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Living Creatively with ADHD: Lineliz Vassallo on Healing, Writing, and Rediscovering Joy
29 Plays4 months ago
On this episode of the Journey Mindfulness Podcast, James talks with the wonderful Lineliz Vassallo, an integrative health specialist, creative writer, ADHDer, & future novelist. She authentically discusses her journey after receiving an ADHD diagnosis as a young woman in college and the challenges she has had to learn to flow through in life, as well as overcoming some of the pitfalls of traditional psychotherapy and medication management. Her courage to share her experience learning how to thrive and find flow with ADHD, and becoming an expert mindfulness teacher along the way, her wisdom, and willingness to be open & vulnerable on her own healing journey on this episode will be valuable to the many people who deal with symptoms of ADHD. May you all find flow and joy in life as we transition into the new year!
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To learn more about Lineliz and her creative writing & Inspiration see below:
Substack: https://substack.com/@3jewels
Socials:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/li.neliz/
Twitter (X): https://x.com/RadiantCalm
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liz-vassallo/
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To learn more about James and Journey Mindfulness:
https://journeymindfulness.com/
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Free Warrior Spirit Guided Meditation:
https://www.journeymindfulness.com/warrior_spirit_meditation
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Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction 8 Week Online Course
(Self-Guided):
https://www.journeymindfulness.com/MBSR
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Guided Self-Hypnosis to Conquer Fear & Doubt (digital download)
https://www.journeymindfulness.com/hypnosis
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Socials:
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Journey_Mindfulness
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mindfulbmore/
Twitter (X): https://x.com/MindfulBmore
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MindfulBmore/
Have an interesting story? Contact me and you can be a guest on the show.
DISCLAIMER: This show is for entertainment purposes only, not intended to replace medical advice. Please seek licensed medical professionals for help.
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Transcript
Introduction of Lenny Vassallo
00:00:12
Speaker
Welcome to the Journey Mindfulness Podcast, where we explore the depths of human experience and the mysteries beyond. And today we have the privilege of speaking with Lenny Vassallo, a truly unique individual navigating life with a vibrant blend of passions. Oh, there you go. How about that?
00:00:36
Speaker
So, Lenny, you are a yogi and self-described ADHD-er and future novelist, a creative driver. Right. Oh, my God. What a beautiful introduction. Yes, I am all of these things. I am discovering every day that ah these are probably the most defining aspects of who I am. So I'm happy with that introduction.
00:01:03
Speaker
Well, I know you as a great mindfulness teacher. like That's you know how we met and you did that for, I'm sure it's still a part of your life with the with focusing and creative writing and getting it to flow. But what are you most passionate about right now?
The Role of Continuous Learning for ADHD
00:01:25
Speaker
I think I'm most passionate about um
00:01:31
Speaker
Whoo. That's a good question, Mae. I would say constant learning. Constant learning. I think that is something that I didn't realize was so important for me to maintain enthusiasm about life and everything. You just like have to be learning. It's not optional. It's not like something I can just assume will happen. Yes, it will happen. You learn things every day, but like,
00:02:01
Speaker
I think learning in the past few years how pivotal it is for my brain to be stimulated so that I don't find stimulation other ways. So like in negative ways because So like I, I love to learn now. I mean, I've always loved to learn, but now I'm like, Oh, I have to set aside time the same way that I set aside time for a workout or meditation. Like I have to set aside time to like be learning new things that are completely alien to me to keep my mind but and So, okay. I mean, that, that sort of makes sense, but it's interesting. I don't know if I've ever heard anyone.
00:02:44
Speaker
put it that way that that's like that's important like that that learning time like being intentional about that yeah yeah now does that have something to do with ADHD or is it just like your curiosity and you I think it's both both and it's like i think um but I think primarily what i I think I've always loved to learn my whole life, and it's always been something that I love to do, but I didn't realize that it was like a necessity.
ADHD and Existential Boredom
00:03:20
Speaker
because of ADHD, because if I'm not stimulating my brain in positive ways, I'm gonna find other sources of dopamine and excitement that may or may not be so beneficial to my wellbeing.
00:03:36
Speaker
yeah Because I think Dr. Ned Hollowell, who's like my favorite expert in the fields, he he's a psychiatrist and he has ADHD, which is why he's also way more believable than a lot of these other little pundits.
00:03:52
Speaker
up yeah But he's, i so I believe the things he says and he's like, like I'm not gonna say that he's like me, but I will say he's like friendly and smiley and bubbly and has like a cute little shiny face. And I feel a kindred spirit in him. um But anyway, he um he talks about how when you have ADHD, it's like you're always itching to feel alive.
00:04:23
Speaker
And you're seeking experiences that give you that sense of aliveness. so that's And I know that to be so true in my own experience because when I want to feel alive, like when i'm and boredom is not the boredom.
00:04:43
Speaker
the but I would say the ADHD boredom in my experience is not the boredom that other people feel. It's like an existential boredom. I was like... I need to do something intense to feel alive right now. And so Ergo, my move to Mexico in 2020, and other such random decisions from out of the blue that were just like, who who thought that through? Not me. That was impulse. employee yeah But it I mean, in that sense, it's like, I wouldn't say those things were negative choices.
00:05:21
Speaker
you know, that's debatable. But the fact that I felt so strongly that I needed to feel alive because I wasn't feeling alive in the board state that I was in was that I've always been led by those, I've been pulled by those feelings of needing to be alive and and and I follow them and I go with them. I know and I admire the,
00:05:52
Speaker
and You know, I feel like there's a sense. I'm the one hand you're talking about, okay, this existential boredom and like, I want to like crawl out of my skin, but then it's like.
00:06:04
Speaker
I have the idea to move or the impulse to move and maybe I don't think things through, but I also have this unique sense of adventure and I'm willing to go on it. So it's, I don't know, it's like a weird balance. Like I don't, yeah it's, we either say it like it's bad or good or. Right, exactly. And that's, I think what Dr. Hollow points to and what I mean,
00:06:31
Speaker
you know beginning to learn for myself is that that itch is great. That itch is it is what makes Simone Biles do gymnastics the way that she does. And Michael Phelps, that itch is what made him swim the way that he did. like That itch to feel alive will make can make you very competitive, can make you very adventurous, can make you very entrepreneurial.
00:06:52
Speaker
But that same itch can also make you very likely to become addicted to alcohol, to drugs. It could also make you somebody who gets high off of crime and gambling.
Channeling ADHD Impulses
00:07:05
Speaker
It's about recognizing that that itch is real and you consciously directing it to the best of your ability to things that are going to be good for you versus Because yeah, the move to Mexico, I think was, you know, like positive and beneficial. But there were also times in my, like, my past where I've been addicted to alcohol. And
00:07:31
Speaker
um
00:07:34
Speaker
not like it's it's like I wasn't even drinking it because I was like sad or or the way like you know stereotypical images of like a alcoholic in a bar like drinking their solace away it was really just because when I drank I felt more alive I felt like You know, like, and I like feeling that way. So I would chase those things that make me feel that way, which is why I've been able to stick, ah stick to working out for so many years, because I love the high. I love that, that feeling of the aliveness that I get. So like, as long as I'm chasing the right things with that itch, it's good. Um, yeah I feel like there is, there was a question I had where it's like, what are,
00:08:22
Speaker
the secret superpowers of ADHD, but I feel like, and I don't know if if if that framing is offensive or not, but like. No, I mean, well, maybe some people might be, but I like it. You could say the gifts.
00:08:35
Speaker
The gifts of ADHD. I think there are superpowers though too. I think, yeah, that spirit of adventure for sure is ah is a gift I appreciate. And yeah, like so many people talk, I'm not saying this to sound fabulous, but so many people in my and my life have told me that they admire me. I'm like, for what? For doing ridiculous things?
00:08:58
Speaker
ah You know what I mean for making, but you know, like moving to China, living in all these different places that I've moved to to live on without knowing anyone anywhere around me or knowing the language or like different and adventures I've taken myself on just because. because ah And so i yeah I think that I think definitely a spirit of adventure, curiosity for sure is a ah strength.
00:09:25
Speaker
um What about like creativity in your writing? Yeah, creativity is a huge one. It's like your brain connects things from all the different regions and I don't even know how to explain it, but it's like one of our strengths, you know and I guess under the umbrella of creativity is ah the ability to improvise.
00:09:49
Speaker
And like improvising really well, like, because like the ideas just come, they just come, they just come. And so I think endless ideas is a benefit, yeah if you know, as long as they're ideas and that endless anxieties or endless anxious thoughts, you know, and that's another reason why you have to be really anxious about directing the thinking that you're doing.
00:10:15
Speaker
um
00:10:19
Speaker
ah improvisation for sure. i think are Anything creative, art, acting, dancing, athletics. um I'm becoming more and more aware of like having more bodily intelligence than I have ever been previously aware of. like just more like Maybe I'm more of a kinesthetic learner than I thought before, you know than than I was ever taught to understand.
00:10:48
Speaker
like i wonder I wonder how much more I would have learned in school if they really catered to those different learning styles. like ah You said kinesthetic, like tactile? like just Yeah, like like doing the thing to learn what you're doing. like the way that like In our mindfulness training, like instead of like sitting and talking about theory all day, it's like, but just go teach mindfulness to this group with what you've learned. and You learn more usually from physically doing it than just sitting around reading about it, talking about it, listening to lectures, et cetera. Sure. So that the experiential type learning. Yeah.
Mindfulness and ADHD
00:11:29
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, that's another thing, by the way, another strength of ADHD, which is probably why I got so fixated on mindfulness is because I was good at it. So people with ADHD are also very much resident.
00:11:46
Speaker
to the extent that we don't have very much future awareness and spoke like I feel like I fell into the lap of mindfulness and because I felt like, oh, these are my people. These are people who appreciate the snow flurries that are falling right now and are feeling the magic of it. But that was natural to me before learning to appreciate it and to see it and to notice it. But many people will walk by this flurry that's happening right now and not care, not notice it, not enjoy it, not feel it, not appreciate it.
00:12:26
Speaker
and mindfulness taught me that this was a skill that other people needed to be taught. And you were already good at. Yeah, and so I think that's why I liked it too because having ADHD, there were so many things that I wasn't good at. So to find something that I was good at naturally without trying was was like, right, let me do this.
00:12:52
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. you you Yeah. You discover something, you know, that it puts a name or a label in the technique to something that you're already doing well. Yeah. It's attractive. Mm hmm. So those are some of the these the or creative powers of ADHD. Yeah. Yep. Hyper focus is also can be. There's a lot of like two sides. I would say there's probably like a good and a bad for each. Not bad. All of these gifts are gifts if you learn to direct them for your benefit.
00:13:39
Speaker
i this So for example, if I stay present all the time, the way I had been for like a decade without ever thinking about my future, then you don't do things like save money, et cetera, et cetera, because in your mind, you'll be fine. Cause the next moment will be the present moment. And at this moment it's okay. And then the next one was okay. So like that kind of thinking and without having like this constant future awareness is can be detrimental. So it's like learning to appreciate the gifts of it, but also recognizing that.
00:14:13
Speaker
you need to remind yourself that there's a tomorrow, that there are things you need to prepare or like for all of them like hyper focus can be great like the fact that I could be excited about a topic and like read 10 books about it and you know like get all jazzed about it is great but if I should be applying to jobs and preparing for interviews, then that hyper-focus isn't great because that's unrelated to the job search that should be the priority. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. okay but Priorities get out of whack. like the Is that i mean like ah the part of your brain, that salience network where you're like, okay, this is the most important thing. This is not as important. Right. Well, and well a challenge that is maybe not a gift of ADHD is
00:15:06
Speaker
the inability to prioritize. Because in your mind, you have like an interest-based nervous system. In your mind, the thing you're interested in right now is the most important thing. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I should get a job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I should do this. I should do that. But I really want to learn more about turtle. like then Sorry, I got distracted. I was looking at the snowflakes.
00:15:38
Speaker
So how do you.
00:15:44
Speaker
There's also I just want to make mention to like, how do you characterize the ADHD because there's also. Like we're talking to someone about talking to you and I'm like, yeah we're talking about like trauma and like childhood and and the impact that that can have too. And just, I think we don't always, I don't know, maybe it is. Like I feel like that's not talked about a lot, but maybe. Right.
ADHD, Trauma, and Diagnosis
00:16:14
Speaker
Well, yeah, actually a little, not now like I'm talking about someone who knows everything about the cutting edge of research, but
00:16:22
Speaker
From what I've gathered the past few years, a lot of the research has pointed to ADHD being a result of childhood trauma, or being you know like a neurological, you know I don't know what the word might be, but a neurological difference that happens because of childhood trauma. And I feel like that, I could see that being 100,000% the case. and and And I don't think,
00:16:51
Speaker
I feel like, how do I say this? I don't think I care anymore so much what the root causes or what the name of it is. So long as there are, there's like a recognition of there are people who live with this experience and then this is how to live better given this experience that you live with. Yeah. What, um,
00:17:23
Speaker
When did you like how long have you known? Like, when did that realization like was it when you started learning about mindfulness or when did you kind of realize that these were challenge challenges, like that you symptoms that you were dealing with? If you would? Funny part him. Let's hear it. I okay.
00:17:50
Speaker
So I was given a diagnosis when I was like 22, but I felt skeptical. Yeah. Because that the only thing I had to do was fill out like a little quiz.
00:18:07
Speaker
um Like fill out like. Or some the little meds. Like a rinky dink little quiz. And then the psychiatrist was like, here, here's focal in. And I'm like, OK.
00:18:18
Speaker
um And I had also been speaking to like a life coach from California at the time. This is what was happening. Let me backtrack. When I was around 22, 23, this is like after I came back from China. I was teaching English over there and I came back and I didn't know what to do with my life.
00:18:38
Speaker
I don't know, there's so many directions I could go. And... As many of us were. and um Exactly. And this coach was like, oh no girl, you sound like you have ADHD to me. I guess because whenever I was on the phone, where I was giving her like a thousand different ideas for what I could do.
00:18:56
Speaker
He's like, your mind is moveed all over the place. She's like, me maybe that's something you should look into or you know go see someone to see if that might be the case. to If so, it could be helpful to learn how to manage that. because as She was a therapist, she was a coach. ah so Anyway, i then I went to see my mom's psychiatrist because she already had a history but with this guy, so she trusted him. and She's like, well, why don't we go see him? and I saw him and he's like, yeah It's like, is your room passing? Yeah. Do you like our? Yeah. Is it hard to focus? Yeah. Okay. I felt this is BS. Like I don't, whatever, but I'll try the medicine. Cause like, I want to, I want to be able to do things. So let's try it. but So I tried the medication.
00:19:46
Speaker
And I was like a different, like I love that I could focus, I could read, I could write papers. Like I really don't know how I got through college. I got through college through charisma, by the way, which is another gift of ADHD. Because I would just say to my professors, I didn't write my paper.
00:20:05
Speaker
don't you want me to have another week to do it? And nine out of 10 of them were okay with that. So like, because I was a fun person in class and appreciated them, I always got extensions or whatever, but it wasn't because I was always getting things in on time. It was because of the Jedi Matrix. Yeah, I don't know, whatever it is I have. I don't know. I went to ah i In all of this, i and because I was so motivated all of a sudden, I applied to graduate school and I got in and I started going to graduate school. One month after taking this medication, I was enrolled at UCAN and like doing graduate work and feeling important. like I made all the great decisions, thank God for this medication, blah, blah, blah. But I hadn't
00:21:00
Speaker
gone to like therapy to like understand what ADHD was or like I didn't do anything besides take the medicine and what's that thing like pills don't teach skills kind of situation and then also no one told me and I also didn't bother to read the side effects of medication so I didn't know what to expect and there wasn't there Honestly, at that time, wasn't well, there wasn't social media and there wasn't i mean it was Facebook, but it wasn't like Facebook now. like It was just people posting their party pictures. It wasn't like anyone was posting informational content, like ADHD stuff, the way you see all over the internet now. So like I wasn't getting information from any other sources either.
00:21:50
Speaker
um But the only thing I did here was that you could get off of medication on the weekends or on breaks. Like you still only take it when you need it kind of thing. So I think we had like a after the summer semester, we had like a break before fall semester. So I stopped taking medication. And when I did that, I became a corpse.
Medication Side Effects and Identity Crisis
00:22:12
Speaker
I could not move, could not get out of bed for a whole week. I was like,
00:22:17
Speaker
so depressed, i couldn't i I couldn't eat, I couldn't do anything. with was like The calm down from the medication was so severe. I'm like, this is horrible. And then that that whole spiral made me question, like what am I even doing in graduate school? Because all of those decisions were made under this medication. Is that who I really am? It made me question so much.
00:22:42
Speaker
um And it also jacked my nervous system up so much that I was having emotions I never had before, like extreme sadness, extreme anger, like just all these extremes that I was like unable to handle. So long story short, I withdrew from the program and moved to Miami.
00:23:12
Speaker
yeah Do you feel like the medication in your opinion was like in like and inhibiting those emotions? No, I think it was causing them. yeah because ah ok causing like because eight well i don't know The only way I can think it to describe it is that it jacks up your nervous system so that you're much more reactive and much more emotional about everything.
00:23:42
Speaker
All right, so then that comes out right before and then you moved to Miami. Yes.
Lifestyle Changes Over Medication
00:23:48
Speaker
And then I started going to the therapy. Excuse me. And. and
00:23:58
Speaker
I love my therapist. She gave me really wise counsel. And when I was seeing her, I was taking, I think I was, I had switched from focal in because of that bad experience. I was taking now like well Butrin and a little bit of Adderall, I think.
00:24:14
Speaker
Um, but I wanted to get off of both of them. And I told her and she was a health psychologist. So she was very much wanting me to get off of them too. Okay. And she was like, she was the one that was like, I need you to go work out. I need you to do yoga. I need you to go eat happy. And I need you to take a mind for this class. So yeah, so she was like very directive. Like these are things and then her and to her credit, she did not tolerate me complaining about the symptoms or about you know what challenges I was having. like She was just giving me solutions after solutions, which was very helpful and is what I needed at the time. However, she didn't really
00:25:06
Speaker
maybe she didn't know as much about ADHD, because again, it wasn't as well known in that time, especially in women. I think she understood that ADHD existed, but for her, it was just a matter of learning how to focus and calm down, which is why she sent me to work out, to eat healthy, to do yoga, whatever. So I don't think that she really,
00:25:31
Speaker
I know she didn't really give me like ADHD specific life skills to develop outside of these very great skills that I didn't develop that were very beneficial for ADHD. There wasn't like a conscious, you have ADHD, these are your problems. These are the things you need to be aware of and working on. So I kind of lost awareness that I had ADHD, which was again, a good thing because it made me believe in myself, not believe that it had all these limitations.
00:26:03
Speaker
But it made me forget that I do have some limitations that I need to learn how to work with. um And so, you know, after that, I just was like, I was off the meds and I was doing yoga and doing meditation and I was kind of cutting for 10 years or more, maybe Let's say up until about 2018. I was like, living fine and dandy. And now there's some research and hearing which would make sense for what I experienced, but there's some research I've been hearing lately about how um when women hit 35 women with
00:26:44
Speaker
Well, all women, when they hit about 35, they get you know all these hormonal changes.
Hormonal Changes and ADHD in Women
00:26:49
Speaker
But when these hormonal changes happen, when you have ADHD, your ADHD turns into a wildebeest.
00:26:56
Speaker
and This I did not know. Remember, I had forgotten that I had aged. I haven't been doing really any too much of anything conscious to manage it. Like, I've been surviving, but I hadn't, you know, really developed a lot of the skills needed to be an adult on the planet.
00:27:18
Speaker
um and And so at some point I started drinking to to to fill the,
00:27:31
Speaker
like I start, and like I lost, I don't know how to explain it. and It was almost like I got bored with everything. And I also couldn't get myself to do the things that I wanted to do even though they were things that I really wanted to do. Like like I had this passion to wanna write and I sit down and I can't write.
00:27:48
Speaker
So just like feeling stuck or out would I mean, not able to take action, but was is that procrastination or is it something different? No, it's different because procrastination is when you want to do something but emotionally.
00:28:07
Speaker
you don't do it, like because of an emotion like, and this but I can't stand doing bills, I'm not gonna do it. So it's like, because of a negative emotion, you don't do something. It's generally what procrastination is. And then ADHD paralysis is like, I wanna do this thing, really wanna do it. It's actually something I want to do. And I sit down to do it and I have a cognitive block. Like it's it's not emotional, it's cognitive. Like I just can't,
00:28:37
Speaker
its It's very hard to imagine when you haven't experienced it, but it really, the only thing that would get me past it would be taking like a shot of a Carti or shot of whiskey and then suddenly I can write.
00:28:51
Speaker
uh okay so you learned to get over it that way but no but i and i appreciate your your candidness but like you know a lot of people are gonna hear this and i think there's a lot of you know it's helpful to hear like what you know what are the challenges that you struggle with and like how do you work with those like you know as someone who writes specifically about this issue Yeah. Because that's not something like i I could maybe relate to. Like, what do you mean you can't do it? Like, I don't get it.
Overcoming ADHD Paralysis
00:29:25
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. There's a channel called How To ADHD on YouTube, and she describes it as... Wow, there's so many different ways that it's that it's described, but she describes it as like a wall.
00:29:44
Speaker
Uh, like a wall that you just can't get yourself to get over. Like you've seen it, but it's not, you're not getting over that wall. Yeah. It's, and it's surreal because, and then when you talk to anyone about it.
00:29:59
Speaker
No one gets it. Everyone's like, what do you mean? But what do you mean you can't do it? and I can't do it. When I tell you I tried everything, I'd go to a library, I'd go to a cafe, I moved to a town in Mexico known for writing, like and and extreme I things to get my myself to write.
00:30:20
Speaker
I mean, it's just beginning, it's just started to happen over the past couple of years, but that's thanks to learning a lot of new skills and thanks to a little bit of medication that I don't know if I want to stay on forever, but it has been really helpful. And so I may just stay,
00:30:44
Speaker
let's stay, or I may not, but I, you know, it's,
00:30:51
Speaker
not like i ah anyway Anyway, it's so hard to explain. Who has ADHD and is listening will know what I mean when you're just like, you feel like, why can't I do this? What is going on?
00:31:10
Speaker
So how did you start as a creative person who wanted to write, who was having a block with that? How did you start? Like what skills did you start to learn where it started to shift that for you? Well, one great question.
00:31:29
Speaker
Wow, ah I think it's been a variety of things. and One is the learning that learning about writing. ah Like, hello, sometimes it's helpful to have a prompt. I was a creative writing teacher in a high school for a couple of years and it this still didn't occur to me because Who knows why? Maybe because memory, I don't know. But just learning that um all these little tricks that writers use, such as having a prompt, because if there's a prompt, you can respond to a prompt. Little things like that. um Watching, I think I watched a lot of documentaries about writers i and and learned, like what did they write about?
00:32:23
Speaker
and like Um, I also learned these amazing skills from this woman on Instagram. What's her name? Her name is ADHD with Jenna Free. And she, she's like, I went to a group with her and it was like five weeks of really valuable mind shifting education in
00:32:56
Speaker
in normalizing everything that I thought was just like insanity. But not that I ever thought, I never thought I was insane, but the way people would look at me when I would describe what I was experiencing, maybe like you're looking at me right now. No, I, I'm laughing. There was some post you had where it was like saying in the membrane,
00:33:20
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, I never felt like I was crazy. But like, when people would look at me funny, because of the experience that I'd had and would try to explain to them, and they just couldn't get it, I'm like, well, maybe. um But I had this book, also, it's called The Anti-Planner. It's amazing. And it's a book of just like nonstop strategies. And it talks about like the five main emotions you have have with ADHD are I feel like I should go over there and get it so I don't misquote. Dude. I'm gonna get it. I also saw you had an Isabel Allende quote that was kind of an interesting.
Incorporating Storytelling Techniques
00:34:09
Speaker
Yes, Isabel. I'm taking a class with her right now. I love her. Oh, you actually are taking a class with her?
00:34:16
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, not really, like she has an on-demand class that I'm taking. Oh, okay, okay. Stuck, these are, okay, these are literally the main emotions that are always felt. And you open this book and you identify which of these am I feeling right now? Stuck, overwhelmed, unmotivated, disorganized, or discouraged.
00:34:45
Speaker
And then you, yeah, those are the five main things. I'm just thinking of. OK, that's going to hit people. That's going to land. Repeat, repeat, repeat of the overwhelmed, unmotivated, disorganized and discouraged. And then once you get in there, by the way, people, I apologize if my voice is very screechy today. I ran earlier this afternoon, so I'm very hyped.
00:35:15
Speaker
hyper right now. So maybe I should tone it down. You'll be like, like having more grounded presence on this podcast because I feel like I'm all the way up here. Very academic and monotone channel. that
00:35:31
Speaker
hipre Great, great, great you. how can so but Stuck, under stuck. When you get to stuck, then you have like different sub chapters, which will also resonate. Difficulty getting started. Indecisive. Perfectionistic. Distracted. Any problem I have, I just opened this book.
00:35:53
Speaker
Um, and literally, and there's a solution for everything because then under overwhelmed, it's intimidated, over committed, panic, burnt out. What do you do? Unmotivated, lacking accountability. That was one of the things that was my problem. You know, I was my own boss for like, I don't know how many years, but who am I being accountable to? You know, like.
00:36:17
Speaker
and I anyway, i'm not I'm not gonna say too much about that, but there needs to, like, that's another thing. This whole, this whole um the things that about ADHD that are great, but that are also like, you have this entrepreneurial spirit and these ideas and this zest to create and to make changes in the world and blah, blah, blah.
00:36:45
Speaker
But then once you start doing it, there's like, who's holding you accountable? Because if nobody is like. So part part of the learning is OK, peace. I got to take a look at. Right, right. So like I still within me have this great desire to be entrepreneurial and blah, blah, blah. But at the same time, I know that. All by myself, without like ah an amazing system in place,
00:37:15
Speaker
I don't want to go, I don't want to end up down the same road as before. Like, i I feel like I would prefer if I were to be entrepreneurial again, to be like in a team or have, you know, at least have some people to be accountable to. Because I'm very relaxed with myself. Yeah. You know? Like you have to be like tethered so you don't go off too far. ah Exactly. In some way. Yeah. Interesting. Who wrote that book? This queen!
00:37:45
Speaker
Yeah. I think every therapist should have this book because I feel like, and and I'm speaking to you, I'm speaking to the various therapists I've met in my life who have not been able to guide me around ADHD because they didn't know. Like they just have like a basic textbook knowledge of, oh, scabbing attention can't sit still when it's so much deeper than that. I want to know because I'm going to go buy the book.
00:38:08
Speaker
and at first on The Anti-Planner, How to Get Shit Done When You Don't Feel Like It, created by Danny Donovan. Okay. Yeah. ah The cover looks very 80. Yeah, it's phenomenal. Really, I feel like this alone, like if somebody had given me this book five years ago, I might not have had to go through all the drama.
00:38:38
Speaker
AA meetings, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. You know what I mean? But you know what? I wouldn't have a story to write about when I become a future novelist. So I know. Right. Like all it was. You got to be careful. Right. Like sometimes you look back and it's like, I can't believe I did that. but Or, you know, I caution people when they're like, well, I regret this. I'm like, but yeah, but that's all part of your story. Right. Like it's all yeah makes it interesting.
00:39:06
Speaker
and like you know like how uninteresting would it be if everything went right or whatever you thought was right right that's true yeah I mean what kind of adventure would you write about right exactly yeah yeah right it's true true from What is giving you to your you have this blog this sub stack which and I'll I'll share the links but you also had some other interesting resources to look like a journal or something on
00:39:42
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
Innovative Mindfulness Practices
00:39:43
Speaker
So I put a meditation journal up because here's another thing I found out, which no one in the mindfulness community ever talks about. If I ever read, if I were to ever re-answer, I'd have a lot of things to say. And one of them is that i
00:40:11
Speaker
You, I mean, it's not that teachers haven't said this, but I think there's a lot of times you hear repeated in the mindfulness world. Oh, Isn't, you know, like there's all this kind of like gaslighting yourself.
00:40:32
Speaker
the board, which maybe is okay if you don't have ADHD, but if you have ADHD and you are feeling stale and stuck and bored, it's actually a real problem that you actually do need to do something about and not sit around and question and become curious and exploratory about.
00:40:49
Speaker
because, kind let me tell you why, because I did that. Because for years, I would say mindful, not that it stopped working for me, but that it was no longer of much benefit to me. Or like, I could meditate for an hour, I could do this, I could do that. And I i just felt like, shit, like not that you're doing it to feel better, but it wasn't i was it wasn't helping me in any way.
00:41:15
Speaker
Like it's weird and it was shocking to me and I didn't believe it. So I kept doing it. a And I kept doing it and, you know, like trying to be more curious, like, you know, trying to like, what is this boredom? What is it? And I kept doing that instead of my dad kept telling me, just do something else. Try a different kind of meditation. Like, yeah.
00:41:39
Speaker
mindfulness like Stop Stop forcing yourself to do something just because you have your identity wrapped up in that or because you think you should or you need to to be teaching. But that's why I told her, I'm teaching MBSR classes. I cannot be doing this. like That's like the core teaching. is like You have to be practicing yourself in order to be offering this to others. But when I would practice myself, I would want to punch the window.
00:42:02
Speaker
and but
00:42:06
Speaker
and it's like i i kept And my dad kept telling me, try something else, try something else. But I'm like, no, no, no. I need to stay doing mindfulness because I'm teaching it. I have to stay aligned, blah, blah, blah. So I was doing it to my own detriment. like I mean, so where like I was just observing the boredom, observing.
00:42:28
Speaker
and The reality is, and many mindfulness teachers do say this, like you need to be mindful of when a meditation is no longer serving you and you know try a different approach, blah, blah, blah. ah So I was doing that, but I was doing that all under the umbrella of mindfulness. So like oh ah you know I'm tired of the body scan. I'm going to do a breath. oh that I can do that anymore. I'm going to do compassion. I can do that anymore. so But I was still doing it all under the same mindfulness umbrella. Yeah.
00:42:59
Speaker
Then my dad's like, oh, there's all these other things you could do. There's like dual dispenser and there's creative visualization and there's, you know, the pops like try something else.
00:43:11
Speaker
Anyway, long story short, I have not been doing much mindfulness. I've been doing a lot of yoga and doing a lot of creative visualization. And the creative visualization, I believe, is what has given me like a new rebirth in the past couple months.
00:43:32
Speaker
Like it's fascinating how stagnant I felt for years because I kept forcing myself to stay in this mindful space. And now that I'm doing this conscious creative visualizing, like letting my brain do what it does naturally, like allowing it and like just letting myself imagine these great things. And then I'm like.
00:43:54
Speaker
suddenly the world opens up if i'm ah and I'm alive again, you know? So what is, and what do you, is that prompt, like guided or what is it just you giving yourself like creative space to like exercise your imagination? It's both, both. Like I've been listening to some ah YouTube, this lady named Jess Shepard, she's got some really cool, like just like,
00:44:19
Speaker
awesome journeys like she gives you like all these descriptions to imagine like these places or these planets like things that maybe I would scoff at like a former version of myself would be like oh what is that? Did you say planets? Yeah planets like underwater like just cool like adventures and but then eventually you're getting into your subconscious And so I've been having a lot of interesting experiences with that. that's ah like a Okay. I mean, this is like in my sort of metaphysical realm of like astral traveling and like... It's been really great.
00:45:01
Speaker
and and like i So my mom passed recently and in these journeys that I've been taking, I've been meeting her and she's been giving me messages. So that's been really beautiful too. I am touched that you would share that. That's really interesting to me. That is something that I've heard from other people that they do.
00:45:25
Speaker
name Yeah. And I know that that's, that's fresh, but that is, you know, that is one of the things that is talked about is that you have, um, I was listening to a meditation actually before we got on, but it's just unlocking your, your hidden abilities, but it's essentially like you, like you sharing that. I know that that happens. Mm-hmm.
00:45:53
Speaker
But I'm impressed that you shared it because that's interesting.
Metaphysical Experiences and Writing Inspiration
00:45:57
Speaker
And for people to maybe hear that have never heard of that, that, you know, the other side ah is is there and accessible. Yeah. Wow. Fantastic.
00:46:12
Speaker
ah Well, I'm sure there's a whole lot more to talk about. My goodness. Scratch the surface. What are you?
00:46:22
Speaker
What are you writing about? like what are What is kind of making you excited right now in your world? ah um I'm excited about writing daily, being consistent about it. But a skill for ADHD? Yes. One of the things that I hear said a lot, it's similar to what we say in Mindfulness, where it's not about thing on the breath all the time, but it's about the return. It was like maybe not about so much about being consistent, but about having a sense of continuity. Like if i you know you miss a day, then okay, just come right back the next day. You miss a day, okay, come back the next day.
00:47:11
Speaker
um
00:47:14
Speaker
Because I had that forgiving attitude or that more kaizen approach, like that incremental take it a little bit at a time and approach to habit formation. Yeah, the Japanese like, yeah. ah Yeah, like, yeah, like I, so I've been able to get myself to do a lot of things consistently. The the one that's been hard,
00:47:42
Speaker
as much as I've been wanting to do it and have been, you know, so focused on it the past few years, have been writing because the reward isn't as immediate. It's like, you know, like if you do a workout, you feel the reward like 10, 15 minutes into it. Like you're already feeling strong and excited and pumped up, you know, like there's an immediate reward. There's immediate reward to a lot of things that i do consistently you knowre brushing your teeth that you know taking shower is immediate you feel fresh you feel good ah
00:48:13
Speaker
seeing
00:48:16
Speaker
yes
00:48:18
Speaker
It depends. Some days you might feel a reward. Some days you don't. Some days it's just like you got it done. But even right you know even without ADHD, reading writers talk ah write about or talk about the act of writing, it seems like it really just is something that you just have to do all the time, every you know every day, because You never know how you're going to feel at the end. You're never you like, you never know what's going to come out of you that day. you don't You don't know if you're going to feel a reward. You might write the shittiest thing of your life and it'd be worthless and you not do anything with it. But the point is that you have to get yourself in that act of just doing it daily. Because I find, at least in my experience, it's the easiest habit to fall off of because there's not that constant sense of reinforcement the way there is with other things.
00:49:14
Speaker
At least for me. I don't get a rush or a high after I'm done writing for the day. Sometimes I get a little sparkle here and there, but it's not every time. wow
00:49:29
Speaker
But I do get into a ah fun little flow state in the middle of it, which is you know gratifying. But it's it's not the full body endorphin flush.
00:49:42
Speaker
that that reinforces your workout the next day, if that makes sense. Yeah. Interesting. So my my my paint in my curiosity. Yeah.
00:49:53
Speaker
hey I want, if you don't mind, and if you do, it's not a problem. But opening the door to what you said, my my metaphysical curiosity going back, when souls pass, you're not in this this life, right? So there's there's a difference. in in people often share that it's surprising to them that in the difference ah of the person, right? Like the soul in the sense of those. But what
00:50:28
Speaker
if you if there's something you could share has been a message that perhaps your mom or that you've gotten that has been helpful or inspiring to you in some way. Thank you for asking that that's beautiful well she's been the one that's really been encouraging me to write like in her life she did but like Then she passed. And but believe you, me, I have many more important things in life that to the world would seem what I should be focusing on. like These are the things you should be focusing on because of A, B, C, D, E, F, G. But my mom has been showing up to tell me, all those things are going to work themselves out. What you need to focus on is writing.
00:51:18
Speaker
and you need to do it. And like she saw like a few weeks ago, she you told me I needed to say to like take this class that I had been thinking about. So I signed up. like I gave myself permission. I'd been holding back. And she's just like, take it. And um what else did she say?
00:51:43
Speaker
Gosh, it's all been related to staying committed to this to this project and to this writing, yeah like whether it's symbolically or or her actual words.
00:51:54
Speaker
um That's really beautiful.
00:52:00
Speaker
It's, uh, you know, ah one of the benefits to being a therapist is people share their stories of their interactions with the other side. And so I've been hearing them for years, but in a clinical setting, it's, it's not something that, you know, is encouraged or, you know, it's like, well, that doesn't, you know what I mean? Like it's,
00:52:26
Speaker
We're science, even though it's like, whoa, this is science and you should be curious about what's going on here. right we hey So it's in this this metaphysical realm, but it's utterly fascinating. but ah really amazing that your mom is encouraging you to kind of like, stay focused on something that maybe society and other pressures externally are telling you are not, you know, these are more important than that, but kind of keeping you on track with that.
00:52:59
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. So this future, is it going to be a novel? What are you? What are you going to write? The grand mystery, because like Isabelle Gende said in that quote I shared, she said, you should write the book that you would like to read or like write the kind of book that you like to read, which makes the most sense.
Aspiring Adventure Memoir Author
00:53:23
Speaker
Right.
00:53:23
Speaker
Um, and I feel like there are two kinds of books that I like to read. I like to read like self-help books. And I also like to read like adventures.
00:53:40
Speaker
where the person is coming to a great spiritual understanding or a great, like the alchemist or, um, like eat, pray, love or wild where there's like, this is pretty much like the hero's journey, but through like, you know,
00:54:01
Speaker
these various things until they get to like their dream or some beautiful lesson. So I feel like a part, I really would love to write some kind of adventure story. um but at the state But at the same time had to be like a memoir. So Ypres Love is actually a memoir that is like an adventure and so is Wild where she's like hiking through the Pacific Rim, what is it? Pacific Trail?
00:54:29
Speaker
Like, you know, all the way up California through the mountains by myself. I see photos of it. Yeah. So that book is a memoir too, but it's like an adventure. Um, so I, I dearly like to write something like that, but I don't know the first thing about like storytelling in that sense. I feel like if I wanted to just get something done, I probably could write a self-help book within the next few months and that'd be easy.
00:55:00
Speaker
i mean Or like, you know, one of those 100 or 365 inspirational thoughts a day kind of books where you write a reflection every day. I feel like that would be easy and I would like to do something like that. But that doesn't excite me as much as the idea of creating this journey, this memoir-esque kind of journey. So I think I'm leaning more towards that, even though it feels more impossible because I really don't know the first thing about what I'm doing in that sense. Well, if your mom has anything to do with it, you'll figure it out. Amen.
00:55:42
Speaker
Lenny, I know you are big on inspiration and inspiring others. ah What piece of advice would you give to other women who who are going through some of the stuff that you've gone through to help, you know, I don't know, inspire them, you know, if they're feeling stuck or. Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:14
Speaker
Well,
00:56:18
Speaker
it's a great question. fun would i What advice would I give? be I think I would learn more about ADHD because I think also there's a lot of people that are kind of like self-diagnosing based on what they see on the internet.
00:56:42
Speaker
but and and because of like TikToks or whatever reels, but then they're not taking it a step further to really learn, maybe really understand. So I think whether you have ADHD or not, if the content that you're reading or you're seeing online is resonating so deeply within you, then you really, it would be home to you.
00:57:13
Speaker
to go learn more about ADHD and and um really start applying those skills to your life. Because whether you have it or you don't, the skills are going to be helpful.
00:57:27
Speaker
you know ah
00:57:30
Speaker
There's a ah mindfulness teacher out there who
00:57:34
Speaker
I love him. I think he's great. And I've always thought he's great. He's even greater now because he is coming out of hiding. He's coming out of the ADHD closet. Yes, yes. he The only reason I knew he had ADHD like 10 years ago was because I think I read it in one of his, I don't know if I read it in a book or he mentioned it, but it's not like something he's known for. And it's not definitely not what he leads with.
00:58:03
Speaker
But he like casually mentioned it, or I maybe asked a question about it. And he gave a response that made me feel like he knew what he was talking about. i mean I honestly don't remember what it was. But all I know is that since that moment, I have looked up to him and like been like, wow, there is someone else in this world who has this. So Mark Coleman, um the British guy, the handsome British guy.
00:58:32
Speaker
yeah Number one, the voice of British Airways mindfulness as ADHD. He really does the guided meditation for British Airways. Is he like the voice of one of the apps or something too? I think so. I mean, he's a really big deal. And he just for the first time, like a month ago, like ah I just saw his post like a week or two ago, he held a mindfulness and compassion retreat for ADHD.
00:59:03
Speaker
And I'm like, Oh, i well, here we go. So anyway, I think the biggest thing is ah learning about it, educating yourself. I because I think my big mistake was like not continually learning about it because like at like I mentioned before like after I got my diagnosis I'm like oh okay and then I didn't really consciously place too much attention in learning all of what it entails it's so much more than what you see in social media it's so much more than these little snippets of information like if you really dive into you know some of these books you will
00:59:47
Speaker
feels so liberated and it will help you so much. So I would say the first thing to do is to ah learn more. Like the time you would normally be scrolling through TikToks that give you information about ADC, just like read the anti-planner. Go through the anti-planner. I'm buying the book. Yeah, yeah like just there's so many. Yeah, let's learn about it and And apply the skills to, you know, like if you want to see it, get a diagnosis, that's fine. But even if you don't, and even if you don't have ADHD, I think the skills apply to anyone in this like high tech world where like attention is very limited, et cetera, like.
01:00:31
Speaker
There's so much said about how like you know like everyone has a little ADHD or blah, blah, blah, or like people's attention spans are kind of minimizing now. But one of the things ned holwell says Dr. Ned says is that ADHD isn't a deficit of attention. he's like it has had a bad, ADHD has had bad PR, bad public image for like the past 20 years, because it should be called something else. He said this should be called VAST, which I forget what the acronym stands for, but oh, variable attention stimulus trait, variable attention stimulus trait. Okay.
01:01:15
Speaker
So because ADHD people can pay attention, yeah we the challenge is that we pay attention to too much and we don't know how to prioritize what ah what we should be paying the most attention to.
01:01:30
Speaker
Interesting I I wonder and feeling that You know like these things are I think I personally think a lot of things are going to change Yeah, that being one of them right and like how yeah how it's treated how maybe how we you know the symptom ology and just the education and Training, you know, I don't think it's it's should be always be an evolving thing. But yeah well that is very hopeful advice to give and what's that? And the other thing I want to say is don't listen to the haters because there is a doctor out there. I don't even remember his name because he's so negative. But there are a lot of negative Nancy's that are just just talking about
01:02:28
Speaker
ADHD is like the worst thing ever and how it limits you in this way and that way. And like if you listen to these people or you follow some of these accounts that are just focusing on the negative or just focusing on the funny, which by the way, extensive humor is an ADHD positive.
01:02:51
Speaker
But if you're only just poking fun of yourself or your ADHD, or you're only focusing on the negative, and you're not consciously directing your attention to all the positive and the gifts and like, what is so possible for you because you have these unique traits, then you're doing yourself a disservice.
01:03:15
Speaker
Sure. so Yeah. So I would say follow people who inspire you with your ADHD content, not make you feel like hopeless or like you should be laughing at yourself all day or like you're so pathetic. Like, cause that's what a lot of the content looks like. Yikes. I did not know that. So thank you for the, uh,
01:03:37
Speaker
Yeah, I want to fight a lot of these content people who who want you to like feel not positive about having ADHD. know like they they yeah I know a lot of successful people that have ADHD. i've in the
01:03:58
Speaker
The ones that, you know, you would, you might not know, but they just, it's like, you know, this is something I, you know, I work with and and I dwell on it. You know, I can't imagine if they looked at it as like, you know, a disability or some negative, like, you know, that would, that would certainly limit me if I was viewing myself in that way or not, not accepting myself. Right. and so It's a talent. Yeah.
01:04:27
Speaker
ah Well, yeah, yeah. And the other thing, I think I'll close on this note, since it' it's a Thich Nhat Hanh quote, we should always close on a Thich Nhat Hanh quote. You're more than welcome. He was my my doorway into mindfulness. So go ahead. Oh my God, let me see. I mean, we should quote him correctly.
01:04:52
Speaker
um but bre right yeah rest i think one of yes I think one of the things that I have, not that I've done wrong, but that i I am wanting to liberate myself from, and so therefore I'm encouraging you to do the same, it is the need to feel like people need to get you, or that you need to explain yourself and your ADHD to people all the time, or that you you need people to understand where you're coming from. Because from my experience, no one really cares. And people
01:05:38
Speaker
All that energy that you're putting into kind of like explaining that you see the world this way and that this affects you this way, instead of putting energy into other people accepting who you are, put that energy towards you accepting who you are. ah Because I don't think, I mean people, I'm not saying that people don't care, but people,
01:06:04
Speaker
don't care about like your inner world the way that you do because ah your inner world is is yours i and you experience it the way you do because that's how you are and I think ADHD people are also highly sensitive people so we tend to be really sensitive we want everyone to like us we want everyone to understand us we want But I think one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself is to accept yourself and not be concerned with anyone's acceptance of you or understanding of you. Because yeah there there's not enough time in the day for that. um So I think his quote is, I can't find it right now, but it's be beautiful, basically.
01:06:57
Speaker
You have to accept yourself. It's way more beautiful than that. Oh, maybe I'll find it. Let me find this. So I don't miss it. If that I'll, I'll find it and put it in the description. Hold on. Let me ask, let me ask Claude. Which one is that like Google? What is that? Yeah. It's like chat. Uh, see. Hi.
01:07:22
Speaker
Oh, and accepting. I just posted it yesterday. It's so funny that I really can't find it right now. You know, oh, here you go. To be beautiful means to be yourself. You don't need to be accepted by others. You need to accept yourself.
01:07:46
Speaker
Well, those are beautiful words. And we will close on that. But Lenny, thank you so much for coming on and being yourself and being open and vulnerable and honest. um You know, you you bring it. Yeah. Thank you. And we will be in touch.
01:08:17
Speaker
Yes, thank you. Thank you so much for tuning in today and being with us. May you find joy, flow and adventure on your journey. And if you got something from it, please like, share and subscribe and or comment. It means a lot. Thank you.