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S4 Ep06: The Art of the Show - Caleb McEwen's Performance Secrets
33 Plays16 days ago
In this episode of Dial It In, Trygve Olsen and Dave Meyer have a conversation with Caleb McEwen, an accomplished writer, performer, director, and founding member of The Danger Committee. They discuss the intense preparation and challenges faced by real estate agents, leading into Caleb's unique insights on integrating performance techniques into professional settings. Caleb shares his journey from joining The Danger Committee to mastering juggling and knife-throwing stunts. He emphasizes the importance of storytelling, audience engagement, and adaptability, drawing parallels between performance art and sales. Caleb also provides strategies for handling hecklers, maintaining audience interest, and overcoming the fear of public speaking. The episode concludes with tips on creating meaningful connections with the audience and promoting upcoming shows of The Danger Committee and Brave New Workshop.
Connect with Caleb:
…
Dial It In Podcast is where we gather our favorite people together to share their advice on how to drive revenue, through storytelling and without the boring sales jargon. Our primary focus is marketing and sales for manufacturing and B2B service businesses, but we’ll cover topics across the entire spectrum of business. This isn’t a deep, naval-gazing show… we like to have lively chats that are fun, and full of useful insights. Brought to you by BizzyWeb.
Links:
Website: dialitinpodcast.com
BizzyWeb site: bizzyweb.com
Connect with Dave Meyer
Connect with Trygve Olsen
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Dial It In'
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome to Dial It In, a podcast where we talk to fascinating people about marketing, sales, process improvements, and tricks that they use to grow their businesses. Join me, Dave Meyer, and Trigby Olson of BusyWeb as we bring you interviews on how the best in their fields are dialing it in for their organizations.
00:00:26
Speaker
Let's ring up another episode.
Challenges in Real Estate
00:00:30
Speaker
That last episode was something, right? How much real estate agents have to go through in order to just even get to the point where they can start selling. Yeah, that was great. And it's a lot. And I think it belies that even though there are a lot of people in the business, it takes a lot of can-do and a lot of work to be successful in that business.
00:00:54
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
Selling Process Challenges
00:00:56
Speaker
The funny thing is were going to talk about selling today, but this is actually a ah rerecord because part of what we're going to be talking about today actually happened of what happens during the selling process when things go wrong. oo ah It's going to be exciting. And one of my favorite busy web clients ever is going to be joining us and it's going to be an amazing episode that he was gracious enough to rerecord.
00:01:18
Speaker
Before we get into that, Dave, do we have a sponsor for
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00:01:21
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Meet Caleb McEwen
00:01:58
Speaker
Thanks, Dave. Our guest today is, like I said, just an amazing guy. I'm super excited to get into this. He is a writer, performer, and director with more than 25 years of experience helping people master the art of presence and persuasion.
00:02:12
Speaker
He's the longtime artistic director of the legendary Brave New Workshop, which is the nation's oldest satirical comedy theater. He has trained thousands in using performance techniques to enhance communication and leadership. He's also a founding member of the Danger Committee, a nationally recognized comedy and stunt show that blends humor, danger, and storytelling.
00:02:37
Speaker
So drawing from his background in theater, comedy, and live performance, he teaches business professionals how to use stagecraft to connect with audiences, influence decisions, and sell ideas more effectively.
00:02:50
Speaker
His approach is both practical and dynamic, turning performance into a powerful tool for modern selling. Welcome, Caleb McEwen from the Danger
Joining the Danger Committee
00:02:59
Speaker
Committee. Hello, folks.
00:03:02
Speaker
Super excited for you to be here, Caleb, because I know in my job as somebody who ah sells for a living, a lot of what you do is performance art. And so how did before we get into kind of how you can help today, but I want to talk about how did you get into ah being a part of something called the Danger Committee?
00:03:23
Speaker
It's a... yeah It's an odd story aspects of it are anticlimactic. So you're going to have to deal with that right off the bat. So there were three guys that I knew who were in a group called the Dewdrop Jugglers. And they had performed together for many years, and like almost two decades.
00:03:40
Speaker
And back in the 1990s, they actually won the International Juggling Association World Championship for Team Juggling. and they had been performing together for years.
00:03:52
Speaker
They had seen me at the Brave New Workshop. I had seen them performing in various places. And at one point, one of their members decided that it was time to move on retire and do other things.
00:04:06
Speaker
And he actually left to become an executive at a regional toy company. And the other two guys contacted me about joining and they actually at first were asking me if I was going to be, if I would be willing to write new material for them.
00:04:24
Speaker
And at the time I didn't entirely understand what they meant. And I asked them, am I writing for two people or for three? And they said, if you want to join, then it could be three.
00:04:35
Speaker
And i was like, okay. And I took that as an invitation. They didn't necessarily think that it was an invitation, but I think that they were just too afraid of me to say anything about it. So eventually I ended up becoming the third member of the group. so So let's talk about why they were mildly afraid of you. Cause you were not a juggler, you were not a great juggler, but you are better at something else.
00:04:59
Speaker
No, I could juggle in the way that the guy at the party can juggle. If you give him three oranges
Storytelling in Performances
00:05:06
Speaker
or balled up socks or something like that. At the time, that was about the extent of my ability. And I had no experience doing like team juggling, like passing patterns where you're throwing clubs.
00:05:17
Speaker
And let me interrupt because I think it's important for the audience to understand the difference between a guy at a party juggling three oranges. One of the juggling acts that you guys do is one guy is stationary and then another guy is on a scooter going around in circles juggling at the same time, too. So there's there's a big difference between the two. So anyway, this continues. I didn't have any real professional experience juggling.
00:05:47
Speaker
But I was a knife thrower and I actually had learned to throw knives because previously I had done a show with these guys and the third member before he moved on, where I wrote a show about a haunted restaurant that they worked in. They were like waiters in the restaurant and I was a ghost that was haunting it. And there was a sequence of knife throwing in it that was like a nightmare sequence. We staged the show the first time and the third member of the group did the knife throwing in the original iteration of the show.
00:06:17
Speaker
It was very popular and we rewrote some things. We brought it back and I was like, I want to extend the knife throwing aspect of this quite a bit. And, but it was going to require a little more of a commitment as far as practice and ability and things like that.
00:06:32
Speaker
And, at the time, the other member was like, i don't think that I'm going to have a chance to actually do this. So I said, then I'll do it. So I taught myself how to throw knives and then was on stage doing it in a show with him a couple of weeks later.
00:06:48
Speaker
And after that, when went after he retired, they invited me to join and my skillset was still in the knife throwing because I had continued doing that and developed it over the course of a number of years after that show.
00:07:02
Speaker
But they were still primarily jugglers as well. And the first time that I actually set foot on stage with them in front of an audience as part of the new group, I had only really been doing the team juggling aspect of it for about six hours at that point.
00:07:18
Speaker
So I had very limited skills in that area. And that was one of the first challenges that we faced when we were relaunching this group was to figure out how to integrate this person who had a completely different skill set into an existing form that they had been doing for decades at that point.
00:07:38
Speaker
How did you go about putting together a story since it's a a thing and everybody has seen and knife thrower before, and then everybody's seen jugglers before, but you guys are doing 90 minute shows that you're constantly reinventing and constantly presenting the same thing, but in completely new ways.
00:07:57
Speaker
Yeah. The way that we addressed it initially, because we knew that we weren't going to be able to do the things that they had done for years before and that some people would be expecting that, was we just leaned into the fact that I was not a juggler.
00:08:13
Speaker
And we made essentially a set of characters, and we made the show more about the story and the plot line the progression and the interaction between the people than it was about the tricks themselves.
00:08:26
Speaker
The tricks were very important. But they weren't necessarily what the show was about. And so the character that I portrayed was a character who hated juggling.
00:08:39
Speaker
So I was a member of a juggling team, but I hated juggling. And by extension, I hated jugglers too. So I was a knife thrower and I thought that knife throwing was the be all end all. I thought that juggling was embarrassing and something that shouldn't be done in public.
00:08:56
Speaker
And we would basically fight and argue through the whole show about what should be done next, who should do it, why should we do it, why juggling was bad, why knife throwing was good.
00:09:07
Speaker
etc, etc, etc. We made it much more about the stories than we did about the stunts. And now the stunts were big and difficult and have grown and grown over the years, but but that has never been the framework of the show. The show has always been the story that we're trying to tell and the characters that we're trying to portray and how they interact with each other.
00:09:30
Speaker
Because you can do a juggling or a knife throwing trick in a few seconds. But if you're trying to fill 90 minutes, you can't have thousands and thousands of tricks that are each a second long.
00:09:43
Speaker
You're trying to find things to fill that time in between. So we'll have a huge routine that's all built around us arguing about how it should end up. And then the finale of it or close to the finale is that we actually do it.
00:09:59
Speaker
I want to spend a lot of time talking about storytelling because I think you and the group are master storytellers, but for the sake of legitimacy, for those who don't know you, can you explain one of the stunts?
Unique and Dangerous Stunts
00:10:10
Speaker
Just so people know how ridiculously difficult, what some of the things you're doing.
00:10:15
Speaker
i think one of the most difficult knife throwing stunts that I do, probably the most difficult is we made a little Velcro strap with a clip on it and it it can wrap around someone's wrist.
00:10:29
Speaker
or forearm, and we put a Cheeto puff on that little clip. And then we put that person on a wheel and we spin them and I'll throw a knife and slice the Cheeto that is on the other person's arm.
00:10:44
Speaker
So that would be like, that's an end goal of a trick that we have, or we might have the guy's the guys We'll juggle, we'll do complex patterns, juggling nine torches or nine machetes back and forth amongst the three of us. Or we might have a flaming jump rope and somebody is juggling torches while they're jumping over this flaming jump rope that two other people are spinning.
00:11:08
Speaker
There are lots of things that are along those lines. Juggling stun guns, complex patterns where- Stun guns? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. we A lot of places won't let you use fire. Mm-hmm.
00:11:21
Speaker
because they have this thing about everyone burning to death. So you have to come up with things that are flashy and dangerous and exciting, but still fit through the narrow loopholes available in local fire codes. One of our solutions that we have is that we ah hired an engineer and we 3D printed adapters that will mount a stun gun on the end of a stick so that we can juggle them.
00:11:43
Speaker
And we'll use those a lot of times when we're not able to use fire. So again, just as if you're listening to this in your car or at the gym or something like that, it's important you can understand that Caleb mockingly did air quotes when he talked about the fire code.
00:11:59
Speaker
And as secondarily on a personal narrative, two things that I found are absolutely true in life. Number one is never play racket sports with an old man because they will punish you for your youth.
00:12:11
Speaker
Number two is if you know somebody who says I'm a knife thrower and you ask them if they're good at it and they're like, oh, I'm pretty good. Do not mess with them. but And you eventually learned how to juggle and you eventually learned to be a part of it. One of my favorite parts of the show is as you were learning to juggle, you just literally stand in the middle and then there's the pattern interrupt where you actually gra just ah grab one of the bowling pins as it's flying by.
00:12:36
Speaker
Sure. Like in when we first started, that has become a signature routine of ours. We literally call it the introduction because it's usually, if we're performing in front of a group that hasn't seen us before, it's usually the first thing we do because it sets up the different characters and the story. And it's a big juggling set piece. It it goes on for a while and they're complicated patterns, but the way that it starts out is they're juggling clubs.
00:13:03
Speaker
And when we first started I could juggle, i could pass with them in a three person pattern that we called the feed. It's a standard basic three person juggling pattern, but I was not reliable and I couldn't do it for long.
00:13:20
Speaker
So what we did was they were doing all of their tricks and juggling and throwing things back and forth. And the way that they integrated me was i would mock them and grab things as they flew past me and then replace them with other items or other clubs. So I was grabbing things out of the pattern and handing other things in because that's all I was able to do at the time.
00:13:44
Speaker
The fun thing was, is that because It wasn't a standard juggling thing. It was thing that a thing that juggling fans had not seen. So it immediately became, oh, this is this unique, different thing that you're able to do that other groups aren't. It wasn't that at all. It was just that we were leaning into the idea that I couldn't juggle, but we were still going to try to integrate me into a world championship juggling team.
00:14:10
Speaker
And that was the That was the impetus for that. And over the years, it developed into two different linked routines. One where I'm grabbing the clubs and putting other clubs in and mocking them. Like this is all juggling.
00:14:24
Speaker
Handing things back and forth in a pattern. And then there's another routine that usually follows it where a lot of times we'll get up a volunteer who will help us with this, but they start juggling clubs and I say that it's dumb and boring. So I start grabbing the clubs and replacing them.
00:14:41
Speaker
with more dangerous items like machetes or torches or what have you. That's how that evolved over time. And now it's just a signature part of the act. I can juggle much better than I could before. I still don't consider myself a great juggler, but i I'm a better than average team juggler if I'm working in a pattern and whatnot, because I have a lot of experience now doing that with them.
00:15:08
Speaker
It feels like part of what we've been talking about so far is adaptability. And certainly in sales, you have to be adaptable. And I hope anybody that's in a sales role right now is understanding that maybe they don't have the kind of pressure that they thought they did because you're not...
00:15:24
Speaker
juggling tasers and knives and throwing things at each other. But it is about making a connection with people. So can you talk a little bit about how you integrate the audience and like connect with the story?
Performing at Renaissance Festivals
00:15:39
Speaker
I'm sorry. I got lost there for a second. perfect wanted to I wanted to explain something about performing at a Renaissance festival. So number one, it's just an odd beast to begin with, but essentially you're performing Primarily in a lot of cases, at a lot of festivals, you perform for tips.
00:15:56
Speaker
You pass the hat at the end of the show, like buskers or street performers or things like that. Now we were on a stage and we'd have an audience, it was like a theater and whatnot. But at the end, we'd go down to the end of the aisles and people would pass by and we'd hold out a hat or a bucket and they'd drop money in it.
00:16:11
Speaker
Now the weird thing about that from a sales perspective, and that would probably make most salespeople just quake in fear is essentially what you do when you're performing at those types of events is you give away the product for free to everyone.
00:16:29
Speaker
And then afterwards you ask them to pay you. And that's a, that's a tough thing. You have to connect with them. You have to give them some kind of value where they are so moved by it that they are going to give you money, even though they have been given the product for free.
00:16:50
Speaker
And. For us, it was very much about portraying these characters and making everything that we did on stage seem like it was happening for the first time. Not even that it was just happening for the first time, but that we were figuring out what we were going to do for the first time ever.
00:17:08
Speaker
and were arguing about it. And everything that was happening seemed, or at least our goal was, that it would seem very organic and of the moment and that the audience was a part of it. It wasn't just that they were watching it, it's that they were involved.
00:17:22
Speaker
And we were constantly addressing them and we were constantly listening to them and talking directly to them, arguing on their behalf on both sides of this argument about juggling versus knife throwing and all of that.
00:17:35
Speaker
ah because we wanted it to feel like it was something that was specifically for them and that they were the only ones who were ever going to see this iteration of it. And that is the thing that I think sticks as much as anything else, as much as any of the as much as any of the juggling or the knife throwing or anything like that. I think people have have seen those characters and have connected with the characters and the story and what they're trying to do from a relationship standpoint.
00:18:03
Speaker
And that's what makes it attractive to people is that connection that you have with the audience. So they feel like they are a part of what is being created.
00:18:15
Speaker
Wow, that's awesome. And I think that for me, it feels like maybe the difference between B2B and B2C or retail sales, as in retail sales or B2C, when you're on a website and you're just clicking like on Amazon, it's very transactional and it's just done.
00:18:31
Speaker
But you really need to build a relationship with someone and have them feel like they're part of the solution with you. When you're having a B2B conversation, so like business to business.
00:18:43
Speaker
Yeah. So that's really cool. I want to follow that up because we had a prior conversation about this and I thought it was just absolutely fascinating. What do you do then when maybe the audience wants to join the conversation or join the performance and start heckling or just get it, getting involved in. If you could give us a couple of stories about some heckling experiences and how you've handled that in the past.
00:19:06
Speaker
It happens a lot. One of the things, because we're presenting this and it's like a show and it's like we're characters and while we're doing real stunts and the props that we're using are real and there is real danger.
Staying Comfortable on Stage
00:19:19
Speaker
I think because we do it comedically, there are a lot of people who separate themselves from the reality of it as they're watching. There's a certain amount of disassociation that happens and they think it's just a joke.
00:19:32
Speaker
So it would be very common for me to be throwing knives around a person and for someone in the audience to scream or try to distract me. I've had people throw things at me when I've been throwing knives before. I've had all kinds of things like that happen.
00:19:49
Speaker
And throwing like what? I've had people throw pennies at me margin before. I've had people throw like just paper and popcorn, stuff like that. it it's That's a little less common, but it I've performed enough in front of and so many people that eventually everything happens.
00:20:10
Speaker
so The thing that I've learned over time being on stage is that The only thing that is that you can do that is bad in front of an audience really is be uncomfortable.
00:20:25
Speaker
As long as you're okay with whatever happens, even if the you know the stage falls down, we fail every trick, everything's falling apart and it's all on fire around us and stuff. As long as you act like you're okay with it, you can get by.
00:20:40
Speaker
But if you seem bothered, if you seem like you're upset, if you seem like you're angry or you're scared or anything like that, in any way, if you are not comfortable, then you lose people immediately.
00:20:54
Speaker
They're uncomfortable too. And when a heckler heckles, you might have the greatest comeback in the world for that person. You might make an incredible joke about it. But if you do it from a place of anger or fear or like seeming like you're being defensive, it doesn't matter.
00:21:14
Speaker
You can say that same thing though, and you're completely comfortable and relaxed and you're okay with everything that's happening. And suddenly the audience loves it. So i think the first thing i do is always your comfort whenever you're in front of anybody.
00:21:32
Speaker
If you're comfortable, they're comfortable. If you are uncomfortable, they are uncomfortable. And there's really no getting around that. And that's the biggest thing for me is just trying to remain calm and remain comfortable throughout.
00:21:49
Speaker
Where does that confidence come from to be able to stand and people are sh shouting at you with knives in your hands? to me I say a lot of times to people, I work as emcee at corporate events a lot too.
00:22:03
Speaker
And then I will always tell people that confidence, everybody thinks that confidence comes from success. I think that confidence comes from failure. I think that you have to be, you have to fail enough that you almost become desensitized to failure.
00:22:20
Speaker
And you have to realize that it's not necessarily a problem a with me. It's not necessarily a problem with what I'm doing. It's just that sometimes things happen that are beyond your control.
00:22:31
Speaker
And then also sometimes you are presenting things to an audience and it's just not for them. They're there. They want to like it, but it just ends up being something that isn't for them.
00:22:44
Speaker
And I would imagine the same thing is true in sales. But when it's over, you can't beat yourself up about the fact, oh gosh, this audience didn't like juggling and knife throwing. They didn't like anything that we did. They didn't like juggling. They didn't like knife throwing. They didn't like comedy.
00:23:01
Speaker
What can we possibly do to win this audience over in the future? That audience isn't going to come back. It's already gone. You've cycled through that. you have to be looking at the next audience that you're going to. you have to let some people go because nothing is for everybody.
00:23:17
Speaker
It just absolutely isn't. When you look at the box office, like the top 10 box office movies of all time, I guarantee you, if you go through the list, you will see one in the top 10 that you just hated.
00:23:30
Speaker
You couldn't stand it, or you thought it was dumb. And yet across the globe, across the globe Billions of people decided that they loved it. The same thing is true with everything. There's just no accounting for taste.
00:23:45
Speaker
And there's also there's no accounting for need for a particular audience at a particular time. You might have just caught them in a bad mood. You might have just caught them at a time when what you're doing is not the thing that they're looking for on that particular evening or that particular afternoon.
00:24:02
Speaker
And you have to be willing to move on from that and realize that it's not necessarily you. And it's not their fault either. It's just not everything fits. And you have to be willing to move on.
Audience Engagement Strategies
00:24:14
Speaker
I think there's an interesting question to be had from that is how do you know if you've got them and or how do you know if you don't? I think you have to pay attention. You know, you see a lot of different performers and they'll have different theories on this. I've talked to people who are like, I just ignore the audience. It's just about what I'm saying or what I'm doing on stage and all of that. And for some people that works, it does not work for me.
00:24:38
Speaker
I am aware of the audience. but If the audience didn't matter, then why are you doing it for an audience? You could do a show in your basement alone at home if you wanted to, if it didn't matter.
00:24:50
Speaker
about audience reaction, and then why are you doing it? So the biggest thing that I think you're paying attention. ah You are trying to connect with them. It's not enough that you're just putting information out there.
00:25:02
Speaker
You're trying to phrase that information and present it in a way that it impacts these people. And the way that you're going to know that is by paying attention to their reactions, their mood, how they're engaged, all of that stuff.
00:25:16
Speaker
It's a. To me, it's just a matter of paying attention. You have to care about it. It has to be part of what you're doing. You are checking in and starting out doing this stuff at Renaissance festivals.
00:25:29
Speaker
Here's an immediate gauge of your, your audience's engagement at the end of it. Did they give you money or not? and There's a saying among street performers or buskers that the hat never lies. And if you pass the hat around and people aren't, but they're not buying into it, then you haven't connected with them.
00:25:46
Speaker
and you need to figure out what's wrong. You have a great stage act, but you ah you also are regular in residence at the Renaissance Festival, and I think you've done do three or four Renaissance festivals with a group around the country but on a regular basis.
00:26:01
Speaker
How does the act different differ? I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean from festival to festival, or...? Yeah. If you are, if you're doing a corporate event, that's obviously different than you're doing a Renaissance festival. but You've got your story, you've got the act.
00:26:17
Speaker
How do you need to change depending upon the other, knowing what your audience is? The truth of the matter is that not too much changes aside from honestly costumes.
00:26:30
Speaker
and It's, it, It's still the same thing. You still have a group of people, you're trying to connect with them. You're trying to get across these ideas. and It's just contextually, it's in a different environment.
00:26:42
Speaker
And I think it's the same to try to relate this to selling. you're selling to different clients, you're still selling the same product in most cases. But you're trying to come up with a value proposition or whatever you would call it for this industry or that industry or this business or that business. And a lot of it isn't a difference in the product itself that you're trying to sell. The difference comes in how you try to relate the value of that product to this specific group of people.
00:27:14
Speaker
So it's the same show, but a different connection that is being made. And sometimes that's relatively nuanced, but that's how I feel about it. I don't feel like a whole lot changes in the show besides superficial things.
00:27:31
Speaker
It's still three guys arguing about juggling versus knife throwing and generally disagreeing with each other while they're all trying to win over the audience to their way of thinking.
00:27:46
Speaker
I think one of the things that I like about your shows is like you said, you've said before it's basic things, but I'm constantly transfixed because I want to see what happens next.
00:27:58
Speaker
And I think as I reflected on it before we we got together today is I feel like there's a, you create a sense of curiosity in the audience. Like they want to know what, how is this all going to end?
00:28:11
Speaker
How do you, how do you build that, that idea where all eyes are on you and you're completely in control because you know what happens next, but they want, they don't know yet. I think that one of the things is by setting up the show in such a way that we are literally just trying to please the audience.
00:28:35
Speaker
It is us arguing over what is best for the audience. How are we going to, how are we going to please these people by doing that?
00:28:46
Speaker
I think it instills in the audience and i idea that the way that they react may create an outcome that has never happened before. So the level of connection the level of involvement that you bring to it for the audience, I think gives them a measure of control.
00:29:05
Speaker
And if they have a measure of control, they think that I can affect this and I can make it turn out in a different way than what they normally do. And i think that's why connection is very important because what you're trying to do again, is not hand somebody something that's already created.
00:29:25
Speaker
You are trying to have them participate in the creation of something that is specifically for them. It's the difference between just selling something that's pre-packaged and being consultative and trying to build something or at least convey a value proposition that is specific to a group so that they see why this is for them and how this will benefit them.
00:29:50
Speaker
That's a roundabout answer, but does that kind of address what you're talking about? Yeah. And I think the natural extension of that is probably the age old question How do you get over a fear of public speaking?
Public Speaking Advice
00:30:04
Speaker
Because I know Dave is an accomplished speaker. i am a semi-pro speaker. but You're an accomplished performer. How did, and maybe this is a question for Dave too, how did we all get here?
00:30:15
Speaker
Yeah. I think that the first thing that I would say is that I don't think that there, and this is disappointing to people a lot of times, I don't think that there's one answer. I don't think that the things that make certain people good speakers are universal.
00:30:32
Speaker
I've seen very quiet, soft-spoken speakers who don't move, stand stock still on stage. I've seen very animated people who are all over the place and have huge amounts of energy.
00:30:44
Speaker
I've seen people who use emotion, who are deathly serious. I've seen people who are very funny. And they can all be good in their own way.
00:30:55
Speaker
I think it boils down to how comfortable are you and how much does the audience believe in what you're conveying?
00:31:06
Speaker
I think that there are as many ways to be a successful speaker as there are people. And I think that a lot of bad speaking is built on the idea that there's one right way to do it.
00:31:18
Speaker
and you try to get people to fit in that box and they don't there are high energy charismatic people who bounce around the stage and are very entertaining and there are people who are the exact opposite but they're talking about a subject that is compelling to them it means something to them and they want it to mean something to the audience and they can deliver that material in a completely different way that is also engaging.
00:31:50
Speaker
And, you know, I think about standup comedians. There's some radically different standups out there who present things very differently and can be very funny to the same people.
00:32:03
Speaker
Same thing with speaking. It's just, what are you comfortable doing? And what, how authentic does the audience find what you're presenting? And more often than not,
00:32:15
Speaker
I think it it just boils down to that level of comfort. And you achieve that comfort in different ways. I also think that you can become a more effective speaker if you're uncomfortable in front of people by just acknowledging, hey, I'm not made comfortable doing this. I am not a speaker.
00:32:35
Speaker
i This isn't my job. But ah I do know a lot about this topic and this topic means a lot to me. And I think it should mean a lot to you too. So i'm going to talk about that.
00:32:46
Speaker
And if you see that I seem uncomfortable, just know that's because I'm not used to doing this in this way, but it's not because I feel uncomfortable about the information that I'm presenting.
00:32:59
Speaker
And by doing that, One, being honest, you connect with them, you humanize it, and you put the focus on something outside of yourself. And by moving it to something outside of yourself and saying, we're going to talk about this thing right now.
00:33:17
Speaker
You don't just put their focus on it, you put your focus on it too. So you stop thinking about yourself and you you move into this subject matter and you move into the audience's reaction and all of that.
00:33:29
Speaker
And the rest of it falls away a little bit and takes off some of that pressure. I also think that everyone's gonna have a different opinion on this and everyone's right and everyone's wrong.
00:33:42
Speaker
It's just, it's a matter of, Ultimately, what works for you is what works for you. And it's, it's not because there's a right way of doing it. It's because people are different.
00:33:53
Speaker
And there's a lot of tricks that you can, invent I've worked with lots and lots of speakers and other folks. And the thing that I always counsel folks, it seems to have the most effect is you, when you're in front of an audience, they want you to succeed.
00:34:07
Speaker
So we have a tendency to get in our heads and say, oh crap, I'm going to screw up. I'm to goof up or whatever. But your audience is actively cheering for you. And even in a sales conversation, the end goal, they wouldn't be taking a meeting with you if they didn't want to have this conversation come out as a successful thing
Aligning with Your Audience
00:34:27
Speaker
with whatever you're selling. They want to do what you're trying to sell them.
00:34:32
Speaker
And so it's a matter of you and that person aligning together. In service of whatever that goal is, right? In in your case, it's entertainment.
00:34:42
Speaker
In salespeople, they're looking to make that sale and come up with a great solution for whoever that person is that they're talking to. So I love the storytelling and the connecting as the common thread because that's what you need to align against.
00:35:00
Speaker
Dave, what how did you get over? i mean, you've never really had a fear of public speaking, I don't think. Not since I've known you. but I think, yeah, and it was it started when I was very young. i was in choir and did a little bit of really terrible acting.
00:35:14
Speaker
And those things, just getting on stage and realizing that it wasn't going to kill me, And opening my mouth and expressing was it. And you just, you all of a sudden you get calluses and you realize, okay, I am, I need to connect first with the message and with the audience.
00:35:31
Speaker
And it's not about me. And they're not going to remember me. They'll remember how I made them feel. So connecting and being passionate about who you are and who you are in that space for them is how I really got over. And yet I'm nervous in the moments until I get on stage.
00:35:52
Speaker
And then Caleb, I don't know how if you feel the same way they say how you have used 10% of your brain. I feel like it's more like 80% as soon as I step on stage. So it just focused me and so there's me and it's, it's a thrill.
00:36:04
Speaker
It's delight. Yeah. i Especially if you're getting, if you're and you've got them. Right. I know we've all probably had experiences where you're just missing. And I think that's one of the hardest things in the world is to keep going when you know when you know that they, you don't have the audience.
00:36:23
Speaker
And you know, what happens in sales is i think in Caleb's world, they get heckled and sales are like, just how much is it? And they just want to skip to the end because they're through with, because if you're not confident and you don't have a command of the material and the story you want to tell, then people just want to skip to the end.
00:36:42
Speaker
get to the good stuff. So I have a one last question for you, Caleb, and it's going to be a, probably one that's going to branch off and other questions is we we're living in a world right now where half of the world hates you for what you believe.
00:36:56
Speaker
And despite that, you, I think are a champion of continuing to be funny in, in an environment like that. So yeah, Can you give us some idea? How do you do that in this state this day and age? What can you recommend that people, how can people continue to be funny today?
Humor and Society
00:37:16
Speaker
It's a tough question. And it is it is very polarized right now. I think that at the end of the day, everyone wants the same things. They just have very different ideas about how to achieve them.
00:37:30
Speaker
And It's remembering that there is a core of humanity and everyone, even if it doesn't seem like it at times. And it is not that people want different things. It's just that they have different ways of achieving those things.
00:37:46
Speaker
And everyone is a product of their experience. And but someone who has. been a lot of places and done a lot of different things and coming from a very small town background and whatnot, you, every single day you realize that there are things in the world that you just don't understand because that has not been your experience and different people have different experiences and that's absolutely fine.
00:38:19
Speaker
And What you have to be willing to do is to try to create a connection with people so that you can find that common ground and you can find ways to be funny because ultimately everybody essentially wants the same things. Everybody wants to feel safe and happy.
00:38:40
Speaker
And we just have different ideas about how that's going to happen. And those different ideas can all be right. depending on who you are and where you are and what you do and what your situation is.
00:38:55
Speaker
And the idea that there is one right way to do everything for everyone is crazy. You can't do that. You can't put that on absolutely everyone.
00:39:09
Speaker
And that's what I always have to remember every time I'm in front of a different group or in a different situation. And that's what I'm always trying to work towards.
00:39:20
Speaker
I want to share a personal anecdote, which I think I do frequently on this, but the last time I went to your show, I brought my son who was, i think seven at the time and I bought danger committee merch. And it was one of the, probably the best things I ever bought because it it was a t-shirt that said, I make poor life decisions.
00:39:39
Speaker
And what is so memorable about it is not only was it a wonderful show and my son loved it, the next day he and I went Pokemon hunting at a particular park in St. Paul. And this was during the pandemic.
00:39:51
Speaker
And so there was an outdoor wedding ah happening. And so I inadvertently took a picture of my son holding his thumb up like this with a big toothy grin ah just because he was being cute that day. And then my wife thought it was the funniest thing ever because...
00:40:06
Speaker
Here was a buck tooth kid in front of a wedding wearing a t-shirt saying I make poor life decisions. It's a valued place in our home and I thank you for that. Caleb, before we go, we love to offer people the opportunity for naked
Promoting the Danger Committee
00:40:20
Speaker
self-promotion. So if they want to learn more about the danger committee or even come to one of your shows, how do they do that?
00:40:26
Speaker
You can go to thedangercommittee.com, like us on the majors of social media. We're easy to find. We have a holiday show that we'll be running at the Luminary Arts Center this December.
00:40:38
Speaker
I think we've got, I don't know, I think it's like 12 performances. And you can find out about that at luminaryartscenter.org. I also am the artistic director of the Brave New Workshop. We have holiday shows coming up as well. This year it's called The Chaos of the Bells.
00:40:53
Speaker
And you can find out more about that at bravenewworkshop.org or hennepinarts.org. There are a lot of other things going on at the Brave New Workshop too. You can find out about them on those websites or on the majors of social media.
00:41:07
Speaker
Dave, tough topic today. How to how do you think we we did? and what What can people really glean from this? I thought this was fascinating and so much fun. I think if you can at all work your way into carrying knives with you into any sales conversation, you'll probably sell more.
00:41:25
Speaker
But if you can't connecting very closely with aligning yourself. with the person that you're selling to or your audience in caleb's case against a common enemy aka boredom or not getting something done is where the magic happens so really connecting and telling stories and aligning and paying attention to your audience is where it goes so thank you caleb this was absolutely fun i loved it yeah thank you yeah Wonderful. Thank you to Caleb, our guest today. I'm Trigvy. He's Dave. We are produced as always by Nicole Fairclough and Andy Witowski.
00:42:04
Speaker
Thank you for the donuts, Rob Felber. And just with apologies to Tony Kornheiser, we will also try to do better the next time.