Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
#376 Kern ballscrew replacement
4.1k Plays4 months ago
TOPICS:
- Saunders Okuma Genos spindle update
- Completely off the grid time off
- Kern ballscrew replacement
- Speedio high accuracy mode weirdness
- G68 coordinate shift
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Setting the Context
00:00:01
John S
good Good morning. Welcome to the business of a machine episode 376. My name is John Saunders.
00:00:08
johngrimsmo
And my name is John Grimsmo.
00:00:10
John S
And John and I have our first weekly chat talking about life for our businesses, the good, the bad, the new machines, the old machine, old, not old, how to say it, the owned machines that require some elbow grease.
00:00:19
johngrimsmo
A little bit of TLC, a little bit of love.
00:00:25
John S
T S yes.
00:00:27
johngrimsmo
Absolutely. I think we both got some of those stories for today.
00:00:29
John S
Yes. You want to go first?
00:00:32
johngrimsmo
Um, no, you can go first.
00:00:34
John S
Okay. So we don't know anything yet to speak of other than our Okuma Genos Spindle died. um And Like, seriously, from a comical standpoint, I was out the last week, happy to talk more about that.
Spindle Failure on Okuma Genos
00:00:52
John S
And shortly before, like four days before or something, it died. I'm like, like this is the almost comical instance.
00:00:59
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:00:59
John S
We also had another thing pop up, which I'm like, are like it you just have to laugh. And it all went it all went great. Although I will say, I spent a lot of time on the phone. It would be two weeks ago. you know, kind of blocking and tackling and, you know, fighting a little bit to get a tech out sooner.
Technician's Diagnosis and Replacement
00:01:16
John S
And I'm glad I did, because sure enough, the first thing the tech does is just, in this instance, is just basically show up on site, download logs, and then um send them to you the the necessary recipients to evaluate what to do.
00:01:32
John S
And I sort of hopped on a phone call and was like, that's fine. But regardless of what happened, we need a new spindle. So I don't want to wait hours or days. There was up to like three days to evaluate something when there's one outcome. The one outcome is there's a new spindle here, full stop.
00:01:47
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:01:48
John S
And so, um, went great. I'm glad I was able to quarterback that. And, uh, they got the new spindle in in two and a half days, but let me tell you that, that Janus spindle is a beast.
00:02:00
johngrimsmo
Really?
00:02:01
John S
Oh yeah.
Logistics of Spindle Replacement
00:02:02
John S
Uh, it is, I don't know the exact weight, but it's somewhere between 250 and 500 pounds.
00:02:08
johngrimsmo
Oh my gosh, the current spindle can be lifted by one person, barely, but...
00:02:11
John S
Yeah. Well, so we we we crashed the DT2 spindle of years ago and it crashed. We knew it. I called Haas. I was like, don't send a text. Send a new spindle, then the tech. And that spindle, I was thinking would look like like a crate and all that. The thing showed up and it was like, it was showed up in a dozen, like a bouquet of roses box. Like it was very well packaged with the, you know, that expanding foam stuff.
00:02:33
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:02:34
John S
And it was, you know, 60 pounds maybe like you could pick it up. No problem.
00:02:39
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:02:39
John S
This was just massive in there It looked I could kind of reminded me of your current like there must have been I don't know how many hydraulic electrical sensor cables ah Just all these different lines coming off of it. It was to me. It was very intimidating the text were sort of saying like this is There's a lot of little things and stuffs, but it's not a big deal.
00:02:56
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:03:01
johngrimsmo
Yeah, they're all little temperature sensors and speed sensors and drawbar closed sensors and all this stuff.
00:03:05
John S
I
00:03:09
johngrimsmo
And like the current spindle, the drawbar is in the whole spindle cartridge.
Recalibration Post-Replacement
00:03:14
johngrimsmo
So like it's everything's in there that through spindle road reunion, the the current spindle is chilled.
00:03:16
John S
Yeah.
00:03:21
johngrimsmo
um
00:03:21
John S
Yeah.
00:03:23
johngrimsmo
So yeah, lots of stuff going on.
00:03:25
John S
Um, I wasn't here when the, when the, they finished the job, but we had to huddled up and, um, actually it really didn't even need to huddle up. Caleb was going to touch a hall of tools again. They were off by like three tents, which is actually pretty crazy that you replace the whole spindle and there's that little deviation.
00:03:45
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:03:45
John S
That's, that's incredible.
00:03:46
johngrimsmo
And like a new spindle goes in, it's going to be different. Like the length is going to be different by something, right?
00:03:52
John S
Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:54
johngrimsmo
But it's like, if one one tool is three tenths, they're kind of all going to be three tenths, give or take, you know, retouching, things like that.
00:03:55
John S
what
00:04:01
johngrimsmo
When we did that, we made sure to clean every single tool, like the tip so that it retouches properly. Um,
00:04:08
John S
How did you, because you have 100 plus tools in the current?
00:04:11
johngrimsmo
So in the current, when we did the spindle replacement, we didn't retouch all the tools because there's kinematic touch-off cycles that can change all the pivot point calculations and all that. And then also after that, you do the laser touch-off calibration with a master tool.
00:04:27
John S
Yes.
00:04:28
johngrimsmo
And then after that, all the tools are good.
00:04:31
John S
Wait, what?
Concerns Over Spindle Replacement Costs
00:04:32
johngrimsmo
You don't have to retouch all the tools because the machine is now calibrated to every comps like the
00:04:36
John S
Oh, it re-comped. Okay, that's really nice. Sure.
00:04:42
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it's good.
00:04:42
John S
Okay.
00:04:43
johngrimsmo
Although one one time I did, um, I did the order wrong or something. This was early days on the current and all my tools were off by a few thou or something like that. So I did have to go and retouch everyone. So I ended up writing out macro to just call every tool one, like from one to 150 or 200 ever. If it's installed, don't call an air tool, otherwise it'll stop. And then, uh, it took like half an hour to touch off all the, but the cycle was great.
00:05:08
John S
Oh yeah, it's awesome um yeah that's not not as easy on a vertical because I don't want to necessarily deal with like face mills. so
00:05:21
johngrimsmo
Yeah, sure.
00:05:21
John S
way on a, you could, but yeah. I'm glad we only have a few tools to deal with. um in My biggest concern was going to be ah the quality. like We bought that Genos to do some pretty tight tolerance work and things like the spindle alignment, machine tram, machine level really matter. And I was worried that dropping a multi hundred pound spindle out, putting a new one in, you almost, yeah you know, it almost can't be the same going back in, but knock on wood so far.
00:05:56
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:05:56
John S
I think we've made four plates on it and it's, it's great. So I'm actually.
00:06:01
johngrimsmo
good as new yeah
00:06:02
John S
Yeah, it was not a fun experience to go through and we still don't know what why it happened. We're don't know what's going to happen on that. They are. Ultimate is just actually getting picked up now. um
Saunders' Off-Grid Fishing Trip
00:06:11
John S
My understanding is they have to do an analysis. I've had some folks reach out and I appreciate that mentioning some things that could help us if they try to claim it was us because we don't.
00:06:19
johngrimsmo
Good
00:06:22
John S
We never crashed it like never crashed it and so and it's in warranty.
00:06:23
johngrimsmo
as
00:06:26
John S
Excuse me, it's in parts warranty it might not be in labor warranty, but there's also been some.
00:06:27
johngrimsmo
new, yep.
00:06:31
John S
things I've seen that may help bolster a case. So i'm I'm hoping it's no, just to be blunt, I'm hoping it's no cash out of pocket. um But we'll see. Most important thing is we have us we have the machine running again. That's great.
00:06:43
johngrimsmo
That's great.
00:06:43
John S
Yeah.
00:06:44
johngrimsmo
That's great.
00:06:47
johngrimsmo
Excellent.
00:06:48
John S
Yeah.
00:06:48
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that's good. So you were gone for a bit. Everything go good? Shop go good?
00:06:55
John S
fish. This is the ah this is the like the real test went away for i don't even know nine days on a remote Canada fishing trip. ah totally off-grid with a major asterisk, which is that it is really legit off-grid. If anybody's listening happens to know, it's Ogoqui Lake. So it is, for us, about 20 hours almost due north from Ohio. um We stopped in Sault Ste. Marie. Then from there, you drive about nine hours up to Thunder Bay. From Thunder Bay, you drive about two, three hours north.
00:07:32
John S
to a town car called Armstrong. And at Armstrong, you get on a float plane and go 45 minutes south, excuse me, northeast to the lake. And it's a nice cabin. It has propane fridge. It has a hot water propane hot water heater. So you have hot showers. You're in a bunk bed. um So it's hardly truly roughing it like tent camping for a week. But they had a little generator. And if you fire if you fired up the generator, then they had a star link. first time i super first time I've ever used Star Lake.
00:07:59
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:08:01
John S
So it was, you know, I have mixed feelings.
00:08:01
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:08:03
John S
um not then I went with a group that's been doing this for for years, some of the guys for decades, and this was the first year that they had anything like that. Part of me is like, man, if you're gonna disconnect, disconnect, because whatever. On the flip side, we all kind of agreed, firing the generator on for 20 minutes at night. And, you know, it's nice to, It's nice to both check emails from, um first of all, I really liked it from a family and life standpoint. If we had an emergency, I knew we could communicate out and vice versa back in.
00:08:31
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:08:34
John S
But, you know, look, it was nice to be able to check in on some work stuff.
Re-entry and Benefits of Staying Connected
00:08:38
John S
I can honestly say the one thing I did that was even remotely necessary was I had told Grant to rock and roll with the Fire Trace guys to prep me for the new Willyman. And he just sent back a what they I sort of told him hey you can do this on your own if it's more than this feel free to like pause and it wasn't more than that but he still wanted me to just kind of look at I was like yep you're good um so I was actually saying it's a pretty big win I really had nothing to weigh in on um and I like you know
00:09:06
John S
The, the idea of like going offline for nine, 10 days is romantic and great. Except if you come back and it's, you've got to dig yourself out, then that's not fun, fun either.
00:09:16
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:18
John S
But, um, no, I, uh, it was pretty good from that standpoint.
00:09:21
johngrimsmo
That's amazing.
00:09:22
John S
And it was like, no,
00:09:22
johngrimsmo
So was it off? Like, did you guys have a satellite phone or like, was there some emergency? I'm just curious.
00:09:29
John S
no just the star link.
00:09:30
johngrimsmo
So like, if there was an emergency, you'd fire up the star link and you'd call out that way.
00:09:34
John S
Yeah, and like dude when the Starlink's on, you can FaceTime video.
00:09:35
johngrimsmo
Interesting.
00:09:37
John S
like it's But the Starlink takes like 15 minutes to connect because of the clouds and all that.
00:09:37
johngrimsmo
Sure. Sure.
00:09:41
johngrimsmo
Really?
00:09:43
John S
So it was not a, I mean, if you have a true emergency, you you're you know getting, it's hours to get help with that.
00:09:49
johngrimsmo
I kind of hoped it, yeah. That's fascinating. I don't think I've ever been that remote. I mean, I've done a lot of hiking and camping and stuff in my younger days before like cell phones.
00:09:59
John S
Right. right
00:10:00
johngrimsmo
And we didn't care then. It's like, yeah, I'm i'm gone for four days. like yeah But nowadays, they're like, oh, so connected.
00:10:04
John S
Right, big deal, you know?
00:10:09
John S
um But like just being candid, um there were things where I, like I was debating, do I put an out of office on? Because just like a personal thing, I hate out of offices.
00:10:17
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:10:19
John S
Because these days, like most people are so connected, and it's kind of a weird response, blah, blah, blah.
00:10:19
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:10:25
John S
But I was like, no, you should. Because if somebody's, if a vendor emails me for some reason, even though they shouldn't, and they or they know not to, but they happen to, I'd rather them know that they could Um, send it on. Actually I had somebody here checking my email anyway. So I was just debating like, how much do I want to test it versus you're like, no, just, just make, just do go easy on it.
00:10:37
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:10:41
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:10:44
John S
Make it easy for folks to get help if they need help.
00:10:46
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:10:48
John S
Beautiful, I say beautiful, like Lake Superior driving that northern border of it was beautiful. And the lakes, I mean, it's just unbelievable how much untouched wilderness and how much untouched land there is in Canada. That's just amazing.
00:11:03
johngrimsmo
Yeah, Ontario, especially it's, it's massive and it just keeps going and nobody lives up there. Like, like 90% of Ontario of Canada's population is on the border.
00:11:13
John S
Well, that's what we were talking about too.
00:11:14
johngrimsmo
It's like within 50 kilometers of the border or something like that.
00:11:17
John S
We had 20 hours each way in the car to to shoot the breeze.
00:11:21
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:11:21
John S
And
Vibration Issue in Kern Machine
00:11:22
John S
I think i think it's Canada is like 1% smaller than Russia. um So it's barely the second largest country in the world.
00:11:30
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:11:31
John S
And it has, I think it's 38 million people, which is a 10th of the population of the US.
00:11:34
johngrimsmo
Something like that. Yeah. Great.
00:11:38
John S
And yeah, to your point, it's like Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, like everything's on the border.
00:11:42
johngrimsmo
Yeah. who
00:11:46
John S
Have you ever been up in Northern Ontario?
00:11:49
johngrimsmo
I've never been to what we would call Northern Ontario. No. And, uh, Like I've driven up around the lakes, like where you guys initially drove, because I drove across the country a couple of times, but never been further than that.
00:11:58
John S
Okay.
00:12:02
johngrimsmo
Nothing's drawn me, you know, into the middle of nowhere.
00:12:03
John S
Okay.
00:12:05
John S
Yeah, I mean, Thunder Bay is like a little city. We actually went north about 20 minutes before we got to Thunder Bay.
00:12:13
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:12:13
John S
So we actually got all of our groceries in Sault Ste. Marie, which was still after Sault Ste. Marie, we drove nine hours. And I don't believe we passed a town that would have an actual grocery store, like the gas stations and little like general stores and little mini markets for sure. But like an actual proper grocery store was, was far away. It's crazy.
00:12:38
johngrimsmo
Yeah, you got to plan your gas stops, I remember.
00:12:40
John S
Yeah.
00:12:41
johngrimsmo
Like, like Meg and I drove from like Toronto to Vancouver in 2005. So I think we had a cell phone.
00:12:49
John S
Okay.
00:12:50
johngrimsmo
um And I remember we were driving up near that area, at Thunder Bay Area, middle of nowhere, and we start smelling fuel. in my old Volvo 240.
00:12:59
John S
Oh, my gosh.
00:13:00
johngrimsmo
And, and I'm like, I pulled over the fuel manifold had lifted off. So I had to zip tie it down like a weld broke or something.
00:13:05
John S
Oh, my gosh.
00:13:08
johngrimsmo
So I had to zip tie it back down and finish the rest of the trip.
00:13:12
John S
Yeah, that's crazy.
00:13:12
johngrimsmo
To figure it out.
00:13:15
John S
Yeah. We saw a bear. Uh, somebody else, our group saw a moose on the lake. We saw a bear on the road is just fun.
00:13:21
johngrimsmo
That's cool, man. Good memories.
00:13:23
John S
Yeah. Um, what was I gonna say? Not Hudson Bay. What's is it? Yeah. Hudson Bay is the big water bay, but like, no. So does anybody ever go up there?
00:13:33
johngrimsmo
I don't know.
00:13:34
John S
Okay.
00:13:35
johngrimsmo
I know like Meg's brother is a paleontologist and he'll go on digs, dinosaur digs up there.
00:13:41
John S
Okay.
00:13:42
johngrimsmo
um But like people go camping if they want to get in the middle of nowhere, but that's, that's even, that's North Hudson Bay.
00:13:50
John S
Yeah, it's crazy.
00:13:51
johngrimsmo
Cool.
00:13:54
John S
But yeah, quite fun.
00:13:55
johngrimsmo
It's good.
00:13:57
John S
That's what you've been up to.
00:13:59
johngrimsmo
um Yeah, been a busy week. um
00:14:04
johngrimsmo
Let's see. Do you want Kern or Speedyo update first?
00:14:10
John S
I guess I'll say current because I saw the Instagram and so I'm quite curious.
00:14:16
johngrimsmo
Yeah, so very interesting ah set of scenarios there. We started to notice some vibration in one of our parts and in the RAS candle in a specific spot in the handle, and it would vibrate on the chamfer, the profile, and the back chamfer. in the same section of the part. So three different tools, three different toolpaths, but all in the same section. So we're like, well, that's not a tool being worn out or loose or something. That's like machine something. So we started to see this vibration kind of consistently, super subtle, but we like we can tell.
00:14:50
johngrimsmo
um It tumbles away, so it's not critical. But I'm like, something something's wrong there. So then on the current, they have a built-in oscilloscope for every axis, which is super cool.
00:14:57
John S
Okay. One minute. Yes.
00:15:02
johngrimsmo
And you basically, you turn it on, you start blogging and there's all different settings, whatever whatever you want to, it's hard to actually interpret what it's doing or what it, what do you want it to do. So there's a setting called SDIF that I don't know what it does, but basically it can measure the X axis Y or Z. And as you jog it manually, it starts plotting the vibration. and I don't know where this vibration sensor is, if it's electrical in the motor, wirings or if there's physical like vibration sensors stuck to the motor. I don't know um care. But it basically senses vibration. And as you traverse along, say if you go in Y or in Z, it's like totally smooth. And then we go in X, and then there's a certain spot in the machine where it would start to vibrate like noticeably.
00:15:46
johngrimsmo
And, uh, so we're like talking to Kern, we're like, okay, maybe I need another ball screw. We did put a ball screw in that axis, X axis, um, uh, 12 months ago.
00:15:56
John S
Wait, really?
00:15:57
johngrimsmo
And yeah, when I first been to win in, um, yeah.
00:16:00
John S
Oh, you did do that. I say i don't like totally remember this, but maybe that's...
00:16:04
johngrimsmo
Yeah, we we put in the end of that video. um So we noticed, or Tina noticed when she was here, a little bit of vibration. She's like, ah, I brought an extra ball screw. It's not that expensive. Like, you want me to put it in? Yeah, sure. And then totally cleaned it up. um And then the oscilloscope showed smooth after that. and We've been running it for a lot for the past year. And then, so we decided, OK, another ball screw. They're not that expensive. um Don't know why it needs it after just 12 months. Should last a lot longer than that, but whatever. um So we got the ball screw in and the ball screw itself ah isn't that expensive, but the labor and transport and to get somebody up to Canada for three days was like many thousands of dollars.
00:16:47
John S
Oh yeah.
00:16:48
johngrimsmo
And I'm like, I'm confident we can install this between me and Angelo. We've built a lot of cars together, not together, but Separately and I think we can figure this out and weve we've had our hands in the curtain before we watched Tina do the first one I have a lot of it on video like we can figure this out and we did um So we got the ball screw in Except as the, like, it all happened yesterday and Angelo and Jeff, Jeff were doing it by the time I got in. And I was like, go for it. I'm just going to fly on the wall and watch this happen, which is cool. Like I thought I was going to have to get in there, but they did it all themselves, which is great. So one of the things is you pre-lube the ball screw and you rotate the ball nut, like all the way across it, just to evenly lube it. And they noticed a tight spot in this brand new ball screw.
00:17:34
johngrimsmo
where the ball nut was like, eh, something's wrong here. So we put it under the Zeiss microscope and there was a, what looked like a nick in the outside peak of one of the the things, the screw thread, right?
00:17:47
John S
interesting
00:17:49
johngrimsmo
And it's, the closer I looked at it, like it looks like a, like a scrape. um But once I look closer, it's actually a dent ever so slight, very small. um And I could see with shadows and stuff, I could see the material under the dent swedging out, like microscopically, um but to the point where the ball is actually you know causing some resistance, all the balls in the ball screw.
00:18:07
John S
Interesting. Yeah,
00:18:12
John S
me sure.
00:18:15
johngrimsmo
So I talked to Kern and they're like, don't run
Replacing the Ball Screw
00:18:18
johngrimsmo
it. like It's just going to destroy itself. you know it It might wear down, but that's just going to cause wear somewhere else and like, okay, we'll send you another one, no problem.
00:18:26
John S
Wow Wow
00:18:27
johngrimsmo
mean Meanwhile, Angela was like, let's just put the old one back in. And then we can run a full cycle tonight. We'll get 12 hours of runtime. It'll be great. So they did. And um put the old one back in. Kern gave us really good operating instructions to do it, torque values, and and you know order of of our operations. And there's a lubrication line that's really finicky to get through because it snakes under all the axis and everything. but Jeff and Angelo totally did that. I was just kind of observing and doing other work at the same time.
00:18:58
johngrimsmo
It was fantastic. It was challenging for them. They said, it's not hard, but it's tedious and my hands hurt.
00:19:06
John S
Yeah.
00:19:07
johngrimsmo
And so it's like annoying, um but it wasn't like the most difficult thing they've ever done, which is, it's great. And so they put the old one in and if you ever assembled a ball screw stack, So when I built my first CNC or converted my first CNC machines, I had to like machine my own ball screw ends with all the threads in them and everything. um So I know a little bit about Angular contact bearings and end blocks and things like that. um So as they put it together and they were good and and I started up the machine and I started doing the calibrations, as I jog the X axis, it starts vibrating horrifically.
00:19:46
johngrimsmo
like
00:19:46
John S
Yeah.
00:19:47
johngrimsmo
Like a lot. Like you touch the jog button and it moves a quarter of an inch and they take your hand off the button and it's still vibrating. We're like, what the heck?
00:19:56
John S
Okay.
00:19:57
johngrimsmo
So we go through it, we go through it, we figure it out, um end up taking the motor back off. And for somehow, they didn't tighten the angular contact bearing at the end of the ball screw a properly, tight enough, whatever. So there was actual play.
00:20:10
John S
Yeah.
00:20:10
johngrimsmo
Like you could grab the axis and push it forward and back an eighth of an inch. Like, OK, no problem. um Tighten that up properly.
00:20:20
johngrimsmo
And then we've got it back together and the machine's perfect.
00:20:27
John S
Wait, you don't, you're not even, are you serious?
00:20:28
johngrimsmo
The old, the old ball screw is perfect. Perfectly smooth. Yeah.
00:20:35
John S
Oh my gosh.
00:20:36
johngrimsmo
I don't know. We're like, because the the vibration was in a certain spot in the ball screw, like a pretty wide range, maybe over four or five inches of travel.
00:20:44
John S
Okay.
00:20:45
johngrimsmo
Um, we're like, maybe the ball screws warped or something. I don't know. Um,
00:20:51
John S
Was it just debris? Like, did you clean the old one?
00:20:54
johngrimsmo
I know. Well, I don't know. Actually, I don't know if they did clean it and put it back in. Um, but.
Solving the Vibration Issue
00:21:02
johngrimsmo
My best guess, and I'll see what Kern has to say, but is that reseeding all of the mounts and realigning everything, and they suggested you move the axis to the far end when you're tightening the far end counterbearing, and you move the axis to the close end when you're tightening the motor side counterbearing, so that you're not creating undue stress and and bending.
00:21:09
John S
Mm-hmm. Ah, interesting.
00:21:22
John S
you
00:21:24
johngrimsmo
Um, alignment issues. So the guys did that and it was great. And they basically did it, you know, as well as they can do for their first or now second install of the ball screw the second in a row.
00:21:34
John S
Yeah, right, right.
00:21:37
johngrimsmo
Um, but dude, it is smooth, like glass smooth. You see it on the oscilloscope and it's like flat, just like Y and Z were, and we're like, okay.
00:21:42
John S
Yeah.
00:21:45
johngrimsmo
So I'm texting current. I'm like, maybe I don't need one. Like, give me a couple of days. I'll keep running the oscilloscope every day and just see like, if it gets worse or whatever. I'll keep you informed. But for now, don't send me another ball screw, because if I don't have to spend thousands of dollars, I don't need to, right? I think we're good. um So I don't know what the lesson is there, but it works.
00:22:08
John S
The lesson is, I'm jealous that you have an oscilloscope, because that's like the coolest.
00:22:12
johngrimsmo
It is the coolest thing.
00:22:13
John S
Oh, yeah.
00:22:14
johngrimsmo
And actually, it got it got me wondering. And if anybody wants to email me this, it's my name at gmail dot.com. um it, can you just make an oscilloscope with a vibration sensor and slap it to an axis and just jog the axis and and read the vibrate? Like, is that easy? Sounds easy. I've never built an oscilloscope.
00:22:34
John S
I'm going to go with no, we buy at $100 oscilloscope.
00:22:37
johngrimsmo
Well, I know, I know oscilloscopes are usually for electricity to measure phases of what I don't actually know how they work. Um, but it seems like on the current it's vibration specific.
00:22:48
John S
Well, the the vibration sensor is some sort of ah A to D, like analog to digital signal that mod modulates or gives you the frequency and the modulation of a power signal.
00:22:55
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:22:59
John S
So yeah, that's not crazy. I just don't know. I don't know, it's a full stop. I remember Marv showing us or me, I think we were there, whatever, some of those feature sets and that's,
00:23:05
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:23:15
John S
didn't strike me as low hanging fruit to like implement that. like it was Whether it was comparing with the motor and sensors or, I don't know, it was very cool.
Diagnostic Tools and Heidenhain Codes
00:23:24
johngrimsmo
Actually, now that you mentioned it, I remember Marv telling me later, I don't remember, but he will use the oscilloscope during a finishing cut to know his perfect RPM to run this exact tool setup.
00:23:40
John S
Yeah.
00:23:43
johngrimsmo
Don't take the tool out. At this RPM, it makes the least vibration at 19,750 RPM.
00:23:46
John S
Yep. Yep.
00:23:50
johngrimsmo
Not at 18,000.
00:23:54
johngrimsmo
And I've never actually spent the time to to do that. um I think you can oscilloscope to spindle RPM too. You must be able to. So I should try that. But yeah, he was like if you want he's the master of surface finishes. He has his PhD in surface finish, whatever you call it. um And that's good advice. That's like really cool.
00:24:14
John S
Yeah, right. Well, kudos to you guys. That's an impressive. I could see not only the mechanical side of things being challenging, but on the, like ah but I believe on the Okuma side, and certainly on the Haas side, you need a service key, like an unlock key to access system parameters to to do stuff, which I understand.
00:24:32
johngrimsmo
o like ah Like a number.
00:24:36
John S
Yeah, it's like, on the Haas to the USB key,
00:24:37
johngrimsmo
It's not a key like a door key, but it's... Really?
00:24:42
John S
ah hu And you put it in and you access the service level.
00:24:43
johngrimsmo
No.
00:24:45
John S
There's different levels of service keys to allow you to do different things.
00:24:47
johngrimsmo
Okay. On Heidenhein, it's just a six-digit number that I have all of them written down somewhere.
00:24:51
John S
Okay.
00:24:54
John S
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:54
johngrimsmo
I'm not supposed to.
00:24:56
John S
as Yeah, but then, you know, there's a lot to do of like, like it was a week, years ago we crashed, I not we i crashed our ST20Y and we knew how to realign the turret or learn then.
Realigning Machine Parameters
00:25:08
John S
And once you do all that, that's fine, except you have to go into a service key level parameters to kind of reestablish your Y home and where things are. And same thing like the X, like you just don't put the screw back in and home it. Like I'm guessing that you have to, it must be some sort of a software procedure.
00:25:26
johngrimsmo
That's what I was wondering actually on the on the current because I know it's got glass scales. So I asked specifically, I'm like, does the current care that I'm jogging the axis side to side with no ball screw in place?
00:25:39
John S
You shouldn't.
00:25:39
johngrimsmo
And it's losing position and she goes, nope, the glass scales account for that. But in a, in a tormac, say, if you take the motor off and move the axis and put the motor back on, like you are in the wrong position.
00:25:43
John S
Got it. Yes.
00:25:50
John S
For sure.
00:25:50
johngrimsmo
but I guess the homing procedure will do that.
00:25:53
John S
well Well, be careful, because my basic understanding of a lot of homing procedures is that it will rotate to what it thinks is the correct revolution, which is like a course adjustment, because each revolution is making a $50,000 or $100,000, relatively big number.
00:26:05
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:26:11
John S
And then once it's in the correct resolution or the correct number of rotations, it will then use the encoder value to find the specific angular clocking to repeat.
00:26:19
johngrimsmo
who
00:26:19
John S
But that obviously goes away if you've rotated the ball screw.
Machine Recalibration Process
00:26:23
johngrimsmo
Yes, ah and then a lot of my experience with motors and ball screws is tarmac in my grizzly days with no encoders, no feedback, no nothing, just a straight stepper motor and physical limit switches. So it it goes till it sees the limit switch and that's home.
00:26:36
John S
Yeah. Right.
00:26:38
johngrimsmo
um That was easier, but yeah, you're right.
00:26:39
John S
Right.
00:26:41
johngrimsmo
so Yeah, when we had the ball screw out, I was like pushing the axis back and forth and I'm like, this moves pretty smooth. Like, yeah, this feels great.
00:26:47
John S
yeah that That's really cool.
00:26:50
johngrimsmo
Cause they keep posting those HD videos of like, look how smooth it is. I can push it with one finger. I'm like, I can do that with mine too. But yeah, HD is more impressive. I get it again.
00:26:59
John S
Yeah.
00:26:59
johngrimsmo
Um, But yeah, so I mean, we put it back together in a completely different position.
Running Kinematic Procedures
00:27:05
johngrimsmo
Once you turn on the machine, there's an error message that pops up and yells at you and goes, I was at 194 millimeters and now I'm at 237. Are you okay with that?
00:27:15
John S
Interesting.
00:27:17
johngrimsmo
And I took a picture just in case and then I pushed, yes, I'm okay with that and it it's fine. Didn't care.
00:27:22
John S
Wait, that's all you had to do?
00:27:23
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:27:24
John S
Oh, that's amazing, John.
00:27:25
johngrimsmo
And then there is a function called pass over reference, which is a homing procedure. So it goes kind of to X, X zero, Y zero, like center of table, but not exactly. So I wonder if the glass scales do have some sort of a limit switch inside or a um home switch or like ah a reference position or something.
00:27:41
John S
man
00:27:42
johngrimsmo
Cause it was looking for that. And then I ran the kinematic procedure with, with the tooling ball and the probe and all these five axis moves and everything takes about three, five minutes.
Troubleshooting Calibration Issues
00:27:53
johngrimsmo
And the X was off by four thou, give or take, 11 microns, um which I've bumped the machine before and it's been off more than that.
00:27:56
John S
Hmm, sure.
00:28:01
johngrimsmo
Like, it's fine. Kind of neat.
00:28:05
John S
Was the where on the x-axis centered over the an area where you do a lot of work?
00:28:11
johngrimsmo
I wondered that and I actually put the machine in that position and I i overlaid like in editing on my phone, whatever, I overlaid a, um
00:28:17
John S
Mm-hmm.
00:28:21
johngrimsmo
the oscilloscope over the physical machine like view. So as I'm looking at a pallet laid over B90.
00:28:25
John S
Yeah.
00:28:29
johngrimsmo
And no, it's it's not like where we do most of the work. So that was kind of interesting.
00:28:35
John S
My guess, just a guess, is grinding dust.
00:28:37
johngrimsmo
What did it get back there?
00:28:43
johngrimsmo
Well, then the ball screw would be bad, but it's not bad. It's good.
00:28:49
John S
Touche, yeah, no fair.
00:28:49
johngrimsmo
Sorry.
00:28:50
John S
It's fair. Yeah, I don't know then.
00:28:52
johngrimsmo
I don't know, but reseeding all the mounts, re-putting everything back in, same old bearings and everything, although they're 12 months old, not that old. It works great, works great.
00:29:02
John S
Yeah, because even running as much as you do 150 hours a week, you wouldn't think a year would wear a screw out.
00:29:02
johngrimsmo
so
Grinding Anomalies and Hypothesis
00:29:08
johngrimsmo
Yeah, no.
00:29:11
johngrimsmo
We'll keep an eye on it, but I'm great.
00:29:11
John S
Interesting. Well, great.
00:29:14
johngrimsmo
like It's all good. One of those things, I wish I had a few more answers, but do I really care? So um I'm, I'm going to download my brain right now and and write these notes down in GURP as like, you know, if this happens again, here's what happened last time.
00:29:19
John S
yeah Yeah, right.
00:29:28
johngrimsmo
Here's all the pictures I took, um, stored here so that like, maybe this happens two years from now and I'm not around at that time and somebody can look it up, you know?
00:29:38
John S
Right.
00:29:38
johngrimsmo
So that'll be helpful. Um, but yeah, all good there.
00:29:43
John S
So then what a sort what was speedio?
00:29:44
johngrimsmo
the So this video right now we're doing all of our Rask blade grinding. on this video, um which is going great.
00:29:51
John S
Yes.
00:29:53
johngrimsmo
And all of a sudden, one morning, the guys come in, and they start grinding blades, and they have maybe 50 or 100 little dips in the blade in a very specific pattern. As it's grinding, it's just putting all these dots in the blade. And then they ground another blade, and the dots are in the exact same spot. And then they move it to the other side of the fixture. so on I guess it doesn't matter.
Tool Breakage Detection and Blade Grinding
00:30:21
johngrimsmo
So over two inches or whatever and grind the opposite side of the blade. And the pattern is mirror image of what the first side is.
00:30:29
John S
But in ah but went in a different machine X location.
00:30:32
johngrimsmo
Yes, a different Y location, I guess.
00:30:33
John S
Okay. Okay. Sure.
00:30:35
johngrimsmo
um So they're all confused.
00:30:40
John S
Sure.
00:30:40
johngrimsmo
And a lot of the guys get a couple hours in before I get in. So they They're like, full stop. Wait till John gets in. Then they show me. And I'm like, I don't know. This is this is wild. And when you feel the dots, they feel high. They feel proud. um So you're like, oh, we can stone those down, no problem. But then under the microscope, you can tell they're actually deep. So you can't just stone them away. You can't just fix them.
00:31:03
John S
Right.
00:31:03
johngrimsmo
um So that took me almost a day to figure out what the problem was. And Lawrence actually made the suggestion, because I mentioned it in our WhatsApp group. and I said, the only thing I changed last night before the guys came in and ran this is I was playing with tool breakage detection settings, which hasn't fully worked for me yet. Um, so
Laser Tool Touch-offs and Probing Accuracy
00:31:24
johngrimsmo
I was playing with it. I think I got it to work and then I put it all back to normal and said, I texted the guys. I was like, I played with it, but it should be fine. Good to go. And I think there's something about when you do probing or laser tool touch offs, you have to turn off the high accuracy setting on a speedio.
00:31:41
John S
Oh, that's the chip you bought.
00:31:41
johngrimsmo
And then. Yeah, like to to nothing and then do your probing and then turn it back on or back to default or whatever afterwards.
00:31:44
John S
Okay.
00:31:51
johngrimsmo
I know that's a thing for probing.
00:31:51
John S
Interesting.
00:31:52
johngrimsmo
I don't know if that's the thing for lasering specifically, but I think that's the issue somehow. And then my, my machining program didn't properly turn it back on or something like that.
00:32:03
John S
Sure.
Toolpath Settings and Grinding Anomalies
00:32:04
John S
It's a post issue, right?
00:32:05
johngrimsmo
Well, yeah, ish. And so I spent some time looking through all the laser macros line by line, looking for the the line that turns off the high accuracy mode. And I couldn't find it anywhere. So that theory is...
00:32:17
John S
Oh.
00:32:20
johngrimsmo
sensible, but I couldn't prove it, which bugs me. um And then the toolpath I'm using for grinding is a geodesic toolpath where I want it to grind like chop grinding. I want it to go down, over, up, over, down, over, up, like zigzagging over fourth hour every time.
00:32:33
John S
Okay.
00:32:35
johngrimsmo
um And i I went into diffusion and I selected ah show points for this toolpath. And what do you know, every single point is in exactly where every single divot was. in this blade, like to the T. And this is really weird shape.
00:32:51
John S
But are those are there also other points that weren't dividend?
00:32:55
johngrimsmo
Nope.
00:32:56
John S
Oh, weird.
00:32:56
johngrimsmo
It did at every single point. So in what in my head, it micro-dwelled at every dot as it goes to the next line.
00:32:59
John S
Did you?
00:33:02
John S
Sure, sure.
00:33:04
johngrimsmo
Whereas when the smoothing is turned on properly, it kind of just wipes it away, like the machine's moving up.
00:33:08
John S
When you say smoothing, you mean machine smoothing, not? Well, no, so that's interesting because, accuracy to me would mean that the machine is more focused on hitting those points when in reality you actually want the exact opposite. You want to sacrifice accuracy and in an exchange for smoothness.
00:33:28
johngrimsmo
And i was I've been using for a year now the highest accuracy setting on this video. So I don't know there. So I did two things. Either I could keep digging and find out why the high accuracy turned off
Toolpath Smoothing Adjustments
00:33:45
johngrimsmo
and try to try to fully understand that, which I didn't have time to do or couldn't figure out.
00:33:45
John S
yeah
00:33:51
johngrimsmo
um Or I go back in diffusion and I mess with the geodesic toolpath until all those points are gone.
00:33:52
John S
Yeah.
00:33:57
johngrimsmo
And that is messing with the tolerance and the smoothing.
00:34:00
John S
Yeah.
00:34:00
johngrimsmo
um I took the smoothing from two inches to four inches, which is a lot of smoothing.
00:34:06
John S
Wait, what?
00:34:07
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:34:08
John S
If there's a single point across a two inch, you consolidate it?
00:34:08
johngrimsmo
and And that did it.
00:34:11
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:34:12
John S
That doesn't make sense. What's your what's your threshold though?
00:34:13
johngrimsmo
So I don't know which threshold.
00:34:17
John S
But your smoothing, sending, and fusing is normally like 2,000.
00:34:20
johngrimsmo
Yeah. And it was a two inches and I made it at four inches and that helped. And then my tolerance was my tolerance was in the 10th, like three 10ths or maybe even less.
00:34:24
John S
That's weird.
00:34:30
johngrimsmo
And I made it.
00:34:34
johngrimsmo
I think it was in the millionths um to get what worked. And then I made it two tenths or four tenths or something like that, but bigger than I normally run.
00:34:41
John S
Bigger.
00:34:43
johngrimsmo
And that got rid of all the points. It just infusion and smooth it out to the line, over line, over line.
00:34:45
John S
Great.
00:34:49
johngrimsmo
So I posted that. And even if the problem continues to occur, there's no points in the
Enhancing Simulation Settings in Fusion
00:34:54
johngrimsmo
middle of the blade. So it won't care.
00:34:56
John S
Have you run one yet?
00:34:57
johngrimsmo
Yep. Yep.
00:34:58
John S
Oh, and it's good.
00:34:58
johngrimsmo
So I, I left a little, uh, sticky note for the guys in the morning. I'm like, fixed it. I'll tell you later, good to go run, like good to go.
00:35:05
John S
Yeah.
00:35:05
johngrimsmo
And they're like, what did you change? Um, so yeah, it's kind of a combination of both things, but got that working great. So, I mean, as it happens, I know the current needed a ball screw at that time on the same day.
00:35:16
John S
Oh, right.
00:35:17
johngrimsmo
And I'm like, Oh, it's the ball screw. Like have we worn out the ball screw already? That doesn't make sense. So I'm sitting there calibrating the, the speedio. I put the test bar in the spindle, which was its whole own journey. um Because the way the tool changer works you can't just put a button and put the tool in the spindle and You you have to physically jog up the spindle because it's all mechanical in this video The drawbar is mechanical on Z position.
00:35:32
John S
Yeah. Yes, right.
00:35:40
johngrimsmo
So as you jog up the spindle the drawbar slowly opens and
00:35:43
John S
We should drop a tool.
00:35:45
johngrimsmo
Yeah. And you you have to do it with the door open and you have to hit the release button and you have to do all these crazy settings to like do it. And I was by myself, so I didn't have a third hand to do it. It's like using my pinky and my elbow and holding the jog button. And it was pretty messy, but I got it. And the spindle results, uh, run out at the top of the eight inch drawbar or, um, thingy was 25 millionths run out at the bottom of the eight inch test bar was three tenths, which is fantastic.
00:36:15
John S
okay
00:36:15
johngrimsmo
um Like a long super long tool. It's similar on the current kind of thing um Taper front and side on that long bra bar was a tenth and two tenths. So I'm like Stoked at the squareness of the machine. It's good. It's tight So it was just the high accuracy settings got changed Yeah, super weird
00:36:31
John S
Okay. Weird. Didn't, yeah. um The only thing that popped in my head, we never used geodesic, but we had some distribution of points issue long
Setbacks and Progress on Knife Project
00:36:45
John S
time ago and somebody turned me on to, there are additional smoothing settings in Fusion.
00:36:51
johngrimsmo
In which machine? In Fusion.
00:36:54
John S
So if you right click on an operation and do compare and edit, type in smoothing and you'll see there's at least one more, I believe it's called triangulation of some kind.
00:36:56
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:37:01
johngrimsmo
<unk> Interesting.
00:37:02
John S
So PSA.
00:37:05
johngrimsmo
Maybe they don't want you to see it.
00:37:08
John S
I think it's just like, I remember having a conversation with somebody like on the cam cab about when they started integrating module works in and it's kind of a dirty little secret that like a lot of cam packages out there, master cam, I think Gibbs, whatever, use module works and they just kind of repackage the kernel into their own flavor but a lot of that means how do you, you have 300 settings for a toolpath, how do you,
00:37:26
johngrimsmo
Mm.
00:37:35
John S
give the user the 30 to make it, frankly, a bit simpler, but maybe not as powerful.
00:37:39
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:37:40
John S
and And I'm guessing that's kind of the same ethos of like, hey, there's a setting here. We want the users to get to it, but 9,990 people don't need to see this setting.
00:37:47
johngrimsmo
Yep, yep. Yeah, that compare and edit shows some weird stuff.
00:37:52
John S
It's good to look through.
00:37:53
johngrimsmo
you're like it's I use it all the time, especially if I'm changing a toolpath and I want other ones to be similar, then I'll use it for that, whether it's feeds and feeds or whatever.
00:37:59
John S
Right.
00:38:03
johngrimsmo
um
00:38:03
John S
Yeah.
00:38:05
johngrimsmo
But yeah, so everything's back to good right now.
00:38:08
John S
This is great.
00:38:08
johngrimsmo
um It's great. like Kind of beating myself up because progress on the Fjell knife has slowed to a crawl based on this and other problems and my distractedness and, you know, I was, my wife was teasing me this morning.
00:38:17
John S
Yeah.
00:38:25
johngrimsmo
She's like, bro, you're at 95% done on this project. Like don't stop now.
00:38:30
John S
Oh, I don't think so.
00:38:30
johngrimsmo
This is classic Grimsmo. I've done this, but I've done this for 20 years. You get 95% and I move on to something else. Obviously it's going to finish, but Yeah.
00:38:41
John S
Feels different than, this is gonna happen, John.
00:38:43
johngrimsmo
Oh, of course.
00:38:43
John S
Yeah.
00:38:44
johngrimsmo
100%. But is it going to happen this week or is it going to happen this month? Or is it going to happen, you know, like?
00:38:49
John S
Yeah, blade show is good for you, right? Like it pushed you.
00:38:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it was totally and i've I've taken my foot off the gas since then, um which has been nice. Like I've had more time with the kids and more relaxing and watch more Netflix than I did before Blade Show. So it's been nice. But like I said, kind of beat myself up. and like Come on, let's get back to it. Let's finish this up. Oh, close.
00:39:10
John S
You're just messing with the clip.
00:39:12
johngrimsmo
ah The clip and I right physically changed the handle just ever so slightly, but moving the stop pin by 5,000 caused a
Meeting High Customer Demand
00:39:21
johngrimsmo
ton of changes everywhere else in the blade and everything.
00:39:21
John S
Oh.
00:39:27
johngrimsmo
So I've done all the changes, geometrically it should be good, which ruined all of the cam and I need to go through and reselect all my tool paths. So that's my today task is reselect all the tool paths for the handle and for the blade, make a handle blade if I have time, and then the clip will be tomorrow ish.
00:39:45
John S
Sweet.
00:39:45
johngrimsmo
Yeah. So I'm getting excited. So that's good.
00:39:47
John S
Yeah, you you get there.
00:39:49
johngrimsmo
Yep. And I've been carrying the knife. It's been fantastic. Eric's been carrying his and he's like, I thought it was too small. Now I'm totally in love with it.
00:39:55
John S
Right.
00:39:56
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:39:57
John S
No, I agree. I, uh, I like the smaller size of the field a lot.
00:40:03
johngrimsmo
Yeah. And it's like baby compared to the Norseman. The Norseman feels big now, like, but you just get so used to it. So yeah, it's good.
00:40:12
John S
That's cool.
00:40:12
johngrimsmo
We've got customers, uh, bugging us every day, how to get one, which is fantastic.
00:40:13
John S
Good.
00:40:17
johngrimsmo
But I feel like I don't have an answer yet, but we're going to figure
Using G68 Coordinate Rotation in Haas Machines
00:40:21
johngrimsmo
it out.
00:40:21
John S
good
00:40:23
johngrimsmo
Yeah. So now that you're back, what's, uh, what's on your shortlist?
00:40:28
John S
The big thing we tackled and shout out to Seth at Autodesk for helping out um was using, what is it called, coordinate shift, ah the G68 world where you align a part, you know, the Haas demo video of Terry Berry sort of shows if your vise isn't on your table squarely, you can use this.
00:40:45
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:40:49
John S
Like, you should put your vises on your table squarely or buy a fixture plate and you don't have to cram them because you have a fixture plate.
00:40:54
johngrimsmo
and Nice.
00:40:55
John S
But, um no, it's a very probing um certain parts where we need to have an op two aligned is great. And I say that meaning we redone fixtures over the years where we've gotten away from that because probing is ultimately slow and can be error prone. um But it's still a great feature for certain things. So we do use it on our 12 by eight pallets because we do those in two ops, which is a pretty cool feat because we machine ah counterbores on the bottom of the part. Well, sorry. There are counterbores on the top of the part where the customer is using it. that's We machine the backside first, but we hit those counterbores with the custom to A-B tool, Woodruff cutter, so that way when we go to Op2, we can use the counterbores that the customer uses
00:41:42
John S
when therere when they own the product, we can use those to hold the product in situ for op two and do all the work, which is great.
00:41:47
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:41:49
John S
And that's one reason why we want to do the G68 alignment so that the features are all square, interior features are all square and in accurate relative to the outside profile. The flaw is Fusion doesn't let you post multiple G68s. on any of the Haas posts. I've never tried it outside of the Haas posts, but I'm almost certain it won't, because frankly, the Haas is probably the most mature posts. And it is a weird situation, because the way Haas works, and I believe most machine tools work, is when you G68 something, it stores a value produces an angular value in one variable in the control. I think it's 194 on a Haas.
00:42:38
John S
So if you've got your, for the sake of the example, let's say you drop your up to 12 by Saunders fixture pout down there and it's 1.3 degrees out of alignment, it pops it's put pops a.3 value into that 194 field. And now all the work you do, so long as you apply a G68 coordinate rotation is accurate. Well, how do you handle that if you have two parts on the table at the same time? um Obviously, well, so the,
00:43:03
johngrimsmo
That you want to machine at the same time, like to a one pop pop.
00:43:07
John S
So that's the question, right? Do you want to have, do you want to share, like when you go into pattern and infusion, do you want to minimize tool changes?
00:43:08
johngrimsmo
Yeah. yeah
00:43:14
John S
That gets a lot more complicated because you're going to do G68 on the left part. And then if you want to take that same drill or end mill and go to the right part, you need to apply a different G68. So you're going to be bouncing around with variables swapping things in and out a lot.
00:43:28
johngrimsmo
okay Can you do G54 and G55?
00:43:32
John S
and It's not, that's not what, because G54 and G55 are all non-coordinate rotated things. So no, you can't.
00:43:39
johngrimsmo
Interesting. Okay.
00:43:39
John S
I mean, what you do, the left is G54 and the right is G55, but both of them also have a rotational value applied to them.
00:43:46
johngrimsmo
But not their own rotational value.
00:43:48
John S
Correct, there's only one rotation value.
00:43:49
johngrimsmo
Interesting. good I've never used G68 on a machine, but on the Kern, um, I've used similar, whatever they call it.
00:43:55
John S
Mm-hmm.
00:43:56
johngrimsmo
Um, but it's high nine is totally different.
00:43:59
John S
So what was frustrating was, um so what I did was kind of the brute force hack was, well sorry, let me rewind. So what really didn't work was I have one opt-to setup and I just duplicated the setup infusion to where it's gonna post the same code G54 and the same code G55. That obviously doesn't work because it throws up on the, G68 issue. Then I duplicated the setup, which for sure stinks, because now you have duplicate tool pass.
00:44:32
John S
If you make a change to one, you have to manually make it to the other one.
00:44:34
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:44:35
John S
You know the horrors and perils of this. but you would think, and both of those individually will post fine. And they're their own setup. So at the end of it, it's like a full um cancellation of the G68, which is G69. It ends the whole setup. like ah The post goes through the on section or on end, whatever. They both post individually fine. If you post them together, Fusion still throws up.
00:45:03
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:45:03
John S
And that to me is a, I don't know if it's a bug, but it's an it's and incorrect limitation because it should be able to work. And so Seth helped me get the post modded, which kind of sinks if I hate using forked posts, but um now what it'll do is we do not,
00:45:16
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:45:21
John S
minimize tool changes, but in one file, it can, um and with one, the really nice thing was I now got away, I go back to having one set up with a duplicated thing, it can do all of the left part, and then it can continuously go right into making all the right parts, so we can you know come back to the machine hour later and both are done.
00:45:41
johngrimsmo
beauty yeah i hear you subroutine
00:45:42
John S
Yeah, yeah, beauty, but meh. um The other way I tackled this, which honestly might be better because it doesn't require a modded post was, and Caleb took the lead on testing this out, was M98. Which, shout out.
00:45:59
johngrimsmo
yeah nice
00:45:59
John S
Yeah, you you sent me some stuff, which I just forwarded to Caleb. but The other way we were running it, prior to getting the G68 post modded, we just had four files, which s stinks. We had a op one, was everything in the op one, both parts. Op two had to have an individual facing one, then it had to do a left and a right with the end facing or something like that.
00:46:15
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:46:19
John S
um There were four files, which on the Haas control stinks, because you got to go load each file when it's time, hit cycle start, and do the same when it finishes. M98 just let us create a new program that program is like six lines of code, which you know starts whatever. And then it calls the first file, calls the second file, calls the third file, calls the fourth file. And then when it's done, it M30s or whatever. um And what's nice about that is you can repost the individual ones. We're not hand editing code. um yeah Yeah, so that was a that both of those things were big wins in the end.
00:46:47
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:46:51
johngrimsmo
Yeah. And I really like that, that method. That's how we do it on the current. That's how I'm doing it on the speedio now. That's how I wish I was doing it on the Maury, but my code there is like eight years old and it just works fine.
00:47:02
John S
Yeah, right.
00:47:03
johngrimsmo
It would be a lot of changes to get it to do new new techniques, but but yeah, it's a great way to run multiple programs. And then you're just reposting like a certain setup or a certain folder. And and in the folder properties, you got the name, you got the offset number, and
00:47:18
John S
Yeah.
00:47:20
johngrimsmo
if sometimes even in the setup name, I'll be like post this folder, like I'll write the words so that I know what to post and what not to post, you know?
00:47:29
John S
NC program, Sean.
00:47:31
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:47:32
John S
our we we our friendship may fall apart over this one. I mean it that with that much conviction. It's, yeah, you gotta use them.
00:47:40
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:47:41
John S
Well, and look, we're the UMC350 has been that breath of fresh air of starting from scratch with a new machine where we actually are using the machine config, we get simulation, um you even can get lead link lead in and out, move simulation, which I haven't done yet, like super, super nice.
00:47:41
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:47:50
johngrimsmo
you
00:47:57
johngrimsmo
Sweet. Yeah, I played with machine simulation a couple weeks ago ah with the speedio file and just to kind of get my feet wet. And I'm like, okay, this is getting pretty cool. This is cooler than it was last time I looked at it.
00:48:08
John S
Oh, yeah.
00:48:08
johngrimsmo
um And i I need to spend some more time on this.
00:48:13
John S
Yes. So what's up?
00:48:15
johngrimsmo
Sweet.
00:48:16
John S
What do you say? today Oh, yeah.
00:48:17
johngrimsmo
Today reprogram those parts to, uh, that's fine, but my wife's going to check in on me today to make sure I did it.
00:48:26
John S
Okay.
00:48:27
johngrimsmo
So that's good. That's that's fine. It's my, my accountability.
00:48:29
John S
What they, why did you, why did you lose all the, you lost all the can because there's,
00:48:30
johngrimsmo
buddy
00:48:34
johngrimsmo
Most of it. Um, the, the, the model actually is not like whenever I had get latest, the, the derived model disappears.
00:48:44
John S
Oh, I'm sorry.
00:48:45
johngrimsmo
And I don't know why, so whatever. So I brought in a new derived model. And so now I have to base all the toolpaths that are based on the model and just have to click them again. But one thing I love about Fusion is even when everything breaks and you go into the toolpath, it shows you in a red dotted line where the old toolpath was.
00:49:00
John S
Yes, yes, agree.
00:49:01
johngrimsmo
And it's hugely helpful. So I just, I see that and then I click cancel. And then I click that tool board would be, and that, that speeds up like like somebody else could actually get away with doing that. um You know what I mean?
00:49:16
John S
Yes.
00:49:17
johngrimsmo
So yeah, that's what I'm doing today.
Wrapping Up: Get Things Done Without Delay
00:49:19
John S
Okay. Well, sorry, hunker down and just bang through it.
00:49:21
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I'll go down and get it done.
00:49:22
John S
Oh, yeah.
00:49:24
johngrimsmo
So, and Angelo's off today.
00:49:24
John S
I hear you.
00:49:26
johngrimsmo
So I guess I'm Angelo as well, but we'll see.
00:49:30
John S
Yeah. Sorry, I'm yawning here. We drove back straight through, so 20 hours straight, which I'm not. I don't do great at the overnighters, all-nighters, so I'm still catching up.
00:49:39
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah. How long ago you get back?
00:49:42
John S
Today's Wednesday. I got back Monday at 6 a.m.
00:49:46
johngrimsmo
So you just got back. like Yeah.
00:49:47
John S
I've had a day and a half. I kind of slept great last night, but I'll get all worth it though.
00:49:50
johngrimsmo
There you go. Cool. So now that you're back, what do you update today?
00:49:56
John S
ah Also reprogramming a part, but no. We're moving our puck chuck bases to the horizontal, which was always in the plan. So it's just a couple of, hey, what tools am I? We have a kind of inconsistent strategy of like, sometimes I'll just reuse the same three then three eighth inch end mill that we're already using on, let's say a mod vice, but a lot of times I'm trying to set up dedicated tools because I really like, no, I mean, we have,
00:50:19
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:50:23
John S
I don't know, probably seven identical three eighth inch end mills, but they're part specific in the horizontal. And I like that.
00:50:28
johngrimsmo
Yep. Because they wear differently. On different parts.
00:50:31
John S
Bing, bingo, bingo, yeah.
00:50:32
johngrimsmo
Right?
00:50:33
John S
And if one fails, breaks, I can start running the other parts and deal with this later.
00:50:40
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:50:42
John S
And also frankly, if you used all of them on one, we would be replacing that end mill every like eight hours. Oh my gosh, it would be crazy.
00:50:47
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah. Yep.
00:50:50
John S
Um, so programming that, um, and then honestly doing, so I'm actually on the road some soon. So I'm doing some sign up final Willem and prep today. Our Willem is probably somewhere in the minute in the Atlantic ocean right now, hopefully on the surface.
00:51:04
johngrimsmo
me
00:51:06
John S
Um, and, uh, hopefully the ship avoids all bridges and icebergs. Um, and yeah, it'll be here in a couple of weeks.
00:51:11
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Jeez, it's July already.
00:51:16
John S
Sure is.
00:51:17
johngrimsmo
whoa Whoa.
00:51:18
John S
So that's actually, and Grant's been doing all the work on it, but between the Wilhelmin, tooling, rigging, bar feeder, fire trace, oil, there's a lot of moving parts on that.
00:51:28
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:51:32
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm. That's exciting.
00:51:35
John S
Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:38
johngrimsmo
Good man.
00:51:38
John S
That's all I got. Yeah, so I'm off next week, but I'll see you on the 16th.
00:51:41
johngrimsmo
All right.
00:51:43
John S
Take care.
00:51:44
johngrimsmo
So that's good man. Take care.
00:51:45
John S
like
00:51:45
johngrimsmo
Bye.