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S3 Summer Edition - Katie Walter
7 Plays5 hours ago
In this episode of Dial It In, Trygve Olsen and Dave Meyer have a conversation with Katie Walter, a strategic business leader and fractional CMO, about the emerging world of fractional executives. Katie discusses the benefits, challenges, and methodologies of fractional leadership, emphasizing the importance of strategic involvement without the full-time commitment. The episode highlights how companies can leverage fractional executives for pivotal roles, manage business growth, and navigate the changing work landscape. Katie also shares her personal journey into fractional work, offers advice for aspiring fractionals, and promotes the upcoming Fractional Conference.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Dial It In'
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome to dial it in a podcast where we talk to fascinating people about marketing, sales, process improvements and tricks that they use to grow their businesses. Join me, Dave Meyer and Trigby Olson of Busyweb as we bring you interviews on how the best in their fields are dialing it in their organizations.
00:00:26
Speaker
Let's ring up another episode.
Recap of Season 3 with Insights from Katie Walter
00:00:30
Speaker
Welcome to our summer recap from season three of dial it in. We're recapping each week, our favorite episodes and tips and tricks that stood out for our team. Today I'd like to highlight Katie Walter. Katie's insights on the world of fractional executives was incredibly relevant and helpful.
00:00:45
Speaker
It's a new paragraph paradigm in how people, oh shit, let me redo that one.
00:00:52
Speaker
It's a new paragraph. Stop. Plus. Oh, we kicked her out. right, cool. Is that going to hurt us? Okay. Katie Walter.
00:01:06
Speaker
Welcome to the summer recap from season three of Dial It In. We're recapping our favorite episodes and the tips and tricks that stood out for our team.
00:01:15
Speaker
Katie's insights on the world of fractional executives was incredibly relevant and helpful. It's a new paradigm of how people work. And since fractionals are increasingly great connections for our business, it was super enlightening and a great intro into the world of fractional leadership and a great promo for her fractional conference and how to do business with executives that are in their next phase of business.
00:01:38
Speaker
Enjoy the show.
Who is Katie Walter?
00:01:41
Speaker
One of the things that we do a lot in the Dial It In podcast and in our community is engage with fractional executives. And I am super incredibly excited today to have Katie with us, Katie Walter of the Fractional Conference, and she has her own fractional business. And I think best to just say hello, Katie, and welcome.
00:02:08
Speaker
Katie Walter is a strategic business leader, fractional CMO, and a driving force behind the Fractional Conference, an event dedicated to the rapidly evolving world of fractional work.
00:02:19
Speaker
With a background in business growth, leadership, and connecting companies with a high-impact talent, Katie helps organizations navigate the changing landscape of work. She brings deep insights into why businesses are increasingly turning to fractional executives and how professionals can successfully build careers using this model.
00:02:38
Speaker
Whether scaling a startup or optimizing an established business, Katie's expertise in talent strategy, leadership, and adaptability provides valuable takeaways for both business leaders and fractional professionals alike.
00:02:50
Speaker
Ooh, there. Perfect.
Significance of the Upcoming Fractional Conference
00:02:52
Speaker
Katie, welcome. How are you? I'm good. How are you today? Good, good. And as of recording, I think we're recording in March here, t minus how long until the next fractional conference?
00:03:03
Speaker
Seven months and 10 days. Yeah, it's coming up fast. I believe it's October. Five months just went like that. i know. So amazing. i do my My producer isn't reminding me that I do have a advertisement.
00:03:18
Speaker
And the ad today, our sponsor, is actually very dialed into the theme of our of our chat today. As a fractional CMO, your number one goal is to deliver success to each of your clients.
00:03:32
Speaker
With limited time and resources, you need marketing solutions that are data-proven, easy to execute, and repeatable. BusyWeb understands the unique challenges marketing executives face.
00:03:43
Speaker
That's why we offer customized solutions for our fractional CMO partners. You tell us the results you need, and we create the strategy in MarTechStack to get you there. You have a concrete plan, your clients have measurable results, and you look like a rock star.
00:03:57
Speaker
We helped you get there. Everyone
Katie's Journey into Fractional Work
00:03:59
Speaker
wins. Visit fractionaltactical.com to find your tactical marketing partner today. You do the strategy. We get busy. How's that? Our point is in glove. Yeah.
00:04:12
Speaker
So thank you so much, Katie. And I'm so delighted to have you here. I think the first time we actually did meet in person was at the last fractional conference. So you how's life going as a fractional? And I'd love to explore how you wound up here and what you're up to.
00:04:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Life as a fractional is always exciting and one day at a time kind of thing. i So I've been working as a fractional chief marketing officer since the summer of 2019. I guess I'm a veteran in the field.
00:04:42
Speaker
As the kids did before it was cool, right? but Before it was cool. I was working from home before it was cool. Although I worked in a global company before I started working on my own. And so like video meetings were just normal.
00:04:55
Speaker
Neither one of the women who reported to me were in Minnesota. So we did all of our one-on-ones. Yeah. I'd be in my office at my standing desk in, in Megan and Minnesota and they'd be in DC and Toledo and, um, work got done just fine. and yeah So that's the, that has been a, that was an easy transition for me from corporate to home because I was used to it, but I had been in, in corporate for about 16 years.
00:05:23
Speaker
18, if you count the little companies I worked for before that and and was laid off at the end of 2018 and was feeling right. I didn't. um Everyone said, let me know when you land. Let me know. And my thought was, I don't want to land. i want to be for a while and try a lot of different things because 16 years with one company is.
00:05:43
Speaker
a really long time i learned so much and i'm super grateful for the experience that i had there but i was also burned out and my anxiety i didn't even know how i was so anxious i couldn't even perceive my anxiety oh yeah when i left i was just like i'm fine and then it took me a really long time to decompress from that phase of my life and what i realized as i was as I was decompressing was I really wanted to try a self-employment and I wanted to see what it would look like to work for myself and more.
Experiments with Self-employment
00:06:14
Speaker
I was thinking freelance, part-time in kinds of things. I didn't have a language for solopreneurship and fractional at the time. My kids were seven and 10 at the time and I was looking at them going into middle school and interacting and engaging with me on a very different level.
00:06:32
Speaker
And I didn't want to be away or distracted to the extent that I had been. And so those are all things that just made me say, I need to, need variety. need to work less. I need to be less consumed by my work.
00:06:45
Speaker
Let's see what self-employment would look like. And i did a bunch experiments. Sure. Projects. Taking what I could get ah for several months. And then at Sunquite, the stars aligned and I learned about Fractional.
00:06:57
Speaker
I learned about it via an opportunity that someone had on their pipeline for to work in legal technology, which is where I had spent my entire career. So on this just perfect confluence of opportunity,
00:07:10
Speaker
supply and demand came together and I learned about fractional. And what I love about it is that it is embedded in an organization. It has a really wide, you've got a really wide scope or remit. but You're not just there to do a campaign or use a piece of content or view a strategy and then walk away.
00:07:29
Speaker
Everything you do as a fractional is with the intention that it's integrated into the business. That if you leave, your work stays, your work keeps going. you just have, you have different people doing it versus it being a flavor of the month kind of initiative or project, which sometimes consulting and campaigns could feel very not core.
00:07:51
Speaker
It really is a different model and mindset than just like being part-time employed or freelancing at an organization. So can you, and especially being the organizer and CEO of the Fractional Conference, you're one of the luminaries and one of the folks that are really setting, here's what fractional means.
00:08:15
Speaker
So can you tell us if someone, but if you mentioned it in conversation in a, in a cocktail party or whatever, what's the elevator, elevator pitch of why go fractional or what is the difference between being a smart executive that just wants to try a few things and then being an official fractional executive?
Defining Fractional Work
00:08:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think of it, I think of fractional more as a service line that I offer versus an identity or a sort of archetype that I fit in. So like I offer fractional CMO services versus saying I'm a fractional CMO and that's all I go to market as.
00:08:52
Speaker
Got Most of the people who work as fractional leaders do a mix of long-term retainer fractional engagement. And project work. And that might be by choice because they like having a little variety or it could be because they're still building their business and their practice. And so they're taking work that looks interesting and that pays the bills.
00:09:14
Speaker
I don't, in terms of the person or the type of consultant you are, like... As long as you could put a retainer together and offer fractional services, I am happy for you to call yourself fractional.
00:09:26
Speaker
But then let's talk about what fractional leadership is, because I think those services are distinct from consulting engagements or interim and part-time engagements.
Role of Fractional Leadership
00:09:37
Speaker
We define fractional as fractional leadership as our a permanent role on the leadership table, at the leadership table or the org chart, the permanent role that's delivered on a part-time basis.
00:09:53
Speaker
And so a lot of times it's C-suite, but it doesn't have to be C-suite. it it Directors, yeah I've seen fractional managers. You need to have responsibility within the organization, some sort of leadership role.
00:10:04
Speaker
And it has to be something that's not one off like an interim manager. So I when I come in as a fractional CMO, I'm generally there as a 20 to 30 percent full time of a full time employee.
00:10:17
Speaker
And I'll be there for six months to two years. And when I leave, the work that i established keeps going. It's just delivered by someone else. Either they hire full time for the leadership seat or someone in the leadership team is equipped and able to to serve as that executive sponsor of my work. But they've got the people under them to do it the delivery. Got it. So would you say it's more, and I'm sure that this is different for all purposes, but is it often more interim like kickstarting?
00:10:52
Speaker
Do you view fractionals or certainly the work that you've done in the past as being like you training wheels to help a company over a certain hump? and then where I think training wheels is a really good...
00:11:05
Speaker
It's not interim. Interim tends to be more like full-time and with a, there was already someone in the seat. They vacated it and filling the seat until a full-time permanent replacement can be identified.
00:11:18
Speaker
Usually, fractionals are coming in at the first hire at that level in that functional area. And you're establishing the strategic nature of the function rather than filling a seat that already exists.
00:11:31
Speaker
When I've come in I've come in as the first... first marketing hire. I've come in as the first marketing leadership hire. And what tends to be happening is that they're either there, the CEO or a COO is interfacing with an agency to manage a website or implement HubSpot or some other element of step step or an SEO strategy because they're Someone told them they needed that.
00:11:57
Speaker
The agency didn't tell them they didn't, which happens. I know you don't do it, but there are agencies that will sell you an SEO package whether you need it or not. and And so they'll have they'll have all these different parts and pieces of a marketing program that aren't tied together and that aren't laddered to a strategic look at how their market likes to buy.
00:12:19
Speaker
and And or they might have a junior and administrative assistant who coordinates the trade show booth presence and then maybe a social media manager or an agency. And so they put money into marketing, but they don't know if it's working and they don't know if it is actually making a difference.
00:12:36
Speaker
for them. And bringing in a fractional CMO is a really nice training wheel approach to getting strategic marketing at the leadership level, to think about it with the same care and kind his concern that you think about how your finance works or how your operations work or how your sales team functions, and to elevate it to that level of rigor.
00:12:59
Speaker
And then from there, build a team or a set of agency resources that can execute. And when you start to see results on that, you can work with your fractional CMO in this case, but we can talk about it in all functional areas of what is the long-term, what does it look like to take the training wheels off?
00:13:17
Speaker
Maybe it looks like keeping a strategic, the fractional CMO on that limited basis forever. That's sometimes the case. And sometimes it means you've grown so far that you need, if there's enough work for a full-time strategic leader do. Sure.
00:13:32
Speaker
sure I love the training milled analogy, by the way. Did you just come up with that or have you been using it? I'd love to say that I've known it all the time, but I literally just thought of that as worth checking. It seems to make sense. Yeah.
00:13:45
Speaker
And I think there's so many parts of an organization that the they get by without a strategic leader for a long time. um They've got a good controller and they don't need a strategic CFO.
00:13:57
Speaker
They've got a good chief administrative officer and they don't need strategic HR. And they grow without a formal leader. process but that or professional sort of lens on the function. And then you get to a point where you're like, actually, we could grow even better or even faster if we filled this seat with someone who is an expert in this particular area.
00:14:20
Speaker
but or you might have really good director of operation and that needs to be full time, but you could have a fractional COO just to make sure that the business goals are reflected in everything the team does.
00:14:33
Speaker
It's the difference between a consultant which comes in on a project base and then Fractional is really designed to be embedded and to get far deeper and connected with the company and the culture on an ongoing basis.
00:14:49
Speaker
And until maybe it's time to transition into a different way of being perfect. So CMOs are one of the most popular fractional realms, but I know that there's a ton of others. Are there perfect fits or good options if a company is struggling with, let's just say growth at this point, right?
00:15:10
Speaker
Or they're struggling with some big thing and they know that they need someone or something. Are there good like natural fits for fractional roles that people might not initially think of?
Uncommon Fractional Roles
00:15:22
Speaker
You mean for roles? Yeah. And I guess any CX role would be a good spot. So financial officers, operating officers, hiring HR. Yeah. And on the business and how maybe a big services business needs a full-time HR executive? Sure.
00:15:40
Speaker
Something that's not as people heavy wouldn't. i think where it's interesting the roles that have emerged as pro-optional behind the C-suite. That there's mutual friend, Liz Audison, is a chief community cantalorist.
00:15:54
Speaker
She works with businesses that know that engaging their, some population on a really meaningful level, whether it's a set of third-party sales, a third-party sales channel or a customer audience, like creating community within them is part of the strategy to build brand affinity or build brand to build sales activity.
00:16:18
Speaker
Like I never would have thought of that as a fractional leadership role, but it is because you need someone who can look at your business and say, how can this channel be optimized and amplified and leveraged to help you achieve your goal?
00:16:34
Speaker
even better. How do we design a program and then and then manage it and then find the right person to manage it? There's a layer between the idea and the execution, and that's that that's where a fractional, a non-traditional point solution of a fractional rate, like someone like Liz can come in and say, I see what the business is trying to do.
00:16:56
Speaker
here's Here's how we manage it. And here's how we make it happen. So I think there are probably examples like that throughout a business where they need someone who will come in and care deeply about the organization to design and strategize the program, but they don't need to pay that person to manage it.
00:17:17
Speaker
Sure. yeah you don't want to pay You don't want to pay someone $300 an hour to run your community, but you do want to pay them that much to design it and to the metrics and to make sure that it can deliver what it's supposed to deliver. And that's the same with marketing. You don't want to pay me my hourly rate to write your social media posts, but you do want me sitting there to make sure that those social media posts ladder to a strategy, they're effective and that we're pivoting if they don't work.
00:17:47
Speaker
I love that. And I love the, i think
Impact of Fractional Executives
00:17:50
Speaker
the distinction between ah fractional who might do a lot more tactical work and someone who is at the true consultative strategic level is that level of care.
00:18:02
Speaker
who You've, you can only do that by embedding in an organization to some extent, and you can only really affect change by having real experience to bring to the table.
00:18:15
Speaker
Right. So let's flip the conversation a little bit then and get into if someone is looking to become a fractional or they've heard about this and it's hard to certainly this is my frame of reference in my circle of influence right now because we love fractionals. If you find yourself as a like experienced executive.
00:18:35
Speaker
How do you get into being a fractional? Good question. I kind of want to say you just put on your LinkedIn that you're open to fractional work and then you start talking to people.
00:18:46
Speaker
And there's more to it than that, but that's kind of it. Like i am open to fractional is a great way to start. And whether you actually put that on LinkedIn or you just start...
00:18:59
Speaker
reaching out to your network is just having conversation and you'll find your way into it. There are certainly structured programs like when you want to learn the nuts and bolts um starting of starting a fractional practice. John Ars, my partner in the conference, had Voyager University.
00:19:16
Speaker
There are lots of consultants who will help you or there's programs like get your CTO business started in six weeks and for X number of dollars. So there are accelerators and there are classes that you can take, but I think conversation is always the first step.
Exploring Fractional Work: Advice and Challenges
00:19:34
Speaker
Talking to people who are working in this way, finding out the realities of the work, getting a sense for what it takes to get past some of the hangups of being a fractional and And talking to your partner, if you have one, about your financial risk tolerance and what feast or famine really feels and how you're going to support each other through really busy work times and slow times too. What is that going to look and feel like?
00:20:04
Speaker
and Our first step was talking to our financial planner. And I was 40 when I stopped working full time. So I have a lot of time left to work at that point.
00:20:17
Speaker
And we and our kids were very settled in their school communities and in our neighborhood. and And so the conversation we had with our financial planner was, first off, it was like, how much do I need to make? And then he said, what do you want in your life? What do you want that to look like? And I said, i want to stay in this house and I'm going retire on time.
00:20:39
Speaker
So what do I need to do? what do we need to bring in? Every year, every month in order to pay keep paying our bill and to put what's the bare minimum I need to put in my SEP IRA every year so that we can retire when we committed to each other and that we were going to retire.
00:20:57
Speaker
And so we set those numbers and that stability or that sort of baseline of what success looks like is probably the thing that sustains me when things are slow. Yeah.
00:21:09
Speaker
And not like, how much did I grow last year? That feels good. It feels good. The year I had 40% growth. That was amazing. i'm won't have that this year, but I'm going to pay my bills and I'm going to properly fund my myself. So it doesn't matter. Sure.
00:21:27
Speaker
but but I guess the answer to your question, where what do you need to do? And there's lots of practical steps you can take around the nuts and bolts of setting up a fractional or solo career business.
00:21:40
Speaker
I just I think it's also really important to contemplate the financial and emotional experience that you're going to have within your partnership or within your own solo life. And you just published a brilliant Substack article on that. That was very transparent and vulnerable. And that was really cool. So we'll include that in the show notes because I think that's important for people to get that experience.
00:22:03
Speaker
Yeah, we're in a famine. My business is in a famine period right now, and that doesn't feel great, but it's also a good opportunity to reflect on what do I want from my career?
00:22:18
Speaker
For sure. So on that, i think different kinds of fractionals are probably better or more suited to different parts of the business development process. And one of the things that I often hear when I'm just commiserating with my fractional friends is...
00:22:35
Speaker
you know There's always something that comes at you and that's surprising. For a fractional CFO or financial officer, they're probably not really wired to self-promote that much. For a fractional marketing officer, it might be the opposite. The managing the business part might be tricky.
00:22:55
Speaker
How do you guide or i know that there were breakout sessions at the frack conference last year where people could round out their knowledge, but how would you guide someone that, you know, is it by just what they're built for on what they need to round out? Or is there a like checklist that every fractional really needs to keep in mind? The first thought that comes to me when you say that is the book.
00:23:21
Speaker
I think it's a book called Who Not How. Yes. Yes. Yeah. yeah And so there's a, if you have gaps in your skillset or your capabilities, consider hiring how to fill those gaps.
00:23:35
Speaker
It might mean hiring a code to get over whatever her mindset issue is keeping you from thinking you can sell. i promise you, you can sell. i I promise.
00:23:48
Speaker
Yeah. But you have to want it bad enough to get over the hangups that you have about it. and And that's what I've sometimes told people is if you're going to tell me that you just can't do it because you can't because you can't picture yourself selling, then you don't want it bad enough.
00:24:06
Speaker
And the whatever pain you're experiencing in your corporate life has to be worse than the pain of getting putting over your fear of selling to move through it. And that's the same with whatever other other piece of hang up you have. I could never manage a business or I could never do X or you you can either stay stuck.
00:24:25
Speaker
Because what you've got is not that bad or you could hire someone to help you with those things or you could learn how to do it. And like you always have choices. I think, though, that if you don't if you're not wired for handling the ups and downs and uncertainty, then oh all of that is going to make you miserable.
00:24:47
Speaker
For sure. Oh my. Yeah. And ah of course, the obvious answer is you should go to the fractional conference to help round out all of the different things that you need to know. But yeah, I think for sales, if you struggle with sales, you just need to reframe what sales is. Everybody sells everything all the time, right? You need to be okay with raising your hand and saying, i can help and here's how.
00:25:10
Speaker
And you're right. It's a hundred percent like I think being thoughtful about what problems you want to solve and then being able to listen for those problems and then offer to help. And people expect to pay you.
00:25:24
Speaker
like yeah it's really super safe to talk about money and to go into sales meetings expecting them to pay you. I know it sounds weird.
00:25:35
Speaker
and know it sounds weird. But when you work in a corporation for your whole career, you don't get paid. You get in trouble if you're like, hey, that's outside of my job description. You get in trouble if you say, I get a bonus for doing that huge, massive project? know Like that, then you're a bad, you're not a team player.
00:25:54
Speaker
youre You need to look at opportunity as your reward, not actual compensation. There's a full money mindset culture in a corporation when everyone's just getting PSR that right you do have to let go of.
00:26:08
Speaker
And when you're a service provider selling in a service, they expect you... to ask for money. And there's there's probably a few tricks on breaking that down for would-be fractionals, I would imagine. And of course, set me straight if I'm wrong, but one of the ways that you could probably do that is look at what the LinkedIn posts or the employment data is showing. is Okay, for a full-time CMO in this industry, what do they, so let's just say that they normally run about 200,000, right? Right.
00:26:45
Speaker
If I'm going to be a fractional, I'm going to pull back. I'm going to do a third of my time there. So it should be a third of that. Is the math that easy?
00:26:55
Speaker
I would probably, it's something like that. Yeah. I would add because the company's not paying your $200,000 is a total target compensation. so all you need to include that in the calculation. It's really, let's say it's really 275,000 you include bonus and,
00:27:14
Speaker
insurance and i' would probably use that total target comp number rather than the flat salary. But that is certainly a way to justify um or explain the fraction and the ah and how that relates to the amount. he it's It's less money than paying for full time, but it's not cheap.
00:27:35
Speaker
And you wouldn't warn a client that wants cheap. Right. Right.
Strategic Advantage of Fractional Leadership
00:27:40
Speaker
It's also a lower risk investment for them. And so they might pay more monthly, but they can get out of it in 30 or 60 days without it or ah they golden handcuffs payoff.
00:27:56
Speaker
It's less risk in terms yeah, they're just not committing to that resource or that person sort of relationship that they would be with a full-time person.
00:28:07
Speaker
And I think the nice thing, too, about using fractional and for your first strategic leadership hire in that area is that there are so many different types of CMOs or CHROs or CFOs who care about X, Y, or Z. And if you've never had someone sitting at that level in that area, you don't really know what to look for in a CMO.
00:28:31
Speaker
So there are people who are really great with brand and... There are people who are really great with growth marketing and there are people who are really great with the alignment between sales and marketing or operators or heavy marketing ops, sales enablement, all of those things.
00:28:49
Speaker
All of those people rise up to a CMO level. And... Yes, they should all be able to look across the business on via strategic business advisor, not just a silo leader.
00:29:03
Speaker
But there is also just different flavors of CMO that count because of that expertise. And so if you can have someone, if you can just get used to having someone sitting at the leadership table with that marketing mindset, over time, you might say, leadership here needs, the next leader needs to be X.
00:29:23
Speaker
or needs to be really care deeply about why. And you can make a much safer full-time hire when you've had that fractional expertise sitting there for a while.
00:29:34
Speaker
For sure. And in it's especially as we're setting what the guidelines are for committing an engagement, there are probably a few things that you've seen your just other folks in the community run down that they probably shouldn't have.
Pricing Strategies for Fractional Work
00:29:51
Speaker
Like I would imagine one of the things that you probably shouldn't focus on is an hourly rate.
00:29:56
Speaker
Yeah. let's say We can do hourly and I'm going to guess, and I've heard of a few folks that have been offered this and wisely turned it down, but coming in for a fraction or a part of equity or something, which doesn't really pay the bills. So are there gotchas like that to be careful of?
00:30:13
Speaker
Yeah. So full transparency for the first four years, I was a fractional, I charged by the hour. i Lots of people start that way.
00:30:24
Speaker
sure um Now I charge a monthly retainer based on roughly a percentage of an FTE. There's still a time-based component to it, but that protects me. and the client from it just put some parameters around me, but it's not ah turning in a timesheet, then rate variables billing, which is not good for anybody either.
00:30:44
Speaker
And that's calculated just exactly the way you described it. What would it cost to hire a full-time CMO for a business of that size in that market? So the total cost of ownership and and then fractioning it out.
00:30:57
Speaker
So that's my pricing strategy now. i was recently offered equity in a business and said, because I liked the founder, I said, oh I'll meet with you a couple of times a month.
00:31:11
Speaker
So that we're continuing to work together, but I won't have any deliverables and I won't have X, Y, or Z. And then if you want to take it up from there, there is a price for it. So you don't have to say no to equity right away, but you have to have very clear boundaries.
00:31:26
Speaker
And you I don't want to be on the hook for anything if I'm not getting paid every month. That's really tricky. And then hourly, like I said, hourly definitely gets a bad rap. I don't think it's ideal, but i wouldn't judge you if you're doing hourly. But I think one of the issues with hourly is that you don't have credit. It's not predictable for you or the client. So that's just a practical issue.
00:31:51
Speaker
It also signals to them that you are not on the team in the same way. cause you're all the other leaders are salaried. and i'm looking You want to show up like the salaried employee too, even though there's boundaries on what you do.
00:32:07
Speaker
And I feel like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth there because you're not full-time, but you want to behave like a full-time employee. And that comes down to setting a really good plan.
00:32:18
Speaker
Like the first three months of my engagements are generally planning and quick wins. But there's a, that's easy to spell that. And then after that, think it's a set deliverable package for the most part. And then beyond that, it's where we were working the plan.
00:32:37
Speaker
um And I only commit to things that I can deliver within scope that we've already agreed to. So that's, it's an ongoing conversation. If they want me to do more then that, then we talk about raising the scope.
00:32:53
Speaker
So you can, and that's something that you should probably have a lever for right is okay, this is my general level of commitment, but if there's a special project or if something comes up or if it's clear, I'm going to really need to be, instead of a fifth time or of my time, I'm going to need to go a half time or maybe even three quarter time for that.
00:33:12
Speaker
We're going to need to recompensate. Okay. Yeah. And I think that yeah ah there there's another psychological aspect to hourly and, and it's, there's a power dynamic that you set up with the client when you're an hourly worker that you're, um, there's something about turning in a time card that,
00:33:33
Speaker
Again, doesn't feel like it doesn't feel executive.
Building Client Relationships
00:33:37
Speaker
But we had a panel at the first frack where we had pairs of business owners and their fractional leader talk about the relationship that they had and what makes a good relationship between the leader and the fractional.
00:33:52
Speaker
And everyone on that panel said it should be a peer-like relationship. It should feel, it shouldn't be buyer to client or client to vendor. It should, you should show up like you're part of the team. You should talk to me like we're equals. We should be callings. This should feel like a peer relationship.
00:34:08
Speaker
And in my experience with some owners who had wanted to see my hours, it has, that has felt like a power play. I didn't feel like a peer. I didn't feel like, like a trusted colleague.
00:34:21
Speaker
And so we're checking your work. So did have, you said you would. Yeah. Right. And yeah. yeah Or that was what the voices in my head would say. and i just I think getting out of the hourly just sets you up psychologically to show up as a peer.
00:34:38
Speaker
There is not weird power dynamics. And if someone's insisting on seeing a time card, that's a red flag to say, what are the other cultural issues that might be going on here that might not make this a great working environment for me?
00:34:51
Speaker
I love where this conversation is going. Let's talk more about common red flags, because I think it's important to know when you might need to either realign or maybe even start looking in at an exit from a relationship or maybe not say yes to a relationship that's just getting started.
00:35:08
Speaker
So yeah what are the big red flags or the things to be careful of? So we talked about our like insisting on an arrangement. I had one that I walked away from in the proposal stage because he said, my CFO is going to insist that you provide me with a guarantee on how many leads your programming will deliver. oh Sure. In the first, right. And look, but part of the planning and the and A, figuring out what lead volume you need is part of the strategic planning.
00:35:36
Speaker
So I can't, no, can't guarantee you that. Right. And if that's what you need, and you probably want to talk to someone who is... focus on... You need improvement setter or something, right? Yeah, there are lots of the agencies and SDR and BDR outsourcing that will promise you leads.
00:35:53
Speaker
Again, they'll sell it to you whether it's the right thing for you or not. And a fractional CMO can help you assess whether that's the right thing for you or not. And I never heard from him again, which was probably the right thing. I can't promise something that I...
00:36:09
Speaker
won't deliver and that I don't know is the right thing for their business. Right. I think another red flag, think for me, a red flag is when people in my network who I worked with in other capacities will reach out and they're like, I need, i need someone to help me with the emails for this program.
00:36:25
Speaker
i have the list figured out. I have this figured out. I have that figured out. I'm like, that's just not work that I necessarily want to do. And it's not, I'd be, I want to figure out if you need the email before, before we talk about writing the email.
00:36:38
Speaker
um so that those are a few things where i have said i don't think this is the right opportunity for me right um there's a there's sort of a point i think there's also that point of when is it time when is the engagement reaching its natural conclusion and is an interesting question and when are they running this into business as usual versus having the outside resource and Me, it's often when it feels like I'm doing the same. I'm leading the work, but it's the same work every month or every quarter. Like we've gotten to a place where it's rinse and repeat.
00:37:12
Speaker
The strategy is working. Now I can hand it to someone else who can run it and their business might need to innovate in how they do the work. two or three years down the road. And then either they've got they've bet the talent in place to do that or they'll come back to me. But there is a point where, yes, we've gotten this perfected and the team can just run with it.
00:37:33
Speaker
Or if there's a change in strategy where um we were going after enterprise sales and the business now on e-commerce downloads of the software, that might not be my sweet spot. And maybe we need to find the right person to do that. So I'm standing open to where the business is going and where my interests are when i worked i said i worked at the same company for 16 years but i changed roles every two years or more or more i get i like variety i think for the first 14 years i was there did not have the same person do my performance review two years in a row because the manager changed jobs or i changed jobs it just it was constant change and
00:38:18
Speaker
like That all leads us to the big reason why we're chatting.
Community and Networking at the Fractional Conference
00:38:23
Speaker
let's talk about the conference. Let's talk about the conference because i i don't think I've ever been in a room where there was more energy, more just everybody was rooting for each other.
00:38:35
Speaker
And it's just, it's a community and it really is a movement. So a little bit about the Fractional Conference. And again, it's at fractionalconference.com, correct? Yeah.
00:38:46
Speaker
It is. Yep. That is the URL. Yeah. so Yeah. So we're coming out, we're planning for our third annual fractional conference in Minneapolis, October 27th through 29th. We're aiming for about 350 people in the room.
00:39:00
Speaker
This was a, an experiment. that works our mutual friend john arms and rob smith sat down at lunch one day and said there should be a conference for fractionals and we should create it and i think did you were on the initial planning group as well well yeah and then we're out of the country during the day it was so bad so we so a bunch of people filled it saw a need and filled it which is great, right? and And it was the experiment of, can we get a room full of professionals together? We got 192 people in the room or in the building, two sets of breakout tracks, main stage production, beautiful, like just a beautiful production, but then also a beautiful community of people. Like I have never...
00:39:52
Speaker
like you said, just been in a room full of people who are so happy to be there and cheering for each other and wanting the best for each other. And I did a lot of corporate events in my career and sales meetings and leadership meetings. And I've been in rooms full of 200 people who weren't happy to be there.
00:40:10
Speaker
And this feels really different when people are are saying, I want to be here and I want to grow and I want to invest in myself. one of our One of our attendees, said she left that first meeting and texted her husband to say, I found my people.
00:40:25
Speaker
yeah and And so that's the power of it. There is lots of really good educational content. Some people say there's even too much good educational content and we're just like dumping content on people. So we're trying to get that right. But there super duper a lot of value you get out tangible educational content, especially um i think for brand new fractionals, there's a lot to learn.
00:40:48
Speaker
And then as you've been more experienced as a fractional or a solopreneur, sort of more generally EOS implementer, of business coaches and consultants get a lot of value over the conference too. yeah It's more integrating and sharing what you know and what you've learned, connecting with people.
00:41:05
Speaker
we want, we're all in a referral business, whether we're fractionals, agencies, solo, solo producers of other stripes. And so if we're all selling to small and mid-sized businesses, it makes a lot of sense for us to have a place to get to know each other so that we all have a full quiver of referral partners looking out for us and that we can give to our clients as well.
00:41:29
Speaker
I love it. And one of the things that I thought was surprising as I was wandering the halls last time in 2024 is it wasn't just fractionals either. It was also organizations that either had fractionals and were trying to support them or were fractional curious thinking about expanding into the space.
00:41:47
Speaker
Yeah. And there are a lot of or there are a lot of businesses that place fractional engagements. And so if you're listening to this and you you're thinking, I would love to work as a fractional, but I don't want to have to run a whole business. There are groups like in the Twin Cities, Lakeside h r places, fractional HR leaders, authentic places, fractional CMOs.
00:42:09
Speaker
There are people like Chris Taylor or Chris Ortega who are at our conference who do CFOs. who have CFOs that they sell on behalf of. And so there are there's a middle ground there that you can either be a 1099 or an employee, but working in that part-time basis.
00:42:26
Speaker
Wow. And I know that... the conference itself has not just educational opportunities, but there's also, of course, a lot of networking.
00:42:36
Speaker
But then this year, there were also hives that you could break out, like study groups together almost where you would build the community.
Connecting with Katie Walter
00:42:45
Speaker
And I'm part of the hive and I'm still meeting with my hive group. So you really are building and fostering an ongoing community.
00:42:52
Speaker
Yeah. And that is, I mentioned Liz Otteson earlier in this session, that's her brilliance and genius to say, let's like create space for people to have a small group to connect with during the conference ri two or three times and and process what they're learning and what they're hearing and what their actions does are.
00:43:09
Speaker
And then let's make it really easy for them to keep meaning throughout the year. Cool. That's amazing. So as we go through, katie One of the things that we always do on the podcast is we try to make it easy for our guests to nakedly self-promote.
00:43:26
Speaker
So how do we find you? How do we connect? Of course, going to fractionalconference.com and signing up, but how do people find you? Yeah, and you can find me on LinkedIn, Katie Walter on LinkedIn.
00:43:37
Speaker
I am also, my business website is www.trellis.live. And that's, so that's my fractional CMO and consulting website. And I'm on sub staff as Katie Walter.
00:43:51
Speaker
and you can read about my, you can read all my vulnerability there about being a solopreneur and the work I'm doing to foster self-sovereignty in myself and in our Canadian culture.
00:44:02
Speaker
Amazing. Thank you, Katie. It's been an absolute pleasure having you with us. This has been another episode of Dial It In, produced by Andy Watowski and Nicole Fairclough. With apologies to Tony Kornhauser, we will also try to do better next time.