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Lisa McNally | Steve Cram
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In this episode Michelle is joined by Director of Public Health for Worcestershire, Lisa McNally and Steve Cram to talk about the Wythall & Hollywood Fun Run which takes place on Sunday 25th June.
Michelle, Lisa and Steve chat about:
- The importance of community led events like the Wythall and Hollywood Fun Run for improving public health.
- Who accesses these events.
- The social and mental health benefits of encouraging local running communities.
- Steve Cram's advice for training for your first 10k, improving your time, and injury prevention.
- Don't miss Steve's "best bit of advice" for runners (33 minutes in).
You can find more information about the event on https://wythallhollywoodfunrun.org.uk
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Transcript
Introduction to UK Run Chat Podcast
00:00:00
Lisa
you
00:00:01
UKRunChat
Welcome to this episode of the UK Run Chat podcast.
The Withel and Hollywood Fun Run's Community Impact
00:00:05
UKRunChat
Today we're talking about how local event the Withel and Hollywood Fun Run is doing so much more than getting people running, it's helping the people in the local community move more and connect with each
Guest Introductions: Lisa McNally and Steve Cram
00:00:16
UKRunChat
other.
00:00:16
UKRunChat
I'm joined by Lisa McNally, Director of Public Health at Worcestershire County Council and a man who needs no introduction, Steve Cram, who's going to be giving us some tips on running your first 10k or achieving a PB in the distance.
00:00:32
UKRunChat
So hi both, thank you for joining us.
00:00:35
Lisa
Hello.
00:00:35
Steve
Morning.
Event Experience: A Party-Like Atmosphere
00:00:37
UKRunChat
and Can we start with, so we chatted last year on the podcast because it was the first kind of iteration of of this event, wasn't it? um So did you want to kind of start Lisa and just tell us a little bit about how it all went last year?
00:00:54
Lisa
It was just a fantastic day all round. i go to a lot of running races and always thoroughly enjoy myself. But this one really just did feel like a party from start to finish.
00:01:09
Lisa
We had such a diverse range of runners. We had our speedy guys and girls on the front who I think came around the 5K in 15 minutes or so. But we also had ah big contingent of people who for whom it was their first 5K or their first 10K.
00:01:30
Lisa
And for many, their first big event, And for that reason, there was a lot of positive emotion when people come over the line, an awful lot of cheering, an awful lot of support.
00:01:42
Lisa
And i was buzzing for days afterwards.
00:01:47
UKRunChat
Sounds like a great event.
The Event's Local and Grand Success
00:01:48
UKRunChat
we you Were you there, Steve?
00:01:49
Steve
Yeah, no, it was fabulous. um Yeah, we were really pleased as organisers. Our first number one thing is obviously get everybody around safely and and enjoy and and then the next bit is you'll have they enjoyed it. And as Lisa said, the atmosphere was brilliant.
00:02:06
Steve
um It was a beautiful day, which which which is always helpful. um But I think, you know, the the thing that shone through for me was, You know, this this is a, it's funny, it's like a small, big event, if you know what I mean. What I mean by that, it was for the local community.
00:02:24
Steve
and But as Lisa says, it was the first time you're trying to give people ah a sense of what it's like to be in ah in a big running event. So it's quite hard to get that those two things um to come through in the sense that people still know it's their event in their their town or if you know they they're they're from there.
00:02:43
Steve
But just this sense of it you know it's it's the kind of event which they can hopefully aspire to going forward to do more of it on a bigger stage. And I hope that we manage to do that. ah youre the the Certainly the the the sense of a kind of local community event absolutely shone through for us. And it was you know that and that includes volunteers, um the venue, you know it was it was just great fun. So um i always judge it by my crew.
00:03:11
Steve
You know, i always I always look at their faces and if they're if they've got smiles on their faces and they're having a good time, um then I know the event's going well. And, you know, because sometimes I can get a bit wrapped up in it all and what's going on.
00:03:23
Steve
And I know I remember sitting on the grass afterwards when most of the runners had kind of left and we were starting to do our tidy up. The guys were dead chilled and they were happy and they'd loved it and they'd had a good time.
00:03:34
Steve
So that that's always a great measure for me that we've had a good event.
00:03:38
UKRunChat
Yeah, I saw some lovely photos from the event and there there was one of kind of a family and they'd all taken part. Did you have lots of families there on the day for your fun run?
Families on Track: Encouraging Family Participation
00:03:48
Lisa
Yes, we did. Well, there's a good reason for that is because Steve's team on top of the 10K and 5K put on ah the Families on Track um event, which Steve, I believe, was originated by Paula, Paula Radcliffe.
00:04:06
Lisa
And yeah, is that right?
00:04:07
Steve
Yeah.
00:04:08
Lisa
It was her.
00:04:09
Steve
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:09
Lisa
It's her team.
00:04:10
Steve
One of those things where we sitting over a glass of wine somewhere with Paula and we were chatting about it and she was she was kind of her kids. and Actually, funny enough, it few years ago now and her daughter was running her first London Marathon this
00:04:22
UKRunChat
Thank you.
00:04:22
Steve
um in a couple of weeks. But yeah, it was about, oh, I'd love to be to run with the kids a bit more in events. You know, it's always, there's a kid's event and there's a, and actually, you know, Rafa's son at the time was a bit younger and he doesn't really want to run 5K and that's too far. And so anyway, Families on Track was a way of trying to come up with a way which your families, and it doesn't matter what the family unit is, but three to five people who are loosely connected, let's say, you know, as a family, um,
00:04:50
Lisa
Thank you.
00:04:50
Steve
And it's just like a continuous relay. And we've found it's... It's sometimes hard to quite explain it to people, but when they see it and they take part in it, they have a lot of fun and everything from four-year-olds to 94-year-olds.
00:05:03
Steve
And it's... you they Shortest distance is 250 metres, which you know even little toddlers can manage. um And the longest is like either 800 or a K. So a lot fun.
00:05:16
Steve
We did one of those at Whithell. I'm hoping this year that now that people have seen it, um there'll be a bit more. Yeah, you we we'll take part in that. So, yes, we had a quite a few families who maybe mum or dad ran in the five or the 10K and then hung around and took part in the families on track with with their with their kids afterwards. So it was great.
00:05:35
Lisa
Yeah, ah the best way I could describe the Families on Track of event is organized chaos.
00:05:36
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:05:42
Lisa
And Steve was the organizer in the middle with a pair of funny sunglasses on. And these families and, of course, everyone watching them as well.
00:05:42
Steve
ah
00:05:49
Steve
right.
00:05:52
Lisa
having a great time. There is nothing funnier than seeing a 40-year-old dad trying to out sprint seven-year-old girl ah to the finish. you know It was just full of competitive dads, which was hilarious.
00:06:06
Lisa
um And the races themselves were, for me, really special because we knew we'd done all the work beforehand organising numerous Couch to five k And we gave big discounts to those people who were coming through Couch to 5K.
00:06:27
Lisa
And so there were so many people there you could see um achieving something really special. You normally see a few people at an event doing that, but you literally see hundreds of people coming over the line close to tears, hugging their friends and family.
00:06:38
Steve
and
00:06:47
Lisa
was just marvelous. it It made it worth all the, a lot of work that goes into these things. And luckily we had a great team with Steve and Events of the North, but it made every hour of preparation worth it.
00:07:03
UKRunChat
So do you know how many people on the day were doing their first event? Do you have that data at all?
00:07:10
Lisa
We don't have exact numbers, but we think at least a quarter of the runners, maybe even a third, were either doing their first event or coming back from a long break from running.
00:07:25
Lisa
um We had a lot of people who said that, you know, they love to run. They love to run with their friends. They love the social part
Making the Event Welcoming for New Runners
00:07:34
Lisa
of it. But they've always been too scared to enter, quote, a proper event for fear they'll be last, for fear they'll be too slow somehow.
00:07:43
Steve
right.
00:07:44
Lisa
And Steve's team and our team made really clear in the marketing that that wouldn't be the case here. um You know, you can take your time. You can even walk around it if you like.
00:07:57
Lisa
um In fact, I believe the people at the back of the pack with the tail walkers were having a real party. It was a great place to be. So there was no pressure to do well.
00:08:08
Lisa
So I'd say we had at least 100, 150 people. who come into that bracket of newbies or back from a long time off.
00:08:21
UKRunChat
Yeah, that that's wonderful. So you talked there about some of the barriers for helping people get active. So what is it specifically about a community event like Withel that helps people overcome them? Does it just feel more familiar for them or is it something else?
00:08:36
Lisa
I think it was the messaging we did At the start, I think, you know, Steve did a lot of great PR for us as well as our own people. And we made it clear, you know, we really looked people in the eye, if you like, through the marketing and said, you'll be okay at this event.
00:08:53
Lisa
You'll have a great time. There won't be any pressure. So we made that clear. I think the local nature of the event, there was like a a bit of suppose a country fair going on. You could describe the event village as a,
00:09:06
Lisa
It wasn't sort of full of big brands. It was actually ah the local ice cream guy, ah other stalls that were just selling local produce.
00:09:17
Lisa
It had that country ah village fair event or face.
00:09:19
Steve
um
00:09:24
Lisa
And, yeah, it was a very welcoming atmosphere.
00:09:30
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's lovely. what
00:09:30
Steve
Yeah, I think it's important to kind of, you know, when when when you, you know, when you're putting events on, as we do these days, we know the shift that we've seen in the last 10, 12 years, inevitably, when I first started organizing events, you know, my
00:09:43
Lisa
Thank you.
00:09:46
Steve
I guess yeah what I'm rooted in is kind of the front that youre and and thinking about, that's kind of fast course and people want to run. And then over the years, um with all due respect to the good runners, you know we've gravitated much more to, ah yeah know and and and and that we'll probably talk a little bit more about the running boom that's continuing. And COVID did give us all a bit of a break in that. But yeah,
00:10:10
Steve
you know What I find now is the social aspect of these events is huge because a lot of people are running in little groups, social groups. They meet at a coffee shop and go for it. It's not really the clubs. And your my day was the running you the athletic clubs, the running clubs and everything else.
00:10:29
Steve
So there's a lot of social running going on, which which is great. So you have to reflect that in an event as well. You have to give people the chance, as Lisa said, just to have a bit of fun, run with their friends, um you know, and and before and after, try and make it so, yeah, they want to grab a cup of coffee or get an ice cream from the ice cream man or whatever it is. so So we also are trying now at all of our events to...
00:10:54
Steve
to kind of give the the um run all the attention it needs, but everything around it, run the wrap around bit, ah the kind of before and afterwards, just to make sure that people um can arrive, meet their mates, get ready to run and maybe chill out if it is a nice day as it was for for half an hour or an hour afterwards. So that's it's a big part of running now.
00:11:18
Steve
And yeah we we we really want to continue to reflect that. And and you know, in Withall, you've got a bit of a head start because i said, we're we're beginning with local communities and local local groups and things.
00:11:32
Steve
But for those who, um for whom they're new to it, then it's just kind of showing that it's very relaxed, as Lisa said, it's, it's you know, we're trying to really to get the message across that this is for anyone and everyone.
00:11:45
Steve
um And if you want to walk, it's fine. You know, we've got the roads closed. um You know, it's it's a safe environment. And we we want people to come in and and sample something perhaps they haven't done before.
00:12:01
UKRunChat
Yeah, do you and what you see as the biggest motivator to keep people running after the race? Is is that being measured? Is that something you can help you find out?
00:12:10
Steve
it's It's an interesting question that and I'll get to let Lisa come in because I've been challenging a little bit back to, um I mean, li Lisa works in public health and well aware that you know someone turning up for the first time is brilliant.
00:12:24
Steve
We've made a start.
00:12:24
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:12:25
Steve
The long term health benefits are about the sustainability of that. And you know there's a couple of other local authorities who work with who've been a bit focused all the time. How many new runners you How many new runners?
00:12:37
Steve
And I'm kind of going, that's great. But actually, I also want to try and find out the journey that people are going on and have gone on. And are they still doing it eight years later?
00:12:49
Steve
you know, or five years later? Because that's actually, it's in my view, a bit more important. we've We've got to get those entry doors open. But then after that,
00:13:00
Steve
It's how do we keep them engaged? And I think you keep people engaged by having quite a lot of events, people do like events. It's why parkrun is very, but because people can go right every Saturday, or if I can't make every Saturday, I know. i know So events are really important and making those events enjoyable and safe. So people can kind of punctuate their year with, I'm gonna do that, then I'm gonna do that, then gonna, and not that feeds back into, therefore, I'm going to run two, three times a week or whatever it might be.
00:13:32
Steve
so that's really important to have those small goals, for people to aim at, which are part of a wider, whether that's just a general, I'm keeping fit or I'm training for a marathon or whatever it might be.
00:13:43
Steve
So, ah ah or I want to get a bit quicker. So that's, yeah we've got we've got to make sure our events are reflecting all of those ah journeys, different journeys that perhaps people are on. But you're right, for me, haven't flipped.
00:13:59
Steve
i't flipped We've got to get people involved, got to get people to start, but it's also really important that they keep going.
00:14:05
Lisa
And that's one of the advantages, I would say, of local public health teams like ours being the organisers and and the commissioners, if you like, of this. Because if you think about Worcestershire, we have, as I said, dozens of counter to 5Ks, which we help with funding and we help with support and promotion. So we've got that network of the entry level.
00:14:31
Lisa
Then we've got an event like Withall Fun Run, which is often people's first taste of a big event. Then we've got another event organized by Stephen's team, which is the Worcester City Run in the autumn.
00:14:49
Lisa
And people can literally within Worcestershire and our series events go from couch to 5K to 10K or from 10K to half marathon.
00:15:00
Lisa
all within the space of a year. And in between those events, we make sure we keep in touch with people. We keep supporting the the newbie running groups. We keep making sure that running and indeed physical activity in general is on the agenda.
00:15:20
Lisa
And I could introduce you to numerous people I know who entered the couch to 5K last year did the 5K, then went on to do the 10K at Worcester City Run.
00:15:35
Lisa
And one couple I know went up to half marathon and they're still running today. We make sure that we connect people back into the clubs, not just the um the the normal athletics clubs or running clubs, but those clubs which are maybe more designed to give people um a more entry level or supportive experience.
00:16:02
Lisa
We have a group called Happy Feet in Worcester, which is just phenomenal. um In Bromsgrove, we have a group ah called Running with Abby because they run and they're led by a lady called Abby.
00:16:14
Lisa
And these things provide that sustained um pathway in into running, that pathway that's sustained over time that Steve's talking about. And the key ingredient The key ingredient is social.
00:16:29
Lisa
You know, when when the nights start getting darker and a bit colder, what's going to get you out your house after work? It's not to improve your 5K time normally.
00:16:40
Lisa
It's certainly not going to be to lose weight or even anything to do with health. It's to go and see your mates because you have a real laugh while you're running around your roof.
00:16:52
Lisa
That's the key ingredient that we try to emphasize.
00:16:56
UKRunChat
Yeah, I love that. That's so important, isn't it i think that's something we forget that running can be such a social thing and that that interaction is really, really good for us.
Running's Mental Health Benefits
00:17:08
Lisa
And that's one reason why we find running is so good for mental health as well.
00:17:08
UKRunChat
and
00:17:16
Lisa
It's a really robust evidence base around the link between physical activity and better mental well-being. It's been proven time and time again to be a ah real protective factor against worsening mental health.
00:17:29
Lisa
And I'm a big believer that, yeah, there are some physiological components to that. But the main ingredient is it puts people in touch with positive people who have a shared goal and support each other to achieve that goal.
00:17:36
Steve
Thank you.
00:17:46
Lisa
Friendships are made, and that is a real boost to mental health. ah reducing social isolation, boosting positive social connection is one of our key priorities as a public health team.
00:17:59
Lisa
You'll find that anywhere in the country. And Steve and his team and the events we do with them help us achieve that.
00:18:07
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's wonderful. Have you anything to add to that about mental health and social aspect?
00:18:10
Steve
yeah Yeah, you know, um ah yeah i put myself in that category now. i mean, i you I don't run, I'm not running again at the minute, but only temporarily, but yeah. um
00:18:21
Lisa
Thank you.
00:18:21
Steve
yeah I got injured a year and a half, just over a year ago, I got injured, torn meniscus. and And at one point it was looking bad enough that the docs were sort saying, the docs, it sounded like I'm going to sit in a, you know, um but he's after scanning everything, he said, Steve, you know, this we can operate on this, and but we're going to have take some your meniscus away and you might not be able to run again.
00:18:43
Steve
And I remember thinking, ah came away from that. So I didn't have the operation. The alternative was just to leave it for quite a while, which I have done. And I've been able to start running again. Great. so um And I realized how important running was to me as a person, but also just my, I have a really busy lifestyle. I travel a lot. you know It's stressy.
00:19:07
Steve
I've got an events company. and you know I work in broadcasting. if my year is flicking around backwards and forwards, and I like that and I love it. But running's my my my pressure gauge that that allows me to, um it sounds daft, doesn't it? you know um And I'm um umm not as fit as I used to be. So half time when I'm running, I'm like everybody else going, oh, this is too hard.
00:19:29
Steve
and But without it, I really struggle. So even though I can only run two, three times a week now, that's enough. That's good. I can do bits of other things as well. so But it is a mental health thing for me now. much more Gone are the days where I can think about...
00:19:46
Steve
You know, and I'm not in i not that interested in, you know, the over sixty five s record for 10K. I'm not even going to go anywhere near that either. So I've got, so for what is running for me? Well, running is just that.
00:19:57
Steve
It's me going out, hopefully, you know, um and and um just getting that half an hour, 45 minutes, whatever it is, where it's just me and running.
00:20:10
Steve
and and And it's a real, real, real switch off for me in a good way. And so, yeah, it's, that's what it does for me now. You know, that that's what it gives me. and There's a little bit of, you know, trying to keep some physical wellbeing in there as well, but it's it's a lot about my ah mental wellbeing.
00:20:30
Lisa
Yeah, I always think that anxiety, stress, low mood are really slow runners because whenever I go for a run, by the time I get to mile one, they're not with me anymore.
00:20:44
Lisa
I've left them behind. And that is always one certain part of running for me.
00:20:46
Steve
Thank you.
00:20:52
Lisa
I might not always perform the way I wanted to. might not always get that ah marathon time that I hope to achieve. But I always feel grace after a run. That's pretty much guaranteed.
00:21:04
Lisa
Even the runs where I might fall over or get lost or get soaked, I always feel grace afterwards. it's ah It's a certainty for me. And that's why I feel as a public health professional, so passionate about it, that, you know, we can sometimes find ourselves ruminating about what's going on in our lives.
Running as a Cost-Effective Public Health Tool
00:21:25
Lisa
We try to solve problems maybe that aren't solvable.
00:21:29
Lisa
Get out and be active. It's not a cure. It's, you know, especially for people living with maybe be serious mental illness, we would never advocate the physical activity as some sort of cure.
00:21:42
Lisa
But it certainly helps people manage day-to-day moods, day-to-day anxieties. And as said, brings them into touch with other people just like them with a shared goal.
00:21:54
Lisa
It's gold dust. In public health terms, it's easily the most cost-effective way of improving well-being in general.
00:22:03
Steve
Yeah, I think the thing about it is, you know, if you... I've read various things over the years, but, you know, there's a lot of stuff about small wins. Small wins in our lives are are quite important, you know.
00:22:15
Steve
um And actually doing anything physical... is particularly as you get a bit older, is a small win because the alternative is you do nothing, you know, or or you sit and watch TV or you, you know, or whatever.
00:22:19
Lisa
Thanks.
00:22:27
Steve
So, and actually, so so any form of physical activity, just going for a walk, um you know, walking up the stairs rather than taking the lift, all these things are those little small wins which make you feel better about yourself.
00:22:40
Steve
And um that I think that's the key. And obviously going for run is is not everyone's able to do that to begin with, but but but the the steps towards that can... And I think the other thing as well, I always try and say to people,
00:22:56
Steve
If you go back to when you were a kid and you're running around the playground and you' know just just and there there's none life's worries and things as they're generally speaking, and yet and yeah most of us you would have been pretty active and and and running down, you know running ah i don't know, across a field to chase a ball or whatever, you wouldn't think end anything of it, right?
00:23:15
Steve
And then as we get into our teens and then for a lot of people, they get and your life takes over. and you get a job and you know maybe bring up family and all of us find yourself in your 30s and your 40s going up and i always say to people look yeah know If it's taken you 10 or 15 years to get out of shape, and out of don't expect to put it right in three months. right Be kind to yourself.
00:23:42
Steve
Give yourself the chance to kind of just gradually build all of that back up. um but You might never sprint around the playground like you did when you were eight or nine, but but you get my point. It's to say, look...
00:23:54
Lisa
Thank you.
00:23:54
Steve
if you take, if you take um years to get out of shape or out of habits and things, then you you need to just be patient and give yourself, be kind to yourself around the time it might take.
00:24:07
Steve
Um, and, and all that, you know, all that, um, the The reason we we obviously get passionate, I get passionate about running is I've come from that background. But if you looked at it from a purely, what are we asking people to do? we're asking people to, you know, make some little small changes in their in their lifestyle, set some little goals and targets, join in with other people. there's a lot of fun in it, but also it's very accessible.
00:24:31
Steve
Number one thing for me, running. I'm not asking you to buy a bike. I'm not even asking you to go to the swimming pool. I'm saying, you know, okay a pair of run a pair pair of trainers but it's actually accessible, really accessible and that's so important because for a lot of our communities when you start to talk about joining the gym and all those sort of things then people immediately start thinking well I'm not sure I can, not sure I can afford it. um So running running is is still that for me the easiest number one accessible physical activity you can do.
00:25:08
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's very sensible advice. Are there any plans to support any kind of specific communities this year join the race who are perhaps very inactive?
00:25:16
Lisa
Yeah, so we support um different communities in different ways.
00:25:17
UKRunChat
and
00:25:22
Lisa
So, yes, we are we're working on the Couch to 5K programs to get them ah to the event again, and I'm pleased to say they're all going to enter. We've been really pleased with the uptake so far.
00:25:36
Lisa
um In terms of getting communities running, we don't focus on any particular one.
00:25:39
Steve
um
00:25:42
Lisa
ah One thing i would say is we probably have a higher percentage of women at the With All event than you normally would at other events.
00:25:49
Steve
okay
00:25:51
Lisa
I'd say we probably have a slightly higher percentage women. We have slightly older people at the event, but we also have loads of kids as well. So there's not one community.
00:26:03
Lisa
The other community side of the event, of course, is that this is an event that raises money for local causes. So we've got the Whittle Community Association who will benefit from the proceeds.
00:26:15
Lisa
um We've had some really kind sponsors ah in the form of ah David Lloyd and the Bronze Grove Standard um who are going to be sponsoring the event. So that helps us put a lot more of the money back into good causes.
00:26:32
Lisa
And the headline charity is Acorn Hospice, um who are a local organization who you know, just to help, the most amazing thing for kids. It's a children's hospice and that gives it a really A real community feel as well.
00:26:52
Lisa
Other sponsors include local running groups. groups So um the vegan runners. The vegan runners in the Midlands have added some sponsorship and they're going to be sending a whole bunch of their runners along.
00:27:07
Lisa
And they're always good fun when they come because um they tend to come en masse, the vegan runners. You don't tend to get one or two. You get 10 or 20. And they're always, you know, lovely people who love the community side of the event as well. As you know, they're a national club.
00:27:26
Lisa
And, yeah, it's a mix of local people who wander along and just have a lovely afternoon with the kids from people who have traveled quite a few miles to get there.
00:27:39
Lisa
So, yeah, it's the Bronze Grove Standard did a um review of last year's race and I've kept it. I don't keep many newspaper cuttings and things because obviously as a director of public health you get quite a few of of the work you're doing but I kept this one because the photos, the atmosphere they managed to convey and that's why they are our media sponsor this time because they loved it so much.
00:27:52
Steve
Thank you.
00:28:07
Lisa
Bronze Grove being the local district. um They want to be part of it again.
00:28:15
UKRunChat
That's wonderful. So but just before we get into training for a ten k can you just remind us where With All is?
00:28:22
Lisa
um
00:28:23
UKRunChat
Because it's actually super accessible, isn't It's in a really accessible part of the country. Yeah.
00:28:27
Lisa
Good location. So first of all, to describe, what's actually Withall and Hollywood is is the the place we're running.
00:28:32
UKRunChat
no
00:28:36
Lisa
It's ah obviously not That Hollywood, it's in fact, who knew? Maybe i don't know whether people in the American Hollywood know there's a little village ah just outside of Bronze Grove in Birmingham named after them.
00:28:50
Lisa
So, yeah, with all the Hollywood fun run, it's just to the south of Birmingham. in the northern part of Brunsgrove. So very easily easily accessible from Birmingham, all over Worcestershire, all over the Midlands, really. it's It's a nice location because, yes, it's a countryside location and the race takes you along these beautiful country lanes, but it's close enough to our big urban areas for people to get there.
00:29:22
Lisa
We do have plenty of parking, but there's good transport links as well.
00:29:28
UKRunChat
Yeah, thank you. and So can we get practical now about kind of training to do? Let's focus on the 10K distance. and So it's it's quite a big quite a big distance when you've not run it before, isn't it,
Advice for New 10K Runners
00:29:42
UKRunChat
Steve? What what advice would you give to somebody?
00:29:45
Steve
Yeah, I mean, you know, I think, ah like you said, if you're starting out and you think you're 10K, six miles can can sound like a pretty daunting task. I think the thing I would say is that you particularly the Couch to 5K programme, you know,
00:30:02
Steve
which has been hugely um successful around the country. I think over 9 million people have now um signed up at some point and taken part in that. And I know ah you know that's a joint venture of the BBC and the NHS, and the next stage of that is being rolled out, which is that that which is about going further. It's it's called 5K and beyond, I think, is is what's going to be.
00:30:22
Steve
So, yeah, how do I go do tenke and And really, it's it's it's it is a bit of much of the same, if you like. So it's not like training for a half marathon or a marathon where you really need to start thinking about longer runs and things.
00:30:30
Lisa
Thank you.
00:30:36
Steve
I think with a 10K, you really don't need to worry too much about... um covering that distance in your training. You don't need to. So it is just really about continuing to develop what what they people are probably already doing.
00:30:51
Steve
And i'm I'm always very keen on giving people a nice varied program, which has a mix in there of of different types of running. And particularly at this stage where you're running 5Ks and 10Ks, where, you know, you're not just thinking, all right, I'm going to go for a long run on a Sunday.
00:31:09
Steve
And, you know, I'm going to So I would say that for most people, ah don't stress about, or'll cut your kind of you know, do i need how many times do need to run 10K and beyond in training? You don't really need to.
00:31:24
Steve
is it because you can cover. So let's say, for instance, I'm getting you to do some repetition work. So what we tend to is to break it all down and to say, look, if we want to do six or seven K worth of running, we might do something like, um,
00:31:42
Steve
four or five times ah half a kilometre, 500 metres, where you're running a bit quicker and then you're jogging maybe for five or six minutes and then you're doing another one. And before you know where you are, you've covered like 6K. Whereas if you say to people, ah we're going to do 6K today.
00:31:57
Steve
Whereas if you say we're going to do a half a kilometre running at an effort and then we're going to really jog and walk for a bit of recovery. So, rick and interval training is really important um i tend to say to people you if you can get into um find out and and there's lots of stuff online and um but i'm very wary you can probably tell here of me giving too much specific advice because everybody is different but um there are lots of different types of running assets so i love things like fartlek i love hill hill um hill sessions hills session
00:32:23
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:32:34
Steve
um I like people to get on the track if they possibly can, or if not a track, maybe a grass field where you can you can do reps based on the ah your what is one lap, what's half a lap, that sort of thing. um And for me, and and then, yes, you know you want to get on the roads and do because this this is a road race.
00:32:53
Steve
ah And if you can do things that where we're we're we're breaking that distance down and with recoveries and things. And yet every now and then you just want to do your steady runs. So for me, it's about, and this is the thing I always try and say to people. um And it' sometimes the people say means the best bit of advice that that I give.
00:33:15
Steve
Don't stress about the week, all right? in I don't know why it is in running, but we all use the week, right? Okay, how many times have you run in a week? You know, what have you done this week? How many miles do you do a week?
00:33:27
Steve
Stop that. So what I tend to do is to say, look, if we want to do three or four different types of running, And as I said, look at what they might be. Try and fit it into like a 10 day block, not a not a week And to have rest days.
00:33:42
Steve
You're going to have your your life is going to get in the way. going have to change because this is what happens. People say meant to go to the running club on Tuesday. and something happens and they get really stressed about it and they miss that day and then think, oh, you know, I missed Tuesday and how do I catch it?
00:33:58
Steve
Whereas if you're doing it over a 10-day block, it tends to be a bit easier to allow those little changes that that happen in in el in our lives. So in a month, that fits into three nice 10-day blocks, okay?
00:34:10
Steve
And you you just look for a little bit of progression through each month. So as I said, I haven't got time to, I haven't got time. ive I can't sit and give people specific things, but and worry less about running a distance in one run, but try and find ways to have time on your feet, vary the types of running, vary the pace of your running.
00:34:35
Steve
um And every now and then, maybe every fourth or fifth time you're going for a run, you can do that as a slightly longer run. is is that That's why you're trying to increase your distance. um For 10K, that's pretty much it. You do not have People say, oh, if I'm going to race 10K, I need to be doing some 10-mile runs.
00:34:56
Steve
You don't. OK, you'd be absolutely fine with with keeping your volume down. But but you're getting a lot of variation in the in the running. Because all all of that does is it also helps you to run a bit quicker as well.
00:35:11
Steve
You know, the first thing people start doing is once they can run, the next question is, i want to go faster. um And it's the problem with us is that when we, if we do the same type of running all the time, our bodies adapt very, very quickly to that.
00:35:28
Steve
And actually people say, oh, I've been running for four or five months and it's just not getting any easier. And I go, okay, what are you doing? Well, I go out three times a week and I've got this run that I do and it's, you know it's five or six K and I go, and I go, you do that all the time? Yeah.
00:35:42
Steve
You do it at the same pace? Yeah. And it's, what happens then is the body very quickly, you get a bit of improvement, then it adapts. you You hit a kind of, um, status quo with it and actually it starts to feel as hard as it did when you started so to get around that lots of varied pace lots of different types of running um and you'll find yourself being able to advance much much better
00:36:06
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's...
00:36:06
Lisa
What we do find is the move from 5K to 10K is a whole lot easier than the move from couch to 5K.
00:36:16
Lisa
And, you know, I was i was literally out on a couch to 5K run that we're doing at work at the moment.
00:36:17
Steve
yeah
00:36:25
Lisa
We call it desk to 5K, just a different name.
00:36:29
Steve
Yeah.
00:36:29
Lisa
and Same thing, though. And i was running along with some colleagues, a couple of female colleagues, and I was saying to them, you know, you can't run too slow at the moment.
00:36:44
Lisa
um we If you think, of yeah to go back to, I was quite taken by Steve's analogy of running around the playgrounds. Of course, I've got this image now of a little seven-year-old Steve Cramm.
00:36:55
UKRunChat
Bye.
00:36:55
Lisa
The teacher's looking out the window saying, well, that blonde kid, he's a bit quick, isn't he?
00:36:57
Steve
yeah
00:37:00
Lisa
But, yeah, it' so yeah ah when we run around the playground as kids, we have one gear, don't we, which is sprint. And i think I find when we get to adulthood, it's actually about learning to give yourself permission to run slow.
00:37:16
Lisa
And I was running along with these ladies and saying, you know, you're actually going too quick. And they were saying, but this is really slow. and I said, no, but actually slow down even more. Give yourself permission initially to run s slow.
00:37:29
Lisa
That was a key thing we find in Couch to 5K and especially moving from five k to ten k The pace will come. You'll find yourself being able to run faster at the same effort.
00:37:43
Lisa
And then as Steve quite rightly said, um once you get to that point where you can run for a sustained period and you look down and think, look at me, I'm running and I can still have a conversation, then have a play with it.
00:37:58
Lisa
Do a sprint to the next lamppost. Do something which mixes it up and shocks the body a little bit. And i think if you can keep training fun, then you'll do it and it will be successful.
00:38:12
Lisa
And as Steve said, variety is a key element to that.
Maintaining Joy and Motivation in Running
00:38:16
Lisa
But yet getting people to realize it's okay to run slow. And when you think you're running slow, try even running a little bit slower and just focus about that time on your feet.
00:38:29
Lisa
And before you know it, you look down at your watch or somebody else's watch And you'll have run six, seven K. And you won't be able to believe how good you still feel at the end of it.
00:38:41
Lisa
And that's a real light bulb moment that we see. When people arrive back at the end of the run, not on their knees. Because I think that's the other thing is that for for newer runners, especially, if you encourage people to run themselves to within an inch of their life every time they go out, they will come to dread the next run.
00:39:02
Lisa
and so they're more likely to start skipping runs Whereas if we get people to finish the warehouse still feeling quite good, still with a smile on their face, that gets them back again and again and again.
00:39:16
Lisa
And that's where the consistency kicks in. And that's where, of course, we get the progression.
00:39:23
Steve
i I think my last bit on that would be, which is, I think it was my coach or certainly somebody back in the day when I was quite young. And people go, out I was so tired after 5K. How am i going to run 10K?
00:39:37
Steve
I was so tired after 10K. How am I going to run a half marathon? And ah remember whoever it was said to me, you can't get twice as tired. right?
00:39:48
Steve
You're just that tired for a bit longer, okay? So, and it and that's the point. You you can't, people say, how on earth am I possibly going to run double that distance when I'm so tired and I don't think I could run any anymore?
00:40:03
Steve
You can't get twice. It's a bit like once you, when you're going out for a run in the rain, you can't get, once you're wet, you're wet. You know, that's it. You can't get, you can't get double wet. You know, you you're just going to be out there for a bit longer. And that's all it is really.
00:40:15
Steve
And that's what training does. It's just, training your your mentally and physically just to be able to cope with that um a little bit longer and as Lisa said and as I've said it's much easier to go from 5 to 10k it's just a case of doing a bit more of what you've been already been doing um and you'll find that that the 10k is something which is hugely achievable um so yeah go for it
00:40:44
UKRunChat
Yeah, I'll bring it in.
00:40:45
Lisa
I always think there are two big jumps in extending your distance that are the toughest.
00:40:51
Lisa
Couch to 5K and half marathon to marathon. I think the ones in the middle are probably the easiest ones to get from 5K to 10K and 10K to half marathon.
00:40:59
Steve
ah
00:41:03
Lisa
um Marathon is a different concept for all sorts of reasons, um which you need to do. you know, you really need to put yourself through it again. and But sometimes, you know, 5Ks scare me a lot more than half marathons because I don't take myself to an inch of my life quite as much in a half marathon as I do in the last half mile of 5K when, you know, I'm getting over competitive and um really on the edge in terms of heart rate, et cetera.
00:41:34
Lisa
So, yeah.
00:41:36
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's an interesting perspective. and So just on the note of kind of how much to do, how do we prevent injury in
Distinguishing Exercise Discomfort from Injury
00:41:47
UKRunChat
newer runners?
00:41:47
UKRunChat
Because it can be quite common to experience just aches and pains, can't it, if you've not exercised for a while.
00:41:48
Lisa
Thank you.
00:41:54
UKRunChat
What is normal and what should people be looking out for if they are perhaps doing a bit too much too soon?
00:42:02
Steve
Yeah, well, it's quite hard because, again, people have to get to know their body a little bit as well. so you've got to understand the difference between stiffness or DOMS, as people tend to call it, and and pain.
00:42:14
Steve
um So what people sometimes call pain isn't really pain. It's discomfort and and all the... the your but like You get old like me, you get out of bed in the morning, and you're going, oh, you know and you're spending half your time, your aches and pains.
00:42:28
Steve
That's a bit different to... I've got something that feels like it shouldn't be there. And um that you really, obviously anything like that, anything that starts small will only get worse.
00:42:42
Steve
So it's not going to go away. So, and you're better off to take a little bit of rest, and or treatment, but if it's something that you're nipping the bud right at the very beginning, yeah if rather than turning into something that's going to keep you out for a weeks.
00:42:57
Steve
So you're three or four days off. ah So it's a bit about learning. to listen to your body, work out what's not normal, what's unusual. I've never felt that before. um Or if you know, sometimes you know when it happens, you know it will suddenly something, maybe a little tweak in your calf or something.
00:43:16
Steve
And you think, oh, I'll i'll just keep going. Don't. All of these things, if you nip them in the bud, the vast majority of injuries, if you nip them in the bud, injuries which are caused by you know the repetitiveness of training.
00:43:30
Steve
I get it. If you twist an ankle on a run, you know that that that's something very, very different different. But if it's something that's been brought on by the fact you're doing some regular activity in a way that you haven't before, you'll probably realize it and nip it in the bud. So even if you're out on a run and you feel a little bit of a twinge, stop, walk back,
00:43:51
Steve
um because ah you'll do more damage in that, I'll just i'll just hobble on type thing. Now, if you're if you're in a marathon, like Lisa said, and you've trained hard for it, and you get to mile 18 and something like that, of course you're going to hobble on, because you've but in training, you don't need to.
00:44:09
Steve
I always say it to my guys, you know, the guys that coach at the highest level, it's all about coming back tomorrow. You know, we've so you you should never be training to such a max level. A bit like Lisa said, training works best when it's cumulative, just keeps building.
00:44:27
Steve
So you never, ever want to really hit the max, because if you keep doing that, you're going to get hurt. Your body's going to break down. But yeah, try and try and get to understand your body. you Try and listen to it. And the other thing as well is the thing that most people don't really want to do is injury prevention.
00:44:45
Steve
So a lot of people these days might be doing a bit of yoga, might be doing um ah you're going to the gym to do other things or just stuff at home. There are some very basic things you can do every night before you go to bed, you know maybe a few calf raises, maybe just a bit of stretching, just because all of that stuff is going to do two things. One, it's going to help strengthen muscles and joints in a way which ah your running is doing, but also to complement that.
00:45:11
Steve
And also just to give a that little bit of extra flexibility that that would would help all of us. So, yeah, there's a lot you can do.
Preventing Injuries: Listening to Your Body
00:45:21
Steve
um Prevention is great if you've got a bit of time, you know, just five minutes before you go out, five minutes afterwards, maybe before you go to bed, maybe when you get up in the morning.
00:45:29
Steve
We're talking 20 minutes out of your day. It'll make a massive difference. And then just just listen to your body. um And if you are if you are feeling something unusual, then stop.
00:45:41
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's great advice. Thank you. And just lastly for you, Steve, if somebody is looking to improve their time in the 10K, what kind? I know you said you don't want to give kind of specific work.
00:45:52
Steve
Yeah.
00:45:53
UKRunChat
What kind of things should they be looking to include?
00:45:56
Steve
If you want to improve your time on the 10K, improve your time on the 5K. Okay.
00:46:00
UKRunChat
Yeah, OK.
00:46:00
Steve
that's That's my very basic advice because what that means is um to get faster 10K, you're going have to get, once you've got to a point where you're doing enough running, you need to go back to what I said to introduce some quicker running in intervals, um in in what we'd call tempo.
00:46:19
Steve
And you can look all this sort of stuff up where you're kind of doing efforts that might It might not be short efforts that you might do on a track or something. but But if your goal starts with, I need to run a faster 5K, and how do you run a faster 5K?
00:46:35
Steve
How do run a faster mile? you so And I know this is this is very basic, but that's the premise of of of everything you do. You'd say the same to a marathon runner. How do run a faster marathon?
00:46:49
Steve
you need to improve your half marathon time. So you know that goes for elites and everybody down. So you start at the bottom, you start to run some shorter, quicker stuff, maybe stuff you haven't done before, ah maybe doing, you know, 10 times a minute effort with with a couple of minutes walk recovery, and but running at a faster pace.
00:47:10
Steve
And gradually that'll all sort of bleed back up the up the ladder, if you like, because you'll start to be able to run um you know three times three minutes at a quicker pace and so you build it all up that way so recoveries sorry interval training any types and i said before vary it vary your pace in your runs and yet you know the if you really can put the whole thing together then start to look at your steady running as well and try and feed that into your into your steady running as well
00:47:42
Steve
But speed, I say speed, I use that term loosely, um but but varying your pace. Because if you want to run five seconds a kilometer quicker for 10 kilometers, that isn't just about your endurance. You have to teach you'd have to teach your body to run a bit quicker as well.
00:48:00
UKRunChat
Yeah. And what what about that little voice? I always get at it about 7K into a 10K that goes, you're going too fast, slow down. How do you kind of stop that and ignore it? How how how do you keep going?
00:48:15
Steve
Well, I think the thing is, if you you've you've got to use what you've um what you've been doing in training and you're right, you've got to push all all athletes, no matter athletes, all people running.
00:48:20
UKRunChat
yeah
00:48:25
Steve
At some point, you're going to hit that point where you go, have I overcooked this? Have I gone too fast? And so depending on where that happens, if it's with a kilometre go, go for it.
00:48:36
Steve
You know, that's the you're good. Don't worry. You're good. You're not going to lose too much. If it's like you said, it's 7K. So if you think about this, you're gauging your effort is...
00:48:47
Steve
um is important. So if you just back off a tiny bit, like literally a tiny like a little bit, you'll probably find that actually, because what what starts happen when that happens is you start get a little bit anxious and actually you'll be using a bit more energy than you think and probably not really.
00:49:05
Steve
You back off literally five seconds a kilometer and you'll get back relaxed a little bit and you'll probably find you run about the same pace. A lot of marathon runners do that this as a sort of trick. I mean, if they're not surging and stuff.
00:49:18
Steve
When they're on pace running, if you tell yourself, I'm going to actually, you know what, for this kilometre, I'm going to go a little bit slower. And that's a, you might, you you you probably find you don't go that much slow, but you actually feel good. ah And then you're back into that, oh, I've now only got to go. Actually, I'm all right. i can I can maintain this pace.
00:49:38
Steve
And actually, you probably find yourself picking up the pace in the last K. So the trick normally for me is, if you think you're starting to struggle, you can just back off a little bit and just get back into more, I'm okay with this.
00:49:52
Steve
Yeah? Yeah. It's a little bit more difficult if you're in the Olympics and somebody in front of you is herring off and you're trying to hang on for a medal. But you know what I mean? If it's just you and your target um and up to that point you're on schedule or you're a bit ahead of schedule, then just you don't have to kind of throw it all.
00:50:08
Steve
You just back off a little bit. and And I think you'll probably find it. Because if you fight that all the time, you know, you just go, you will just run yourself into a hole.
00:50:20
Steve
Yeah. So and but the very fact you're probably thinking about it, probably means you maybe do need to slow down a little bit. But only if.
00:50:28
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's really good advice. Yeah, painting pacing is hard, isn't it? It is quiet is quite a ah skill to learn, yeah.
00:50:34
Steve
Well, it's a skill which is based on... we all we all There's two things there, really. When we get in a race, particularly people who run their first big event where they haven't been in before, and you you know what you do in training, and you know what your running pace is,
00:50:50
Steve
And you get in a race and you get all excited and after 2k you go, wow, I'm running 15 seconds a kilometer quicker than I normally do. This is great. It's great because you've got a bit of adrenaline and you got it and it's going to come back and bite you in the bum.
00:51:02
Steve
So you just need to kind of, you haven't turned into an Olympian overnight.
00:51:05
UKRunChat
you
00:51:07
Steve
You haven't suddenly improved, you know, because, but, but sometimes um if it's a few seconds quicker, that's okay because you're just pushing yourself into a new zone and territory just a little bit.
00:51:22
Steve
And then as the race progresses, if that still feels okay after five or six K, then you're into what we've just talked about then where you think, actually, you know what, this is this is going all right. If I just hold it a little bit, then I'm going to be able to maintain.
00:51:36
Steve
But yeah, going off at ah much quicker and is usually not the best recipe. That's just because we get excited and we get carried away. And it's amazing how people can convince themselves.
00:51:46
Steve
Usually blokes... You know, I'm having a blinder here. I'm i um a'm on for a massive personal best, you know. um So yeah, that that's that's just, is that that goes with the territory sometimes.
Event Details and Invitation
00:52:00
UKRunChat
yeah oh that's such good advice thank you both so much for coming on and chatting us today so just remind us where the withal and hollywood fun run is and when it's happening this year it's june isn't it
00:52:13
Lisa
It certainly is. So Withall and Hollywood Fun Run is happening on the 22nd of June, and which is a Sunday morning.
00:52:28
Lisa
Withall is just south of Birmingham in the northern part of Bromsgrove in Worcestershire. And ah should we give the website address? It's WithallHollywoodFunRun.com.
00:52:38
UKRunChat
Yes, please.
00:52:41
Lisa
dot org dot uk but to be honest if you just google uh with all fun run it'll take you straight to the page have look around and come and join us because we're going to have a party
00:52:54
UKRunChat
Yeah, do do get involved. Will you both be there this year? Either of you running just helping out?
00:52:58
Lisa
absolutely yeah i'll be pacing so yeah steve normally is his bike aren't you
00:53:00
UKRunChat
Yeah. Oh, you're pacing, are you? Yeah.
00:53:04
Steve
yali Yeah, i'll i'll um I'll be out there making sure everybody gets around to safety. That's my excuse anyway.
00:53:12
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:53:14
Steve
I don't want Lisa to beat me. She's going quicker than me these days. So, yeah, ah i'll I'll pretend that I'm organising and I don't have to run.
00:53:23
Lisa
Yeah, i think you're quite safe, Steve.
00:53:26
Steve
but
00:53:27
UKRunChat
I will thank you. Thank you both for your time this morning. It's been lovely chatting to you both.
00:53:32
UKRunChat
And we hope that all the listeners out there have really enjoyed this episode. We'll see you on the next one.
00:53:32
Steve
Cheers.