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00:00:01
Renee McGregor
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Renee is a sports dietician specialising in REDs, the female athlete, hormonal health, and athlete performance. Her latest book, Fuel for Thought, is a practical guide to how and what to eat for endurance athletes. In this episode, we discuss behaviours around food, and Renee gives us some really practical advice around fuelling, recovery, carb-loading and supplementation.
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Transcript
Introduction to Rini McGregor and Her Work
00:00:01
UKRunChat
Welcome to this episode of the UK Run Chat podcast. Today we have a guest who is, she's an expert. she might and She might disagree that she's an expert in sports nutrition, but we've invited her on um to chat about running hormones and how to have a healthy, happy body. And we'll be chatting about her latest book, Fuel for Thought. It's Rini
Rini's Journey into Nutrition and Medicine
00:00:27
UKRunChat
McGregor.
00:00:27
UKRunChat
Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast, Rini. Would you like to give us a much better introduction? and I'm sure I can. I've just given you there.
00:00:34
Renee McGregor
Oh, no, you've done a great job. um Yeah, I'm Renie McGregor. I am a sports dietitian. I guess I think my official proper title is probably sports and exercise medicine dietitian because it's not just kind of sports and performance nutrition that I that I work in. I also do quite a lot of work in understanding how the body works, ensuring that hormones are working properly and actually how that's all linked into our performance. I'm also an author, as you've said, and I also got running.
Transition from NHS to Sports Nutrition
00:01:07
Renee McGregor
So um yeah, I mean, I think that's, I mean, there's, there's lots I could say, but I think that's enough to be fair.
00:01:14
UKRunChat
Yeah, i mean, why don't you start by telling us kind of how how you got into the field of kind of nutrition and kind of medicine ah that area.
00:01:22
Renee McGregor
Yes. So I, weirdly, I never wanted to do medicine. And that was what was really interesting is I, it was kind of, there was an expectation, you know, I think anybody who's listening, who comes from maybe an Indian family background will know that there tends to be an expectation in a certain vocation.
00:01:42
Renee McGregor
And I think there was this expectation that i would become a doctor because that's what everyone did. And I was very anti becoming a doctor and not because there's anything wrong with it. I just didn't want to do it basically. Um, and, but I was really, really interested in the human body and how it works.
00:02:01
Renee McGregor
And we did like a really small introduction to I suppose, biochemistry at a level in biology, in terms of understanding what goes on at a cellular level.
00:02:13
Renee McGregor
And I found that really, really interesting. So actually my, my initial degree was in, um, human and nutrition biochemistry, which, um, I absolutely loved. I found it really, really interesting. um And on the back of that, I then, i guess you get to know what other jobs and careers become open to you. And so on the back of that, I then went into dietetics. So I did a further degree to become a registered dietitian. And, you know, this was back in 1999. So, um at that point, you generally got a dietetic degree and you moved into the NHS and just like a junior doctor, you worked your way up. So you do
00:02:57
Renee McGregor
several years as what used to be called a basic grade dietitian it's now like a band five dietitian and you would rotate in different specialities and you'd often have quite a big caseload because the the main sort of focus was to expose yourself to as many different areas of clinical nutrition as possible so you know like An average week would include outpatient clinics. It would include covering 10 wards, which would sort of vary from geriatrics to hospitalization.
00:03:33
Renee McGregor
ah to gastro, to to kind of max facts, to oncology. So you were constantly thrown, you know, you were constantly on your feet and you were always, and it was really good. It's like a really, really good base in understanding the human body, but also understanding human behavior and also realizing that what you learn in theory is definitely not how humans are in practice. And
Early Career and Running Journey
00:03:56
Renee McGregor
so I think that was a really big learning curve for me.
00:03:59
Renee McGregor
um and I guess I got to... I spent like nine, 10 years into working in the and NHS and I'd kind of moved up and I'd sort specialised in paediatrics.
00:04:11
Renee McGregor
I was working across a variety of specialties within paediatrics, but my main focus, I guess, was, um, adolescent eating disorders, um, which was really, really tough going.
00:04:23
Renee McGregor
Um, and I think, so you know, still is a very tough going area to work in, but, um,
00:04:23
UKRunChat
Yeah. je
00:04:32
Renee McGregor
Yeah, it's an interesting space. Like, I think there's so much more we can do with that group of individuals, particularly working in the NHS. But I feel like there's a lot of barriers that stop the practice from being what the individual needs. It's still, it's still even today, because I get lots of people who've, who've struggled with eating in the past and and had like input from services that And they come to our clinic, usually more kind of sport related now, but they come to our clinic, but they've still got that, the hangover from their eating issue. And, um you know, often when you talk to them, they don't really know why they maintain that behavior. And and I feel like it's a fundamental flaw in helping somebody is you've got to get them to appreciate what their behavior is about. So I felt quite... um
00:05:26
Renee McGregor
quilt quite I felt quite stuck, I guess, in the NHS and I realised it probably wasn't the right place for me to be able to practise in the way that I like to practise.
00:05:29
UKRunChat
Thank you.
00:05:34
Renee McGregor
And I am quite a free spirit and that's not to say that I'm not evidence based, but I ah really do observe. I observe and I listen. um i love reading. i like I said, i love understanding human behavior. And I think that was probably central to my practice.
00:05:50
Renee McGregor
And so I decided to lead the NHS at this point. And um I've always been a very keen sports person.
00:06:01
Renee McGregor
Like I've always enjoyed sport. I've always been pretty good at sport. At school, I was, you know, in in most of the teams and, and I always found freedom in sport. You know, it was the one thing that I knew i was, I was probably good at, but also just helped me feel bit grounded in who I was. And so, um it, it being something on my mind that I wanted to maybe move into sports nutrition,
00:06:28
Renee McGregor
And you you basically had to do a further degree to do that. So being a dietitian was not enough. Like you needed to have a further qualification. So at this point I decided to to do that.
00:06:41
Renee McGregor
And so I did a further qualification. um And at the same time also did my personal trainer qualification. So it meant I could kind of do do some PT work while I was also studying, um which kept a little bit of money coming in.
00:06:56
Renee McGregor
um And then once I was fully qualified, I was able to kind of apply for jobs. And so I guess that's where it sort of all started. And, and I ended up um working up at Bath Uni with the um GB rhythmic gymnastics team that went to London, gym London 2012 as a bit of a wild card.
00:07:17
Renee McGregor
and And that was a brilliant experience because that was fundamentally utilizing both my clinical knowledge from a kind of eating disorder world and my sports knowledge. And I think it was, ah it was really i really challenging environment to work in, but one that I just have so fond memories from because it was, it was so good to consolidate those two areas of learning.
00:07:43
Renee McGregor
and and be able to put it into practice. And I guess that was kind of what opened the door then to, to more and more and more work over the last, well, where are we now? It's 2025. So over the last 15 years, I guess.
00:07:52
UKRunChat
Yeah, wow.
00:07:54
Renee McGregor
So, and so yeah, that's kind of how I got into sports nutrition specifically.
00:07:54
UKRunChat
thank
00:08:00
UKRunChat
yeah no that's really exciting so where did the running um side come from for you then have you you said you've always been into sports when did you get really into running because you do kind of long long endurance events don't you
00:08:12
Renee McGregor
I do. Yeah, I guess did a little bit of running when I was a ah junior dietitian, just because it was, there was a friend who lived locally, and we would just meet up once or twice a week. But it was really chilled. It wasn't, it was more just to keep fit.
00:08:30
Renee McGregor
You know, it wasn't like, I wasn't entering any races. I wasn't really interested in that. So I probably did that for about a year, like nothing major. um It was, I think that' it I gave up my gym membership because I couldn't afford it on the on the dietetic salary.
00:08:43
Renee McGregor
And so I was like, well, I need to stay fit. And running was a quick, a cheap way of staying fit, basically. um ah then didn't really do any running for quite a long time until I had my second daughter. And when she was 11 months old, she...
00:09:02
Renee McGregor
She had this tendency to get up really early, like most babies, feed at five, but then she'd just go back to sleep. But I would be like wide awake. And i was like, okay, well, I'm wide awake. I've got a window where I can actually do something for myself um because both girls would sleep until about seven.
00:09:20
Renee McGregor
So I was like, okay, I'm going to, going to do something. And so i started just going for a little job. We used to, we lived on a boat at the time, um, on the, um, on the river Avon in, in Bath.
00:09:28
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:32
Renee McGregor
And so was really easy. I literally could put trainers on and jog up the towpath, turn around and come back again.
00:09:38
UKRunChat
yeah
00:09:40
Renee McGregor
So it started off with just a 10 minute run to the first bridge and then turning back. And I guess over that first six months, I just built it up really slowly. And some days, some weeks I didn't go at all because i'll see if you you know if if my daughters were awake and they needed me, then that was also my priority. but But it was really nice to be able to have this opportunity for myself. And and also we'd moved to Bath when my older daughter was a year old. So i didn't know many people at all. Like I was quite lonely and running just gave me this kind of,
00:10:16
Renee McGregor
opportunity to I don't know just just feel connected I suppose with you know with the surrounding I was in and and I guess it's also how I ended up eventually it's how I ended up making friends in Bath so um so yeah I started running then and within the first year I then entered like a 10k and then um and you know you know it goes from there basically you do a 10k then you do a half marathon then you do a marathon and then it you know it kind of
00:10:41
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:10:46
UKRunChat
Snowballs, isn't it?
00:10:46
Renee McGregor
it is still so but it was slow like I wouldn't say that i you know I was like I know a lot of people have a tendency to do park run and then decide they're going to do 100 miles I'm not that kind of person like it I would say it was you know it probably over five years before I decided to do a marathon you know it wasn't like I did loads of half marathons before um
00:11:03
UKRunChat
yeah
00:11:12
Renee McGregor
And that was a really nice goal when you've got young children. It was just a really, it was achievable. And it was quite nice to watch the time just go down.
00:11:17
UKRunChat
yeah
00:11:20
Renee McGregor
And, but without, without killing myself, you know, it was, I honestly, at that stage, I wouldn't say I was running. I was running like three times a week. That was it. That's all I could fit in.
00:11:31
Renee McGregor
You know, I was a mom, I was working part time. it it was, and it was enough. And then i guess as they got older and my work kind of changed and my, my goals changed that's when I suppose my running also changed and I started working with coaches and you know like it I think it's it's definitely been a build over time it's not been this kind of instant right that's where I started type thing
00:11:59
UKRunChat
Yeah, and and now and now, of course, you you prefer those longer distance events, don't Because you're up in the lakes now, is that right? Yeah.
00:12:05
Renee McGregor
that's right yeah I live up in um in Kendall and um Yeah, I mean, it's funny, isn't it? I think I'm associated with those longer runs because I so i do i do them and and I ah generally seem to do well in them.
00:12:18
Renee McGregor
But then, you know, in the last year, and well, i I'd say last few years, I've done all sorts. You know, I i did the um Forest of Dean half in 2022, which was the short trail championships.
00:12:24
UKRunChat
yeah
00:12:31
Renee McGregor
And I came first in my category. So I was British Trail running champion for a year and in my category, which was kind of cool. um i last year at the end of last year I did two 10ks like local 10ks just because i was like they were off-road and um my partner he does gents to do sort of shorter races and and we never really get to do much together because I tend to do these longer races and he does shorter races so we're like let's I said okay I'll I'll just enter them and and you know I really enjoyed them I enjoyed the fact that I could
00:12:46
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:13:04
UKRunChat
yeah
00:13:06
Renee McGregor
get it done every morning and I was home by lunchtime which was quite nice um but I do i do I do do longer distance I mean last year I did the Lakeland 50 because it's obviously a local race to here and um I loved it I really really it's just such a beautiful course and it's a very friendly vibe
00:13:18
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:13:28
Renee McGregor
um So I'm going back this year and I don't, I very rarely do the same race twice. So it's quite unusual for me to go back and do a race twice, but I really enjoy the atmosphere. And I sort of feel like now I've been living up here even longer.
00:13:44
Renee McGregor
You feel even more kind of connected to the community. And so, yeah, I'm looking forward to, to, to being on the start line again in July. um But yeah, I'll be honest, Michelle, I'm happy to do anything.
00:13:57
Renee McGregor
You know, I'm not,
00:13:57
UKRunChat
yeah
00:13:59
Renee McGregor
I probably wouldn't do a 5k. I think that's probably where it's a bit too hard for me to, um, and and like, I'm tempted to do a bit more fell running just because I have started to become more confident, like throwing myself down the side of a mountain because you do when you you live up here.
00:14:01
UKRunChat
No.
00:14:12
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:14:15
Renee McGregor
Um, but I just need to get a bit better at navigation and then I might do a fell run because you know, you have to know it, don't you?
00:14:15
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:14:22
Renee McGregor
have to know the route.
00:14:22
UKRunChat
You too.
00:14:23
Renee McGregor
You can't,
00:14:23
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:14:24
Renee McGregor
You can't rely on following somebody else cause they might get it wrong as well.
00:14:28
UKRunChat
Yeah, you've got you've got to be confident picking that best line downhill as well, haven't you, I guess?
00:14:28
Renee McGregor
So, actually yeah
00:14:33
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:14:33
Renee McGregor
exactly. So, so yeah, I think I'm, I'm kind of open. I think my relationship with running has changed so much in the 20 years that I've, I've been running.
00:14:41
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:14:42
Renee McGregor
Um, I'm probably the most comfortable with it I've ever been in the sense of, I don't run, i don't run for worth. I don't run, m really to even achieve I run because I just love the feeling like, you know, yesterday I was out with a really good friend, um, who's an amazing runner and, um, definitely deserves a bit of a shout out because she's done some incredible, um, she's had some incredible achievements under her belt, but she's incredibly modest. So I was out with Sam Lasseur and we were just recceeing something that she's hoping to do,
00:15:18
Renee McGregor
um in the near future. And I won't say what, just so that, you know, keep wraps.
00:15:22
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:15:23
Renee McGregor
But it was just so much fun. We were out for five hours and it was like amazing. We put the world to rights. We're in this beautiful space.
00:15:34
Renee McGregor
It was a gorgeous day. Like it was just, i think for me now running is so much more about my community and my connection with others. It's a real opportunity for me to feel like me.
00:15:48
UKRunChat
yeah
00:15:48
Renee McGregor
you know, like, I think a lot of my day is having to be this very professional individual who's often holding a lot of quite difficult information about people. And it can feel quite heavy at times. And you, you get to the weekend, and it's just quite nice to, to be spend long, big days in the hills, outside with people that you love, and you share a lot with and and just feel like a bit of a free spirit, I guess, goes back to that free spirit.
00:16:19
Renee McGregor
So
Rini's Book: Fuel for Thought
00:16:20
UKRunChat
Yeah, running is freedom. Yeah, i love that.
00:16:20
Renee McGregor
and yeah, so it's very different.
00:16:24
Renee McGregor
So I think that's it. Like I'm much more about running for adventures now than I am running for, um, for specific kind of outcomes, should we say?
00:16:33
UKRunChat
Yeah. So do you often run with friends then or are you usually on your own?
00:16:38
Renee McGregor
I do a bit of everything. Like I said, I'm very lucky my partner runs.
00:16:40
UKRunChat
yeah
00:16:42
Renee McGregor
So we will always go for at least one run a week together, which is a really nice time for us to catch up with each other and and just check in. And, you know, um that's really nice.
00:16:53
Renee McGregor
I run with my dog. um I've got two dogs, but my older one a bit too old to run with now. So I run with a little one who's very funny when we go running.
00:17:00
UKRunChat
yeah
00:17:02
Renee McGregor
But yeah, it's great fun. It's bit more like a fartlek session when I'm running with him, but it's quite good.
00:17:06
UKRunChat
Yeah, what what kind of dog?
00:17:08
Renee McGregor
So I've got a Cockapoo, who's the younger one, and I've got a Britney Spaniel.
00:17:10
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:17:12
Renee McGregor
And I used to do a lot of my marathon training with my Britney Spaniel, but he's he's nearly 13.
00:17:15
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:17:17
Renee McGregor
And so he's he's not running anymore.
00:17:19
UKRunChat
oh
00:17:20
Renee McGregor
He still goes up on the fells. that We still do like big hikes with him, but we just won't run with him anymore.
00:17:24
UKRunChat
yeah
00:17:26
Renee McGregor
so And yeah, and then I run with friends. But I also do like to have at least one or two runs a week on my own, just because... It's nice, like when I run, I don't generally have my phone near me, you know, it's an opportunity to kind of just completely switch off and not, not have to think about answering emails or answering WhatsApp messages or, you know, all those things that seem to distract us.
00:17:48
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:17:50
Renee McGregor
So it's, it's a nice, it's ah it's a, it's really nice time to be mindful.
00:17:54
UKRunChat
Yeah, absolutely.
00:17:54
Renee McGregor
I enjoy. so yeah.
00:17:56
UKRunChat
Yeah. No, that's fab. I think you and me have pretty similar views I'm running, actually, from hearing you talk about it.
00:18:02
Renee McGregor
yes
00:18:03
UKRunChat
ah so So tell us about your latest book, Fuel for Thought. and I read it when it came out and I... i've I've been recommending it to everybody. Honestly, I think it's brilliant.
00:18:12
Renee McGregor
you <unk>
00:18:14
UKRunChat
It kind of really simplifies what nutrition is, really. Because I think on um social media, there's such a lot of people trying to sell us something, isn't there?
00:18:24
UKRunChat
Or trying to, you know, get views about the latest trend or the latest fad in eating. And your book just really breaks it down and just makes it seem so simple. but so what what prompted you to write it?
00:18:38
Renee McGregor
So it it's a book that I think has been in my head for quite some time. um So I've written quite a few books. I think people often just know me for the last two.
00:18:50
Renee McGregor
So I did write More Fuel You two years ago and obviously Fuel for Thought this year.
00:18:51
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:18:56
Renee McGregor
and But before that, I'd written ah book um called Orthorexia, How Healthy Eating Goes Bad.
00:19:03
UKRunChat
yeah
00:19:05
Renee McGregor
um which was more about kind of that whole clean eating movement and how it became really problematic. um And what I, and I guess that's, that book is what propelled me into, I suppose, into having a bit more of a public um profile.
00:19:22
UKRunChat
you.
00:19:23
Renee McGregor
And that's when I started on Instagram is when I had my first, like my first or social media um posts and and and I didn't have a clue what I was doing and it was really interesting I remember I'd been on I was on a podcast it was actually ah she's now a really good friend but um I was on Kimberly Wilson's podcast and we were talking about orthorexia and and obviously what it was about and everything and um and that's when I was like oh I i need to put this on platform so people know and and hence I moved into this world of Instagram and I'll be honest I was
00:19:59
Renee McGregor
completely and utterly thrown by it because I, I guess I'd been, maybe I'd been living in this little bubble of naivety that, you know, and I just, I liked my life where I didn't know all these people existed, if I'm honest.
00:20:13
UKRunChat
Bye.
00:20:14
Renee McGregor
And suddenly I was like, my God, who are all these people who were saying all this stuff? about nutrition without any qualifications. I think that was what was so upsetting. i was like, where's the where's the filter? Like, where's the regulation? And there wasn't any. And I was like, I honestly, remember the first couple of few months on it, I was like,
00:20:36
Renee McGregor
just angry all the time because every day every time I looked at something i was like but why is she saying that she's got no qualification in in doing that and so I guess I guess that made me realize that there there was no one advocating for good sensible advice there's a lot of us now on Instagram but i think you know we're talking back in 2017 there just wasn't and I just felt like I started just posting Nothing in my eyes, nothing special. I've always just been very authentic and true to myself and also true to the profession of nutrition because that's my job.
00:21:13
Renee McGregor
And, um, I started getting this kind of traction and people started contacting me saying, my God, this is really helpful. um And it just, I suppose it grew. And also my my following has grown in the same way, just, you know, and and I think like one of the things I love about my followers is they're incredibly loyal, but I think they're incredibly loyal because, because I'm just always authentic.
00:21:35
Renee McGregor
You know, I see it as it is and I'm very honest and I'm not clean and shiny and
00:21:35
UKRunChat
yeah
00:21:40
Renee McGregor
and you know kind of like trying to sell a lifestyle and I think that's a real difference between say me and some of the other so-called professionals in nutrition on Instagram is that a lot of them are trying to sell a lifestyle whereas I'm actually trying to sell well I'm not trying to sell anything I think that's the point I'm trying to give you appropriate information that means you can you can, you know, inform yourself and hopefully make the right choice for you. And I think this is a really important point, which obviously I kind of home in on in the book so much is that nothing is going to be appropriate for everybody, right?
00:22:21
Renee McGregor
Whether that's a type of coaching, a type of and nutrition approach, public health messaging, like nothing is going to be appropriate for everything, for everybody.
00:22:34
Renee McGregor
And also often the messaging is also kind of it's targeting a particular audience, but it's also looking at it from one dimension. It's not looking at this kind of bigger picture.
00:22:48
Renee McGregor
So for me, when you're trying to think about, well, what should I do from a nutrition point of view? What should i do from a training point of view? You have to look at you and your life, your body and your preferences.
00:23:03
Renee McGregor
You know, like that's the thing. Like nobody seems to think about
00:23:04
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:08
Renee McGregor
well, what do I want to eat? It's like, I just need to get it right. And it's like, well, you know, so I guess going back to your original question, more fuel for thought was a book I wanted to write because, ah you know, in clinic, I hear so much and I see so many people who get confused and, and and follow advice that's just not suitable for them.
00:23:11
UKRunChat
yeah
00:23:30
Renee McGregor
Whether that is like running advice, whether that's
00:23:32
UKRunChat
yeah
00:23:33
Renee McGregor
You know, choosing a race advice or whether that is kind of what to eat. And like you said, there's a lot of products on the on the market. There's a lot of people making a lot of money, whether that's money from running, money from menopause, money from... money from m you know, supplements, there's a lot of people trying to make money out of you and selling you this kind of false gold.
00:23:57
Renee McGregor
And I guess I just wanted to put that to right. I wanted people to have a book that was like a like an opportunity for them to get the other side of the argument and then they could make the right decision for them. I wanted a book that would be supportive, if specifically if you're a relatively new runner, that you don't have to just kind of be a tick box.
Personal History with Eating Disorders
00:24:22
Renee McGregor
and go, right, I've done this race, now going to do this race, now going to do this race. It's actually about understanding what it takes for your body to adapt and progress and know, you know, actually, if it takes you five years from five k to marathon, that's absolutely fine and actually really legitimate and probably means you're going to be less injured in the long run. I wanted to call out...
00:24:46
Renee McGregor
you know, brands and apps and trends that I know are really harmful because again, every day in my clinic, I see the negative consequences of these products.
00:24:57
UKRunChat
yeah
00:24:59
Renee McGregor
And so that was where this was born, you know, so Fuel to Thought was very much going to be the companion for people who
00:25:02
UKRunChat
yeah
00:25:09
Renee McGregor
who just wanted to have a better relationship with food and exercise, full stop.
00:25:15
UKRunChat
yeah
00:25:15
Renee McGregor
That was what the book was about. It was about, yeah, just enjoying it, realizing that that it's not about the body beautiful. It's not about attaining worth. It's about...
00:25:26
Renee McGregor
just the pure joy of being able to move your body in a certain way and understand what your body needs to be able to do that. So that was where the the book kind of was born from. And then one of the big pieces of feedback we'd had from mu more Fuel You was...
00:25:45
Renee McGregor
Please, can you write a book that's a little bit more practical?
00:25:48
UKRunChat
yeah
00:25:48
Renee McGregor
So that was that was kind of a no brainer to kind of add recipes and tips. and And also like bearing in mind, you know I've been a sports dietitian. I've been really, really um fortunate to to work in kind of environments, you know, kind of big major championships to.
00:26:07
Renee McGregor
crazy events across, you know, weird, wonderful landscapes where I've learned, you know, what it, what you need to do if you're at altitude or, or some little, little tips that can help when, um, you're, you know, you're doing a 24 hour race or whatever.
00:26:23
Renee McGregor
And so i wanted to kind of share those, because these are not tips you're going to get from reading a ah journal, or you're going to even get from reading a sports nutrition textbook because they don't exist.
00:26:23
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:26:33
Renee McGregor
and that format. These are things I've learned working in the field. And so we wanted, I wanted to share that. And then the final piece was, again, another bit of feedback that we we got was, please, can you write more about your running in it and your story? And actually, that was the hardest bit of the whole book was like, I remember, I remember like writing, it was like last summer,
00:26:58
Renee McGregor
And I had spent ages on this chapter about myself. And I remember picking up the phone to my editor going, is this really necessary? Because it's so boring. Like, and she, she just, she just, she did she just laughed at me like you did. And I was like, it's so boring. It's so tedious, like writing about myself.
00:27:21
Renee McGregor
And she goes, but that's what the people want. And I was like, okay, fair enough. But actually, funnily enough, the feedback we've had from, from Fuel for Thought has been people really love that bit. They love the fact that I'm you know, kind of being this honest human that I have not always got it right.
00:27:39
Renee McGregor
And I've learned a lot and I'm still learning, you know, I still make mistakes.
00:27:42
UKRunChat
yeah I can imagine I mean we we live within ourselves all the time so I yeah I can see why you would feel that that wouldn't be interesting but I I enjoyed that bit because you you talk a lot about your journey with kind of eating and you know how you were kind of limiting your own food intake at one point weren't you and I think a lot I mean that's what I wanted to talk about a little bit more in this episode is that
00:27:43
Renee McGregor
And so I think it was a, you know, it was a really good thing to put in, but it was definitely the hardest bit to write in the whole book.
00:28:06
Renee McGregor
yeah
00:28:12
UKRunChat
A lot of runners do try to lose weight at the same time as training for big events. So I wanted to try and delve into that a little bit if we can. What what are your thoughts there?
00:28:23
Renee McGregor
Yeah, I mean, I think it's for the worst thing you can possibly do. And I say that, you know, with with my professional hat on. I think my own journey was...
00:28:34
Renee McGregor
slightly different and I and I guess this is probably it's probably true for many many people listening to this is that you know I had an eating disorder when I was a teenager and you know i mean eating disorders are never really about food they' they're more about kind of a method of coping and for me
00:28:46
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:28:59
Renee McGregor
My childhood was very, very complicated. You know, I had been a victim of sexual abuse and I had a lot of, there'd been a lot of racism. And so for a very young age, I felt out of sorts in myself.
00:29:17
Renee McGregor
You know, I always thought there was something wrong with me. I always, I felt quite ashamed. Obviously once after the abuse, I felt very ashamed of my body. I felt very uncomfortable in my body.
00:29:29
Renee McGregor
And so, um ah you know, for me, not this was none of this conscious, by the way, but for me, the the eating disorder was ah method, I guess, of creating a little bit of a boundary around myself so that nobody could hurt me.
00:29:46
Renee McGregor
So it was my way of feeling as small as I could possibly be, taking up as little space and being as insignificant as the world had made me feel.
00:29:56
UKRunChat
yeah
00:29:56
Renee McGregor
it was Like I said, it was very, very complicated scenario. And it took me a long time to overcome my eating disorder. And what I mean by that is I physically recovered quite quickly, because I think most people actually can physically recover relatively quickly.
00:30:09
UKRunChat
yeah
00:30:13
Renee McGregor
But the the psychology took a long time. You know, it took a long time of understanding what my eating disorder had been about and why I needed those behaviours, because it had generally been a bit of a...
00:30:27
Renee McGregor
you know, it felt like a safety net. It wasn't, but it had felt like that. And so, so like it took me a long time to unpick and understand a lot of that.
00:30:38
Renee McGregor
And then, I suppose when I started running, what was really interesting for me was when I first started running, it was fine. Like it was just, I didn't really think about it. It mainly once I sort of joined my first running club and,
00:30:54
Renee McGregor
and I guess I, you know, i was, I was one of the, the faster runners in, in the, in the club. I wouldn't say i was like up there with the, the, the top lot, but I was definitely in the sort top third of runners in the club and I always got decent results.
00:31:11
UKRunChat
is
00:31:12
Renee McGregor
And I guess with that came pressure and expectation and, you know, people wanting you to to achieve, in like races and stuff. So there was a lot of like pressure to kind of enter lots of races and then be part of a team. And I'd always be part of like a winning team. I might've been the like the third counter or the fourth counter, but I'd always been, you know, so I guess that pressure really took hold. And I suppose it weirdly running came, at said as as I said earlier, as a time where I was a new mom and I guess I'd lost a little bit of myself and, know,
00:31:52
Renee McGregor
as you know, as you've already just heard, my self-confidence and my self-worth have never been particularly good. And they definitely weren't, but running kind of gave me this, this sense of confidence.
00:32:05
Renee McGregor
And I guess, like I said, i I met lots of people and I felt like wanted and I felt accepted for the first time ever.
00:32:07
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:12
Renee McGregor
And so i got caught up in you know, in that kind of pressure to perform, i suppose, um and would would follow the same mistakes that I now help other people with in believing that, you know,
00:32:32
Renee McGregor
I didn't need to eat as much as I thought I needed to. it was never about being lighter. I've always, you know, I've never, I'm not a big person.
00:32:36
UKRunChat
yeah
00:32:38
Renee McGregor
It was never about changing my body. It was never about that. It was always just, I suppose, just not really realizing that I needed ah lot of fuel to do what I needed to do.
00:32:52
Renee McGregor
um and And so, yeah, my my relationship... with food and running was, was quite complicated. And that as you know, as, ah as kind of goes through in the book, it didn't end in a very positive way. Like there was a real negative consequence of because of that.
00:33:09
Renee McGregor
And, and that's when I learned the hard way. And I guess that's partly why I or did want to share my story because I don't want people to have to experience what I've experienced. Now, obviously i have come back from that and,
00:33:24
Renee McGregor
I still have relatively decent performances, but you you know there's always there's always that thought, well, if I hadn't have done that, if i'd been if I'd had the attitude I have now, what would I have been able to achieve?
00:33:37
Renee McGregor
And and I guess that's kind of the the kind of the warning, isn't it?
Rebuilding Fitness and Body Image
00:33:40
Renee McGregor
Is that your body and your weight really has very little to do with how good a runner you are.
00:33:40
UKRunChat
yeah
00:33:48
Renee McGregor
And I think trying to... cut back on nutrition while you're training for a marathon or more, or, you know, it it's just going to leave you fatigued.
00:33:59
Renee McGregor
It's going to leave you depleted and it's going to leave you more open to injury and not achieving where you want to achieve.
00:34:05
UKRunChat
yeah
00:34:07
Renee McGregor
i think the biggest mistake that people make is not appreciating that it's not just the energy you need to run. It's all the energy you need to transfer that run into progression right so if you think about coaching and training coaches will work on a principle of that they're trying to send signals to your body so when you're doing your tempo or when you're doing your hills or or whatever you're doing that's sending a signal to your muscles and to your neurological pathways
00:34:42
Renee McGregor
And so in order to benefit from that, if you really want to get faster, you really want to get stronger, you have to feed that.
00:34:49
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:34:49
Renee McGregor
Because obviously when we run, we break everything down and then we we re we we you know we we regroup and we we rebuild. And it's when we rebuild, it's in that rebuilding phase that the signals then get transferred to action, which I think people don't appreciate.
00:35:06
UKRunChat
yeah
00:35:07
Renee McGregor
So this is why i get a bit frustrated with watches and stuff because people go, well, I, but I eat what my watch tells me to. And it's like, well, you know, firstly, watches are really, really highly inaccurate. I remember I did an experiment a few years ago where I wore three different types of watches on my wrist on the same run.
00:35:28
Renee McGregor
And I did it for a whole week and I got completely different readings every single day on all three watches.
00:35:34
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:36
Renee McGregor
And, So it just comes to show that you just, you can't use that as a, as a gauge, but, but the thing is, it's not just the energy you need to do the run. It's the energy you need for all the other work that needs to happen around it.
00:35:49
Renee McGregor
And particularly that, what we call that cellular transcription that allows you to improve.
00:35:52
UKRunChat
you
00:35:54
Renee McGregor
And so this is where it becomes problematic. And I'm very much on the, you know, i work on the basis that if you, if you eat well, and you choose the right choices around your running, and you are able to do the running generally quite consistently, give or take, because you know we all have days where it falls apart because we're human, then actually your body ends up where it needs to end up for you.
00:36:20
Renee McGregor
And that's the place it's going to work the best for you. And and i and I so can see that in my own self. Like even now when I'm training, Like last year, training for Lakeland 50. So the previous year I'd been to Nepal.
00:36:35
Renee McGregor
So in 2023, I'd been to Nepal to do a race in April, which was amazing. And I came back and I was really poorly, like, really, really ill for like eight months.
00:36:45
UKRunChat
yeah
00:36:46
Renee McGregor
And um I couldn't run really for eight months. Like i I ran a bit and then every time I ran, I got sick again. So I it basically, so i I'd been really fit going into Nepal and then I basically lost so much fitness.
00:37:00
Renee McGregor
So then in January of 2024, thinking about Lakeland 50 in the July, i was basically, it felt like I was starting pretty much from back at the beginning.
00:37:08
UKRunChat
yeah
00:37:10
Renee McGregor
And I just remember thinking, oh, it's a long, I've got a long way to go in terms of getting fit again.
00:37:15
UKRunChat
yeah
00:37:16
Renee McGregor
um and I felt, I guess I just felt a little bit out of shape. I wasn't, but I felt a little bit out of shape compared to but life happens and and you just get on with it.
00:37:25
UKRunChat
You
00:37:27
Renee McGregor
But it was interesting then watching how my body changed in that six months period without really changing anything else In fact, probably eating more because I was training more. um And I just got,
00:37:42
Renee McGregor
stronger and stronger and you know you you don't go into Lakeland 50 without doing the training and the hard work like you can do it'll hurt it will hurt but you can do and you know like again when I when I went in Damien and I had we we always kind of so Damien Hall is my coach and we always have like long conversations about
00:37:52
UKRunChat
certainly shouldn't do. Yeah.
00:38:07
Renee McGregor
well, what's the goal here? And sometimes it is a time goal. Sometimes it's just let's just practice or or whatever. And, and be late link 50 was my A race. So it was like, well, he was like, well, I'm, I think anywhere between 12 and 14 hours would be great. And that is a pretty decent sort of outcome for late and 50.
00:38:25
Renee McGregor
So yeah, getting, getting I got 12 hours, 16. So I was in really pleased. Um,
00:38:30
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:38:31
Renee McGregor
still like kind of placed me in the top 10% of finishers. And I was really pleased because if I thought back a year or late before, there's no way i would have thought that that was possible.
00:38:42
Renee McGregor
So I think it just like, if I've really learned that even on those days, the odd days where I ah look at my, you know, older 40 year old body now, like old, like late forties body, should I say?
00:38:57
Renee McGregor
and I think, oh but then I think, do you know what? it can still do amazing things and it can still do hard stuff.
00:39:02
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:39:03
Renee McGregor
And it's what gets me up those mountains. And actually that's the bit that's important. It doesn't really matter whether I have a six pack or not.
00:39:08
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:39:12
Renee McGregor
That's not what's going to get me around a mountain. And I think that's the thing, right?
00:39:14
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:39:16
Renee McGregor
I think one of the things that's very difficult about social media and especially about run, run fluences, as I call them in the book, is that they all, again, they all kind of,
00:39:29
Renee McGregor
generate this belief that you have to look a certain way to be successful.
00:39:34
Renee McGregor
And, you know, some of these, some of these run fluences are actually not very good runners. They're just very, very good at content creation and they're very, very good at, um, selling running but they're not actually that good runners so what they look like is really not that relevant and actually it's if you look after your body if you fuel it well if you rest well if you listen to it that's what gets the right outcome so i when someone comes to me and says i'm training for this and i want to lose this
00:39:34
UKRunChat
yeah
00:39:46
UKRunChat
yeah
00:40:09
Renee McGregor
I'm like, I'm not the right person for you to work with. And actually often they'll ask me why. and then I explain, they're like, oh, actually I want to try your method. And, and they do, they always end up doing well. And actually along the way, they probably do lose a little bit of body fat because that's what you would expect, but it's not the outcome.
00:40:28
UKRunChat
yeah
00:40:29
Renee McGregor
And I think that's the difference. If, if you really want to perform well, your performance has to be the outcome, not your body. and then you end up where you end up.
00:40:37
UKRunChat
yeah yeah it's kind of forgetting all that noise isn't it that's going on every day when we open our phones and have a look yeah and Yeah, that can take a lot of kind of, I guess, willpower to ignore that, can't it?
00:40:47
Renee McGregor
yeah
00:40:52
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:40:53
Renee McGregor
Totally. I think it's really, really difficult, you know, and I'm not going to you know i'm not going to sit here and and pretend that I don't get influenced by social media because I do. it winds me up when I do.
00:41:07
Renee McGregor
but ah we're all human, you know, and I think that's you know that's the thing.
00:41:09
UKRunChat
yeah
00:41:11
Renee McGregor
I think the only thing you can do is is try and limit the amount of time you spend on it and obviously surround yourself with
00:41:18
UKRunChat
Yeah. We do.
00:41:19
Renee McGregor
you know, kind of um good role models. And I think that that can then make a big a big difference.
00:41:24
UKRunChat
yeah
00:41:26
Renee McGregor
But I think it's we live in really difficult times because, know,
00:41:29
UKRunChat
gave
00:41:30
Renee McGregor
we literally have access to information 24 seven and our brain can't assimilate that much information that quickly. And so it's constantly like taking everything in and it's creating all these sound bites. And suddenly you've got like all these different thoughts and beliefs going on in your head. And you you sort of feel like you have to do all of this stuff because you're being directed by your brain.
00:41:53
Renee McGregor
But the reality is they're just thoughts. you know, they're not you, they're just thoughts. and And you have to learn how to respond to those thoughts. And I think, again, that's, it takes quite a lot of practice. But, you know that's the kind of big aspect of mindfulness. And obviously, a big thing that I try and teach in my, my work is, is being able to, to see you for who you are, and see what else is going on around you. So even if you're fearful of something, it's not, it's not,
00:42:23
Renee McGregor
your fear, it's a fear. You know, when you've got a thought, it's not my thought, it's not I need to become this, it's a thought.
00:42:26
UKRunChat
yeah
00:42:31
Renee McGregor
and And the more you separate it, the more you can respond to it in a much more appropriate manner.
00:42:37
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah. that's really That's a really interesting way to look at it actually. Yeah. just Just talk to me a little bit more about, because we touched upon it then with under fueling and specifically how that can lead to RED-S.
00:42:50
Renee McGregor
Yes.
00:42:50
UKRunChat
and That's kind of a relatively new term, isn't it, over the last years?
00:42:54
Renee McGregor
Yeah. Yeah, so Red S stands for relative energy deficiency and I put it in brackets in sport because we now basically starting to realize it's just relative energy deficiency full stop.
00:43:02
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:43:07
UKRunChat
yeah
00:43:07
Renee McGregor
oh It's still not the best description for what goes on, but I'll try and explain. So REDS is basically a multi-system condition.
00:43:18
Renee McGregor
And some of the symptoms that you might present with if you have REDS, and and it is it you know it's it's it can vary, but you can have...
00:43:30
Renee McGregor
sort of recurrent injuries and illness. So like that could be recurrent ligament and tendon injuries, or it could be more bone stress type injuries. You could have um depressed immune systems.
00:43:43
Renee McGregor
So more kind of like auto-immunity type symptoms, which watch is what I had in in in the end.
00:43:47
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:43:48
Renee McGregor
You can have hormonal disruption. So, you know, women can start to see ah menstrual disturbances and eventually complete loss of menstruation. And and and in men,
00:44:00
Renee McGregor
Although it's not as visual straight away, they will be producing less and less testosterone. And eventually that will affect things like their morning erectile function. um You can have cardiac issues. You can have um peripheral nerve damage. You can you can have and poor adaptation to training, poor recovery issues.
00:44:21
Renee McGregor
You know, it can affect you psychologically. So you name it, like it says ah it can really have this widespread impact on your body. And there are two types of reds. There's intentional reds and there's unintentional reds.
00:44:35
Renee McGregor
And unintentional reds is kind of when an individual just doesn't appreciate just how much... fuel they need. But also i want to add here that fuel, like eating is not the only contributor, like low energy availability. So not having enough fuel to support your training is a big, is a big component, but actually insufficient, an insufficient recovery and also just general stress to the nervous system. So for example, you know, people trying to basically keep their bodies smaller,
00:45:10
Renee McGregor
than their body genetically wants to be, that in itself will create stress in the central nervous system and the body will pick up on that stress.
00:45:12
UKRunChat
yeah
00:45:19
Renee McGregor
So anything that actively causes ah bigger threat to the central nervous system can contribute towards Red S. It's not just about enough energy, which I think is often kind of a misconception because of, again, because of social media, because so many athletes are talking about their own experiences about Red S.
00:45:33
UKRunChat
yeah
00:45:38
Renee McGregor
People just assume, oh, it's about food. And if I eat enough, I'll be able to kind of reverse it. And it's not as simple as that. It's more complicated. But like I said, unintentional Red S is...
00:45:50
Renee McGregor
is very much you just don't appreciate this and I think that's it when you're like maybe new to running and you get caught up with all the influences and and them just eating like protein and not eating carbs or doing back-to-back racing you know it's become
Understanding RED-S and Nutrition Advice
00:46:04
Renee McGregor
so commonplace to basically train every single day and yet 20 years ago If you went to the gym three times a week, that was in enough.
00:46:14
Renee McGregor
You know, like it's we've almost normalized over training. So I think it's anything that creates a lot of stress to your central nervous system and you get this real fatigue in your central nervous system that will then contribute to these potential symptoms that I've spoken about.
00:46:32
Renee McGregor
Intentional Redis is much more complicated and is often underpinned by disordered eating, eating disorders, and also exercise dependency. So this is the group I work in most, is athletes of all levels, so all the way up from elite level to recreational level, who have a bit more of a complicated and dysfunctional relationship with, I guess, both athletes,
00:46:42
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:46:57
Renee McGregor
with all like food, their bodies and, you know, and exercise. And I think that's the key thing. Like it's, it's, it is a complicated situation because, you know, when you look at elite athletes, they do sadly still seem to have a look.
00:47:19
Renee McGregor
Um, and often that look might not be compatible with health.
00:47:25
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:47:26
Renee McGregor
Right.
00:47:26
UKRunChat
yeah
00:47:27
Renee McGregor
So even though they may appear healthy. Actually, over time, keeping their body in that low percentage of body fat. it will start to have negative consequences.
00:47:40
Renee McGregor
so so it's, it's, it's a, it's a difficult, it's a difficult situation to to kind of be working with. And I suppose it also, then when we look at the elite level and we're kind of trickling it down, then a lot of people are going, well, they do all this training.
00:47:55
Renee McGregor
They look like this. They just have protein. They do lots of fasted training, et cetera, et cetera. And so this is what I'm going to do because I want to be able to mimic what they're doing and, and, you know,
00:48:07
Renee McGregor
be an elite athlete, you know?
00:48:08
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:48:10
Renee McGregor
And again, I think, I mean, i speak about this in the book, but elite athletes are outliers. You know, they are physiologically gifted. So not all of us can be elite runners.
00:48:22
Renee McGregor
right Like we can all give it a go but the likelihood is even if we put the same training in and the same kind of lifestyle, we won't be getting the same results as them because we're just not that way inclined.
00:48:37
Renee McGregor
And I guess it's sometimes that can be hard a quite a hard swallow, sorry, quite a hard pill to swallow because, you know, again, i think they they the run fluencer market would would make you think that everybody can become an elite runner.
00:48:42
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:48:53
Renee McGregor
And I remember interviewing an elite ah marathon runner a couple of years ago and she'd kind of come from nowhere to a certain degree.
00:49:03
Renee McGregor
And she sort of I asked her, i was like, what do you think, like, what's the message you want to give people? And she said, oh, I just want to let people know that if you have a dream, just go for it because eight it's it's all possible. And I was sitting there going, reading really uncomfortable about that because I'm like, well, not everyone can become a 233 marathon runner, even if they did work hard.
00:49:25
Renee McGregor
And I think it's really important to be realistic and appreciate that's not possible for everybody. You know, that there will be some people who can absolutely do it, but not all of us, regardless of. And that's not about not being good enough. That's just not having the physiological advantages that you need to be able to do that kind of training and then running.
00:49:46
UKRunChat
Yeah, I think that's a very important lesson to take away from this chat, actually, isn't it?
00:49:52
Renee McGregor
Yeah, definitely.
00:49:52
UKRunChat
and what If somebody's there listening to this episode and thinking, you know, alarm bells going off, thinking maybe i i am under fueling, what would you recommend to them if they are starting to notice symptoms, perhaps, of what you just mentioned there?
00:50:06
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:50:06
Renee McGregor
I'd say, I'm not just saying this because I've written it, but I'd say definitely have a read of the book because I think it's a really good starting point. You know, the book explains so much about how our relationship with running and eating can go wrong. And I think it's the first step. It's the first step to understanding that, oh, okay, I'm doing this wrong or whatever. And I think if you can use the book as a guidance and and start to support your training more appropriately, listening to your body more without any barriers, then the likelihood is you're going to get things back on track.
00:50:43
Renee McGregor
If, however, you find you're trying to follow some of the information in the book, maybe it's about carbs, maybe it's about, you know, resting a bit more, but you are coming up with psychological barriers that are struggling and you're struggling with, then I think the the next step really is to reach out and get some support because, know,
00:50:43
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:51:02
Renee McGregor
it's it's nothing to be ashamed of. Like I said earlier, you know, these dysfunctional behaviours, we all have them to a certain degree. And I think, you know, we all have them because humans are designed to avoid threat.
00:51:18
Renee McGregor
And humans, unfortunately, our brain has been evolved to
00:51:18
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:51:18
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:51:23
Renee McGregor
always sort of sit in this negativity bias so we always believe the worst as well so it's it's a really bad mixture of of kind of of being you know of kind of behaviors and and um presence to a certain degree so nobody like we all will we all try and avoid feeling bad right whether that's because we've
00:51:32
UKRunChat
yeah
00:51:45
Renee McGregor
it's It's interesting actually, I was talking to a friend the other day and then she was saying something about, oh, I can't, I need to go and do this thing because I feel guilty if I don't. And I was like, that doesn't make any sense.
00:51:57
Renee McGregor
said, do you want to go and do this? And she goes, no. said, well, then why would you feel guilty? tea And she's like, well, because, you know, there's expectation. i was like, from whom?
00:52:07
Renee McGregor
It's really interesting. When you start, and when you start, and I said, so basically you're going to do something you don't want to do to avoid feeling something you don't want to feel. That's what you're doing. And she looked at me and she goes, oh my God, that is so true.
00:52:21
Renee McGregor
And I was like, doesn't make any sense.
00:52:22
UKRunChat
ah
00:52:24
Renee McGregor
Just you don't need to go and do something else to not feel something you don't want to feel. You know i think and I think that's it. Like as humans, we we have a tendency to avoid certain feelings that are uncomfortable and difficult for us.
00:52:36
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:52:37
Renee McGregor
And we are unwilling to feel. And that might be that you project onto your body. It might be you project onto your running. It might be you. You project onto someone else, right?
00:52:48
Renee McGregor
Like we all have behaviors that help us to feel safe, but it is a false sense security.
00:52:48
UKRunChat
yeah
00:52:57
Renee McGregor
It's not, it's not a real security. And actually the biggest piece of advice I can give people is, is learning not to be fearful of your feelings.
00:53:08
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:53:08
Renee McGregor
Like feelings are a barometer. They're telling us something is happening. And it might feel incredibly intense and it might feel incredibly overwhelming. But remember, it's just a feeling.
00:53:21
Renee McGregor
And, you know, if that feeling has evoked from a very difficult experience that may have happened to you in the past, like, you know, with me, I still get very evoked when i experience or also when I hear things.
00:53:40
Renee McGregor
I find it very, very difficult. I've grown up with that as a constant threat to my life. And, you know, in recent weeks where I'm seeing and reading lots of negativity around racism,
00:53:55
Renee McGregor
Community leaders who are trying to take people of colour into the hills and into the countryside to see the benefits and they're getting a lot of abuse. It really evokes a very strong reaction to me and I don't feel safe.
00:54:06
UKRunChat
yeah
00:54:11
Renee McGregor
Now I'm very aware that that's a feeling and it's a feeling that has come from a personal experience of when I was younger and and throughout my life. But actually what I can do with that now is go, I understand this is a feeling and I understand why I feel unsafe, but it's not factual for me right in this moment.
00:54:31
UKRunChat
yeah
00:54:31
Renee McGregor
And I think that's, it's it's not a simple thing to do, but it's really important to think about that. I think we we all get evoked, especially if we've had difficult experiences, you know, whether we've been bullied as a kid, whether we've been taunted about our body or whatever it is, these are the things that fundamentally shape the behaviors we have as adults, because we've been constantly avoiding those feelings.
00:54:56
Renee McGregor
But actually understanding where they come from and then thinking about what you need to feel okay in that moment is ah is a big part of being able to navigate life you know in a much kind of simpler way, I guess, and always constantly avoiding our feelings.
00:55:13
UKRunChat
Yeah. Wow. Gosh, we are very complex creatures, aren't we?
00:55:17
Renee McGregor
Very, very. And I and i think like this is this is, you know, this is like... A lot of clients that come to my clinic will often feel so much shame and so much like embarrassment about their behaviors. And I'm like, but why? These ah these are just behaviors you've learned when ah when in times where things have been difficult and you've just learned because they help you they've helped you to to be here,
00:55:46
Renee McGregor
to survive But what we know is these behaviours are now longer no longer serving you and they're no longer helping you be the runner you want to be or or like whatever the performance is that you want.
00:55:57
Renee McGregor
And so we have to unpick them. We have to find healthier strategies to help you cope. and that's And I think that's it that's probably the truth for quite a lot of people is that we are complicated and it's not simple.
00:56:09
Renee McGregor
um And we can always believe that if we have a better body or we get a faster time, it's going to make our life easier. perfect or it's going to make our life feel better and it might do for about five minutes and then we'll be looking for the next thing and the next thing and the next thing and I guess that's the thing is that being able to appreciate that really the only the only minute we have the only thing we really have is our present you know we don't have we don't know and we can't yes we need to sometimes understand what's happened to us in the past and how it's shaped us but we don't need to
00:56:37
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:56:46
Renee McGregor
always believe that story that's been created.
00:56:48
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:56:50
UKRunChat
Yeah. But it's it's that awareness, isn't it, that's key.
00:56:52
Renee McGregor
Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.
00:56:53
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah, well, hopefully that has helped some people out there who listening to this episode. So yeah, do do go and seek some help if you find that this has been useful to you. and I'd like to kind of just go on to a few more practical fueling tips now, that's all right.
00:57:07
Renee McGregor
Of course, yeah, yeah.
00:57:10
UKRunChat
and ah I picked up... ah made so many notes for your book, honestly. A chapter that I did like a lot was all the different key nutrients and that not all calories are equal.
00:57:22
Renee McGregor
Yes.
00:57:22
UKRunChat
Because I'd always assumed, for example, that fruit and veg were a good source of carbs, but actually that's not exactly the case, is it?
00:57:29
Renee McGregor
Yeah, so I think it's it's important to understand that in the context of runners, particularly when you need energy, then actually, if you think about high fiber foods, the reason why we always encouraging people to eat a lot of high fiber is because it's indigestible and it's really good for our gut biome, right? It helps us have a healthy digestive system.
00:57:53
Renee McGregor
However, in the context of runs runners, if you eat too much, food that's undigestible you're not going to get any energy from it so it's not going to deliver the goods that you need so i think that's the bit like so i think the way i've described it in the book is if you take a carrot um you know a carrot in in if you use like a food tracking app which i absolutely loathe but if you did the the carrot would it would suggest that the carrot 100 grams a carrot would give you 10 calories so 10
00:58:26
UKRunChat
And.
00:58:27
Renee McGregor
units of energy, shall we say, it's probably, you know, but you don't actually absorb that, So even though the the tracking app is telling you that, you know, fundamentally, yes, if we burn that carrot down, that's how much energy would be yield.
00:58:42
Renee McGregor
But when you consume the carrot, the human body can't absorb all of that because it's there's so much of it's undigestible. And so you'd only actually absorb maybe two two units of energy energy from it.
00:58:54
Renee McGregor
And I think that's the bit that's important. it's not saying you shouldn't eat fruit fruits and vegetables.
00:58:57
UKRunChat
yeah
00:58:57
Renee McGregor
It's not saying that they're not an important component of our diet because they are. But I think too many people have got caught up in having things like, you know, carrots and broccoli and butternut squash as their carb source and and then wondering why they find the run the next day so hard.
00:59:17
Renee McGregor
Well, it's going to be hard because you're not actually getting the the carbohydrate you need to build your glycogen stores to, you know, to be able to deliver energy to the muscles.
00:59:25
UKRunChat
yeah
00:59:27
Renee McGregor
So yeah, it's, it's important to understand. And that's why I don't really like calories because it's not, it's not a helpful. It's not really useful at all. And also probably very out of date.
00:59:38
Renee McGregor
You know, when I think about studying as a dietician and being taught about, these old fashioned Harris Benedict equations of how you work out how many calories somebody needs. I mean, they were, they're, they're quite prehistoric.
00:59:55
UKRunChat
Yeah, well.
00:59:55
Renee McGregor
It's definitely not, it's not something I would use now, you know, it's, it's definitely not very helpful.
01:00:02
UKRunChat
No, no. So what sort of carbs should people be looking at then as a fuel source?
01:00:07
Renee McGregor
So again, ideally we want people to have more of the kind of complex carbohydrates. So so things like your rice and pasta and bread and couscous, you know, potatoes. These are the kinds of, that build your meals on these. And whether you choose whole grain or white options will probably depend on the timing. So I would say, you know, like,
01:00:30
Renee McGregor
Generally speaking, if I've got a race or I've got a harder run to do in the in the next within the next 24 hours, I would probably have more white, kind of white rice, white pasta, um potatoes, for example.
01:00:44
Renee McGregor
But if i'm you know if I've just got like an easy run or I'm recovering from a from a run, then I'll probably have more whole grains, so whole grain rice, whole grain pasta. for example, just, I tend to always eat whole grain bread, I'll be honest, just because prefer it.
01:00:58
UKRunChat
yeah
01:00:59
Renee McGregor
But I would, I guess I'm just a bit more, I'll be a little bit more kind of like, um conscious that if I'm, I don't want too much fiber, but ahead of a race or ahead of a harder run, because for two reasons, one, I want to make sure I'm absorbing enough. But also, secondly, I don't want to have um any GI issues during that run.
01:01:20
Renee McGregor
So that's, that's one i'll be a little bit more careful, I guess. But the other thing to remember is that we can also train our guts, like I've been vegetarian my whole life. So i can eat, I can happily eat beans and pulses, and go for a run without any negative consequences, where again, if someone is new to beans and pulses, it may take several months ah of their body getting used to that before they can go for a run without it having any
01:01:32
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:01:47
Renee McGregor
consequences on their on their run.
01:01:47
UKRunChat
Yes. Yeah. So it's just a case of practice really. Yeah.
01:01:52
Renee McGregor
Yeah,
01:01:53
UKRunChat
Yeah. So just while we're on the subject debts of carbs, just talk to us a little bit about carb loading for a big race. And so you mentioned there you might eat more kind of white kind of simple carbs kind of closer to the event how should we be like should we be eating lots more in the lead up should we just replacing some of the elements of our meal with more carbs how does that how should that work
01:02:19
Renee McGregor
Yeah, I mean, generally speaking, i think firstly, it's important to know that you probably only need to carb load if you're doing like a longer distance. So, you know, probably maybe yeah half marathon and upwards, I'd guess, is probably ah really important kind of goal.
01:02:26
UKRunChat
yeah
01:02:35
Renee McGregor
cut off point, I guess.
01:02:36
Renee McGregor
It doesn't matter if you do eat, like, I guess I'd still want, even if you were doing a 10K or something, you'd still eat like more carbs in the sort of 36 hours maybe ahead of it. But I think in a, for anything like a marathon, you're looking more like 72 hours ahead.
01:02:36
UKRunChat
yeah
01:02:50
Renee McGregor
You're to make sure that you're, you know, you've got full glycogen stores going into that race, basically. um And what i normally suggest is that if you're running on Saturday, for example, Saturday morning, then really Wednesday, Thursdays when you want to do the work.
01:03:08
Renee McGregor
So that's when you want to kind of maybe just ensure that you're getting enough carbohydrates.
01:03:08
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
01:03:12
Renee McGregor
I don't tend to increase my volume of food, but just kind of be a bit more mindful of choices.
01:03:14
UKRunChat
no
01:03:18
Renee McGregor
So for example, if I, if I'm having a snack, it'll be carb based rather than more like in, rather than it being fruit or protein based, it'll be more carb based. So i might have a hot cross bun or, um, I might have a banana rather than an apple, for example, you know, just kind of change things up a little bit.
01:03:33
UKRunChat
yeah
01:03:35
Renee McGregor
um And so you want to make sure you're doing that definitely sort of Wednesday, Thursday, and then Friday, you can kind of just go back to eating however feels comfortable for you, because it's really important that you are happy and comfortable. know, we're already anxious enough before a marathon or a race that you just need to eat what feels right for you. But one thing I do tend to recommend is if your race is in the morning, I do tend to recommend you have your main meal at lunchtime, just so you've got, again, good amount of time to digest your food.
01:04:00
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:04:02
UKRunChat
yeah
01:04:03
Renee McGregor
Um, and then youre you're still eating in the evening, but you just tend to have a slightly lighter meal. So it might be that you have, don't know, baked potato, or you might have, don't know, some, I don't know, eggs on toast or something like that, but it's like you've had your main meal at lunchtime.
01:04:18
Renee McGregor
So you're just kind of topping up fundamentally in the, in the afternoon and into the evening. Um,
01:04:24
UKRunChat
yeah
01:04:24
Renee McGregor
Obviously, hydration is also key. So actually staying hydrated is really important because that's what helps you to build glycogen stores. So again, people don't always realize that you if you're dehydrated, you won't build glycogen stores as quickly. So making sure you stay hydrated is also important. and I guess at this stage, you could start drinking electrolytes if you wanted to, particularly like if you know it's going to be relatively warm,
01:04:50
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:04:50
Renee McGregor
as well, it can be quite useful. I think London Marathon is always ah an interesting one because you've trained throughout the winter and it's always quite warm on the day.
01:04:54
UKRunChat
It's a funny one, isn't it? Yeah.
01:04:58
Renee McGregor
So I think I tend to recommend that people start hydrating with um electrolytes at least 24 hours before, but you can do a bit before that if you want to, at least 24 hours before.
01:04:58
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:05:10
Renee McGregor
just It's not that it's going to so stay in your body, but the thing about electrolytes is it helps draw water in. So it just keeps you hydrated. that's the the key kind of thinking behind it.
01:05:20
UKRunChat
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's really helpful, actually. um So I put um a few questions out to our community to ask whether they had any questions. And interestingly, most of them have all come back about fueling during marathons or during the long run.
01:05:37
UKRunChat
So and most of them are about should we be taking gels or should we be taking a complete hydration and energy, and something like Tailwind, for example, or should we be having like real food?
01:05:49
UKRunChat
and So they're all very much, I think this is the thing most people are confused about. What are your thoughts on fueling during ah maybe a a trail race versus um a marathon, for example?
01:06:00
Renee McGregor
Yeah, so I think that's the first thing is it depends on the race.
01:06:02
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:06:02
Renee McGregor
Like if you're doing a ah hard, if you're doing ah road run or you're doing a harder run, as in you know, with trail running, we tend to, we do tend to slow down, maybe going walk up some of the hills.
01:06:17
Renee McGregor
um There tends to be aid stations. It's slightly different. it's a slightly different kind of race to ah say a marathon or even a ah you know, even a longer race.
01:06:25
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
01:06:28
Renee McGregor
ultra where you're going to probably going at slightly harder, hard, higher pace, but you're also going to be at a higher pace more consistently. i think that's the probably the best way to describe it is that in a trail race, your pace is constantly changing.
01:06:35
UKRunChat
yeah
01:06:41
Renee McGregor
Whereas in a road race, you're kind of, you know, um doing ah consistent ish pace. And so in those situations, it's probably easier to use sports nutrition in terms of like on a road, it's probably easier because you're going to digest it a lot quicker. You're not trying to chew and run at a high speed at the same time, which can be really problematic.
01:07:02
Renee McGregor
And obviously sports nutrition has been formulated to be absorbed quickly and deliver to the working muscles quickly. So that would be like when I would tend to only use sports nutrition, for example. So,
01:07:17
Renee McGregor
um Not that I do many road races, but if I was, that's what I would do. And what I would choose would be very, I think it would, it's very, it's up to you. Like some people prefer have ah carb drink just because they find it a useful way to also stay hydrated, especially if they're individuals that have quite high losses, for example.
01:07:34
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:07:37
Renee McGregor
So i'm somebody who has really high liquid losses and really high sodium losses. So for me, I find it much easier to use a carb drink that's also got quite a high um concentration of sodium in it because it means that I'm not having to think too much outside of that um to top things up.
01:07:58
Renee McGregor
But I also have i have friends who run who literally hardly use any liquid. Like they don't, you know, they just don't seem to, there just doesn't seem to be an issue for them.
01:08:08
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:08:08
Renee McGregor
So they probably would be better off with gels or chews or whatever.
01:08:08
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:08:12
Renee McGregor
So I think like the sports nutrition is really important from that perspective.
Supplements and Digestive Health
01:08:15
UKRunChat
yeah
01:08:16
Renee McGregor
When you're looking at a trail race, so for me, if I use Lakeland 50 as a good example, it's a real mix of running that. Like you've got you've got flatter sections, but you've got technical sections, you've got big c climbs, you've got a bit of everything going on.
01:08:31
Renee McGregor
um And i I did have a real mix of food. So I did i had ah did have carb drinks because I find that is really easy to use. One, if I'm running fast or if I'm tired and can't think, then I find it's a really useful way just to get blood glucose, get glucose back into my brain and and thinking a bit better.
01:08:54
Renee McGregor
But I also had a lot of real food with me too. So, you know, real mix of things like jelly sweets to bagels, to mini cheddars, to peanut M&M's, Snickers bars, like you name it, I'll use ah variety of different things. Yesterday on this kind of long recce that did with a friend,
01:09:13
Renee McGregor
i had hot fun and I had a Snickers bar and I had a packet of nano cakes. um And I had lots of carb drink and can't remember what else I had.
01:09:27
Renee McGregor
I had quite a lot. I ended up stopping at a shop as well and and topping up.
01:09:29
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
01:09:29
Renee McGregor
because It was, you know, ended up being quite a long day. So it's a real, it tends to be a real mixture of ah things. But what I will say is Lakeland 50, I did also take some gels with me as a backup.
01:09:42
Renee McGregor
thinking I won't use them but I ended up using them because actually I got to points where I felt quite nauseous and I didn't want to eat but it was really easy to take just to kind of sip on a gel and it really got my energy back up and then I was able to so i think it's it's it's not about what you do it's about thinking about potential eventualities and probably
01:10:03
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:10:04
Renee McGregor
thinking about the contingency planning. So my my bit of advice would be always have something you look forward to eating, always have something that's a bit of an emergency that can just get your sugar level up quite quickly.
01:10:15
Renee McGregor
And then always have something that can deliver the kind of general amount of carbohydrate you need per hour, whether that's real food or sports nutrition is kind of entirely up to you.
01:10:27
Renee McGregor
It's very personal, but what i will say is just practice
01:10:28
UKRunChat
yeah
01:10:30
Renee McGregor
with what you're going to use. And again, like over the years, I've got so much better at eating real food because I, the races I tend to do mean I've got that ability to do so.
01:10:40
Renee McGregor
um But ah yeah again, if I was doing, you know, last summer, I did a twenty five k race here it was a trail race but it was fast you know it was kind of um it was quite quick and i didn't use any real food i just had had some gels with me and and some carb drink because in those environments i know that i just need that energy quickly and it's going to the race is going to be over in a couple of hours so i know i can stomach um sports nutrition for that long.
01:11:11
Renee McGregor
I think when you're looking at sort of six, eight, 12 hours beyond, you're going to get a bit taste fatigue if you're just focusing on the sports nutrition. So that's when you do definitely want to kind think about what else do I enjoy eating that's going to help me get through as well.
01:11:25
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah. so I guess in a long race, the sports nutrition would come in in the later stages, wouldn't it? When, yeah, when you do just need that quick burst. And you also made an interesting point in your book about perhaps more focus focus on protein during the night sections.
01:11:39
Renee McGregor
Yes.
01:11:40
UKRunChat
I found that really interesting, actually.
01:11:42
Renee McGregor
Yeah. So again, this so that delete the latest research that's coming through, particularly for these these longer races, so like, you know, probably, yeah, probably 50 miles upwards where you're out for longer, actually trying to take some protein every sort of fight four-ish hours can also be really good, especially if you're doing um races that have got quite a lot of descending.
01:12:01
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:12:09
Renee McGregor
So where you're going to have a bit more breakdown of muscle, that can be really, really helpful.
01:12:11
UKRunChat
Yeah. OK.
01:12:13
Renee McGregor
But yes, absolutely. During the evening sections, it could be useful to have a little bit more protein because protein is a little bit harder to digest. So the body's kind of a little bit more alert, little bit more awake.
01:12:26
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:12:26
Renee McGregor
It's not saying avoid carbs because that's not going to help for, but you can just kind of focus a little bit more on a little bit more protein later on in the evenings as well, which does make a bit difference.
01:12:30
UKRunChat
No.
01:12:36
UKRunChat
Yeah, OK, yeah, that's really helpful. um I did have another question about managing IBS yeah as a runner. Any tips there?
01:12:44
Renee McGregor
Yeah, it's a really good question. It's so quite a tricky one. So IBS is a really complicated um gut situation. And I think, like again, it's not it's not actually necessarily related to food per se.
01:13:03
Renee McGregor
And it used to be like we used to talk about the FODMAPs and everything else.
01:13:06
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:13:06
Renee McGregor
But but Although there's still a place for FODMAPs, the more research, the more recent research is actually sort of explaining that IBS really is around the anxiety and around kind of the sort of the nervous system and so there's a very good app called Nerva which really does do good work in helping someone with IBS I highly recommend it and it's a real mixture of yeah it's N-E-R-V-A
01:13:34
UKRunChat
Could you spell that for us, Rini?
01:13:39
UKRunChat
Right.
01:13:40
Renee McGregor
um And I have no links to it, just to make that really clear.
01:13:42
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:13:43
Renee McGregor
But it's ah it's a very good app. um it does like It does things from like mindfulness that we just talked about previously to... thinking about your nutrition to a certain degree, but it's a lot of it is about training your nervous system.
01:13:59
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:13:59
Renee McGregor
So it's a very, very good app, I think. So I think that's, that's one thing to suggest. I think the other thing to be aware of is asking yourself, is it IBS?
01:14:10
Renee McGregor
Or is it gastroparesis? Which obviously, which is a condition related to reds. So somebody's significantly under fueling, then you get what we call increased gut permeability, which means you're more likely to get um GI distress because you're not actually eating enough in the overall kind of sort of bigger distance. So in the bigger picture. So I think like it's always important to go, is it IBS or is it something else? Because I think there's a tendency of someone
01:14:43
Renee McGregor
presents at their GP practice with gut issues is for them to say it was IBS. yeah It might be, but it could also be gastroparesis, which is when you you've got this very slow movement of food through the gut because digestion has been reduced because there's not enough energy left over to do it.
01:14:58
UKRunChat
no.
01:15:03
Renee McGregor
And what happens is that as it slows down, you get very similar symptoms to IBS. You get a lot of like bloating and discomfort and increased kind of wind. And then you also get um quite compacted and then kind the diarrhea side of things tends to be the kind of overflow.
01:15:20
Renee McGregor
so it's not very pleasant to talk about, but it it is a symptom actually more related to low energy availability.
01:15:21
UKRunChat
yeah no
01:15:28
Renee McGregor
So I guess its it's always important.
01:15:28
UKRunChat
Okay.
01:15:30
Renee McGregor
I'm not saying it's not IBS, but I think it's important to kind of just make sure that it actually is what you think it is.
01:15:36
UKRunChat
Yeah, so good good to be aware of that when you have that conversation with your GP.
01:15:39
Renee McGregor
yeah
01:15:40
UKRunChat
Yeah, thank you. Well, yeah, thank you, Rini. It's been an absolutely fascinating chat. I said we'd keep you an hour. We've been on quite a bit longer than that.
01:15:48
Renee McGregor
so
01:15:50
UKRunChat
ah I just had one final question, if that's OK. And that is just about supplements.
01:15:53
Renee McGregor
oh
01:15:56
UKRunChat
Are they a waste of money or are there any that we should be considering as runners?
01:16:02
Renee McGregor
I think it really does depend on on what's going on for you. So like, I think that's been like the theme throughout the conversation.
01:16:10
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:16:10
Renee McGregor
but You know, there are certain ones that I would definitely recommend. So like vitamin D is a really important one that we should all be taking through the winter months. So like from October, definitely to April.
01:16:21
Renee McGregor
And sometimes like people who are darker skinned or people who tend to work indoors a bit more, they may well benefit from taking it all year round. like that that's one that we should definitely all be taking. um and And amounts will vary, but generally speaking, people who are active, I'd say somewhere between 1000 2000 international units a day.
01:16:42
Renee McGregor
um Everything else, I would say its depends on your presentation.
01:16:48
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:16:48
Renee McGregor
So if you're vegetarian or plant based, you will probably need to take B12.
01:16:48
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:16:54
Renee McGregor
You might need to take iron, possibly, but you might not, you know, it depends on how not just your diet, but also your absorption of iron, which I think is a key thing.
01:17:04
UKRunChat
yeah
01:17:05
Renee McGregor
I think There's a lot of, there are a lot of people that are plant-based and assume that they're getting everything they need because they have a very balanced diet. And I'm, and that's definitely one way to, it's important to, to, us to kind of have a balanced diet as a plant-based individual.
01:17:22
UKRunChat
Yeah.
01:17:23
Renee McGregor
However, don't always assume you're absorbing everything because it's actually quite difficult to absorb things like calcium and iron from plant-based options. So,
01:17:34
Renee McGregor
It's definitely one that I'm a bit mindful. I'm not saying you shouldn't be plant-based. Like i said, I'm vegetarian. I have been pretty much my whole life, but I think you just have to be, um you have to be careful that you, if you've made that assumption, it might not be the case.
01:17:49
Renee McGregor
And particularly with calcium, you know, a lot of people who are plant-based tend to choose things like oat milk and almond milk that have had like calcium added to them. But we know that the absorption from those is not as good as say,
01:18:03
Renee McGregor
We know that obviously cow's milk does have better bioavailability of calcium, which means you do tend to have stronger bones. So I think it's just it's just important to be aware of of that.
01:18:17
Renee McGregor
um Other supplements that might be useful, I mean, collagen is a big one that's kind of on the market at the moment and people are pushing it left, right and centre.
01:18:24
UKRunChat
Oh gosh, I'm seeing so many adverts for it. Yeah.
01:18:26
Renee McGregor
Yeah, there are certain situations where I would absolutely recommend collagen. um So as we get older, our connective tissue does get more fragile and we do tend to get a lot more tendon injuries.
01:18:42
Renee McGregor
And there is some evidence that if you combine the right types of kind of rehab, so more kind of plyometric type work with a collagen supplement, it can support improving the strength in that.
01:18:56
Renee McGregor
But you also need to make sure you get the right collagen because there's like, there's bovine collagen, there's marine collagen, and there's plant-based collagen. Plant-based collagen is a complete waste of money and there is literally no point in purchasing it at all because there's no such thing as plant-based collagen.
01:19:13
Renee McGregor
So it will be
01:19:13
UKRunChat
yeah
01:19:15
Renee McGregor
it'll be something based on collagen but whether it it won't deliver in the same way.
01:19:19
UKRunChat
yeah and
01:19:20
Renee McGregor
Marine and bovine are interesting. So marine is much better absorbed in the body but it doesn't always have the right specific type of collagen again that you need for your tendons it's very good for your skin and hair and nails but not so good for your tendons and joints and so bovine collagen is the one that we tend to recommend more for tendons and joints but again there's still still not enough information to know how much of that we actually absorb and utilize but again the studies
01:19:35
UKRunChat
yeah
01:19:56
Renee McGregor
you know, they do show some promise. So if anybody does have tendon and ligament issues, I tend to recommend the bovine, but obviously that's problematic if you're plant-based because you won't take it.
01:20:07
Renee McGregor
But I really wouldn't waste your money if you're plant-based on a plant-based collagen because it's completely pointless. And the other thing I'd say is collagen needs to be taken in quite big doses.
Conclusion and Social Media
01:20:17
Renee McGregor
We're not talking, you know, again, I've seen people who come to clinic and they show me their bottles and pills of things they're taking. And I'm like, kind of pointless taking 500 milligrams of collagen it's not going to make any difference you're looking at more like somewhere between 5 and 15 grams for a dose and again it does depend on why you're taking it so i'd say don't just don't just generically take things definitely work with somebody who understands what they're talking about and ensure it's something you actually need but there is a place for collagen um
01:20:32
UKRunChat
Yeah. Okay. okay
01:20:50
Renee McGregor
And then, yeah, the others, I would say it's very much on a base by base principle. Some people may benefit from creatine, some might not. It's not something I promote actively, to be honest, but there will be the odd individual who I might go, actually, let's give it a go because it could benefit you from from this or or whatever. So, yeah, very much individual by individual basis.
01:21:16
UKRunChat
Yeah, i well, hopefully this episode has given people the opportunity to really think about what they're eating, what their behaviours around food are, and they can start to have those conversations with professionals around them, hopefully.
01:21:29
Renee McGregor
Yes, definitely.
01:21:29
UKRunChat
and Yeah, ah thank you so much for your time. It's been wonderful. So Rini's book, Fuel for Thought More Fuel You um are available now.
01:21:38
Renee McGregor
Yep.
01:21:40
UKRunChat
And where can people find you on social media?
01:21:43
Renee McGregor
I am just r underscore McGregor on Instagram.
01:21:47
UKRunChat
Yeah, lovely. And yeah, do go and follow her. You are always kind of calling things out, aren't you? And not afraid to speak up about things that don't look quite right. and And it's, yeah, it's always very helpful.
01:21:56
Renee McGregor
Yes.
01:21:59
UKRunChat
and Thank you so much. We really hope that everybody out there um has enjoyed this episode and we will see you on the next one.
01:22:07
Renee McGregor
Thanks so much.