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Tim Burnside, Aviagen: Breeding Poultry For Higher Sustainability, Welfare and Performance
5 Plays8 months ago
In the very first episode of the Poultry.Network Sustainability Hub Podcast, Tom Willings speaks with Tim Burnside, Global Vice President for Welfare, Sustainability and Compliance at Aviagen Group.
The Sustainability Hub was established by Poultry Network to showcase how every part of the poultry meat and egg production chain is working towards a more sustainable future.
In a series of podcasts, our pioneers in sustainable poultry production take to the mic to discuss the latest innovations and insights in their businesses and how their progress might help shape the future further afield.
Aviagen are at the vanguard of the poultry industry, but as we learn in our discussion with Tim, there’s more to Aviagen than the Ross 308 and a keen eye for selection.
Aviagen is a business pioneering scientific research, accelerating the implementation of technology to protect valuable natural resources and, perhaps above all, acting as an influential force for good in sharing knowledge and recognising best practices across a diverse network of customers and global stakeholders.
Tim, who has devoted a career of thirty years to the company, uses his extraordinary commitment and experience to guide the global Aviagen Group on policies and developments seeking to champion and further advance bird welfare and sustainability. In his role, Tim travels extensively, presenting as an authority to the wider industry and sharing his vast knowledge.
An active contributor and chair of multiple sustainability-focused working groups across the world, there can be no-one better placed to kickstart the conversation.
In a wide-ranging dialogue, Tim and Tom discuss the nitty-gritty of the Aviagen breeding program.
Tim brings to life the strategic balancing act of keeping a steady yet progressive eye on the selection process, ensuring a pragmatic approach to the levers of productivity and welfare.
Rather than presenting such a balance as a compromise, Tim explains the resources at Aviagen to create the ideal blend of features for a given market.
Tim points to the importance of farm management along with genetics in outcomes of health and performance.
Aviagen’s long-term corporate program of recognising success at the grassroots level is a resounding success and has created the blueprint for continuous improvement, from individual farms to integrated supply chains.
Looking ahead to the changing marketplace facing the sustainability challenges of the present day, the pair explore how the sector at large is well prepared not only to adapt but to thrive.
As a global poultry industry, we’re providing an all-important healthy and cost-effective protein source, but doing so with ever-greater care and responsibility to the bird and the planet.
With thanks to our sponsors, Alltech, Aviagen, Elanco, Moy Park, Trouw Nutrition, UK Agri-Tech Centres
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Sustainability in Poultry
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Poultry Network Sustainability Hub.
00:00:03
Speaker
My name is Tom Willings and this is a series of podcasts dedicated to the poultry sector discussing the topic of sustainability.
00:00:10
Speaker
Over the course of the year ahead, we're going to talk about every topic from animal welfare through to net zero and everything in between.
00:00:17
Speaker
I need to thank our sponsors.
00:00:19
Speaker
We are sponsored by Alltech, by Moy Park, by the UK Agritech Centre, by Trow Nutrition, Elanco, and lastly by Aviagen.
Guest Introduction: Tim Burnside
00:00:29
Speaker
And I'm delighted today that we're joined by near 30 year veteran of Aviagen, Tim Burnside.
00:00:37
Speaker
Tim, welcome to the podcast.
00:00:38
Speaker
I'm pleased to be here, Tom.
00:00:40
Speaker
Thanks very much.
00:00:41
Speaker
Tim, you've done 30 years at Aviagen.
00:00:43
Speaker
You're currently the Global Vice President for Welfare, Sustainability and Compliance.
00:00:49
Speaker
I always think it's a fantastic accolade for not only a business, but an industry when someone so experienced, so qualified, dedicates an entire working life to their chosen pursuit.
00:01:04
Speaker
What keeps you coming back for more?
00:01:05
Speaker
What keeps it fresh?
Tim Burnside's Role and Experience
00:01:06
Speaker
What keeps it fresh is there's always the new challenge.
00:01:09
Speaker
I mean, over the years, I've done many roles within that 30 year period, but there's always something new.
00:01:15
Speaker
And again, it's the opportunity to go and talk to people about things that we care about.
00:01:19
Speaker
For example, today we're talking about welfare and sustainability, which is a passion of mine.
00:01:25
Speaker
And you've seen a phenomenal amount of change over such a long time.
00:01:30
Speaker
I don't mean to say that you're old, but 30 years in a business means you're of a certain age.
00:01:36
Speaker
So what, how has your role changed?
00:01:40
Speaker
And could you tell us exactly what it is that you do today?
00:01:42
Speaker
Yes, certainly.
00:01:43
Speaker
So I mean, so most of my career has been within the Turkey industry, moving over to the role I have now about five years ago.
00:01:52
Speaker
I have covered a multitude of areas, including the realm of R&D running trials, also within terms of ISO and compliance,
00:02:01
Speaker
elements of health and safety, and then diversifying into audits and auditing, which brought me back into the welfare, the orbital welfare, and from there, the development into now being the role I have, which is overlooking across all the breeding companies which are within Avagen, so that's both chicken and turkey.
00:02:22
Speaker
And again, that lets me see not only what do we do within our own businesses, but also the impacts of what we are doing with our customers and on a global basis.
00:02:32
Speaker
And the description of your role is a fascinating one.
00:02:35
Speaker
You mentioned trials and we're going to come and talk about that in a moment.
00:02:39
Speaker
But you've got both sort of internal and external duties as part of your role.
00:02:47
Speaker
Any tension between what the company wants and what the wider world is looking for?
00:02:54
Speaker
There's always bits and pieces in one way or another, but ultimately, regardless of what we do from an internal perspective, we've always got to consider when we're looking after animals that that's their bread and butter, that's how all of us are paid.
00:03:07
Speaker
We're all paid within Avigem, effectively, by what comes out of the back end of a chicken.
00:03:12
Speaker
and therefore if we look after and care for those animals we're caring for ourselves and we have a future going forward.
00:03:17
Speaker
So that's from an internal perspective and then from external is about understanding what our customers needs and equally what are the pressures that they're under and how we drive our breeding programs to meet those requirements.
00:03:30
Speaker
Tim, this is a podcast aimed at the entire poultry industry, layers, meat birds, turkeys.
00:03:37
Speaker
Aviagen's a global leader, but perhaps better known in meat rather than laying industry.
00:03:43
Speaker
Could you just talk to us a bit about Aviagen for those that might not know it as well?
00:03:47
Speaker
Certainly.
Aviagen's Breeding Process and Decisions
00:03:48
Speaker
So what we are is we're a breeding company.
00:03:50
Speaker
So what that means is that we're involved in trying to produce the birds which the consumer eats.
00:03:58
Speaker
And that goes through a selection process, which is at our pedigree level, which is effectively the best of the best.
00:04:04
Speaker
And we are looking to improve those populations through selection and measuring of particular traits.
00:04:11
Speaker
And that then goes through generations.
00:04:13
Speaker
Now as a business, we have locations and sales on a global basis, as you talked about.
00:04:19
Speaker
We have breeding programs in the US and also in the UK, but then we have the grandparent generations at multiple places to supply those markets.
00:04:29
Speaker
So that's in terms of, and we have bases across all the continents.
00:04:34
Speaker
So we are able to supply the customer in a particular continent from that continent.
00:04:40
Speaker
Am I right in thinking that the UK is actually quite a significant, quite an important location for global poultry breeding?
00:04:49
Speaker
Yes.
00:04:50
Speaker
So in terms of within Avigen, both within our chicken and our turkey operations, one of the breeding programmes is based in the UK.
00:04:58
Speaker
So in other words, the UK is responsible for feeding at least half of the world with chicken or turkey.
00:05:05
Speaker
The UK is responsible for feeding at least half of the world.
00:05:08
Speaker
That's a wonderful statement to hear.
00:05:10
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:05:11
Speaker
And again, it's one that we need to be proud of that we do.
00:05:14
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:05:14
Speaker
I think that's one of the aims of this podcast is to let people know, a much wider audience know, that the food and the farming industry has got an extraordinary story to tell in terms of a lot of the good work that is going on.
00:05:32
Speaker
I know you've just got back from your travels.
00:05:34
Speaker
You're a man who seems to spend an awful lot of time travelling internationally in your role, no doubt, because you've got this huge wealth of experience and knowledge to bring.
00:05:47
Speaker
Where have you just got back from?
00:05:48
Speaker
So in this particular instance, I've just come back from the United States where I was talking at a conference, talking about the welfare of breeders.
00:05:58
Speaker
Tell us about your slides.
00:05:59
Speaker
So one of the elements we were talking about was what as a brand company we do because again one of the things we find on a regular basis is people do not have an understanding of what we do and what choices we're making and how we make those choices and then what are the benefits that we have brought.
00:06:18
Speaker
So talking about those areas and then also trying to point out that not everything in terms of the birds is down to genetics.
00:06:27
Speaker
We also have the element that the management is a key role within there.
00:06:32
Speaker
Management has a greater impact upon the outcome at farm level than the genetics.
00:06:38
Speaker
We're going to talk a lot more about farm management and the softer skills at farm primary, farm level a bit later in our discussion.
00:06:47
Speaker
But for the minute, let's just talk breeding and the influences that create the selection programme.
00:06:55
Speaker
Bring it to life for us, Tim, because it's a long process from concept to delivery, isn't it?
00:07:00
Speaker
Yes, basically we have in terms of the choices that we make at the pedigree level within our breeding programme today are not seen for four years.
00:07:11
Speaker
So the choices we make today, we are in a certain extent gazing into that crystal ball because the choices we make today is what we have for the consumer in four years' time.
00:07:21
Speaker
And so we, as we talk about, we have the fact that our breeding has changed as well over the years.
00:07:26
Speaker
Again, if we look 20, 30, 40 years back in time, the measurement was looking at production traits because these were all very easy to measure and very easy to make, to make a difference, to make a change.
00:07:37
Speaker
But as time has gone on, it's become a more holistic approach and therefore we take more factors into account.
00:07:43
Speaker
So health and welfare are a much higher concern than they were before.
00:07:48
Speaker
In actual fact, the focus within the programme, that's about 30% of our, over 30% of our selection focus.
00:07:53
Speaker
I was going to ask you, you say you take more factors into account.
00:07:56
Speaker
How many factors are we
00:07:57
Speaker
talking about?
00:07:58
Speaker
We're over 50, we're measuring over 50 elements within any one animal, we're taking into account as part of that selection process and they will be at different points of time in the bird's age and again they will be in different elements so we take that, we look at all these bits, they're all, all these elements and everything that we measure as a trait needs to be able to be measured accurately
00:08:21
Speaker
repeatedly and in a reliable way and that again it's there for generation after generation so so these changes are incremental so it's a small change at a time but over but they build up so again as you were saying before big changes yes if we if we compare 20 years ago with today if we compare yesterday with tomorrow not so much
00:08:42
Speaker
I'm my brain is scrambled with trying to think about the long term pressures.
00:08:47
Speaker
You know, how do you do more with less?
00:08:49
Speaker
Your your farmer, any farmer would say, I want to I want a bird or an animal that's going to be more productive, that's going to be more efficient, that's going to allow me to have an opportunity of being more profitable.
00:09:02
Speaker
And then you've got sort of market challenges that will say, well, we have a different set of demands, whatever they might be.
00:09:09
Speaker
For some markets, it might be, you know, out and out welfare, slow growing is a big topic of conversation in our country, of course, but different elsewhere.
00:09:18
Speaker
How do you balance the quantitative impact?
00:09:24
Speaker
data-driven performance selection with some of the softer stuff about consumer demand, for example, and who are the people that are feeding into these decision-making processes?
00:09:35
Speaker
There's two separate aspects to that.
00:09:37
Speaker
One is you have with each of the... So again, in terms of a breeding programme, what we're looking at in that final broiler is made up of usually four different lines that get crossed at the parent stock and then into the broiler.
00:09:52
Speaker
and what you have is you have different targets, different expectations for those various lines and you are looking to build up the difference in there.
00:09:59
Speaker
So you have one element is you're looking to continue to improve each individual line and then you have the option about crossing different lines at different points.
00:10:06
Speaker
So that's why as a breeding company one of the things we have is we also have lots of different birds, lots of different lines which we do not necessarily sell because again we have them
00:10:16
Speaker
in case we need them.
00:10:18
Speaker
So again, it means that we can, if we've got a market which wants, as you were saying, lots of meat grown very efficiently with a good level of welfare, we can sell you within Europe the 308.
00:10:32
Speaker
If on the other hand, you want a bird which scores higher in terms of its welfare and the objective elements of welfare we use in terms of those traits, but it's not in the same place from, for example, a feed efficiency perspective,
00:10:46
Speaker
We can sell you a range of gold.
00:10:49
Speaker
So you've got the core product.
00:10:50
Speaker
Let's talk about the 308.
00:10:52
Speaker
You've got the core product and then you've got these.
00:10:55
Speaker
I think you described them as birds that you're not currently selling or marketing that feel almost a contingent line.
00:11:01
Speaker
Is that right?
00:11:02
Speaker
They've got features.
00:11:03
Speaker
They've got elements of it that you might want to bring into the fold on a more commercially available platform.
00:11:08
Speaker
Well, there's always that potential or equally then there are reference lines.
00:11:12
Speaker
So one of the things we have, for example, is we have unselected lines.
00:11:14
Speaker
We have lines which are from the 1970s.
00:11:17
Speaker
So again, that gives us a benchmark.
00:11:20
Speaker
That gives us something to look and measure and compare against.
00:11:22
Speaker
Where's the bird today compared to the bird from 50 years ago?
00:11:26
Speaker
Yeah, fascinating.
00:11:27
Speaker
We're talking about sustainability, Tim.
00:11:30
Speaker
And I wonder how big an influence the topic of sustainability and all of its various meanings has had on the breeding programme in recent
Sustainability's Impact on Breeding Programs
00:11:37
Speaker
years.
00:11:37
Speaker
So again, within the breeding programme, sustainability has always been there.
00:11:41
Speaker
As you rightly said, with the conversation we are having today, people are becoming more aware of all the aspects of sustainability.
00:11:49
Speaker
So yes, we have the environmental, which is what most people think about when you ask somebody about sustainability, they think about environmental.
00:11:55
Speaker
But we also have economic and we also have social.
00:11:58
Speaker
So, because again, the point we've got to have is we've got to have economic sustainability because if we don't have economic sustainability, there is no businesses going forward.
00:12:06
Speaker
We can't do all the good things in terms of all the other aspects.
00:12:10
Speaker
Sorry to interrupt.
00:12:10
Speaker
And that's the economic sustainability is about...
00:12:15
Speaker
the most efficient bird, the bird that is going to provide the opportunity of the best return at farm level, right?
00:12:22
Speaker
Yes, but also tied into that, we then, driving out of that, is some of the other areas like environmental sustainability.
00:12:29
Speaker
So again, feed efficiency is key to environmental sustainability because at the end of the day, there's two elements to think about.
00:12:36
Speaker
The element to think about is the fact that
00:12:39
Speaker
It's the most cost to the farmer in terms of the most expensive thing they have is feeding the bird.
00:12:44
Speaker
But the other bit as well is the fact that the feed comes from somewhere.
00:12:48
Speaker
So you have the environmental impact of producing the feed and there.
00:12:52
Speaker
So as you become more feed efficient, you use less feed.
00:12:55
Speaker
So if you use less feed, there's less use or less need for the raw materials to be grown.
00:13:02
Speaker
There's less transportation required and various aspects of that, which all feed into that environmental sustainability element.
00:13:08
Speaker
Therefore, economic and environmental sustainability are hand in glove.
00:13:12
Speaker
Exactly.
00:13:13
Speaker
And we also, in terms of the ability to then to feed people, that then brings in your social.
00:13:18
Speaker
So again, the fact of by these improvements in efficiencies that the cost of poultry meat comes down and poultry meat is the least expensive of all the proteins.
00:13:27
Speaker
So again, that gives people who want to eat meat that opportunity to eat meat, which is the social aspect.
00:13:35
Speaker
And beyond social, as far as providing a healthy diet, nutritious diet, a plentiful diet to a community, there's also the animal welfare aspect.
00:13:45
Speaker
And of course, that's changing, particularly in our market.
00:13:47
Speaker
We're here in the UK and slower growing or reduced stocking density, etc.
00:13:54
Speaker
better chicken commitment these are phrases that in the retail environment starting to become more present in the marketplace but from the breeder perspective how does it how does it influence your decision making how does it influence your world so in terms of our world against welfare is as you'd rightly touched upon is from the social side because again it's society that chooses what welfare wants to see and
00:14:20
Speaker
and therefore we've got to take that into account and take that as part of what we have both within our programs but also a wider offering and as we touched upon before we have that one of if the market needs it we have alternatives so again it doesn't have to be the bird which is there today we have other birds which are more suited to some of those key elements however the point being is
00:14:46
Speaker
as a starting point, they're not in the same place from the feed efficiency element.
00:14:52
Speaker
So there are differences and there are compromises.
00:14:55
Speaker
And one of the things that as a society we need to know about is
00:14:59
Speaker
invariably there's no such thing as a free lunch.
00:15:02
Speaker
So yes, from the breeding program perspective, we can improve everything for all these birds, we can get, but where's your starting point?
00:15:11
Speaker
And that's the element that as a society we need to take into account, we need to understand what's, where in that balance is the greater emphasis.
00:15:20
Speaker
It's fascinating.
00:15:21
Speaker
I've been in the poultry industry 15 years, a heartbeat compared to your good self.
00:15:28
Speaker
But having spent most of that time between supermarket and primary producer, I'm acutely aware that what people say as shoppers, either individually or through surveys in data and what they actually do,
00:15:49
Speaker
appear quite different.
00:15:51
Speaker
How do you reflect when you're looking at your stable, you know, the 308 at one end of the efficiency curve at the very, very sharp edge of efficiency, economic and therefore environmental sustainability and the slower growing different breeds that you say with a different starting point.
00:16:11
Speaker
How do you reflect on the consumer influence and how we're all driven?
00:16:16
Speaker
I mean, what I would say with that one is that certainly where we are within the market and the balance between the slow-growing offering and the conventional offering is the fact that we have a number of slow-growing offerings, but the amount of the market, the amount that we actually sell is tiny compared to the 308.
00:16:31
Speaker
So the 308 as a conventional bird is the bird of choice within Europe.
00:16:36
Speaker
If you were looking anywhere for a chicken, nine times out of ten, it'd be the Ross 308.
00:16:43
Speaker
I was going to say, Tim, you're a gentleman that's very, very well travelled in the poultry industry.
00:16:51
Speaker
UK, where do you think our consumer stands in terms of some of the discretionary choices that they have available to them and that they're making at shelf level?
00:17:02
Speaker
I mean, what I would say is that certainly Western Europe as a whole is certainly, this is, you know, that conversation in and around the slow-growing bird, in and around the higher welfare bird compared to the conventional, is more acute, is more about.
00:17:18
Speaker
I would say that in terms of where we see this, where they're grown and sold,
00:17:25
Speaker
Western Europe is the main area.
00:17:27
Speaker
The difference between the UK and for example, with the Netherlands, where in the Netherlands, if you're going to retail, you go to the supermarket, all that's available is slow growing birds.
00:17:39
Speaker
Within the UK, we still have choice.
00:17:42
Speaker
So all the offerings are on the shelf.
00:17:44
Speaker
The supermarkets are putting those offerings in place so that people can make the choice.
00:17:48
Speaker
Whereas you've got other areas where that choice has been removed from them.
00:17:55
Speaker
It's a fascinating way of feeding a population and globally, you know, very diverse set of challenges in each location.
00:18:08
Speaker
I want to move on to science.
Research and Advances in Poultry Breeding
00:18:10
Speaker
AviaGen have done a huge amount of research because it's one thing just sort of,
00:18:16
Speaker
breeding for your kind of commercial agenda but it's quite another actually investing in independent and and peer-reviewed science but I know you've been heavily involved with that Tim I wonder if you can bring that to life for us um certainly I mean one of the bits I will say that we've been involved in of late was a was a peer-reviewed piece which was looking at how has how is breeding within the poultry sector changed over the last 20 30 years and
00:18:42
Speaker
And within that is the fact of, as we've mentioned before, that change from the selection purely for production traits, moving into that more holistic approach with multiple traits being selected with that increased focus in terms of the health and welfare traits and also efficiency which is coming in.
00:18:59
Speaker
And within that, we've also shown, which is unusual for a breeding company, we've actually shown our own data and how we fit it and how that fits in with us and showing where we are today and also some of the genetic trends of some of these traits, some of these areas where they are going forward and what we're expecting to see in the field with our customers in the next couple of years.
00:19:20
Speaker
Tim, linked to the academic research and the kind of heavy science, the peer reviewed papers that you've done, I know that you've pulled together perhaps a slightly more reader friendly, digestible version, Decades.
00:19:35
Speaker
I wonder if you could talk to us about what is the Decades report?
00:19:40
Speaker
Who's it for?
00:19:41
Speaker
And what does it tell us?
00:19:42
Speaker
No problem at all, Tom.
00:19:44
Speaker
So in point of that one, it was, as you rightly said, it's about trying to make that peer review paper more digestible.
00:19:49
Speaker
It's looking at what we have, and unlike the peer review paper which is more general, this is then looking purely at the Avergen programmes and looking to see what are they doing, what have we as Avergen brought into those programmes and developed them over the years and what have we seen as the improvements within the programmes.
00:20:11
Speaker
So it's taking some of the genetic trends over the last 10 years to show, yep, okay, we're selecting in these areas, we're going forward, and this is where we expect them to be.
00:20:26
Speaker
It's available on our website, and it's tried to be a far simpler approach to doing it than being tied up with a peer-reviewed paper.
00:20:34
Speaker
So instead of being 20-odd pages, it's...
00:20:39
Speaker
more understandable and more digestible from that approach.
00:20:44
Speaker
And our aim is for people who want to know how we work, who want to have an understanding in terms of, okay, you're a breeding company, what do you do?
00:20:56
Speaker
How are you improving anything?
00:20:58
Speaker
Because again, that perception is all we're about is production traits.
00:21:02
Speaker
All we're about is the fact that over the years, the chicken has become more efficient, the chicken has got bigger,
00:21:08
Speaker
Therefore, you must only be looking at those things and it's about trying to explain that we have that holistic approach and these other elements are in there and that we are going forward on a regular basis that those areas are improving at the same time as well as production traits.
00:21:26
Speaker
The other area we routinely also look at is we are involved with work which is looking at feed and what's the best way of feeding the birds, what are the various options which are there.
00:21:37
Speaker
Because again coming back to that environmental topic and that question around sustainability, we have the whole thing around soya because soya in many respects is the elephant in the corner.
00:21:47
Speaker
I'm glad you
Challenges of Poultry Diets: Soy and Alternatives
00:21:48
Speaker
brought up soya.
00:21:48
Speaker
I was going to ask you about soya because I think as I look at some of the carbon neutral products that are on the shelves today, I'm a layer guy, so apologies for asking a question that probably has its roots in the layer industry, in the egg industry.
00:22:08
Speaker
But a common thread of achieving low carbon or no carbon, as it's marketed, seems to be the removal of soy.
00:22:20
Speaker
In the meat industry, particularly in the conventional breeds, as I understand it, the layman, diet and adaptability of diet is a bit of a no-no.
00:22:35
Speaker
These birds are...
00:22:37
Speaker
bread to perform on a certain ration, reliant on soy.
00:22:42
Speaker
How do we change that?
00:22:43
Speaker
Should we even be looking to change that?
00:22:45
Speaker
Well, I mean, there's two separate elements here.
00:22:49
Speaker
One is the fact that soy on its own has a relatively okay carbon level.
00:22:56
Speaker
The point is its land use change.
00:22:58
Speaker
So the point is, it's when it is to do with the additional carbon which is added onto soya because we're looking at deforestation and trying to prevent deforestation.
00:23:07
Speaker
So there is a penalty applied to soya.
00:23:10
Speaker
where to tie in with deforestation because again, let's be honest, we all know that's not a good thing and therefore we have that land exchange element put in.
00:23:21
Speaker
So when we have that in there, yes, Sawyer is remarkably carbon expensive.
00:23:28
Speaker
However, we have parts of the world which do not have that land use, that issue of deforestation, therefore, soya is less carbon rich, shall I say.
00:23:39
Speaker
And equally within parts of Latin America now, again, we can get certified soya, which is certified as not coming from areas of deforestation.
00:23:49
Speaker
Now, there needs to be a time period involved in that, but there is an agreement in terms of that.
00:23:54
Speaker
So there is potentially options of carrying on using soya but it needs to be, you know, in terms of aware of that land use change element.
00:24:04
Speaker
So that's the first part.
00:24:06
Speaker
The second part is in terms of can the birds grow without soya.
00:24:10
Speaker
We've done trials and we constantly are looking at this in terms of mainly because also it's in terms of how do we feed birds within our breeding program if nothing else as well as at the customer level.
00:24:25
Speaker
So we've done trials where we fed birds with varying levels of soya between normal soya 100% soya ration, 50% soya and removing soya completely and those diets change in terms of their formulation.
00:24:39
Speaker
We find that generally as you remove soy out of the diet, there's an increase in the level of fiber and there's also an increase in the level of oil because you're trying to make up for some of the differences with that soy being removed.
00:24:51
Speaker
It's a wonder product, isn't it?
00:24:52
Speaker
Soy is a feature in the diet, the level of protein and the mix of the amino acids.
00:24:59
Speaker
I'm no nutritionist, but as I understand it, it's basically perfection.
00:25:02
Speaker
It's nirvana, it's utopia from a nutritional point of view.
00:25:04
Speaker
And if you use the whole bean as well, you've got the oil as well.
00:25:07
Speaker
Unfortunately, it seems to also be a crop that's vilified in South America for creating deforestation and without getting too political about it, the farming communities down there wholly reliant on crops for livelihood and difficult conditions.
00:25:28
Speaker
debate to have probably not not one for for this particular podcast but from a you know a western perspective from a you know uk market perspective if we're if we're going to look very very close to home you know a challenge often laid to our industry is about diminishing that reliance and and returning to more locally sourced proteins and
00:25:49
Speaker
we are, you know, we're going to be a net importer of protein, suggesting that we probably need some flexibility in the diet.
00:25:57
Speaker
Do you think that's something that breeding programs in the future will bring into the bird's ability to cope with different diets in different regions?
00:26:08
Speaker
Well again, that's part of the trial work is to test these and see how do the birds perform.
00:26:13
Speaker
So when we looked at this variety in levels of protein, or sorry, same levels of protein but changing the ingredients, we were finding that the birds were still able to perform on these reduced soy rations.
00:26:25
Speaker
Yes, there was a slight difference in terms of a slight reduction in terms of breast meat yield, a slightly worse difference.
00:26:32
Speaker
in terms of the fee conversion, but it was rough, it was not that far removed.
00:26:39
Speaker
The biggest single thing we found within the trial was cost, because again, at the current time, because of the balance, because of the availability of some of these elements, some of these materials,
00:26:49
Speaker
was that moving away from soy was prohibitively expensive.
00:26:52
Speaker
So again, if you're looking at it from the industry as a whole, part of the reason we're still using soy is, as you touched upon, it ticks all these boxes from a nutritionist's point of view and the other options don't quite do it and they're more expensive.
00:27:09
Speaker
That's the thing.
00:27:10
Speaker
As soon as our market is presented with a choice, and you said yourself earlier on, effectively you can't have your cake and eat it.
00:27:22
Speaker
If you've got a choice and you want to do something differently, there is likely to be a cost.
00:27:29
Speaker
Because if it was going to be a saving, we would already be doing it, wouldn't we?
00:27:33
Speaker
Because that's been the driver for the last 50 years.
00:27:35
Speaker
It's been largely economic.
00:27:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:40
Speaker
And yet we're challenged with, you know, solving the conundrum as to how do we feed a growing population in a planet?
00:27:47
Speaker
How do we do more with less, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
00:27:50
Speaker
And at the same time, how do we get away from that?
00:27:54
Speaker
Correct.
00:27:55
Speaker
And this is one of the areas, and certainly within one of the bits, as you rightly said, with poultry is the fact that poultry globally is not a subsidised form of agriculture.
00:28:05
Speaker
So therefore, it's had to make decisions and it's had to make decisions, which means that it can be sold, that people will buy it.
00:28:12
Speaker
So again, if there's a sector which is likely to be able to drive that and move that more forward, it's the poultry sector.
00:28:18
Speaker
It's got a great history.
00:28:19
Speaker
You've got a great story to tell.
00:28:21
Speaker
I think, you know, it's...
00:28:25
Speaker
it's a sorry state of affairs that you look at the growth of the poultry industry.
00:28:29
Speaker
Again, let's just talk UK for a moment, but there's negativity around the scale of growth of the poultry industry.
00:28:37
Speaker
But one has to step back and look globally and think, you know, we've got more and more people eating meat.
00:28:44
Speaker
That's a sign of not only increasing population, but increasing affluence of population.
00:28:51
Speaker
We're able to farm birds in a growing proportion of the world, meaning we can provide a clean and nutritious and efficient and healthy protein source to a much, much greater proportion of the population on the planet.
00:29:11
Speaker
And if people are eating chicken, we are feeding them a low environmental cost, low carbon footprint protein.
00:29:24
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:29:25
Speaker
And this is also something that the UN's food agency have put in and they published within their annual reports is showing that the expectation through to 2030 is that the amount of...
00:29:40
Speaker
the amount of poultry, the amount of meat consumption being produced globally is going up.
00:29:45
Speaker
So the amount of meat being produced growing up globally, the amount of expected consumption is going up globally.
00:29:49
Speaker
But the majority of that increase is coming from poultry.
00:29:53
Speaker
Exactly.
00:29:53
Speaker
Meat production is growing faster than world population growth.
00:29:58
Speaker
More people are eating more meat and yet emissions are doing the opposite.
00:30:03
Speaker
Emissions are falling.
00:30:04
Speaker
And that is
00:30:05
Speaker
down to poultry that's down to the efficiency that guys like you are breeding correct absolutely and and this is the thing and again this is the point which has been made is that yes we have this increased thing but but the expected change in in in the co2 output is not it does not match that increase in increase in production and that and that comes from poultry that comes from the efficiency of poultry and the and the reduction and the lower carbon impact of the bird
00:30:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's a great story.
00:30:32
Speaker
That's kind of the long term trend is doing more with less.
00:30:35
Speaker
We've talked a lot about that.
00:30:37
Speaker
I'm fascinated to learn about the acute pressures because, you know, take COVID three years or whatever ago, dreadful, dreadful time.
00:30:46
Speaker
But there's a huge suddenly interruption in global supply chains.
00:30:49
Speaker
There's a change in consumer behaviour.
00:30:51
Speaker
There's a change in working patterns across the world, etc.,
00:30:55
Speaker
That's one example of an acute, sudden, perhaps predictable but unforeseen change.
00:31:04
Speaker
There might be others such as growing awareness of antibiotic resistance, antimicrobial resistance in human health with animal health really under the spotlight as being a heavy user of antibiotics.
00:31:17
Speaker
How do these sort of acute...
00:31:21
Speaker
immediate pressures shape the breeding programs and the long-term work that you're doing?
00:31:28
Speaker
So in many respects in terms of a number of these it is about how we manage the program rather than not necessarily the program itself.
00:31:35
Speaker
So again within our program we have not used and we use antibiotics only when needed so again it's not something that is routinely given to the animals because again we're looking at genetic potential.
00:31:47
Speaker
and the point of treating animals and giving them antibiotics may cloud what we're seeing.
00:31:52
Speaker
So do we know the difference between bird A and bird B is purely down to the genetic potential or is there something else in there which has boosted it?
00:32:02
Speaker
So again that's part of the reason we do not have antibiotics in our program as part of the routine things.
00:32:07
Speaker
We will treat birds if they're sick.
00:32:09
Speaker
So has that changed where we were 10 years ago?
00:32:13
Speaker
No, that's the way that we've always worked to look because again, it's all about that genetic improvement.
00:32:20
Speaker
Other elements which are into how do we manage that?
00:32:23
Speaker
How do we look at how do we work with people?
00:32:25
Speaker
Because elements like COVID, that's one of the ones which, again, that's how about the management of our people and doing these things.
00:32:31
Speaker
And also, I want to get into the farms and how the farms themselves sort of feed back into your work.
00:32:40
Speaker
But we're going to take a quick break.
00:32:42
Speaker
Just as a reminder, you're listening to the Sustainability Hub brought to you by Poultry Network.
00:32:46
Speaker
My name's Tom Willings.
00:32:47
Speaker
I'm here with Tim Burnside, the Global Vice President for Welfare, Sustainability and Compliance at the Avigen Group.
00:32:53
Speaker
And a reminder, you're listening to the Sustainability Hub brought to you by Poultry Network.
00:33:00
Speaker
Tim, we've had a great conversation about the breeding program and about we're just starting to get into the Aviagen team.
00:33:07
Speaker
And I think you said 8000 employees globally.
00:33:11
Speaker
I'm fascinated to learn about the relationship between Aviagen and the network of industry.
00:33:21
Speaker
Hatcheries, breeder farms.
00:33:24
Speaker
actual commercial growers, processors.
00:33:27
Speaker
How does that all work?
00:33:29
Speaker
So what we have there is that we have people within our business whose time is spent, the technical experts, who spend the time to go and see your customers, to see what they're doing, but equally to try and help and give advice.
00:33:41
Speaker
So one of the bits is,
00:33:43
Speaker
Spending time with those people gives feedback into the loop in terms of how we make changes with the breeding program, how that filters in, because again that lets us know what our customers' pressures and needs are and how they see the product performing, which helps us in terms of making some of our choices and are we in the right place, are we making this the right focus in terms of the choices we make within the program.
00:34:08
Speaker
At the same time, that also gives the opportunity or part of the training element, part of the bit of passing on the skills, because the bird of today is not the same as the bird of yesterday.
00:34:18
Speaker
Because one of the things that we have within the poultry sector is that many people have done it for a long time.
00:34:24
Speaker
And the line that they usually give you is, I've done this, it's the way I've done it for the last 20 years, which is great.
00:34:30
Speaker
Oh, I've heard that.
00:34:31
Speaker
I've heard that in my time, yeah.
00:34:32
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:34:33
Speaker
That's great if you got the bird of 20 years ago, but we don't.
00:34:37
Speaker
So part of the thing we need to be doing is that we need to be upskilling or training or providing information in terms of the management one on how do you manage the birds, how do you get the birds from the birds, because it changes over time.
00:34:51
Speaker
And I guess that's a two-way process, is it?
00:34:54
Speaker
You're learning from ground level, from those that are doing the do day in, day out, and then your team are sharing their insights along with their knowledge of what the bird is capable of doing and the conditions that the bird needs to be kept in, et cetera, et cetera.
00:35:09
Speaker
You're sharing that as well.
00:35:10
Speaker
Correct.
00:35:11
Speaker
It's a two-way process.
00:35:12
Speaker
It's a two-way process and it has to be because, again, it's the point of view, it's the fact of,
00:35:18
Speaker
The customer has to be assured that we are listening to them and again we are making changes to meet their needs.
00:35:27
Speaker
But again it's also about where are the changes, what do we need to do, where are the gaps.
00:35:32
Speaker
So again we talked about trials and work before, we do that in terms of management because as I said the management needs are changing.
00:35:42
Speaker
And it's not all about genetics.
00:35:44
Speaker
I mentioned earlier, I think, the fact that, you know, roughly about 80% of what goes into the bird and producing the bird and growing it is down to management.
00:35:54
Speaker
I read this in one of your papers that you kindly circulated before we sat down.
00:35:59
Speaker
And it highlighted, I think, just how little an influence in outcome the system had versus the management.
00:36:10
Speaker
So it wasn't about housing environment or stocking density, etc.
00:36:14
Speaker
Actually, it was about the human element on the
00:36:16
Speaker
Yes.
00:36:17
Speaker
Tell us about that.
00:36:18
Speaker
So I think the particular bit which making reference to Tom was a study which was done in the Netherlands.
00:36:23
Speaker
So it was done by another group rather than ourselves, which was looking at how birds are growing in the Netherlands with different farming systems.
00:36:29
Speaker
So within the Netherlands, I know I mentioned earlier in terms of in the supermarket, it's all this little growing.
00:36:35
Speaker
but they also have conventional birds as well, they go for export.
00:36:39
Speaker
So within the Dutch system they have different concepts which involve a combination of different growth rates and different farming systems.
00:36:48
Speaker
And within this study there was a comparison which was done across
00:36:52
Speaker
the four different systems which were in place and it was looking at the welfare outcomes both from the bird itself, so the resource-based elements and also some of the resources.
00:37:03
Speaker
So in other words, how was the shed set up, how was stocking density and elements like that.
00:37:09
Speaker
And when you look at it purely on the basis of the outputs of the bird itself, so you're only looking at the animal, so again, it's that concept of what is the welfare that the bird perceives rather than necessarily what is the wider one that you think makes the bird.
00:37:24
Speaker
you think improves it, then what we saw was that the differences between the systems was much smaller.
00:37:29
Speaker
So yes, there was a difference between the slow-growing birds and the conventional birds, but at the same time we had farms where the welfare score was higher for the Ross 308 than the slow-growing bird, but conversely we had some of the slow-growing birds with a lower welfare score
00:37:47
Speaker
than the ROS 308.
00:37:48
Speaker
So again, management is key.
00:37:51
Speaker
How people look after and grow their birds is as important, or if not more so, than either the genetics or the resources available to them.
00:38:01
Speaker
I think that's a really powerful message for a market.
00:38:06
Speaker
Market's a casual word.
00:38:07
Speaker
If I refer to the market as being the grower, in my experience, you give a bird to a
00:38:17
Speaker
laying farmer and occasionally in their mind they've got a prejudiced view as to what's going to happen.
00:38:25
Speaker
They know what the outcome is going to be.
00:38:26
Speaker
In their mind they think they know what the outcome is going to be.
00:38:31
Speaker
If you can demonstrate with your people
00:38:34
Speaker
that actually the biggest difference is you is the human being it's the way you apply your knowledge and your care and your attention to the environment that you're creating for the bird and that is what's going to lead to an outcome that's an incredibly powerful message and I suppose links into your network of clubs and incentive schemes and and other work that drive continuous improvement at ground level which is you know I think I'd love you to talk about that actually if you would
00:39:02
Speaker
So I was just going to touch the first element that yes, you're right in terms of management is key and how people look after and how they look after the animal is essential.
00:39:16
Speaker
And the clubs are set up to help in terms of not, it gives that combination of
00:39:24
Speaker
a friendly level of rivalry because you're completing against others but what we're looking for in all the clubs is to try and reach for improvements when those improvements are multifactorial and again that overall helps the sector, it helps poultry globally and feeds in around.
00:39:44
Speaker
So again with some of the bits with the clubs it's not just
00:39:47
Speaker
us as our vision giving tips, it's the fact that you have those focal points, those meeting points and farmers talking to farmers will pass on tips as well.
00:39:56
Speaker
And that's another one of the benefits that these give.
00:39:58
Speaker
It's the fact that if it's not just from our vision going, this is the way you do it.
00:40:03
Speaker
We have people who are getting good results saying, this is how we did it.
00:40:07
Speaker
I think it's a phenomenal blend.
00:40:08
Speaker
I have to say I tip my hat to that continuous improvement work of celebrating success at farm level, while at the same time investing very heavily in science and scientific development internally.
00:40:28
Speaker
We're going to talk about genomics in a moment.
00:40:31
Speaker
with then the combination of an independent overview with scientific research that then backs up all of your claims and validates the progress that you're making.
00:40:40
Speaker
I think you put those three things together and it's a compelling story.
00:40:46
Speaker
Let's just go back to the breed programme in it because I really want to learn more about genomics.
Genomics in Poultry Breeding
00:40:51
Speaker
Can you just explain what genomics is?
00:40:53
Speaker
I mean, so genomics is looking at...
00:40:56
Speaker
the birds on a genetic level, it's looking at what we have in terms of the genetic makeup of the animals and we are able to increase what we're looking at.
00:41:07
Speaker
So again, I mentioned before the fact that one of the things which allows us to make better selections is having better data and what genomics allows us to do is in certain areas look at traits before they're necessarily expressed.
00:41:22
Speaker
So it's the fact that
00:41:23
Speaker
On one hand, when we're looking at, for example, egg production, we can actually make choices before the bird goes onto a laying farm about how it will perform, how it will lay eggs, what number of eggs it will be laying.
00:41:38
Speaker
So we actually get information about that expectation because it's got good genes.
00:41:41
Speaker
So therefore that fits in without necessarily relying upon data from its mothers, its aunts, its aunts etc.
00:41:50
Speaker
that how they performed and therefore we expect from the information from there that we bring that in.
00:41:56
Speaker
So it adds an extra level of information and extra knowledge there.
00:42:00
Speaker
The other thing that genomics does is it allows at a simple level within our breeding program, it allows us to assign parents.
00:42:08
Speaker
One of the things we used to do was have males and females housed together in very small groups because again what we need to be able to do to do anything from a pedigree level is know who the parents are.
00:42:23
Speaker
know when we have a day old chick who are the parents because that lets us because again that's that history that knowledge that understanding and one of the things that we brought within our programs is sire assignments so that means that we look at we have the ability to look at a chick and know
00:42:38
Speaker
who its parents were.
00:42:39
Speaker
So it means that we're able to move away from a situation that we used to house one male with 10 females to a situation where it's like a normal pen.
00:42:49
Speaker
So what the type of thing you would see below perigree level, they're all running around together.
00:42:55
Speaker
because we can go back the way afterwards and check who the parents are.
00:42:58
Speaker
What that allows us is the fact that we get better males because instead of being just, you know, the male will always have the 10 females, no, no, the males have to compete.
00:43:09
Speaker
So we also can then get behaviours in terms of mating come in and we can look at.
00:43:14
Speaker
And going forward there's always the potential of looking at some of those aspects in there as well.
00:43:19
Speaker
So these are things which genomics brings us and it just helps within the programme and it gives us more information, more data, which allows us more accurate selections.
00:43:28
Speaker
I was going to ask you about two specific welfare outcome measures that, you know, that's a term that we use a great deal, isn't it, in our market.
00:43:36
Speaker
We're retail driven and we want to be able to measure the success in improving the condition of our farm animals.
00:43:46
Speaker
And, you know, in the statistics that you shared with me, and again, a reminder to our listeners that those slides are available on the Sustainability Hub tab on the Poultry Network website.
00:43:59
Speaker
There's marked improvement in foot pad dermatitis, pododermatitis and gait score in recent years.
00:44:07
Speaker
Is that a hallmark of improvement?
00:44:09
Speaker
Genomics specifically, or is that simply focus on selection and the multifactorial elements of selection?
00:44:18
Speaker
So genomics adds in, it brings in data, but it doesn't replace anything.
00:44:22
Speaker
It just brings in more data and allows that accuracy.
00:44:25
Speaker
But in terms of where we're seeing those improvements, no, that's down to the fact of the focus in looking at those traits and the weighting of those traits within the balance and the element there and having those reliable, repeatable measures so we can actually see it.
00:44:42
Speaker
Because one of the things also we have done within our programmes is that we've got to remember that to be able to select against a trait, we've got to see it in the programme.
00:44:53
Speaker
So we've actually, whereas normally you would consider that the pedigree environment is marvellous, it's wonderful, that on its own means that sometimes we don't see it.
00:45:02
Speaker
So we also have... You've got to create a realistic environment to see these traits.
00:45:06
Speaker
Well what we do sitting side by side is we have what we would describe as a multi-environment selection.
00:45:12
Speaker
So we have the brothers and sisters of those animals sitting in our pedigree environment.
00:45:16
Speaker
sitting in an environment which is closest to commercial reality or perhaps a poorly managed commercial reality.
00:45:23
Speaker
So again we can then see how are those animals performing in that environment as well as how they're performing in the pedigree environment and what we're looking for is birds which perform, families which perform well in both environments.
00:45:36
Speaker
Again the ones in the other environment they don't come back into the program.
00:45:40
Speaker
that's once they go into that that's them there nothing comes back in because again that's whole part of the element with the buying security that we have within our programs and how important it is to keep it clean because as we've talked about we're at the top of the food chain so anything so we've got to ensure that we have nothing which comes down and passes through the process.
Global Biosecurity Practices and Challenges
00:46:00
Speaker
You mentioned biosecurity, obviously, with the avian flu globally, absolutely rife and raging.
00:46:08
Speaker
There wouldn't be too many lessons that you haven't learned on how to keep livestock safe and clean.
00:46:13
Speaker
What do you see as you go around and your travels by way of biosecurity in contrast between markets?
00:46:20
Speaker
Well, all I would say is that biosecurity is a risk management process and you've got to bear in mind what's the value of the stock, what's the possibility of disease, and what's the outcome if your stock get that disease.
00:46:33
Speaker
And therefore you need to take that into account and therefore the more valuable you, therefore where that is, you will increase levels.
00:46:40
Speaker
So certainly, I mean, globally we see vastly different approaches to biosecurity.
00:46:44
Speaker
But what I would say,
00:46:46
Speaker
is that biosecurity is as much as a state of mind.
00:46:49
Speaker
It's a way of thinking.
00:46:50
Speaker
And what you tend to find is that people who think in a biosecure fashion act in a biosecure fashion.
00:46:56
Speaker
Because if you want to put things in place, you've got to remember at the end of the day, people have to do it.
00:47:03
Speaker
And if you don't get that mentality in place, you may have what you think is a great system, but people might not do it.
00:47:10
Speaker
So that's where, as I said, you've got to remember that that's part of the process.
00:47:14
Speaker
You can't just simply say to people, I want you to do this and expect that to happen.
00:47:19
Speaker
Where do you see sort of best practice?
00:47:22
Speaker
I know, Avigen, in the US, your sites are certified as biosecure.
00:47:27
Speaker
Sounds like quite an accolade.
00:47:29
Speaker
But if we sort of come down a level and we just talk about business and industry globally, where do you see the signs of sort of best in class performance on biosecurity?
00:47:41
Speaker
You see them in, well, for example, Europe performs, generally performs very well.
00:47:49
Speaker
Because again, it comes down to what are you considering the value, what do you consider the importance, and you're putting in place systems and the fact that people are following those systems.
00:47:59
Speaker
So, you know, it's that element of, yeah, we have a dedicated entrance, you know, we have sharing in facilities, we have elements like that.
00:48:08
Speaker
So again, as you move into those,
00:48:10
Speaker
those increase your level of biosecurity, they reduce the risk.
00:48:14
Speaker
And so you tend to see where you have a significant number of animals or you have significant value in terms of generation.
00:48:22
Speaker
So again, what you tend to find is yes, pedigree will have much far higher, far greater than moving to grandparent, moving to gen, etc, etc, coming down.
00:48:32
Speaker
So you have that there.
00:48:35
Speaker
We're talking sustainability, biosecurity, obviously part of part of sustainability, but, you know, coming right back closer to home just as an opportunity to call out great work from your colleagues perspective.
00:48:52
Speaker
Any sort of stories that you'd you'd want to share?
00:48:55
Speaker
I mean, certainly, I mean, the point was the point of sustainability.
00:48:57
Speaker
We've got the fact that what what as Average and brings to the industry, which we've talked about earlier, which is that fact that within our program and the feed efficiency, which drives down.
00:49:05
Speaker
But at the same time, it's not just about that.
00:49:08
Speaker
It's also what we do ourselves.
00:49:10
Speaker
What can we look at?
00:49:11
Speaker
Where can we see to make these improvements?
00:49:13
Speaker
So again, you have the simple ones of when we look at it, you need to consider what resources come into your system.
00:49:20
Speaker
So what other than feed?
00:49:21
Speaker
Because again, we've talked about feed and the elements there.
00:49:25
Speaker
But what other resources come into your system?
00:49:26
Speaker
What can you look at?
00:49:27
Speaker
What can you make changes on?
00:49:28
Speaker
So we're seeing that.
00:49:31
Speaker
one of solar coming in vastly within various bits of the business.
00:49:35
Speaker
I mean if we take for example hatcheries and farms also have got a lot of roof which means you can put a lot of solar panels up which will help in terms of reducing your electricity which depending upon the part of the world you're in will have a lesser or greater impact.
00:49:53
Speaker
We also have elements such as you have water coming in, we use water as a resource, we use that for cleaning, we use it for the birds themselves, we use it also in terms of vaccination.
00:50:04
Speaker
So we have water, where does that water come from?
00:50:07
Speaker
How are we treating it?
00:50:08
Speaker
Is there elements that we can reuse it?
00:50:10
Speaker
So for example we now have within the UK both within our vet lab and also within a hatchery we have systems in place to purify water.
00:50:18
Speaker
Previously we bought bottled water.
00:50:21
Speaker
We now have a system in place where we have purification in-house which means that we've removed that step.
00:50:26
Speaker
We no longer have that in place.
00:50:28
Speaker
Has that improved the sustainability of the system?
00:50:30
Speaker
Yes.
00:50:32
Speaker
Little by little building blocks together.
00:50:34
Speaker
Exactly.
00:50:35
Speaker
Because again, it's like within the breeding program, if you add lots of little bits together, you get a big jump.
00:50:41
Speaker
It doesn't have to be a big jump all at once.
00:50:43
Speaker
Just take those small steps.
00:50:45
Speaker
Because sustainability is a journey.
00:50:47
Speaker
We're all traveling along it and we're at different points.
00:50:50
Speaker
And again, it's where we are and how we move forward and what we're looking to do.
00:50:55
Speaker
Is that a great way of wrapping up there, Tim, where we say, you know, there is no silver bullet to, you know, the long term goal of mitigating our impact.
00:51:09
Speaker
It is about the small, incremental, continual, never ending steps to improvement.
00:51:17
Speaker
And no matter how small a step forward it might be, they all count, they all add up, they all aggregate.
Continuous Improvement in Sustainability and Conclusion
00:51:23
Speaker
And, you know, we need not lose sight of the fact that we're making progress.
00:51:28
Speaker
Correct.
00:51:29
Speaker
Yes, because, again, progress is progress is progress.
00:51:33
Speaker
The fact, again, if we're making any progress, it's progress.
00:51:37
Speaker
And we need to think about it in that one.
00:51:40
Speaker
Because, again, a lot of the big steps, they've already happened.
00:51:45
Speaker
So we're not going to see giant leaps now because again, if it was easy, we'd already have done it.
00:51:53
Speaker
So sustainability is a topic and there's a journey.
00:51:55
Speaker
I hate the journey word, but let's use it here, is a very, very long term.
00:51:59
Speaker
And Aviagen and they've got roots going back nearly 100 years in breeding chickens.
00:52:03
Speaker
It makes an awful lot of sense that we're not about to suddenly solve.
00:52:08
Speaker
every challenge that's in front of us today but little by little step by step we're definitely making inroads in in the right direction so avia jen have been breeding chickens for nearly 100 years roots of the business in the in the 1930s it sounds as though the journey toward a sustainable future is a continual one it's a never-ending one tim it's what keeps you
00:52:31
Speaker
coming back after now 30 years in the business.
00:52:35
Speaker
Tim, thank you so much for joining us today.
00:52:38
Speaker
Again, Tim Burnside, Global VP for Welfare, Sustainability and Compliance at the Aviagen Group.
00:52:44
Speaker
Thank you to Aviagen, one of our sponsors for the Sustainability Hub, and thank you to all of our sponsors.
00:52:50
Speaker
So thank you for listening to this episode.
00:52:52
Speaker
Don't forget to sign up to the Poultry Network newsletter in case you haven't done that already.
00:52:57
Speaker
and subscribe to this podcast feed wherever you get your podcasts.
00:53:02
Speaker
And we'll be along with the next edition next month.