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Episode 46: What Online Will Sites Don't Want You To Know
12 Plays1 month ago
Ever thought about using an online service to draft your Will? Think again! Join us as we review some of the most popular online will-making services and point out the disturbing fine print most people don't see.
We're breaking down everything from misleading marketing tricks to the most common pitfalls we see, including legally invalid documents and the fine print that could leave your family in a bind. Discover why one-size-fits-all just doesn’t cut it when your assets and family's future are on the line.
Join us every Wednesday for new episodes! Subscribe now to get notified.
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of One of Us Knows What They're Talking About and the other one is you. I'm Lori Birch, your host. Join us as we discuss and unpack wills, trusts, estate planning, and probate law in a way that's actually informative, interesting, and well, hopefully
The Importance of Having a Will
00:00:22
Speaker
entertaining. Because if you don't have a will, the state of Texas has one for you.
00:00:27
Speaker
Let's dive in.
Critique of Online Legal Document Services
00:00:40
Speaker
So today we're going to rant about something that's probably one of my favorite rants is this online despicable legal planning documents, services, what have you.
00:00:59
Speaker
And we talk a lot about how terrible these things are. And the reason we talk a lot about how terrible these things are really twofold. One, they're that terrible.
00:01:13
Speaker
And two we are the ones who have to fix or try to help mitigate the fallout of this terrible stuff.
00:01:24
Speaker
So before we, so we're going to do like a review. of some of these sites. And I've only looked at like the two big ones, but I hope that my colleagues here, don't know why that made me laugh calling you all colleagues.
00:01:42
Speaker
I should have looked at Cynthia when I said it. ah My colleagues here, hopefully you looked at some of the other ones that are out there to glean some of their greatest hits of stuff that they have on their sites that that's what should scare bejesus out of you is looking at this stuff.
Common Issues with DIY Wills
00:02:00
Speaker
But let's first do a nice overview of the end results that we see, just a quick one, because we've spent episodes going through this and and we'll spend future episodes going through this, but I do wanna hit on a few highlights.
00:02:18
Speaker
One of the biggest issues, and we are gonna go through this, I need to pull up this actual will that we saw one time, um is they don't get signed correctly.
00:02:29
Speaker
And this is probably the biggest trigger for Sam because she oversees yeah most of the signings. and so she just is is not baffled anymore. We've come to expect it.
00:02:47
Speaker
But why it's so hard for people to get documents signed correctly. And so, Sam, what's your bid what's been your experience?
00:02:59
Speaker
whether it's been when we've done offsite signings, so documents prepared for us, instructions given by us, or you've seen the results of when people come to us in there, are they tried to do the DIY online will sites. What what are some of the highlights that you've seen?
00:03:19
Speaker
A lot of them, and this is not going to be shocking for anybody, are just not signed correctly overall. all they're it But what what do you see that they do? Like, why is this so difficult? Spoiler alert, we have no idea. Because there's even some services, they'll give like instructions, and they're good instructions.
00:03:39
Speaker
I'm going to use an example of that. Yeah. um But like we've had one where they've missed one entire witness page. um They don't initial everything. um It'll say clearly like in our instructions that the person who is witnessing, they can't be related to you or in the documents and then they will have their...
00:04:02
Speaker
witness um those are usually the most common ones and then we had that weird one um of an off-site signing where they had the same people witness but it on one page it was a different date the second page was another date and then the trust document was a third different date And it's like, how do you even do that? Sam, they'll get to it when they get to it.
00:04:27
Speaker
page a day. That's what we say. a day.
00:04:34
Speaker
Yeah.
Impact of Invalid Wills on Probate
00:04:36
Speaker
i i went I would estimate that of the hundreds of DIY online wills that we've reviewed.
00:04:45
Speaker
And when do you think we're reviewing them as a probate firm?
00:04:52
Speaker
I have an idea. It's my go. When people are dead and nothing can be done about it. Right. So if we find out that there's an issue, it is the literal definition of too late, right?
00:05:05
Speaker
That is usually to find out because it's not like, oh, I did this online will and that was probably awful. So maybe I should have an attorney review it. No, if you, these people, if they would have gone to an attorney, they would have gone to an attorney originally. So it was when your family members have to use an attorney because they're nine out of 10 times you're going to have to use an attorney in the state of Texas to go through any sort of probate process to transfer or sell or liquidate assets.
00:05:35
Speaker
That's when they find out. And it then is absolutely 1000% too late. and so i would estimate that probably seventy percent of the time and i think i'm being generous So I think it's probably more.
00:05:54
Speaker
But 70% of the time, there's a problem with how they were signed, meaning they are not valid, meaning they won't work, meaning that you can't just show it to a judge or family and show what someone's intent would be.
00:06:13
Speaker
It doesn't work that way. I'm actually involved with the situation right now where um there's a transfer on death deed that apparently somebody did to, she deeded her home and a transfer on death deed is, Sarah, what's a transfer on death deed?
00:06:32
Speaker
It sounds like a deed that transfers when you die. Absolutely. 100%. Knock that out of the park. Yes. So it's something that people do. It's not a one size fits all. There are steps you have to take.
00:06:47
Speaker
Well, I'm getting to that. So we're dealing with one right now where there was a transfer on death deed for somebody. And again, the reason this comes into my world is because someone has passed.
00:07:00
Speaker
And they did not record it or you want to use more layman's terms, file it with the county where the property is located.
00:07:11
Speaker
There are different rules around when a deed needs to be filed and when it becomes valid, depending on the type of deed. So I'm being very specific here that in Texas, for a transfer on death deed, there is a different requirement that it must be recorded, filed with the county before death.
00:07:36
Speaker
Not all these work that way. Sometimes you can you can file them or record them posthumously. Sarah, what does posthumously mean?
00:07:47
Speaker
After death.
00:07:51
Speaker
Post. Oh my gosh. but um My phone thought that Sarah was Siri. You know, that would be cool if that were your voice.
00:08:07
Speaker
oh Oh, yeah. we need We need to explore that a little bit
Humor Break: Celebrity Voices
00:08:15
Speaker
more. Like, what would it be like if Alexa or Siri were Sarah's voice?
00:08:21
Speaker
Peggy's new voice? did you Did you see those commercials? I think they were just a couple years ago where Alexa got sick.
00:08:35
Speaker
Oh my gosh, this is good stuff. So um I'm not going to keep saying the name because she keeps turning on. ah Because I have one in my pod. No, they, um and so they show how they got these celebrities to step in and help. And I think my favorite one is this guy says,
00:08:59
Speaker
You guys say the the word because then mine won't hear it. So the guy says, Alexa. alexa Right. What's a recipe for grilled cheese sandwich?
00:09:10
Speaker
And on the other end, it's, oh, who's that? Oh, my gosh, that famous chef. I'm totally blanking. Gordon Ramsay? Gordon Ramsay. And he's like, ah recipe for a grilled cheese sandwich. The recipe is in the name, you idiot.
00:09:26
Speaker
And then it's just like several celebrities that are stepping in. And but anyway, I think Sarah as the voice of these, not just the voice, but really it's got to be your personality.
00:09:42
Speaker
And actually, I think that's that ah that's a very good example that I used unintentionally where, hey Sarah, what's a recipe for a grilled cheese sandwich? And first of all, there'd be this like hesitation and leaning in, but no words coming out yeah for a few seconds.
Misunderstandings in DIY Will Instructions
00:10:01
Speaker
But how would the device lean Yeah. So um cheese that you grill... but
00:10:18
Speaker
We may be on to something. Man. Yeah. Oh, man. to Everything's. Do you remember the John Legend one?
00:10:27
Speaker
The which one? The John Legend voice. Oh, no. He lent it to something. I think it was Alexa. And it was really like I could deal with that voice instead of the regular Alexa voice.
00:10:44
Speaker
Yeah, I need to find a clip of that commercial and send it to you guys. It's pretty good. um
00:10:51
Speaker
Grilled cheese sandwich. The recipe's in the title. um Anyway, why on earth? Oh, because i asked Sarah a question and my Siri thought I was talking to it.
00:11:04
Speaker
ah Posthumously. So for a transfer of death deed, the requirement is for it to be valid is it has to be recorded before death. Otherwise it doesn't exist. And here's the thing. it There's no showing what someone's intent or wishes are. and in fact, unless you pull out a Ouija board or have a seance,
00:11:25
Speaker
I don't really think just because a document was drafted, you really can say that was someone's intent. I mean, sometimes people write things up and there's a reason they don't get it signed. There's a reason they don't get it filed. There's a reason maybe they decided they didn't want to do that.
00:11:42
Speaker
Right. Or they decided to update it with a later document or do something else. So the idea that this can just be someone's intent, um, But yes, there are many signing requirements. And then it really is, shockingly enough, one of the biggest downsides that and we see to this. I'd love to tell you it's all our super special secret sauce language that we use. And that's that's part of it too.
00:12:07
Speaker
But ah if they if they aren't signed correctly, they don't work. So to, because I feel like we could go on and on about this stuff, frankly. I wanna use an example of one that we saw just recently.
00:12:21
Speaker
And this is from one of the big ones that you see advertised, one of these DIY sites. And so again, you're not working with a firm or an attorney where you're going into a physical space. You are meant to get this signed, witness, notarized, what have you, all on your own.
00:12:39
Speaker
And so they send you instructions. I'm going to read these instructions very quickly. This is a better visual. Unfortunately, I love doing this in webinars and seminars. This is a better visual, but I'm going to try and walk you through it to get get the idea.
00:12:51
Speaker
But these are the instructions that come from one of the sites that we're going to review here in a moment. Sign and notarize. Find two witnesses and a notary that are at least 18 years old, not related to you, not included in your will.
00:13:04
Speaker
Sign your will while the witnesses and the notary watch. Have each witness sign and complete the witness page while you, the notary, and the other witness watch. Have the notary complete the notary page and collect additional signatures required from you and your witnesses.
00:13:20
Speaker
Now, either I've been doing this too long, or I think that's very simple, plain language, easy to follow and understand. um So much so, so I'm actually giving one of these online sites a compliment that I think their signing instructions are very, very good.
00:13:35
Speaker
So much so that I don't even know that our instructions are this clear, which is why
Misleading Promises by DIY Will Sites
00:13:40
Speaker
we just prefer you to come to our office and do it yourself. So then we read that and we flip over the witness signature page and it says witness signatures at the top.
00:13:51
Speaker
And it has a line that says first witness signature. And then it has a line that says second witness signature. And then there's other lines, first witness printed name, second witness printed name, date, date, first witness address, second witness address.
00:14:05
Speaker
Everything is blank. Everything except that on both the first witness signature line and the second witness signature line has in slash A. It's not applicable. It's fine. Yeah. doesn't apply to them.
00:14:24
Speaker
The witness is just one of you. it also has the ah the person's initials, GG.
00:14:38
Speaker
gigi They signed off on it that now I see you, Texas, but I live free. i don't need to abide by your statutory requirements. You can't box me in. Don't tread on me.
00:14:54
Speaker
I'm going to do whatever I want. And i yeah, i it's baffling. But yes, um this is a big issue. We could go on and on and trust me, we have and we will when it comes to the end result of these things. But I think it's time to turn our attention to actually looking at these sites.
00:15:16
Speaker
And the problem with DIY planning is right there in clear sight. Like you just have to look like they're, they're basically advertising.
00:15:30
Speaker
We suck.
00:15:33
Speaker
Don't do this. This is a bad idea. Like it's basically right there. So I wanna start with one of my favorite parts.
00:15:44
Speaker
And then i know i you all can look at whichever site you want, but I really want my colleagues, let me look at Cynthia so I don't laugh, my colleagues um to point out ones that they found that they find egregious. But on one of the biggest, probably the mother of all DIY sites, rhymes with legal doom.
00:16:08
Speaker
um they have on here where they have pros and cons of DIY wills.
00:16:15
Speaker
And I want to tell you, well now I'm going to ask you, Sarah, as our marketing coordinator,
00:16:25
Speaker
do we have anything on our website, social media, our blogs, or anything that says, hey, here is here's a downside of using us
00:16:39
Speaker
You know, I don't think we do. Like, maybe you shouldn't. Like, maybe don't.
00:16:49
Speaker
But they do. They do. They have cons of DIY wells. And this is probably the best written section of their website.
00:17:00
Speaker
It says, even the pros listed above could have potential cons attached in the future. The following are a few cons you'll want to consider if you're planning to do your own will.
00:17:13
Speaker
Number one, risk of errors or remissions. One disadvantage of, well, one, one of many of DIY wills is that it's easy to overlook important lingual language or fail to account for specific estate planning needs.
00:17:28
Speaker
Serious mistakes can easily arise from unclear language, improper execution, or failure to follow state laws. Unfortunately, these errors and omissions could lead to the will being contested or even declared invalid.
00:17:45
Speaker
Again, Sarah, as our marketing coordinator, one day director, certainly, or on any given day, you give you you give yourself that title. Is there anywhere on our website where it says, look, if you use our services, it may not be valid.
00:18:03
Speaker
It could be contested. Like, it's just, these are the things that could happen, like anywhere. No, but maybe maybe we should if it's that easy.
00:18:13
Speaker
yes Okay, next con of DIY Wells, financial implications. Oh my God, I can't even believe this. I cannot read this.
00:18:24
Speaker
I can't. Okay. The money you save now as you create a last will online could end up costing your estate and or your heirs money later if the will isn't valid or its validity ends up being contested because it wasn't written well enough to withstand objections.
00:18:43
Speaker
For instance, your heirs may need to hire professionals probate attorneys to so sort out details or file a probate litigation lawsuit.
00:18:55
Speaker
Let's keep going. but This, oh my gosh. Time consuming, time consuming. This is real. This on their website. This isn't the dark web, hey, or this isn't even our website. Like, you guys, don't do DIY. This is the problem. Like, we have a lot of stuff about why DIY is bad, but we don't even bag on it as hard as their own site does.
00:19:22
Speaker
why don't Sarah, why don't we take this and just say, hey, don't believe us about DIY wills. Listen to them. This is what they've said themselves. right So um not suitable for complex estates. estates DIY wills can fail to take into account specific estate planning needs. Now, estate planning needs is like bolded and highlighted as a hyperlink.
00:19:47
Speaker
I wonder what that goes to. Anyway, such as avoiding potential estate taxes, blended families, parentheses, i.e., those with children from a previous relationship, close parentheses, may need extra legal guidance that DIY options don't always provide.
00:20:04
Speaker
Therefore, if you have a large estate that is subject to estate taxes, currently about $13 million, that includes complicated assets such as multiple properties, businesses, large investments, or involves unique blended family dynamics like second marriages or children from different relationships, a DIY will may not be the most comprehensive solution for your estate.
00:20:26
Speaker
Complex legal requirements that vary by state. Remember, the state laws regarding will execution vary greatly, and some DIY will sites may not take that into consideration when preparing your last will. I can't even handle reading it.
00:20:41
Speaker
Some jurisdictions, for example, require a certain number of witnesses present at the will's signing and or the seal of a notary public. Not all online DIY templates comply. Look, let me start over.
00:20:56
Speaker
Not all online DIY templates comply with state-specific laws regarding how the will should be signed or stored, and failure failure to follow these laws can make the will invalid or lead to complications down the road.
00:21:12
Speaker
But, Lori, they have guidance at every turn. It says it on their website. We'll get to that. Trust me. um Legal dooms templates have been drafted and reviewed by local attorneys in each state. yeah We'll talk about that and come with legal guidance as you go through the process.
00:21:31
Speaker
Finally, Limited flexibility. Because DIY wills are templated estate planning documents, they lack the flexibility and customization needed for specific situations such as tax planning and establishing trusts.
00:21:47
Speaker
Never mind, they'll sell you a trust, but then they're going to say they lack the flexibility and customization needed for specific situations like establishing a trust. And in fact, we dealt with clients not long ago that did it. And why is it always the clients that get it signed correctly that didn't have huge problems, but they signed it correctly. They lost the homestead exemption on their house.
00:22:11
Speaker
Yay. ah It's best to work in concert with an attorney as an expert source to answer your unique questions as you craft your own will.
Revisiting DIY Will Problems and Professional Advice
00:22:20
Speaker
So much more that we can uncover there. But I mean, you know, really?
00:22:25
Speaker
DIY online will site? I couldn't have said it better myself.
00:22:31
Speaker
That sounds a lot of alarms to me. So i I'm potentially stop talking for a second. What did the rest of you find, whether it's on this site? And I know we had a lot of fun when, ah in a recent episode, we talked about ah horrible trend where we've got other professionals who are not licensed attorneys, ah namely financial planners who have, which by the way, these allow financial planners and even attorneys, shame on you, ah but financial planners, realtors, insurance people to sign up and provide these services to people.
00:23:07
Speaker
And so there is a website that we looked at and We didn't realize, but we did on these, that when you go to the terms of service, there's a treasure trove of red flags. um So there's some good stuff there. So I'm potentially going to be quiet for a minute, besides my interjections.
00:23:24
Speaker
And i want my colleagues, look at Cynthia, I want my colleagues to share some things that they found that they thought were interesting about any any and all of these sites.
00:23:37
Speaker
Well... What's, hold on, I think we have code names for some of these. Unofficial code names. Do we want to cover that?
00:23:47
Speaker
That's fine. Or just refer to it. i don't think I used the one for the one that I talked about most recently. You did, you used the right one. yeah yeah You guys used that one? Okay, for yeah perfect. Okay.
00:23:58
Speaker
Okay, so for lie and won't, That's what we're calling it. um there's a There's a site here that's talking about navigating probate, you know, and they can help you.
00:24:11
Speaker
um I'm looking through and I'm trying to figure out, okay, what is what is this process that they're talking about? Because, oh it's a 404 not found. Okay, let me go back.
00:24:22
Speaker
Sorry. I clicked on it. 404 not found. Okay. But what it's talking about is they can help you navigate through the probate process. They can guide you how to do it.
00:24:34
Speaker
But something special about Texas. Hey, Lori, most probate proceedings in Texas. Can you do it without a licensed attorney petitioning the court? Very, very rarely.
00:24:47
Speaker
Very rarely. Yeah, this, I feel like there's a lot of times whenever people don't understand how predatory or just how misleading so much of this can be. Because yeah, sure, you can maybe pay them some money to get started, but then you're going to find out very quickly that no, your state requires different things.
00:25:09
Speaker
um They're talking about how probate is a personal thing. It's like, well, they provide you with a dedicated case manager to guide you at every step of the process. Well, at Birch Law, we provide you with an attorney and a case manager because the attorney is the one who, who tells you what to do.
00:25:26
Speaker
Um, it's just very, the way that they have everything already, everything you need to settle in the state with confidence. Uh huh. Like what parts of it though?
00:25:38
Speaker
Like, what do you mean though? What do you mean by settling in a state? Cause that can mean a whole lot of different things, depending on assets, depending on where the person lives, depending on and so much where they, did they have a kind of will? Did they have nothing? Were they married? Like there's so many things here that it's no, this is making it seem a lot more straightforward than it is.
00:26:05
Speaker
and it's like, it can get really misleading and that's really scary.
00:26:11
Speaker
This scary. Speaking of scary, Sam or Sarah, what'd you find? I am in unshockingly, I'm on the same site and like last time in the terms of service, just cause it's so fascinating.
00:26:25
Speaker
um As, as the last one immediately says that they're not an attorney. It's not an, there's no attorney client privilege. um It's not an attorney work product, which is an interesting way to put it.
00:26:39
Speaker
um Once again, they like the other one, they say um that they, you know, try to make the documents current up to date, but they're not legal advice and they're not guaranteed to be correct, to complete or up to date.
00:26:53
Speaker
yeah but easy Wow. Wow. They also say, what if we put that kind of disclaimer? Right. um They also say that they don't. No, no, stop, stop, Sam. I can't handle it. I can't handle it. Read read that last part again.
00:27:09
Speaker
right, I have to score back up to it.
00:27:12
Speaker
um slowly okay we strive to keep the documents and other materials available through the services so like their website including ah any descriptions information and other self-help resources current and up to date however they are not legal advice and not guaranteed to be correct complete or up to date and then they say that the law changes rapidly and is different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and may be subject to interest interpretation by different courts
00:27:43
Speaker
Wow. Okay, great. but What where are you going to at next? ah They also say in the in the same in the same long paragraph um that they don't review any document materials or any information that you input for accuracy or legal sufficiency, nor do you draw legal conclusions, provide legal advice, or apply the law to the facts of your particular situation.
00:28:09
Speaker
What? So they don't even look at it? No. Who would look at it? A robot? They say in the terms of service that it's literally a self-help form and it's a fill in the blank.
00:28:22
Speaker
Oh. Right form. Yeah. Wait, wait, wait. i have I have one really good thing um on mine. um It's talking about how secure your information is.
00:28:34
Speaker
And it says they use bank level security to protect and encrypt your personal information. Hey, Lori, is that the same as um client attorney privilege and confidentiality that attorneys are bound by? No, if you're looking...
00:28:47
Speaker
If you're looking at the same one, I've seen where it says, hey, look, we encrypt it like other websites, but that's not the same as attorney-client privilege. Like, you don't create attorney-client privilege with any of these, and they tell you that, again, in plain sight, it's all here on their own websites that are supposed to be marketing them.
00:29:05
Speaker
And really what they should do is be scaring you to death. but they say this is not attorney-client privilege. They have no obligations or ethical obligations to keep your information safe, secure, or confidential.
00:29:21
Speaker
And they tell you that. do Do they tell you how long the process takes though?
00:29:28
Speaker
Because mine says it takes most people about 20 minutes to complete their trust-based estate plan and 15 minutes to complete complete their will-based estate plan.
00:29:40
Speaker
and then according to Sam's example, three days to sign but but yeah Well, but Lori, how do you feel about this next section? Okay, the length of time it takes to complete probate varies greatly depending on the state in which you reside, the size of your estate.
00:29:56
Speaker
Rest assured that our probate experts will help you move through the process as quickly as possible.
00:30:04
Speaker
Wow. Hey guys, in Texas, you're looking at like, if everything is running smoothly in a big metropolitan area like DFW, like six to nine months is speedy.
00:30:20
Speaker
I can't emphasize like, yeah that is very quick months. And that was because of COVID, right? Like COVID slowed it down quite a bit. Well, it's that, but also just, we've had an increase in population and we haven't had any more courts added to handle the volume of um the fact that people continue to pass away in the area.
00:30:44
Speaker
That's just going to be an inevitability, I think. Yes. There's not only more people living in the DFW area. There's more people dying in the DFW area.
00:30:58
Speaker
Thanks, Sarah. and Man. Are you doing like a horse and a horselike impersonation over there? Yeah. Wait, say horse. Horse?
00:31:09
Speaker
you
00:31:12
Speaker
and stop okay ah This website also does what the other one did where if you post like any comments, ideas, questions, feedback that um you grant them non-exclusive royalty free and fully sublicensable write to access, view, use, reproduce, modify, a adapt, publish, translate, create create works from, distribute, coffee copy and display.
00:31:39
Speaker
them that was a lot of things that they can so go ahead Sarah so by modify they can just change what you said yeah for fun for fun yeah it would be fun
00:31:58
Speaker
Didn't she say, which one did you say they, like in the last like day they had so many one-star reviews? That's Legal Doom. Well, they have like, they have 15,000 total. And so it's like consistent, like, like overall every couple minutes they get a review.
00:32:14
Speaker
but I, I just filtered it to the one and twos because I was just curious what they would say. And it's, yeah, like it's crazy how many they get. Yeah, well, I mean, with a big company like that, I'm curious as to what the nature of the criticism is, because I'd be willing to bet it's not even like the worst things that's really about them.
00:32:34
Speaker
But what I've always been fascinated about when when we're talking about reviews is that everything's about how easy or cheap it was to do.
00:32:45
Speaker
None of them talk about, did it work? Because they don't know. They don't have any idea. Yeah, it's really easy to fill out a fill in the blank form or as Cynthia was reading, you know, yeah, it can take you 15-20 minutes to fill out something that you have no business understanding.
00:33:07
Speaker
That's not hard to do at all. um I saw another review for one of them. This one stuck out at me because it gets to the signing part. It says, I really liked that I was able to get a notary with two witnesses at an extra cost, but worth it to come to my apartment.
00:33:24
Speaker
Oh, that's that's nothing unique to these to to this. Like, basically, you're saying I really love that I had to pay extra to get it signed correctly to be valid.
00:33:39
Speaker
I mean, ah we can do that for you. Marsha, it's like built in, but we can add a fee. Like if you if you want to. Well, we have done that.
00:33:52
Speaker
I mean, yeah.
00:33:57
Speaker
Yeah, a lot of the um so one and two stars are like um about customer service. They're on too long. They get hung up on. they a lot of them, they call them the wrong names.
00:34:09
Speaker
Oh. Which is why. No, hold on. Hold on, Sam. it's But all of them have like such great encryption. It's so secure, though. It's crazy. It's so encrypted. They don't even know the names of their clients or customers. They don't who they're talking to. A lot of the reps don't know. what they're saying oh um or they like want to get something but like they're trying to solve something and then the agents are just trying to sell them on something a lot of business people aren't happy that are like trying to create like an LLC that's like months to do um they just don't answer them don't like the website lot of well so yeah
00:34:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, so we focus a lot, well, exclusively on the estate planning and probate part, but a lot of these also will help you set up business entities. But then they don't tell you about um like operating agreements or keeping minutes or records or setting up a lot of things that you need.
00:35:11
Speaker
And the whole the whole point of setting, well, i shouldn't say the whole point, but Essentially, one of the biggest benefits of you being a business owner and setting up an entity such as an LLC is for asset protection. So if you get sued in the course of your business,
00:35:27
Speaker
Your business being an LLC will make just the assets of the LLC subject to that lawsuit rather than all your personal assets, your home, bank accounts, what have you, um or other property that you own. So you need to have that protection, just...
00:35:45
Speaker
just getting an LLC and filing with the secretary of state does not successfully give you that veil of protection. In fact, what it's called, that's easy if someone doesn't want to sue you, is called piercing the corporate veil.
00:36:03
Speaker
And that's not hard to do at all when you don't have all the filings and, and, um ah taxes and everything and minutes and operating agreements and all of that. It takes all these other pieces to make sure that you're doing that. there's There's other tax ramifications for setting things up that way. But ah again, i want to get to, because you're kind of alluding to this, talking about customer service, a couple of them talk about how they have lawyers available for extra fees.
00:36:36
Speaker
And I enjoyed one particular part where it said our attorneys have 15 years legal experience. And here's why I don't think that sounds as good as they think it does is because typically when you're talking about years of experience, it's cumulative among all the attorneys.
00:36:57
Speaker
Right.
Misleading Claims About Attorney Availability
00:36:58
Speaker
So they probably have like 100 attorneys that have 15 years experience between them.
00:37:07
Speaker
And I can vouch for this. i mean, of course, they're going to make it sound. And they have, I mean, they have some of the, I don't know if this is stock photos or if these are actual licensed attorneys, we should kind of look it up.
00:37:18
Speaker
I don't know who they are, but let me speak on behalf of my people for a moment. Um, What? Oh, no, just on behalf of your people.
00:37:30
Speaker
Oh, on behalf of my people, attorneys. I hit a button. and I didn't know if the audio went out or not. ah But on behalf of my people, you in order to be able to ethically give legal advice to someone, they have to be your client.
00:37:45
Speaker
And that's something that I know we have found in some of the terms of services in in these places, in in some of these sites, is that it's saying like that still we're not we're not obligated to give you advice. We're not giving you advice, all of that.
00:37:59
Speaker
That still holds if you're talking to one of their hotline attorneys. So it's all general information. And we we've brought this up before.
00:38:12
Speaker
We have met an attorney who worked for us, who previously had been one of these hotline attorneys for an online site and admitted that she had no idea really um what she was saying and what she was answering. Like she would basic basically all it was is looking up the code or the statute and then reading it to them.
00:38:36
Speaker
So they make it sound real good that you can access this legal help and attorneys. And I mean, they're so smiley in their photos.
00:38:49
Speaker
And I we need to look at the ones that they show for Texas and actually look up their bar numbers and see if they're real or not. um Or see how long they've been licensed.
00:39:02
Speaker
Right. Which again, am a big proponent of length of experience is not a barometer necessarily of how well they do things. yeah But I'm just really more like, I don't know what kind of experience. I'll tell you this. I don't think the attorneys that are in legal departments of banks have any idea what they're doing.
00:39:24
Speaker
um We get pushback on things that are so run of the mill in a state planning world. and they I don't really know what it takes to be um in the legal department of a financial institution, but I can tell you this, it's not experience in a estate planning or knowledge of um how the Texas estate code works.
00:39:48
Speaker
Sarah, you've been quiet. Have you, as we kind of wind things up here,
00:39:55
Speaker
Have you, did you notice anything? Do you feel like we covered it? Or is there just anything that's really just stuck in your, stuck in your craw or whatever that is for sure? Yeah.
00:40:06
Speaker
So I was, Sam stole my, my, my spotlight. I was in the depths of the terms and conditions. But one thing I have noticed that really irritates me is that a lot of these sites partner with like They partner with big banks and companies. And it's kind of just, a goodcycl it's very infuriating that these big banks are just like, yeah, we'll partner with you.
00:40:35
Speaker
Get a little extra money. And it's just, what what was the word Cynthia used earlier? It's very, um, it's pred predatory, predatory. Yeah. Icky.
00:40:47
Speaker
Yeah, it's icky. don't like it. so I found a review that also talks about how like their initial process feels predatory. Oh, really? Wow, Sam.
00:40:57
Speaker
Yeah, they said um the... Oh, wait, are you done, Sarah? Yeah. Okay. ah The initial initial customer journey path felt predatory as well. The user is constantly prompted to pay for numerous additional services, which are exorbitantly priced.
00:41:12
Speaker
The user is made to think they are mandatory and misled to believe that they cannot cannot do it themselves, i.e. BOE filing, et cetera. I was told I need numerous business licenses. Upon doing my own research, I needed zero. Very misleading.
00:41:25
Speaker
Why not be transparent and educate your users? Well... Because they know they can get more money. i mean, free Shavocado, I'm looking at their... Like, this is even terms of service. This is the bottom. Also, next time, Sarah, I'm naming these, not you.
00:41:42
Speaker
um On here, it does... Yeah, it was me. It does reiterate um that this is online self-help solutions. None of this is um It's not a law firm and its services is not a subti a substitute for attorney advice. The information here is provided for educational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be considered actual advice.
00:42:13
Speaker
It's not actual advice.
00:42:20
Speaker
think it was legal doom where like in the this the number one or like the very first term in their terms of service was you are representing yourself.
00:42:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:36
Speaker
Did we find anything good? Because I didn't look at any of these kind of smaller ones that are out there.
00:42:43
Speaker
One thing I found interesting about the Frisch Avocado is on here it says get what that's what sam apparently named it i jokingly said it and she immediately wrote it you know that sam is gonna just do something to make sure it's just fine i'll send you the vine once we're done i don't care okay but hold on the the crux of it this is it says it takes less than 20 minutes to write or update your legal will for free it says update your legal will
00:43:18
Speaker
So one of the big things about this is... Whenever people come to us and they're like, oh, I just want to update what I have. Well, that's not necessarily a very like, oh, okay, we'll just take what you have, copy it and add something to it. That's not how that works.
00:43:37
Speaker
There's a lot of times like there's been laws updated in years, like over years, over years, like things get updated and and you have to comply with the laws of the year in which you are signing something.
00:43:50
Speaker
A lot of this is like if you're just taking what you have and you're just like slapping some pages onto it that is not going to work. and Yeah, that seems to frustrate sometimes when we have returning clients to let them know that it's not just a matter of taking out an executor name and substituting another executor name.
00:44:10
Speaker
There's been changes and amendments and updates to the laws and to the requirements. And to just do that, but sign a document that may have that may have been valid as it was signed in 2010.
00:44:22
Speaker
But if the law has changed since 2010, it's still valid because it was valid at the time it was signed. Yeah. So that's that is how the law works. Even if something's changed or there's language that's been tweaked, if it was valid, if that was the format and the requirements at the time that you signed it, it will it will continue to be valid. However, if you sign it at a later date when it that language has been changed or updated or amended, and and it's not valid.
00:44:54
Speaker
It's invalidated by doing that, if that makes sense. In addition to that, we have people that come in and they have the original wills that they have taken a writing implement, crossed out things on the actual piece of paper.
00:45:09
Speaker
um In Texas, you are essentially invalidating that document. Well, the way it the way it works, it's different. It depends on documents, on the document. Because in a will, yeah if you cross something out, um it doesn't invalidate the document.
00:45:24
Speaker
You just, you are to disregard. We're just actually messaging about this in Birch's Law. ah If you cross something out or add language, like handwritten language to a validly signed will, all of that's to be ignored.
00:45:40
Speaker
So doesn't invalidate the will. You just ignore that. the the problems that start to become up other than the obvious, like they obviously wanted to change this but didn't do it validly, so we have to stick to what it originally says.
00:45:54
Speaker
What if they like took a Sharpie and like really redacted something? If we have no way of knowing what that said, you're you you have to get like a declaratory judgment or understand that. But let me ask you this.
00:46:06
Speaker
What if, because we've had to do this, you have a perfectly valid executed will, it's typewritten, but it's signed, witnessed, notarized, all the good stuff. But then you decide you want to change your executor.
00:46:19
Speaker
So you, most people would call it a pen. If you're Cynthia, you call it a writing implement, apparently. But you take it out and in the march this is in the margin, if you write, sign i want my executor to be sarah and you sign it What then? Because I just said, if there's any handwriting on it, you are to disregard the handwriting. But now we have a situation where you hand wrote something and signed it.
00:46:51
Speaker
Would that be a holographic codicil? Could be. by Hold on. Sam, do you all know what a codicil is? yes No.
00:47:04
Speaker
how about we start there? What do you think it is?
00:47:11
Speaker
Now, you can't tell from the title, unless you're talking about Lauren, how she sells wells. Because she's a codicil. Oh, my God. A cod who sells. Yeah. By an onboarding director. It's... No.
00:47:25
Speaker
Don't know. Just for you, Sarah. Thank you. Oh, and Sam liked it too. And they it like dawned on them at the same time. First of all, codicils, don't do them. Don't do them. Okay? Don't do them. This old-fashioned, outdated.
00:47:37
Speaker
You don't need to do it this way. um In the age of word processing, there is no reason to just do a separate document that says, I hereby am in my will this way. and but everything else in the original will. So basically you now create this puzzle piece where you've got the original will and then a codicil is like an amendment and then you can do a second codicil, all of that.
00:47:56
Speaker
Just do a whole new will that incorporates your change and incorporates what you wanted to keep because there shouldn't be a single firm attorney or anybody that would charge extra to do that. In fact, I would charge extra if somebody insisted on a codicil because that takes a lot more effort to generate that language.
00:48:18
Speaker
And then also you have to keep up with it. You have to always keep everything together. Yeah. So basically and conclusion, you really should tread lightly on using any sort of product or service where they have on their website, all these reasons to not use them.
00:48:48
Speaker
think its That's insane. Okay. There's a reason that they've put all this information there and it means that it's bad. Like, just don't. Okay.
00:48:59
Speaker
That's your takeaway.
00:49:02
Speaker
Um, So with that, we for those of you who watching this, you know i typically am at home in my little, we don't really talk about it, but it's this like little work pod that I have at home.
00:49:16
Speaker
I do go into the office, just not typically on the days that we record this. And so um this week, we've had a little incident at our office where the power is out.
00:49:28
Speaker
And so we're all working from home. um Since we're all working from home, we thought it might be fun to quickly, quickly ah go through some of the fun stuff that you see behind us or that you don't see behind us, but that we're going to explain.
00:49:43
Speaker
um For those of you who are watching this, yes, Sam barely has anything, but what she does have is really important. So what, or do you want me to start or do you want me to end?
00:49:57
Speaker
I think I should start. start you start. Yeah, this was kind of sprung on us. i Yeah, I wasn't rolling until this morning, so i I would have done something last night if I knew.
00:50:11
Speaker
so Well, all right, Cynthia, this was not sprung on you because we talked about it yesterday. Yeah, but I thought you were joking. And I didn't really think that you would like, on this audio, audio situation that we would actually sit here. and It's like, okay, let's go through things in our background. Because I'm like, dang, so i had to rearrange my whole office today during my lunch break.
00:50:32
Speaker
It's not going to be as thorough as it would be if we were actually giving somebody a a visual tour, but we can highlight some of the things that we've got. Just highlight it because it could take me an hour to go through all the stuff that's behind me and I'm not going to do that.
00:50:46
Speaker
So Sam, what you got? um I feel like the most important one. is my cat. His name's Barry. um If you look on the other side, on, I have to move her.
00:51:00
Speaker
don't know if you can see blue down the bottom. And your sock. and Listen, they grabbed my sock, man. I've given Are you just wearing one sock right now?
00:51:13
Speaker
I'm wearing none. um I don't know what she's doing. all that um I got moved because Barry was playing and he shoved himself into it. i have my TARDIS in the background ah for my Doctor Who fans. It's a DVD holder. um It's not usually here. i feel like I should point that out, but I needed something to talk about. yeah oh yeah There is also, if you can see her, a Moana Squishmallow on my bed.
00:51:43
Speaker
and Nice and fury lights at the top. of just They're not on. um okay I don't have a lot. I'm so sorry. okay Okay. yeah Who wants to go next? Sarah. It's hard to top that.
00:51:55
Speaker
Okay. Nothing will top that, frankly. Especially the socks situation. I didn't know it was down there until I panned down. okay
00:52:07
Speaker
So behind me is just a bunch of tour posters. Those are orange juice faces. um The most important is, well, the most important is, where's my dog?
00:52:19
Speaker
She's right there. ah um And then I also have a framed picture of her. it is a dog house.
00:52:30
Speaker
And the picture is of her doing her business. But it's a top dog on the top. That's the most I've ever seen. And it sits on that shelf right there under. I'm sorry. It's a picture of her doing her business. I feel like I would like to represent Kona in filing some sort of grievance against you. Why would you do that? will take Kona's case. Yeah.
00:53:04
Speaker
yeah Wow, Sarah, damn. All right, Cynthia, what do you want to highlight? Okay, very quickly. um There's a base.
00:53:17
Speaker
That's fine. I have ah full box set collection of the 1960s Batman series. Um, it is pristine in a box. Um, there's also, it comes a little Hot Wheels replica of the, of the car. I'm not getting it out.
00:53:34
Speaker
Um, on this side, we have a tour poster from whenever we went to go see Taylor in Arlington. um The Blue Pig is actually a painting done by my stepdad's mom.
00:53:49
Speaker
I saw it in her house one time and I'm like, I want it And she gave it to me for Christmas. She has also done a cow and
00:54:01
Speaker
I don't know how to get the cow because I would like that also. But hold on two seconds. My favorite thing.
00:54:13
Speaker
What is happening? I don't know. It's it's lagging. she might know, it's lagging. It's so... Is um this little guy? Hold on. It's lagging. Oh, no.
00:54:25
Speaker
But it's our it's my little goose. ah for the cause oh It's my goose. It holds my keys. Magnetic. this is This is my favorite little guy in the house.
00:54:36
Speaker
Also, my dog's in here, but he's asleep. Got it. got it So great. right I'm not, and there's way, there's so much behind me, but you know Some people don't always notice like where where I'm sitting. Somebody asked me if I was in jail, um which a lot to unpack there that we're just going to leave in the suitcase.
00:55:02
Speaker
um And then our uniform booth or whatever. But you know during COVID, when we were working from home, I'm in this ah air upstairs loft area. And it was I don't have a designated office at home because we have 5 million children. So they take up all the bedrooms.
00:55:19
Speaker
And what was in their bedrooms are upstairs as well. And so it was always this, my mom's got a meeting, stay downstairs, don't make noise, like all of this, or they'd like duck down and go behind me and all of this stuff.
00:55:32
Speaker
So I saw these like little, pods that some of them are are completely enclosed but mine has like two glass sides i face a window and then there's a wall that i face and that and i don't know if any of you have watched the series called you on netflix yeah yeah but you know there so when i first had this made and i'm standing there looking at this glass case yeah Wow.
00:56:01
Speaker
i I hope I get over that. And I did. Like, I don't even think about it unless I'm describing it again. But there's barely enough room for like a desk, me. And then I've got like this this fun little geometric thing here.
00:56:17
Speaker
and again, there's a lot here, but let me just highlight like some of the best parts. So I have a
00:56:25
Speaker
ah Spice Girls lunchbox. Nice. Right. um With all five Spice Girls. This is before Jerry quit, but she came back because she knew what was good for her.
00:56:37
Speaker
This is ah dolphin that my daughter painted. You're going to start seeing a theme here. This this is special because this is ah dolphin that our attorney Shruti made for me for the holidays.
00:56:56
Speaker
Very cool. um Oh, and then if you look up, you'll see an Elvis crocheted doll that somebody else made. And then I've got a Miami Dolphin helmet, but wait, watch this. It lights up.
00:57:09
Speaker
I love that. And that's just the top shelf. So I'll just highlight a few other things. So I have my dog Teddy's ashes right there um as well as his paw print.
00:57:23
Speaker
but and it even has some of his black wiry hair in it so that's not creepy at all um you said it but then you guys look at this this is ah lego friends central park have you guys ever wondered what's behind me i've seen it are you just like i mean you've shown it i think but it's been a while since i've seen it yeah So that's some pretty good stuff. i do i should show you this. I've got um an Elvis made out of marbles.
00:57:56
Speaker
Oh, I haven't seen that. and Yeah. And then I've got lots of stuff from Indonesia, stuff that my kid has done. But then, of course, I've got Forky.
00:58:09
Speaker
Yeah. And next to Buzz Lightyear, ah best Toy Story character, I have a one of my dads stepdad's mobile trains.
00:58:23
Speaker
I have one at the office and one here. All his kids were given those when he passed away. And really, gosh, I have a lot of really cool stuff here that we could have done a whole episode with it. But there's there's more, but we'll we leave it at that.
00:58:38
Speaker
But Lori, do you have your kindergarten or first grade perfect attendance award? Because I do right there. That's what that is. well there there is a reason I don't have that up. And that is because I did not achieve that.
00:58:54
Speaker
um But that's like, is it really? Yeah, it is Wow. Perfect attendance. It's fine. My mom didn't believe in me. you went far Yeah, I was just gonna say that tells me you went to school sick.
00:59:08
Speaker
ah so Listen, my parents had to work. They didn't have anybody to leave me with. It's fine. Okay, I got perfect attendance.
00:59:20
Speaker
Anyway, a lot of the stuff that I have in here, my daughter tries to steal and takes to her room. And I don't know why she thinks that's so funny.
00:59:31
Speaker
ah But she was just doing that the other day, like taking stuff, but I think I've reclaimed it. But every once in a while, I'll find something. But the biggest thing that she took from my pod um that is no longer visible is she stole money.
00:59:47
Speaker
i have a little wallet that I usually have keep right there in front of me, but it is now hidden somewhere and it has cash in it. And she probably told me one day that she stole money from my pod and I thought she was kidding, but she told me right where she put it in her, uh, frozen Elsa toy chest, little treasure toy chest.
01:00:08
Speaker
And sure enough, the next day when I saw it sitting out, i'm like, you know, let me go look. And burying underneath toys was indeed my cash.
01:00:20
Speaker
And I think my favorite part of the story, other than I didn't realize she knew where I kept the money, nor that she would go into the pod without me in it, is she was so proud of herself that she stole money and I had no idea that she had to tell me.
01:00:36
Speaker
Because it's like it's like that ah you know that Game of Thrones scene that is memed a lot where it's like, i you know tell my mom that it was me. I want her to know it was me.
01:00:50
Speaker
But she told you herself. Yeah. So I know that's not much of a correlation to ah how horrible these DIY sites are, but being being we rarely have it where we're all working from home and It's like, this is this is who we are at home.
01:01:07
Speaker
And I think it's fun to share in that. I have a lot of craft supplies. You do. Okay, we're done with yours. All right. Listen, I just, I had to rearrange I'm like, oh, there's a lot of stuff behind me.
01:01:22
Speaker
Yeah, no, I i mean, I've got lots of stuff that I could just keep going and going, but we'll leave it at that. um You know, we don't want to show up Sam that, we have more personality than she does.
01:01:35
Speaker
salad I could show off my um my ink collections. Oh my gosh. Is that for your writing utensils? My writing implements? Is that the one you got at Kina Kania? This one, um I think I got Ferris Wheel from Kina Kania.
01:01:50
Speaker
Yeah. This one's definitely peachy. That's the color of the ink. Listen, so I have a lot of writing implements that... are refillable with ink.
01:02:03
Speaker
So that way you don't just like throw it away. Like, you know, you, you just keep them for a while and I cycle through which ones I'm using at a time. Some never leave my desk, some travel with me, but yeah. All right. um Well, Cynthia, that's very interesting to some people.
01:02:22
Speaker
I'm sure. i hope it is And, and so, you know, that's it. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for listening. And just to cover all our bases about what you just heard, I'm sorry and you're welcome.
01:02:37
Speaker
Make sure you subscribe so you never miss an episode and tell your friends about us. We do webinars and live events. The best way to stay up to date is to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube.
01:02:51
Speaker
Links are in the show notes. If there's a topic you'd like us to cover, maybe you have a question you'd like us to answer, or maybe you just want to say hi, hit the link in the show notes or go to birch-law.com forward slash podcast and fill out the contact form.
01:03:14
Speaker
much better. Yeah, I thought that had a lot of energy.