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David Reiling – Surviving the bank robbery epidemic, the gift of respect, and finding a tribe that loves doing good. | Episode 17
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Welcome to episode seventeen of Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief! Joining me today is David Reiling, Chairman and CEO of Sunrise Banks.
On this show, I’m unpacking the stories, decisions, and influences that make people successful leaders.
David may have worked in banking his entire life, but it wasn’t until he was running a bank of his own that he realized he is actually an entrepreneur who happens to enjoy banking. The thread becomes obvious when learn about his passion for creating win-win scenarios and going far outside the walls of the bank to serve his client.
My name is Nathan Baumeister; I am the Co-founder and CEO of ZSuite Tech and the host of this podcast.
A self-described “shy, Catholic, military school kid from Minnesota,” David proved over and over that his willingness to work hard and think differently than his peers would help him achieve great things. He grew up in an ethnic Italian community, swinging a hammer for his uncle’s construction company and even witnessing a bank robbery one summer as a bank teller – that proved to be a formative experience.
After getting his college degree in sunny San Diego, David went to work as a banker in south-central LA and cut his teeth during the infamous bank robbery epidemic of the 1980s and 90s.
He also learned how to navigate the chaotic, diverse, urban core that was and is urban Los Angeles. Whether it was serving a grieving gang member with dignity and respect, or figuring out how to help Taiwanese businessmen spend quality time with their favorite pets, David saw the value in people, no matter their social status or net worth.
That theme continued to play out when he moved back to Minnesota to buy a troubled bank smack in the middle of an ethnic Hmong neighborhood.
That institution is now Sunrise Banks, a certified B-corporation, Community Development Financial Institution, and a beacon of financial support for people of all cultures and backgrounds.
David has so much wisdom to offer on leadership, finding your tribe, and building a mission-driven organization – this conversation is a rare gift. We’re proud to share it with our listeners.
Resources:
David’s recommendations:
Books:
The Psychology of Money: Timeless lessons on wealth, greed, and happiness
Younger Next Year: Live Strong, Fit, Sexy, and Smart – Until You’re 80 and Beyond
Connect:
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief
00:00:00
Speaker
it's a bank. Apparently they get robbed a lot, right? Cause the summer I was there, got robbed twice and now they it seems to get robbed weekly. um And so it just so happened that the, on the third bank robbery, the customer service manager, she, she stepped out and had a smoke.
00:00:14
Speaker
So there was no officer on the floor at the time. And, By this time, though, I knew the FBI agents. I knew what to do. So you lock the doors, you separate the tellers, you you know get the customers um safe and so forth.
00:00:26
Speaker
And you go through this process. And so I really didn't think much of it because I had seen it twice before. And then couple of times during the summer I had participated it. So while I didn't think much of it, the district manager of of the region of First Interstate that I worked in, she's like, well, if you can handle this the way you did with two weeks on the job,
00:00:47
Speaker
you're going to go to a different place. So the next Monday, I was in South Central Los Angeles. And at the time, that was the bank robbery capital of the world.
00:00:57
Speaker
Hi, my name is Nathan Baumeister, and you're listening to Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief, a podcast where executives from the world of finance and technology share the story of how they got where they are and the decisions that made them who they are.
00:01:12
Speaker
I'm looking for hidden moments of truth and sacrifice, wisdom and folly, and what it's like to navigate the treacherous waters at the helm of a growing company. I want to do all that so that together we can learn from their journey and use that insight personally and professionally.
Meet David Reiling: A Banker with a Mission
00:01:30
Speaker
In episode 17, my guest is David Reiling, chairman and CEO of Sunrise Banks, a certified B corporation, community development financial institution, and member of the Global Alliance for Banking on Values.
00:01:43
Speaker
David describes himself as an entrepreneur who also happens to be a banker. even though he's worked in banking for the vast majority of his career. That's just one of many signs that David marches to the beat of his own drum.
00:01:57
Speaker
He's not afraid to take risks, stand up for his values, and zig when the rest of the banking industry is zagging. But it hasn't been a smooth ride by any measure. At one point,
00:02:09
Speaker
David partnered with his father to buy a bank in Minnesota, but the bank had a stack of cease and desist orders an inch and a half thick. That's the banking equivalent of having a glove box filled with unpaid parking tickets.
00:02:22
Speaker
You might still be driving down the road, but if you don't make drastic changes fast, your days are numbered. Today, Sunrise Banks is a shining example of what happens when you combine a passion for business with a commitment to expanding financial opportunity for everyone.
00:02:39
Speaker
David Reiling isn't trying to innovate his way onto the Forbes list of billionaires. He's trying to make a difference for the people who need it most. That's a task that demands unshakable faith and determination to learn from failure.
00:02:53
Speaker
Two characteristics that David has in spades.
Early Life and Influences
00:02:57
Speaker
David is also a delightful storyteller, and we're thrilled that he agreed to appear on episode 17 of Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief.
00:03:06
Speaker
So sit back, close your eyes, and imagine a warm, salty San Diego breeze blowing through your window. Banking school is in session, and Professor David Reiling is about to get started.
00:03:19
Speaker
Well, David, thank you so much for joining me today for Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief. Nathan, great to be with you, and I'm glad I fit into one of those categories. Hey, you know what? I, after getting to know you um over the last couple of months and stuff like that, ah you fit into all four of them. Like very excited to be talking to you Very excited to be capturing some of your stories. I think that myself, as well as everyone listening is is in for a treat and ah a masterclass and ah what's been a really interesting journey for you to become the the the leader and the CEO of your financial institution.
00:03:56
Speaker
Yeah, it has been a journey, that's for sure. Plenty of stories to tell. So I always like to start our conversations with about you know the early childhood years and kind of growing up years. I think that oftentimes we forget how formative that is and kind of defining our paths that we end up with.
00:04:18
Speaker
But it's only in hindsight that we can recognize what perhaps some of those events were. So I'd love to start there. as As you were growing up, now that you can look back and you have the hindsight that you do, are there a couple things that you can really point to that say, man, that had an outsized impact on helping me become who I am today?
00:04:37
Speaker
Yeah, there is. um So I grew up in St. Paul, Minnesota. I'm the youngest of four kids. ah And that had, I think, quite a bit of influence because I think by the time my parents got to me, they were tired, which gave me all sorts of independence. And again, going back several decades, there was a sense of kids had more sense of freedom to roam around and do different things. And I was a fairly curious kid. And so every day was kind of an adventure and an experience to go to go play around.
00:05:13
Speaker
And I would say another aspect of maybe being the youngest and my mom only, you know, having so much time a day to manage kids, ah she picked a sport essentially for me that,
00:05:25
Speaker
was not very expensive. She could leave me there for a long time while she did run, ran errands or move kids from one thing to another. And that happened to be swimming and eventually diving. And that had actually a big influence on me um because I really enjoyed springboard diving.
00:05:44
Speaker
And again, i was left at the pool for a long time. So I was just screwing around. Right. When people say you're going to get your 10,000 hours in, i mean, I spent hours and hours on the diving board because after a while you get tired of swimming.
00:05:56
Speaker
and and And so ah that whole act of swimming and then actually being competitive at a young age in that sport, um I think, quite frankly, really developed my visionary capability.
The Power of Mental Focus and Resilience
00:06:10
Speaker
ah Diving, like a lot of sports, is half or more mental. And the physical part of diving is only one fraction of the second that you spend in terms of actually visualizing it over and over and over in your head.
00:06:24
Speaker
And so that practice of visualizing what the future is going to look like, I think, has definite relevance to my skill sets today. So i'm curious if there's any learnings or takeaways that that you have with going through that when you were so young.
00:06:39
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it it was like a lot of things maybe for me in that it certainly develops a sense of grit um and you have to dig a little deeper and rediscover. And if I he would say there's one kind of passion that I do have is a bit of self-discovery.
00:06:57
Speaker
um Who am I? What am I uniquely good at? What am I not good at? And what are the things that I like and don't? And again, from a person who likes to visualize or plan, all of that comes into play as to what is a successful life and a happy life.
00:07:15
Speaker
And so you kind of go on that journey of, you know, what's your meaning of life and then how do you make it happen? I'll tell you one quick story which gave me, i would say, a clue into the power of the mind.
00:07:25
Speaker
And that was um I was about to have surgery on my ear and like the day of surgery, my hearing came back. and And I was like, oh, um so. But in my little brain as a competitive person, it was, you know what?
00:07:41
Speaker
The preliminary The preliminaries for swimming are like today, this afternoon. And my doctor appointment is like right before this. And so if I can talk the doctor into me just swimming as opposed to diving, because the the the issue was the pressure from the top of the water to the bottom is what yeah you know screwed up my hair.
00:08:00
Speaker
um So yeah, I ended up doing that. And I talked my mom into drive me directly to the pool to sign up for the meet. And now I did well in the preliminaries, but I took second to probably my biggest competitor in that particular race. so And it came to the finals.
00:08:16
Speaker
And again, it was he and I in that space. And I had not been training because I was supposed to be on bed rest and so forth. But I ended up winning and breaking a state record in that event. And it had really nothing to do, I would say, about my physical, but it had to do with the overwhelming mental focus and i desperation maybe to to win.
00:08:36
Speaker
I just needed to claim something back for my own good. But it was really that power of the mind, in my opinion, that you can really almost do anything you want if you set your mind to it and and and really focus on it.
00:08:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. ah And and i what what I think is interesting is that you you could do anything you set your mind to, but you did have a foundation that you built over years and years and years that you were to pull from, even though you weren't perhaps as prepared as you could have been.
00:09:04
Speaker
and that's where that difference of that mental ah mental focus really kind of shaped what you were able to do. I think that's awesome. Yeah, I know. That's very well said. That's very accurate.
00:09:15
Speaker
It's funny, you know, you say maybe a bit of desperation. And i think that's interesting because it's some of the greatest moments in people's lives and maybe even in human history.
00:09:30
Speaker
is driven when people feel like they might be backed in a corner or that they have something to prove or like this idea of being frustrated or desperate or, you know, those types of things. I think in some cases that's viewed as negative, though.
00:09:45
Speaker
So what's the fine line in in your head when those types of emotions of drive, like that desperation is like, I need to win. You know, I'm not able to fulfill this dream that I otherwise wanted to.
Adaptability and Growth Through Experience
00:09:58
Speaker
could drive to a net positive rather than something that pushes you into a net negative. Yeah, that that is a very fine line. And I would have to say that it's someplace along the line of putting that event in perspective.
00:10:13
Speaker
Um, Like me winning or losing that race wasn't going to impact really anybody around me. um It was going to impact me pretty much the most. Or, I mean, obviously my competitor didn't probably care for taking second as opposed to first.
00:10:27
Speaker
But again, not a life changing event. I think when the when the impact around you, because you're so focused on something, is irregardless of others or the environment or something of that nature, it's destructive.
00:10:41
Speaker
I think that is where it kind of tips over. when When you can harness that for a greater good, i do think that it is super powerful.
00:10:53
Speaker
And again, there's a lot to leverage because you're really, you're digging into all the various faculties that you have and stopping or quitting really isn't an option.
00:11:04
Speaker
And that's where I find really a lot of, you know, a lot of the big victories are takes a long time to get there. People just don't necessarily come out being a world champion diver. They they work at it, right?
00:11:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I love that. um And definitely one of the things that I have heard over and over again from leaders is this a drive, ah willingness to work harder or perhaps work longer or work smarter to to achieve things that others aren't willing to do.
00:11:38
Speaker
and And I'm looking forward to kind of hearing that thread all throughout your life. And it's so much fun hearing it starting at such a young age as well. Yeah, I'm full of stories, so here we go.
00:11:51
Speaker
um So as you as you transitioned ah from from high school to college and kind of went forward in your life kind of with this new vision of who you are, you know I think another thing is adaptability and flexibility is important, right?
00:12:10
Speaker
You might have one vision of who you're going to go or what goal you're going to go to, but if that closes... aspiration doesn't stop. It just gets redirected. So how did you redirect it and where did you direct it to as you kind of progress through your life into the next stage?
00:12:25
Speaker
Yeah, it there's probably two things here. I grew up in a very Catholic family. So my my dad was very keen on me going to a Catholic college. As a matter of fact, there was a rule that you went to the Catholic college. We would pay for half of this or more.
00:12:40
Speaker
um But if you didn't, then you're on your own. And I'm like, well, I'll go to a military academy and they'll pay for it all. Right. Smart ass kid. And. um So, but it's the middle of February and a kid from Minnesota, right? I'm in San Diego. It is beautiful. I'm at the University San Diego. looks Looks like a country club.
00:12:56
Speaker
I can see the ocean from where I am. And this, quite frankly, this beautiful gal was showing me around and I'm like, this is just fantastic. Like, this is life.
00:13:08
Speaker
um And so I quickly i dropped the military academy and applied there and got in. And it really set the course and direction of a great four years in so many respects.
00:13:21
Speaker
And I learned so much out of that experience that I you know i wouldn't ah give a moment of it back. I would love to go back in time and do it all over again. But ah yeah, defining moment in my life was amazing.
00:13:34
Speaker
walking around and maybe quite frankly influenced by a cute girl. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of us, uh, there's been a lot of influence in the world through both cute girls and cute boys, depending on, uh, uh, which one you're most interested in. Yeah, exactly.
00:13:49
Speaker
So, yeah. OK, so all boys, military, Catholic school, going to go to West Point, turned around and you're like, oh, man, San Diego is the life for me. So what what what what were what were some of the the highlights while you were there?
00:14:06
Speaker
Yeah, let me give you a few. There's plenty of stories here, but let me give you my first day of college. it It is August in San Diego. There's a thing called Santa Ana winds. So it's hot, dry wind.
00:14:17
Speaker
And for the first time in my life, I am not wearing a uniform to school again because I grew up in the Catholic yeah school. First time ever. Ever. I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt and I think this is just amazing. Like college is going to be the best ever.
00:14:31
Speaker
I enter my psychology class, no air conditioning. So the windows are open and so forth. And again, the influence maybe of education. I would only say your typical beach, blonde, beautiful California surfer gal is sitting next to me in a bikini top in shorts.
00:14:49
Speaker
And I'm not quite sure what that professor said. i didn't really care. All I knew was I'm like, this is just unbelievable to me
Banking and Mission Work: A Dual Path
00:14:57
Speaker
that you can go to school. It can be this warm and this relaxed. I'm like, this is going to be fun And You know, the the journey from that day forward, I ended up starting a business in college my freshman year ah with a guy in the freshman dorm. We were developed a T-shirt business of which, you know, again, a shy Catholic kid having a business to go around to fraternities and sororities and knock on a door and maybe talk to people and get to know some folks.
00:15:29
Speaker
The irony of hearing David call himself shy is hilarious. as You're about to see. From early on in his journey, it's obvious that he has a quality that all leaders need.
00:15:40
Speaker
He has faith. And the principle of faith means that you don't have certainty. You cannot see it. You cannot touch it. You don't know if it will become reality. But you act as if it is inevitable and you overcome fear and anything else that comes in your way.
00:15:55
Speaker
That's what entrepreneurs and business leaders are doing every day. You have to develop a boldness that a solution will come to you even though you don't know exactly how it will look.
00:16:09
Speaker
It was great. It was just a way to meet people and and get engaged and involved. And what started out as a simple T-shirt business of, you know, doing some silkscreen printing for some fraternity event ah grew quite quickly because...
00:16:25
Speaker
From a fortunate standpoint, it was that point in time where corporate wear was just emerging. So this was late 80s. Land's End was kind of the gig in town, but they're on the East Coast and not that many people knew about them.
00:16:37
Speaker
And so then we started making T-shirts and sweatshirts and sportswear for um ah the companies in San Diego and the the organization and the school and so forth. And so the business grew fast and it was just super fun.
00:16:52
Speaker
One summer I was a teller in a bank and I loved being a teller. I thought it was just a blast. Um, now you got to take into account. I had an uncle who owned a construction company. So every other summer I worked construction.
00:17:06
Speaker
So maybe I love being a bank teller because it was air conditioned, but it was, ah The bank that it was in that summer got robbed twice and it got robbed once the left of me and once to the right of me.
00:17:17
Speaker
And while ah normal people would think that would be scary, I just thought it was exciting. I mean, a bank, there's money, there's people coming in all the time at the teller line, there's robberies.
00:17:28
Speaker
ah You can kind of see the whole thing. I'm in a movie. Yeah, no, it is just, I just loved it. I mean, I just enjoy it. I'd be a teller today because just, there's so much going on and so much action.
00:17:39
Speaker
And, um, I'd said to myself at the time, I'm like, I'm going to be a bank president, man, because I didn't really think much of the bank president because you can kind of see what everybody does when you're at the teller line.
00:17:50
Speaker
And so I'm like, oh, that person works hard. that person I'm like, this president is clueless. Like, he doesn't know who does what in this bank. So that was the first inclination of where where I was headed.
00:18:01
Speaker
um But the story that I was going to tell you that was probably influential in in the direction of maybe being a banker was ah I had a ah good buddy of mine and he talked me into doing some, some mission work. So we went down to Tijuana, Mexico, and were just going to build some homes for people. So part of the kind of campus ministry thing school.
00:18:22
Speaker
And I'm like, I'm down for that. I can swing a hammer, be all right. So it ended up, we get down there, it's a very basic structure. And quite frankly, um i can't build an entire house, but I can build, you know, fairly simple house.
00:18:35
Speaker
And so I grabbed a couple, bunch of kids and some tools and we just started building homes. And so I kind of took charge of of leading one of these groups. But the thing that impacted me the most was ah the single mom and the and her two kids that were right there in her house at the time, made of sticks and put together tarp and so forth.
00:18:54
Speaker
And here we were building a structure and she was going to have shelter, um didn't have heat, but it was way better than what she had. And she was so grateful.
00:19:06
Speaker
um She cooked our group um like a meal. ah All I could think of is it had to be a month's worth of of food of rice and beans and so forth. And so I just walked away from that experience. So was such a full of gratitude, like that I could do something like that. I could help somebody so much that I'm like, how do I do this as a living person?
00:19:27
Speaker
how can I do well and do good at the same time? Because it was just that fulfilling of an experience. And when you think about your career and your life and what you're going to do the rest of your life,
00:19:42
Speaker
I'm like, how do I do this day in and day out to feel this great and have this much energy? Because it is it was just super motivating to do. So there was a bit of glimpse into the power of good and what it meant to me.
00:19:54
Speaker
um But again, i also liked business. And so that the combination of the two was really the journey as to what was what was next. Yeah. So you learn that you love the excitement of starting businesses, interacting with people, ah getting out of your shell.
00:20:13
Speaker
You found that you thought running a bank would be really cool, especially when robbers came. And then you kind of coupled that with you kind of fell into the service opportunity and.
00:20:26
Speaker
Seeing that one, you could help someone, but then the gratitude that she showed you, it sounds like really changed your life. Like that sounds like a watershed moment. Be like, man, that feeling is something that I want to pursue from here on out.
00:20:41
Speaker
That's absolutely correct. And, you know, the way that maybe the universe works is that ah I was thrown an opportunity soon after that. um Upon graduating, I ended up selling the business shortly after i graduated and having wanting to be a banker. I went to work for a bank as a trainee, a bank called First Interstate Bank in Los Angeles, which doesn't exist today. I think it was bought by Wells Fargo.
00:21:10
Speaker
But ah as as my bank robbery experience ah would continue the first two weeks that I was on the job as a trainee, the bank I was in got robbed three times. Now, ie I am 20 something years old, right? I don't know any better. I'm like, it's a bank. Apparently they get robbed a lot, right? Because the summer I was there, got robbed twice. And now they it seems to get robbed weekly.
00:21:31
Speaker
um And so it just so happened that the on the third bank robbery, the customer service manager, she she stepped out and had a smoke. So there was no officer on the floor at the time.
00:21:41
Speaker
And By this time, though, I knew the FBI agents. I knew what to do. So you lock the doors, you separate the tellers, youd you know get the customers um safe and so forth. And you go through this process. And so I really didn't think much of it because I had seen it twice before. And then couple of times during the summer I had participated in.
00:21:59
Speaker
So while I didn't think much of it, the district manager of of the region of First Interstate that I worked in, she's like, well, if you can handle this the way you did with two weeks on the job, you You're going to go to a different place. So the next Monday, i was in South Central Los Angeles.
00:22:17
Speaker
And at the time, that was the bank robbery capital of the world. It also happened to be the time that the Bloods and the Crips were fighting over drug turf in that area. um And so my experience there ah was very rich from a banking standpoint, which they gave me more responsibility than they should have.
00:22:34
Speaker
But I also learned a tremendous amount about how to navigate the urban core and gangs and Rodney King and earthquakes and all sorts of ethnic kind of subtleties within that community.
Challenges and Cultural Adaptation in Banking
00:22:49
Speaker
But the place that was cool and maybe that I thought was really awesome, the businesses in that in South Central at the time They were great people, but they were just in this environment that was really tough.
00:23:02
Speaker
And so me as the young kind of banker there going to make sales calls on them made a difference to them. They appreciated it. And I appreciated them because they were awesome people. And so we had a great relationship and they had never seen a banker knock on their door ah before. They usually just stayed in the bank, right? A hundred percent. And especially in that community, because, you know, what color tie you wore made a difference if you ran into the wrong gang member.
00:23:27
Speaker
So, ah yeah, it was ah it was a ah really great experience and really enriching. Again, I maybe the inclination nation for the military or the bank robbery thing was very it was very exciting to me. And so every day it was this strategy of navigating where to go and and how to avoid danger. Yeah.
00:23:48
Speaker
But however, the third time I had a gun to my head um in the several years I was there, I'm like, you know, my luck is not going to last. um The third one was a bit dramatic. And i was like, oh man, did I get lucky on that one?
00:24:03
Speaker
ah So I ended up moving and and going to work for a mentor of mine who had moved on to Citibank in downtown Los Angeles. and had a great experience there as well. They invested in me heavily from a security standpoint, little bit of international exposure, um just super fun um experience altogether.
00:24:23
Speaker
Yeah. Going back to your time in South Central L.A., um I'd love to hear a little bit about your thoughts on this balance between opening yourself up for possible risk or harm.
00:24:41
Speaker
I think in this case, it was literal harm. I think for most people's case, it's more kind of risk, um you know, hardship, not necessarily having a gun to their head. But I think your extreme...
00:24:54
Speaker
Your extreme example of what you lived, I think, can help us with those of us that maybe it's not as extreme. And I'd also love to understand what you did to be able to learn the intricacies of all those various cultures putting together, because if you didn't get it right, like there were some pretty bad negative consequences. So I just love to hear a little bit more about those two elements.
00:25:22
Speaker
Yeah, I you know i think the the one element that kind of maybe threads a line through all of that is the realization that there are some really awesome, great people in almost every environment. Now, there's some horrible people as well.
00:25:38
Speaker
However, your your common person or common small business ah is...
00:25:48
Speaker
They're just good, hardworking people that want to make a living and um feed their families and send their kids to school and have a decent life and a peaceful life.
00:26:00
Speaker
I don't know if there's a textbook definition for trial by fire. But it's safe to say that David's experience as a banker in central ah l la qualifies. He never lost his cool in the middle of an epidemic of bank robberies. And despite being a white Catholic military school kid from the Midwest, he succeeded in building relationships with people of every background, ethnicity, and profession.
00:26:24
Speaker
That's the foundation of what it means to be a good banker, creating financial opportunity for anyone who's willing to show up for it.
00:26:35
Speaker
I don't know. It was, it was liberating. And quite frankly, probably a great cultural um ah education for me of a kid growing up in Minnesota, right? Which is mainly white.
00:26:48
Speaker
Well, thanks for sharing that. ah What crazy experiences. So the the the third time that you had a gun to your head, that was the tipping point. And so we had a little bit of a transition here um into ah going to work for another financial institution.
00:27:05
Speaker
Now, this time you said there was a mentor that you actually ah followed there that you were excited to learn from. Could you talk a little bit maybe about that relationship and perhaps the importance of mentorship in your leadership journey?
Innovative Thinking and Community Banking
00:27:18
Speaker
Sure. um You know, in particularly in in banking, i'll my mentor is guy by the name of Mike. And Mike, ah he was a crazy Italian. Now, I'm Italian, too, but but he had the crazy. and you're not You're not a crazy Italian. You're just a Italian.
00:27:34
Speaker
ah Yeah, Crazy Mike was a great banker, but also could relate to almost anybody from a CEO down to the common gangbanger that was on the street. he just had that way of of relating to people.
00:27:49
Speaker
And and he would come up with schemes of things like we our whole idea at At the Citibank had taken over a bank called Sears Savings and Loan. It was kind of a sleepy, small branch right in the middle of downtown Los Angeles.
00:28:03
Speaker
And so our whole idea was to to grow it and make it a business bank as opposed to a consumer bank, which meant running some of the customers out because of the CD rates were too high or too expensive and then bringing new commercial customers in.
00:28:16
Speaker
And so, I mean, we would make sales calls up and down the towers and we would figure out ways to talk our way into offices to get to the decision maker. And i got a couple of stories real quick for you on that.
00:28:30
Speaker
One is i did a, you know, the fish bowls you see at like a restaurant ah where you drop your card in, you might get a a drawing for a free lunch, whatever. Now I'm not, I don't think I invented that, but the one thing that I did take away from that was,
00:28:46
Speaker
i'm I'm sitting in this building and I'm looking up at the stories and I'm going, okay, there's a restaurant here. It's a great probability probability that all the people in this building probably go to this restaurant once a month because it's right here.
00:28:59
Speaker
And so I make a deal with the restaurant owner to say, hey, listen, I'll pay for a free lunch for four. um But people have to put their card in. And what I'll do is I'll take all the cards.
00:29:10
Speaker
I'll alphabetize them and organize them for you so you know who your customers are. And so you have this list so you can do your marketing. But then I get the list as well. So it was, the you know, the mid 90s type of thing.
00:29:22
Speaker
And so I had this portfolio of of business clients and and they used to fly back and forth every two weeks between Hong Kong and l L.A. So they're always jet lag. But the one thing that they had is they they all had Pomeranian dog.
00:29:36
Speaker
And so. The long story short of this was they they could never get the dog because they either work in or they're jet lagged in the vet was never open when they wanted to. So it just so happened that the vet ah went to lunch at this restaurant. And so I got the card. I'm like, hey, I bet you this is the vet that takes care of all these Pomeranian dogs.
00:29:56
Speaker
So I go up there and I talk my way through the receptionist and I get to the actual doctor, of the vet. And I said, can you deliver a dog? And he was like, you crazy. Like, what are you talking about? I'm like, you have like six or seven Pomeranian dogs here.
00:30:10
Speaker
And the gentlemen that that own them, would they love their dogs. They would like to be with them, but they work all the time. um Can you deliver a dog? And he's like, no, I can't deliver a dog. I'm like, OK, now we got to play. I'm like, what if you doubled the price of everything? Like if you if you doubled the boarding, what?
00:30:29
Speaker
which could you deliver a dog? And he's like, no I'm like, okay, if you tripled the price of everything, you have to understand who your clients are here. They don't really care what they paid. They just want the bloody dog.
00:30:39
Speaker
And so he's like, you're not joking. I'm like, yeah, triple the price, boarding shots. I don't care. Everything just load them up. Um, he's like, well, I could probably get my niece, but I'd have to get keys to their apartment and arrange it. I'm like, no problem. They all have assistance.
00:30:53
Speaker
They can schedule anything. And so I figured out how to deliver a dog to these seven guys. Right. So when they come, their dog is in their condo waiting for them and they are pleased as can be.
00:31:07
Speaker
Now, this is the one thing I didn't expect. Not less than a month later, hundreds of millions of dollars gets transferred out of Hong Kong and gets platted into ah the the bank in downtown Los Angeles.
00:31:19
Speaker
because I figured out how to deliver a dog had nothing to do with banking whatsoever. It had everything to do with just listening to what their needs were and trying to figure something out. And it it was just funny. Um, at that time i had applied for a job in New York. Cause if you wanted to climb the corporate road ladder, particularly at Citibank,
00:31:35
Speaker
you would have to do some time at the home headquarters or somewhere in New York to to work your way up the system. And so, um yeah, i was on my I was on my way to New York when um my father called and told me that there was a bank for sale in St. Paul, Minnesota, where I grew up.
00:31:54
Speaker
So, David, I mean, I just doing door to door sales in South Central L.A., Figuring out how to make a win-win relationship with the restaurateur to get the most up-to-date database of all of the contact information, companies and titles of everybody in these buildings.
00:32:14
Speaker
Convincing vets to triple their price and and deliver dogs. this ah This type of non-linear thinking and innovative ideas i is super unique.
00:32:32
Speaker
What do you think were the confluence of events or skills or whatever that one where. You know, you have these different types of ideas and innovation in you.
00:32:46
Speaker
Well, I do think and I'll let you know on a little bit of a um maybe uniquely personal type of thing, and that is um so I'm slightly dyslexic. And so. um Now, that was really tough growing up in school because I had to work my ass off in order to to do well in school.
00:33:05
Speaker
I just did not come supernatural. And but the thing that I learned later is I don't think like everybody else does. um And I can only point to that because I don't know any better. I am not a neuroscientist at all. But um the way that I i feel my brain is wired is slightly different than quite a few people.
00:33:25
Speaker
And And maybe that, that thinking um comes from a combination of that, but also maybe a little bit of a combination of, of a bigger picture of, you know, in some cases, try it or what do you got to lose?
00:33:42
Speaker
Or they can only say no. um If I do things in a polite way, in a respectful way, and I'm, I'm, I'm not trying to
00:33:54
Speaker
coerce anybody into anything. I'm just providing them some options and some solutions. And again, the win-win thing is kind of the way that my brain is wired. And and that's the way that I think of a lot of things um because it it makes for a great relationship, ah not only at the beginning, but then it's it is sustaining when both sides of a partnership or a collaboration are are benefiting.
00:34:19
Speaker
um I don't know. I guess I'm not. the The ability or the willingness to fail and not care and think of it just as a learning experience is kind of the rinse and repeat of my life.
00:34:33
Speaker
With the right attitude, everything can be your ally. David is an incredible example of a leader who learned early on how to convert difficulty and setbacks into advantages.
00:34:45
Speaker
and I fully believe that this characteristic has fueled his success. Lots of people in the business world will talk about creating win-win solutions, but when push comes to shove, it's way easier to point fingers and blame someone else when the deal falls through.
00:35:02
Speaker
When David finally convinces the vet to deliver the Pomeranians to their owners, you see the unshakable determination he has pursue the win-win and create value for his clients.
00:35:16
Speaker
In that moment, he wasn't launching a new banking product or service. He was building better relationships, and his hard work paid off.
00:35:28
Speaker
It's kind of like I should have a graduate degree in, you know, the School of Hard Knocks or something. It just is try, try, try, try. try And some things will stick. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
00:35:39
Speaker
So um one question I have for you, as you were going through these formative professional years, I am curious. on did you ever run into leaders that were resistant to your ah different ways of thinking and or the being okay with some failures, ah you know, allowing you to do your thing and understanding that some things weren't going to work?
00:36:07
Speaker
And if so, kind of how did you how did you work through that? how How did you build that that relationship of trust over time? Yeah, it's an interesting question. um ah So i think part of it is the, the, maybe the fun of the game or the art of the game. And that is i knew I was in a corporate environment and I'm trying things a bit more relaxed or entrepreneurial. And I didn't really think of it as that term at the time. I just thought it was more creative or i was just trying to make my sales goals, quite frankly, and I'm figuring out how to make that happen.
00:36:42
Speaker
And But I think maybe one of the art forms of that is being able to adjust. And so when you're in a room of corporate bankers from Citibank, and again, really smart people, really ah great people, and again, willing to share and and be mentors or teach, which I found was fantastic.
00:37:02
Speaker
But ah you got to know when to be buttoned up and keep the jacket and the suit tie on and behave and act that way again. And then you need to be able to change and morph when you're with a small business customer who's got, you know, bibs and overalls, but you know, it's got a million dollars in cash sitting in your bank. um That's just the, I think the the fun in my opinion, but the beauty of people, they're just different. They're all nice. They view the world a little differently and live a little differently. um
00:37:33
Speaker
But again, if I can adapt and make them feel comfortable with who I am, Yeah. Stay true to yourself, but adapt to the culture you find yourself in. Exactly. And always be respectful. um ah If you respect people at a very, no matter what they look like, smell like, tall, short, whatever.
00:37:55
Speaker
um If you respect people, you more than likely you'll get respect back. Yeah, I love that. I love that. And part of that respect is not just respecting them, but also their cultural norms and and and what they would expect.
00:38:10
Speaker
Yeah. All right. So you thought you were going to be going to New York. Instead, your dad calls you up and says, hey, there's a bank for sale. What do you think? Yeah. ah First of all, I got to my wife now of 29 years. I had to say, hey, honey, we're going to move back to Minnesota. um And I'm thinking about buying a business there.
Aligning Business with Social Good
00:38:33
Speaker
um So, yeah, I ended up my dad let me know that there's a bank for sale. And ah we ended up buying that bank. It was in a neighborhood that I knew actually quite well because my Italian grandmother, who was an immigrant, lived about six blocks away from there.
00:38:49
Speaker
and I'd spent quite a bit of time, again, youngest of four, I got dropped off at grandma's house quite a bit. And it was basically a neighborhood of immigrants. And the immigrants of the time were Hmong, Laotian, Southeast Asian.
00:39:03
Speaker
And so... ah I leveraged, i I took all my savings and what i saved from selling the t-shirt company and, and, um, savings from, you know, just basic savings, uh, got a biggest loan I could.
00:39:19
Speaker
The bank was a train wreck. Uh, just i not only its physical building, but the systems, the mindset, um, and the bank had just such a crazy history and story to it of, um,
00:39:36
Speaker
One of the previous owners did federal prison prison time twice, ended up dying in prison. He was part of a Kansas City Mafia family. um He sold it somebody owed money to.
00:39:47
Speaker
And that didn't go well. The regulators came back in. um There's a thing in banking called cease and desist orders. That's when you're really super in trouble with the regulators. um At the time.
00:39:59
Speaker
And again, there was no digital at the time. I didn't read them all. All I did was measure them. And it was about an inch and a quarter worth of cease and desist orders. mean, they couldn't do anything without the regulators giving them approval.
00:40:10
Speaker
And so in any event, we it was a total turnaround of of digging it out and then focusing in on um really supporting the Hmong community at the time and Again, that that whole notion of the win-win, the only way this bank was going to succeed was if the Hmong community succeeded. And they could buy homes and businesses and cars um and really, ah I don't know, enjoy the American dream, but but become prosperous. And so there was a shared value right from the start of their success is mine, their failure is my failure.
00:40:47
Speaker
And so... People ask, well, what was it like? I'm like, well, if you put your college, your kids' college education in loans to low-income immigrants, um you're focused on their success. And that is really what it was. Like, you would they have to, this has got to work for everybody.
00:41:06
Speaker
I have to ask, is is is this the point when you felt like those two things that you found in college that you loved, the running a business and serving others and just being able to to give that, like, is this when it came together?
00:41:23
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't realize it um at the time. And again, I really didn't realize, honestly, that I was ah more of an entrepreneur than a banker until several years after. And I didn't really realize what I was doing in the early days of the bank.
00:41:41
Speaker
As a matter of fact, um Yes, it felt right. Cause it was something that took focus and diligence and it was urban. And I knew that well, you and it was a lot easier than South central LA from a gang standpoint and so forth. So there some things that were easy, but, but at the same, i needed to figure out ways around and with regulations in which to loan people money that were, that was different than most.
00:42:08
Speaker
um And But I discovered maybe my some of my genius was figuring out how to work within regulations and do it safe and soundly, but then figure out how to partner and collaborate in which to make loans actually get out the door so people could buy businesses.
00:42:29
Speaker
um They could buy a house and fix it up um and really begin. And it was really around, you know, economic development and community development. But also, for example, at one point in time, I think.
00:42:42
Speaker
40 some percent of the customers of the bank were Hmong and 30 plus percent of the staff were Hmong. And so again, the cultural component of this was, you know, if you want to bank the Hmong people, why not hire the Hmong people? They know the culture and the language and the dialects the best. And but besides, they're great people. And so that worked out really well.
00:43:02
Speaker
um I'll tell you one story because I was at a at a crossroads kind of within the first couple of years, like Does anybody else do this, do well, do good stuff? Like, I feel like I'm an island out here. It's certainly not finding it in the banking community.
00:43:21
Speaker
They're a little more buttoned up from a standpoint of their focus. I ended up learning about this organization called the Social Venture Network. And again, bunch of do-go-to-tree-hugger type of businesses, meeting in California.
00:43:34
Speaker
I buy ticket and go because I'm like, maybe this is my tribe, right? Who's in this group? So I'm meeting some people from like seventh generation you know, cleaning products and so forth that are organic and this and that slow food and organic this.
00:43:51
Speaker
And then i I see on the registration table, I see Jerry from Bennington. And I'm like, I recognize that name. And he would be someone to talk to because They're about organic farming and um in sustainable agriculture and so forth. And like he runs this business that kind of borders this do well, do good stuff. um And again,
00:44:18
Speaker
I get in the courage to go talk to Jerry from Ben and Jerry's was a bunch of cocktails. Both he and I had a bunch of cocktails. put that way. It was after a long social hour, finally got the courage to go talk to him.
00:44:29
Speaker
And so I tell him the story of the bank and what I'm trying to do. And I'm like, I don't do, what do you do? He's like, David, like, this is awesome. This is exactly what we do. He goes, I don't want people coming in buying my ice cream if they don't believe in the family farming or in sustainable agriculture and, you know, this this purity of which we are. And he goes, if you stick with your values, there's plenty of business. There's many plenty of people who believe what you believe and the people who don't.
00:44:58
Speaker
Tell them to go away. They're not your customers. He was just focusing the people who want to do good, who want to help these immigrants. um There's plenty of people and around there to build a great business. And so he was one that gave me the motivation to go back and say, this is who we are. This is what we do. And it kind of solidified in my head is um this is our niche.
Community and Entrepreneurial Spirit
00:45:19
Speaker
David was in college when he first realized that he wanted to make a difference in the world by helping others. You could see that thread all through his work as a banker in l LA and back home in Minnesota.
00:45:30
Speaker
But that didn't change the loneliness he felt in pursuing that mission. It's the leader's job to create a mission and pursue it, even when other people can't see it. Hopefully, you can find a mentor like David found in Jerry Greenfield, a guide who can encourage you to keep the faith and trust that there is a tribe of people who share your values and passion.
00:45:55
Speaker
We're going to be the best in the world at at doing this. And ah that motivation was just so helpful at the time because I'm like lost. And then I started to figure out, oh, there's a thing called social entrepreneurship.
00:46:07
Speaker
And then there's different some different banking certifications like a community development financial institution or a CDFI that focuses on making loans in low income areas. and I'm like, oh, that seems to be my tribe in the banking space. And so it was.
00:46:20
Speaker
And so, again, finding your community is to. that values alignment and um was really helpful in, I'll say, not only the encouragement, but the ability to talk to other people about how do you do this? How do you do banking in a in a good and sustainable or an environmental way?
00:46:39
Speaker
So and I have two follow-up questions. So my first one is this. When you came back and kind of had this aha moment, you came back to the bank, like, here's who we are.
00:46:51
Speaker
Here's what our values are. And here's how we're going to do business. I'm sure everyone at the bank was like, I'm all on board. And everything was hunky dory from there, right?
00:47:01
Speaker
um Well, let's start with that one. ah So not necessarily. I'm shocked. I'm shocked. I did find myself being a teller again. So I had I I couldn't figure out why people in our community were using check cashers as opposed to coming into using the bank.
00:47:19
Speaker
And so again, in my maybe entrepreneurial style, I got my car, i drove around, cashed a bunch of checks, figured out that there were five check cashers in the six block area of the bank. um I figured out who was the smallest and I wanted to see if they wanted to partner, um but the guy wanted to sell his business. But I bought the check casher and brought it onto the lobby of the bank. And so people who didn't have bank accounts who are unbanked, they could come in and cash their check.
00:47:42
Speaker
Now, I found out we were terrible check cashers, but the point of the story to your question was this. I had three tellers who had been with the bank for like a decade or more, and they came to me and says, we're not going to serve those people. And I'm like, what? Serve?
00:47:58
Speaker
What do you mean those people? Those people look exactly like everyone who else who comes in the bank. yeah We're not serving those people. And I'm like, I don't think you understand. Everybody who comes in this bank, you're going to show respect to. And if you can't, then you're fired.
00:48:11
Speaker
And so all three of them got fired in a single day. So the next day I found myself being a teller. um Hey, what you said was one of your favorite jobs you've ever had. So there's that.
00:48:22
Speaker
I got to meet a lot of customers that way and figure out a lot of stuff. And innovations come when you talk to people. Right. And so um but. it It drew a line in the sand of, listen, that um that type of of racism or irrespective people, no matter who they are, does not live here.
00:48:39
Speaker
And if you have that, you should leave because you're not going to survive and I'm not going to allow you to be here. um and As a matter of fact, everybody who comes in, you don't know if that person has a hundred thousand dollars or one dollar.
00:48:52
Speaker
Their clothes don't determine who they are. So don't just judge that book by its cover. get to know who those people are and you will find out a lot more and and you'll be a lot more successful as a result.
00:49:03
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. Well, thank you for sharing that. I think that can the it's one thing to kind of find the vision, to find the values and figure out, you know, what is the direction of not just your life, but the organization that you're leading.
00:49:17
Speaker
It's another than to follow through on it and to make hard and difficult decisions in that. So i really appreciate you sharing that. My other question, and you've touched on this a little bit, I'd just love for you to ah share a couple more words and because I think this is something that is somewhat lost in the post-COVID world a little bit.
00:49:40
Speaker
What was it like finding that community so that you didn't feel like you were the lone man on the island?
00:49:50
Speaker
You know, it was really important on... on the journey, um not just because there were others doing it, um
00:50:03
Speaker
ah the the sharing and collaboration amongst the the like-minded people, it was so much easier to have a conversation and where, let's say the bankers who are CDFIs, it wasn't just this person's a colleague. This person became a friend because we're sharing the same values. We're doing things very similar.
00:50:26
Speaker
um You get to know who they are and their family. And ah You're not competitors. And so you share best practices. um You can bounce ideas off of someone or you learn from their mistakes and they learn from yours without having to pay the tuition of it.
00:50:44
Speaker
And so that component of it was great. But I have to say that the.
00:50:51
Speaker
just the basis of the value proposition that you're not crazy. Like people have other businesses that are larger than my bank at the time who have done been maybe a little bit more successful and maybe others not.
00:51:05
Speaker
But the fact is is, that there's a business model here and they've been doing it for a period of time and I've been doing it now. And, and so that this is a sustainable venture and, um,
00:51:17
Speaker
And then you can begin to partner on things. I mean, some in some cases, it could be um talking to a legislative ah body about the CDFI fund, and we would go as a group. And so we do a lobbying effort together.
00:51:29
Speaker
And again, shared values around job creation or something of that nature. um So it was important. The other thing that I think was important outside of maybe banking, was really going into an entrepreneurial coaching program and then really understanding, oh my God, I'm not a banker that has entrepreneurial tendencies. I'm an entrepreneur and just happens to own a bank.
00:51:52
Speaker
um That's just the canvas. And so... That was so freeing to be in a room of entrepreneurs and that there were other people who thought like I thought.
00:52:03
Speaker
Like, again, another part of I'm not crazy. I just wasn't in the right place or within the right people. um And now I'm within this very optimistic, forward thinking, try a lot of stuff and fail and be OK with it type of group.
00:52:20
Speaker
And it's just exciting. Yeah. Even to the point where, like in the in the coaching program from like a time system, people are like, yeah, weekends. that Why does a weekend matter? Really? There's seven days work.
00:52:33
Speaker
We all work seven days a week. Now, we do need to take some free days off. And part of the this coaching lesson was free days, focus days, and buffer days, right? And so... Yeah, there's 52 weekends in a year, but if you work all of them, what's the big deal? How do you get time to rejuvenate? Well, you need to probably schedule free time.
00:52:52
Speaker
And so, again, the time system we live on today is out of an industrial ah age of business. And if you're in an entrepreneurial world, it's 365 your whole life. So how do you balance life, work, family, everything else, um you need a different system.
Leadership and Learning: Final Reflections
00:53:12
Speaker
And so i mean things just like that, that you're like, ah, people get who I am. I'm mowing the lawn and I'm thinking about the strategic plan of the bank. So it's, um again, finding that tribe in that group of of like-minded, but again, people who stretch you and um ah you think are crazier than you are, it's it's really helpful.
00:53:33
Speaker
Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. um And I mean, what a what a wonderful story hearing, you know, when you took over the bank, what was it? An inch and a half and of cease to desist. I mean, to to what it is now, which is an amazing organization had huge impact well beyond just the initial community that you started with.
00:53:55
Speaker
ah Certified B Corporation. i mean, just what a what a wonderful story. And thank you for Sharing aspects of your leadership journey so we could learn from you um on adaptability, willing to take risk, facing fears, looking for mentors and all that fun stuff.
00:54:12
Speaker
I did have two questions that I wanted to ah wanted to end with. The first one, you know, a lot of people talk about business books you should read and all that stuff, which I think that's great.
00:54:23
Speaker
But since a lot of other people talk about let's not talk about it here. I'm curious if you have any book recommendations that are non-business related. So, yes, I do.
00:54:36
Speaker
Now, i'll I'll go back to the slightly dyslexic thing. So reading a book for me is like a chore. So there'll be more podcasts than books. But there's actually two books. And the first one is kind of businesslike, but i it's such...
00:54:50
Speaker
um I highly recommend it from how people view and feel about money. um It's called The Psychology of Money. um Very easy read. and But it is a great puts a great perspective on money and its emotion and all the things.
00:55:05
Speaker
But the one that I would say ah that has nothing to do with money or banking or something of that nature, it's called Younger Next Year. And it really is about, um i'll I'll call it self-improvement, but how you think about yourself and your performance.
00:55:20
Speaker
And, um, again, your age, we all ah think of our age from a biological standpoint of, or, uh, a chronological standpoint of we were born at this date and now I'm this old, um, as opposed to, you know, my lungs are really that of a 24 year old.
00:55:36
Speaker
Um, my knees are that of 60 year old, uh, or something of that nature in terms of how you think you're of your biology and how well you perform. And I think, you know, for the business leaders who listen to this call or this podcast, it is how do you if you think of yourself as an athlete in some regard, how do you get the best out of yourself mentally and physically and in order to get the best performance possible?
00:56:02
Speaker
And part of that has to do in this book, I think, really describes it well as to how can you be younger um and perform better? Yeah, I love that. And we'll make sure to put ah um in our show notes a link to both of those books.
00:56:15
Speaker
All right, to wrap it up, last one. From your perspective, is a leader born or is a leader made? that's a tough one.
00:56:30
Speaker
You know, I'm going to say that a leader is born. I do think, though,
00:56:41
Speaker
That the leadership of the individual is really shaped by the nature and in the environment that they're put in, um as well as the opportunities that come and go in front of them.
00:56:57
Speaker
So I think there are elements to, yes, you're maybe born a leader, but has the environment given you the opportunity to do that? And in some cases, you'll find people who are not leaders and they are in leadership positions because the environment gave them the opportunity.
00:57:12
Speaker
um But I really do think when you think of great leadership, There are some, I think, innate elements that really do make a great leader. And again, the definition of poor, good, and great in terms of leadership, it could be definitely debated.
00:57:28
Speaker
um
00:57:31
Speaker
You know, I look at my life and I'm like, oh, my God, I'm the luckiest person alive in terms of all these various elements that were confronted in experiences and stories. It's kind of a amazing that I'm still here. But but it's all those experiences that I think lead up to the knowledge or the wisdom, but also the the love and compassion that you have for people and the situations that you're in.
00:57:58
Speaker
Um, so I'll go with born. Awesome. Well, David, I can't thank you enough for your, for your time and just really appreciated all of your stories. And I learned so much. So thank you.
00:58:11
Speaker
Thank you. i appreciate the opportunity, Nathan, and, enjoyed every minute of it
00:58:20
Speaker
Nelson Mandela, the humanitarian, Nobel Peace Prize winner and president of South Africa once said, i never lose, I either win or I learn.
00:58:31
Speaker
That's a remarkable thing to say for a person who was born with the wrong skin color during apartheid and served 27 years in prison. That kind of oppression and injustice is more likely to produce bitterness and hatred than generosity and compassion.
00:58:47
Speaker
But that's also why Mandela's words are so powerful, and why David Reiling's journey is so remarkable. David could have left banking forever after the first bank robbery or developed deep prejudice against certain people simply because his friends or colleagues held those same views.
00:59:04
Speaker
Instead, David doubled down on treating everyone with respect. He was just as comfortable helping a gang member resolve his deceased mother's financial matters as sitting around the boardroom with Citibank brass.
00:59:18
Speaker
Today, he's leading a bank that promotes those same values. Always seek the win-win. and looking for novel ways to add value to the community. Even though David's destiny was never set in stone, it makes perfect sense in retrospect.
00:59:32
Speaker
That's the great challenge of leadership. You can't always see where you're going or how you're going to get there. But if you have faith and a willingness to do the hard work, a path will open and opportunities will flourish.
00:59:45
Speaker
We're so grateful to you and all of our listeners. This show is a labor of love and we're honored to host such incredible guests. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app for notifications when new episodes are released.
01:00:00
Speaker
You'll find the link to David's book recommendations in the show notes. You've been listening to Builder, Banker, Hacker, Chief, a podcast produced and distributed by ZSuite Technologies Incorporated, all rights reserved.
01:00:12
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I'm your host, Nathan Baumeister, the CEO and co-founder of ZSuite Tech. This show was co-produced, written, and edited by Zach Garver. Sound engineering was done by Nathan Butler at Nimblewit Productions.
01:00:25
Speaker
If you enjoyed the episode, please take a moment to leave us a review or share the episode. This helps other people to find our show. You can also listen on all major podcast platforms, including Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, and Spotify.
01:00:49
Speaker
please