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S3 Summer Edition - Nicole Fairclough
10 Plays13 days ago
In this episode of Dial It In, Trygve Olsen and Dave Meyer have a conversation with Nicole, a producer who recently survived a heart attack. The discussion revolves around Nicole's experience, the symptoms she faced, and the importance of recognizing atypical signs of heart attacks, especially in women. The episode also features Tim Smith from HeartCert CPR, who provides expert insights on heart emergencies, the importance of training and preparedness, and preventive measures. The conversation highlights the critical need to know one's body, seek immediate medical attention, and support from employers in such health crises.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Dial It In' Podcast
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome to dial it in a podcast where we talk to fascinating people about marketing sales process improvements and tricks that they use to grow their businesses. you Join me Dave Meyer and Trigby Olson of busy web as we bring you interviews on how the best in their fields are dialing it in for their organizations.
00:00:26
Speaker
Let's ring up another episode.
Summer Favorites and Episode Picks
00:00:30
Speaker
of dial it in here on YouTube, as well as where you get all of your podcasts. Normally we're bringing back some of our favorites over the summer. And we asked our crack staff who helped produce the show to pick some of their favorites, to give us some ideas on what they wanted to bring back for the
Nicole's Heart Attack Experience
00:00:52
Speaker
summer. And the today's episode was universally accepted by every single person we asked.
00:00:59
Speaker
Also because one of our staff was actually the star of the show, and that was the the episode about Nicole, our producer, who had a heart attack. Technically, this is producer Andy's pick, but Nicole had a heart attack, and so she lived through it, thankfully.
00:01:16
Speaker
and She got through a lot of of pain and suffering as well as a 90-minute ambulance ride. and She learned a lot of interesting things about ah how the body functions differently and how the cliche of heart attacks are different from women as opposed to men.
00:01:35
Speaker
Some of the things we learned in the episode that especially if you're a woman and you do something normally and it takes all of all of your energy, that's not a good thing. and You need to be seen by a doctor.
00:01:46
Speaker
Especially if you have a family history of cardiac events, you're probably going to go to the front of the line. And that's never a line you really want to be in front of. So... ah Ultimately, one of the things that came out of this episode for Andy, especially as well as for me, was when it comes to cardiac events, there's no real rules when it comes to basic recognition of them. So there's all sorts of indicators of health issues, but know your body and know when to listen to it.
00:02:13
Speaker
And if something's not right, insist on action immediately. So. This is probably one of the best episodes that that we ever did and one of the ones that I'm most proud of. So I'm glad that all the staff felt the same way. So please enjoy.
00:02:27
Speaker
ah i talked about this last time. Nicole wasn't here. ah She had a heartache. We decided we were going to talk. We're all of a certain age now at BusyWeb, which I think speaks to our massive amounts of experience.
00:02:46
Speaker
But here's one of the experiences that nobody wants to have. So, yeah. So glad you're here, Nicole. On this very special episode, cue that this is us music. But before we do that, why don't you do our sponsor for today and then we'll perfect get into the show.
00:03:02
Speaker
Okay.
Sponsorship by WeFixHubSpot.com
00:03:03
Speaker
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00:03:15
Speaker
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00:03:27
Speaker
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00:03:39
Speaker
Excellent. So, and so far as that I want to make this a little bit about me, um, As usual. I went to and NBA playoff game yesterday and I've shredded, completely shredded my voice. So I sound a little bit more somber. i sound a little bit more gravelly, sound would a little bit more like Kathleen Turner than I do, but Nicole's not dead.
00:04:01
Speaker
So let's start there. Nicole, are you in fact dead? I am not. I am here. All right. I think we've spoiled the end, but let's go with it. This was 10 days since this happened. You and I were on the phone talking about somebody we work with at about six o'clock.
00:04:19
Speaker
don And I was saying, everything's going to be okay. and And just do this. And you're like, oh okay, fine. And we'd talked earlier in the day, like man, I don't really feel good. And I even said, you should really go do something because you're important here. You're saying.
00:04:36
Speaker
And then i got a notification at two in the morning that you were being rushed to with the emergency ward and you had a heart attack. So why don't we start there?
00:04:50
Speaker
Last time you and I talked was 6 a.m. 6 p.m.
00:04:55
Speaker
six p m Yep, 6 p.m. on, I think it was Thursday to 17th. And you and I were hanging up and we had finished up our conversation and I believe I had grandchildren that were arriving.
00:05:06
Speaker
They were coming to hang out for a little bit while their folks went to go take care of some things. And checked out for the day, went to the living room to go hang out with the kids. And the littlest one is about, oh, she's about a year and a half and weighs almost 30 pounds. And so she come running across the room and Grammy went to go pick her up and went, ah, ah.
00:05:23
Speaker
That really hurt. And to say that the following Saturday or the previous Saturday, I had went with a friend of mine to move some rock from her dad's house and you have to bend over and pick up the rock and put in the truck.
00:05:37
Speaker
And we moved a lot of rock. So I really had thought that I had pulled a muscle. We spent an entire day chucking rock into a back of a truck. I thought maybe just I'm not a spring chicken anymore and Let's hold on to something because Dave instant messaged me something.
00:05:51
Speaker
dropped the ball on For those of you, for those people who don't know you, um you, you produce the podcast and i not sometimes, but you are the behind the scenes person who makes the podcast run and we out also work at busy rep.
00:06:05
Speaker
I do. The podcast is a passion that I enjoy immensely and doing the production of that is is super fun. And then my full time every day is a project manager and CRM specialist for BusyWeb.
00:06:17
Speaker
So yeah I have a few different hats that I wear, but I enjoy them all immensely. And so this was really a bummer to... had to stick away for a minute. Well, yeah. So let's, so 6.30, seven o'clock, grandkids are there, then and then what?
00:06:34
Speaker
So I just, I was trying to pick up the little one, and every time I tried to pick her up, there was like, it was it's felt like... If anybody's ever pulled a muscle and you get a spasm in and it, that's what it felt like. And so it wasn't the classic grip your chest and it didn't feel like that.
00:06:49
Speaker
And usually for women, it doesn't. But there again, it didn't really present in the ways that they speak of there. I didn't have any nausea. I didn't have any headache. I didn't have any of that. It really just felt...
00:07:00
Speaker
like it was a muscle that was contracting. And so I hollered for my husband and had him come and he ran his fingers. I said, it's just like have a knot under my shoulder blade, just find it.
00:07:12
Speaker
And he ran his finger to my shoulder blade and he hit like a knot and i was like, oh, instantly, that feels better. Okay. And I didn't think anything of it. And couple minutes later, the little one came running. I went to pick her and I did it again.
00:07:24
Speaker
okay. This is not okay. And we had this go on here for a good 15, 20 minutes. It felt more spastic. It wasn't a constant. It wasn't anything like that. Called the parents of the children and said, please, let me get your children.
00:07:39
Speaker
So that we could go to the emergency room, right? I just said, I have to go see somebody, urgent care, somebody, this really hurts. And so... For the sake of context, yeah I think at this point, hopefully knows that Dave and I live in the Minneapolis area.
00:07:51
Speaker
You technically do, but you live about an hour and a half outside of town. I do. So I live in Southern Minnesota. And so Medical facilities are not all the same.
00:08:03
Speaker
And so we did get to the, I did not go to urgent care. I did go to the emergency. I'm glad I picked them instead. There was nobody there. I was the only person that came in, told them what was happening, instantly put me into a bed, took some blood and they came back and said that the enzyme that shows that you've had a heart attack was elevated. And so they got the EKG out and I got one of those.
00:08:27
Speaker
took them about, those don't take long, maybe about a minute and a half, two minutes. They don't really take very long at all for them to do them. They took the readout from there. They came back about an hour later and asked for another readout and said that mine was erratic.
00:08:39
Speaker
And from what the doctor was seeing is I had many heart attacks. No. Like that day? i You spent half the day with me. so I know. anne brains it I know. i was surprised because I didn't, I had never felt that pain really before.
00:08:53
Speaker
But reflecting back after having some conversations, I had actually had
Understanding Women's Heart Attack Symptoms
00:08:57
Speaker
a similar pain the day before on Wednesday. But it hadn't been nearly as intense and had' in law and hadn't lasted as long.
00:09:05
Speaker
And so I had just pushed it away. I had some other stuff I had to do. I had meetings to get to and that went on with my day. and didn't I didn't feel bad and so I didn't really think about it. And so they did another EKG and the doctor came back in and said that he was putting in for transport and that I was going to get myself a ride up to Abbott versus terrible correct live is that we do not have any cardiac doctors here.
00:09:27
Speaker
If something happens here, You got to go someplace. We don't have anybody here that can can that can fit that bill. And to be clear, Nicole, you already are a little bit like you're...
00:09:44
Speaker
You have this in the back of your mind anyway. So the fact that you had a heart attack is a surprise, even though you have some family history and you've been cognizant of that ah for a long time, right?
00:09:57
Speaker
My grandfather passed away at the age of 35 and my dad passed away at 37. I came home to his funeral on my 14th birthday. So very aware, very aware. always i've It's been in the fork in my mind for most of my life.
00:10:12
Speaker
And I've taken the precautions of I have lost the weight, rarely consumed the alcohol, pay attention to what I eat. I am totally at the first one to say that active, not as much as I could be.
00:10:25
Speaker
I'm not a big fan of winter and snow. So I'm very excited when gets nice out, which is when I really started noticing That something wasn't right. Like really, now that I'm looking back at this and learning more as spring was coming on, we have large dogs and so we like to walk them.
00:10:40
Speaker
And I was noticing that i was tired, more, more tired than normal. Now that I think about it than what I had been. And so that was really my, maybe my heads up. If you're just doing something that normally doesn't require you to feel like you've used all your energy, that was making me feel like that.
00:10:58
Speaker
And I had never experienced that before. Being aware. Did you make note of it or did you just keep going? I made note of it and I kept going. I started making changes here. So doing more walking, paying attention more attention to what I'm eating.
00:11:12
Speaker
When you go and they take your blood, you get all those panels run. And so looking at what's coming back, nothing was high. My cholesterol wasn't high. My HDL wasn't high. My LDL wasn't high. My A1C was in line. Like everything that you're checking, my enzymes, everything looked like they were good.
00:11:28
Speaker
So how would I have known? Like I... and Just by knowing who I am and really being in tune with you, who you are. but So I knew something wasn't right. Like I just didn't feel like I had the energy level.
00:11:41
Speaker
And like I said, making some changes here, an
Heart Attack vs Cardiac Arrest with Tim
00:11:44
Speaker
introduction of daily vitamins, more sleep, reducing caffeine, things like that. Just trying to figure out what, what was at play.
00:11:56
Speaker
Never in a million years did I think that I was there. So what's it like riding in an ambulance for an hour and a half? Cause I've never been in an ambulance.
00:12:06
Speaker
I've never ridden in one. I've never been taken anywhere in one. well i I had to call one for my father once years ago, but I didn't get to ride with. I did get to ride with North Memorial and I can say that they were fabulous.
00:12:19
Speaker
And fortunately for me, by time I saw them, i was feeling pretty good. Like What was happening is that I was having, my it was called an instemmy heart attack. And so i my understanding is that the vessel had a 90% blockage and the blood couldn't get through. So once my blood pressure calmed down, it didn't do the squeeze anymore.
00:12:42
Speaker
And so I felt okay, but this is only temporary. So got the ride in the ambulance and they were fabulous. Like we shared jokes and conversation all the way there because...
00:12:56
Speaker
There was really nothing happening, although they did check your vitals and things on the way and mine were getting better the more we drove. So that was nice. But really a great team of guys. I actually had the... Do they have Netflix?
00:13:08
Speaker
No, we didn't have anything to watch. We just got to hang out. I actually asked if they had a deck of cards in which they discovered they do not. And I thought maybe. Wouldn't that be fun if you could watch old yeah ER r episodes while in the ambulance ride? So it have been good. I'd have been all right with that. But they were great. And I actually had the opportunity. I got home a few days later and afterwards I actually had the opportunity to run into one of the drivers.
00:13:31
Speaker
me So I got to think. Did you exchange insurance information? Not this time, but we did exchange thank yous and it was really great to see him. We already, we'd already exchanged the insurance information earlier in the week. Right. chin and ah
00:13:44
Speaker
You got there and what was the end result? So I got there and i arrived in the middle of the night and because of my family history, i was told that I got to, I got to the move the front of the line.
00:13:57
Speaker
This is not a line that you ever want to get to the move to the front of. But fortunately for me, that meant the next morning, Friday morning, i got to go in and am now the proud owner of a stent. They did go in and look, they go to the femoral artery in your hip.
00:14:11
Speaker
and go up and get inside. So I have some cool pictures because you get to be a awake for that. So that was cool to see. Yep. I've watched them go up the millions and into into your heart. So that's cool. Scary at the same time.
00:14:22
Speaker
Medical technology, man. So got to do that. They placed the stent and told me that the heart was operating between 30 and 35%. So that was a... Yeah, know, right?
00:14:36
Speaker
Yeah. So they said that the way the heart was squeezing is that was between 30 and 35%, which left me a little shell-shocked. Okay. i'll say However, they wanted an MRI so that they could get a little bit more, ah bit of reading on that. And the way that they had done it with the angiogram that doesn't really give them exactly good results.
00:14:58
Speaker
They can see more about where they've done the blockage or the placement is out of the stint more than the squeezing ability of the heart. I've had an angiogram for those people who don't. Can you explain what that procedure is? Because I will tell you, as a man, it's not fun.
00:15:11
Speaker
It wasn't the most exciting, but that was where they go through the veins up through a catheter and they can get into vessels of the heart and look around to see if there's any blockages. For mine, they happened to find that there was a 90% blockage in the LAD, which is in the lateral vein.
00:15:30
Speaker
And so they blow up a balloon. so that they can get that open and then they place a and think it's a titanium like stint that then holds that placement open. Okay.
00:15:44
Speaker
And that's like a straw, right? Yeah. Okay. Kind of looks like a straw just in your heart, just in the vein of your heart. Wow. Yeah, the pictures were fascinating to see where the blockage was at, and you could see how opaque the veins were in the bottom of the heart because they were getting some blood, they just weren't getting all of it.
00:16:06
Speaker
And once they put that stint in, you can see all the veins have darkened up and just like instantly the blood flow that was able to go through. so When they do an angiogram, they go into your actual artery.
00:16:20
Speaker
Femoral artery. Femoral artery. And the closest one to your body is in your swimsuit area. And I, cause that's a rating G thing. So swimsuit area. And I had one when I was, I think 13 or 14 and I had to stay still for eight hours to heal.
00:16:37
Speaker
And then I had one, I think five or six years ago and they were like, yeah, you can go like, wait, what? Like, that's fine. the technology has improved considerably. They have a patch.
00:16:50
Speaker
They have a patch. They have a patch they use now. Yes. It's a federal patch that they put over that to hold it together.
00:16:59
Speaker
So I have right comforting. That's like getting in the pilot. Who's got jokes like now we put a bandaid on it. Go home. Yeah, I have it. I believe it's indeed it's it's it's inside. It's not exterior.
00:17:11
Speaker
So that one, it feels a little weird. I can still feel the whoosh in my thigh when I sit, but I don't know. They told me last week that was more because I'm more in tuned.
00:17:22
Speaker
Yeah. After the MRI. that I had to do on Saturday, we got more results. So that was helpful to know that once that was done, they were able to get a picture of the heart, see what was really going on. The squeezing ability of the heart, they calculated at 46%, which I thought was ah an upgrade from the 30 to 35 that they had told us done the day before.
00:17:44
Speaker
However, i still was thinking that was a long way from good.
00:17:51
Speaker
I, Tuesday we went for a follow-up. So I did get to go home on Saturday. Everything else was good. They sent me home Easter with the family. So soup to nuts, we're talking about 36 hours home home. Yes.
00:18:02
Speaker
All together. So Friday and Thursday night, about seven o'clock. And then they released me about two o'clock on Saturday afternoon.
00:18:13
Speaker
So from the time of arrival, you had a heart attack. We gave you a straw and a bandaid, but it's on the inside. You'll be fine. Yeah. Wild. Yeah. Just don't try.
00:18:24
Speaker
You felt different right away. So they ran the procedure. Yeah. Much more. I'm not as tired. Uh-huh. Staff would have been really happy if I would have been. yeah
00:18:35
Speaker
They were fantastic, but I never like, you don't go to the hospital to get sleep. They come in to bother you every hour and you're wide awake just to say hello when they come in because i feel great. This is so fabulous. Cause I really did feel fabulous.
00:18:48
Speaker
Much different than had for the weeks previous. So it's yeah So what are your marching orders
Supporting Heart Health in Workplaces
00:18:55
Speaker
moving forward? So yeah we see you more than your husband does during the day. So let's roll it out because we can't live without you. And so what do we need to make sure you're doing?
00:19:06
Speaker
Really? Just the cardiac rehab. So my marching orders were a 10 pound restriction and no driving for 24 hours. So that was up on Easter.
00:19:16
Speaker
I did go back and have a follow up on Tuesday, this last Tuesday. She was very sweet and put me on an eight pound restriction. So a gallon of milk. And she did that until I have an opportunity to get into the cardiac rehab, which I start tomorrow.
00:19:32
Speaker
And so back to when we talked to her and we were just talking about the squeezing of the heart, like I said, when they said 30 to 35 percent and then they came back and they said it was 46 percent, it didn't I don't know that I felt better.
00:19:46
Speaker
I wanted to know how I got to this point. And speaking with the doctor on Tuesday, she, I asked the question and she said, they didn't tell you. And I said, tell me what? She goes, the normal heart is between 50 and 55%.
00:19:59
Speaker
Oh, so you weren't off of a hundred, you were off of 50 or 55%. But so you're cut, you're almost cut in half. For normal use. But for most people, they said that normal heart, that the squeeze function is between 50 and 55%.
00:20:13
Speaker
And so the fact that I was at 46 on Saturday is makes me hopeful. That's really not that much to gain. When they came back after they did the MRI, they did come back and say that there was no damage.
00:20:24
Speaker
The heart was only stunned. And so that with the cardiac rehab and putting that muscle back to use again, it should be able to make a full recovery. So that's fantastic.
00:20:37
Speaker
So one of the reasons why we wanted to talk about this is because the symptoms that you had were not ah TV symptoms. Right. And learned we all learned a lot in the process.
00:20:51
Speaker
And so some of the things that we learned only about one in eight of women report experiencing chest pain as the main symptom, excuse me.
00:21:04
Speaker
Only about one in eight of women who report experiencing chest pain is the main system. And women on the, ah on the whole are less likely to get immediate treatment. They wait longer than men to seek emergency care.
00:21:17
Speaker
They're less likely to receive appropriate treatments like stents or medications. And recent study, we found that women under the age of 55 are more likely to die in the hospital after a heart attack than men of the same age. There really is a disparate gender difference in how ah women have heart attacks and men.
00:21:38
Speaker
And so. I didn't know a thing about this other than when you went and I live with a woman who is my everything and is, has a job and has kids and has oh aging parents.
00:21:53
Speaker
And so I'm now utterly terrified. So in order to make me feel better, we brought in an expert. So our old friend, Tim from HeartSearch CPR.
00:22:04
Speaker
Who's looking around going, oh God, who is it? ah Yeah. i You so it's expert a little bit loosely there. That's all right. We do everything a little bit loosely here. It's, I meant this is loosely comedy as far as I'm concerned. So thanks for joining us, Tim.
00:22:19
Speaker
Dave, do you want to do a full blown intro for Tim? Of course. Yeah. And so Tim, other than being a already dial it in podcast guest, is also the founder of HeartCert CPR Training, a national provider of CPR, AED, first aid, BLS, ACLS, and PALS certification courses.
00:22:39
Speaker
Say that five times fast. With a career dedicated to emergency response education, Tim also serves as a training manager at Lifelink 3. and an instructor trainer with the American Heart Association.
00:22:51
Speaker
Through HeartCert, Tim's mission is to make life-saving skills accessible to individuals, families, businesses, and communities across the U.S. Today, Tim's joining us to talk about hearts heart health, recognize heart emergencies, and why being prepared can save lives.
00:23:07
Speaker
bring us some expert authority to this because we're all in this for the first time. We're so delighted to have Nicole here with us. Tim, we know that you see this a whole lot more than we do. And so we wanted to give our listeners more insights.
00:23:21
Speaker
So welcome. Yeah, absolutely. Appreciate that. A lot of acronyms and everything there. But yeah, basically the easy way to say it is I was a firefighter and an EMT, worked on an ambulance and fire station for many years and that's how I got into all of this. I saw it happen, done it, worked in the real world and then started a business to help educate people for instance just like this.
00:23:46
Speaker
And you see a fair number or in your past careers as an EMT, I'm sure you saw plenty of men and women with cardiac issues, right?
00:23:58
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Yes. Yep. The thing that springs to mind immediately is Nicole mentioned it, and I think you guys did as well, is just that it didn't, it wasn't what I expected. It wasn't like I see on TV or in the movies.
00:24:11
Speaker
And in real life, it's the same thing. We've danced around it, but women definitely do present typically with different signs of a cardiac event and than men do. It's just their physiology. It's just the way it is. And The tricky thing that I've come to learn through my professions is that anything that deals with the heart, any kind of cardiac event, there are no real rules, at least as far as when it comes to a basic level care and recognition type of thing.
00:24:41
Speaker
Somebody can present with one two, five different common or uncommon side effects and signs and symptoms. And it can be different for everybody. It can happen to young, it can happen to old. And that's why cardiac arrest is the number one killer and not just the nation, the world. And it's been that way for a very long time.
00:25:01
Speaker
And so, yeah, learning those signs and symptoms, learning what you can do, learning how to recognize it so you can get that care faster, this leads to better results. And maybe a good place to start off is I mentioned cardiac arrest. You hear cardiac arrest, you hear heart attack. I think most people might blur those lines or think, oh, aren't they the same thing?
00:25:21
Speaker
But they are, they're two different things. So a heart attack really just means that there's damage that's happening. Like your heart is hurt. but you're still alive, you're still going, there's just, there's damage that's been done.
00:25:34
Speaker
And now that can lead to cardiac arrest and cardiac arrest is when the heart is no longer beating or no longer beating efficiently where it can sustain life. That means without some massive interventions here, this person is no longer going to live. So thankfully, Nicole did not go into cardiac arrest and need people doing CPR and cracking your ribs and and doing all that. Otherwise, I think it might've been a little bit of a longer stay. So thank goodness that you did recognize that something was wrong, right? Everybody, you know, your body and there's something's wrong. You need to get checked out.
00:26:10
Speaker
Right. So let's talk a little bit about symptoms. I have a list here, classic or textbook symptoms of having a heart attack, crushing chest pain or pressure, like an elephant sitting on your chest, pain radiating down the arm, sweating, susceptibility to making red Fox jokes.
00:26:33
Speaker
Is that too old of a reference? I keep getting older and It's a little rough. We're all old. Shortness of breath or nausea, which... and come home out shortness of breath or nausea which Unfortunately for Dave, sweating, shortness of breath, and nausea is basically how he has to interact with me on a daily basis.
00:26:50
Speaker
Sure. But just that's what makes me think of the arts. You can have some of this stuff all the time. You don't know. it's Right. Nicole didn't have almost any of these, right? Yeah. Nicole, what what were your symptoms again?
00:27:02
Speaker
Really? It just felt like I pulled a muscle. So it felt like a muscle strain in across like the upper part of my, like below your esophagus, kind of running and across the top of my chest and under my shoulder blade. Other than I did not have any shortness of breath, breathing was just fine.
00:27:16
Speaker
It just was a pulsating pain that I could not get to stop. And you did say that your back, like there was, it was like there was a knot in your back as well, right? Yep. Under my shoulder blade. It felt like I had just, like I said, like I'd pulled a muscle, like like when you just overdo something.
00:27:32
Speaker
And my husband did, he ran his finger down my shoulder blade and there was a knot and he pushed on it was just like, oh.
00:27:40
Speaker
I feel so much better and it probably was tense and it probably did feel better. Only the, I wasn't correlating that they were tied together. And that's the list of symptoms from that women get, which are considered more subtle or atypical symptoms.
00:27:57
Speaker
So shortness of breath, which did you have that? No. Nausea. No. Unusual fatigue, which you did say you did have.
00:28:08
Speaker
Hmm. neck, jaw, or upper back pain, which you just said lightheaded or dizziness, cold sweats, or, and this is something you did tell me you had the day we talked before your heart attack of pressure, pain in the chest, but maybe is mild and is mistaken for heartburn.
00:28:31
Speaker
Yep. Agreed. I think like I told you, I'd eat more Tums in the last two days than I had eaten in the last 20 years. Oh my. yeah Tim, why, physiologically speaking, why are such the dramatic differences?
00:28:46
Speaker
Physiologically, I can't give you a great straight answer as to exactly why do women present differently? and It's because women in men's bodies generally, it's different. And so they present differently. And it really is like you just said, so you mentioned Red Foxx for me, it's always like Chris Farley, SNL. was like your bill yeah When you think of heart attack, when most people think of heart, that's what it is. It's, oh my gosh. Oh my goodness.
00:29:12
Speaker
And it's not always like that, but it it can. and yes, in a lot of men, that's one of the more common things. Really crushing, crazy, bad chest pain, shortness of breath. And then, yeah, you can get some stuff going on in the arms, usually the left arm and shortness of breath. So most people can see and recognize that pretty quick.
00:29:33
Speaker
But like we said, women, maybe it's kind of indigestion, just a little short of breath. Just really, we say like, you just feel off or a little sickly. And then yeah, pain in the upper back, neck,
00:29:46
Speaker
kind of area and even the jaw and all of these signs and symptoms aside from like crushing chest pain but if you're talking nausea you're talking general fatigue you're talking pain anywhere else boy is that easy to not recognize and to just assume it's something else maybe i caught a bug i'm coming down with something or maybe yeah i am just i'm just tired today So really being aware and knowing things too, like Nicole, you said you are aware of a past history for your family that plays into it as well. You need to be extra cautious because genetics definitely play into it too.
00:30:25
Speaker
green And I know for me, I tend to avoid the Chris Farley thing of inhaling a whole chicken. What's really terrifying as we consider this whole experience of mild symptoms. These are the things that happen to you similarly as you age where, yeah, I'm tired or.
00:30:42
Speaker
Yeah, I have heartburn or yeah, my backhearts. These are things that the women in my life refer to on a daily basis. Well, almost maybe it's just because maybe it's just because I can, they keep referring to the pain in the neck. That's me. But, um, Hey Tim, what are some symptoms that we can, when you care about the women in your life, what are some of the symptoms that and ways in which we can help them make sure that they take care of themselves.
00:31:12
Speaker
Yeah, that's an excellent question. So for the people in your life, and even if you're thinking about yourself, it's knowing them, right? If it's the person you know and love and they're in your house and you know them, you'll have a pretty good idea if something is off, if they're not acting right. no Some people, maybe they do, they nap every day for an hour. But when this one, if my wife goes in and does it, I know something's up and she never does that.
00:31:37
Speaker
It's looking for things that are abnormal, but also still carry kind of those negative things that, okay, there's fatigue involved, there's shortness of breath involved, there's something going on with indigestion your stomach. So that's when you need to be a little more aware.
00:31:52
Speaker
And being aware is great. That's one step. But you also want to be prepared and know what to do. So it's just, oh, this could be a heart attack.
00:32:04
Speaker
That's good, but okay, so what do you do with that? And it sounds like once you came to the realization, Nicole, everything you did was it exactly right, but you've got to seek help. And sure, could you go to an urgent care or whatever? you can, but that will also delay things. you need If there's any chance of it being cardiac, it's get to an emergency room, get that care as quickly as you can, because those are the only things that can save your life are the stints, are the emergency drugs, is the surgery.
00:32:34
Speaker
and things like that otherwise the people like me when i was working on the ambulance like we can do cpr we can use an aed we can shot care we can do it manually for you but all of that stuff or really rather none of that stuff will fix the heart we're not going to go out there and fix the heart and the person's feeling great it takes a lot of extra care from those really good people at the hospital but i take care of that so long answer your question trigby Look out for abnormal and when in doubt, be more cautious.
00:33:08
Speaker
I think the trick for me is, and this is on a personal level, i and I have no, i I am completely bereft of in being able to influence my wife to do anything, let alone the women that I work with. This is not happening, but on a personal level, the way that I think of it is I would much rather go to the hospital and be wrong than no.
00:33:30
Speaker
So if you use that line of reasoning on a loved one and say, let's go and be wrong. And then the doctor says, because one of the things that we talked about is statistically women heart attacks, female heart attacks are often overlooked or dismissed.
00:33:47
Speaker
What are some of the tests that you can ask for to figure out if it really is a heart attack? Or is a heart issue. Can can you demand an EKG?
00:33:58
Speaker
Should you? Pick whichever one of those six questions you'd like to answer first. Yeah, sure. And Nicole will be able to weigh in on a lot of that. Yeah, i mean, neither one you. So like coming in to the hospital in the clinical setting, once in there, I don't have a range of expertise there really. But yes, absolutely. If you're feeling off, you should not have to demand EKG.
00:34:20
Speaker
An EKG is a very simple, non-invasive, quick kind of test. And if there's anything going on, they really should be doing that. Yeah, if you're advocating for yourself and you feel like, hey, I'm not getting the best care and they're being dismissive, they're saying, oh, I might have the flu, but I think there could be more just because i know me, I know my body. Yeah, say something like something is just off. I really think we should check out my heart and then they'll know the tests and the other things to do. There's procedures and processes that kind of work through all that.
00:34:53
Speaker
And there's some technology that we all might be wearing on our wrists right now that might be able to help with some of that detection. Three of us on the call, Nicole, I don't think you have an Apple Watch, but that actually saved my mom's life because she was, we got her a Apple Watch for Mother's Day five years ago.
00:35:12
Speaker
And then shortly thereafter, right as soon as the EKG function came up, she kept getting these pings. And in true Dave's mom fashion, hi Ruth, she ignored it for a while.
00:35:25
Speaker
And it this weird thing keep keeps popping up on my watch. And it turned out it was that her heart rate was spiking to almost like hummingbird levels. It was going to 220, 230. They brought her in and then she had to get an ablation for the arrhythmia. That's again, so whatever you have at your disposal, if you have a way to track and to manage that, some sort of early detection, make sure that you're checking it.
00:35:50
Speaker
Tim, what's a heart arrhythmia compared to heart attack? So arrhythmia just means that the way the heart is beating and what they're seeing is just a little bit different than normal.
00:36:02
Speaker
Okay. Lots of different, so even more advanced than my level at an EMT level. There are so many different things and electrical signals that the heart can give.
00:36:13
Speaker
And that's what those professionals study and know is exactly what every little line means. Got it. Backing up, you brought up a good point before Trigby too. It's okay. What if I think there could be something going on, but whether it's a loved one or not, but this other person here who might be having a heart attack is saying, no I'm fine.
00:36:34
Speaker
Leave me be. yeah where I don't want an ambulance. You call an ambulance, I'm going to beat you up. What do you do? That's a common question that comes up in our trainings. And what you said, Trigby, is better safe than sorry. Much rather you checked out and then, hey, no big deal.
00:36:50
Speaker
Even still, nobody can stop you from calling an ambulance. There's nobody who can... can do that. You're your own person. you can call an ambulance. And it doesn't mean you're going to necessarily get a big bill or this or that, but they will come and then they will do an assessment. And if they deem there's nothing wrong and everything is fine, as that person claims, they will have them sign a form and they will leave. But otherwise, if they see that things going on or they feel in their professional opinion, and just based on the information that they have, yep, you should go in and get checked out, then you will.
00:37:24
Speaker
But really, I guess that's to say is you don't have to make that decision. and You don't have to be the bad guy or anything like that is you see something, you should say something. And if it's could be like me saying to Nicole, hey, something isn't sitting right. I think we should go and get it checked out.
00:37:39
Speaker
Let's go. And if she says no, you call an ambulance. That's really the way to go. And then can be mad at the ambulance. Sure. I was going to say, I'm pretty sure the four the three of you must have talked to my husband because that was his, like, I'm going to call the ambulance if you don't get in the car.
00:37:54
Speaker
Like, I had a choice of matter and it was one or the other because he was worried, rightfully, but he knew something was wrong and I was being stubborn and saying, oh, no, it'll be fine. Just give it a second.
00:38:06
Speaker
So, and a collected new one yeah, did you go directly to the hospital first or did you talk to your doctor first or?
Emergency Response and Practical Tips
00:38:14
Speaker
and Thursday, I went directly. I was going to go.
00:38:16
Speaker
Urgent care was open until eight. And actually had missed a phone call from my mom and had returned the call to her and told her what I was doing. And she was a nurse for 40 years and retired and was like, you don't go to the urgent care. Go you directly to the emergency room.
00:38:32
Speaker
And so I went there and I was lucky enough that I was the only one that was in the emergency room. So it was like first-class care because I came into the hardia a cardiac event and that will get you a one-way the room and the phone and the lab people and all the people come to visit you.
00:38:50
Speaker
but Very quick. We had a question from a listener. Men everywhere asked, how has this changed your relationship with your husband now that he was right for the first time?
00:39:02
Speaker
oh Oh, look at him. I will listen more often. um He's not usually. My husband is fabulous. He can be very supportive, but he's very.
00:39:15
Speaker
He'll say what he has to say and then he lets me go do what I'm going to do. In this instance, this was an instance where he wasn't going to allow that and I am very appreciative of that. I'm glad that he was paying attention and listening and seeing. Shout out to Cam.
00:39:29
Speaker
Yeah. you know i yeah I can't thank him enough for being here and and taking care of all the things because it wasn't just me. We had grandbabies here and all that stuff that he had to worry about getting them safely to where they had to go and all the things.
00:39:45
Speaker
So Tim, I have a list of things like your feedback on of what to do if someone, if you or someone else might be having a heart attack and I like your feedback on this.
00:39:56
Speaker
Obviously, if it was me, if I started doing Red Fox impersonations, the first thing is to call 911 immediately. correct Don't drive yourself to the hospital and because emergency responders can begin treatment and en route and save crucial time.
00:40:11
Speaker
ah Number two, chew aspirin if you're not allergic to aspirin because that will help thin the blood and then limit damage. Yep, absolutely correct. So we teach all of that and sorry to interrupt you, but yes, yeah but it's important to stress that very first thing. it's So you're educated, people are listening to this, hopefully they've been trained, but when you recognize something, it's 911 immediately.
00:40:38
Speaker
media And then after that, is anything else we can do, which isn't a lot. yeah yeah The next thing would be if you're not allergic to aspirin, one dose of aspirin. We've seen commercials and you might have seen it the store. They have hard aspirin, baby aspirin, non-coated, chewable stuff.
00:40:54
Speaker
That's what you'd want and to follow the bottle. But otherwise, if all you've got is just regular old aspirin, if that's what you got, go ahead and do it. Why do you want to chew the aspirin? help it work faster, get into the bloodstream. And they usually say chew it because you should be taking the chewable aspirin for the heart.
00:41:11
Speaker
And so you're going to want, it it'll say on the bowel, but it's so the dose equivalent is up to one regular aspirin. So I believe that's around 325 milligrams. and yeah but Number three on the list is stay calm, stay still, sit or lie down, try not to move around. the heart Work harder. Yep. Probably legs up if possible or knees up.
00:41:34
Speaker
So that used to be something they would teach like trauma. And if you're worried about like shock and things like that, the science behind it actually says that there's not a need for that. do they Okay. In this kind of, you want to keep yourself comfortable, keep yourself warm, but you don't have to necessarily get into any kind of certain.
00:41:54
Speaker
Okay. um Loosen tight clothing, which means I'm obviously going to have to change jeans before going. Yeah. Yep. For comfort. Yeah. You want be comfortable.
00:42:05
Speaker
Okay. and Next on the list and which I blew my mind, um unlock your door if you're alone. Yeah, really good idea. i Always be thinking ahead. One of the reasons you don't drive yourself to the hospital or the ER is, of course, what if something happens on the way? Now you've made it worse for yourself and others.
00:42:25
Speaker
But what if something happens while the ambulance is on the way? You want to make sure they can get there. Along those same lines, I can say from lot of experience, but if you're not alone, it's a husband, a loved one, a child, whoever, strangers nearby you,
00:42:40
Speaker
While you're sitting and waiting for the ambulance, as nice as is to have someone there for you, there are other steps that those people can and should take. If you're living in a rural area or a busy downtown or whatever, ambulances, they get an address, but it doesn't mean that they know exactly boom where to go. So having somebody out there to flag them down, somebody out there to hold the an elevator or clear the space in the living room, whatever it may be, all of that stuff saves time and it just makes it yeah they care to be better.
Episode Reflections and Takeaways
00:43:12
Speaker
And if those cats see you splayed out on the floor and the door's not open, they're going in. Yeah, but there'll be a delay there too because they're not going to just bust right in immediately because you don't answer.
00:43:26
Speaker
They're going to knock and ring the bell and wait. They're going to talk with dispatch. They're going to go try a back door. All of this is time where you're laying there and slipping away. Is that true?
00:43:38
Speaker
Cause I had a family member that happened that that was called and they took the door down. And by the time I got there to help, I had to wait with police for six hours for day. You remember you saw me the next morning.
00:43:55
Speaker
I had to wait there awkwardly with police. We ended up playing cribbage, waiting for somebody from the city to come board up the door. Wild. But yeah, I mean they're coming in because at that point they're going to see you. And then the last thing is on the list is even if you're unsure, it's a heart attack, it's better to go in and find out that it's not than risk waiting too long.
00:44:17
Speaker
Absolutely. Anything you want to add to that, Tim? No, those are the big things. The only things to add come before the event happens, right? Nicole talked about it about, oh, less caffeine, eating better, exercising right, knowing your family history, all of this can lower risk and help you live longer, healthier, better. And perhaps the heart attack won't be as consequential or significant in in your life if it occurs. So just all of those kinds of things are really important. And then where my line of work comes in, I firmly believe, and that's why I got into it and I'm passionate about it, is that people should be trained.
00:44:52
Speaker
and yeah It shouldn't be a question of, oh Something's going on Does anyone know how to help or what to do or whatever? it's People had just the very basic understanding of what we've talked about here.
00:45:06
Speaker
It's amazing how many people don't know that. And any of those delays in care it can't really mean the difference between life and death. The statistic that gets caught a lot and that I see is that the instant your heart goes pain,
00:45:21
Speaker
through the arrhythmia that starts to have the heart attack and you go into cardiac arrest and you're going to need CPR. once As soon as that happens to your heart, start the stopwatch. Every minute that goes by, it's roughly around 10% that your chance of survival decrease.
00:45:38
Speaker
That's not your time. Old 911 or told your husband or whatever. That's from the instant it started. Again, I'm leading in talking more once we get into cardiac arrest, but Just be trained, be prepared, and then get yourself checked out and out.
00:45:54
Speaker
If you do have a family history and things like that, AEDs, there I relate them to like smoke detectors or fire extinguishers. right We all know they're important. We all know they're safe. We see them around from time to time.
00:46:06
Speaker
Most of the time, you don't even see them. They're there. So AEDs stands for Automated External Defibrillator. Those are the things that can shock the heart and they they can put it back into a regular rhythm.
00:46:18
Speaker
So a very important thing. And you can have those at home. Most businesses have them. If you are walking into, say, a Cub Foods or an Aldi or wherever it is you shop, you'll probably, if you look next time, see a sticker or something that says AED inside. They're so important.
00:46:36
Speaker
Oh, follow question from a listener. Tim, Allmen Everywhere asks, do you have to shut clear when hitting somebody with a defibrillator? You have to yell it at the top of your lungs. Absolutely. Okay.
00:46:51
Speaker
right Not trying to shock the neighbor. Right. However, they should come in every home. i think I am a firm believer of AEDs and I think that they should be in every home.
00:47:04
Speaker
Truly expensive for what, for what they do. They have come down in price significantly. I think everybody should have one of those. They have, and you're right. Like when I first got into this, we were talking 15, 20 plus $1,000 AEDs out in the world and especially in a home were unheard of. That was a hospital thing. Yeah.
00:47:23
Speaker
Yeah. Medical technology is coming a long ways. In fact, we could pause it or whatever. I can go get the AED I have in my house, but it's not that big. It connects Wi-Fi. wi-fi Cool. And 911 gets an emergency or whatever. If there was somebody in my neighborhood or nearby that could use it, it'll actually alert. And so like they can all talk to each other and things like that. Now, like newer technology, knowledge but there's just a lot of potential there. And and so, yeah, from 15, 20 plus thousand, now you're looking at a thousand and even less. You can get them recertified, refurbished.
00:47:57
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, it's literally your life. your life yeah and For those that have them, they are HSA approved. Yes. Yep. So if anybody has their HSAs they want to use, they are approved for that.
00:48:12
Speaker
Dave, what do you think? We need to wrap up because we can probably talk about this for an next couple of hours. What are you leaving with this? I have a request from Tim and then I'll go into my final. So my final question for Tim and Nicole, if you want to chime in as well, but from what your doctors have told you, how can businesses or just in the workspace, how can we support people that may have had cardiac events and or to make sure that we are as prepared as possible in case there is somebody in our office that has a cardiac event.
00:48:51
Speaker
Yeah, that that's a great question. I'll be interested to hear what you've got to say, Nicole, but from my aspect, it comes back to the training and preparation. I just what I'm all about. So from an employer standpoint, obviously one is to be respectful of if there was an event, giving them the proper time off and privacy and all that kind of stuff. But it goes deep. Do you have an employee wellness plan?
00:49:16
Speaker
Do you offer any kind of training? a good chunk of what our company does is go out into companies and give training to the employees. And is that a benefit that they offer? It's one that they should. Depends on the demographic and the type of business and industry and all of that.
00:49:31
Speaker
But yeah, some things that employers can do to support. I would agree with you, Tim. I think that, you know, train is key and it's not just work oriented. it travels you It travels with you everywhere. I was originally trained years ago within the company that I worked for and have continued to keep that up just because I find it to be important.
00:49:50
Speaker
Having my mother be a nurse also helps. So that she has that importance. I think also from an employer standpoint, like Tim said, just The ability to take the time if you need it.
00:50:03
Speaker
I work for a great company. I was able to call them and just tell them what going on. And the first thing that I got was take whatever you need. And knowing that you have, that's huge. Really, that's that that takes a lot of stress off of what's going on For my... for My event, from what they've said, mine was done from mine mind was caused by stress. So I'm really good about internalizing stress.
00:50:25
Speaker
I'm not really so good about handing it out to everybody else or just walking away from it. I will be learning how to not do that in the future. So like that's fantastic. I found that the last few weeks I've been really good at being like, I don't care.
00:50:38
Speaker
And yeah how much stuff doesn't land there? It's perfect. you know What's for supper? i don't care. Didn't get to the whatever? I don't care. It's freeing actually, and none of these things have made it go off the rails. So that's okay.
00:50:50
Speaker
But I think from employers, the health and wellness is always good. Even just having the sounding board and being able to come to your employer and just tell them.
00:51:01
Speaker
I don't know that everybody has an opportunity without... And I don't... There was no fear there. I very much came ah and said what was going on. Respectful, I think, as well. There's respect both ways. So...
00:51:12
Speaker
That's also right. Yeah. And as an employer, it's probably not the best idea to ask that person to be on a podcast right after that. But Nicole volunteers one of those things.
00:51:23
Speaker
Yes. She, she very much wanted to do that saying, I thank you so much for this. Cause this is really important. And it's important that we listen to our bodies and especially for women who aren't as just the media doesn't serve up what a typical heart attack looks like, which is why we wanted to do this episode.
00:51:42
Speaker
So thank you, Nicole, for sharing your story. And of course, Tim, thanks for sharing the expert opinions and ideas. And we're going to have all kinds of resources and links, but make sure you do check out heartsearchpr.com.
00:51:57
Speaker
ah yeah Tim, where can people find you? Yeah. So heartsheartcpr.com. We offer trainings to all ages, all levels, anything you need. So you're looking to learn more about this stuff, that's a great place start.
00:52:11
Speaker
And you're not just in the Metro, correct? Correct. Yeah. our headquarters is a Metro Twin Cities, Minnesota. But we have locations all throughout the state and multiple throughout the country as well. We even do virtual training, again, technology. So you used to have to go into a class and sit eight hours to learn about this stuff with a bunch of strangers. You literally now can get it shipped through your door, right? Like the Amazon, right? You get a box and just log into Zoom and do it in the privacy of your own home.
00:52:42
Speaker
Cool. Thanks Tim for doing that. Yeah. Nicole, this is by and large done for you by you. So what so do you wish that you didn't know now that you didn't know that? God, yeah, I did it.
00:52:55
Speaker
Yay. I wish I didn't have this experience. However, it's been enlightening. I think I have learned that so far one day at a time learning what is important and what is not.
00:53:10
Speaker
What's worth being stressed out about? What's not? Yeah, it's very much a learning process. I think that i'm I'm grateful that I know myself. And so I think that helped. But going forward, and I'm curious to see where that adventure will lead me.
00:53:22
Speaker
Because I don't know that I'll be the same person when I get to the end. But that's okay. We have to evolve and grow. We're sure glad you're here. Yeah, really, really glad, Nicole, that it didn't turn out the other ways.
00:53:33
Speaker
couldn and Glad you got help and... Thanks for sharing your story. so That's really good. I appreciate you all being here. I think that's the most important thing you said, that you know yourself and you knew there was a problem.
00:53:46
Speaker
And I think mothers and daughters have such an original relationship that sometimes you just got to say, nope, I know what ah what's going on and I know what's happening.
00:53:58
Speaker
Take care of yourself. I was going to say, that the scariest thing is that it's the number one killer women and we don't even know it. Usually it's very silent and they don't even know. They don't even know what's happening.
00:54:10
Speaker
Yeah. So that was terrifying. Well, we're glad you're here. So now that you're here, do you want to, do you want to end the show the way that I normally do since for fun? No, I think I'll let you take that one because I don't know that I could take that as well as you do. I don't know that I can hold that line up as well, but I appreciate it.
00:54:27
Speaker
Thank you to our guest, Tim Smith from HeartSearch CPR. Thank you to our guest, Nicole, for being alive. And this has been another episode of Dial It In. He's Dave. I'm Trigvie.
00:54:38
Speaker
Dial It In is edited and produced by Andy Witowski and tro and much with apologies to Tony Kornheiser, we will also try to do better the next