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Episode 62: Running Throughout Pregnancy with Kate Avery!
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Welcome to Episode 62 of Peak Pursuits, your ultimate podcast for everything trail running in Australia. This episode is hosted by Sim Brick and Jess Jason alongside a very special guest, Kate Avery! Hear about Kate’s pregnancy journey, from winning races early on to still getting out for a track session each week at 38 weeks. The ladies discuss the guidance Kate has been given by health professionals, the newer research that is guiding the current advice, and the progress we are making in changing the stereotypes and fears around women being active in whatever way their bodies allow throughout their unique pregnancy journey.
Then continue listening to hear Sim and Jess recap their training and some of the recent results around the country!
Results
Surf Coast Trail Marathon: https://tomatotiming.racetecresults.com/results.aspx?CId=16&RId=29860&EId=2&dt=2
Yandina Five O: https://results.sportseventservices.com.au/results.aspx?CId=16287&RId=6431&dt=2&top=3&EId=1
Albury Ranges Trail Run: https://www.alpinetiming.com.au/results/r600/
Eagle and Child WA: https://www.webscorer.com/race?raceid=394452
Kowen Trail Run: https://www.facebook.com/kowentrailrun/posts/podium-results-for-the-2025-kowen-winter-trails-marathon-male-1-michael-roeger-3/1329625589168170/
***Don’t forget, use code PPP at https://bix-hydration.myshopify.com/en-au for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits! Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and your own trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
Kate: Instagram
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
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Transcript
Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone!
00:00:08
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 62 of the Peak Pursuits podcast. My name is Simone Brick and I'm coming to you this week very excited about this episode because we've got some cool topics of discussion with a very exciting guest but also here is regular co-host to begin with Jess Jason. How are we doing Jess? It's been a few weeks.
00:00:29
Speaker
Hey guys, yeah going good. I'm very excited for this chat. umve Got the girls together so looking forward to this one.
Guest Introduction: Kate Avery
00:00:37
Speaker
Yep, and the girls being together is because our guest this week is the one, the only queen at the moment of ah inspiring women around the country, I reckon, everyone that runs at least, Kate Avery.
00:00:52
Speaker
Hello, Kate. Hello. Hey guys, thanks for having me. No, thank you for coming on. um and we Me and Kate were actually running, or Kate was running, I was biking today, Jess, and both of us were going, we don't actually know what Jess is doing next.
00:01:04
Speaker
What's Jess up to? so I'm going to start there just quickly. Jess, what are you up to next? I'm too curious. um Not much really. I'm just training until I can't really say yeah I don't think, on the podcast.
00:01:16
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I get Okay. Okay, cool. Fun times. You're training for the the big reveal. ah big Yeah, a big race overseas. So um I guess like I had a pretty hectic start to the year with two big races. so I'm kind of keen to just settle in and get some training done.
00:01:36
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. And now obviously I do remember what you had next, but I couldn't remember if there was anything in between. um So exciting times.
Pregnancy Journey and Running
00:01:46
Speaker
ah Now, Kate, we're going to start with you on this one um because I know you might need to leave at some point and I don't want to miss the ah journey that you've been on or hearing about the journey that you've been on recently.
00:01:59
Speaker
If and people don't follow Kate on socials, go follow Kate. She's a great follow. um I don't even know what your tag is, but they'll find you. It's not too hard. But for context, Kate is currently, um is it just 38 weeks at this point? Like is there a number of days that you count or do you just count the weeks now?
00:02:18
Speaker
It's 38 weeks, yeah. 38 weeks. So... thirty eight weeks so about to embark on a whole new journey, but you've just been through 38 weeks of, well, unknown and trying to navigate a different world in the body of Kate after many years of being an athlete, not pregnant.
00:02:37
Speaker
And I suppose that's the main thing we're here to chat about because from the sidelines, from watching and running with you throughout this whole thing, it has been so cool to follow along. um But to get us started, take me through, like if you, at the very beginning when you found out you were pregnant, did you think you would be where you are now at 38 weeks, still able to do what you can do?
00:03:01
Speaker
Absolutely not.
00:03:05
Speaker
I think as well the issue, no, it's not an issue, but it's um everybody's journey is so different and what they're able to do so it's not like there's a and manual where it's like do you know what you're allowed to do this or your body can handle this it's just uh all right well I'll just see how I feel yeah and from from observation like that's been your approach this whole time but was that your approach from the very beginning of just each day as it come see how I feel do what my body lets me kind of deal or did you have an idea of what you wanted to try and do during the pregnancy no was
00:03:43
Speaker
definitely just see how I feel and go with that and let my body dictate what I can and can't do um because they even like very early on um after i did cozy in November was like I'm done like I'm not pushing im I mean Jess knows this very well we we stayed together and i was like so um like hi i just I can't do the training.
00:04:09
Speaker
um and Granted, the training has looked very different. um But, yeah, I think I've just tried to be sensible. and yeah i feel like ah i feel like it's been a lucky ride with running. um But, yeah, just.
00:04:27
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. Like not everyone not everyone's body gives them the ability to keep going. um And every pregnancy, even in the same person, can look incredibly different. um I think you've got some role models in the running sport that have shown you that throughout the journey as well.
00:04:42
Speaker
um But I can still remember such early days of like, how many races did you end up doing? I think you did a recap recently on Instagram um of how many races you ended up with. Yeah, it was definitely more than I thought because, i like I said, after Cozy, I was like, no, you know, I don't think I'll do anything again.
00:05:00
Speaker
But um i did roller coaster. did two races at four peaks. cosy, two beers. And then after that, Warburton I still ran.
00:05:11
Speaker
I didn't race it, but then a 5k and then a mile. that um ah it yeah That mile was so impressive though, honestly.
00:05:25
Speaker
It's faster than I could run for a mile at any point. And you were like 36 weeks, weren't you? Did we find out if it was an actual light world record? Well, I think... Technically, I'm going to take it because it would be incredibly hard to marry up a race on exactly the same week with someone else. So I was you know what, it was faster. Just take it. I'm loving it.
00:05:51
Speaker
Yeah. I love that. On this day of my pregnancy. Because what was it, 5.17? It was wild. Yeah. Well, it depends which time we take. do you mean which time you take?
00:06:06
Speaker
ah somehow um i mean So mean, getting off the line has never been my strong point, but getting off the line pregnant is ah really not my strong point. So somehow i the ah the chip time was 5.15 and then the gun time was
00:06:30
Speaker
on, wasn't there like 10 people in this race or like 16? Yeah, there wasn't there wasn't many people in this race.
00:06:39
Speaker
yeah I love it. That's great. That is 5.15, even better. We'll take it. We'll take it. um Yeah, but early days, um what was sort of, actually, you can tell me, but what was the hardest so far?
Challenges of Pregnancy
00:06:54
Speaker
You're about to maybe get the hardest part of being pregnant with the whole labour and birth deal. But what has been the hardest thing to navigate, part most so partly when it just comes to life, but also then when it comes to running through a pregnancy?
00:07:09
Speaker
Like there's obviously been challenges along the way, but what stage would you say was the hardest to deal with? Well, like different parts are hard for different reasons.
00:07:20
Speaker
um But to start with the morning sickness was was pretty rough. um And then also trying to balance that with um still training for a race. Yeah, because you were still training for Cozzy at that point.
00:07:35
Speaker
Yeah, so I felt like I still needed to get out. like, The fatigue and the sickness that you can feel. umm Obviously, everyone's different, but it's awful.
00:07:48
Speaker
um So, yeah, so that to start with. And then now it's probably just um being uncomfortable. And, yeah, do you know what?
00:07:59
Speaker
Running feels fine. And I feel comfortable running. But honestly, getting up and down out of a seat...
00:08:08
Speaker
I'm like rolling over in bed. Oh my gosh. I'm like, Lockie, can just move over? I need like a big turning circle.
00:08:20
Speaker
Oh, definitely. i can I can actually see that because when you're running, you still look smooth as ever. Your easy run pace, even today, like it's not really changed much at all.
00:08:32
Speaker
But then... ah From running with you, I definitely feel like from observation, you're um you were having the least fun in the first trimester, let's say, um or seeming to like just not be able to enjoy it as much at all.
00:08:48
Speaker
um Just
Medical Guidance and Research
00:08:49
Speaker
based on how, like even at times I was just like looking at how tired you were and then being you were just being like, I remember one time I had a coffee and you would just like get away from me with the coffee. It makes me feel sick.
00:09:01
Speaker
And I'm like, oh, you just like those little things that you would never even think of because normally, obviously, you're fine with coffee. Yeah. so that's been a wild ride to watch. The anti-nausea tablets that you had in the race, like were you having them for training as well?
00:09:19
Speaker
and No. um I try to not take them too often. um more so just like the doctor had said they were fine but then also followed it up with like but it's best if you don't oh okay um so that's why I tried not to so like I definitely took them before Cozzy and yeah as you know no that that helped um but no other than that I tried not to just personal preference yeah yeah
00:09:54
Speaker
So fair. um Yeah. so so fair Everything's personal preference on this one in so many ways. But I suppose another thing I wanted to touch on is you now know, like the whole way through you've worked with how many different doctors and physios and all sorts, like how many would it be that you've had to see throughout this process and get guidance from?
00:10:15
Speaker
um So I've been lucky enough that Lucky's done a bunch of research and on it as well and like around strength training and stuff I should and shouldn't be doing which also I think is a massive benefit and um has enabled me to carry on um but then I've also seen um like a pelvic health physio because obviously like that's just a different area to yes yeah
00:10:46
Speaker
what Lockie does. um But she was great, like, and she explained like the research and um like the education ah around training now is like so different to what it was three years ago.
00:10:59
Speaker
yeah um So what I suppose that's where I'm leading with this question is I've seen like being on the track with you. I'm going to get to some of the speeds you're still covering, but being on the track with you and then seeing some people's reactions by no means everyone's reactions, but a certain subset of the population's reactions at times have honestly like I've never wanted to slap people in the face so much at times.
00:11:24
Speaker
um because it's old news, like get over it kind of deal of, no, she can be out here doing this. We don't need the judgmental looks. So I suppose where I'm heading with this is what does that research show? Like what is the guidance you were actually given? And then what would you say to other women that are trying to sort of follow the guidance that research and doctors and physios are giving them while still actually existing in a world with some fairly judgmental people that for whatever reason don't always feel the need to shut their mouth so I think the research now shows it doesn't tell you when to stop when to start doing whatever the exercise is um it just I think shows that like it's safe to do so there's the
00:12:14
Speaker
working with the polyhealth physio it still would be um the same questions of does this hurt you get discomfort with such and such and if obviously the answer is that yes then you should probably stop doing something but yeah if there's no reason to they are they were very supportive of yeah you can go full term and run yeah um so yeah so that's that's all I can basically go off is how I felt and do I have any discomfort and There's been times on runs where, like, I've been, I don't know if you've been on these runs, Tim, but, like, I've stopped, I've, like, oh, I've just felt something on my side, so then I'll yeah walk for a minute.
00:12:54
Speaker
So, like, I feel like any little thing, like, I would stop and listen to my body and... um go from there. But I feel like that's all you can do. And if I had a pound for every time somebody asked me when I was going to stop running, i've done I would have done all right in this pregnancy.
00:13:14
Speaker
Oh, you definitely would have. You definitely would have. I just think it's so cool how slowly we are seeing the perception change of, um and I think what what we've gotten or I've gotten to sort of witness throughout your pregnancy and running especially the track sessions with you and these sorts of things and just hearing your stories is that we're still in that interim where some of the old style thinking exists um for sure, and but we're slowly seeing it replaced.
00:13:43
Speaker
um And it's really cool to have examples like yourself showing that, no, like I'm not out here putting my baby in danger for the sake of a lap around a track kind of deal. Absolutely.
00:13:56
Speaker
Like literally but like not accusing you of in a way um when they're trying to literally just tell you to stop. um and But I think what I've observed from, I coach i've have coached people through pregnancy and one of the first things that people often come to me is like,
00:14:16
Speaker
they're scared to stay active because they're scared of the perceptions from other people of thinking, no, other people are going to think I'm being selfish or other people are going to think I'm like putting my baby in danger because of this old school view of like maybe what the research used to show or maybe just – People used to think our uteruses would fall out or some crap.
00:14:36
Speaker
like The thing is, like it's so patronising because people are like suggesting that they know a woman's body better than that then them. and secondly, like there's no research there's hardly any research on women like in sport.
00:14:52
Speaker
So like ah where this is all coming from and like the judgement is just... and Yeah, it's so patronising and like sexist, I reckon.
Benefits of Exercise During Pregnancy
00:15:01
Speaker
So um with the research, I think it's in the past three years that it's changed.
00:15:08
Speaker
And I think oh it was explained to me that previously like they was they told you to stop around 20 weeks or so, but not because there was research to show that it was detrimental, but there was no research to show that it was positive.
00:15:22
Speaker
And now there's research to show that it's really positive for baby and mum. So, yeah. Yeah, I saw that um article that Lachie shared on his flow state strength page where it was like, if especially if like the woman has been like highly active throughout their life, like it's super beneficial.
00:15:44
Speaker
um So yeah, that was super interesting. yeah Yeah, including flow on effects for bub itself, but for a healthier pregnancy, easier recovery from pregnancy,
00:15:55
Speaker
um like ah a lot of the outcomes of that research paper were like, there you can't argue with them. love It's like you just feel like you could but um but cut carry around that research paper and be like, here, read this. I like reading for your evening.
00:16:14
Speaker
um just to change your mind. But still, everyone's journey is going to look so different. And if I had have known at the start, like obviously when when you when I found out you were pregnant, it was like in my mind I get this idea ah the idea that ah at some point throughout this I'm going to lose Kate as a training partner.
00:16:31
Speaker
Like we're not – either easy run pace isn't going to marry up, she's not going to be able to run, or I'm definitely not going to have her for sessions. My goodness, you've just gone and gone. And even what last, I have my training week to go through last week and I was doing 600, 500, 400 times four. hundred times four And you were there for the entirety of the first two sets and then half of the next two sets. And Like watching you run a 75 second 400 at 37 weeks pregnant, I will never forget.
00:17:05
Speaker
It was incredible. I'm there and I'm like, I remember crossing and going, woo, I'm like happy with that 400. And then just looking back and going, my goodness.
00:17:15
Speaker
Yeah. Just you look comfortable and it's and to be fair, I will give the context here that pete people will hear that and go, oh, my gosh, that's really fast.
00:17:27
Speaker
It's not as fast as you are capable of at your peak, obviously. So it's like it's not as if you're going out and sprinting a 400-meter. And I can verify the effort was fine. Kate was probably breathing less hard than I was.
00:17:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:43
Speaker
This was so good. But um um i'm I know from
Post-Birth Recovery Plans
00:17:47
Speaker
what you've told me that you would never have imagined that would be the case. But I want to ask, do you have a are you doing a track session tomorrow?
00:17:54
Speaker
Is it continuing? Yeah, why not?
00:17:58
Speaker
to um Yeah, no, and I think that's the big thing as well. Like a lot of people have asked me that, um especially after that mile um in Ballarat that I did, and they were like, oh, well what would you do? Not pregnant.
00:18:12
Speaker
And I'm like, Yes, i like I'm not running easy, in like I'm not jogging around these sessions, but I'm also not doing sessions flat out, and I haven't done sessions flat out for a while.
00:18:23
Speaker
like Let's make that difficult. Yeah. um But also, yeah, like i just like each session sometimes feel ifully they feel different. and um I mean, I'm not surprised as an expert that I'm still running sessions. Yeah.
00:18:41
Speaker
It's good though because like as you said, like you'll jump in and out as it feels right for you. um And ah one thing that I think um other people and maybe other women that are that are in pregnancies can take away from this is that my big takeaway is that it's always been a does this feel good? Okay, I'm good to continue And then does this now feel like a little bit of a strain? Yeah. Okay.
00:19:04
Speaker
And um then you're like, even even debriefs after sessions and you're going, yeah, my hips didn't quite like that one. um And then adjusting the next week and those sorts of things. But um do you have much of an idea or research or like I'm assuming Lockie's also researched this? and for For reference, we know I know we've said Lockie a few times, this is the same Lockie that me and Brodie forever talk about being our physio.
00:19:31
Speaker
Kate's in good hands um with a physio for a husband. um But have you looked into much of the research of what you can expect after birth and in terms of a return?
00:19:42
Speaker
Yeah. No, I think, I mean, we have done some research and also from the pelvic health physio, I already have um exercises and stuff lined up for the first three weeks.
00:19:56
Speaker
But again, it also like is followed with the caveat of, but if you feel this, then you don't do it. Yeah. And obviously you have no idea what the birth is going to be like. So we've just got to, again, i think, same as throughout the pregnancy, just take it as it comes and and kind of figure out as we go.
00:20:17
Speaker
I reckon after and track sessions with a bit of extra weight like you are now, your legs are going to have so much mum strength yeah back of this pregnancy.
00:20:28
Speaker
Like cruising around this morning at what, 4.47s for 40 minutes? That's going to feel like a breeze when you you have aren't carrying and five, ten to ten extra kilos of bub.
00:20:41
Speaker
and Yeah, hopefully. It's like altitude training as well because the baby's taking the oxygen. i did not know that yet, but, yeah, we'll go with that. Well, there is there is also that you've got more blood volume, so there's a bit of an EPO effect going on that does show that pregnant women should technically have more capacity because of the extra blood volume that you have.
00:21:03
Speaker
that's amazing. which is like I feel like just a lot of women's bodies or the circumstances above doesn't actually let them use that. um But more circulating blood volume is a great thing for running and endurance and fitness.
00:21:18
Speaker
So but you've just then also got a, I don't necessarily want to say this, but I've said it to you before, you've got almost like a little parasite in there that's using some of it. Yeah, it's taking it all. Of course, the...
00:21:31
Speaker
You took all your iron a couple of times. I'm pretty sure you had to have a couple of iron infusions throughout. i I have, yes. um But smaller doses of ones, just to be safe.
00:21:43
Speaker
But they're an absolute lifesaver.
00:21:48
Speaker
I mean, you guys, I'm sure most know what low iron feels like, but I was just a zombie. You were. um So yes, they helped. Thanks, Taz.
00:22:02
Speaker
ah Awesome. Jess, you got any more questions for Kate about the pregnancy? You haven't been here running with us. It's been great fun, but you've you've seen parts of it throughout. Yeah, I've enjoyed seeing on social media. It's pretty amazing.
00:22:15
Speaker
um Yeah, I just, yeah, I don't know. um ah just want to say good luck, like, with the birth and everything. Like, it's I'm so excited to hopefully meet the baby sometime soon. And thanks as well for, like, being such an inspirational person in the space. Like, yeah.
00:22:37
Speaker
It's just cool to see like stereotypes being broken because I feel like a lot of people um with like running and even like exercise during pregnancy, like it's just such a taboo. And I think um given that there's no research that like proves that, like why, I just don't know why um It's still being like such a topic of judgment. Yeah.
00:23:02
Speaker
Just thanks for kind of pushing that and changing it. um I think you're doing amazing. Thanks, Jess. That's very kind words. And you know what the Australian, like even the track runners and marathon women, you're doing pretty well here to to change that stereotype. um Yeah, the some pretty impressive women that have come back.
00:23:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the thing. I've seen quite a number of very impressive women and um heard lots of really cool stories, like even talking to um another person that's given birth very recently, Maggie Lennox, but she was running right up to the day of birth of her first child. But it's less um common to see that story then told throughout.
00:23:45
Speaker
um And it might be told in afterthought because ah just because it's not shared as openly or not um with a platform. And so like it has a bit more of an impact when it's shared throughout the whole thing because that's the time when people are possibly going to judge you if they're the the type to not believe it um in what you're doing. So it's very cool.
00:24:09
Speaker
Which I did feel a little bit anxious about doing. and in sharing what I have been doing because of that reason. But, yes, like there has been some negative, but overall people have been super so supportive and positive around it.
00:24:27
Speaker
Yeah, it definitely outweighs. um Absolutely. But I think for I'd love to leave this part of the chat um for you, Kate, on what would you – Even I suppose you can speak to, i've got I've got a client that's just told me they're eight weeks pregnant, but like what would you say to someone at the very start of this journey that's about to embark on it all, having, still you're still very fresh for you. um You're still not quite through all of it, but.
00:24:56
Speaker
Knowing what you know now, like what would you say to someone that's either thinking about it? Because I've definitely spoken to women that go, oh, I don't want to get pregnant yet because I don't want to have to give up running, thinking that it's like the end um as it used to be viewed. But yeah, what would you say to future mothers, um pregnant women or those that have maybe just started that journey?
Advice for Expectant Mothers
00:25:17
Speaker
Um, good question. and I think it would be to embrace it. And yes, there's going to be challenges and everybody's will look differently, but to still do what you want to do Um, obviously providing that you feel good and, and all of that stuff with it, but tier to not be put off for no reason.
00:25:40
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's like that whole, there are many, many reasons you may need to stop that a doctor will tell you. Absolutely. Stopping because of the public perception or because of the people that may off on off hand that you're never going to see again, judge you or give you a judgmental look or tell you to stop or you're making them nervous.
00:25:58
Speaker
Please stop. They're not the reason to stop. another No, they're not.
00:26:05
Speaker
They're definitely not. Oh, love it. Love it. Well, Kate, we can let you go to dinner if you need to or you're welcome to stay on and hear my and Jess's training weeks. It's up to you.
00:26:16
Speaker
I'll listen to it on the pod. ah Awesome. You'll still have some part to tune into. But thank you for jumping on um and joining us. It's been lovely. Thanks. And I know that many people will enjoy this chat.
00:26:29
Speaker
aye Yeah, best of luck. will I'm sure we'll hear from you in a little while once you've ah readjusted to your new normal you're about to have. um not slash There may not be a normal that exists for you for a while now.
00:26:44
Speaker
so yeah is it just like any Is it just any day now? Yes, essentially. Imagine if it happened like tomorrow during your track session. I don't think it just comes then. I hope not anyway.
00:26:57
Speaker
no no, no. You get some morning, I promise. but that would be That would be a great story. yeah It'd be fitting. be fair, we were talking recently about I saw someone literally trying to make the labour come on and they were doing sprints up and down their driveway trying to force labour on. So might work.
00:27:19
Speaker
Yeah, I'll give that a go tomorrow. but I can imagine you're quite ready to be on to the next part now. so i um yes.
00:27:31
Speaker
Awesome. Well, thank you for joining us and we will chat to you during that next part to hear about the rebuild and, ah yeah, finally get whatever your body allows you, get the scoop on whatever your body allows you to aim for next running-wise. But ah life's got a little thing that for you to take care of first.
00:27:50
Speaker
Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming, Kate. Thanks, Kate. Good luck.
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00:27:55
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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00:28:44
Speaker
And with that, let's get back to the show. Okay, Kate has left us. um So hello, Kate, since since now you promise you'll be listening to this.
00:28:54
Speaker
yeah We get to talk to her. um So Jess, I know I briefly checked in because I was too curious not to ask the question at the top of the pod of what you've got next.
00:29:04
Speaker
um But your training week, it looks like like your Strava is such a nice little build at
Jess's Training Week
00:29:10
Speaker
the moment. um And but what some people would say would would absolutely hate to look at your overall um distance stats for last week. What were you like, 98 high?
00:29:23
Speaker
um Which I know some runners would get a little bit antsy about, but how was the week? Yeah, it was good. um Yeah, I guess like I don't really look at weekly kilometres. Like I kind of just... It's a good way to Yeah, most of my stuff is by time.
00:29:38
Speaker
um say yeah, I don't know. I feel like I'm still... Like I was feeling really good off um UTA and then I went back into sessions last ah last two weeks. I did one couple of weeks ago and... um Last week it was my first week back at two sessions.
00:29:57
Speaker
yeah um And I've sort of just been like wanting to jump into group sessions, um just kind of being a bit sick of doing my own thing. Yeah. But that is kind challenging because like the options that I have are all with kind of track runners at the moment.
00:30:16
Speaker
um The group that I was doing track sessions with are all overseas um doing altitude training or racing. yeah So I've been jumping in with Dick Telford's group, which that group trained bloody hard. Like I've been pretty privileged like over my running career. Like I've been able to experience a lot of different um coaches that are like super like high profile, like well-known in the athletic scene. But Dick Telford is bloody hardball. Like I don't know. His training is borderline insanity. um What was the question?
00:30:55
Speaker
Like I'm probably ah exaggerating, but it's like, You go down there to the track and like he doesn't tell you what the session is, but every session starts with a 2K.
00:31:05
Speaker
They call it sub t sub threshold. Yep. And then two fast 200s. Yep. um So get to the 2K and I'm like expecting everyone to kind of be going like tempo my tempo pace, which is like, and I don't know, marathon pace or And they're going out at like 330s and I'm like, oh, fuck, this is not.
00:31:29
Speaker
I'm already at like 10k pace. It's not quite a self-threshold, but yeah, i sure. um Yeah, and then got through that and the two 200s and then I was like, okay, hopefully it's like just some shorter reps so I can kind of,
00:31:46
Speaker
sit at the back and not get too cooked. But then he's like, oh, yeah, four by mile. was like, oh, God. It was going to be like 10K worth of track session at like my ten k pace. It was like perfect.
00:31:58
Speaker
Perfect first track session back. I'm looking at it now. You held on well. Oh, I didn't run that session very well. I had to – I could only do three miles before I was like everyone's getting slower.
00:32:12
Speaker
um and I was like I'm just I'm just overreaching here so I just stopped um yeah but they're not well based on your splits your second and third one look like they were the same and then yeah I didn't like the effort just felt like I don't know I get what do you mean but yeah I think you still what that's still 7k at your 10k pace Like that's a damn good session.
00:32:38
Speaker
Yeah. And then I was cooked basically. So then i was like planning on doing a session on Thursday, which is another like ten k worth of probably 10K pace, but on the roads. Yep. And I had done that one with them the week before and it was – such a shock to the system because it was like probably one of my first early mornings in winter here in Canberra.
00:33:02
Speaker
And it was like the first really, really cold morning. It was like negative four degrees. And I rocked up and I was like, cause we were doing like the warmup um straight into the tempo, straight into like a 4k tempo. And so I was like, oh like I'll wear my warm stuff, but I don't want to get too warm.
00:33:22
Speaker
And I didn't even know why that crossed my head because I'd never run a negative four before. i was the only one there in shorts, let me tell you. Like everyone else had pants and lot like two layers of long sleeves and like some people had heated gloves on. I was like, oh, God, I'm like the least clothed here and probably the least cold adapted as well.
00:33:42
Speaker
um And, yeah, that session, like – Just felt freezing the whole time. Like when it's that kind of weather where there's no wind, but so once you start moving faster, like you get colder because you're like moving through the air faster.
00:33:59
Speaker
Yeah, I get you. And I just got like more and more nauseous like each rep. Like I was getting dizzy and then I threw up in the last rep like halfway and it was just gross. Like...
00:34:15
Speaker
Was this last week or the week before? This was the week before. So I'm just, this is a preamble. So anyway, i was like, I don't think I can do this again after like the track session last week. So it's a little overreaching.
00:34:29
Speaker
Yeah. I was like, oh, I really wanted to train with the group, but um I guess I'll just do my own thing. Cause I'm still like in the back of my mind. I'm like, I don't want to push too much now because I'm so far out from my next race. um So was like, I'm just going to do what I think is sensible and do my own planned session, which was on the Friday, um which was just three 10 minutes threshold.
00:34:56
Speaker
think in the middle of the day, which looks much kinder. Yeah, I'm lucky I can get out at lunchtime, um which yeah was super nice. It was like 12 degrees or so. Yeah.
00:35:08
Speaker
Yeah, much perfect conditions for running. um yeah yeah i Yeah, I think I felt pretty average, but then the next day I got my period, so i was like, oh, that makes sense. Checks out.
00:35:22
Speaker
Yeah. um And then, yeah, I just did my long run, sort of the next notable run um around
Winter Training Concerns
00:35:32
Speaker
Maduro and Ainsley. I've just been going local the last few weeks.
00:35:35
Speaker
I was thinking about heading out to um one of the mountains, but I'm a little bit scared to go out by myself. um with the snow like just because I don't I don't know what it's like and I don't know where to go that's like I don't know it sounds a bit silly like whether it's actually runnable um so I'm waiting i to have I'm waiting till I have like someone to go out with before I do that yeah no that checks out like you want to have the confidence and also uh the all the gear to pack when going in that sort of temperatures and snow and stuff like
00:36:13
Speaker
They're the times you will find me on my long run with a massive pack of contingency stuff. um Yeah. So you just want to make like they they there is a sensibility in that for sure.
00:36:26
Speaker
Yeah. so Yeah, I just don't want to get like stuck with – because I've had hypothermia before so I do have a bit of like anxiety about that. Do you have a survival bag? Like the actual bag, not the not just the blanket?
00:36:38
Speaker
No. So like there's when I'm going for a run in those temperatures and I know I might be in snow, there's like, I suppose, four things I pack, but it would be thermals, waterproofs and a bivvy bag. And then I kind of just know that if I have to stop, I'm not going to die of hypothermia.
00:36:56
Speaker
by And also when I'm running, like if for whatever reason I'm too cold, like even if I'm wearing thermals and long sleeve, I will pack another thermal and another like jacket.
00:37:08
Speaker
um That's my contingency of going. it It makes me feel a lot safer out of there. And to be fair, this is smart for everyone to do. Please do it. But it's like that whole if something was to go wrong and I'm already soaking wet, I have an entire dry warm change. Yeah.
00:37:24
Speaker
And that's then it's just add of your mind to think that. And then I find I don't even mind being cold because you know how when you're out running and if you're cold but you've got no way to get warm in the foreseeable future, you can kind of start to freak out a little.
00:37:37
Speaker
And you're like, oh, my gosh, now I feel even more cold. And like mentally your brain doesn't do kind things to you. Whereas I find if I'm out running in the really cold temperatures but I have my pack full of all of the things I need to get warm, like I'll even take the hand warmer things, the shaky things.
00:37:52
Speaker
Yeah. And then I know if I have everything I need to get warm, I then can deal with being cold on the run back to the car kind of thing, like and the whole time as opposed to mentally freaking out a little.
00:38:06
Speaker
So there's my suggestion for these runs when you do go out on them. Just pack lots of – pack an entire change. And that's where you have to race with all this stuff anyway, so it's good race training. Yeah, I just need to get more prepared. It's just – yeah, I've never lived in a climate like this before. It's definitely different to Melbourne. Like it's just – that next level of coldness where it's actually like you need to be prepared for it.
00:38:28
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. I got i got to another bit of a taste of that. I've had tastes of it in some ways all over the world going on snowy runs but in Bright last week.
00:38:40
Speaker
I was like, it's been a long time since i went I went for a run in long leggings, thermals, a jacket and a wind jacket over the jacket and ski gloves and didn't get warm.
00:38:52
Speaker
Yeah. And I was like, okay. Oh my God. We are officially in cold weather. To be fair, was like sleeting the entire time. So, you know, like that'll happen.
00:39:02
Speaker
But no, that sounds like a good week from, from here. Is this kind of, uh, you're going to continue to build from here in terms of hours or sessions or anything, or what's like, what's the next month or so look like for you in terms of training?
00:39:16
Speaker
um I don't have it planned out yet, to be honest. Nice. I'd say i probably won't like build it up too much until July.
00:39:27
Speaker
Because I think three months before a race is like pretty, yeah is like enough time. Yeah, yeah. You don't want to overdo it. Yeah, but we'll see. We'll see. I think I'd like to get a bit more over like, I don't know I've been chatting to like Lockie and my coach and stuff and um I'd like to do incorporate a bit more like cross training because I feel like um I'm definitely like a lower mileage runner and I still have like one day off a week where I don't actually do anything except gym so I'm thinking maybe I'll do some cycling it's not the best time of year start to want to do some cycling but maybe I'll use it as heat training and like do it in the gym or something was gonna say indoor cycling because yeah cycling in winter is even more painful than running in winter yeah my feet have never felt that much like icicles yeah I think I'll be heading indoors for that but um
00:40:19
Speaker
It's where I'm actually loving my heat training sessions because if I spend all day cold and then I just rug up and go on a treadmill, I'm about to be boiling, guys. We're good. yeah Yeah. And, yeah, I've been hearing all about, like, the heat training and, like, I think I need to do some – um because I'll be heading to Europe and I have been doing a bit of passive stuff in the sauna. So I'll continue doing that.
00:40:43
Speaker
um So yeah i yeah, I probably need to do a bit of just thinking about like not doing too much though. Like um that's sort of an area that I'm not sure about. okay As long as like you take guidance and you incorporate things slowly and sensibly, like you'd be amazed your body can and like adapt and get so much stronger as you go as long as you only stress it more than usual, a small amount, like that whole idea progressive overload. So it's like so fine to add things in. You just want to A, add maybe one at a time or like you can, within reason, add different things in, but at the same time in small amounts to begin with and then keep listening to what your body tells you is important.
00:41:25
Speaker
too much or weeks will go haywire. And this is actually like a fun topic in some ways because, um and my week will, when I, I'll go through my week, but it's like the epitome
Consistency in Training
00:41:36
Speaker
of this. if was chatting to someone that I mentor, I don't coach them, but I mentor them.
00:41:41
Speaker
Um, this week and just on our phone chat it was a case of her going well you do you have final surge or do you use any of those things now any of like the training peaks or anything like that with your coach yeah I coach with final surge and train with training peaks yeah yeah well she was just saying how Strava like she gets really upset when her Strava is not like level or up and it's down and also she became a little bit too focused on getting the green dot on final surge every single day and then thinking that like if she didn't have a green dot she was losing fit and like just that was playing on her mind too much and I have final surge and I went through and I'm like I have to scroll back to December last year to find a week where every single day was green and that's because it was a recovery week.
00:42:33
Speaker
yeah yeah I was like every single, I have missed the most important sessions before my meet recent races. I have missed at least one, if not four to five things every week that I put on my plan.
00:42:44
Speaker
And it's because of that, that I am consistent. And it was just like, you had this idea of going, and I think this happens in runners' minds a lot where like, you can look at metrics of things and go, I haven't been consistent.
00:42:55
Speaker
And it's like, well, no, do you feel fitter than you did six weeks ago? And have you run every single week? a certain, like to a certain level. And it's like, yes. And I'm like, you've been consistent. Like, yeah there's ah there's no other metrics needed. So no, it's good. Go off a vibes based training plan.
00:43:13
Speaker
And I think that's where I was going with that is like, when it comes to adding things in for you, like cross training or heat or anything, it's just like, if one day your body tells you it's fine, go for it.
00:43:25
Speaker
If another day your body tells you it's not, that's fine too. Like, Yeah. Yeah, 100%. I think I'm definitely getting better at that kind of approach. It's just, it's hard because I think a lot of runners are probably similar, but like we're just such like routine based people generally. Like we just, we want to do the plan and we want to do like the same thing every week.
00:43:47
Speaker
And if we don't, it feels like a failure, but it's like you look at a lot of people that have been successful and like listen to like people like the best marathon runners in Australia and like they alter their sessions all the time like based off how they're feeling and um yeah the best of the best are doing all that stuff so it's just especially for women I think like we just have that extra factor of not every week's going to feel the same not every day is going to feel the same so yeah changing your brain so you can be a bit more flexible around the training is definitely going to help reach that consistency yeah
00:44:21
Speaker
Yes, yes. And I feel like I am living this at the moment. I've never enjoyed my training more and it has never looked more haphazard. And it has never been more like even there's multiple times Kate will ask me, what are you up to tomorrow? So we try and plan something and I'm like, I'll let you know when I wake up.
00:44:36
Speaker
yeah hu It's very much, we are we are flying on vibes right now, but the vibes are high. So it is so fine. So to be fair, I'll actually go through my training week because this was one of those weeks and say what was planned versus what I did because it's rather laughable at times.
Simone's Training Week
00:44:52
Speaker
But um on the Monday I was still in Bright so I'd raced Wandi Cross on Tuesday on the Saturday I'd then gone for like a wild hike on the Sunday with Matt um we went up the northwest spur of Feathertop which has a VK on it and we went and through snow and I was so happy that's so cool um But then I couldn't help myself. I had to go check the parts of the Wandi course that I hadn't raced on Saturday, on Monday.
00:45:21
Speaker
And purely because, you know, it's part of a race course. I didn't do it hard, but I also didn't do it easy. So what was on the plan was three hours easy around Bright.
00:45:32
Speaker
What I did was an hour 40 of the one decross course um because it just felt like what ah my brain wanted to do that day. Like it felt so easy because I was just excited to do it. So i was like, yep, cool.
00:45:45
Speaker
Also had to drive home from Bright. So, you know, that's, made it for a long day anyway. um Tuesday, because I was meant to do three hours Monday, was actually meant to be a really easy day.
00:45:56
Speaker
But I messaged him on Monday night going, I only did an hour 40 today. Feel good after Wandy. Let's do a session tomorrow. So i got up on Tuesday and did ah the session I chatted about that Kate was there for, where I did four by 600, 500, 400, where had Kate's company and essentially kept the 600s really cruisy.
00:46:16
Speaker
but They felt amazing. 500 is honest and then 400 is I feel bad sometimes when I'm like telling Kate the paces before the session and she's because she's trying to decide whether she tries to keep up or not and I'm going oh yeah the 400 is 77, 78 and then I did run the first one in 77 but then went like 75, 75, 74. I'm like sorry. I didn't mean to do that one.
00:46:40
Speaker
ah However, this is where my week took a bit of a turn um for multiple reasons. So picture this. I'm with Kate and I've told her I've got an appointment like five minutes around the corner at 11 a.m.
00:46:54
Speaker
And so we get there at 9.30 and we're like, yeah, yeah, it's a short track session. We'll get it all done. We'll get the cool down done and I'll go to my appointment. I finish that 400 rep. I turn around to go back to my bag to like start the cool down and stuff. Kate looks at her watch and goes, hang on, what time was your appointment?
00:47:10
Speaker
And I finish that 74 second 400 10.54
00:47:14
Speaker
i am And my appointment that I cannot get out of and that I really need to be at is in is five minutes away in five minutes. Oh, my God.
00:47:24
Speaker
My cool down didn't exist. I was still gassed from running the 400. And I then, like, run, grab my bags, get in my car, still in my fast shoes and everything, drive straight to this appointment, thankfully find a park.
00:47:36
Speaker
I literally walk into the doctor's office. like sweaty in my track clothes like I managed to take my like carbon plated shoes off and stuff but I was just like this is not how today was meant to go okay then here's the real kicker this is for all the ladies out there um but and you are not to be fair personal preference on whether people understand this or not but that appointment was to get my IUD replaced So it was not a fun appointment, like painful.
00:48:08
Speaker
Anyways, got that done. And then I did force myself because my legs, like I'm in this appointment and my legs are shaking. And I'm like, okay, this is this is just not, like I had to laugh.
00:48:20
Speaker
I'm like, there's nothing to do but laugh this point. But then I did jog for like 15 minutes straight after and I'm like, okay, life's just not going to be good for the next 48 hours. Whatever. This is fine.
00:48:30
Speaker
um But then I decided to add insult to mitt injury because I get home, I'm starving post-track, all those things. Walk up to my cupboard, shove my hand in a box of Savoy's, walk away, eat five of them, walk back to the box, realize it's the gluten ones, not the gluten friends.
00:48:49
Speaker
And honest I honestly, just sat on the floor of our living room and went, I am about to have the worst 48 hours possible.
00:49:00
Speaker
possible Like I have cramps galore and I'm now about to feel very sick for two days. So because there was just nothing I could do. I'm like, okay, this is fine.
00:49:11
Speaker
I'm fine. So anyways, that's some context for training over the next few days because I was meant to do an uphill treadmill that evening day. hate That didn't happen. I sat on the stationary bike next to Matt while he did ah elliptical for 30 minutes, like probably pushing 50 watts um as I'm like there nauseous and feeling horrible.
00:49:37
Speaker
um wednesday was always actually meant to be a mountain bike ride and thankfully mountain biking felt fine um but this is where everything really caught up to me because again and this is where i also took a big step back just for that week from the heat so when i thought i'm telling telling you like your body will let you know i went to do a heat session that afternoon um on the treadmill that it was meant to be an hour uphill running And the treadmills were taken, had to start on the elliptical. But once I was on the treadmill, I think I lasted about five minutes of running before.
00:50:11
Speaker
There's a difference between, you know, that feeling of sweating because your body's just overworked as opposed to working nicely hard. I don't know. it was just that feeling of going, nah, I'm overdoing it here. This isn't good.
00:50:24
Speaker
Like I almost felt sick because of how hot I was as opposed to working hard. um So that very quickly became, I like took a few layers off and just walked uphill on the treadmill, still sweated a bunch. So I called it heat training, but um it was like fatigue hitting hard. Yeah.
00:50:42
Speaker
And then Thursday morning, to be fair, I probably can't complain because you're in Canberra, but I did go out for a cold session. um I think it was feels like two degrees, like not your minus four, um but it was still pretty cold.
00:50:59
Speaker
um And I lowered the expectations of this session. I had it was 10 by three minutes on three minutes off. um which normally you've done this session with me before actually, Jess. Yeah, that's a good one. i like that session. I love this session. um Normally we're going pretty hard on those three minutes on um and then I'm trying to keep the three minutes off fairly honest.
00:51:20
Speaker
But it feels like two degrees in the body I had at that point in time full of fatigue and cramps galore. um I'm pretty sure my three-minute on efforts, like where we would normally be running this at like 3.30 also And I were like three fifty five and feeling hard.
00:51:40
Speaker
And I was like, okay, today's just that day. That's fine. So I still kept, I kept the offs like as close as I could. um So I think I averaged like 409 for the hour. So I was like, ah but it was one of those days where have to get to the end and just go,
00:51:54
Speaker
We got it done. Like I did the work. And in many ways, it made me realize how little flat running I've been doing recently because my legs still actually got a good stimulus of fatigue just from the continuous nature of it and the fact that it's perfectly flat.
00:52:08
Speaker
So... Yeah, that was happy days in terms of getting it done. But I was, again, useless the rest of the day. I went to the gym, like to where I do my treadmill uphills to do another treadmill uphill and literally got there, stood there looking at the treadmill and went, I can't do it, and went and did a gym session.
00:52:27
Speaker
um So another one just canned for the evening, but I got a decent-ish gym session in, so happy. And then this is where, again, week takes a wild turn because my Thursday was easier than it was meant to be. I wake up Friday and it was really good weather and I was only meant to run an hour and I'm like, well, I've got a long run to do tomorrow.
00:52:48
Speaker
So it's good weather today. i have time. Like I've got nothing else on for the day. So I went to Listerfield and ended up running four and a half hours. and Just a bit over an hour.
00:52:59
Speaker
Instead of one hour. oh But it was like, whatever, Trevor, like making the most of the day. And to be fair, I started that one with, again, like I was feeling pretty good again at this point. Like I thought I was kind of out of the woods in terms of like just getting food in had been really hard the previous few days. Like I don't need to go into detail, but my guts were not good. So food in was hard and I was full and it was just nausea and horrible stuff.
00:53:25
Speaker
But I thought I was coming good. And I thought I was coming good until but I got about two hours in. And then I was like, oh, no um But also I was too stubborn to give up on my idea of running 41Ks for the day over 40Ks for the day.
00:53:40
Speaker
So that was a very stubborn run by me. I don't let myself do this too often anymore. But it was one of those things of I was moving so slow. Like my flat kilometers were about six minutes to 6.30s.
00:53:51
Speaker
Like I'm talking slow. My average heart rate over the whole four and a half hours was 120. no So like I'm not being silly here. Like I'm not trying to push the envelope in terms of how fast I'm going and stuff. But I was like, nah, I'm going to pretend I've just gone out too hard in a race and I have to suffer the consequences.
00:54:10
Speaker
um yes That was kind of what, and I was still getting all my carbs in and everything. So I was like, you know what, this is fine for today. um And so again, a ridiculously slow run for me, but at the same time got it done.
Future Race Preparations
00:54:23
Speaker
And that meant Saturday, instead of three hours of running, I did 30 minutes. Yeah. So, you know, we made up for it. Balance. Balance, exactly. um And that was with her run. So, again, super slow. That was just my coaching group that I coach. Although I did lose a few of them. So I had to go sprinting off at one point to go but catch a few that had passed the turf.
00:54:46
Speaker
So think there was like Ks of like mostly 5.30 to 6-minute Ks and then the last two Ks like sub four minutes. So I'm trying to go catch people and I'm like, well, there's my shakeout run for tomorrow.
00:54:57
Speaker
um And then again, i was about to double, didn't feel the double, did some Pilates and strength training instead. So it was like every single training session this week, it was like, do I feel like doing what I'm about to plan, have planned? And it was like, no, let's just do something different.
00:55:13
Speaker
So Did that and then had Lakeside 5 on Sunday, which was intriguing. It was like how to go from two opposite ends of the spectrum in one week, Maundy Cross to Lakeside 5. Yeah. um And I was feeling like purely because of how flat Friday was. Like Friday was 41Ks with less than 1,000. So like that's a lot of flat for me.
00:55:37
Speaker
At moment, like my legs were stiff. I was feeling Friday, that's for sure, even though it was slow. Like I was jogging the warm-up. Thankfully got to jog that with Kate around the lake. um And she's like, oh, what are you aiming for? And I'm like, honestly, my stomach's still not perfect.
00:55:52
Speaker
i'm lower I feel slightly low on energy and my legs are like mildly cooked. So I'll be just be happy to make it around this course today. um And I was like, honestly, if I'm anywhere near 1830, like I thought I'd be 1845, 1830, I was like, I'll be happy.
00:56:08
Speaker
That's fine for the day. I've got, I was always planning on doing at least two hours after the run or like close to two hours after the run. So I'm like, I can't afford to sprint. Anyways, I do the warmup. Kate goes, oh, just go do some strides. You might come good. See what happens.
00:56:22
Speaker
And um then there's 400 people on this start line. was like, this is cool. This is a lot of people. But also there was a lot of really little kids. We had the young boys in our race but also the young girls. Like I'm talking down to like under 14, under 13. They were tiny.
00:56:37
Speaker
um And anyways, we take off and I did the typical thing of because I'm in Premier Division, you start at the very front. I think like well over 100 people at the field passed me.
00:56:48
Speaker
straight away. i just let people stream past me. And then you watch all these tiny little kids that are half my height. And I'm like, oh this is going to be fun to see how long you stay ahead. This is great. um And I've just realized how much of a fun way it is to start a race because then the entire race, I'm just picking someone that's gone off faster than me and going, okay, catch that person and then catch that person. So I made a con of like I definitely I did not ever look down at my watch. I didn't want any feedback whatsoever. I was just running along going, yep, this feels like the right effort for today. That's fine. Run to the turnaround.
00:57:24
Speaker
um On the way back, it was like I if you if you had have asked me what was happening, um I thought I was maintaining pace and that I was then just catching people that had gone out too fast.
00:57:35
Speaker
And that's why I was catching people like I was like, yeah, I feel like same effort, just maintaining pace. Um, and then slowly as we're getting closer to the stadium, I'm like catching people that to be fair, there's still nowhere near the people that I would want to be racing if I was racing this race. But I was like starting to catch people I recognized from the cross country series and stuff. And I'm like, oh, sweet. That's fine.
00:57:58
Speaker
Um, and then we get into the stadium and I do my usual, like you, obviously you kicked down a little bit to the finish. Um, And then I actually think I mentioned this on the podcast last week. There's a running joke for me that like I have run between 17.55 and 18 minutes flat every time. When I saw your time, I had a little laugh.
00:58:19
Speaker
but i so your timeme i had a little laugh Oh, my gosh. So i'm running around the bottom of the stadium because we have to do a lap of the track to finish and I still haven't looked at the time.
00:58:30
Speaker
i finally look up with probably like less than 100 metres to go, maybe 100 metres to go, and I see 17.42 I look at the distance to go and I'm just there like kicking myself. I was like, you have got to be kidding me because to still to that point, you had asked me what I was running, I would have said 18.30-ish.
00:58:52
Speaker
Like I genuinely didn't think I was running that fast. Yeah. And then I come around the corner and obviously I try to kick a little bit, but even in my head as I'm trying to kick a little bit, I'm like, oh, don't sprint too hard. You've got a long run to do.
00:59:03
Speaker
oh Because it was like, whether it's 1754 or 1758 doesn't actually matter that much. I'm like, yeah at the end of the day, I can run a lot faster for 5K. But yeah it was just very funny because even Kate, ah she was watching the finish and she's like, she's just gone and run the same time again. I'm like, yeah, 1758.
00:59:22
Speaker
Again, I reckon I've run that multiple times. I've run 1755 three times, twice, seventeen fifty eight three times um um I genuinely think that's amazing. Like after the Friday, I know you said it was slow, but like just having that in your legs, like that's really incredible and like positive signs as well for the like strength and fitness and like ability to recover. 100%.
00:59:48
Speaker
ah hundred percent like I am stoked. um Like, because not that is the easiest sub 18 I've done by a long shot. Like every other time I've run sub 18, I've been there for to run at a 5k race.
01:00:03
Speaker
Like I've still been trying to race every other time. um Funnily enough, my PB though was just me trying to pace a friend to sub 18 because I was so reliable to run that, but just still no faster.
01:00:15
Speaker
But yeah. Yeah, it was like getting to the end, I was shocked at the time, genuinely. And also looking at my stats, I essentially went 340, low, 340, 340, 330, 320.
01:00:27
Speaker
three forty three forty three thirty three twenty And if you had told me I could do that, like it was 322 or something. Like if you had told me I could do that, I would have gone, nah, nah, nah. I can't do that today. Like I ran a marathon two days ago.
01:00:42
Speaker
Like my legs yeah don't have that speed in me right now. um yeah And then when I was chatting to Tim, he's like, no, no, no. I suppose he's always told me I'm faster than I think I am. um But at the same time, it was just like when I looked back at the stats, I'm like, I can't even do that in a 1K rep most of the time. And I just did it like that's in the last K of the 5K to get my time down. yeah Anyways, it was cool.
01:01:07
Speaker
I was very happy. um Still did do my long run afterwards. So totaled 32K for the day or so. um which got me a decent sized week um overall, thankfully. See, it was one of those weeks that if you had have like told me that's how the week would go and like when when you just asked me overview the week, I'm like, oh my gosh, that felt horrible.
01:01:29
Speaker
But in hindsight, I had a damn good track session and a damn good race in the middle of absolute mayhem. So like... I'll take it. but Definitely. Yeah. Like I wonder if um the fact that you kind of like because you had the sickness, like you had to pull back a little bit earlier in the week. So maybe that meant that you were able to recover faster from that marathon on the Friday um before the 5K. But yeah.
01:01:57
Speaker
Yeah. Like overall, I think hours wise I only missed like a little bit of running. um I made up for but almost all of what was on the plan.
01:02:08
Speaker
Maybe a little bit more was on the plan. But, like, I think I still got, like, 20 hours of training. and Yeah. Because by the time you add the biking um up, I got a good amount of,
01:02:19
Speaker
cardio and those sorts of things so like definitely that's the thing I think I'm learning is that a I'm just trying to make the most of the good days but the good days are better when I let the bad days be as bad as they essentially and just don't care I go yeah like I used to care a lot when I miss something and now I go it's fine because there'll be another day I feel good and I do nothing yeah there's another day I do almost nothing and it's fine Yeah.
01:02:43
Speaker
So, and like for me, it felt like there was so much rest in the week because of so many things I missed, which I think is a cop out in some ways because there wasn't actually, when I look back at the week, I'm like, oh no, I still did something all the time.
01:02:57
Speaker
But in my head, because I changed it, I was resting. Yeah. Which, yeah not accurate. But also, I was chatting to Kate about this today too. Like, i had to make, it was the, it was been a long time since I've realised just how much I eat purely because it's not normally that hard for me to get in.
01:03:17
Speaker
But after gluten and my guts being horrible, every single day, i was like, oh my gosh, this is hard to do. Even actually to the point that um The morning of the 5K race um then on Sunday morning, I woke up at 3 a.m. m and I'd had like three or four dreams in a row dreaming of a breakfast buffet.
01:03:36
Speaker
Like I was just dreaming of food and I woke up and I checked my watch. It was like 2.40. forty And I was like, no, I'm hungry. Like I can feel the fact that I'm hungry. Now, I would have used to just take a sip of water, roll over, try to go back to sleep.
01:03:50
Speaker
I actually at 2.40am went to the cupboard and I'm there sitting in bed eating three of the big old El Paso gluten-free tortillas. yeah
01:04:02
Speaker
3am and I'm like, this is probably not normal behavior, but it feels like what my body rate needs right now. So you know what? I like it. um And it's just, it's little things like that, that would, I would have never used to do that. Now I go, well, no wonder I'm recovering better. I'm also eating more than I've ever eaten in my life.
01:04:21
Speaker
um And not not only that, I'm just not even thinking about it. <unk>s like Like it's not a stress. It's just a I'm hungry. Let's go eat the food. Or like I'll get 100 grams or 120 grams of carbs an hour in on the run and I'm still eating my massive bag of chips in the car on the way home sort of thing. And I'm not sort of changing what I'm doing around the runs while also getting more in.
01:04:44
Speaker
um Yeah. Yeah. which I would have used to believe would be detrimental to me. And now I'm going, I feel like I found a superpower. um Yeah. It's amazing. So yeah, may that continue, I hope, because I've actually just got bigger and bigger weeks coming up. um Yeah, so your this is training for CCC, right? do you have anything else?
01:05:05
Speaker
not Well, I've got Brisbane, um which is now next week, essentially. um And I do have the um Tatra Sky Marathon um on the way into CCC in Poland. So that's about four or five weeks, but it's like a good last race before CCC.
01:05:25
Speaker
But essentially from, yeah, from a couple weeks ago until CCC, my entire training will be built around CCC, like not around those other races. They're kind of on the way. So, um, I have some really big weeks like this week is one of my and look, cause last week essentially ended up having three
Heat Training Adjustments
01:05:43
Speaker
sessions. This week has no sessions, but I'm doing to be fair, if my body feels good, um, I'm doing four hours tomorrow, two hours, Wednesday, six hours, Thursday.
01:05:53
Speaker
So like, by Big back-to-backs and then still two long runs on the weekend. So like um my mileage weeks look like five longer runs and two days on the bike sort of deal. yeah So um yeah, training each week looks different now for me.
01:06:11
Speaker
I have some weeks where I'll add sessions in and they become intensity weeks and some weeks where I take the sessions out and they become mileage weeks. But again, all based on vibes and all.
01:06:22
Speaker
We've worked very well and I'm hoping that pays off in the long term. with And, oh, yeah, because I think last week taking out the heat training was a good call. Like in my head I really wanted seven solid weeks of heat training and I'm like, you know what, ah I need to give up a week of heat training here in order for my body to just survive the week.
01:06:40
Speaker
So yeah the main thing that helped me recover was not overdoing it on that front. um Because normally, like I did heat again today and I feel so much better. Like it's like back to, oh, yeah, no, this actually, even though I'm hot, it feels easy as opposed to, oh, my gosh, I'm dizzy. This doesn't feel good.
01:06:56
Speaker
um Yeah. right Yeah. Lots of listening to the body, really. um Yeah. You kind of have to do when you treat when you like running as much as I do. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's exciting. I think, yeah, like um you're already showing so much strength with your backup this weekend. And if you can continue to build those weeks, like I'm so excited to see what you can do at CCC.
01:07:19
Speaker
You and me both. I'm trying. i think I have an approach to this one, which I love. um And I think I've just had too many big races I've prepared for, for weeks and weeks and weeks on end. And then something's gone wrong.
01:07:31
Speaker
And it's like, that's just part of running. Things happen. Like I've been gluten before a world champs. I've obviously you get injured, things things happen. And so my approach to this one is going, I just want to absolutely adore the training block so much so that it doesn't really matter how the race goes.
01:07:48
Speaker
Knowing that that's also how I'm going to race the best anyway. Like, yeah it's like, let's get the best of both worlds here because if I'm really enjoying the day-to-day of my training,
01:07:59
Speaker
it's easy to do the training and you get fitter. And then it also is just like this whole um weight off the outcome in a way of like, I really want to show what I can do at CCC, but whether that happens this year or not, I'll still believe in what I can do, if that makes sense. so oh yeah, for sure. It's like trying to trying to have the training plan that keeps that belief in me, not the outcome that keeps the belief in some ways.
01:08:28
Speaker
Yeah. We'll see how that goes. It's going well so far. um um I'm actually excited for Brisbane now. I think it's going to test me because there's one thing getting through a 5K on fatigue legs and there's another thing getting through a two-hour race.
01:08:43
Speaker
um intensity of intensity that's quite runnable and fast and has a really long time do you have um like do you know what the fields are um not entirely sure I've been in chats with people um of what it's going to look like I'm really hoping Katinka is there um and I think if she's recovered enough from the flu um like she she's had a rough go like there's It's been going on for a long time.
01:09:14
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So um I'm really hoping she's there. I'm hoping Bridget comes. um and i don't remember Yeah, I'll let her say, but i'm not I think she's closer to saying no than yes. i Yeah. um Maddie O'Donnell, I think, will hopefully be there.
01:09:30
Speaker
um But in terms of others, like you anyone can come and that's the exciting thing um for these races of going well. um yeah, like anyone could come and I have to be right there ready to race whoever's on that start line. So I know also it's like because this race actually went really well for me last year, I feel like I then no matter who's on the start line, I get to chase my own ghost anyway because this time last year when I raced it, i can almost guarantee I wasn't in the shape to run 1758 or a sub
01:10:02
Speaker
So it's like I'll have more tired legs but more fitness. So let's see how that translates. But it's like I've got my own time to chase, which is fun to go.
01:10:14
Speaker
How much have I improved in a year or not improved because I had very fresh legs at that point. So we'll see. So you're not going to taper into it? ah No. I will have the day before will be easy, um but there'll be no other tapering of sorts. And I actually fly home. This is crazy.
01:10:34
Speaker
I suppose just how committed I am to the CCC block. I fly home on the day of the race so that I can get my long run done at home the next day. Oh my God. So it's it's a race fly home and run five hours the next day kind of deal.
01:10:50
Speaker
ah So, yeah, it's just another effort in the block, which does play into how I then race it, obviously, because I'm not there to destroy myself. um yeah I'm there to, again, get another training stimulus in a way. So, yeah, I'm excited for it, though, and that's the best way to be.
01:11:09
Speaker
So happy days. Yeah, it'll be fun. um Awesome. Awesome. Well, there anything popped up in running news that you've seen? that um Not really. Not that I've seen. Like I was sort of looking at, I think this could be like old news now, but I was looking at like the US mountain running champs, which is pretty interesting. And I think is the next – the vertical one coming up this weekend or arrow i think and the short and the short trail for them is broken arrow as well i think and yes that'll be really exciting to see actually um yeah the way they do it obviously like they're they're a very different training uh running climate in a way in terms of just the people in the depth and all those sorts of things but it's very cool to watch i'm also very intrigued
01:11:59
Speaker
Yeah. I wish we had something like that in Australia. Like it just, I don't know, just like more like emphasis on the national chance would be really cool. I think we're at the point where we're able to, um finally, like there's enough people now, but it's, there's, there's just still quite a few, a number of barriers.
01:12:20
Speaker
um And it, relies on having the right race in some ways but also the right communication around the race and like then as soon as you've got the right race and the right communication all it takes is us to actually get around it which is yeah I think fine but I think there's been a lot of things that make it hard to get around some of the races um like this year's national champs looked good but it was not a course that excited me I must admit no um and ah for this this is for the mountains and then we don't
01:12:52
Speaker
I suppose we do have some sort of championship somewhere for Ultra for a short trail, but I'm not sure. Oh, it was five peaks. Yeah. yeah Again, like in the scheme of the trail running calendar, slightly poorly timed and these sorts of things. yeah Hopefully at some point um we're moving towards that, but maybe next year, maybe next year we can like rally the troops and be like, everyone come to this race, please.
01:13:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think it'd be really good for the sport. but Yeah. Yeah. but she it's good And a cool event that I know you were following a little bit in some, like we've chatted a little bit about it, but we'll get into the results.
01:13:28
Speaker
and But just to start off the results, cool event that went down, Red Bull Race the Sun. This is something that intrigues me. I want to do it at some point. I remember watching um there was a team with Cecilia Mattis and Jessie on it last year um that they actually have a really cool YouTube video about now. So go watch that.
01:13:49
Speaker
um But Race the Sun is like ah wildly wild team relay with six people that have to cover 345 Ks starting in one spot, ending in another, but you have to beat the sunrise.
01:14:06
Speaker
I think that's how it works. So you start at sunrise one morning, like the time of the sunrise, and then you have to finish that 345 Ks before the sun rises the next day, which equates to having to cover 345 sub 4.10 per kilometre, which is not slow.
01:14:28
Speaker
um And there is like, so it's quite hilly. There's a 21k trail section that like two people have to do together all in one go. But the rest of the time it's a relay. And I love watching the tactics because often, especially towards the end, but I think even from the start, they might be changing runner every 500 metres.
01:14:46
Speaker
you're essentially doing 24 hours of two minute reps.
01:14:51
Speaker
So it's, and I think even at times, like there's been teams changing like every hundred metres or so trying to get the pace as high as possible to beat the sun at the end. um So for anyone interested, go, like YouTube has a has a cool video that just came out, but also just go and look into this race um and some of the socials around it and stuff. It's wild. I think this year four teams beat the sun um just.
01:15:15
Speaker
There was a Kiwi team, an old Kiwi team that won. from what I have gathered on socials. But it looks like the sort of thing, like I just imagine, just imagine like you me and Kate. we like I'm just like, we could get this band of women together to go do this. Yeah.
01:15:32
Speaker
So much fun. However, yeah and the hardest part for me would be that you are either running sub four minute pace or sitting in a car. So 24 hours. Yeah.
01:15:44
Speaker
it's like how to mess up the body in a short period of time oh my god you'd be so stiff after your hips still like can you like trying to rip sub four minute k's uh from midnight to six eight to five a.m or whenever it is like that period of time we'll all be delirious and it will be hilarious let's do it um Anyways, future endeavours. Go have a look at these people. It's very fun looking.
Event Highlights: Red Bull Race the Sun
01:16:13
Speaker
um But for some slightly more normal is events that were on this week, and close to home for me at least, for melbourne for Melbourneites, there was one of my favourites, the Surf Coast Trail Marathon.
01:16:24
Speaker
um That was one on the women's side by Natalie Rooks in 3 Hours 31. And Jade Bucklow was in second, three hours 45, and Adi Slilka in four hours four, in third.
01:16:37
Speaker
And in The Men, David Scott in first in, oh, three hours and 13 seconds. Damn. So close, David. um Then Tim Ivette in second, three hours 16, and Dave Bailey.
01:16:49
Speaker
Oh, Dave Bailey, the... ah forever popping up on these podiums, in third in three hours, 20. twenty ah The half marathon was run but was won by Irene Bracken in an hour, 52 on the women's and by Archie Fifoot in an hour, 28 on the men's.
01:17:06
Speaker
ah Then we did mention last week the race that James was a co or is a co race director, organiser for. That was the Albury Rangers race as part of their series that was won by Belinda Doré by quite a ways ah this was the long course she ran an hour I don't know the distance but she ran an hour 10 42 second was Ily Grigg in an hour 22 and Kerry Clayton in third in an hour 23 on the men's Sam Millington an hour 6 46 and then in second Nick Massara in an hour 7 21 so nice and close there
01:17:44
Speaker
And then third, Giles Smith in an hour 8.16. sixteen So top three very close in the long course there. ah And then other results of note, Cowan Trail Run, which I think must be in Canberra or around. Do you know where Cowan is, Jess? Yeah, it's um it's just a bit east, like out of the ACT border. So it's technically New South Wales. Technically New South Wales. Okay, nice.
01:18:13
Speaker
um Well, Cohen Marathon was on um and this, some cool results to see was on the women's side, Brittany Harrigan, who has won quite a number of the races around Canberra and Stromlo.
01:18:26
Speaker
ah She ah defended her win and ran a new course record of three hours 40 in the women's side, but pushing her the whole way was Alice McGushin, another very strong Aussie trail runner or Alice, it might be from the UK actually, so I but I'm pretty sure she lives in Oz.
01:18:45
Speaker
um Alice Magushin in three hours, 43, and then in third, Natasha Jacobs in four hours and nine. But then Brit and Alice were actually second and third outright.
01:18:57
Speaker
um So love that for the ladies. But in the men's, it was won by Michael Roga, who people may know as an Aussie Paralympian. in Didn't he go to the Paralympics for the 1500?
Race Results: Cowan Trail Run and Others
01:19:09
Speaker
He's run a fast marathon too,
01:19:11
Speaker
but Yeah, I think he might have been the one one of the ones that doubled and did 15 and marathon maybe. Wild. What a round. Love that. He's amazing. like Yeah.
01:19:23
Speaker
Well, he's doing a trail marathon, so I'm excited to see that. um Yeah, well, he was signed up for the 100K at Cozzy last year, but then he had to pull out for health reasons. But ah he's definitely interested in the trails, so hopefully we see him on the start line soon.
01:19:40
Speaker
Welcome, Michael. We love it. Please stay. Love it. Well, yeah, Michael Rogo got the win in three hours, 28. um which actually makes me really impressed again by Britt's run. Three hours 40, 12 minutes behind.
01:19:54
Speaker
That's 12 minutes, right? It is. 12 minutes behind Michael Roga in a marathon. That sounds like a but bloody good run to me. But and Thomas Allen in the men's was second in three hours 46 and Hayden Barlow third in three hours 48. So that was it, Cohen trail run.
01:20:11
Speaker
Oh, actually, I'm just scrolling down the results and I also noticed Toby Lang. He won the men's 12K ahead of Max Taylor. which is two names that we know very well. So Max Taylor raced Golden Trail last year and won, I just remember when he won, Donna Double followed by Buffalo 10K and he was in fine form. Haven't seen him for a while, but yeah, it looks like Toby won in forty seven twenty seven and then max Taylor was second in
01:20:40
Speaker
followed by John Winsbury in 51-55. um On the female side, Sarah King in one hour one, Wilma Hunecki in one hour six, and Jessie McLean in one hour seven in third was the women's podium. But there's some damn cool results.
01:20:55
Speaker
And then, Jess, you're quickly going to take us to Yandina and Perth. Yes, so we had the Yandina 50K, which is over in the Sunshine Coast.
01:21:06
Speaker
um And so we'll just cover the men's and women's podium in the 50K. I think there was also a couple of other distances, but the 50 being sort of the main race.
01:21:18
Speaker
ah So in the men, we had the day we had David Russell um in first place in 4 hours 18. ah Second place was Liam Thiernan in 4 hours 30 third was Michael Fenwick in 4 hours 47.
01:21:33
Speaker
And then in the women's we had first place Amber Roland, Roland said in 4 hours 52. Second was Buhar Bali in 5 hours 02 and third was Dominic Ryan in 5 hours 03.
01:21:50
Speaker
Nice and close there for second and third. I swear we called Buhar Bali out last week as on the podium. Yeah, I recognise that name. um So she seems to be on a tear up there right now.
01:22:03
Speaker
But then yeah also some well-known names over in Perth. Yeah, so we had another one of ah the Perth Trail Series. So Eagle and Child, that's – One of the more friendly courses um out around the John Forest National Park. So it's, I think it's about 21k with 400 metres of it. So it's a bit more of a faster one. It's a really beautiful loop though. um get some cool views of the city and like,
01:22:31
Speaker
There's some nice little sections where there's like waterfalls and stuff. Oh, nice. um Yeah, it's beautiful. And, yeah, we had the usual suspects out there. So um the overall winner in the women was Petra Deregin. So um she's still doing amazing um over on the trails. She won in one hour, 43. then...
01:22:54
Speaker
and then In second place, we had Chana Van Wyk in 1 hour 59. And then third was Kirsten Boost, who's another OG at the Perth Trail Series in She was third in two hours, 03. Nice. loving how much I'm coming to recognise these names just based off reading the results out.
01:23:21
Speaker
I hope I meet you all one day. This is great. Yeah. um And then in the men, we had Pierce Bresman in first place um in one hour, 34.07.
01:23:33
Speaker
And then second was Luke Hutcherson in 1 hour 34.45. So a bit of a close nice so race there. Ali Wilcox, he was there closely followed behind actually in 1 35.14. So definitely a close race between the top three. um Yeah, top three. Yeah.
01:23:55
Speaker
Yeah, that would have been fun because it's one of those courses where you can sort of see pretty far behind and in front. So it would have been a bit of bit of a tight race for those men. That makes you sort of painful. I don't know. Like being in front of those ones is actually so hard because you know you don't want to look back and like make them think you're looking for them, but also you really want to look back.
01:24:16
Speaker
Yeah. yeah yeah uh the joys awesome well congrats to all of those people everyone that we called out um some pretty cool results there's that was it was a big weekend there was like so many results there was like six other races I was trying to find results for um and yeah it just seems like we are I thought that it might like fizzle down in winter in terms of the the number of races each weekend and it definitely is not.
Upcoming Weekend Events
01:24:44
Speaker
um But coming up next weekend, we've got the hu bri Brisbane Valley Rail Trail Byron Rainforest Run, which sounds amazing.
01:24:56
Speaker
um Cape to Cape Ultra Marathon over in WA. Do you know that one at all, Jess? No, there's the, it must be different to the, mo like the Margs Ultra is the famous one that's on the Cape to Cape.
01:25:10
Speaker
Yeah, okay. This one it says it's from Augusta to Eagle Bay. Oh, it says the new Cape to Cape. um But it's got a 50-mile and a 100-mile race. say Oh, wow. 100-mile?
01:25:24
Speaker
Yeah. Because the Cape to Cape's only 120-something. Yeah, nice. well Interesting. Yeah, it's got a 50-mile, 100-mile. This is according to what I'm looking at, which is – oh part of the WA Ultra series. don't know. looks wild.
01:25:40
Speaker
um But also dead cow cow Dead Cow Gully Backyard Ultra. I feel like that's one of the more prominent Backyard Ultras. I can't remember who, what, Like it was one of the ones where they've run a very, very, very long time.
01:25:52
Speaker
um Untamed Border Run up in Queensland, Winter Trails of Manly Dam in New South Wales. My goodness, it just keeps going. Kayama Coastal Classic.
01:26:04
Speaker
That one actually is one that looks really pretty. Canberra, you have one, Canberra Trail Series. Tuggeranong Trot, love the name. Oh, yeah. Is that the Sri Chinmoye Series?
01:26:17
Speaker
Yeah, it is. Yeah. oh Yeah. I think I want to get amongst that. I'm just. do it. Yeah. A training session right there. um And Sri Chinmoy I love because they're really cheap events.
01:26:31
Speaker
um Yeah. I've always loved going to Sri Chinmoy for training runs because, yeah, yes they run really cool events. They're a really cool community and they do not cost the bank. So that's always. apparently after these ones in Canberra you get a veggie burger.
01:26:47
Speaker
Oh, in Melbourne it was always pancakes. Yeah. um At least back when I used to use them a lot, in even in the lead up to my first marathon back in like 2015, 16, I can remember I used Sari Chin Mui because they do off distances.
01:27:01
Speaker
Like they had like, I did a 10K, then a 15K, then a 21 and then a 30K as my like longest runs of the team. But then after every single one, they had pancakes. Yeah. Didn't help me as a celiac, but they were known their pancake breakfasts.
01:27:17
Speaker
um And then the only other one that I can find for next week is the Wincis Solstice Fun Run, which sounds fun in Portland in Vic, which would be a damn cool place to run. But I imagine at this time a year, quite windy and quite cold.
01:27:30
Speaker
Yeah. So some wild, wild weather.
Staying Healthy in Winter
01:27:35
Speaker
But what have you got coming up next week, Jess? Anything exciting? Or this week now? Not really. Nothing exciting, just the usual.
01:27:41
Speaker
um I'm sort of, yeah, hibernating at the moment. It's winter, just getting through training and, yeah, I don't know, just trying to stay happy and healthy. How good is the hibernation, though? It's actually kind of nice.
01:27:54
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like I've also become, after recent events with people missing races and getting the flu, I've also become slightly less inclined to leave the house. um yeah or to meet up with people or like all those sorts of things I'm like because even I'm just like I need just need to stay healthy like at this point and it feels like life will remain okay and good so um no I'm with you I'm in the to be fair this week is going to fly by for me honestly by the time you're doing four-hour run and then a six-hour run midweek like a six-hour run has into a nine-hour day
01:28:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's your whole day. Literally, like the day goes. It's a very cool way to spend a day, but I can guarantee on Thursday I'll be waking up, getting ready, getting – to be fair, I have everything packed the night before, but I drive to the mountain, I run, i come home and I go back to bed.
01:28:44
Speaker
There is nothing else. Nothing else the day. But finally, this is my one week with no races, thankfully. Yeah.
01:28:55
Speaker
I'm kind of just looking forward to a normal weekend um at home before getting off to Brisbane next weekend and getting a small break from our Melbourne winter, um which I will i will take at this point.
01:29:10
Speaker
But what a fun episode.
Conclusion
01:29:11
Speaker
I hope everyone has enjoyed that. This is probably a ah good one for the ladies out there, the lady trail round, and for all the men which support ladies, which is every single one of you, hopefully.
01:29:21
Speaker
So thank you for listening. I hope you have equally enjoyed our chat today. and This has been episode 62 the Peak Pursuits podcast. If you did enjoy it, please leave ratings and reviews. We would absolutely love that. It really helps.
01:29:37
Speaker
So thank you do. And otherwise, we will chat to you next week. Thanks, guys.