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Zach Duke – Breaking technology, the journey of self-awareness, and embracing failure through baby steps | Episode 9
380 Plays10 months ago
Welcome to episode eight of Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief! Joining me today is Zach Duke, Co-Founder and CEO of Finosec.
On this show, I’m unpacking the stories, decisions, and influences that make people successful leaders. For Zach, the turning point in his career came at age 41 when he decided that it was time to launch his own cybersecurity company.
My name is Nathan Baumeister; I am the Co-founder and CEO of ZSuite Tech and the host of this podcast.
If you look at Zach’s resume, you’ll see a long, successful career working in financial technology, including a successful acquisition by one of the major core processing providers. What you don’t see is the many times he pivoted and leaned into his own shortcomings to become a better leader. Today, Zach has assembled a team where every employee can play to their strengths and relax in the knowledge that their weaknesses won’t be used as leverage.
Finosec, is helping financial institutions transform their approach to cybersecurity governance. This service will only become more important as cyber-attacks grow more frequent and sophisticated. Creating secure IT systems requires humility and continuous improvement, qualities that Zach Duke has in spades.
This episode is a reminder that it’s never too late to chase your dreams, and that sometimes the thing you’re running away from is the thing you should be running toward.
Resources:
Zach’s recommendations:
Jack Carr’s Terminal List Book Series
CliftonStrengths (formerly Clifton StrengthsFinder)
Connect:
Recommended
Transcript
Embracing Failure for Innovation
00:00:00
Speaker
And what resonated with me is he learned more about himself. In chasing failure than he would have ever done if he hadn't pushed himself out of his comfort zone and i think when when when i think of leadership. When i think of innovation. If you're in a scenario where you don't think about pushing yourself pushing your team being in a scenario where you can actually be wrong and fail.
00:00:29
Speaker
you really don't know what you can accomplish.
Lessons from Leaders
00:00:53
Speaker
I'm looking for hidden moments of truth and sacrifice, wisdom and folly, and what it's like to navigate the treacherous waters at the helm of a growing company. I want to do all of that so that together we can learn from their journey and use that insight personally and professionally.
00:01:10
Speaker
In
Introduction to Zach Duke
00:01:11
Speaker
episode nine, my guest is Zach Duke, co-founder and CEO of Finisec. He's the kind of person who creates instant connections with nearly everyone he meets. It's hard not to enjoy the enthusiasm and authenticity that Zach brings to the simplest of interaction. But that wasn't always the professional face of Zach Duke, even if it's always been his true character.
Building a Culture of Love
00:01:33
Speaker
Corporate culture has a way of encouraging people to obscure weakness and run from failure.
00:01:38
Speaker
Those dynamics never sat well with Zach as an employee. As CEO of Finisec, he's done everything in his power to build a company that operates from a foundation of love and continuous improvement. Here's what I find so remarkable about this conversation.
Security Through Collaboration
00:01:52
Speaker
You could easily be fooled into thinking a cybersecurity CEO should exemplify the icy fortitude of a bank vault. In reality, true security comes from knowing your strengths and inviting other people to collaborate using their strengths.
00:02:08
Speaker
It's my great pleasure to add Zach Duke to the amazing roster of guests at Builder Banker Hacker Chief. Pour yourself a cup of coffee and settle in for a great conversation.
Influences from Upbringing
00:02:27
Speaker
I've had the wonderful privilege of getting to know you through multiple different industry events over many, many years. Thanks for having me. Such an honor.
00:02:39
Speaker
The thing that I find very interesting and one thing that has stuck with me ever since we started becoming friends and kind of talking about our backstories and stuff like that is how much
00:02:54
Speaker
your growing up years actually had to do with development within business as well. I think that's pretty unique in regards to a lot of our leadership stories in regards to how intentional it seemed to be. And I don't know if it was necessarily from you or your parents or what it was, but I would love to hear a little bit about that so that we could learn from it.
Work Ethic and Customer Focus
00:03:18
Speaker
By seventh grade, I'd actually lived in five different states and went to seven different schools. I wouldn't wish that on anybody, for the record. Yeah, that sounds hard. But I wouldn't change it because it made me a lot of who I am. And the next question that comes up when I'm having these conversations is, oh, well, what was going on? Well, my dad was a manufacturer sales rep for furniture.
00:03:47
Speaker
working hard. He had these sayings and these dynamics as I look back that are so impactful for me today. The first one I'll drop, and there'll be several I'm sure as we talk through the conversations today, is I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I'll be damned if you're going to outwork me.
00:04:07
Speaker
And one of the things that was very unique with Dad is he would take me on trips, really starting about age 11.
Customer-Centric Success
00:04:19
Speaker
And when I say trips, essentially he sold furniture to furniture stores. So he was a manufactured rep for furniture. And he actually had a $0 base salary.
00:04:31
Speaker
And I want to highlight that because I think some of the things I'm going to talk through, really, that impact is different. So the only way we had things at the home front, like food and shelter and things we wanted to go buy, was if the furniture stores sold my dad's furniture. And he had multiple states that he covered. And as he would take me on these trips, and when you go see multiple customers, he would teach me things.
00:05:00
Speaker
from an attentionality standpoint. One of the ones I remember very distinctly, again, walking in, it's how to shake a hand. Seems pretty self-explanatory, but it's somebody and I have the firm grip. Don't make it where they feel like their fingers are going to crush, but also don't give them the wet fish. Then, secondarily, things like the customer is the reason why you're in business.
00:05:28
Speaker
Let that marinate for a second. When I start with my dad and that $0 base salary, the impact of that was significant, especially in those formative years as I was going through that. Zach said marinate, so let's do that. Especially in the tech world, but really any business, it's easy to get fixated on your world-changing idea and how everybody's going to buy it and love it.
00:05:56
Speaker
It's the kind of hubris that works great on stage and in the press, but often leads to bankruptcy and burnout.
Balancing Belief and Customer Focus
00:06:02
Speaker
As a traveling salesman, Zach's dad taught him to focus on the customer, listening to needs and bringing solutions. I've seen Zach modeled this by bringing his children to trade shows and having them work the booth alongside him. A successful CEO needs to walk a delicate line between these two realities. Believing wholeheartedly in the product or service,
00:06:23
Speaker
and keeping the customer at the center of everything your company does. I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about my mom. My mom also was, she was a middle school teacher, actually got her PhD. So I had these kind of hustling, working hard parents that were always just getting after it. So I think that grit,
00:06:52
Speaker
Dynamic was really kind of ingrained early early on Yeah, I love that knowing you and your your team. I know that you kind of live these values now is You're in the leadership position at Finosec, which will you know get into later on in the conversation? but I heard transparency always share the why and Try and bring people in as part of the decision
00:07:16
Speaker
as some really great leadership principles that I think you kind of touched on there that your parents modeled for you when you were quite young. One of the things that you are very well known for in our industry is
00:07:34
Speaker
you might just be with someone for five minutes and within that five minutes, you're already deep into some sort of really deep conversation where you show this immense curiosity about the other person talking about things that you
Authentic Connections
00:07:48
Speaker
wouldn't talk about with someone that you've known for like 10 years. And, uh, you know, it's, it's a direct reflection. I think of what you're sharing is, is how you learn how to make connections deeply with people in a quick amount of time rather than something that's over a long period of time.
00:08:04
Speaker
which I know I've benefited from and many others as well. Yeah. And I think that, um, you know, the vulnerability of being real, you know, I think in, in social media, like I love LinkedIn, right? And, and a lot of our business development strategy is phenomenal on that, but that's just the highlight reel. It's like everything that's going right.
00:08:28
Speaker
And I think when we look at the world today with AI and everything that's changing, relationships are even going to be more paramount. And authenticity is missed. And I think if you can lean in and be deep and just be real with people and feel comfortable with that. And there's a special dynamic that I found of letting your guard down.
00:08:56
Speaker
And I use this analogy with my team when I'm talking three things. Out of the 100 people, the 99 out of the 100 that you go and you're just authentic with and you're vulnerable with, and the impact of those versus the one out of 100 that could be the poison pill or come back to bite you, man, you get it back all day long with the 99.
00:09:19
Speaker
But if you only go think of, gosh, this one out of 100 is going to make such a significant impact and I can't be vulnerable because what if you miss out on building relationships and rapport? And I think that's something I'm just very comfortable with and believe wholeheartedly. And even if it's 90 to 100, which is not.
00:09:40
Speaker
You still get a lot more out of it. There are absolute dynamics that I think tie in when you start thinking about leadership and really your personal brand. What do you want to be known for? Yeah.
Career Transition to Business Development
00:09:55
Speaker
As we move on in your journey, which you've already touched on a little bit, you ended up going to school, studying to be an engineer, got a job to be an engineer. Speaking about vulnerability, you found out it wasn't your thing.
00:10:09
Speaker
Walk me through, tell me that story. Did you have one aha moment? I remember I was at a bank and we were doing this security update. If there's an engineer listening, I'm an MCSE and T40. For everybody else, that's like saying I'm certified in an Atari, so this is a long time ago.
00:10:34
Speaker
I was actually doing a late night server rebuild security configuration and i remember the servers and they just didn't come up.
00:10:44
Speaker
And that was the first one where it was very clear. And, you know, I missed a step, you know, something that was misconfigured. And I mean, it was just a nightmare to go try and restore. The last one I remember is this is actually right when I transitioned to account management and kind of the business development side of the house. As I was at a customer, they had an issue. I was like, oh, I know how to fix that. And I did a couple of clicks. Next thing you know, the teller machine won't reboot.
00:11:16
Speaker
I also had a scenario where I had an in-house core processing system that because of the work we were doing, we had to take down on the 15th of the month in the middle of the day.
00:11:32
Speaker
when everybody was doing deposits back in, you know, I mean, this is, you know, I'm dating myself and all my gray hairs that y'all can't see. But, you know, those were pretty apparent scenarios that I'm going to have a problem in this role, and I need to figure out how to facilitate it and how to try to get in the right spot.
00:11:59
Speaker
For anyone listening who isn't familiar with banking technology, taking down a core processor on the 15th of the month is equivalent to rotating the tires on a fire truck immediately after getting called to a four-alarm fire. You just don't do it. Now, Zach got his degree as a software engineer, so he clearly put in the time and effort required by the profession. But his dedication to the craft didn't translate into a career as a developer.
00:12:27
Speaker
Instead, it gave Zach something more powerful, the self-awareness and technical understanding to assemble a team of people who are technical business. It's easy to confuse those qualities, but technical skill doesn't make you a strong leader and vice versa. Zach is living proof that leadership is a discipline unto itself. You know, I always joke, I just wanted to fool somebody getting out of college to hire me.
00:12:55
Speaker
And I was kind of blessed right spot, right time. And we were at a place where we were growing and expanding and there were opportunities. And one of my mentors, Mike Bell, he was also a former engineer and took me kind of under his wing and kind of taught me how to go do the business development side and get me comfortable in my shoes and be able to go facilitate and lean into those strengths as part of that. But I think the nice thing for me is that engineering background helped because I understood what I was talking
00:13:26
Speaker
Even though I wasn't good at it, I was able to go articulate and be able to explain the components and the reasons why and the strategies. That's helped me to this day, that technical and especially when you're talking about the things that we touch on with cybersecurity and information security governance, understanding the technical components is critical.
Leveraging Strengths and Team Dynamics
00:13:47
Speaker
Now, you had quite the journey. You went from
00:13:52
Speaker
engineer to business development and sales to presumably having some of your first leadership roles and figuring out how to grow companies. As you look across that journey, what are some of the defining things that you really felt like you learned in a big way by being able to go through that experience?
00:14:14
Speaker
I think the first thing I would tell you is go figure out the stuff you do really well and put processes around that and be intentional around expanding it because it's probably not easy for everybody else.
00:14:28
Speaker
I think that's, that's a hallmark for me. And I know you touched on this, and this is a topic you and I, you and I have spent a lot of time on. You touched on StrengthsFinder specifically in this context. I think it is helpful, because I'm not sure if everyone's familiar with the StrengthsFinder concept, especially, I think that generally, at least here in the US, a lot of us are brought up with this idea of, let's find all of our weaknesses and make them strengths.
00:14:56
Speaker
And quite honestly, I think there's some good questioning on whether or not that's the right way to do things. Part of my story, and I think if we were sitting down and having a cup of coffee with the audience and we're just kind of one-on-one, one of the things I would tell you that's been transformational for me is going through a process of really becoming self-aware. Drinks Finder for me was awesome. Now when I took it, it was in a pretty challenging spot. I remember actually another one of my
00:15:25
Speaker
mentors Paul Flanagan was going through and came in as a consultant to come in and implement StrengthsFinder for us. As I was going through, I was like, man, I've got no problem going through StrengthsFinder, but my question to him was, who's going to get my weaknesses and how's it going to be used against me? Because my dynamic was really what you were talking through, that dynamic of, I don't want to have somebody to know that my weaknesses.
00:15:51
Speaker
What I really was able to embrace with StrengthsFinder is the flip side of that is we all have these unique talents, and when you're building a team, if you can find people that have talents that are different than yours, man, is it Rockstar? My co-founder and I, Scott Makara, he is wired so differently than me. Thank goodness. Because it makes a special dynamic when you have a team and a process where you can have people that can walk alongside you.
00:16:19
Speaker
It can make the team better. So StrengthsFinder has been very intentional benefits. It also put me on the path of trying to figure out, okay, what do I want to do with my career? When I started Fenesec, I was 41.
00:16:40
Speaker
It took me several years of pondering of what do I want to do next and what is that process to get to the place where I said, hey, I'm going to go try to build something from nothing and to get to that spot. And StrengthsFinder was one of those things that put me on that journey. For me, it just goes back to self-awareness and just understanding who you are. I do want to nail, though, I think all these, and I love these personality tests and StrengthsFinder components, these things,
00:17:10
Speaker
I know you're a big fan of Enneagram too. Yeah, Enneagram's another one that I would say, again, we're having a cup of coffee. I'm sitting across the table from you. What I would tell you is if you got 15% of the impact of Enneagram yourself, it'll change your life of what it had for me.
00:17:38
Speaker
And it really created a scenario where I became better understanding that combined with Enneagram was a very significant piece of my story. And really what I was able to define is there's this dynamic of understanding who you are
00:18:03
Speaker
and then understanding where your gaps are and how you communicate things. And both of those scenarios, I would just, as I'm talking through it, they're directionally correct. You can't put somebody in a box.
00:18:20
Speaker
And just because I've gone and I've spent 45 minutes or 30 minutes on a test doesn't mean that's who I am or who I will be either. It's really just something to become self-aware and say, hey, based on this, what does that tell me? How do I lean in? How do I apply that in my work? How do I apply that with my team? How do I apply that with vulnerability? One of the things that drives me nuts about my Enneagram, one of the things, I go through an arena, I'm going to go to the negative. That's kind of human nature, right?
00:18:50
Speaker
And I remember sharing this with my team and one of the things that it says is, on mine is, may overcommit themselves and has problems falling through in tasks. Well, that's great as a CEO. If you're not familiar with the Enneagram personality system, it focuses on nine types with every person displaying a secondary or wing and a variety of high and low functioning behaviors.
00:19:19
Speaker
Like many personality systems that can create self-awareness as you see behaviors in the context of how you're wired, instead of as defects you need to root out. As you can see from Zach's story, self-awareness brings the opportunity to lean into your wiring or run away from it. And a person's response to that information is what separates leaders who fail their way into success from those who hide from their weaknesses.
00:19:46
Speaker
I love that Zach isn't too proud to share this story openly with us and that he accounts for it in his business strategy. The flip side of that is, is you can really go through and have somebody like Scott, who's the process guy, unlike any other. And Scott's my CTO co-founder. I can go and say, hey, here's the target. Here's the scenario.
00:20:11
Speaker
let's make sure we execute on this and I don't have to worry about it. I don't have to be the one that's falling through on those tasks. I don't have to be in that scenario. So I think that that dynamic of just understanding your strengths and where you start, where you should stop is really, really important. Yeah. Well, I love that. I mean, I love it. Your whole point is wrapped up on this idea that if you want to develop yourself, you first need to be self aware.
00:20:37
Speaker
And for you, these tools, Enneagram, StrengthsBinders, have been good lenses to look at yourself in, to be able to look at yourself in different ways, to learn more about who you are, not necessarily to define yourself, but to have the structure provided. And there's lots of ways to do that. It could be through mentors, it could be through conversations. I think probably, and my guess is you'd agree with this,
00:21:02
Speaker
take all of it, right? Like take all of it. Because the more you can understand yourself, the better you're going to be able to know how you can contribute the most in whatever environment that you need. But also more importantly to what I think you were coming down to there is who do you need to get to join your team?
Starting Finisec: A Leap of Faith
00:21:22
Speaker
So let's dive into the founding story of Finasek. You had this great experience.
00:21:30
Speaker
With your previous organization, you were really diving deep into self-awareness and kind of on this journey. Said you were 41 is kind of when that itch started coming over you. And I know you had some formative experiences that really got you to push yourself over the edge, and I'd love for you to share some of that. Yeah, so one of the things that
00:21:55
Speaker
was transformational for me. I was actually, I was in church. And before some of y'all just flip off and be like, oh no, here we go, right? This is like a TED talk. So a guy comes in and this is literally on my 41st birthday.
00:22:16
Speaker
And it's Ryan Leake. If you haven't heard Ryan's story, if you want to shoot me a note after, I'll be happy to send you his session on this. But essentially, his whole thing was this concept of chasing failure. And Ryan actually was, as he would have called, YMCA good at basketball.
00:22:37
Speaker
So played in college, which he'd be somebody that you just didn't want to go play against if you're playing one on one or you're playing pick up basketball. But he wasn't what he would consider NBA good. Well, he has this vision that he wants to go out and he wants to try out for the NBA. So he goes through this process of emailing and calling and trying to get this place where he actually goes and does this tryout. And he finally gets the Phoenix Suns to say, sure, come on out.
00:23:08
Speaker
And he just gets smoked, like absolutely just smoked. And then he has this brilliant idea of, you know, that was really difficult. I think I want to go try out for another team. And he continued that process. And what ended up, his story was he tried out for every NBA basketball team. And what resonated with me is he learned more about himself
00:23:34
Speaker
in chasing failure than he would have ever done if he hadn't pushed himself out of his comfort zone. And I think when I think of leadership, when I think of innovation, if you're in a scenario where you don't think about pushing yourself, pushing your team, being in a scenario where you can actually be wrong and fail,
00:23:58
Speaker
You really don't know what you can accomplish. It's so comical. I can go back to that moment. This was pre-pandemic and we were in person. My wife and I were driving out of the church parking lot. We're one of those big churches in North Atlanta, Andy Stanley's church. We're pulling out and as we're going through that melody, my wife, she's like, why don't you get out of the service?
00:24:20
Speaker
I think I need to go start my own company. Yeah, that's exactly what one would expect to hear after sitting in church, right? Yeah, she was like, what? Were we in the same room? Where did that come from? And I think shortly thereafter, it was like, OK, I'm going to put the pieces in place. And four months later, I was with my boss telling him, hey, I'm going to leave. And I'm going to go start my own gig. And it was history from there. Yeah.
00:24:50
Speaker
So I can't help but think of how many people sitting there saying, yeah, but I don't actually buy that. I don't believe at my company or I don't believe that even myself am okay with me failing.
00:25:07
Speaker
I'm okay with me making mistakes okay with me you know falling short like i need to be on i need to hit. I need to do all the things that i need to be do i constantly need to be a success and the phone trip up once that it's all over. How do you fight that narrative at least within the realm of the universe that you have some influence over right yeah i think the first thing is if you're in a leadership role you need to have everyone that's below you not feel that way.
Creating a Learning Environment
00:25:36
Speaker
That is hands down. That is your responsibility. And if you're putting pressure on them that they think that perfection is the only answer, that is such a mess. So really what you need to do is you need to model the dynamic of being okay with highlighting the things that you did wrong.
00:25:54
Speaker
and what you learn from it. I'm such a big believer is we're gonna fail fast. We're gonna try stuff and if it doesn't work, that's not a problem. I'd rather do that than be stagnant. And having that from a leadership perspective is so important.
00:26:11
Speaker
And the conversations that you'll have with your team because of that changes the whole game. And so I just can't articulate that enough. Now, if you're not in the CEO role, that's a bigger challenge. There are dynamics there where you may not have the coverage you need to have. So you got to make sure you cover your team. And make sure that you have things in place that you can have it where it's not your team that made a mistake. It was you that made the mistake.
00:26:41
Speaker
especially in those cultures, you've got to be okay with having a scenario where you have heavy shoulders as a leader. And ultimately what I found is when you do that correctly, you'll have folks that will run through walls for you. All of a sudden, that's the expectation for not just your team, but everybody. And that's probably the piece that I get the most energy out of today when I look at the team building dynamic for us. Yeah. Well, and I think one of the interesting things for those that do sales as a profession,
00:27:12
Speaker
It's one of those professions that there's no hiding, whether you're successful or not. It is so easily trackable. It is so visible to everybody in the organization, whether or not deals are closed or not. And I can't help but think of your dad modeling this behavior and what you were talking about, you know, zero base, 100% commission. Hey.
00:27:36
Speaker
I made the money, we could do this, but remember, there's gonna be times when I'm not, and we're gonna have to do something different. And I'm gonna share when that happens, and that's just the way it's gonna be. And when that happens, let's make adjustments, right? Like you said, fail fast, let's move to the next thing. Let's not keep trying to do the exact same thing in the exact same way, because then that means there's no learning. So taking the lessons all the way from back then,
00:28:07
Speaker
with, I just can't help but think of Zach riding along in the car with your dad, going to all these different sales calls to now within a sec. Do you have any examples or stories that you can think of where y'all took a big swing and missed and then how you and the team were able to adjust appropriately for that?
00:28:31
Speaker
Which one, right? I mean, I think there's this dynamic of... I'll go back to what you talked about earlier, and I mentioned the dynamic of the half steps and the baby steps. I think if you're really leaning into fast failure, the big failures really don't happen as big. Really, what ends up happening is you have lots of little pivots, lots of little dynamics, and you don't have this buildup of, gosh, it's got to be right, gosh, it's got to be right, and then if it's not right, oh my gosh.
00:29:02
Speaker
And I think that's what I've been able to find. And really that goes into innovation as a whole. Being stagnant is not the scenario that you want to be able to go have inside your organization and be able to have applied.
00:29:21
Speaker
the dynamic of how you go build things. I remember when we were first doing our user access reporting platform, we actually were trying to build this on top of Salesforce and you talk about a debacle. We learned pretty quick that that wasn't going to be the right way to go facilitate and build things. I think it also takes
00:29:51
Speaker
Comfort, chutzpah, you know, I think as a leader, you've got to be okay with, we got to pivot. And, you know, I think that's the other thing that, you know, you can't sit in front of the elevator, you know, you just hit the button and it's going down. How long do you sit there if the elevator doesn't come? Is it a minute? Five minutes? An hour? Three hours? Man, I hit the button.
00:30:21
Speaker
So that tension, that escalation of commitment is so important when you think about leadership of, now for me, I have to be intentional around making sure that we've got all those pieces, but that dynamic of hitting that button, if we're at three, four minutes and the elevator hadn't come, I'm like, man, I bet you that thing's broke down.
00:30:47
Speaker
How many levels am I? Man, I can walk down those. You know what? I probably need the steps anyway. Yeah. Even finding the positive aspects, right? Of having to change your plan. Yeah. But just real quick, if there are any budding entrepreneurs listening to this who are trying to start up companies or start up new product lines or something like that, Zach just gave you one of the most important tidbits that is missed more than anything else. Small baby steps over time with constant adjustments is the way to do it.
00:31:17
Speaker
where most startup companies fail, or at least this has been my observation, Zach, you can share your thoughts as well, is they come up with an idea, they spend all the money to make that idea a reality, and they fight the world to make it happen.
00:31:33
Speaker
And then what happens is, is they fight the world and they find out that it's not needed. Whereas if you just took one step after another step after another step and you listened very carefully to what the market is telling you, you're not going to have that huge failure because the market will direct you of where you need to go. So, I mean, just beautifully said, I love that. You can miss the huge failures by accepting and learning the small ones. 100%, 100%. I love that.
00:32:01
Speaker
So when you think about, when you think about the arc of your career, are there any other big influences that kind of come to mind?
Building a Smart Network
00:32:18
Speaker
But we talked about Enneagram, we talked about strength finders, we've talked about some of those things, but some of the, that just have had kind of an outsized impact. I think that would be helpful for people here.
00:32:31
Speaker
I'll actually talk through where you and I actually met. You know, AFT. So AFT, Financial Technology Association, has been fantastic for me. Now, we apply this in a way because not everyone can join AFT and not everyone can attend AFT. So if you're in a leadership role, you may go googleaftweb.com. And if you're not familiar, you need to go check them out because it's an amazing group.
00:33:02
Speaker
But let me just talk about the concept. The first thing you need to do is you need to go find a place where there are people that are a lot smarter than you are that are in the room. How about different strengths? Nathan, you're a great example. You came up in HR and people officer and scenario. And if I've got a problem with somebody, something, and I'm trying to figure out what's the right way to do it, and it's anything related to that side, I pick up the phone and call. It's Nathan. I don't have that strength. I don't have that knowledge. I don't have that expertise.
00:33:32
Speaker
I could go pretend. That'd be pretty lame. And so what I found is getting a network of people around you that you can trust, that can be authentic with you, that can help you is so critical. And it goes back to what we talked about earlier as you have to be in a scenario where you're comfortable giving and those scenarios, not just being the taker.
00:33:58
Speaker
And finding a place where you can have peer collaboration, common mentoring, that's been foundational for me. I was at an organization for 19 years
00:34:20
Speaker
from starting a college until I started Finasec. And I realized that that had a lot of advantages because I knew the landscape, I knew the processes, and I was that engineer. I knew what I was talking through on the sales and biz dev side. But it also had a lot of disadvantages because I hadn't seen other things. I didn't have a different perspective. So how do I expand my scope and help offset that? And I think when you're in a scenario and you want to be a leader,
00:34:48
Speaker
Lean into that and there's folks that, I mean, I've been so blessed by people that have poured into me that are so willing. Really, you just got to be okay with taking a leap and trying to take the steps to make those things happen. Yeah.
00:35:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think the older and older I get, the more and more I realize how beautiful a network is. And I think a lot of people, especially younger folks, think of networks as kind of surface level and perhaps like not cool or whatever, but really just meeting people and making connections and helping them and just
00:35:29
Speaker
serving has done more for my own personal joy, happiness, and fulfillment than pretty much anything else. Yeah. Let me just nail this. Let's just go through a scenario and you go help a bunch of people in that scenario.
00:35:45
Speaker
It has a compounding effect on how you feel, how your impressions are, all of those components. And even if you don't get anything back, just the dynamic of how it fills the cup is part of the special sauce. And I think a lot of times that goes back to that whole dynamic of
00:36:03
Speaker
vulnerability, transparency, authenticity, and I passionately believe that that is going to be the special sauce as we look towards the future. When you look at things around conversational AI and the dynamics, I mean, you can get an email out now. I get them all the time about, hey, I saw you're the CEO of that and you do these things because they got my LinkedIn profile and they uploaded it to chat GPT and now they're sending me these things.
00:36:32
Speaker
Well, how do you have relationships get built in a real way? Well, I think the things we're talking through. This is such an important concept for the financial technology industry to get a hold of, and it applies to other industries as well. Especially as we see the capabilities of generative AI increase, more people will try using it as a proxy for the messy human process required to build true connection with other people.
00:37:02
Speaker
Now, I can't predict the future. But if history is any guide, the best approach is to use technology to enhance human capabilities, not replace humans altogether. Machines can be optimized for efficiency, authentic relationships, and on. So as we wrap up our conversation, one of the things
00:37:31
Speaker
that I always love to dig deeper into is, and we've talked about some business books and it's a very common thing to hear about in a bunch of podcasts, but I want to hear a recommendation of a non-business
Balancing Work and Self-Care
00:37:43
Speaker
book. So something that has helped you kind of define who you are in your leadership style or whatnot, or maybe that you've just enjoyed that you wouldn't hear in a typical business related podcast.
00:37:55
Speaker
So I think for me, the first one, and this goes to our, and I've got a couple for you. So our purpose statement at Fenesec is love, serve, give. And I passionately believe that if we love our employees, that's such a big bold word.
00:38:19
Speaker
And that love flows over the way that we serve our customers and because of that we can give back in crazy unique ways. The love piece of that is very unique and that's faith-based. That's the Bible. I actually start our team meetings pretty consistently when we're in person on 1 Corinthians 13.
00:38:40
Speaker
And for those of y'all who have been in a wedding at any point, that's the love is thing in the dynamics. And I passionately believe that those philosophies of love
00:38:53
Speaker
And being able to go have those scenarios are foundational I've got some devotions that I do in the morning, you know that are kind of in that same side You know right now though if you're gonna ask me what I'm reading that's kind of nonfiction We're not a business book or fiction related. I love some Jack Carr You know, that's the terminal list guy if you haven't watched that, you know and one of the things I've I found is it's really healthy for me and I think this goes into the stuff that you got to think about with self-health and
00:39:24
Speaker
The dynamics that sometimes we don't talk about, it is so good for me to go and read some fiction and just have my mind actually unplug. That's my deal these days, is reading Jack Carr. I'm actually on the sixth book now of his seven series. He's getting a lot of money from me from Kendall as I go down with these books.
00:39:53
Speaker
But I enjoy that dynamic of just being able to kind of check out and being able to go facilitate. Not that it's been kind of career building or anything else. I don't think that's what you're looking for. It's just, how do I apply those? Well, I think it definitely goes to show you that this idea of balance, which doesn't necessarily mean all things being equal, right? Yeah, right. Balance is about balance.
00:40:24
Speaker
that it is necessary to understand what can refill your cup or rejuvenate you or give you a moment of escape, right? And I love that you shared some of what you do for that. Yeah, you know, the thing we didn't talk about, we probably should have talked about, is my take time to think days. Yeah, I was actually thinking about that earlier. You know, and being intentional around, you know, trying to get away internal and
00:40:53
Speaker
I think there are a lot of things when you start thinking about leadership being the best human that you can be, that continual improvement that I'm just a big believer in and really passionate about. And I know, Nathan, you share those same things. So I appreciate you having me on today to be able to kind of talk through and be able to have a little piece of the story, if you will.
00:41:16
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I do, I've always been inspired by your habit that you've created and taking a day set aside just for you to think a journal. So let's end with this.
Leadership Through Strengths and Team Dynamics
00:41:30
Speaker
We ask all of our leaders that we bring into the podcast, is a leader born or is a leader made?
00:41:40
Speaker
I'm going to answer this two ways. You're born with some strengths that you're going to have. There are going to be some things that you have, but I think what makes you a leader is understanding those strengths, leveraging them, and then figuring out how you go get the folks around you to be able to go maximize the impact. If we had a whole bunch of folks at Finessek that were just like me, this place would be a disaster.
00:42:06
Speaker
It would just not function. It wouldn't work. We wouldn't be able to execute. Really, when I think about that scenario, you've got to have people around you. I think there are things that you're born with that are strengths that are critical for you to lean in and figure out what those are. Everyone's a little different, but absolutely they're made. You have the impact and you have the dynamic of making that steady progress, those baby steps, all those things we talked about through the conversation today.
00:42:34
Speaker
You don't have to go eat the elephant in one bite. What's the one thing you're going to go do today after listening to this conversation that's relevant that you can have to make an impact and make yourself a little bit better? Damn. I love that. Well, Zach, thank you so much. You've been super generous with your time, sharing your own experiences and all the lessons that you've learned. Thank you.
00:43:00
Speaker
I appreciate you having me and look forward to future conversations, and I appreciate the honor of being on. Thanks, y'all. The research professor and bestselling author, Brene Brown, said in her 2010 TED Talk, vulnerability is the birthplace of innovation, creativity, and change.
00:43:27
Speaker
And since then, to Brene's credit, the topic of vulnerability has gained wider acceptance in the workplace. Unfortunately, talking about vulnerability is much easier than living it out, especially as a CEO where weaknesses could be exploited and confidence is king.
00:43:44
Speaker
Zach Duke has taken the harder path. He talks the talk and walks the walk. As you heard in this very interview, I think this is also why Finasek has done so well. They're extracting the full value of the innovation, creativity, and change that comes with embracing vulnerability in the workplace.
00:44:04
Speaker
You might not feel like your workplace is a safe place to reveal your weaknesses, and you might be right. Not every manager or executive has done the deep soul-searching work to create safety around vulnerability. My hope is that you can begin your own journey to find a community where vulnerability is prized. That's where your people are. That's where your true potential can come alive.
00:44:28
Speaker
I'm so grateful for listeners like you. Talking with leaders like Zach Duke is one of my great privileges, and it's amazing that I can share these conversations with you. We've linked to Jack Carr's author page in the show notes, as well as the Enneagram and Strength Finder websites.
00:44:45
Speaker
You've been listening to Builder, Banker, Hacker Chief, a podcast produced and distributed by Zsuite Technologies Incorporated, All Rights Reserved. I'm your host, Nathan Baumeister, the CEO and co-founder of Zsuite Tech.
00:44:59
Speaker
This show was co-produced, written, edited by Zach Garver. Sound engineering was done by Nathan Butler at Nimble Wit Productions. If you enjoyed the episode, please take a moment to leave us a review or share the episode. This helps other people to find our show. You can also listen on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, and Spotify.