Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
James Horman
278 Plays7 months ago
James is a Masters athlete and he balances his running around full time teaching, family life, coaching and coach education.
Listen to hear Michelle and James chat about:
- Club running, what can clubs do to improve the support they give to athletes, especially on large group session, and how they can ensure their sessions provide purposeful training.
- Coach education, how can coaches better help their athletes?
- Masters running, getting more competitive as we age, the importance of recovery, and James debunks some misconceptions.
- Some marathon training tips (pacing, planning).
James' recent running highlights -
10th Place and 1st v40 at Manchester Half in 68:09 2023,
3rd place at Carslbad 5000 'Worlds fastest 5Km' Masters race, California, April 2024.
Follow James on Instagram
Enjoy!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Jane's Multifaceted Life
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, Jane. Thank you so much for joining us on the UK Run Chat podcast today. Now, you're a very busy person. You've kind of rushed from work and then training and then sorting the family out before you join us. Do you want to just give us an introduction to you, your running and what you do?
00:00:17
Speaker
Yeah, hi, Michelle. And thanks so much for having me on. It's a bit of a privilege, really. There's so much going on with UK run chats, a lot of people around. So it's nice to be on and share a little bit of a story about where I'm at as well as a runner, a coach and a teacher as well. So that's my sort of
00:00:38
Speaker
sort of set up at the moment. That's why things are so busy.
Jane's Running Journey and Balancing Act
00:00:42
Speaker
But for me, I've always been a runner. I've been a runner since sort of secondary school days where I was at Peterborough AC. I moved up to University in Liverpool, of which I joined Liverpool AC after that.
00:00:55
Speaker
Liverpool Harry is sorry and and stayed with them since really so as part of that part of my degree I was doing a teaching degree in Liverpool I've then obviously continued to do teaching at the same time as doing running okay running for Liverpool over distances for sort of road cross-country track
00:01:18
Speaker
tried everything pretty much and now i'm at the stage where i'm also a master's runner i've had the opportunity to run for england masters over sort of 10k half marathon cross country and i think that's given me a bit of a lease a new lease of life really to be to be honest in regards to that i'm currently an assistant head teacher at secondary school in south liverpool
00:01:40
Speaker
which brings its own challenges with training and family and things like that. So for me it's all about fitting everything in but doing it in an enjoyable way that I can coach, I can make sure my boys and my family are involved in sport as much as possible and obviously do it in a way that's enjoyable, that's the priority really.
Masters Running and Club Experiences
00:02:02
Speaker
Yeah, fantastic. Thanks for that. So yeah, I really want to talk about the Masters running. We'll dive into that in a bit. Let's just talk about like club running highlights for now. You've run with two clubs there that you mentioned. What was your favourite discipline?
00:02:17
Speaker
I think growing up as a kid, I think that the enjoyment came from doing track. I think the team spirit element of being able to do sort of National Junior League and the sort of the relationships that I've still got today. There's a group of us that are still from sort of 30 years ago still in contact. We actually go and do, I don't know, one of your podcast speakers was talking about it. We go and do Endure 24.
00:02:44
Speaker
and we're going to do that as a group and this year we're going to be going down to do Endure at Reading and I think those relationships are really really important and it's great especially as some of them aren't runners anymore but some of them obviously that's their priority in the year to actually get fit for Endure. As I got a little bit older
00:03:08
Speaker
I've enjoyed increasing the distances as most people do. I think the focal point turned to being, let's do a marathon because everyone sort of sees the marathon as the epitome and, oh, you're a runner, have you done a marathon yet? I think that sort of gets ingrained in us a little bit. So to be fair,
00:03:26
Speaker
My first few experiences of marathons weren't really as positive as they could have been I didn't really understand them as much as I should have done and I took them for granted that I was based on the track history I thought I could basically jump into a marathon it certainly wasn't the case so it's one of them where I'm really enjoying road now I'm enjoying sort of a half marathons that I've been doing and had sort of a little bit of success at masters level as well which has obviously changed things as well the super shoes do help
00:03:56
Speaker
I'm going to be honest.
Shoe Preferences and Psychological Boosts
00:03:58
Speaker
Which one do you prefer James? I'm a vaporfly person. I don't buy lots of expensive carbon shoes but I've just stuck with vaporfly. They seem to be helping me at the moment but there's a
00:04:14
Speaker
it's one of them you don't know which your your sort of preferences because of probably cost to be honest that actually you might only buy one pair and you think well it's it's helping me a little bit but in fact you might be suited towards a different brand so i've stuck with night because it seems to be working but to be fair i haven't really tried that many others no what kind of difference do they make genuinely
00:04:37
Speaker
Genuinely, I think, I mean, technically, there's obviously a lot more sort of give back in terms of bounce. It makes you stability-wise less stable, but I know that the shoes out there that would obviously
00:04:53
Speaker
Sort of still have carbon plate but a little bit more stability however for sort of road racing and things like that it's Something that sort of propels you forward a little bit more, especially if you're a novice run it's quite a weird sensation to get used to and actually
00:05:10
Speaker
you certainly need quite a few runs in carbon shoes, but it's the fact of actually, you probably maybe only want once, you don't want to rely on them every session. I feel, I think you sort of, you need to have a basis of non-carbon shoes to make sure you Achilles and everything in terms of mechanical movements around that joint, a firm and actually you're building that basis of what you need to do before you put on a carbon shoe really.
00:05:38
Speaker
Yeah, so how much training would you do in your carbon footwear then?
00:05:42
Speaker
To be honest, I would do about once every two or three weeks. Right, that little, yeah. Yeah, and then just, I think maybe it's a psychological thing for me. If I know that I can do a good session in a non-carbon shoe and then I can put them on on race day, and then actually I know how to run well in them. Obviously with carbon, it's a bit different. Turning corners sharply is a little bit of a challenge occasionally, especially in some road races, but for me,
00:06:09
Speaker
yeah I think it's a psychological element of putting them on and then feeling like well I've got an advantage there and even though everyone's wearing them you feel that actually it's better for you in the whole so tempo runs I've been doing I think also
00:06:24
Speaker
To be honest, if you're doing a long run and you're able to recover quicker from those long runs, if you marathon training or half marathon training and you can wear a carbon shoe, then obviously it's better for you in the long run and stuff like that. But yeah, there is an advantage. I'm breaking PBs and I'm 45 at the end of this year. So at the end of the day, if I'm still breaking PBs at 45, there's either something wrong or it's the carbon shoes that I'm wearing.
00:06:50
Speaker
Oh you can't just put it down to the shoes surely. Yeah we'll talk a little bit about your training as well.
First Marathon Lessons and Club Role in Preparation
00:06:56
Speaker
So let's just go back to that kind of first marathon distance as I know that's something that people are always interested in and it is something the marathon distance isn't it? Whereas people, because people understand the marathon distance more than any other I think so they'll always ask obviously time and you know which marathon did you do.
00:07:14
Speaker
What was that first answer and how was that experience? Like I said, I think sometimes there's, and this is the critique of some clubs and some training that you just get into a monotonous sort of Tuesday, Thursday, those are your sessions and you do your steady runs and you probably not seeing over a period of time actually differences in your training or your training blocks. And I think sometimes with clubs actually with bigger groups, you can actually fall into the habit of having that
00:07:45
Speaker
not real individual centered focus for what you're actually aiming for and potentially when I sort of late 20s got into that point of actually I need to do something different because I've done this for sort of since I was 11 or 12 since I was in secondary school and I want to do something completely different so I went into the marathon quite naive
00:08:07
Speaker
I thought that I didn't really need any fuel for that marathon. I was fortunate enough to get a championship entry. So I was moving well enough to get sort of that place. But when it came to the training, I got injured because I started to just do too much too soon. And then I was raising funds for cancer research at the time, which was a focus for me, which sort of drove me on to do more and more training. But it actually was quite detrimental. So it got to the point where actually
00:08:38
Speaker
It's still a reasonable time, but I did it in a really, really tough and tricky way where I got to 20 miles thinking, oh, I'm cruising here. And then all of a sudden I went from sort of six minute mile into seven minute mile into eight minute mile into eight 30 and things like that.
00:08:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's one of them where in a school, especially the school that I was at at the time, everyone knows that you're doing a marathon. So all the kids rask and things like that. So you sort of build a little bit of pressure. The kids on the tracker were actually tracking me versus Katie Price.
00:09:12
Speaker
So it was one of them where it was like, are you going to get picked up by the seven hour bus? Or are you actually going to finish this race? So it was good. I finished in two hours 47, but it was the last six miles that actually, to be honest, it actually put me off running. Did it? Yeah. So I know that it's a good time and lots of people would love to have that time, but the way I did it just made me feel awful.
00:09:40
Speaker
And I came across the line going, that was the most horrific experience. And I've done 400s and 800s and 1500s where you filled full of lactic, but this was a completely different sensation that obviously quite a lot of people will have felt if the training isn't right and they haven't prepared in the best way. And from then it was a case of sort of going back to basics, understanding what was important for me and then doing the races that I enjoy. And I think that was.
00:10:08
Speaker
me up to a point before having a family and things like that.
Coaching Insights and Transition from Teaching
00:10:12
Speaker
Yeah and I mean how you you were within a club then how how much responsibility should kind of your club kind of take to guide you through that because there's a lot of experience in clubs isn't there and how do we how do we harness that to get the best out of people? Yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of experience but it depends on the experience of the individual it depends on that group and what they're training for and I know that
00:10:36
Speaker
When I joined a bigger club, it was a bit of an eye opener to the times and the distances they were doing. I had gone from Peterborough that was a little bit smaller. I went to university at Liverpool and basically all of a sudden they were doing a lot quicker times just on the size of the club and the expectations. It was much, much better for me to step up. However,
00:10:57
Speaker
The fact is when you focus in on one event such as the marathon, there might not be a marathon specific coach or there might not be a 10K coach. Well, actually the group that you join in might be focusing on something that might be three or four months away and you've just got to sort of settle in. So it's quite hard, especially if you're a novice runner that actually you understand
00:11:17
Speaker
what you're trying to get out of that session and what you're trying to get over a period of time because it's quite hard to say, well, hold on, actually, this session isn't good for me. Can I join in for a little bit and then jump out? And that's what I'm certainly finding with some of the athletes that are coming to me sort of saying, I need a bit more support, a little bit more guidance because, and they're honest to say that the group sessions,
00:11:43
Speaker
they're not getting that information, probably because of the group size and things like that, but they're not getting that information about how to progress themselves as a runner in terms of their targets and what they want and things like that. Yeah. And I don't know, I don't know how, how you change that really, I guess.
00:11:59
Speaker
No, it's all down to expertise. If an ultra runner came to me and said, can I train for an ultra? I'd say, well, to be honest, I wouldn't be able to coach to the level that I'd expect because I've got no experience of it. To be honest, the demand is when ultra is completely different to a half or a full marathon or a 10K and things like that. I think clubs are
00:12:22
Speaker
asking the volunteers to give up their time and that they're incredible people that do that to make sure that they can facilitate. One of the clubs that I'm working with at the moment, over winter they were having upwards of 80 or 90 new members to their club.
00:12:39
Speaker
So they were sort of saying, and this is one of the things I mentioned to you, that then their coaches, and they're talking about maybe one coach with a group of 60 or 70 runners, two coaches maybe, how can they actually coach? Because it's more of a facilitation session, whereas actually they're just leading, they're giving an insight into what they could potentially do. And that's where
00:13:02
Speaker
this whole setup for me as a runner, a coach and a teacher sort of came through to sort of set up something a little bit different, a little bit of guidance for coaches, a little bit of coaching for athletes if they wanted that, something a little bit more specific. So it's hard for coaches out there because
00:13:20
Speaker
They're going to get torn towards what their group goals are. They might have a club competition. There might be a 10K in October or March or something like that. But that could be their focal point. But understanding exactly what they want to do is a priority. And suppose you have to set your stall out as a coach and sort of say, well, actually, I'm a junior coach. I'm going to be coaching junior middle distance. And that's what I'm going to be doing.
00:13:44
Speaker
Yeah. And then you're kind of putting it back on the athlete then to say, is this for me? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. You mentioned leadership versus coaching there. So what's, what's the difference then? Is it just down to pure numbers coaching more one-on-one?
00:13:59
Speaker
No, I mean everything comes down to that athlete coach relationship and the amount of time that they're willing to sort of invest. A coach is someone who will obviously work a lot more in terms of technical analysis of what's going on. There's a long-term plan in place and that relationship obviously means that those training sessions are flexible
00:14:19
Speaker
Understand the athlete a lot more and their demands are over a period of time. They're looking at different training cycles and how that person fits in to make sure that they're getting the best for whatever their targets are. It's quite a hard thing to do, especially if you've got big groups in a number, big numbers in that group to actually understand
00:14:38
Speaker
what that athlete wants and how that coach can support but the big difference is being able to sort of iron out any technical faults, give them tips and pointers and how can a coach do how could a leader do that with such vast numbers to sort of say well actually look at look at how your leg swings out or your arms are coming out on this run and this that and the other so
00:15:00
Speaker
Yeah it's it's big i mean i think the biggest thing for me is to especially from online to actually build that relationship to understand what that. Athlete wants or that coach wants so i can give guidance and support this meaningful and they can understand it because. You have to empower that runner to take control of their running.
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's it, isn't it? Yeah. And it's at the end of the day, it's about them being knowledgeable enough to understand that I, as the coach, I can't do every session for them and they're going to have to take ownership of certain sessions, but they're going to come to me for guidance about which direction they think they're going to go and things like that. Yeah, it's a two-way conversation. Yeah, completely agree. Yeah. So what got you into coaching then? Was it a coach that inspired you or something else? Yeah, I mean,
00:15:52
Speaker
To be honest, always doing a teaching degree and going straight into secondary PE, head of department as a PE and now an assistant head, there's always that progression to working with adults and things like that. I've always worked, my initial roles were sort of as a PE teacher, working with small groups and coaching football and athletics and cross country. And I think it was a natural progression to go into working with adults as well. When the opportunity, I think it was,
00:16:19
Speaker
about. I mean I worked for England Athletics and Welsh Athletics for about 10 or 11 years, eventually for their coaching education team would go up and down the country delivering their coaching courses, qualifying hundreds and hundreds of prospective coaches or leaders in whichever qualification and that was so inspiring for me to meet all these new people who had
00:16:43
Speaker
Brilliant visions for what they wanted to have and how they could support and it was it was actually pre covid This actually it was all taking place. So we're talking about times when there was movement away from the typical club scene Because if i'm going to be really honest the words harriers or athletics group
00:17:03
Speaker
sometimes strikes fear into some newbie runners. I agree. I'm in a Harriers club. Yeah, I agree. It can be daunting, can't it? Yeah. And the word athletics track and getting runners to an athletics track is another thing that actually they think, wow, I don't think that's for me because I can't run fast. So they get this mindset of actually everything needs to be at the same pace.
00:17:27
Speaker
and i'm gonna do my safe session and things like that so it's tricky to get out of that for me being able to move into coach education it was a case of me developing myself understanding a little bit more about the sport that i loved and also being able to pass that on as well in an environment where
00:17:47
Speaker
It's completely different to teaching where you've obviously as a coach, you should have, I'm saying this lightly, you should have 16, 20 athletes who actually want to be there and really engaged. And obviously it's a completely different aspect to teach. And so it's nice to work with adults. It's nice to work with them over a long term and see that progress that they can make
Common Coaching Misconceptions and Session Design
00:18:10
Speaker
as well. Yeah. What skills do you notice amongst people who come into coaching them, the people that you're training?
00:18:17
Speaker
a certain type of person. Yeah, I mean, in terms of skills, the quality of their communication that they come across and the variety of their experiences is paramount, obviously. Some people come with a lot of misconceptions. Yeah. Such as?
00:18:38
Speaker
They could do a marathon in 10 weeks off very little work. They feel that they don't need any speed work as part of any sort of 10k work and they can just do it at whatever pace that they think. They think that
00:19:00
Speaker
A good fridge place is an easy thing to get. There's a lot of misconceptions out there. It could be to do with running technique. It could be to do with physical prep.
00:19:13
Speaker
especially as we're getting older, getting into Vets categories. It's a case of that physical prep. Some people know it as strength and conditioning. It's a paramount importance to maintain efficiency and being efficient runners is the most important thing for newbie runners and understanding exactly what they need to do to do that is really important. That comes from pretty much the routines that those clubs set.
00:19:41
Speaker
and those groups are set in to make sure that they're capable to meet the demands of that activity. It's quite an interesting one where you used to deliver courses.
00:19:55
Speaker
some of the challenging comments of, oh, we'd never warm up. And I know people have a lot of time constraints and you might have literally half an hour to go and do a session, but you've got to be that coach that sort of educates and makes sure that we sort of promote those good habits in people as well. Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that, because our club doesn't, like I'm thinking about our senior track session, we encourage athletes to come and warm up beforehand.
00:20:26
Speaker
But yeah, it's whether athletes are doing that properly really, isn't it? So yeah, maybe clubs should be overseeing that a bit and giving a bit more. Well, the warmup is the, yeah, and that's hard because you might have the track for a particular amount of time. And you might say, right, well, it's your responsibility, but what's the quality?
00:20:43
Speaker
in relation to the intensity of the activity that you're going to do. Have they done all the dynamics stretching? Have they done everything and do they know what to do? And that comes down to the coach and how they obviously go through it with those routines. To be honest, the junior setup at most clubs is really, really strong with that. And I think that there's a tendency that when we get to
00:21:07
Speaker
the senior age groups, actually, people just jump out of a car, they've had the heaters on, they've had the heated seats on and they think, right, well, that means I can go straight away. And that's sometimes what happens at the end of races. But these are the things that obviously groups and clubs and coaches have got to try and instill and try and get across that they are important for for long term reasons. Yeah, no, that's yeah, that's really important, isn't it?
00:21:32
Speaker
So what advice would you give to clubs out there about kind of putting structured workouts in there that are fun but have a training benefit? If you've got a lot of athletes of different abilities especially, how do you do that? Yeah, I mean the first thing I'd probably say is your training session has to have a purpose. Yeah.
00:21:51
Speaker
and those athletes need to understand the purpose of the session. So that comes in our instruction, our explanation as to what we're trying to get out of the session. In terms of actually a mixed ability differentiated session, there's so much good practice out there in terms of giving people the opportunity and also varying those opportunities in terms of maybe a time focus or even a distance focus.
00:22:17
Speaker
So lots of newbie runners will love to have the fact of having a time focus that they know that the running for two minutes was actually knowing that the running for 400 meters might put them off completely. I took a group session for a group near us. We had 20 runners and I had the fear factor of
00:22:38
Speaker
You're not going to make me run fast because I've got X marathon coming up. Right. Okay. Well, actually we are, but we're just going to get your legs moving a little bit quicker. So it's about explaining it at whatever pace that they can do. There's so much that every session should have some element of technical focus. Yeah.
00:22:58
Speaker
so it's not just about saying right we're going to do 12 400s or 12 300s or 12 by two minutes on the road or whatever it is but actually while we're doing this let's concentrate on our arms and the position of our shoulders or position of our head and let's lift up a little bit higher and all these different things that over time make a big difference but i think we get so bogged down with actually the logistics of the session
00:23:24
Speaker
And sometimes coaches are very sort of, I'm not going to say set in the ways, but they do become part of, well, Monday's this, Monday's this, Thursday's this race. So where's that group going as part of that? And it's important for athletes to sort of see where they want to be involved in that.
Masters Running Adaptation and Overtraining Signs
00:23:46
Speaker
That's the most important thing.
00:23:47
Speaker
Yeah, that's very good advice, thank you. Shall we kind of get back to you then in your Masters running? Do you want to tell us a little bit more about that? Yeah, I mean, I did. For those that don't know what Masters running is, can you just explain? Masters running in England obviously, through England athletics there's
00:24:12
Speaker
a whole host of different selection opportunities which take place and there's a lot of other athletes that will do a lot more than I've done. I've competed for England Masters for VET 35, for VET 40 and hopefully for VET 45 next year and I've gone from 10k to half marathon and across country and it's a lovely atmosphere
00:24:38
Speaker
It's quite for someone like me, I didn't get any sort of representative vests as a senior. However, to do that as a master is I think it's really, really nice. And I think a lot of the other masters do as well. The standards are improving year and year. I was
00:24:56
Speaker
In the VET 40 rankings last year, I was 10th, I think, with 68.09 for half marathon, with a 228 marathon as well. Obviously, there are particular standards and criteria to meet to get the selection. I think for the selection races, the majority race is its top three in each particular age banding to get through to represent England.
00:25:23
Speaker
there is an England Masters race at the Birmingham 10k which is taking place in a couple of weeks from now and that's
00:25:33
Speaker
I think that's all age groups as well against Wales. Okay, so that'd be good to do. I think, like I mentioned at the start, it's a lovely focus to actually go instead of having usual club runs, national cross country, Northern this or whatever 10K local to have something like that to focus on the name for different parts of the year is really, really good. And it's growing all the time. So that's good.
00:26:00
Speaker
Yeah. And what an honour to run in your best as well. That's fantastic. Yeah, it is. Yeah. So what changes have you noticed then in your training and your running now? To be honest, I think I'm actually training harder now as a vet than I am. That's ridiculous because my work stepped up as well and with kids. However, I think you become acutely aware of the time that you have.
00:26:27
Speaker
and actually maximising the time and when you can train. And I think as athletes it's important and coaches to guide everything from rest and recovery, but also to realise where there are opportunities to run. I do most, I'd say 99% of my runnings on my own.
00:26:46
Speaker
I live in South Warrington with timings with kids and work. The best times for me to go out is probably about five o'clock in the morning and then essentially get back for six and get to work for first meetings at 7.45.
00:27:04
Speaker
It's one of them where for me that fits in nicely. If I left it to 8 or 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock at night, then I know that I'm going to start having a few questions with myself to actually whether I'm actually going to go out. I think the biggest thing, the biggest changes from when I was 20s or 30s to when I'm obviously as a vet, it's
00:27:26
Speaker
It's that rest and recovery to make sure you can't keep doing the same intense sessions all the time through the week. And I think I now know the sessions that work for me and the sessions that are indicators for my levels of fitness.
00:27:45
Speaker
So I know that I've got a particular route around me that I can do as a tempo run and that will give me a good idea as to my current level of fitness and that's my one go-to that I can do that or there's a particular hill that I can do that's down the road and if I manage 10 of them under a certain amount of time then I think well actually I'm reasonably fit at this point in time. So I think for runners
00:28:10
Speaker
We often use races as examples. Some people use races as that element of building our level of fitness towards being better. But actually, races are the one thing that we should focus on. So it's a case of actually what we're doing in between to make sure that we're maintaining that level of fitness as well. Yeah. So what are the warning signs you would look out for then if you were perhaps not recovering as well as you should be?
00:28:40
Speaker
You got to be super careful with this because, and I was going to say Garmin and Colos in terms of heart rate. And as long as you can track over time the sort of resting heart rate, and if all of a sudden it starts to peak, I think you got to listen to your body. I think if the case is that you really are struggling to maintain a pace because of, that would normally be
00:29:05
Speaker
quite easy I think obviously there's that opportunity to go to reflect I think maybe I should just drop it down or cut this run a little bit shorter or just take it easy because you could take a rest day you could go for an active rest in terms of doing a swim or a cycle or anything like that or just being
00:29:25
Speaker
sitting and doing nothing is okay. I think that's one of the biggest things that I'm getting from runners at the moment who sort of said, well, hold on, most of my sessions are at seven minute mile, but you're telling me I've got to do this at nine minute mile?
00:29:40
Speaker
And they don't understand that actually to run faster, your body needs to recover. And there's someone on Instagram that did sort of say, am I okay to run at this pace? I think coaches have got to be wary of athletes who go out there and just do more.
00:30:00
Speaker
And they do more and they've, and, and yeah, I'm super critical of this with timings and things like that. However, having an understanding of over time, how many efforts you are doing and how many, how much, I think on Garmin, there's a training load that you can look at. There's a significant sort of green line that you can track and see where you, where you are sort of heading.
Social Media's Impact on Training Perception
00:30:22
Speaker
But again, if you're looking at novice beginner runners, they need that guidance to be told.
00:30:28
Speaker
actually this is a really important metric just to sort of say right are you getting enough sleep over over a week how many times have you gone under eight hours sleep or seven hours and there might be people listening to this going wow i wish i actually got seven hours but what can you catch up at a weekend or can you do anything to make sure that you are recovering because if if you start to do massive amounts of work
00:30:56
Speaker
family life and training all at once then there's always something that's going to give and it's about managing those loads as well. Yeah no it's tough isn't it? I mean how much of an impact do you think like things like Strava have on people not wanting to do those easy ones? It is difficult isn't it? Oh it's so hard, it's so hard and all these people that claim that they're doing
00:31:22
Speaker
six minute miles with with no carbon shoes on and this that and the other. I'm going to reserve judgment with that because I think we all know that there's someone in your club that will be the person that posts absolutely everything.
00:31:38
Speaker
And they will claim that even their hardest run was easy. Okay. But Strava is great in terms of raising the awareness of what you are doing. It gives people that self-confidence, it gives people the kudos. It also means you can track what you're doing, which is really important and you can compare.
00:31:57
Speaker
like for like what you've done in previous years in comparison to what you are doing now so it's good in that respect but just take it on face value that not everyone's putting on everything that they do and when they do put it on not all of their runs are at five minute and six minute mile yeah yeah it's so easy to compare isn't it you're not doing as well yeah well yeah i mean that's the whole that's the whole social media thing as well isn't it where you see
00:32:22
Speaker
especially people without families, people without major work commitments, smashing amazing sessions. And everyone goes, well, I need to be doing that now. Well, actually, you probably don't because that's going to cause a problem in a few weeks time or you're not ready for it. Physically, you can't cope with the demands of that activity. So that was one of the reasons that sort of
00:32:51
Speaker
I went from coach education working with coaches to working with athletes online, working with people locally just through word of mouth and just obviously getting that base of people who actually understand that
00:33:07
Speaker
there's a block of work that could be, I'm working with someone who's probably going to be over a two or three year plan that they want to get a good for age place. Yeah. Okay. And they, they've gone from sort of a three 50 to a three 30 to a three 10 and gone three Oh five and now two 57 and now it's getting so, so close. Okay. But that's over a period of time and that's a block of work. And that's, that's so much,
00:33:33
Speaker
focus and meaningful training that's really important so it's hard to see social media and sort of go well I should be doing more and this person's now done a gym session so I've got to do that gym session so the guidance element's really important. I did an online
00:33:51
Speaker
workshop, online marathon running workshop. I did two of them free to anyone. We had people from America, from South Africa, from up and down the country. It was just a free sort of Zoom call that anyone could join in on, which was amazing.
Building Athlete Relationships and Marathon Strategies
00:34:06
Speaker
And there's so many misconceptions in terms of the training, the preparations for it. And I think the biggest thing was fuel.
00:34:13
Speaker
Right. Yeah. That's the question we get asked a lot about, the UK Rinshaw. Yeah. The total grams that they've got. People were astounded that they were taking maybe one or two, two gels within the whole of a forearm marathon.
00:34:30
Speaker
and they're wondering why they're dropping off 30 minutes in the back part of a race and things like that. So they can learn from my mistakes. We've all been there, haven't we? Yeah, so it's really, it's a great place to be able to actually give that advice and obviously to get in touch with anyone and sort of be open to people and say, be honest with them and say, listen, there's so many coaches out there that will take on
00:34:58
Speaker
loads and there's people online that are doing hundreds upon hundreds of coaches sorry a coach taking hundreds and hundreds of athletes
00:35:08
Speaker
but actually are they giving that service as a proper coach? So that's what I'm doing. I'm doing a small group of athletes that over long-term want to improve, but also want to enjoy it and try and work out my sense of humor at the same time. It's done in a good way and it's done in a meaningful way to build that relationship as well.
00:35:31
Speaker
Yeah, I know that's really good to hear. I mean, how is your own background in teaching must have influenced your own kind of coaching style and your athletics background? Yeah, I think, and I've worked in some challenging schools up and down sort of across the Northwest. I think you sort of, you have that ability to develop relationships quickly. I hope people will probably disagree with me, but it's understanding
00:36:01
Speaker
from working with kids that element of engaging motivating people straight away and obviously being honest with them when if they think something's gone wrong for whatever reason say well actually it could have been because of this and being flexible enough to change things in the future I think when you're when your teacher
00:36:21
Speaker
moving when you've got 30 students in front of you as a PE teacher or a head of department it's about being very individual centered and I think that comes across with anything that I do that actually people have to feel that they've committed to coming to your coaching session.
00:36:38
Speaker
Have they gone away feeling as though actually they've got something out of it, that they know what they've done and why they've done that session? I bet half the runners around this country will go and do a session and they'll go, well, I don't know what I've done there for whatever reason. And I think that's probably a big thing for me as a teacher. You go through those routines of, well, what do I want out of that session? And how can I actually challenge those students to be the best that they can and support them in that process as well? I think that's really important as well.
00:37:07
Speaker
Yeah, that brings us back full circle. You said that at the beginning that every session should have a focus, shouldn't it? Yeah, I believe so, yeah. Even if that's for well-being, even if that's for stress relief, it doesn't have to be a physical performance. I think there's so many clubs out there who've missed the whole
00:37:25
Speaker
sort of technical focus or psychological focus of sort of pace judgment. Well, do your runners know what a 5K pace is? Or are they just going a little bit quicker than what they did in the rep before? Do they understand actually what paces they've got to do when they go to a race, when they go on to a 10K, they want to go sub 50 minutes. Well, actually, you can only go sub 50 minutes if you run X time for 5K. So there's a lot more work that I think
00:37:54
Speaker
could be happening and this is not being critical of everything that's out there, it's just I think there's a massive amount of people that have now come to the spot. Yeah, running's exploded hasn't it, like really? Yeah and it's amazing, it's such an incredible spot, that's why I've still got amazing friendships with people from when I was at secondary school, it's completely different and obviously the groups that are set up
00:38:20
Speaker
people need to know what they're doing and why they're doing it. And some people will hands on heart just go, I just want to turn up and be told just run around that track five times. Because that's my stress relief and that's fine. But at the end of the day, if you've done a training block, and it's purposeful training, you'd expect them to
00:38:42
Speaker
be some sort of improvement at the end of it and I think that that's obviously really important to maintain over a long period of time that you see in some sort of progress with you running. Yeah no that's so important. So let's just finish up then with some advice on the marathon distance because we've talked about that quite a bit tonight. So pacing is obviously key isn't it in terms of what would be your ideal pacing strategy during a marathon?
00:39:07
Speaker
I mean, for me, and I've done this this year with some of the runners I've been working with, I sent out a pacing chart of not certain times, they fill in their times, but in terms of planning and preparation, it's having every mile on it, understanding what, and there will be a fade. We're aiming to have a fade because if people suddenly get to mile 18 and they're dropping off 30 seconds or 30 seconds, some people's heads go, they go, absolutely.
00:39:37
Speaker
I can't oh god I'm slowing down that means I'm gonna obliterate and this that I'm gonna hit the wall um so I put a chart together that basically they can see what their pace should be they then understand the markers of where they should roughly be at three miles six miles nine miles all the way through okay some people are greater remembering them some people write them all across the round but they've got
00:39:59
Speaker
areas that they know if they've gone too fast at the start they can slow it down okay and if anyone wants to contact me i'm happy to send this chart out this is just a little bit of a tool for people to do i've done this with a there's a reflection tool that i've got for the marathon as well and that people get to reflect on their training so they're confident ahead of it
00:40:21
Speaker
This chart also has hydration on it. It's also got nutrition on it, so when they're going to be taking the gels, it's also got a column for the mantra that they're going to have at a particular start of the race. It could be the fact of run relaxed. It could be start to work, start to work even more, don't hit the wall.
00:40:45
Speaker
But everything is all in one place and they've gone through in the mindset that they can refer back to it and they're super super confident what's coming back from my runners are that actually. There's a lot to do before the race the people aren't aware of.
00:40:59
Speaker
to make sure that they have a successful enjoyable day and to get that good for age place, that Boston qualifier to run around under four hours in a happy way. So they're super, super confident. I think that's really important. So first thing, the biggest thing for me is planning.
00:41:18
Speaker
The second thing is reflecting on their training. Yeah. So that actually they can understand you've probably had 10 weeks, 12 weeks, 16 weeks of purposeful training towards that goal. Having a mini blip or a week where you've got had a cold or whatever, you might have gone skiing or I don't know. That doesn't affect it in the long run. Look at over time what you've done to achieve that goal. And that's really, really critical. And then
00:41:47
Speaker
The marathon is always going to have ups and downs. You're never going to have a training block or a race day where everything's going to go normal. So don't let it ruin the whole experience just because, and I said this to someone else and someone got really, really angry with me on a Zoom call because I said, I had a target of sub 2 at 230 and I did 2 hours 30 and 40 seconds. And I honestly, I was a bit like, oh my God, I can't believe I've not done it.
00:42:17
Speaker
But then when you actually look at the training block and the journey, you should be really proud of everything that you've achieved. So there's loads of things in terms of the marathon that you can get wrong, that you can get right. But the most important thing is then that you change it for next time. Yeah. And that's an honest conversation with your coach to sort of say, right, I felt great, but I still feel that we could go a little bit more.
Future Goals and Encouragement for Masters Runners
00:42:41
Speaker
What can we do? Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant.
00:42:43
Speaker
And what about master runners or veteran runners? Is it still possible to PB as you get older? We're not husbands. This is not the case of people not having drive as soon as they go vet 35 or vet 4. Yeah, that's a real bug bear.
00:43:07
Speaker
I mean, I've been doing relays this year against people half my age and it's like that has to be the one thing that Masters athletes or people join the sport now understand.
00:43:20
Speaker
We can still PB. We can still push the boundaries of running a little bit faster. It doesn't have to all be that slow. Actually, speed work will make you feel a little bit weird, but getting into that uncomfortable place is something over a long period of time will actually benefit you.
00:43:43
Speaker
I love the opportunities as a master, especially when you're competitive with others. That competition, that competitive element never dies. And I think if you're a competitive person, whether you've come 10th in your age group or 35th in your age group, that's something to improve on next time. Yeah, no, that's brilliant. So what's next for you then, James? What have you got planned? Are you still as busy as ever? Yeah, I mean, for me,
00:44:10
Speaker
I want to improve because I want my kids to see me improve. I want my kids to know that dad was a bit of a runner. Also, my boys have just started athletics at Warrington, which is incredible that they can do a little bit. That's why I've been doing other events that they're at as well that I haven't done for years. I'd love to go back to track.
00:44:31
Speaker
whether i do that this year or next year i don't know it's all dependent on a lot of things um i'd love to obviously vet 45 i'd like to improve all of my pbs 5k 10k half marathon marathon i'd hopefully do that if i can get some decent training in um coaching wise just continue with what i'm doing because of
00:44:52
Speaker
I've pushed the boundaries in terms of doing zooms for other people to support them that way i've been doing master classes in terms of coaching with other clubs and mentioned other coaches as well but more importantly the feedback that i get from athletes.
00:45:09
Speaker
who have never been coached before or never been taught how to run. I think the feedback is just amazing. So if you have been involved with any coaching with me, I appreciate that feedback because it's really important for me going forward as well. So like I say, if anyone does want to get in touch, it is run.coach.teach at Gmail or on Instagram run.coach.teach.
00:45:35
Speaker
Fantastic, yes. So keep tagging us in. We like seeing you. Yeah, we'll do. Yeah. So thank you so much for joining us. It's been a fascinating conversation. No, thank you. And thanks very much for your time, everyone. Yeah, thank you. I hope everybody out there has enjoyed listening to today's episode.