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Jacob Allen
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In this episode, we’re joined by British elite distance runner Jacob Allen, who’s lining up in the Elite Field at the 2025 London Marathon. With standout personal bests of 13:47 for 5K, 28:33 for 10K, and 62:43 for the half marathon, Jacob shares what it takes to compete at the highest level—all while balancing a full-time job as a PE teacher.
We dive into his journey into the sport, training philosophies, and the mindset required to perform on the big stage. Jacob also opens up about the challenges of juggling work with elite-level running, his race prep for London, and the lessons he’s learned along the way.
A must-listen for anyone chasing a PB, or simply looking for inspiration from someone who truly lives and breathes the sport.
You can follow Jacob on Instagram here
Photo Credit: Jerry Sun.
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Transcript
Introduction and Background
00:00:00
Jacob
Okay.
00:00:03
ukrunchat
Welcome to this episode of the UK Run Chat podcast. I'm Michelle and today we're joined by Jacob Allen. Jacob's a British distance runner competing at an elite level with personal bests of 13.47 for 28.33 for 10k and 62.43 for the half marathon.
00:00:20
ukrunchat
Jacob balances his athletic pursuits with a full-time role as a PE teacher He will be competing in the elite field at the 2025 London Marathon. Hi, Jacob. Thank you so much for joining us today.
00:00:34
Jacob
Yes, hi. Hi. Happy to be here. It's nice to um come on the podcast and talk all things running. and
00:00:40
ukrunchat
Yeah, really excited to hear about kind of getting into the ah the elite field of
Transition to Running and Early Experiences
00:00:46
ukrunchat
running, really. So can you just give us a bit of an overview of of you and how you got started with running? Have you always been a runner?
00:00:54
Jacob
Yes, from an early age, i grew up in Northampton, um which is a town mad about rugby. um and my early experiences of sport were very much football and rugby driven.
00:01:06
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:01:06
Jacob
But I think around the age of 11 or 12, I started to realise that perhaps I was more suited to um distance running. Yeah, so kind of from 11 or 12, I was encouraged to take up running both by my by my teachers at school and um I think even my parents just recognising that perhaps um that was where most my strengths lied.
00:01:30
ukrunchat
Yeah. So was what kind of distances were you running back at school?
00:01:34
Jacob
ah So cross countries, you know, at first it was cross countries. I remember even in year six. um So before you go into secondary school, you know, having the opportunity to go and compete in the town cross country and that being a really big deal to me and rocking up in my my rugby boots and um just mucking in and giving it a good go. um and yeah so So from that age really and and kind of anything from 1500, 800, 1500 right 5k for cross country races.
00:02:03
Jacob
um right up to four to five k um you know for for cross- country races
00:02:10
ukrunchat
Yeah. So how was that kind of talent kind of looked after back then? were you Did you join a running club or was that just kind of did it all kind of happen around school?
00:02:22
Jacob
I was very fortunate. My parents moved to ah part of the town where Northampton School for Boys was, um which is a really good school for sport.
00:02:28
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:02:32
Jacob
um It's a state school, but a a very good state school for sport. And um my PE teacher there, Mr. Taplin, who I'm still in touch with even today, I see him almost annually at the English Schools Cross Country event now as a PE teacher myself, which is always a nice...
00:02:47
ukrunchat
Oh, that's okay. Yeah.
00:02:49
Jacob
Yeah, it's a really nice moment. um So yeah, ah kind of encouraged me, helped me to join the team at school. Parents took me also down to the local athletics club. My dad was also running laps at the local athletic clubs in in the in the men's group there. So um yeah, just just was really fortunate to have the right people at the right time encouraging me to go down and and take
Training and Enjoyment Balance
00:03:15
Jacob
part. And for me at that point, it very much was just taking part. I wasn't necessarily...
00:03:20
Jacob
I was good at a town level, you know, inside the top 10 at a town level, perhaps even top five, um but I wasn't necessarily... what you would call an elite runner and certainly I would go to national events right through my school years and not feature inside the top 100 nationally.
00:03:41
Jacob
So for me from a very early age it was more about going and and enjoying the sport and and you know seeing your friends down the local athletics club and um enjoying it for all that it is as opposed to just the performance element of it.
00:03:56
ukrunchat
Yeah, I think that's really important at that age, though, isn't it? Because we can be sometimes guilty as as parents, as coaches of of trying to push youngsters too far, I think. So it's good that you were you experienced it in an enjoyable way.
00:04:11
Jacob
Yeah, I mean, you know, I got to university and perhaps ah some of the juniors who I admired growing up, um and because they were the the top juniors nationally, had been training at quite a high level for quite some time.
00:04:28
Jacob
And I started to train more and I started to increase my training load and um learn from guys like that and and girls like that and um the coaches at the university.
00:04:42
Jacob
But I hadn't burnt myself out. I'd you know always had this kind of um club feel to it all where it's it's about the enjoyment and about turning up and seeing your friends and and getting fit and keeping healthy.
00:04:57
Jacob
It had always been more than just trying to be a top a top runner. um Yeah, so...
00:05:05
Jacob
you know At the time, i might not have appreciated that, but now I can see how that's led me to have um quite a long career, I guess you could call it, in in sports and in competing for quite a long time. and know I've been doing it since I was 11 years old and I'm still very much enjoying it and um you know not planning to stop for at least another few years. so yeah
00:05:25
ukrunchat
Yeah, that's that's really good to hear. And so was there a kind of moment or race where you realised that you were actually quite good at running and could potentially be competing at an elite level?
00:05:39
Jacob
um Yes, I mean, i always had this feeling that I could be quite good and perhaps it was the school that I was at and and and this um you're surrounded by top, top athletes in different sports.
00:05:51
Jacob
um There was guys in the local Saints, Northampton Saints Rugby Academy, even close friends of mine, ah friends, classmates, peers also playing for the Northampton Town Football Academy.
00:06:03
Jacob
um And, you know, when you're in an environment like that, you perhaps also maybe feel that you could also do something, um particularly as you were the best school pupil in your year group, or perhaps even amongst a few year groups in that in that school, um you start to get a feeling about yourself and the fact that you could potentially do something special with it.
Role Models and Support Network
00:06:25
Jacob
um And certainly the role models around me, whether it was Mr. Taplin, my PE teacher, Steve McGowan, my my club coach or or my parents were never discouraging or, um you know, they didn't necessarily ever put any limitations on what I could go and achieve.
00:06:41
Jacob
So yeah, that's always a really lovely thing.
00:06:44
ukrunchat
Yeah. So ah how long have you been running kind of at elite times then? Is that fairly recent or...?
00:06:52
Jacob
I mean, um perhaps at university i was I was showing signs of potentially reaching that level um and in In my later 20s, I've really come on and ah I put a lot of that down to kind of maturing and figuring out what the right training load is for me.
00:07:12
Jacob
um and you know, perhaps even just taking the time to, you know, giving giving it the time that it requires. I think that we think that you can just... ah in 12 months, two years, three years, which might seem like a huge amount of time, move from um you know perhaps even club level to to an elite level. And that's certainly not the case. It does take time and patience. And yeah, even even now I have goals that I want to achieve and I still think that i am' I'm having to exercise such patience to get there.
00:07:45
ukrunchat
Yeah, we we are very impatient nowadays, aren't we?
00:07:49
Jacob
Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly. And um I'm constantly reminding myself to remember that and to think about um moments in my early 20s where perhaps I wavered and dropped off in terms of my training and put my focuses elsewhere for a period, whereas the last three to five years where I've been very disciplined, um lived my life in a really balanced way, taken care of myself in in all aspects of life and i starting to really see the benefits of all of that.
00:08:23
ukrunchat
Yeah. So what kept you going, Jacob, kind of in in your early 20s when you, what stopped you from kind of giving up and thinking I can't go any further?
00:08:33
Jacob
um you know i'm I'm very fortunate. I've got a club coach, Steve McGowan, who um has always picked up the phone and he's always been a mentor of mine.
00:08:44
Jacob
um and you know Even now, he kind of operates more as a mentor than as a coach. um I have ah another coach who also gives me some training guidance nowadays.
00:08:56
Jacob
But Steve is someone who's been with me right from a very early age and has always been on the other end of the phone that doesn't matter whether it's been about my my school life whether it's been about my um anything anything that I've ever needed to pick up the phone and talk to him about you know almost like a father figure and you know I'm very very fortunate so lucky to have him and um perhaps always being interested as well in What is my limit and what potentially could I do in a sport? and
00:09:28
Jacob
um Something that I've picked up on and I think that many athletes who are considering, especially people who are my age, um so I'm 30 years of age now, um people who are maybe 25 and up, wondering whether or not they should or shouldn't continue something and they're on that path of making a decision about whether they can balance it around work.
00:09:49
Jacob
I do think that people who have invested a huge amount of time in something will look to find something else and you end up just filling that time.
Balancing Running with Career and Life
00:09:58
Jacob
If you've got the discipline to have previously trained at a ah good level, then you end up just filling that time and and and steering it towards something else. And um I've really tried to be mindful of that in the last few years and remember that. But in those other periods where I wavered all I did was fill the time perhaps with gym or um perhaps with my my my work my my school work and so just remembering that and and knowing that actually that is who you are and if you invest that time into something like running which is this very personal thing um you can experience this really great reward from it all
00:10:37
ukrunchat
Yeah, I think that's a really important point, isn't it? Because we we do have to put a lot of effort into something, don't we? And we don't often see the effort when we see people achieving great running times.
00:10:45
Jacob
Yeah.
00:10:49
ukrunchat
We don't see the effort that goes on behind the scenes. So that's what i'm I'm really keen to kind of delve into today, actually. So because you but you mentioned work, though, you are you're you're a PE teacher. So that is a that must be a pretty full on job as well.
00:11:05
Jacob
Yes, yeah, particularly at our school where we're a state school that has the ambition to be a top sports school. um You know, in the last five to ten years, there's been some big changes in the sports department at the school that I'm in.
00:11:20
Jacob
And um there's a new wave of staff where we're we're really trying to push um participation and at the school, push a variety of different sports, a number of different sports teams,
00:11:32
Jacob
um For instance, we have ah A to E football teams in almost every year group, which I think you struggle to find many um schools across the country, let alone um inner city schools, offering that type of provision.
00:11:47
ukrunchat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:48
Jacob
um so it's very much participation focused. There is a performance element to it all, um you know plus the fact that we're offering GCSE courses. and yeah So i am I am definitely balancing lot.
00:12:02
Jacob
um But again, I'm just constantly reminding myself how lucky I am to have such fulfillment in my life and to feel so um fulfilled by all.
00:12:09
ukrunchat
yeah
00:12:13
Jacob
And and and yeah, just i try I try to remind myself of that all the time.
00:12:17
ukrunchat
Yeah, and i think I think you have to enjoy both elements as well, don't you, to be able to do them to your best ability.
00:12:23
Jacob
Yeah, I mean, but get i mean that the marathon running, to touch on the marathon running, that that really brings you to question almost everything.
00:12:34
Jacob
Your sanity. um You know, at times you might think, cop what what am I doing here? and Is this really a worth it? um cannot Can I even balance this all?
00:12:45
Jacob
um It's definitely heightened all of those things. So I think that if anybody is listening and thinking about marathon running specifically, um ah would say that.
00:12:58
Jacob
my own personal experience has been that it is incredibly challenging especially around a full-time job and um it has challenged me like no other um you know you you talked about my pbs there and their 5k 10k half marathon and um yeah the the marathon has challenged me like nothing nothing ever before and um I'm trying to remind myself of the the positives from that um and and being as positive as possible about it but the you know the the truth of it all is that yeah it is incredibly difficult
00:13:28
ukrunchat
Yeah.
Training and Nutrition Strategies
00:13:30
ukrunchat
So you're doing the, you're in the elite field at the Shares London Marathon. So do you want kind of talk us through how you're preparing for it and how you're fitting everything in?
00:13:33
Jacob
yeah yes yeah I mean um so I think about my fueling week to week I think about the the diet that I might have week to week um I think about my um Sleep.
00:13:55
Jacob
I think about, you know, what times of day I'm going to be sleeping, um how I can get the most consistent sleep pattern, for instance. um I'll be thinking. what times of day I'm going to train, um where does my long run fit over the course of the weekend um around other the life commitments.
00:14:16
Jacob
And yeah, it's just, it's a lot of planning and time and effort goes into that. um I do think that having a coach makes a big difference um and having somebody who perhaps structures the training so that you can then look at it beforehand and
00:14:25
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:14:33
Jacob
build this build this picture around where where where everything is going to fit in the week. um But certainly, yeah, I put a lot of time and effort into that and um I've tweaked things as I've gone. um Yeah, so I mean, i'm I'm running into work, for instance, ah Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And, and you know, just yeah finishing at the local Sainsbury's, picking up my porridge, banana and um extra bits and just heading on in.
00:15:00
ukrunchat
Wow, that's dedication. How long a run commute is that?
00:15:04
Jacob
Well, it would be four miles, but I top it up to about 60 minutes, about eight miles in total.
00:15:11
ukrunchat
Yeah, no, that's great. So what where else you fit your training and do you do the rest of your training of an evening then after work?
00:15:17
Jacob
Yeah, so Tuesday, Thursday is, I mean, typically across the UK, I think that's track nights and club nights for a lot of clubs.
00:15:22
ukrunchat
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:23
Jacob
um So i still follow that pattern. um One thing that I do that is a bit different is a lot of the time I train and independently in the week, sometimes with have a club mate.
00:15:34
Jacob
But very rarely do I go to the actual club nights. um I think that I'm in a position where I've got quite a lot of experience now and I'm also um up quite early on the Monday, Wednesday and Friday because the school hours are quite early. So I've tried to be quite selfish and and and train independently on those evenings.
00:15:57
Jacob
um I think that I've got the experience and the kind of right guidance around me with my coaches and club mates to know how to navigate that ah but yeah so something that I do is is is train independently on Tuesday Thursday evening just a little bit earlier just so I can you know do it at the time that suits me most
00:16:05
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:16:16
ukrunchat
Yeah. So you mentioned um kind of looking after your nutrition and your sleep there. what What does your kind of, do you follow a specific kind of diet, interested to hear what kind of things you find helpful to eat and and when?
00:16:31
Jacob
Yeah, think I think I'm on a journey with that. I think, yeah,
00:16:33
ukrunchat
Yeah. think we all are, aren't we? Yeah.
00:16:36
Jacob
but oh yeah and so much is coming out now and we're seeing so much information and we're taking it all in. And um even when I'm teaching the GCSE um topic on diet and nutrition, I'll be showing them something about a professional sports person and I'll think to myself, wo perhaps I should, I need to be doing that.
00:16:54
ukrunchat
but
00:16:55
Jacob
So yeah, you know a small tweak that I've made recently is ah having my last meal. So if I'm training on a Tuesday, Thursday in the afternoon, I'll have my last meal at about one half one latest.
00:17:08
Jacob
um And then I won't eat again, apart from perhaps a very light snack, something sugary, just to give me a bit of a boost prior to ah a session. For instance, I often use energy gels provided by Precision Fuel Hydrate, Fuel and Hydration.
00:17:26
Jacob
yeah, I... I'm putting more time into thinking about the times of day that I'm eating, the types of foods that I'm eating. um For instance, you know white meats and and fish the night before those types of sessions and and not red meats.
00:17:43
Jacob
um Yeah, just just really simple steps that you can take to make sure that you're feeling your best for for those sessions that are so key in a week.
00:17:49
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:17:52
ukrunchat
Yeah. So and how how does your kind of recovery with with food look like after session? What would you generally eat afterwards?
00:18:00
Jacob
um So often I'll have and another gel.
00:18:04
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:18:04
Jacob
So that the gels that I use are 30 gram carb gels. um So yeah, precision fuel and hydration, 30 gram carb gels, I'll use those. um before, during and after sessions.
00:18:18
Jacob
For instance, for a track session, i might have one 15 minutes before or perhaps just before I go and complete my warmup. um Sometimes if it's a longer track session, something from eight to 10K volume, I might have it in the middle, another gel in the middle.
00:18:33
Jacob
um And then after, just just to stop my energy levels depleting at any point, um And I think a lot of the science now is leaning towards you getting those carbs in almost instantly after a workout.
00:18:48
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:18:49
Jacob
um Something I also use is the carb product um that they offer. So Precision Fuel and Hydration have this carb product that i am is 30 grams of carbs mixed in with some sodium for per 500 milliliters of water.
00:19:05
ukrunchat
and
00:19:08
Jacob
um If I need to wake up early and do a session, that's just a really easy way to get some carbs in quickly. um if you you know the The sodium also allows my body to absorb it a little bit better.
00:19:21
Jacob
um So yeah, just just thinking about how I can use the the everyday supplements that are now available to us um or the the sports supplements that are now available to us to maximize how I'm how i'm feeling and and how I'm recovering. So for instance, this morning I did a track session and it was a 12 kilometer track session before work.
00:19:47
Jacob
I mean, the I did say the marathon is beast in me.
00:19:50
ukrunchat
Yeah, he did.
00:19:51
Jacob
um And yeah, so I had to finish that, get on run to the nearest Northern Line stop.
00:20:02
Jacob
head down to work on the train and just a really simple trick that you can do is just you know have a quick job hop on the train um that's going to stop you kind of feeling that flat feeling that you can feel or perhaps even that sicky feeling that you might feel after quite a hard workout and should keep you going until you're able to get something more um substantial um You know, like a ah proper carbohydrate based breakfast, something a bit more starchy, something with some protein.
00:20:29
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:20:32
Jacob
um Yeah, some some some whole foods in you. So it's just getting that balance right between the whole foods that I'm having um week to week and then the kind of sports supplements that i'm taking.
00:20:45
Jacob
Yeah.
00:20:46
ukrunchat
Yeah, i think you've got to do whatever works for you, haven't you, in the time you have available? i mean, if you've got limited time, that makes sense. Would you be, like how would you be fueling before that morning intent session? Would you be having something before that as well?
00:21:00
Jacob
Yeah, so in the morning i have um the um I have the powder form, so the the drink mix. um So it's a 30 gram drink mix with with the sodium in there.
00:21:12
Jacob
um And then
00:21:16
Jacob
the the thing I've been doing recently is having some rice pudding.
00:21:20
ukrunchat
Yeah, okay, yeah, good one.
00:21:22
Jacob
because I've heard that it is, you know, really beneficial and and and some elite marathon runners in the UK in particular are now using it. Obviously it travels really well. where You can take it in your suitcase. You could have it if you needed to race abroad.
00:21:34
Jacob
um it's It's a substantial amount, enough of carbs that, yeah, it kind of releases ah appropriately to the event requirement of the marathon.
00:21:46
ukrunchat
yeah
00:21:46
Jacob
um So, and, you know, it seems to be quite digestible.
00:21:51
ukrunchat
That's a really good idea.
00:21:52
Jacob
It's not...
00:21:52
ukrunchat
Yeah. yeah
00:21:53
Jacob
It is a good idea, but i don't I don't love it.
00:21:54
ukrunchat
ah But. Is there a but?
00:21:58
ukrunchat
I'm okay.
00:21:59
Jacob
i guess... I'm just like... i um you know I'm happy to do it for the sake of sports performance, um but it's not here to stay in terms of when I go back to 5K, 10K, half marathon running around the rest of the annual year, ah think it will be things like a couple of pieces of toast, ah perhaps a bowl of porridge or you know a banana, um kind of the more ah typical things that people might have.
00:22:05
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:22:27
ukrunchat
Yeah, that it's good that you're experimenting though in the name of kind of you know achieving performance.
00:22:31
Jacob
science and yeah elite performance
00:22:33
ukrunchat
Yeah.
Marathon Preparation and Consistency
00:22:35
ukrunchat
and So talk us through your favorite workout sessions then for for marathon training.
00:22:42
Jacob
um I do really like the steady paced long run so um ah right at the start of the block I'll do about 18 miles at steady pace
00:22:47
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:22:55
Jacob
um and and that will progress right up to even 25 miles. um So a little bit longer. My steady pace ah for around 25 miles would mean I'd be running for about 20 minutes more than I would be running in the marathon itself, um which I think is quite useful.
00:23:12
ukrunchat
right
00:23:14
Jacob
I think that perhaps you should run at least the time that you're planning to be out there for the marathon.
00:23:21
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:23:21
Jacob
um Certainly if you're planning to run an elite time, that is.
00:23:24
ukrunchat
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:25
Jacob
um And so, yeah, i run about 20 minutes more um in that 25 mile long run. um There's also this change to some of the paces throughout the course of the weeks.
00:23:38
Jacob
um So for throughout the course of the first kind of four to eight weeks, there is some of those long runs where you might do, say, 20 miles. And um probably the hardest session, the one that I...
00:23:52
Jacob
found really difficult the previous year, but this year i really enjoyed and managed to get myself running really well in. um Perhaps the nutrition and the sleep and the kind of attention I've put towards that in the past few months has made a massive difference, um is a 20 mile run where you do four miles at marathon pace and one mile at your steady pace and you repeat that four times.
00:24:14
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:24:15
Jacob
So, yeah, that's a very, very challenging workout. But I think if you can get through that and you can get through that at your marathon paces, it's ah it's a good indicator.
00:24:22
ukrunchat
Yeah. Yeah, it is, isn't it, of whether you can achieve what you what you want to. how How kind of close to the marathon would you do that?
00:24:28
Jacob
Yeah.
00:24:31
ukrunchat
And would that be a couple of different sessions? Would you do it multiple times?
00:24:35
Jacob
Yeah, so that that that was... um four to five weeks out I believe um yeah so it's a few weeks ago now so about five weeks out um and yeah you know have one more reasonably difficult workout coming up this Saturday so that's that's uh three weeks out and yeah I mean certainly anything up to kind of three to four weeks out you don't want to do anything much harder after that um
00:24:42
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:24:47
ukrunchat
yeah
00:25:07
ukrunchat
no no
00:25:08
Jacob
But even even this workout that's coming up this Saturday is not anywhere near as difficult as that workout I just described. um This has some marathon pace efforts in, um but no nowhere near quite the volume that that 20 mile workout did.
00:25:22
ukrunchat
Yeah, so so are you still kind of peaking in terms of mileage per week or are you starting to kind of ease off now?
00:25:30
Jacob
I'm starting to come down now.
00:25:31
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:25:31
Jacob
So ever so slightly, just um like I say this, this week. um So three weeks out will be my final week of just, just coming down and then there will be a significant drop for the final two weeks.
00:25:43
Jacob
So yeah, kind of follow a fairly traditional marathon pattern actually.
00:25:44
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:25:47
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:25:48
Jacob
um Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:49
ukrunchat
Yeah, okay. um I mean, what what's the biggest difference or lesson that you've learned from training at an elite level to how you were training before? what Where are the differences? What's been the biggest change?
00:26:05
Jacob
I think the consistency with the sessions. um i joined up with a coach two years ago, um so David Chowfen is his name, and um you know my my club coach, Steve McGowan, and and um my my hometown club coach, Steve McGowan, and my my current um training coach, David Chowfen, between the two of them, I think...
00:26:33
Jacob
They want me to be really consistent week to week, two to three sessions. Perhaps the third session is just a steady run. um But two of the sessions need to be really good quality.
00:26:45
Jacob
And I've probably not now, other than when I dislocated my shoulder, um out running. But yes, I, yeah, that was, yeah. Right at the start of this block, actually.
00:26:57
Jacob
But yeah, yeah. But have been really consistent for about two and a bit years now of hitting those sessions, um other than, you know, perhaps a week off at a particular time of year where you might be taking a week off for a holiday, let's say.
00:27:05
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:27:12
Jacob
um I've been really consistent with that. That's probably been the biggest change just previously when I didn't have a coach and I didn't have somebody that was holding me accountable.
00:27:20
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:27:21
Jacob
I was perhaps, you know, you you're a bit easier on yourself, know, You know, that could be with the sleep, that could be with the nutrition, um it could be with you choosing to do a session. and But suddenly when you've got a coach and you're being set this training week to week and you're accomplishing it and and you're seeing the kind of performance improvements week to week because they're setting it and you can almost track it, whether your times are improving or how you felt in a session a year on from the previous year.
00:27:54
Jacob
But also having someone to share that with has made a big difference.
00:27:57
ukrunchat
Yeah, yeah, that's that's really useful, actually. i think consistency does come up a lot when we talk to elite athletes and yeah it's something we all need to to be a bit better at.
00:28:06
Jacob
Yes and like the thing I was saying earlier about keeping going when you think that it's tough and you think that you know um perhaps you'd be better placed putting your energy elsewhere ah think that is also the point where you you you need to carry on and you need to um really try and find the the worth that you get from it all and um you know the intrinsic benefits that you're getting from it all and
00:28:06
ukrunchat
Yeah.
Marathon Goals and Mental Preparation
00:28:33
Jacob
I'm really intrigued by and I'm on this journey of what will happen if I keep doing this, if I keep just being consistent, if I keep training and um taking good care of myself and what could happen.
00:28:46
Jacob
You know, I still think I've got some some improvements in my personal best and, you know, still have a marathon PB to go and run and or a marathon time to go and run. So, um yeah, it's just it's just this what could happen, you know, and um sticking in it is is definitely something.
00:28:57
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:29:03
ukrunchat
Yeah. So what what are you hoping for at London this year, then? You don't have to say if you don't want to.
00:29:09
Jacob
No, i don't mind I don't mind sharing. I mean, I think the pacing group could be anywhere from 2.13 to 2.15 area.
00:29:21
Jacob
um The way the elite field works is you get sent um or given the information about the pacing group quite late on, actually, about 24 hours before.
00:29:30
ukrunchat
Oh.
00:29:30
Jacob
that that You could email the race directors for some prior information and they might give you a ballpark figure. um Certainly, i think that somebody like Alex Yee, who excitingly is running it this year, I think they might give him a bit more information than they'd give somebody like myself. um And I totally respect that and understand that um because he might have a very specific pacer um because he is who he is and he's achieved so much, accomplished so much. and Whereas I'm in this area where there's a number of us all vying for...
00:30:04
Jacob
A certain time and they will take that into consideration, including whether there's been some changes to runners running on the day and and the fitness that people come into the race at and they make that decision fairly late on in terms of what pacing um group I might go with. So or the.
00:30:24
Jacob
um they're going to they're going to throw out there for us. So that could change things. um I'll also have a chat to the athletes in the elite hotel. so about 20, 48 hours, 72 hours beforehand, you go to the elite hotel, you collect some bottles.
00:30:39
Jacob
So again, that'll be the bottles that I'm putting my precision fuel hydration supplements into. um And you obviously go and go and connect with some of the athletes there and get an idea for how how they're feeling, what sort of paces they might be targeting.
00:30:54
Jacob
So, yeah, anything from 2.13 to 2.15 would be amazing. um So, yeah, let's see.
00:31:03
ukrunchat
yeah oh well we'll Yeah, well, yeah, we'll be following and wishing you all the best. and we We were chatting before we started recording a bit about last year's London Marathon. Did you want to chat a bit about what happened there?
00:31:15
Jacob
Yeah, I mean, it was a really difficult day, actually. I didn't sleep too well the night before. I did drink a can of Coke quite late on in the day and i um oh I will never know whether that did impact my sleep or not and whether it was just pre-race nerves.
00:31:33
Jacob
um I don't struggle with pre-race nerves typically like in terms of sleep. So obviously I get nervous but in terms of sleep I don't typically struggle to get to sleep for anything from 5k, 10k to half marathon.
00:31:48
Jacob
um You know, other than the usual, perhaps taking maybe 10, 20 minutes slightly longer than usual, I still tend to get a good sleep. um Whereas last year, I barely slept an hour and I woke up. um Well, no, I was still up at four o'clock in the morning, um kind of thinking to myself, car I've not slept a minute here.
00:32:08
Jacob
And, you know, kept thinking through in my head was it that kind of coke that's caused this and um what have i done and also then trying to go through this process of calming myself and reminding myself that these are things that paula racliff used to kind of go through when she was training and racing and she never slept before marathons and also reminding myself that i've had good races when i've not necessarily slept the best um previously so um yeah it was I perhaps let that play on my mind and in the last stage of the race I was right on pace I got to 20 miles kind of bang on that 2.14 2.15 area um and then you know that that final six miles is incredibly difficult and um psychologically as well as physically I began to to suffer and um yeah some something to
00:33:03
Jacob
work on is definitely that keeping calm in in moments like that, you know, you might not have had the best sleep or you might be beginning to fatigue or you might not have got your feeling right, there's a number of things that you might be getting cramps, there's a number of things that could happen, so um yeah, I really Very fortunate, recently a sports psychologist reached out and I'm speaking to them at the moment and talking through some bits that's been really useful.
00:33:31
Jacob
um And yeah, just just beginning to kind of start that process of building a team around me, whether it's a sports psychologist or, um you know, the nutrition ah guys at Precision Fuel Hydration, they've been great, giving me loads of information. So I've got a pretty good team around me going into this. um And yeah, just just hopeful, not just for this race, but for all of the races over the next few years, that that makes a big difference.
00:33:56
ukrunchat
Yeah. So any kind of tips you can share with us from from the psychologist that might be helpful to hear.
00:34:03
Jacob
Yes, yeah, yeah. We were speaking today about, i won't necessarily share the exact conversation, ah but we were speaking today about um perhaps happy memories and and nice moments that you can kind of lean on in those difficult moments.
00:34:09
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:34:18
Jacob
It might just be one or two words that you um could think of to remind yourself or say, or um for instance, I personally could have them written on a bottle um in the elite field and you know at certain points in the race I'm going to be having those bottles on the side and I could pick one up at a table and and have that written on there um and yeah you just even even just having those words come to mind it is something that I've used previously as a junior athlete and again it was a sports psychologist just on a one-off session as ah as ah as a kind of under 23 that mentioned that to me having a few words to go to when things begin to get tough but the thing that has been apparent in these latest sessions is that those words don't necessarily mean and they anything to me anymore because they were things that I said when I was you know 21 22 and
00:35:11
Jacob
you know It's almost a decade since and since I had those. um So yeah, perhaps some time time for some fresh sayings or some fresh um vocab to go to during those difficult moments.
00:35:22
ukrunchat
yeah but Yeah, we all change, don't we? So yeah, hopefully you can find what works for you.
00:35:26
Jacob
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we were we were talking about bows. just yeah Just memories and and um I think straight away, you know when you say something aloud and you both just like get this really good feeling about it.
00:35:41
Jacob
um So yeah, I've definitely come up with a few a couple of things so far.
00:35:46
ukrunchat
Yeah, so are they to get you through kind of those latter really tough stages?
00:35:51
Jacob
Yeah, I think so. Keeping calm.
00:35:53
ukrunchat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:53
Jacob
um You know, it could be that it it helps you to remind you that that that next mile, sometimes when you're in a really difficult moment in training and in racing, um the very next mile, you can feel good for another two or three.
00:36:06
Jacob
You just had to get through that mile. um And, you know, I've really been conscious of recognizing when that's happening in training this time going forward. Yeah.
00:36:15
ukrunchat
yeah
00:36:17
Jacob
And knowing that that's going to happen, and I've i've practiced it in half marathon races, I've practiced it in training, and just just thinking, whether it's a word that reminds you of that, or you telling yourself, you know, the next mile, you could be feeling really good again. So just, you know, all sorts can happen, can't it? You could start to get a funny feeling on one of your knees, or you can start to get a stomach cramp, or your mind can start racing. And yeah, it's just sometimes the very next mile can be the next two miles of of bliss, you know?
00:36:49
ukrunchat
Yeah, yeah, it's it's kind of unknown, isn't it? I know Paula Radcliffe, she famously used to just count, didn't she? She'd count just to get through. She knew how many, how she counts like a hundred to get to a mile or something.
00:36:57
Jacob
Yeah.
00:37:01
ukrunchat
and
00:37:01
Jacob
Yeah.
00:37:02
ukrunchat
and then you've kind of forgotten the pain, haven't you?
00:37:04
Jacob
Yeah, exactly. Just something to kind of take your take your mind off it and um keep yourself calm and and as relaxed as possible.
00:37:11
ukrunchat
yeah
00:37:12
Jacob
It's kindnna it's going to hurt, obviously, but um I do think you can suddenly get yourself back into um that flow state, perhaps people might call it now.
Race Day Planning
00:37:23
Jacob
Yeah.
00:37:24
ukrunchat
Yeah. So can you talk us through kind of what what the week leading up to London Marathon will look like for you in terms of kind of not necessarily training, but kind of what what the fueling might look like and the hydration and and what that'll look like during the race?
00:37:40
Jacob
Yes, yeah. so like I say, I will go to the Elite Hotel 72 hours before and I collect a load of bottles, which they give you in the Elite Field.
00:37:44
ukrunchat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:51
Jacob
ah You can place eight of them around the course, so one every five kilometres. And in those, I'm going to be putting around 600 millilitres of... Sorry, the mix that I make is 600 millilitres of water um with four scoops of the...
00:38:10
Jacob
carb mix, just the carb mix that Precision Fuel and Hydrate offer, um and then two scoops of their carb slash sodium mix. So six scoops of powder in total, but four scoops of one product, two scoops of another.
00:38:25
Jacob
um And I mix that into 600 milliliters of water. distribute roughly 165 milliliters of it um into each bottle if I need to make up a little more mix I make up a little more mix and redistribute that into all eight bottles um so yeah that'll be something that I'll be doing I'll also be sellotaping a gel a 30 gram gel to each one and then decorating the top of the bottles with um electric pipe pipe I always forget the name of them but uh you basically create these handles to make it easy a pipe cleaner yeah that's it so you you put those on the top of your bottles to make yours as identifiable as possible on that table so you can just run yeah i mean people go with flowers off the top of it people do all sorts um
00:38:58
ukrunchat
Oh, like pipe cleaner type thing. Yeah. Yeah,
00:39:07
ukrunchat
yeah because you've got seconds, haven't you, to identify it? Yeah.
00:39:16
Jacob
Yeah, maybe I could come up with something a bit more. Yeah. But yeah, so I'll have all of that. um My pre-race meal is Nando's.
00:39:29
ukrunchat
Oh, right not too spicy, I hope.
00:39:32
Jacob
Not too spicy. No, no. Medium, medium spice, tried and tested. um So Nando's I'll have. the peri fries and some rice. So it's a very carb and protein based meal.
00:39:46
Jacob
um Some nutritionists might shoot me down for that. But I yeah, like I say, it seems to work for me. um
00:39:52
ukrunchat
Yes.
00:39:53
Jacob
And I am planning to spend um so I'm on Easter holidays. for two weeks from next week. um So for the final three weeks going into it, I've got a two-week window actually where I can do a bit of research into, and I know this sounds a bit mad that perhaps an elite runner and or somebody who's in the elite field is is even at this stage having a think, but i'm I'm going to think about What foods specifically am I going to have certainly in that final kind of 48 hours and I'm going to do a trial run? Um,
00:40:28
ukrunchat
Oh yeah, that's that'll be helpful.
00:40:31
Jacob
Yeah, I mean, I might not do the full carb load, but I'll certainly just test how the foods react in my stomach.
00:40:38
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:40:38
Jacob
And um i mean, I really have a pretty good idea.
00:40:39
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:40:41
Jacob
I've i've done a lot of the kind of um breakfast, lunch, dinner bits. But because it is a full carb load, I still need to have a little play with perhaps what some of those snacks might be and um those bits in the middle of the day and everything.
00:40:55
Jacob
you know, it's, it's, it's an incredible amount of food that they recommend you get through, isn't it? It's, yeah.
00:41:00
ukrunchat
it's Yeah, it is. Because you've got to really top up those carb levels, haven't you?
00:41:03
Jacob
Um, yeah.
00:41:06
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:41:06
Jacob
Um, yeah. The, the thing that'll be interesting over the next four five years is where does the sport go in terms of, will people still be leaning heavily on carb loading or or will there be perhaps a greater focus around the kind of carbs you take in on the day?
00:41:23
ukrunchat
yeah
00:41:23
Jacob
um certainly obviously there's there's the boom of the gels but again it seems that even in the liquid form um there seems you know super digestible really easy to take in you're kind of getting the sodium the kind of electrolyte element and as well as some carbs so perhaps running companies are going to be produc producing packs that runners at all levels can wear um hydration packs that runners at all levels can wear um And perhaps even marathons globally might start to put a bit more time into the types of stations that are around the course for athletes.
00:42:01
Jacob
um Because like I do think that the science is perhaps leaning towards, um as well as the gels, just that that that liquid carb hydration supplement.
00:42:12
Jacob
um Yeah, so it's interesting to see where that goes.
00:42:15
ukrunchat
Yeah, I know London Rarathon does have, I think it has kind of four stations where you can pick up kind of electrolytes on the way if you're in kind of the the non-elite field.
00:42:24
Jacob
Yeah.
00:42:24
ukrunchat
So you can get sports drinks. So, yeah.
00:42:27
Jacob
Yeah.
00:42:27
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:42:28
Jacob
Like I say, it's just the carb element to it that is so digestible.
00:42:31
ukrunchat
Yeah. yeah
00:42:33
Jacob
um You know, when I trained with Phil Sessaman last year, who obviously is an incredible runner, you know, ran two, I think he's run sub 208 now for the marathon. um You know, and I'm in a very fortunate position that somebody like that would come and train with me and some of my club mates.
00:42:48
Jacob
And the first thing I noticed was that he wasn't really using the gels much at all.
00:42:55
ukrunchat
Right.
00:42:55
Jacob
um He was very much focused around the the liquid hydration with with the carb and sodium mix.
00:42:59
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:43:02
Jacob
So um I do think it's going to be interesting over the next however many years to see where the science goes with that. But certainly, you know, for the time being, you'd be safe with taking on, you know, a carb gel every half an hour or so and and making sure you you don't miss those electrolyte stations.
00:43:14
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:43:19
Jacob
I do think that that makes a big difference.
00:43:20
ukrunchat
Yeah. Yeah, I think it does. I think the issue with the the drinks is that for the general runner who, because you can obviously place your bottles around the course, can't you in advance? It's a lot to carry, isn't it, with liquid.
00:43:31
ukrunchat
Yeah, so I think that's why gels are kind of the preferred option at the moment.
00:43:31
Jacob
Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:36
ukrunchat
But like you say, things could change, couldn't they?
00:43:37
Jacob
Yeah.
Injury Prevention and Sponsorship
00:43:39
Jacob
Who knows? Precision fuel and hydration might have a couple of stations with their sodium and carb mix dotted around courses in a few years to come. Who knows?
00:43:47
ukrunchat
Yeah, we'll wait we'll wait and see.
00:43:50
Jacob
yeah
00:43:50
ukrunchat
and I did want to touch upon kind of what you do outside of running to keep yourself injury free, if that's okay. do you you You obviously kind of look look after yourself and do a lot more than just run.
00:44:01
Jacob
Yeah.
00:44:04
ukrunchat
What does that look like for you?
00:44:04
Jacob
Yeah. um I think that it needs to be individualised to you but I know that my feet are something that flare up, whether it's my plantar fascia and the kind of plantar fasciitis that you might get, um even just um perhaps instability in and around the ankle joints.
00:44:15
ukrunchat
yeah
00:44:28
Jacob
even tight metatarsals i think these are quite common injuries in runners and if you can i mean a really simple step that i think more runners should do is mean i i just do 25 calf raises to save time i do them on both feet um and also to stop me fatiguing or or getting overly tight so i do um 25 calf raises with 45 seconds rest. And I just repeat that three times, so 75 in total.
00:44:59
Jacob
And I do that almost daily. And I do notice that if I drop off and I perhaps have a week or two away on holiday or um you know perhaps I'm feeling a little more relaxed because I haven't got big races coming up, that if I'm still training and running in that period,
00:45:15
Jacob
I do begin to feel my arches tighten up again. i do begin to feel kind of some instability in my my ankles or in and around the metatarsal joint. So um yeah, it's it's um simple things like that.
00:45:31
Jacob
I think that you should be loading through the calf muscles and and your feet because you know you're spending so much time training on them. So if you can find some exercises that work for you, find some exercises that fit into your routine, um something that you could even do when you're brushing your teeth just to take care of your your your your um health in that area, your your calf, your feet, your ankles, um your plantar.
00:46:01
Jacob
um And i do some push-ups twice a week. So I take that quite seriously. I've been doing it for... I mean, it might sound silly, I know just a few push-ups, but I've i've been doing twice a week, every week for about five years now.
00:46:17
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:46:17
Jacob
um And I think that that, again, takes care of the the core element to my running.
00:46:22
ukrunchat
Yeah. ah yeah
00:46:23
Jacob
um And it's just something that's almost become an ingrained habit. I know the days that I do it. um Sometimes I do it more. Sometimes I do it less, but mostly and and almost definitely actually for for five years, i've pretty much done it twice a week um every week.
00:46:40
Jacob
So, yeah, I do. I do have this feeling that that has made a difference.
00:46:45
ukrunchat
yeah
00:46:46
Jacob
i also know the stretches that work for me. So if i start to get a tight stretch, When I say stretches, I'm more leaning to yoga, very light yoga exercises.
00:46:53
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:46:56
Jacob
And I use Yoga With Adrienne on YouTube because it's free and really accessible and also great for a beginner like myself in something like yoga. um And um yeah, just just pick an area.
00:47:09
Jacob
She's got some great stretches. And you know if you're having some difficulty in that area, just some tightness, um again, just Now I know the stretches, I don't necessarily need to use the videos as much, but certainly I lean on things like stretches where I'm just moving a little bit more. So perhaps you could call it yoga at times. um And i kind of do that on a more of an ad hoc basis when I feel I need it.
00:47:35
Jacob
um Yeah.
00:47:36
ukrunchat
Yeah, but no, that's really great advice. It's it's finding what where your weaknesses are, isn't it? And then finding something that will help and being, it's go back to consistency, aren't we? Create a good habit with it.
00:47:46
Jacob
Yeah.
00:47:49
Jacob
Yeah, um you know, because we've all got my my training mate, he's he has a, um you know, he's run 215 for the marathon, Alex Lepetra.
00:47:56
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:47:57
Jacob
um And, you know, he works full time as a solicitor and spends a lot of his time, obviously sat down working at the desk and and for that reason can get tightness in and around his hips.
00:48:04
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:48:09
Jacob
And he has some things that he tells me that he does. And and I know that he does. um And I think his actually is more centered around getting on a foam roller. and And I don't necessarily do that because I don't find that I need to. But, um yeah, there is some some degree of variation depending on you who you are and what you do
00:48:28
ukrunchat
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, thank you. That's really helpful. um So, yeah, so all all the very best with London. I do have one final question. What shoes will you be wearing? I've got to ask. we We love our shoes. Yeah.
00:48:43
Jacob
Right. Right. I do you need to say that Soar, S-O-A-R, Soar Running um sponsor me and I'm very fortunate to receive some sponsorship from them.
00:48:48
ukrunchat
yeah
00:48:54
Jacob
um And they do give me a um small fund to help pay for things like trainers. They don't personally offer for trainers, but they do give me a small fund to put towards trainers.
00:49:06
Jacob
I am torn between, ah the moment, the Adios Pro 4s, the most recent model of the Adios Pro. I've had some really successful races in those. um But then I've also been very fortunate to receive a pair of New Balance.
00:49:18
Jacob
um I don't know the name of the shoe, which is terrible of me, but they sent me a pair of the New Balance Elite shoes, and I'm going to try them out this Saturday um because...
00:49:29
Jacob
you know, the guy there who works on the community side of things has been so good in sending me a pair. If they feel good in the next few workouts, um you could see me in a pair of New Balance. So, yeah, it'll be between the two.
00:49:39
ukrunchat
Okay, yeah. I was about to say, Justin, that you've not made the decision yet then.
00:49:43
Jacob
Yeah.
00:49:45
ukrunchat
So when will that decision be made?
00:49:45
Jacob
Yeah. well yeah um in the next 10 days or so. like So this this this Saturday and then a session midweek next week, the the New Balances have got a couple of sessions to to prove their worth to me and then we'll see. Luckily, luckily this Saturday's workout, you know I don't want to make out that it's... um It's something I don't take seriously. this this This Saturday's workout is almost the full length of time that I'd be running in the marathon. Not not quite, but almost. And um there is three very specific marathon-paced efforts in there, so I will get a good feel for the shoot.
00:50:21
ukrunchat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:50:22
Jacob
Yeah.
00:50:23
ukrunchat
well Well, we'll be looking out for you then at London Marathon to figure out which which shoes you've opted for.
Final Advice and Conclusion
00:50:29
Jacob
yeah Mystery. Yeah, keeping it a mystery. Yeah.
00:50:32
ukrunchat
oh Thank you so much. Could you please leave us with one piece of advice that you'd give to runners trying to improve the marathon times?
00:50:42
Jacob
Yes, the one piece of advice I would give is try to run your session and your long run each week and be as consistent as possible with that.
00:50:55
Jacob
you know Make sure you're you're doing those two things. so definitely a session that's interval based, some shorter intervals that are quicker than your marathon pace, and then um making sure to also include your long run at the weekend I think that whether it's a three day week or a four day week, you can still do some really powerful um training and and work around just making sure you have that interval session, perhaps midweek and then finding time for that long run at the weekend. And I'm sure you'll you'll find time for that third or fourth run, but, um you know, or however many other runs around it. But yeah, the the overriding feeling that I have is that those two things can't be missed and try to hit those week to week.
00:51:40
ukrunchat
Yeah, ah that's great advice. Well, thank you so much, Jacob, for your time. It's been really interesting chatting to you.
00:51:47
Jacob
Thank you. Yeah. No, I've loved, loved talking. So yeah, thank you so much.
00:51:50
ukrunchat
yeah and we wish you all the very best in at the London Marathon. We hope that everybody out there has enjoyed this episode. and Where can people follow you, Jacob, on social media if they want to find out more?
00:52:01
Jacob
Jacob Allen on the school PE on Instagram. So yeah.
00:52:04
ukrunchat
There you go. We'll pop that in the show notes and we will see you on the next episode.