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"Dustings" 2-25: Storm Equipment Contractor Survey Results Part 2
514 Plays15 days ago
The guys welcome Jordan Smith of Storm Equipment back to the show to take us through Part 2 of the Storm Equipment Contractor Survey results
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
Thank you.
00:00:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
Here we go, Snow Jobs Nation. We are back bringing you another dustings episode of the Snow Jobs podcast. ah Jeremy, how are we, buddy?
00:00:42
RICK JAMES
You're doing really good. How about you?
00:00:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, you know how i you know how I am.
00:00:44
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:00:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
I'm sick, so I feel like crap, but we're going roll with this.
00:00:47
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
Experiences on TV and Public Reception
00:00:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
So we got Steve and Jeremy, and if we're doing a dustings, we all know who we got with us.
00:00:49
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:00:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mr. Jordan Smith of Storm Equipment is with us.
00:00:59
RICK JAMES
but
00:01:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
How are you, Jordan?
00:01:02
Jordan Smith
I'm good, guys. How are you?
00:01:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
Doing good.
00:01:04
Jordan Smith
Besides sick.
00:01:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
Doing good. dad well We're pushing through. We're going to keep pushing.
00:01:09
Jordan Smith
You're a trooper.
00:01:09
RICK JAMES
Oh, you've been? It's been a while. Good.
00:01:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:01:12
Jordan Smith
Has, man.
00:01:12
RICK JAMES
Anything new?
00:01:12
Jordan Smith
Been really good. Yeah, it's, uh...
00:01:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's too busy for us. It's too busy.
00:01:15
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:01:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
but
00:01:16
Jordan Smith
alan you You guys aren't exactly not busy either. we we've We've had this little thing called storm chasing that's been eating up a lot of time.
00:01:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
A but ah yeah a little bit. little bit.
00:01:24
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:01:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
little bit.
00:01:24
Jordan Smith
turns out Turns out being part of a TV show with four episodes releasing four weeks in row is lot of work.
00:01:30
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:01:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's a, yeah, yeah.
00:01:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's a lot of work. It seems to be a lot of work in the last second to 24 hours out.
00:01:36
Jordan Smith
Well, yeah. You know, when you go back to back to back. Yeah. Back to back to back to back.
00:01:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah It's crazy.
00:01:41
Jordan Smith
It's fun, though.
00:01:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, it's crazy, but it's been well received.
00:01:42
Jordan Smith
It's fun.
00:01:43
RICK JAMES
That's great.
00:01:44
RICK JAMES
That's
00:01:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
Everybody seems very happy about it.
00:01:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
So, you know, ah we're getting, I don't know about you, but we're getting a lot of DMS about asking, Hey, how do we get on stage season two?
00:01:53
Jordan Smith
You know, the coolest part is I'm not surprised by the industry traction.
00:01:54
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:01:58
Jordan Smith
Obviously, you know, you guys have ah a huge following that helps. We have a good following that helps. Our networks have good followings that helps get traction with the industry. But what I've been really excited and encouraged by It's just the amount of random people that have approached me and said, hey, I saw your TV show because they see my truck running around with the storm logo on it. They're like, oh, I recognize that. And I've had people at the gym tell me they've watched and thought it was cool.
00:02:23
Jordan Smith
um My kids last weekend at football had a guy come up to the truck and and they were sitting in there playing games in there but between games because it was hot out. And they're like, hey, ah does your dad own storm equipment?
00:02:37
Jordan Smith
And I said, yeah. I said, oh, tell him I really like his TV show. it's really cool. Just a random guy. Like it's, that's pretty cool.
00:02:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
Nice. That's really, well, I mean, you are in the snow belt.
00:02:43
Jordan Smith
Pretty cool that we're getting some of that reach.
00:02:43
RICK JAMES
That was
00:02:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
So, I mean, that, that is a lot, not lately, but normally you are in the snow belt.
00:02:46
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:02:49
RICK JAMES
good.
00:02:50
The SnowJobs Podcast
A lot of people like snow.
00:02:50
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:02:50
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Yeah. So no, I'm encouraged by that because that was one of the big missions.
00:02:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's cool though.
00:02:56
Jordan Smith
Obviously we want to entertain and educate the industry, but branching outside is is a big part of this. And I think we're we're starting to get the target on that and we're just getting started. So that's really exciting.
00:03:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
Nice. The toughest target audience, if you want to say sample audience of of possible nasty reviews that these guys will find any problem with anything. They all were blown away by the first couple episodes.
00:03:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
So they had nothing negative to say, which is a first in the history of of those guys. So it's been good.
00:03:24
Jordan Smith
That's awesome.
00:03:25
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, it's been very well received. a lot of well wishes and lot of people asking how do they go about submitting their company to be on possibly season two.
00:03:33
Jordan Smith
I've had a lot of people ask that too.
00:03:34
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:03:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:03:37
Jordan Smith
got some ideas. You had a pretty awesome idea a couple weeks ago that I'm intrigued by.
00:03:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
American Idol.
00:03:42
Jordan Smith
American Idol style, baby.
00:03:43
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:03:43
Jordan Smith
Get those audition tapes rolling in.
00:03:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
it I love it.
00:03:45
Jordan Smith
It's a great idea.
00:03:46
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:03:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
That'd be fun. i mean, you'd have fun with your ah with your team and your company promoting, you know, that you put your best foot forward on a video.
00:03:48
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:03:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
I think that would be ah actually pretty cool. And it'd be yeah yeah at the very least, even if you don't get picked, still be a good team building exercise.
00:04:02
Jordan Smith
Absolutely.
00:04:02
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:04:02
Jordan Smith
I think it'd be a lot of fun for for us and for the industry and it it it'll it'll help show us how many people actually ah want to do this. you know Because when we launch this thing, I'm like, I wonder if these companies are going to be excited to be on here, if they're going to be annoyed by it.
00:04:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:04:12
RICK JAMES
right. Yep. Yep.
00:04:16
Jordan Smith
you know it's <unk>s It's not a great time to have a bunch of extra work thrown on your plate is during a snowstorm. right So it's been
00:04:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah Yeah. Everybody we've had on after the fact, after their episode dropped has been very supportive and said that I make sure I asked that question. Did this make your, your lives more difficult during these storms? And they were 100%.
00:04:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
one hundred percent Everybody said, no, not at all.
00:04:37
Jordan Smith
Yep. I've heard the same feedback.
00:04:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
So I'm great.
00:04:38
RICK JAMES
ye
00:04:39
Jordan Smith
That's that's that's awesome.
00:04:39
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:04:40
Jordan Smith
But yeah, no, it's cool that you know you know you know you know you're doing something right when people are asking what what comes next. They're not asking when is it over.
00:04:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:04:47
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:04:48
Jordan Smith
They're asking what comes next. So that's cool.
00:04:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Industry Survey and Technological Adoption
00:04:52
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:04:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
So what are we doing today? What comes next?
00:04:54
Jordan Smith
What comes next for this is, so last time we we, obviously just to recap for those that didn't listen to the last dustings in, I think it was March or April. um Storm Equipment does a survey every year, industry survey. We try to collect data on the industry.
00:05:09
Jordan Smith
You know, everything we do at Storm is about trying to help set the future standard in snow. And the only way we can do that effectively is to hear what people think and what they have to say and what they're up to. So first ah first recap was just kind of who are these people? Who filled out the survey?
00:05:24
Jordan Smith
Where are they from? What kind of companies do they have? And what are some of their main challenge areas? So kind of looking at the cross section of where we're at now. So today I want to shift to ah sort of future casting and looking at what people think the next three to five years in our industry looks like and what they want to see.
00:05:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
I like the crystal ball thing. well Let's do it. Let's do it.
00:05:47
Jordan Smith
so So kind of in the same theme as the last episode, let's just start with, we we won't go through all like who these people are, but let's just start with some stats on some of the technology and some of the advancement.
00:06:02
Jordan Smith
ah that's happened in the industry, like how how they've adopted it, right?
00:06:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
Okay.
00:06:05
Jordan Smith
So the first one was job software. I think it's hard to say job software is new. It's been around for a long time.
00:06:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:06:12
Jordan Smith
ah But, you know, i was still surprised to see that that only 60% of the companies that filled out the survey are using some kind of job software right now.
00:06:12
RICK JAMES
Same.
00:06:21
Jordan Smith
I would thought it would have been more like 90%.
00:06:21
RICK JAMES
really
00:06:24
RICK JAMES
same
00:06:24
Jordan Smith
Uh, but it's yeah, 60 is what is what came out of the survey. And I checked through the data to make sure there wasn't stuff missing. And there's just a bunch of companies still, you still using paper dispatch.
00:06:36
Jordan Smith
So that is, that is still a thing. And I think part of that's just cause we had a decent number of companies with one to five employees and, and
00:06:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's what I was going to say. Didn't in the last episode, you gave that stat where most companies are what, like five or 10 pieces of equipment or less.
00:06:51
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Yep. So there's smaller owner operator types and there's less, obviously less benefits to software with those size companies.
00:06:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:06:57
Jordan Smith
So that's probably driving some of that stat.
00:06:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm hmm.
00:07:00
Jordan Smith
um But that's what that was. ah The next one was ah like procured weather services. So not just like weather.gov or weather.com, like actual, like true weather, you know,
00:07:12
Jordan Smith
weather pros at any of those more, uh, uh, catered to the snow industry type weather services. And that was 65%. So there's actually a higher percentage of people using weather service, uh, than there was people using software, which again, that surprised me a little bit, but that's cool to see.
00:07:29
Jordan Smith
I think part of that just has to do with the price and the, uh, ease of implementation on weather versus software.
00:07:29
RICK JAMES
Okay,
00:07:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, 100%. I think so.
00:07:35
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:07:36
The SnowJobs Podcast
i think so
00:07:38
Jordan Smith
Next one was fleet tracking and telematics. So that'd be like your you know Verizon Connect or all those different services that you can put tracking units in your trucks and your loaders and your trailers and all that kind of stuff. And that was just over 25% of companies using that.
00:07:55
Jordan Smith
Next is smart connected products. So that's going to be like your Hilltip, your VSI, your Cameon. um I know Douglas is has something that came out for a tracking salter.
00:08:06
Jordan Smith
I know Boss just had their VBX Plus come out, which has material tracking and 15% of companies are using some kind of smart connected product.
00:08:10
RICK JAMES
right. Yeah.
00:08:14
The SnowJobs Podcast
no I think you definitely see that go up.
00:08:16
Jordan Smith
And then the last... Yeah, I think so too. And those are more recent products. So, you know, compared to weather and software, which has been around for more than a decade, the smart connected products are really in the last three or four years.
00:08:27
Jordan Smith
I think, I think VSI might've been one of the first to release a smart connected product.
00:08:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:08:28
RICK JAMES
right
00:08:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
I think you were. i think you were.
00:08:33
Jordan Smith
Yeah. And that was in 2020. So that's only been five years. And then the last thing, this is the most recent tech, at least in our industry, and that's onsite weather monitoring. So that'd be like your robotics type weather monitoring cameras.
00:08:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm. Yep.
00:08:46
RICK JAMES
Cameras.
00:08:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
That'll
00:08:47
Jordan Smith
And that was 10% of companies that are using that type of technology.
00:08:51
The SnowJobs Podcast
go up, too.
00:08:52
RICK JAMES
that was going to be lot.
00:08:52
Jordan Smith
I think that will as well. So that's kind of the the cross section of who we're talking about here and and just a talking point that came out of that because not only did we ask them what they're using, we also asked for their opinion on how it helps them.
00:09:06
Jordan Smith
And there was actually ah quite a bit of feedback that they think the stuff is cool, but that they don't know if they're getting the most out of it because there' are just so many things. there's there's There's so many features in the software they're not using. There's so many features in the in the weather service they're not using.
00:09:24
Jordan Smith
um I know I can speak from my own experience with telematics. We used Samsara for a couple of years in our business and the data was super cool. But you almost need a full time person just to like deal with the data to get a lot out of it because it's so in depth.
00:09:37
RICK JAMES
right.
00:09:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:09:39
Jordan Smith
And I
00:09:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
And there's no way to tailor that. Is there any way to tailor that? Like to only give you what you actually want or it just keeps bombarding.
00:09:45
Jordan Smith
i think I think there is. i just don't know that people have or take the time to do it.
00:09:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:51
RICK JAMES
right
00:09:51
Jordan Smith
So kind of one of the notes I had here is like, is there tech fatigue that's happening in our industry?
Insurance Challenges and Solutions
00:09:56
Jordan Smith
And, and you know, from my experience, to be honest, and this is a reflection on one of my own efforts is like with our smart connected sprayers of VSI, when they came out, people said, oh these are really cool.
00:10:06
Jordan Smith
We love it. Five years later, they're like, you know, simpler might be better, which it seems backwards almost, true but they would almost like to see it be simpler and not have to have a separate app. Like,
00:10:16
RICK JAMES
Right.
00:10:17
Jordan Smith
It seems like in today's society, you have to download an app for everything. Like and I got a new TV in my basement. I need an app to program it. I got to download an app and sign up for an app to program the TV. Like, just give me a remote. Let me turn it on.
00:10:27
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:10:28
RICK JAMES
right
00:10:28
Jordan Smith
So maybe some tech fatigue happening. And then there was a bunch of comments saying, like, I wish there was a way. that I could integrate my job tracking software with my weather service, with my fleet tracking and my smart connected products and my weather monitoring all into one dashboard so that you don't have to log into five separate things to do your work.
00:10:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:10:47
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:10:47
RICK JAMES
Right. Yeah. yeah
00:10:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
That'd be nice.
00:10:49
Jordan Smith
So maybe that's something, you know, just from a big picture standpoint that ah is is good for OEMs or or people that are developing products to consider. I know that we've had that same discussion with Storm Vision at at Storm is like, it's cool that it has an app and it works really well, but it's just a whole nother app you have to use.
00:10:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:11:08
Jordan Smith
Like, is there a way we can simplify this further so that you don't have to have a separate app to run it? Like, Can we just put lights on the on the box of the plow so it's red or green or yellow based on if your plow is angled at the right angle or whatever, so you don't have to have an app, right?
00:11:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
hu
00:11:23
Jordan Smith
So it sounds backwards from a technology standpoint, but I think the feedback we're seeing is people think it's cool, but they don't necessarily know that they're getting the most out of it because there's just too many apps and too many things to get distracted by.
00:11:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep. And one more thing to go wrong, possibly.
00:11:39
Jordan Smith
Right. Right. So I pulled, ah kind of like we did last time, I pulled a few quotes out. People enjoyed that. I had a number of texts after last episode, like, hey, thanks for using my quote.
00:11:51
Jordan Smith
So we'll do that again because it was kind of fun for for people that listen.
00:11:53
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:11:54
Jordan Smith
and
00:11:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep. That was great.
00:11:55
Jordan Smith
and And so just a few of the quotes. There's no real hard hitters this time, but pulled a few out. ah First comment is, i don't love the complexity of the software we have to use, but we couldn't survive a slip and fall claim without GPS photos and other tracking. Simple as that.
00:12:11
Jordan Smith
So pretty simple there. But like this guy basically said, like, I feel like our software is too complicated, but, you know, can't live without it. We have to have that stuff.
00:12:19
RICK JAMES
We need it. Yeah, definitely.
00:12:21
Jordan Smith
Yep.
00:12:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
Do you?
00:12:22
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:12:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
I don't know. I mean, at least here, if somebody slips and falls, you can document the piss out of everything and present it to the insurance company. They're still not fighting it.
00:12:31
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:12:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
They're settling. They're taking your information. They're throwing it into the garbage.
00:12:32
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:12:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
And unless you are super negligent and you need that to defend yourself against holy crap negligence, they're not using it. They're not fighting any lawsuits. So they're just dinging your insurance. They're dropping you or whatever.
00:12:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
And all that documentation and and record keeping is not being used how it should be to protect you.
00:12:52
Jordan Smith
I actually completely agree with that, Steve.
00:12:53
RICK JAMES
He's like, yes.
00:12:54
Jordan Smith
And that, you know, we, we did talk a little bit in the last episode about insurance and how that's been a challenge. or That was one of the big challenge takeaways from, from people in the survey, ah because you're right. Uh, the insurance companies don't want to fight claims.
00:13:07
Jordan Smith
They are just settling and, and that is making some of the data we have irrelevant.
00:13:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:13:12
Jordan Smith
Uh, we had one a couple of years ago where we had all the documentation, someone slipped and fell on a dry sidewalk. Um,
00:13:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:13:19
Jordan Smith
And it didn't matter that we had photos and GPS. They still settled anyway, because it was easier.
00:13:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
Ridiculous.
00:13:24
Jordan Smith
It was like 13 grand.
00:13:25
The SnowJobs Podcast
Criminal.
00:13:26
Jordan Smith
you know it wasn't a lot of money, but it was 40 degrees out too.
00:13:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
Still, though, it's the principle.
00:13:29
RICK JAMES
no 13 grand.
00:13:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like,
00:13:31
RICK JAMES
Jesus.
00:13:31
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:13:32
Jordan Smith
yeah
00:13:33
RICK JAMES
That's
00:13:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
that's ridiculous. Yeah.
00:13:34
Jordan Smith
that crazy? um
00:13:36
RICK JAMES
terrible.
00:13:38
Jordan Smith
Next quote is, we track everything, time on site, photos, blade time, and salt output. It's not micromanagement. It is protection. So kind of in that same theme saying like they feel like they need to track everything because if they don't, they don't feel like they're protected. And again, I think it's kind of that same discussion, right?
00:13:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, it's basically.
00:13:57
Jordan Smith
I think people feel that way, but but maybe...
00:13:58
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:13:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, I mean, that that's cool. if That gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling. I just don't know if it's all worth it to do it because they're not going to use it. But if it makes you feel better, if you think that one day you could end up in court and you want to have your T's crossed, eyes dotted to the umpteenth degree, then God bless you. Do it.
00:14:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
you know Knock it out all day long.
00:14:16
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:14:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
I mean, I do it. I'm i'm kind of a I know they're not going to use it. I still document. I still document the crap out of everything, even though I know they're not going to use it because God forbid we get that one thing where somebody's claiming we did something really bad.
00:14:31
The SnowJobs Podcast
You know, we might have to we might need all that to defend ourselves. So I'm just saying, know, I do it. I get it. I get why people do it. But don't think you're doing it because the insurance companies are going to fight this stuff.
00:14:42
Jordan Smith
right
00:14:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
We had a guy on the show. We had an insurance guy that said flat out like, no, we're not fighting anything. We're settling everything.
00:14:49
Jordan Smith
Yeah, I think that's, to be honest, that it it might be the biggest issue in our industry.
00:14:49
RICK JAMES
Oh, yeah.
00:14:51
The SnowJobs Podcast
so
00:14:52
RICK JAMES
Todd Dickerson.
00:14:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:14:56
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:14:56
Jordan Smith
And and I know it came up at the Storks event.
00:14:58
Jordan Smith
um
00:15:01
Jordan Smith
Someone brought it up at the Storks event about insurance. I think it was on one of the panels that I was part of. And the the subject of ah captive insurance came up, like, can we just get the best companies in a pool and create our own insurance pool?
00:15:15
RICK JAMES
oh ah dare
00:15:16
Jordan Smith
And shortly after that, Lucas straight texted me. He's like, hey, we should talk about that capital thing because i think we can make that happen. And he's probably right.
00:15:22
Jordan Smith
It probably is possible.
00:15:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:15:23
RICK JAMES
right
00:15:23
Jordan Smith
You just need a big enough pool of capital to make it happen.
00:15:23
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:15:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:15:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
You do.
00:15:27
RICK JAMES
Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
Because basically all you're doing, you're self-insuring.
00:15:28
RICK JAMES
I've heard of that for years.
Automation and Technological Complexity
00:15:30
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:15:31
The SnowJobs Podcast
So, I mean, yeah, it's, you gotta be real careful who you let in though.
00:15:31
Jordan Smith
Exactly.
00:15:35
Jordan Smith
Yep.
00:15:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's the other thing, you know, like you got a deep dive on companies like, yeah, this company is really good. But then you find out they're subbing out, you know, 40% of their work, you know, at 10% of the contract value that could be, that could eat up that money real quick.
00:15:50
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Yep. Totally.
00:15:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
I think that's the only way, unless the government steps in, which let's face it, that, that is just not going to happen. The government could, what's that, Jay?
00:15:56
RICK JAMES
That's never going to happen. That's never going to happen.
00:15:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
No, I think the government could give two shits about snow.
00:16:00
RICK JAMES
They'll just make it worse. they'll They'll make it worse.
00:16:05
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:16:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
100%. they can give two shits about snow. They don't, they're not going to regulate insurance companies unless it's going to hit the evening news. And let's face it, it's not with snow. It's not going to unless none of us show up and an entire, you know, state is snowed in, it's never going to make the evening news.
00:16:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
So they don't, they're not going to regulate anything. And we have really nobody lobbying for us any either, you know, in government. So it's, uh,
00:16:27
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:16:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's tough. i don't i don't I don't think they're going anywhere, though. I don't think that i don't think we're getting any regulation from ah from the state to help us out. but
00:16:36
Jordan Smith
Nope.
00:16:36
The SnowJobs Podcast
At least not here.
00:16:36
Jordan Smith
It's going to have to be grassroots if it's going to happen.
00:16:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, 100%.
00:16:42
Jordan Smith
So then last quote almost certainly had to have been Jeremy, but it wasn't. um It says, ah on-site weather tech and weather services are cool, but in a seven-mile town, I can look out the window or just use my weather rock.
00:16:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
True. We've sold a lot of them.
00:16:58
RICK JAMES
wasn't me, but it makes sense. make sense
00:17:01
Jordan Smith
So so you're always going to have that you're always going to have that use case where people work in a very small area or they're a very small company where some of this tech is just overkill, right?
00:17:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
That is true.
00:17:10
Jordan Smith
They don't necessarily benefit from it.
00:17:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:17:12
Jordan Smith
And and that's why you're never going have 100% adoption on on anything. Right.
00:17:16
RICK JAMES
I mean, all this tech is great. All this great stuff where it gives us great data and all that fun stuff. I mean, do we need it all? Obviously, we probably don't, but it's nice to have it like just for a backup or whatever, you know, but you're paying a lot for it.
00:17:32
RICK JAMES
So you really don't want to use it a backup. You want to use it and, you know, stand by it. So it's just,
00:17:36
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:17:37
Jordan Smith
I think that's part of the discussion and it's probably a gap area and our industry is like, do do do we really know the ah ROI on some of this stuff? Like I'm sure some companies do, but like, I think a lot of it comes down to, can I afford it? Yes or no. If I can afford it, I'm going to do it. But I don't know if everyone, if people, if a lot of people even know if they're getting a return on that investment or if it's just something cool to have.
00:18:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, I think it goes to your first episode of this with this, that you know, the the makeup of the companies that are taking the survey that there's a lot of smaller companies, a lot of, you know, 10 employees or less companies for those companies. Costs have never been higher.
00:18:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
You know, liability has never been bigger. They don't have, ah you know, margins have never been smaller because our increased costs and the customer can't really pay more. And if you do charge the customer what you need to, they're going to find somebody else.
00:18:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
So for those companies that it's tough, like who can afford tech? You know that we've, we haven't, we haven't needed tech in 15, 16 years. You know, we've been doing it without it all this time, just fine.
00:18:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
Now I got to pay for tech that, I don't know. I just think that's I don't think it's necessarily tech fatigue. I think it's more tech fear. um
00:18:47
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:18:48
The SnowJobs Podcast
Guys have been doing it a while. Don't know the capabilities. It's one more thing to put on a truck or a piece of equipment that can break. You know, if you start relying on it, I don't know. I'm um my tech ends with weather reporting and the side cameras.
00:18:57
Jordan Smith
but
00:19:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's as much as I'm going to do.
00:19:04
Jordan Smith
Well, you know, for those that were at Storks too, on the panel discussion, um you know, Todd from Top Dog, we were asking about software. He's like, yeah, we use notepads and paper.
00:19:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's it.
00:19:16
Jordan Smith
you know that's a that's a big That's a big company.
00:19:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yellow number one pad.
00:19:16
RICK JAMES
Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
but That's it.
00:19:19
Jordan Smith
That's a big company.
00:19:20
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:19:21
Jordan Smith
so
00:19:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's it.
00:19:22
RICK JAMES
Well, the deal, I've had multiple people ask me, I mean, quite a few, about a certain brand of something we use. And they're like, should I get one? I'm like, I said, yeah. I said, it's great piece of equipment. It works fantastic.
00:19:36
RICK JAMES
It's got a big price tag. I don't dog the equipment, but I said, if you're not going to use all of the tech and everything included in it, then mean it's probably not worth you getting that.
00:19:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sure. How was intended.
00:19:46
RICK JAMES
And I've got a lot of backlash from the company saying you're telling people not to buy myself. i like got I'm not. I'm telling them if they're not going to use all the... I'm just trying to be you know be smart about it. If you're not going to use all...
00:19:57
RICK JAMES
If you don't need all that tech, probably buy something cheaper that's go to work the same.
00:20:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
Well, you can be mad all you want.
00:20:02
RICK JAMES
but Great
00:20:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like they can be mad at us all they want. all they want But if we start pushing a product that people may not need, then we lose our credibility. So I think you're doing your due diligence saying, hey, listen, it's a great product.
00:20:12
RICK JAMES
product. and i
00:20:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's fucking awesome.
00:20:15
RICK JAMES
great trial
00:20:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
If you can afford this much money for that product, then grab it if you're going to use it as it's intended, as it's made.
00:20:16
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:20:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
But if you're not going to use every feature, if you're just going to still use it for the basic, yeah there's other ah avenues to go that save you money.
00:20:28
RICK JAMES
i mean, maybe you'll get there down the road, but right now, you're not going use it all, maybe don't don't spend it on it.
00:20:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:20:35
RICK JAMES
there
00:20:36
Jordan Smith
Well, yeah.
00:20:36
RICK JAMES
But I'm not dogging any equipment.
00:20:37
Jordan Smith
and and
00:20:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
i don't i I got no problem with that. I think that's an honest ah i think that's an honest upfront assessment
00:20:45
Jordan Smith
Yep. Well, and, you know, again, reflecting on some of the stuff I've i've done personally, like ah there are some customers who use all the VSI features, but 80% of them, they just want to go out and spray and they don't care about the tracking. They don't care about,
00:21:02
Jordan Smith
The geofencing, they don't care about all the extra stuff. They just want to go out and hit a button and spray.
00:21:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
ye
00:21:06
Jordan Smith
And that's totally fine. So what that tells me is that there's demand in the market for simplicity. Like they just want it to work every time. They want it to be simple. They want to put anyone in the seat. They can hit a button and go. And, you know, it doesn't mean that you don't maybe offer a higher end version for people that do want all the features and tracking, but it it does tell me that there's still a strong demand in the market for simplicity.
00:21:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
100%. I agree with that.
00:21:31
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:21:31
Jordan Smith
So next thing on the survey was more open-ended, more of more of like an essay type question.
00:21:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
Keep it simple.
00:21:39
Jordan Smith
Essentially, we we just asked, what technology areas do you feel do drive great value or would drive great value for your business and why?
00:21:49
Jordan Smith
And we don't have time to go through all of them because there was way too many responses and way too many variation in the responses. But the one that came out as the most prominent um was that people would love to see sidewalk equipment go autonomous or manless.
00:22:06
Jordan Smith
So they they want to see the ability to clear sidewalks without having to have an operator on the machine. So like a a autonomous snow raider or an autonomous snow blower or something of that nature.
00:22:20
Jordan Smith
what do you What do you guys think about that concept?
00:22:23
RICK JAMES
so i would i would I would love that, to be honest. We tried getting on, I think it was left hand. Was that what it was?
00:22:31
Jordan Smith
Left hand robotics, yup.
00:22:31
RICK JAMES
Left hand? Yeah, we tried getting in with them us us and putts year-round, probably four or five years ago. i'm trying to But it didn't work out. But just as we had a campus, we thought what it would work out and be good.
00:22:44
RICK JAMES
trial run for it but never never happened but i don't know you know those guys those guys are guys are hard to get i mean i i mean everybody's hard to get nowadays but sidewalk guys are really hard for us you know for us to get up here and stuff
Tracking Productivity and Data Utilization
00:22:57
RICK JAMES
and i'd i i'd love to see it to be honest i'd love to see it
00:23:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
<unk>
00:23:03
Jordan Smith
I think the, I'm not a tech guy, but i think the technology to do it probably exists. I think it's, I think what, I don't know left hand's entire story. I know that they ended up selling their technology to a bigger company and it kind of fizzled out from there, got used in the green space or something like that. But yeah,
00:23:23
Jordan Smith
It's it like the the constant challenge in the snow industry is it's not that big compared to, you know, you think about think about self-driving cars.
00:23:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yes, it's a drop in the bucket.
00:23:30
Jordan Smith
You know, I have a vehicle that drives itself everywhere and it it works basically perfectly, but there's way more money in consumer products like self-driving cars than there is in the snow industry just because of the size of the industry.
00:23:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sure.
00:23:42
Jordan Smith
So while I agree, I think it would be great.
00:23:42
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:23:45
Jordan Smith
i think it's going to be hard to get a company to invest enough money in autonomy dedicated to snow when it's just not, you know, they they have to be able to sell 10,000 of these things to pay off the investment.
00:23:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:23:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
not even the entire country. You're talking about half the country that might need these things, half the states.
00:23:59
Jordan Smith
Right. Right.
00:24:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
I don't think that's a big enough sample, audience. Like, for example, when DEF came to all the diesel engines, they wouldn't even exempt. All the manufacturers would not even build the engines. The the emergency services couldn't get exemptions because they said it's not a you're not a big enough sample, ah you know, basically market for us. we're You know, we're we're talking 20 billion machines that we're putting out and you guys are buying 100,000.
00:24:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
You know, we're not goingnna we're not going to make a special design just for emergency services.
00:24:24
Jordan Smith
Yep. yep
00:24:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
So I think it's the same with the automation for sidewalks. I just don't i don't think there's enough ah ROI out there. Even if everybody in the snow industry bought it, imagine how expensive that tech is to prove and to to get off the ground.
00:24:42
Jordan Smith
Well, yeah, and and snow is obviously just inherently much more complex and much more varied than than grass.
00:24:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
I don't know.
00:24:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:24:48
Jordan Smith
The reason there's so many robotic mowers that are out there, and those are, i mean, there's tons of robotic mowers in in service right now, as we said.
00:24:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
Hell yeah.
00:24:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:24:54
Jordan Smith
um But grass is pretty consistent. You know, you you set up a mowing pattern, you mow it every time. um And with the exception of maybe wet grass versus dry grass, it's pretty much the same every time. Whereas with snow, it could be six inches of concrete.
00:25:07
Jordan Smith
It could be an inch of ice. It could be anywhere in between. and Those conditions all require a different level of speed and traction and effort and everything else. Right.
00:25:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:25:18
Jordan Smith
And humans can adapt to that really quickly. and And automation has more challenges that even, even the self-driving cars like my car, ah when it's snowing, it just says not available. Can't do it. You know?
00:25:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
Really?
00:25:30
Jordan Smith
Yeah. It does.
00:25:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
and won't It won't drive you in the snow?
00:25:32
Jordan Smith
Not, not like a light dusting or something. It might, but if it's a, if there's any depth of snow and it feels any slippage or resistance on the wheels, it'll just say it's not available.
00:25:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
Interesting.
00:25:42
RICK JAMES
True. Yeah.
00:25:44
RICK JAMES
oh
00:25:44
Jordan Smith
It's ah snow is ah snow is a ah challenging thing because it's so inconsistent, right?
00:25:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
Did not know that.
00:25:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, 100%.
00:25:49
RICK JAMES
sure
00:25:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, yeah.
00:25:50
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:25:50
Jordan Smith
um That being said, i do think if someone can develop it and make it work for a reasonable price, I do think it would be insanely popular. i mean, based on the responses, there was there was over over a hundred responses specifically referenced autonomy on sidewalks.
00:26:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
oh yeah
00:26:06
Jordan Smith
And that wasn't prompted. Like we didn't say, here's one option to pick. Like that people just volunteered that as something they really want.
00:26:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
You set up an SSV or a ah ah Snow Raider mag and you set it up right with all the trimmings. You're looking at $30,000. So, I mean, if that's for man, we still got to put somebody on there and pay them pay for gas and stuff.
00:26:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
If you can put somebody in an, un you know, you can put an unmanned ah sidewalk machine out there for like, even I'd venture to say under 50, like 45 or so. And it was, you had a great warranty. Yeah.
00:26:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like I'm talking 10 years because let's face it, snow no equipment is going to get shot. You you got the state. what if What if that little poor little guy that automated whatever it is riding along the sidewalk on the main the main highway there and one of the DOT plows comes by and dust that poor bastard with all that salt water and stuff.
00:26:54
RICK JAMES
There is a...
00:26:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like that thing shot.
00:26:59
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:27:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
but
00:27:00
RICK JAMES
this
00:27:00
Jordan Smith
Yeah, totally.
00:27:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's tough. It's tough to do that.
00:27:04
Jordan Smith
So some some of the feedback that came along with that, too, is just, um you know, like we we have some experience. Obviously, we were like one of the first companies to experiment with autonomy and snow. We bought that at Teleo remote operated semi-autonomous.
00:27:22
Jordan Smith
loader and we've had that thing for gosh almost three years now and it's gotten better but it's i mean it's nowhere near nowhere near ready to go into service but the exact same product is being used in quarries and at concrete plants and in barges all over the world with great success because it's very consistent environment there's no hazards there's no pedestrians there's no wheel slippage like
00:27:39
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:27:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:27:46
Jordan Smith
you know So we get a snowplow in this thing. We start running that in the snow and it goes into error mode all the time. It's because the wheels start s slipping sideways. And when the algorithm says you should be going in this straight line and you end up over here, it doesn't like it. It shuts it off because it's dangerous. right so So I do think it's a ways off.
00:28:02
Jordan Smith
But a lot of the feedback was, ah let's just go to some of the quotes here. One of the quotes was manless machines. Yeah, for sidewalks, maybe. But let's not pretend they're ready for a Walmart parking lot yet.
00:28:13
Jordan Smith
And that's 100% true. true
00:28:14
The SnowJobs Podcast
I agree with that 100%. Mm-hmm.
00:28:15
RICK JAMES
ye
00:28:16
Jordan Smith
think we're a lot closer to being able to do sidewalks, especially if it was like, you know, municipal sidewalks, like long straight runs, four or five miles long with limited obstacles.
00:28:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
hu
00:28:26
Jordan Smith
um I think that's more feasible. But you start talking about like, you know, a campus environment with winding sidewalks and lots of pedestrians and light poles and landscape beds. I think it gets a lot trickier.
00:28:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
hell Yeah.
00:28:38
RICK JAMES
Right. Yep. Okay.
00:28:39
Jordan Smith
Next quote was, if autonomy comes to our industry, I don't want to see my guys get replaced, but I do want to see them get supported. And I think sidewalk support would help a lot in that environment.
00:28:50
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:28:51
Jordan Smith
And then the last one was autonomy is a buzzword until it works at 2 a.m. in an ice storm with cars parked in the wrong spot. So obviously a lot of skepticism around autonomy. So people said we want it, but we're skeptical that we but we'll get there anytime soon.
00:29:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:29:04
Jordan Smith
And I think they're probably right.
00:29:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
think that's normal. I mean, the snow industry as a whole is basically a skeptical injury industry. So like we don't believe anything until it actually happens.
00:29:11
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Right. Right.
00:29:14
RICK JAMES
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:14
Jordan Smith
Well, and again, we, we, we can prove that with storm. We, we invested in it to see what it was all about and it's really cool. Don't get me wrong. It's cool.
00:29:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
hmm.
Industry Innovations and Future Trends
00:29:22
Jordan Smith
It's been a fun experiment, but it's, I mean, it's nowhere near ready to put on a site. You know, working with this company. They're like, yeah, give it a year and we'll, we'll get it on a site for you. um and they have the best of intentions and they worked hard for us, but that, that thing ain't going on a site anytime soon.
00:29:37
Jordan Smith
No way, no way.
00:29:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah
00:29:38
RICK JAMES
isnt Is it a... Do they like send up updates, like like your app updates? Do they do stuff like that to that or what?
00:29:44
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:29:46
Jordan Smith
Yup. Yeah. there So it's it's cool. I mean, it's it's like ah you know, it's an AI learning model. So the more you use it, the more it learns and the better it gets. ah um But it still just can't deal with unpredictability. Like it it just, again, we, you know, they show us demos. These things will run for four days straight without taking a break in a quarry, just loading trucks. No problem.
00:30:10
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:30:10
Jordan Smith
um but you start trying to push snow get a little too much weight out in front of the plow. And you know how the loader slides sideways when you get too much sideways, side lateral load.
00:30:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:30:19
Jordan Smith
As soon as it slides sideways, it's like, Ooh, I'm off track, shut it down. And that's,
00:30:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
I mean, in the quarry, it's taking the same route every single time. It's taking the it's going from the pile to the park to the dump deck every time on suitable footing.
00:30:26
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:30:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
So, I mean, it's there's there's a lot more room for error there there's with the snow. Yeah, can see that. you're never You're never doing the same route twice.
00:30:39
Jordan Smith
Yep.
00:30:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
At least you shouldn't be.
00:30:40
Jordan Smith
It's, it's a, same no, no, it' it's the same argument as the, as the autonomous lawnmowers for snowblowers, right? It's lawn is just a much more predictable, consistent environment.
00:30:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:30:50
Jordan Smith
You can, you can plan in a pattern to mow and it can mow the same pattern every single time. And that's just not ever going to be the case with snow.
00:30:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:30:59
RICK JAMES
no
00:31:01
Jordan Smith
All right, so then the last sort of segment was for for this part of the survey for this episode is, you know, this thing came out in early 24, right about the time we were launching Storm Vision.
00:31:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:31:16
Jordan Smith
So we were just seeking some feedback on, you know, how how much people would value certain features in something that tracks snowplow productivity and efficiency because no one else has ever released anything like that.
00:31:30
Jordan Smith
So the the first question was, you know, just a leading question.
00:31:30
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:31:33
Jordan Smith
Would you find technology that tracks plow operator efficiency and productivity um such as acres per hour to be valuable? You know, that was a resounding yes.
00:31:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:31:42
Jordan Smith
84% yes. 16% no or indifferent. um And the ones that were indifferent basically said, I do seasonal accounts, so I don't really care. We're we're getting paid. We just need to do the work. So whatever. That's cool.
00:31:53
Jordan Smith
So a majority of people obviously would like to know what their production rates on plows are. But where it got more interesting is when we asked if you answered yes to the previous question, what data specifically would be most impactful to you?
00:32:07
Jordan Smith
And this is where we got a lot of good engagement on what guys, at least what guys think they want. and And that is just like accurate production rate data based on their operators, their equipment, and their climate.
00:32:22
Jordan Smith
Because you know how many people have we seen over the years ah that release production rates? Like this is a eight acre per hour plow, or Simon's got their production rates.
00:32:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:32:30
Jordan Smith
they're not there's no way to release accurate production rates because every operator is different.
00:32:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:32:34
Jordan Smith
Every site is different. Every type of snowstorm is different.
00:32:36
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:32:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:32:38
Jordan Smith
Time of day makes a difference. Visibility, you know you get it ah six in the morning, sun starts coming up with the white snow, and you can't see anything. You're not gonna go as fast as is ah when it's clouded over and there's no one in your way. So there's so much variability.
00:32:52
Jordan Smith
in production rates that the main feedback was, man, if I could actually see how many acres per hour I'm getting from this operator on this site, that would be huge.
00:33:02
Jordan Smith
So that's one of the things we're working towards with Storm Vision, but we're trying to do it in a way where, you know, we talked about tech fatigue earlier, like we have to do it in a way where it's really simple. like the operators almost get like a ah rating assigned to them and doesn't have to be manually tracked.
00:33:16
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:33:18
Jordan Smith
It's just doing in the background. You can pull up a spreadsheet or a dashboard and it can say, you know operator A on this Walmart site averages 3.7 acres per hour with this loader and this plow throughout the course of the season.
00:33:30
Jordan Smith
Some events are two, some events are seven. Your average is this. Now, when you go to bid sites, you can look at that and say, if I'm bidding a big box store, 3.7 acres per hour is what I'm getting out of my CAT 906 with a 830 13 or with a 10 foot Arctic or whatever the case may be.
00:33:44
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:33:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:33:46
Jordan Smith
So that's what we're trying to work towards. And that's what that's the feedback we expected to hear. But, you know, this is just not something that anyone has ever attempted to track before, because there's a lot that goes into this. Right.
00:33:58
Jordan Smith
So when we start when we start thinking about how to track plow efficiency, it's not as simple as
00:33:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:34:04
Jordan Smith
blade width times speed, because you have overlap, you have the amount of time you're spent carrying the plow up in the air versus having the plow on the ground.
00:34:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
you
00:34:12
Jordan Smith
um you know if if If you have an operator that's that's doing two feet of extra overlap on a 20 foot plow over and over and over, they're 10% less efficient than someone that's only doing four inches of overlap.
00:34:23
Jordan Smith
So there's a lot of variables to getting that data accurate, which is why we haven't released that feature yet, because we have to make sure it's right. If we end up being first to market with operator productivity numbers and they're completely wrong, that whole thing's scrapped, right?
00:34:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:34:39
RICK JAMES
right i mean when you guys talk i mean i don't know when you guys talk i love the storm horizon when we when you guys told me about that last year what you're working on i was i was super excited about that i was like this would be fantastic to find out you know like
00:34:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:34:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
I thought it was pretty simple to begin with. I like the storm vision.
00:34:47
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:34:58
RICK JAMES
Like I've said on here, my guys are really competitive and stuff. So it'd almost be like a competition for you to have you know have your guys ranked up on the board and say, you know, to me, I think that'd just be cool just to, know, it make them better, I think.
00:35:07
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:13
RICK JAMES
And like you said,
00:35:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
That would help me for bidding.
00:35:15
RICK JAMES
I mean, you definitely, that's not it would definitely help for bidding all that fun stuff too.
00:35:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
and would It would definitely help me for bidding.
00:35:18
RICK JAMES
I mean, that's what it's for, but it also, I think would help in the other, just with your guys as well, you know, at least on my end, I think it would
00:35:25
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, oh, definitely.
00:35:27
RICK JAMES
so
00:35:28
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:35:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
World Series at Glacier, the World Series of Snow.
00:35:32
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:35:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
You'd have guys rubbing.
00:35:32
RICK JAMES
would.
00:35:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah It'd be like a NASCAR race. They'd be bouncing off each other's tires.
00:35:36
RICK JAMES
So. If I sabotaged each other's equipment.
00:35:36
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep. yeah
00:35:41
Jordan Smith
When I think too, like, I'm sure you guys have this in your operation, but you know who your rockstar operators are. Like you you have your guys that just, they just plow more than anyone else.
00:35:46
RICK JAMES
Thank
00:35:49
Jordan Smith
Like you just, you don't exactly know why and you don't exactly know what the differential is, but like you can just look,
00:35:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:35:55
Jordan Smith
add an operator's route and go, yep, that guy's gonna crush it. He always does. And you're gonna look at another guy and go, yep, he's gonna be slow, but he's gonna do a good job. And you just, you know that. If you could actually understand why, like, you know, maybe it's the overlap. Maybe it's the amount of time they they spend in reverse with the plow off the ground. Maybe it's a combination of all of these things. Like that's what we're trying to boil this down to.
00:36:15
Jordan Smith
And the way we're trying to kind of do that is, is again, in the back end portal that no one sees that's collecting the data, like picture a job site as a big Pac-Man board with the little dots you have to eat.
00:36:27
Jordan Smith
Like basically the the the map is full of dots and your plow is the Pac-Man mouth and you're just going around eating the dots. And if you go over the same spot 30 times, you don't eat more dots. You're just going over the same spot. Right.
00:36:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
Got it.
00:36:39
Jordan Smith
So that's a concept we're working off of. um
00:36:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
I like it.
00:36:42
Jordan Smith
I wish it was actually as simple as I just made it sound because it's not, but I believe we can get there, but we're just going to make sure that we don't release that until we're actually there because it it has to be accurate
Survey Importance and Future Plans
00:36:52
Jordan Smith
for it to to be impactful.
00:36:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
Has to be right.
00:36:53
RICK JAMES
See, and like you just explained there, this is, I don't know how you're going to do that.
00:36:53
Jordan Smith
Yep.
00:36:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:36:58
RICK JAMES
You know, like you said, you keep going over the same spot. It could be a spot where guys are digging shit out and keep putting in the same spot. You know, you have another equipment over here pushing to the same spot every time they're digging out a dock or digging out something.
00:37:11
RICK JAMES
So how do we, you know, I mean, I know there's going to be variables and stuff that, but that's the first thing that came to mind when you said that.
00:37:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, that's a good point.
00:37:13
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:37:19
RICK JAMES
If you keep going over the same spot, well, sometimes there's a reason you're doing that.
00:37:21
Jordan Smith
Yep.
00:37:22
RICK JAMES
So,
00:37:23
Jordan Smith
Well, yeah, I mean, some some of the loaders jobs is just to shuttle snow to a pile. You know, there's a central wind rail location.
00:37:27
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:37:29
Jordan Smith
We just saw it in the ODP episode. Like the guy was like, oh my job is to get the snow to the or maybe it's curbside. Actually, my job is to get the snow to the middle aisle and someone else come pick it up. It was it was curbside.
00:37:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:37:38
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:37:39
Jordan Smith
um And he said it it kind of sucks because I wish I could just do it myself.
00:37:39
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:37:43
Jordan Smith
But this is the most efficient way to do it. I thought that was kind of cool.
00:37:45
RICK JAMES
you
00:37:46
Jordan Smith
That kind of described exactly what you just said is like. You know, sometimes it's most efficient just to shuttle the snow to one spot and the same machine just comes and scoops it up and scoops it up. And in that case, there's no way to get a production rate on that because it's, you know, at that point, now you're starting to link storm visions together where this one talks to this one and this one knows that it's clearing all the detail work and this one's doing all the bulking.
00:37:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
yep
00:37:58
RICK JAMES
Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:38:07
Jordan Smith
Like it starts to get really complicated. and
00:38:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:38:10
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:38:11
Jordan Smith
This is all describing why no one has production rates that are accurate. You know, I've taken a stab at them. um I think they're close sometimes, but on in other occasions, you know, I've had people use them. and I always tell them like, hey, you can use my production rates, but just be aware that they could be completely wrong.
00:38:25
Jordan Smith
You know, like it it might not be applicable to your site or the way you're plowing the snow, but here's kind of some of the baselines we work off of. ah The cool thing is though, over the course of time, as we collect all this data from all these different operators, from all these different markets, you can start to assess data on a more macro scale and you're you're going to find trends.
00:38:45
Jordan Smith
Like you're going to find out on certain types of sites, you're always going to have one or two shuttle machines and it can start to learn based on that in the model and improve over time.
00:38:53
RICK JAMES
Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm.
00:38:55
Jordan Smith
But it's not an overnight thing for sure.
00:38:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
No, there's a lot of moving parts.
00:38:59
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:38:59
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:39:00
Jordan Smith
and And to some extent, it's kind of the 80-20 rule here. Like there's there's probably like, or 20-80 rule, I should say. There's probably like 20% of the information that gets you 80% of the result.
00:39:11
Jordan Smith
And that's probably as good as you're going to get.
00:39:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sure.
00:39:13
Jordan Smith
um Because if you strive for perfection, you'll probably never get there.
00:39:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, you'll never see it
00:39:20
Jordan Smith
ah but But, you know, kind of my dream for this is what you said, Jeremy, is like if we can get to a point where a company can understand that in their market on this type of site, in this amount of snowfall, here's how long this site's going to take me. Here's what the throughput should look like.
00:39:36
Jordan Smith
Now they can bid more accurately, they can scale their fleet more accurately, and it can be extremely potent. So this was ah this was a cool part of the survey for us, because again, we kind of thought we knew what we were gonna hear, um but just seeing, like, again, because the second question was an essay response,
00:39:53
Jordan Smith
This was one of the longest, like people spent the most time on these responses, which tells me that it's a really big pain point for them.
00:40:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:40:01
Jordan Smith
And it's something that they really would like to see solved. So that just motivates us even more to try to get it done.
00:40:09
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's awesome.
00:40:10
RICK JAMES
That's great. That's exciting.
00:40:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
How close are you? Okay.
00:40:14
Jordan Smith
I'd be lying to you if I said we were close. I don't think we are.
00:40:18
The SnowJobs Podcast
but and
00:40:18
Jordan Smith
um We conceptually, conceptually, we have, you know, the framework built, but to actually launch it and have all the products smart connected talking to a server, um we're we're probably a couple of years away from that yet.
00:40:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
Gotcha.
00:40:35
Jordan Smith
A lot of that, a lot of that's the same argument as the autonomous Cyborg equipment.
00:40:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
no
00:40:38
Jordan Smith
It's a huge investment and like,
00:40:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
Absolutely.
00:40:40
Jordan Smith
it's a million plus dollars to build that out. And if we can't sell 5,000 of these things, we can't pay for it. So like, it has to be good enough. We have to be confident it's going to be good enough where 5,000 people or 5,000 units can be sold to to start paying for it.
00:40:55
Jordan Smith
So that's a big part of it.
00:40:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
Amen.
00:40:57
Jordan Smith
so that kind So that kind of wraps up this part of the the survey.
00:40:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:41:01
Jordan Smith
And... Again, kind of looking looking towards the future. So what that leaves us for the next episode is um part partially future-based, but the next episode when we do that is going to be innovation wishlist. So we just talked about what they think the future will look like. And now the next episode is more about what they actually want and what they think is actually feasible. So this this was kind of more of the dream. Let's dream what's maybe possible. And the next one is more, here's exactly what I need to make my business successful.
00:41:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
Very cool.
00:41:35
RICK JAMES
Cool. Yeah.
00:41:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
This has been good. i'm going I'm glad you got so many respondents because it, you know, we talk snow all the time, right? All of us, we all bullshit about snow and we think we know, you know, we think we got our finger on the pulse.
00:41:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
And when you have a sample audience like this and then you're reading the results and it's like, yeah, we're okay. We were right about that. we were right about that. We were, yeah we weren't so right about that. I think, you know, I think it's awesome. I mean, I encourage you to keep doing these surveys because, uh,
00:42:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
I don't know.
00:42:04
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:42:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
i think I think the information is critical.
00:42:07
Jordan Smith
one and And our big thing, too, is like, obviously, if we were if we were just wanting to hoard the information for ourselves, we wouldn't be broadcasting on a podcast. So like I've i've talked to other OEMs about this. i've I've talked to other vendors about this. Like I want this stuff to be out there so that just like you guys do with snow jobs, like we're just trying to bring awareness to what the pain points actually are so that we can collectively solve it because there's no one company that can do all this stuff.
00:42:32
Jordan Smith
Um, so hopefully other, uh, hopefully other vendors, OEMs and innovators listen to this stuff and take note too, because it it's, we're not hoarding this stuff for ourselves. We're, we're collecting this data for the the betterment of the industry overall.
00:42:44
Jordan Smith
That's
00:42:46
RICK JAMES
Yeah, we all get better together, like we always say.
00:42:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:42:48
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:42:49
Jordan Smith
right.
00:42:50
The SnowJobs Podcast
There were a couple other questions um here the that you had sent over to us, Jordan, from your from your research. um I don't know if we wanted to comment on them or if we just want to cut it.
00:43:02
Jordan Smith
It's up to you, man.
00:43:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
I mean, there was there was one that i that one that hit home that i i you know it's because it's my size that the guy's talking about.
00:43:04
Jordan Smith
Some of them.
00:43:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
um It says, ah in my business, I'm going to either have to get a lot bigger or just be done. I can't tell you the amount of times we've heard that, right, Jeremy, in the last year from all different size businesses.
00:43:24
RICK JAMES
Yeah. Yep.
00:43:27
RICK JAMES
yep
00:43:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
like they're Like from guys that are already big, like, all I'm going have to get massively bigger or I'm done.
00:43:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
And then from the small guy, like one, two trucks, like I'm going to have to get a lot bigger. I'm done. Like, I don't know. Is is that just ah what do you think that comes from? Where do you think that comes from?
00:43:43
Jordan Smith
Yeah, I mean, and and I apologize, I did actually skip that section. That's my fault. I got too excited about the StormVision stuff.
00:43:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's all good.
00:43:50
Jordan Smith
So this is really relevant because I think, you know, you've probably heard me relay back to like the ag industry. look Look at what's happened in ag the last 20 years. It's gone from like family farms to full automation.
00:44:03
Jordan Smith
corporate farms, like now in today's farming landscape, 10,000 acres is a small farm. It used to be massive.
00:44:09
The SnowJobs Podcast
and
00:44:09
Jordan Smith
Like someone at 10,000 acres, like, man, they're like the biggest farmer in the region.
00:44:11
RICK JAMES
Yeah. Yeah. Great.
00:44:14
Jordan Smith
Now that's like, that's a small farm. a lot of these corporate farms are hundreds of thousands or even millions of acres in size.
00:44:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, farm glomerates.
00:44:20
Jordan Smith
and And they're running fully automated equipment and they know exactly where every seed went in the ground and exactly how much fertilizer went on each square foot of, you know, it's crazy the level.
00:44:28
RICK JAMES
you
00:44:29
Jordan Smith
But again, it it all comes back to the size of the industry. Ag is 4,000 times the size of the snow industry. So there's a lot more investment that goes into that.
00:44:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:44:36
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:44:37
Jordan Smith
But I think where that comment comes from is just people are feeling the squeeze of how much everything costs, how much how much the equipment costs, how much the overhead costs, how much staffing costs.
00:44:37
RICK JAMES
right
00:44:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:44:46
RICK JAMES
Thank you.
00:44:48
Jordan Smith
And There are just scale related things that they just don't work. Like you almost have to be either really small or really big. And in the middle is kind of a tough spot to be in sometimes.
00:45:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, but even if you're i mean even if you're scaling up, you're still scaling your costs as well.
00:45:06
Jordan Smith
Mm-hmm.
00:45:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah like The bigger you get, you're scaling your costs. so I mean, when you get to that next level, yes, you'll be making more income, but your costs are going to be up respectively as well. do you I mean, when you get to that mountain, the top of that mountain where you say, I got to grow or I'm done, and you actually make the move to grow,
00:45:25
The SnowJobs Podcast
and you spend that money to ramp up, and now you get there, and your costs are up, and i don't know. the Is it worth it is what I'm saying. Like, are you just breaking even at a different level?
00:45:37
Jordan Smith
Well, yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, I think some of this is some of this is why consolidation is happening, though.
00:45:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. but
00:45:39
RICK JAMES
Pretty much.
00:45:45
Jordan Smith
I mean, how how many companies have we seen the last five years that were owner operators that sold the private equity or to publicly traded companies?
00:45:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:45:53
Jordan Smith
It's because they felt the squeeze.
00:45:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:45:55
Jordan Smith
And they didn't feel like they could scale it on their own. So they partnered up with someone bigger. And in a lot of cases, they get gutted. And it's unfortunate. But That's why we're seeing this happen is is it's the scale thing. it's it's It's just an inherent result of the way capitalism works. Like the bigger you are, the deeper your coffers are, the bigger, more efficient equipment you can use, the more technology you can use to dial in every you know every ounce of everything you do.
00:46:22
Jordan Smith
Unfortunately, when you get to the point where it's all just about money, then it becomes devoid of culture. And that is what makes these companies fall apart.
00:46:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
No.
00:46:29
Jordan Smith
Like that's why i'm not saying Brightview is not working. Like, you know, whatever you want to say about Brightview, you look at their financials, they're they're doing fine. they're're They're making money. They're achieving their goal. Now, are they blowing it out of the water?
00:46:40
Jordan Smith
Is anyone impressed with their work? No, but their financials are public.
00:46:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
no
00:46:45
Jordan Smith
They're making money. Their EBITDA is strong. So, it because of their scale, it's working. I'm not saying it's right. I don't, it's not how I want to own a business, or run a business, but it's just inherently part of the way capitalism works.
00:46:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
so
00:46:58
Jordan Smith
And as an industry grows, consolidation happens.
00:47:02
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:47:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep. I agree.
00:47:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. We, I mean, we spent a whole half an episode talking about that, where we've just heard that so many times from so many different guys of all sizes in the last year that I'm either, I'm either going to grow, get to the next level or I'm out.
00:47:19
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:47:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
A lot of guys have sold.
00:47:21
Jordan Smith
Yep.
00:47:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
lot of guys in the last year have sold lot of medium sized business.
00:47:21
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:47:24
Jordan Smith
They have.
00:47:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
Three around here, know just right before the winter hit.
00:47:26
Jordan Smith
Yep.
00:47:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
Three of the bigger landscape snow companies in my area sold out to ah you know and private equity.
00:47:37
Jordan Smith
Well, and really the model you're seeing is is private equity identifies one company that's doing well and has some influence and pull and they acquire them and then they take the team from that company to go and headhunt more companies that are similar to them and they just keep rolling it up that way.
00:47:37
RICK JAMES
I a
00:47:51
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sure.
00:47:54
Jordan Smith
um
00:47:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's it.
00:47:56
Jordan Smith
I think there are some success stories. I don't know all the intimate details, but like one that comes to mind is is Yellowstone. So that's kind of what Yellowstone has done. And my understanding is that They've been going around acquiring all these companies. I think they're up to 13 or 14 companies all across the country now from Florida to Arizona to Chicago.
00:48:15
Jordan Smith
And from what I've heard, they're doing quite well with that model because but all they're doing is they're they're acquiring these companies, they're leaving the team and the culture in place, but they're you know consolidating their their executive leadership and their their vision and strategy planning.
00:48:32
Jordan Smith
you know so It can work, unfortunately, in more cases than not. We've we've seen it not work. So i guess I guess we'll see where that goes. and when i say not work, I'm not saying they're not profitable.
00:48:42
Jordan Smith
Again, Brightview is profitable.
00:48:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
No.
00:48:44
Jordan Smith
But I don't know that people love working there.
00:48:48
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, and are they doing are they doing the same job?
00:48:52
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:48:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
You know, like, are you getting three inches of mulch are you getting one?
00:48:54
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:48:54
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:48:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
You know, like, yeah that kind of thing.
00:48:58
Jordan Smith
Yep.
00:48:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
But, yeah, just I just thought that was ah that that question kind of struck me because we've heard it so much from guys in the last year.
00:49:00
Jordan Smith
Yep.
00:49:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
I just wanted to get your take on that.
00:49:09
Jordan Smith
Yeah, it's interesting and I think it's just and it's gonna keep happening. And it's not just that that's a product of byproduct of capitalism, it's also that
00:49:14
The SnowJobs Podcast
Amen.
00:49:23
Jordan Smith
you know, the type of sites, the type of, you know, if you're if you're in commercial snow, at least the type of sites we're going after get bigger and bigger. So there's less number of sites to do, but the sites are larger and that requires scaling more regionally.
00:49:36
Jordan Smith
And when you start scaling outside it you know, Fargo, North Dakota, Jeremy, or Mankato, Minnesota for me, or Fishkill, New York for you, Steve, it gets a lot more expensive because now you're buying multiple facilities and you have to trust
00:49:36
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:49:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
hu Oh yeah.
00:49:48
Jordan Smith
that managers are running the company the way you expect and that you're not getting stolen from and that people are showing up and doing the work properly. And that's just something that larger companies are maybe more equipped to handle than an owner-operator is.
00:49:55
RICK JAMES
you
00:50:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Hmm. Cool.
00:50:05
Jordan Smith
That's what I got for this one, boys.
00:50:07
RICK JAMES
All right.
00:50:07
The SnowJobs Podcast
All right.
00:50:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
So we'll be back next month with part three of the four part series.
00:50:10
Jordan Smith
Let's do it.
00:50:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
Got anything else, Jay?
00:50:14
RICK JAMES
That was a good one.
00:50:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
Nope. All right.
00:50:15
RICK JAMES
lot of interesting stuff like always with Jordan. And ah love that.
00:50:18
The SnowJobs Podcast
Always good with Jordan.
00:50:20
RICK JAMES
I love the survey and all the answers and talking points.
00:50:23
Jordan Smith
I guess that may be a good time just to tease it.
00:50:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
Absolutely.
00:50:25
Jordan Smith
We got the the next version 2025 survey coming out at Syma next week. So if you're at Syma, Come check out our booth. Lots of good prizes again this year.
00:50:36
Jordan Smith
i won't
00:50:36
The SnowJobs Podcast
Groovy.
00:50:37
Jordan Smith
i won't ah yeah groovy i won't ah and won't spill the beans on what they are yet. We'll let that come out through our social media and at our booth. But a lot of good prizes again this year for filling out the survey and should be another good one. and And I will say for those that filled it out last year, the feedback we got is that it was way too long.
00:50:55
Jordan Smith
I agree with that. It probably took an hour to fill this thing out. This year, it's 10 minutes or less. So it's going to be a lot lighter lot lighter load to fill out the survey this year.
00:51:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
I didn't mind taking that that entrance exam. I really i didn't mind it. You know why? Because it made me think. It really made me look at my company, and it made me think.
00:51:10
RICK JAMES
Yeah, Yeah, that one.
00:51:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
So I don't mind that once in a while when you know friends ask me, yeah can you do this for me? Yeah, we can do that. And I thought you know as much as I broke balls about it taking me an hour to do it, I thought it was great because it made me look at my company, and I haven't really done that in maybe two years.
00:51:29
Jordan Smith
It's good.
00:51:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, it was good, brother.
00:51:30
Jordan Smith
Well, well this year this year will be lighter and maybe next year will go heavier again, but that's strategy for this year.
00:51:30
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:51:36
Jordan Smith
so come check it out at Syma and keep an eye out on social media for the giveaways and the survey.
00:51:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sounds good, brother. Well, thank you as always, Jordan.
00:51:44
RICK JAMES
it.
00:51:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
Always a good time with you.
00:51:47
Jordan Smith
Appreciate it, boys.
00:51:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
Always a lot of great information. All right. Well, then that's do it. That'll do it. We'll wrap it there. That's going to do it for part two of this four part dusting series with the, uh, the storm survey of 2024. Uh, that's it.
00:52:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
We're going to, uh, yeah, guys have a great time at Simon. Won't see you, but, uh, you know, we'll have a drink for me and live it up. But ah be safe getting there and home. And to everybody else out there, ah wish you all the same. All right. Drink responsibly. Party well. meet the Meet all your people and friends and have a great time.
00:52:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
But that's going to do it for us. Everybody be safe. Have a great week. Keep pushing.