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S3 Summer Edition - Sheri Stolp
8 Plays7 hours ago
In this episode of Dial It In, Trygve Olsen and Dave Meyer have a conversation with Sheri Stolp about the basics of HR management. Chosen as a favorite episode by producer Nicole, the discussion delves into setting expectations, documenting policies, and distinguishing between performative perks and real leadership. Sheri emphasizes that culture is not about surface-level perks but about how leaders show up during challenging times, balancing compliance with compassion. She also shares insights into the impact of AI on hiring practices, intergenerational workplace dynamics, and best practices for terminating employees with empathy. Additionally, the episode features anecdotes and practical advice for improving communication and handling tough conversations effectively. The talk concludes with a reminder that effective HR is about understanding and supporting the human element in business.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Dial It In' Podcast
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome to Dial It In, a podcast where we talk to fascinating people about marketing, sales, process improvements, and tricks that they use to grow their businesses. Join me, Dave Meyer, and Trigby Olson of BusyWeb as we bring you interviews on how the best in their fields dialing it in for their organizations.
00:00:26
Speaker
Let's ring up another episode.
Revisiting HR Basics with Sherry Stolp
00:00:30
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Dial It In Summer Style, where we're bringing back some of our favorite episodes from the last season as chosen by our crack staff.
00:00:42
Speaker
Today's episode is chosen by our producer Nicole, and it was about Sherry Stolp and the basics of HR, which is difficult for me because... I'm basically a walking HR nightmare.
00:00:54
Speaker
So some of the things that Nicole had identified as being really helpful that Sherry had outlined when Sherry said, you don't need a 50 page handbook, but you do need to set the tone, set expectations and document your policies, especially around how you hire, how you fire.
00:01:11
Speaker
and how you treat people. Sherry went on to say that culture is not about potlucks and ping pong tables. It's about how you show up when things get hard and how you can lead with compassion and still be compliant.
00:01:25
Speaker
Compliance and compassion are not mutually exclusive. So from setting expectations to documenting policies, Sherry broke down the essentials in a way that feels doable and not overwhelming.
00:01:37
Speaker
And she really calls out the difference between performative perks and real leadership. So Sherry is a great personal friend. So I was tickled that somebody else thought enough of her to call her out as a favorite episode. So please enjoy and we'll see you next week.
00:01:52
Speaker
Hello, fellow workplace proximity associate. Are you having an acceptable day? I am having a very acceptable day full of nothing but appropriate things and comments and thoughts.
00:02:07
Speaker
I am hoping that you have a non-denominational appropriate holiday season of your choosing and that you also enjoy something else.
00:02:20
Speaker
I am very happy to be reciprocating your seasonal greeting and reciprocate in kind. I accept your reciprocation and thank you.
00:02:30
Speaker
Welcome. And wish you have an appropriate, you know what I got? We're really bad at this. HR is not our enemy. We should embrace the fact that we have an HR person on today and hopefully she can help help us do this a little bit better. Your hands full today.
00:02:47
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. But let's try and be appropriate. Dave, who's our sponsor today?
Sponsorship and BusyWeb Anniversary
00:02:52
Speaker
Our sponsor today is WeFix HubSpot. Is your HubSpot portal cluttered and inefficient?
00:02:58
Speaker
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00:03:17
Speaker
Don't let a disorganized system slow you down. Visit WeFixHubSpot.com to schedule your complimentary consultation and start transforming your HubSpot portal today. Excellent. Thank you.
00:03:30
Speaker
um It's notable that we're having an HR professional today because I realized that I was told and the 26th of this month that we're recording, it will be 10 years at BusyWeb.
00:03:44
Speaker
And that our HR department celebrated by getting a completely second drawer for me for my HR file. Oh, yay. Because I am i am a walking HR nightmare. In order to ah facilitate that, I think we we finally had to break down. I think we're 60 episodes in it.
00:04:01
Speaker
Talk about at what point in your business is the time to bring in ah HR professionals to help you manage your people and help your business together to grow. So I'm blessed in that the only HR professional I know who will tolerate me on any level has decided to be our guest
Sherry Stolp's Expertise and Journey
00:04:19
Speaker
today.
00:04:19
Speaker
She is the president of her own organization. She's described as a skillful and creative leadership development research coach and facilitator of team building. conflict management and customer relations workshops.
00:04:33
Speaker
She is known for helping leaders improve their individual performance development and career satisfaction through impactful coaching engagements. ah In addition, she is a course author and adjunct professor at Cardinal Stritch in their MBA program, the areas of human resource strategy, business ethics, and organizational leadership.
00:04:54
Speaker
Additionally, she's a certified administrator for DDI, Laminger, and Achieve Global and presents at various conferences and seminars throughout the U.S. All that as her professional ah bona fides. She is also dragged down by having me as a friend. Please welcome Sherry Stoll.
00:05:11
Speaker
Oh, thank you, Trickby. Thank you. So first question that I wanted to ask you for a long time, you were the HR person at a company called GNK Solutions in the late 90s.
00:05:25
Speaker
Why didn't you hire me We should have, I think that was our our fault. When I think back to that time, we had a really great team and knowing who you are and what you're about.
00:05:37
Speaker
I think when you build strong, cohesive teams, you need to inject sense of humor. There's so much seriousness and so much compliance and things that I guess tax the supervisor population today.
00:05:50
Speaker
You need someone that's willing to have some fun, get serious when needs to be serious and has a good work ethic. And I know you bring that. And most of the leaders today, fortunately, that I work with do bring that.
00:06:01
Speaker
The work ethic isn't the problem. i I don't claim that the comedy is good, just that there's plenty of it. So tell us a little bit about your work like at the Stolp Group and ah where where's your focus on as you are an an HR gun for hire?
00:06:18
Speaker
Can I say that? An HR denominational weapon? You can say that. Just don't bring that weapon. There's no weapon in the workplace. ah a A useful utilitarian and philosophical tool for hire.
00:06:30
Speaker
There you go. I think about back in the day, and and we all maybe went through this, we were trying to uncover where is our path in life? What profession am I going to take on? And maybe some of you out there are also parents and you're trying to coach your are kids on this.
00:06:47
Speaker
And unfortunately, the career services centers, although they try and have the right intent, they don't always guide people into what career path is right for them. And back in that day, I remember thinking about business being intriguing, fascinating, trying to think about what could I provide the world that I was passionate about to give back and to let them be the best that they could be.
00:07:10
Speaker
And so somewhere along the line in the business school, I was told that human resources was a major. And back in that day, and I'm dating myself, but if you remember it was personnel and it changed at some point into HR.
00:07:25
Speaker
And I think rightfully, i think personnel was your transactional getting compliance, taken care of payroll and benefits work. And then it moved into, no, we offer more strategic insight for a business owner or for a team leader, for an individual, maybe wanting to improve themselves.
00:07:43
Speaker
So I was lucky enough after college to be employed by Fortune 100 and Fortune 500 businesses. And i learned very much and very quickly that you need to be focused and dedicated because you're affecting a large population.
00:07:59
Speaker
And they also have very hefty budgets. So you have Cadillac HR programs. um You don't just interview someone with a blank sheet of paper and ask where are you going to be in five years?
00:08:09
Speaker
You have behavioral interviewing models. You have leader jump starts for executives that start and you want to assimilate them quickly. You might have a training program that's three months in length, just onboard effectively.
00:08:24
Speaker
And what I thought about somewhere along that line was, how can I utilize these tools and provide them to a small to mid-sized company that might not need a full-time HR salaried professional?
00:08:37
Speaker
Some company out there that's growing quickly and the CEO is trying to figure out, how do I manage it? It's getting too big for me to make all the decisions. And around that time, all those kind of thoughts were going on in me.
00:08:49
Speaker
I was getting at holiday parties or in the neighborhood, walking with friends, questions like, hey, I got something to ask you about the company I work for. I'm having a struggle with this coworker. um Or I don't know why my boss is not giving us PTO when we're paid out at the end of every year and we're not getting it.
00:09:08
Speaker
So I was starting to see this sort of surge of need. and in two thousand And in 2006, I had an unfortunate pivotal moment in my life. My husband of 15 years passed away unexpectedly, tragically in a snowmobile accident.
00:09:24
Speaker
He was up in the upper peninsula of Michigan with a bunch of guys from college. And not only was I in my early thirties and a young widow, I was actually also trying to figure out what does this do for me, even in my career path, a two income earner, wanted to start a family.
00:09:42
Speaker
And at the end of that journey, I thought, if I don't hang out a shingle now and try to make a goal of this, I'm never going to succeed. And so on a wing and a prayer 2008, I left corporate and I was scared as all could get out. but You think about this moment, right? and And of course it was in the middle of a recession.
00:10:01
Speaker
I had so many people telling me, are you sure this is the year, right, Sherry? You really want to make this work. I said, I'm just going to go back to something my father instilled in me early in my life, that when you give passion and you do things as best as you can, and you look back on mistakes and say, okay, I know I've learned that. Let's not do it again.
00:10:23
Speaker
you might actually hit the American dream. And i think you can, with a little bit of luck sprinkled in, get to that American dream. So in 2008, I had a sprinkling of clients and I've managed through the years to maintain the business while adding new clients.
00:10:41
Speaker
And I always say I treat my clients' businesses as my own. um So that's authentic delivery. It's leaving money on the table from time to time and kind of questioning that and saying, is that really what I need to be doing?
00:10:54
Speaker
Yes, it is. It's also by hearing their pain points and not just taking something off the shelf and delivering on it, but really listening and offering the right solution.
00:11:06
Speaker
So from a Stolper perspective and the long answer that I always give, and apologize for the long-windedness, I would say i you have to be strong in delivery coming through on your word.
00:11:20
Speaker
Also being listening in almost to a fault to find out what specifically, even when the client doesn't know how articulate it, manage that delivery for them.
00:11:33
Speaker
That's amazing as a journey, Sherry. And actually our journey or my journey at BusyWeb is similar. I started BusyWeb in 99. So we're actually 25 years old now, but wow I went full-time 2008.
00:11:49
Speaker
um Right in the middle of that same environment. And i think one of the coolest parts about starting in a economic downturn, an intense economic downturn like that, is you're immensely ready for any adversity that comes ahead.
00:12:07
Speaker
And I think we're in that similar spot
Work-from-Home Trends and HR's Role
00:12:10
Speaker
right now. So as you're looking and as you're working with HR teams with smaller businesses, like you said, are there common themes that we're seeing going into this period that you had maybe when you started up or are things different now that work from home is much bigger?
00:12:29
Speaker
ah great question. I think a lot about 2020 and the COVID world we all experienced. And at that time, lot of employers were more old school. It was butts in seats. It was everybody come in on the day, Monday through Friday.
00:12:44
Speaker
And it was really awakening for America and I think the world that we could be trusted to work remotely and still be productive. And so where I see it today, the challenge that I'm envisioning to going forward 2025 and 26 are these very profitable businesses. And I'm hearing very strong forecasts ahead for 2025 that about they're worried about these lofty, grandiose structures where their leastri lease are so expensive and the whole world still wants to work from home.
00:13:21
Speaker
So ah the biggest challenge for hr is how to understand what the employees need and then share that with the business owners and find a hybrid solution. And what I'm seeing even today is the value of listening.
00:13:36
Speaker
So it's employees saying, I can give you three days and in here on site, as long as I can select those three days based on my work home environment and things such like that.
00:13:47
Speaker
and Employers that are are sticklers about you have to be here four days and nobody has Friday work from home. you're going to see turnover. We have to be realistic. People have opportunities.
00:13:58
Speaker
It's super easy to go on, whether you're on Indeed or LinkedIn. The hiring is only going to continue in 2020. I've known you for a long time and I think you've danced around this.
00:14:10
Speaker
and
00:14:12
Speaker
HR as a concept has evolved over time from personnel to recruitment, to benefits administration, to employee terminations and disciplines and all the icky stuff.
00:14:28
Speaker
It's that it's the connective tissue that, It is beyond just the work product and delivering the work product or the selling and delivering on the selling. It's the connective tissue that really holds a business together.
00:14:41
Speaker
And it's so much more dynamic than just one thing. And so where does a business start when they realize yeah they've started, they've grown? When is it time to bring in an outside expert?
00:14:53
Speaker
I get that question actually quite often. And what I suggest is when the owner or the CEO feels the need. Now people say that's like a lawyer telling you it depends. That's not where I'm going with it. What I want to say is they will know when it gets to be too much to have the pulse on every activity going on in their business.
00:15:13
Speaker
They will know when they don't want to be a part of every single interview candidate for an opening they have. Typically that goes somewhere around the 25 employee mark.
00:15:24
Speaker
Prior to that, they'll have their accountant or a payroll person running that side of their business. But at 25, 30 employees, they may start hiring their first layer of a supervisor or team leader that they're entrusting.
00:15:38
Speaker
And so you have to realize then you better be hiring appropriately because you won't be at that table making those decisions, having those conversations. So it's so important. It's imperative. And a lot of what I do with small business owners is we talk about what is in your interview model.
00:15:56
Speaker
Do you have the right questions? Are you asking the right but ah questions and getting the right insights to hire the highest caliber talent? Because once you do that, it's easy.
00:16:07
Speaker
They will call you when they need to. they You entrust them to say, okay, they know the level. Now I better call the boss. And you're able to then expand markets. You're able to focus on the quality of your product or service offering.
00:16:21
Speaker
You're also able to do other things like public speak or generate more publicity for your business. So other the revenue streams occur, but it's the hiring. It's the most important thing i think an employer needs to think about.
AI in Hiring Processes: Boon or Bane?
00:16:35
Speaker
but their and I've been waiting for a while to get you on the pod because I want to ask this this question is all the people that I know that are looking for jobs.
00:16:46
Speaker
what and they're not getting a response. It's usually because a larger company is using a software tool to weed people out. Yes. The intent behind it is that hiring managers really only going to look at the absolute best qualified people.
00:17:02
Speaker
But there's been a big gamification of that, I think, so that people understand that. So they're just ginning up stuff in order to get past the first gatekeeper.
00:17:14
Speaker
And I've always felt that loses a sense of authenticity of really who you're going to be hiring because statistically you spend more time with the people that you work with or at least waking hours than your actual family.
00:17:27
Speaker
So what's your take on AI in the workplace? Especially, that's a big question. So as it relates to hiring. Do you think, how is AI affecting hiring models? That's an excellent question. in AI is the most impactful and dangerous phenomenon that not just HR is experiencing, but all disciplines.
00:17:50
Speaker
What I'm finding is that Already candidates, as you just spoke of, are realizing there's software tools like ResumeX, for instance, or there's Taleo and some of these programs that limit the amount of human time that a person needs to do to look at all the resumes. So if you have, say, in a software engineer resume, maybe a little blurb about Unix.
00:18:17
Speaker
And again, I might be dating myself. This goes back years that I recalled that brand. that might be ah buzzword where that software generates a, okay, this candidate is good for this hiring process.
00:18:32
Speaker
So these HR screeners or the hiring manager, if it's a smaller business, will get a subset of all the ones that came in the door or through the email. So it's a frustration in my mind because you're missing and a lot of great candidates if you only solely rely on those software tools.
00:18:53
Speaker
I'd also say that the whole automated process with ai is very impersonal. I was at a client last week, holiday week, it was the last Monday.
00:19:03
Speaker
And he said to me, my HR manager is stressing that we need to use the AI tool to do the first pass of interviews. And I said, this is interesting. I'm in this field, but I'd like to see this.
00:19:17
Speaker
I've heard about it, but I'd like to see it. So I sat and watched on their screen and it's, it looks human. It's eerie, but is certainly a robotic yeah a and is showcasing like an interview and they're asking questions.
00:19:34
Speaker
And I said to the owner, I said, what if I gave a completely crazy answer? What if I was recognizing as a candidate that you were doing this and I was offended? And I thought maybe I'd answer maybe in medical terms for a software position.
00:19:48
Speaker
And he said they wouldn't get the job. And I said, this is terrible because we're still human out here looking for a career. And when you start playing with you're not worth our time, you might be losing good caliber talent.
00:20:03
Speaker
And so he thought about that. I actually have to circle back with him in two weeks. We're having a lunch and checking in on what did they decide to do? I told him I didn't think it was the right course. I'm okay with the Resumex software as long as you put in the right filters, but having an actual rope interview the first pass of candidates, that just did it for me.
00:20:26
Speaker
it It also feels dangerous because a lot of the AI tools out there, every a AI tool out there has an inherent bias based on the content that it's brought out and that it's trained on. So you're probably seeing less diverse populations, probably people that are very strictly aligned to what the job role is asking for.
00:20:50
Speaker
And you're going to miss some really great people in that case. Yes. How do you guard against that bias or some of the issues that AI just introduces? I think I would focus more on the traditional hiring model.
00:21:04
Speaker
And I'd go back to the behavioral interview questions that have been predictive validity, statistically proven, answered for the job fit itself. And so I do do a lot of work with Lohminger. It's ah an actual program where we do card sorts.
00:21:20
Speaker
to determine the competencies necessary for ah an effective or quality hire. And if you have those right questions in place, whether you want them to fill it out online or you do a, I would recommend a face-to-face could be over Zoom or Teams, but I do feel that you gain the best, ah statistically best result.
00:21:41
Speaker
If you're going to use AI, use it in another type of process. What I see a lot in HR would be an organization, say, wanting to put together a sexual harassment policy.
00:21:52
Speaker
Back in the day, we had to figure that out ourselves and create for hours and hours this practice. But what you can do with AI now is just type in that question and you get 20 different sexual harassment policies that you can choose to use.
00:22:08
Speaker
But I'd again strongly recommend having your legal look at the final product before you enact it in your culture. Because AI, as we know, acts like confidently and acts like this is the truth, but you might be missing on some key compliance concerns, especially if it's a certain state in our country like California or Washington, even Minnesota.
00:22:33
Speaker
I think ki my favorite case of ah AI abuse was, what was the name of Donald Trump's lawyer? Michael Cohen. Oh, yes. He used AI to cite case law. And one of the cases that he that he gave his lawyers that they ended up putting in an actual brief for court was finders versus keepers.
00:22:52
Speaker
Bro. Not. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great example of that. Relying on it as that's legal or true. Yeah. I think HR specifically is it's, I think people who do the hr role are, they take the role not because they want to be the whole monitor or the narc, it's because they genuinely care about people. And,
00:23:16
Speaker
This is such a, the a AI is such a classic example of taking that off the table is taking that human element off the table just for the sake of, of trying to speed things up.
00:23:26
Speaker
All right. So that's the first part. So let's go to the, let's go to the last part then what's the best way to fire somebody? but but I love this question. Would it be on a Monday or a Friday? i Another great question.
Navigating Employee Terminations
00:23:39
Speaker
Personally, i would suggest Monday um if you are going to terminate and people say, why is that? It gives that individual four additional days that week to start looking for employment.
00:23:51
Speaker
The weekends might be a little tricky or no one's really answering any calls even if you want to call into the business. Monday gives them a little bit of a, okay, now I have some time here this week to get focused.
00:24:02
Speaker
um The best way to terminate, I would say, is so that the employee knows it's coming. There's an asterisk to that answer, and that would be with gross misconduct. Someone that steals from you, punches out a boss, does something so egregious that they have to go at that moment.
00:24:18
Speaker
But most of the time, it's typically performance or behavioral based. And what I suggest companies do is first train their supervisors proactively.
00:24:30
Speaker
So when the issues pop up, they know what to do. Now, in a larger organization, they have strenuous processes, which includes a verbal, a written, maybe two additional writtens, and then a final, maybe suspension, could be paid, could be unpaid, and then termination.
00:24:47
Speaker
In a smaller business, I would just say, make sure the employee has a feeling that they know they're not performing or doing the right thing. And then when you have that final sit down, it's an entire shot to the system.
00:25:00
Speaker
And most at that ah of those scenarios don't end up in a going postal scenario. Those that just lift the rug out or they have terrible people skills as a supervisor and sort of a are afraid to have those tough conversations all the way along the way.
00:25:16
Speaker
That's when you get at this, oh my gosh, they're coming back. And I'll share a quick little story and Trigme might have heard this as we've worked together. um but But early in my career, I worked for a Snap-on tool.
00:25:30
Speaker
Some of you have heard of it. Some of you even have Snap-on tools in your your garages today. Great organization. I was out in the plant settings in some rural parts of of Wisconsin, Delavan and East Troy.
00:25:43
Speaker
and Some of you that are music lovers may have even been to East Troy to go to a few concerts at Alpine Valley. But anyway, plant was right there. And we had a rough and tough group of guys that worked. It was a manufacturing diagnostic tools for cars. So when they put a car up on a hoist and they use like computer analyzers or scans to see what's wrong, we actually produced that equipment in the plant.
00:26:08
Speaker
And I was the HR manager and thought I knew i got out of college. I'm going to save the world and so excited. My first job. And I'm sitting there and that the supervisor walked in and said, you know what, Sherry, we're going to have to terminate Roy. And this is about eight in the morning. And I said, what happened? And he worked the third ship.
00:26:26
Speaker
He had fight with his fellow coworker. Now I knew about Roy and he had a kind of a bad reputation. And I said, all right. So the plant manager and the manager of that group and I, we got into the conference room and we brought Roy. ah And he sat down and he said, I know I'm here. You're canning me. And the plant manager was fairly new. and I looked to him thinking he'd say something, but he didn't.
00:26:50
Speaker
So here I was all of like 24 years old and I was the spokesperson. And I said, Roy, unfortunately, we know an incident occurred on the third shift last night and with that altercation, it's triggered a termination of employment.
00:27:04
Speaker
You've also had several situations here in your file. Even though I wasn't here, I've read about them and and we're going to unfortunately depart ways. And he pushed his sort of chair away from the conference table and he said,
00:27:17
Speaker
That's fine. You know what I'm gonna do? gonna go down to the corner bar, take a couple of captain and coax with me, go home, get my sawed off shotgun and come back and blow up the place.
00:27:29
Speaker
And he said it just like that. And I looked at the plant manager, I looked at the supervisor, And I just said, we're going to need you to exit now. And we're going to walk you to your locker and you're going to take your things. And we're going to do this as a serious threat.
00:27:43
Speaker
So we're going to leave right now. And we went to his, we had safety shoes and things because it's manufacturing and he grabbed everything and he's banging the lockers as he walks out. He gets in his jacked up truck and it was like a rust bucket of a truck.
00:27:58
Speaker
And he pulled out and then you could hear screeching well all the way down our industrial park. I got on the horn to corporate. The plant manager got on the horn to the police. And a rural town, everybody, they're just twiddling their thumbs out there. And I'm sorry to say it like that, but boy, this was like the issue of the century, right?
00:28:15
Speaker
So we had 30 cops and patrols and everybody surrounding the business park. And of course, we're like looking out, is the truck coming back? And sure enough, he came back.
00:28:26
Speaker
He had one in the back of his truck and they nabbed him before he even got to our driveway that came up to our plant. But I think about that and I think about learning that in my 20s.
00:28:38
Speaker
And I say this sometimes in in ways to inform that you just never know. And this guy actually worked there for 10 years. And I'm not sure what kind of a life he led outside. I think it was really his life to work there.
00:28:53
Speaker
So I tell employers, please be honest with people all the way along. And then when things don't work they know, yeah, it was coming. So that would be my answer to that.
00:29:06
Speaker
Wow. and and And invest in vests, right? Yes. Yes. That's unbelievable. don't think I've ever heard that whole story. Well, okay. On the lighter side, i would imagine that this is, it's slightly different on virtual ah engagements or people that are employed or remote, right?
00:29:25
Speaker
Yes. Do you have any examples of maybe things that have gone either really well or funny things that you've had to mitigate? And I'll start with a story of my own. yeah I was in corporate communications for a large bank, one of one of the top five in the country.
00:29:41
Speaker
And as part of this running corporate communications, I had to deal with some HRE things once in a while. I heard someone email me and I have a relatively common name. There were two other Dave Myers at this organization.
00:29:56
Speaker
And this person emailed me a video, an animated gif of a person skydiving in the nude and everything was flapping very vigorously.
00:30:08
Speaker
And I had to email this person back and say, I think you meant to reach the other Dave Meyer, but speaking from corporate communications perspective, this is probably something that you should never send to anyone on a corporate network. Cause they send it with.
00:30:23
Speaker
Ah, email address to the head of corporate communications. And i was like, yeah, not a great idea. So do you have similar that might've happened with your team? Oopsie. Yeah.
00:30:35
Speaker
Yes, this happens more frequently and thankfully than terminations. But when you have um individuals that just have one aspect of their performance that's lacking, I always talk to the supervisor above that individual first. And I say, you sandwich these conversations.
00:30:53
Speaker
You first share with the employee all the good things that that they're doing. and And if they really are, note them, add that value in the conversation. Then in the middle, say, Bob, there's just one thing that I'd like to say we need to work on.
00:31:06
Speaker
And we all have this thing, Bob, maybe mine's different than yours, but I'd like you to focus a little bit more so on X and say along the way of my own life, I had to work through this. And sometimes it still gets to me, but I think overall I'm managing that. I have confidence that you could do that too.
00:31:24
Speaker
And at the end, I'm here for you. You've got my support. I have your back. And at the end of the day, we all like working with you here. So just know that. So I get a lot of those either through teams, supervisor. I coach leaders, mostly director levels and above. i also coach doctors and small business owners.
00:31:44
Speaker
And I do help do leadership training, lunch and learns, that's virtual. um um Once a month, I have two different clients where we have a different leadership topic each month.
00:31:55
Speaker
And it's anything from conflict resolution one month to how to ah deliver an effective performance review to um how do I recruit and screen effectively for that right hire.
00:32:07
Speaker
So a lot of different topics, because as a supervisor, most of the time they weren't trained in those topics. They were good at what they did. And someone tapped him on the shoulder and says, now you're the boss.
00:32:19
Speaker
And they very much want to learn. I'll come into these where i have a client now where they have distribution centers around the country. We jump 15th of every month, an hour and a half lunch and learn over at the lunch hour.
00:32:32
Speaker
And they'll say, could have used this 10 years ago. Like it's simple techniques on how to be a better leader. But I get those quite a bit. And I think their heart's in the right place.
00:32:43
Speaker
And I actually think that their intention is good. It's just, it gets lost sometimes in the translation moment. Stress under pressure is mostly the culprit. Stress under pressure.
00:32:55
Speaker
I enjoy a good naked skydiving video as much as the next fella, as much as I enjoy bump of bourbon at the end of a day. But those are things I keep to the confines of my home. All my encyclopedia of naked skydiving, as well as my bourbon, is not kept in the workplace soon.
Intergenerational Communication in the Workplace
00:33:15
Speaker
Sherry, one of the things that I've noticed that is more and more prevalent today than years past is the generational differences between people and the interactivities of those generations. and And i think there's also a cliche, a dismissiveness cliche that I as a white cisgender generation ex male, realize I'm very painfully aware of is not dismissing people as, oh, you're just one of them.
00:33:48
Speaker
And so what, is that just me or is that, are a lot of people facing that? And how do you counsel people in dealing with people who are either older or quite a bit younger than them?
00:33:59
Speaker
Oh my gosh, i I really appreciate this question because I talk a lot about this. I delivered a presentation to the Lakefield Chambers Leadership Lakefield Group about a month ago on this topic.
00:34:11
Speaker
And it was actually interesting because in the room were all the generations represented with the exception of the traditionalists. So when you think about it, we have five generations right now.
00:34:22
Speaker
We have the traditionalists that are those that sometimes you see those individuals actually like in a retail environment, like a Walmart. They're pushing the cart to you when you walk in would be an example.
00:34:33
Speaker
And then you have your, your baby boomer generation that are either nearing retirement or are in retirement. You have the X, which is what you just spoke of Trigby and the latchkey kid generation. And we had some unique parenting styles where they were just sending us out to play without the worry of bicycle helmets and all the rest, right?
00:34:55
Speaker
Then you have the why millennial generation. And that generation has ah very unique viewpoints about technology, research, adding value with questioning why, pushing forth the human desire, like what's in it for me, which is interesting for other generations to hear because they think just suck it up and put in your time. Why are you squawking?
00:35:18
Speaker
Then you have your Z generation, which are those individuals that are the yeah not the youngest yet, because there's technically another generation right now following them that are your part timers, your 15 year olds that truly aren't in the the workplace yet. But the Zs are mirroring the X generation.
00:35:37
Speaker
And maybe you've heard that. But the Zs are saying, I'm going to put in my time. I'm going to value mentorship. I want someone to mentor me and teach me the rope. I believe in hard work and I'm going to make it happen and get promoted.
00:35:51
Speaker
And that's really infuriating because the whys are like, I just got out of college. Why am I not a director? So there's some very much clashing ideals. Real quickly, a story. I worked with a group of teachers. My client was the principal and we chatted about some dissension amongst the teaching area.
00:36:11
Speaker
And it was the Y generation and the baby boomers and exes combating one another. Physically, right. But one of the issues they had was the staff meeting on a Wednesday morning.
00:36:24
Speaker
That was at 7 a.m. And it was once a week. And it was before class started. And all the teachers were expected to get in there a few minutes before 7. So that when the principal started talking, everybody was ready. For some reason, there were three teachers in that Y generation that were never on time or they strolled in with their Starbucks like about 7.20. They're starving.
00:36:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:47
Speaker
yeah And the issue was the others, the younger, excuse me, the more older generation or those that have been there for some time were wondering, can they not get here on time as the alarm clock broke? What's the deal?
00:37:00
Speaker
And so I did a quick focus group with that group. And I learned very simply that the principal had to commit to standard and to really whole hold accountable those that weren't meeting that standard.
00:37:11
Speaker
And we worked on ways to do so and upset the union. And long story short, it's done. no better. But again, it's our ways of doing work are different. And sometimes showing up differently, acting and saying things differently, acting in a manner at a holiday party that you might not think would be acceptable. And you'd wonder, why are they even thinking that's okay? So And I've got a bias too. I'm in the X generation and i have to check my bias at the door, certainly with clients, but also in my impressions if I'm reading something.
00:37:47
Speaker
Because really the at the value add every generation brings is necessary for business success. Because I'll just say the Ys, they are so good at getting answers that I think Xs might just not even think to look.
00:38:04
Speaker
So there's certain attributes we need to be open to as employers. And also I would see be fair and consistent with policy application, like in that principal teacher story.
00:38:15
Speaker
I think one of the things that feels different for sure between the different generations is certainly communication styles as well. Feels, I joke and I do talks for Google and HubSpot and other companies, but when I'm on the road, was like, what's the rudest thing that you could possibly do to a younger generation, a digital native?
00:38:36
Speaker
And the answer to that of course, is to call them without texting them first. Yeah. So how do you counsel or help leaders to say if they are a Gen X and they believe in just leaving a voicemail for people or want to engage in verbal communication when you're dealing with someone that would much rather just LOL BRB them and and send them a text?
00:39:00
Speaker
Yep. Excellent question. So I actually offer a communication workshop and I deliver it to different industries, but it has the same theme and the same approach no matter where you work.
00:39:11
Speaker
And it's about listening to what the receiver needs. So if you're a supervisor and you have 10 people and you work in an operations function, your goal and hopefully your job or committed job is to figure out what makes each of those 10 people tick.
00:39:29
Speaker
You may have Susie, who's a Y-Gen that needs to have a text like you just referred to, but you have Paula as a boomer that she likes when you get up from your desk and go talk to her at her workstation.
00:39:42
Speaker
And so what you should do is master who is working for you and how do you tailor your approach communication-wise to each person? Now, when I work with physicians in the OR, you have varying degrees of personalities.
00:39:58
Speaker
You have your OR staff, like your individuals that are like your nurses and your- ah Before you move off of that point, I think it's good to recognize that the pushback on that most business owners get is similar to what we get when we're looking at websites. as People say, no, they work for me, so they need to adjust to me.
00:40:18
Speaker
yeah And so there what there's a big difference of being right and being successful. If you want to be right, great. You're going to have people come and go. But if you want to be successful, you have to do what Sherry just said.
00:40:29
Speaker
So, all right, back to the doctors. No, i I want to go back into what you just said. It was do it astute there because what you're talking about is the attitude of the leader or in a CEO's chair. Hey, it's my way or the highway.
00:40:43
Speaker
I was at a client's just two days ago and I did a focus group. And with some of the complaints by the employees were that the owner has that sort of attitude, like it's my over the highway. There's the door if you don't like it.
00:40:55
Speaker
And I have to communicate at two o'clock to that owner today. That's what they were saying. So you hit that on the mark. And I want to go back to going back to what we really went back to. And I want you say more nice things about me.
00:41:08
Speaker
You're the best, Trigby. Oh, perfect. All right. So I interrupted your narrative. we were talking about the doctors. The doctors. I coach seven to 10 doctors a year and they're coaching engagements of about eight to 10 months a year.
00:41:19
Speaker
And what we do is work on an eerier aspect of their performance that they're struggling with. Discipline-wise, fetal surgery, urology, neurology, they're experts, they're saving lot. But when it comes to soft skills, bedside manner, if you will, they struggle.
00:41:34
Speaker
And actually, they don't wanna struggle. They've just never learned technically how to manage that. And so what I talk about is it's all rooted in communication. So if you have a nurse in front of you and you're not listening to what she's sharing, is she going to provide you the insights you need in a future patient scenario that's going to help you be the best doctor you want to be in the country, sometimes the world?
Coaching and Compliance in HR
00:41:59
Speaker
I think they need to think about how do they come across and what the person in front of them needs. So we look at, are they nodding their head? Are they looking at their watch?
00:42:10
Speaker
Are they giving a furrowed brow or being angry with their comments back to you? And so that's what a supervisor in any capacity needs to think through, ah business owner. And if they're not willing to adjust their style, they better get ready to have turnover.
00:42:26
Speaker
Because people just don't put up with that. I'm not saying do everything for them. It's not to that degree. But a servant leader is mindful of what people in front of them need.
00:42:38
Speaker
I think one of the things that is difficult for just about anybody, especially as they move into a managerial role, is having tough conversations. And, and having, having to be presented to share something that's potentially bad with somebody and helping them work through it. So can you give us some, and there's a myriad of different ways in which that manifests itself, but can you give us some basic guide works that if you're going to have a tough conversation with somebody, how should you do?
00:43:07
Speaker
So the funny thing is people feel like they shouldn't have butterflies in their stomach or they feel like they should, this should be easy peasy. It's not. Even for those that are nearing the end of their career, they really struggle to put it on the calendar.
00:43:21
Speaker
What they should recognize is that if they're planned and they're actually rehearsed, it's going to go much better and much more smoothly than if they shoot from the hip and try to squeeze it in on a Wednesday from 3 to 3.15.
00:43:34
Speaker
three to three fifty So think about your week. Think about when you're at your best. Some people are good in the mornings. Some people like to maybe at two or three after they've done a lot of their day, have that kind of a conversation. Think about what makes you best and then rehearse it.
00:43:52
Speaker
And I get these calls probably twice a month from different clients that want to rehearse with me. I tell them ahead of time to email me. I'll say, write it all out. And then we're going to practice like a roll.
00:44:04
Speaker
And I'm the employee and they tell me this is what they're going to say. And then I mentioned back, this is what I heard, or this is what you need to edit. But mostly what it is, if it's heartfelt and it's like I talked about earlier, the sandwiching effect, it could also be, i call it the testimonial approach. Like,
00:44:22
Speaker
Being honest about you as the leader have screwed up too. And even come up with a story, make it up, but remember it and say it to that employee. If I could tell you something back 10 years ago, this is when I goofed royally.
00:44:36
Speaker
I sent this email out. should have never went out to everybody, but it did. Those are the authenticity moments. that connect you to that employee and they walk out learning something.
00:44:48
Speaker
The goal you want is behavioral change. If you're a tyrant or if you're someone that just seems sloppy and and can't even get the words out what you want to say because you're so stressed by the conversation, you're never going to win.
00:45:01
Speaker
You want to make that successful because you don't want the person to leave. The goal should be that they correct the behavior and they stay with you. Behavioral change and obviously adding to your naked skydiving video collection.
00:45:15
Speaker
Yes. One last question before before we wrap up. I know compliance with laws and because employees have rights. yeah So compliance as a whole is often really overwhelming for small business owners.
00:45:29
Speaker
Yes. What are some basics that people really need to have an understanding of in order to understand some pitfalls? but It's funny how compliance ebbs and flows in my occupation.
00:45:41
Speaker
Recently, there are several right now that are on the docket that employers need to watch out for. This year was the employee sick and safe leave. Next year is going to be paid Minnesota paid time off.
00:45:53
Speaker
There's also new I-9. And there's the compliance components and what I call those are the transactional approaches to HR. Transformational compliance would be something like Minnesota now needs to post all of their wage ranges for openings.
00:46:11
Speaker
It was a California and West Coast based requirement. Now it's hit our state. There's also interviewing questions that used to be illegal that are now legal and vice versa.
00:46:23
Speaker
The one. Yeah, like what? Like the one. can finally ask Dave how old he is. That's still illegal. Oh, shoot. All right, let's edit that out. I think what you want to do is when you ask candidates compensation questions, you don't ask what was your prior salary history or what were you make what were you making at the last employer? That's now an illegal question.
00:46:47
Speaker
You ask them, what are your expectations for compensation relative to this role? So you're asking for what they like, not what they've made. That's a slip. Interesting.
00:46:59
Speaker
The other one that was more recent in the last five years, the application form, can't ask if you've been convicted of a felony any longer. but was happening why well What was happening is that somewhere along the line in the federal government, they were discovering that People that were in prison that are now out of prison on parole or have served their time were in this cycle of gaining employment when they were being honest about being a felon.
00:47:28
Speaker
Now, interestingly enough, when you do a background check, that is actually a legal process, legal process. So they're doing a check on backgrounds of criminal history.
00:47:42
Speaker
So that's acceptable. What they don't want us doing is in the interview process, taking people out of the running in the process early on so that they don't even get a chance to interview.
00:47:53
Speaker
um And also, just to keep in mind, felonies are all over the board. So you can have a drunk driving felony that has nothing to do with your job at Maurice's Retail, hanging clothes on racks, right?
00:48:08
Speaker
If you're a delivery driver, that has everything to do with the essential function, the drunk drivers. So again, we have to be job specific and we have to make sure that we're not inadvertently keeping old forms like an application we've used because it's worked for 20 years.
00:48:25
Speaker
We have to have a partnership with either a company like mine, or if you really want some interesting bedtime reading, go on the Department of Labor website and you can print off volume, not only of current compliance statutes, but what's coming down by obviously facetious.
00:48:41
Speaker
yeah There's certainly resources online if you're curious. Yeah. I thank you for that. I think I want to share my, I was thinking of my best HR story is I used to run a temp service and I got a call from our biggest client and they said, oh yeah, Sally or Jane or whatever it was. Say Jane.
00:49:03
Speaker
Jane has been talking to some of her fellow employees and talking about how she's partied all night with cocaine. So can you come deal with that? I'm like, what do you want me to do about it? Okay.
00:49:14
Speaker
So I go out there and my contact was a VP of HR and said, I have this problem. What should I do? And she's, I don't know what that looks like. Can we look it up? So we started looking up like how to tell if somebody's on cocaine, which within about 10 minutes, the IT director came by because they were like, oh, you shouldn't be looking that up.
00:49:36
Speaker
So we got busted by IT immediately. And okay, so we had to interview a couple of people and say, tell us the story. tell get Let's get all this out. By the way, I had 103 degree fever while this was happening.
00:49:48
Speaker
So I was walking out the door. cocaine were not No, the cocaine was, that i was totally different. that was That helped with the skydiving. And then we finally brought the candidate in. And so we said to the candidate is I have to take you for testing immediately to have your blood tested and then pending the results of that you're suspended.
00:50:09
Speaker
But if it comes back clean, then you'll be reinstated with full pay. She's okay, fine. So I get in the car and i i have to drive her to the testing facility because I i can't allow her to drive herself.
00:50:22
Speaker
Anybody want to guess the song that came comes on the classic rock station that I left the car on? Cocaine. Cocaine by Eric Clapton. So that was awkward.
00:50:33
Speaker
Followed by she's so high. Yeah. Wow, that could have gone worse. So then I take her down and she gets tested. ah drive her back and I say, okay, so just again, don't come back to work.
00:50:47
Speaker
We'll inform you the results of the test. Once the results of the tests are in, if everything comes back fine, then yeah know you'll be reinstated with full pay and back pay. And she says, oh yeah, no, it's going to come back positive. So we'll see you.
00:51:00
Speaker
And walked away from me. What on earth was the last two hours for? Exactly. She knew you were going to do that. She should have come clean. No pun intended. Right. I'm rarely sticking DayQuil up my nose just to make it through. Can't you cut a guy? ah but Yeah. So that was my worst thing. Story.
00:51:19
Speaker
um ah Sherry, where can where can people find you if they want to learn more about the initiatives? And and you talked about some of the classes you're offering. Where can people find you online? Sure. At my website, thestoltgroup.com.
00:51:32
Speaker
And feel free to review all the different service offerings there. My my phone number's on there, my email i address. Feel free to just reach out to me, whatever you're comfortable with. And I can share too with the clients that come connecting to me some of the recent scenarios where I've helped clients and what's out there today with compliance. I know spent some time here today sharing, but there's additional compliance needs today too.
00:51:56
Speaker
be happy to talk about. Dave, final thoughts before we wrap up? Yeah, HR is such a thorny and interesting and human-powered environment that it really pays to engage with a professional like Sherry.
00:52:15
Speaker
And if you have questions, I can't encourage you enough to ask those questions before they become ah real issue. And also not to lose insight insight that yeah, we're talking about human resources, but we're, what we're really talking about is you're working with people and as employers, as business owners, it's our job to bring the best out of our teams for the good of our customers. I hate it when people function or when they talk too much about, we've got to manage our human resources and our staffs and all that.
00:52:48
Speaker
It's, these are people. So remember and give people a little grace. And by all means, raise your hand early because there are a lot of ways that things can go wrong inside of the staffing and human elements of business.
00:53:04
Speaker
So thank you for joining and sharing your knowledge. Thank you, Gary. And Dave, please feel free and distribute the skydiving video ah to everybody. Sure. Sure. No problem. Before we go.
00:53:15
Speaker
So ah thank you. This has been dial another episode of Dial It In produced by Andy Witowski and Nicole Fairclough. I'm Trigvy, he's Dave, and with apologies to Tony Kornheiser, we will also try to do better the next time.