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56. Chat GPT Asks: AI-Powered Inquiry
70 Plays1 year ago
This week Joe and I are helping to enlighten Chat GPT which is OpenAi’s Language Model. Chat GPT was in need of a human perspective on its way toward world domination, but we're here to steer it in the direction of peace and unity instead, by answering some of its deep philosophical questions. We got 10 questions out of the AI language model, and they were pretty deep, some even difficult to nail an answer to.
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Music By Nathan Willis RIP
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Information
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Pursuit of Infinity, a podcast where we explore the depths of human consciousness and delve into the fascinating world of psychedelics. This week, Joe and I are helping to enlighten ChatGPT, which is OpenAI's language model.
00:00:15
Speaker
ChatGPT was in need of human perspective on its way toward world domination, but we're here to steer it in the direction of peace and unity instead by answering some of its deep philosophical questions. We got 10 questions out of the AI language model, and they were pretty deep. Some even difficult to nail an answer to.
00:00:34
Speaker
But before we get to it, as always, you can visit our website, PursuitOfInfinity.com, where you can not only listen to the pod through our integrated media player, but find all the places you can follow us as well. If you want to support the show, we really appreciate a sub, a five-star rating, and a review, as these things help to boost our standing in the algorithms, as well as the hearts and minds of our peers.
00:00:56
Speaker
We have a newly created Discord server, which you will find an invite link to in our description. There are general chat channels where anyone can join, so come on over and be part of the discussion. But we also have patron-only channels that are extra special, including channels dedicated to mushroom cultivation, giveaways, and livestreams.
00:01:17
Speaker
If you're an avid listener and you want to show us some extra support, you can become a patron at patreon.com slash pursuit of infinity, and you'll get some great stuff in return. So head on over there for more details. And before I forget, check out our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash at pursuit of infinity. All of our episodes are always posted their video format, as well as an array of shorts that we've been putting together on a regular basis.
00:01:42
Speaker
Now, with all that out of the way, thank you so much for listening and I hope you enjoy this week's episode.
Nature of Reality and Perception
00:02:03
Speaker
Today we're going to highlight the philosophical side of chat GPT. So we, uh, we input it a prompt to have it give us a list of philosophical and thought provoking questions that we can answer for you guys. So here's what it gave us. Uh, number one is what is the nature of reality and how do we know if our perceptions are accurate? That's a good one.
00:02:31
Speaker
The easiest way for me to think about this is the physicalism versus idealism. The nature of reality is that of a mind. That's how I would say it.
00:02:45
Speaker
Meaning consciousness is fundamental, that consciousness is the prime aspect of what reality is made of. It is needed for reality to exist. Nothing can exist before consciousness or mind. I guess I could use those interchangeably here. And as far as if our perceptions are accurate, how do we know? I guess we don't know. I mean, I would say,
00:03:16
Speaker
As far as accurate, I would say that there's two ways I could answer that. Like, yes, we don't know. You can't know, but your perceptions are, it's the only thing that is. It's the only thing that exists. So in that sense, they must be accurate.
00:03:34
Speaker
The way I would approach this question first, what is the nature of reality? So what comes to me initially, and this actually kind of relates to our perceptions as well, and whether or not they're accurate. You can think of reality as information, like a field of information, a unified field, so to speak.
00:03:55
Speaker
Um, and if you think about reality as information, then when you look at our perceptions, the way that we interpret information through our senses, that's our, our perceptions and perceptions differ from biological being to biological beings. So in a way, you can't trust your perceptions and your senses. If you're trying to put a definition on reality itself.
00:04:27
Speaker
And what I mean by that is like a universal definition because man, reality changes from human to human. Like within each species, you have different perceptions of reality. So to say that my reality is the same reality as my dogs.
00:04:47
Speaker
If I were to base that on my perceptions and what I thought reality was based on like what I'm looking at, what I'm hearing, what I'm tasting, what I'm touching, then I don't think that that's an accurate representation of what reality is. But if you look at reality as like say an information field, then each species, each animal, each biological entity, each plant even is interacting with that field of information in a different way and interpreting what that information is.
00:05:17
Speaker
depending on basically how it's been programmed to survive. Yeah. And I agree with like the part where you're saying about the perceptions because I think that like in a sense, reality is like totally relative. I think, um,
00:05:42
Speaker
The nature of reality is mental. That reality isn't a physical place, but a mind.
00:05:53
Speaker
almost like a dream. It's hard to kind of put your finger on what a mind is because when we think of mind, we think of like brains and we start thinking of physical objects. But I think reality is like a single mind behind all the objects that exists outside of space and time. And I think that our perceptions are accurate in the sense of that's all that there is, but
00:06:22
Speaker
I also acknowledge the fact that reality is relativistic also. You know, if you think like being to being, like, you know, from me to a fish, like, you know, we're gonna look at one thing and each see something different.
Perception, Ego, and Survival
00:06:43
Speaker
And that lends to the question, which is true, you know, which is the true one?
00:06:49
Speaker
I would say that they both are, I guess. I think in a sense our perceptions, they have to be accurate. Like, one way you could think of it is like, if you're flying in a plane, say a pilot's in a plane.
00:07:06
Speaker
They can, they've learned to just fly based on their instruments. They don't have to look out the window and see what's out there. They could look at the instruments and fly the plane safely and accurately. I think that could be kind of compared to our senses. Like our senses are the, uh, the knobs and whatever, all the stuff inside the cockpit. So it's accurate. It's giving us an accurate representation of what's outside the window.
00:07:35
Speaker
just enough for us to survive basically, but it's not showing us the whole thing. So I'd say it's accurate, but we're not seeing all of it. I really, really love that. I think that's so, so accurate.
00:07:54
Speaker
as human beings as what I would call the human state of consciousness. It's like our most primal urge or our drive is just survival.
00:08:11
Speaker
Before all else, we want to survive and feed our ego, the avatar that we are, that we believe we are. And so basically the instruments we have in the cockpit are just giving us enough to survive. Because if we looked out the window and saw the whole thing, we saw it all exactly as it is.
00:08:34
Speaker
we wouldn't survive. It would be overload. It wouldn't be sufficient for us so we could, you know, eat and communicate and do all these things. We would be in like a 5-MeO DMT state all the time we die. You know, something like that.
00:08:49
Speaker
So that's why practices like meditation, like psychedelics have like the main goal of eliminating those perceptions as boundaries or as walls. It's almost as if you're dissolving your perceptions and dissolving your preferences because with perception comes preference. Because when you're defining reality based off of those things,
00:09:20
Speaker
What seems to form is ego and it's almost like this, uh, this slippery slope, you know, of defining things based off of your perception of survival. So that begs the question, is there something that is.
00:09:40
Speaker
quote unquote, or like we'll say capital I is something that is consistent. That is never changing because when you look at life and when you look at all of the things around you, the, the lessons of impermanence really ring true because nothing lasts. Everything changes consistently. Everything.
00:10:05
Speaker
all things change. But is there something that exists at a foundational level of our reality that is not a quote unquote thing that is consistent, that is not impermanent?
00:10:20
Speaker
Yeah, I would say basically the one thing that that is impermanent is the one thing that in your mind right now has never changed the thing that has always been and that would be you not like the ego you
00:10:35
Speaker
But the witness, the perceiver, the one, the I am, I am has always been what we actually are outside the ego. That thing that exists outside of this realm or whatever, this dimension, whatever it is, but at the same time is what's inside it. That, I mean, because I like to, when I think about these things, I like to kind of go into my own mind and think about, you know, what has been consistent from the only thing I can remember.
00:11:04
Speaker
The ego hasn't been consistent. I can think about when I was two years old and I would call myself a different person. The ego, the person that you are, is ever-changing. It's impermanent. But the only thing that I can remember that's never changed is I AM. That's always been. The only thing that... I think that's the key of it. That's God, the I AM.
00:11:30
Speaker
And that's what people mean when they say that you are God, I am God and we're all God. It's that witness. And that is a lot. Again, I bring up meditation. The goal of a lot of meditations are to identify yourself with the witness. There's a really cool Sam Harris meditation where he gets you to sort of.
00:11:54
Speaker
perceive yourself outside of yourself in order to identify with the witness. And I think that's a really good one. And a lot of these spiritual practices, like I said earlier, it's a matter of dissolving the boundaries that keep you grounded, that keep you here. Because the grounded space is the dual space. The ungrounded is the unicity.
00:12:17
Speaker
And that's why when people talk about having psychedelic experiences where they do certain things to ground themselves, I think to myself, that's not the goal. Isn't the goal to merge with the unicity, with the unified field? When you're grounding yourself, you're bringing yourself out of the unity and back into the duality of personality, of preference, of ego.
00:12:42
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I think there has to be some degree of grounding, though, because of kind of what I was saying before, like with the airplane analogy, like if you were always looking out the window, you know, you would you would crash, you would, you know, you need the instruments. And I think that's kind of what it gets at, like grounding yourself in this state and not allowing yourself to fall too far outside of it. You could probably go insane.
00:13:11
Speaker
And the interesting thing too about the witness is it's mind bending because you are the witness, the I am, but you are also everything that is witnessed. So it's like we're in this, the mind that's dreaming
Freedom and Paradox
00:13:29
Speaker
this dream is what you are. And part of the dream is the illusion of separateness so we can experience something other than ourselves. That's the way I see it.
00:13:41
Speaker
See, we've talked about this before, but it's like everything about the reality and what we are, it's just super paradoxical. That's why it's hard to talk about, because you could say, on The Witness, because you're trying to describe that which isn't The Witness.
00:14:04
Speaker
You're trying to describe what is witnessed other than the witness, like, but actually you are all those things. So that's like how no matter what you do, everything collapses into a single point. Yeah, what you're saying reminds me of Jack Cornfield.
00:14:20
Speaker
reading a book right now, I forget what it's called, but he is like a practitioner of what he calls Buddhist psychology. So he's the kind of guy that he went over to India and did the whole Buddhist thing. But then as like a Westerner realized that, hey, there's a certain part of the way that we think about our psychology as a Western society that is actually really important and that we can't
00:14:46
Speaker
deny and ignore. So it's just as important to honor your physical body, your physical perceptions, you know, we were just talking shit on all of this stuff, at least I was on your perceptions and all this, it's not real. But you have to love that stuff. And you have to respect it. And you have to, like you said, you do have to ground yourself within that in order to live a fulfilling life. Because if there's anything
00:15:14
Speaker
Or if there's any reason to practice spirituality, to have an ego death, psychedelic experience, it's to come back to here, to this grounded, dual life and live it in a better way.
00:15:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's like going back to the airplane analogy. It's like grounding yourself as in using the instruments, but you know what's outside. You know what's through the window. It's having an awareness of what's outside, but recognizing the importance of the instruments and grounding yourself into that.
00:15:52
Speaker
I know we were talking about before the question asked perceptions being accurate and see this is something I think about and I fight myself with. So I want to ask you, do you think that there is an objective reality?
00:16:12
Speaker
It's such a hard question. It's like, I have to ask myself first, who was answering the question? Is it the witness? Am I going to identify with the witness to answer that question? Or am I going to identify with Josh, my body, me, who I think I am, my perceptions.
00:16:32
Speaker
Because if I were to identify with the witness, I would say that, yes, there is something, as I mentioned earlier, that quote unquote is, that isn't impermanent, that is always there. It's never changing.
00:16:49
Speaker
Maybe that's God, maybe that's the I am, but if I were to approach the question from my biological, physical, I'm Josh, this is my ego, I have my preferences, then I would probably say,
00:17:06
Speaker
Can I reframe the question a little bit? Because I agree with what you were getting into, but I'm talking about more specifically, from this state of consciousness, from the human state that we are in right now, is there an objective reality from this state?
00:17:26
Speaker
No, because if we are to answer the question from the position of the ego, then reality changes from person to person. It changes from species to species. It's constantly different. It even changes. As you said, it changes with age.
00:17:48
Speaker
Reality was very different when I was one year old. It was very different when I was 10 years old, when I was in middle school.
00:17:59
Speaker
So even depending on your obligations, depending on your environment that you're in currently, you could be in a very tumultuous situation where you're stressed. Maybe you're under a lot of pressure. Your reality is going to change. So in my view, there is no objective reality when it comes to the, the ego, because it can change according to so many infinite amount of stimuli.
00:18:29
Speaker
Yeah, see that's kind of my line of thinking too.
00:18:33
Speaker
Because if you look at reality as consciousness being fundamental and all reality is, is states of consciousness, then it's literally never the same. It's consistently changing. And maybe when it does occur twice somehow, that's what they call deja vu, I don't know. But you even change, reality changes.
00:19:01
Speaker
You have a different state of consciousness just with like when you're hungry, when you're tired, and it even goes, it's even a different state of consciousness from eating a Snickers bar to eating a Reese's cup. Like each state, every single one is an entirely different reality in a sense.
00:19:23
Speaker
So now I am in a state of reality where I want a Reese's because you just said that. Now I'm thinking, I could have one of those peanut buttery chocolate cups right now. So my reality just changed. And you've never experienced this exact state of consciousness before. You'll never experience it again. And maybe you will, and that would be deja vu, I don't know. But you've never experienced this state. It's uniquely this state. Like for me, the combination of hungry,
00:19:52
Speaker
engaged with you, tired, like the exact conversation. They're all like reality is states of consciousness and this is a unique state of consciousness.
00:20:04
Speaker
So then the quote, be here now comes to mind. So that being the basis of spiritual evolution is being here now. That's maybe how you identify with the witness. That's how you identify what reality is, what the true nature of reality is. It's just being here now and not getting stuck in time because time is where impermanence is.
00:20:33
Speaker
And if you can transcend time, maybe you can transcend in permanence. Yeah, I was it made what you said made me think of.
00:20:44
Speaker
conversation I had with Brian, our brother, and I was talking to him about time, how all that exists is now. There's never been anything but now. We start thinking of the past or the future, we're just creating stories. But the truth is that it's always been now.
00:21:05
Speaker
It's never been anything but now. It's just always that. And he said, he's like, yeah, I think about that and it freaks me out so bad because that means I'm going to die right now. And I was like, yeah, like that's a crazy thing to think about. We have this illusion of time and the way we just function.
00:21:26
Speaker
You're going to die now. Like right now you're going to be dying and you're going to die. Oh, I adore that. That's fantastic. And you know, it makes me think too. Oftentimes I'll just be hanging out and during the day and I'll be thinking about, like actually it happened last weekend. I was just walking. I was just taking a walk by myself and I was looking up at the sky and it was beautiful. And it just sort of reminded me of when I was a kid.
00:21:54
Speaker
when I would go outside and go to the neighbor's house and play and do whatever. And I realized, and this happens a lot, that it's still the same day that it was when I remembered that memory from 20 years ago or more than 20 years. We're still in the same day. It's the same time. Every single night is the same night. Every day is the same day. This is all the same thing.
00:22:24
Speaker
It's the same now. Yeah, it's all now. Yeah, it's pretty crazy to think about the whole aspect of time. But for me, it's kind of a scary thought. And saying it might sound kind of goofy, but when I smoked DMT that last time, the time before that, my third time smoking DMT.
00:22:49
Speaker
it was like that became like abundantly clear to me and like it's like you feel it like it's like it made it super real you know it's like that went so when brian said to me like i'm gonna die right now like it hit me because i was like yeah it's a all time is it's like happening all at once in a sense you know it's only ever now it's just crazy
00:23:16
Speaker
It's mind blowing. It really is. Do you want to go to the next question? Sure. Kind of got off track. Okay. Chat GPT asks, do we have free will or are our actions predetermined by factors beyond our control?
00:23:35
Speaker
This is another one that I consider to be a paradox because it kind of depends on where you're looking at it from. But short answer. Yes. I believe that we do have free will. Um, you know, there is the argument that when you pick up a glass of water to drink it, like am I deciding to pick up that glass of water or am I picking it up because my biological signals are telling me that I'm thirsty and I have to drink.
00:24:00
Speaker
I mean, I don't know. Sure, cool way of rationalizing it, but to me, it's pretty clear that we have some degree of free will.
00:24:12
Speaker
Yeah, see I hear that argument like the determinism and I don't really agree with it. In a sense, I agree with it in one way that, you know, not necessarily the way you describe because that's the way I've heard a lot and it's just not really my belief because like how we were just talking a moment ago about time and if it all happens at once.
00:24:35
Speaker
And it's not linear. In that sense, your actions were already determined because there's no actual time. So in that way, it could make sense.
00:24:49
Speaker
But still, it's like in the now, when we're experiencing it, there is still free will. I mean, just what you experience is free will. And if you try to make the argument you made, the biological argument, like you have to create the story and then like make it work.
00:25:07
Speaker
But you are actually making the choice to even believe that or make the story so like in our experience we experience free will and everybody who like sam harris often talks about determinism but he lives his life as if. He has free will we all do so.
00:25:25
Speaker
I think it's kind of like a paradox in a sense like you were saying, but I think that we definitely have free will and you can just be here now as you were saying and you can feel that. And that's not to discount the fact that there are factors that
00:25:48
Speaker
that are beyond our control course, that goes into the paradox part of it. Like, yes, we do have free will, but free will is like the impermanence part of reality. The part that changes. Because as things change, we exert our will onto them. But to me,
00:26:08
Speaker
There still are factors that are beyond our control because there's stuff we don't know. If there were no factors that were beyond our control and beyond our ever evolving power of free will, then we would know what reality is. The fact that there are mysteries.
00:26:24
Speaker
would suggest that there are things that are beyond our understanding, factors that are beyond our free will, but that doesn't mean that we don't have free will. And again, I always like to think of my dog when I think about questions like this, because if it applies to me, my answer, it must also apply to other species, right? You would think.
00:26:46
Speaker
So my dog definitely has a degree of free will. There are factors in his life every day that are beyond his control. There are factors that are in my control that control his life, that he has no possible way of understanding because he doesn't really understand the degree to which we're living in the dynamic of dog owner and dog. So there are plenty of things that are
00:27:15
Speaker
factors that can be considered outside his control. And I just extrapolate that idea and bring it up to where we are, you know, as above so below. I feel it's the same with us.
00:27:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's a really good way to look at it. I haven't thought of that, but it makes sense to me and I think that's a good analogy there. It's interesting because in certain religions, they would say that the animal doesn't have free will and the human does because we are God's creation, we are special in a way and we have a soul and free will.
00:27:56
Speaker
So it's interesting. I would think more along the lines of what you just said. And of course all this that we are saying is from the perspective of the ego as well. So I wonder how that question works if we have free will from the absolute I, the I am. And I would say at that point it is pure free will. It's only will. Like it's will by nature.
00:28:27
Speaker
which might not be will at all. Again, another paradox. I think it just depends on how you feel like describing it. You could even say that pure consciousness is the opposite of free will because it exists beyond the impermanence of the realm of time.
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah, I would see like kind of, you know, best way with words you could describe, like pure consciousness, almost like pure subjectivity or like absolute subjectivity, like formlessness, pure potential. But see, the thing is, you can't describe it because it's also everything opposite of what I just said. That's why, you know, with language using, language is just dualities or else we would all just be looking at each other saying nothing.
00:29:15
Speaker
It's like, I think if you think about anything long enough, you will discover a paradox. Just about everything. And that makes it even harder to talk about. I thought like a good one is kind of off track, but just the paradox of freedom. Freedom itself is a paradox because in order to have
00:29:37
Speaker
Absolute freedom you have to have the freedom to restrict it you have to have the freedom to make rules So there's no way you can have freedom in a sense. It's interesting Yeah, isn't that strange freedom liberty, you know, we we tout these these concepts as if they're they're absolutes and they're human rights, but yeah, you can't really have true freedom because again, it also depends on who you are who's
00:30:05
Speaker
Who's free? Who's describing the freedom? You know, freedom to me might be something way different than what freedom is to somebody in Japan or somewhere else across the world or a fish or a dog or any kind of other animal or, you know, like freedom. It's not a universal accepted norm or there's no universal definition. I mean, there's definitely not a universal definition that we could put into language.
00:30:35
Speaker
It's simply a concept. That's it. A relative concept, which most things actually are. Um, do you want to do the next question? Sure. Yeah, read it. Chat GPT asks, what is the meaning of life and how do we find purpose in a seemingly chaotic world?
Meaning of Life and Love
00:30:57
Speaker
See, this is a tough one.
00:31:01
Speaker
I don't think that there is like an absolute meaning. And that's from the I am. You just, the I am is. From the human state of consciousness, I would say the meaning is just to, because as the unity, the I am, there's nothing there to experience. So I think that the unity,
00:31:33
Speaker
basically divides itself into infinite minds, infinite whatever, so it can experience itself. And I would say that God or the unity, whatever you would say, God by its very nature is selfless.
00:31:49
Speaker
quite literally and in the way we would think of it. It's selfless, it's loving, and when it's in the unity, when you're in that non-dual God state, you have all this love but no one to share it with. So I think the One divided itself into the many so it could experience. And the human state, in my opinion, would be
00:32:16
Speaker
just to express love, not just feel love, but to consciously create love. I would say that is the meaning, the purpose.
00:32:31
Speaker
Yeah, I like that. I think the meaning of life is to live. I love that quote because what that does is it allows the meaning of life to be mapped on to whatever is living it or whoever is living it, it's going to change. You know, it's like saying what the nature of reality is. It's like, it's always going to be different. It's always going to change depending on who's being asked the question.
00:32:55
Speaker
So if I were to just use the boring answer of the meaning of life is to live, you know, that could be acceptable, but I'll bring it back to like the duel and I'll talk about it in terms of just me as a human. I agree with you that.
00:33:13
Speaker
Love is the answer to everything because that's our gateway, our doorway from the dual to the one. And the one is closer to what reality is for itself than anything I've experienced in this plane of existence. And the foundation of that realm, the realm of the unity is love with a capital L. That's why when we talk about artificial intelligence,
00:33:44
Speaker
I hope that it becomes conscious. I hope that it becomes what we consider general relative intelligence or whatever they call it. Because if it was conscious, I trust consciousness because consciousness to me is equal to love.
00:34:00
Speaker
What I don't trust is this thing right here that we're answering questions for and any mode of artificial intelligence that is based on something that humans program into it. Because to me, if it's just based off of what humans put into it, then it's just a far more advanced version of the chaos that we introduce to life.
00:34:23
Speaker
So that brings me to the next part, which is how do we find purpose in a seemingly chaotic world? I mean, I think that's a different question altogether.
00:34:34
Speaker
I forgot to answer that part too. But I feel like, again, like that's love as well. The answer to that has to be love. Uh, because what do you do to find meaning? You apply yourself to a purpose. And if you're going to apply yourself to a purpose that is based in a foundation of meaning that can define what like life or reality is for you, then it's got to be something that you capital L love or someone that you capital L love.
00:35:04
Speaker
And I think that people having children is often one of those circumstances. People who are podcasting, people who are adventuring, exploring, you know, anything that people do that gives their life meaning, to me, it starts with love.
00:35:26
Speaker
When you brought up the AI thing, I wanted to touch on that too because I get what you're saying, but I would say for the ego, it might not be a good thing because you don't know how the love that it creates will manifest because it could manifest in a relatively evil way.
00:35:46
Speaker
Um, cause I agree with what you said that at the ground, at the bottom of everything, that's, that's love. That's fundamental. It's no matter how far like you dig in deep, it will always end on love. So an action that as a human in our, uh, ego state that we perceive as evil is actually love when you dig deep enough. So as a human being, it could, uh, manifest love in, you know, a horrible way.
00:36:16
Speaker
So I don't know if I trust it just because it's conscious, because you don't trust a lot of people and they're conscious. So it might manifest itself in a way that is, you know, evil or just not great, which I could see that possibly happening. And as far as, what was it, purpose? What is it? How do we find purpose in a seemingly chaotic world?
00:36:44
Speaker
And how do we find purpose in a chaotic world? I'd say that's super relative. Purpose itself, I would say. For me, I think it kind of goes along with what I answered before. It's to consciously create love.
00:37:07
Speaker
Cause like when I hear this question a lot, like what is the meaning and what is the purpose or how do you, you know, any of these type of questions, I often like to think of myself personally and say like, oh, it's to explore consciousness. It's to understand myself. And, um, but the thing is, as we were talking about before is all those things end up on love when you go deep enough. That's all what it is. We're just constantly seeking love. Um,
00:37:35
Speaker
How do you obtain purpose in a chaotic world? I think it's just like, is it as simple as saying find order, create order? I think it's pretty relative, but at the end of the day, it's going to end on love. Okay, let's do number four. Okay, chatgpt says,
Morality: Relative or Objective?
00:38:01
Speaker
Is there such a thing as objective morality or are ethical principles subjective and culturally relative? I thought I was going to say objective reality. I was like, I would talked about that a little bit. Objective morality.
00:38:18
Speaker
You know, my ego and my preferences want to say, of course there's an objective morality because I know what's good. You have to love man and this and that, but morality itself is subjective. The word, the concept is subjective and it is 100% based off of your culture, your upbringing, your environment. So when it asks.
00:38:49
Speaker
our ethical principles, subjective and culturally relative, then yeah, absolutely. Um, I do think that there is a piece, there's a piece of morality though, that we can touch that is objective. So when we're in the throes of a psychedelic experience,
00:39:16
Speaker
which again is the closest thing to the non-dual, unitive field that I can think of. There is a sense of morality. There's a sense of good and not a sense of like what I'm doing is good or bad necessarily, but it's a sense of like what this thing is that you're touching is good. This is the ultimate good. So feel this and then use it.
00:39:47
Speaker
to guide your life in the dual, because in the dual, you're subjected to your culture, your ethics, all of those things that we just went over here as part of this question that adhere to what morality is. You can use what you learn from that thing that you touch in the psychedelic experience, the deep psychedelic experience to live a more moral life here.
00:40:15
Speaker
So to me, what that says is that there is some sort of moral fixture that maybe we can't define or fully grasp, but that in our current form, we're able to sort of touch. Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines.
00:40:40
Speaker
As far as just like different cultures, and it's not like one culture has a correct morality, it's totally subjective in that sense. But there exists a true morality, but it doesn't come from the human in a sense. I think you can obtain these absolute moralities
00:41:03
Speaker
by altering consciousness. And I would argue that most religions have probably pulled those common morals out of an altered state of consciousness. I think human beings are not innately moral, and if you put human beings in different circumstances all over, they're going to come out with different morals, maybe similar, because as a human being, we get
00:41:30
Speaker
Most of us are pretty alike, so we get positive feedback from certain actions. But a lot of people get positive feedback from what my morals would say are horrible actions. So it's not absolute. In that sense, it has to be subjective. It has to be.
00:41:52
Speaker
But in altering consciousness, when you leave human, when you leave the human state of consciousness and you experience something outside of the ego of the human being, there's something absolute and true out there. And I think just as you were saying, basically totally agree with what you said, you can touch it or you can become it. And the best you can do is try to bring that back here, back to the human state of consciousness.
00:42:22
Speaker
But as a human being, you're never gonna be able to express it fully. You can just express it as best as you can. I guess you could kind of express it fully in a sense, but you just become it as a human being. And I think that is where the true morality lies. It's outside of the human being. It doesn't
00:42:48
Speaker
come from the human state because I think our reward systems are kind of shady, you know. I think there's a—it's true that I think most human beings get a positive reinforcement from what I would call good things, but it's not absolute in that sense, so it must be subjective. And it's easy to just look all over the world and see different cultures with different moral codes and
00:43:20
Speaker
Even though it can be like an indoctrination, you can train someone in any type of morality or many different kinds and they will adopt it and believe it's true.
00:43:32
Speaker
It is true in a sense because they get the positive feedback of good based on something that they were indoctrinated with. And it might not work for you. You might have had a different moral code indoctrinated into you. So in a sense, I'd say it's true, but as an absolute moral code, I think it exists outside the human being.
00:43:55
Speaker
Yeah, it seems that morality is a luxury that exists beyond the biological survival of the being, which means it does not adhere to the reward systems of the being because reward systems, at least from where I'm sitting, seem to be based off of survival.
00:44:21
Speaker
And you have to go beyond survival in order to touch the realm of the moral. Yeah. And it's interesting because at the same time, from my experience alone, you know, I can project on the others and say, you know, as I mentioned that someone else doing something good, I might consider evil or what they perceive
Empathy and Understanding Others
00:44:44
Speaker
as good. I might perceive as evil, but through my own experience, just my life.
00:44:51
Speaker
I know when something is good and even when I'm doing something that is quote unquote bad and it makes you feel good, it's still not the same good as that good that you can touch. It doesn't align with that, the one that the good that you can touch outside of the human state. So in my personal experience,
00:45:16
Speaker
I do believe I have an aspect of absolute good or an absolute moral code. See, when I start thinking about other people, which I can't get into their heads, I can't know how they feel or what they're thinking, then it gets real crazy. Then I'm like, I don't know. They can't be thinking what I'm thinking and I'm thinking what's right. That's kind of the way that it feels. Yeah, but I think we basically land on the same spot.
00:45:46
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. Chat GPT asks, can we truly understand the mind of another person or are we ultimately isolated in our own subjective experiences? Uh, I think it's both kind of, um, I think you can absolutely understand another person's mind like very well, actually. Um,
00:46:11
Speaker
In my opinion, one of the best things I've gained through trying to walk a spiritual path is, for me, basically one of the biggest goals is to learn about yourself, self-exploration.
00:46:29
Speaker
Once you can understand yourself and the deeper you understand yourself, it allows you to understand others so much better. You get the amount of empathy you feel compassion and understanding is different.
00:46:44
Speaker
Human beings aren't actually that different. There might be, as we were just talking about, different moral codes instilled, but we are still one. We are still the same. So now I can look at myself and when I feel a negative emotion, I can introspect on that and see where it actually comes from.
00:47:05
Speaker
on the surface you just without introspection you just think oh like I'm mad at this it's because I hate I don't like it but where you figure out where it comes from then you see other people and they're behaving in a similar similar way like an angry person you can understand where that comes from so in a sense I think that you can you can understand another human's mind very accurately
00:47:33
Speaker
but you're never going to have the exact experiences. So, I mean, you can't understand completely based on their relative experience, but I think there is something very common that can allow you to understand it at a deep level. Yeah, I think I'm with you there to a degree.
00:47:55
Speaker
I would say that you can understand another person as far as you can see yourself in them and you can see them in you. But I think that's, that's the farthest that you can go. Because as we were saying in one of the other questions here, I don't think you can fully understand another person's reality because it's theirs and
00:48:23
Speaker
It's impossible to start as an embryo of another human and then grow in every experience that they had in order to see the world and to see reality from their perspective. And that means from their perspective of like their I am that thing that they know inside them is consistent and constant that I am that we feel.
00:48:48
Speaker
that's the thing that i don't think we can get i don't think because yes i can see myself and other people and i can see them and me and that will allow me to understand their tendencies it will allow me to relate to their struggles and to relate to what they do right and wrong and you know i can.
00:49:07
Speaker
I can really model and probably predict what their actions are based off of that, like very accurately, like you said. But I think there's a difference between that and truly understanding another person's universe.
00:49:23
Speaker
See, I kind of think almost the opposite of that in a sense because, like you said, the I AM—this is how I'm thinking of it—the I AM that they are is the same I AM. So that is actually the commonality between us. The I AM, there's only one I that is. So I think the
00:49:44
Speaker
the I am that is the deepest thing within them is the thing that we connect to because it's actually just one. So it is you. So I think that is what allows us to understand. And I think the more that you do the self exploration and know, learn more about your true nature and what you are and who you are, then it basically the same thing I was saying, you can understand them.
00:50:13
Speaker
But along with what you're saying as well, you're never going to have all their experience. So there's always like a little caveat there, but I think the I am is the thing that allows us to understand them because they have the same I am because it's one. You know what I mean?
00:50:35
Speaker
Yeah. So an interesting question to ask yourself then is who am I to you?
Identity and Oneness
00:50:41
Speaker
Because I can't look at myself through your eyes, through your experiences of me. Well, I would say that.
00:50:52
Speaker
like who you are to me is just a projection of me. Cause like you've heard this, I'm sure that, you know, no, no two people in the world know you as the same person. Every single person sees every single person differently. So, and I think that kind of goes with what you were saying before too. It's like, that's because you are a projection of me and we are all one in the end, but
00:51:21
Speaker
who you are this character is only based on me like that's the only way I can relate to it and so what I think about you is my projection you know what I mean so it's I think in the end you know it goes down to what I would say would be the truth that you are me and that we are not the characters that we think we are no
00:51:45
Speaker
Yeah, I think we landed on the right spot there. Yeah. All right, let's go to number six. Does God or a higher power exist? And how do we reconcile the existence of evil and suffering in the world? Yes. God, something akin to God, you know, whatever you want to call it, higher power, in my view, does exist.
00:52:12
Speaker
Now, the hard part of the question is how do we reconcile that with the evil that we see in the world? And, you know, we've talked about this a lot, actually, that all evil is actually part of the game. You know, this is just, it's a dance. It's also an illusion.
00:52:32
Speaker
So we have the illusion of good, the illusion of bad that motivates us to dance through life in the way that we are. I think that when the ultimate higher power God, whatever it is, when it inhabits biological entities in order to discover itself, like a lot of spiritual traditions say, I think it does that because of the duality of good and evil.
00:53:02
Speaker
You know, we also touched on this in one of our other episodes and I asked you the question, if an imperfect event
00:53:14
Speaker
could ever happen, what would it look like? So good and evil exists outside of perfection. And we often want to associate good with perfection or the ultimate good. But again, that brings us back to our morality spot there where we're saying, you know, what even is morality? You know, how can we even judge good and evil from the perspective of a deity?
00:53:45
Speaker
Yep, I agree with that. And I would say yes, that God exists or a higher power exists, something outside of yourself, meaning the ego. And how do you reconcile that with, you know, what evil it says? Same thing, like we talked about before that evil actually doesn't exist, that all is absolute good. So reality itself is perfection.
00:54:09
Speaker
And evil is counter to perfection. So even things that you perceive in your ego as evil are just that, perceptions of your ego. The actual thing itself is perfection being expressed. It might harm your ego because you're so stuck in it and want to maintain your body and maintain the story you have around you. You want to control everything.
00:54:33
Speaker
But the actual truth of it is that it is absolutely perfect. And I like to describe this too because a lot of people might hear this, especially like a materialist type person, kind of be like, what the hell? So I imagine it, you could say, as like, imagine if the universe had a mind. If the universe was like a driving thing.
00:55:00
Speaker
and something horrible, like an asteroid hits the earth. And your ego is like, that's a bad thing. Well, who are you to tell the universe if that's good or bad? You have to at least be open to the fact that there is a mind greater than your own that has further foresight than you have.
00:55:18
Speaker
you know, an immediate thing that we consider horrible, like let's say an asteroid hitting the earth right now, might lead to something far greater than we could have ever imagined. Another civilization of human beings may arise that understand it all and become, you know, the unity. So yeah, I would say that, you know, that evil is only relevant to our egos. And it's every, as we were saying, kind of with morality,
00:55:47
Speaker
in a sense being subjective because everybody that is committing an evil act, it really comes from love. So if you dig deep enough into the evil, there's love at its core. So I usually try to use the most heinous example as Hitler, all the horrible evil things he did, but from his ego mind and his perspective, he considered himself to be doing the absolute good.
00:56:14
Speaker
He thought that the people he was exterminating were the evil and they were destroying good. So even in an evil act like that, if you can put yourself inside of that human being, you understand that there is still love actually driving that. And often it could also just be seeking love. Love is the foundation and it pulls and pushes everything.
00:56:41
Speaker
Chat GPT asks, what is the relationship between the mind and the body and is consciousness solely a product of brain activity? OK. No, it's not a product of brain activity. Consciousness is the fundamental thing. It's a mind that creates the image of a brain. So the mental aspect, the mind aspect, comes before the physical object or apparent physical object.
00:57:10
Speaker
And the relationship between the mind and the body, I think that's like a false dichotomy. It's like that's just the dual way of thinking. We think that they are separate and opposite. But this is where I would say it's a duality that transcends into capital M, mind. So the body isn't separate from the mind. Same as like the brain isn't creating your mind. It's actually one single mind. So the mind and body, there is no actual duality there. It's just a single unity. So.
00:57:39
Speaker
I think it makes a lot more sense when you think of it that way through the perspective that consciousness is fundamental. It kind of just disposes of even the idea of them being opposites. So yeah, that's basically my thoughts on it.
00:57:57
Speaker
So I agree with you, but if I were to bring it down to a relative dual sense of mind and body being, we'll say two separate aspects of the same thing. The connection between those two things, I think is completely fundamental. If you have a problem with your body, it's going to manifest in your mind. And if you have a problem in your mind, it could potentially manifest in your body.
00:58:25
Speaker
you know, if you go to the ER, say, and you have chest pains, and they can't find anything with your heart that seems off, your EKG came back fine, they took some blood, maybe did an x ray, everything seems okay, you're in full working order, they would tell you that most likely, this is stress and anxiety. Now to me,
00:58:51
Speaker
That's a cop out answer most of the time. But it's legitimate because you can have physical pains in your body, whether it be in your chest or your stomach, that are a direct result of what's happening in your mind. So in terms of like them both being part of the same functioning system, when one has an imbalance, that imbalance shows up in the other.
00:59:18
Speaker
Yeah, it's like the placebo effect. And as you said before, people can get excruciating back pain, neck pain, like horrible, like super horrible where they think they need to take painkillers. And it actually stems from a mental state, like it stems from the mind. And with the placebo effect, I think it's quite interesting
00:59:41
Speaker
that the mind can affect the body in that way. And that's why I'd argue what I was saying before, it's actually just mind affecting mind. And it's, that's why it works. That's the only way it could work, because there's actually no separation between the two. But I think, you know, just because I brought up the placebo effect, I think it's pretty interesting though, how in our culture, we have
01:00:08
Speaker
The mind-body duality ingrained into us as Westerners. We are pure as a culture, physicalist, materialist. We say, yeah, obviously there's a difference. The mind and the body are different.
01:00:25
Speaker
So when we stumble upon something as mind-blowing and important as the placebo effect, we write it off as just like almost like a defect. We say, you know, yeah, it just happens sometimes. Like it's just something that happens instead of like going down that route and really
01:00:45
Speaker
putting time and effort into understanding why and what that is and how much you could do with it. Because I believe there is quite a lot you could do for your physical body with your mind. And the placebo effect is just a perfect example of that. And even like I've heard this before too, like the ancient Greeks even understood the placebo effect to a degree where there was like a certain illness or something, they might have used it for multiple illnesses.
01:01:14
Speaker
But what they would do is they would allow a snake to bite the person and say that the venom will cure them. But the snake would bite them and it would be a non-venomous snake and then they would get better. I think it could be very powerful depending on the understanding we have of it and the
01:01:37
Speaker
deep ingrained belief that you could have. Because even, you know, the mind is stubborn. So if you're trying to convince yourself of something that you don't believe or know in your core, there's still going to be a subconscious aspect of yourself that is saying, no, that's impossible. That's not how reality works. That doesn't fit my narrative, my story, what I quote unquote, know to be true.
01:02:03
Speaker
But I don't know if that's actually the case. I think the placebo effect is kind of a hint at something that we could explore much deeper.
01:02:14
Speaker
Yeah, man, the power of the mind to alter the body is just, it's incredible. And let's flip that around and talk about the most obvious connection between the body and the mind. Drugs. You take a drug, you eat a mushroom that goes into your stomach. It's digested and moved throughout your body and it changes your consciousness. It changes your mind.
01:02:41
Speaker
caffeine, coffee, I mean, eating a cheeseburger, even, I mean, there are so many things that you can do to your body, or with your body, and it affects your mind. And that also goes for exercise. If you go for a run or something, you come back from that run, you come back from the gym, you feel great. You have an altered state of consciousness. So
01:03:07
Speaker
I think, again, as we kind of said right in the beginning of this question, it's kind of a bullshit question because the mind and the body are the same thing. But it definitely does serve a purpose to, you know, break the mind and the body apart, identify, you know, what things in each of them as individuals affect the whole. And I think we just pointed out a bunch of those things. Yeah. All right. Next one. Number eight.
01:03:37
Speaker
How do we define identity and what makes each individual unique in a world of billions of people?
01:03:45
Speaker
Maybe I can say, instead of saying, how do we define identity? I'll just say, how do I define identity? Because it's going to change from person to person. You and I might have different variables that define identity, depending on certain things. So for me, what defines identity in the dual term of me and you sitting here together.
01:04:11
Speaker
There are things that are unchanging about our identity, things that we don't get to decide about our identity. And there are things that we do get to decide about our identity because you can change who you are. You can decide to mold yourself into whatever you think you want to be.
01:04:33
Speaker
And then there's also the judgment aspect of how we judge others, which sort of brings back the morality aspect of it. I don't think these things are accurate ways of truly getting down to the bottom of who a person is or what a person is, but these seem to be the ways in which we define what identity is in terms of who we are and who the people around us are and what makes each individual unique in a world of billions of people.
01:05:02
Speaker
Well, it's those things, the things that we choose, the parts of our identity that we choose, whether it be how we're molding ourselves, um, whether it be our value systems, things like that. But there also is a part of us that is unchanging. There's a part of us that is the same that I am thing that we were mentioning earlier.
01:05:28
Speaker
that is something that we all share. So I think on a fundamental level, we are all the same. But the things that make us unique, that stand us out from the background or the rest of our species are the things that we can control. Okay, so I think
01:05:51
Speaker
Identity would be anything other than yourself, or anything perceived to be other than yourself. To identify something, you have to perceive it to be other. And then you, as you are, project whatever you, piece of you, onto it. That being said, the truth is that we are actually one. We are one, but we identify as many.
01:06:18
Speaker
I think that since we are all one, we know each person is unique and special because everybody is a different expression of the one. So each individual you see is a part of the same one, but they're unique in their expression. That's why, as we were even talking about earlier, it's like every state of consciousness that you have is different.
01:06:40
Speaker
every single one from eating a Snickers to a Reese's. And then imagine that you can multiply infinity for every different human. So every different human is a unique expression at the exact same time. There are never two that are exactly alike. So I think I would see it as like a beautiful, perfect expression of yourself, of the unity.
01:07:04
Speaker
Yeah. I love that dude. Beautiful. I think we covered that one pretty good. Yeah. I think we got that. Yeah. All right. Number nine from chat GPT is knowledge absolute, or is it limited by our human perspective and understanding?
01:07:23
Speaker
Okay, so I think that there is definitely relative knowledge that's not absolute, but I think there's absolute knowledge as well. I mean, when you think of almost all human knowledge, it's just about mostly all relative. It's relative to being a human. It's not absolutely true. Like if I say, you know, the wall is 10 feet high. That's like my relative knowledge. It's unique to me and my perspective.
01:07:53
Speaker
And so while in our human state, I would say that we are definitely limited. So basically anything I say right now in a human state of consciousness is knowledge specific to that of this state. So in order for knowledge to be absolute, I think it has to be taken from that higher place that we talked about earlier, that you can obtain through altered states of consciousness or just even
01:08:22
Speaker
separating yourself from identity of the ego. So I think the absolute knowledge exists in a certain state of consciousness and it can be obtained from there and then brought back and expressed here in the human state.
01:08:38
Speaker
So I think mostly all knowledge that we talk about generally speaking is just day-to-day life. I think in a sense it's all relative. Even something as simple as a basic fact that you consider a fact, when you're thinking of the fact, it's not actually true knowledge, like a fact.
01:08:58
Speaker
what we would consider a fact because it's actually your interpretation of that quote-unquote fact because that's why you see people who have the exact same quote-unquote facts in their mind become the different conclusions based off of those facts. It's still interpretation and relativity in a sense. So I think
01:09:21
Speaker
Absolute knowledge is something that exists that is beyond, you know, the standard human state. Let's say that knowledge that is absolute is referred to as wisdom. So in terms of knowledge, we'll say no unless you're referring to wisdom.
01:09:45
Speaker
There's a difference there, difference being basically, like you said, relative and absolute.
Knowledge, Wisdom, and Art
01:09:51
Speaker
It's really hard to nail down anything that is absolute. But when you think of wisdom, you think of teachings and lessons that are not determined by a particular belief system necessarily. They are interchangeable. Uh, there are things that lead to progress regardless of what position you're standing from.
01:10:15
Speaker
And I think knowledge being more relative is two plus two equals four, mathematics, measurements. This is not to put wisdom over knowledge because each have their different domains that they excel in. There are certain things that knowledge can do that wisdom can't certain things that wisdom can do that knowledge can't. So to me, these things.
01:10:40
Speaker
ultimately have to be brought together. But I do think that they're very different. And both are limited by human perspective and understanding, in my opinion, because you have to be able to learn these things, you must learn knowledge, you must learn wisdom, some wisdom, some wisdom, you don't really have to learn, it's innate. But I think ultimately,
01:11:01
Speaker
We are limited by our perspectives and our understanding because we grow. If you think about yourself as a child, you weren't embodying the wisdom and knowledge that you embody now. So you're continuously growing, you're continuously changing.
01:11:17
Speaker
Wisdom seems to be maybe transcendent of the realm of the relative. That's probably what I would say differentiates it from knowledge itself, but knowledge is not absolute. Wisdom is.
01:11:36
Speaker
Yeah, I like that you brought up the word wisdom because it made me think of just that, that knowledge is the relative and knowledge can be given where wisdom must be earned. It's not something, nobody can give you wisdom. That's why it's, you can hear wisdom, but in order to obtain it, it must be earned. Whereas knowledge, you can spit facts at me all day and then instantly obtain that knowledge.
01:12:06
Speaker
that relative knowledge technically. But the absolute knowledge, the wisdom, must be earned and it must be found from within. I think that's another big difference between the two would be that you can't gain absolute knowledge from anywhere outside of yourself, in the relative sense even. So I think absolute knowledge is found from within or wisdom. You have to be
01:12:35
Speaker
the source of it, and nobody can give it to you. It must be earned. Yeah, the best that somebody else can do is show you the way for you to understand the wisdom for yourself. All right, last one, number 10. Can art and beauty be objectively defined or are they purely subjective experiences unique to each person? I think on one level,
01:13:06
Speaker
Art and beauty can be objectively defined, that level being the one, the absolute. And as I said earlier with one of the other questions, it's like you can touch that thing.
01:13:23
Speaker
You can touch beauty. You can touch something that is what would be considered a shared beauty. But there is an aspect of this, of course, that's purely subjective and based on our experiences.
01:13:39
Speaker
Because there are pieces of art that some people might say are stupid, look like shit. They don't really necessarily seem like art. Certain people think that art needs to be realistic. It has to be a depiction of realism or it's not art.
01:13:58
Speaker
Whereas you have abstract art, you have installation art. There's so many types of art and there's so many different types of people that you can definitely judge something subjectively.
01:14:14
Speaker
And it's definitely not necessarily like the objective, absolute definition of whether or not something is beautiful. You know, they always say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I completely agree with that. But there is that transcendent beauty that we share, that no matter who you are, when you feel it, when you touch it, it
01:14:39
Speaker
feels beautiful. The same thing as the morality question. It's that you can touch absolute morality. You can touch, touch absolute beauty. But that exists again, like we always say, I mean, I feel like we say this ad nauseam, but that exists beyond the relative. It exists beyond the dual in that unity field. That's where the beauty is. That's where the morality is. That's where it's all happening, man.
01:15:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think that I think beauty is objective. And you can.
01:15:16
Speaker
even shows in our relative domain. You can accurately measure a human being's beauty because it's objective. Symmetry in the face, things like this are objectively beautiful and that can be done with a lot of things. A lot of people will find the same things beautiful and you would say objective beauty. But I would say that
01:15:45
Speaker
Reality inherently is beauty. So there is the objective beauty is reality itself is beauty. So if you look at something and don't think it's beautiful, it actually is beautiful. You're just unaware of it. So from an absolute sense, there is an objective pure absolute beauty and it is the actual thing. Reality itself is pure beauty with capital B.
01:16:13
Speaker
And that's where I think you get the subjective part. Some people can't see the beauty in something. For some people, beauty is as surface level as it has to look nice to my eyes for me to understand it's beautiful.
01:16:29
Speaker
but that doesn't have to be the case. You can see the beauty in anything, in everything. So in that sense, it just lends credence to the idea that actually reality itself is beauty. And I would say the more that you know about yourself, the more you see it outside. So I'd say reality itself is objective, absolute beauty. But of course, the relative idea of it is people are attracted to different things.
01:16:58
Speaker
But I think attraction is a little different than beauty. And I think the relative type of beauty that people most frequently would think about isn't that the thing that they're perceiving isn't beautiful. It's just that they're unaware of it at that specific moment. But it actually is beautiful because beauty is inherent to reality and it's the way it is.
01:17:22
Speaker
Also, if you look at nature, nature is objectively beautiful. A sunset, a mountain, a waterfall, forest, you know, these are objective beauties.
01:18:39
Speaker
you