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Season 2 Episode 1: Artful Fuckery with Dafna Steinberg
126 Plays4 years ago
On this episode, we discuss art, creativity, and body positivity with Dafna Steinberg.
Dafna's Bio:
Dafna Steinberg is a native of Washington, DC. A graduate of Hampshire College, the International Center of Photography, and Goldsmiths, University of London, she has exhibited in and curated challenging thematic shows in America and abroad. From 2010 till 2012, she was a member of the art collective Sparkplug, supported by the District of Columbia Arts Center. In 2012, Ms. Steinberg was commissioned by the Woolly Mammoth Theater to create three pieces for the debut of the comedy/drama Mr. Burns: A Post-Electric Play. Ms. Steinberg has been an artist in residence at Vermont Studio Center (Johnson, VT), Sou’wester (Seaview, WA) and Starry Night Artist Retreat (Truth or Consequences, NM). She has exhibited nationally and internationally, including shows at Ford Gallery (Portland), Arc Gallery and Studios (San Francisco), Flashpoint Gallery (DC), the Katzen Arts Center (DC), Lunchbox Gallery (Miami), SOHO20Gallery (NYC), Woolley Mammoth Theater (DC) and the International Center of Photography School (NYC). She is currently an adjunct faculty member at Northern Virginia Community College.
Website: https://dafnasteinberg.com/home.html
IG: https://www.instagram.com/dafnasteinbergart/
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
The End
Introduction to Fabulous Fuckery
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome to Fabulous Fuckery. I'm your host, Baroness Brie. Fabulous Fuckery is your sophisticated destination for discussion on wellness, dating, family and blurred life. Come with me while we discuss emerging fabulously in spite of life's fuckery. It's your girl, Baroness
Meet Daphna Steinberg
00:00:29
Speaker
Brie. I'm here today with Miss Daphne Steinberg. Hello.
00:00:33
Speaker
Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me. Daphna is a celebrated artist. She works in multiple mediums. She works with photography, video, collages, paint. No paint. No paint. No paint. It's messy. Okay. Well, not paint.
00:00:49
Speaker
However, she is just all about body positivity, all about feminist, just awesomeness. You just pick up everything that I love about art. And your messaging is love yourself. Your message is consistent. And I just love how you.
00:01:07
Speaker
It's hard sometimes, but I try. You can find Daphna on DaphnaSteinberg.com. And when I tell you, you can see some of her art
Education and Artistic Influences
00:01:17
Speaker
installations. I mean, you have an installation going on all the time. I try to show a lot, and I try to also show a lot outside of living in DC, and then I try to show outside of DC, because it's a different audience. So yeah, I try to keep work rolling.
00:01:34
Speaker
And you are a classically trained artist because you went to school for art? I did. Actually, it's funny. I'm currently considering whether or not I want to go back to school because I didn't get an MFA. And apparently, as an artist, that's the end all BLA. You didn't MFA. But I have an MA in photography and sociology. And so my background is actually both art and sociology. So that's why a lot of my work is about different social issues
00:02:06
Speaker
Yeah, social issues. I was going to add something else. You also did some training in London. I did. I did. I went to grad school in London, which was a very interesting experience. They have a very different way of thinking about things. And it's just interesting to talk about certain issues. When we talk about ideas around feminism, race, politics, social class issues, their experience is so much
00:02:34
Speaker
different to ours and they have a different way of talking about it. So yeah, so it's interesting that it was interesting to learn there. Interesting. Yeah. So in all your travels, in all your art, in all your experiences, like how do you decide which you're going to pour into your art?
00:02:53
Speaker
So most of my art is very self-referential, even going, extending to the titles.
Art and Social Media
00:03:00
Speaker
I think the photo series that I'm working on right now is the first time that, it's kind of part of the title, but it's the first time I'm not using the word I or me in my title. A lot of my work,
00:03:14
Speaker
stems from my life experiences. So the past two big bodies of work I made were about dating and how much I hate it. But also actually the last body of work was about, stemmed actually from a traumatic experience that I had and while dating and
Body Positivity Journey
00:03:37
Speaker
And it was really a catharsis for me to kind of get all of that anger that I had out. And then it kind of ended up being a political statement. Because it was about women, it was about the experiences of women and in- Can you let the listeners know the name of that piece? Oh, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt. Yes.
00:03:57
Speaker
So that actually came from the because I after the you know I ended things with this guy I all I had was a t-shirt and it actually said war on women on it because that's a band that's a great band punk band from Baltimore today the last date we had was we went to go see a punk show and we saw war on women and I was like gung-ho about it and
00:04:18
Speaker
It ended really badly. It was a little terrible. I just love how you take your life experiences and you pour it into your work. Thank you. And some days, so if you follow Daphna's Instagram, can you give your Instagram account? Yes, my Instagram is Daphna Steinberg Art at Daphna Steinberg Art.
00:04:34
Speaker
And so if you follow her, you'll see where she is in her journey for the week and you just have such well curated pieces. Thank you. But, you know, one day it may be Daphne eating a muffin and she's in her car. Oh, that's a cupcake. That's a cupcake. And, you know, it's like, oh, OK. And then, you know, then I see that cupcake down.
00:04:56
Speaker
And then you're like, okay, because you don't think of, you make so many things or interactive art pieces. And I don't think of what I'm doing as art, but I was like, you know what, bitch, this selfie is art. And you know, or when I, you know, you get dressed and I didn't like what I have on today, you know, this could also be another piece of art, you know, a B side.
Art and Social Issues
00:05:16
Speaker
But I never think. Well, sometimes I think, I think social media is so fascinating in that respect because it is performance. It's always like life is performance in a way.
00:05:28
Speaker
And we are always performing something. And so I have things where it's like I photograph myself in the mirror in my building every day. I don't do it as much anymore, but I was doing it for about four years. And so now I have amassed.
00:05:45
Speaker
If you ever want to see all of them if you do if you look up hashtag Jewish size It's our inside joke. I'm very much aware It's all pictures pictures of me Instagram on Twitter on Instagram Instagram and it was a joke
00:06:08
Speaker
between me and a friend and I was like I'm gonna make this a thing and it's this thing and so now every and now every once in a while friends of mine will post something and they'll hashtag it and so it's occasionally other people but yeah I know it's I love when it's like an occasional like brown Jewish side
00:06:24
Speaker
I'm like, who's why is that? That's not definitely why. I know, and I'm just thinking, but it makes me, I'm like, yes. So, no, I just love the fact that you're so body positive.
Body Positivity and Society
00:06:35
Speaker
Thank you. Where did you find the comfort in saying, this is what it looks like, you guys are gonna get these pictures? It's taken a really long time, and there's a lot of, I went through a lot of really horrible things. And, I mean, I've had, you know,
00:06:54
Speaker
I tell this story a lot and people are always really horrified by it and it always makes me think about how I'm kind of nonchalant about it. But I remember I was in a restaurant eating and a guy came up behind me and put his hand on my shoulder and said, hey Fatty, leave some for the rest of us.
00:07:08
Speaker
And it was like yeah, I mean it was and it was just like my initial reaction was I really wanted to take my fork and stab his hands of course but I didn't I just kind of froze up and and I remember thinking about how The violation wasn't just the words. It was the fact that he also touched you. Yep, and it was it was just this kind of you know Weirdly like
00:07:30
Speaker
like almost like he was hitting on me but it wasn't it was just gross all over and it was it was just it when it was and it was and but that experience is not I mean I always say you know if I had a nickel for every time I got called a fat bitch
00:07:47
Speaker
I would probably have enough to pay for the t-shirt that I now own that says fat bitch on it. And I do wear, I haven't worn it out in public for that reason, but I have other things that I wear that say things like, my favorite is plus size, I have a necklace that says plus size Barbie. And people really respond to it and it's always funny because they don't know, people don't know what to do when you are a fat person and you're comfortable.
00:08:12
Speaker
And that's such a fucked up thing. Yeah, it is a fucked up thing. Because I think we've been so brainwashed by media and society that everyone has to be a certain size. And it's like no one is that fucking size. No one's that small. I like food. You like food. I've had babies. Fuck that. Let's be happy in the skin we're in. And I'm really excited that the brands are starting to do a better job of
00:08:35
Speaker
Yeah, I worry though about co-opting. I mean, I worry about, you know, like, you know, that was kind of the whole thing with the whole dove. I mean, and I feel like that's a, I think it's good, but then it's also like, you still have so much more work too. We have a lot of work. Yeah. And it's, and, and also, um,
00:08:57
Speaker
You know, it's that thing of, I say, I'll use the word fat, and people are like, oh, don't use that word. And I'm like, why? That's an adjective.
Art as Performance
00:09:06
Speaker
I'm a fat person. You know, they're thin people. It's not, and I don't think of, I've taught myself to not think of it as a negative word.
00:09:17
Speaker
And actually, the way you say that, I have so many friends, and we're all going through different struggles, different journeys, and you got the big one, the skinny one, the black one, the this one, the dark one, the this one, the this one. And I always hate when someone says, oh, hey, your friend was really pretty. And I'm like, oh, which friend? It's a picture of eight people, the fat one. No, we don't do that. Which one were you referring to? The pink dress, the blue dress? Yeah, there are other ways to describe. And I feel as though society is so negative
00:09:44
Speaker
They use fat as a negative term. And what I always think is interesting is, going back to being called a fat bitch, it's always, I've found my experience with that is 95% from men, and it's 100%, 95% from men, but 100% when I've said no. And the response is, you know,
00:10:09
Speaker
they think that that's the thing that's gonna break me. Yes, and every time I've said no, oh, you ugly bitch. Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly. And I'm like, wait a minute, you just tried to get my number. Exactly. And now I'm a bitch. And then, you know, like you said, whatever the term is in front of it, and guys have got to stop doing that shit. Stop, what is it, the toxic masculinity. Stop putting your evil into the air because you didn't get what you want. Just say, just say,
00:10:36
Speaker
okay just yeah exactly just be like thank you i appreciate your response and uh you have a nice day so you're not interested yeah just or not even just like
00:10:45
Speaker
But if they don't get the job, do they go back to the manager and say, you know? That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. And that's a lot. It's always just like, you bald bitch. Some people do. Some people do. That's frightening. Especially if it's a woman telling them no. I always find it so fascinating. And it's been really interesting doing work around my body.
00:11:07
Speaker
And so what I always say about this work, so the work is called La Belle Fleur Sauvage, which is actually a song title from this band called Lord Huron. I've heard of them. I love that.
Feminism and Narrative
00:11:17
Speaker
They're like, I'm obsessed with them. But the song is really,
00:11:24
Speaker
Like the lyrics, I actually are kind of problematic, but I, the song itself is really beautiful. And I just imagine like that's, I want somebody to write a song like that for me. And, but I'm imagining, and if you look up, it's funny, cause if you look up, it's legitimately like white women with long straight hair in the mountains and they have flowers and things. And it's just like,
00:11:50
Speaker
I am never gonna look like that. I am never gonna look like that, but that, because it means, for those who don't speak French, it means the beautiful wildflower. And the idea of being a flower is wispy and dainty, but the song that's talking about standing the test of time and outliving generations of, you know,
00:12:16
Speaker
The song basically personifies a flower as a woman. Understood. And why can't I be that? Exactly. And so that's why I wanted to start taking photos of myself because I'm finally at a point where I'm comfortable in my body and it feels like home. And I live in it. And it sustains me. And it takes me where I need to go. It heals me.
00:12:44
Speaker
you know, as much as I've been hurt, it's also, you know, it's what keeps me going. And all the scars and all the, you know, the ones you can see, the ones you can't see, those are all part of that. That is actually the perfect way to describe your body because when you've been through things, like, the way you just describe it, it's perfect. I don't even have to ask you another question. Thank you. Alright, so, next question. Interview over. Yeah, pretty much. We're done, bitches.
00:13:10
Speaker
But no, the way that you described it, if we could have more women who have been through the level of self-care to say, oh, the shit that happened to me, this man
Trauma and Self-Acceptance
00:13:19
Speaker
who did this to me, these people who've done this to me, we've all been through body negative events. And so to say it's home. That's it. And then nobody can take that away from you. Nope.
00:13:32
Speaker
And trauma's a bitch. And trauma can be anything from words that people say to physical acts, to repetitive abuse. And I think our body sustains so much and is so, so fragile and yet so, so strong, especially as women. I think we talk about, I always think it's funny when it's like the strength that women have, they always talk about childbirth. And it's like,
00:14:02
Speaker
you know, that is a thing that women can sustain. But I always think it's funny, I'm like, we're strong in other ways. And I don't, and I always find it problematic that that is the only thing you talk about in terms of women's strength. Well, we were talking, so a friend of mine, we're talking about this a couple of days ago, because she's never had children.
00:14:19
Speaker
However, she's endured great losses. And so we're talking about your ability to heal from those losses. And why do we always say, oh, it's childbirth, childbirth, childbirth? But when you've had so many people in your family pass away or dealing with disease, that takes a lot from you. And a woman's body and the things that we're able to do, not to say that men don't heal from this as well for the fellas listening. However, women just, we just kick ass.
00:14:46
Speaker
And we don't, we don't, we, and that's some of the time why we take so long to heal from our traumas, because we are in go mode. And it's time to take care of business, we go take care of business, and we forget to take care of ourselves in the process. And that's always, yeah, that's always something to keep, and for me this project was about taking care of myself, and it was about sort of, you know, I jokingly call it, because I photographed myself in,
00:15:10
Speaker
You know in intimate spaces or ideas are on intimate spaces. So it's mostly My home or my parents home, but then also was a lot of also hotel rooms And so I jokingly have started calling it me naked in hotel rooms Because it's just like yeah, that's that's you know, you see you don't like I don't really I'm afraid Instagram is gonna take down a lot of them. I remember I
00:15:36
Speaker
the International Center of Photography. I studied there when I was in college and their alumni accepted, their alumni Instagram feed accepted two of my photos. And they emailed me and they're like, this has nipples in it, can we put a black bar across it?
00:15:51
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, sure, I guess. And it's like, it still didn't make me any less, it was like the tiniest of black bars. And I'm like, it didn't make me any less naked. It didn't make me any less feeling very vulnerable. But it was just really funny that that was what was the difference between.
00:16:07
Speaker
Instagram taking it down or not. So did you put the black bar on your arm? No, no, no, they did it. They did it. Okay, so but then I had another piece that was shown by a gallery that I submitted work to them and didn't get accepted for a show and they they put one of my pieces up and it was a piece where I'm you know, naked in a bathroom in a hotel in New Orleans brushing my teeth and It was
00:16:34
Speaker
They didn't put a bar across the nipple and I didn't know they were going to put it up. And then suddenly I just started seeing all of these comments on a post about that. I was tagged in and I was like, oh, they chose that one. OK, that's a good one. And then it's like, you know, I'm like, I share it with my friends. This just happened. I'm excited. But we have to go look for the the nipple pictures. Do a search. You can find them. You just email me. You
Comfort with Nudity
00:17:00
Speaker
know, it's fine. I don't care.
00:17:02
Speaker
It's like, is that creepy? It's like, I'm going to go search for that. She just told us. Yeah, it's fine. It's fine. It's like, you know, they're out there. But no, it's just the fact that you are comfortable being naked and you're comfortable saying. I think everybody should be comfortable being naked. We're not because we've been body shamed. I know. Well, I always, this is the thing I've been telling people when they're like, how do you do it? And I'm just like, you know what? Go home.
00:17:26
Speaker
get naked, take a picture of yourself naked, and then just look at it. And when you look at it, stop looking for the flaws. Look at it until you can't see anything but yourself.
00:17:39
Speaker
And that's something that I got from Lindy West's book, Shrill, which is now the TV show. Because she talked about that and how she got comfortable with her body. And hers was looking at pictures of fat women in bikinis at the beach on Instagram. And she did it until she stopped seeing fat and she just started seeing them and their personalities and coming through. That's so important. It's really important. I'm in love with everything you're saying.
00:18:08
Speaker
But it's true, and I tell people that, and I tell that to men, women. I don't tell it to children, but you know, children don't care.
00:18:17
Speaker
My favorite thing was one of my best friends, her son, he's the sweetest kid ever and
Teaching Body Positivity
00:18:25
Speaker
I adore him. He came to the opening of the show that I had with this body work and I was carrying him and we were looking and he looked at the photos on the wall and he said, that's your butt! And I was like, that is my butt! And he was so excited that we both had butts. And it was just like,
00:18:44
Speaker
This is what I need. Let's teach somebody, teach it to the kids. So they don't have to go through therapy. I know. That's what I'm saying. It's going to save so much money. I know. And it also saves, if you teach kids that their bodies are their own, it saves a lot of struggle.
00:19:03
Speaker
teaching them consent, teaching them. So just like, you know, and that's hard. It's hard because it's ingrained. And it's horrible because the term, the definition of consent is consistently being redefined. And it's like, no, no motherfuckers. You don't get to tell me what it means. And if I say okay, and then I change my mind, you have a right to change your mind. And now they're saying, well, once a man's aroused, you shouldn't make it stop. And it's like, no.
00:19:30
Speaker
No, no. If a woman has changed her mind and you... Changing your mind is, I mean, I change my mind every five seconds of most minute things. Exactly. Just let, we have to teach, we have to do a better job of teaching our boys how to become men.
00:19:43
Speaker
And right now, you're sitting here and you're listening to these entitled people. Tell me what I see. And we're going to get back to people going to have to cross the border. We're going to have to get people here to help them get safe abortions. That's ridiculous. And we have all these men who don't understand how many abortions their daughters probably have.
00:20:03
Speaker
Well, no, they do understand if they, because they probably would make sure their daughters have an abortion. But it's also like, they don't really know how the female body works. And so it's kind of like, you know, the whole thing about, you know, when you're talking about six weeks, being pregnant at six weeks, and it's just like, you know, how many women know that they're getting a period or they know that they're having a miscarriage. Right. I mean, the first baby I had, I didn't realize I was pregnant.
00:20:33
Speaker
So I was like, holy shit, what do you mean I'm two months pregnant? Holy shit. I mean, I'm wondering how personal I should get. I've had two abortions. And I don't regret either one. That doesn't mean that I don't feel things about them. And I wrote on Facebook a number of years ago, I wrote about how there's a certain time of the year that I always get a little sad.
Societal Pressures on Women
00:20:59
Speaker
And I realized a couple years ago that it was,
00:21:03
Speaker
around the time when I would have had a child. And there's a sadness to that. And we just, I mean literally before we started recording and we talked about this, but I don't want kids. I know that that's a decision that I've come to and that, you know, I know things about myself and raising children and there are things that I know that I don't necessarily want. And yeah, it may change. You know, if I meet some Devenir guys,
00:21:30
Speaker
But your decisions are your decision, and they're trying to take away our right to make decisions. Yeah, and I think that's, you know, and I think about how the process I went through of figuring out, I mean, one time I was on birth control, you know, and I still got pregnant.
00:21:46
Speaker
And what I think is, I actually lost weight. I changed my body just to get on birth control. And I said to the doctor, I really want the normal birth. And he's like, well, I don't like your blood pressure, and I don't like this. And the thing is, my blood pressure was fine at the time. And I was like, can you just put me on the regular? I'm working out. I'm eating right.
00:22:13
Speaker
He didn't. And I got pregnant. And, you know, that for me was also a turning point in my thinking about my body because I felt so cheated by the medical industry, which constantly tells us, you know, oh, you have to lose weight, you have to lose weight, diet and exercise, diet and exercise. And that's something that, um,
00:22:34
Speaker
I get so mad. Think about it. But it's something that I, you know, there are just like there are thin people who are sick. There are fat people who are healthy. Correct. There are thin people who have diabetes. There are fat people who have diabetes. Yes. Being fat does not mean you're going to get these diseases. It doesn't mean you're and and so, you know, I think it's something that I wish the medical industry would change to.
00:23:00
Speaker
we have to change our mindset and what we see. When you see a person, first of all, everyone is obese. I've been told I'm obese. I owe you no, you're obese. And I'm like, what? And they're like, because of your height, your weight, and your bone structure, you're this. And so I'm looking at the list and I'm like, so they're telling me, oh, you need to lose 15 more pounds. And I'm like, well, I look like a bobblehead doll if I lose 15 more pounds. So this is what we look like. And you know, everyone's body structure is different. Everyone's-
00:23:26
Speaker
find like a really like a bodybuilder. I mean, which we think of a bodybuilder is like the pinnacle of health, right? I mean, sort of. But you know, despite the drugs, despite the drugs, bodybuilders are obese. Yep.
00:23:38
Speaker
because their weight and their height, depending on their height, you know, it doesn't match. And so what the BMI chart doesn't take into account is, doesn't it take into account muscle? It doesn't take into account bone density. It doesn't take into account, you know, just natural genetics of, you know, I always joke that I come from a long line of very short, very like robust women. And, um,
00:24:05
Speaker
Be my doesn't take that into account. They don't take, they don't think
Body Image and Mindset
00:24:08
Speaker
about any of this stuff. And my, I mean, my grandmother was four 11. She was like 195 pounds. You know, it was like tiny big woman and you know, but she would kick your ass. That was the idea of tiny big woman. Yeah, you know, she would, she would fuck you up. So, you know, we have to respect people and where their bodies are and where we lie. And we just have to do a better job all that. And also if you want people to lose weight,
00:24:30
Speaker
shaming them into doing it is not gonna make them, it's gonna make them gain weight. It's gonna make them- It's just full. Yeah. We have to teach people like eating is a mindset. You eat to get full, you eat to, you know. I mean, I eat to, it's like- I like snacks. I love snacks. So, but you know, but- There's a video of a little girl who's like, she's so funny, she's like,
00:24:48
Speaker
And I am like, that is me every day. That is me every day, any time I go anywhere. There's a meme of this lady, she was saying, you know, they said, what are you going to do? She goes, I'm going to go home and eat lots of sweets and get all fat and sassy. And you know, I posted at the beginning of every winter, all right, I'm about to get fat and sassy, because I'm sitting here eating all the snacks and sweets. I mean, I was having this conversation,
Art as Emotional Expression
00:25:10
Speaker
you know, I've been, you know, moving stuff and just like, it's like moving around and lifting things. I'm just like,
00:25:17
Speaker
Oh my god, I feel so tired and everything hurts. And I'm like, you know what? I want to go back to working. I used to box. And yeah, it was awesome. And that was a thing where my body wasn't really judged. It was probably the fittest I ever was in my life. But I wasn't thin. I was thinner.
00:25:39
Speaker
You were happy. Well, I was happy, but I mean, I'm happy now. So it's really, it's relative and it's like, you know, and I was happy when I was boxing because it was like anger management and exercise, we're all in the one.
00:25:54
Speaker
But I also wasn't happy because I wasn't in a good place in my life. And now I feel like I'm in a really good place, and I feel like I'm more settled with my body and myself. But I want to go work out. I just don't want to go somewhere where somebody's going to be like, are you trying to get beach body ready?
00:26:12
Speaker
My body is beach body ready. I'll just put on a bathing suit and go. We have just got a, it was just too much. Every day is like Instagram, Slum Tummy Tea. Oh no, no. I don't even follow any of that. Well it pops up in my sponsored ads and I don't know what algorithm I have done to make people feel like I care about that shit. But I don't, you know, sometimes you, they catch you at a weak moment. Like you know when you're up at three in the morning and you're watching it and it's like some Tea Carp commercial and you're like,
00:26:37
Speaker
I don't want that. But you really don't. You just have to sleep. I'm sleep deprived and I'm hungry. But we just, it's just too much. I mean, I made a body of work about that, about emotional eating and the different moods that we made. I like that piece because it was several pieces and she actually had a table set and all the food was fake. And then I did a performance where I ate a Five Guys cheeseburger in front of an audience of 25 people and it was awesome.
00:27:04
Speaker
It was terrifying. Now I want a cheeseburger, I haven't had- There's a Five Guys are on the corner from here. Did they do turkey burgers? I haven't had red meat in forever. Can you go to Five Guys and ask for a turkey burger? They may throw me out on my ear. No, no, I think they handle their options. I don't know what they, I don't know. I don't want to eat any of this. I don't want to eat any of this beyond meat stuff. I don't want to eat nude food and you know, solid green. What the fuck you're feeding me?
00:27:26
Speaker
You know, at what point, we don't know that they're feeding us people or not. So, you know, it's like, I'm vegan, but you didn't say no human. But, you know, it's all these food options. That's the most amazing thing. If vegans became cannibals, like, I'm sorry, vegans, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm just saying that we don't know what Beyond Meat is. Sure, sure, sure, sure. What is
Art Workshops and Accessibility
00:27:45
Speaker
it, Impossible? It's Impossible Burger, and, you know, they're talking about all the things that are in it. And I looked at it, and it looks like some sort of meat product. I don't know. I don't know. I'm gonna stick with my bean burgers. If I don't...
00:27:55
Speaker
I'll eat a tuna. Veggie burgers. I don't know. We're gonna go on a field trip and find out. So I also want to talk about your work in the community because you are teaching people how to make art. And it's so amazing to me that this is something I've never thought about doing.
00:28:15
Speaker
So, are you referring to World Collage Day? Yes, ma'am. World Collage Day was on May 10th this year. I think I've been doing a lot of, I've taught some workshops at the National Women's Museum and I've taught, if anybody wants to go, I'm teaching workshops at Michaels.
00:28:35
Speaker
in Virginia. Yeah, you have to go to Virginia though. So that's a, you know. Are the links on your website? I will post the links to my website, but I also post the links to my Instagram account. Oh, awesome. Okay. But the, I think the link is up on my Instagram account right now, but the, yeah, the whole, I think collage is one of those art forms that everybody, because everybody, every time I tell people that I make collages and they're like, oh, I did that in high school. And it's like,
00:29:04
Speaker
You can still do it now. And I think it's a really great way because it's using found materials. So it's an easy way. And it's cost efficient. You can use stuff that you have at home. You just need a pair of scissors and a glue stick.
00:29:20
Speaker
And it's really easy. And it's good for any age. You don't have to be a child. You don't have to be an adult. And I think it's a really great way to connect ideas through images and words.
00:29:35
Speaker
So
Balancing Self-Care and Art
00:29:36
Speaker
I do, you know, you can do like poetry with using, I call ransom note poetry. It's like you do found word poetry. Ransom note poetry. Ransom note poetry. I'm sitting here thinking about, like I have an idea for collage now. So I'm sitting here thinking about, because I've been doing some writing and I think One Piece made, I have some images that go along with it. I do a lot of Pinterest boarding and then my Pinterest board. Which is in the sense of collage. Of collage. So it's like I have vision board type things.
00:30:00
Speaker
It's like, hmm, maybe I should make this in my youngest son paints. And so we have all this stuff in the house and I'm thinking, I'm just gonna go take some spray on, some spray on spray paint. And like, I'm just going. Don't do it in the house, do it outside. Outside, no, no, no. Because I have a tarp, we have everything together, so. Good, good, good, good, yeah. No, I'm just thinking, I'm like, I'm gonna make some art and I'm gonna post it and get a critique. I always try to be very nice with my critiques.
00:30:23
Speaker
Now, in addition to everything you have going on, what are you doing to say, this is Daphna's happy place? This is what I'm doing to take care of myself? You know, I said that I'm moving back home currently to help my mom take care of my dad. My dad's been, you know, his health has been great.
00:30:52
Speaker
Part of that is, I think, caring for myself because it's like I'm spending time with my parents and in a way that we haven't before. And it's interesting to see kind of how my mom's gonna watch this and she's gonna be like, you're talking too much. She's like, stop talking, shut the fuck up. She's.
00:31:13
Speaker
She will say that to me. So no, but it's interesting because, you know, my concern was, you know, am I going to go back to being a 16 year old? And it's like, no, I'm not. And it's about, you know, thinking about yourself as a caretaker as opposed to being the one being cared for. And so it's hard to sometimes find going through. And my art is a place where I find solace. It's
00:31:43
Speaker
I invest a lot in it, collaging helps a lot, and it's very therapeutic. Sometimes it's a matter of I just take a magazine and I just cut things out. I've been, oh man, I feel so bougie saying this, but I've been, what is it called? Bullet journaling? Yeah.
00:32:04
Speaker
And that's been really cathartic, because I feel like I can see things getting done, and I can write down things that I'm feeling about in a moment. It doesn't have to be a whole journal entry. For those of you who are not familiar with bullet journaling,
00:32:20
Speaker
My favorite website ever is Pinterest and they have a whole entire section. If you just type in bullet journaling, they'll give you like 50,000 ways to do it. Those people will overdo it. There's people who are fucking show off soon. I saw a store that I think was dedicated to bullet journaling. It was like all fancy pens and stuff. And it made me actually interested because it was so feminine. And I was like, oh, because women have to do all the tasks in the house. So that's why it's all, yeah.
00:32:45
Speaker
But it's just literally taking your ideas for the day and putting a bullet and organizing it. Some people make a section, some people put in fancy washi tape. I started the bullet journal and I was like, I hate this shit and I threw the book away.
00:33:01
Speaker
And so
Community Support and Networking
00:33:02
Speaker
I was like, I'm just gonna keep taking. My bullet journal has a naked woman on it, so it's fine, you know, it's just like. I treated myself to the papyrus, fancy, suede, double wrap, I lost the cord already. That's okay. But it was on sale, I did not pay the $69.99, that bad boy, I went to the end of the season, went and got the orange sticker on it. Yes, yes. It's like I'll scrape that orange sticker off when I get home. That's how you do. $4. But, you know, the bullet journal is very, like, it's very helpful.
00:33:28
Speaker
Yeah, and I think it's also, I'm at a point in my life where there was a meme that I saw where it was just kind of like talking about age and
00:33:40
Speaker
And I've realized recently that I'm so much happier in my 30s than I was in my 20s. And everybody's like, oh, I wish I was in my 20s again. I'm like, I really don't. And I'm really happy to be at the place that I'm at and bullet journaling, like feeling responsible and feeling like things are getting done. We're adulting. It's fancy adulting. It's fancy adulting. It's fancy adulting. Yes, with all the kids.
00:34:03
Speaker
I do try to wear a fancy hat. I do try to wear a fancy hat. You know, I got some fancy hats that fit on my hair. I got a clip on. But you just found my fascinator. So I'm very excited to wear that at some garden parties I wear. There's going to be a lot going on this summer. We'll find a reason. I think so. I think there are some rooftop parties. But taking that time and seeing what's important, it's really, I'm so impressed that you, in the midst of everything you have going on, are trying to find a way to take care of yourself, take care of others.
00:34:32
Speaker
Yeah, there's, I think, you know, and it's funny because I think social media is also great for that. Sometimes I find, you know, I try to have a community of people that are supportive and who I can support, who I want to support. And so I think, you know, especially in the arts,
00:34:53
Speaker
Um, it's a difficult, you know, space to be in, but finding those people and meeting new people and, and, and seeing that we're all kind of on the same journey. I mean, vastly different ways, but we're all kind of, you know, trying to get to that point where we're healing and we're safe, you know, I don't want to say safe space, but like in a place where we feel comfortable.
00:35:16
Speaker
Well, what's also interesting is that DC is just such a creative, I mean, it's just so many different ideas. You go to a party, it's like, oh, I'm going to a DC Creatives Party. And then next thing I was like, what the hell is that? So, you know, it's just so many people, so many different things. And you're like, how does, how do I fit into this? How do I get to know these people, you know, writers and authors? Everyone has a book coming out this summer. And I'm like, what the fuck?
00:35:40
Speaker
It's like my reading list, it's too long, I can't do this. It's too long and it's like, oh you're listening to that on Audible, not buying the book? No, I bought the Audible. I have 500 Audible credits that have to go. So it's like no more money from me Audible. But we have to, we find a way to link up and support each other. I had a guest one the other day where we were talking about when you're networking, tends to be artists network with artists and investors and network with investors.
00:36:03
Speaker
Oh, I always say that's the worst thing. That's the worst way to do it. I think we have to diversify our group. Yeah. And I think I met you through meeting other writers. Right, right. It's like, oh, OK, well, she's cool. And we do something funny because our mutual friend, we met years ago.
00:36:24
Speaker
And we bonded over so many different things that had nothing to do with creative outlet, but then it became kind of like supporting each other creatively.
00:36:36
Speaker
Yeah, I always say when I walk into a room full of artists and I say I'm an artist, everybody's like, oh, OK. But if I walk into a room full of lawyers and say I'm an artist, they're like, tell me more. What is that like? I wish I could be creative. And then you start the whole conversation about what is creativity.
00:36:59
Speaker
Find that I prefer spending time with you know I love spending time with artists, but I also really cherish time that I spend with non-artists because Their worlds are so interesting to me. Yes, and they give you a logic. Yeah, and so they'll give you a new thought process about it
00:37:17
Speaker
Oh, I guess I have been doing this the hard way. Or they'll look at your work in a different way. And the critiques you get are different. And when I post a podcast and I have my right brain friends call me and tell me one thing and then my left brain friends call me and I'm like, ah, I can see the difference. Because some people are like, I think you're really hard on that person and da, da, da, da, da, da.
00:37:38
Speaker
This was we left the whole interview. I didn't like that guess. It's like you were asking the tough questions. It's very interesting how people think and I like tapping into that energy. And I think you can't be afraid. I think there's like levels of things where it's like everybody's the whole thing about being offensive. Everybody's going to be offensive at some point.
00:37:59
Speaker
Or everybody's going to be offended at somebody, I should say, not offensive. Both. We're both. But I think there's the intentionality of being like, I mean, for me, it's like I may have said something on this podcast that somebody might find inappropriate or offensive.
Artistic Expression and Critique
00:38:13
Speaker
And it's like, that's not my intention. I didn't go out of my way. And I think that's also the things that you learn about yourself is when you're in these kind of circles and you're saying,
00:38:26
Speaker
you say something and somebody's like, well, that's not really cool. And that starts a conversation. And you have to be open to that as a person. You can't be like, well, I didn't mean it. You can't get really defensive. And I try to be very open with that. Like right now we're having this conversation. We were talking about sizing and all that stuff. You know, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get an email like, hey, girlfriend, you did not have the ability. You should not have been able to say certain things because that's, you know, and that's just, and I don't, I can't be offended because I understand where they're coming from.
00:38:56
Speaker
I can't say anything. And so we have to work on not being offended when people correct us and telling us that we have privilege. Yeah, I recently presented a paper about fat representation and this exact same thing came up because I was talking about Tess Holliday and it was in reference to her being on the cover of Cosmopolitan. Now,
00:39:20
Speaker
Um, my mistake was that not, you know, I didn't acknowledge that Tess Holliday has said some really racist things and, you know, and there are probably better, there might've been a better person to look for, but in the timeframe that I had to write this paper, I didn't, I didn't find that person and it just, and it seemed really appropriate. And so it's really hard, especially with like, you know, fat images, images of fat women, it's really hard. And there is a huge, you know, and then looking back and it's like, there's a huge community of,
00:39:47
Speaker
women of color, of black women who are plus size, fat, however you want to say, and it's amazing to me because those are women that I actually idolize a lot because they are very open.
00:40:06
Speaker
It's difficult as a white woman saying, oh, how do I approach this? What can I say? What can I say? I'm just going to admire her from afar.
00:40:18
Speaker
But yeah, I could have probably found it different and somebody called me on it at this conference and it was one of those moments where it's like, you know, you're right. I just had to sit there and be like, you're right. That was my mistake and I apologize for that. I'm sorry, I have to look for your paper.
Where to Find Daphna's Work
00:40:33
Speaker
I'll send it to you. No, but you know, you're right and it's just so hard because you're just trying, we live in this place that's almost over politically correct now and you don't have, not to say I'm like, if someone is wrong, fucking tell them they're wrong. Yeah, right, no exactly. But we live in a place of cancel culture
00:40:48
Speaker
where the first thing, you know, as soon as you say something, like you didn't give that person a chance to apologize, you didn't give that person a chance to prove that. I just saw something on Twitter about this. You know, I'm not sure who's been canceled today, don't cancel Brie. But, you know, it's almost like, don't cancel Brie. You know, but there's so many things, and you know, you could say the wrong thing at the wrong time, and your career's over. And you're like, I'm over it. But there's, and I think there's some,
00:41:12
Speaker
There are some aspects of that that I do agree with, you know, especially when we're talking about like the Me Too movement and it's everything. Oh, of course. And it's, you know, and you're talking about, and I was talking about this with somebody because another referencing a body of work, I was showing a friend of mine a series I did with Tinder, Instagram, Tinder messages. And...
00:41:34
Speaker
You told me about this piece. It's ridiculous. I can't wait. But it's in the, you know, and we were talking and he said something about Aziz Ansari and I was like, you know, I really, I can't, they were like, Oh, cause everybody said, have you read his book? And I was going to, and then I didn't because of that whole, the babe article that came out. And it's like, do I think the babe article was right?
00:41:56
Speaker
I think it could have been done better, but I think it was speaking to something that we don't talk about, and I know he's gonna be fine. He'll come back in a couple years and everything will be fine and everybody will forget, and it's like, so do I think we should cancel him? No, but I, as a personal choice, am choosing not to support someone that I feel like is being a faux feminist. Understood. Do I think of him as on the same level as Louis CK? No.
00:42:23
Speaker
That's a totally different, you know, I think there's levels and I think everything has nuance and we are, people are nuanced. It's been a lot. It's been a lot. It's been a couple of years. But I want to say thank you for joining and coming and visiting and telling us all about your art. We can talk all day. We can talk all night. We'll do it again with cocktails.
00:42:45
Speaker
And, you know, can you tell people where they can find you? So, I am, you can find me at DaphneSteinberg.com. You can find me on Instagram at DaphneSteinbergArt. And I think also it's the same on Facebook if you just do backslash DaphneSteinbergArt. Okay. And all your links will be on the website. All my links are on the website. And then on the podcast website as well.
00:43:12
Speaker
want to join my mailing list, you can send me a message or just say, hey, what's up? I'd like to join your mailing list and I can add you to my mailing list so I can keep you updated. Excellent. Well, everyone, thank you so much Daphna for coming by. Thank you. Everyone. Very free. Thank you for coming and thank you for listening. If you want to share this podcast with a friend, please tell your listener friends all about us. You can find us anywhere you currently listen and we just got added to iHeartMedia. So thank you so much and have a great day.