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Episode 736 - HickMania I: Dark Reign Fantastic Four
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HickMania begins this week with what very much feels like a prologue to not just Jonathan Hickman's Fantastic Four run, but maybe...his whole Marvel saga? And yet it still feels like it's a little too long.
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Transcript
Introduction and Zencastr Promotion
00:00:00
Speaker
This show is recorded using Zencaster. If you are a podcaster or you want to be a podcaster and you want to be able to record remotely, you can do so using Zencaster.
00:00:12
Speaker
They also have hosting options and you can let them know that we sent you. Follow the link in our show notes or in the episode description and sign up for an account on Zencaster now to start recording your own podcast.
00:00:28
Speaker
Right as I'm bored. What plaything can you offer me today?
00:00:39
Speaker
got more rocket Ajax to bring back his body. Terminate exit. Go slow.
Meet the Hosts: Chris Sims and Matt Wilson
00:00:53
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to War Rocket Ajax. This is the internet's most explosive comic book and pop culture podcast and we are your hosts. My name is Chris Sims. With me as always is Matt
Battle Themes and Cultural References
00:01:07
Speaker
Wilson.
00:01:07
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And Matt, if I was in JRPG, if I was a a the the lead character in a Japanese role-playing game for a video game system,
00:01:24
Speaker
Unspecified. and um so Cross-platform, probably. yeah Definitely on Steam. Probably also on Switch 2. Sure. So they gotta give me a Switch 2.
00:01:39
Speaker
ah But if I was in one, I think the battle theme would be the song Like Hell by Loudness.
00:01:51
Speaker
Matt, what would your battle theme be in the Matt Wilson JRPG? It would obviously be Bombs Over Baghdad. Okay, see, I thought that might be your your answer, but I'm not fully convinced that would be good battle music.
00:02:10
Speaker
Whether it would or not, it would be my battle music. I can i guess so. like What I'm imagining is that it is just an outcast theme. rpg And I'm not actually the lead character. Okay, well, Matt, that is not what the question was.
00:02:26
Speaker
You understand the problem here is that you are not answering the question. Although, now that I am thinking about it, i like what got me with this is like it can't just be like a good song, right? It has to have like that like that strong opening. Uh-huh, yeah.
00:02:42
Speaker
Like, you know, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Or the ah or or like the Persona 5 battle theme opening. the button and ah da la da And then it's got to kind of like have like it's got to be like a fast song that has that beat.
00:03:01
Speaker
If you're not familiar with Like Hell by Loudness off the album Thunder in the East, look that one up and tell me that's not just basically JRPG battle music already.
00:03:12
Speaker
I mean, that's that's pretty good. that Also, Loudness owns... Yeah, man. Some people don't know about Loudness, and they should. ah Japanese hair metal band. They're great.
00:03:24
Speaker
But like i guess I guess Bombs are Bad does have that, like, you know, the count in. Yeah. And then it's all just... it's It all just hits the ground running. Uno dos tres, it's on.
00:03:35
Speaker
Listen, I'm just imagining like a three-man party where it's me and Andre and Big Boy. What are the circumstances, Matt? Well, I fall into it, and then I spend the rest of the game being like, holy shit, I can't believe I'm on a ah journey without cast.
00:03:56
Speaker
And then like maybe Pimp C and Bun B are there. like They join the party eventually. RIP to Pimp C. RIP Pimp C, yeah. I gotta say, it's wild that the RPG of your life Does not seem to include Marlene Thompson.
00:04:18
Speaker
i didn't say it was of my life. I said, it this is a heres a fantasy story. You're the main character. but that what Right, it's all about me meeting ah the legends of Atlanta hip-hop.
00:04:31
Speaker
Hang on, I do kind of like the idea of you getting isekai'd to Atlanta in 1998. That actually seems kind of fun. Yeah, the Youngbloods are there, gotta ride dirty on 85. It's gonna be great.
00:04:43
Speaker
Matt Wilson's Purple Ribbon All-Stars?
00:04:47
Speaker
ah We got a great show for everybody this week.
Introducing Hickmania: Jonathan Hickman's Marvel Work
00:04:51
Speaker
Hickmania is kicking off. With this episode of War Rocket Ajax, we're going to be talking about issues 1-5 of Dark Reign Fantastic Four.
00:05:02
Speaker
not Not the very first of Jonathan Hickman's Marvel work, but a a starting point for our exploration of Jonathan Hickman's Marvel work.
00:05:13
Speaker
we We skipped S.H.I.E.L.D. and Secret Warriors. Yeah. And that one Nakantu the Living Mummy story. Because I've read most of Secret Warriors, and I think I read a good amount of S.H.I.E.L.D.
00:05:28
Speaker
So we're just going to start with the FF stuff in Dark Ring Fantastic Four. Yeah, and I think we will we will be pointing out why this is a good place to start this particular experiment when we get there, but I'm very excited.
00:05:43
Speaker
It is very much the start. ah it's it's kind of it It reads like a prologue. in very many ways. i have some I have some thoughts about what it reads like.
00:05:54
Speaker
Okay. ah But we'll get to
Supporting the Podcast: Patreon and Listener Engagement
00:05:56
Speaker
that in a little bit. Chris, before we get to that, um we do have some business to take care of here at the start of the show. The first piece of business is thanking our newest supporters over on Patreon.
00:06:07
Speaker
That's right, Matt. Now, these are the people who wanted to support the show. And what did they do? They didn't go down to 736 Gimmick Street. They didn't need no kettlebells.
00:06:19
Speaker
What they did was they went to patreon.com slash warrocketajax, where they kicked in as little as a dollar a month. One American dollar a month. That's where it starts.
00:06:31
Speaker
To help us out, to help support this show, to help support ah the side project shows we do, like the the great new episode of Comics Catch-Up, which is ah one of my favorite discussions we've had about ah about those in a hot minute.
00:06:45
Speaker
To help us do movie fighters, to help us do all the fun stuff that's out there. ah here on the Klytus Media Podcasting Network. And most importantly, help us pay those gimmicks they keep sending in the mail called bills.
00:06:57
Speaker
And at certain levels, the $15 level and above, you can become a member of the Gimmick Street Preservation Society.
00:07:08
Speaker
That's right. One person did actually go down to 736 Gimmick Street. yeah guess I need to change the pattern a little bit. They have gone down to 736 Gimmick Street and named it and and decided what is at that location, at that address on Gimmick Street. And for 736 Gimmick Street, we have this from Michael Francis.
00:07:35
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Michael's contribution to the Gimmick Street Preservation Society is a statue of red, white, and blue All-American Sting from Great American Bash 1992. To commemorate the time that Chris's mom worked little Chris into believing Sting had successfully retained the WCW World Heavyweight Championship in a match against Big Van Vader.
00:07:54
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My own mother kayfaved me.
00:07:59
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It's still not clear to this day if she just did not understand what was happening or if she just wanted me to be happy. You know, yeah i would I would accept either one.
00:08:11
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I would accept either one. Honestly, you never know with Debbie. Debbie always keeps you guessing. Yeah. ah that's great That's a great... I gotta say, the 730 block of Gimmick Street is about as weird as city streets come.
00:08:28
Speaker
But I like it. There's not a lot of buildings. Not a lot of buildings. there's There's a sewer, there's a statue, there's like memorials, um not a lot of buildings.
00:08:39
Speaker
Yeah. but But it's a good one. it's a It's a great – I think that's where the Gimmick Street Greenway goes. Yeah, I think you're right. is the bike area of Gimmick Street. The bike path next to the river that leads to the bridge where Phil Collins saw that guy, saw that guy. Saw that guy, see that guy.
00:08:58
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And where Master Roshi lives.
00:09:03
Speaker
Chris, here's our newest Patreon ah member. Jennifer Raines. Oh, thank you, Jennifer. Now, keep that name in mind. Keep that name in mind. Matt, what's your check?
00:09:16
Speaker
Because I know what mine is. Well, we might have a shared check then, ah because I was going to bring i was going to break that up as well. Yeah, yeah ah we're we're on the same wavelength here.
00:09:28
Speaker
We're united. And it feels so good. Thank you, Jennifer. If you would like to be like Jennifer and help us out here on the show, you can go over to patreon.com slash warrocketajax and kick in as little as $1 per month to make sure that we do this show every single week, that we do monthly every story, every specials, that we do comics catch-ups.
00:09:48
Speaker
People have had a lot to say about the Grendel Devil by the Deed comics catch-up. I do like that most people are kind of agreeing with us that this is but it's it's kind of homework for the rest of Grendel.
00:10:03
Speaker
Right. it it' They're telling us other Grendel stories to read. they're They're saying that the the police officer who has that tragic ending um got put into Devil by the Deed Master's Edition because she shows up in a later Grendel story.
00:10:21
Speaker
ah So that explains that. but Buddy, I'll tell you though, I got a text message from a friend of ours. I got a text message from our buddy Kathy Leamy that was like, can't wait for y'all to read Cry for Dawn.
00:10:36
Speaker
I think we might need to read Dawn because i looked through some Cry for Dawn and it's it's basically an anthology book. Hey, look, we'll we'll get it done. We'll get it done. I just don't you want to miss anything, you know?
00:10:49
Speaker
That's true. We've got to make sure we've got it all. Anyway, you can also support not only Every Story Ever and Comics Catch Up, but also Movie Fighters and Snack Situation.
00:11:00
Speaker
All of those shows are made possible by your support on Patreon. And as a patron... At whatever level, you get every episode of every show that we do um completely ad-free. At the $5 level and above, you get bonus content. That's stuff that we record, especially for the Patreon. That's outtakes that I cut out of the show and put on Patreon.
00:11:23
Speaker
That's writing that Chris and I have done exclusively for Patreon. If you... bump up to the $5 level or join at the $5 level or higher, you can access the entire backlog of bonus content that we have made there over the years. At the $10 level, you get line-stepping privileges for our segments, which currently include Every Story Ever and 1 to 10 of Swords.
00:11:48
Speaker
At the $15 level, you get to join the Gimmick Street Preservation Society. And at the $20 level, you get a t-shirt. I, just today, the very day that we are recording this episode, sent out every single 2025 t-shirt.
00:12:04
Speaker
I am so excited to get mine in the mail. Yours is coming. ah All the t-shirts are are mailed out. And on the way to to everybody. So hopefully, if you're at the that that level, you will get your shirts shortly.
00:12:19
Speaker
Shortly. Shortly. um If you're at the $20 and above level and haven't sent me your address or size for your t-shirt, you can still do that. I still have shirts in pretty much every size. Right.
00:12:38
Speaker
left So let me know if you're at the $20 and above level, if you still want a t-shirt, um because I could still make that happen for you. so But everyone who sent me a size should be getting a shirt pretty soon.
00:12:55
Speaker
If you're unable to help us monetarily, you can help us out in other ways. You can send us – well, you can leave us a five-star review on the podcasting app that you use, whatever that may be. That would help us out a whole bunch.
00:13:07
Speaker
Or you can give us some good word of mouth, spread the word about the show, let your friends and family know to listen to this podcast, War Rocket Ajax, and maybe they can back our Patreon and help get and keep those numbers up.
00:13:24
Speaker
over there on our Patreon. Chris, with that, it's time for
Personal Updates and Recommendations
00:13:30
Speaker
some checks and recs. What do you say? Let's do it.
00:13:36
Speaker
All right, Chris, you indicated that we might have a shared check. And this is very important. Yes. they Matt, we've been doing this show for a long time. We have. We've been doing it.
00:13:50
Speaker
Well, the show has existed since 2009, and I've been on it since 2010 as co-host. yeah you've but you've been You've been here for 15 years, buddy.
00:14:01
Speaker
that's That's correct, yes. we've been we've been We've been doing this show. We've outlasted Monday Nitro.
00:14:10
Speaker
By a lot, yeah, by a lot. By by quite a bit. yeah Outlasted Thunder by a good ah good bit. But sometimes... It falls to us to do the things that nobody else is going to do.
00:14:22
Speaker
That's true. we Sometimes we find out that there's something going on and nobody's dealing with it. We have responsibilities.
00:14:34
Speaker
Yeah. And we take those responsibilities seriously. So here's what I'm telling you, Matt. What are we doing here not getting Jennifer a sword?
00:14:45
Speaker
We... Okay. Jen... Started contributing to our Patreon, joined our Patreon, and immediately sent a message on Patreon saying, what's the best way to email you?
00:14:59
Speaker
And I provided her with the the email address. Now, to be fair, we do say it on every episode of the show. That's true. It's warrocketpodcast.gmail.com. That's fine. That's fine.
00:15:10
Speaker
and I can't blame Jen for being maybe a little too distraught about what's going on to to catch when you give our our email address at the end of every episode.
00:15:23
Speaker
It's near the end. yeah Some people don't listen to the end pattern, and I understand. They should. It's not like we stop being funny. That's true. Great point. So then we get an email from Jen.
00:15:35
Speaker
Subject line, listener request. And Chris, i will I will just read the email verbatim. if I think you should, because this is important, and it's important for people to know certain details that we got in this email.
00:15:48
Speaker
Dear Mr. Chris Sims and Mr. Matt Wilson, I am writing ploying you for assistance. I have recently been listening to your segments on the War Rocket Ajax podcast in relation to raiding swords.
00:16:00
Speaker
As a longtime lover of swords, I have expressed to my partner that I would like to own a sword. However, after nearly four years, this deed has gone unfulfilled. Four years.
00:16:12
Speaker
I have listened to every episode of Apocrypals going on my 38th time through. Okay, alright, I don't know that you needed to say that. I mean, look, maybe, look, after 38 times of Apocrypals, that's when you really, that's when you're really prepared for Friends to the End.
00:16:32
Speaker
and And every episode of Warrock and Ajax, 38 times. Don't do that. Please don't do that. Please don't do that. There's way too many to do that. Don't even listen to every episode of War Rocket Ajax once.
00:16:44
Speaker
Honestly. And have become a regular listener of War Rocket Ajax since the introduction of SWORD content. It's bringing in new listeners, Chris. I mean, I will say, that was not the introduction of SWORD content, I assure you, but I get what you mean. like it which it was It was the formalization of SWORD content, we'll say. it was We really, really front-loaded the SWORD content.
00:17:07
Speaker
This year. I humbly request that you ask my partner, and I'm going to name and shame here. I think you should.
00:17:18
Speaker
Christopher Cole. That's my name. First name. To gift me a sword. He knows many people who make and sell swords, so access is not a problem. He knows many people who make and sell swords.
00:17:30
Speaker
So access is not a problem.
00:17:33
Speaker
Thank you so much for considering my request and helping me to become a sword owner. You're telling me four years of somebody saying, you know, I'd like a sword. And you know you got Ghetto the Blacksmith on speed dial?
00:17:53
Speaker
and And people aren't getting swords? Christopher. So here's here's here's what i'm here's what I'm suggesting. Okay. Christopher, we're going to give you... not everybody is caught up on the show, and I understand that.
00:18:10
Speaker
So we are going to give you over a month until the end of September to give us proof that you have provided Jen with a sword.
00:18:24
Speaker
And it better be a good one. If we do not get such proof by such time, we will activate. Oh, buddy. You don't want us to activate.
00:18:37
Speaker
We will activate our listener base, and we will crowdfund Buying Jen a sword. Well, hang on, don't say that, because that's a real incentive to not do it.
00:18:53
Speaker
You're telling me if I don't do this, someone gets a free sword? No, don't do that, Matt. Well, okay. Okay. we will We will go to every effort to make sure that Jen gets a sword by whatever means jean Jen needs to get a sword. That is not what I thought you meant by activating. i will i will tell you that for free. I thought we were going to go fucking ghost protocol.
00:19:13
Speaker
What does that mean? i Hey, you don't ask questions you don't want the answers to. Okay. i we we We will make some effort to make sure that Jen gets a sword.
00:19:24
Speaker
i'll put I'll leave it at that. the The thing that gets me is many people who make and sell swords. Many people. Not just he knows a guy who makes swords, which would be enough.
00:19:37
Speaker
Also, Matt, you're being so generous giving to the end of September. I would i was going to give till Tuesday. we we We were going to do this on Amy Mann Time.
00:19:51
Speaker
I think it's fair to give a few weeks to make it happen, because, like, you know, they've got to make the sword. Yeah, but I mean, a lot of people do have swords. Many swords are not made to order in today's non-samurai-based economy.
00:20:08
Speaker
That's fair. But, you know, i think it would be nice for Jhin to get a custom sword. i agree that that would be nice. Now, I will say, i would like...
00:20:21
Speaker
a further piece of information from Jen, which is, is there like a custom sword or is there like a specific sword? Like, do you want an on drill? Do you want a master sword?
00:20:35
Speaker
Like, what's the, like, what's the vibe here? Or is it like, Hey, in a, in a, you know any sort will do four years, four years. And you know, people making swords.
00:20:48
Speaker
Look, i I brought up the crowdfunding thing. like I understand that that might be an incentive of, oh, I don't have to pay for it. But also, then somebody else did it.
00:20:59
Speaker
Yeah, then somebody else did it. And it becomes a shame sword. Yeah. So, you know, clock's ticking. Clock's ticking, bud. Jen, thank you for getting in touch. this is the This is the kind of... Look, we cannot fulfill every request of someone who wants help getting an item.
00:21:23
Speaker
But this one?
00:21:25
Speaker
This one we... This one... i do note that she did not specify if if ah Christopher is a listener, so... i yeah Yeah, I don't... I believe I recognize the name, but... I'm assuming so. It's partially my name, going happen. I'm assuming so, because why else would we be able to put pressure? The pressure's on, baby.
00:21:51
Speaker
The pressure's on. um One quick... H is O.
00:21:57
Speaker
OTS. One other quick... On the sword. what i Obviously, I got it. I got it. One other quick check that I want to ah insert here. just a quick It's just a quick story.
00:22:10
Speaker
um This past weekend, I went to camp. It was a camp for adults. Adults who do improv. So don't you know it was fun. um Wow. but yeah It was outside in the summer and there was improv.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yeah. Actually, there was no formal improv. There were mostly just games. But anyway, I decided for fun on the Saturday that I would go fishing. And ah boy, did I get sunburned. i am sunburned all over still.
00:22:36
Speaker
That is my check. ah Matt, you got a sunscreen, bud. I put some on and it did I still got sunburned. It's 2025, Matt. You got to be a little more conscientious about that.
00:22:48
Speaker
Look, I tried.
00:22:52
Speaker
Typhers recommendations, what do you have to recommend, Chris? Matt, as you know, I have been on a a quest. not Not a quest for swords, but isn't life a quest for swords?
00:23:05
Speaker
when you're me aqua You've been on a quest for glory, too? I've been on a king's quest, too. I've been pointing and clicking all over the place. yeah I've been on a quest to to make my tabletop role-playing games as rich and immersive as possible for the the two groups that I'm running a game for right now.
00:23:30
Speaker
ah One of which includes ah new local pals, Evie and Aaron, formerly of Awesome Buy Comics, running a game for them and they're in their kid having a real good time.
00:23:42
Speaker
ah But I have been getting maps, miniatures, all kinds of stuff And I've also been reaching out to companies like CZYY, like 1985 Games, who have provided me with some stuff to use and to talk about here on the show.
00:23:58
Speaker
And the latest set of that to come in, a company that was nice enough to send some stuff over, is Dirt Cheap Dungeons. And if you, like me, art are cheap, then you probably like the sound of that.
00:24:14
Speaker
ah I got in touch with them. They sent over some stuff. What they do is they make ah terrain and walls, ah sets where you can build castles. Very, very cool stuff.
00:24:26
Speaker
ah They sent over a box that has ah castle walls, doors, rounded walls, and ah in what I thought was kind of the coolest thing, little clear acrylic planks that Divided into inches that you can stack on top to make multi-level castles.
00:24:46
Speaker
I thought that was awesome. oh They've got a ton of different stuff. I think I'm going to get a lot of use out of the terrain set that they sent. The way that they make ah hills is very cool.
00:24:58
Speaker
ah They've got three different sizes of hills that ah the pieces actually nest in each other, so they're easy to store. But ah everything but the top... is scored in ah inch squares, so you can use them as terrain without having to worry about ah additional marking or anything, or you can just use them as scenery if you put the top piece on.
00:25:20
Speaker
ah They make a set of walls. This is what got me. They make a set of walls specifically for the HeroQuest board game, so you can add walls to HeroQuest, which I think is delightful. Wow. ah Because you know I love HeroQuest.
00:25:34
Speaker
And ah another thing they sent over was a prototype. ah This actually is not out yet at the time of recording and at the time of this episode coming out. They sent over a very prototype of their new pillar set, which ah they included a note that said it was compatible with major building block systems.
00:25:53
Speaker
Now, Matt, you know I love major building block systems. what What I always say about you is that guy loves major building blocks. Right. Yes. So, uh, there are included some very major building block system-esque, uh, like torches and flames you can put in.
00:26:10
Speaker
But that means if you have a lot of major building blocks from Europe... We all know about MBBs.
00:26:22
Speaker
MBBs, yeah. All caps.
00:26:26
Speaker
Uh... if you if you have some If you happen to have some some Danish building blocks, ah that you can use these for all kinds of stuff. They're really cool, and they are actually pretty cost-effective. And unlike a lot of the stuff that you're going to find on like eBay, or even if you go on like Amazon and look around, ah they're not like just 3D-printed things. They're actually injection-molded. So they're a little bit sturdier than 3D-printed stuff.
00:26:55
Speaker
They look... ah They look good out of the box, but you can also i'll paint them if you want. They've got a ton of really cool stuff, and I'm really glad that they sent it over. And I'm really enjoying... like i built I spent like a Saturday building a little castle, and then waiting for AC to get home and going, like, look!
00:27:17
Speaker
Look, it's a castle! And she at least claimed to think it was very cool. So... Definitely check that out. You can find them at DirtCheapDungeons.com. They're also available at ah the Bad Bookstore website and other places.
00:27:31
Speaker
oh Really, really cool stuff, and stuff that will come together pretty quickly as well. easy peasy to set up and store. And I like the, the boxes they come in as well as for storage.
00:27:45
Speaker
That's a, that's a big challenge for me of getting into like miniatures and actual tabletop scenery stuff is getting storage for everything. And these actually have, you know, boxes with compartments and handles that you can use for storage and transport.
00:28:01
Speaker
So ah check them out. Like I said, they were nice enough to send some over. ah And I actually do really like them. i I do not talk about stuff on the show that I don't actually like. So ah check them out.
00:28:13
Speaker
DirtcheapDungeons.com Matt, what do you have to recommend for the people? I have a YouTube channel and specifically a YouTube video ah to recommend.
00:28:25
Speaker
Now, Chris, um I take pride in the fact that um I have never...
00:28:35
Speaker
Voluntarily watched um a second of um the Joe Rogan podcast. ah Nor nor i I have had to find small clips for work purposes in the past, but ah for leisure purposes, I have never ah watched any of it. And I have very little familiarity with the the kind of comedy universe around it.
00:28:59
Speaker
But... ah YouTube kept recommending to me this video called How Comedy Was Destroyed by an Anti-Reality Doomsday Cult. Sounds fun.
00:29:12
Speaker
Alright, let's see what this is. It is on a channel called The Elephant Graveyard. And from what I can tell, the creator of these videos is is a Canadian guy with a very kind of like
00:29:28
Speaker
laid back
00:29:31
Speaker
Gonzo journalism kind of persona. ah He reminds me of Caleb Horton. If you've ever read any of Caleb Horton's writing, it kind of has that vibe about it.
00:29:46
Speaker
So to be clear, not like Joe Rogan at all. Yeah, the the total opposite of Joe Rogan. um And in fact, it is... ah the most intricate, smart, and well laid out, uh, takedown of Joe Rogan as a figure and the comedy cult around him as a phenomenon that I've ever seen.
00:30:11
Speaker
It's great. Uh, and there's a whole section on it in it about, um, Tony Hinchcliffe and specifically the kill Tony show. And at one point, it makes the comparison of – there's a good chunk of it about being like um how but pro wrestling having to have kayfabe to exist.
00:30:33
Speaker
And this Joe Rogan cult also having to have kayfabe to exist. Where they all like – their version of selling is by laughing at jokes that aren't funny.
00:30:44
Speaker
Okay. Like a wrestler has to take a worked punch and sell it, they laugh at jokes that aren't funny. um But there's one bit where he's talking about the show Kill Tony, and he says, Pro wrestling is fun theater described as violent or disguised as violence.
00:31:05
Speaker
Kill Tony is violence disguised as fun theater. Interesting. It's really good. It's like a 90 minute long video, but very, very much worth watching. It made me understand what is happening with that whole thing in a way I had never understood it before. And it is also like, I don't know, I feel like it has the potential, because of the way it's presented, deprogram
00:31:37
Speaker
but deprogram people who are in that. You know? Like, if you know if you have friends who like love Joe Rogan, or who watch Kill Tony or whatever, you could show them this video, and I feel like if anything could convince them
00:31:57
Speaker
to to you know get out of it, this would be what would do it. ah So, anyway, that's that's my recommendation. the the The channel The Elephant Graveyard, which has a lot of videos about, like,
00:32:11
Speaker
comedy as it exists now generally but also that one video in particular um which is part of a series of videos about the same thing but but that's that i feel like is really the kind of magnum opus uh so that's my rick with that chris it's time to talk about some of the comics of the week let's do it
00:32:37
Speaker
I would say that the texter's choice for this week, Chris, is Crypto No. 3. Yes, by the worst writer in comics, Ryan North.
00:32:49
Speaker
An agent of the devil who used the infinite gift of human imagination to imagine what if a very good dog was sad.
00:33:04
Speaker
He also saves the life of a little girl. Yeah, but why is he still sad? Now, if if it wasn't for the fact that this dog is sad, and I should say, ah Ryan North and Mike Norton, a dog drawer of some renown.
00:33:22
Speaker
Great talent, yeah. oh Honestly, ah hate that Mike Norton is so good, because he's good at making this dog look sad, and I hate it.
00:33:36
Speaker
it's it pains me. But were it were it not about a sad dog, I would say, like, oh, this is a really well-written story about a dog rescuing a girl ah and has some really cool stuff that, like
00:33:51
Speaker
like, when Crypto's finally in enough sunlight to get his superpowers, like, that shit owns. Also, the little girl is wearing a red jacket.
00:34:03
Speaker
Yes. And she's, like, Draped around k Crypto's neck. Or she's got like her arms around his neck. So when she's running or when he's running with her on his back, she looks like a cape.
00:34:16
Speaker
Yes. Yes, but that that part's very good. Why didn't Crypto stay with that nice family?
00:34:25
Speaker
Why didn't Crypto stay with those nice people? i don't know. He he he wandered out. I mean, look, I know why. It's because Crypto's got a place to be.
00:34:36
Speaker
we also get something in this issue. Yeah. his His work was done. he he stayed with the little girl until she got reunited with her parents, and then and then he left.
00:34:47
Speaker
But now he's alone and sad, and Biscuit should be in my bed. he's He's wandering down the street like so much Bill Bixby. Yeah, a like the Hulk.
00:34:59
Speaker
Yeah. God, do not... No one publish Immortal Crypto. I will not enjoy that book.
00:35:09
Speaker
In title, yes, I will enjoy it. In body horror, no thank you. but yeah like this Another one where I'm like, why why can't this book just be about him being happy?
00:35:21
Speaker
And having happy adventures and getting belly rubs and treats. Well, and you know, I think it's working its way up to it. but You know, everybody says that, Matt. That's what Ryan North said to me.
00:35:31
Speaker
He said, don't read as issue four until issue five comes out. Oh, wow. Okay. All right.
00:35:39
Speaker
Yeah, I'm now living in terror of the release of Crypto, the last dog of Krypton number four. Whoever thought that we would get here? Whoever thought that? Well, speaking of speaking of of ah the worst writer in comics, Ryan North, um he also wrote the new Marvel All-In-One.
00:36:02
Speaker
Yeah, ah Ryan North, great talent, one of the best, working today, ah doing this one with Ed McGinnis. ah Great book, right up our alley, exactly what we want to see. Yeah, Marvel All-In-One, The Thing vs. the Marvel Universe. It's weird how there's two guys with the same name.
00:36:19
Speaker
Yeah, writing comics. One of them wants to write stuff that is exactly what I want to see, and one of them wants to write stuff that I hate, because Crypto looks like my dog.
00:36:31
Speaker
This is ah comic that is mostly Ed McGinnis splash pages. It's entirely Ed McGinnis splash pages, except when it's double page splashes.
00:36:43
Speaker
I think there's at least one or two pages with panels, but It's mostly splash pages. And, man, is it's is real good. Yeah, man, it's the it's the thing fighting everybody.
00:36:58
Speaker
And until he gets the moon dropped on him. And then he has to that he has to to to settle up with the impossible man in the end.
00:37:10
Speaker
Yeah. It's also, it's established very early on that everybody thing's fighting is robots. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're not so real characters. It is wild violent.
00:37:24
Speaker
Like, he rips Iron Man's head off and some ah some suspiciously not-read substance, some some viscous liquid, yeah ah comes out.
00:37:37
Speaker
Well, first, he he he it's the whole Fantastic Four. It's Reed... And Sue and Johnny in two pages. Yeah, Reed gets popped like a balloon.
00:37:48
Speaker
yeah
00:37:51
Speaker
McGinnis definitely drew this book thinking that stuff would be colored red.
00:37:57
Speaker
but But there's also like robot parts and in inside. No, it's not it's it's not like Ed McGinnis drew this book thinking it was going to be really the thing killing everybody in the Marvel Universe. But I feel like I feel like when ah when the the coloring pass came back, he was probably like, huh, thought that would be red.
00:38:20
Speaker
I thought that would be a red viscous liquid. The ending is great, by the way. The last page where it's it's just Thing and and Alicia asleep in bed, um Thing is just like covered in bandages.
00:38:35
Speaker
Yeah, it's great. He's got this got a big old box of shorts on. What a hoot. What a hoot. all Great book. It's exactly what it says on the tin.
00:38:47
Speaker
It is the thing in... i i know you I know you said there might be a couple of panels. It's all splash pages. I'm 90% sure.
00:39:00
Speaker
But it's like 50 splash pages of the thing destroying stuff, which is great. And all I want out of comics. Great stuff. One last book that we're going to discuss discuss is Superman Unlimited number four, which is ah the comic where Superman becomes a man
Comic Discussion: Superman Unlimited and Dark Reign Fantastic Four
00:39:22
Speaker
bat.
00:39:22
Speaker
He becomes Superman bat. Superman bat. Because ah man bat who is not Kirk Langstrom, but one of his lab assistants...
00:39:36
Speaker
invents new version of the Man-Bat serum that is contagious, and he bites Superman, whose skin is penetrable because of kryptonite.
00:39:48
Speaker
Kryptonite jewelry that he came into contact with. And so he becomes Superman-Bat.
00:39:55
Speaker
This is the most Carrie Bates shit of all time. It's so Silver Age-y, and I was thinking... I mean, it even brings up, like... Yeah, Jimmy Olsen says, like, I've seen him with an ant head, with a lion head.
00:40:08
Speaker
Yeah. Like, brackets, complimentary, by the way. Oh, very much so, yeah. Like, this is the thing, you know, we've talked about Dan Slott and how, like, I keep forgetting how much I like Dan Slott's comics.
00:40:24
Speaker
But, like, one of the things that I really like about him is that every now and then he'll bust out shit like the Red Goblin. You know? Yeah. Where it's like, oh, yeah. like that's that That was right there, wasn't it?
00:40:36
Speaker
And Superman Bat is right there. And this story does it. What a good idea. Yeah, this is some of the most fun Superman stuff. like we There were a... ah the The DC books are have that big like Summer of Superman banner going across the top, and it's like... yeah Unlike a lot of those big banners they put across the top, this actually feels correct.
00:41:02
Speaker
yeah Because there were like three really great Superman comics out this week, including Crypto. um So there's... Dan Slott is the writer.
00:41:14
Speaker
Raphael Albuquerque is doing some of the art in this, but also Lucas Meyer. And I feel like it's a pretty big compliment to say, I can't really tell which is which. yeah ah it's It's all like of...
00:41:29
Speaker
Pretty equal quality. I mean, I can. If I look page by page, i I could tell who's doing what. But ah it's all quite good. And I love the Damian Wayne stuff in here.
00:41:43
Speaker
i love the Guerrilla City stuff in here. Tina, in particular, is is the Guerrilla character throughout this with Jimmy. um I love the fact that when...
00:41:57
Speaker
like the birds of prey get called in, Damien's like, you shouldn't have done that because so now other people are going to get turned into man bats and then Black Canary immediately does.
00:42:12
Speaker
but that's But that's also like a thing that I think you always have to give Dan Slott credit for is that there's always going to be like, the stories always make sense.
00:42:24
Speaker
Yeah. And the birds of prey getting called in That makes sense, and is also like a necessary part of the story for the next thing that happens. like It all builds very logically ah within the confines of a book where Man-Bat exists.
00:42:41
Speaker
yeah The internal consistency, I guess. It gets resolved very quickly, but it all does make sense. like The notion that he goes after Black Canary first because she's got her canary cry, which means that he's vulnerable to Sonics, and so...
00:42:58
Speaker
And so Jimmy's signal watch is the way to to make it to unbat Superman. Yeah, which is also in a super Silver Age plot resolution. But you know what?
00:43:10
Speaker
I like that. yeah I like that you know there's an ongoing story in here about like all the like the the new huge amount of kryptonite that's available in the world and how it's affecting Superman and the different ways that it can affect Superman.
00:43:25
Speaker
And yet it is a like single issue story where like a problem is introduced and it is a Superman problem and the guest starring characters need to solve it.
00:43:41
Speaker
And you get a a whole unit of comics in Superman Unlimited number four. And I like that. And I think that's something that Slott really excels at as a writer. And the art is ah pretty incredible.
00:43:57
Speaker
Here's my one question. yeah there's ah There's a thing in here about how... Like, the Daily Planet... Another element of this book is that the Daily Planet is expanding...
00:44:09
Speaker
Beyond just Metropolis. Yeah, they have they have ah bureaus now in other cities. Yeah. And in Gotham, someone keeps stealing the E from the... From the Daily Planet globe.
00:44:23
Speaker
From the globe on the top of the building. And so it says Daily Plant. And people keep guessing who that might be. And then we learn it's Damien.
00:44:34
Speaker
You think that's going to come back in any form? Or is that just a joke? I don't know if it's going to come back or if it's just Damien being like a little piece shit. But why is he stealing the E? Why is he making it say Daily Plant?
00:44:47
Speaker
Because he's a little asshole.
00:44:51
Speaker
Damien Wayne's a little asshole. Great point. It just feels like it's like a clue. You know? like Or it should be. ah But maybe not.
00:45:04
Speaker
All right, Chris, that's it for our comics review segment, which means it's time for us to dive in. It's Ickmania time. He's American-made. American-made.
00:45:14
Speaker
He's American-made. He's American-made. Dark Reign, Fantastic Four, number one, has a cover by Simone Bianchi.
00:45:27
Speaker
It is nuts.
00:45:33
Speaker
It's so like, and also it's the only one of these covers by Simone Bianchi, which I don't totally get. ah But whatever. ah It is interiors are penciled by Sean Chin, who does this whole miniseries with a script, obviously by Jonathan Hickman.
00:45:56
Speaker
And this story is called The Bridge.
00:46:01
Speaker
And it's about how hip-hop got its start out in Queensbridge. Well, okay. On the one hand, it is literally named after a device that Reed Richards builds in this, which he calls the bridge.
00:46:20
Speaker
But it is also definitely, in storytelling terms, a bridge between... The Fantastic Four of the mid to late 2000s.
00:46:35
Speaker
And the Hickman run.
00:46:40
Speaker
Yeah. but its yeah There is a lot of work being done in here to try to get out of these sort of difficult Reed Richards...
00:46:58
Speaker
of the mid to late 2000s, I was going to say starting with Civil War, but really it started before that. And sort of reform him into the ultimate problem solver that Hickman wants him to be.
00:47:12
Speaker
I mean, really, it starts in Fantastic Four number one. i mean Yes, yes, yes. but like like Really, it starts when ah when Ben goes, I'm what Susie called me, a thing.
00:47:24
Speaker
and then Reed goes, and I'll be Mr. Fantastic.
00:47:31
Speaker
This came out in 2009. March of to kind of revive... and
00:47:40
Speaker
yeah you're right it it's it's it's and attempt to kind of revive Reed from what he was at the start, but especially, feel like Reed especially went into dark territory ah few years before this, starting in Civil war Yeah, I mean, like, Reed is, ah if you don't remember, like, Reed's on the wrong side in Civil War, ah which was especially frustrating for me as someone who really likes ah the Walt Simonson run on FF and Acts of Vengeance,
00:48:12
Speaker
ah where Reed and the FF literally testify against a like mutant registration act. Yeah, and not only is he on the wrong side, he builds the robot Thor that kills Goliath.
00:48:27
Speaker
Yeah. its He got done real dirty as a character. and Civil War, for sure. In Civil War. And that Reed sort of persists, I feel, until this. And I feel like this story, in addition to being a prologue for the Hickman run on Fantastic Four, is also like the beginning of an attempt to rehab Reed Richards.
00:48:53
Speaker
Rehab Richards. Rehab Richards, yes. Yeah, like i can't I honestly... If we were a different show, Matt, I would have actually researched this, but like I honestly can't remember...
00:49:07
Speaker
Who was doing FF immediately before this? It was. Was it Miller? It was Mark Miller. Okay. So it was Mark Miller and I guess the Roberto Agrescasa run was around the same time?
00:49:22
Speaker
Yeah. i said the the The logo on the cover of this is the logo from the Miller run on Fantastic Four. Yeah.
00:49:33
Speaker
What a what a choice What a choice that was. I mean, the Miller run on Fantastic Four is that not the worst thing Miller's ever done.
00:49:46
Speaker
Well, no. It's kind of just forgettable more than anything. um Matt, i've had I've had meals that I got food poisoning from that I would not say are the worst meal I've ever had, either.
00:49:58
Speaker
Still a very unpleasant experience. Certainly so. That's that's that's true. um But like I think of Miller Comics, his run on Fantastic Four, I would call...
00:50:09
Speaker
um Pretty inoffensive. um but it was in my shit You might want to hold off on saying that unless you go back and read it I've read some of it recently for various reasons. and like It ain't good, but it's it's not you know again it's it's not the worst of the worst.
00:50:28
Speaker
I love how we all turn into Santa Claus as Detective Crashmore. It's not good. like I don't care, but it's not good.
00:50:42
Speaker
i don't care if you got tattoos. So this starts with Reed building his device, which he calls the bridge, and explaining that he's feeling guilt over the the things that have happened over the last little while, starting with Civil War, but then also into um Secret Invasion.
00:51:02
Speaker
And he's going to have to figure out how he can act more proactively to prevent bad things from happening.
00:51:15
Speaker
And then we get a bit where it's Valeria and Franklin and Franklin's in a cowboy outfit and Valeria's saying, like you gotta live in reality.
00:51:27
Speaker
and And then we're learning that
00:51:33
Speaker
the The Baxter building has essentially been entirely rebuilt after being partially destroyed, and so the Fantastic Four is like moving their stuff back in after that. And they've got Doombots that are helping them do that.
00:51:47
Speaker
Yeah. It took me a minute to kind of sort of remember why they got a bunch of Herbie Dr. Dooms.
00:51:56
Speaker
ah And it's because they have Dooms' face. they have like dr doom's face And I'm like, well, that's weird. yeah That's weird to have that around. That guy tried to kill you.
00:52:08
Speaker
But they've also got Herbie. They've also got Herbies. They also have actual Herbies, yeah. I do really like... I think Hickman gets Reed in a way that very few other writers do.
00:52:24
Speaker
ah Even like people that I would say are good Fantastic Four writers. like I feel like Hickman's take is unique. Because he kind of makes Reed creative.
00:52:37
Speaker
Which is that when the family goes into his lab, and they're like, hey, he's been... like he was supposed to do a bunch other stuff. And they come in and he's built this giant Stargate-looking thing.
00:52:51
Speaker
yeah ah They're like... Like Sue goes, I should have known. And Reed just looks up and goes, I had an idea. And I think the idea of like Reed Richards, when he has an idea, he has to see it through because Reed Richards' ideas are like a time machine.
00:53:17
Speaker
You know, like it's stuff that like you and I have both had the experience of we had an idea and we didn't write it down when we had it.
00:53:27
Speaker
Yeah. And now we don't remember it. Yeah. And what if that idea could save the entire world? I mean, I know mine won't, but... No, mine won't either. Mine is like, ask Matt a funny question at the start of this week's show.
00:53:42
Speaker
Or, like, buy coffee filters so you can actually make coffee. Yeah, yeah. It's like that. But you know what it's like. And I think casting Reed as someone, you know like, there's a part in this where he says, yeah, we're all slaves to our ideas.
00:53:57
Speaker
well and I don't think that's true for everybody. It is true for Reed Richards. And for people who are creatively minded. I think Hickman puts a lot of himself into his version of Reed, if I could read that in.
00:54:12
Speaker
i It's very difficult to... have met and hung out with Jonathan Hickman as much as you i have and and not think that, I'm trying not to think that.
00:54:27
Speaker
yeah it but like well Well, here's the thing. A lot of other writers will put Reed's personal life and his, for lack a better way of putting it, professional life at odds with each other.
00:54:41
Speaker
The old...
00:54:44
Speaker
the the old cliche about Reed is that he will neglect his family in favor of whatever big project he's got to work on, which is not always how Reed is portrayed, but it has been how Reed has been portrayed in the past.
00:55:00
Speaker
yeah This is a Reed who when he feels compelled to do something, it's not in spite of his family, it is for his family. Yeah.
00:55:15
Speaker
And he thinks he like he tells Sue at at one point, like how many times have you told me my mind is a gift?
00:55:25
Speaker
And if I can't use it and make the world a better place for you and everybody else in it, then I'm not using the gift that I have. Yeah, it's... yeah but I think that casting this like from the start as... not just as a Dark Reign tie-in, but as a like a direct response to and evolution of oh like the Civil War and Secret Invasion... like
00:55:58
Speaker
Reed Richards is suffering under a burden because he is like quantifiably the smartest human being alive, which means that things are fucked up because he hasn't fixed them.
00:56:11
Speaker
Right, and and he has even made some bad decisions, and he's he's thinking about, like, how can i not how can I avoid that in the future? And even and instead of causing problems or contributing to problems – proactively solving them.
00:56:28
Speaker
yeah Every problem on Earth is because Reed Richards hasn't solved it. in his That's how it's framed, yeah. And that's like that's you know the arrogance of brilliance, but it's also like kind of quantifiably true. like It's like how you know any billionaire could end world hunger easily, and none of them do.
00:56:50
Speaker
Imagine if one of them felt bad about it. Yeah, right. ah There's one point where Reed says, I think this is this dialogue is worth just reading. I almost lost all of you this year. I made some choices that directly led to the deaths of some of our friends and almost tore this world to pieces.
00:57:08
Speaker
And for the life of me, I don't know where it went wrong. Yes, this has to be handled now. Like, you know, it's already the kind of... recontextualizing and revitalization Reed as a character here. Yeah.
00:57:25
Speaker
Now that also leads to what I think is my major problem with this series. Which is that...
00:57:35
Speaker
You know I like Jonathan Hickman. huh And I'm not going to sit here and say this is not a good Reed. I think a good r e a d READ read. I don't think i'm at of talking out of school say that we both enjoyed this a lot.
00:57:46
Speaker
Yeah, I liked it. I... Well, we'll get into more nuanced discussion of that, I think, after we're done. But yeah, yeah I liked it. This did not need to be five issues. No, it it doesn't need to exist.
00:57:59
Speaker
but like i'll I'll just get into it now. like This is a story that doesn't have to exist. like The Dark Reign tie-in is cursory at best. Yeah. right like the The whole thing in this first issue is just like these these hammer soldiers show up, and it seems like they're going to...
00:58:17
Speaker
like try to kill the Fantastic Four and let their leaders... like Who's in the mood to shoot up some superheroes? And then it turns out they're there just to deliver a note that Norman Osborn is coming.
00:58:31
Speaker
like I don't know why they need to cut the power for that and stuff, but like they show up and cut the power Which, as Reed is going into the bridge, which leads to a whole thing where the Fantastic Four gets stuck in in compressed time space-time.
00:58:50
Speaker
ah So they go to the rest of the Fantastic Four. ah Because they need something to do, they go back to dinosaur times at the start here.
00:59:03
Speaker
Which is fun. But is another like problem that Reed is...
00:59:09
Speaker
unknowingly creating, which I think runs a little counter to what Hickman is trying to get at here, but you know the other characters need something to do. You i can get as much as, look, Matt, you know that you popped and I popped for Milady Tis the Clobbering Hour.
00:59:30
Speaker
Oh, it's great, yeah. It's fantastic. I put it on the Ajax Blue Sky account. Yes. It's great. And it's a hoot. The meat of this story is just the pages with Reed Richards. And if you read like if those were a one-shot, this would accomplish exactly the same thing.
00:59:50
Speaker
Well, it it's a prologue, like I said. i To me, it reads as a prologue to the Fantastic Four run. But I've read the first issue of the Fantastic Four run and got it just fine. you know like This is not needed to get what's coming.
01:00:07
Speaker
um But like you know there's some cool stuff in here, and we'll talk about it. um But yeah, like the Reed stuff is the actual important story stuff. So let's get into that. Issue two has a Pasquale Ferry cover, which is very different from that first Simone Bianchi cover.
01:00:24
Speaker
ah It's... the FF fighting like sea creatures in the background as Reed looks at a screen, which is pretty indicative of what this is.
01:00:38
Speaker
yeah We should say, by the way, the the purpose of the bridge is for Reed to look at the entire Marvel multiverse and figure out where he fucked up. yeah like If there's any universes similar to his...
01:00:53
Speaker
where the whole superhero Civil War thing ended peacefully without Captain America getting shot and Reed messing up. and And there are other scenarios, too. But the first scenario he asks about is the Civil War.
01:01:06
Speaker
Yeah. yeah um Anyway, it's the the issue starts with Franklin staring down the Hammer agents, and they're like, oh, we're just here to deliver a note, and it ah it just says Norman Osborn is coming tomorrow.
01:01:18
Speaker
um Then we get some stuff where... read and or ah not read, uh, Johnny and Sue and Ben are still fighting like these prehistoric creatures and, uh, space time decompresses or compresses again. And then they end up in like,
01:01:38
Speaker
a sort of medieval scenario where Sue is a queen. Uh-huh. And Tony Stark is a knight outside saying that they should have a Republic instead of a Mararchy.
01:01:51
Speaker
And Sue doesn't understand why that's going on. And that's where we get Milady Tis the Clobbering Hour, which has been grim with the monocle. ah he's He's the Chamberlain.
01:02:02
Speaker
ah And he's wearing a monocle and he says that. it's ah you know It's fun. but All that stuff is fun. thing that I like is that they pick up a like they pick up a character from each of these compressed ah worlds, ah but these are all worlds where there's no Reed.
01:02:23
Speaker
Or at least Reed's not part of the team. I think Reed does show up in the pirate world, ah but he's not like part of the FF. which is Which is kind of important later, but not really.
01:02:37
Speaker
um And then, yeah, we get ah one page of the pirate world at the end of this issue. um But the Reed stuff that's going on is he's asking about, you know, what are some alternate ways that Civil War went?
01:02:53
Speaker
um And so he finds out about one where... Well, first he asks... how many worlds had ah superhero registration act?
01:03:04
Speaker
And it's like 12 million. And he says, how many of those led to ah civil war? And it's like 3 million. And then he says, how many of those had a peaceful resolution?
01:03:16
Speaker
And the thing says 418.
01:03:19
Speaker
So he starts digging into those. There's one where there's no Tony Stark. And the absence of Tony Stark meant that it ended peacefully.
01:03:33
Speaker
Like, that's just straight up how it went. Like, what what he eventually learns is, in every universe where he acted alone, there was a peaceful resolution. Although the peaceful resolutions aren't all good.
01:03:50
Speaker
There's also one where... um Captain America and Iron Woman fall in love, but the art, is just it just looks like Captain America and Iron Man kissing.
01:04:03
Speaker
And for a second I was like, okay, Marvel in 2009, but no. I do wonder. I do wonder. Yeah. You know? If it got changed in the lettering pass. Yeah, yeah I wonder if if that one got changed in the lettering pass.
01:04:20
Speaker
Could be. Could be. Like, just go in and draw some eyelashes on Iron Man, and we'll say it we'll say it's Natasha. And a veil. Yeah. ah But, yeah, what but essentially, in every case, you know, the some of the details are a little bit different.
01:04:42
Speaker
um but the quote-unquote peaceful resolutions to Civil War are all Reed acting alone. Now, in some of them, everybody gets depowered, or there was no Captain America to lead the opposition because he was still frozen, and so and so forth. Or everybody gets powers.
01:05:01
Speaker
and when everybody it's like Just everybody in the world gets powers. Yeah. um But the the the common thread, the commonality between all of them is that ah Tony was a non-factor and Hank Pym was a non-factor, and Reed acted alone in in the
01:05:21
Speaker
Superhero Registration Act, which at first makes Reed kind of go like, oh, so i I was just right, and it's the other people who are wrong. But then he has to do a little more digging. ah Issue 3 of Dark Reign Fantastic Four has another Pasquale Ferry cover with the Illuminati on it.
01:05:42
Speaker
ah They're all looking up at Earth, which is very much going to tie into the Jonathan Hickman comics to come.
01:05:52
Speaker
Boy, are the Illuminati very important to Hickmania. Yes. All right. This one starts with everybody in the pirate world.
01:06:05
Speaker
Somehow Chamberlain Ben Grimm from the the medieval world is still here. Yeah, he he gets picked up and swept into the next one. So ah there's a pirate Ben Grimm, and there's a Chamberlain Grimm.
01:06:20
Speaker
And you said Reed was part of the pirate world. He is because there is an Illuminati there. Yeah. And they have this version of Sue working for them as like a spy on the pirate ship.
01:06:35
Speaker
um Which is a cool idea, but kind of like doesn't amount to anything. Yeah. In the end. ah It's all just kind of like a big, broad adventure. um that Also, then, they go to a Western world ah where the Pirate Johnny gets brought along to that one.
01:06:53
Speaker
Right. So now it's Chamberlain Grimm, Pirate Johnny, and then we find out that this this world is ah about a Black Sue Storm. Black Susan.
01:07:05
Speaker
yeah who is a gunslinger, who gets in a gunfight with the Beyonder.
01:07:11
Speaker
I was really surprised to see this Beyonder bit here. Buddy, let me tell you something. Not only do we get the Beyonder in this issue, I think it's in the next issue. No, it's in this one, where ah we get...
01:07:30
Speaker
oh One of the the case studies of the alternate worlds that Reed is looking at is that all the heroes of villains are transported to a reimagined battle world.
01:07:42
Speaker
who
01:07:45
Speaker
Is it this early? i wondered the same thing. does he Is he planting the seeds in 2009 for Secret Wars I wondered the same thing.
01:07:58
Speaker
Yeah. like at at At least he's got the idea, some kind of idea of like revisiting Secret Wars as a concept, I feel like because the art just looks like Secret Wars, except for like Spider-Man and Venom are there.
01:08:13
Speaker
Yeah. But the word reimagined, reimagined Battleworld, is doing a lot of of making me wonder.
01:08:28
Speaker
Well, so this hit the the questions he's asking the bridge in this one all have to do with the effects of the Illuminati, right?
01:08:39
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Like, whether the Illuminati do good or not. So in one of them, the Beyonder makes a world where he's worshipped and adored.
01:08:54
Speaker
Then there's the reimagined battle world. Then there's one where the Beyonder destroys the world, which also plays into Secret Wars 2015.
01:09:07
Speaker
ah Then there's one where everybody surrenders to the Skrulls, like just total surrender to the Skrulls. And he his conclusion is, the meaning was clear. The Illuminati as a catalyst for peaceful change yields an almost zero probability for long-term success.
01:09:26
Speaker
Which, yeah, I could have told you that, man.
01:09:31
Speaker
A cabal of like people who call themselves the smartest people making all the decisions. Yeah, man. Oh, and then ah also in the compressed space-time, ah they go to like a World War II thing where they have a commander who's very much Stan Lee.
01:09:52
Speaker
Well, it's Willy Lumpkin. It's Willy Lumpkin, yeah. It's Willy Lumpkin who is... Drawn to look like Stan Lee. Yeah. And then at the end of that issue, ah Norman Osborn shows up with not the entire Dark Avengers, but just the Matt Gargan venom.
01:10:10
Speaker
Well, the Spider-Man? spot Yes. Quote-unquote Spider-Man.
01:10:17
Speaker
ah So the issue four, which has another Pasquale Ferry cover with Green Goblin hovering over Franklin and Valeria... Which is pretty cool. ah Norman Osborn buzzes at the door.
01:10:32
Speaker
He says, ah Norman Osborn here to see Reed Richards. I'm expected. And so they have to let him in. ah But ah Valeria lawyers Norman Osborn.
01:10:46
Speaker
That part's really good. yeah like The two characters that I think Hickman excels at are Reed and Valeria. ah she's she She points out that in the document they were given, they were told it would just be one representative of Hammer that would be allowed in.
01:11:05
Speaker
And so Norman goes in and he tells Mac Gargan to stay behind. And clearly they they're just stalling him ah here.
01:11:19
Speaker
Meanwhile, Reed... is is still trying to determine determine what he could do to fix things.
01:11:32
Speaker
But he gets fed up. The machine's not showing him what he wants to see. ah And he's like, there's got to be some kind of way. There's got to be...
01:11:43
Speaker
like but were were was me discovering that the successes were came from me acting alone? Is that arrogance, or is that does that mean I'm responsible for making good things happen?
01:11:58
Speaker
ah
01:12:01
Speaker
And he finally is like, okay, I have to do what I can to fix things. And so he switches off the machine, and that pulls Reed and Sue and Johnny out of collapsed space-time,
01:12:14
Speaker
Which went to like a future sci-fi thing with a big Reed-looking Supreme Intelligence. A big Reed-looking Supreme Intelligence who goes, we're all screwed!
01:12:27
Speaker
Yeah, and and also like Green Goblin-Venom hybrid things that are attacking everybody. That art is great during those parts.
01:12:37
Speaker
it's It's wild. It's so bananas, yeah. ah But it's fun. um So they they get out of there just as Norman Osborn is shooting a gun at two children.
01:12:53
Speaker
Yeah, man. He sucks.
01:12:56
Speaker
I mean, he, Matt, he fights a guy who's like in high school. That's true. he fights his kid's friend. Like Franklin and Valeria are like, what?
01:13:09
Speaker
Six and four here, probably. Pretty young, yeah. Yeah. And Norman is just shooting a gun right at them.
01:13:19
Speaker
And ah that leads Sue to say, get away from my children on the last page. Get away from my children, you nasty freak. i would have I would have said, stop shooting a gun at my children.
01:13:32
Speaker
i would I mean, if if if I'm Sue, I would have just like put a force field around his head. Yeah, yeah. Cut off his oxygen. Yeah. Yeah. ah The cover to issue five has ah Venom and Iron Patriot attacking the Fantastic Four.
01:13:52
Speaker
Notably, Norman is never the Green Goblin nor the Iron Patriot in the actual interiors of this comic. Correct.
01:14:02
Speaker
ah So Sue tells Norman, get away from my kids. He says, make me. And then she does the force field on him. She doesn't put a force field around his head, but she like knocks him against the wall. She slams up against the wall, which is very funny.
01:14:17
Speaker
And he goes, woof!
01:14:20
Speaker
Yeah. And he's like he like gets out his little little thing, and he like hits a button. he's got a learn life He's got a little life alert necklace. Yeah. So then Dark Avenger Spider-Man, who is Venom?
01:14:34
Speaker
Yeah. And a bunch of normal dudes show up. The Fantastic Four beat Venom more than Spider-Man beats Venom. True.
01:14:47
Speaker
Like, I wanted i wanted sue or Reed or somebody be like, what are we doing here, guys? but Like, did you think this was good? One of our guys is made of fire.
01:14:58
Speaker
Well, that that kind of happens. ah Like, Sue puts up a force field that they can't get through. ah But with Norman also inside.
01:15:12
Speaker
And they say, okay, send all your dudes away.
01:15:19
Speaker
I want to make sure you never come back to my home. and Because because the the whole thing from the start was that the Fantastic Four was going to get removed from the initiative program.
01:15:33
Speaker
Like, Hammer had determined that they're not part of the initiative anymore. Mm-hmm. And so they were going to like provoke their superhero license or whatever. um But Reed is like, never come back to my house.
01:15:47
Speaker
Don't, don't tell us what to do. We're independent from you. And Norman pulls his gun out again and he's about to shoot Reed.
01:15:58
Speaker
But then Franklin pulls out his cap gun and shoots it at Norman and it fires like a real gun.
01:16:09
Speaker
I think indicating the return of Franklin's powers, which I think that at this point they were dormant. Oh man, I wonder if that's going to come up in six years. Well, who can say?
01:16:20
Speaker
Who can say? um But, ah but Norman's like, I can't believe your son shot me.
01:16:31
Speaker
I'll, I'll come in the middle of the night and I will, I'll take over the Baxter building. And Reed just says, no, you're going to leave. And he does.
01:16:45
Speaker
nor Norman peaces out. It's so funny that he's like, I can't believe your son shot me. Yeah. I was just you to get him. Yeah, it's like, well, you know, yeah, my kid ain't Spider-Man, bud.
01:17:01
Speaker
Who, again, was 15 when you two started fighting. Yeah. ah So Johnny says, okay, kids, let's show you your new rooms. And Sue goes, hey, ah what what what happened with you?
01:17:18
Speaker
we were We were stuck in compressed space time. What happened with you? And Reed goes, oh, i got I learned that I got to figure out how to solve these problems. Shit got real crazy here for a minute.
01:17:30
Speaker
Yeah. So Reed goes back to the bridge. He activates it. And... He sees in silhouette ah the the Council of Reeds that we'll willll we'll see at the start of Hickman's Fantastic Four run.
01:17:51
Speaker
And Sue goes, okay, well, if if you only saw some stuff that gave you some ideas from the bridge, but nothing else, I want you to destroy it. I want you to deconstruct it.
01:18:02
Speaker
Because it sent us through that whole... gauntlet that we had to go through, and I don't want that to happen again. I shot the Beyonder in the face. because Yeah. And Reed goes, okay, I will.
01:18:14
Speaker
I promise I will. So he deconstructs it, and then puts it back together. Yeah, he's like like, don't worry, Sue. I'll take it apart piece by piece. And and like the next battle is him going, yeah, and then I put it back together.
01:18:27
Speaker
Which is Reed being a dick. Yeah, like I know this is like an attempt to rehab Reed, but also... also Telling your wife you'll do something, at the but only on a technicality, that's pretty shitty.
01:18:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But then it ends with him going in his like big room where he writes on the walls, and we get idea number 101, solve everything.
01:18:57
Speaker
Which is the the driving force of the whole Fantastic Four run to come. Yeah. oh Like I said... By no means was this a a bad or not enjoyable comic at all, I would say.
01:19:17
Speaker
However, I felt like it could have been a one-shot.
01:19:23
Speaker
And i'm I'm curious to see like if I will feel that way. Because I don't recall feeling that way when this came out, which is when I would have been reading it and probably reviewing every issue on my blog you know in 2009.
01:19:36
Speaker
yeah like you know And I was already a Hickman guy by then because of like Nightly News. and yeah i Nightly News was definitely the first Hickman thing I read.
01:19:47
Speaker
Yeah, Nightly News and Manhattan Projects. oh yeah So I was already in the tank for it. Reading it all together now, 16 years later, i'm like, yeah, from what I recall, that could have been one shot.
01:20:01
Speaker
And I wonder if I'll feel that way as we progress, or if... Black Susan having a six-gun showdown with the Beyonder in his Western wear is ah going to to really come back in a way I don't expect.
01:20:18
Speaker
Well, part of it, I think, is that there were multiple books that had Dark Reign miniseries. So part of it, I feel like, had to be some kind of editorial edict.
01:20:34
Speaker
Because there was like a Dark Reign Hawkeye mini, there was a Dark Reign Young Avengers mini, there was Dark Reign... There was Ares that Kieran Gillen wrote, which is still one of my favorite Kieran Gillen books.
01:20:45
Speaker
There was Dark Reign Elektra, and those were all five-issue minis. Every Because needed some paperbacks. And so, part of me feels like that...
01:21:01
Speaker
the whole thing was all these dark rain minis were meant to be, we're were like by editorial edict, five issues. Yeah. ah And so to me, that kind of explains why this ended up being five issues. But like, like we said, the the dark rain part of this, the Norman Osborn stuff in here
01:21:31
Speaker
is almost incidental. like i mean, I would say it to the larger plot, it is incidental. it's It's the C-plot, for sure.
01:21:42
Speaker
Yeah. like It all kind of ties together in the last issue, but like you know it's the C-plot. The B-plot is Johnny and Sue and Ben stuck in compressed space-time, and the A-plot is Reed...
01:22:03
Speaker
discovering his new but life philosophy. There's three really good one-shots in this five-issue miniseries. Yeah, yeah. like The thing is... and like Franklin and Valeria versus ah Norman Osborn is a fun one-shot.
01:22:25
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. and And I know I'm jumping ahead, but... like I have read the the first few issues of the Hickman Fantastic Four run.
01:22:38
Speaker
Like, this issue is kind of unnecessary because all of this stuff about Reed gets knocked out in a few pages in Fantastic Four number 570. Like,
01:22:53
Speaker
it it it's interesting. Like, to me, the most interesting stuff in here is the the kind of seeds being planted for Secret Wars.
01:23:05
Speaker
Like, it makes me wonder how much of that is going to, like, continue to be planted over the next
01:23:14
Speaker
six years of Hickman comics. You know? ah But...
01:23:25
Speaker
As far as, like...
01:23:29
Speaker
stretching out the like, you know, like for some readers, I can see the need to be like, Oh, the read who did bad stuff in fantastic or in civil war is aware that that stuff he did was bad and he's working to change it.
01:23:46
Speaker
isn Like, I feel like that's what this story is really trying to accomplish. And to me, that's why it's called the bridge. Uh, ultimately, ah and And it's interesting, but like you know like so many prologues and negative ones and zero issues, it's not really necessary.
01:24:06
Speaker
Yeah. yeah But I do think it was it's worth us going through it to be like, is that a motherfucking thing about Secret Wars six years in advance? Did he have that planned?
01:24:17
Speaker
That is definitely by far the most interesting thing about it for me. because i Look, I've sat at a convention and watched Jonathan Hickman get out a moleskin and lay out multiple issues of a comic.
01:24:28
Speaker
Like, just literally sketch out the panels. Yeah. oh Because it was a small show where there were there was pro wrestling Myrtle Beach ah first with in the ring all who then went to a bouncy house.
01:24:47
Speaker
It was great. Great con. But like i like I know how meticulous he can be from both reading the books and like seeing a little bit of the creative process.
01:24:59
Speaker
oh So it wouldn't shock me, but it did surprise me. Because, you know, I'm from the Larry Hama school. ah Right.
01:25:11
Speaker
i'm the the real Real pantsing. Yeah, two two pages at most. there's There's planning and there's pantsing. ah
01:25:21
Speaker
I think it's interesting, like, if you look at the cover of 570, at the top, it says in quotation marks, what is the true cost of a man's mistakes?
01:25:33
Speaker
And that is the basically the through line of these five issues. Like, that's just a line of text that gets at the heart of what this miniseries is.
01:25:49
Speaker
Yeah. You know what I mean?
01:25:53
Speaker
ah So, how like on a scale of American-made to real American,
01:26:01
Speaker
what do we give it?
01:26:04
Speaker
ah It's American-made. It's American-made. It is American-made. Yeah. It's government-inspected. It's U.S. grade. yeah i you know I don't regret having read this. I think it is a good starting point.
01:26:24
Speaker
ah But I'm ready to get into the meat of the ah real Fantastic Four run now.
01:26:33
Speaker
Me too. I'm very excited. Because that I have a much less clear memory of. I read at least at least Volume 1.
01:26:45
Speaker
which is five issues. i probably read a year's worth of it. So that's through volume three. ah So so here's here's where we're going going forward.
01:26:59
Speaker
I'm using an article on comicbookherald.com called Jonathan Hickman Marvel Universe Reading Order 2008-2016.
01:27:11
Speaker
two thousand eight to two thousand and sixteen And it starts i mean it starts with Secret Warriors. But starting with the Fantastic Four part, it's Dark Reign Fantastic Four, then Fantastic Four numbers 570 to 588.
01:27:29
Speaker
five hundred and eighty eight Then it's the first two volumes of FF.
01:27:37
Speaker
Then it's Fantastic Four numbers 600 through 604.
01:27:43
Speaker
Then it's alternating Fantastic Four and FF comics for a while after that. So we're going to have to be pretty meticulous about like what we read.
01:27:57
Speaker
Matt, ah a meticulous book demands a meticulous reading order.
Future Plans for Hickmania and Community Engagement
01:28:02
Speaker
That's true. Then after we get to like the end of FF, then it jumps to Ultimates.
01:28:10
Speaker
We're going to skip all of that. Are we? Yes. We're going to skip Ultimate Comics Ultimates and some of those Ultimate books because I don't think we need them. Matt, we got to know about the Maker, buddy. Fuck. God fucking damn it. You know we got to know about the – look!
01:28:30
Speaker
You know we got to know about the Maker. Okay, does that mean we have to read Ultimate Comics Thor? Buddy, that means we got to read all of it.
01:28:40
Speaker
that That comes into play. You know that comes into play in Secret Wars. Okay, fine. Okay, fine. Okay, alright, fine. we Buddy, we did ten years of Mark Grunewald. We can do this.
01:28:56
Speaker
Alright, so... We read Operation Galactic Storm, Matt. There's Ultimate Comics Thor, Ultimate Comics Fallout, Ultimate Comics Ultimates, and Ultimate Hawkeye.
01:29:10
Speaker
I don't want to read Ultimate Hawkeye. See what I'm saying? like I don't think we need to Ultimate Hawkeye. we gotta do it, bud. We gotta do it. I think we could skip Ultimate Comics Thor and Ultimate Hawkeye and just do Fallout and Ultimates.
01:29:24
Speaker
We gotta... No. We gotta do it. Fine. Okay. And then after that, it's Avengers and New Avengers. Exciting. Can't wait to get to this.
01:29:35
Speaker
Yeah.
01:29:38
Speaker
Well, folks... That does it for our first our first bout of Hickmania. Yes. It was American-made.
01:29:50
Speaker
can't wait until... Okay, Matt, you might need to cut this out. Because this is Chris Sims talking to Matt Wilson. Okay.
01:30:02
Speaker
I think you should call it Hickmania. And then Hickmania 2. Hickmania... i' i was I'm already there. Okay. mark ge You're already there with calling the 16th installment Hickmania 2000? And then X7. And then X7?
01:30:23
Speaker
Yes, we could do that. we could do that i'm glad yeah I'm glad you're there with me, buddy. Are we going to have more than 41 parts?
01:30:33
Speaker
Not in the next year. Definitely not in the next year, yeah. Uh... but like But it's going to get extra weird, but it's like 31 where it's like play button.
01:30:45
Speaker
Yes. Yes, it will. 32 star. 33. Fuck, I don't even remember what 33 is. that That was the pirate ship, wasn't it?
01:30:58
Speaker
No, that was 36 and 37. That'll be confusing. Yeah. That will be confusing. Oh, WrestleMania 33 was a son. oh w russell many thirty three was a son
01:31:12
Speaker
WrestleMania 34 was a...
01:31:19
Speaker
Fleur-de-lis. Oh, right, right, right. That was the one that's a silver dome, according to the dead racist Hulk Hogan. And then 35 was nothing. It was like a sun again.
01:31:32
Speaker
um it's going to be great. Matt, it's going to be great. I might just have to number those. No, no, I refuse. like i like Like, I have any say in it, or would notice, but I refuse.
01:31:47
Speaker
Yeah. Alright, everybody. If you would like to email us suggestions for how to number those Hick Manias that are not... ah
01:31:59
Speaker
for the WrestleManias that didn't have numbers, ah you can do that at our email address, which is warrocketpodcasts at gmail.com. We're on Tumblr, warrocketpodcast.tumblr.com. You can follow us on Blue Sky. warrocketajax.com is our Blue Sky handle.
01:32:19
Speaker
We are ah on Discord. You have to be invited to join our Discord, but if you nice ask us nicely for an invitation, then you can head over there.
01:32:32
Speaker
ah um Well, ask us for an invitation, and we'll send you one, and then you can join that Discord, which is a real cool place full of WarRocketAjax fans.
01:32:43
Speaker
WarRocketWiki.com is the fan-run repository of all the information you could want or need about this website this podcast, WarRocketAjax. Our website is WarRocketAjax.com, and has every episode of the show we've ever done.
01:32:57
Speaker
you want to find me and my stuff, go to mattdwilson.net. It's where you can find links to my books, my comics, my other podcasts, and my social medias. Chris, where can people find you?
01:33:08
Speaker
Everybody can find me at the-isb.com. That is my website, and it has links to all the stuff that I do on the internet, stuff that you can read, stuff that you can buy, stuff that you can read for free.
01:33:20
Speaker
lot of good stuff is there.
01:33:25
Speaker
Thanks for listening, everybody. We'll be back ah next week with another episode. We'll have an episode next week. And in the week after that, I will be in Portland in advance of Rose City Comic Con. So come see me there.
01:33:39
Speaker
yeah Exciting. Yeah.
01:33:44
Speaker
Well, Matt, I can't wait to talk to you next week. And i'll I'll miss you after, buddy. it But there will be plenty to talk about when I get back from...
01:33:56
Speaker
Seattle and Portland. I'm going to both places. Fun. that's ah That's a good time. yeah Until then, folks, do not forget that Black Lives Matter. Trans rights are human rights. As are abortion rights.
01:34:08
Speaker
Drag is not a crime. And cops aren't your friends. Free Palestine, and we love you. We love you. Yeah!