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Steve Robert – Solving puzzles not mysteries, sweeping floors, and moving from the engine room to the bridge | Episode 16
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Welcome to episode fourteen of Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief! Joining me today is Steve Robert, Co-Founder and CEO of Autobooks.
On this show, I’m unpacking the stories, decisions, and influences that make people successful leaders. Steve has always had a strong drive to succeed, whether that was jumping into the workforce at the earliest opportunity or teaching himself how to write code. Today he’s still got that same ambition, it’s just tempered by a deep understanding of the difference between building fast and burning out.
My name is Nathan Baumeister; I am the Co-founder and CEO of ZSuite Tech and the host of this podcast.
Steve grew up in Detroit at a time when it’s economy was heavily dependent on the big automakers. Either you worked directly for the big three or you worked at a supplier for the big three. His father worked as a plant manager for one such supplier. It was there that Steve forged his indomitable work ethic, gained hard skills like driving a forklift and the knowledge that he didn’t want to work in a factory forever.
Eventually he made his way into IT and taught himself to code. That him to co-found a company known as Billhighway, an early fintech company that launched only a year after Paypal.
After a successful exit from Billhighway Steve could have stepped back from entrepreneurship and lived comfortably. That wasn’t in Steve’s nature as a leader. He felt a strong desire to create new opportunities for others, sending the elevator back down so to speak.
He founded Autobooks in 2015 and the company has enjoyed rapid growth, multiple awards, and consistent recognition as a leader in the fintech industry.
While Steve doesn’t take apart VCRs or troubleshoot broken software tools anymore, he’s gathered a talented team that is transforming the way banks and credit unions serve their business clientele. Together they’re building a company that is solving real-world problems with advanced technology.
Momentum for the Starship Autobooks is approaching warp speed and this episode is your opportunity to hear about from its captain firsthand.
Resources:
Steve’s recommendations:
Book: Adventures in Contentment by David Grayson.
Also available for free from the Gutenberg Project.
Connect:
Recommended
Transcript
The Power of Mindset in Problem-Solving
00:00:00
Speaker
And I remember thinking to myself, well, you know, in my past, I'd just go to my manager, I'd escalate or I'd call somebody for support, but there was no support. So I go to Vince and I'm like, I've gone as far as I can. This thing's dead. It's not working. I don't know what to do. And I'll never forget, he looked back at me, he's like, well,
00:00:16
Speaker
I can't fix it. Like, you're the IT guy. So if you can't fix it, like, what do I need you for, basically? And I just remember, like, leaving that exchange thing like, there's no escalation. There's there's no, nobody here that's responsible for fixing this besides me. So ah back at it, I go and, you know, and then I don't remember how long it took days, probably. And then finally, you got it working. And it was like this huge event mouse. I don't know what the word was, but it was like,
00:00:47
Speaker
It cast a shadow, I think, for everything I did after that, which was every problem is solvable if you put the right amount of effort and time and you know energy against it.
Introduction to the Podcast
00:01:04
Speaker
Hi, my name is Nathan Baumeister, and you're listening to Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief. A podcast where executives from the world of finance and technology share the story of how they got where they are and the decisions that made them who they are.
00:01:19
Speaker
I'm looking for hidden moments of truth and sacrifice, wisdom and folly, and what it's like to navigate the treacherous waters at the helm of a growing company. I want to do all that so that together we can learn from their journey and use that insight personally and professionally.
Meet Steve Robert: A Leader in Tech and Finance
00:01:38
Speaker
In episode 16, my guest is Steve Robert, co-founder and CEO of AutoBooks, a company that enables bank and credit unions to offer payment and accounting tools for small business owners. Steve Robert is the kind of leader who likes to pull things apart to learn how they work. Although he built his first company, Bill Highway, on 100-hour work weeks of pure grit, he's learned to lead with his heart, not just his hands.
00:02:04
Speaker
He's got the know-how to build a tech stack and the people skills to keep his team focused on the highest value work. He also makes time to cook pancakes for his kids on the weekend. Steve's second company, AutoBooks, is attacking problems that every business owner has lost sleep over, and they're making that solution look easy.
00:02:24
Speaker
As a self-described technical founder, Steve eventually discovered that the toughest challenges he faced as a leader were actually people problems, not technology problems.
Transitioning to Leadership: People Over Technology
00:02:35
Speaker
The transition from chief engineer to chief executive is something that marks Steve as the rare sort of leader who operates fluently in both domains.
00:02:45
Speaker
Whether it's raising money, unraveling the code base, or assembling a crew of supremely talented people working on an audacious mission, Steve brings an unflappable demeanor and bottomless generosity.
00:03:00
Speaker
As a personal friend and mentor of mine, Steve Roberts' appearance on episode 16 of Builder Banker Hacker Chief gives me deep joy. There is so much richness in this conversation. You're going to need a forklift to take it all with you.
00:03:23
Speaker
Well, Steve, I can't tell you how grateful I am for you joining us today on Builder Banker Hacker Chief. Yeah, thank you. Excited to be here. you know it's um
00:03:36
Speaker
I don't know if you know this because I don't haven't really shared this with you, but you've been such a fantastic mentor for me as I've been growing my own company. and i'm just I'm just thrilled ah that we can have this conversation, but this time record it so I'm not the only beneficiary of it. so Thanks for being willing to do so. Well, that's very kind, happy to do it. and As you know, it it takes a village to do what we do and I've been lucky enough to assemble.
00:04:00
Speaker
A lot of folks in in our little business that I learned from every day, so hopefully somebody listening can take something away that's helpful. Yeah, there is no doubt. I think a lot of people think of the idea of a leader as kind of being in the the the the lone wolf leader or kind of like the the the captain that leaves
Mentorship and Leadership Dynamics
00:04:17
Speaker
from the front. But the more and more you get into it, the more it's like that's not the way it works at all. It's about the group of people that you bring together. Really is.
00:04:28
Speaker
as As we look at your journey of being where you are, very, very successful entrepreneur, already had a fantastic exit, working on your second ah big company, ah having ah tons of traction in the marketplace, when now with the hindsight that you have.
00:04:51
Speaker
as where you are, when you look back to the beginning of your journey, so you know, high school, a younger kid, what are some of the things that now you can look back and you're like, man, that had an outsized impact on helping me become the leader that I am?
Early Life and Work: Curiosity and Ambition
00:05:08
Speaker
Oh, good question. I think when I was young, I think like some of your other, ah you know, sessions, there there was um a desire and ambition that I probably couldn't,
00:05:21
Speaker
describe at the time. um I always had a curiosity and drive. I was i had an ability to be just an innate hard worker um that inherited a strong work ethic. And while school in academia wasn't necessarily my calling, I found everything outside of school um to provide an opportunity to learn and kind of feed my curiosity. So I was just really taken back at you know various opportunities, little jobs from my first job at a local restaurant as a bus boy you know when I was 13 years old. And using that just as a stepping stone from busing tables to waiting tables to being in a line cook. And I did that all while I was like 14, 15, 16 years old. um
00:06:13
Speaker
And just, you know, what came unlocked more and more my world just kept getting bigger and bigger. um Having never traveled much as a kid, my world was pretty small. And I think looking back, I just kind of had this ferocious appetite for trying to understand how things worked, when I was dropped in situations, try to best understand them and then try to advance myself, you know, relative to what each opportunity could could present, you know, for my learnings or career advancement, so to speak.
00:06:44
Speaker
they Well, it's interesting. I don't think I've ever heard of someone at a restaurant that went from busboy to waiter to then cook. So typically you're like either front of the house or back of the house. There's something there. what I'm curious, what drew what what drove that transition? Because like I said, you typically don't see that.
00:07:04
Speaker
And I wonder if it's a foreshadowing of things to come for you. I think it could be in in the sense that like, so little opportunities like this is a small, you know, greasy spoon diner, right neighborhood place. And I remember, you I think he had to be 14. And, you know, I, I misrepresented myself on my application being a little older than I was, because I really wanted to start start making money. And yes, I started as a busboy.
00:07:29
Speaker
just running up and down. I got to the point I knew people walking in the door, what kind of coffee they like. And I was always trying to be you know one step ahead of expectations. And then I think you know when the opportunity to present itself to you know kind of take a ah a step toward you know and another role that I saw could you know potentially better position me, I became a waiter and um that was dealing with people. And I'm sure you know It's a wonderful job for a young person to have to interact with people. They're not always pleasant and you learn a ton. You have and ah a lot of respect for that you know profession and and just you know trying to put yourself in that customer's shoes and be empathetic. um The cooking thing was probably the odd one out. And again, I think I hate to say it this way, but there's this kind of like, um
00:08:13
Speaker
in the restaurant industry, there's there's this hierarchy, you know, at entry level as a busboy and a dishwasher. And then, you know, maybe you work your way up to a hostess or maybe a waiter and then the cooks or the chefs were always kind of perceived as, um you know, making it those are those are the guys behind the wall that did all the important stuff that the customers really, really valued. So to me, it was probably just trying to work my way into the inner circle of what that little business did and try to prove to myself and you know to them that I had what it took to you know kind of progress and in that small world.
Real-Life vs. Formal Education
00:08:51
Speaker
I learned a ton, and each one, I'm still on Sunday mornings, make my kids omelets and eggs, and ah I often will throw back to my early days as a line cook as that experience that allows them to eat so good on Sunday morning.
00:09:05
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. we have a We have a Sunday morning tradition where I always make pancakes as well. So it's it's it's it's fun to be able to do that with the with family, but it also sounds fun that you're able to tie that back to you know how you got started as a job. Another thing that you touched on a little bit was ah kind of in your early days, you felt like the thing that really motivated you or got you excited or where you had your most learnings were outside of the traditional classroom.
00:09:33
Speaker
Um, so hands on real life stuff rather than what was going on in school. And I think there's a big conversation going on right now about, you know, traditional learning models. Does it really make sense for everybody? Uh, getting a college degree, especially as you look at how much it costs as compared to, you know, what benefit you're going to get from it. I'm just curious, you know, first how you kind of fit into that model. Um,
00:10:02
Speaker
back when you were growing up and versus like what advice you'd give for leaders right now that are trying to develop themselves or even those that are, you know, have kids that they're trying to mentor as well. It is very different today. I remember as a younger person feeling like there were the haves and the have nots and um a college education was was a pretty important, um you know, stepping stone that would unlock your your career and and and take you to a better place. And ah unfortunately, that wasn't um something that I had access to. It wasn't something my my parents never went to college. It it wasn't and well understood, and Candley wasn't available to me in an obvious way um you know growing up. And there's no question um being in technology had afforded me you know an ability to you know build a career and and provide myself for myself without
00:11:00
Speaker
you know, a dependency on a diploma, per se. But I will admit in the early years, it was hard. And I feel like this used to be a pretty sensitive topic for me, I would hide away. You know, when you meet new people at a conference or in a professional setting, the first question was always like, Where'd you go to school?
00:11:17
Speaker
and I used to just absolutely hate that question because I didn't have a good story. And and you could just see people's reaction to that, again, 10, 15 years ago, not generally a good one, like, oh, wow, well, it was, you know, the the conversation would, you know, kind of change after you kind of tell them you didn't go to college. um So that was a tricky one to navigate, it candidly, you know, for a while. But i to your point, I think,
00:11:40
Speaker
um We are in a different era. I don't think college is for everyone. That said, I very much want to be in a position to send my kids to college, because in a weird way for me, again, I'm on the outside looking in, you guys probably have a different perspective, and and you draw you know from that degree and experience differently than I would. But to me, it's about the experience and um having an opportunity to be ah independent,
00:12:08
Speaker
um demonstrate through your own devices how you excel or don't in in in that type of setting. I think there's just some character building aspects that kind of come along with those formidable years that with all due respect, I put more emphasis on than the actual certificate or you know degree or classroom education per se. um so I wish I would have been
Steve's Career Path: Manufacturing to IT
00:12:31
Speaker
able to have that experience. um Is it a regret? No. But do I want to provide my children that opportunity? Yes.
00:12:37
Speaker
And um I think it just becomes ultimately a very personable or personal question, Nathan, around, um you know, does the individual stand to benefit? And at what cost like, you know, kind of from a, you know, risk reward, like, it is expensive, is it gonna guarantee you success? Absolutely not. um And I think I do align with candidly some of the challenge I think people are putting on the academic institutions being of a transactional nature, the high cost. um And following like Mike Rowe in the ah ah Dirty Jobs um
00:13:19
Speaker
actor, he's calling um degrees now receipts for your time at school. um He's obviously got a biased point of view on like skilled trades and, you know, blue collar job that don't necessarily require college education. So um I think it really takes time to unpack what the individual is trying to obtain. um But I think there's something we said about the experiences. And I think it's, if you have the opportunity I would imagine, you know statistically speaking, most people would say they're happy they had it.
00:13:50
Speaker
go into what eyes wide open, you know, maybe even consider that time um to take a year or two off, which it used to be frowned upon, because it's hard to go back to school. But I tend to interact with a lot of folks that go back for maybe an executive MBA or something, after starting their work career, they tend to get more out of it, from my experience, you know, they kind of go back and they really are very thoughtful with the rigor they they, you know, embark on. And again, I think there's no one size fits all, unfortunately.
00:14:17
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think, you know, it's kind of fun. I bet I'm not sure if you grew up reading the Choose Your Own Adventure novels, but I know I always enjoyed that where it came to a point you could kind of make your own decision of which way to go. But there are specific paths, right? And um which which which one, which one you could follow. I love the point that you brought up of the at least for your kids, when you think of the value that they could get from kind of higher education. Sure, there's knowledge, but there's lots of ways to get knowledge. In fact, we're going to share, um you know, through your conversation, the the different ways that you went and got that knowledge to end up as a CEO and founder of ah technology companies in the banking ecosystem. um But it's more about experience.
00:15:00
Speaker
like ah a little bit of life on training wheels a little bit sometimes, right? Like you're not fully on your own, but you are on your own so you can start to figure out what it is that what it means to kind of manage life, um build friends outside of your your typical structure. And as someone who did get their ah executive and MBA after working, on And actually doing it while working i gotta tell you there was it was the coolest experience to be able to learn something in the classroom. And then that same day go to work and apply in. Like it was it was super powerful.
00:15:40
Speaker
I love it, and I've heard this a number of times, family and friends, and and just even that case study that, again, as a younger person, you're like, why am I learning these things? But as, you know, somebody a little after your career gets started, you you start to appreciate the decisions that go into understanding, you know, the rigor, the rationale around all these things um that our society uses to make progress. um So yeah, it's i it's a cool thing. And I've even contemplated going back just for the sake of it, for nobody other than myself,
00:16:10
Speaker
And unfortunately, I keep starting businesses and they consume a lot of my time. Yeah. Well, let's start talking about that path. So you entered the workforce at a fairly like young age while you're going to school, um working at the restaurant and stuff like that. But when you started, when you actually stepped full time into kind of the working part of your life, where did you start?
00:16:35
Speaker
Um, so I remember, so my dad was, um, plant manager. So my background grew up in Detroit Metro area in Michigan. So it's a pretty blue collar, very automotive part of town manufacturing, you know, um, tool and die. So if you didn't work directly for the big three, yeah it was not uncommon to work for a tiered supplier. It just in, you know, the eighties nineties and early 2000s dominate the industry.
00:17:00
Speaker
My dad was a ah a plant manager for a tier three automotive supply supplier, which is just a fancy way of saying we did you know some prep work before it made its way to the official assembly lines. I remember in high school, my co-op job, which was you can leave school to go work part-time. I took a job with my dad and I stayed with that job after high school for a few years. But back then, if you might remember anything,
00:17:29
Speaker
Jobs were posted in the paper. and And I remember going to the the Sunday paper and thinking, I'm going to be working in manufacturing. So I started circling all these jobs. And and I basically cherry picked all these skills from all these different jobs and tried to put them into one role, tell my dad, I wanted to be a KED-CAM engineer. I wanted to learn how to drive high-low. I wanted to do shipping and receiving and inventory. And he looked at me like, what are you talking about? like I'm grabbing 20 different things from 20 different fields and I'm trying to mash them all together into one thing because I'm thinking,
00:17:59
Speaker
how can I compress the learnings? Because if all these things are individually successful, certainly they'd be more successful if I brought them all together. So long-winded way of saying he took me on starting um you know running a floor sweeper, and you pushing you know ah equipment around the manufacturing floor, which then, again, because of my you know tenacity, I convinced him to teach me how to drive a high low, which then taught me how to drive tractor trailers in and out of shipping dock. So it wasn't the most glamorous, but you know, as a 17, 18 year old kid.
00:18:36
Speaker
um you know, you it was a way of making money and learning new things. So I was there for a couple of years and that small company did manage to grow from a few dozen people into a few hundred people. So I got a front row seat watching my dad run this business and me kind of being that annoying kid that was always looking for something to do. Instead of that environment, generally people were, you know, doing what they had to do, get in and out of work and go home to their priority. I was I was just there all the time because my dad was there. So I learned a ton, saw um the growth of that business unfold right in front of my eyes and just wanted to benefit or learn something, you know, at each one of those steps. But it was also there that I realized long-term manufacturing wasn't for me. So I was very lucky in that sense to figure that out at a young age, because like you do meet people that are halfway through the careers, having regrets that they didn't try new things. And for me, it was,
00:19:30
Speaker
Um, it was just a tough love environment. There, there were no good mornings. There were no good jobs. It was always something's broken. You know, um, you know, this is late. It was always just this kind of glass half empty kind of environment. Um, so that was my first environment, drew a lot from it, but most importantly realized that it wasn't the place long-term that kind of scratched the itch for me.
00:19:52
Speaker
Yeah, well, I love that. There's a couple of things that I took from from what you shared that I'd love to to touch on and maybe hear what you're thinking as well. um One of the most common things that i get is that that I get asked of is to help people with their growth plans.
00:20:08
Speaker
Oh, hey, how can I have this job or how can I have your job or how can I do this or how can I do that? And what I love about the story that you just told, ah which I think does great foreshadowing that ah of the leader that you're going to become is one, you're curious. Two, you researched what skills you might want or might need. And then three, you were relentless in your pursuit of it.
Humility and Courage in Leadership
00:20:31
Speaker
However, you were humble that you still did the grunt work that you had to do to get there. And I think those four things combined is something that I would share with everybody that's looking for a growth plan. It's not on your leader or manager to come up with that. and It's on you to figure out what those things are. It's up to you to be curious. It's up for you to be relentless, but then it's also up to you to accept reality. that it Sorry, i'm not you're not going to be able to learn everything in the next month, and I'm not going to be able to expose you, but this is where you can start, and then we'll see where it goes from there.
00:21:07
Speaker
Yeah, you nailed it. i I wish I could have succinctly said that. um But yeah, I think everything you said is very much foreshadowing a career that um i've I've managed to string together through some degree of humility. Again, everybody says you're you know not afraid to make mistakes. But it's easy to say, and it's hard to kind of expose yourself. And even to this day in meetings, like I'm very comfortable at this stage um drawing attention to things I don't know, in some cases don't understand.
00:21:36
Speaker
because that makes it safe for others to have that type of ability to ask questions if it's, you know, the CEO is willing to be vulnerable. That says a lot that, you know, he doesn't have it all figured out. He's not the smartest guy in the room. And, and that hopefully helps draw out, you know, the best out of others when, you know, the safe, the space is safe enough to expose yourself and in the spirit of learning and and growing.
00:22:00
Speaker
them. So the last thing that that you talked about that you learned as well, that was all fun and good, but this is not where I want to be. So first, you know, talk about a ah step, I think, maybe perhaps into the unknown. I wonder, you know, fear, trepidation, if there's anything there, you know, moving into a completely different area that you nor your family was familiar with.
00:22:21
Speaker
I'm stepping away from a career path that might have been fairly easy for you to follow because you did have that mentor right there right there with your dad. I'm just curious, you know where did you end up going next and was there any fear of trepidation that you had to ah had to work through for that? yeah I think the short answer is yes, and and it's probably different for everybody in the sense of um a lot of people struggle with change, you know a lot of people struggle with the unknown, but I think you know kind of back to that entrepreneurial drive, or ambition it's also the thing that kind of feeds you. like there's There's something more and um there's just a willingness to embark on something even though the path forward is unclear. Leaving the blue collar manufacturing environment where I worked with my hands and I was dirty and sweaty and long hours,
00:23:11
Speaker
um But I did start to get exposed to ah technology there. So we were using, again, pretty primitive systems, Lotus 1, 2, 3. And, you know, I think the accounting system was an EDI, Mass 90, like accounting and shipping software. um So i i I felt like there was something there that, again, began to um interest me.
00:23:33
Speaker
and And that kind of led to you know back then building my own computers and that led to taking apart the VCR and you know eventually networking. you know Again, this is kind of early 2000s, pretty formidable as we're going from like token ring to ethernet networks. I was that geeky kid that just wanted to learn how stuff worked. It's not a requirement that you understand how a piece of technology is built in order to make something with it.
00:24:03
Speaker
What I mean by that is there are a lot of software developers who code amazing applications but know nothing about designing a CPU or heat management on a motherboard. However, once you pop the hood and investigate the underlying structure, a world of possibilities open up to you. There isn't a substitute for the knowledge you gain from being curious enough to take something apart. This applies to technology and human organizations as well.
00:24:35
Speaker
And um while I didn't know exactly what that was, I felt like there was something there that I wanted to continue to spend time on. And that led me, you know, in many ways to to the next thing, which I use kind of technology as a bridge, you know, from maybe sitting at a desk and doing basic shipping and inventory control management into an office environment where I was beginning to use technology to run business processes, instead of support kind of manual processes, if that makes sense.
00:25:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's super interesting. what When you were doing that learning Lotus 123 for the first time and accounting packages and then building computers and taking apart VCRs, was that but was that always experimental on your own? Because it's not like, I mean, today you have these coding boot camps and you have All of this rich educational content that's pretty much free from universities, from on YouTube, from Khan Academy, like there's so many resources that if someone wants to explore these things, they can find them. But that didn't really exist back then. So I'm just curious kind of how you took that path of learning and exploration um as you were building out those skills.
00:25:42
Speaker
Yeah, there's wonderful resources available today. um For me, I didn't have much of a budget. So, and you know, back then, when you're building your own computer, you're buying motherboards, and you're buying, nothing was plug and play. And I remember, you know, going to, you know, flea markets, where there was like computer expose, and, you know, you could kind of haggle around cost and and trade, you know, maybe something old for something new. And, and it was just this kind of like way to, you know, upgrade yourself,
00:26:12
Speaker
and um book swaps and things like that, that again, the internet, we were still on, you know, dial up modem back then. So there wasn't a rich experience for learning. um But I remember like rocks books, and yeah these are programming books. And I was that, you know, kid that would go, you know, um and feel content reading a programming Bible, you know, from cover to cover, because There was like something exciting on the next page that I couldn't wait to learn and then go apply. you know so I tinker and then I go learn something and I go apply it. and you know That kind of got me into networking, which was like Windows 3.5 and 4.0. That at the time was like um office back office, um you know Windows software for for server environments. I had a lot of time on my hands. and you know I would come across these materials and um you know
00:27:05
Speaker
try to learn and apply. And it was just that feedback loop. And, you know, back then flash, I taught myself flash. And it was like this, in hindsight, it all made sense, because they were like little step functions that got me to later and later, higher levels of abstraction and programming. But in the early days, it was like telephony and What happens when you press a button and and to see how a system reacts to that button when you're building ah call trees through you know C++ plus plus and managing memory? It was just really very interesting to me as a as a younger person.
00:27:38
Speaker
Yeah. Well, the other thing that i I love with what you just shared is as though there wasn't, you know, it maybe wasn't as efficient connecting with other people. You still found communities that were willing to share information, books and talk about things and, you know, everyone's experimenting on their own and they would come together at flea markets or whatever and be like, Oh, hey there's this and maybe Oh, you need maybe this book and stuff like that. I think this, ah this human nature to satiate curiosity has always existed.
00:28:07
Speaker
And it's been as a system not as an individual. like like Like people work together to drive towards progress and fulfill in that and and that curiosity. So as you were jumping into this IT world, kind of going from blue collar to white collar, um as you were making that transition, I'm curious just if there's any stories or impactful events that kind of ah help to kind of feed that need, but also, you know, we're gonna have to make this transition of this blue collar worker to a founder and CEO of software companies.
Entrepreneurial Journey: From IT to Bigger Problems
00:28:47
Speaker
So as you're making this transition from from from that manufacturing world to more of this networking and IT world, and then getting into leadership within that space, I'm just curious as you look back on on some of your event life events, you know what might be impactful that that you look back on now?
00:29:05
Speaker
Yeah, so, um you know, a little bit of luck, a little bit of hard work, but in that kind of transition into the white color environment, um I did, you know, manage to leverage what little I learned about technology to get me kind of an entry level, you know, it job again, that was back then networking and firewall management and just getting the but the office to communicate with phone systems and what have you. And, um,
00:29:29
Speaker
There were a couple things there. First, I got introduced to the concept of entrepreneurialism then. This is literally like 1999, 1998. And I remember that time roughly because 401ks were just coming out, but I was too young at the time to participate in one because I think he had to be 21 back then. So I was like this young kid really driven by technology.
00:29:52
Speaker
And I landed at this entrepreneurial company doing some basic IT stuff. And um it was entrepreneur about 125 people, um but they were solving problems through I think words I'd use now like first principles. They, um you know, they weren't operating from some GM playbook with some like corporate structure or system. It was a young company solving problems and, you know, um competing for business through RFPs, which I had some exposure to.
00:30:20
Speaker
winning the business through art of explanation of your value, and then eventually having to deliver it where sometimes I think some of us know you tend to um out kick your coverage relative to your potential when you're a young formidable business. So I had this What are you talking about? None of us. None of us do that, Steve. i Well, back in the 90s, we did this kind of stuff, Nathan. I'm sure now we're all too intelligent for that. But yeah, so it was just, again, I'm this young guy in in an IT support capacity, but it was like, I'm watching these people who I came to respect greatly because of their ambition and and in success, because again, they were making it. And the culture that they had developed was just empowering.
00:31:01
Speaker
And um again, seeing them take the hill and then be responsible for for what they sold and then you know eventually delivered, um you know created some tremendous you know learning lessons. And I think one of the bigger ones that struck me in the IT environment, and this is now probably starting to segue into my last company,
00:31:22
Speaker
So I had, you know, a stint of a couple of years that company got acquired that this this HR tech company that I was at. um But but not without me taking some really wonderful cultural and and entrepreneurial lessons from it. And when it got acquired, the culture changed overnight. And um it was just no longer an exciting you know place that I identified with and wanted to be. And in during that time, I i saw what was possible, which is if I want something and I work hard and and I prepare and and and and put in you know the effort, I could win a big deal and implement a big deal. And and you know and and I started to see the culture of this larger organization is slow relative to its sense of urgency. And and you just kind of had to be a piece of a bigger system. I ah really, really sought that opportunity to be more of an individual contributor and
00:32:16
Speaker
ultimately got connected with my co-founder through the local business community. Again, he was starting a business right out of um college around dues and fees and membership-based things that was like kind of like guys sharing an apartment on a college campus, splitting rent. That was literally the premise and he built it in Excel. He's like, I want to take this online. And I said, well, I didn't learn enough about you know HTML and databases. I can build that for you.
00:32:45
Speaker
And we we we got it off the ground. And then you know he he would sell this capability to bigger and bigger um buyers. And I'd have to figure out how to support a bigger and bigger audience. And I think one of the the lessons for me was um there was no escalation. So when something didn't work, we were using this terrible card software on a desktop back then. And it just stopped working.
00:33:11
Speaker
And I remember thinking to myself, well, you know, in my past, I'd just go to my manager, I'd escalate or I'd call somebody for support, but there was no support. So I go to Vince and I'm like, I've gone as far as I can. This thing's dead. It's not working. I don't know what to do. And I'll never forget, he looked back at me, he's like, well,
00:33:27
Speaker
I can't fix it. Like, you're the IT guy, so if you can't fix it, like, what do I need you for, basically? And I just remember, like, leaving that exchange thing, like, there's no escalation. There's, there's no, nobody here that's responsible for fixing this besides me. So ah back at it, I go and, you know, and then I don't remember how long it took days, probably. And then finally, you got it working. And it was like this huge event, milestone. I don't know what the word was, but it was like,
00:33:58
Speaker
it it cast a shadow I think for everything I did after that which was every problem is solvable if you put the right amount of effort in time and you know energy against it and um yeah, I mean since then it's just like I'm really not intimidated by by much that comes my way because I know if it can be done and um in the end the book stops here so I'm not going to ask anybody else to be responsible for something that I'm not capable of of fixing. And it took a pretty big lesson from that at a pretty, pretty young age to now apply and in much, you know, bigger situations. Yeah. Well, what's interesting to me with that story is there's there's a clear line.
00:34:44
Speaker
within the narrative of your life that ah ah of belief or faith that you can move forward, that you can progress, that there's something more that if I keep digging, like I'll be able to do it. And you know you touched on a couple of leaps of faith that you took from you know the manufacturing to going into IT consulting to now like, home we can start this own thing.
00:35:12
Speaker
and um I love though that the culmination of that was what sounds like a very pivotal point, like from a mindset perspective, where you fully embrace that of not just can I have a career and a job, but any challenge that comes my way is one that I'm going to accept responsibility for and we will work to solve it.
00:35:38
Speaker
what ah What a beautiful story, and and quite honestly, this is one of the biggest principles from leadership development that I've had a hard time talking to people about. It's hard to put in words. It's easy to look back at at those formidable you know events and decisions you make, but yeah, I think you're correct. i mean Taking personal accountability, having an internal driver ambition,
00:36:04
Speaker
and And then, you know, come to the realization that you you eventually do need others to deliver upon something, you know, outsized and and to create an environment that allows um them to learn and grow and make mistakes just as we are as young people figuring it out. um But the collective capacity when that entire organization believes they're invincible.
00:36:31
Speaker
It's not enough to have personal drive and ambition, because there's no way you can work enough hours or solve enough problems by yourself to succeed. You need to bring together a team of people who are also willing to say, I will take ownership for whatever problems we encounter, even if they seem insurmountable.
00:36:50
Speaker
Creating this ownership mentality in a broader team is difficult. The leader has to be willing to let go and the new leaders may be uncomfortable stepping up. It's scary and mistakes will happen. As leaders, we encourage this ownership, but we can't force it. It's a bit like King Arthur's sword in the stone. No one could remove it on his behalf. He had to be ready to grasp it on his own.
00:37:18
Speaker
you you surround yourself with really smart, motivated, capable people. I think the old adage of you know you're the the average of the five people you spend the most time with or something to that effect um just really stuck with me as ah as a young person. I wanted to be you know constantly in a room of smart, motivated people because I'm constantly learning little things and then hopefully in some capacity contributing And um yeah, being able to draw from all those little wins that begin to compound when the team starts to have enough tenure working with each other, it's kind of like being a musician or maybe ah an athlete where you know where other people are on the floor when you're passing the puck or, you know, again, playing music together, you just hit an organizational rhythm, and you can count on one another, you know how they're going to behave when ah the situation gets difficult, or, you you know, when when there's an important prospect, or again, all these things that
00:38:11
Speaker
coming our professional lives when you've got a team that you've worked with over the years that um you trust and they trust you. um it's It's a pretty powerful thing. Damn. It's something that we should all strive for right in our and our working environments and you know maybe if you don't have it, you know how can you be the start of it? right How can you be that catalyst to kind of create that culture?
00:38:40
Speaker
And so just to that point, you touched on a little bit that ah prior to founding this company, ah and i I believe the name of that company is Bill Highway, the the first one that you co-founded. Before doing that, you'd mentioned culture and how it just automatically shifted right when it was acquired and was no longer a place that fed you, wasn't a place that you wanted to do those things. And it sounded like you've done you did quite a bit of work on kind of pulling apart how that company worked and how you could drive business, not just do the business um and applying it now where you're ah founding Bill Highway. With all of that, how do you strike the balance between this confidence ah that you're talking about and belief that, you know, anything can be accomplished with the right people um with the mindset of learning and humility?
00:39:38
Speaker
Yeah, um as a technical person, I will say I probably struggled with that um as a as a younger person. Again,
00:39:51
Speaker
technology and engineering, you know, you tend to think pretty highly of yourself, you solve problems that most people don't understand. And, you know, sometimes you communicate and you can see it in their face, they have no idea what you're talking about. And um it's, it's powerful when you hold the power to make progress and other people are dependent on it. So I think as a young person being, you know, thoughtful around you know organizing an environment of UN n and other technical people to to solve real business problems, but then not um be afraid also to show some humility. um that that was ah That was a challenge, to be honest with you. I did you know i think the people that worked with me younger as a younger person saw me as a very hard charging, very high standard, like
00:40:43
Speaker
everybody was expected to be at a 303 level. um It was a very sink or swim, figure it out. Like if I can do it, you can do it. And um I think as you know, I matured and and frankly, my partners gave me feedback as well. Again, you build enough time and rapport with people, they can kind of call out your blind spots or or support you in loving ways because they want you to be successful. While also saying, hey,
00:41:13
Speaker
this isn't the best way to get that done. Or let me offer you a perspective that maybe you didn't have. um So after, you know, time and time again of um you know, candidly, probably pushing people too hard, only to have the work fall back on your plate, because naturally, you can do it better than others. Or if you want it done right, do it yourself kind of ignorance. um I think finally get to a point like, guys, what we're building is is is too big for heroic efforts anymore, or sole contributors, you have to find a leadership style that allows you to delegate
00:41:48
Speaker
And that, you know, embarked on a little bit of of leadership development and, you know, maybe letting a little bit go of my technical roots and embracing a little bit more of the human psychology and leadership, you know, characteristics that I think I've now realized are even more important, you know, candidly than those early technical skills.
Building and Growing Companies: Bill Highway to AutoBooks
00:42:08
Speaker
Yeah, and and did it did a lot of the growth in that particular area for you happen at Bill Highway?
00:42:14
Speaker
I would say so. Yeah, I was a very technical co-founder, built you know architecture, infrastructure, and and scaled it you know largely through heroics. um my My business partners, we each had a sole area of responsibility and technology and infrastructure was mine.
00:42:30
Speaker
um So we did you know scale the team up, but it it was there that I began in the later years to you know begin to understand um the patterns that drove success. And they were not you know just what Steve did, but it was you know the environment I eventually created after failing so many times um that was just like, why is this so hard? Why are we not better than this? Why are we not you know further along?
00:42:53
Speaker
I think you just got to be willing to look at yourself in the mirror and and kind of recognize, well, the reason you're not making you know that the strides you think is is probably not them, it's it's probably you. And you know as as a young company, you can kind of move that responsibility ah a little bit of around through product and engineering and other orgs. So I kind of had others would step up from time to time and and and take the lead on various initiatives and that offered perspective you know to to periodically recognize that, hey, we're the one way to be successful.
00:43:22
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's the problem with blind spots, right? Like if they weren't blind spots, we'd know about them. Yeah. And and I think the other thing that's kind of like a misnomer is the old adage of, um you know, ah find, you know, things that you're not great at and and and work on them. and and And I think I was just too stubborn to accept that because I was always like, I'm not really interested in solving the things I'm bad at. I'm more interested at doubling down on the things that I'm good at. And there's probably some lesson in there somewhere, but I just was very stubborn around like leaning into my strengths and accepting the collateral damage of my weaknesses. And i I've now I think in later years solved it by being fully aware of those weaknesses, and then complimenting them through others, you know, if if if there's an area or skill or characteristic that isn't maybe my highest and best, let's still recognize it, appreciate it and, you know, not um spend time on it. But let's find another venue to ensure that it gets the air time and
00:44:18
Speaker
and in in recognition of the importance it deserves, even if it's not me necessarily doing it. Yeah, absolutely. ah Understanding your strengths, I do think is one of the key right um things for any leader to understand. But the corollary of it is just as true. Understand your weakest points so that you can make sure to compensate in the appropriate so manner, which is like like you said,
00:44:42
Speaker
finding the right people to help. you've You've already shared so many great experiences that you had from learning about the gift of personal accountability and that you get the right people in the right room, you can accomplish anything, you can overcome anything. ah The ability to be willing to look hard at the mirror and pick up on cues going around you to help you understand how you can improve and get better.
00:45:07
Speaker
I'm just curious before we close out kind of this chapter of your life, as you look back at the journey ah that you had within Bill Highway, is there any other stories or you know specific events that you look back on as being very foundational in helping you continue to develop in your leadership journey? you know I think um you know building a business in some ways is is kind of like building a house. you You have all these grand ambitions of what you want,
00:45:35
Speaker
And then eventually you come to the realization of there are constraints, um limitations, whether it's budget, resources, skills. And um you're eventually left with the best you can do. And um if you've got a builder or or subcontractors and in in a house example, um you you make concessions. And oftentimes what ends up happening is is you overcompensate for um maybe experiences you had in the past. So I've said another way. Maybe your starter home had a small ah mudroom, or maybe you didn't have a walk-in closet, and then you tend to build your next house. and You overcompensate for those things because they were you know so impactful. I take this as both a warning and a piece of encouragement. The warning is that people tend to overemphasize negative experiences. Unless we're thoughtful about each iteration of what we're building, we lose focus because we're working so hard to avoid repeating a mistake or trauma.
00:46:35
Speaker
The encouragement is that each iteration is a new opportunity to improve and make things better. When you practice forgiveness for past mistakes and double down on the practice of constant improvement, life and business will surprise you in the best way possible.
00:46:55
Speaker
in In business, I found that to be similar where you know we had built the highway and we had grown and and and we had a lot of folks that contributed to that. And then um I saw that largely as a proving ground that if if you're so smart, and if you can build a culture, and you can build value, and and be lucky enough to build a product that others are willing to pay for, then um you know, do it because it sounds easy. um When it turns out it's it's it's quite hard, um because there's just so many external factors
00:47:30
Speaker
that that affects success. And um when you do find an ability to be successful, um you want to replicate you know that. So translation with audiobooks, we're definitely trying to draw from some of the characteristics that helped us be successful in in that environment, but then apply those skills in a way that helps us attack a much, much bigger market um and dropping the collective of wisdom. And in in some cases, even the team that I mentioned earlier, like when when you do have the luxury of working with the same people over extended periods of time, and you can create an environment for everybody to be successful. And they don't feel they need to leave the organization to go find success elsewhere. um That's a really powerful formula. So it's kind of like when once you sold your first business,
00:48:19
Speaker
you learn a lot. With all due respect, most companies that get bought are bought by professional firms, M and&A, private equity, it's their job, frankly, to take advantage of a company, because they know how to exert leverage and, you know, and and most people that sell only ever sell one business. So the ability to draw from that experience, kind of like again, building house one to house two, you can then bring all those experiences with you and and and some of those maturities to to to try to you know create an environment that's even more ideal, leveling the playing field a little bit relative to the value you're looking to create. And again, um you know doing it with with you know people you've got a track record or experience working with helps in in many ways de-risk that opportunity. So I think long-winded way of saying just, yeah you know
00:49:09
Speaker
if you're lucky enough to have success, you almost owe it to yourself to try it again. And, you know, put your hand, um you know, ah you know, behind another endeavor, because there's so many lessons that you draw from that that you don't appreciate in the moment that you'll draw upon for for many, many years.
00:49:31
Speaker
Yeah. And in in the end, is that what drove you to do it all over again? and Because lots of times there you and I both know a lot of founders and entrepreneurs and to build a company for 15 years or a decade or however much. the The sacrifice that goes into it, it's extremely difficult, the ups and downs, the risks and all that stuff. So lots of times when you have a successful exit, a lot of people don't want to touch it again.
00:49:58
Speaker
ah But you jumped right back into it. So what what was the driver? Was it that you felt like ah you had more to prove or that you had lessons that you wanted to apply or you know what was that that that drove you to continue on this journey of entrepreneurship? Yeah, Nathan, I wish wish I had something like super profound that you know everybody would i identify with and and and understand. But I feel like it was just unfinished business. I think we had a wonderful um time, building the highway. And I'll always look back favorably ah of the relationships we built and the impact that we had. And we were serving nonprofits. So there was this you know component of the work that we did making a real and meaningful impact in in the lives. um But again, it kind of goes back to that entrepreneurial journey of like, I always wanted to gravitate to bigger and bigger problems to solve.
00:50:49
Speaker
And I always kind of saw the highway as a stepping stone. It was kind of like a proving ground or the minor leagues, for lack of better words. It's like if you can build a business, you know, $50 million, dollars that's that's awesome. But can you build a business to $100 million? Can you build a business to a billion? I don't know. Like, what's what's the upper bound of your potential? So I think the real answer to your question is is just pushing the upper bound of potential.
00:51:11
Speaker
And um ideally, you know being able to to do that with a ah team that you enjoy doing it with, it it doesn't really feel like work anymore. So with Understood, we're younger guys, riding off into the sunset sounds great, but there's certain character types that I think we represent that it would be very hard to play golf and build a deck I don't know, do do things that retired people do at our age. So I feel like there's a need to contribute to society, solve hard problems. And I've been lucky enough to to have some experiences that might be able to be applied to today's, you know, challenges. And I've been lucky enough to get trusted by others that want to join me in these endeavors. So it's almost like an obligation, you know, versus a selfish desire to go
Assembling Teams and Leadership Insights
00:52:04
Speaker
do something. It's like,
00:52:06
Speaker
I've got tools that deserve having an outlet and I've got resources that are hungry to to work in an environment that doesn't suck. So you know how do you point that the smartest, most capable people you know at the biggest, hairiest problem that you can you know wrap your arms around and try to go find investors that are willing to fund, you know, this endeavor, um so that you could do something outsized. and And that's different for everybody, whether it's, you know, leaving a legacy, I do believe all the books will be and already has become, you know, quite successful. And there's still so much more success that's possible. And where, you know, um it ends, we'll we'll see. But um I think as long as you're enjoying it, it doesn't feel like work. And um
00:52:51
Speaker
you know If you've got investors in a board that supports you and and a team that um enjoys the environment, um I hope to be doing this for a long time.
00:53:02
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. um
00:53:07
Speaker
That could everybody find things that they can do that doesn't seem like work, which doesn't mean that you look for things that like, well, I think a lot of time people think that that means that you don't do hard things. I mean, um I think all of us in order to grow, literally to grow, you have to be challenged. Like there's no way to grow unless going through hard things.
00:53:27
Speaker
um But you're doing it with people that you care and love about, love people that you want to do it with, with people um that can drive you to to do better than you could do on your own. I just I love that. So thank you for sharing that. Yeah, thank thank you. And I think maybe I did.
00:53:46
Speaker
ah try to say it another way. I think when when you're lucky enough like us to have the opportunity to meet um folks in this industry that they truly do care um and have all these great, great skills, not the hardest thing is like assembling them. I kind of feel like our job is to create like an all-star roster.
00:54:05
Speaker
And the the best people want the biggest, hairiest problems to work on. So so keeping them pointed at at a very hard problem that is solvable. these We're talking about puzzles, not mysteries. And then watching that team have those moments of breakthroughs and progress and and success, there's really you know nothing greater in my experience. and and And again, just the hard part is keeping that team together.
00:54:30
Speaker
because everybody's journey and pace in the race is a little different. But if you can keep an all-star team together, incented and motivated um around really, really hard problems, um I think that's what it's kind of all about for me. Yeah. And by the way, you just gave me, I think, one of my favorite phrases I've heard in a long time. Give them puzzles, not mysteries. I i love i love the intent ah of of that particular phrase.
00:55:00
Speaker
All right, so you had a successful exit. started auto books. You've now been on that journey for quite a while. And I mean, just ah for anyone that doesn't hasn't followed auto books. I mean, just one of the most innovative business models in the banking technology space um that again was ahead of its time, just like in the many of the things that you did with ah Bill Highway and ah leading the way in innovative business models, all that stuff. I'm i'm curious
00:55:32
Speaker
The second time around, are there things that you have learned about yourself or about leadership that surprised you? I mean, by the time you stopped start auto books, you had been through so much and you've had so much personal development. I'm just curious now the second time as you've gone around, what are some new tidbits that his have added to your your your toolbox?
00:55:53
Speaker
Yeah, I would say the first time around for me, um again, as a ah younger person before being married and having kids, you you had a lot of times so we worked a lot of hours. It was not at all uncommon to work 100 hour weeks for months on end because that you lived at the office and there was a culture that did that as a young person. This time around, um you know, we're all a little bit older, a little bit, you know, wiser.
00:56:15
Speaker
in and you try to work a little bit smarter. So um some of the surprising things, um so we never raised any outside venture capital with our last business. So it was truly a bootstrap, will it to happen? And you could only grow commensurate to the resources that we were afforded where I knew building auto books was going to be um much bigger, much harder and require much more capital because I had to attract talent that was going to be expensive to to do what we wanted to do, which is build something very large and and scalable in a very difficult regulated you know complex industry that is banking as as you know. So there's certainly no um you know free launch or or easy way to build a business.
00:56:58
Speaker
But I think when you're building enterprise businesses, particularly with banking and payments and accounting, this isn't the sexiest part of the industry you know to be working. So so um you have to find a way to persevere in challenging, complex enterprise sales cycles. So you have to be built for that.
00:57:16
Speaker
And I think um it bucks the status quo a little bit about startups and fail fast. that That's not a luxury you have in this industry. um You need to build slow, ah build credibility, deliver value, and outlast through will and determination.
00:57:35
Speaker
So to answer your question, I think the things that have surprised me is it isn't at all about the technology, which I probably began to know a little bit at the end of my my last endeavor, the the appreciation for solving business problems, not technical problems. And I think in our industry, the same is true, which is the technology is the easy part. Raising money is very difficult. um Trying to you know build a culture and and retain and attract you know the the the best talent possible is is difficult. And you know um navigating a business through COVID and you know Black Lives Matter and and a variety of other macroeconomic challenges wasn't something I ever could have predicted or or tried to prepare for. And your team comes to you for answers that you don't have. um you know I think yeah I heard it once, like you know venture capital affords us resources to hire
00:58:30
Speaker
the very best people you can. And when they can't solve the problem, they come to you. So congratulations, you've hired the world's smartest people. And and when they get stuck, they they come to you. So you got to figure it out. That could be really discouraging for young leaders, especially if you recall earlier in the conversation when Steve and I talked about leaning on other people to shore up your weaknesses.
00:58:57
Speaker
After all that effort you put into assembling a capable team, there will be times you still end up facing a Gordian knot. In the legend, Alexander the Great just cuts through the knot with a sword. And sometimes that type of creative divergent thinking is what you need to bring into leadership. I'd be lying if I say there weren't, you know, challenges along the way, a moments of doubt, um you know, whether it was a capital raise or a major partnership or, you know, just a day in the office where you know you had a bad call from you know a business that you you know are doing your best to serve, but the circumstances just didn't yield a good outcome for them. um So I think there's a lot of little lessons in there, but I think you know the one to you know possibly take away is just um being comfortable, you know being uncomfortable because as soon as in our role as the CEO, you think you understand your job,
00:59:54
Speaker
you've reached another inflection point that your job changes. Okay, congratulations, got your Series A done, woo hoo, get back to work. um All right, you landed your first major account, you crossed a million in revenue, all right, you're up to 50 employees, you you got it. But now, you know, again, the expectations just got raised. So I'm still myself, you know, grappling with the role constantly evolving from the builder, you know, like building businesses from zero to one to running them, you know, at at scale. And Yeah, there's still a lot of lessons that i'm I'm learning. And thankfully, we've got a strong community that we can look to each other for for guidance and advice. Yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing that. um Someone shared with me one time that the solution to your current problems oftentimes plants the seed for your next ones. um Just kind of going back to what you were sharing that for every phase of the business,
01:00:50
Speaker
you always need to evolve because the business that you're running now is different than the business you were running 12 months ago. 100%. And I think to take that into a ah ah personal or a cultural one, like you've you've got people that can grow with the role.
01:01:04
Speaker
And then there are people that um the company outgrows, if if if you will. like you know Again, ah ah individual contributors that that are great at at at one job through a few of this company's life cycles may or may not make the trip. And it's not personal. um And you know when people leave and get presented with great opportunities, you you got to wish them well and thank them for their time and service. And you know conversely, um when it's your turn to part ways, you know you do it you know to the best of your ability, but recognizing it's not personal. It's just you know the role um and and challenge that we're facing is is different than it was. and And you got to constantly, especially us, constantly be reevaluating if if we continue to be the right person to take the company to new heights. And you know that's not always an easy question to answer either. Yeah, yeah the last thing that you want to do is ah have someone else be the one that makes you move on. It's always nice to be able to have that time to reflect on your own and ah work through that.
Personal Development and Leadership Evolution
01:02:04
Speaker
So Steve, one of the things that we talked about ah was this idea, especially from Bill Highway to auto books, was moving the mentality of 100 hour work weeks, doing everything you can to make a company work um to actually there's there's balance that should be struck ah between work and things outside of work. And the so the question I have for you is, is when you think about some of that time outside of work, are there things that you can point to that have ended up actually having a big impact in your work? Sure. The two things that strike me about that question draws from my technical background. And I did a talk a while ago about ah moving from the engine room to the bridge. So being highly technical,
01:02:58
Speaker
spending a lot of time as an engineer behind a screen, having to solve technical puzzles, doing a lot of self-help to learn and in in you know solve technical issues. Two, one being in my role now of more of a personal nature, interacting with people and in less screens and in logic. I certainly had to build skills around um managing people, and a lot of that was um I recognized I had deficiencies in communication. ah When you deal with computers for a living, everything's very logical, zeros and ones, black and white, but people recorded a lot more ah empathy and patience and understanding and in my communication left a lot to be desired. So an example of something I did was to participate in Toastmasters. I wasn't great speaking in in front of
01:03:56
Speaker
large settings or or communicating, trying to push my agenda in an articulated way. I was technical enough to bring some credibility into many technical topics, but communicating with people outside of technology, particularly in a business development capacity, a partnership capacity. And then of course, even just from an employee and understanding of creating an environment that people wanted to be a part of ah required me to stretch into some new skills. So I did find public speaking.
01:04:26
Speaker
uncomfortable at first and then you become comfortable and then over time you can learn to enjoy it. And drawing from things like Toastmasters and environments that I was able to do more public speaking to certainly help me grow and be able to read my audience and body language and being able to understand what was landing and what didn't, what went over their heads and where did I have to kind of create feedback loops to get better at as I learned how to communicate with people and the less with programming languages. yeah But the good news is as our so ah civilization evolves and we get more robots, you'll be really good at communicating at both then, right? There used to be an IBM commercial where there's a guy running around, don't disturb you know the computers. and you know The computers were producing all of this output that I used to have an inside joke about because
01:05:23
Speaker
Things are a lot simpler when people aren't involved. But of course, the heights that we all want to accomplish involve the work by many individuals and unlocking their potential is why I think we eventually find us in the roles we're in because there's so much that can be done when you get the entire team focused on a shared outcome and the collective contributions by those groups is really inspiring.
01:05:50
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's great. And pulling on this thread of things that have helped you kind of more on the your personal time rather than business time, if you will, but I would love to hear if you have any recommendations on non-business books. You know, and these types of conversations, I mean, there's so much talk about business books. Like, you could get those recommendations elsewhere. I want to hear from Steve Roberts. What are some non-business books or a non-business book that you would recommend to our audience?
01:06:21
Speaker
spot on. If I looked at my bookshelf, it's littered with business books. And I think so many of us don't spend enough time on it or personal development. But something that was given to me, I would say, at a younger, more impressionable stage of my career, I had a mentor that saw how tenacious I was, how many hours I worked, and said,
01:06:47
Speaker
you really need to do something outside of professional development and career. And he gave me this book and it was written, I want to say in the early 1900s. And it was called Adventures in Contentment. And I read it and it did have a pretty profound impact on me, but it was, I don't know if it's, how do I say, you know, weathered history all that well, because it was written so long ago, but it was, you know, essentially about life being fast paced and, you know,
01:07:17
Speaker
maybe today's day, like the rat race constructs and corporate world, you know, racing to greater heights when there's so much reward to be found in slowing down, appreciating the environment, appreciating the close relationship you have with with friends and family. um So I do draw back on that from time to time when, you know, our persistence tends to wander.
01:07:39
Speaker
push us to greater heights with respect to our career. It is good to be grounded and have folks close to you that can rely on the things that really matter. Yeah. And just another another reason to have mentors in your life, right? I mean, so much times they can pull you out and point out things that you wouldn't see yourself otherwise.
Innate Leadership and Environmental Influence
01:08:03
Speaker
So as we wrap up, we like to ask everybody on the podcast that comes and joins us. In your opinion, is a leader born or is a leader made? That is a really wonderful question and one I'm sure your guests have had awful thoughtful reactions to. Because I think you could have an intelligent conversation and make pretty compelling cases about both sides of that. I can't help but feel by myself instinctually though that leaders are born. And to be clear, I am absolutely a benefactor of being in an environment that gave me great opportunity and and surrounding myself with great people. So there's no question I've grown as a leader through the benefit of others in environments, but I can't help but believe part of what makes true leaders want to do what they want to do is just
01:09:03
Speaker
innate in them, their purpose, their calling, their passion, their comfort. Pushing boundaries is just hard to teach. and And it's hard for you to read and then say, hey, I'm going to go apply that thing and I'm going to go you know disrupt a market or push an idea into reality. You yeah have to be stubborn,
01:09:29
Speaker
and ignorant and and and willing to put yourself at great risk and be willing to fail. and And for so many people, that's really, really hard to do. And I think that's in some ways evidenced by some of the startups I've been in hiring people from industries that were safe and they wanted to chase a dream of joining an early stage venture and and all the glamor we read about in and finding pretty quickly that it's not about that glamor and rarely is that glamor a reality. It's the days that no one's looking that you see the grind and the hardship and the challenge and the lack of resources that really test you as a leader to say, why am I doing this? And it's not the easy way.
01:10:24
Speaker
um And default is not the success, and you really have to have something deep down inside you that compels you to want to do this, and in some respects, thrive in that environment. So a long-winded way of saying, you know without having prepared much for that question, being just instinctually, you have to have something that you're born with to make it worth all the challenges that you have to embark on to really be a successful reader and differentiate yourself from somebody that could maybe have similar success in their career.
Conclusion: Dedication to Solving Big Challenges
01:11:00
Speaker
But that satisfaction can only come from feeling like you put it on, but know your heart and passion, you know, into everything you did. And then hopefully you can look back and feel proud of what you've accomplished, knowing that it was
01:11:16
Speaker
Yeah, I'm still waiting for the glamour to kick in. 15 years into being an entrepreneur, I still haven't found it. ah you Yeah, you have and you know you have because the relationships you've made along the way and in that old adage of like, it's the journey, not the destination, right? Like, yeah, we all want to be able to look back at our careers and think, well, we made a bunch of money and we gave back to our communities and, you know, we raised, you know, a family and hopefully children that are productive in society. But the reality is, is, yeah,
01:11:46
Speaker
We don't stop along the way very often to acknowledge the progress we're making. And there are lots of little wins, but sometimes they're not obvious and they aren't very challenging at times. Yeah. Well, Steve, I can't thank you enough for you ah taking time to chat with me and kind of give all of our listeners the opportunity to learn so much from ah from your experiences.
01:12:11
Speaker
Yeah, thank you, Nathan. I appreciate what you guys are doing with the the podcast and giving people an opportunity to share their experiences and hope people get value from it. So look forward to chatting with you.
01:12:27
Speaker
The professor, priest, and author, Henry Nowan, wrote in his book, The Wounded Healer, the great illusion of leadership is to think that a man can be led out of the desert by someone who has never been there.
01:12:41
Speaker
Nowan's words cut both ways, and life and business were always encountering novel problems and trying to lead our families or teams through to the other side. Even CEOs and presidents experience imposter syndrome. Recognizing this truth helps us to hold space and extend grace to our leaders and to ask for it in return.
01:13:05
Speaker
Steve Robert has obviously been through the desert, so to speak, bootstrapping a company and building unprecedented technology. That doesn't mean he knows how to solve every problem.
01:13:17
Speaker
but it does mean that he has relevant experience and hard-earned wisdom about what to expect on the journey. The crew he's leading at Autobooks is solving some of the hardest puzzles in business banking. There's no bravado or posturing either. Steve's humility as leader belies his ambition and determination to build a great company where talented people thrive. He's come a long way from sweeping floors and busing tables at a greasy spoon diner. Yet, somehow, Steve hasn't lost his willingness to roll up his sleeves and get dirty.
01:13:47
Speaker
His leadership example inspires me, and I know it inspires his team to achieve the impossible. Thanks for choosing Build Your Banker Hacker Chief. As always, your time and attention to the show is an investment that we greatly appreciate. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app for notifications when new episodes are released. You'll find the link to Steve's book recommendations in the show notes.
01:14:11
Speaker
You've been listening to Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief, a podcast produced and distributed by Zsuite Technologies Incorporated, all rights reserved. I'm your host, Nathan Baumeister, the CEO and co-founder of Zsuite Tech. This show was co-produced, written, and edited by Zach Garver. Sound engineering was done by Nathan Butler at Nimble Whip Productions. If you enjoyed the episode, please take a moment to leave us a review or share the episode. This helps other people to find our show.
01:14:40
Speaker
You can listen on all major podcast platforms, including Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, and Spotify. well people