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The Run Testers Podcast | How to Pick Marathon Shoes
953 Plays1 year ago
Buying a pair of marathons shoes is a tricky business, especially if it's your first 26.2 miles. Nick, Gill and Tom chat through the things you need to know about when deciding on what shoes to buy, from how much money to spend to whether you really need the latest carbon plate super shoes.
We also chat about some of the latest kit we've been testing, including the Nike Vaporfly 3, the Hoka Rocket X2 and the Garmin Forerunner 265, and we welcome the return of running "facts".
Perfect for that Sunday long run.
Big thanks to Fear of Tigers for the killer intro music. You can listen to more of his stuff over at https://www.patreon.com/fearoftigers
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Transcript
Choosing Marathon Shoes
00:00:06
Speaker
Hey Tommy from The Run Testers and welcome to The Run Testers Podcast. In this episode we are going to be talking about marathon shoes, specifically around how you should be picking your marathon shoes, what things you need to be taking into consideration when you do that.
Latest Running Gear
00:00:22
Speaker
We'll also be talking about some of the latest kit like the Nike Vaporfly 3, my Zino Waverrelian Pro and the hardcore Rocket X2.
00:00:29
Speaker
And we'll be answering some of your questions at the end of the podcast.
Interview with Rose Harvey
00:00:34
Speaker
We also have a special treat on this episode because there is an interview with Fuma athlete Rose Harvey that Nick did a few weeks ago. So get to the end of the podcast and you can listen to that. Right, let's jump in and do the podcast.
Podcast Overview
00:00:53
Speaker
Okay guys, the, we're back again for the podcast and we have plenty to talk about this time. The main thing we're going to talk about later on is marathon shoes, but first let's just jump in and talk about training.
Nick's Races and Recovery
00:01:06
Speaker
racing, all the things that we've been up to over the past few weeks and the things that we're going to be up to, to give the listeners a bit of a feel for what the run testers have been up to. Nick, that's sort of you because you have races coming up, don't you? I've got a race this weekend. I've got the Southern Relays in the Olympic Park. I've got a 7.2k race coming up, so guaranteed a PB, which is quite nice, but I've mostly just been getting back to fitness. I'm reasonably fit again. Haven't done a big mileage, but my knee is fine again.
00:01:34
Speaker
I've got about a month before B day, B number two day, potentially. And then everything will, we'll see what happens then. But yeah, the really good track session this week, lots of fun. Yeah, I feel, I feel fit and it's very, very pleasant to suddenly feel fit again. We've had a bit of a layoff, but I haven't done much. So what, you're going to wind down soon then? Is it?
Adjusting Training Schedules
00:01:53
Speaker
I'll do, I'll be stripping back the amount of days I run, mostly be running on work days and probably do shorter distances, but you know,
00:02:01
Speaker
Be all right. We usually work swimming out. We work swimming out with the first kid. We work swimming out with the second kid. He'll be all right. I'm just waiting for the time when there's a new fastest run tester. I just need to maintain beating Tom. So as long as I don't slip three minutes off my 5k pace, you'll be all right. That's quite a bit. I don't think you're worried at the moment, are you? But it's going to be a sweet day when I overtake that. When you're down to 21 minutes.
00:02:26
Speaker
How long, Tom, do you have to, like, maximise Nick's layoff period?
Tom's V40 Training Challenges
00:02:32
Speaker
And what races can you target in that period? Like, how quick can you train up? I just, yeah, well, I'm technically, I'm going downhill a bit now because I'm over 40 now and struggling to
00:02:43
Speaker
to maintain my training. So if I did manage to beat Nick, that would make my life, I think. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. It's all about the V40. That's where it's at. I think I've got a mental edge if it
Jill's Injury Management
00:02:58
Speaker
comes. Even if you're the same fitness, I think you'd panic if you were ahead of me in the last K. I reckon I can get inside your head. It'd be all right. Just sit on your shoulder whispering.
00:03:07
Speaker
Well, Jill, you're running time at the moment, is it going quite so well, is it? No, so there's Nick being like, oh, look at me, I'm getting back to fitness. I was super fit. I was in my best form ever. I was running PBs in training, and then something went ping. Yeah, so I had some amazing training, did like a 22 miler that was like,
00:03:36
Speaker
Beyond anything I could have expected looking in really good form and then took a couple of down weeks to do well and you had a natural down week after that and then agreed with coach that I could try and race a 10k at the end of the next week to try and get a qualifying time for nine 10k PBs and
00:03:54
Speaker
did that, smashed my PB quite nicely, and then had kind of a slow ramp up the next, ran again the next day, and then was kind of getting back into it the week after that, feeling really good. Went to do some mild reps, felt a bit funny.
00:04:11
Speaker
rep 9 and then rep 10 started and went ah as i ran into the rep and um tore well i think it's a slight tear of my plantar fascia oh no yeah which apparently everyone tells me is quite unusual
00:04:27
Speaker
Especially if you've not had plantar fasciitis before, which I haven't. So yeah, it got a nice little bruise on it. Had to go and get some crutches off a friend because I was hobbling around the place and starting to walk weird. So yeah, that was made undies day, I think. When I texted him and went, I might have a slight issue here. We're three weeks to Manchester. But on the upside, I've got my second physio appointment tomorrow and things are feeling a lot better. In the meantime,
00:04:54
Speaker
I've been having some horrific bike sessions set for me, which are certainly along the lines of, if you've ever listened to Magnus and Marcus on coaching, which if you're a running nerd, you probably have, they talk about callousing sessions, the kind of ones where it's all about your mind and bike sessions are for sure callousing sessions.
Barcelona Marathon Experience
00:05:14
Speaker
Hopefully a week off has not left me too much. If I can run, it's just going to be that tricky thing of like, is it too much of a risk to try and raise Manchester?
00:05:22
Speaker
Um, or not three weeks. Yep. So I mean, it's not at all the ideal time, but in a way it's the ideal time. If you can maintain cardio fitness, you probably won't really lose any legs because yeah, that 20 miler was pretty awesome on Strava. Yeah. I was due to have a 20 miler, like the week that's just gone that I've missed. So that was going to be quite, I guess, probably my last big mileage run. Yeah. So it's going to be as much getting in my head as anything else. I imagine because yeah.
00:05:52
Speaker
It's just kind of knowing where you're at, isn't it? And not having done those last kind of big ones, you know, now, even if I start running tomorrow, it's like two weeks out. So you can't really do anything major two weeks out, but. Perfect. Come back for the taper. This actually sounds quite good. I think you should. You'll avoid that nasty Andy, a seven times 3k session he likes doing. So do that on the bike instead. Seven times 3k session.
00:06:17
Speaker
we do six or seven times 3k a marathon pace with float in between so a kilometre which is about 40 seconds off marathon pace or not that so it's you keep you keep moving you don't slow down and jog and it's normally the session that feels amazing but i said it's not amazing before bad and good marathons so it can go either way love a float love a float what about you Tom you you're running again now no you injured yourself as well didn't you last week
00:06:42
Speaker
Oh, only from Barcelona Marathon. So not like a proper, didn't like pull anything or rip anything. It was just bruising from the marathon basically, but it's fine now.
00:06:54
Speaker
So not a problem. But yeah, I need to say Barcelona Marathon was two weeks ago, wasn't a race. I'd basically went along with a load of mates from home who'd not done a marathon before. And it was essentially a stag do with a marathon in the middle. And I've never, that's the most hungover I've ever done a marathon. It wasn't fun. It took me about two hours to get through the hangover and then I was in pain from the marathon.
00:07:20
Speaker
But I still beat him and that was the end. My fear was that my friends were going to beat me. But that was just a fun marathon. I'm going to start doing fun marathons in the spring and then serious marathons in Alton there.
Autumn Marathon Plans
00:07:34
Speaker
Was it their first marathon? It was about nine of us went and only three of us had done marathons before. And Dave Ron hung over as well.
00:07:45
Speaker
It was an incredible amount of chat about this marathon. Going back almost a year, if it was like before you did Berlin to Chicago, Tom, everyone was like really up again. And then you ran fast in Chicago. Everyone kind of gave up and beaten you. So it's just been a...
00:07:58
Speaker
Tom's birthday last summer, there was all of his friends I had met before coming up to me just going, oh, how can we beat Tom? How can we hurt Tom? Yeah, yeah. Well, Ollie, he was only three minutes behind me. I was getting a little bit worried because I started quite far back in the wrong pen because I needed to get to the toilet. So he started like 20 minutes before me. So I had no idea where he was, if I was catching up with him. Mentally, I was like,
00:08:23
Speaker
It's got me on this one, but yeah, three, I'm still three minutes ahead of them. Uh, but yeah, now, now I'm trying to work out, not really bothered about spring ones, but the autumn ones, I think, well, I'm definitely doing Abingdon. Um, but I don't know. That'll be my race unless I can get in a Berlin place or something. And then that'll be my race, but I need to, I think I want to go sub two 50. If I get probably not sub two 50 in Abingdon, but, um, maybe Berlin, I'd go for a sub two 50.
00:08:51
Speaker
You two can run together some time, right? Well, Nick's down and out, creeping slowly towards him. I'll come and pace the first 10 miles if all flights are paid for. To Abingdon, yeah, sure.
00:09:06
Speaker
I mean, I always had a reputation of being like the last chance saloon to get a sub three in the year, but I don't know if it's actually that quick. I don't know too much about it, but I was looking at the course profile. It's not flat. There's a few underlations in it and it's got a bit of elevation to it. And there's a little trail section as well in between two roads. So it doesn't sound like an ideal fast marathon, but
Abingdon Marathon Insights
00:09:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's a funny one. It was my first one back after having my kid. Yeah, yeah. And I did it on a day when it was so misty that like you couldn't see where you were running to for like at the start of it. It starts on a track. And then, yeah, you kind of go off. It's not closed roads. So that's a slight issue because there's one road crossing where I actually had to stop and let a car go by. Oh, that's annoying. Yeah, kind of on closed roads for a PV attempt, don't you?
00:10:00
Speaker
kind of yeah it's I mean it's quite it is a really good course and and to be fair like it didn't feel I mean I was just excited to be back running to be honest but it didn't feel massively undulating at the time there's a few like bits where the trail bit isn't super trail-y it's like you know like a hard packed path
00:10:17
Speaker
But you have to go through one of those like, you know, trail gates almost like to stop. You have to go through that. So, but it's not like it wasn't busy enough that that was an issue. And someone was the guy from the 3D gate analysis company, I can't remember what they're called, but he was doing a world record attempt with a running buggy. So it wasn't like that tight.
00:10:38
Speaker
And he managed to get it and stuff. So it is a fast course, but it's like, you know, it's not super busy. There's not loads of support, but it is a really well organized and you finish with a lap of the track as well, which is lovely.
00:10:53
Speaker
yeah really well organized and like proper changing rooms like it starts in the leisure center which is just like you know that's awesome rather than like some field in the middle of nowhere so nice okay well now i just need to work out how i train if i get a coach or whatever get a coach i think well i am thinking to get a coach i'm in the market for a coach now
00:11:11
Speaker
Didn't Kieran run Abingdon? Wasn't that the one he did completely to feel and ran really well? Yeah, he ran it last year, yeah. I think it was quite, it was torrential rain when he ran, was it? Yeah, I think so. Oh yeah, was that the Prime X one he did? Prime X doesn't count then.
Running Shoe History
00:11:28
Speaker
Okay, right, so running fact? Running facts!
00:11:35
Speaker
Before Tom does this, I want to make it very clear he texted me earlier today saying he'd got some really good run-ifs. So he's really built them up, saying he's not the normal rubbish. They're not all good. And I'm going to start off with a less good one, because I'm saving the good ones for later when the listeners are getting a bit bored. My cat's here just out of frame listening, Tom, so I hope you impress her.
00:11:58
Speaker
Your cat wouldn't be impressed if I did something amazing. Yeah, that's true. Cat's never been impressed by it. And I was also thinking as well, this podcast, there's a lot of marathons coming up over the next few weeks. So some people might be listening to this whilst running the marathon. Whoa. So if you are running the marathon, keep going. Stop now.
00:12:15
Speaker
Have a break. Have a break. Yeah, it's up for that car. Right. Okay. Really facts. Okay. So apparently the concept of cushioned running shoes is relatively new. Before 1970s, most running shoes had a thin sole with little to no padding. But in 1972 Nike introduced the moon shoe, which featured a thick cushioned sole made from EVA foam.
00:12:39
Speaker
which was a major breakthrough in running shoe industry and helped to prevent injuries caused by repetitive impact of running on hard surfaces. But that's a chat GPT fact there. Tom's very into chat GPT these days. I work in content, so that's all I need now. That's got very easy.
00:12:58
Speaker
Okay, so that was the weakest of the running facts. Why first? I've got a couple of absolute beauties later. So I read and I was like, that's actually the kind of thing I'd sell people in the pub. Are these all from chat gv2? No. Okay. Now I've got a couple I actually sat and thought about for a while thinking I wonder what why that is. I like this. I found out so I actually did a little bit work on it. Okay, another one of those in a bit.
00:13:27
Speaker
Okay, so let's talk about running kit. We didn't actually, we didn't really talk about a little kit last time. What did we do in the last episode? It was a special, wasn't it?
00:13:38
Speaker
Tom, I can't remember anything right now. Yes, it was your crossover with Joe Wilkinson, wasn't it? Oh, that one. Yeah, I forgot
Nike Vaporfly 3 Review
00:13:47
Speaker
about that. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that one. So that was that wasn't an official Academy episode. No, that was a little treat to promote the Chatterbix. Yeah, if anybody is new to the podcast, if you go back to the last podcast, there's a there's a fun interview I did with Joe Wilkinson.
00:14:05
Speaker
Dave Earl on their Chatterbix podcast, so go and have a listen to that. I listen to it all the time when I'm out running. Not that episode, all of the episodes. But yeah, I think we skipped it last time, because I think we did a special or something. But we've got quite a few bits of kits to talk about now. So the big one, and this is an area of contention amongst the run testers, because only Jill has got the Vaporfly 3.
00:14:32
Speaker
Ah, that's because I bought them. Well, I didn't buy them. My entire family club together. I bought them for me for my birthday. So yes, I do. I have the Vapefly 3.
00:14:42
Speaker
And they are, as far as I can tell so far, quite a lot like the butterfly too. However, I should caveat it with the fact that I have run once in them and then got injured like straight afterwards. So I've not really had much chance to test them. There are some differences. So there's definitely, I think, more cushioning under the heel, I think.
00:15:05
Speaker
But I have noticed, I haven't found that they've worn as quickly, like, you know, on the Vaporfly 2s or 1s, as soon as you run in them.
00:15:13
Speaker
you get that wear on the heel if you're anything like a heel striker. And these haven't done that as badly. And there's all sorts of weird ways in which they've tried to shave off some weight. So they've got these kind of like stepped sort of sections of the of the undersole, which are kind of all designed to just like take away tiny little bits of foam here and there. And like a little window in the side, which looks a bit like when you used to have the windows, you could see the air pods and unikes and things like that. The upper is kind of like a mesh. So
00:15:42
Speaker
like rain will just flow completely through. It's not the, you know, the windsurfer kind of material that they had on, on some of the two, on the twos. Like other than that, I think, yeah, it was, it was really, I really enjoyed running in it. When I did, I had a really good race. It felt very similar, as I say, to the twos. And I think, you know, no one's going to put them on and be like, Oh my goodness, these are horrible. I doubt that possibly a bit squishier maybe, but yeah, I've only run once in them. So, but
00:16:11
Speaker
big downside and this I think is the case across all of the Nike shoes. My lace came undone because I didn't double knot and cost me a podium place in the race so they have a big negative
00:16:24
Speaker
line again. Why didn't you double knot? Why didn't you double knot? Yeah. Because I was being an idiot and I was so excited about my PB the day before that one really like race mode and I didn't get into that like right double knot. Here we go. I was like, oh, I've got new shoes. I'm going to race again. Happy, happy, happy. Go off halfway round. Lace comes undone. I do like you. So there's a second race in two days. That's pretty, um, and you're pretty rapid in the second one as well. So that's good. That's a good sign for the shoes.
00:16:47
Speaker
It is a good sign to choose. That's good for my feet, apparently. There we go. You haven't got the dynamite. The pink color is incredible. I've got the prototype color. They're the very cool ones. They're like the actually cool ones. Yeah. I mean, they haven't got too dirty. Yeah. So they've got this like step thing going on underneath and cutaways. I mean, you take them out of the box and they're so light, but you kind of expect that now from racing shoes, don't you?
00:17:15
Speaker
You'd be pretty, you know, if you picked out the vapor flies from a box and go there. Cool. All right. Well, from one, uh, well, we'll have, hopefully we'll have some videos of one of
Mizuno Wave Rebellion Pro Review
00:17:26
Speaker
the vapor fly soon. A lot of people have been asking about it in the comments, but from one complaint shoot to another one and a surprising one that my Zeno wave rebellion pro, which both of you have been testing.
00:17:37
Speaker
Yeah, I've had the review up a little while now. I think it's the most interesting and exciting new carbon shoe I've tested in a long time actually does feel a little bit, I don't know, they're all feeling a little bit samey these days in some ways, it's fair to say, because they're all converging on the same formula, but Mizuno is something a bit out there and seems to have found a way to skirt regulations by cutting away the heel and doesn't seem to be 40 millimeters to me, Jill, but where they measure it, I guess it's okay.
00:18:04
Speaker
Yeah, from everything I've been reading, spec wise, it is not 40 millimetres. But because of the way that world athletics measure, it comes in within it because it's at the point from from the deepest point. It's
00:18:20
Speaker
the actual soul itself isn't 40 millimeters. So yeah, it's it's a bit tricksy. I mean, it's bonkers looking, isn't it? Yeah, you know, that kind of like missing bit halfway around the soul and then the heel missing as well. But I have to say like I, they feel pretty firm to me. But the thing that I found about them was that when your form starts to go because you're tired, it kind of gives you that like mental cue
00:18:44
Speaker
to get your form back because you only really get, I found, I only really got the full benefit of them when I was kind of keeping forward and on my toes more than kind of really heel striking and starting to kind of slouch a bit. So I think kind of from a mental cue point of view, it's really, really interesting. Also, they're super grippy because they've got these kind of like tiny little lugs on them, which is quite different as well to most of the other super shoes that really, you know, minimize that outsole, don't they? So kind of save weight.
00:19:14
Speaker
I'm really impressed at how light they still are with that outside, so that in the review was very surprised. But I definitely agree with that, like the queue too. Well, I only did 5K in them and I could feel, okay, get back, lean forward again. Problem with that is I just worry what happens at kilometer 38 of a marathon when it goes, get back forward again and you go, no, I don't want to. Whereas over the shorter races, you kind of can pull yourself together a little bit, can't you?
00:19:36
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. So I think it's like in the other reviews, I've read on kind of other sites and stuff, people have been like, this is definitely a marathon shoe. It's not a shorter distance shoe. I actually disagree with that. I don't think I would risk it on a marathon for that exact reason. I think it's perfect for 10k, because it really kind of gave me that cue. But yeah, I'm not sure I'm not sure I'd be comfortable as a heel striker running a whole marathon in it. But
00:20:00
Speaker
Yeah. If you're more natural midfoot, I'm sure I, basically it's a bit more of an unknown. I think this one is just don't know exactly what's going to happen later on. I've loved it on every run I've used it for. And I've never really felt like even actually, it's weird to say that obviously your model is like the shortest rep, but you know how bad you're running at the end of a mile rep and your legs are like, you know, they're pointing in all directions. It still felt like it was really helping. And I love it. I think it's so fun that, you know, it takes, I am very keen and I think it's really comfortable because they've cut out the plate under the forefoot, which is an area of fatigue for me sometimes in races.
00:20:27
Speaker
So certainly when I'm keen, I'm tempted to use it if I do do London, depending on, depending on various dates, if I do do London, which won't be, I won't be fit enough to really go for a PB, but I'll go for a hard effort. It's probably the shoe I'm leaning towards giving a go. I'll do the same, Nick. We can both Mizuno it around London.
00:20:45
Speaker
tipping over, falling over the wrong way on the mouth. You've got those flatter ones, haven't you? I've got the lovely pink ones that look a bit similar. Yeah, the Kazi Komi. I think it's based on some kind of, yeah, inspired by calligraphy. It's very cool. I thought someone had melted a cow.
00:21:01
Speaker
It does look a little bit like a cow or inspired by calligraphy, depending on how you're feeling that day, I guess. It's one of those shoes I pull on and go, I can't really pull this off. I'm not a cool guy. Hold on, you're the guy that wears shades that look like you're from Blade Runner. They feel like they're more obviously silly.
00:21:24
Speaker
I'm definitely not cool. I'm so uncool, I can wear these. But these are actually cool. I think a lot of people don't look cool in those shades. I think, you know, cool runners look cool. Benny's running look cool in these. Yeah, he definitely looks cooler than you.
00:21:40
Speaker
All right, so from that carbon plate shoe to another carbon plate shoe, we've got the Hawker Rocket X2 in.
Hoka Rocket X2 Review
00:21:48
Speaker
You've not tested this one, have you, Jill? No, I haven't. I'm really interested to. I've heard good things about it, but I was a big fan of the Rocket X originally. Very different shoe. Nothing like that, yeah. In a good way, yeah. Is it in a good way?
00:22:03
Speaker
Well, it's a proper carbon shoe. It's completely different. I mean, if you had those two shoes together, the Rocket X is almost like a training partner to the Rocket X. Yeah. It's very annoyed when running shoes, continue the same line, but make very different shoes. And he's right to. But yeah, because it doesn't make much sense to quit. It's like the new on cloud surfer. And I don't even remember those generations. Completely different shoe.
00:22:27
Speaker
I was thinking about this, and it's basically for marketing, isn't it? Like you've built up that brand name, you've built up all the pages and everything in the search around that. So when you lose a new one, it's really easy to market. But yeah, Nimbus annoyed me. Well, I don't know. I mean, obviously the marketing bots know better than me, but I think that's a false economy because I think, you know, if you love the previous shoe and then you buy the next one, you're just going to be really annoyed with the brand. If you didn't love the shoe and then you buy the next one, then you're never going to buy the next one anyway.
00:22:54
Speaker
based on the names. I don't really understand. Yeah, I agree with the second exactly. Yeah. People go, Oh, well, how could I really make great carbon shoes? It's called the rocket again. I'll skip it. And, um, I did like the rocket X, but I use it more as a trainer. Oh yeah. Yeah. Definitely training shoe. Whereas this is a, this is, you know, but it's, um, I have my concerns about it is I think it is very soft and squishy and I sometimes don't get, and by the end of a second day of a running it,
00:23:16
Speaker
having run it the previous day and only totalling about 27kms like that did feel like it was compressing a bit of the foam but I did have an amazing track session on Tuesday so in the rain it gripped really well and I ran a lot of fast reps so now I like it again. I'm going to race it this weekend and see how I feel about it a bit more. How do you find a carbon plate but with a fairly low drop because it's only five mil in there?
00:23:37
Speaker
Yeah, and it's also actually a low drop because some of them are so rocket. They don't feel like low drop shoes. Like the new balance is a low drop. It doesn't feel like a low drop. This because it's really soft at the heel as well. It feels anything lower. So I noticed it in the 5K. I did the park run. It was like the second part of a session, a classic Andy pre-park run 5K and then a park run. Andy's our coach, by the way. We keep saying his name every day. Yeah, but I felt like, yeah, it's a bit actually like the Mizuno. Like I can tell if I'm rocking back, I don't get very smooth.
00:24:04
Speaker
roll through because it is very soft and it is actually low drop. But I do actually, I don't, I quite like, I still quite like racing in some low drop shoes, but I don't think it's going to be as tippy forward as some of the others for sure. But I found it really soft. You said that you thought it was quite firm, Tom. I think it's really soft.
00:24:19
Speaker
Well, first time I run it was like four days after coming back from Barcelona, so my legs are wrecked. Anything felt firm after that. I did track it last night and I did enjoy it for that. I don't think it's as soft as you're saying though. I'm definitely not. It reminds me of something like the Puma Nitro
00:24:35
Speaker
Oh, I think it's way softer than that, the Puma for me. Really? I don't think it's that far off. I need to brilliant again. And what's the wear like on the outside? Because that's a problem with some hocus, isn't it? It's got rubber, this one. So it's okay. Yeah. And I was amazed. Completely different shoe. Completely different shoe. It was torrential at the track. Like, you know, there was genuinely I wasn't making up. There was actually a duck walking around the track. It was that way. And it gripped the whole way through. And I was doing like 300s by the end. I really should be in spikes, but not going in spikes. Don't want to hurt myself.
00:25:06
Speaker
Let's move on from shoes now because we're getting too in depth. You've got a review up on the channel, haven't you? Okay, yeah. I've got the Rocket X reviewers up and I'll do a race review. We've got a race review probably this weekend because you might do a 5K in it and I'm doing my 7.2K. It's a big one.
00:25:22
Speaker
Cool. Well, let's jump into something that isn't a shoe or a couple of things that aren't shoes, but maybe just do a brief overview of these, Nick.
Garmin Forerunner 265 Review
00:25:32
Speaker
Garmin Forerunner 265. Yeah, brilliant. It's more expensive than the previous version. That's only worth it if you want the AMOLED screen, obviously. I view it as an extension of the Forerunner 2x5 range rather than a new watch and an upgrade because
00:25:45
Speaker
It's basically the 255 of AMOLED and training readiness, which is really annoying that Garmin didn't put that on the 255, I think. I think that's a little bit uncalled for. I know they like to differentiate things very minutely within the range, but it's brilliant. It's probably, if I was buying a watch, I think it's the one that I would go for, because I don't need the maps on the top ones. As much as I love the maps on the top watches, I very rarely leave the immediate five kilometers around my house. So if I get lost within that, that's my fault. But yeah, no, really good watch. It's basically what people wanted, which was a mid-range forerunner with an AMOLED screen, and it does that really well.
00:26:16
Speaker
And we've got a video up on the channel already about that. Yeah, Jane and I reviewed that for the channel.
Casio G-Shock HBD G2000 Review
00:26:20
Speaker
Excellent. And then finally, a bit of an interesting one, not as maybe exciting for some people as the Garmin. Let me just find out the name of it. Casio G-Shock HBD G2000. Yeah, it might be GBD. I might have written that wrong. GBD H2000. Anyway, it's Casio's sports watch. It is about nearly 400 quid, $400. It is, if you love G-Shock,
00:26:44
Speaker
and want a G-Shock sports watch, it is now quite a good sports watch. It's fine. If you are not that fussed about whether it's a G-Shock or not, there are many, many better watches for that money. Kind of simple as that, really. It does everything okay now. GPS is quite good. Heart rate is terrible. Can't connect an external sensor. It's little things like that that mean it's not really going up against garments, but it's got some polar features on it, which
00:27:04
Speaker
Obviously useless if the heart rate's wrong. Yeah, it's all in all, it's fine. If you love that G-Shock look, which I have heard from the kids, it's pretty cool. I wouldn't know myself, but then it's now an okay sports watch, whereas a previous version wasn't. I think it looks like it goes with your shades, your visors.
00:27:25
Speaker
Me and Jill are just looking at you thinking, no, no, not for us. I think we need to get, like, use Nick as a dummy and choose, like, an outfit for him with, like, those shoes, those visors and the watch now. You'll do it anyway. You'll do it anyway. Just check out his Instagram. It's like his fancy dress most days. I like the glasses. I like the funky colour things. The watch I didn't actually like because it was a bit big. At night it was a bit uncomfortable and I couldn't sleep, so I had to take it off.
00:27:55
Speaker
Well, if you're interested in... That's reviews just gone up today. Retro style watches. Yeah, go and have a look at that because me and Joel don't want to talk about it anymore. All right. Let's jump on to different gear.
5K Race Popularity
00:28:08
Speaker
running facts right let's finish this off with another running fact because i know you're desperate for these because i've bigged them up quite a bit okay just to clarify this is from chat gpt as well so absolutely no verification so blame ai for
00:28:26
Speaker
it's nonsense. Apparently, the 5k race distance is the most popular race distance in the United States. According to running USA's annual report, the 5k race distance accounted for 47% of all road race finishes in 2019. Now, that's not the interesting bit. That's quite obvious. The half marathon is 21%. But the 10k is only 10%, which I thought was very odd. I would have thought that was the other way around, half marathon 10k.
00:28:56
Speaker
What's the standard turkey? Is there a standard turkey? Turkey Troy is 5k or 5 miles. That's probably why. Oh, yeah. They don't do 10 k's as much because they love a 5 miler. 37 percent. How many were on Thanksgiving weekend or around? Now, Jill, I'll be very specific with what you're asking them. And I don't want to go back and delve in further to it. But if anybody knows, please please comment or messages. And also you can feel free to say that that's nonsense.
00:29:26
Speaker
Yeah, and if I'm wrong on turkey trucks being 5k or 5 miles, that could be me being wrong as well. Oh, I'm gonna get a load of... A load of turkeys gonna comment. Alright then, another one in a minute a bit. Running facts!
Rose Harvey Training Insights
00:29:48
Speaker
Okay, so we've got a bit of a special interview. Sometimes we throw interviews into the podcast. We've got one, and Nick, you did this one, didn't you? This was an interview you'd done with an athlete.
00:30:00
Speaker
We've spoken to Rose Harvey through Puma. She's a Puma athlete. I actually spoke to Rose before an interview for a different publication, not to run test this, the week before the London Marathon that she ran so incredibly well at last year. I want to speak to her again to catch up, see what she's doing this year, what her plans are. It's not actually marathons for the coming few months. That's quite interesting and how she's been doing with training over in America.
00:30:22
Speaker
So yeah, spoke to Rose Harvey for all things training. And she also gave us her marathon essential outside of classic kit. So that's one out to four in the interview. Cool. Well, here is that interview.
00:30:36
Speaker
Thanks very much for joining us today, Rose. It's great to speak to you and hope all's well with you. Good. Thank you. Thanks very much for having me. It's great to be here. So really want to talk a bit about your training really in this and get an insight into what it's like training as an elite marathoner, what people can maybe take from that and what might be a little bit something that they can't take from it because I'm not elite marathoners, but I'm sure there's lots of stuff that people can learn from yourself. And it'd be great to talk about maybe what you've been training like this year. I believe you've been in the US. What have you really been doing?
00:31:02
Speaker
Yeah, I've been in the US for the last couple of months, so it's been a really fun training block. I'm actually doing something a little bit different this spring because I'm not doing a marathon, so it's the first non-marathon training block I've done. So yeah, it's been different, but it's really fun. It's always fun to mix it up and just have a bit of a
00:31:24
Speaker
bit of a change to the tempo. So working on some shorter distances this spring, 10k, half marathon focus, a lot on the track and really the whole goal of it to be honest is to improve my marathon. I've kind of always felt like the speedier stuff is my weakness. I think having not gone through the traditional trajectory of training as a track runner, as a junior and working up that way, I went straight into the marathon a couple of years ago.
00:31:54
Speaker
So I've actually never really developed that shorter distance.
00:31:58
Speaker
system. And I've always felt like that's held me back a little bit, even in the marathon, because you kind of do still need that, if anything, just to make the marathon pace feel a bit easier. So yeah, I've been really working on that this spring. And yeah, also to try and get a fast half marathon, fast 10K in. So yeah, it's been interesting. It's been hard. It's a very different system, a different work, but it's yeah, it's been great.
00:32:27
Speaker
I seriously, yeah, I did something last year cause I didn't do the track stuff. I remember going to do some 1500 meter races in the door and everyone was like 15 years younger than me, just rinsing me, these kids. I just go back to the marathon. Yeah. I spent the first few weeks of training, getting my ass kicked on the track by the end. And so you've been in America. So Colorado was that altitude training or was it just to be in Colorado? What was that? Yeah. Colorado, we're in Colorado Springs. So, um, yeah, it's.
00:32:56
Speaker
and a half thousand feet, I think. So quite high altitude. It's actually the highest altitude I've done. So that was like another factor, a bit unknown, but yeah, it was great actually. You always feel it, you never completely get used to it. But after a few weeks, you do kind of get used to the struggle, I guess.
00:33:17
Speaker
And yeah, it's just an incredible place to train. Cold, but sunny every day and not quite like the weather here at the moment. It's been raining every day since I've been back. But yeah, it's just an incredible place to train. Lovely to be in the mountains and just really fun being with the Puma group as well.
00:33:38
Speaker
Brilliant. And then when you've come back down, did you immediately feel the difference in breathing? And have you done a race or any kind of hard sessions since coming down from altitude? And how much easier does it feel really when you do that?
00:33:49
Speaker
Yeah, I came, well, we went to, I then went to North Carolina after Colorado, so I had a month there as well. And yeah, the first few sessions feel amazing because you just, you suddenly, you know, you're like, oh my God, I can breathe. And even when, even when you're, you're doing really hard reps, your legs feel short, but your, your lungs don't. So yeah, it's definitely a very nice feeling for the first, I'd say the first couple of weeks after coming down, it does feel really good.
00:34:19
Speaker
And it's just I think you attach to the biggest thing I notice is kind of once you go past that red line in training sessions, there's no return. You're gone. It's so hard to come back from it. And if you just push it a little bit too hard, that's you. You really notice it. Whereas at sea level, you can kind of redeem yourself quite a bit easier. So so, yeah, it was
00:34:44
Speaker
It's definitely a lot more comfortable training at sea level but altitude's good for you. Fair enough and then so you're focusing on these slightly short distances this year, what would a typical training week look like for that and how much would it differ to when you were training for London Marathon to stay last year?
00:35:01
Speaker
So in terms of my training structure, it's not that different to be honest, still do two sessions a week. It's a bit more on the track at the moment when I was doing math and stuff. Normally like one would be on the track, the other would be on the road. And then I'd do a long run at the weekend.
00:35:20
Speaker
This block's been twice on the track and then the long run at the weekend, and the long run's been a bit shorter than when I was doing a marathon block. But other than that, pretty similar. I've decreased my mileage a little bit, but not that much. I never did huge mileage for the marathon either, but I think I was doing about 90 to 100 miles a week for the marathon.
00:35:44
Speaker
now I'm doing 85 to 90. So it's not like a huge step down. But in terms of the session volume, it's also not like a huge step down, but I'm not doing any long runs with marathon pace in because not really much point in doing that at the moment. So yeah, just just nice long runs for time, which is refreshing. Yeah. And are you mostly now training with the group? Is that always been the case for you? Or do you just have someone on a bike or do you try and get training with a group if you can? And though in America, we assume you're working with some kind of team out there.
00:36:13
Speaker
Yes, in America, I was training with the Puma Elite group. They're normally based in North Carolina, but we all went out to Colorado as a team.
00:36:23
Speaker
So as a, as a training camp and yeah, I mean, that, that's incredible. It's just, it's so helpful to have that team environment, people to drag you around the track and just everyone does everything together. So we'll do like easy runs together, gym together, everything. So it just, I guess it just like takes the thinking out of it. It just makes it so easy. All you have to do is turn up, do your best. And then, you know, it's everything else is taken care of, which is, yeah, it's just,
00:36:50
Speaker
is a really great way to train at such a luxury to be able to do that. And then, yeah, when I'm in the UK, I just train with a couple of guys who live locally. So it's not quite a sort of
00:37:06
Speaker
structured, I don't really have like a group as such, but yeah, a couple of regulars who are absolute saints and help me out on the track and sort of kind of sacrifice their own schedule for me, which is, yeah, incredibly kind. That's nice. That must be exciting for them, I'm sure. And the dog for easy runs. Right, yeah. So the dog, I believe Jane knows, right, from the run testers. Yeah. Tell me about it. Yes, she knows that dog. Oh, wow.
00:37:33
Speaker
Yeah, connections, still connections. Jane talks about a dog a lot, so I hear a lot about it. Another thing we've talked about a lot on the channel is running shoe rotations. Do you use a very big rotation or do you have a couple of favourites from the few range you use or what would your breakdown of shoe use look like for types of runs?
00:37:51
Speaker
Yeah, to be honest, I tend to kind of stick to the same shoes. I don't change it up massively. You know, I find one that works for me and I stick to it. So my everyday mileage here is the Puma Velocity 2. And I just, I love a shoe because it's just, it's so comfy. It's just so many miles. It's a real, like, it's just a real workhorse.
00:38:14
Speaker
And it's, yeah, it's great. It's not kind of too high stack, but it's got a nice amount of cushioning, no carbon plate in it, which I quite like for easy one. I mean, some people do like all they're running in carbon shoes, but I just feel like, I don't know, it's, I feel like it's better for my feet to have a bit of a break from them. So yeah, I do most of my mileage and the velocity twos, and then my tempo workouts I'll do in the DV8
00:38:39
Speaker
Puma DV8 II, which is kind of a, it's like an in-between, yeah, it's a temperature, essentially. It's in between, it's got a plate in it, but it's not as aggressive as the ratio. So it's kind of a nice in-between to
00:38:56
Speaker
does a bit more mileage than the ratio is a little bit less aggressive in terms of the push in it, but it still kind of gives you a little bit of a boost and saves your legs for the longer workouts. They use that one for, yeah, any tempo, long runs. And then my ratio is the Puma DV8 Elite 2, which yeah, such a good ratio. I actually do like all of my speed workouts in that as well.
00:39:21
Speaker
it's great for the track because it's like not too high stack so it's quite stable on you can go around the bends without killing your ankles but yeah it's that's also my marathon shoe so
00:39:33
Speaker
Brilliant one. Nice, simple. Yeah, no, that's great. I'm a big fan of Lost It. I've talked to Death about it on the channel, so I think he's talked about it anymore now. And then you mentioned 10K half marathon. Do you have particular races in mind? Or can you even realise? I'm not sure exactly what the protocol is, but yeah, when are you looking to actually put this training onto the races?
Rose Harvey's Upcoming Races
00:39:52
Speaker
Yes. Well, I'm testing out the track, which I've never done before. And it's a bit of a learning curve. Like the spikes take some getting used to. I've never worn a spike. So yeah, it's been a bit of a shock, but I'm probably going to do the night of the 10K PBs.
00:40:09
Speaker
which is the high gate race in London. So I've always wanted to do it. I've been to it a few times. It's just like such a cool atmosphere. So that's been on the bucket list for a while. So I think if I can, if I can master the spikes by then, that would be great. And then other than that, like it's a bit off in the air, to be honest, the time to find some fast 10Ks, half marathons this spring, but it's yeah, it's a bit limited with options and training camps, but
00:40:36
Speaker
Yeah, I'm hoping to get kind of one or two 10Ks and a half marathon in the diary before autumn. Fair enough. There's always Batsy Park, eight laps there for a half marathon. It's great fun.
00:40:50
Speaker
I don't think I've done tank down the track since they banned the shoes. I don't think I can go back to 25 laps in spikes. Yeah, that's my big issue. If I could do them in my road shoes, I'll be fine. And another thing, actually, I'd love to say, we did talk about this before, but it just gives my dream trail. What is that trail you're talking about in North Carolina, which is basically what I'm seeking for every day of my life is a trail like this. So yeah, that would be great to talk about that.
00:41:12
Speaker
Oh, yeah, the American Tobacco Trail. It's it's exactly that. It's like the trail that every runner just dreams of having on their doorstep, which is exactly why the group is based there, because it's got this, you know, these incredible facilities. And it's just, yeah, it's a completely pretty much flat. I mean, when when I'm with the group, they talk about going up the hill. If you've been to Richmond Park and do your easy runs from Richmond Park, this is not a hill.
00:41:39
Speaker
It's like a very gradual incline, which is very nice coming backwards because you are kind of going down slightly and just rolling nicely. But yeah, it's this compact trail. It doesn't get muddy, pretty quiet, doesn't have any bikes on it. No cars. Yeah, it's really a dream trail. It's a long way.
00:42:03
Speaker
That's true. If I'm ever a billionaire, I'm just going to build myself one of those. I could move there, actually. That would make more sense. Probably the easier option.
Marathon Essentials
00:42:11
Speaker
And another thing, so this podcast here we are talking about, I know you are talking about shorter races now, but obviously everyone knows you from London Marathon last year. We talked about marathon essentials, some stuff that people don't really think about. And for example, I picked out some socks and some shorts. Is there anything that you
00:42:23
Speaker
you know, apart from the obvious like shoes and watches everyone thinks about, but maybe people who don't think about being crucial to a marathon performance that you've used throughout your life that you think is, I love using that for a marathon, I never want to do a marathon without that. Is there anything that really comes to mind for that?
00:42:37
Speaker
I think getting some really good fuel is really crucial. I'm kind of working out what works for you. I use Morton and I've always found it. Yeah, it just works for me. I think it's a lot of the gels I struggle with the taste of them like they're so sweet.
00:42:54
Speaker
I really learned the hard way. The first marathon I did, I didn't practice with gels, I didn't practice with drinks. I used to just, a bit of a camel, I just used to go for these two and a half hour runs and have no water or anything. And then tried to do a marathon with, for some bizarre reason, I chose these banana-flavored caffeinated gels.
00:43:18
Speaker
Oh, it was the worst mistake. I had like two and just couldn't do any more. And I still, I don't really like bananas.
00:43:34
Speaker
Yeah, it was bad. My friend, the first one, he went for the little goo birthday cake flavour and he carried like 50. It was a goo one. Yeah, it was so bad. They're like concentrated as well. So it was, yeah, I can still kind of remember the taste. It was a bad day.
00:43:53
Speaker
So yeah, I think just finding something that isn't a banana flavor caffeinated gel doesn't make you sick. Yeah, it's really essential.
00:44:11
Speaker
Okay, so different gear this month is, well, there's a lot of marathons going on over the next few weeks.
Choosing the Right Marathon Shoe
00:44:16
Speaker
So different gear, we're gonna be talking about how to pick a marathon shoe, what you need to be looking for in marathon shoes. Now, to be honest, we don't advise you getting any new marathon shoes at this point, because you're probably in the finest stages of your training. But it might be interesting to listen to you for the next one that you do.
00:44:30
Speaker
So I've got a few questions here for us to talk through and just really give advice on different things that you might look out for when you're picking up your next marathon ratio. So let's start off with a nice simple one. What makes a good marathon shoe?
00:44:46
Speaker
I think a shoe that you love putting on your feet, first of all, you want something that you're going to put on and think that, you know, know that you're going to feel comfortable in it. But that said, I also think a little sprinkle of fairy dust, if that's not too like nefarious term. But one of the things I think is great about carbon shoes is that they just like, if you don't use them in training, and then you use that, like, you know, an
00:45:13
Speaker
and use them a bit in training, but then, you know, only really use them in a race day. You get that little switch and your brain goes, ah, race time now. So I think you want something that is comfortable, but not completely normal.
00:45:28
Speaker
Great. Yeah. You definitely want that little, little spark for race day. I don't think viewers, mostly you want comfort protection and then certain runners will want speed as well. And it used to be, you couldn't really get them all in a package. You kind of can these days because phones are so lightweight, but protection I think is, is underrated. If you, uh, if you keep yourself in good shape, you're going to run better at the end of a race. So opting for maybe a slightly more cushion shoe and if it's a bit heavier is usually the way to go, especially as you can wang in a carbon plate and it kind of takes away the weight anyway.
00:45:55
Speaker
i would say that i race in complex shoes i race in some of the top tier complex shoes but i know a lot of runners don't necessarily want that so i think there's there's probably it largely depends on what type of runner you are but i think ultimately outside of anything else whether that speed anything like that it's comfort because i've raced i've done
00:46:16
Speaker
like marathon in shoes that I've not found comfortable. They may have been fast. I did actually do half marathon the other day, brighten half marathon in the endorphin elites, suckling endorphin elites. My feet were in tatters the whole way. I was in so much pain. Got a PB. Got a wonderful PB. I didn't enjoy it one bit. So I'd say really comfort is the focus I would say for
00:46:39
Speaker
for shoes above anything else for me. But, you know, if you're an elite, you probably forego that for a few, few marginal seconds. Well, I think you want to bear in mind how long you're going to be on your feet as well. That's that, that trade-off, isn't it? With the elite versus the non-elite. You know, if you're non-elite, you're going to be out for like, you know, four hours, whatever, three hours. Then, you know, any stiffness around the heel or any kind of like lace lock system that is remotely uncomfortable or any tongue that slips down.
00:47:08
Speaker
is gonna be a massive issue. If you're an elite who's running like 210, then things aren't gonna ramp up so quickly with that discomfort anyway. So yeah, I think just watch out for all those kind of pressure points. Yeah, play to the type of runner that you are and what you're aiming to do in the marathon. Don't just go for the top.
00:47:27
Speaker
the most expensive best carbon plate ratio out there because it might not be the right one for you. All right, well, that leads on to what should, what do you think people should look for in a marathon shoe? When they're going out shopping, when they get online, what should they be looking out for when they're trying to pick their marathon shoe? So it is all obviously very individual and all that kind of stuff in terms of what kind of drop you like and all that.
00:47:46
Speaker
it is I think there's a bit more convergence now and you used to be in the putt in the past if you wanted speed you're looking like a very flat lightweight shoe which did trash your legs a little bit but now you don't have to make that trade-off you can get a nicely cushioned shoe I personally would be looking at shoes about 30 millimeters a stack and above because you might as well have that cushioning it's so lightweight these days and
00:48:04
Speaker
then it really comes down to the question of are you looking for real comfort just to enjoy the race, in which case get yourself a nice cushioned cruiser of a shoe without a plate. And if you are looking for speed, then you start looking at shoes with a plate and picking between them and trying to find one that suits your fancy, whether that's certain drop or a certain feeling underfoot, a firmer feeling, a softer feeling, a bouncier feeling, a tippy forward feeling. There's a lot of choice out there, but yeah, I generally start with a nice big slab of cushioning, go from there.
00:48:28
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think again, it depends on the runner you are. So if you're the kind of runner who doesn't want to spend a fortune on a shoe that you're only going to wear a few times before it wears out or, you know, the sole isn't at best, then you're going to be looking for, you know, slightly more durable outsole, something that you can train in a bit more as well as run your marathon in.
00:48:48
Speaker
Um, however, if you're someone who is like purely alter everything, add it to get a PB, then you want to be looking at, you know, super lightweight, you know, think about your running style as Nick says, you know, if you're up on your tippy toes person, you might be looking for a slightly different shoe to someone who's a heel striker. Um, so again, it's just kind of knowing your, your own needs, I think. Um, yeah.
00:49:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think choosing a marathon shoe for somebody who isn't experienced in the type of marathon shoe they need is really, really difficult because it's not like a normal shoe where, you know, you go out, buy a shoe, you start running in it, you do loads of miles in it and you get to know, you know, you enjoy that shoe. With a marathon shoe, you're only really finding out if that's the right shoe during the marathon. There's many shoes that I've done training in and then got to the marathon and gone, oh, this is not a great shoe for,
00:49:39
Speaker
you know, the last 5k of a marathon or something like that at the speed that I'm running at. I mean, there's a lot of shoes that I found out have been fantastic and really won the day for me, but I think it is very difficult. So I would say for someone like a beginner, it's probably best to go for a safe option. There's a lot of new shoes coming out all the time and every one of them sort of says it's the best one for races. I'd say always go for a tried and tested one that a lot of people really rate and have done for a while.
00:50:07
Speaker
you know, something like the Vaporfly or something like that, because you've got a safer bet than some of the new ones out there. So yeah, for most people, I would say if they're new to picking shoes for a marathon, go with something that a lot of people are really keen on. Don't go for something that has just come out.
00:50:22
Speaker
And you also probably need to tailor a bit to your marathon. We're assuming people are doing big city marathons for the main, which are just nice flat roads, closed roads. But if you are, we were talking about having a marathon earlier in the podcast today, there's a little bit of trail or a few shots, a lot more turns in your marathon than usual. Then that's something to take into account maybe when looking at very high stack shoes. And things like grip as well. If you're in the UK, you might need to do a bit of that. Yeah, it starts raining. Yeah, you don't want to be doing a marathon in a slippy shoe.
00:50:49
Speaker
And I think it's always worth considering as well some of those kind of training partner shoes. I'm aware that I say this as someone who's like, I love my carbon plate shoes, I love trying the brand new shoes. But actually, you know, we've seen in the past, some of those kind of training partner shoes to the carbon shoes might actually be a better bet for someone who is, you know, wanting something which is going to give them a bit more, but doesn't necessarily want to go all out or kind of risk the really aggressive carbon plate shoes.
00:51:16
Speaker
there's some there's some great ones out there you know like the speed three or something like that but you know it's still going to give you that kind of race day feel but is is more kind of useful the rest of your training cycle as well
00:51:29
Speaker
and is probably going to be less aggressive on your feet and less likely to cause you problems towards the end. Yes.
Stability in Marathon Shoes
00:51:35
Speaker
And also thinking about towards the end, the other thing we haven't mentioned yet is stability, which is obviously a big thing with the higher stack shoes. It is worth really knowing yourself on that front. Is a shoe going to roll in? My other mate is a really good runner and he ended up, he has a few carbon shoes and just used the Boston for his, the Adidas Boston for his half marathon, the marathons, because he realized as good as Vapefly was producing the results, it was really hurting him. And in a marathon that can
00:51:56
Speaker
That might mean you don't finish the race, and that's the worst situation of all. Running facts! All right, there's just a lot of chat there about marathon
London Marathon Origin
00:52:07
Speaker
shoes. Let's break it up with another of the fantastic running facts that I've pulled together. This is quite interesting actually, this one. It's not one of the best ones, but it's quite interesting. The first ever 5k race was held in San Diego, California in 1970.
00:52:23
Speaker
The race was called the Crazy Legs Mini Marathon and was organised by a local track club and attracted over 200 runners. Is it verified, is it?
00:52:31
Speaker
That's ChatGPT, so... Was it 5k races in the Olympics or anything like that? 5,000 meter races at least? Maybe it's Road Race. Look, this is ChatGPT, so... Like when I take facts off of Wikipedia, this is even worse. And I should clarify here, as I normally do in every single episode of the podcast, none of this is verified. This is just coming off various sources.
00:52:54
Speaker
Please comment on it. Please just argue it if it's completely wrong. This is not my fact. This is... We're now one stage removed because it used to be Tom finding dodgy facts via Google and now it's a robot finding dodgy facts by Google. Well, they're not all from Jack GPT. I've got some actually, I've did some good research on just throwing the worst ones at you first to really get you ready for the big ones later on because the big ones are going to blow you away. Just to remind everyone that Tom did text me earlier today just to say how good his facts were and so far we've had two of the worst ones or so. Yeah, well, yeah.
00:53:23
Speaker
They're still not as bad as some of the other ones I've done. No, that is true, yeah. Running fast! Right, okay, so we've kind of answered this one already, but a lot of people comment on the video, especially when we do race shoes.
Carbon Plate Shoes for Marathons
00:53:39
Speaker
Do people need carbon plate race shoes when it comes to a marathon? Because nowadays it almost seems all the marketing and everything is sort of expected, and if you haven't got a carbon plate race shoe, then you've got the wrong shoe. But is that really the case?
00:53:52
Speaker
I would say you really don't need a complex shoe. I think they are pretty unequivocally the best racing option for the marathon at a certain point of your running, but I wouldn't use a marathon a complex shoe if I was starting out today. I think first marathon, I wouldn't use one. Unless you're someone who's very experienced has raced loads of half marathons, has just happened to just do their first marathon, then maybe you'd be really experienced with shoes.
00:54:12
Speaker
I mean, there's an edge, but they are, as always, like the cherry on top of everything else. And they aren't for everyone. They're expensive. They are unstable. I don't think you need one at all. I think if you're going all out for a PB and you've trained in them, if you use them a lot, then they are the best option. So that is the problem. I don't think there's any doubt anymore that they actually do what they say they do.
00:54:31
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, no one is going to get you to a start line of a marathon and be like, sorry, you're not wearing carbon shoes. You can't run this marathon. And also, yeah, again, like it depends, it depends on your mindset, what you're, what you're looking to achieve as well. Like if you just want to finish a marathon, I say just like if you want to finish a marathon, it's not a just, then absolutely you don't need carbon plate shoes.
00:54:52
Speaker
They'll cost you lots of money. They might cause different fatigue on your body that you're not used to. There's lots of reasons why they necessarily wouldn't be a good idea. And also you can feel really smug knowing that you've done a marathon without carbon plate shoes when everyone else around you has got a little leg up from their carbon plate shoes. So you get kind of like smug points as well. That said, you know, it's very easy for someone like me who has carbon plate shoes or like us who've got carbon plate shoes, we've run all our races in them to be like, oh yeah, no, you don't need them. But actually, if you said to me tomorrow,
00:55:20
Speaker
run a marathon and don't wear carbon plate shoes. I'd be like, oh, but that loses me like a couple of minutes because that is my mindset and I am time driven and I know that. And so it depends on your mindset, doesn't it, on how you're running the race. And like we said, like how much you've practiced it and things like that. But I do think there is something
00:55:39
Speaker
really nice about knowing that like purity of knowing your time as well that isn't from complex shoes, because there's no doubt about it, they will give you an edge for pretty much everyone. Like, we know that, you know, the response as far as speed varies a lot for people, you know, as the whole 4% thing to begin with was like the maximum
00:55:58
Speaker
But actually, a lot of the benefit is, as you've mentioned Tom in the past, is like that lack of fatigue towards the end, it's the protection. And the kind of the fact that you're not using those muscles as early on, because you're getting that help. So that is kind of one of the big benefits of them. And that will help most people to some extent. But you know, if you're sensible in your shoe choice, and you've chosen something which is comfortable, which you've trained in, then
00:56:24
Speaker
that is going to do you a whole bunch better than if you just go out and buy a carbon shoe having never worn it before and throw a load of money at it and then you don't know what's going to happen. That has the potential to kill your race loads more than not buying a carbon shoe in the first place.
00:56:40
Speaker
Nice. Yeah. I agree with what you both said. I'll start to that really. Although it's a good point that you said that, Jill. I think if somebody said to me, you need to do a marathon tomorrow, can you wear these shoes instead of your carbon plate, race shoes that you like wearing? I'd be like.
00:56:55
Speaker
Not sure about that. But I would like to, it's been a long time, the first few marathons I did, I did in non-carbon plate race shoes. I don't think they existed at the time, but it's been a long time since I've done a marathon in a non-carbon plate shoe. So I would like to see how it felt actually.
00:57:10
Speaker
I'd also say that they're not, you know, they are. They definitely make a difference. They're definitely helpful. And if you race, it's the thing you want, but it isn't going to be the difference. If you train really, really well and you rock up in any shoes like my my first sub three I did in the Supernova, which is the biggest shoe I've still to this day had ever seen just because I wanted a comfortable shoe. And it was fine because lots of great shoes are great forever. They're all great for running the design for running most of them. And but yeah, they certainly give you the edge, but I wouldn't be gutted if I didn't have to wasn't wearing them tomorrow.
00:57:41
Speaker
Yeah. So I ran my first sub three in a 60 on in bus, which are like, you know, dead weights on your feet. Um, and I ran my PB in adios adi zero twos, which like super racing flat type ones. Um, but that still stands to that day. And that is a bit of a, you know, I've come two seconds close to that.
00:58:00
Speaker
but that was in carbon plate shoes. So in my mind, it's not two seconds from that. It's like, you know, two minutes, two seconds or something. So there is that thing as well of like, there's a little bit in your brain that if you've run in both, you're like, are the times comparable? So maybe save yourself the heartache.
00:58:20
Speaker
I'd say if you're new to a marathon, don't run in carbon plate shoes because if there is a benefit you get from it, save that for a little bit later. Do the first one in shoes that you're comfortable with and then... Bigger shoes you can find. Common shoes. Two kilograms each. That's an interesting question though. I wonder what the lightest non-carbon plate shoes are that are still quite cushioned?
00:58:41
Speaker
Well, they're amazing these days. I was thinking to the day if I was using the Mac five or like the Rebel V3, even the Brooks Hyperion Max, I would love to race them. Like if you think even the AUS Boston, which was the shoe I was going to use from marathon until the last minute, I managed to get some carbon shoes when it was really hard to get them. It's heavier than those shoes. There are some amazing lightweight foams on the market now that just sometimes don't have plates in and they're still really brilliant to run in.
00:59:01
Speaker
All right, this should be a relatively simple one to do. This is a little bit like the last question, but it's more to do with, you know, somebody is looking for shoes, they're on the internet, they're in a shop, the race shoes are really expensive.
Cost and Value of Marathon Shoes
00:59:13
Speaker
Do people need to spend a lot of money on marathon shoes? No.
00:59:18
Speaker
No, they don't. Actually, it's the best possible time to be getting into carbon plate shoes because there's a massive developed market now and there's loads of amazing older versions that are probably equally as good. In some cases, sometimes you can feel a bit better than the new ones. Even if you're going for the very top tier of shoes, you can now get them at massive discounts if you're prepared to wait, keep an eye on things, shop around, wait for sales. If you've got a marathon just after Black Friday, you're going to be in big luck, put it that way. Also, if you're just looking for cushion shoes that are going to do the job, you can get those for a lot around
00:59:44
Speaker
you can get brilliant ones for around £100 that are often reduced, things like the Nike Pegasus, the Puma Velosti Nitro II, comfortable shoes that will see you through the race and are often reduced even from reasonable R.I.Ps. So I think this is the least you'll ever have to spend for a while on marathon shoes, as long as you're not insisting on buying the new £300 one. You never have to pay ridiculous amounts of money for running shoes these days. I slightly disagree with you both, I'm afraid. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, I think it's all relative, but it might
01:00:13
Speaker
There used to be a time when you could get a decent shoe for 60 quid or 40 quid even if you're really lucky. But what we're saying now is you can get a decent marathon shoe for £100 if you swap around. You don't have to spend £300. Still a lot of money, but you probably do need to pay around £100, £120 for something that is good enough if you want to be something that's going to get you through that marathon to show the training that you've been in.
01:00:40
Speaker
I agree that you don't have to go for the 300 pounds one, you know, like the 90 next percent three, you know, why buy those when you can buy two pairs of the next percent two and they're not that much difference for the same price. Like absolutely don't don't always go and buy the brand new one for the super price. And it is really good that, you know, there is competition now and they are going to have to price down and think, you know, like there is a bit of competition going on there. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I still think like 120 quid, you've probably got to be around that mark, haven't you?
01:01:10
Speaker
Well, that's if you're going for like a car ratio. You could quite comfortably run a nice marathon in the Puma Velocity Nitro 2, something like that.
Availability of Racing Flats
01:01:20
Speaker
If that was your focus, you just wanted to finish. I think that'd be quite fine for you to do.
01:01:24
Speaker
Re-bonded by Ride Energy 4 as well, it was a good one. But yeah, the flats, flats were cheap because there was nothing there. That is one thing. I was going to say, racing shoes have got a little bit more democratic and they're much more comfortable, but the pricing hasn't got more democratic. Certainly the flats were flat. So you probably can still find some flats. Any brands still make new flats? Well, I mean, the problem is, of course, that most of the new shoes are not track legal. So if you ever want to run like a 5k or 10k on the track and you don't want, obviously you don't want to run that in spikes, probably.
01:01:51
Speaker
unless you're a pro. Actually, there aren't many racing flats out there now that are track legal. So there's one of the on shoes and one of the old Adidas ones that you can still get in sales. And that's about it.
01:02:07
Speaker
The onshore, I think, is harder on your legs than spikes. That one, the one that the cloud flashed. All right. So the last question I've got on here, nice simple one for
Common Mistakes in Shoe Selection
01:02:16
Speaker
you. What common mistakes should people avoid when picking up a new pair of marathon shoes? Anything you can think of where you go. I've been tricked by that before. Don't do that. By the newest brand, newest one straight away. I bought the Alpha Fly. It wasn't for me, but I mean, and also don't be tricked into thinking you have to keep them necessarily.
01:02:34
Speaker
Most brands will let you send them back if you've barely run in them. So make the most of it. I'd say, I think a mistake generally made in marathons is going in thinking this is your last marathon, the only marathon you're ever going to do, putting it all on this incredibly important shoe choice. I'd say be a bit more relaxed, maybe really think about where you are and try and aim for a comfortable shoe if you need one. And yeah, it was Tom said earlier, but I say this as a general point because you get comments on video saying, oh, I saw so-and-so won this race in this shoe. So it must be the best shoe.
01:03:03
Speaker
elites are great and they're all running in the top shoes but elites have sponsors and They tend to be sponsored by two companies and it doesn't necessarily mean they make the very best shoes We haven't I often use Nike shoes, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're the best shoes But so yeah, I wouldn't get too distracted by that because we're a load of very good brands who don't necessarily Sponsor the athletes in the same way and don't have the shoes on the people who are gonna win those races anyway So I wouldn't just watch Boston and then pick up whatever shoe you get show who wears if he wins. He might not win
01:03:31
Speaker
Well I would say make sure you run a good distance run in the shoes that you want to do your marathon in before you do the marathon. Because if you get a new pair of shoes and do a few 10k's in them, then you're not getting a good view of how that shoe is going to deliver over a marathon because it's a very different experience in the later stages of a marathon with a shoe. And sometimes I've made some real clangers from
01:03:54
Speaker
I've run marathons in new shoes before because I had to test them. Yeah. And they felt fine. I put them off. These are great. You know, first 5K, 10K. And then you get to half marathon like, oh man, these are awful. I'm not enjoying these at all. Yeah. I don't think I'd go into a marathon in a shoe I hadn't done. I think 30K and a 30K that included some sections of hard pace to really, cause you've got to put a bit of impact through the shoes to sometimes feel like they're going to be comfortable.
01:04:18
Speaker
Cool. Well then guys, I think that covers us for marathons. And if you're listening to this and you're doing a marathon this month or next month or whenever you're listening to this, good luck. I hope you found that useful. Running facts.
01:04:34
Speaker
Okay, let's go in for the next fact. Now we'll get into the facts that I actually think are quite good. Now we've cleared out the chat GTT ones. So this one is, apparently the idea for the London Marathon first came about at the Dicer Arms, a gastropub near Richmond.
01:04:52
Speaker
as members from a running club chatted about their experiences at the New York City Marathon. Four Olympic champion and journalist Chris Brasher and athlete John Disley were so impressed by the event which they attended in 1979 that they decided London had to have one of its own. They went out to set up the London Marathon in 1981. Did you know that? Didn't? I didn't know. I didn't know that. I didn't know that they'd been so excited by New York. I actually didn't know New York was older than London. Yeah.
01:05:20
Speaker
That's a good fact, isn't it? That's an interesting fact. No, Tom. That's a good fact. And that's what is actually from the Abbott website. So I'm going to trust that one. That's not an AI one. That wasn't me to question him on that one. He'd only throw the Abbott website in our face.
Fantastic Facts Teaser
01:05:37
Speaker
I was waiting for somebody to come back. No, I was pretty pleased. For the first time, I was pleased with the facts.
01:05:44
Speaker
The next one's even better. The next one's even better. Another one of those fantastic facts in a bit if you carry on listening to the podcast. So well worth carrying on.
Listener Questions
01:06:01
Speaker
Okay, guys, last bit of the podcast where we run through some questions that we've had from YouTube comments, from emails and on Instagram. Don't have to go into too much depth with these. And to be honest, most of these aren't really that difficult to answer. Well, we'll set it now. We'll probably be chatting about this for the next hour.
01:06:23
Speaker
Let's start. We've got one from MV. He says, thanks for the video. You're welcome. Question. Does it have a good grip when it is wet? That's about the Mach 5. I think it's been actually surprisingly good grip because it's not got an outsole. I've never had any problems with the Mach 5 grip. Yeah, same here. I think it's pretty good and I was doing quite a lot of running in the rain in it when last year. So yeah, no issues for me. Well, it does look like it probably wouldn't be that good, but it's fine. Okay. Awesome plumbers.
01:06:50
Speaker
This is an interesting analogy. The Speedgoat 5... This is word for word, but you get the gist. Speedgoat 5 at $155 or Tecton X at $140. I presume he's asking, which would you buy? I don't know. I think the Tecton X is, I think, a slightly nippy issue for racing and the Speedgoat 5 is a more versatile, comfortable shoe. I think they both do quite similar things really quite well. They're both good shoes.
01:07:19
Speaker
I don't do ultras, I think is where they probably shine the most, but I liked both, but the Speedgoat 5 is a shoe I like the most just for my kind of trail runs, which are mostly quite relaxed.
Shoe Debates
01:07:30
Speaker
So maybe a Tekton 5 if you're a bit more, if you're a bit more speedy focused. Yeah, they're pretty similar for being what I've used them for. I'm surprised that the price is that way around there. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Michael Jovil says, great job.
01:07:45
Speaker
Thanks very much. Just curious, which is your favourite of the Spanish races? Oh, this is for me. Great job. Just curious, which is your favourite of the Spanish races you have run? Good question. Somebody asked me this when I was over there. And I said it was... Oh no, it was on the podcast I went on. Cool, let's go. And I said my favourite...
01:08:06
Speaker
is actually Madrid, but it's really, really, really hard. The best one, technically my favourite should be Valencia, because it's a fantastic marathon. I think you've both done that as well, haven't you? Yeah, absolutely. Best marathon. Done Seville, done Bilbao, done Barcelona, they're not a patch on Valencia. That was my favourite, apart from Madrid. But don't do Madrid if you want to get a PB, because it's ridiculous. Why is Madrid your
Favorite Marathon Experiences
01:08:30
Speaker
favourite? What's good about it?
01:08:31
Speaker
It's just the view is incredible. Madrid's on a big hill, basically. It's like an enormous hill right in the middle of Madrid. And you basically run to the top of it. So you go, it's really hard. But when you get to the top, the view is incredible. And you don't normally get that sort of view in a marathon. And I was quite surprised. I didn't really look at the elevation or anything before I did it. But it was, I blew me away. And I did have a really good race as well at the time.
01:08:59
Speaker
And it's quite a small marathon as well, which I quite like. It was a bit low key. Yeah, I've not really heard anything about it, apart from from you. It's not that big. And definitely nobody there seemed to care. There weren't many crowds or anything, which I like. You know, people cheering at me. Just let me get on with it.
01:09:19
Speaker
Paul Behrens says, is New Balance Hiero V7 worth a mention? This is the best road to trail shoes. Not really. It's all right. I thought it was quite good. I mean, I probably would have mentioned it if I'd remembered it, but that's probably a sign, I guess. But yeah, it's all right. It's a solid shoe. It's just a bit clunky for me. It's a bit of a heavy shoe in comparison to some of the ones that I picked. And when we got it at one of the launch events, they took us on a really muddy run that couldn't handle that at all. So there was that as well.
01:09:46
Speaker
Yes, that's true.
Marathon Distance Explained
01:09:48
Speaker
Running facts!
01:09:52
Speaker
Right, quick running fact. This is the last running fact and this is one that I really like. You probably will know this one. It might be the sort of thing that everybody knows and that's the first time I've heard of it and I'm going to look like a clown. Okay, so apparently the additional 0.2 miles of the marathon started. Is this a new, is the year this? No, it's the year this. What? You already know this one.
01:10:17
Speaker
If it's a bit about London going up because the Queen walked the seat all the way around. Yes, I've never heard that before. I bet there's people listening to this who haven't heard that either. The fact in full, go on. Right, so the 0.2 miles of the marathon, additional 0.2 miles, started at the 1908 at London Olympics because the Royal Family wanted to see it from Windsor Castle. It started the race from Windsor Castle and the end of the race from the Olympic Stadium Royal Box.
01:10:43
Speaker
Wow, Tom, that's amazing. I've never heard that before. If you're listening to this and you didn't know that, comment and go, that's actually a really good fact. Well, a bunch of suck ups we are in this country. Tell them to move. Go stand down and watch the race where it's finishing. Unbelievable. I'm just trying to rile up if I don't like the royal family. Start singing the Republic or something. Oh, well, that's a downer on the podcast now, isn't it? I'm so excited about that one. I've never heard of that before. Tom, well done.
01:11:10
Speaker
It was a really good effort. Anyone listening to this who didn't know that, please comment. What are they commenting on the podcast, by the way?
01:11:18
Speaker
You can leave that, you can leave a review on the, like an image on the
Listener Interaction Encouragement
01:11:22
Speaker
screen. And let him know your thoughts. I'll just put the comment on any run tester's video and watch him travel around, figure out what on earth to talk about. Well, it's going to be podcasting caps and we'll do a search next month. We'll find all the ones. Yeah, the next time I'll just use chat GPT for all of it. Those are the worst ones. Definitely. I mean, at least the last one was interesting. The first seven times I heard it. I don't know why I've never heard that one unless I've just never listened to it.
01:11:45
Speaker
I think it's been every time we've gone to like a marathon event with a brand who's, you know, sponsoring London Marathon, that will have been like on the wall somewhere. So, yeah. There we go then. All right, that's over for Running Facts this week. Running Facts! I feel a bit bad now, because he looks quite damn close. You should, you should. Right, back into the questions. VTrue says, how does it compare to the Endorphin Pro 3? He's talking about the Rock.
01:12:13
Speaker
Sorry? Brilliantly. It doesn't matter whatever shoe it is. Let's see. Hawker Rocket X2, that video. So how does it compare with the Endorphin Pro 3? It's quite a good question. This is going to be a versus we'll probably end up doing sometime soon. Yeah. Well, we disagree a bit on the Rocket X. I think it's softer than you. So I think it's actually quite similar. But it's probably more of a rocker and a roll forward in the Pro 3. But I think the Hawker's a bit softer, but they're quite similar.
01:12:43
Speaker
nonsense okay i i think uh no the rocket x i think in shape and size i think it's probably quite similar but i definitely think the hocka rocket is a little bit more of a poppier i do think it's a bit firmer in the pro 3 it doesn't feel as natural but the pro 3 is a very natural comfortable feeling shoe you can wear it as a training shoe i wouldn't use hocka rocket x2 as a sort of
01:13:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's just probably a bit more relaxed. It's got a real roll to it as well. Yeah, it does roll a bit more probably. But then, yeah. Okay.
Shoe Comparisons
01:13:14
Speaker
Tim Laporte says, how would you compare the Puma velocity to with the Clifton 9?
01:13:21
Speaker
uh, pumas Interesting this one actually because I always, you know, I always go on about great. The puma velocity nitro is too But I think when people I do that people I think expect something magical when they pull it on but what I really like it is because it is kind of quite normal feeling and grounded and works very well and just Has a nice feeling that so I think it is quite soft quite Nancy and then it gets a bit firm when you run a click and it works Well for that but is that different a bit more of a rolling shoot a bit feels a bit heftier even though it's probably the lighter shoe it actually feels a bit bigger to me, but
01:13:50
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know, I think the velocity feels a bit more normal. Yeah, the velocity is a bit more versatile, I think, a bit more of a varied, more varied daily shoe, whereas the Clifton 9 skews more towards cushioned, softer runs. Although it is a far superior shoe to the previous versions, so I do actually like that shoe.
01:14:08
Speaker
Got a hard question that, Tom. I haven't really... It's our question. I think both of them are... It's a good question, because they're both ones that you sort of look for in the same things. I think the Clifton too... The Clifton just skews more towards just sort of more cushioned longer runs. Okay. Fina1977 says, Hey, Tom. Sorry, guys. I'm not doing these on purpose. These are just where they came up. Hey, Tom. I think you're... Why are you so great?
01:14:34
Speaker
This is actually very... I'm not doing this on purpose. I choose the questions and just by accident they're all... This one comes from Warm Teatly. Honestly, I went through a lot of questions to pick these out. I wasn't going to pick this, but I was struggling. Hey Tom, I think your profile on the Runetester's website is a bit out of date. Didn't you run into three hours in Chicago? Unbelievable. Unbelievable.
01:14:56
Speaker
But I added this in because everybody's are out of date at the moment. I need to go through and update everyone's running times on there. But yeah, you're right. I did get under three, two hours 55 actually in Chicago. Well, you do my 5K as well, Tom, actually. You get on that, actually. I don't like the idea of people seeing the wrong times. I think when you search, because one day on the train, Tom was asking chat GPT if it knew all of our marathon times and it knew mine, but it was wrong.
01:15:19
Speaker
No, that was Bing. That was Bing's AI. Jack GPT's finished in 2019 for the data it's got, so yeah, that's Bing. Oh, okay. Good to know. Jack GPT's a great source of pre-carbon shoes times. Pretty much, yeah. Well, hopefully... Actually, I might try Bing next time, because they might have some more up-to-date running facts.
01:15:39
Speaker
Ben E says, this is probably for you, Nick, because you bang on a ballot more than anyone. Best running belt for long runs. Hit me. I am now. I've made the move to be all about the actual shorts with belts built in and that.
01:15:53
Speaker
That is the future. It's not carbon-shoes. It's being able to take the equivalent of a week's holiday's worth of kit in your shorts without it bouncing. So, yeah. Get the decathlon shorts. I keep saying this. I think it's a bit sexist of decathlon in that the men's shorts are called men's marathon shorts and the women's ones are called Kipron support tights.
01:16:14
Speaker
No mention of marathon, even though they've both got the exact same pocket system designed for marathon running. I'm going to ship them tomorrow. That's the question. Either the mind boggles or it's a bit sexist one way or the other. It's not a good thing properly. I'm with you about that. It's all about the storage shorts, like your Lulu lemons or your on sprinter shorts.
01:16:39
Speaker
We've got a storage shorts video coming, actually. Kieran's editing it at the moment. So that will answer that. But if you're desperate for a belt, then do the hydration flask carrying belt. It's what it was called. They have really long bad names. And that's one I've used for a couple of marathons and that takes everything in it. That's correct. And it's 20 quid. Okay, that was a good answer. Okay, one last one. Bang this out quick.
01:17:02
Speaker
This is from Cody. Hey Runtesters, just wanted to ask your opinion on the on the Cloud Surfer, the new one, presumably, versus the Rebel V3. Both seem like similar shoes of a medium stack, but quite soft midsole. Thanks. Well, Joe, have you used the Rebel? I've not used the Rebel, no. I like the Cloud Surfer. I think if you've got any kind of stability issues, you might want to bear that in mind or any kind of like glute or piriformis issues, because it makes you work a bit harder. But no, I can't compare them to the Rebel on the thread.
01:17:30
Speaker
See, I love the Cloud Surfer a lot. I think it's unbelievably smooth. It's one of the most enjoyable, just mooching around shoes. I've come across in a long time and very different towards ons than before. The Rebel is a bouncy shoe and it's a firmer feeling as a result. And it's probably more geared towards fast running, the Rebel I'd say. It's less comfortable for just plodding. It is pretty versatile. You can do a bit of everything in it.
01:17:50
Speaker
I would almost say they're a lovely little two shoe rotation actually with the surfer rolling around in and the rebel bouncing, but they're both not very stable. They're both kind of soft foams without the stabilizations of plates and all that you get these days. But the way the cloud surfer is not unstable for me just because I'm so in sync with the way it rolls through, it feels like it's perfect. And I don't know if everyone gets into that same kind of sync. So that's the...
01:18:15
Speaker
That's different. I think you're right. I mean, I said in my review video, it's generally the smoothest shoe I've run in, like, as long as I can remember which field. They were using that on marketing material. Whereas, yeah, I said it was, I didn't say it was, yeah, it's the shoe that On says they've been making for the last 10 years. They probably won't use that in the marketing material. But kudos to On. It's the probably most exciting shoe they've released quite some time. And the On Cloudmaster was a pretty big
01:18:42
Speaker
move away from the other shoes. But yeah, it's. Yeah, I really, I just really want to get a load of miles next. I'm really interested to see if that holds up that domino shape and see if it, you know, starts to lose that smoothness and breaks down because it is so soft and the way it compresses really is so exaggerated. But at the moment, loving it.
01:18:59
Speaker
Okay. Well, thanks very much for that. Right.
Upcoming Content Preview
01:19:02
Speaker
Let's round things off now with videos we've got coming up. So we have running shoes, the full list, which I was meant to do in March, but we've been waiting for the Bayfly 3 to come in so we can all test it. Yeah. Kind of need to put that in there. Hopefully we've got marathon essentials, which Nick you're doing. Done.
01:19:20
Speaker
Okay, there we go. Running watches, which Mike's gonna hold out in a moment, so I have to remind him about this. Running headphones is on the list. Cushion shoes I've got on my list, which I completely forgot about, which I'm looking forward to doing. That's a lot of round-ups. That's a lot of work. We're doing all of this? I don't think we're doing all of this. It's in the next few months. It's not like next week. And best half marathons I'm gonna be doing next month or the next few weeks.
01:19:46
Speaker
Cool. Okay. So if you want to contact us, send us an email at team at the runtesters.com or you can Instagram our messages or leave us a comment or like something we've done or watch a video, whatever you fancy doing at the run testers. And then on YouTube, obviously forward slash the run testers. That's it for this episode. Thanks guys. Thank you. Sorry. Oh, they've gone already. Uh, yeah. Um, and we'll catch you listeners next time. Bye.
01:20:17
Speaker
This episode of the podcast was presented by Tom Wheatley, Nick Harris Fry and Jill Bland. The podcast was produced by Tom Wheatley. The music was by Fear of Tights.