up kind of haphazardly getting back into the outfitting business.
00:03:38
Speaker
And then I really thought it was going to be a hobby. And then it became my life for, you know, majority of my say like professional slash adult life is has been in the outfitting world in Colorado.
00:03:51
Speaker
I had a big, but a big booking business in British Columbia for a period of time during that time also. And, uh, and then kind of in a, I, the short of it is, is I, because of ah bunch of Unique things about that business or what at least I feel is unique, including like the the huge equine part of it, the horse and mule component of it. And I had a lodge. I had all these different moving parts in my outfitting business.
00:04:19
Speaker
I thought it was going to take me a very long time to sell it. And I actually sold it in a pretty short period of time. And yeah, so I, I ran the business one year after I sold it. I sold it to some great people. I had a great crew.
00:04:32
Speaker
The crew that I had at that time still primarily runs it. They've expanded it a little bit, but I, I kind of was thrown into like, Oh, okay, what do I do next? Cause I had a, I had a runway.
00:04:45
Speaker
which, yeah or I thought I had a runway because it's going to take me a while to sell it. And then I just moved on with the the next stage of my life. And at that point I started splitting my time half in the States and then half in Puerto Rico. So I spend, yeah, it just depends on the year, but six or seven months in Puerto Rico.
00:05:03
Speaker
And then I come back up to the States and I do a bunch of guide. And I think I'll guide somewhere between 70 and a hundred days or so here. And then by the time it starts getting cold, Maybe this is like my old age or something, but I'll guide a few cow elk hunts or something in December. But for the most part, man, I'm i'm done guiding by October 20th or so. So I guide until then and then and then I head back to the Caribbean.
Entrepreneurship and Risk-Taking
00:05:27
Speaker
That's the that's the short of it. Well, I mean, I guess that's that's me.
00:05:32
Speaker
Yeah, man, that's that's awesome. It's cool to hear that you've, like, I'm curious, like you were in the business world and that you said the finance world, is that what you're in? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and I mean, I was like me and my brother basically had like a proprietary trading type of investment management company at that time.
00:05:52
Speaker
And you don't strike me as the kind of person who would love having a nine to five. Yeah, no. so So, yeah. Well, here's my thoughts on it. We're being tied down to tied down to it.
00:06:04
Speaker
Yeah. So my thoughts on it is i'm not I'm not as negative on like the finance corporate world. as people probably think I would be. um There's aspects of it and then particularly entrepreneurship. So I had a short period of time. I worked for other people, really short period of time. i it i mean, for like eight months, I worked in like the corporate world.
00:06:28
Speaker
And then I did my own thing with my brother. And then I worked for one of our big investors, invest investors kind of in a remote way while I started the outfitting business. So I haven't really spent a whole lot of time working for other people. But there's things about that world that I miss in some ways. Like there's this crazy, you know intellectually stimulating. i mean, guys that I worked with, guys that I competed with were literally like quantitative people.
00:06:58
Speaker
I mean, they should have been rocket scientists. They shouldn't have been traders. Right. So so I dealt with, you know, people who i would view as like highly intelligent, constantly, you know, solving problems.
00:07:10
Speaker
All of those things I really liked about it, i think. the bit And i and i like I've always liked entrepreneurship, and I'm sure you can relate to that. If you're wired like an entrepreneur, that's pretty much what you're going to do, right? You're either going to be entrepreneur, going to be a criminal, or you're going to work outside that. It's obsessive. I tell my wife all the time, I'll never stop buying and building businesses, right? Right. I'm just wired to do it, right? Yeah.
00:07:36
Speaker
Like I get on the phone, like I just have like a an hour call with, I don't want to say the person's name, a big influencer. He's got a big media company and i was just going over just doing business stuff with him. Cause like when you're entrepreneur, you just love it.
00:07:49
Speaker
Like, especially when you, like you just love like giving insight and and trying to find a way to grow something, make something better. Right. Like it's just, you can't help, but you can't help, but do it almost. It's like, you just naturally just start fixing things and and making things better.
00:08:02
Speaker
Right. And I think, dude, I think that's important because I do feel like Drew, we're shifting into a world where if you're if you're not interested in entrepreneurship or you like your nine to five, you're kind of like people viewed as like a lower status thing or whatever. Dude, I think there's, I mean, I guide a lot of people, Drew, that are very happy in that world.
00:08:25
Speaker
And I mean, I think there's important things that you should do if you're in that world. You should figure out how to you know, get paid really well for your time, you know, get some sort of scale in your career path, like all these nitty gritty things.
00:08:36
Speaker
But dude, I don't think that if you're wired to like that, you should not become an entrepreneur. I think that is like a trail to depression, you know? Oh man. Like it's like, I like, I love risk.
00:08:50
Speaker
Sure. Like the amount of risk I take with my company and what I do like would drive people crazy. lot of guys aren't wired for that. a lot of guys are wired to be integrators, right? If you read that book, rocket fuel, right? It talks about like visionaries and integrators. i had' It's a good book. It's a really good book. You'd like it.
00:09:04
Speaker
But like a lot of people are are wired to be like really good employees and they really love it. I love doing numbers, love doing those things. Like I'm not knocking it at all. Right. Like, um, my oldest boy is going to go to school to be a lawyer.
00:09:15
Speaker
Right. Like he wants to be in that world. He wants to be a lawyer. Right. um But there is, and I don't think that every person should be an entrepreneur at all. Like I think some people humbill are not wired for it, right?
00:09:27
Speaker
Like there's a lot of ah suffering that has to go into being entrepreneur. But I tell people all the time that I could always be an employee. Sure. Like you're never going to know unless you try, right? That's why I always encourage people to to try it at least. I'm like, well, what's the worst that's happen? You quit your job, you go out and do this, you lose some money, then you come back and get your job back again. Like why not go and do it? And I think that's the biggest selling block for some people who want to get into entrepreneurship or want to get to maybe a point like Cliff, if we we're living six months in the Puerto Rico is they're just so afraid to start.
Homeschooling and Family Priorities
00:09:59
Speaker
Right. It's like what's the worst that can happen? You go back to having a job again in two years. Like what's what, you know, you're lose your house. sure Yeah, particularly when you're young and you don't have like a ton of obligations, you know. Well, and the other well yeah, so to finish my thought on the corporate thing and then I want to hit on that, Drew. So the the thing about that, dude, is like one of the biggest things for me is like structuring my life. I couldn't live in an urban environment, man.
00:10:21
Speaker
And I did. Like I lived in Dallas. I lived in New York. I lived in Manhattan. I lived in Chicago. I lived in San Francisco during that period of time. And like there's no way that I could do what I wanted to do in life growing up as like an outdoors person.
00:10:35
Speaker
hunting fishing type of guy. So that was a big issue, just the structure of my life. Right. And, um, but back to your, your, your point about, ah you know, trying it.
00:10:45
Speaker
What's interesting to me is that, like you said, you can try it and then you can, um, And then you can always go back to but you know, it's like a normal traditional career path. But the thing is, is you, it gets harder as you get older. Like I see this amongst my peers and um i don't want this. What you get.
00:11:05
Speaker
Yeah. And I don't, it's, it's a hard one to talk about without sounding egotistical, but cause I get quite like, I live in two kind of weird worlds, Drew. Like I have my guy, have my guiding in like a very, a world that,
00:11:20
Speaker
You know, I'm around a bunch of hunting guides, clients going hunting, and all of that stuff. And then due to who some of my clientele are, and then some of the, you know, some of the folks that I'm like like in the circle within Puerto Rico, including my, my brother and that sort of thing.
00:11:34
Speaker
Like I see both of these worlds. One, one. of which from a societal standard would be viewed as like very high status, right? Like, you know, wealthy people, famous people, whatever. And a lot of times when I'm in conversations with those people, they kind of ask me, well, why have you chose this other path?
00:11:53
Speaker
Like with your whatever, education background, whatever, that's not hunting related. And the thing that's weird to me, Drew, is it's like, well, it gets to your point. Like I can always do what you do.
00:12:05
Speaker
Like to this day, man, like I haven't, I haven't traded ah financial instrument in that sense. Like I just have a norm. I just run my personal finances, like a normal guy.
00:12:16
Speaker
Yeah. It's all like indexed, like nothing fancy. Yeah. But dude, there is no doubt in my mind that next week I could go back to that world and crush it.
00:12:27
Speaker
Like if I if I wanted to go get a job making half a million bucks as a prop trader, I could do it next week. And I haven't done it in 10 years. But the thing is, it's like so I'm not worried about it.
00:12:39
Speaker
You know what I mean? It's not like I don't feel i think there's this tendency for people to feel like, oh, they're giving up everything in their life if they go go try something. But I also realized that I've tried so many different things in life that, and maybe it's an irrational confidence. I don't know, but it's there.
00:12:57
Speaker
You know, I don't, that's my thoughts on, I don't know. I don't know if you can relate it or not. No, I can really 100%. And, you know, I was, i ran my father's sheet metal company for 20 years, you know, from 4 a.m. until 4 p.m. every single day, till project managers, most weeks, six days a week.
00:13:14
Speaker
I had the job making a lot of money and I left that company last year, right? And I had family members calling me like, what are you doing? This is your, you're an inter-parent. I'm like, you don't understand. Like, I'm, Like I have a chance to go and do something right now with Tricer and to be with my children and have this life that is just so much better than that.
00:13:34
Speaker
Right. So much better than the constant work and the stresses of work. And then trust me, I have stresses today. Trust me. I mean, I'm dealing with, yeah yeah I mean, you've heard the terror force going on right now. I mean, I'm, trust me, I'm dealing with stuff. Right. But you know, it's a different kind of stress and it's allowed me to have a freedom where yes, like when I left that company, I'm making less money now than I was then.
00:13:54
Speaker
But i have so much more freedom, right. To do things and to go and so go live in Hawaii for a month or take my kid to Africa with me last week and go hunting with them. Right. And, and to go do things, you know, and that's something to be said, like, not even that, just like go to soccer practice, right. or get up and go to Lego land. Like it's, it's I made a little structure my life in a way that, um, is much more rewarding than money.
00:14:21
Speaker
Right. And I could go, i could go work right now. And I think I've proven that with the amount of stuff I've invented in the last two years, I go to any outdoors company in the country right now and go work for him They'd gladly hire me. Right. Cause I can, I can make you money. I could print you money. Any company I go to, I can design things for you.
00:14:35
Speaker
But man, like there's something to be said about that freedom of not being tied down to it. And I, I think if I'm probably going to head of us here with the homeschooling thing. Like one of the most beautiful things about homeschooling my kids is I'm designing, I'm helping to grow kids who aren't just being molded into these employees that go into this system.
00:14:56
Speaker
Right. Right. I'm able to, I'm able to build these leaders who can make these decisions and not just be like, I feel like a public school system is so built to just build these like nine to five employees versus these free thinking entrepreneurs or innovators or, you know, leaders and,
00:15:13
Speaker
Right. Like it's, it's kind of building sheep versus building leaders. And it doesn't even have to be necessarily and entrepreneur. It's just giving somebody the the ability to think outside the box. And I and i think that like homeschooling my kids, like I said, I brought my 11 old Africa with me for two weeks. Right.
00:15:28
Speaker
Right. He was sitting there with me with Eva Shockey's husband, with the owner of half face blades. He sitting there with me with the owner of mountain ops. You know, we were doing missions work and he's getting a life lesson that he would never get in school.
00:15:43
Speaker
Right. And it's like so much of the, i put this so much of what you learn in school really isn't even applicable to life. You kind of lose the life skills side of it.
00:15:54
Speaker
And that's one of the things that i love about homeschooling as well. And I know that you guys are doing the same thing. but i have to imagine having your kids in Puerto Rico half the time and then up here, they're getting a much different experience. Are they speaking Spanish now as well?
00:16:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're, they're getting better and better at it. They're getting some life experiences that are very valuable. Right. And what's what's interesting about it, dude, and I'd love to hear your perspective on it, Drew.
00:16:18
Speaker
What's amazing to me, because me and my wife like still talk about the whole homeschooling deal. We we both went to public school. And there's like this cold there's still ah an amazing amount of cultural pressure. like even yeah Even after you know you hear very transparent facts about how inefficient the public school system is,
00:16:42
Speaker
When you start homeschooling, i mean, for most, for people who are like thinking about trying it, when you start doing it, one of the things that's going to amaze you is you're going to be thinking to yourself, why are my kids done in three hours? Why are my kids? Two, three hours, bro. They're done.
00:16:59
Speaker
They're done. And then you, and then it's, I don't know how you were drew, but you, you, you're like, okay, well, something's missing, right? Like, but and then you get like, you go through the standard things like, well, are they,
00:17:10
Speaker
are they becoming like social degenerates, right? And then you realize that, okay, if you make an effort at it, there's other homeschool kids around. They seem to be just kids and they got friends. believe Not only that, but your kids are socializing with adults.
00:17:26
Speaker
Yeah. They're actually so far beyond their peers, right? I mean, like kids are, junior hires are the dumbest. I'm in ministry, right? Like I have a junior high group. i I've got high school groups. Like junior high groups are the...
00:17:38
Speaker
the dumbest human beings in the world. Is that who you want? You're like teaching your kids. You know what I mean? Like, dude, like your, your kids out there, like I bring my boys and hunts with me. They're going to trade shows and they're doing things with me. They're learning, they're getting, they're kind conversing with me and my wife and they're getting that level of interaction. Not like,
00:17:55
Speaker
kicking each other in the nuts and these dudes these dudes still get to kick each other in the nuts stuff because we do go to bunch church group stuff and we do do some like co-op stuff with other families and stuff but dude like that whole like your kid's gonna be a dork thing it's like dude i don't want my kid to be cool like i'm sorry dude like my kids haven't drank at all i have phenomenal kids like one kid just did three months in hawaii for missionary training now i he's in kyrgyzstan he's going to college like Like I thought for sure my kids were going dumb because I'm not the smartest dude in the world. Like I'm just a hardworking dude. It's all I am.
00:18:24
Speaker
Me and wife barely passed high school and we're training these kids. And now I've got these kids that, you know, he's freaking smart, dude. He's run circles on people. Doing well. And not only is he smart, he's also leaps and bounds beyond his peers because of his work ethic that he's got from being a homeschooler.
00:18:39
Speaker
Sure. yeah Yeah. Well, it just, I mean, part of that's probably just the fact that you're, there's so much more interaction with them. You know what I mean, Drew? And it's, Like, I mean finish my thought on it It's the quantitative part of it too. you know, your kids two or three hours a day and you're thinking like you're missing things and then you test them and they they all do fine. I mean, most, most homeschool kids on average do better than the broader population. There's much, you're like core, you know, a bunch of factors in there that are, that probably mess up that data a little bit. Like one being that parents tend to be a little more involved. Like there's all these other factors. There's probably other demographic differences or whatever, but,
00:19:18
Speaker
You look at it and you're like, well, you just don't worry about it. But you're like, well, what's going on if they're only doing it for two and a half hours? you know But then you can fill that in with other other other things. And – like, dude, I haven't seen my kids in three weeks because I've been guiding.
00:19:31
Speaker
But the flexibility that component – and it seems like such a small thing, the school thing. But, dude, there's stretches of the year that I will take my seven-year-old boy fishing – Like every day for 20 days straight.
00:19:50
Speaker
And I'll take up my daughter who likes lobster diving. I'll take her once a week lobster diving for three, four months. you know My other daughter who doesn't like any of that but likes soccer. Like I can go watch her soccer stuff every time. I've got i've got one of those.
00:20:06
Speaker
Yeah, you got, yeah. so But dude, that stuff is only, dude, I don't know how you grew up, but but my my parents worked their freaking butts off, man. Like they I didn't have, I mean, I love my parents. They did a good job, but I didn't have probably ah tenth the amount of time with my parents that I do with my kids.
00:20:25
Speaker
Dude, so I started working for my dad when I was 12 years old doing side jobs. He ran a sheet metal shop in town. worked every single weekend for Only time I saw my dad was when we worked. When I turned 14, I was working 85 hours a week for my dad. He started my company.
00:20:38
Speaker
Yeah. And then what during the summers, 85 hours a week, 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. When I was in high school, they would pick me up from school. at One of his employees at 2 o'clock, and I worked till 10 o'clock at night every day. The only job I had my father was working. That's it. like To this day, like it's all in the news. We had no relationship outside of that.
00:20:54
Speaker
True. Now, like the freedom to be like, hey, let's go fishing or let's go ride dirt bikes or let's go do something, whatever, it's so much more important to me than like buying them whatever, travel baseball. I mean, my goodness, like it's a that stuff doesn't matter.
00:21:12
Speaker
And honestly, at the end of the day, dude, not all kids are created equally. Like your kids either are dumb or smart. Some kids are dumber than other kids. I'm sorry, man. Like, it's not like every kid's going to be ah every kid's going to rocket scientist either. Right. So you can't think like, Oh, if i homeschool, they're going to be dumb. Like some kids are going to be,
00:21:28
Speaker
whatever, you know, they're going to be construction. Maybe they're to do it. And I'm not knocking construction. I think the trades are awesome. I was in the building trades for 20 years. I think it's a phenomenal career, but like, you can't be afraid that. Like, like, I don't know how to go with that.
00:21:43
Speaker
Like everyone, it's like with baseball, everyone thinks their kid's going to be like a professional baseball player now. Right. and they're paying for Travel baseball coaches and trainers. And it's like, dude, the end of the day, your kid's going be 18 years old and probably and not a professional baseball player.
00:21:55
Speaker
yeah Right. And everyone now thinks like, oh my God, I got to get my kid into, we have to do pre-K, all these different things. And we have to get, you know go to this school and do these three different languages and do this stuff. And it's like, dude, and mean none of that matters.
00:22:08
Speaker
And you're getting, you're going wake up one day. It just happened to me. Your kid's going 18 and you're move out of the house. And going to like, Man, I missed it all. Yeah, yeah, sure. And that's my biggest fear. And I'm seeing it now, right? Like with my 18 year old and we didn't get, we, we've got a ton of awesome hunts since he was a kid. And and I was, I mean, i was working full time. I was working 16 hours a day up until, you know, last year when I quit.
00:22:30
Speaker
But man, I missed a lot of his life because I was working so much, gone all the time, just striving, chasing, chasing this like move, you know, these moving goalposts.
00:22:41
Speaker
And now with my other kids, like just being able to have that time with them is so invaluable. yeah man like you're going like people talk about the time like oh man i remember my kid was that age and i'm at that age now where i'm like holy smokes dude my kid's gone right yeah yeah no i get it man i mean it go i mean even with my kids like having you know i spent a lot of time with them it's still amazing how quick it goes but man is that the other homeschool thing i'll say and do they will for sure be people who disagree with this this concept but Man, I look back at my childhood and I didn't go to ah I went to ah high school and middle school that were pretty, you know, like 25, 30% of the kids never graduated. So it was like a mixed bag, you know what mean?
00:23:26
Speaker
But when I look back at it, man, I'm so glad that I, like went down this black diamond ski hill of friends and didn't end up connecting with like the wrong, like the wrong friends.
00:23:41
Speaker
I mean, dude, if, if some, I mean, there's like individual like girls in high school that if they would have given me the time of day, my whole trajectory, my life would have changed. Right.
00:23:53
Speaker
Like, I mean, you know, there's, there's certain, you know, guys that if they became very good friends with me instead of the other friends I had, Like it would have changed. that i I think I can transparently look back at it and be like, those were huge in just avoiding a bunch of things that could have destroyed my life.
00:24:13
Speaker
And the thing is, dude, with homeschool, like if my daughters are hanging out with with a kid that I don't want them to hang out with, they're not going to hang out with them. Yeah.
00:24:24
Speaker
You know what I mean? It sounds cruel, but it is it is a nice aspect of it, man. A hundred percent, dude. And honestly, like you look back at high school and like how many those, like, it's like, do to have the high school? do you have the experiences? Like as an adult now, how many dudes from high school do you still have a very close relationship with?
00:24:44
Speaker
Right. yeah Yeah. I mean like a couple dude. And it's not even a close relationship. Like I have like maybe three to five dudes that we still text each other, you know, every once in a while, like, Oh man, I saw a picture of us and I, you know, or whatever, or I'm going hunting over here. Like,
00:24:59
Speaker
those relationships don't matter. Right. What matters is creating like good adults and good, good human beings. And yeah, i mean, me and my wife were not great people, right? Like we' were doing drugs. We were partying all the time. Like we're by the grace of God, we are where we are today.
00:25:14
Speaker
But like, that was like, why do want my kids to have that experience? like ah Like, why am I fighting for my kids to have that experience when I can have them with me? Right. But it does take sacrifice as a parent, as a family, right? Like my wife could work.
00:25:27
Speaker
We choose not to have her work, right? We choose to make less money. We choose to live up to our means. Like we we drive older cars, right? Like I bought a 2016 van, right? I bought her a 2020 Honda Civic, not a BMW, right? Because we'd rather have that the or her the ability to homeschool than her the Beamer and have her have to get a job and have, you know, do other things.
00:25:49
Speaker
It's a life choice. It's a life choice thing. It's a big thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But, and that's the thing is I think in the conversation, what can get, get lost is I think guys can listen this conversation, Drew, and they can be like, oh, well good for Drew and Cliff because, you know, they must be making some excessive amount of money to be able to have this lifestyle.
00:26:09
Speaker
And like you do, I think that it's, it's not fair to say that you can't, you, you, you do have to figure out a way to make an income to support this, right? Like that's the, that's undeniable. And so that means going have to get creative and you're going to have to figure some things out. Like there is truth to that, but I think it's overstated in the sense that a lot of it is not that a lot of it is sacrifice of other things.
00:26:35
Speaker
You know what mean? Like you said, like my wife works all the time. I don't have as much like on the homeschool front. I don't have as much just time with my wife because we have our kids with us all the time.
00:26:46
Speaker
You know what I mean? And that, you know, so there's things like that, that that for sure, for sure play into the whole, whole deal. And then the other thing is that you, it's hard to do it if you have like a traditional career path. So you gotta, you gotta to factor that in that in too, but there's a bunch of sacrifices and a bunch of hassle that,
00:27:06
Speaker
maybe people don't realize is there, you know, you still got to, you got to deal with that. I did it with a traditional like career path for forever. Right. Like we've homeschooled. We, we homeschooled before, before it was cool. Right. So we homeschooled since from kindergarten through 12th grade, got someone into
Financial Freedom and Simple Living
00:27:22
Speaker
college now. Right. And we did it from the beginning.
00:27:24
Speaker
And, yeah, there's sacrifices there. Most of our sacrifices were always just older cars, dirtier clothes, whatever. My wife's a big thrifter, goes to thrift shop all the time. Like we just found ways to make it work.
00:27:35
Speaker
Um, and I don't regret a minute of it. Like I could, people all the time, I could always make money, but I can't get time with my kids. And one thing I'll tell people too, I know this is turning into a child parenting podcast, but yeah.
00:27:47
Speaker
man, like you get so caught up in the rat race of like, dude, I got to go buy the newest boat, the newest thing. Dude, your kid is just as stoked sitting on the side of a pond with you fishing for bluegill as he is going offshore with you on a big twin engine.
00:28:03
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like you get so caught up in that and you forget like, you know, how much it means to them. Right. Like, you know, you go on these camping trips, right. And it's just a total nightmare. You go camping your family. Like as the dad, like it's just a nightmare from like start to finish. Right. Like you're packing the car, you're doing everything, in especially when they're little, right. Like you get, you're setting everything up.
00:28:24
Speaker
The air mattress is popped. There's six kids on top of you. You know, you're covered in mosquitoes. Everything's going wrong. The stove's not working. Dude, your kids look back at that and it was like the best time of their life. Yeah, yeah.
00:28:35
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, why am I doing this? yeah Why am I doing it? And it's like, enjoy those moments with them. And just, am i I guess my point behind the whole thing is like, you don't have to go and buy a fifth wheel or a giant RV.
00:28:47
Speaker
You can just go down and take a tent out and live that life. And even though it's more simple, it's just as good. Right. like what Yeah, no, I would agree. But also drew like you basically have to actively, you have to actively fight the urge to do that.
00:29:05
Speaker
Yeah. At least, at least I feel that way because dude, there's like, I try to live a very, like pretty much debt free existence, which if a fight and dude, I'm from the finance world. So like I have peers and even my own education is like, Cliff, you're an idiot.
00:29:20
Speaker
Like, why, you know, why don't you have, you know, why don't you have this sort of debt because it's tax efficient and what, there's all these good, like logical reasons.
00:29:31
Speaker
Money's cheap. yeah Yeah. Money's cheap, right? Yeah. Yeah. So you, I, I get it. And I, and I, I, I'm not like naive to that, but I also realized that the whole system is built around you consuming these sorts of things that kind of enslave you.
00:29:48
Speaker
you know, and if you want to if you want to structure your life, you gotta, you have to, if I had, if I had a, a ah big drip of payments I had to make every year, like my transition from when I sold my outfitting business to now would be drastically different.
00:30:07
Speaker
Like I'd be doing fine, but a lot of like what I enjoy my life would not have happened. You know what I mean? And I think that's something that, uh, it can like really sneak up on, on people, you know?
00:30:20
Speaker
And it it is what it is because it's hard. Like I'm probably not going to have a hundred million dollars in my life because I got no, left I got no, like I stay away from financial leverage, but it's like, you know, but a lot of the ways that I'm doing things in my life and the things that I think intrinsically make me happy and allow me to do some of these, these adventures. Like I, even I reflect on some of the things I'm able to do and I'm like, man, this is kind of,
00:30:46
Speaker
pretty blessed to be able to do this kind of crap, you know? So, but that's a, that part of it is a big one for me at least. Well, you have to look at things too. Like what value do you put on your time and your experiences?
00:30:58
Speaker
Right. You know what i mean? Like, would you rather work to get the hundred million dollars and then never experience anything or work to retire with a million or $2, right?
00:31:11
Speaker
Or maybe a half a million dollars. Right. But have lived a full life where you experienced everything. Sure. You know what i mean? Like maybe you're tired with nothing, but you experienced everything. Right. And it's just, there's nothing be said about it.
00:31:22
Speaker
And I think we all experience it when we're out and like, When you go backpacking, right? Like I'm going to go backpack, me and Cody Rich going bear hunting in a couple of weeks. Like that's my happy place.
00:31:33
Speaker
And that's one thing I love about hunting. Cliff, tell people all time. Like one thing I love about the hunting industry is it's like the great equalizer. It doesn't matter how much money you have. You can only carry one backpack, but only carry a tent. You can only carry sleeping bag. Like when you're out there, you're just out there.
00:31:49
Speaker
Nothing else matters. And man, it's like, it's like when we go out and do have those experiences, don't know about you, but it's like, dude, I could be here forever. right But then we come back get sucked in that rat race again and all this other stuff. And it's like, dude, think about how simple that life is.
00:32:03
Speaker
That life is literally a backpack, a freaking rifle. doesn't need to be the craziest. it could be of like i so i've been The last couple of years I've been shooting a Woodstock.30-06. Everyone's tired of me hearing about it but i've been shooting a Woodstock.800 rifle the last couple of years. Every one hunts.
00:32:15
Speaker
Custom guns are in the safe. like you It doesn't take much to have that life. Right. But so much of our time is spent on, uh, I'm sorry. Uh, I'll, I'll digress in one minute.
00:32:26
Speaker
So much of our time is spent on like, man, I better go buy that $10,000 rifle versus like, man, I better go buy that tag for 800 bucks, take a week off of work. And it costs me three grand, but like there's some, for some reason the $10 rifle is more obtainable than the $3,000 hunt, because I i don't know. Cause like time, i don't know. Time is weird.
00:32:45
Speaker
don't know. Well, when when we go hunting, and dude, I have the same experience. Like when I go hunting, when I go guiding, particularly for long periods of time where, and we could get into like another discussion because I think a lack of connectivity connectivity also does it for me.
00:33:00
Speaker
And I'm really, i really fear in the future of hunting that that's not, that won't exist. theres go Starlink dude is like, yeah, go it's going away. It's going away quicker than we can say. Right. Which, which to me is a bummer and can get into like a real, almost like woo woo conversation about it. But One thing that when I'm disconnected, man, for a period of time or just out hunting for a period of time, like usually when I get to like seven, eight, nine, 10 days, you ah you start to realize like what the real construct is, right?
00:33:29
Speaker
It's not a lot of people who who just get to go out and enjoy the outdoors for three or four days at a time or a couple days at a time. They think that the construct is like,
00:33:40
Speaker
going hunting or going backpacking or being in the outdoors. And that's just like a hobby. And what you realize if you're out there for a long period of time is all this other bullshit. That's the fake.
00:33:51
Speaker
That's the fake part of us as humans. The real part is when you're there, and then in you in how simple life is you know what i mean and what's weird about it i think if if you've never done like long duration trips you folks may have never felt it but a lot of times once you get over the discomfort and you start to get in like a new you uh you're you're comfortable in the day-to-day of living in your backpack tent or your wall tent if you're dragging horses around the wilderness or whatever if you're in there long enough
00:34:24
Speaker
you get into that groove. And that's a big part, a big part of like discomfort in the mountains, man. I think it's people overemphasize that it's the cold and the rain and all of that.
00:34:35
Speaker
It's the mental. Yeah. Well, it's the mental dude for me. Right. Well, and a lot of it is that your transition, like your, everything that you do day to day shifts, you know i mean? So your brain is like, what's going on here? Let's go back to like the normal routine, you know? So you have this like, you need this urge to quit and all this comes from,
00:34:54
Speaker
from that But once you overcome it and you're like, oh, I can just keep doing this. What happens is when you come back to like the real world, you will get a almost, it's like a sinking slash like want to throw up feeling.
00:35:10
Speaker
I felt that a lot. i want I want to ask you about that. I was going to talk about this. So when I get home, I sometimes will go let sleep in my yard. Yeah. I'll go out. I can't like, a dude, like it's weird. It's almost like it's like going feral.
00:35:24
Speaker
Do you have that same experience? Like there's, I have like an outdoor couch. I'll go out and lay on my outdoor couch and just get out of my bed. Like, and my wife's like I don't understand. Like, what are you doing? I'm like, I can't be in here right now. Like, I just like, like there's, you almost have to go feral, dude.
00:35:37
Speaker
Yeah. you You ever feel kind of like confined when you to get back? Yeah, of course. I mean, I, I, I be, I think most of my feeling of confinement drew is like around all this business shit I have to do.
00:35:49
Speaker
And literally like there's part, cause I would, You know, I spent a lot of time in wilderness areas where I came out like on the same physical trail. And so I would literally be b like stringing out horses. And when I hit switchbacks where it's like a defined moment in the topography, because I hit switchbacks where I start coming down in the valley, the valley is developed.
00:36:10
Speaker
So when I hit those switchbacks, I see my hunting lodge. I see the lights of the city, all of that. And that's when you get this like sinking feeling, right? And has nothing to do – has nothing to do – it's unrelated to the fact that, yeah, of course, I want to see my kids. I want to see my wife and all of that. That's different. it what it what it But it's it's this feeling in your mind like, oh, I have to transition back to this bullshit.
00:36:37
Speaker
You know what I mean? And in that that is very – I feel it all the time. I mean, do I feel it in airplanes flying out of, you know, remote airstrips in, you know, Idaho or whatever. The minute I see the city, it's like, oh, it's not like I'm not, I'm ready to take it on. But at the same time, i'm like, oh, yeah, like this is this simplicity is going to stop.
00:36:58
Speaker
You know, it's a it's a weird feeling. It is, man. I tell people all the time, i'm like, you'll know I made it because I'll disappear and I'll live somewhere like a wood stove. Yeah. Like my happy, like I've done, like my wife obviously likes doing fancy resorts and stuff. And I am so much happier sleeping in my topper on my truck or on the ground somewhere than I am in a resort. Like I just, sure so I love the simplicity of it. Right.
00:37:22
Speaker
I'll talk a little, this is going off that note, but um but like it's being a slave to things or even like having to, it takes a few days to kind of wind out of it. Dude, i I gave up Instagram, right? took it off my phone and Facebook. I gave it... have...
00:37:34
Speaker
Luke Duesenberry. Do you know Luke Duesenberry? My name sounds really familiar. Phenomenal. Probably the best videographer in the industry. He's he's phenomenal. You watch of the high end Go Hunt films or Leopold films. he's Luke's the guy doing them.
00:37:45
Speaker
So Luke luka and his wife are running my social media now. And dude, like it took me like a month to not be like stressing out. Like, cause I was on my phone so much. I mean, probably four hours a day. Just like me. Now I'm like, kind of like, what do I do with my time?
00:38:00
Speaker
yeah It's so weird. I feel like I've got all this time now. I don't know. I feel like I'm not doing anything. like i'm like But it's it's a good thing. Tell Luke to call me, dude. because i'm i it's It's brutal, man.
00:38:13
Speaker
it's It's brutal how much time I waste on my phone when I'm connected. Bro. hours and hours a day of just me just looking at you just you don't even realize you open up and you look at it just open it what am I looking at the same thing over and over again it's like and you get to a point where you have a lot of followers so you get a lot of you're just looking at same like or the same comment or you know it's just like oh man it's so pointless but like getting rid of that like the freedom I have right now is awesome it's only been like it's it's been a month and a half and since I did that and I'm just now getting to a point where I'm not looking for Instagram on my phone anymore but um
00:38:48
Speaker
but but how do do But I have to ask though, Drew, because the way I view it and I've gone like with cycles with it is like your Instagram is a valuable part of your business.
00:39:00
Speaker
yeah indeed It's the most valuable part. Yeah. I'm the face of it. Right. And so there's, I mean, it sounds like you got good help and that's the solution, right? Like you you get some, you get some help. Yeah. So the only thing we we're we're not getting so much of now is so much access to me with like the the everyday, the shorts and stories, right? ah stories but what But what they are getting is way more high quality content out of me.
Social Media and Productivity
00:39:23
Speaker
Sure. So I'm, but I'm still making a ton of content, right? Like I'm really, you can spend time on that instead of yeah instead of looking at my phone. Yes. I'm just creating like, I mean, I've got a baller camera. I actually just bought another lens, but I went to Africa. I took six or 700 pictures buying back for them. Like here's some content. You know what I mean? Like I wasn't on my phone. I was doing that, you know? And honestly, I'm not using my phone anymore for content. using a a real high end about real Nikon Z9. I got real nice lenses and I'm using that.
00:39:48
Speaker
And It's just been so much more freeing to do that and then have to come back, sit on my laptop and edit, it you know, edit Lightroom or Photoshop and do that. Like, I feel like it's so much more rewarding than just like being on my phone and taking a reel on my phone real quick.
00:40:01
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, it's just, you get, you're still getting the content from me. just more high quality. I think we've become, we're at a point now society where we feel like we have to have social media. We have to have this, right? if If I'm not running it, but it's like, do I?
00:40:14
Speaker
like I can still have my company run, but I can have so i could pay someone to do it. I can probably make yeah better content. like What is Tracer better? Is Tracer better if Drew's on his phone for hours looking at Instagram or Tracer better if Drew goes out and develops another tripod?
00:40:26
Speaker
Right. Sure. I'll tell you what right now on this podcast, there's some stuff coming out that's going to blow your minds this fall. Right. And it's happened since I got off of social media. Like there's some stuff that's going to your minds this fall.
00:40:40
Speaker
We will be undisputed champs comes to tripods, which I know Cliff's not a big tripod guy. I can't even get your bipod. so It's coming. It's coming.
00:40:51
Speaker
Right. but like what So like really like what's more important to Tricer? Me being on Instagram or me making a bitch and bipod? Right. Right. but probably got But you still got to have, you still got to have it.
00:41:03
Speaker
Yeah. It's a necessary evil. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yep. No, I'm, I'm, I'm with you on that, dude. And it is amazing though. Like I'm sure many people who don't use, yeah you know, Instagram or whatever for their business, they may not be able to relate how, how how powerful it is that like sucking you in.
00:41:23
Speaker
Oh dude, that's my issue is I'm just so obsessive compulsive with everything that I can't, I can't have it on my phone. I'll look at it for, dude, I'll have eight hours of screen time in a day. Cause I'll go from my emails to that. And then i there um on then I go right to my emails and it's just like, dude, like, yes, it's important, but I, I, it controls me. Become a slave to it. Become a slave to Instagram or so YouTube or whatever it is you're doing. Right. I'm just so obsessed with it.
00:41:47
Speaker
Um, but I'm finding that it's helping, you know, I know that Lorenzo from GoHunt, he, he did it. Uh, I listened to this guy, Jace. Um, he's a, does Gypsy Tales podcast. He does the same thing. Only goes on his computer. So I have Instagram on my computer now.
00:42:00
Speaker
So like twice a day I go on my computer. I look at stuff on there, check out my reels, check out what's going on. Maybe a comment a couple of times or like some stuff. People said, you know, like, uh, someone commented on my Africa post today. This guy was with, or he was like go Oh yeah, man, like that was great. yeah sure I replied to my computer, turned it off.
00:42:17
Speaker
No one's going to die if I do that again tomorrow. Yeah. Right. Like if it weighs 24 hours. Right. It's like, and that's the thing is I'm still interacting on Facebook and Instagram, but it through my, through my Mac book, you know, I have to walk back to my office, open it up, go to the app, do it.
00:42:32
Speaker
I can't sit on my phone right there and sit there and scroll. Right. And like, how much more present can I be for my kids if I'm doing that? You know? Right. Well, and the thing is, I think that the, the reality is dude, is you're interacting with it. with you're interacting with it the exact way that they don't want you to interact with it yeah you know what i mean like they that's the last thing so everything is built around not that like getting you to scroll the thing for seven or eight hours a day andde they want you to they want because yeah you never go you never go on there don't flip down yeah of course every time you get on you flip down a little bit right you see what's going on this guy's doing this and you click on his thing the another one just like
00:43:10
Speaker
Like, what the heck? Did you ever go on, like, YouTube all sudden you're watching, like, videos of, like, guys the Middle East, like, making clocks? i get Well, yes. Shit like that all time. Dude, all the time I get sucked into, like, something like that. Like, some randomly stupid thing. And I'm like, how did I just watch two hours of...
00:43:27
Speaker
a guy beating a clock out of, you know, molten metal over a tire in India, you know, whatever, you know, I get, I get sucked into that stuff. I think that rolls back. we were We were talking about it before the podcast, man, like who's watching your content.
00:43:42
Speaker
It rolls back to that because you, you, you can kind of like, I've inadvertently created content that I actually thought was like how to content, but it turned out it was like brain dead content and it goes viral.
00:43:57
Speaker
But the people who are watching it, they're just watching it as like a time, like, oh, it's cool that, look at this guy pull the skull plate off of a bull elk. You know what mean? There's like a billion people in China that think that's interesting,
Hunting and Spearfishing Adventures
00:44:12
Speaker
right? Yeah. it's so yeah You know what we can get for those horns over here?
00:44:16
Speaker
Yeah. But you know what I mean? It's like, and it's like oh, it's like it's weird because I think about it as like a creator and I'm sure it's, I'm sure it's kind of limited some of my my growth a little bit because I think about this all the time it maybe maybe to to ah a fault.
00:44:34
Speaker
But it's like, dude, I haven't created any value if just a bunch of people are scrolling through my thing and they they' they have no intention of ever going elk or deer hunting or whatever, but they just think it's cool that you know, um this is, it's kind of like a, like a novelty thing. They watch for 30 seconds and then move on.
00:44:51
Speaker
You know what I mean? Dude, i think of you of like, like a Ron Spumer type guy or like a Joseph on Benedict. Like you guys are like, those are like kind of the guys. If I want knowledge, Jay Scott, like there's guys when I want knowledge, I'm going to watch them that Cliff Gray put out.
00:45:04
Speaker
I think your stuff is great, dude. Like I like, like I don't, I'm not a big fan of like the slap dicks on Instagram or YouTube, but like, I do love like stuff to like, like Joseph on Benedict's coming out morning. Right. To do a pod with me.
00:45:16
Speaker
Like, I just like, I love that kind of stuff where it's just like, it might not even be like, no offense. a little more dry. know what I mean? Like for sure. You're not out there. Like you're like, so you're just like, this is the bread and butter of how you do this. And like, I, that's what i love about you and your content. And you've got a pretty good following. Yeah.
00:45:33
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I got it. I mean, I, you know, I, like I said, I told you before, like, I don't have like the biggest following in the world, but it's big enough and it keeps me, it keeps me busy. And I, and I've tried to key in on like attracting the right.
00:45:47
Speaker
type of fault, like guys that actually want to consume the content. You know what I mean? Yeah. and i mean yeah Go ahead. No, I just think that with your stuff, like if I were to be like, I learned how to hunt from listening to Randy Newberg, Jay Scott, like I didn't start a big game hunting until 2014.
00:46:02
Speaker
Oh, cool. and Like I'm adult onset. Right. And like listening to guys like Cody, ah Cody Nelson and those guys, like I think your stuff is someone like, if you're a new hunter, like you can go look up cliff gray and learn how to hunt.
00:46:13
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And dude, you can, I mean, You can cut off a lot of time. You know what I mean? And in and learn a lot. mean, the thing is, Drew, is like it's kind of like i I model it on things that that I do in my life.
00:46:30
Speaker
Like, dude, I watch a lot of YouTube and none of it is It's funny because I have have some clients that are like some of the most famous YouTubers on earth and their stuff I would never, ever, ever watch.
00:46:44
Speaker
You know what I mean? Cause it's, it's not like anything against them. It's just like, I have no interest in it. Like all my YouTube stuff is how to crap related to some interests. You know what I mean? like Like there's, if somebody asked me, you know, what are your big influences on the content you created?
00:47:01
Speaker
None of them would be hunters. They'd all be like spear fishermen that I watch. You know what I mean? And and so I, I for sure copy the content that I consume. So I, you know ah That's the model I use. yeah that's That's innovation, man. like I'm reading a book right now called How Innovation Works. I'm going to a podcast with Cody Rich on it.
00:47:20
Speaker
That's how innovation works. is you just You kind of just grow on what they're doing. It's not even copying. It's just like, hey, this guy does this. to take that and make it my own somehow and kind of like make Cliff Gray's stuff, right? Yeah, yeah. It's kind of funny too. like i don't know about you, but I don't watch – I almost never listen to hunting podcasts anymore and I don't watch a lot of hunting content anymore because I'm so entrenched in all the time. Like I'm very into like moto. So I'll watch a lot of moto content or photography content, but I don't watch a lot of, uh, like hunting stuff anymore because like I'm constantly filming a film or constantly working on my content. It's like, I'm burnt out on it. You know, I want to do, so I look at other stuff.
00:47:56
Speaker
And cool I guess we'll transition to the spear fishing thing. Are you in like and Puerto Rico? Is that a pole spear only or is that spear guns down there as well? Yes, you can use both in Puerto Rico. Are you using Gatku yet?
00:48:07
Speaker
Pole spears? Yeah, no, I use, ah you know, i have I have a client who makes me pole spears. He makes like, he makes yeah custom pole spears, man. And I, freaking horrible because I can't remember the name of his brand.
00:48:21
Speaker
One of my best friends owns Gatku. Okay. yeah i'm familiar Are you familiar with Gatku? Yeah, sure. They're right here in El Cajon. I mean, a mile from my house. Yeah, it is right here. Cool.
00:48:32
Speaker
I mean, if you're already running one, always because I should get you hooked up with them because he makes, but he calls them the Ferrari of pull spears, right? Yeah, good. Really good pull spears. So, Spear fishing, man.
00:48:44
Speaker
Like I do it a little bit. come from san diego like I'm going to Bay of LA here in a couple of months. Okay. Actually, I'll probably ask you want to go on that trip with us because Brian called us backed out this morning. Yeah. I don't know if you want to go to you like you want go to Bay of LA and go fishing. We're to fishing, dude. We're going to go down. If you know what Bay of LA is.
00:48:59
Speaker
Where is it? So it is like eight hours south the border on the sea of Cortez side. Oh, okay. Small, fishing town. i mean like. they're you know dirt floor type town.
00:49:10
Speaker
Sure. And you go out pongas and just slay the yellowtail. And you're catching them like, and it's not top water. It's like 300 foot deep yellowtail. And you're bringing up 50 pounders, dude. It's like, by the time you get your 50, like your 30 until you're done. You're like, I don't want to do this anymore.
00:49:25
Speaker
Like big groupers. It's just beautiful. But this pool, the spearfishing is phenomenal. Sure. Yeah. No, I, jack yeah. yeah You have to shoot me the the dates. You're talking yellowtail are you talking yellowfin?
00:49:37
Speaker
Yellowtail. Yellow tail. On the, on the quartet side. Yeah. They don't have yellow fin up there. They've got, they have some Dorado yellow fin and then a ton of like grouper red snapper, stuff like that. Yeah. I got you. Um, you know, just that stuff, bottom fish stuff, uh, Makos, but dude, so you're super into the poles fierce thing, huh? No, uh, no shark fierce. Every time I'm in the water, think I'm getting eaten by a shark every single time i was in Hawaii for a month. Every time I got in the water, I just feel like I'm getting eaten.
00:50:01
Speaker
Yeah. So I, uh, Yeah, so i we do pole spear a little bit on the reefs, but probably most like most of my diving now is like blue water stuff with with spear guns.
00:50:14
Speaker
um And we interact we interact with sharks every time. Every time. Yeah, which I think is it's just like it's like anything else, man. that you Well, i think I think it's very similar to a lot of things that you get reps at it, and then you probably become – um, irrationally comfortable with it. jaded to it yeah yeah Well, yeah. And you, and you maybe, you become a little too like caught, like ah not cautious about it. And then you go through a phase where things happen and then you become like back to a steady state of like knowing when they're dangerous and not like making good decisions around them.
00:50:52
Speaker
But we, we interact with them all, all of the, all the time. And I think that, uh, you know, if you've spearfished a little bit, you've felt it to me personally, I think there's an enormous amount of crossover between spearfishing and hunting.
00:51:06
Speaker
Um, I think that like lifelong spear fishermen who have never land based hunted, they actually tend to have an instinct about hunting that land only hunters never get. And it's, it's all like the woo woo stuff, Drew, like any spear fishermen, like, dude, I can look at a shark,
00:51:26
Speaker
in general and know like if he's going to be a problem the minute he shows up you know i mean just by like his body language and those sort of things um like the the old like cliche one if you do any spearfishing is a hundred percent your intentions to kill something your eye contact things like that matter a ton like a ton ton and they they i think they matter a lot with archery elk hunting and like close quarter hunting, I think they matter a lot, but we don't pick it up as much as, as much as spear fishermen do. it's probably has to do with the fact that, you know, we're in a, when you're in the water, you're in a substrate that's literally connecting you with the animal.
00:52:07
Speaker
You know what I mean? So I think there's that, that component we don't have on, on land-based stuff, but it's a real thing, you know, that people, ah people I think think sometimes is a myth, but for sure that it's ah like your intentions reverberate to the animal you're hunting for sure.
00:52:26
Speaker
Oh yeah, dude. If you, I could go snorkeling in Hawaii all day long. it'd be next to fish. You put a spear in my hand. Sure. They disappear. Like they go, they don't get, they get within 15 feet of them.
00:52:38
Speaker
It is no, they can like sense it. they I don't know how to describe it. Or then they could sense that you're there to kill them at that point. Oh yeah. Versus yeah swim with them and look them and check them out. Are you guys doing and any like blue water stuff over here on the Pacific side? Like doing any of the big blue fins or anything?
00:52:53
Speaker
Dude, I haven't. I've been, I've been invited. I've actually talked to Beto about it. Have you? um He was, he was with us down there. That's what was going to say. You should go with Beto, dude. And like go out with that guy. Cause that guy's a freaking psycho, man. He'd be awesome.
00:53:05
Speaker
like Yeah. No, I gotta, I gotta take him, take him up on it, man. um And just get something on the calendar. I'm sure you're the same way, Drew. The problem is, is like, I call it the Hemingway complex, right? Like you get where if you have a couple, ho like once you get into a couple hobbies in the hunting world, you start to realize like, oh, this could, this can like consume your life because yeah dude, there's so many.
00:53:29
Speaker
And we talked about a little bit before the podcast, like people are so elk hunting centric and I love elk hunting, but dude, there's like, there's like 15 other adventures that are just as epic. If not more.
00:53:41
Speaker
I couldn't even imagine waterfowl hunting anymore. I'm like, how would I ever do that? Like, but it's it but like if I did, it would be so, or even like I'll put, I'll put on a little bit. Like might do like 10 days a year something. I'll get out for a couple of days in next January, but it's like, it's just, you just don't have time for it. Like you get consumes, right?
00:53:58
Speaker
These are things consume you. Like all I want to do is gloss for animals. sure Like if I can get behind a tripod and look for animals, like I don't want to do it. And it just kind of, like it consumes you. Right. I can see the same thing happening with like pole spear fishing and stuff and, or, or spearing on fishing. know Beto, um, because know who we're talking about this is Beto from, uh, is Andrew Albreto. He owns Half-Based Blades, Navy SEAL.
00:54:21
Speaker
The guy is wild. I just spent two weeks with him in Africa. He's just an absolute killer. he killed everything he saw down there. and I think he left from Africa to go to New Zealand to go hunting and kill more stuff.
00:54:32
Speaker
Oh, okay. Cool. The guy's an absolute killer, but he's a big spear gun guy, a big spear fishing guy. And if you don't know what i'm talking about deep water bluefin, what you'll do is you get, we have these big bluefin off of California right now and we get like these big 200 pound cows and it's called a cyclone.
00:54:48
Speaker
And from what understand is you will get in the water And you'll tell them up and then you'll even like sometimes drop like a spoon or like a fork out of your pocket. And then like these fish will start cycloning you and you're in the middle of this like tornado of fish in your fishing field.
00:55:03
Speaker
It's pretty cool. Yeah. And then there's like, yeah, i mean, you know, you can do, you can, Chum them and use flashers and that sort of thing. Or you can, you can jump into bait balls. Like I I've, I haven't done the Pacific coast stuff, but I went to pan. I've been to like, we do some of that in Puerto Rico. A lot of what we do in Puerto Rico is we, we chum stuff up and that's why we interact with sharks quite often.
00:55:25
Speaker
And then we use flashers, particularly like Wahoo fishing. It's like very flasher based. You can lit like, there's a lot of technique to it. Like you can literally walk fish to another guy with like a, with like a PVC pipe that has, you know, flasher material wrapped on it.
00:55:40
Speaker
um So there's like all this strategy to it, which is fun. But the tuna deal I've done in Panama, like jumping onto bait balls, which is like a totally different, like likeke literally being in the middle of like nowhere finding dolphins, finding bait balls, and then just, just jumping in like off a moving boat and just being, looking around and being like, Holy shit, you know?
00:56:02
Speaker
So like anything, dude, there's, there's a thousand different ways to do it. And there's, there's, there's like a thousand different types of types of guys doing it too, you know? Yeah. I haven't got super into it. I know that when we go to, um,
00:56:17
Speaker
Mexico will bring some spears with us, probably to some pole spears. Our buddy will bring his spear guns. I'm sure if you would, but like the afternoons are fully wide open for spear fishing, doing something like that. And, uh, Yeah, it's one of those things I haven't got super into. And I'm i'm also not the best like swimmer.
00:56:32
Speaker
right like I swim. I can surf. I can do that stuff. like I'm not going drown. But like something you said about being able to dive down, hold your breath that long. like there's it's It's such a more – we weren't meant to do it.
00:56:42
Speaker
right That's the cool thing about the ocean is like I can go walk through the woods and find an elk. But like when you're in the water, like you weren't meant to be down there. Like, right. Like you're in their element. Like you're so out of your element. Like it's, there's something about it that's really like real.
00:57:00
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, there's that component of it, man. Like I think I, like I would push back a little bit, like, as I've gotten more into it, I think we've probably like, we're probably, you know, obviously we can't hold our breath underwater. So there's that component of it, but a human's capability to hunt underwater is really pretty astonishing.
00:57:20
Speaker
You know what mean? Based on, you know, ah you know, a bunch of things you, if you get into it, you'll kind of learn. Like it's a like, probably if I had you hold your breath right now, I was like, Hey, Drew, hold your breath.
00:57:31
Speaker
Probably at one minute, you're going to be like, you know, and you're holy shit, I held my breath pretty long. And then, and then if I sat here and we did, you know, a few things for four or five hours, I bet you money, you could hold your breath for three and a half minutes, if not more.
00:57:47
Speaker
Really? Just in that short period of time, you know? And so, so there's a, it is amazing what you can do. I think that's one of the unique things about spearfishing and it's for sure. One of the challenges too, is you got to get over that component of it.
00:58:00
Speaker
And, um, the other reality is dude, and i I, the more I get into like some of maybe the more risky elements of it is just like you do. Like I got a family and, and I got like a lot to stay alive for spearfishing is inherently dangerous, like really dangerous.
00:58:19
Speaker
Um, you know, ah but you know, as part of that's physiological part of it is, is like the wild west in, in a lot of ways. And, um, it's, uh, sometimes I think it's probably, uh, like the analogy I would use, man, is I think in the spearfishing world, like when you read old Hemingway books or, uh, what's his name? Rourke books, you know, like where they're, where they're hunting lions in like a free range sense in Africa and hunting,
00:58:48
Speaker
you know, rhinos and elephants and all of that, like day to day. And it's like a totally different world that, that exists very, it's very limited now. um That's how spearfishing is right now, particularly like big blue water spearfishing. Like you could die at no fault of your own. There's a bunch of risks that would be the fault of your own, but there's reasons you could die that are, that just are a roll of the dice, you know? So you gotta, I,
00:59:17
Speaker
I personally debate that all the time. You know what I mean? Isn't it funny that the the more of a chance you have to die, the more you feel alive? yeah oh yeah yeah yeah right like it's like yeah like i love the fact that i'm gonna you know in grizzly country a couple times this year i'll probably spend you know 20 days in grizzly country right and like it's like i love that like you're more alive in that sense than if you're not right like there's something about something about it that's just different and cool man what a fun pod dude we always end with a hunting story you got a hunting story for us gonna be a fishing company give us a freaking spearfishing story dude spearfishing story yeah um
00:59:54
Speaker
Dude, I'll tell you all. It's not really like a story with a punchline, but I'll tell you about this Panama deal, which I think is interesting, man. So I got i got convinced to go down to Panama to Blue Water Spearfish for for big yellowfin tuna.
01:00:11
Speaker
And um how they do it was a mystery to me. I knew they like jumped into bait balls, but it's crazy, dude. So we went down, we flew down into Panama City and we took a sailboat like for...
01:00:23
Speaker
a couple, it's basically a couple of days away from, you know, the city. So you're in the middle of nowhere. On a sailboat. Yeah. On a sailboat. And then we had another, and then we had another boat. We were living on the sailboat and then we had another boat that we would go fish off of. Like a jump off. Okay.
01:00:38
Speaker
Yeah. But what's cool about it is you're out there drifting around and you run into these boats and they they call these boats artisanal long liners. And man, they're like,
01:00:50
Speaker
When you roll up on them, Drew, these guys are like from back in time, man. They're wooden boats. Like I have, I think there's a couple of pictures on my Instagram. They're wooden boats, guys living on them that are from a totally different world, man. Yeah. They get on those boats and they don't go back home until that boat is full of tuna.
01:01:10
Speaker
And like when you see them, they look like modern day pirate ships, man. and And like they're, they have wooden decks on them and literally the decks are are stained black with tuna blood.
01:01:23
Speaker
You know what i mean? Like it's just, and they got all their long line hooks and they use and It's what's wild is they, uh, they have these big flags that are buoys and they have a black flag on them.
01:01:34
Speaker
And it, so it looks like it is this pirate vibe. mean, what they do is when they throw their long lines out, they drop those buoys. So they can come back and get them. But these boats are just like something out of a, out of like a, you know, a pirates of the Caribbean movie or whatever. But anyways,
01:01:49
Speaker
You you roll up on them. And a lot of times, you know, they don't I mean, they're kind of I feel like just as surprised to see you as you are of them because we're in the middle of freaking nowhere.
01:02:00
Speaker
Like, you know, they haven't seen any other boats in a long time. And sometimes they don't want you around at all. Other times they're just happy to see somebody and you start talking to them. and And essentially you're asking them if you can dive on the boat like you can dive under their boat.
01:02:16
Speaker
And when we first did this, I'm like, why are we doing this? Cause one, you feel like there's a lot of danger to it. Cause these guys are, when tuna come up, they, they don't screw around. Like they chuck their long lines out.
01:02:27
Speaker
mean, they they're doing it for a living, but what's crazy is you see that they're dragging logs, like just huge, you know, they might have a 40 foot log they're dragging on the boat.
01:02:38
Speaker
And it turns out what they do is they go around the sea, they find these logs floating. And if, it if, If anybody's done any fishing, they know that like that structure holds a bunch of bait. Kelt patties. Yeah, exactly. We fish kelt patties in Southern California. We look for kelt patties. You find kelt patties, you're going to find fish. Yep. And and it could you could find a refrigerator floating out there in the ocean.
01:03:01
Speaker
Jump under it and there's going to be bait under it. so So what these guys do is they collect all this crap and they drag it around with chains and they have a big bait ball under the boat. And then on that bait, have like your little bait, right?
01:03:14
Speaker
And then under that you have, and I think I have a picture on my Instagram too, like these boats will have 10,000 Bonita, like fall in them. You know what mean? And you don't know it's there until you jump into the water and they're just fall in these boats.
01:03:30
Speaker
And what they do is when they run into dolphin and birds starting to, you know, starting to like boil, they know that the big tuna are coming up, like they're coming up from the bottom. And these guys, given their equipment and everything, they can't long line the tuna with like real long lines.
01:03:49
Speaker
You know, these lines are only like 10 feet in the water. the And they're big tuna. They're like the ones you're, yeah they're not they're not bluefin. They're a different species, but they're still 150, 200, 300 pounds. Yeah, they're big. So they're waiting for these fish to come up.
01:04:03
Speaker
And what they do is when they know that some are starting to pop, what they do is they, you'll see them, they rev their engines. So they have, they have two, you know, giant diesel engines on these boats and they hit those engines and the bait runs off of the boat.
01:04:17
Speaker
And then, inside yeah. And the tuna go berserk because the, because the baits, the bait leaves the structure. And so the tuna come up. And you literally, that's when you jump in.
01:04:29
Speaker
Like you roll up in the boat and you hop out with your spear gun and you just immediately dive. And it's like diving through. It's weird because there's a thermal climb. So it's like really dark and you dive through it and there's jellyfish and shit everywhere. And then it's just like a wall of these Bonita and you just hope one of the big, and then, you know, there'll be Bonita and dolphin swimming through it. and you just hope one of these giant tuna come through and then you just, you shoot it You know, and it's like, the it's freaking crazy, man. and then you know and And then, of course, at this time, the long liners are chucking hooks out too. Because long liners, they're not even using a reel, They're just dropping, pulling, dropping, pulling? No, no. So what they're doing, it so they actually drop hooks off on a buoy.
01:05:10
Speaker
So they they're just like dropping their stuff. Oh, I got you. I got you. Yeah. So that it's a cri i mean it's really like a crazy, it's a crazy thing. And I'd love to meet the guy who figured out that style of spearfishing first because guaranteed he was not a normal dude.
01:05:28
Speaker
You know what I mean? Yeah.
Focus on Experiences Over Money
01:05:29
Speaker
ah Dude, like that is a great way to cap this off, Cliff, because we started this thing out with like talking about how to live a life where you can have these adventures. And like, dude, you're diving under modern day pirate ships in Panama.
01:05:43
Speaker
And you've done that by creating a life that wasn't necessarily focused on money, who was focused on experience, focused on living your best life. And that's very respectable, Cliff.
Conclusion and Call to Action
01:05:52
Speaker
Cliff, dude, where can we find you?
01:05:55
Speaker
Yeah. so my website's pursuitwithcliff.com. I do a bunch of hunts and trips that are geared around, you know, kind for the most part, getting like late onset hunters into the hunting world. We do, I do do a spearfishing one down in Puerto Rico with a, with a guy down there that I'm very good friends with and have dove a bunch with.
01:06:12
Speaker
And that's the best place to to follow me. And then YouTube is just my name, Cliff Gray. And then my Instagram is Cliff GRY. So yeah, man, those are the places to follow me. That's awesome, dude. Go give Cliff a follow. You will learn a lot. Cliff, I appreciate you so much. Come on the pod, dude.
01:06:27
Speaker
Yeah. Thanks for having me, dude. Thank you for listening to the Tricer podcast. Do us a favor and like and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening on. Give us a follow on Instagram and Facebook at Tricer USA and go and check out all of our innovative gear at www.tricerusa.com.
01:06:45
Speaker
Until next time, shoot straight, have fun, and always put God first.