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Julie Thurlow – Gaining a holistic perspective, surviving trial by fire at the FDIC, and keeping things interesting as CEO | Episode 23
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Welcome to episode nineteen of Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief! Joining me today is Julieann (Julie) Thurlow, President and CEO of Reading Cooperative Bank.
On this show, I’m unpacking the stories, decisions, and influences that make people successful leaders.
Growing up in the tiny seaside town of Lubec, Maine, Julie Thurlow quickly learned independence and reliance on family values. It was an idyllic upbringing for a child, but held scarce opportunities for a smart young woman eager to make a career. Despite her college scholarship for music, Julie eventually found her way to banking
My name is Nathan Baumeister; I am the Co-founder of ZSuite Tech and the host of this podcast.
Her time playing music was formative for her work as a leader, giving her an understanding of when to stand in the spotlight and when to step back and let the band or someone else play.
Many bankers find themselves forced to work at the FDIC as a result of working at a failed bank and being taken over by the FDIC. Julie voluntarily left her first banking job and took a role at the FDIC during the New England Banking Crisis of the 1990s. This allowed her to take a front-row seat in learning what caused banks to fail and how it could be avoided in the future. It shaped her love for the people working in banking, and her commitment to running a healthy, stable institution.
Today, Julie is running a bank that has been cooperatively owned by its customers for more than a hundred years. Her approach to innovation has led Reading Cooperative Bank to become a pioneer, showing community banks everywhere that personal banking services and modern technology are mutually beneficial, not mutually exclusive.
Julie is no stranger to upending stereotypes and creating opportunities for people who might not otherwise have a chance to grow and take their own turn in the spotlight. For now, we’re thankful that we could shine a light on her journey and share it with you.
Resources:
Julie’s book recommendations:
Connect:
Recommended
Transcript
Julie's Banking Career Beginnings
00:00:00
Speaker
shortly after I started in banking, um the New England banking crisis happened. And I probably was one of the few bankers that actually elected to go to the FDIC because um there were very few other opportunities at the time, rather than ending up there because my bank failed.
00:00:16
Speaker
And so so I ended up working at the FDIC's Office of Liquidation um during the years when we were closing banks in Massachusetts. And um I don't even remember the sheer number. It was every every weekend one or two bank was banks were failing. And um at that time, um you wouldn't know until Thursday whether or not you were on the closing group. And on on Friday, you'd actually end up arriving at a bank that was closing.
Nathan Introduces Julie Thurlow
00:00:47
Speaker
Hi, my name is Nathan Baumeister, and you're listening to Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief, a podcast where executives from the world of finance and technology share the story of how they got where they are and the decisions that made them who they are.
00:01:01
Speaker
I'm looking for hidden moments of truth and sacrifice, wisdom and folly, and what it's like to navigate the treacherous waters at the helm of a growing company. I want to do all that so that together we can learn from their journey and use that insight personally and professionally.
00:01:18
Speaker
In episode 23, my guest is Julie Thurlow, president and CEO of Reading Cooperative Bank, a Massachusetts institution that has been collectively owned by its account holders for more than a century.
00:01:30
Speaker
Growing up in a small seaside town in Maine, Julie learned the importance of self-reliance and integrity to her family's values. The neighborhood was idyllic for a child, but lacked opportunity for anyone with high career ambitions.
00:01:44
Speaker
Julie left home with a college scholarship for music and eventually found her way to banking as an alternative to teaching.
Lessons from the Banking Crisis
00:01:51
Speaker
As with so many leaders, it was Julie's encounter with specific mentors who helped her discover her zone of genius and pursue greater challenges and responsibility.
00:02:01
Speaker
During the New England banking crisis in the early 1990s, Julie took a job with the FDIC, helping restabilize failed banks. The experience was a trial by fire that forged Julie's ability to execute on high-level strategy and to empathize with the employees and account holders who were devastated by the collapsing banks.
00:02:22
Speaker
Today, as president and CEO of Reading Cooperative Bank, Julie leads an institution that exemplifies the stakeholder theory of management and business, where each customer of the bank has a say in the long-term plan, equal parts profit, and people.
00:02:37
Speaker
This requires a careful balance of perspectives, fully embracing the individual dramas of human experience and rising above them to cast a vision that will benefit the larger community.
00:02:48
Speaker
It's my pleasure to bring you episode 23 of Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief so that you can join Julie Thurlow on the Balcony of Leadership where she reminds all of us that humility and sacrifice are the hallmarks of true leadership, not public accolades or the spotlight.
00:03:15
Speaker
Julie, I can't tell you how excited I am to have you on Builder, Banker, Hacker Chief. Thanks for joining. Thanks for having me. You know, i I still remember the first time I met you.
00:03:27
Speaker
It was right before COVID. I went into Reading Co-op's corporate offices, and it was the first time i have walked into a bank's office and thought, is this a bank or is this a tech company?
00:03:41
Speaker
And, you know, from there on out, that set the set the tone for all of my interactions with you, and I've just so much enjoyed getting to know you over the years and watching all the great things that you do in our space. ah Thanks for sharing that. um It actually means a lot for us. We have you know a lot of um our beliefs and our values posted on the walls and it helps us. Sometimes you walk by them, you don't see them and sometimes they speak to you.
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah. Sometimes you that visual reminder just hits you right in the face, right? Yeah. Especially the cooperative, damn it. Yeah. I love that. Well, as we start our conversation today, i'm excited to personally learn more about your own story, but also to let our listeners learn about our story.
Julie's Upbringing and Career Shift
00:04:24
Speaker
ah But I'd love to dive in first, kind of the beginning of your life. And what experiences as you were growing up do you think helped you to become the leader that you are today?
00:04:36
Speaker
you know Hindsight's 20-20, so now we we get to look back into the past with all that with all that hindsight. Well, and um so go way back. And um I actually grew up in Maine.
00:04:49
Speaker
um Great place to grow up. I actually grew up in a neighborhood with all boys and an older brother that used to like to beat on me. And so, you know, call ah constantly reaching and stretching, right? And um and um and competing with him and and all the other kids in the neighborhood that happened to all be boys.
00:05:07
Speaker
um and um But um it was really um not having any boundaries, right? um You could just run the neighborhood. Our so our town was Lubeck, Maine, 2,000 people.
00:05:18
Speaker
And we had the ocean right down the street. it just was an idyllic place to grow up. It was not a good place to make money. ah My first job, I delivered newspapers, and then I did babysitting.
00:05:29
Speaker
And then eventually I ended up waiting tables, waiting tables. What a great job. There are days as CEO that I wish I could go back. um You work really hard. You meet some great people. You meet some kind of shitty people, but you just try to win them over because that's how you get paid.
00:05:44
Speaker
And at the end of the day, you walk out with cash in your pocket um and ah hard work is behind you and you don't have anything to bring home with you. Right. The day is done. Nothing's carrying over. Nothing's going sitting on that desk the next day.
00:05:58
Speaker
um It really is. You're you're paid and and rewarded that day. And it's cash. yeah you know you're not You're not the first person we've had on this podcast that has talked about having an early job where you have to deal with the public and how important that was in building a lot of their skill sets. I'm curious, just as you think about your waiting days, ah any any fun stories that pop out to you?
00:06:21
Speaker
Oh, you mean when I spilled food on somebody or- ah and I just i I love it was actually it became a challenge to win over the grumpy people.
00:06:34
Speaker
Right. And so I guess you could fast forward today and whenever there's a problem, that's what ends up on your desk. um When people want to leapfrog the person in front of them, they don't like the answer that they have.
00:06:46
Speaker
um And we have a philosophy that's customer first, you know, make it feel like it's private banking for every single bank bank customer that comes into the bank. And if that's the case, you've got to just win them over, even if they're not right.
00:06:59
Speaker
Actually, just acknowledging, recognizing, and and trying to meet their expectations. Yeah, absolutely.
00:07:10
Speaker
Well, and i can't I can't miss this opportunity to ask a kid that grew up in Maine that felt like she didn't have any boundaries. I mean, it makes me think of Yeah.
00:07:22
Speaker
ah I love Derry, Derry, Derry, D and just you know it it it definitely makes me think of that quintessential like little get little kids growing up ah living their lives and getting a lot of lived experiences without adult sitting right over their shoulders watching them and ah allowing you to kind of grow and stretch and it it sounds like you had you know very similar experience Even riding the bikes, right?
00:07:55
Speaker
Without the clown. You have to live some of the values that you learned at home, though, right? There are opportunities to to kind of go off the path. and um And you always kept the group together. And, you know, even fast forward when you're in your 20s, when you're in college and and just making sure you got your crew and everybody takes care of your crew.
00:08:16
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's move into college. So I know that you did you got your undergraduate degree, in a degree that most most people probably would not associate ah with a bank CEO.
00:08:31
Speaker
ah But I'd love to hear a little bit about that story and your journey kind of in that formal education process. Yeah, so I play piano. um I ended up getting a scholarship for music. And that's when my folks couldn't afford to pay for college. And so guess what I went to college for? And and I enjoyed it. um And I do enjoy playing the piano. But when I actually graduated, that's when the school budgets were being cut.
00:08:52
Speaker
um And so what do you do? You go work for a bank. I think anybody that that didn't go into education went into banking back then. um And I really didn't want a classroom of 30 snot-nosed kids, right?
00:09:05
Speaker
um I really, um ah couple of kids are fine, but anything more than a couple, and it gets kind of wild. um So um decided I didn't want to do that. And to be honest, I can play anything that you give me music for, but I'm not a creator.
00:09:20
Speaker
and And in my mind, that's the difference between a real musician and someone who plays somebody else's music. um so um um And I fell into banking and I absolutely loved it. Maybe it's the the rhythm, the math that's involved in it. I always um did well at math. um And I also had really good leaders that actually saw opportunities for me and helped me get to those and saw that I was willing to do the hard work to do it. too um I went back to school at night for my business degree and never stopped.
00:09:54
Speaker
I think that's from a messaging standpoint, if you can continue to learn and grow, don't just presume your first job is where you're going to end up. um But it's up to you to do that. It's not up to somebody else to make that happen.
00:10:07
Speaker
But also finding people that actually can help you along your pathway, people that you respect um and can follow their leadership. Yeah, isn't that balance so weird where you have to be self-directed, you have to be self-driven, you have to do all those things, but part of that is you also have to rely on others to be able to help and and mentor you. how How have you found that balance ah throughout throughout your career?
Impact of Mentorship on Julie's Career
00:10:32
Speaker
Ooh, I don't know if it's a balance or if it's just good luck. I actually, um have every place I landed, I could tell you of a person who actually spent time with me.
00:10:42
Speaker
um And maybe it's being open to other people and listening to what they have to say and and being willing to learn from other people. um So the very first bank I worked for, Jim Coulter was there and he was the CFO. And um I had an opportunity to go into the finance area. And he's like, no, i really think your talent would be lending.
00:11:01
Speaker
um And who knew? i absolutely did lending and loved it. Became a commercial lender. And um Even in that commercial lending experience, you're exposed to so many different businesses.
00:11:13
Speaker
and you know the The big deals are done by the Cree lenders, but the really awesome deals are actually done by the C&I lenders because every single business is different. It's different. and yeah Yeah. and And anybody that starts a business is – um First of all, they're fearless because they're willing to step out and they're starting a business from scratch because they're good at something and they're willing to throw their all into it and risk their their all their personal investments and and anything that they've actually built up. And so um anybody that's willing to do that, then if they have a good banker that can help them um and facilitate that growth, it's rewarding just seeing every business be successful because you've got to have a part in that.
00:11:55
Speaker
yeah And that's really, that's economics 101, right? We can close the book now. It's got to be one of the best parts of being a banker, right? Like being able to see ah all these little businesses get started and and grow and flourish and and be a part of their story.
00:12:15
Speaker
It's money multiplication, but it's also you're creating jobs through other people. um Their talent and your money um is actually creating opportunity for other families then to be successful so that they can buy a home. And so it's just this virtuous circle. See, banking is virtuous. Yeah. you feel like you're church? Yeah.
00:12:34
Speaker
i'm I'm at the, yes, the the the church of banking. i i You know, it's it's funny. I fell into ah banking and banking technology back in 2007 and very ignorant of the whole space. But I have to tell you, just jumping into it in the for the first time and really understanding the critical role ah that ah the community banks, regional banks, even the national banks, and even the worldwide banks the world. and the credit unions, like all just the whole ecosystem and what it does to be able to help drive innovation in our economy. It really is. it is really, it is virtuous. And I love seeing that.
00:13:15
Speaker
So like the way you actually described the whole landscape of banking because so often um regulators and um try to pitch small banks, regulators or legislators try to pit small banks against big banks.
00:13:28
Speaker
um And we can't do at Reading Co-op what JPMorgan Chase can do for the largest companies. But they also can't do what we do. There is no way that they they can get into every corner and truly meet the right need for the right customer at the right time.
00:13:43
Speaker
And so um it is and that's the beauty of the American banking system is there's so many different financial institutions doing different things. um And but the fabric of all of it makes for the healthiest um banking system in the world.
00:13:58
Speaker
Yeah, no, I i i totally agree. Now, i have I have two questions for you, kind of going back a little bit to early professional days and um during college.
00:14:09
Speaker
So one is, is the amount of entrepreneurs, the amount of CEOs, the amount of leaders that you run into who play musical instruments is actually really, really high.
00:14:20
Speaker
So i I would love just to hear kind of, though, I know you got your undergrad in it and then you moved on from it as a profession, but you also, you did share, you still play the piano. and I'd love to hear a little bit of what being a musician has maybe helped you do in your profession, and and and explore that just a little bit.
00:14:40
Speaker
um So, so my dad, um so I was adopted. My mom and dad were at West Point. They couldn't have kids. And so they adopted me. My dad was given the opportunity to go to Vietnam or go to West Point and play in the U.S. Army Band.
00:14:55
Speaker
so he's Which one would you pick? i e yeah Such a, such a choice. And so he, um, um And so he was a really good bugler. And so he would play Reveille every morning, wake up all the cadets.
00:15:08
Speaker
Oh my, yeah, that's awesome. yeah He was the one. He was the one. And, um but he also would um ah march in the U.S. Army band for any of the inaugurations and for um any other time when the U.S. s Army Band was actually asked for.
00:15:24
Speaker
um So um lover lover of music. And so my brother and I were going to play instruments. And he also then went to um seminary. He took the GI Bill and went to seminary, became a minister. So then I got to be a a church pianist.
00:15:40
Speaker
And so um lots of lots of opportunity to use musical instruments. But um I also play clarinet in the band and probably every single one of the bankers you were talking about were probably a band kid.
00:15:53
Speaker
And the band kids were always the nicest kids. But you also learn um that you're a part of a group and it's not all about you and it's not about standing out as yourself special. um It's actually blending your music and making music.
00:16:05
Speaker
ah melodious harmony um together instead of being the star of the show. um I don't know if that has anything to do with the question that you asked, but that's all of a sudden what came to mind when I actually think about music and and how I got there and the fact that there are so many bankers that actually also play instruments.
00:16:24
Speaker
This is a leadership principle that I've seen over and over in my career. The best leaders also know how to be the best followers. When you're playing music in a band, you need to recognize that you're not the star of the show, unless that's your role for the moment.
00:16:40
Speaker
As a leader, you need to figure out how to contribute to the team's objective, regardless of who gets the credit. It takes a lot of maturity and wisdom to step into the spotlight when it's needed, and then fade into the background so that someone else can step up.
00:16:54
Speaker
Okay, so the next question I wanted to ask just about, ah little bit about the education side, but also I'd just love to get your opinion as a leader of a um of a great and thriving company.
00:17:09
Speaker
The role of formal education, i think his...
00:17:15
Speaker
evolved over the years. I know you had mentioned back when you were growing up, not everyone went to college, that wasn't a thing. And for the last several decades, it's been, you know, if you go to college, you're going to get a good job and you're going to be successful. And if you want a good job, they're going to make sure that you have ah you're at least your undergraduate degree, but maybe you need your master's or you need your PhD or whatever.
00:17:37
Speaker
And I think you're starting to hear a little bit more of, hey, maybe not everyone needs to go to college, especially as the price of education has gone up. So I would just love to hear ah your perspective on the role of formal education for those people that want to step into significant leadership roles.
00:17:56
Speaker
So as far as formal education is concerned, it is something that creates a foundation that you have. But now, you know, my foundation was primarily a music degree, um but also all the basic um courses that everybody has to have.
00:18:11
Speaker
um I think depending on where you are and what you actually have access to, you can still make something from that. um We actually have and internship program here at the bank. We have two high school branches um and those are feeder programs that actually bring um young folks from our vocational schools into the bank, um into a business role.
00:18:33
Speaker
And um those interns eventually become employees of the bank. um A lot of those interns arent aren't going straight to college, but through the programs that we actually have um for college both the the state internship program, that's a certificate program, um but just by being employees of the bank, they can actually go back to college um at night and actually achieve.
00:18:58
Speaker
um When you actually know what you want to do and are going to school, it's very different than just going to college for the sake of going to college, um if that's um that makes sense. So when I went to school at night, everything that I took, um the classes that i specifically chose were ones that were going to make me better at my job.
00:19:17
Speaker
um When you go to college right from high school, you don't know what that job's going to be. You don't really understand exactly how what you're learning today is going to apply. um I think it's important for people that want leadership roles to always have um and mind open.
00:19:32
Speaker
um and seeking out educational opportunities that will elevate them where they are. And I'd also say when I got my MBA, which was in 2000, that's not what they're teaching in MBA schools now.
00:19:43
Speaker
um the The way you build a business plan and innovate and create products and go to market today, 20 years ago, it was entirely different because of the technology that's available and how people are receiving things and just how we actually think um ah about friction and how you build something before you would build it all the way out and not even know if the customer wanted it. You just hope.
00:20:05
Speaker
Hope and pray is not a strategy. And so um going back um every five, 10, 15 years is important to actually keep yourself relevant.
Continuous Education and Adaptability
00:20:16
Speaker
um And um how it's actually how you understand how the worldview is. um And I've been able to do that. In fact, one of the most powerful education programs that I actually participated in um was, I think about five years ago, is the LEADS program. It's actually run by Harvard um professors for the benefit of a low-income gateway city in Massachusetts.
00:20:40
Speaker
um And it's actually spun out as a nonprofit, and now it's um running in other gateway cities as well. But that brought individuals from cross-sectoral individuals into a room together and taught them some of the newest ideas that were being taught. And um the trust building and even that um meeting with municipal leaders and nonprofits and small businesses and learning in that collective um was probably one their most powerful learning experiences I ever experienced. So thinking about where you're getting your learning from and how it it how it can actually um expose you and open your mind up to elements that you might not be exposed to otherwise.
00:21:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And, ah you know, pulling on that thread, i know that you shared that from Harvard, but I know that there's multiple different times throughout your career that you've gone back into some sort of formal educational process ah to be able to do that. So it's like I love seeing that you've lived the advice that you just gave.
00:21:43
Speaker
one ah One of the things that I took away from some of your comments as really it's a the medium by which you're going to learn isn't as important as understanding the why.
00:21:55
Speaker
Sometimes it's going to be exploratory. I'm not sure exactly what I want to do, but let's go get exposure. Let's have some foundation. Let's have some framework. And other times it's very intentional. I know I want to do this and I want to be better and I need to stay up to date. So I'm going to actively look for with direct intention of what I want to do and how I want to get that education.
00:22:15
Speaker
And I think understanding that why can help a lot of people who might be struggling with this question. Because I get this all the time. Hey, Nathan, should I get my MBA? Hey, Nathan, I never graduated. Should I a should i go get my undergrad?
00:22:26
Speaker
I think what you just shared gave me a good framework to share with them to ask, well, why? Why are you thinking about doing it? And what are you hoping to get out of it? Because depending on how you answer that question, there's different paths that you could go.
00:22:39
Speaker
So thank you for sharing those insights.
00:22:42
Speaker
You're welcome. So, as we we we talked a little bit about you fell out of music and into banking and really just fell in love with it. And so, I'd i'd love to just kind of go through what was your path as you grew up as as a banker and what were some of the key moments that really helped you to understand what you wanted to do? You already shared the story.
00:23:07
Speaker
about the CFO who kind of took you under the wing and said, hey, lending might be the place where you really can really can thrive. But I'd love just to learn even more about that. So we just we talked about lending earlier, where how um how how um how rewarding it was to put money into individuals' hands um and see what they did with it for someone to buy a home, for someone to start a business, for someone to buy a business, for someone to scale a business.
00:23:35
Speaker
um But After that banking experience, so I started in banking um and I didn't realize that it was a um industry that was on the brink of crisis. But shortly after I started in banking, and the New England banking crisis happened.
00:23:51
Speaker
And I probably was one of the few bankers that actually elected to go to the FDIC because um there were ah very few other opportunities at the time rather than ending up there because my bank failed.
00:24:03
Speaker
um And so so I ended up working at the FDIC's Office of Liquidation um during the years when we were closing banks in Massachusetts. And um I don't even remember the sheer number. It was every every weekend, one or two bank was banks were failing. And um at that time, um you wouldn't know until Thursday whether or not you were on the closing group.
00:24:23
Speaker
um And on on Friday, you'd actually end up arriving at a bank that was closing. And I think just ah to segue, i think when there are crises that happen, whether they're inside your bank or whether they're outside your bank or wherever you are, when those opportunities are really when you thrive and grow.
00:24:42
Speaker
It also is when leaders actually see who is willing to run into the fire and help or who's complaining because they have too much work on their desk. And so there's um that there are just kind of two views when I think about um about how and who actually grew so the most during those periods and and who actually found another job because it was just too difficult.
00:25:04
Speaker
um But I think I learned a lot also about leadership during those um those rough years, because on Fridays we'd end up walking into a bank. We're going to close a bank.
00:25:16
Speaker
um And the people that are there are just the people that are running the bank. They're not the people that made the leadership decisions or concentration decisions or decided to put too much into construction or too much much into condos, or maybe even there were there was direct fraud within the institution itself.
00:25:32
Speaker
um But the lives that were shattered as a result, people that had worked their entire careers supporting and building a bank and feel as passionately about that or felt as passionately about that bank as I feel about my bank now,
00:25:44
Speaker
And it just disappeared overnight. And and but at the same time, you're going in on the weekend and a Monday morning, this bank is going to open up as a different bank. um And all those assets and liabilities have to be tallied, counted, converted. And um and the customer needs to be serviced at the other financial institution on Monday morning. So um being able to motivate and get people to work with you and for you, even though they're at a moment of personal crisis,
00:26:12
Speaker
um helped me develop um empathy both for people in that workspace um and um figure out how to motivate people um by treating them well and and having compassion for them, but also getting the job done.
00:26:28
Speaker
Yeah, I couldn't imagine how hard that would be. Both, you know, obviously the people who are at the bank, as you mentioned, many of which didn't have any control of what was happening to them. But then from your perspective, having to step in and understand that this huge emotional turmoil is going in these people's lives and heads, but so be like, well, but and I still have a job to do.
00:26:51
Speaker
And I still have a job to do, yeah. um And you're marshalling assets. um And um I think the other thing during those crises, learning what people did, um because then we got to take the assets that weren't very good, because no bank picked up those ones, um and seeing the decisions that were made that got loans in trouble um and figuring out how to unravel situations.
00:27:15
Speaker
and So there's a lot of exposure to some very interesting transactions. And yeah um I've always, um ah know a lot of bankers that are of my own generation um talk about the things that we learned during that period. And there's, until you have a crisis, every loan is good, right?
00:27:33
Speaker
the Exactly, right yeah. And and then um the storm comes and then you realize that there is a difference between a good loan and a bad loan. There's a lot to be said for learning from positive role models and proven strategies.
00:27:47
Speaker
But oftentimes the most durable formative lessons come from surviving a crisis and gaining intimate knowledge of the wrong way to do something. Hopefully as a leader, you can learn from someone else's mistakes.
00:27:59
Speaker
As you just heard from Julie, it's easy to convince yourself that all your decisions are brilliant when the economy is good. It's much harder to ignore your mistakes when a storm is in full swing and the organization is capsizing.
00:28:15
Speaker
It is really cool that you have this experience to be able to see that multiple times, like every other week. Every week, it could be a different story for you to be able to learn, hey, what went wrong here?
00:28:27
Speaker
And I'm sure now you can lean back on those experiences and and and be like, oh, we probably don't want to do that. Let me tell you a quick story about this one bank over here.
00:28:38
Speaker
so but ah So there was a term back then in substance foreclosure that I just actually literally pulled um out of the cobwebs the other day at at our loan committee.
Leadership During Banking Crises
00:28:51
Speaker
And so you're absolutely right. These obscure things that happen during a crisis um that actually become a repository of knowledge that you can actually reach back and shake off, dust off and... and um put back in use in the future, whether it was loan modifications that we had to do to to um to to work out loans and being able to then apply the same knowledge and information when we ended up in the pandemic. And all of a sudden, we're thinking about how are we going to help our customers get through this without triggering a host of bad loans.
00:29:25
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. All right. I have a, I have a somewhat deep question for you, but I think this is a great time to, to talk about this because it is a real thing. I know a lot of leaders work through.
00:29:36
Speaker
So as leaders, You build empathy, you care about people, they have everyone has hard things that they're dealing with. In this case, you were working with people who you know might be losing their job or their institution was going under.
00:29:53
Speaker
And as you have that empathy and you start understanding their feelings and get to know them, it's hard not to take that upon yourself.
00:30:05
Speaker
And on the other side, no matter what human emotions are going on around you, you have a job to do. In this case, you had ah a bank that you had to transition. you have a bank that you need to run now.
00:30:17
Speaker
And regardless of what's going on in people's lives or your own lives, you still have to work through that. and have to be able to push through the difficulty in these emotions um that you care deeply about, these people that are going through difficult times. I'd just love to get ah some thoughts from you about this. How how can you remain mentally healthy or um have your emotions regulated in a way
00:30:49
Speaker
that you can have that deep deep empathy for people and understand where they're coming from and have a deep care and might even say love for the people that you're working with while also still being able to, to move forward and take action and do the things that you need to do as a leader.
00:31:07
Speaker
Um, that is a difficult question. So I've been very, um, I'm very good at compartmentalizing um and and separating the decision that I'm making um from the emotions.
00:31:21
Speaker
um So um I guess I'd use the term going up to the balcony to be able to see um the emotions and understand them, um but then to also see the way through and the path.
00:31:35
Speaker
um may not be perfect for everyone, um but as long as you treat people with respect and recognize that you're dealing with human beings um and um and find the best way forward for everyone.
00:31:49
Speaker
um And so it it um does require almost like um moving moving the pieces around a little bit. um um Never make a rash decision um without stepping back and thinking about the implications for everybody that is involved.
00:32:05
Speaker
um But then thinking about what is the right decision for the financial institution and how will that impact the people? And um how can you make that the easiest possible, easiest way possible? Or what's the best decision in that? So it really is stepping back um and not running in.
00:32:23
Speaker
um Going back to education, when I did my master's program, there was one there was one part. um of the program, which was all about your personality and understanding who you are.
00:32:35
Speaker
And i um tend to be a little bit impulsive. And so what I just described to you is not impulsive. And so being willing to acknowledge that there may be some parts of your personality that are abrasive and um and and being willing to um change yourself and for the benefit of the organization or the people or the situation that you're in even though your first instinct would be to plunge um to instead um take a different tact because it's the right tact for that moment.
00:33:10
Speaker
Yeah, i I am going to 100% plagiarize you for the rest of my life. I love the imagery of walking up to the balcony. I just think it's such a beautiful imagery of what you have to do as a leader to work through difficult things.
00:33:28
Speaker
um And just because you're you don't want to stay in the balcony. Because you can't stay in the balcony. You're going to have to come back down. But as you're as you're working through it, being able to walk up those stairs and see the holistic view, i think is super powerful. I just i love it. i'm gonna i hope you don't mind if i if I use that for the rest of my life, because that is extremely powerful.
00:33:51
Speaker
and And it's not just looking down at today. It's also thinking what the implications are in the future. So um if you're not up there, you're not looking out. Yeah, I love that.
00:34:02
Speaker
the that The other thing that you shared, which is has been very important just for my own personal journey, is you can't just look at strategically what is the right direction to move in.
00:34:15
Speaker
or tactically based off of the facts, what are what are the right actions to take, you also have to take the lens in how does this impact people and how are people going to feel about it. and you and And in fact, the way that they react and the way that people are going to feel about it or think about it might actually influence the right action to take from a tactical or strategic perspective.
00:34:38
Speaker
ah So I love that you pulled out that it's important to look at both of those lenses because ah as as you shared, um yeah you spent some time looking at personality tests and and those different types of things. I've done that as well.
00:34:50
Speaker
Very early on in my career, I was all about what's the right logical thing. And then it was like, whatever happens after that, well, it's the right logical thing. So I actually don't care people think. doesn't everybody understand it?
00:35:02
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. So I i love that you pulled that out. Makes complete sense. And it is also the different constituencies as well. When you were talking about people, it's not just um the people that are doing. It's also the people that are receiving. It's the stakeholders on the outside, the stakeholders on the inside.
00:35:19
Speaker
um I think one of the things that I've always been blessed with is actually working for mutual institutions.
Benefits of Running a Mutual Bank
00:35:25
Speaker
And and the benefit of that means that ah my priorities can be our people, our customers um and our employees. So it just it allows you to be a little bit more more focused so yeah without having the shareholder be the the number one response.
00:35:46
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. it's a I've always loved the stakeholder theory of management rather than the shareholder theory of management. it is It is about the whole ecosystem, not just one person or one group of people in the ecosystem.
00:36:00
Speaker
And it is it is really cool with ah different ownership structures, how you might actually be able to meld some of those groups. Well, you get to identify values for the organization and follow those.
00:36:13
Speaker
um and and always benchmark back against those.
00:36:19
Speaker
Yeah, that's powerful. So I'd love to, so there's a lot to to to to learn from from your FDIC experience. I'd love to kind of get into your transition to where you are now within Reading, because I know there's just so much to be able to to dive into in your experiences in in leading Reading as well.
Recruitment to Reading Cooperative
00:36:40
Speaker
So After you were at the FDIC for a while, went through a tour of duty that sounded extremely difficult, but also extremely fruitful in your learnings, kind of what was what was next for you?
00:36:51
Speaker
um So I will back up and say the one thing that... that was beneficial as far as the FDIC is they had resources at that time. Financial institutions didn't, they actually were all, um, all struggling financially, um, during that crisis.
00:37:04
Speaker
Um, and so, um, you got all of the training, um, on, on anything that you could possibly know. So, um, so on top of, um, having, um, on the ground, such, um,
00:37:16
Speaker
So it's on the ground and on the job training. There's also specific training that was actually available to us. So um that was very rewarding. But when I was at the FDIC, one of the banks that I closed, the but liquid air in charge was Donald Hicks.
00:37:30
Speaker
And Don Hicks and I hit it off very well. He um He told me later on that he actually, when I was talking about your work ethic is seen by other people, he actually saw me working there and he actually told me that he said to himself, i'm going to watch her. I'm going to see where she goes.
00:37:45
Speaker
and And five years later, i was at Lawrence Savings Bank and he was the president at Reading Cooperative Bank and he picked up the phone and he called me and asked me to come and run his lending department.
00:37:57
Speaker
And so that brought me to to Reading and having somebody that obviously already respected me, knew the work that I was going to bring or the work ethic that I was going to bring. um He also then um opened up a lot of opportunities for me. He had asked me whether or not what where I wanted to go. And I told him I wanted his job.
00:38:16
Speaker
And whether it was because he was a father of a daughter who was in banking, um who knows why he actually decided to pour so much into me. But he actually really pay paved the road and created the opportunities for me.
00:38:28
Speaker
um And I went to the National School of Banking. I went to the Massachusetts School of Banking. I but got my MBA. um and And he just encouraged me and constantly mentored me and told me when I was being stupid and told me when I needed to straighten up and...
00:38:46
Speaker
who is like a banking father figure. How's that? And, and finding people that you actually, in fact, there's another person that Andy Calamari, who was the commissioner of banks in Massachusetts. And he was the CEO at the diff company.
00:39:03
Speaker
there are people that you actually watch and see and learn so much from, and they don't even know that they've been a mentor to you in their career. And then there are the other ones that are very direct, um, and, and pour into you.
00:39:14
Speaker
Um, so, but Don asked me what I wanted. I told him I wanted his job. And, um, he, at that point, we actually had, um, a board of old white men, um, who, um, sometimes not atypical for that time, not atypical, um, who sometimes would sleep at the table.
00:39:32
Speaker
Um, but, um, Don recognized that this would be a change for them. And he literally um wrote a memo to them when he was talking about succession, um talking about when he wanted to retire and um but and blatantly asking the board, would you be willing to have a woman as CEO? And would you be willing to have a woman under the age of 40 as CEO of the bank?
00:39:55
Speaker
It's so easy to forget the kind of entrenched biases and assumptions that have governed the business world in the last 20 years, let alone 50 years. The kind of openness and vision that Don Hicks exhibited by tapping Julie to be his successor was radical at the time, especially in banking.
00:40:14
Speaker
It's also one of the most important traits that a leader can have. You need to be looking for the best talent, the hungriest, most teachable people you can find, and call those people up to their full potential.
00:40:29
Speaker
I just see that as just permission to be direct as well. There are times yeah when you need to be direct and call somebody something out or um force somebody else to, I guess he didn't call it out, he just asked the question. So um it allowed someone to actually check themselves and and see whether or not they actually had any bias and then dismiss it. And then um it was never a problem again. yeah.
00:40:58
Speaker
Yeah. Man, Julie, there's so many great things about that whole story that I'm just so excited about.
Breaking Barriers as a CEO
00:41:04
Speaker
Like the...
00:41:07
Speaker
Be a Don, right? So, I mean, first, like, be that person that that that can find talent and be willing to help them. ah Be a Julie and be willing to, like, say, this is what I want. Even, you know, some people might be like, oh, you can't tell your boss that you want their job. That's scary, right? Or, ah you know, I have these big aspirations, but if I say it out loud, like,
00:41:31
Speaker
Can it really happen? You know, having that courage to kind of step out there, ah change management. I mean, for goodness sake, Don knew that it was going to create some issues. So he welcomed the conversation well before the decision needed to be made because then it allowed time and space for those people that needed to change to be able to have that opportunity. I mean, just so many great things. So thank you so much for sharing that story. Yeah.
00:41:55
Speaker
So I, I, I do want to share Don, um, passed away earlier this year. Um, and, um, And it wasn't just me. So learning from that. And so um my takeaway from what he did for me and even um I guess I'm eulogizing him right here, but um um in that moment, being able to say, wow, look at all the people he poured into and how much better the world is, because all of these Don Acolytes are out there that that he actually shared his values and vision with um are all now out there doing good things for other people. And let's make sure, let's try to be a Don.
00:42:37
Speaker
And and make sure that there are other folks who benefit because we have this opportunity and this power in this moment to actually help other people achieve their goals for their life.
00:42:51
Speaker
um And maybe those just become positive ripples in this world. Yeah, and absolutely. Can't say anything other to that than amen. I totally agree, and I love that.
00:43:02
Speaker
And it's perfectly great to eulogize wonderful people um and share with others their amazing stories. So, you broke through, i mean, two different ceilings, if you will, in the banking world.
00:43:18
Speaker
You were a young CEO and you were female. And both of those are very uncommon. yeah i think they've gotten more common over the years, but I think i so i think there's still a ah lot of work to be done on on on both of those.
00:43:31
Speaker
But you're you're driven, you're obviously super curious, you have worked so hard to get both on the job training as well as outside the job training. You now have the reins of Redding.
00:43:44
Speaker
Man, I'd love to hear some of the fun stories that you have of after you've taken those reins of ah learnings and and things that you tried. Maybe some things that worked, some things that didn't work, but things that have, again, helped to really define who you are as a leader. I'd love to hear some of those stories.
00:44:02
Speaker
So
Strategy and Innovation as CEO
00:44:03
Speaker
I will share with you. So the very first um moment that i became CEO, I had an executive committee of three board members and one gentleman, Dick Finlayson, really wanted me to have a contract, probably because I was young and in the seat and and and.
00:44:19
Speaker
and And they were very supportive of me very early on. um And I didn't want a contract. i actually told I don't want a contract because if I'm bored, I want to be able to leave. I don't want to get stuck because I was you know thinking about um that.
00:44:37
Speaker
what's next What's next? What's next? Exactly. and um And his response to me was, um you're in the CEO seat now. it's It's up to you. um If you're bored, it's your own fault.
00:44:48
Speaker
And so that... um Just that statement in and of itself, I think gave me permission, right? Yep. To do something different. And then it's then strategic planning comes in.
00:45:00
Speaker
What are you going to do? who are you and So um you have to start putting yourself out there to find out new things that are happening, what's happening. um ah The one thing I share with a lot of people is paying attention to what's happening um with young people.
00:45:17
Speaker
What are they doing now? So um community banks do very well with 50 year olds and 60 year olds and definitely 78 and 80. um What we don't do well with is that next generation.
00:45:30
Speaker
um And what's important for our relevancy prospectively is making sure that we have a next generation to serve. Otherwise, our money is going to just You glide out the door in through everybody's estate. So how do we maintain our relevancy?
00:45:45
Speaker
um And and how do you get yourself exposed? You're absolutely right. You mentioned earlier about the education. it's like, OK, I really don't know where to go next. So I need to go back to school. I need to go hear what is being taught.
00:45:57
Speaker
um And so the Harvard Extension School has great programs where um let's go and hear what they're talking about strategy and let's thinking about what's what's happening in the product space um and making sure that you're at places like Finnovate and at banking conferences.
00:46:14
Speaker
Not every banking conference is going to introduce new ideas, um but see what other bankers are actually doing out there. um So um I guess making sure that you're exposed to what is happening in the broader world and understanding what its implications are for us. One of the things...
00:46:31
Speaker
um We do here as we put the Wall Street Journal in every employee's hands so that they can actually make sure that they're reading about what's happening in today's world. And that's one of the points that I'll always tell our newest leaders is you need to be educated about what's happening in the world, not just what's happening in your but branch, in your office, in your department. You need to think about what's what's changing and what are the chances and opportunities for us improving things.
00:46:56
Speaker
um So I think that's, um I don't know if i um answered the question exactly how you expect it to me to, but it's really thinking constantly about what's changing and being willing to pivot and change um and adopt and address.
00:47:11
Speaker
um I think my um my team member get team members get exhausted because I always am coming up with new ideas um and and trying to keep things fresh. um But I always feel like I'm watching for the the next shooter drop, what's what's happening next. And maybe that's having been through multiple crises.
00:47:31
Speaker
and And you start to see um when excesses start to build and how do you make sure. So we're a mutual bank. I guess that's the other thing is we're a mutual bank. I can only build capital through earnings.
00:47:44
Speaker
And so um I know how much I can grow next year based on what my current capital is and what my earnings rate is. So that means I need to get more efficient. So I need to adopt new strategies, whether it's AI or um robotic process automation, things that are actually going to allow us to generate more revenue so that I can grow more.
00:48:05
Speaker
And yeah and so or look at opportunities with the merger, um with the mutual that's in the and next market over. um How are we going to actually maintain the relevancy of our organization? Because if you're not growing, then you're stagnating.
00:48:21
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. one One piece about the story of Redding that I would love to dive into, specifically based off of the audience that we build ah this or do this podcast for, um it's the blend between bankers and technologists,
Bridging Banking and Tech
00:48:37
Speaker
right? And...
00:48:38
Speaker
ah
00:48:40
Speaker
First off, I know you're one of the founding banks ah of Alloy Labs. um And then you also set up a ah ah specific...
00:48:53
Speaker
I think it's called, what is it? Is it the the the FinTech Hub in Massachusetts? it's ah The Massachusetts FinTech Hub, yes. Yeah, the Massachusetts FinTech Hub. So you have actively been doing things that bridge what I think is one of the gaps that the closer and closer we can get the bankers in the industry and the technologists in the industry working together.
00:49:14
Speaker
So I'd just love to hear a little bit, like, what drove you to do those types of things? And maybe what are one or two things that you've learned from stepping into that void in a significant way?
00:49:27
Speaker
So... um So our football team is the Patriots and they were great and they will be great yet again.
00:49:39
Speaker
um but um there was one year during the Super Bowl that there was an ad for SoFi. And that was um and I ended up applying for the loan during the intermission and getting a seventy thousand dollar loan at some crazy low rate um just on my phone.
00:49:58
Speaker
um And that was kind of an epiphany moment for me that there is no reason why the best customers in the world, in the United States, in Massachusetts, in writing Massachusetts need to come to me anymore.
00:50:10
Speaker
They can get it elsewhere and they can get it faster and better. So how are we going to be better as an organization? How are we going to be faster and more nimble? um And at the same time, my kids were in high school.
00:50:23
Speaker
And um they were not relating with their checking account. you um Two of them actually worked at the bank, but their relationship with their bank was not the same as I expected them to have it.
00:50:36
Speaker
um They didn't use our bill pay. um They let Discover um take money out of out of their checking account. So they actually, instead of pushing payments out, they were letting um everybody into their wallet.
00:50:49
Speaker
um They were using Venmo. So um just all of the things that they were doing had nothing to do with what Reading was offering.
00:50:59
Speaker
Think about that for just a moment. Your own children, employees of the bank you lead, using other services to manage their money. Julie could have gotten angry about these facts, letting it hurt her ego, but that's not what she did.
00:51:15
Speaker
She realized it was an invitation to grow and make Redding into a better bank that could survive the future. As you're about to hear, she took a big step that would allow her to help shape the future of banking and technology rather than watching from the sidelines.
00:51:34
Speaker
Jason Henricks was actually talking about that, that the the the divide between um what's happening in the financial tech space and what's happening in our banks is too wide. And if banks aren't going to ah banks are not going to be relevant if they don't start embracing technology.
00:51:50
Speaker
And he had identified banks that had an open mind towards more innovation and brought a group of 20 of us together in Chicago. um to have a conversation about creating this cooperative of banks so that we can innovate together. And that could have could be innovating by creating product, um or it could be innovating by using, ah but or it could be a partnership, um but driving down the price of that partnership by having the collective number of customers for our members, um or um just by being thought leaders and sharing our knowledge um with each other by creating that trusted circle of financial institutions. And so you're not going it alone.
00:52:32
Speaker
um and And also where we also do have a division that actually does investments in FINDEX as well, which allows us to be right there parallel and seeing what's actually happening um even more broadly. So that's that Alloy Labs connection, but also kind of the genesis of what I was seeing and why um I felt it was imperative that we start doing things.
00:52:55
Speaker
We partnered with, with, um your organization as well. I mean, you um when I think about what you and Jay have done, um you actually saw something that wasn't working in the banking space for a subset of customers and went out and built something for them.
00:53:10
Speaker
and and And that's made it easier. and those Those landlords existed a long time ago and they had a whole lot of paperwork and a whole lot of hard work and they were chasing bounce checks, et cetera. and And so you actually took the freak friction out of those relationships.
00:53:28
Speaker
And so that's that's what I learned through that process. um and And then being able to, and then I think I mentioned going back um and some of the education that I had gotten, just thinking about innovation differently and um identifying friction points for our customers and trying to solve for those so that we make sure that we're relevant in the future.
00:53:53
Speaker
Yeah, no, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing those stories. And also, thank you so much just for how much you do in the industry. ah We haven't had a chance to really talk about it too much. But not only have you been doing significant outreach and work ah between bridging the gap between...
00:54:11
Speaker
fintech companies and and banks, but you've also been very, very active in the community of banks themselves through the ABA and other organizations. So it's just awesome to be able to see the see all that you can do. and I wish that we could continue to just pick your brain and hear hear more of your stories because there's so much to so much to be learned.
00:54:30
Speaker
um But I did want to go ahead and move to kind of the the last two questions that we always like to to ask ah our our our guests here. ah So the first one, if you had a book to recommend that was not a business book, what would you recommend?
00:54:47
Speaker
um So I ah so ah I'm going to go two ways. So I um as far as fiction is concerned, I do find um I've been a reader since I was little. And the one um place where I shut off is when I go to the beach um and I read a good book.
00:55:02
Speaker
And I do love the author Daniel Silva. um And he has a whole series of books. um So that's that's one. And then the other, um i love the book Walden. and and That's apropos for where you live.
00:55:16
Speaker
It is. It absolutely is. But it also, um ah it's almost like the Bible, right? It's like if you actually um need to get some inspiration, you need to separate and and and clean out your head.
00:55:29
Speaker
um What do you read? um just Just something that actually just centers you. so Yeah, I love that. I was so excited. ah You had mentioned that I worked with Jay bring together this organization, and we did so actually moved to Boston, and we lived very close to to Walton Pond.
Personal Inspirations and Reflections
00:55:49
Speaker
And it was ah it was very, very cool to be able to to see it and be a part of it, but also have that writing that goes with it as well, which is very, very, very cool.
00:56:00
Speaker
All right. And then the last question. So from your perspective, is a leader born or is a leader made?
00:56:11
Speaker
I think there are innate qualities in gifts that we all have, um but I believe a leader is made. um through those influences on their life, those um pivots that they may have to take or the harder roads that they may have taken um that will actually turn not innate abilities into great leaders.
00:56:35
Speaker
Yeah. So everyone's given gifts, but it's what you do with them and whether you sharpen them and and use them and grow them to to step into that role. No.
00:56:47
Speaker
really I think I just said both, right? Yeah. ah well i yeah um Well, I mean, Julie, i can't be more grateful for your time today. And i I just learned so much from this conversation and I loved every minute minute of it. So thank you so much for joining.
00:57:06
Speaker
It was a pleasure being here with you guys. Thank you.
00:57:12
Speaker
The musician, entrepreneur, and philanthropist Dolly Parton once said, if your actions create a legacy that inspires others to dream more, learn more, do more, and become more, then you are an excellent leader.
00:57:28
Speaker
Julie Thurlow's journey as a leader embodies every bit of the spirit Dolly is talking about. Julie has broken through multiple glass ceilings, building an organization that expands opportunity and access to resources for everyone.
00:57:43
Speaker
But her vision for Reading Cooperative Bank wouldn't be possible if she was trying to be the hero with all the answers. Instead, she's determined to stay humble, teachable, and dedicated to the values that have served her bank for nearly 150 years.
00:57:59
Speaker
She's adept at viewing life from a higher perspective, the balcony, if you will. and giving others the chance to lead and use their unique gifts. She might be the CEO, but she doesn't need to be the star.
00:58:11
Speaker
That could be a difficult lesson for young leaders to learn, especially because of the hard work and sacrifices that earn you the promotion to leader her in the first place. In a sense, the whole point of stepping into the power of leadership is to give that power away to others and help them succeed.
00:58:28
Speaker
It's another virtuous cycle if you're humble enough to embrace it. It's such a privilege that Julie Thurlow took this time to share her story with us. And I love that we can do the same with you, our audience.
00:58:43
Speaker
As always, thanks for listening. You'll find the links to Julie's book recommendations in the show notes. You've been listening to Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief, a podcast produced and distributed by ZSuite Technologies Incorporated, all rights reserved.
00:58:58
Speaker
I'm your host, Nathan Baumeister, the co-founder of ZSuite Tech. This show is co-produced, written, and edited by Zach Garver. Sound engineering was done by Nathan Butler at Nimblewit Productions.
00:59:09
Speaker
If you enjoyed the episode, please take a moment to leave us a review or share the episode. This helps other people to find our show. You can also listen on all major podcast platforms, including Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, and Spotify.