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S2 Ep20 Networking Mastery: Turning Connections into Success with Cathy Paper
50 Plays8 months ago
This episode features a conversation about the importance of networking in business. The hosts recall how they initially met and share a humorous anecdote about a panel discussion. They then introduce networking expert Cathy, highlighting her skills in connecting people effectively. The discussion dives into the art of networking and the value of building relationships in the business world. Tune in for insights and tips on navigating networking in both scripted and unscripted settings.
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Dial It In Podcast is where we gathered our favorite people together to share their advice on how to drive revenue, through storytelling and without the boring sales jargon. Our primary focus is marketing and sales for manufacturing and B2B service businesses, but we’ll cover topics across the entire spectrum of business. This isn’t a deep, naval-gazing show… we like to have lively chats that are fun, and full of useful insights. Brought to you by BizzyWeb.
Links:
Website: dialitinpodcast.com
BizzyWeb site: bizzyweb.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Dial It In, a podcast where we talk with interesting people about the process improvements and tricks they use to grow their businesses. I'm Dave Meyer, president of BusyWeb, and every week, Trigg Violson and I are bringing you interviews on how the best in their fields are dialing it in for their organizations.
How Dave and Trigg Met
00:00:24
Speaker
Dave, do you remember how we met?
00:00:27
Speaker
I do. We were on stage together and it was a very interesting conversation where we were brought on for a panel and then we didn't get a chance to actually speak because the person that led the panel didn't let us break in.
00:00:41
Speaker
Yeah. And so we sat next to each other for an hour while the head of the panel answered every single question that the audience of several hundred posted hilarious. And we just sat there and chitty chatted. It was one of the most interesting experiences I've ever had, but I got to meet Dave out of it.
00:01:00
Speaker
Yes. It was good networking.
Power of Networking in Business
00:01:03
Speaker
I find that so much more of the really great context that I have and the business that we have at BusyWeb comes from networking. So I wanted to spend a little time today and bring in an expert on networking, our old friend Kathy. Hey, Kathy, how are you? Welcome back to the show. Thank you.
00:01:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's so delightful to have you here. Kathy is, of course, one of the preeminent networkers that I've ever met and makes everyone she meets feel at home and teases out what they can do for each other inside of like 15 seconds. It's always delightful to hang out with you, Kathy. So I'm excited to chat with you today.
00:01:45
Speaker
Likewise, that's nice. But that would be my strength finders woo, winning others over. What did you say, 15 seconds? I'm a little worried that I was once given coaching of like, don't come on so strong and assume you're familiar with everybody right away. I was like, well, I like people. That's right. Absolutely. Definitely interrupting your intro before we get to your bio. That didn't happen at all.
00:02:13
Speaker
All right. It was an interesting start. We can pick up the pieces. It was like the Big Ten Championship. Much like real-world networking where everything is unscripted and you've got to learn to dance. I am consistently shocked when I go to networking events that there are people not good at it. It's one of the things that I've realized about myself is I am really good at it.
00:02:38
Speaker
So that's not a humble brag, although it kind of sounds like it. But Kathy, why should people have networking as one of the clubs in their bag to grow their business?
Essential Networking Strategies
00:02:50
Speaker
Well, I think as you started with the introduction, Trigby, is you two met each other through a panel where you sat with each other, but obviously the panelists didn't realize part of the way this all works is you meet people through other people. That's what building a network is.
00:03:10
Speaker
I think it's so important to have the what did you call it the club in your bag? That's a golf which is a great way to network is it you do business with people you know like and trust.
00:03:26
Speaker
And if you don't know how to network or build good relationships to meet new people, you struggle to have a reputation or to find the right people in a room at a conference or to get sales leads or to find a job or a babysitter or restaurant. I mean, there's a million applications of networking.
00:03:47
Speaker
So I think it's not just a club. I think it's the driver. I just recently learned how to play golf. So if that's a good analogy, great. Quality golf continuity there. Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:59
Speaker
I think it is the driver. It's the big Bertha. Networking is really the lifeblood of starting a business, sustaining a business, getting things done. I do think it's a skill to learn how to do. Just because you can say you're a great networker, I think I'm a pretty good networker. At the start, I didn't think I was that good and now I'm like, oh no, I know how to meet people when I want to meet people.
00:04:27
Speaker
Well, I wouldn't say that I'm a great networker. I would say that my talent lends itself into not having a lot of shame. And so being able to walk into a room and walk up to somebody and talk to them is isn't really a problem for me, but that's a big problem for a lot of people.
00:04:42
Speaker
I did a survey of 500 people and asked them how they feel about networking and 72% of people just can't stand the word networking. I think it makes them uncomfortable.
00:05:01
Speaker
think it's all about meeting people in a room where you know no one, when to me networking begins with how do you talk to the people that you know and expand from there.
Overcoming Networking Challenges
00:05:14
Speaker
And that could be people online or people in person. So when people come to you, because you consult and you have a number of different irons and a lot of different fires to even confuse the analogy meter even a little bit more,
00:05:30
Speaker
One of your businesses is coaching people on how to network. So what are some of the things that people when they come to you, they say, I don't want to do that for this reason. Well, so a lot of people come to me or they're sent to me maybe by their sales leader because they're not meeting their numbers or they're overwhelmed by how do I find the right people in the right amount of time? How do I get engaged with a network?
00:05:59
Speaker
You've probably seen people where they go to a lot of events. You see them there, but they don't really do a great introduction, so they're not really that memorable. A gentleman I just met with this morning, he flat-out said, I'm terrible with follow-up.
00:06:16
Speaker
Yeah. He doesn't do that. A lot of people that come to me, they come because they're worn out or they stalled out a little bit and they want to get to that next level. Maybe they need to do like a networking audit of who's in your network, where are you spending your time?
00:06:35
Speaker
With most people in an hour or two, I can get them thinking about both where they're networking and how they're networking, that they can be more efficient or meet the quality people that'll help them get the results they want. I did that with you about two months ago, and it was great. I felt like at the end, I felt relieved.
00:07:00
Speaker
And then I felt like, oh, God, I overshared. And I told her everything. But it was really wonderful. And one of the conclusions that I came to is that one of the networking groups that I belong to hasn't really paid out for me for quite some time, which is a challenge because I don't really want to leave. And on the other hand, it's kind of a social club for me. It's not a business networking event anymore.
00:07:24
Speaker
Well, and that's interesting. One, you didn't overshare because part of coaching is, one, it's confidential, and two, it's about growth, and we all get uncomfortable growing our skill sets. But the key is to know, are you spending your time in the right place? Because the example you give of the group that's now a social club or less about business development, you have to know why you're in a room.
00:07:52
Speaker
because I learned this years ago from Harvey McKay, you know, swim with the sharks, right? We all have the same amount of time, 24 seven, you, me, Dave, everybody listening, same amount of time. Are you in the right rooms or networks that are going to help you accomplish what you want? And the challenge is how do you gracefully exit a group and say, you know what, I can take my game up a level.
Strategic Networking Involvement
00:08:22
Speaker
And that may be what you realize is, okay, this is a good social club for me. But in terms of business development for Busy Web, this is not the right, especially if it's weekly, that's a big commitment. That's 90 minutes every week. That's a lot of time. And I know every year I get ruthless about, is this the right place to be?
00:08:45
Speaker
But what need is this serving? Because most people can do maybe three to five associations and otherwise then they're spread so thin that they're not really a member, they're not really engaged. Or if you're a business development person, you're probably doing more, but you still want to be purposeful.
00:09:04
Speaker
you know get some of my clients they come to me and i know they're tired they can't keep up with all their link ends with all their contacts and i'll just back up and say wait wait wait who are we trying to meet you want engineer lawyers and financial service people but you're in let's just.
00:09:23
Speaker
For the sake of it there in a construction organization like why are you in that why are you on the board of that. Why are you giving so much time to it because people forget that it's like this you get to be strategic so that intention is really. What did you say you felt relief.
00:09:42
Speaker
It was very much like finally realizing that I had to break up with a girlfriend. It's just always kind of been there. And then suddenly I met somebody who's like, hey, why are you with her? And I'm like, I don't know. And I think that's
Kathy's Five-Part Networking Framework
00:10:02
Speaker
just tricky. That's also just, that's the opening of where you're spending your time. But then it's what are you doing to mine the relationship?
00:10:10
Speaker
If I had to take networking through the stage, first, what's your goal in networking? I have a little five-part framework if we want to give people a PDF of all this we can. I'd love that. We'll put in the show notes. Yeah. Because I think what happens is, first, we don't know what our goal is with our network because that feels weird. When I say to people, write down your top 100 relationships,
00:10:37
Speaker
Look through your CRM, look through your emails, look through your phone logs. We all know who our 100 is, but you don't really want to do that exercise because you think, well, 100 can't be enough to get done what I want to get done. Well, it's a start.
00:10:53
Speaker
Right, and 100 people compounds very quickly, especially when you think about, well, if they have three people that they could connect you with, that 100 all of a sudden turns into 300 opportunities, but you have to be very thoughtful and think about the ends that you want to achieve when you connect with these people.
00:11:12
Speaker
So I think that as you're building relationships with people, I think you hit it, Kathy, where you have to have the end in mind at the very beginning. Like what do you want out of these? You're networking with six groups and three of them actually don't have any real payback or the opportunity to connect, right? So maybe it's worth dialing back some things that aren't beneficial in favor of maybe just focusing and getting more value out of the three that are left, right?
00:11:42
Speaker
Or let's just say we did this talking about Busy Web. How about your other employees? What organizations are they a part of? Because some of the companies I'll work with on their networking, I will say this is a divide and conquer.
00:12:00
Speaker
of who's in which association. Are you all representing the company's brand and building that genuine connection? Because I think why the 72% of people don't like the word networking is we've all had somebody that we've connected with that you walk away going, I don't feel very good.
00:12:20
Speaker
either I don't want to do business with them, or something didn't feel quite right, or I don't know what they do, and that was a waste of my time. That kind of feeling makes us all think, okay, I don't like networking. If you start thinking, can I find 100 quality relationships, and then nurture those, and ask for business from those, and give business to those, that's a whole different experience.
00:12:50
Speaker
Well, and that's really what LinkedIn and those kinds of networking groups should be about. But people either get lazy or misguided or they just start posting weird things or not approaching it as an opportunity to share what's interesting about them and to ideate.
Effective Use of LinkedIn
00:13:09
Speaker
or come up with great possibilities for business connections, right? So how do you cultivate that to make sure that everything that you do has some sort of a through line to the business that you're trying to run or grow? So I said the first step is the goal setting. The second step is really knowing yourself well.
00:13:33
Speaker
knowing what are you about? Why are you a thought leader or a great salesperson? Or what are you wanting to talk about when you're on LinkedIn? Because I think you said LinkedIn, it gets a little weird. Sometimes I'm wondering, are we talking about business or personal things on LinkedIn? Now LinkedIn has shifted and we know people are on there every single day. Those numbers are crazy.
00:14:02
Speaker
And people are doing a lot but like what are you what are you promoting about you because if you're not telling people the things you want to be known for your what you're capable of the note in a way that resonates they're not gonna be able to refer you for.
00:14:19
Speaker
Let's take accounting services again. And again, I think that's the piece of the networking. Once you've got your goal, then you have to know yourself really well so that you know, okay, I got to get out of my comfort zone a little bit and write an article once a month. That's usually one of the tips that I give to people, small business owners or people inside an organization.
00:14:42
Speaker
is I'll say, stop just posting. They hit the like button. They think, oh, I've done my social media. They tag it and kind of run away. I'm like, no, you need to have a point of view. Let people know what you're about and then also reciprocate and be somebody that reads the article and comments on what somebody said.
00:15:04
Speaker
When people get overwhelmed with, I don't have time for that, I don't do it, I say, I will say, put down a half an hour of social media time on your calendar, start with it twice a week and see what happens. Because again, if we pick our
00:15:19
Speaker
Top one hundred i call it your all-star one hundred if you pick that group and you start following them on linkedin and really knowing what's going on with their business or being a supporter of it you know things are gonna change and most people again we start with twenty five so it doesn't get so overwhelming start with like online how do i be a thought leader and posted you know you guys.
00:15:44
Speaker
do this for other companies, but helping them be thought leaders, but then saying to them, okay, employees, why don't you share this on LinkedIn? Because then their whole network knows.
00:15:56
Speaker
Right. And being a thought leader isn't clubbing somebody over the head and asking somebody to buy your product right now. It's explaining the problem that you solve first and being empathetic for those people who are having that problem.
Crafting Your Elevator Speech
00:16:12
Speaker
That's, that's the kind of thing that it gets you noticed, especially on social. Right. But I, you know, and I, and again, maybe I jumped in pretty quickly on that, on that introduction and I'm definitely, uh,
00:16:25
Speaker
a little bit faster on talking about myself than maybe the average person is, but I think you have to find that balance of you got to talk about yourself so people know you're in the game, but then you also have to really demonstrate that you're a connector or that you will refer business so that other people know you're valuable to have in their network.
00:16:49
Speaker
And if you don't do that, then people do really think you're all about you. And we all know those people. And that gets into what people commonly refer to as the elevator speech, right? You have three sentences to explain what you do, go.
00:17:08
Speaker
Right. I think groups like, and I don't want to name organizations, but one that has three syllable or three letters and ends in I, gets a bad rap for this sometimes because it's so purpose-driven and it's a networking group. I attended one of these groups and they had 130 members in this group.
00:17:32
Speaker
So you had 36 seconds per person to give your little ad and it went up and back an entire gymnasium like they had people seated facing each other three rows down the entire gymnasium back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. It was wild.
Transactional vs Relational Networking
00:17:50
Speaker
There's no way to make a good business connection inside of a group that size that's that quick.
00:17:57
Speaker
I don't know. So Dave, I've gone to a couple of groups and I have mixed feelings on that. Yeah, I'm super curious. Well, because I think
00:18:10
Speaker
It's about, are you willing to make the commitment to the other people's businesses? Because the people that are in there, I think they keep coming back because they must be having successes. But I had somebody tell me, because again, six months ago I was really exploring it and I still think about it because I bumped into a woman at a different event, at PSA.
00:18:34
Speaker
a different event that was in that group. Actually, they wouldn't let me in the group that I went to. Like every high school, every group has its own vibe. They wouldn't let me in because there was somebody else in there that he said he did executive coaching and sales development. I'm like, I think there's enough to go around, but he wouldn't let me in.
00:18:55
Speaker
My point is, when I talked to my coach about this, she said, paper, because that's what everybody calls me. She goes, paper, you're a relationship networker. Those groups are transactional networkers. I said, okay, hold on. That's a totally new foreign concept to me.
00:19:19
Speaker
But I think there's something about that, but yet when I get into a couple of groups, I feel that they really all care about each other's success, some more than others, right?
00:19:31
Speaker
For a lot of people, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. They like to be in that room. They get a car repairman. They get a marketing firm maybe. They get a lawyer, a financial service provider. Maybe there's the executive coach, a construction person, whatever the group, it's easier for them. I prefer to be the free agent, but again, that was my
00:19:56
Speaker
Trigby, were you going to say something to that transactional versus relational? I think it's a brilliant differential. I was just saying I was oohing because it was a light bulb moment for me. Here's for me when I talk about this.
Building Networks Organically
00:20:15
Speaker
Let's say we have the All-Star 100 network. We built the top 25 people, but then we build it out more of who's in the All-Star 100 network.
00:20:26
Speaker
Those are people that I want to share my network with them, spend time with them, connect with them, do that. I think some people build their network right in that group and it works for them. For me, I've just always done it more organically by being a part of the associations for the industries I want to do business in.
00:20:50
Speaker
Society of Human Resource Management, Minnesota CFAs, sales associations, team women. I don't know what organizations are you a part of right now?
00:21:04
Speaker
Well, we focus a lot on manufacturing at BusyWeb and B2B services. So we are very active in the Minneapolis Chamber and also in a manufacturing trade association, the MPMA, Minnesota Precision Manufacturers Association. And I'm of the firm belief that I don't get involved in anything that I'm not going to get
00:21:28
Speaker
really involved with, like I won't join an organization just to attend two events a year. I'm gonna be on the board of that organization because I just don't know any other way to force myself to be there and to give back to the organization. It's also an easier conversation to say I'm on the board of this organization because I believe in it and I believe in working with people like you, so I would love to have a conversation. It feels more natural or organic, right?
00:21:57
Speaker
And did you come out of the blocks knowing to be on the board? Because that's an all-star move. Well, I don't know if it was on the blocks or off the blocks, but it just always felt disingenuous to just join something. And maybe that's a personal hangup I have with transactional organizations like networking groups that are just literally passing leads. I'd much rather forge relationships and have those all come up.
00:22:26
Speaker
Yeah. Good. Cause I mean, again, I'm, I'm writing that down because, because I do, it's one of the tips that I'll say to people is get involved, you know, get involved and be a part of something and, you know, start volunteering. And, you know, if you don't have money to join an organization or you don't have, you know, a lot of people say, well, my company won't pay for me to join. Okay. We'll go volunteer and scope it out to see if you like the organization, because then you'll meet some people there.
00:22:56
Speaker
and you can get to know people. This is a good time to take a little bit of a break, but let's come back and circle back around to the approach and talk about when you're networking, how to walk up to somebody and what to say and how to say it. I have a particular cadence that I use that I learned from Mandy Patankin that I'll reveal and see what Kathy thinks about it as we come back from the break.
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00:23:23
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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00:24:51
Speaker
All right, we're back. I have a patented four step approach that I learned from Broadway star Mandy Patankin that leads out how to approach anybody and how to talk to them.
Four-Step Networking Process
00:25:03
Speaker
So I'm curious to know what Kathy thinks of it. So it's a four step process. Anytime I walk up to somebody, I give them a polite greeting. That's my first one. My second one is I tell them my name.
00:25:18
Speaker
My third is a relevant personal link if I have one. And then fourth, I manage expectations. The reason I, the way I got this from, uh, Mandy Patankin is relevant personal link. Right on. Yep. Fourth one is manage expectations. So the easiest way to remember this is to think of Mandy Patankin's character in the princess bride. Hello.
00:25:48
Speaker
Step one, polite greeting. Step two, tell him your name. My name is Diego Montoya. Step three, relevant personal link. You killed my father. Step four, prepare to die. Talking about how your relationship is gonna go moving forward. The next action. I like it. The next action. Okay, so now I like that one. Now if we were gonna do it, you and I meet each other at the business Minneapolis Chamber event.
00:26:18
Speaker
Yeah, I probably wouldn't tell you that you killed my father and threatened to kill you. Right. Prepare to die. Would the relevant personal link be, I've always admired your company or we build websites or what would you say there? How would you? I want to do it. Can I do it, Trigby? Okay, go. Yeah, go. Hi, my name is Dave Meyer. We build websites for manufacturing companies and help them drive more leads.
00:26:47
Speaker
I'd love to have a conversation with you about that sometime soon. No, it's not bad.
00:26:54
Speaker
I think the call to action at the end is weak, but I was going off the top. Again, death threats aside, I think it's a good structure. Don't sleep on death threats is a valuable networking tool, I think. I would say, hi, Kathy, my name is Trigvi. I work for a company called BusyWeb. We help people grow their companies using digital tools. Tell me about you. Now, if I'm going to compare and contrast,
00:27:25
Speaker
I like that Dave said leads and you said digital tools. I'm wondering if we were doing this, would you ever ask, make the other person go first so you know a little bit more about what might be their problem or do you always go first?
00:27:43
Speaker
I like to have other people go first because then I'm reacting. I think of that as the opposite. I think I'm being proactive if I can learn something about you first so I can make that relevant connection. We talked a little earlier before the break about LinkedIn. I think everybody's overrun right now with the same LinkedIn script. Hi, first name.
00:28:07
Speaker
My name is X from company Y and here's what we do. Can I have 15 minutes? My answer is no. No. No. Cause I wonder cause I really, I like your framework a lot and what both of you guys said was it works for me. I wonder if that relevant personal link is where I want to say something that gets their attention. Like,
00:28:34
Speaker
Like when i was doing a lot of book marketing with speakers and authors i would say something like hi my name is kathy paper i do book marketing and eighty percent of authors sell under a thousand copies all my clients have sold more. If you're writing a book could we talk something that's got a little bit of zip.
00:28:58
Speaker
Which is why I like the digital tools. I just wonder if that relevant personal link is where we all get a little unsure of how bold do I say something or how do I engage genuinely in a way that says, hey, I know my stuff because you guys know your stuff. In networking, again, some of the best networkers I know,
00:29:24
Speaker
have a really nice way of not coming across sort of cocky, you know, because they're just, they're real. They plant one seed that makes you both like them and respect them at the same time. You know what I'm saying? And, and, and yet that makes the other person curious. So like what you said, Dave, about leads, I was like, okay, if I'm in manufacturing right now,
00:29:50
Speaker
I need more business. This website, but nothing's happening. My salesperson isn't doing much. If you can help me generate more leads, great. That's something I can get my arms around. Same Trigby, if you said digital tools, we make people thought leaders in the LinkedIn space. It is that balance because you don't have a lot of time.
00:30:16
Speaker
But I always try to say something, again, I'm one of my clients, you know, and if he listens to this podcast, he'll probably call me because he may not remember this story.
Offering Value in Networking
00:30:26
Speaker
But he was, lives in Milwaukee, and he was, he met Brett Favre, right? And met Brett Favre in an event. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Dave, Brett Favre is a football player.
00:30:43
Speaker
Oh, and it's Brett Favre. Favre, Favre. All right, continue, yeah. Anyway, and he meets him and he says, how can I be helpful to you, right? Because part of networking is being of service to other people or helping him. Three months later, Brett Favre calls him. They end up doing deals together. He finds him all kinds of money off the field. He was one of his first agents, right? When I meet him, it's 10 years later, he's like,
00:31:11
Speaker
No, I don't really want to talk about that paper. That was a long time ago. I'm like, okay, I'm sorry, but everybody knows who Brett Favre is. Not everybody knows who you are yet. Let's talk about that because that story and how you did it was so natural that tell people that. It's not braggadocia, it's a fact he was Brett Favre's agent. There's a picture of the two of them running together.
00:31:40
Speaker
say that or even maybe there's some way in that relevant personal link to land a point that says, you've helped people increase whatever 10 percent or 25 percent. As a means of offering a relevant personal link, I recently used AI technology to create a picture of Dave and I running together.
00:32:04
Speaker
Yeah. Nice. Well, let's put that in the show notes. Now we got to actually go running. Kathy, what's the most success you've ever had from a networking engagement? The most success. Or just a good solid, oh, this is why I should network. It's happened to me and this is great. I'm so glad that I took the leap.
00:32:33
Speaker
Yeah, we're trying to get people to get off their butts and get to that next networking event. So this is our testimonial.
00:32:42
Speaker
Um, we're trying to get people to network out to their next event. We, we know, we know Kathy paper as the networking guru. Give us, give us a rock star, a rock paper star. Um, I just think, you know, part of it is, and we, we started with the golf analogy of is networking the, the, the driver in your golf bag. Uh, I worked with two people in the, um, wealth management space.
00:33:11
Speaker
that really felt like they had to network only in the office. That I have to invite somebody, I have to get them to come into the meeting, into our conference room, I have to get them in there. And when I said to them, where do you like to spend your time? The summer months were coming, we live here in Minnesota. I like to golf.
00:33:36
Speaker
And I said, and who do you golf with? They're like, well, I golf with these people. I golf with those people. I said, what if you made a goal for every week? When you golf, you golf with two new people and you build your network that way. And they were like, what? I can do that. I'm like,
00:33:53
Speaker
I didn't make the rules on this. This is about building relationships. Yes, of course you can golf with people because, again, I'm new to golf, but what I see is a lot of people do business with each other. They get to know people.
Networking in Comfortable Settings
00:34:08
Speaker
They bring people in their fold. If that's available to you or you have a hobby that you're into,
00:34:15
Speaker
invite people to do that. Pickleball is super social right now. And in fact, here's one thing you can promote is I'm going to be hosting a networking event at a pickleball place where there'll be a beginner court and then there'll be a intermediate court.
00:34:30
Speaker
But along with it will be some forced networking, not three dozen rows or three rows of people back to back, but like quality, a good sized group of people because when you're networking to answer the
00:34:46
Speaker
Original question the smaller groups are where some of the magic can happen So when you meet people in say a big conference the sooner you can get to a smaller setting be the one that says hey Let's all meet in the hotel bar, you know, we've all connected put four people together You're not as nervous because it's not one-on-one You're put the foursome together or you put ten together I used to do monthly luncheons where I'd collect people and say hey, let's get together
00:35:17
Speaker
That's my story. Network places where you're comfortable and invite other people in because we do business with people we know, like, and trust. Some people are much more relaxed when they're doing a hobby or they're on a board and they're talking about the film festival.
00:35:35
Speaker
and then they get to know people they need a banker they need a web person they need a lawyer you know we're all looking to connect but if you're really struggling go places where you where you feel comfortable and then the magic will happen.
00:35:51
Speaker
I think this is a really important part that I want to underscore a little bit more, Kathy, because one of the biggest questions that we get with clients that are trying to build their networks is, you know, where do I even go? Where do I start? So do you have a favorite, like getting started when you're working and coaching with people? Where do you send people to go network and to get a hang of this?
00:36:14
Speaker
So I actually started something called Papers List that is a list of Minnesota-based events that people can populate with their events. But what I do is, once you've done the goal setting, let's talk about where do you want to go, and then you start looking
00:36:31
Speaker
between LinkedIn and a Google search, you can find out what some of the events are.
Finding Networking Events
00:36:37
Speaker
You can also find out which are the colleges and graduate programs that have some professional sort of tentacles in business communities or nonprofit communities. I tend to start there because it's a great way to get a lay of the land.
00:36:54
Speaker
I also tell people if you're not reading the local publications, whether it's the American City Business Journals or here we have Twin Cities Business Monthly, if you're not reading those to know who some of the players are and sponsors are and understand your industries, it's going to be harder. So I start there because then you can find out who the events are, what the events are, what the organizations are to be a part of. Okay, cool.
00:37:24
Speaker
Well, I absolutely want, uh, uh, access to, uh, to papers list. Cause that's, uh, yeah, that'd be fantastic. You know, I haven't linked it up to that one yet. I worked this, um, why am I blanking on there and I'm blanking on this group's name and I found them on Instagram and these guys are great. Uh, we'll put it in the, well, let's put it in the link notes. I'm not going to show it, but they built this and, um,
00:37:54
Speaker
Here, let's see if I can find it. Anyway, and I put some of the names, you know, events up there, and it's going to be self populated. And then it tells people like, hey, this one has good parking, or this is a good event, or whether it's free versus paid, because I just know it's overwhelming. I use it to to to to find events, but sure.
00:38:18
Speaker
Any of your clients, Dave, this would be a good one you can ask over to me. Anybody that is struggling with it, sit down in an hour, we'll have found at least two or three of them for them to sample. Oh, for sure. I love that. We'll put that as an action too. We're going to have all kinds of fun actions at the end of this. Everybody's got homework. Dave, what was the best thing you ever got out of networking?
Impact of a Strong Network
00:38:41
Speaker
Yeah, I think it kind of occurred to me when I was talking to my daughter because she's graduating from high school this year and she has an entrepreneurial class, an entrepreneurship class. And she was asking me a bunch of different things about different
00:38:56
Speaker
business needs. And I said, I have a person for that. And then for everything she needs, like lawyer, have a person account and have a person banker, I have a guy, you know, marketer, I have a gal, you know, whatever. And she's like, how do you know everybody? It's like, that's because I network and I keep track of it. And I have a CRM. And all I have to do is look at my networking list. And I've got that in one easy spot.
00:39:21
Speaker
So that's probably the easiest example. Half of our business, at least half of the business that BusyWeb does comes through our network. So I think that's huge.
00:39:32
Speaker
Can we talk about this because both of you are all-star networkers. Can we talk about how do you keep track of your list or you mentioned your networking list and then you said your Instagram. Can you describe for somebody that's just getting started sort of your nuts and bolts, if you don't mind?
00:39:53
Speaker
Sure, absolutely. Well, there's a couple of ways that we do this or that we counsel people. So the first and the easiest one is just to do something free like Google Sheets and to keep a spreadsheet of everything that you or all of your networking groups and contacts. But what I like even better is using a CRM like HubSpot, HubSpot.com. You can set up your CRM for free. And then all you need to do is label
00:40:19
Speaker
that person when you load them into the system as to what kind of a connection they are. They're a manufacturing networking client, and then you can just look up a list. So that's what I always go back to. Usually I have enough brain power left that I can just do a search for that person, but it's always easy to have a nice handy handoff or a nice, a nice easy handoff if I have the detail about that person in my notes about them.
Organizing Networking Efforts
00:40:50
Speaker
Great. And when do you make the notes? Because that would be a part...
00:40:54
Speaker
almost immediately. Yeah. So I mean, the quickest I can. So after every networking meeting, like the morning after usually, I'll go in and any business cards that I, that I collected or any contacts or people that I knew I needed to follow up with, I'll do that while my brain is still, you know, hot on that particular topic or that event. And then I fill it out, make myself tasks and connect with them.
00:41:21
Speaker
Great. I do something relatively similar, and it's actually based on, Kathy, something I got from you of the top 100 is I'm still working to identify my top 100, but then I'm going to put them on a dynamic list that I can add or delete people.
00:41:38
Speaker
And then as I know people who are looking for things, like, hey, do you know a painter? Hey, do you know somebody who does this? Hey, do you know somebody who does this? I'm actually going to email the list and say, hey, I've got somebody who's looking for somebody who does this. Do you know somebody who could help? Please let me know. Because I think that especially as somebody who works almost exclusively in sales, the way that I avoid being cocky is I lead with help.
00:42:06
Speaker
And I lead with how to not, you're not cocky because you're actually genuinely trying to do good for other people. Right. Yep. I can, I'm what you do, what you said of the giving somebody the painter. I call that the networking assist. How can I, how can I, you know, I'm a big basketball fan. Um, and, um, Elijah Hawkins who plays for the Gophers is leading in assists, right? In the country.
00:42:35
Speaker
and he's all about the past. Can I make the past? And he sure he scores, but anything you can do to give the assist, and I call it the networking assist because it means other people know you're a good person to have because you're helpful in a situation. Oh, hey, Paper, I need somebody. I need somebody to do this. That can be a super great. So that's great, Trigby, that you do that.
00:42:59
Speaker
Yeah. And I think the other thing is when you go into networking, you can't just expect somebody's going to give you business right then because they don't know you and they don't trust you. But what you can do is by building trust, by making connections.
00:43:12
Speaker
Yeah. And that's what that three letter organization that Dave referred to earlier calls it the givers gain. Yeah. That if you're giving chances are now the problem is if you get to if you if you hyper extend that like I realized, based on our networking coaching is that I do a lot of things that I put a lot into that I don't get a lot out of. There absolutely has to be reciprocity out of it. Yes.
00:43:35
Speaker
I mean it's one of the biggest challenges about networking. I think is how do you make people feel special. But maintain a lot of relationships and you know maybe there's a reason why sometimes I like networking to you know who's on your holiday card list if you send out holiday cards.
Consistency and Follow-Up in Networking
00:43:59
Speaker
And some years you get disorganized or you can't keep up with it all or doing that. So there's sort of the, how do you make people feel special? And to me, special is you put the handwritten note on there on the card. Yeah, you get it printed at Shutterfly, but you still write a handwritten note, hope to see you in 2024 or anything you can do with your network to make them feel special, but it's time consuming.
00:44:25
Speaker
So again, you guys are both all-star people because the last phase of what we've talked about, kind of this framework that we'll put in the notes, is that ask and nurture. And nurture is where the magic happens. That's where when you told your daughter, Dave, you have a person, Matt Tallett, Midtown Global Market, who I worked with, he would always say, I got a guy.
00:44:49
Speaker
We would always say, you got a guy, and then I'd be like, do you have a girl? Do you got a guy? As you get more seasoned and are the all-star networker, everybody, you have a guy. People just know that about you and know you'll be really helpful at solving a problem. But when you're building it, you're looking for, how can I be the one that is the guy or the gal to solve that problem? I did it at the beginning. When I left Best Buy, I didn't have a network.
00:45:19
Speaker
Not at all. I was totally caught flat-footed and
00:45:25
Speaker
I knew people, but I needed to go show up. So I did a lot of showing up at other people's events or showing up at the right places and building rapport and doing what I said I was going to do and joined office centers, met you, met a lot of people. Ben Schold told me this once at the bus stop, Ben's a lawyer,
00:45:53
Speaker
here and in Chicago and he said to me, you got to be in it for the long haul. He's like, people can sniff it out if you're not. I was like, what does that mean? He goes, they need to know you're going to be in business three years from now or they're not going to waste their time with you and you got to be the kind of person that they know you're reliable. Some of those basics of the follow-up or of
00:46:17
Speaker
showing up at the event when you say you're going to do being polite. Hi, my name is Trigvi Olson. That goes a long way. The amount of people that never introduce themselves to me, I'm like, you want to shake my hand, say hi, what do you do? And just you want me to read your name tag? No, come on. Let's be real. We're human beings. Let's talk to each other. Absolutely.
00:46:39
Speaker
So well, I think let's end this and good networking fact.
Networking Coaching and Resources
00:46:45
Speaker
Kathy, as people are looking for help when they're not working and getting better at it, where can they find you? Well, they can find me at rockpaperstar.com. They can also I think they should check it out if you live in Minnesota. Let's check out Paper's List and see if we can populate that with
00:47:02
Speaker
good networking events that you go to. It's not comprehensive yet. You can also find me on LinkedIn. I would give you this tip though is don't just click connect on LinkedIn. Tell me why you want to connect. Because I found that I didn't want to just accept. I want to know why do you want to connect? Because my network is valuable and I want to help people, but I want to know you. I want to make sure you're a good person. Love that.