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Peak behind the curtain of Hamilton Accies FC with Director of Football Gerry Strain
130 Plays3 months ago
Discover the inner workings of Hamilton Accies FC with Director of Football, Gerry Strain. Truly one of football's good guys! From securing new players to navigating the challenges of running a football club in Scotland, get an exclusive look behind the scenes.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:02
Speaker
Messi, Messi! Oh, my goodness! Italy, Accuero... Oh! That is extraordinary! What a hit! What a hit! Back of the net. Back of base, sparks in the software Flash the message, something's out there Floating in the summer sky With 99 red balloons
00:00:47
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Not A Pundit podcast. That was 99 Red Balloons as covered by Anna Vrin, a band local, I believe, to Hamilton. And I am delighted to be joined as ever by Nathan Byrne and Connor Glennon, and this week by a director of football and board member of Hamilton, academically, Jerry Strain.
Hamilton's Summer Strategy
00:01:07
Speaker
Jerry, thank you very much for joining us. and How are you getting on? How has the ah the summer window been? i Good evening, lads. Summer window's been fine.
00:01:17
Speaker
I think summer to last year we got our business done early with anticipation of going on a good cup run but sometimes you know the best lead plans don't come to fruition so we can knock down unfortunately in the group stages that's the second year in the row so we need to do better next year.
Jerry's Football Career Reflections
00:01:39
Speaker
Well, we will get on to Hamilton, but I kind of want to start with yourself first, because I believe you did actually come true as a player yourself, and I believe you actually played for Queen of the South, am I right in saying? I wouldn't say come true. There wasn't a good enough to get in the first team, but I was more of a trier. Initially, I went down South actually from school. That never worked out, and eventually you're going to find your level. But I was, Ruan Alexander was keen enough to give me a chance at Queen of the South.
00:02:09
Speaker
And then they brought me in and realised how bad I was. so a inevitable game but To be fair, in my defence, there was guys like Jamie McAllister and stuff there who wanted to have tremendous careers with the likes of Aberdeen Hearts they won the Cup with Livingston and they went down to Bristol. David Lilly went on to have a good career as well with Aberdeen and abroad and back to Colmarnock, so Queens are a really good team at the time.
00:02:35
Speaker
um To be honest, my own head probably wasn't in the right place because I realised I wasn't going to play at the level I wanted to play at. And instead of pre-sating football for for the beauty of it, I probably resented it.
Changes in Football Culture
00:02:50
Speaker
I resented the fact that I put so much into something I wasn't going to get a turn from. And it wasn't the arrogance, but I just didn't see myself playing junior football at any level apart from the level I wanted to be at. Now, as a 44-year-old looking back,
00:03:07
Speaker
I wish I'd even played amateur. You know because you're winning time, time doesn't wait for you and now that I'm still in football but certainly a different side of it, you can look at it and you look at at the dressing room, you look at the lads and you can appreciate what you actually missed out on for a number of years just because i'd i'd say I'd say though, it gives you perspective with those lads to be able to kind of you know speak their language and and yeah, you know you didn't go to the the ranks that you personally wanted to, but you know you're in those change rooms and it's you know whether whether it's a top flight team or or or not, it's it's usually the same kind of characters knocking around each dressing room. Yeah, that's a good point. but I think football's changed so much that... um What would have been acceptable to me or normal to me in a dressing room?
00:03:55
Speaker
you wouldn't get away with now. Certainly back when I was a kid there wasn't any entitlement. To be entitled you had to be special and then you had the pressure of the boys in the restroom making sure that if you were on the special you knew you were on the entitled whereas now I've got a different perspective and stuff and there is a lot of entitlement in the game and I think that comes through between a rock and a hard place, the academy thing, not just that, because you give kids a tracksuit at 10 or 12 when they So they're going to have to eat when it starts early through the education process. And ah ultimately what happens is, I think it's the 1% of kids make it. um Whereas back with the old routine, um it was it was almost that you get picked up if you're good enough to be picked up. And then the journey would begin. And not that's where I fell short for me.
00:04:52
Speaker
getting a chance to go down south was an escape. But I wasn't mature enough to realise that was the opportunity just starting. For me it was a case of, okay, I've landed here and I'm away from a social environment I didn't want to be in.
Hamilton's Academy Values and Community
00:05:07
Speaker
But I wasn't mature enough to appreciate foot sat in front of me. Now you've got these academies in place and kids automatically by default think they're footballers with age of 10 or whatever.
00:05:17
Speaker
You watch them, they've obviously been copying people off match of the day, you know, tying your tackles round about the deck and it just, something that's kind of frustrating. You know, it's it's lost a bit of the, for me it's lost a bit of the beauty and it's lost a bit of the reality. I think the game's changing as well so much, you know, in terms of what players are asked to do and you hear different phraseologies, you're low blocks and all this stuff.
00:05:41
Speaker
you see You see it happening a lot in the UK. There's there's kind of the entitlement around academies. and you know Ireland, we're we're not as fortunate to have the ah the the academy system that that's that's over over in the UK. Within Scotland, are you seeing similar to the UK? Is it is it creeping in slowly or is it just kind of around the same level as the UK in general? you Yeah, it's certainly in the game to answer that question, but I think we're lucky at Hamilton. We've had a great academy for years, the academy was set up. We also had a guy called Les Gray, Frank Machiavelli, who's now assistant manager at HUBS. He's sorry it hurts.
00:06:17
Speaker
They were absolutely outstanding, you know, in terms of what they were doing and how they were doing it. um Not sure players like McCarthy, you know, who played for Ireland. Jair MacArthur played for Scotland, Bryan Easton and so on. um And then when Frank left, there's a guy called George Kearns that took over and he had relative success as well by delivering two European campaigns for around three teams. They'd done that through the delivery of ah ah a level of discipline with the kids. want The kids all wore black boots, the shirts had to be tucked in, they had to do their chores. These are all perfect fer good it good good values that the m but have a ah place. And then obviously staying in Gazzone and kids want to express themselves, then they want to stick on a pair of blue boots because they think they're messy or whatever.
00:07:02
Speaker
I suppose you have to move with the times. But I think because of the good work of Les Gray, Frank, latterly George, I think we've been been lucky
Ownership and Financial Challenges
00:07:13
Speaker
that the academies know we're more entitled ones. I can't pass Covid and other ones because it's not my place. But I just know the values of the club are really good and they're really strong and they're consistent. We but kind of get old working class values that you would have had that are very ah reminiscent of older Scotland or Ireland, you know, we're refugees, we're immigrants, you know, my family, so we're Irish, but the Aspera, I refer to that as home, you know, when I'm back over in Dublin and Meath. So that, you see, they feel like the GAA is an example, fantastic community. It's played for the love of the game, it's played for the desire of the game, and to me that's traditional values that football used to have, but it's
00:07:59
Speaker
moved on a bit from and it's lost. I think what's beautiful about that though is like, you know, values it isn't, isn't something you can buy. it's It's not something you can, okay. I suppose you can bring in the right people to do it, but I do think at at its core, a club either has it or it doesn't. That's, we're lucky because the the club does have it. Um, ah has it because it's been instilled from day one, but with those guys I've mentioned previously, according to one of the clubs, a Turkish guy, a Sheriff Zengen,
00:08:28
Speaker
Again, great guy, just very, very hard working, very humble. um So those values be consistent and if any any of you are familiar with Turkey, the values in Turkey are quite similar. You know, I know it gets a bad rep and stuff but I don't think that's...
00:08:44
Speaker
but They're very family-oriented people. Very consistent, very family-oriented, good values. Affirm commitment to the owner and so on. I think those values that Sheriff has will be rolled out across our entire football club. We started doing that already, but it's noveme without its challenges.
00:09:01
Speaker
um but but and And how did he come to be involved in the club? It was been there for 13 years as a significant investor. and I think a two years ago when I first became involved, I attempted to buy the club. um The mechanics of it weren't quite right. The stadium wasn't part of the deal which then made it wasn't commercially viable for me. yeah The financial resource I had, I didn't think it was significant enough to t take it on.
00:09:32
Speaker
Now two years down the line I'm happy I didn't take it on because they went to the wall with my lack of real understanding how football actually works. But Sheriff was a director when I joined the club and then last year he acquired the football club minus the stadium.
00:09:49
Speaker
and now he's in the process of trying to acquire the stadium. So he's been in there for 30 years, but he's a grassroots guy. He's been heavily involved with grassroots football for kids at taught age. He's right the way through to 21s and so on. He just loves football. And if you met him, he's quite an inspirational guy.
00:10:09
Speaker
you know What's great that he's been in the back room for so long, you know, like I didn't really realise he'd been around for so long as as an investor. And I think that speaks volumes to his, I suppose, view of where he wants to bring the team. He's well we've been committed. I think he's a fan in the club.
00:10:26
Speaker
um That's because he's been there for so long, he's invested so much into it, both financially, emotionally, mentally. He is a ah legitimate fan of the club, you know, he can't even call it any question. Part of the challenge for me is that I'm viewed as an outsider, maybe. I know because, you know, I'm perceived, I was perceived as someone supporting another club from Scotland, so you don't get a lot of leeway. But the reality is, I've been in there for two years and once you run it and you invest in it emotionally, ah that does become your club. But it's safe to understand to some people who are lifelong fans that that bit of acceptance might be more difficult for me to get, you know?
00:11:06
Speaker
You're only a blow-in. Jerry, just a quick one from me. In terms of the academy aspect of football, I find it really interesting. How important do you think it is to to get through the values of the club into these academies? Because, as you said, I think football's progressed into a way that it's it's very warm.
00:11:28
Speaker
in my opinion one dimensional in terms of here's the tactics that we're going to go out and a lot of teams follow the same ones so ah how would you think like importance wise how how how important it is to get to get these values into these players? I think that's the core of principles it's really fundamental that that's that's where it begins as a journey and utopia for us would be to have a loving homegrown Aki's players that have come right the way through that feature in your first team The reality is that's maybe never going to happen. you know that's and Just because there's players come February. but if you If you get it set up where it's fundamentally right and people have got the right values, the right consistency, the right credibility and delivery, there's a greater chance of ah we achieveing you a high percentage of your first team.
00:12:18
Speaker
that background, we finished the season. We are living players in the park who either came through the academy or were part of the academy and moved on to create ourselves when we came back. um So our last game against Guilty Hearts of the last campaign, we played tremendously well with a large number of kids and then we'd seen your pros who had left us, one went down to West Ham, some went to other clubs in Scotland and and so on. um but we funny But we finished, we finished by living in the park who were that's that's That's amazing. And you know I think when you've got players coming through at volume like like that, even if you know they move on to other teams, I think if you're instilling those values in them, you know you're contributing to football as a whole, be it wherever they go, you know you're kind of sending in a a good egg to their team. Yeah, it's been something. Certainly I can't take the credit it for that and neither can Sheriff because those those m
00:13:10
Speaker
the groundwork for that were in place 10, 15 years ago. you know Some of the players are counting towards the end of the careers now and they've been in our academy maybe 10, 15 years ago. So what we're not saying in our current position is that that's down to us. But I think what it is though is it's very consistent with Sheriff's belief in who he wants to achieve um and what he wants the fans to buy into. The biggest guess problem is commercial revenue streams are pretty much non-existent for us because Glasgow Celtic Rangers take the bulk of fans to demographicate it where we're precipitated.
00:13:45
Speaker
um We're a far bigger demographicated and mother will get four and a half thousand season ticket holders. We've got 400. When you look at that in monetary terms, it's it's a tenfold difference and it makes ah makes a massive difference to the bottom line. In addition to that, one of my concerns and where I'm chipping my shoulder is that Although we've represented Scotland and Europe two occasions over the last five years by playing in the Champions League equivalent for the 18th, we don't get any money from the SFA or UEFA, but there's certain teams in the SPL who don't have academies, who don't invest as much as we do in the academy, and they go in at half a million quid almost per year. And why is that? am Well, when asked the question, I was told chickens don't vote for Christmas.
00:14:37
Speaker
That's a bit of an answer. And unfortunately, if you complain about it, you're making it odd for your own back. We're certain people that that don't like you asking questions or having an opinion of your own. Do you know, it's very playful. Is that referring to the UEFA Youth League? To be fair to you, if I ever give ah port a pot of cash to and it's for the benefit of clubs who are not competing in Europe,
00:15:04
Speaker
that cash can be distributed evenly across them and they can then invest it in their youth. And the whole purpose of it is it's to get the academies up running and and and and not just talent and grow it. um But the it's called the cash system in Scotland, it's the the elite system. So we're an anomaly. Last year we played in the third tier of Scottish football where there three full-time clubs and the rest were part-time. But our kids performed in Europe against Molde yourhead Which is mad. I don't know about you boys, but like it really reminds me of the Irish football system and in that way that you've got those big players that are the professional teams. you know You've got teams outside of that that are bringing through talent, but all the money's flown one way. But you know i think that what the sfa and are providing that cautiouss I think the I think, the worser end of that because you know
00:16:00
Speaker
You aim for a bigger organisation, but you think the SFA would take care of their own because you know from other people we've talked to, Scotland is one that comes up a lot for managers and it seems like the SFA put a lot of cash into the managerial side of the house. But from the playing point of view, it it seems like getting left behind in some regard.
Funding Models and Strategic Decisions
00:16:18
Speaker
Jack, can you clear the size of the SFA, to be honest?
00:16:20
Speaker
um because ultimately they've given a bit of autonomy to the teams that are the biggest teams perceivably in the league because they're playing SPL. um I have communicated with the chief executive SFE and he's came back to me and he's answered the questions that I've asked. That's all ah so you can ask for I suppose. It doesn't put money in your bank, it doesn't help your bottom line and I guess my bonus intention is morally, I think that we're at a disadvantage. you know We move but put so much in the academy, we give so many kids an opportunity. We feed the kids. you know what it's you know bit We do so much as a community entity. The cost of it is significant for a club of our size in comparative terms to our budget.
00:17:09
Speaker
And I just don't think we get the help that is required. But that's my gripe. And the only way that we can remedy that is by getting the first team promoted back to the SPL and then we get a cut to the pie. um But on a personal level, I would like to see what I did learn last year through the League One journey that we had. You could do any teams like Annan and Kelty Harps and Queenie and the South and so on.
00:17:36
Speaker
They're real community clubs, we're real community focused, we're real community academies. In order to have their own demographic area, they put facilities on. The money should be spread in my opinion, evenly, evenly across the whole of Scottish football whereby academy facilities are provided.
00:17:52
Speaker
um yeah Or even even a base level that goes out to each team as as kind of the, the I suppose, there's there's a ceiling on the investment, but there is a investment. you know I just think there's ah there's a better way of doing it. um And I think in addition to that, you know if we qualified for the SPL this year through the league, please go ahead.
00:18:11
Speaker
if there was a vote, I would vote for the money to be shared more equally. You know, it wouldn't be a case of, that might be against Sherris when she's written off, but and I just think that in interest of support and integrity and and and making things for you for kids all over the place, that there has to be a bigger share of the pie to help you.
00:18:28
Speaker
Well, it's similar in the sports in America. You know you look across the NBA, the NFL, it's it's it's equal kind of profit share for all teams, whether you've got Ronaldo on your team or you've got insert player. you know you're You're getting the same jersey sale cash. that To me, that's like that's an intelligent model because it's based in it based in the principles of sport and integrity and in trying to across all levels.
00:18:52
Speaker
you know but um it' It's just's a lack of money in Scotland, and I guess, that's hampered in a lot of clubs. A lot of people say there's too many clubs. um that That's just a fair and valid point. But then when you go into these clubs, like we did in the League of Windsor on the last year, and you see that there weren't the kids at the games. it's The game's all about the kids, it's all about the next generations.
00:19:14
Speaker
because try to tell the fans who whose team shouldn't exist or not. That's where my brain was going. I was like, how do you make that call? That's it. But it's like the next generations that matter. And I think it's incumbent on us to get kids involved in the game and and get kids interested in the game. And no disrespect to safety arrangers.
00:19:32
Speaker
But it's incumbent on us to create more Hamilton fans. Do you know? 100%! You can take them away if you sell to Rangers because you know, it's not that you don't need them. But Scotty Shootball needs fans to support everyone appropriately, you know?
00:19:45
Speaker
and Now, one of the things, though, to give give you credit, like rightly or wrongly, with the way the funding model has been kind of handled, you have gotten creative in using your Turkish connections now to build relationships over there and trying to kind of spread the name out a little bit more. like Is there any of like new ideas that you're bringing true? Because in fairness to yourself, like you kind of came into the club at possibly the lowest ebb they've been at in 20 odd years.
00:20:16
Speaker
like i am and I have them rebuilding now back fairly sustainably whilst also putting money
Hamilton's Rebuilding Strategy
00:20:23
Speaker
where the amount is. I believe you have the second highest fee in club history this this summer like there's very little I can see that to criticise of Yi but with with everything that's coming up against you. Hi, I think there's no way through its challenges when I but i was in ah joined the club 2022 um
00:20:45
Speaker
It was a strange, it was a strange baptism with you. It's maybe not for this podcast, but... You can tell us after it. No, I think obviously my intention was to buy the club for the period of the summer. It never came to fruition because, you know, although I could raise a capital to buy the club, that wasn't an issue, it was the long-term sustainability of it.
00:21:11
Speaker
And kid I kind of balked at that without the club, sorry, without the stadium, without the revenue streams for the shop, without the revenue streams from every other aspect of it. It just wasn't a financially viable model for me that I could identify with. um And a guy called Colin McGown, a great guy, and asked me to get involved with the club to bring in commercial revenues, which I was happy to do. but And actually ah but my position meant for the director of football, the commercial director, to whatever else it was. you know and And when I ah turned up for the first game, we played Martin, first game of the season at the ballroom, and Chairman sitting holding fort, getting up there to introduce yourself, you know, and a guy called Dave McKinnon. He's like a great guy. He played the Rangers in Arsenal. And Dave introduced himself as the director of football.
00:21:57
Speaker
The next time I was going to see him, Jerry directed a football.
00:22:03
Speaker
And then none of the two easy they say in the football side. Obviously we get relegated that year and the changes ensued pretty much the day after we got relegated. They knew one of them.
00:22:17
Speaker
and Is that from a playing point like playing resource point of view or everything across the board changes? I think it it became, it was in a nice atmosphere. Obviously get getting relegated was quite toxic. The fans understandably were kind of pissed off that they viewed viewed the board of directors to have been sleeping at the wheel. I think, obviously another podcast mapping of it was that I don't believe that the club supported the manager the way it should have done. We brought in a great, a great young coach at the time who was cutting his teeth in his first managerial role, a guy called John Rankin. Brilliant career, we hubs in the United and Inverness and played in Brazil. He was it as a kid, he was at Man United as well. He just lives in Breeze football. Do you know he's like a, he's just a cliche, but he's a student in the game.
00:23:14
Speaker
But the amount of working effort he puts into his job is these jobs incredible. I mean, you've got somebody like that in your club. I just think you need to give them all the resources that they need to to find their way because he's about to make mistakes, get things wrong. But fundamentally, you need to support them. And because I was acutely aware of players that I had presented to the board and they never came to anything. And Dave McKinnon had chats with Dave and Dave was putting players forward and never came to anything. But we've seen the players come into the building.
00:23:43
Speaker
became clear maybe John wasn't satisfied. And then we were up to co-rangers at Christmas time and that went really wrong with seven or eight 16-year-olds between the bench and the first team and they're playing against seasoned pros in the championship. And Yeah, it's ah it's a ah that's a hard ask for for any player or manager. I so mean, the physicality of it's a massive issue in itself and then you get the experience and then you get the inexperience to the manager who's trying to learn, but you can only you only teach a 16 year old so much they'd expect so much from them. So I thought it was maybe, I didn't think it would get relegated. I thought we'd maybe avoided it with the skin on our teeth. I suppose in hindsight, it's the best thing that happened to us.
00:24:32
Speaker
From a rebuild perspective? Yeah, yeah because it allowed us pretty much overnight to put a two-year plan in place and and attract a calibre player to the club that the manager specifically identified and wanted and then allowed us to go on a journey. What we didn't factor into was at Falkert we'd go on an unbeaten run.
00:24:50
Speaker
for the season and throw the league in a fashion that if you look at the previous performance they'd never achieved beyond 65 points over it was and last year they were just outstanding, they were the invincibles in the league. We never factored that into the equation. We thought it would be close.
00:25:09
Speaker
though It was the Joker card in the pack, though. It wasn't much of a joke, mate, believe me. It was quite sobering. But we still came up. The objective was to get promoted. And we've done it with a crazy number of points. We were miles out in second place. And it pretty much the winning of the league in the country. But folk are just superb.
00:25:33
Speaker
and we couldn't have it in our coattails. We had a lot of injuries and stuff as well. It's no excuse, but thankfully we got promoted in the end for the two-year plan still in place, you know, because you get immediate bounce back, which I think, I don't know if there's any other teams that are immediate bounce back. So that to me tells me that the managers get the credentials that he needs. And one of the things that was key was we gave John a three-year deal prior to the playoffs in the final state in place.
00:26:02
Speaker
So that was originally a leap of faith in our part. It was a demonstration of faith in them that we believe we're going to go up. But if we don't, you've got a job for three years because we believe in the right guy to take his next journey. And honestly, you need to come over. You need to come over for Ireland at some point and I'll show you around the stadium and show you how John works. It's known until you see how a guy like this works, you appreciate just what goes into a game.
00:26:33
Speaker
I've been involved with other managers, whether I've been scouting or whether I've been doing stats or analysis. It's just a level of detail that he puts into his work, the like levelly effort level of communication, the level of integrity. And that's to me, that's just phenomenal. And I feel now that he's been backed in a way that demonstrates his value.
00:26:55
Speaker
um that's I mean, you know it's great to see that being rewarded in that way. I should i should say before we go on, you know but yeah we've talked to a lot of personalities around football, some of which have been in the director of football space, and it kind of seems to change from from country to country.
00:27:12
Speaker
I suppose as succinctly as possible, what what is the role of a director of football, I suppose, in in Scotland? and and and Because it seems like it's it's across everything. you know God bless you, you're wearing a lot of hats. It depends what club you're at, I think. If you're at a club, a lot of resource and and a lot of finance behind them, you specifically deal with football.
00:27:34
Speaker
and okay okay Hamilton got a good start. Well done toilet rolls. You're yeah picking off per you know the the energy gels in the water and you're arranging kit because then you turn up and yeah you know you're dealing with players complaints. yeah um Super not logistic. Last week it was payroll because we had an issue with the bank.
00:27:57
Speaker
you know We missed some of the players get paid in time and some get paid to do later because we couldn't access our bank account for security, a security thing. You end up having to get involved with that to find a contingency to get people paid. it's um it's not What it is, it's more a kind of holistic chief execs role, probably.
00:28:19
Speaker
at a smaller club because the the resources are far, far more and far farm will less available and the headcount is neither either. So you're doing everything for them. You're doing a lot of your own research. You're doing a lot of your own recruitment and stats and analysis and then you're bouncing off the manager and he doesn't even have no fancy see what you put in front of him so you're really looking again and you're working your own recruitment guys and your own network. I've got a really good network in Ireland and because that's where a family's from them and got a lot of good contacts here. I've probably got a bigger network in Ireland than I do here. Just just because you touched her on it, I did come across an article about the the payroll issue. and Is one of the hats you kind of have to put on every so often to become like the team's Alistair Campbell, per se, where you're kind of become the little media manager and trying to deal with that? like oh
00:29:10
Speaker
how frontal how front does the role intend to be like when something like that are you the one that kind of comes out on behalf of the owner and says listen this is an issue on our side we're going to fix this or is it a little bit more kind of press things just do press things? No I think specifically in dealing with that issue it was one that was only landed my lap the day that the wages were due and I'd received an email from someone else within a club and I don't normally read these emails to be fair, you know, but I got this email and I thought, that looks as though it needs read. I don't know, it's just I got a guy in my car. I was actually, I've got a business away from the football club and I was out carrying out my own business duties. So I started scrolling through it and I quickly realized that it was an issue with security and signatories. And I phoned the guy who sent me the email and I said, what's happened with this? And he says, well, the bank, I haven't phoned me.
00:30:08
Speaker
I remember sitting thinking banks don't phone you now. Right, so right away it was the land bills in concern and it was the IB, Allied Irish Bank, who have pulled out of Scotland. I think they've actually pulled out of the UK and they're pretty much based now on Island Island. And they've got very restrictive opening hours, 95 and that's it. They don't have a chatbot service, they don't have customer service line that extends beyond five o'clock. And I'm thinking, shit, you know, we've got four hours to get people paid. The payroll was done the Tuesday, you know, through you do your siege and you submit it to HMRC, you know what nonsense one to keep in mind. But remember, think, how am I going to get everyone paid in four hours when but we can't access the bank? The funds were there. There wasn't an issue. That's the frustrating part. It's right in front of you. You just can't pull the trigger on it. There was an issue we got on the funds then.
00:31:00
Speaker
um So somebody from the bank kindly offered to do a manual process. Right, we should go in, going above and beyond for us. And but one of the criteria was that they would try and do it. Right, and I'm thinking that word try just scared me. um So I kind of elaborated a bit further in which she basically said was I can't guarantee that we'll get people paid. So hang so is I can't afford my people to to know of money hitting the bank, I can't afford it. And are you having players coming at you directly kind of going, what's the story here? Or is it kind of just like kind of figuring it out and the odd person connecting with you? No, I think so. What happened was that I wasn't aware. On the day the wages built, it was 31st of July because we'd be paying the last day of the month. So as far as I was concerned, there's a manual process taking place and people get paid and we had to trigger on that to be fair.
00:32:00
Speaker
And it became apparent that at nine o'clock on Wednesday night, one of the kids messaged me, you know, we were 18s. And they said, have we been paid today? And I'm thinking, well, if you've never been paid, there's maybe a chance that no, everybody's been paid. I immediately drafted a message to all my staff and I was like, we've got a group chat. And I furnished them with information on, they know that I didn't believe everyone had been paid so could they then let me know who was missing their salary and we can we could guarantee they'd get their wages. There wasn't any uptake on that, I think three people had contacted me. So but by default I'm sitting thinking, there's either only three people who have been paid or people just don't want to communicate back to me. And what happened after that disappointed me because that had provided
00:32:52
Speaker
correspondence from the bank, substantiating, doing the new position on it that wasn't there, wasn't a slight handering. And then I learned from one of the newspapers that the players had walked out. um So I was disappointed in that because at eight o'clock that morning, obviously the message of time stamped and so on, at eight o'clock that morning I'd basically reached out to ask, who's not being paid? Let me know and but we'll make sure you get paid today. And then the next question doing what you can like. The next correspondence I had was for the newspapers, so I guess by default that puts you in a firing line, killing. And I'm certainly running the Aleister Campbell when it comes to spin. Do you know what, I'm not getting any time for bullshit. I don't get any time for bullshit because I'm not prepared to look somebody in the eye and lead to my arm. The reason he has brought up, the reason he has brought up
00:33:46
Speaker
It goes back to the values of the club in that way. and Well, what these these are my these my family values, you know, it that came from being a tort and, like you know, I'm at Manana for physical day and stuff, and they're just good working class values that you treat people with respect, to be honest. You know, it's like, it's not difficult. It's probably harder to tell a lie, you know, because you need to tap into that creative part of your brain to come up with a lie, whereas just go and tell the truth. And if you tell the truth and people know what they're dealing with,
00:34:14
Speaker
then you can deal with it more quickly and and and more openly. But in the defence of my players, if I'd been in the dressing room, I'd probably start with them. i wouldn't doing of the walk I wouldn't have walked out. I would have kept my private business in house. I'd probably stay in the dressing room because, you know, at the end of the day, if they weren't paid and they go and get injured, you know, and and let's just say the club didn't have the money,
00:34:42
Speaker
um I don't have an issue with that at all. I guess more on the issue is a the communicative side. There's not too many industries in the world where something like that happens and the papers are one of the first to hear about it. and that That's why it was it was fascinating for me just to kind of like, how do you deal with that?
Recruitment Challenges Post-Brexit
00:34:59
Speaker
Not to dwell on things like that. and i You touched on it a couple of times and you're saying about bringing players to the manager.
00:35:07
Speaker
ah you have great ties with Ireland and I must ask you what part of Meath is your family from because I'm from Meath myself but you've signed in this window two Irish guys have you I know they one of them I think came from Coleraine another one came from within the Scottish leagues have you seen any or have has there been any moves that you've wanted to do ah been affected by Brexit because, like, it was one of these kind of boogeymen for the longest time in terms of football transfers. And it hasn't been quite as severe as initially intended. But we're seeing it over here with a lot more guys going to the continent rather than the traditional England, Scotland, through the ranks and into the into the Irish set up then. I think the Irish market is a market of great potential.
00:35:56
Speaker
um there's a lot of tremendous players there. And I think that that goes back to, again, it goes back to how Ireland set up you know for the ground upwards, the way the Scurrins set up. I don't still see them at your half-day Wednesday for your GAA. Is that still part of the curriculum? Has that changed? Not anymore, but there's definitely kind of, like like if you're part of the GAA team, as I was, then you definitely get definiteaf lighter treatment. I think it's purely because you've got people involved in ball sports.
00:36:28
Speaker
The levels of The levels of athleticism and physiology, you could argue, is better than somebody that's just playing one sport. you know It's just soccer, a football. Over there you get holly, you get hol you get yeah your G and so on. I think for your fitness perspective, if you get someone that that buys into their career,
00:36:51
Speaker
through the whole youth system, particularly in Ireland, you're getting a player that's fit, that's conditioned and that's good to go. um In terms of ability, we need to just look at some of the players we've produced. Damien Duff, you know, like really, really special talents. Roy Keane and, ah, they're less endless. And they all originated through playing with, you know, Duff obviously, can attribute Dublin, Keane down in Cork and so on. um So I think if you've got an infrastructure in place over there that can identify talent young, we could be a step in stone to allow them to get to the Premier League, either in Scotland or in England, as we have been as pathways for for other kids.
00:37:28
Speaker
To contrast that however, the the view of the SFA would be that we need to look after our own, your own homegrown talent. And that's where, I think that's where the complexities of Brexit kick in, because for me to bring in a kid that's like your 15 GB points, you know, it's unlikely you're going to get that. So you're then, you're fishing in a pool you can't afford to be in, if you're having one of that case. Because you there's a company called Centerfield, I think it is, and they can help you bring a play down for a broad within like 40 years, but you'll pay through the nose for it.
00:37:58
Speaker
Oh wow. They know what they're doing. They're geared up for that. For me to go and do it through a traditional route, you're maybe four to six weeks. One of the good things about the SFA. For an English player, or is this for an Irish player? For a foreign player, I know in the UK. But the SFA, they're really, really good and really supportive is that you can request a dispensation and you can request a panel meeting and present a case for bringing a player in or wanting to sign a player. So the SFE are really supportive in that respect. Quite the same token. Is that a case of having to pick your battles with those panel meetings or is it, for the most part, they're pretty fair? I'd like to think they're fair.
00:38:46
Speaker
Do you know, I kind of see too many experiences. I think maybe, I can only imagine if you piss them off, then they're not going to be very helpful. Do you know? Yeah, yeah. It's just human nature. But I'd like to think they were, because the SFA now, certainly, you know and over the kind of last period, seem to be a transparent organisation. It's progressive. um They might know of the rep for that. You've got a lot of bad PR because people like to focus back. But if you look at the progress I've made, the transitions I've made, and the people they've brought into the SFA. It it seems quite forward thinking, quite progressive and um I've always found them helpful. You know, same with the largely s SPFL, I've found most of the people in there helpful as well. um So I think that they just want what's best for the game, but but not at the detriment of pathways for their kids. You know, and that's, I think that's where they've kind of found balance and challenges. If we've got an academy of 298 kids,
00:39:42
Speaker
They're not going to make it. You can only have a living on your team at a time. So I just think that if I had a magic wand and I could pick how the football set up goes from 18s to the first team, we don't have any in Scotland. There's no 21s, there's no 23s, there's no reserves per se.
00:40:07
Speaker
when I was growing up. So that's a colossal jump to go from 18 to senior team. No, so you need to be exceptional. You need to be physically ready. You need to be mentally ready. You need to be good enough. You know, so I think it's unfair that clubs and all across Scotland, you know, Rangers and Celtic included, put so much into the development of these kids and then they get to a certain level and it's like, right, they need to go down south to academies up to 23s to bring me a chance of making it.
00:40:37
Speaker
ah dig just I think we're missing a trick by not having reserve football, because I know when I found out I wasn't good enough, it was playing reserve football with pros that knew what they were doing. And they talk you through games and you learn more from that than playing against somebody your own age that doesn't know know what they're doing. Do you know the the education that I would have got in a park with, a Flakmark of any or or yeah around Alexander teaching me to do, you get an education for them based on 20 years of their career. Whereas if you're playing 18s against 18s or 23s against 23s, you're learning at the same rate as a 23 year old. you know and I just think that and that's where it hinders the development of the kids.
00:41:19
Speaker
um Yeah, the football IQ really gets kind of, I suppose, the development comes a lot quicker if you're around those those elder states, shall we call them? Well, if you look at Wayne Rooney, you know, you could argue Wayne Rooney was a mad 16, but when you take that man and you put him into the Everton team and then he progresses because he's playing with better players and then he goes to the man your 18 becomes a world legend.
00:41:40
Speaker
Do you know that? he It's funny you say that because as soon as he said it, that's the one who came into my mind, like Duncan Ferguson and those kind of guys around him. you And that to me is where you get your your nourishment and your growth because you're sometimes in the dressing room, and particularly in the environment where people can identify as forks and all that, but as a you know if you're in a ah male dressing room with guys that are holding you accountable, but educating you at the same time,
00:42:08
Speaker
You shouldn't find out what kind of substance you've got to you. And it's and it's ah that substance that will take you through a career. It's really, really clear. Are you going to resent it and turn against it and throw your toys at the prom and be petulant? Or are you going to stand up to it, grow up mature and and progress and develop? you know And I think that that that comes through playing men's football at a level or women's football at that level with senior players that have been there and done it.
00:42:37
Speaker
And like I know, as you mentioned, elder statesmen, am I right in saying there was a certain Scottish international you did try to sign this year? That would be an elder statesman. Are you stirring the pot now, Coley? And is that what you're doing? No, I just I saw a story about, was it one Mr Gary Hooper? hi well He's no Scottish, yeah he's English. um but yeah so that Yes, I tried to sign him in January.
00:43:04
Speaker
And I was advised by Barn that it wasn't available. And then I tried to get him again through, a it was Neil Lennon, he was obviously a well-established manager at Champions League level. He signed Hooper a few times, he brought him to Omonia Nacosia.
00:43:22
Speaker
ah forty before Hooper came back to the UK and I tried to hold him through him and inside him but he basically retired there, he's retiring. so But I think he'd have been great because of the experience he's got and the ability he's got. um We needed something like that in the team. um Sometimes your ambition you know is you know it's maybe a step too far.
00:43:45
Speaker
you're You're a football intermediary as well, aren't you? Or at least kind of have the the qualifications or certifications required with that. Is is that kind of, I suppose, was that pre-year role with Aki's or is it kind of in conjunction? No, you're not allowed to be well sure involved with football as a conflict interest there. okay so i it was And again,
00:44:04
Speaker
The reason for that was it was a passion, so because I know what it feels like to fail and because I know how to deal with the adversity of that and I know why I failed, so I can sit down with my kid in an honest conversation with him about, this is a possibility. I don't mind having that conversation, but my motivation and my drive for doing that role was to try and get as many kids or keep as many kids in the game that I could through giving them giving them the reality of how horrible failure is. Because it the truth is that 44 year old, it still lives with me today. Do you know when it's a 26 year old lesson? you know and it's but The good thing is I've taken that education into business and the principles that they've not let me do in business because I've kind of ticked those boxes. But I think I'm well enough versed to have that conversation with people and be honest with them. and
00:45:02
Speaker
so Fair play to you. It's not blown smoke, it's a really noble thing because you know I think we've we've all seen the documentaries of you know kids that get turfed out of football, you know, 15, 16 and where things can go for them and how they can kind of quit the game. So to keep them involved or or to keep them, progress them on and help them on that journey is really impressive. Thank you. I think there's a lot of better people that have they made it.
00:45:25
Speaker
You know, and I find that, I don't know if hurtful's the right word, that's an emotion in it, but I just, I don't like seeing good people fail. Do I just like seeing it well? That's an inherent part of me for not bringing and watching the fact that my granny had to jump ship from Ireland to Scotland years ago. And I just don't like seeing good people struggle or good people fail. And I'd always put my weight behind underdog, always.
00:45:51
Speaker
And there' like there's a bit of hate about me now, so. um'm then And, Jay, say a club like Hamilton, when they're going out to look for players to recruit so and stuff, how much resources gone behind that? what what like what' What way are they going about? Are they flying out to see players? Stuff like that. And say the players in Ireland that you might identify, what sort of clubs would you be battling for them type of players? That's a correct question, to be honest.
00:46:20
Speaker
i think because of the ambition of Hamilton, there's players we wanted that signed for St. Mirren last year. Right, St. Mirren obviously qualified to Europe. Robins is doing a tremendous job there. Another Irishman, you know, he's doing a great job there. Now, the positives I take for that are that my manager wants those players. Right, so if Stephen Robins is taking those lads and got them into Europe, then my manager's got an eye for a player.
00:46:49
Speaker
Right, so our ambition's right. It's maybe just that the finances don't stack up with ambition. So to answer that question, and a fine point, there's Saint Mirren and the likes of Saint Johnson and then airdrie this year signed Ben Wilson for Cliftonville.
00:47:12
Speaker
I'd asked the sign, having his agent say, wouldn't he let us talk to him? And it turned out he went and done a deal we heard of. So I've got a great contact tonight on a guy called Jerry Cassidy. And Jerry tried to keep me in the game when I was a teenager. Is he a former state for Celtic? Yes, Jerry was head of recruitment for Celtic over there and then went to Blackburn Rovers for about 15 years. Yeah.
00:47:37
Speaker
Jerry opened a lot of doors for me, you know, when the Swindon piece didn't work out and I was kind of between clubs and and he's got a lot of contacts and let's scan the Navy and Australia and in Europe. And I've maintained the relationship with Jerry all those years because I appreciate the effort he put into helping me out. I'm trying to keep him in again but he keeps knocking me back, you know. is But do it by all needs guys like Jerry Cassidy in a game because he gets it.
00:48:03
Speaker
he's ah He's a proper scout. He it just doesn't need a line of analytics. He'll go and watch games. He understands football. He understands the physiology of the movement. He's got a great eye for a player. And I think we need people like that. So I tap into Jerry as often as I can. ah name And then when I get our boy Jonathan Patterson, who works for us, he's with our head scout in Ireland.
00:48:25
Speaker
a Jonathan will pass me over players and I'll bounce some O'Jerry as a sanity check. No that I don't No that I don't trust Jonathan's judgement, it's just that because I know O'Jerry's so well versed.
00:48:37
Speaker
in the game, in the contacts that he's got. If he rectifies something that comes to me, if he wanted to win scouts, then I know I wouldn't want a winner. join That kind of harm he likes are Ben Wilson and Benjy McGee, La Gaulle and stuff. So Dean Linus, we sent Dean. Dean was obviously over, he won the play of the year with a League Island last year. He never go over. So we're very active in that market. um But it's down to the people who are over there.
00:49:05
Speaker
you know It's got a lot of good people over there who are keeping an eye out for his Aaron Callahan. Aaron is at Bose and they carry Rangers and so on. I've got a great relationship with Aaron. So there's there's that many people that we can tap into and it will keep us right. And I say I've got a passion for that market because that's my heritage, that's my culture, that's where my family are from. you know so Again, you there's an arch at all the actual desire to see people who you relate to do well.
00:49:39
Speaker
And then say, Jerry, yourself and your role, and obviously like say clubs in in the Scottish Premier League and the English Premier League, they get to plan like so far ahead. How much of your role is day-to-day stuff coming at you that, you know, can shape and change the role the club's on?
Operations and Staffing at Hamilton
00:49:59
Speaker
This last week, it's been minute by minute, it's not been day by day, do you know what you've got?
00:50:06
Speaker
you get challenges, maybe big governance, the governing bodies and so on, you need to answer to them obviously and that impacts your day because it's is' no part of your normal curriculum. You've then got a dressing room of 24 and you've got a youth academy of 26 and then you need to go and address those concerns and and give explanations and then that just eats into your time, then you've got the perception of the club and So this last week's been a week for hell. And we're just making it worse for you. as she's ti fan you know
00:50:43
Speaker
um is i ah It's norm. Normally, i the manager works so far in advance, it's incredible. Planning preparation. preparation um The academy works so far in advance with a coach's manual. A guy called Sean Fagan is absolutely incredible. He's been with the club for four years ah working in the academy infrastructure. We brought Gordon Young in, former Covrangers assistant manager and he was with my mother once on. Youngie is now the academy director.
00:51:12
Speaker
So these guys are working the head of themselves with the coaching, and and it's all online with ethos of the club and how we want to play into and so on. Then Charlie Mulgrew, a higher Charlie's with 18th manager, the former Celtic Scotland player.
00:51:25
Speaker
So he's coming in, he's got his own ideas and he needs to maybe learn to adjust to how the academy works but put his own spin on it. um So that's a hell of a challenge he's got, given a career that he had and now in a coaching role and he's a a career again in a different way. um So that's all at the back of your mind and then you've got yeah they're normal staff, you know, you've got your office staff, your ticket staff. It's a very, very, it's a very small club in terms of the staff that manage infrastructure. I think the biggest challenge we've got is the guy who owned the stadium before and owned the club before. He had it running it was running sweet as a nut because he had a core
00:52:11
Speaker
of incredible staff who carried out several or a dozen incredible roles. And then when that transition changes and you're left with like two or three people... They'll have to take on, yeah. Shit, what do we do? Do you know, how does this work? Do you know, and you just need to ask questions and you need to sop up a lot. So I guess the answer that you've got, when it comes to the football side, touch wood, up content,
00:52:40
Speaker
with the job that I've done and what I've delivered. In terms of putting an infrastructure in place, we've now got our own medical department, we've got our own scouting department, we watch 47 games a week. Wow, Jesus. And that was, we've then got our own sports science and nutrition department. So all this stuff's in place that wasn't directly in place before. I put that in place last season, we're now enhancing it. Football was my priority.
00:53:09
Speaker
and John Rankin and Darian McKinnon are my priority. That's assistant manager and manager respectively. So when it comes to working with them, we'll sit down in October for the kind of January window to know who we're going to get. Often we'll try and have players lined up to come in at the start of January. And then when it comes to the next season, I had two lists.
00:53:33
Speaker
that was basically when they set about effective the end of April. Didn't matter if we were promoted or stayed in league one, a two-lister on it and the first list was championship because we wanted to come up. So that was how they were trying to play primary league players to the club, because that's what we wanted to get to. And if we remained in league one, it's like the players that run the periphery of the team, how do we move them on and bring other players in that want to play league one for another year.
00:53:57
Speaker
Thankfully, and you know, I didn't have to go after the the League One option, you know, but that preparation has done well in advance.
Ambitions for Promotion
00:54:03
Speaker
um And just to go back to the point about where Hamilton are as a club, had a boy Declan McKean working for me, he was at Bristol City and came in and he'd done my head of analysis and he helped me with recruitment. He moved on to work with Harts. So I started working with Declan back last June.
00:54:24
Speaker
and the the the meteoric rise in terms of his progression. Hartes wanted him and he left enjoying Hartes at the end of April. um But his commitment to the club, he stayed with us basically through March through the end end of the season because he was committed to John and seeing a task through and I think that That says a lot of about him. He's a great guy, absolutely great guy and yeah if if you'd ever come back to the club, the club would welcome him back, you know, but it says a lot about the character of him and that character is evident in John Darian, John Fagan, Jimmy Thompson who was the stadium manager, like that same character's there throughout everyone and that makes it a good place to be.
00:55:08
Speaker
um So the football bit, I'm banging top of it and we work in advance. rest The rest of it, I'm scratching my ass and she's my tail. And how how are you ah feeling for the upcoming season? I think you're a game in now. um i where Are you kind of aiming for i use aiming for top end of the league? Or is this solidify this season, build on it next year? Full court convincibles, that's all we're looking for. We're beating Saturday.
00:55:37
Speaker
well I think, you know, hi so great it's a great question and we're putting a rod in your own back. My own inherent personal belief is that we need to get out of the league. That's my own values, my own drive, my own, it's pointless being in it if I just want to stay in it. So how quickly can we get to the Premier League? you know And and that that takes boxes for me in a personal level because of my own ambition, because of my own desire.
00:56:07
Speaker
Because the question marks the fans have got over me, you know, you know maybe not a great relationship with them all if you're going in there.
Relationship with Fans
00:56:15
Speaker
So I just think that if I deliver, then I prove my worth. That's a drive and that's a burning passion I've got to go and deliver. But the reality is that there's a hell of a lot of good clubs in this league and it's probably one of the toughest leagues in Britain.
00:56:30
Speaker
um I'm sure, you know, the risk of being wrong here, I'm sure there was five points between Moreton and 5th place and Inverness Callie at the bottom. Oh, they're saying bottom. And Inverness got relegated. I'm sure it was a five-point difference. that That's an idea of how close that league is. And then when you look at the results on Saturday, I think there was only three teams won.
00:56:54
Speaker
worked
00:56:56
Speaker
There wasn't any massive doings amongst the score lines. It wasn't like a five-nilla. I actually thought a game with air was a very close game, but that would be a bit extra that we didn't. But to counter that, we demand setting off and we picked up an injury to one of our set-and-a-half set-and-others, another set-and-a-half.
00:57:15
Speaker
and And we hit the bar twice, hit the post. you know So the bri there a massive amount in And in the promotion run, you know who who are you guys seeing as your biggest threat to promotion this year? Trying to pick out a six or seven. I mean, you know that you've got Ray Throwers always been up there on the bout. Particle Thistle's the same. I think Air United with the way they've invested heavily.
00:57:39
Speaker
and got a great board of directors, a great owner, a great infrastructure there. You know it's it's admirable the way they've went about their business. They've obviously got Scott Brown as manager and he's attracted some big players we lost out in three of them that they signed. Purely because we couldn't afford to be in that race. So they've got a bit there. Falkirk have had The consistency, a really good team. Now for the second season, they've started well. They've got a good manager, they've got like a good board and a good backing. There's honestly, there's quite a living still as well. Davey Martindale was a tremendous guy. They've got the benefit of having the money if they come out with the SPL, plus having the academy monies. And they've invested really well. They've put a big team together. Davey's a great coach. Another good honest guy. So when you look at that, it's like, how'd you get out of this?
00:58:34
Speaker
You know, it's got to be tough, but I enjoy the fight. Do you know how I enjoy that? You may not be the biggest, but it doesn't even mean you can't be the best. um ah Absolutely. And in fairness, Hamilton has always been a club that has produced some fantastic talents. James McCarthy, James MacArthur, Alex Neil, Martin Canning on on the managerial end of things and now John Rankin. it's ah it like ah We're going to be rooting for yous now um from from Ireland and hopefully we'll get over ah as soon as we can. sure I sincerely mean that. You're welcome over at any time because it'd be good to show you about it and and let you see how it actually works.
00:59:14
Speaker
It'd be great to see you. It's genuine education, you know, and it's it's a club like no other. Do you know the genuine? Jesus Christ, you know, it's like...
Closing Remarks and Farewell
00:59:22
Speaker
I have to ask before we go, there's ah there's a certain Irishman who's who was a free agent at the moment. Now we have no connection to him, but there's this talk over this side of the water that that ah Aaron Connolly is in talks with with Galway. Would he be a kind of a calibre of player that you guys would be interested in or is is is is is kind of, I suppose, going back to Nate's question, is is the vision of the club players like him or homegrown or what is it? The vision of the club is ultimately success.
00:59:52
Speaker
You know, and who can take you there quicker? You know, as as Kelly mentioned earlier, we signed two Irishmen, Sean and I, and Darragh Warner, been chasing Darragh for years, and for a few years we chased them, and finally, you know, we managed to get them on board. um the only The only thing I would say is that the monetary aspect in Ireland is pretty significant. When you look at the shells and bows and St. Pat's, Derry City, you know, these these guys are paying good, good money.
01:00:20
Speaker
um Arguably it's Premier League wages over here, no Scottish Premier League wages. um yeah I know that's a speeding to boy for Derry City that's probably on twice my highest wage.
01:00:33
Speaker
Really? really you know that's see That's what's funny over here, like you know it's obviously it's quite public what players earn across the UK, but in Ireland it's fairly lock and key for the most part, at at the at the big teams anyway. And the general assumption would be that it's like, oh yeah, you're doing fine. yeah but all let me I looked at a fourth triathlon last year and I liked the model they had deal bringing.
01:00:58
Speaker
players like Famerica and the Caribbean and so on, moving them on. They looked at the boy up the big centre forward they had and it was affordable for us. And then he got his move and when I was chatting to his agent and I found out what he was going to be earning in the Irish league, I was like, I need to rule myself out before we even get started. He fitted the model of what we're looking for in terms of the goal score the minutes played.
01:01:23
Speaker
you know, he's XG and so on. And that was, he ticked all the boxes. In terms of how he looked ph physiologically, he ticked that box as well. He was an athlete, you know, and then, but then we end up, we signed Olly Shaw, a tremendous player that played in the SPL for Barnsley. We signed Nikolai Todorov, again, another big player. So we've covered that area off, but come back to the point about Aaron, he's He's a great player and and make you might, you might not go on a list they've got.
01:01:53
Speaker
and from Jay, just a quick one. like You mentioned your relationship with the fans. I'm a United fan. I know how much we expect of our directors and most of the time not not to a reasonable degree where we probably expect too much. How do you go about and managing your relationship with the fans? and And, like, realising that sometimes some of the decisions you make might not be ones that they enjoy, but ultimately behind the scenes, it's the one that makes no sense. Yeah. See, because of my fan, I find that easy to relate to, Nate. I don't... I like to think I don't have any years of graces about me as a human. I love football as a game. um I love it as a sport. And I love it as an outlet for people to get careers.
01:02:42
Speaker
um but I also understand it as a supporter. I think my my challenges with the fans were of a kind of personal nature, should the club kind of trusted me to run a kind of Facebook platform. And in hindsight, I probably wouldn't have done it, you know but it was during the period, John Rankin's first year at the club and we were getting beat most weeks of withdrawing and it was hard for fans to watch and it was hard for fans to take. And I was trying to convince them that everyone would be all right.
01:03:13
Speaker
You know, so, in hindsight, I wasn't hiding nothing. But at the same token, there was a lot of stuff that we were watching that was... There was a lot of decisions went against his goals that we scored that were on the given, that would have changed the games and would have kept his up. That would have changed the course of eight. I now think we're in a far better place in terms of infrastructure and how we're set up. And I think where we went wrong with me and the fans was that I was trying to be honest with them. I was acutely aware of how they perceived that. And then it just went terribly wrong. Do you know, because it just get kind of blew up. one of One of your staff was involved in a situation with fans online. The girl was identified and rightly or wrongly, I ahmia made some content whereby I addressed the specific fans directly. And it blew up in a horrible, horrible way that that affected my family and and my kids. and
01:04:11
Speaker
genuinely didn't affect me because it's water off a dog's back. It's the opinion of someone else that's none of my business. That's how I've kind of been brought up. So I can live with it and I can understand that everybody's got a different opinion and the opinion of you three is just as valid a mine. But I don't need to take it on board. I don't need to take it to heart. I think that all I can do is continue to be honest with the fans when I'm appraising a situation or if I'm asked a question, they'll get the truth.
01:04:39
Speaker
Well, they believe that and I was up to them. I don't have any control over that. um What I would say is that I care about them. I care about them all in an equal fashion. I'd like to think that my actions in terms of my delivery for the football club are reflective of their ambitions, you know, where they want to get to. But you're not going to keep everybody happy and and and I'm not going to try because it's it's ah if if I try to do that, then I'm going to do my job. and But I think you need to be mindful of the fact that they all contribute to the club, so they've got to see. and and You really do forget that, that you know, I suppose football, people in football in general, whether it's players, managers, directors, you kind of forget they have a family outside of the, you know, the the two goalposts and it's something I think more fans need to to so remember. and yeah ah and Yeah, funny story, my son's a Hamilton fan now. He's 13 years old. He's Hamilton daft.
01:05:38
Speaker
um I'll ask him if he wants to go to support a different team of his family he's let know and no, no, I'm coming with you. And just he just loves it. And I'm delighted with that because it's broken a cycle of this isn't on. I've got a 13 year old kid that's meeting up his own mind.
01:05:54
Speaker
with a dad, that's what I want to do. There's no bias to it. He'll make up his own mind and you know I might be asking him to go somewhere else. His uncle, his brother, his cousins, and he's like, no, no, no, I'm coming to support Hamilton. And then he's brought five or six of his mates who I'm here with by default, we've now got like 10 or 12 new supporters who actually support the club. That's that's a good thing. But the flip side is when the abuse was very kind of personal and very vocal,
01:06:22
Speaker
He's only a loving old boy. Right, so he's sitting in the bathtub. So he's hearing songs about his dad now. And I'm kind of big on deflection and manifestation. So I think how did he worse his dad? You know, you don't get a rule book or a textbook telling you how bad that is. And you've got this wee guy that's emotionally bankrupt because he's drained any energy he's got, like his dad getting abused. And I sit and sit and sit in the car. Remember Dad told you,
01:06:51
Speaker
You know, you need to manifest, aye aye. I says, well, when I was a wee boy, I wrote down that I wanted people to sing about my football stadium.
01:07:00
Speaker
you You got there in the end. I wouldn't be specific about what I wanted.
01:07:08
Speaker
So that's why you need to be specific if you want people to sing. You need to write the song you want them to sing because it didn't have F's and B's and F.C's in it, you know. But I said to him, I'm basically getting what I asked for. You know, I put it out there too.
01:07:27
Speaker
take go to God, the universe, wherever it goes, and you know and you you dream of that adulation as a football player. You on you hear folks singing your name right as a kid, and you're celebrating to imaginary crowds and all that, and then, 44-year-old, you've got a couple hundred people standing in front of you calling you a fat bastard.
01:07:46
Speaker
Jerry, Jerry, get to fuck. It's and it' there's just a bit, I think maybe, I'm maybe lucky with upbringing I've got, it wasn't really daunting for me. I could take it for what it was because I've i've obviously pissed them off. You know, inadvertently and without trying, it it's pissed them off and it's just a stick and sore plaster. It's a, you know, it's it's just there, but you can only hope by doing your job and and doing it honestly, that that bridge will, you know, that that that gap will be bridged. And they they can't complain when if balls are going in the back of the net. That's it. You know, or we still can. You know, there's other things.
01:08:25
Speaker
yeah but a But a promotion will definitely put a a plaster over that. and Jerry, I want to thank you so much. It's been enlightening, entertaining, and just fascinating overall. um Where can people find yourself in the club if they want to keep up to date? The great club website is achisafc.co.uk. And then they're on Twitter as well. Just look for the blue tick. That's the original. what's it You call that? That's the verified account. And then we've got TikTok and Instagram, they're two platforms that have been built up just now on Facebook as well. You're a gentleman, Gerry, thank you very much. Thank you very much. shi Thanks, Gerry. Thanks, Nate. Cheers, Koa. Messy. Messy. Oh, my goodness. It's all right. Back of the net.