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A guest's perspective!
40 Plays4 years ago
The first guest on the podcast is Sarah Dlouhy (creativeschooldaze) who brings her perspective as she discusses her career, which encompasses many of our previous topics. She joins administrator Robert Hinchliffe and teacher Abigail Peterson and reflects on working with Abbie in a grade level, working with Robert as an administrator, and her career path going from someone who debated leaving the profession to presenting at one of the biggest conferences in the nation. The three of them examine different educational topics from various points of view. Follow along as she takes the challenge of looking at a topics from another side and see if your opinion may change. In the end, no matter what side you are on, it’s all about perspective. What’s yours?
In this episode:
- Sarah Dlouhy walks through her career and how she has grown personally.
- A discussion between teachers who struggled to work together, but learned to respect each other's approaches to the job.
- What did a difficult grade level teach an administrator?
- An outside perspective on the previous topics from someone who has a deep knowledge and experience with change, social media, programs with fidelity, and the hybrid model.
- Why can't they all be like you are?
- Why isn't success for ONE teacher, success for ALL teachers in a school?
- Rapid fire with Sarah Dlouhy.
Connect with Abbie and Robert
Instagram: www.instagram.com/ItsAllAboutPerspective2021
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Its-All-About-Perspective-102961565105781
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ItsAllAboutPer2
Abbie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kindergarten_chaos/’
Robert on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pryncypalwithay/
Robert on Twitter: https://twitter.com/RobertHCCS
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Transcript
Introduction to Educational Perspectives
00:00:09
Speaker
Welcome! You are listening to It's All About Perspective with your hosts, Abigail Peterson from Kindergarten Chaos and Principal Robert Hinchliffe. Join us as we discuss education from various points of view. Take the challenge of listening to see if your opinion changes. But no matter where you stand on the issues, remember, it's all about perspective.
Featuring Sarah DeLouis from Creative School Days
00:00:32
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode number six of It's All About Perspective. I'm Abigail Peterson, and I'm one of your hosts. We have a very special guest today, but first, my co-host.
00:00:45
Speaker
Hi, I'm Robert Hinchliffe. And Abby, you're right, we do have a very special guest, and she's someone that we knew we wanted to have on the podcast and really a person that I feel like can definitely speak to many, many of the topics that we have talked about. Her name is Sarah DeLouis, also known as Creative School Days.
00:01:02
Speaker
on Instagram. So follow her if you like that. She has many great ideas, and she's very passionate about education. And she has helped many, many people do better things for kids. So welcome, Sarah. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you for having me. Yay. I'm a big fan. Listen to all the episodes so far. We appreciate your experience.
00:01:28
Speaker
We appreciate you listening to us and supporting us. Sarah is also the designer of our logo. She is amazing with graphics. She has done the graphics in our school. And that's why it looks so great. We call it Seraphi. She has Seraphied our school because she's really good
The Gift of 'Scaredy Squirrel' and Personal Growth
00:01:44
Speaker
at what she does. But I've wanted to ask her this question for a long time. And I knew this is the question I was going to ask her when she came on. So when you originally transferred to our old school,
00:01:56
Speaker
Not long after you came there, you sent me a gift through school mail. What was the gift? Why did you do it? And how can people learn from that? Okay, so when you hired me when I was hired, it wasn't when I was officially at Smith. I was still at my old school. But I sent you the book, Scaredy Squirrel.
00:02:25
Speaker
Mostly because I just feel like that is a book that always resonated with me because I am a little bit of that scaredy squirrel. I like to be comfortable and I like my little comfort zone. And so for me, leaving schools was a big leap of faith, like scaredy squirrel has to do in the book. And it was just kind of like a little thank you, read this with your kids.
00:02:53
Speaker
kind of gesture. And so taking that and you being a scaredy squirrel, one of our topics in the past was is it time for relocation or retirement or a change of venue. So I thought it would be important for people to hear kind of your journey in changing schools and what that has done for you.
Transformations: Changing Schools and Roles
00:03:14
Speaker
I mean, I feel like changing schools in this profession is honestly like completely relocating your whole life. It's like,
00:03:21
Speaker
packing up your home and moving to a different city with nobody that you know, because the classroom really is like an entire home. And the people that you work with really are like your family. And so even though I was just at that school for two years, it felt like a really big change for me. And ultimately I knew I needed the change because I was so unhappy there.
00:03:47
Speaker
But part of me, because that's all I knew, part of me thought, this is just what education is. Like, this is just what teaching is. And part of me just wanted to just suck it up and be there. Part of me wanted to leave the professional together. But my good friend interviewed over at Smith and she told me how amazing you guys were. And so then I was like, okay, I'll try. And it ended up being one of the best things that ever happened.
00:04:15
Speaker
So yeah, I don't know. I feel like it could, I feel like changing your site and changing your location can be a good thing. And I encourage everyone to do it a few times in their career.
Collaboration and Personality Dynamics in Teaching
00:04:32
Speaker
Right. And so to at least think about it. And I think it's important because one thing you've always kind of said was, you know, you had thought about quitting the profession. Oh, yeah. And and that really resonates with me because now getting the opportunity to watch your journey, which hopefully we'll walk through in the next half an hour or so of
00:04:51
Speaker
starting out as this person who is about to quit and then seeing where you are at now is really quite a transformation over the years. And I've just been lucky enough to watch it. And one thing I want to tell you both is, you know, I was blessed because you're both at the same school. And when you when you look at each of your career paths and what you have done, you've taken different paths,
00:05:10
Speaker
But I was blessed because I had two of the most, I don't know if famous is the right word, but you guys are very high up in the educational world. I mean, Sarah, you're, in terms of education, you have a lot of followers and Sarah, you're very tight in to get your teach on. Abby, you're very tight in to teach your heart out. Um, and you know, I was blessed to have both of you at the same school, but, but you didn't start out as the closest of colleagues. And so it's not because of anything either you did, you just kind of have different ways about you.
00:05:39
Speaker
Maybe if you guys could talk about just being colleagues with someone and you were both in kindergarten when you got to Smith and how your journey has kind of taken you from where you were kind of filling each other out when you got there to now you're both, you're both very established. Sarah, I'll let you go since you're our guest. Well, I think, I mean, now how many years later is it? Like my perspective.
00:06:06
Speaker
Oh gosh, I used the word. I think my perspective really has kind of shifted and changed, I think, as I've grown as a person, as a colleague, as an educator. But first, going to Smith, I mean, walking into that situation was not necessarily ideal for any teacher.
00:06:32
Speaker
where the grade level was already completely split, where there kind of was already a great deal of tension. And then I came in kind of to balance the grade level. And I mean, it is true. And I came in to kind of balance the grade level and it was tough. It was really tough because I felt like I was there to support one person
00:07:02
Speaker
And then I couldn't, like, it was just a weird, it was a weird dynamic, which I think led to a weird relationship. I agree. And I agree. It was, it had, it had kind of, it started off on a bad foot. It started off on a bad foot before you even stepped foot on campus. And so we all kind of jokingly say, I'm an Enneagram eight. So I am very strong. My personality is really strong. I don't
00:07:30
Speaker
I, I watch my words, but I can't really say I, I still will speak up. And sometimes that's hard when you're a direct person. And so for somebody like you, Sarah, who came in and knowing that you were already nervous about coming to a new school and leaving. And at that time, if I remember correctly, Declan, your son was only, he was still a baby pretty much.
00:07:57
Speaker
And your daughter was coming into kindergarten. So you had a lot of life changes. It wasn't just school changes. It was life changes. And so coming into our school.
00:08:10
Speaker
I just remember it was it kind of felt like it was like two against two. And that was kind of how I felt the dynamics were. And I, I will continually try as I do this now I did this back then I will try to like, make
00:08:29
Speaker
you know put forth the olive branch kind of i remember being out on the playground and there were two over here and then there was two over here and i felt like i kind of was in the middle because i'd have to go back and forth and say hey we're planning on doing this and then i'd have to go back and and i just hate i personally hated it because it was not it was there was no unity at all there was no unity and it felt
00:08:53
Speaker
anytime we had we would try to have a conversation it was never productive some people wouldn't talk and i am one of those people that i don't like silence you guys know that you guys have been in grade though or you've been in meetings with me i hate awkward silence and so when people just sit there and look at each other without
Managing Strong Personalities in Schools
00:09:11
Speaker
like owls in a tree that drives me crazy
00:09:15
Speaker
And then I feel like I need to speak. And sometimes I don't have the right words. And I might say something that's not appropriate, but maybe is not the best use of my time and my energy. It was a very challenging few years. Right, right. It was. And so, you know, from my perspective, of course, I have four great teachers in the grade level.
00:09:37
Speaker
And I think you all taught me that grade level taught me a lesson that you can put four great people in a grade level, they're not going to get along. They might not get along. And so how do you manage that? That was very difficult because it was two versus two. And I think it just set up like that because of honestly because of age differences in life experiences and things like that. It wasn't that any of
Therapy and Personal Development for Educators
00:10:00
Speaker
you are bad people. It just was the way it worked out with clicks and with where you're at in your lives.
00:10:06
Speaker
And I know there are many grade levels across Clark County in the country that are set up like that. So I'm curious if you two, because you did grow to respect each other as educators, can kind of speak to how, how people can learn from what you went through and maybe not have situations come up or be able to mend fences, if that's the right word, or, or respect each other in terms of being colleagues. I mean, I, I don't know.
00:10:35
Speaker
I literally don't know. I think that it's such a hard thing when you are supposed to be working so closely with people that are so different from you that you didn't choose to be around and you're supposed to be collaborating on lessons. I remember at that time in kindergarten, I felt like, Abby, your half,
00:11:05
Speaker
I don't know how else to put it without calling people out. But I felt like your half had different priorities than the half that I was on.
00:11:14
Speaker
And when, I mean, at that time, nobody was necessarily right or wrong. It was just where our priorities lied with our students in our classrooms. So when lessons are planned and we're planning long range stuff, it doesn't match. And you can't make that match and you can't make that mend. And no matter what lesson I bring up or activities that I share, it's not because
00:11:38
Speaker
Viewpoints are different and I mean it's it is it is what it is I wish at that time I would have been wiser and just been like, you know what? They're amazing the way that they are like it might not be my thing But that doesn't mean it's any less than what I'm doing because I've had to learn that like I'm not always the best and everybody's Everybody's way is just as valid and bright as mine but
00:12:08
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I feel like if I had had that viewpoint back then, things might have been a little bit different as far as our relationship went. But I don't know. It's hard. It's a really hard thing.
00:12:20
Speaker
Well, and I think one thing, Robert, you were, you were actually fairly new to being a principal. I think it was maybe your second year as an actual principal. And so I think just as Sarah and I learned, you know, some things through, through, through our experience, you did as well. Cause I remember you tried to.
00:12:39
Speaker
kind of make us sit down and have like, you know, get around the table and have powwow. And it didn't really work out. And I remember you saying later that, okay, trying to force people to talk out their problems is not always the best. And you ended up moving people to different grade levels, and it ended up kind of leveling out some. And so then Sarah moved to first grade, she was still in the same classroom. So she was, you know, two, two doors down for me. So, and
00:13:09
Speaker
Once she moved to first grade, it kind of. Brought a little bit of cut a lot of the tension. We had some new people that we brought in. So it kind of cut the tension. And then I just think over time, if there was ever opportunities.
00:13:24
Speaker
that we had, for me, one of the one of the better experiences with you Sarah was when we went to Lake Tahoe and we presented. And I think sometimes when you let down your guard a little bit, and you really you allow people to kind of see who the real Sarah is, I think that was helpful to me, because you're a very guarded person. And so I'm an Enneagram six. Like, we're like complete opposites in that way. So
00:13:54
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And it takes it takes a lot for me to like come out of my shell and feel comfortable. And I think a lot of the time people just think that I'm like, mean, and like, I don't know, but I'm just I'm really just, I'm very easily intimidated. I mean, to be honest,
00:14:12
Speaker
Yeah, which is which is interesting to me. So it's fascinating for me to sit and listen to this and going back as if we could, we definitely would change some things. But it kind of goes into what we talked about last week, where I as an admin cannot force two excellent teachers to follow a program or do the same things. So I don't know if Sarah would like to speak on that or not. But here we have two people who I have said are very, very involved in education.
00:14:42
Speaker
And to try to make them follow a program or do the same thing two classrooms away simply will not work in my opinion. I don't know if you want to speak on that. No, I mean, absolutely. Like that's 100% the truth. And I came from a school where I mean, just listening to the podcast last week, like I was at a school where I had to have my lesson plans.
00:15:04
Speaker
on my desk if admin walked in for a surprise observation and I was not here doing this lesson, then that resulted in a post-conference that wasn't so great. We were all expected to be on the same page. They wanted to go from my classroom to the kindergarten teacher's classroom next door and see that we were teaching the exact same thing.
00:15:32
Speaker
And I mean, yeah, like when you put great, I mean, big personalities are like me and Abby who have, we're both really great, but we do things differently and then kind of put us in one box and expect us to do the same thing. We're not going to be, we're not going to meet our full potential. Well, and another thing that I was thinking of as you were speaking was when there's four in a grade level and you bring
00:16:00
Speaker
two people in that have been boxed in and now you're giving them the freedom. It's almost like a kid in a candy store like, hey, I want to try it all. And so if you're somebody who's already been there and been doing, you're kind of like, wait, slow your roll a little bit, calm down. You know, I don't know. I was just thinking about how our colleagues
00:16:23
Speaker
You know came from schools you came from school and our other colleague came from a school where it was very Specific and it was very you know structured and you had to follow it to a T and dot every I and so when you when you all of a sudden you have the freedom and the liberty to Use what you want and supplement and try new things and you're encouraged to try new things I think sometimes that that can be uncomfortable for some people and
00:16:53
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So what advice would you give principles out there who have strong personalities with different viewpoints in the same grade level? Because some principles would just be like sit down, knock it off, follow the script, do what you need to do. That doesn't work for either of you. So what principles listening or who may listen the future? What would you two what advice would you give them?
00:17:20
Speaker
I would say just let teachers do that thing. Like just they got to just be able to like do their thing, whatever works for them in their classroom. And I think at minimum, if the grade level is not collaborating and they're not getting along, like I feel at that point,
00:17:38
Speaker
If it's working separately, then that should be fine enough for everybody. I don't think that we should try and force people. And Robert, I love you, but you don't like to see animosity within grade levels. And you try to work your magic and make everyone be friends. But the reality of it, some people are just not going to be friends.
00:18:01
Speaker
And I think I've learned that over the past few years, it's just especially with your grade level. I learned a lot with with you guys, those foods. Yeah, which is not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing at all. You know, and I, like I said, I think admin, you've got to be willing to learn from your people, you cannot quit fit a square peg into a round hole, you just can't. So be brave enough to admit that you were wrong, and make a change. And and it's a better change for the teachers also.
00:18:31
Speaker
Well, I think there's something called the serenity prayer that's like, help me to change the things I can change, accept the things I cannot change, between the two. And that to me is always the key is that part right there. Know the difference between the two, because there's some things that you are just not going to change. And so understand and accept.
00:18:55
Speaker
that you're not going to change it. And so like Sarah said, if it's not broke and your students are happy and you're seeing successful data, then it's okay to leave it alone. For instance, when you offered Sarah first grade, she was willing to move to first grade. Our other colleague was willing to move to a different grade level. We had one that moved away. So I think if somebody's open, but if Sarah would have said, no,
00:19:25
Speaker
would it have been fine for her to stay in kindergarten? Yes, but I have been. I mean, the year I was in the, I think it was just one year that I was in kindergarten. I mean, it was fine because I had somebody to lean on. And I had someone that could help support me. I have been like completely alone in a position. And it sucked.
00:19:47
Speaker
And I feel like if I was to go into any grade level now, I would not be picking the grade level. Like I would not want to say, I'm going to go to fourth grade. I would have to pick the team because like that for me is everything at this point. And so I feel like if your principal allowing people to kind of like find those personalities that they mesh with, because
00:20:13
Speaker
there is power in working with a team and having strong relationships with your teammates because like magic really can happen when you have a bunch of people that respect and support each other. And it makes like my individual job as a teacher a lot easier when I have other people kind of lifting me up. So I just feel like
00:20:34
Speaker
If you do have a grade level where there are some big personalities that aren't mixing, maybe just offer it like, hey, is there another grade level that you feel you would fit better in? And I feel like sometimes personality might trump
00:20:50
Speaker
content in this case, like content knowledge. I think looking at it now, I would definitely weigh out personalities much more than I would have in the past. I would always think, Oh, this person will get along with this person. But now having
00:21:08
Speaker
the knowledge and the wisdom, as we talked earlier, to know who gets along and who doesn't, I think that's more powerful. Because from the admin side, if you're, you can take the four strongest teachers you have and put them in a grade level. But if they are all different personalities, you're just setting them up for animosity and a difficult year. So unfortunately, yes, people will be professional. When they close the door, they will teach.
00:21:33
Speaker
But if you want to get the most out of people, put them with people that they respect and that push them to go to a higher level.
00:21:40
Speaker
Well, and that also makes you, going back to a previous episode, that also makes you want to stay. It makes you want to grow where you're at. If you're miserable and you're being forced to collaborate, or you're being forced to talk out problems, and like Sarah said, if you're the lone man and you're unhappy, of course, who wants to go the next school year?
00:22:08
Speaker
Who wants to continue to do that? I certainly wouldn't. Another thing, Sarah, that I've watched you over, especially over the last year and a half, and I know you've voiced this and put this out on your Instagram, so I feel liberty to say this. If it's not okay, you can catch me on the flip side. But you also have talked a lot about your mental health and about how you have went and started having therapy.
00:22:37
Speaker
And I think that has also helped you to learn to express your emotions and maybe navigate with people. I don't know. I just have watched the evolution of how that has really changed you. Absolutely. I am now the biggest proponent of therapy.
00:22:57
Speaker
I initially went just because I was struggling in every single aspect of my life, like every single relationship was on the rocks. I was unhappy at work. I felt like I just wanted to run away from my life, like every part of my life. And I just got to the point where I was like, I can't feel like this anymore. And so I sought out therapy and I mean, yeah, I feel like
00:23:27
Speaker
Talking about my feelings has never been something that I have done. I just, I think just talking in general is not something that I do. Like I'm more of the observer and I just kind of internalize everything. And so I think just having the practice of just talking
00:23:47
Speaker
and just sharing. I mean, and I'm, I'm essentially paying this person to listen to me. So I don't have to feel that guilt, like I'm wasting this person's time. And yeah, I think that's just really opened a whole new world up to me. Like I feel like now I'm kind of thriving.
00:24:06
Speaker
in a lot of areas that I definitely wasn't before. And I think also too, I've seen a couple of your Instagram stories where you have talked about where you place your time. So knowing your boundaries and knowing you are somebody who can overextend yourself because you get asked to do a lot. And sometimes I even told Robert, I'm like, when he was telling me all the different things that you were doing at the school, I was like, man, I'm like,
00:24:33
Speaker
When does she have time to do other things? Because you seem to have your hands in a lot of places. Yeah, I do. And I mean, again, this is something I talk about in therapy every week. I have such a hard time saying no to things because I genuinely want to do them. I feel like I really do find my worth in these projects and what I can contribute. I love giving.
00:25:01
Speaker
And I feel like if I can give in some little tiny way, then I'm happy to do that. Um, but then I do spread myself way too thin and then I like spiral and fall into a depression and I have to pull myself out and it's a whole big thing. But that kind of sparked when you guys were talking last week, when we were talking last week, like I feel like I was just hanging with you guys, um, about like the box, the can curriculum.
00:25:30
Speaker
And I, when I first met Robert, I was like, wait, I can teach whatever I want. I can do whatever I want. I don't have to follow this program. You know, like I was like a kid in the candy store. Like you said, Abby, like I was so excited to like do my craft and do my thing. But I also completely, like that is not sustainable.
00:25:56
Speaker
at all. And I don't think that any teacher should be expected to create lessons for every single standard because the burnout is real. And if I was to do that now, if I still had that mentality, like I would be working until six, seven o'clock every single night. And I wouldn't be present in any other part of my life. And so I feel like
00:26:20
Speaker
schools do need to have curriculum. But like you guys had said, like just as a resource, because sometimes I don't have the time to look and unwrap the standards and make amazing lessons that engage my kids in all the ways that I ideally want to. And sometimes there's got to be weeks where I'm just I need something to help me keep myself afloat. Because if there's one thing that I've learned and
00:26:47
Speaker
seven, eight years, I don't know. However long I've been doing this is that if you keep trying to make all the things and do all the things, you're going to want to leave this profession.
00:27:01
Speaker
So one of the things Abby and I talk about a lot is like ROI, return on investment of time. Yes. I remember telling you, I walk in your room. And you'd be like, do these anchor charts really need to be this cute? Do the fonts really need to be here? Is your return on investment really that, is it that great for you? And you would say, yes. But then the point was is it was a return on investment time for you.
00:27:27
Speaker
And we discussed this like, do the first graders really see your font, or things like that. And, and you talk about all these things like where you have to do them your way, which is great. But I think you've also learned what you talked about earlier. And I've told you this many times is they can't all be like you know,
00:27:46
Speaker
And that was hard for you because you have such high expectations as Abby does for her colleagues to teach and teach well. So one of the things that's been fun to watch really in both of you is to accept the fact that not everybody's like you and not everybody's going to do as good a job as you.
00:28:05
Speaker
There used to be many times when people would be like, why can't you just go in that room and talk to that person? Because you wanted them to be like you. And I think you've both learned that it just can't happen. Well, it can't happen. I mean, what was the thing? Being awesome ain't easy.
00:28:25
Speaker
Like, it's not Steve Gleason. Awesome and easy. But I, I don't know. I just feel like at this point in my life and my career, I empathize. And now I just have grace for those people. Because I mean, this profession is hard. And I think showing up every day is like enough
00:28:51
Speaker
round of applause, like good job. Like that's all we need because it is, it is hard. And I think just for some people, we just got to give them a little bit more grace, which I
The Evolution of Teaching Styles Through Experience
00:29:01
Speaker
have learned because I was, I was very, I was very judgmental of a lot of teachers and the way they ran their classroom. I appreciate you saying that a hundred percent. Yes. But, and that's what I was kind of leads me into what I was going to say is I think time and experience
00:29:21
Speaker
changes us, changes us. And, and, and so sometimes when the brand new teachers come into the building and they're like, and I'm going to do this, and I'm going to do this, and I'm going to have this, and it's going to be amazing. And I'm going to have a white carpet. And you're like, probably white with kids, but they all
00:29:40
Speaker
There's an old saying, you guys love my old sayings, but there's an old saying that says every generation has to touch the stove. Yeah. Right? Every generation has to touch the stove. And so every teacher is going to have to go through, I can conquer the world. I can do it all. I can be the end all be all on everything. And like you said, Sarah, there is a burnout rate. We talk about stamina and kids. Well, teachers have stamina too.
00:30:04
Speaker
And sometimes our stamina runs out after a while and we're like, OK, I'm getting burnt out. I'm not going to be able to maintain this. And I think it's experience and time has a way of saying, OK, I can empathize with those teachers that I thought were losing it or I thought weren't doing what they should have been doing. And now I understand. Absolutely. That's been probably within the last couple of years.
00:30:33
Speaker
my eyes have really opened to that. And I am kind of ashamed at some of the things that I had said in the past, because I mean, when you are a teacher that pours everything into this job, like everything, weekends, nights, like in your sleep, you're thinking of lessons, when you see people just show up,
00:30:59
Speaker
at contract time and follow a curriculum and leave at the end of their contract time, you're just like, what the heck? These kids deserve better. They deserve someone who's giving them essentially all of them their soul. And I finally am just like, no, I had it so backwards and wrong.
00:31:22
Speaker
But that's the great thing about it is that you have now recognized that. Yeah. That's huge. It's finding that balance. I think sometimes when we first start out, we're on the way end of like, rah, rah, rah. And then you have the other end that's like, okay, I'm excited to be here. But so somehow we got to find somewhere in the middle, you know, the middle to kind of balance it all out.
00:31:48
Speaker
I appreciate your honesty though, Sarah, because it is only time and experience that helps you to see those things. And I think just like having those open conversations and like, I've never
00:32:04
Speaker
heard somebody say that. I've never heard somebody say, oh, I was judgmental of teachers who followed a canned curriculum or showed up at their contract hours. And like, that was just something, I don't know. I just feel like we just need to have those conversations more and be more real about this job.
00:32:21
Speaker
We do, but I think that's what we, us three, minimum, expect is people to pour their hearts into it because we give so much in the areas that we run in. Areas we don't run in, it is what it is, but you're like, Sarah, you and I run in culture climate. That's our thing. I walk in your room and then I walk out and we got three other ideas for the school to make it better, and then we can't say no, and then we're stuck in a project.
00:32:47
Speaker
you know like Abby you walk in and we're running on with the podcast so we all run in the areas but it's hard to not judge people who are walkers in a lot of areas it just is because we want the best for our school we want to be the school everybody talks about and for some teachers who we've worked with in the past or who you know that doesn't mean anything to them.
00:33:09
Speaker
It's a difference between a job and a passion. I will stand up and say this, that it's very subjective. It's always subjective. And we titled this podcast, It's All About Perspective, because that's really what it is. It's your perspective on, you know, Sarah and myself being great teachers, because somebody else may look at us and say,
00:33:31
Speaker
They're okay, but they could be stronger in this area or this area. So I really think that it's so subjective. Because again, somebody can can listen to this podcast and say, yeah, Robertson, okay, principle, you know, that's true. And there's a lot of people who think that and that's their perspective. And they're probably not wrong in some areas.
00:33:50
Speaker
You know, so I just, I think that ultimately we teach our kids, you know, stand up for yourself, believe in yourself, do what you want to do. But yet, again, going back a couple conversations ago, we have a hard time doing that ourselves. You know, it shouldn't matter what some other teacher thinks.
00:34:08
Speaker
if we decide to leave the school or we decide to move a grade level or we decide to leave the profession altogether. It shouldn't matter if the teacher next door is upset because I printed everything on Astrobrights or if I stayed till six o'clock, but yet we do allow that to influence us and make us determine whether we're a good teacher or a not good teacher.
00:34:34
Speaker
Why do you think, why do you both think I've, I've thought this many times, the profession is, it's not anything like sports profession or anything like that.
Why Isn't Teaching More Collaborative?
00:34:44
Speaker
Like sports teams, they're all in, they're all for each other. Why is the profession of teaching so competitive mentally? Well, I think we all want to be the best. Do we all?
00:35:04
Speaker
I do. I know you do. I can't, I don't know. And I don't know. I think that that probably, if we're the classroom with the lowest test scores and that's, you know, printed for everyone to see, like it was at my other school, my old school, it was printed in the teacher's lounge and it's just like, oh my gosh, for real? Like this has to be broadcasted to everybody. Nobody wants that to be that teacher, but
00:35:34
Speaker
at the same time, and then we'll say that like, Oh, the test scores don't really matter when we're low, but when we're high, it feels good. And you're like, you ride on that high. And so I don't, I really don't think that any teacher goes into this profession saying, you know, if I get low test scores, whatever, like it's what it is. We all want to do and be our best. And I think that, I mean, if we're, if we don't, then
00:36:04
Speaker
Why do you think though, like going back, I'm thinking of a specific time. And this is where personalities come into it. If you look at like we live in Vegas. So if you look at the Golden Knights, I'm sure all of those guys don't like each other. You know, I'm sure it's not Kumeyaay. Somebody's got to not like somebody.
00:36:21
Speaker
But going back to a specific time, you know, personalities play into it, but why can't we as a group of teachers believe that success for one is success for all of us? I feel like there's just the competitiveness there and it's because personalities jump in there, but why can't we have that team mentality? I was thinking as Sarah was speaking and as you were Robert, that it's a reflection of you.
00:36:48
Speaker
It's a reflection of you. And so if you're saying, oh, one, you know, can't, one success is a success for all. Well, if you're the teacher that has worked, that has the class that, for instance, in kindergarten,
00:37:04
Speaker
everybody well i'm not gonna say everybody cuz we know a hundred percent a hundred a hundred percent of time is not really gonna happen but let's say that out of twenty kids eighteen of my kids have mastered all fifty sight words let's just say that but then the next teacher has twenty kids and only five
00:37:22
Speaker
have mastered all of the sight words. So that's a reflection on me as it is a reflection on that teacher. And so if you're that teacher that you're not getting those results, now it could be results of you have all the students that were retained, who knows what the logistics are, but then that becomes a reflection of you and it becomes an imprint on you. And so you're either gonna be that teacher that says, I'm gonna do better or you already feel defeated.
00:37:51
Speaker
And you already feel like you're the weakest link. And yeah, I feel like when you are literally pouring everything that you have and then you don't see the benefits of that, it becomes personal. And then I think it kind of taints your relationships with your coworkers because maybe they feel better than you. Or I mean, I don't know. I just think that it's part of this culture.
00:38:19
Speaker
How much of human nature plays into it, though? You know, I mean, or or just like you said, Sarah, you know, maybe it's youth or inexperience or your personality where you judge people, you judge their personalities. And so one thing that always bothered me just being us being honest on this podcast is when you won Teacher of the Game.
00:38:39
Speaker
Not very many people told you congratulations. That really bugged me because here I am trying to create this environment where success for one is success for all of us. You know, if all of Abby's kids are proficient and all of Sarah's kids are proficient, then that helps second, third, fourth, fifth. And I don't know if it's just a personality thing or a judgmentalness, but why can't we as educators kind of get past that and celebrate the successes of all?
00:39:06
Speaker
I think it's depending on the situation because I think a lot of dynamics play into it. I think a lot of how vocal you allow your staff to be, if you allow them to freely give their opinions or if you have an open door policy, what kind of climate you're cultivating as the admin.
00:39:31
Speaker
And so one thing that this doesn't really go along with exactly what you asked, but I was thinking about if you're a secretary and at a job, you're you're not testing patients and getting their scores and the scores are relevant to your work.
00:39:48
Speaker
And so in our profession and teaching, it's so driven by data and so driven by what you have. And again, it's a reflection of you. And so if somebody is getting an award and you feel like, man, I've been working just as hard. I've been working my butt off. And where's my trophy? And not that everybody has to have a trophy, but I just feel like that's where it can brew some of the
00:40:16
Speaker
Animosity, my friend from Kentucky, who's a kindergarten teacher, she's an all or nothing kind of teacher. At her school, they all have to do the same thing. So she says when she wants to do an amazing lesson, she has to duplicate it six times for six teachers. And then there's the teachers that are like, hmm, this is the most ridiculous thing ever. Here she did the work for them, you know? So you're always gonna have the people who are willing to go above and beyond, and then you're gonna have always the people that are like,
00:40:44
Speaker
Oh, well, it was a terrible day. And I just, that teacher of the game just like kind of got me a little because I think I got one email congratulating me. We're like the whole school knew because we had an assembly. But I really maybe to give some people a little bit more grace than they deserve. I think that ultimately it comes the competitiveness comes down to having relationships.
00:41:13
Speaker
And I feel at my core, if somebody that I love and respect is doing amazing, I am genuinely happy and proud of them. But if it's somebody that I don't know very well, that I see every once in a while, I'm not going to have that reaction necessarily. That's going to be something that I probably have to like talk myself into and like be like and make myself kind of
00:41:39
Speaker
be happy for them. But I think that if you had, which is impossible, like we just talked about that, you can't have everyone love and necessarily respect each other, because there's so many different personalities. Can't. Yeah, one thing I have learned this year opening a new school is that it's my firm belief. And again, we have we have great people at our school, we hired great people, the teaching, we wanted great people who are good teachers, not great teachers who are bad people.
00:42:09
Speaker
because the relationships matter so much. And you have to have that respect to be okay and be happy for a person that you care about. So I understand what you're saying. I want to shift gears. Whenever we do interviews, you always ask people what's something innovative that you have done? And very, very rarely can they come up with something. In your opinion, why is innovation so important?
00:42:36
Speaker
I don't know. I guess just stepping outside of your comfort zone and trying something that you've never tried before and just
00:42:48
Speaker
making something big and amazing for your kids. I just feel like everyone should do that. I think maybe it's the way that we phrase it that people don't understand. But when I say what's something that you've done that's innovative, like I want to know a lesson that you created from scratch, or I want to know how you took something or a standard and how you made that amazing for your kids. Or I mean, it could be it could be anything, but just something that's outside the box and something that
00:43:17
Speaker
came from like your brain, not from somewhere else. Why is that important to you that they have that ability? Because I want our teachers to be thinkers and I want our teachers to be, I want them to like have that craft that I feel like us as teachers should have. Like when I went to college and I was making lessons from scratch, like those big, elaborate, fun lessons that probably make no sense now,
00:43:47
Speaker
I just I want to know that people can do that and that they can look at a standard and say oh there's something really fun I can do here with that instead of like what are you gonna like what lesson are you gonna give me today for me to read to the class you know okay abby what about you what do you think about innovation I think that
00:44:14
Speaker
trying new things. Again, my skill would be something as simple as trying something new, dressing up in a costume, trying something different that it doesn't have to be this huge elaborate lesson, but could be letting your kids ride on their desk with dry erase markers. It could be using colored paper for something. It can be the little things, but the little things turn into big things.
00:44:41
Speaker
And innovation, to me, very much aligns with what Sarah says, is kind of stepping out of the box. And we talked in a previous podcast about how you had asked the teachers to do a Rock Your School Day. And there were people that were grumbling. There were people that were upset. There were people that were like, hey, this is not for me. But when they actually did it, they were like, wow, this was a lot more fun than I thought it was.
00:45:06
Speaker
Now, did they have to go and be as elaborate the next time? No, but it kind of opened that door or so to speak Pandora's box of like, okay, this is a little bit more easier than I thought it was going to be. And my kids were, you know, so excited. And I think I want to try this again. So to me, innovation is kind of stepping outside of that little box, that little comfort zone and trying something new, regardless of how small or elaborate
00:45:36
Speaker
Somebody else could think it is so so now taking that one thing that you both do really well moving into social media is You kind of taught me over the past few years of the power of social media in terms of innovation One area where we talked about where I got in trouble. I'm like go watch so-and-so on Instagram They have a great idea and that just create animosity which we talked about in the past But so like Sarah you guys can both answer this, you know what?
00:46:03
Speaker
What has social media done for you? I mean, like Sarah, of course, I've watched your journey going to RCA and me and Hope and Wade and moving up through the ranks of, you know, all of that. And now you are really high up in all of them, get your teach on. So social media has really helped you on that aspect.
Social Media's Influence on Educational Careers
00:46:21
Speaker
But then Abby, of course, the other side, but can you guys talk about how social media has kind of changed your careers? Well, I feel like I need to preface the whole social media thing with like,
00:46:32
Speaker
if it's not bringing you joy and if it's making you feel bad inside, then it's not working. And I feel like that's been something that I've struggled with a lot. And there's been a lot of people that I've had to unfollow on social media because I just feel less than when I see their content. But I do think the flip side, the positive side of social media is just having a community of teachers
00:47:00
Speaker
where you can not only like connect with and like share in whatever you're doing in your classroom but get ideas and lessons and all that fun stuff from. Like there's been so many teachers that I've seen something that they do and then I'm able to kind of take that and tweak that and make that work for my classroom. Doesn't look exactly the same as what they did but it's like beautiful for me and what I'm doing. I mean sometimes I just
00:47:30
Speaker
take it and do it exactly because that happens too. But yeah, I mean, just having a community has been huge. And Abby, I think Abby has said it before, like, being able, like, we've never been able to be inside so many teachers classrooms, like that is
00:47:49
Speaker
Well, and as you were speaking, I was thinking about, I think one thing that makes it for me almost like a mandatory thing in my mind for me is because my husband doesn't get teaching at all.
00:48:04
Speaker
Which most, we might talk about this at a later date, but most spouses of educators don't get it. Now, that's not to say he's not supportive, because he's very supportive. And he would always come to my classroom and help me put stuff up. I remember there were days I'm like, can you please bring me a Diet Pepsi? And he would bring me one. So I'm not talking about the support, but he just doesn't get education. He listened to our first podcast and he's like, you guys make no sense. So,
00:48:32
Speaker
If you're not married to an educator, it's hard to have those conversations outside of your immediate colleagues that you're building, because nobody understands it. My family, my dad, my sister, my brother, none of them are in education, so they just don't get it. So having a community of people that you can say, hey, feed up Friday, and they totally get it. Or if you say, I'm exhausted, I'm going to bed at five o'clock tonight, and other teachers are like, yep,
00:49:00
Speaker
We hear you. We totally understand where other people are like, that is so dumb. Like you're around five year olds all day. So I think having that support and those people that have that understand and relate to you, I think that is one of the great things about social media. I think you were kind of leading more into how his social media changed our career paths.
00:49:21
Speaker
And so for me, I think I had shared this story before and we're running late on time, so I'm going to be quick. But I had a blog years ago. It was like a lifestyle blog. So I had been in blogging before. I was aware of blogging and networking and things like that. And so once
00:49:44
Speaker
I started teaching kindergarten. It just turned into a kindergarten blog and social media, yada, yada, yada. It's opened a lot of doors for me. I've been able to do professional development. I've been able to help a lot of teachers. I've met just amazing people. It's just, it's afforded me a lot of opportunities that I wouldn't have had, had I not put myself out on social media. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. My, I guess the biggest
00:50:12
Speaker
Plus with my social media has been get your teach on and the community that I have there. And like, I really have some of the greatest friends from all around the country that I've been connected with because of that. And I'm like forever grateful for that. So Sarah, what is the worst part of social media for you? I guess comparing, getting stuck in that comparison trap a hundred percent.
00:50:42
Speaker
And you're always going to have people who have mean things to say. And I try to just keep everything very light and happy, but you're always going to get those DMs that kind of bum you out and make you wish you never
00:51:00
Speaker
Yeah, we never started. Yeah, but yeah, there's always the haters and you always like 1000 positives times one criticism is equals one criticism. And that's the ones that stick with us. It just it just really stinks when people criticize you because all you're trying to do is help
00:51:17
Speaker
the people that want help. So I just I just struggle with that. And I know it bugs both of you. I know it bugs Sarah, I'm sure like when someone's like, yeah, something bad on there. And I just think social media has so many positives, but there are negatives as well. And that's what bugs you. So yeah, yeah. Awesome. All right. Well, are you ready? Because you get to be the first guest to do rapid fire.
00:51:41
Speaker
Okay. All right. So I have the questions. Are you ready? All right. Who inspires you in your life? Who, who inspires me in my life? I feel like I have to like really think about these questions. These aren't rapid fire. Okay. This one I asked, like my husband, obviously like he's a given.
00:52:08
Speaker
and my kids. Yeah. But Dax Shepard, he has a podcast that I am completely in love with. Like he has been, I mean, he is like the driving force. I talk about him like he's my best friend. He's the driving force that like took me to therapy. Like he's like part of every good thing in my life. Like all the best books that I've read all like so many big aha moments for me. So I would say Dax Shepard. Yes.
00:52:38
Speaker
His podcast armchair expert is my faith. Who or what inspires you in education? I would probably say like everybody involved in Get Your Teach On and Get Your Teach On. Like that's kind of like a shameless plug there. But yeah, I mean, just like everybody involved with Get Your Teach On is amazing. They inspire me every day. And just being at the conferences are like inspiration to the max.
00:53:07
Speaker
What turns you off in education? Oh, I think can curriculums, everybody doing the same thing, principals that don't like get education and also districts that don't get education. What do you want your colleagues to do?
Celebrating Achievements and Emotional Connections
00:53:34
Speaker
Love and support each other.
00:53:38
Speaker
What do you not want them to do? Compete. Why are you laughing? It's just not what I expected you to say. And I know you very well, but I mean, it's just, again, I think it just shows your maturation over time. So yeah, I, whatever that means. And it shows her Enneagram six.
00:54:04
Speaker
I think I'm a tooth Sarah made me take it one night at like nine o'clock and I think I'm a two three or three two I had no idea what that means that every person needs to Take the Enneagram learn about the Enneagram and I feel like the world would be a better place Another plug for Enneagram. Yep What do you want most from your administration To support and Let us do our thing
00:54:33
Speaker
but also have our back. I think that in this time, I am so incredibly grateful with all the ups and downs in education that I have administration that I know like no matter what news is coming out, no matter what is coming up next week, you guys have our backs and like that means everything. We try. It's hard to keep all this stuff away from you, but we do try. It's a challenge.
00:55:02
Speaker
What's one lesson or piece of advice you receive that you can share? Um, go to therapy. I, I just, I feel like if anybody's just even thinking about it, just go, just go to psychology today, find somebody, but also just step outside your comfort zone. That was something that I mean, so many people have said to me because I'm so shy and all of the best things happen when I step outside my comfort zone. So growth happens outside the comfort zone.
00:55:32
Speaker
And if that means going to therapy, then there you go. It does. Good for you. What is your favorite memory or accomplishment during your career? Well, definitely one of my favorite memories was getting the teacher of the game award. That was a year where I had looped with my kindergarteners. And so they were with me. I had such a tight bond with them and.
00:55:58
Speaker
like we had a whole assembly and everybody's cheering and I've got this giant check for $500. And just one of my students, Brianna, she looked up at me and she said, Mr. Louie, I'm so proud of you. And like that was the moment like to this day kind of it brings me to tears like that was the highlight for sure. Last one, if you could change education in one way, what would it be?
00:56:26
Speaker
Oh gosh, this is the last one. We have another hour you guys. Just one, you can only pick one way. I mean, what's one thing like that you just hate that you would just get rid of? I mean, like everything outside of teaching. Like, just if I if I could go in the classroom every day and just teach my kids, this profession would be a dream. But all the paperwork,
00:56:55
Speaker
and dealing with district mandated stuff and all the other things that teachers get piled on top on their plates like on top of actual instruction is the part that I can't stand. Also, I think that this profession would be a lot better if teachers had more time to plan. I'll just say that too. Great. I just want to say publicly that I have one of the highlights of my career has been watching both of you.
00:57:25
Speaker
grow to where you are at. And it has been a pleasure and though you've taken separate paths and many times you've bumped into each other along the way to see where you're at now is very rewarding for me just as a person and as a friend of both of yours. So there was no doubt who I wanted to be the first guest on this podcast and there's no doubt who I wanted to do the podcast with and I appreciate you both and I just want to say thank you publicly for letting me be a part of your journey.
00:57:51
Speaker
Oh, that's so sweet. You've been so sappy lately, Robert. He's getting older, sir. That's what happens as you get older. And he's older than both of us, so we can say that. I am, I am. Well, Robert, too, I'm very thankful for you and the journey that, I mean, I'm sure Abby can relate, but what you let us do as teachers and
00:58:21
Speaker
Well, thank you. Thank you. I have, I have thoroughly enjoyed today. I know it's been a long one, but, um, it was important because Sarah can hit on so many of the topics that we've covered and give her perspective on it. So it was important to have her on here, but no matter where you stand on the issues or what you think Sarah, do you know what to say? It's all about perspective. Have a great week and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks for joining us.
00:58:58
Speaker
Thanks for listening to today's podcast. We would love to hear your perspective on this episode. Head over to our Instagram page. It's all about Perspective 2021, or our Facebook and Twitter page and share your opinion. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review on whatever platform you're listening to this podcast. And one last thing. Remember, it's all about perspective.