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Ep 54. Sarah Elliott, CEO Shelter: Fighting for home
365 Plays14 days ago
Sarah Elliott started as the new CEO of the UK charity, Shelter, in September 2025, having previously run the National Council for Voluntary Organisations (NCVO) for 5 years.
Shelter exists to defend everyone’s right to a safe home. Campaigning for housing justice since 1966, Shelter has fought hard to change the housing system in the UK.
In June 2025, UK Chancellor Rachel Reeves, announced a £39 Billion investment, for social and affordable housing. The Renters Rights Act, passed in October, also brings much needed, widespread reform to the UK’s private rental sector.
A second-time guest on the show, in this episode, Sarah reflects on Shelter’s impact, her approach to leadership, and the joy of working in a cause-led organisation. We explore her experience of partnering with government and now seeing the Civil Society Covenant come to life. She discusses Shelter’s hard-hitting report My Colour Speaks Before Me on racism and discrimination in the housing sector, and shares her vision for the charity’s future.
Recorded November 2025.
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Transcript
The Housing Crisis: Causes and Distractions
00:00:00
Speaker
having a safe home is a human right and even if net migration dropped to zero tomorrow there'd still be a housing emergency and so we see the sort of scapegoating of migrants and mixing this up with the housing crisis is a real distraction the impact on housing demand is decades of government failure to build enough social homes and that's what the government should be focusing on if they want to tackle this
00:00:33
Speaker
Welcome to an exciting new season of the Charity CEO Podcast, where we bring you the stories and insights of remarkable leaders who are changing the world for the better.
Charity CEO Podcast Launch: Social Change Spotlight
00:00:41
Speaker
We talk to the movers and shakers who are driving positive social change, inspiring you to think big, act boldly, and make a difference.
00:00:50
Speaker
A huge shout out to our incredible global community of listeners spanning over 55 countries. Your thoughtful comments and feedback continue to fuel this growing movement, and we couldn't do it without you.
00:01:01
Speaker
To all of you who pour your hearts and souls into making the world a better place, especially those of you in the charity and non-profit sectors, thank you for the tireless passion you bring to your work. This podcast is for you.
00:01:13
Speaker
I'm Divya O'Connor, and here's the show.
Sarah Elliott's Journey: Leadership at Shelter
00:01:17
Speaker
I'm delighted to welcome back to the show someone who I'm proud to call a dear friend, Sarah Elliott. Sarah has recently started as the new CEO of the yeah UK charity Shelter, having previously run the National Council for Voluntary Organisations, NCBO.
00:01:31
Speaker
Shelter exists to defend everyone's right to a safe home. Campaigning for housing justice since 1966, Shelter has fought hard to change the housing system in the yeah UK.
00:01:42
Speaker
In June this year, UK Chancellor Rachel Reeves announced a 39 billion investment for social and affordable housing.
Government Initiatives: Investment and Reforms
00:01:50
Speaker
The Renters' Rights Act, passed just last month, also brings much needed widespread reform to the UK's private rental sector.
00:01:58
Speaker
In this episode, Sarah reflects on Shelter's impact, her approach to leadership and the joy of working in a cause-led organisation. We explore her experience of partnering with government and now seeing the civil society covenant come to life.
Reflections on Leadership and Impact
00:02:12
Speaker
She discusses Shelter's hard-hitting report, My Colour Speaks Before Me, on racism and discrimination in the housing sector and shares her vision for the charity's future. Enjoy the conversation.
00:02:26
Speaker
Hi Sarah, a very warm welcome back to the Charity CEO podcast. I am delighted to have you on the show as a guest for the second time and this time as the new CEO of Shelter. How are you?
00:02:39
Speaker
Hi Divya, I am really good thank you and thanks for having back on the show with my new hat on. Oh you're very welcome. Sarah, you and I know each other quite well, but some of our listeners may not. So I do have a few icebreaker questions for you. And as you've been on the show before, I've kept it to just three questions this time.
00:02:58
Speaker
So question one, tell us something about yourself that people wouldn't typically know.
Personal Insights: Relaxation and Inspiration
00:03:04
Speaker
oh wow. Let me have a think. Okay. I know. at the weekends, I sometimes go inline skating.
00:03:12
Speaker
And just to give a bit of context for that, i have two little boys who adore skateboards, scooters, skate parks. And having spent far too much time bored on the sidelines, last year I decided to buy some inline skates and join in with them.
00:03:27
Speaker
So I'm a roller roller skating CEO. ah Brilliant. I knew you did a lot of cycling and now you have added skating to your repertoire. Excellent. I'm not very good, I should add.
00:03:41
Speaker
How many times have you fallen over? oh far too many. Far too many. That's the test. And you get right back up. Question two, who's your favourite author and what book are you currently reading? Oh, I was recently asked this on an internal shelter fireside chat. And I'm going to say what I said then, which was I spent ages looking at the sort of like book a prize list and trying to pick a book that like sounded really good and would make me sound very clever.
00:04:11
Speaker
and CEO-like. And then I realised I should just tell the truth, which is I am not very well read. do a lot of reading in my job. And so reading for pleasure is not something I do a lot ah of. But my favourite author is an Irish author called Marianne Keyes, who it's basically comedy, chiclet, just nice stuff to relax to at the end of a kind of of hard day. So yeah, Marianne Keyes is probably my favourite author. And I love it when she brings a new book out.
00:04:37
Speaker
Lovely. And question three, can you share with us a quote or a motto that is significant to you? I am going to quote Jacinda Ardern, who was the Prime Minister of New Zealand, as you are probably aware. And my favourite quote by her is, I refuse to believe that you cannot be both compassionate and strong.
00:05:00
Speaker
And I think those who know me will know I have picked that because I think leadership is as much about caring deeply about the people and the causes that you lead as it is about that more traditional lead from the front strong leadership that I think recently we've seen a bit of a turn against so I think that's really important I think particularly as a female leader you must have had the same Divya in terms of being able to hold those two things and be true to both of them.
Shelter's Mission: Ending Homelessness
00:05:29
Speaker
Absolutely and on that note Sarah firstly huge congratulations on your appointment as the new Chief Executive of Shelter is a charity that campaigns for housing justice and supports people impacted by homelessness. And I know that coming from leading NCVO for the past five years, moving to a cause-led organisation was important to you and is a step change. So tell us about the work that you and your colleagues do at Shelter and also give us some context about homelessness in the UK.
00:06:01
Speaker
So put simply, Shelter is trying to end homelessness. We are fighting for home. We're passionate campaigners and we believe that everybody should have a secure, stable, safe place to call home. And sadly, that is just not the situation for far too many people. Homelessness in England really is at record levels now. the latest stats show over 172,000 children are homeless in temporary accommodation. so that's more than everybody who lives in Oxford.
00:06:35
Speaker
and the highest figure since records began. And we believe that's unacceptable. And the reasons for this are because successive governments have failed to build enough social housing or council housing, as people would probably know it. So social housing social housing rents are linked to local income, which means that they only truly affordable homes for many people. but We've got soaring private rentals And there's not enough social homes for people to live in, which means they're being pushed into homelessness. And when families approach the council for homelessness assistance, they are being given temporary accommodation. And much of this is deeply unsuitable for people to live in for any length of time. It's often families cramped in a single room together, children often having shared beds. There might not be adequate launch facilities or cooking facilities.
00:07:30
Speaker
And this is the reality for just far too many people. Families often placed miles away from where they were previously living, support networks, children having to travel very long distances to school.
00:07:42
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And so that's what we're campaigning to change. And it's why we want the government to urgently build more social homes, because that's the only way that we're going to truly, truly solve the housing emergency.
00:07:54
Speaker
That statistic that you shared there, Sarah, is really stark. 172,000 children being homeless. Can you share what are some of the key drivers of homelessness?
00:08:05
Speaker
So as I said already, the ultimate cause of the housing emergency is a severe shortage of social rent homes. And for decades, we've basically lost more social homes than we've built because of either selling off social housing, council housing, or some of it has been demolished. So that's the fundamental problem. But on top of that, housing allowance, local housing allowance, or kind of housing benefit, um in other words, has been frozen.
00:08:33
Speaker
And the housing benefit is meant to be linked to the cost of private renting. But that link has been broken because of the freeze to housing allowance.
00:08:44
Speaker
And so you've got social housing and short supply. So people are pushed into the private rental sector, but they can't afford a private rental because the local housing allowance doesn't cover that.
00:08:55
Speaker
And then I've already sort of touched on on the other aspects of it, which is absolute skyrocketing private rents. So again, the private rental sector has grown beyond its purpose. It's ballooned over the last 20 years because of runaway house prices and because, again, of the lack of social homes. And so it's completely unaffordable and people are often left competing for very overpriced, often quite poor quality rentals and all of these things driving people into homelessness.
00:09:25
Speaker
I'd like to come on to talk about the private rental sector, but I should just note for our listeners that we are recording this podcast in November 2025, couple of weeks before the UK Chancellor Rachel Reeves announces the next budget. And Labour's manifesto commitment is to build 1.5 million homes by the end of this current parliament, although it is widely thought that this target is not likely to be met. How is Shelter working with the government to tackle specifically the UK's housing crisis? And what are your main asks of the current government?
00:09:59
Speaker
So i think the first thing to say is the incredible Shelter team, and they really are amazing, Divya, have had some historic wins recently. We can talk a bit more about the Renters' Rights Act in a few minutes, but also announced recently in June was the Social and Affordable Homes Programme, which has committed £39 billion. pounds for building social and affordable homes. and ah hundred And 180,000 of those homes are going to be social homes. So going back to my earlier point, we need more social housing. There is now money committed to build social homes. And so we're taking this as a really good sign that social housing has been taken seriously. This has been our call for many, many years. But as ever, it's not enough. The research that the team have done shows that we need at least 90,000 social rented homes a year for the next decade. which means at the moment we're really calling on the government to set an overall target for delivering social homes and do a lot more to get councils building again and also making sure the right incentives are in the system and ensuring that developers will build their fair share of those social homes too. So that's our fundamental call to government. In parallel, ahead of the budget, you mentioned the budget is coming up. I really hope by the time people listen to the podcast that the Chancellor has
00:11:16
Speaker
Unfrozen local housing allowance, as I mentioned, that is pushing people into homelessness right now.
Pre-Budget Speculations: Housing Focus
00:11:21
Speaker
And yeah, that's a really key thing the government can do in the short term to help people who are experiencing homelessness right now, because obviously building a new generation of social homes is going to take a long time.
00:11:32
Speaker
Sarah, I'd like to delve a little bit more into the role of charity versus the role of government. In your previous job as CEO of the National Council for Voluntary Organisations, you, of course, played a key role in the development of the civil society covenant.
00:11:47
Speaker
What did you learn from those interactions that you brought with you into this role? Oh, it's been so fascinating moving from, i guess, talking about some of those things in quite theoretical terms often around what's the role of local government, what's the role of a small local charity, to now actually seeing it on the ground. I've spent lots of the last, I think it's 12 weeks I've been at shelter, out visiting our local services.
00:12:12
Speaker
And many of our local services have multiple relationships with government locally. They're often delivering contracts, They're often lobbying the council around a particular planning or development. And then they're probably also working with the local housing team
Collaborative Approaches: Covenants and Coalitions
00:12:29
Speaker
in terms of like the calls that we're answering and helping people get homelessness assistance then and there in the moment. So there's these like multiple relationships.
00:12:38
Speaker
And I actually met someone from DCMS last week and I was saying to her, this is like the covenant in practice. This is how it should be. It shouldn't always be this kind of friendly relationships. Sometimes charities will speak truth to power and that's what the teams are doing locally when they're lobbying for more social housing on a development or making it really clear that a particular development is not fit for purpose and there needs to be more done to maintain those properties or whatever the local campaign might be. But in parallel, we're also delivering some of those relief and prevention services for the local local authority. So I think it's just been such an interesting covenant in practice.
00:13:15
Speaker
And then when it comes to the national work that we're doing and the national lobbying, I mean, it's such a fine balance for any charity to decide how much do you kind of go on the outside campaigns. You know, we've done some terrific stunts at Shelter. i mean, around renters' rights, we put hundreds of packaging boxes onto Parliament Square just to demonstrate that renters couldn't wait any longer for the renters' rights.
00:13:40
Speaker
And so that sort of kind of sometimes quite cheeky campaigning that gets attention is really important in the kind of playbook. But equally, we have good relationships with ministers and we shadow ministers. And so we'll go on the kind of inside track. And it's kind of knowing when to flex those different muscles. And I think I had such a bird's eye view, privileged position at NCVO, being able to look across the the whole sector.
00:14:04
Speaker
And what's really interesting is seeing the different roles that charities play. So different national charities who perhaps have slightly different focuses, but kind of will come together behind the scenes. And then similarly, my teams locally are working with local charities, sometimes in the housing and homelessness sector, but sometimes, for example, women women's refuges, working in partnerships to make sure we can provide that support for the individuals in communities.
00:14:28
Speaker
Absolutely. Taking that step further, do you have any advice for other sector leaders with respect to engaging with government or as well, I should say, expectations for the government and how the covenant might work in practice, as you said there?
Tenants' Rights: Landmark Reforms
00:14:42
Speaker
I mean, I think something that's really important, and I'm a bit of a stuck record on this, is collaboration. And I think that starts with others, the sector. And I think it's really important when facing onto government to come as a sector, Not necessarily all saying the the same things. I mean, to my earlier point, I think we can play different roles. But I think where we can come together, even just behind the scenes, to know what each other is saying and what roles each of us are playing, I think that could be really powerful.
00:15:13
Speaker
I mean, I think there's something about managing expectations at the moment. You know, we know it's a really challenging financial context. And so I think we need to be quite clever in our asks and where we make those asks, but while also being quite uncompromising about the things that are really important to people and communities. I mean, I'm now working in housing and homelessness, but there's really clear links across to food poverty. There's lots of overlaps with, for example, domestic violence and relationship breakdown and homelessness. So
00:15:45
Speaker
All those sort of links across, and we know we're really interested in the child poverty strategy because you know I just mentioned 170,000 children are living in temporary accommodation. So I think there's something around how you could link up across Whitehall as well, like you know not just facing onto one department, but thinking about the whole government strategy around the work that that you're trying to do.
00:16:04
Speaker
And coming on now to the UK Renters' Right Act, which was recently passed and has now become law. There are, of course, over 11 million private renters in the UK. And this act really brings in landmark reforms to the UK private rental sector, providing tenants with more rights and more security. You talked about the packages stunt, but tell us more about the role that Shelter played in campaigning for these rights.
00:16:31
Speaker
So, Shelter has been campaigning for renters' rights for many years. I've had quite a rehearsal on that history last week because we had a party at Shelter headquarters to celebrate the Renters' Rights Act and the setting of a date for implementation. And just to give people a bit of a picture of this, so one of the key announcements in the Renters' Rights Act is the scrapping of something called Section 21, which are no-fault evictions. And so, again, a leading cause of homelessness when people are evicted for no reason. It may be that they just ask their landlord to fix some mould in their house. And rather than paying the money to fix the mould, the landlord has just evicted the tenant.
00:17:13
Speaker
And sadly, that's something that we heard to our services far too often. So that's been scrapped. And so at our celebration last week, we had a Section 21 piñata, which we all destroyed as a team because that's just such a huge, a huge win for the team. And I'm saying for the team because there's something quite special about coming into an organisation at the end of such a big campaign.
00:17:36
Speaker
And it's just a huge change for renters. And it goes right back successive governments. It started as the renters reform bill. And then it never quite made it through Parliament before the election. And then it's gone through as the Renters' Rights Bill and now finally become the Renters' Rights Act. So it's many, many years. I'm going to get the number wrong, but it's something like seven housing secretaries that have kind of been working with us as we've been working on this over the years.
00:18:02
Speaker
since it was first introduced as a serious idea. I think it was Theresa May that first introduced it as a bill to Parliament. So it's been a long time coming. And, you know, renters desperately needed these changes because what it's done is really restore a power imbalance between landlords and renters. And one of the things we've been really clear about is good landlords have nothing to worry about from these reforms. This is about just giving renters back some power so unscrupulous landlords can't surprise tenants by evicting them. And it's also outlawed some discriminatory practices.
00:18:37
Speaker
For example, there's a ban on refusing households just because they've got children or just because they receive housing benefits. Or pets. Or pets, indeed. But yes, getting rid of some of those discriminations in the housing system, which again, push people into homelessness if you can't find a home or you can't find somewhere to rent that's affordable. that will work for your family. Now, I did say, you know, I sort of almost made it sound like the fight is over. The fight is not over yet. you know, we are delighted with the Renters' Rights Act. It's given some really important rights to renters.
00:19:08
Speaker
But we know that there's still other things that we need to fight for. So in particular, we're very worried that landlords can just put up rent and that would be in a kind of economic eviction, if you like.
Systemic Issues: Discrimination and Housing
00:19:21
Speaker
And so one of the things that we would like to go further on is having some cap on increases within a tenancy of rent within a tenancy so it doesn't unexpectedly become affordable for renters but I don't think right now is the time to be talking about what else we need we're very much celebrating what the team has achieved and just really important you know once in a generation reforms Absolutely. And really pleased to see that finally come through as an act and become law. And talking a bit more about power imbalances, Sarah, tell us more about Shelter's anti-racism work and commitments. We are sadly once again seeing heightened racial tensions in the UK around immigration, the asylum, hotels, etc, all of which have significant implications for the housing crisis. How is shelter addressing systemic racism and discrimination in the housing sector?
00:20:16
Speaker
So I'll come on to immigration in a moment because there's some really important messages that I want to land around that. But I think the first thing I wanted to say was, clearly, I've worked on anti-racism in the sector for several years now. And what is so exciting about shelter is their commitment to anti-racism. It runs really deep. It is not just a sort of surface level commitment. It runs through everything. And I'm so proud to be part of that.
00:20:45
Speaker
and There's always more to do. You can't just have done the work and then it's over. It's continuous work. But it's really exciting to come into an organisation which clearly has been so focused on anti-racism and looking at what you can do to be a truly anti-racist housing organisation.
00:21:02
Speaker
Since I've joined, we've actually published a new report which is all about racism and discrimination in the housing system. The report's called My Colour Speaks Before Me and what it's showing is how black people face systemic discrimination when trying to access a social home.
00:21:18
Speaker
And so we know that the fight for home is also a fight against racism and so see it as our responsibility to really campaign on this injustice. And one of the things that I've kind of reflected on is We could build all the social homes we need. We could give renters all the rights. But while there's still discrimination in the system, there'll be still people who are experiencing unfair, unequal treatment and potentially being pushed into homelessness because of racist practice. And so it's just really important pillar of our work.
00:21:48
Speaker
And it's come into sharp focus and been tested really strongly recently with all of the anti-immigration rhetoric. And we are really clear, having a safe home is a human right. And even if net migration dropped to zero tomorrow, there'd still be a housing emergency.
Future Focus: Building Homes and Standards
00:22:06
Speaker
And so we see the sort of scapegoating of migrants and mixing this up with the housing crisis is a real distraction.
00:22:14
Speaker
As I said at the top of the show, the impact on housing demand is decades of government failure to build enough social homes. And that's what the government should be focusing on if they want to tackle this.
00:22:25
Speaker
And Sarah, tell us more about what your plans for Shelter are. and Tell us about Sarah's vision for the organisation going forward. It sounds like there is so much great work that's been done, but there's still so much still to do.
00:22:38
Speaker
Yes. I mean, it's very exciting to come into an organisation that has just had so many historic wins. So I mentioned the money for social housing. I mentioned the renter's rights act. We've also just had AWAB's law, which is really important for social renters to be able to ensure that any safety hazards in their home are fixed promptly. So I've come on on the back of all these historic wins. And I think the first thing to say is just because something's passed into an act of law doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be implemented or enforced. And so I think it's really important that we don't rest until every renter can benefit from the protection of the Renters' Rights Act.
00:23:19
Speaker
And to make sure that, you know, making a child sick because of the housing, that belongs in Dickensian times, not in a country like ours. And so we need to make sure that housing standards continue to rise.
00:23:31
Speaker
And this is with reference to the mould in the house that caused, sadly, the death of this child. Yeah, this is in in response to mould in the house that very sadly back in 2020 caused the death of Awab Ishak.
00:23:44
Speaker
But one of the things that I think is really important is it's it's all very well campaigning for social housing to be built. We've now got 39 billion committed for social and affordable housing. We now need to make sure those houses are built. And that's going to need us to do different things. And that's really exciting. You know, getting houses built is very different for campaigning to have houses built. And so I'm really excited about the coalitions we can build, cross-sector coalitions. It's going to take all of us. It's going to take councils. It's going to take developers. It's going to take charities. It's going to take national government and other national organisations.
00:24:19
Speaker
um It's going to take some of our amazing campaigners on the front line being there at the planning meetings to make sure that the social housing quotas are not watered down and that they do get built.
Charity Challenges and Culture
00:24:30
Speaker
And so I'm really excited about if that's the systemic cause of homelessness, I want over the next five years for us to really turn the tide on that. It's going to take time to build those houses, but we need to get spades in the ground. Those houses need to start being built and We need to send the numbers in the other direction, both in terms of the number of social houses available and then also the number of people who've been pushed into homelessness because there isn't anywhere for them to live at the moment.
00:24:59
Speaker
What has most surprised you joining Shelter as the new CEO? That's a really interesting question. i mean, I think maybe this shouldn't be a surprise, but the fact that charities have such similar challenges, Like I said, I had this incredible bird's eye view of the sector. And I talked about the sector sometimes quite theoretically, although I've always grounded it in kind of real conversations with charity leaders and charity volunteers.
00:25:27
Speaker
But when you're actually inside a charity for real now, you can kind of start to see a lot of the things that was talking about are very, very real. You know, the underfunding of contracts is is a good example, how challenging the fundraising environment is.
00:25:40
Speaker
Rather than just talking about the kind of challenges, I also really want to talk a bit about what's so special about shelter. And I think that's been a surprise. I mean, shelter was somewhere I'd long admired. I remember seeing a party conference stunt. Oh, don't know. It must have been five, maybe more years ago that shelter had done. I remember thinking, wow, they are so bold. They are so brave. I'd love to be part of that one day. And I've had this incredible opportunity to join the team and to lead the team. And I've just, I don't think I've ever worked anywhere where everyone is so laser focused on the cause and driving change. And it's fascinating because we've just had these major wins. And a lot of the colleagues that I talk to are kind of like, well, this is the next thing we need to do. There's like a hunger for change and more change.
00:26:26
Speaker
And I think the final thing I'd say in terms of what surprised me is just how much shelter is part of the national consciousness. probably in a way that I didn't realise, even though I knew the charity sector and shelter quite well. So when I talk to friends, you know, and say that i've I've joined shelter as chief exec, I usually get one of two responses, or sometimes both. One is that they've got a direct debit set up to shelter. You know, that's amazing. there's so many people who fuel the fight for home by generously giving what they can every month.
00:26:55
Speaker
Or And they will say, oh, i once had to use your online advice because my landlord was going to evict me or because I didn't know how to get housing benefit when I lost my job or or whatever it might have been. And so, you know, shelter provides the most incredible advice and the number of people who I've just bumped into since doing this job who at some point have had cause to need shelter support. And that's amazing that we're there for so many people. And i think one of the things that I've learnt really like acutely since coming here is just how homelessness could happen to anyone you know it just takes one life change whether it's losing a job or the breakdown of relationship and you may find yourself homeless and shelter is there for people who are in that situation and to give them the right advice and to help them get in the right direction
00:27:45
Speaker
m I know Shelter is a brand that's really designed on activism. And this may be a slightly unfair question to you, given you've only been there 12 weeks. But do you think that that has changed over the years? Or is it still core to what the organisation does and is?
00:28:01
Speaker
Oh, it feels pretty core. And I love it. I loved my previous job. I've had some incredible jobs in charity sector. I've been really lucky. But this is the first organisation I've worked for that The campaigning is through everything. It's absolutely the core of who we are and where we came from and our history. And you can kind of feel it in the walls when you're in the buildings.
00:28:22
Speaker
I mean, our brand is a red paint slash in the shape of a roof. And part of the reason that was there was, you know, you can go and do a paint slash. And clearly that's something that's around kind of being an activist and and going and doing something about it and making change. And yeah, you can really, really feel that and feel that from the team.
00:28:42
Speaker
And I think it's really exciting. We are really, really impatient for the change that is really badly needed. And home is everything. It's how you build your family. It's how you put down roots in a community.
00:28:54
Speaker
It's the base on which you can find and sustain employment or get into education. And if you take that home away, then you take all of those other things away. So it's absolutely fundamental and That's why we are such passionate campaigners for change.
00:29:10
Speaker
Sarah, I'd love to hear more about what led you to Shelter. i mean, your passion for the cause absolutely shines through. Tell us more about your background and your career pathway that has brought you here.
00:29:22
Speaker
So i'd say the social sector was quite a big part of my childhood. My mum actually ran a charity shop, which has been really interesting since visiting some of Shelter's incredible charity shops.
00:29:34
Speaker
Did you work in the charity shop as a kid? I used to volunteer in steam clothes the odd Saturday when she didn't have enough volunteers. And so, I mean, it was a fantastic experience. My dad was a youth worker and also my brother was disabled.
00:29:49
Speaker
And I think that really influenced me. And when I was leaving education, all I really wanted to do was social change work. And I've always been just really passionate about social justice.
00:30:01
Speaker
Now I'm at Shelltop, it's my third CEO job. I can hardly believe that. It makes me feel quite old. And i think back over my career, and I think there's a few bits that probably were turning points. I think one was actually deciding to leave my first charity sector job. So my first charity sector job was as an admin assistant.
00:30:20
Speaker
And I left to go and do a management training scheme in local government. And I did that because at the time, such a thing didn't exist in the charity sector. It does now. There's plenty of graduate and management training routes into the sector but back then there wasn't needless to say I didn't actually last that long in local government it didn't suit me and I don't think I suited it but it did give me that real grounding in management as a discipline I guess I think my second sort of turning point was probably my first leadership role in the sector and I was on the leadership team at Inkind Direct which is actually a really incredible charity if you've not heard of Inkind Direct
00:30:55
Speaker
which is highlighting the lack of access to basic hygiene products in the UK. But it really gave me my first kind of feel of being part of the strategic leadership of an organisation, working with the board, working cross team.
00:31:08
Speaker
And then the third one was and NCVO and, you know, leading such an important organisation through the pandemic and the cost of living crisis and beyond. But what I would say is I think at NCVO, I really did miss being close to a cause. I'd worked in health charities and other cause-led charities before that.
00:31:26
Speaker
And so when I saw the shelter job come up and I'd been at NCVO for five years, it felt a good time to move on. And so here I am now. And what's actually interesting interesting, so I mentioned I worked in health charities. I did about eight years in health charities, really focusing on kind of health inequalities and neurology, so really overlooked and underserved health conditions. And actually, I'm increasingly finding quite a few parallels here with housing. So, for example, money is all held in different pots, which structurally disincentivises change, meaning that overall the public purse is wasting money rather than working systemically. And I you know i really see that as our job to point out where that money has been wasted and how you could change the system to be more preventative. And similarly, in health, we had an interesting relationship with the private sector, so the pharmaceutical companies in health. So we needed to work with them the same and way that in shelter, we need to work with the private sector who build houses. But we also want to work with them to kind of influence sort of beneficial change and influence the way in which they work, which can work against what we're trying to see. So there's been some interesting parallels I've come to shelter and been able to pick up on learnings from earlier in my career.
00:32:39
Speaker
I remember you saying to me a while ago that from quite early on in your career, you knew that you wanted to be a charity CEO. Yes. yes And you've talked about some of the highs already there through your career pathway. What accomplishments are you most proud of in your career to date?
00:33:01
Speaker
Lots, actually. And there some of the big things that people would probably know about because they were maybe in the news at the time. And then there's probably smaller things that are more personal to me. So i think like, I mean, I'll just give you one thing that really stands out. So before I became a CEO, I was more in the sort of policy world. And so I am a bit of a policy geek.
00:33:21
Speaker
And I do remember, I think it was at and NCVO, tweeting the Treasury to say, why are you not talking to charities when you're talking to business? It was at the peak of the cost living crisis. And then I got a phone call from a Treasury Minister that afternoon and i couldn't believe the power of like being able to send a tweet.
00:33:37
Speaker
So that sort of thing, you know, real career highlights. I mean, on the sort very last week I had at NCVO, i got to sit on stage with the Secretary of the State and launch the Civil Society Covenant and shake the Prime Minister's hand. And, you know, they're amazing. And, i you know, i feel incredibly fortunate that I had such amazing opportunities and I still kind of wonder how the girl from Scarborough ended up doing that but as I say there are some smaller things that are kind of probably like the less sort of showy things in the news but one of the things that I'm really passionate about is supporting other younger people young women in particular to also carve out careers in the charity sector and to succeed and I think of I won't mention them it's not fair but there's one or two young women who I've kind of mentored or championed over the years And then you see them go on to get their dream role or you see them on stage at a conference giving a speech. And I just love that. I think that's just so satisfying and actually as satisfying as some of the big policy wins or the BBC News or, the as I say, the things that are kind of probably more out there in the sector.
00:34:40
Speaker
Sarah, you and I both know that being a charity CEO can be hugely rewarding and it can also be a really tough gig. What are some of the misconceptions about the role of a charity CEO that you wish people knew and understood more?
00:34:54
Speaker
So when I was more junior, I used to think that leaders magically knew all the answers. And I genuinely remember when I worked at the Greater London Authority, so during my brief kind of stint in local government,
00:35:09
Speaker
I remember looking at my director and thinking that she was doing that role because she somehow was clever enough or experienced enough to always know what to do. Now, I now know that was a very wrong misconception. And of course, like the more times you lead, the more the similar issues crop up. You can learn from experience.
00:35:29
Speaker
And actually, even now, there's the odd time I think to myself, wow, I actually know how to do this CEO thing. I've done this thing before. But more often than not, we are coming across situations that we've not had to deal with. The context might be slightly different from last time. And you're just making the best decision you can with the best information you have in front of you. And that's why, as leaders, we need to surround ourselves with people who know different things to us. And I've inherited the most incredible team at Shelter.
00:35:57
Speaker
who have the most diverse skills across them. And they look at the world from a different perspective to me and they come up with different ideas. And that means you're more likely to make good decisions. But it's not because I always know what to do.
00:36:11
Speaker
and I do actually, one of my real bugbears is that everybody kind of will vilify politicians for U-turns. But I kind of think, why don't we celebrate the value of learning and being accountable for changing your mind? Because you've got some new information, so you are going to change course of action.
00:36:27
Speaker
So yeah, that would be my biggest thing. i used to think leaders knew all the answers and now I know that they rarely do. They're just making the best decision they can in that moment in time.
00:36:39
Speaker
I completely agree with you. The value of being able to course correct is really critical, particularly in leadership roles. If you could change something about the charity sector, perhaps to do with governance, what would that be?
00:36:54
Speaker
there's loads of things. I could get really geeky here. But thinking really broadly and naturally and also thinking about shelter and what I want to do with shelter over the next time, i think we need to be longer term.
00:37:09
Speaker
and less firefighting. And that's really hard, because to be genuinely long term, and to kind of not be using lots of your energy on firefighting, we need different funding models, we need to think about the role of charities differently, you asked me about the role of charities in relation to the state.
00:37:27
Speaker
So we can kind of really focus on those root causes and not be putting sticking plasters on, you know, shelter is doing both right now, you know, The number of people being pushed into temporary accommodation is going up and up and up. So we're obviously there to support people experiencing homelessness today.
00:37:42
Speaker
But we're also trying to get a new generation of social housing built. And that's a lot to do. And so, yeah, I think if we're ever going to be truly long term as a sector, we do need different funding practices. You know, we don't want to be working on the sort of day to day problems just to tick grant requirement boxes. we need to be properly paid for the work we do for government. We can't be subsidising the contracts or even doing the work that they used to do.
00:38:07
Speaker
I also think it means we need to be more collaborative so we can really come together around those systemic issues rather than competing for money and competing for profile. And again, that firefighting approach pushes us to be more competitive rather than collaborative.
00:38:21
Speaker
And then the final thing I think I'd say, and we've talked a bit about power, but I think if we're going to be genuinely long term, we do also need to think about shifting power. So people and communities are genuinely part of the way that we make decisions.
00:38:33
Speaker
So you mentioned a couple of times the landscape for funding and competing for funding. How does that interweave with the fundraising campaigns that all organisations need to do. Shelter is going to be launching a Christmas campaign, a Winter Appeal soon. How do you see that intersecting with what every charity needs to do in terms of raising funds with the broader financial challenges across the sector?
00:38:59
Speaker
It is a really tough time for the whole sector. And I think we're having to do more just to stand still in terms of raising money. i mean, you mentioned the Winter Appeal. If you've not seen in Shelter's Winter Appeal, go and watch it. It is a tearjerker. It's beautiful.
00:39:13
Speaker
And actually, I think it recently scored above the John Lewis Christmas advert in, ah can't remember which newspaper it was, but they did a sort of top 10 Christmas ads and ads came above John Lewis. So if that's not an advert for going to watch it. I know, I was really chuffed about that. I say I was, of course, nothing to do with me, as ever, the fantastic fundraising team.
00:39:34
Speaker
But yeah, i mean, we've got a really great, well, again, I have inherited a really great diverse income portfolio. i mentioned we have a chain of charity shops. We've taken really strategic decisions in recent years about where we have those charity shops and why we hold lots of local contracts and some national contracts. And again, you need to be very strategic in deciding we've got a really careful decision process before we take on a new contract to make sure it's not mission creep and it's genuinely helping us to work towards solving the housing emergency.
00:40:07
Speaker
And then we have the kind of broader range of of fundraising disciplines that you'd expect from kind of direct giving, through to high net worth philanthropy. And I have had so much fun going out and learning about all of our different fundraising. Meeting the street fundraising teams, I think it was in Bristol, was like an absolutely fantastic experience.
00:40:27
Speaker
Sarah, I'd like to ask a little bit more about your approach and reflections on leadership. You are obviously a seasoned charity chief executive and have a lot of leadership experience. What's it like being a new CEO with a new organisation and how do you bring the best of your personal leadership ship to that whilst also being adaptive to what the organisation needs?
00:40:54
Speaker
Oh, that is a great question, Divya. And It's interesting, actually. i I spent a lot of time thinking about and preparing for this role. I've got a fantastic chair who was really, really generous with her time before I started as well, helping me kind of think through how I wanted to land and what i might want to do and how I want to spend the first hundred days, which I'm still in.
00:41:17
Speaker
But I don't think anything really prepared me. It's a very different game being promoted to CEO internally, which is what happened at NCVO, and joining as the new CEO. i think there's kind of pros and cons to both, you know, that you can kind of pull out. But there was a moment a few weeks in when, actually don't mind admitting this, it was almost a bit lonely, really. I was like, I'm the new girl, but I'm the boss.
00:41:39
Speaker
And i was still trying to kind of forge new relationships and get to know people while also establishing myself as the leader. And of course, when you get promoted internally, you don't have to do both of those things. You can just establish yourself as the leader. i mean there's a whole load of other challenges there around suddenly managing your peers or your former peers.
00:41:56
Speaker
So that's been quite interesting. And then i think what's been also has been interesting is every organisation has its way of doing things. And when you come in from the outside, particularly if you've kind of got lots of leadership experience elsewhere, you find yourself saying, why do we do it like that?
00:42:11
Speaker
And sometimes there's really good reasons and really good cultural reasons. And, you know, trying to absorb yourself from a new organisation's culture is a full-time job. And it's one of the main objectives I had for the last 12 weeks was really trying to understand how shelter works.
00:42:26
Speaker
And it's knowing when you bring some fresh insight that actually really could help and when you're too new to really know what you're talking about. And that's a real judgment call. And I think the best advice I was given on joining, and I'm still really trying to live by that, is listen for as long as possible. If you can get three months just listening and learning, then that will stand you in good stead for when you actually really start to make the decisions and steer the ship but of course you don't really get 100 days because people are looking to you as the leader straight away so yes it's been a really interesting experience and again the shelter team have been incredible particularly the internal comms team who've really helped me sort of land internally I've been doing this 100 day blog which sometimes gets to the end of the day and think oh no I've got to write my blog and I've done kind of all the other things that day
00:43:16
Speaker
But actually, it's been a really powerful way to connect with staff and also to kind of reflect and look back. What did I learn this week? What am i going to take into next week? So is this a weekly blog on every Friday that you send out?
00:43:29
Speaker
It's a kind of ask and when. I try to write it at least once a week. Sometimes if I do two or three quite exciting things in one week, I'll write two or three blogs in that week. And it's on the Internet for all of the shelter staff to read. which can be a bit disconcerting because then I meet people and they go, oh, I know that you think this thing because I read it in your blog, which is wonderful, though. It's brilliant to have that kind of communication channel. mean, shelter's huge. You know, we've got over a thousand staff. It's much bigger than any organization I have led before. And so internal comms is very different. You can't just call all staff together in one room. Yet I really do. My leadership style is very much about getting to know people and people getting to know me. very hard to do that with over a thousand staff so this is just one of the ways that I'm really trying to be that open leader that it's the only way i know how to lead to you yes indeed are there any other structures that you've used and you mentioned there that Shelter has over a thousand staff and starting as the new CEO it is quite hard for an organization of that size to really get to know you both as an individual and as a leader what else have you done in terms of communicating and reaching out to put your message out there?
00:44:36
Speaker
So in my first week, I did a fireside chat and that was physically at our headquarters in Old Street in London, but also it was live streamed via Teams. And so I think I looked up and I saw the Teams call. There was sort six, 700 people on the call, which I had a moment of, I'm not sure I've ever been on a Teams call speaking to 700 people before.
00:44:56
Speaker
And that was answering questions that have been posed in advance by any member of staff or any volunteer. And it ranged from kind of really serious stuff like what's your vision for shelter through to does pineapple belong on a pizza? But it was just a lovely way to kind of just be me and be authentic. And, you know, going back to your book answer in the icebreaker, that was one of the questions I was asked. And they gave me the questions in advance. And, you know, I took an active decision. I thought, do you know what, I'm not going to be anything they may or may not expect.
00:45:24
Speaker
I'm just going to be me. So I need to know the answer to this important question then, Sarah. Does pineapple belong on a pizza? What is your view? My answer was pineapple is better in a cocktail.
00:45:36
Speaker
I completely agree. Love that. And coming on, Sarah, then to our final question, what is one thing you would like people to take away from this conversation? Give us a final thought or reflection.
00:45:50
Speaker
I said it before I joined Shelter that I was joining because I was really excited to be joining an organisation that was not putting sticking plasters on the problems. We were tackling the root causes.
00:46:01
Speaker
And I think that would be my key mantra for leaders in the sector. Going back to my kind of firefighting thing, I think it's really hard right now. It's very hard not to just be fighting the fires that you see in front of you.
00:46:12
Speaker
But I think we all need to stay absolutely focused on that North Star of what would it mean to put ourselves out of business? What would mean shelter doesn't need to be here anymore? And we know what the answer to that is. We need to build and a generation of social homes and That's what me and the team are going to be working to do.
00:46:30
Speaker
Sarah Elliott, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you back on the Charity CEO podcast. Thank you.
00:46:39
Speaker
Well, that's a wrap on another inspiring episode of the Charity CEO Podcast. I hope today's conversation left you feeling empowered and uplifted. I know it did for me. If you loved what you heard, please share the joy by leaving us a quick review on your favorite podcast platform.
00:46:54
Speaker
Reviews really help us reach more listeners and grow this amazing community of change makers. Be sure to also hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode. And for even more inspiration and resources, head on over to thecharityceo.com.
00:47:09
Speaker
There, you can dive into our past episodes from the last five seasons and find valuable content to help fuel your impact. Thank you for listening. And remember, together, we're building a better world.
00:47:21
Speaker
See you next time.