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Carson Lappetito – Innovating from first principles, becoming a parent, and the difference between humility and ignorance | Episode 20
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Welcome to episode twenty of Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief! Joining me today is Carson Lappetito, President of Sunwest Bank.
On this show, I’m unpacking the stories, decisions, and influences that make people successful leaders.
As a preschool, Carson was tasked with managing the cash register of the pretend grocery store because he fully understood how to transact and make change. This might have foreshadowed his career as a successful investor, banker, technologist, and entrepreneur. But it was Carson’s father and grandfather trained him for those roles.
My name is Nathan Baumeister; I am the Co-founder and CEO of ZSuite Tech and the host of this podcast.
Many people become successful investors by studying the stock market and trading in the abstract. Carson has an unusual command of the underlying fundamentals that cause businesses to grow or fail. This has allowed him to trade securities on a major scale, invest in tech startups, and become a leader in the day-to-day operations of a commercial bank like Sunwest.
Although one of his first jobs out of college was helping restructure balance sheets in the wake of the 2007/2008 financial crisis, Carson biggest leadership transformation didn’t happen until he became a parent many years later.
His ability to build successful teams and partnerships lies in his understanding of how to tap into the motivations of each person and help them feel fulfilled.
As something of a “most interesting man in banking” Carson Lappetito brings wit, humor, and an incredibly sharp understanding of business, banking, technology. His perspective on the industry is rare and borders on clairvoyant.
Resources:
Carson’s recommendations:
Connect:
Recommended
Transcript
Entrepreneurial Success and Technological Transformation
00:00:00
Speaker
One thing I've found about every amazing entrepreneur is that they built, I should say entrepreneur, amazing company, is that it was built at the cross section of when transformational technology is happening, transformation is happening, whether it's technology as we think about today, whether it's technology like the railroads, technology like flight, whatever may be, when you have a tech and very significant technological transformation in an industry, and there is somebody who has spent so much time in that industry that they can see it happening, they understand what the vision looks like after.
00:00:39
Speaker
And I have this fundamental belief that that's happening in banking right now.
Introduction to the Podcast and Episode 20
00:00:46
Speaker
Hi, my name is Nathan Baumeister, and you're listening to Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief, a podcast where executives from the world of finance and technology share the story of how they got where they are and the decisions that made them who they are.
00:01:00
Speaker
I'm looking for hidden moments of truth and sacrifice, wisdom and folly, and what it's like to navigate the treacherous waters at the helm of a growing company. I want to do all that so that together we can learn from their journey and use that insight personally and professionally.
00:01:17
Speaker
In episode 20, my guest is Carson Lapetito, president of SunWest Bank, a privately held commercial bank serving entrepreneurs and businesses across the Western United States.
00:01:28
Speaker
Hindsight may be 20-20, but that doesn't mean Carson's preschool aptitude with managing a pretend grocery store foreshadowed his career as a successful investor, banker, technologist, and entrepreneur.
00:01:41
Speaker
Carson's father and grandfather trained him for those roles.
Carson Lapetito's Unique Perspective and Career Insights
00:01:45
Speaker
But what set Carson apart from his peers even farther was his desire to develop a deep understanding for the world around him, to work from first principles, and to capitalize on opportunities that others overlooked.
00:02:00
Speaker
Many people become successful investors by studying the stock market and trading in the abstract. Carson has an unusual command of the underlying fundamentals that cause businesses to grow or fail.
00:02:12
Speaker
This has allowed him to trade securities on a major scale, invest in tech startups, and become a leader in the day-to-day operations of a commercial bank like SunWest. There's so much more to Carson Lapetito than meets the eye, or than we were able to cover in this interview, which is why I'm so glad that he agreed to appear as the guest for episode 20 of Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief, because an hour is a good start.
00:02:37
Speaker
Carson may not be able to predict the future, but if you listen closely, you might just gain a better understanding of what's happening in the banking industry, going backwards and forwards.
00:02:54
Speaker
All right. Well, Carson, i have been waiting anxiously to have you on Builder, Banker, Hacker Chief. I'm so excited that the time has come and that we're recording this so that everyone can hear our conversation so that we can all learn from you. right Well, I'm excited to be here. It's ah been friends for a long time and it's fantastic to be asked to be on the podcast. So I'm glad it worked out and look forward to talking about banking and technology and all the other places this conversation weaves there.
00:03:22
Speaker
Absolutely. Well, I have to say, for anyone that's listening, when I think about the most and interesting man in the world, I think most of you know a lot of those advertising and stuff like that. Carson kind of fills that gap for me in the banking world.
00:03:36
Speaker
And so i just...
Formative Experiences and Early Career in Investing
00:03:39
Speaker
I always just love diving into kind of the origin story, right? So, growing up, like, what were what were the things that happened kind of in those early ages to create such a curious individual that has so many interests?
00:03:54
Speaker
i I don't really know ah a conglomeration of different things, but I can tell you a few fun stories. um I'd love to hear them. Numbers always made sense to me. And we had this like fake grocery store aisle in preschool.
00:04:08
Speaker
And for whatever reason, I got to be the one kid who got to operate the cash register instead of the teachers because I could actually do the math and make change and do all those things that nobody else can do it in preschool.
00:04:19
Speaker
So that was a precursor that I'd probably end up as a banker, but I never thought I'd actually end up running a bank um until much, much later later in life. ah But another fun anecdote, my grandfather was an investor, and so he taught me how to invest in equities. And ah one time I you know i had got a job at 14. First job was bagging groceries at a local grocery store because i always i've been I've worked since i can I walked down to get the work permit in order to go to work.
00:04:49
Speaker
ah Well, I mean, after the pre-K story, obviously working in a grocery store was the only first job you could have. Exactly. I'd been training for my entire childhood.
00:05:01
Speaker
um and But I ended up, you know, I was bagging groceries, then worked to cashier, did all those different things. and But there was one day when I i end up i trade started trading stocks on my own.
00:05:13
Speaker
And I made more money in a week in trading Bank of America than I did entire... week working at the grocery store. And, and then I realized, wow, my brain can be used to make money instead of my physical labor. And, and that was sort of like an aha moment at 14 years old. And so through my whole teenage years, I was, you know, trading stocks and, you know, created these value screens. And, you know, my grandfather taught me a lot and then just, you know, you learn by making mistakes, right? Lost a lot of money on a bad trade and made a lot of money on another trade. And, and, um,
00:05:43
Speaker
So over time, you know, just always liked investing. And and and so that was a big part of my career, which I'm sure we'll talk about a little bit later. um And then numbers and and and the tech. My... um you know My dad was in the technology world in the 80s and data technology. And and so you know I used to spend all sorts of time going out to dinner with him. like That's how we connected. We'd go out to dinner and talk about business and talk about problems and talk about technology and all these different items. And so you know just from a young age, it was just sort of how my brain got wired. And then you know growing up in the in the era that we grew up,
00:06:21
Speaker
um yeah you your friends started technology companies in their 20s, like I would help them advise them, I'd invest in them, I do all these different things, um even though I was in financial services and banking.
00:06:34
Speaker
And then, you know, it all comes full circle later in life, which we'll get into. But yeah that's a little bit of the, of the dabbling over the, you know, first 20 years of my life before I actually started doing things professionally.
00:06:45
Speaker
I think um exposure is something that people discount or maybe don't place enough value in. ah Being exposed to investing at such such a young age, being exposed to um making decisions from a business perspective, being exposed to technology helped you to kind of get a head start in that case ah of two worlds that have now influenced your entire career since then.
00:07:12
Speaker
ah I wonder if you think about that, what what are some ways to be able to help those of us listening to do that for like our kids or the people that we work with to create the level of interest or the curiosity to make sure that exposure kind of goes from just like seeing it or hearing it to actually then being able to do it, learning it and loving it? you know's what So i'm I'm a parent of young kids, four and And one of the things that's been fascinating is about ah being a parent is if you remove yourself from your world and you stick yourself in their world,
00:07:48
Speaker
and you look at the world through their eyes instead of yours, all of a sudden you see the world in a different way. And I think too often we as parents have this like preset destiny that we want our children to achieve or ah preset path of what we think that they should be doing.
00:08:03
Speaker
When you know in a lot of ways, if you sit down and you see what they're actually interested in and and see what they are attracted to and then reinforce that, ah Because if you're not reinforcing what they're innately driven to do, and then you're sort of putting round peg in a square hole. and and you know, my son, for instance, I mean, the kid, i I tried to tell him to not put things in the electrical side, like not plug things into the wall, right? Because it's dangerous.
00:08:32
Speaker
I can't stop it. It's the most interesting thing. I call him Edison as a joke um because he just likes plugging lights in, turning them on, turning them off, you know anything that's basically mechanical. And he's two.
00:08:43
Speaker
um And he shocked himself once and and he was like, wow, i now understand what electricity electricity electricity is. I don't want ever that happened again. so And and you know to this day, since it's been over a year, he's never shocked himself again. So he's figured the whole thing out.
00:08:57
Speaker
And I joke, I mean, I think he's going to be an electrical engineer, right? So it's just, he you know these kids, they you have to figure out what their natural inclinations are. And I think when you do that, then you can surround them with all of these different items that that can expand there their knowledge set.
00:09:13
Speaker
um Yeah, i I love that. you Give a broad base of exposure. Don't have a preconceived notion of what it is that they're going to be interested in But through that exposure, you're able to find what do they naturally gravitate towards, what's interesting to them and help ah encourage that.
00:09:34
Speaker
So I'm curious, kind of as you were as as you were growing up and stuff like that, were there any things that you were exposed to that in the end you're like, yeah, that's definitely not for me? Yeah.
00:09:43
Speaker
yeah Like mowing the lawn.
00:09:46
Speaker
You know, it's an interesting thing. I...
00:09:50
Speaker
i i ah
00:09:53
Speaker
It was one of these things where like I learned very quickly, there are things that are scalable in life and there's things that are not scalable in life.
Carson's Approach to Scalable Tasks and Innovation
00:09:59
Speaker
And anything that's not scalable, I just didn't have that much interest in. um Because at the end of the day, it's like a finite you know thing you're going to do and you're goingnna you're you're going to you know optimize that. And how do you optimize that? Okay, you can only put so many hours in doing something in a certain way and then it just becomes...
00:10:17
Speaker
rote, if you will. So I think if there's, to answer your question more succinctly than that, it's like anything that was rote or boring, I just got very sick of very quickly. And then I would have to find some new adventure.
00:10:28
Speaker
And candidly, that's translated my whole life. I mean, it's my greatest ah greatest strength and my greatest weakness in business I... i I see opportunities and to see the ability to build interesting things that other people don't see.
00:10:42
Speaker
At the same time, once it becomes the machine that needs to be run, it's very boring for me, right? And I have to find someone else to do that. um And I've learned that skill and I've created an ecosystem to to to not have that be the weakness around it, but it's you know it's I'm always onto the next thing, which is which is a strength and a weakness.
00:10:59
Speaker
Well, in the end, it's just know it about yourself, right? Like whether it's a strength or weakness doesn't matter. it's just know it about yourself and make sure to compensate for it appropriately. Absolutely. um As you kind of move from dabbling with ah investing, finding out that you can make a heck of whole lot more money using your brain instead of your brain,
00:11:22
Speaker
your body, if you will, ah your manual effort. um On the technology side, did you dabble in that as well? I know you talked a little bit about it and you understood that world, but were were you like a hands-on keyboard computer guy? I started coding when I was a teenager. um Not anything really professionally trained because like at that point,
00:11:42
Speaker
in art, in life, that like you didn't go to class and learn these things when we were growing up. It was much later. So I learned out of code, um loved it. it was It was great it created like a baseline of architectural understanding, a software architectural understanding that's been underpinning of a lot of things I've done over my career.
00:11:59
Speaker
um and you know built just built websites. like One of my favorite websites I built was something called Find a Foursome, which was I was a golfer in teenage years. And one of the things that um like when you were a member of a club, you would talk to the pro and you'd say, hey, I'm going to golf alone. Can you find three people to come and golf with me? And And i was like, well, that needs to, I didn't have a club membership. I needed to, you know, that was my grandfather had one. He taught me how to golf, but i I wasn't a member of club. I played at public courses. So i was like I need to find a way to play with people at public courses. So I created a website called find a force. So I this predates like anything that was social media, you know, and anything that did that by, by a decade. um So I never went anywhere, but it was, you know, fun, fun exercise. And
00:12:43
Speaker
you know, built some other things this when, you know, your labor is just your time, ability kind like a platform that did social seating on airplanes. So the concept of, know, you have this airplane layout, and how do you do an algorithmic equation in order to um seat people where, you know, if it's a night flight, see people that want to sleep next to people who want to sleep instead of people who want to work all night so that you you create this dynamically, oh, I want to be quiet at work. I don't want to sit next to someone who's going to talk my ear off next to me.
00:13:12
Speaker
You know, and how do you how do you create that preference profile? So then when you're seating people, you you do that versus just like picking an aisle, you know? Yeah. so yeah Silly projects like that, but yeah. There's an amount of beauty in this idea that dive into something, learn it from its foundations, and then after that is when you can unlock a lot of creativity and innovation.
00:13:39
Speaker
ah right so I'm guessing you've kind of seen that in your life. right like ah Would you have been able to solve problems that you're now solving today had you not first dove in and built that website, built the Find the Foursome, built this idea of the airline seating?
00:13:58
Speaker
Because you understood those first principles that were underlying. Yeah, 100%. I don't think I would have been able to. And I think that... um you know this this gen x generation of old the older millennials like the very old millennials and then the genn gen gen xers there's that group of people that right now is in their late 30s to late 40s that you know grew up in an analog world and had to sort of adapt to technology in real time and they all possess this unique i i've found in founders and and people who work at the bank and and just people i've seen the ecosystem they all possess this unique
00:14:37
Speaker
characteristic and experience sense that really lets them see the world in a different way. and That doesn't mean that you have to spend years studying an issue before you can invent a new way of solving it.
00:14:48
Speaker
Or that you have to be born in a certain era to have a chance of success. The world is filled with technologies and so-called innovations that promise to change everything forever. Most of them fizzle out.
00:15:01
Speaker
On the other hand, when you gain an understanding of the fundamental forces in an industry or particular discipline, you can discern the origin and trajectory of lasting transformation.
00:15:13
Speaker
There's a pattern to it. As they say, history may not repeat itself, but it definitely rhymes.
00:15:24
Speaker
you look at like all of these very successful founders um who have built these incredible technology companies, like a vast majority of them sit in that age demographic. I mean, all you go to Zuckerberg and Dorsey all the way down to you know folks like you. i mean yeah It's ah it's a really it a really unique, repetitive situation that I've seen.
00:15:45
Speaker
Yeah, it is it is really interesting as you as we dive into the implications of more powerful technology, especially as you go into machine learning and ai when you don't necessarily have to dive in and get your hands dirty to understand things, to get answers, what are we missing? What are we going to lose because of that?
00:16:06
Speaker
Because people don't have that underlying understanding of how that answer was gotten to. Look, I i think it's a huge issue that we need to societally solve um because I just sit there and I go, it's the purpose it's the example of...
00:16:20
Speaker
How many people do you know if you stuck them out in the wilderness, can they tie a knot? Can they start a fire? right Do they know how to do the functional survival skills that exist when we get outside of our ecosystem? I think that's the greatest application of you know the people today who live in urban environments that don't have to deal with any of these things, like don't know how to grow a plant. right Don't know how to even cut up meat. like If you cut a chunk of meat, how do i how do I dissect it into what I can actually eat? Most people don't understand any of those skills. And so if you take that you know where we've productized everything and then you take that to the AI world, you know it it is concerning because people don't understand
00:17:00
Speaker
vast majority of people don't understand the first principles of AI. They don't understand the mathematical equations that go into it. They don't understand the algebra and the multivariable calc that is driving all these equations that are driving the decisions making.
00:17:10
Speaker
and then they're just And now we're just layering things on top of it top of if off of it. and and the And the smart people aren't really spending any time understanding it because it's become commoditized. That math has become commoditized in this whole...
00:17:24
Speaker
um AI revolution. and so as a result, okay, so the same way people don't understand how networking works you know anymore. they've just they've just They just take it for granted. And and i think, the the you know not that we're not going on this AI weave, but maybe we should, I i think the The concerning thing is when you truly build innovation and efficient innovation, you have to challenge first principles of this.
00:17:53
Speaker
And right now what I see all the smart brains doing is changing challenging the second principle, third principle, fourth principle. And I think like this deep seek, um, dynamic really, you know, drove people, okay, challenge the principle of how, what efficient computing looks like in sort of this AI world.
00:18:09
Speaker
And I do think a lot of people have to like go back and really think about how are we architecting it? Why are we architecting that way? And the vast majority of solutions aren't large language models like you're experiencing with ChatGPT. They're, you know, workflow dynamics and interagent, agent communication, all these different, you know, issues that, that may or may not sit on the rails that we have today.
00:18:29
Speaker
you know Talking about artificial intelligence, maybe focusing a little bit on continuing to build out your own intelligence, I always like to to ask leaders in our space, kind of what role has formal education had?
00:18:43
Speaker
in your process of becoming the leader that you are. So you you were developing websites, you were you were trading, ah you're already like diving into all this stuff. Did you still opt to go with that traditional view of education and and go get your undergrad and all those types of yeah So I went to Bates College in Maine, and it was a amazing experience, incredible school.
00:19:08
Speaker
really one of these things where i was ah I went to school wanting to be a a lawyer. I went to school, believe it or not, with all the background, I wanted to be a lawyer. I don't quite understand when I look back now, ah but I it was a constitutional law focus, a poli-sci major.
00:19:26
Speaker
And after the first year, I said, well, you know i don't want to do I don't want to be a lawyer. and And so came back and um and started my economics major. So I ended up doing a double major, poli-sci economics, started my economics major in sophomore year.
00:19:42
Speaker
And when you're a double major at a school like Bates, and I was also a minor in Mandarin Chinese, I when i When you do that, I only had three electives for my whole four years at college.
00:19:54
Speaker
um So everything was basically a required class. But the economics, I mean, one of the things I wish more schools did was have an economics program instead of a finance program. Because the economics program teaches you how to think about big problems. It teaches you econometric math. I mean, you know, it's like that's multivariable calculus, right? So you learn it in the context of,
00:20:17
Speaker
of of all of the variables you can't control in economics and how to build models around that and how theses either are confirmed or or or refuted. like I remember I wrote a paper on you know being this naive college kid. I'm like, oh, well, the Olympics and the World Cup should have a positive impact on you know economic growth. and i I wrote this paper on it and and I ran this economic equation actually as a negative impact on growth.
00:20:42
Speaker
Which, like, now I look back, I'm like, yeah, they build all these buildings for five years, they have all these people come and experience it for, for you know, two months, and then and then nothing happens after. yeah Of course you're going to negative economic growth.
00:20:56
Speaker
So, you know, going through that traditional experience of, like, testing things and learning how to think and and testing a hypothesis and and following it through, that was a really, you really worthwhile for me educationally experience.
00:21:09
Speaker
And, uh, and in that, right, you get to, you know, in that school of thinking, you you did get to a lot, do a lot of math. Uh, you got to do a lot of modeling. You got to and a lot of economic analysis and, you know, and that all translates to things I do today. The things I was interested in then, it's just sort of learning it on a different, different curve, if you will.
00:21:33
Speaker
Yeah. As you think about that time, are there any specific stories or professors that you think had an outsized impact on you? Yeah. It's interesting. I'm also sort of a conservationist. I love nature. One of my economic professors was on environmental economics.
00:21:50
Speaker
and uh you know the tragedy of commons and you know how you how you deal with incentives around um resources and that was you know and and that was really really fascinating um and she you know she also did quite a bit in sort of developing countries and You know, um I do a lot of, you know, we have a correspondent banking business in in Latin America and South America at SunWest. i also do, you know, quite a bit of international investing, um you know, Costa Rica and other places in the South America. And so like that also seeded this whole thing where, i you know, i I did do a fair amount it internationally today as well.
Applying Economics and Modeling in Banking
00:22:26
Speaker
um and you know interest, understanding the issues in the countries and how we help countries you know develop and develop responsibly instead of develop the way that you know textbook Chicago boys stuff out of out of UChicago. And so so all those like theories were really, really interesting. and um And then you know I had this um had incredible like and econometrics professor ah who was one of the most difficult classes i probably ever took in my life. But you know when you you start to understand econometrics and the modeling, you you then really understand how to start predicting markets. And and it's it's twofold.
00:23:07
Speaker
you you understand how backward looking um most ah con of economic projections are and how and then went and then i didn't realize this until I was you know professionally in the public markets, but and then all the public markets are forward looking. And so you know the greatest traders in the world are for the folks that can figure out how to merge those two things.
00:23:31
Speaker
and And one of these you know, in one of these experiences I've had, especially going from, you know, running ah money in the public markets like at a hedge fund you know at hedge fund scale to then running a commercial bank um is you realize like how everything in banking is looking to the rear view mirror.
00:23:52
Speaker
And no one is looking out the windshield to figure out what is coming next and how do I position for it and how do I manage for it? mean and And so you know all of those things have sort of contributed to just you know trying to build a much different bank and in SunWest.
00:24:10
Speaker
So you graduate, you've learned how to model, you understand economics, you figured out that the the Olympic Games probably isn't a great investment for a country. It's now time to like actually step into the professional world. Even though you've had years of already trading, you've had years of ah programming and stuff like that, where did you decide to start your career? i ended up So I ended up, like the start around financial services and banking, I ended up going to work for Darling Consulting Group.
00:24:39
Speaker
which is an incredible company in Newburyport, Mass. It's about 30 minutes from where I grew up. And you know it was through a mutual... was a friend mutual friend of my dad's, the one the owner of the business.
00:24:51
Speaker
um And so when I was figuring out what to do, i ended up going over there and meeting with the the team there. And it was... It fascinating. So they do you know asset liability, consulting do consulting for banks, specializing in asset liability, but they do risk management, investing, all these other areas. And I didn't really appreciate at the time because I think when you go to school, you're just sort of trying to figure out you know a lot of people go to New York and they try to do the investment banking rat race dynamic. And you know at the end of the day, ah you know I've always thought that now in hindsight, it's like, okay, the best thing you can is just learn as much as you possibly can in the first four years after school and then figure out what you want to do with it. So ended up going to work for Darling Consulting Group and i didn't like even appreciate it at the time.
00:25:31
Speaker
But the amount of information I learned around banking and financial markets from that team was amazing. and George Darling and Matt Penizac, who if bankers don't know them, you should know them. they there you know George you know is no longer with us, but but Matt runs a DCG and Darling Consulting Group today.
00:25:51
Speaker
and It's just an incredible firm for asset liability management. and As a young 20-year-old, I got the exposure to be in all of these bank board meetings, asset liability meetings.
00:26:03
Speaker
i mean When we were I mean, when Morgan Stanley had to set up a bank in the great financial vanil crisis, Darling got hired to build their entire asset liability management program. um And so, you know, you sit there and you're like, you know, the the depth of expertise to be able to to do that. and And so they just, the that all was downloaded in my brain.
00:26:27
Speaker
Well, talk about learning on the job. Most bankers go their entire career without getting an opportunity like that. Carson got to watch the 2007-2008 financial system get sewed back together after it fell apart.
00:26:41
Speaker
It wasn't just a matter of being in the right place at the right time either. either He already had a desire and determination to learn as much as he could as fast as he could after college. Whether or not Carson got lucky, well, it's clear that he leaned into the opportunity in front of him, and those lessons are still paying off for him today.
00:27:02
Speaker
in that process at Darlene, this goes to like the data analytics side, I realized how much data they had. And and what we we started actually building it. Instead of just delivering mass liability manager, we built a data analytics platform to enable banks to see their data in a comprehensive way, whether it is loan generation, loan loan spreads, movement in portfolio, you know month over month over month.
00:27:28
Speaker
And it was all with data they were already giving us. But these were data analytics. The core wasn't even providing them at that time, right? They didn't have, maybe you had a banker's dashboard at the time, but you didn't have any sort of technology doing this. And so we just built it in-house and delivered it back to our clients, you know, this free version and ah and a for sale version. and And that was one of my like forays into building, you know, financial technology ah inside of, inside of Darling. And, and that was, um,
00:27:53
Speaker
you know, that was just one way, like I've been an entrepreneur, sort of an entrepreneur, entrepreneur my whole career. And, and that, that was, I didn't realize that would sort of be so much of a part of my path, but, but it did evolve into lots of interesting things.
00:28:07
Speaker
So of all the places that you could have chosen to focus on, Banking is where you kind of stepped into. I'm curious, did you fall into it or was it purposeful?
00:28:18
Speaker
Fell into it. I mean, i was always I wanted to be in something in numbers and you know I wasn't entirely sure what what to do career. with my career and um there's lots of chaos going in in 06 and 07. So it just worked.
00:28:37
Speaker
And and you know sometimes I've learned in life, like if you want to tell if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plan. You never know where you'll actually end up, that's for Yeah. And one door opens into another door opens into another door. And and it was just ah it was a it was very serendipitous, but it but it worked out great and set me on a path that I um I didn't expect, but it but but the outcome was was ah has been a lot of fun.
00:29:04
Speaker
As you think about your times and in Darling, is there any specific stories or events that kind of stand out to you? I i just i would just say that like holistically, it was such an interesting time because you he sat there as a consultant in banking at the time, and you had clients that were failing.
00:29:19
Speaker
You had clients that were buying banks that were failing. You had clients that were just figuring out how to survive. um you know you you just had this entire foray of chaos going on basically. and and You sat there and you're like, well, you get as a consultant, you get paid a fee. you know so It's not like umm I own a bank and I'm taking bad loans or this or that. i'm you know I'm just advising people and I'm advising all sorts. and so it Once again, at the time, I didn't appreciate how much vantage point it would give me you know as I went forward and started buying failed banks and doing all these different things.
00:29:53
Speaker
but um But yeah, it was ah it was it was interesting. and And I think, um you know, if I were to fair to say the, one of the big takeaways I had there was just the value of data and how much data people have that they don't realize the value of it.
00:30:16
Speaker
And i I think that that's so pertinent today in the AI world. Like the only thing that's not commodity, not going to be commodity in AI is data. is the thing that feeds it, right? Well, that's awesome.
00:30:28
Speaker
So you were able to dive deep into the inner workings of of banks, their financial performance, understanding the public markets, ah understanding mergers and acquisitions, banks that were failing, banks that were succeeding. So what was next after you kind of got all of those lessons? What was that next step that you took in your and your journey towards leadership and running a bank? Well, the the realization that I had was that you know the the opportunity was not being a consultant for all these banks. And this was just me personally, like in my risk appetite and everything. the
00:31:02
Speaker
The opportunity was not being a consultant for these banks. The opportunity was rolling up banks during this generational crisis that unfolded. And at the time,
00:31:13
Speaker
at the time ah You didn't have big private equity firms in in this in the in the banking roll-up space. That didn't happen until the teens. um And so there were only a handful of specialty firms that had approval to buy and roll-up banks. And so...
00:31:33
Speaker
you know There were there's there's but about five in the country at the time, and you know I i i made a did did what you do on on sales. right I put the list together. I wrote letters. I sent letters. I made phone calls. um And you know fortunately, i ended up ah you know I ended up meeting eric Eric's Huvdi and the Huvdi Group. and Well, shouldn't say Huvdi Group because that's the investment bank, but Huvdi Private Equity and Huvdi Capital, which were the you know merchant banking and investment arms of ah of the platform.
00:32:04
Speaker
and um and they actually had a number of of a number of their banks were darling clients so so i also knew them already through that channel so um i ended up uh hitting off with them and went to went to go work in the hubby private equity platform and the hubby capital platform so the hubby capital platform was a long short hedge fund um in in financial services and uh And then the private equity fund owned you know and ah owned or had um stakes in banks.
00:32:34
Speaker
And then we did a number of roll-ups. So I went in to do M&A and strategic consulting for the banks and then managed a portfolio of the bank positions in the in the hedge fund business.
00:32:50
Speaker
Yeah. I'd love to take a little bit of opportunity to both hear some stories, but also hear some thoughts on um risk management in the biggest investment any of us make, which is in ourselves.
Calculated Risks and Entrepreneurial Ventures
00:33:03
Speaker
So, had a good gig going on I'm sure you're super successful over at Darling. Like, no, I'm going to i'm gonna go take a leap into doing something else. I have this thesis that I've created. I'm willing to take on risk.
00:33:16
Speaker
And you actually are going to take on that risk. So that's that first piece, like jump it off the the cliff, if you will. Like, how do you how do you get there? How do you think about it? But then the other piece of the cliff is most of the time you can't do it alone.
00:33:30
Speaker
So not only did you jump off the cliff, you're like, and I'm going to do it with this group, these people that maybe I don't know as well, and I'm going to kind of tie my fates to them.
00:33:42
Speaker
I would just love to hear some of both the thoughts and stories about managing that and thinking through that and what you've learned. So ah piece of advice I give, I'll go in a little bit of a weave here, but i am one thing i I learned looking back at my career is that At two years, you think you know everything, but you really just know service level.
00:34:08
Speaker
And then after, you know and it's really at four years that you've been able to go down deep enough under the surface to really sort of know what you're doing and be able to make educated decisions and you know add value in that you know in the general you know in the general market, if you will.
00:34:23
Speaker
you know So I think when I made that move, it was after four years. ah and And so that's advice I give to a lot of people. younger folks is you know, be humble about what you actually know and like, and do you, uh, it's, cause really important to know what you don't know.
00:34:39
Speaker
Right. And I, you know, I think after four years of doing something, you really don't know what you don't know. and, and and candidly, you know, that helps you find your partners, um, and that helps you find, you know, fill the holes that you need around you to accomplish the position that you have.
00:34:52
Speaker
Um, and in addition to that, sort of like actually be able to calibrate the risk you're taking. Um, and I think, you know, that's a, uh, I think it's an important thing for founders and ah because, you know, so, you know, putting my BankTech Ventures hat on, which we, you know, I haven't talked about, but, you know, two, three years ago, i started a venture capital fund for banks called BankTech Ventures. And Nathan, you guys are an amazing portfolio company of ours. And, and, uh,
00:35:18
Speaker
and And so we i got you know we got five partners together, all influential people in banking, um to to build this fund and to to to basically find and invest in technology companies just for banks.
00:35:31
Speaker
and And it's interesting in that and that span, you meet so many founders, like thousands of founders. and And one of the things you find with young founders is is is sometimes they do not understand the space they're going into or they see an opportunity that, you know, isn't as big as it it and they think it actually is or they haven't thought through all the competition that can come into the space. And so, you know,
00:35:55
Speaker
it's It's great to be naive sometimes because you you solve problems in ways that other people wouldn't solve. But at the same time, naivete can run you over. um And so you know it's i think that four-year period was great for me because it it it gave me the foundation of, I don't want to do this forever.
00:36:13
Speaker
i learned enough that it's what I want to do. And and this thesis around, okay, there's going to be a decade-long bank roll-up play here because of the disruption that the great financial crisis caused.
00:36:25
Speaker
And if you can do that well, you'll build an incredible franchise. um And so, you know, that's part of the SunWest story, which we'll obviously get get into, I'm sure. But, um you know, that's... And then risk management. But at the end of the day, as an entrepreneur...
00:36:42
Speaker
You have to put your big boy pants on and take a leap of faith. um and and And ultimately, like that's that's what how you create great success is taking risks.
00:36:53
Speaker
um It's also how you create great failure. and and And any entrepreneur that tells you they haven't failed is is either and they're exceptionally lucky and they're not they haven't it hasn't happened yet, or you know or they're you know they're not telling you the truth because... um ah But you know risk management, and this goes back to banking a bit and had the hedge fund business and everything else, is um you you just have to make sure your mistakes aren't too big, right?
00:37:20
Speaker
Learn quickly. If it's a mistake, figure it out very quickly. ask you that. Let me turn the question right back on you. like added you know Building and journey and risk. How did you get there? Yeah. that's been ah that that's an adventure in a journey and a risk how did you how did you get there It's interesting to to to think about it in that way.
00:37:40
Speaker
I always knew i was going to take risks. And so it was always about how can I de-risk it as much as possible. And it's funny because you and I have taken a very, very different paths on where we are right now.
00:37:54
Speaker
But a fundamental philosophy that we share is I'm actually grateful I waited as long as I did to actually become a founder and to take the risks that I did. Because you could never pull out all of the uncertainty.
00:38:08
Speaker
but at least you have a better understanding of what are the risks that you're taking, what's certain, what's uncertain, what are my own personal strengths versus what are my own personal weaknesses so that you can make sure to surround the right people around you and pick the right opportunities.
00:38:21
Speaker
hundred Love it. It doesn't change the fact that it's scary. Yeah. It doesn't change the fact that it's scary. Let's talk about the people element, the trust aspect. So you, like like I said before, you you couldn't do it alone, right? You needed to find the right types of partners.
Building Trust and Successful Partnerships
00:38:41
Speaker
ah How do you think about that? Those people that you either want on your team or the people that you actually decide to co-found or partner with and building out trust with those people over time?
00:38:54
Speaker
You know, yeah.
00:38:58
Speaker
At the end of the day, you know, people are, you just have to get to know people's character and you can do that. um you can do that through referrals. You can do that through and spending time with them, um, evaluating people's track record.
00:39:13
Speaker
Um, You know, and and and I think like also understanding people's motivations, right? Like ultimately, you know, you go back to a humanity structure. If you understand people's motivations, you understand understand how they operate.
00:39:28
Speaker
um You know, so I think that's that's an important um aspect when you think about, you know, I don't know if it's like... as much direct business partners, but when you think about banking or investing or you know partnership in that way, it's really figuring out you know what makes people tick and and what their vision are is and you know how they want to execute and and and then how you support them. Because you know that's the other really important thing in partnerships is a lot of I think a lot of times you go into a partnership and it's like, okay, what are they going to do for me?
00:40:03
Speaker
As the leader of an organization or a department, you are responsible for progress and results. So it makes sense that you develop a certain amount of self-interest. However, that principle will only get you so far.
00:40:17
Speaker
If you treat every partnership or collaboration as purely transactional, your reputation will tarnish quickly. When you take a genuine interest in the goals and motivations of others, you unlock a superpower of leadership.
00:40:32
Speaker
especially when you pair that with the ability to judge character. People will do almost anything for a paycheck until they burn out. If you want them to help you mountains, you'll have to tap into something deeper.
00:40:48
Speaker
What am I going to do for them? Because these partnerships are are you know two-way, three-way, four-way streets. And you know everybody has their own expertise, their own skillset, their own vantage point, things they're good at.
00:41:00
Speaker
And the best partnerships are when you have you know multiple people with complementary skillsets, right? ah Because then you're you're truly truly a team and teams win. And now you've been in partnership for a long time since you made that move from Darling Consulting.
00:41:15
Speaker
I'm curious, was there any particular time period where you're like, oh man, like you knew that this was the right decision. These were the right people that you wanted to, you know, conquer the world with. It's just, but it's been the whole way along the way.
00:41:27
Speaker
I mean, it's, you know it's ah you know, I've been partners with Eric and Steve Howdy for a long time now. And, you know, we've just built one incredible company together after another.
00:41:38
Speaker
um and And at the end of the day, you know that that compounds on itself and you learn each other's you know strengths and weaknesses and you execute together um and you delegate to each other the various things you're good at and and and build incredible companies.
00:41:55
Speaker
and And then, you know, these companies have gotten really big, you know, and and so, you know, we built incredible teams um around them to to to execute and and grow them and and evolve the way that banking's evolving. I mean, you can't hire the traditional people that you used to hire in banking today. You have you have to think outside of the box. You have to challenge the status quo.
00:42:15
Speaker
um and And I think that transcends banking, that transcends investing, bank tech. And even when you get into other companies, whether it be non-banking companies, the way marketing's happening is changing. I mean, just everything is evolving in such a transformational way so quickly that you know it's really important in finding people that understand it or you know can compliment your weaknesses so that you don't get blindsided.
00:42:43
Speaker
I'd love to kind of switch to the next phase of your career, if you will, because when you first joined Eric and Steve, um you kind of had this thesis of roll-up strategy, and there was a couple of different ways that you exited. And then it's kind of to quote Seinfeld, yada, yada, yada, you ended up as an operator at a bank.
00:43:04
Speaker
it like, wait, how did that happen? it was It's a crazy story. um So, you know we were doing a lot of M&A,
Growth and Challenges at SunWest Bank
00:43:12
Speaker
right? Buying failed banks. We bought five failed banks with SunWest. We bought you know a number with with the the other portfolio companies.
00:43:19
Speaker
you know At the time, I think we bought 13 failed banks in the span of five years. um and and And so, I would go and integrate all these acquisitions. And um you know And so as a result, I spent a lot of time at the portfolio companies.
00:43:35
Speaker
And SunWest was not in the fund. SunWest was the bank that that um you know was a... Eric and Steve bought half of um many, many years ago, and then the rest of it was publicly traded. And so you know we bought we we we bought all of it.
00:43:50
Speaker
and out We bought it steadily out of the public markets when those opportunity presents itself and then eventually took it private. um and and so it was the one bank that you know we didn't have other investors in. And so it had a different timeline, different profile, everything else compared to the ones that are in a private equity fund with outside investors.
00:44:10
Speaker
um And so so nonetheless, I spent a lot of time out here, a week, a month for every board meeting, and um and there are all these issues integrating these acquisitions, right? And it's
00:44:23
Speaker
it's It's what happens when you take a $300 million dollars bank in Tustin, California, and then buy banks in four different states um over a five-year period, and it turns into a billion-dollar bank that in four states that you're trying to operate. It's just a completely different animal.
00:44:39
Speaker
It needs a completely different management team. And so I was trying to help get that going. And I would come out for a week. I'd fix a bunch of things. I'd leave, go back, youll go to the other bank board meetings, or go back to Wisconsin, D.C.
00:44:52
Speaker
and um And then I would, I'd come back here for the next board meeting and all the things I was working on and fixing all got undone while I was gone. And so, and so that I, instead of gumdrop for a week, I came out for two weeks. Thanks God. I was single at the time, you know, and, and, and, and could do this sort of thing.
00:45:09
Speaker
So I come out here for two weeks and, and, uh, and fixed a lot of things. and then I leave and I come back and they undid everything that I'd done. You'd think that after six months or nine months, they would get you onto this um you know dynamic, but they just had a different mentality. i mean, there's been this hilarious story where i am ah came in like at 5 AM to get a bunch of work done and I couldn't get in the building.
00:45:34
Speaker
And so I went to the you know i went to the I went to the head of facilities and I'm like, all right, I really need to give me 24 hour access with ah my fob. And she's like, well, I'm not sure I'm to be able to do that for you. i might need to I think I need to call the CEO and ask if that's approval. I'm like, we own the bank.
00:45:54
Speaker
um So anyway, long long story short, ah you know i i it it it was two weeks a month, and it was three weeks a month, and then there was this one time i flew home back to my house, every plant in my house was dead, and I just sat there and I'm why am I doing this? And I um i i just picked up and I moved.
00:46:14
Speaker
um And yeah, it's 2016. I know because people ask me, how long have you lived in California? I'm like, I'm not sure, but I became a tax resident in 2016. So yeah, that was the journey. And I think the original plan was always, all right, go and fix this thing for three years and then find someone to actually come in and someone who can really run it, come in and run it. And at the end of the day, been a journey. It's been almost you know almost
00:46:46
Speaker
It's been almost 10 years at this point. and And we've we've created quite quite a business and you know I'm having fun doing it. So just keep growing it. That's awesome. I have two questions. I'll start with the first one ah but about what you just shared.
00:47:01
Speaker
So Subwayd who, I mean, we start the, one of the very first things that you told me right in the beginning was how you love numbers and how they just make sense to you. ah You talked a lot about diving into computers and like figuring out how to code and all that stuff.
00:47:17
Speaker
Integrating a bunch of acquisitions and doing turnarounds, right? Because they were failed banks, right? So there obviously were things that needed turnaround. It's less about numbers making sense and more about your ability to work and through people.
00:47:34
Speaker
I'm just curious how you how you successfully made that transition or you know in some cases that you maybe didn't successfully make that transition, but ah you learned from it kind of for your ah next swing at the ball.
00:47:48
Speaker
Yeah, I made a lot of people mistakes at first. ah Because when you're a hedge fund, you know private equity guy, you know and and now i make you know I make jokes about it, right? I'm like, oh yeah, they made decisions by spreadsheet.
00:47:59
Speaker
um You know, that that that was a big learning for me. And, you know, obviously made some mistakes over period of time because at the end of the day, you know, businesses are all about people.
00:48:11
Speaker
um And, you know, when you're in the hedge fund business, business all about numbers. And so, you know, that was, it's like it was the MBA of hard knocks. ah and And, you know, i i i learned at the expense of of of people through that period of time, but, you know, I learned very quickly.
00:48:28
Speaker
um And, you know, I had great mentors, right? um Eric's been an incredible mentor on the people side and taught me a lot that, you know, just allowed me to sort of make fewer mistakes, if you will. um But i've I've learned now and... and um you know At the end of the day, i think in our business, especially community regional banking, like it's all about how you merge people in technology. right That's our business.
00:48:53
Speaker
And and how do you how do you figure out where the people need to be inserted and and and how do you implement technology so that you've got a great UI? And at the same time, you know you've you've got people doing the things that they should be focused on instead of the rote tasks that you know we still do in banking today.
00:49:09
Speaker
I think there's probably a lot of people who aspire to be leaders that kind of fall into that same area where they might understand numbers and technology more than people. ah Is there one or two just big ahas that really kind of helped you to kind of make that transition?
00:49:25
Speaker
um You know, one of them was becoming a parent. It was one one of these fascinating things where all of a sudden when I became a dad,
00:49:37
Speaker
I had a different understanding for people's motivations. um Because when you're not a parent, you don't have a kid wanting to go for a walk in the morning or, you know, put you down at bedtime or get home at 5.30 so that you can sit down and eat dinner with them, right? yeah so So one of them was, wow, there are other
Leadership, Parenting, and Personal Growth
00:50:00
Speaker
priorities in life. And and that seems like a duh, Carson, why why did you miss that? Like you're, you're, you you know, you're like soulless or something like that. But I just, it was, it was being becoming a dad was just one of the greatest things on so many levels.
00:50:14
Speaker
um And then the other you know the other thing was, you know it was learning that everybody has different motivations.
00:50:25
Speaker
and And it's one of these things when you're the private equity equity the hedge fund business, There's one measurement tool. it's It's returns, right? There's nothing else. It's one number. it's It's just the return number.
00:50:38
Speaker
and And so there's a certain type of person that is motivated by that. And those are the people that go into that space. And when you are not in that space, everybody has different motivations all over your organization.
00:50:54
Speaker
As Carson pointed out a minute ago, parents grapple with this challenge at a level that goes way beyond most business scenarios or and mba case studies. A toddler can only be bribed so much before daily life becomes insufferable.
00:51:08
Speaker
Sure, you can force your children to do things, but that approach is even worse. You have to build trust if you want to accomplish anything with children or adult employees.
00:51:20
Speaker
And trust is built on compassion, empathy, and a mutual respect for boundaries. It's your job as a leader to listen deeply, get curious about what motivates each team member or partner, and build your strategy around that.
00:51:38
Speaker
And so the big aha moment was, really understanding what people's personal motivations are. Not what the business unit motivation is, not what my personal motivation is, what their personal motives are for their personal life.
00:51:53
Speaker
Because if you make them life successful and you help them be life successful, then ultimately they will contribute to the organization or contribute to you in some other way outside of the organization.
00:52:04
Speaker
But at the end of the day, like society is better when everybody's achieving what they want to achieve. No, I love that. My second question is someone as wide ranging of interests that you have and
00:52:24
Speaker
the idea of b being an operator at a bank for close to 10 years now, what has kept you interested? What has kept you there? Why are why are why are you still doing this?
00:52:38
Speaker
not the only person that asked me that question. um you know At the end of the day, one thing I've learned... So so in my reading program, right i i read i read a bio i I read three books at a time.
00:52:51
Speaker
right There's only three books on on the nightstand or you know scattered around the house. One's a biography, one's a business book, and one's sort of like a spiritual or religion book. um And one so so I've read, i can't tell you how many biographies.
Banking Transformation and Industry Evolution
00:53:04
Speaker
One thing I've found about every amazing entrepreneur is that they built, I should say entrepreneur, amazing company, is that it was built at the cross section of business.
00:53:19
Speaker
when transformational technology is happening, transformation is happening, whether it's technology as we think about today, whether it's technology like the railroads, technology like flight, whatever may be, when you have a and very significant technological transformation in an industry, and there is somebody who has spent so much time in that industry that they can see it happening, they understand what the vision looks like after.
00:53:44
Speaker
And I have this fundamental belief that that's happening in banking right now. And I think that if you have a a bank, and and I think it has to be a bank that's you know not quite are as small as we are, but but somewhere in the $3 to $15 billion dollars range. I think once you're above that, you you're you're not going to be able to evolve as quickly as you need to evolve.
00:54:05
Speaker
um I think there are a slew of of banks that size that can trans can can fundamentally transform our industry. And I think you've seen it with you know what Coastal Bank has done, Air Springs Coastal Bank has done with banking as a service. I mean, they they've built a transformational business that has you know withstood a a very significant regulatory landscape. right um and And they've changed like the definition of what a bank can be.
00:54:31
Speaker
and And I think that you know I see that opportunity. And that's why I'm doing this. Because I think that if... you know we build an incredible team and we keep executing the way we're executing and keep looking around the corner that we can build a really meaningful, transpirational bank for our country.
00:54:51
Speaker
Aspirational, but you know yeah have to have that. Well, everybody needs something to aspire to, right? Because that that is what can drive a lot of growth, a lot of ah pushing beyond limits that you otherwise would they ah be able to have and innovation. Why do other bankers that you talk to ah do it?
00:55:11
Speaker
The answers are always super varied. I would say the biggest trend that we hear has to do with the building community. Interesting. ah They just really like this, like being able to sit in a spot to be able to build a community, both with the employee base as well as their customers.
00:55:32
Speaker
And ah they could see, you know as they put their capital to work and stuff like that, you know they could see people progressing in their lives and businesses and they just really enjoy it. That's one of the beautiful parts of you know community banking in America, right? it's we're or We're different than every other country in the world with the volume of banks we have and the localized nature of them and you know being able to see the impact they have.
00:55:53
Speaker
It makes total sense. So I know that just... Obviously, you spend a good portion of time with with with the bank and growing towards that aspiration.
00:56:03
Speaker
But I also know, and we've already touched on a few other things that you're doing. For example, you've ah ah started a venture capital fund, Bank Tech Ventures, which we're a part of. And I know those aren't the only things that you do So I would love for our audience to learn a little bit about this type of transition. What I mean by this type of transition is moving from...
00:56:30
Speaker
leading or running a business or organization to leading and running multiple different organizations. So like having a portfolio of projects that you're working on rather than one specific ah thing. And that's something that's always stood out to me that you are navigating and being successful with.
00:56:48
Speaker
So I just love to hear a little bit about what that journey has been like for you and maybe some some thoughts or stories that others could learn from. Oh, it's not for the faint of heart.
00:56:59
Speaker
That's for sure. um You know, I think that, and and candidly, like a lot of people would tell you, if you really want to be successful, focus on one thing. um and And there's a lot of days that, you know, sometimes i I wish I went down that route.
00:57:14
Speaker
ah With that said, you know, all of it, with the exception of, you know, a handful of small projects, all is the same, all is the same vision, right? Which is create, create transformation in banking, right? And whether it is, you know, a data company that we started to help banks with data,
00:57:32
Speaker
you know um and data management that sort of seeded out at something that we saw an opportunity and what we were doing that could be productized for another bank, whether it be starting you know ah ah fraud solution for check fraud.
00:57:45
Speaker
we We filed patents around you know image capture on the front end of check processing and using blockchain for you know check processing and settlement and and you know built a like a bank fraud solution. Doing all of those things it all has the same goal it all is the same genesis so i guess that's the connectivity of it like it's not scattershot with the exception of like maybe the hotel we own in costa rica um but uh but the but but i think that you know it it really comes down to i have a things When things get boring, and they're very hard for me to do. so I'm always sort of pushing the envelope on on new things that are intellectually interesting, um for better or for worse, that that that is a weakness at the same time as is a strength.
00:58:29
Speaker
um and And then compartmentalization, right? So it's it's really about being focused on what you're focused on. um and and not multitasking.
00:58:40
Speaker
So when you're focused on this company, like you're focused on that and you're not managing these other things. So you have to compartmentalize your time. um I think, you know, I've been ah Elon Musk is like the greatest person at this. right So one of the things I do, is i just steal things from what he does and watch how he manages that dynamic and then sort of like tries to incorporate with my own style on different things.
00:59:04
Speaker
um Because yeah he he probably does it better than anyone I've seen um in all sorts of these different areas, especially getting into politics. Yeah, the breadth and variety of the of the big moonshots that he's taking from you know electric cars to space exploration to digging holes. Yeah, to robots. It's fascinating. It's amazing. what And then the politics. you know It's just amazing what he's yeah able to accomplish. Thank you for that.
00:59:35
Speaker
um I think it's it's helpful. And ah one of the things that you mentioned that really stood out to me is is at least have a theme, right? What's the central theme or thesis that you are building towards?
00:59:46
Speaker
um to make sure that there is at least some connective tissue along the way. And one of the things like, you know as much as I, you know I've always invested in the public markets my whole life, right? And and that's never stopped. um And, and, but it's also one of the things when you live on the West coast and the equity markets open at 630 and you need to be up at 530, right. Thinking about this stuff and you do that for a decade, gets old.
01:00:08
Speaker
Uh, and, and when you, you know, you don't get to shut down at 230, right. Like the rest of the people in the equity markets do. And, you know, so I think the interesting thing about, about that is like, there's been days where I'm like, i don't want to do this anymore, but at the, but, but oh the, um,
01:00:25
Speaker
The sharpness that you have to operate with in terms of economic data and economic trend lines and all those other things that that requires you to know is one of these things that keeps you, folk like keeps you having, it gives you an edge in banking.
01:00:40
Speaker
Because banking, like I mentioned, is so backward looking, so slow to adapt, right? you know You're not a consuming housing start data you know every week. you know And the and that's that's the ah like I think that's a real differentiator. And so you know that good to your threat, I mean, ah everything you're involved in should be related to what your end goal is. Otherwise, it's a waste of time.
01:01:03
Speaker
Things can build on top of each other. You can get that compounding effect of your knowledge and your time. Yeah, 100%. Love that. All right. So we always, as we wrap up, we always love to have two different questions. So the first one is put business books aside, because I'm sure, you know, lots of people could know all the business books that you want to read, but a non-business book, what would you recommend our listeners take some time reading?
Recommended Reading and Final Thoughts
01:01:27
Speaker
Atlas Shrugged is my favorite book. And if you have not read Atlas Shrugged, i I think you absolutely have to read it. And and It was who was interesting you over the last sort of decade, um with it being my favorite book, I could basically tell you what 100-page segment we were in based upon like what was going on in our government and our economy and all these other areas.
01:01:53
Speaker
um And so you know if you haven't read it, read it. you know If you don't want to read it, audiobook it. But Ayn Rand has just done did did an incredible job laying out the pitfalls of where a capitalist society, where i where a society can go when government gets too involved in capitalism and and um and the issues of the people and the issues with government. And and literally it you know it prophesies the last kind of four years and if not the last 20, just really remarkable.
01:02:28
Speaker
Well, a common theme that you've touched on multiple times is really understanding people's motivations. And you know that book definitely does dive deep into what are the things that are motivating people's decisions and you know what are they being rewarded for and not being rewarded for, then what types of decisions happen based off of that. So it's not surprising that that has had an outsized influence in your life.
01:02:52
Speaker
All right. And then to wrap it up, So is a leader born or is a leader made? i So I believe that everybody is born to be a leader, but it's a function or born with the potential to be a leader, but it's a function of whether they are able to find that in themselves to lead.
01:03:17
Speaker
And I, and I think that that goes back a bit to what I talked about just like my kids, which is People lead because they have a confidence to lead, um a confidence that they can blaze a trail or a confidence to help those around them.
01:03:36
Speaker
um And everybody has that inside of them. But it's just a function of you you put yourself in the right environment or landscape or... um path of learning and in order to build that confidence in the torters to lead from those around you. And then us as individuals, each one of us that are leaders, a true leader knows when to have the humility to follow someone else who is a better leader on what you're trying to accomplish.
01:04:04
Speaker
um and And so, yeah, so i think think it's born inside of everyone. It's just a function of whether you find it. Yeah. No, I love that. Thank you for sharing that. I've often shared that I found that the best leaders are also the best followers.
01:04:18
Speaker
Yes. knowing Knowing the humility of when to step back and when to step up. It's called marriage.
01:04:30
Speaker
Well, Carson, thank you so much for your time. It's been just an absolute pleasure chatting with It's been great, Nathan. Thanks for having me on. Thanks for doing these podcasts.
01:04:41
Speaker
The 19th century philosopher Soren Kierkegaard once wrote in a journal, life must be understood backwards. But with this, one forgets the second proposition, that it must be lived forwards.
01:04:56
Speaker
Kierkegaard is echoing an idea that also appears in Andean and Maori cultures. As physical creatures, we can only see what's in front of us. But from an existential standpoint, we can only see the experience of of our past.
01:05:11
Speaker
This may explain why so many industries, not just bankers, preoccupy themselves with history but fail to anticipate what the future holds. As Carson demonstrated, you need a methodical dedication to diving deeply and understanding widely if you want to navigate the uncertainty of the future.
01:05:31
Speaker
His ability to look backward and forward when making business decisions isn't an accident, it's a finely honed skill. But man does not succeed in business by spreadsheet alone.
01:05:43
Speaker
Carson discovered that some of his most important leadership lessons had to do with human empathy and compassion, not balance sheets or bond markets. Becoming a parent often forces that lesson on people as it did on Carson.
01:05:56
Speaker
Children seem like horribly irrational creatures that respond predictably to love. As leaders of adult humans and complex organizations, you won't get far if you can't apply the algebra of emotion and the calculus of business in equal measures.
01:06:12
Speaker
Thank you again for listening to Builder Banker, Hacker Chief. Our investment in this show wouldn't mean anything without the incredible listeners and guests who keep showing up episode after episode.
01:06:26
Speaker
You'll find the link to Carson's book recommendations in the show notes. You've been listening to Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief, a podcast produced and distributed by ZSuite Technologies Incorporated, all rights reserved.
01:06:38
Speaker
I'm your host, Nathan Baumeister, the CEO and co-founder of ZSuite Tech. This show is co-produced, written, and edited by Zach Garver. Sound engineering was done by Nathan Butler at Nimblewit Productions.
01:06:50
Speaker
If you enjoyed the episode, please take a moment to leave us a review or share the episode. This helps other people to find our show. You can also listen on all major podcast platforms, including Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, and Spotify.