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James O’Neill on Healing Stress, Perfectionism & Reclaiming Your True Self Through Mindfulness
24 Plays4 months ago
On this episode of the Journey Mindfulness Podcast the tables are turned as James is interviewed by Jan Carey, LCSW-C, CST, a previous guest and Certified Sex Therapist.
James talks about his experience learning about meditation from Dr. Drew Leder, MD, PhD. at Loyola College in Maryland and first hearing that "reincarnation is a fact!" and then moving on to learning various modalities such as Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction (MBSR), Vipassana Meditation, Mindful Performance Enhancement, Awareness, & Knowledge (mPEAK), Hypnosis, Quantum Healing (QHHT), & Past Life Regression. There is a lot to unpack on James' Journey and Jan does a terrific job maximizing the space.
James also shares about his time working in stressful situations in the US Peace Corps in Bangladesh, teaching children with severe and profound special needs (Autism), and then later counseling at-risk youth at a Community Mental Health Clinic where he experienced secondary trauma aka compassion fatigue that took a toll on his body, mind, and relationships, and how the modalities he is learning to heal from are those he now shares with his wonderful clients & students.
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To learn more about James and Journey Mindfulness:
https://journeymindfulness.com/
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Free Warrior Spirit Guided Meditation:
https://www.journeymindfulness.com/warrior_spirit_meditation
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Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction 8 Week Online Course
(Self-Guided):
https://www.journeymindfulness.com/MBSR
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Guided Self-Hypnosis to Conquer Fear & Doubt (digital download)
https://www.journeymindfulness.com/hypnosis
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DISCLAIMER: This show is for entertainment purposes only, not intended to replace medical advice. Please seek licensed medical professionals for help.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to the Journey Mindfulness Podcast, where we explore the expansion of consciousness, human experience, and the mysteries of life and human potential.
Transition to New Host
00:00:21
Speaker
I'm your host, James O'Neill, professional counselor, meditation teacher, and hypnotherapist. and today I am actually not going to be the host. I'm handing off hosting piece to the wonderful Jan Carrey, who is a therapist and friend and the tables have been turned. So Jan, thank you so much for coming on. ah Thank you for having me. This is going to
Motivation for Mindfulness
00:00:49
Speaker
be fun. but You know, we now get to learn more about you for once. Are you ready for that? I don't know. Let's do it.
00:00:57
Speaker
Let's do it. Well, I thought maybe we could kind of talk about what's motivated you to specialize in mindfulness because not every therapist ah takes that on.
00:01:11
Speaker
um Well, I had a really good professor when I was in college, and he was a medical doctor, but he never started practicing. He became a PhD philosophy professor and ah he was part of his class he for like extra credit or maybe it was like just built into the class you had to meditate like there was a class that you could do as part of the class right so it was experiential and so i started meditating and i started learning zen meditation from a he was actually a Jesuit priest who uh
00:01:56
Speaker
father Greg Hartley, who had some addiction issues with alcohol.
Learning from a Jesuit Priest
00:02:02
Speaker
And the Jesuits sent him to a Zen monastery to learn Zen meditation to help with the alcohol abuse and you it worked. And so he came back and he had a meditation class. And so I took that. And so that was, you know,
00:02:21
Speaker
was in my was a teenager, I guess, roughly, you know, and so that began my
Realization of Stress
00:02:28
Speaker
experience there, but it really wasn't until there was a point in my life, I was working at a community mental health clinic, and I i was working with all kinds of trauma. And I did it willingly. I loved the work. I enjoyed it. But I did not realize how much stress I was under. Like every day there was, I mean, crisis after crisis. um And then I went to the doctor one day and they were, I think I was maybe 29 years old, 30, maybe something like that.
00:03:11
Speaker
They're like, your blood pressure is through the roof. I'm like, what do you mean? like I'm relatively fit. ah you know i you like I'm i' mobile. I'm doing all my work whatever and I did not realize like just what kind of toll was taking on my body. and At that time, I went to a professional training right because we have to do these professional trainings.
00:03:37
Speaker
these CEUs and I did a body scan. I started learning getting back into more meditative practices. I did a body scan which is really the fundamental practice of of mindfulness and there there's more to it.
00:03:54
Speaker
But I
Impact of Secondary Trauma
00:03:55
Speaker
realized just how much stress that I was carrying for the first time. A guy did not realize. nick Nowadays, you'll hear people say, like, oh, I read this book. The body keeps the score. Yada, yada, yada.
00:04:09
Speaker
That was the first time where I got a window into the stress that I was carrying, and it blew my mind. Like, oh my gosh, like, I'm just collecting all these things and holding on to them, and I'm not releasing them. So all of that energy, that trauma,
00:04:26
Speaker
And all you know, because there's the trauma that you're experiencing through a client, or I think your empathy that that's our secondary trauma, you and then there's, you know, your own takeaway from it and how you are kind of processing all that. So that's golly, that was probably I mean, 15 plus years ago. man And um that's where I was like, okay, this stuff there there's a powerful these are powerful techniques and I need to to pay attention to them. Wow. So from that point on, did you begin meditating or was it a practice that took longer to kind of take root for you?
Vipassana Retreat Experience
00:05:06
Speaker
yeah It was perhaps something I like i was aware of. like I had learned it, and so I had been able to utilize it, but then gotten away from it and then realized going like I need to go back to this yeah in a deeper way. um It was like that that experience you have when you try something, you're like, whoa, this is good. This is really good. i want to I want to get some more of this.
00:05:35
Speaker
And so that ended up leading me into, ah eventually, i a friend of mine, he was one of the head psychiatrists at Shepherd Prep, and he had gone to a Vipassana meditation retreat, which is one of these 10-day silent retreats that's offered.
00:05:57
Speaker
they're offered around the world ah they're free ah but you got to do but you got to do the work um and they're not easy floors along with that You do not. there are volunteer After you take the class, you're allowed to volunteer to scrub the floors. You're working on humility at the same time. Yeah. um And people do it willingly, right? like these are And these are all fascinating people. But you go there, and that was that was probably several years after I started learning more, but getting back into a mindfulness practice, but like that was
00:06:37
Speaker
That was the big sort of step to, okay, like if you're, if you're serious about teaching this, like this is something and you actually have to do something like that in order to become a MBSR teacher. Like you have to do that. Uh, so, and that's not for everybody, but that's, that's what I ended up doing. And just realizing like on a very deeper level, um,
00:07:05
Speaker
just aspects of myself, my belief system, things that I was holding on to, like there was just this world of stuff that you don't ever notice,
Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction
00:07:15
Speaker
right? Because it's buried deep inside you. So vipassana in mindfulness is that stems from it, is called an insight meditation. And that is, you know, bringing awareness ah to to those things and get getting insights from that practice.
00:07:34
Speaker
Maybe you can talk a little bit about what MBSR is. So MBSR is a clinical program started by John Kabat-Zinn at Harvard.
00:07:48
Speaker
like 1979, but it's based on a Vipassana retreat. So the Vipassana retreat is 10 days. The MBSR class, mindfulness-based stress reduction course, is a clinical course. So they take some of the more spiritual. it's It's like scrubbed of the spirituality, right? So it's like, all right, this is the clinical program. There's no spiritual—you don't have to believe in the Buddha or anything like that. ah By the way, there's a funny story. The Buddha is is meditating and someone says, oh, you're a Buddhist. He goes, what's that?
00:08:28
Speaker
It wasn' he wasn't a, it was not a religion. um But ah anyway, they, the the course is an eight week course and the sessions are two and a half hours. And you're doing some of the practices, they're based on it. But it's just, it's it's a clinical thing. It's not, I don't think you get as deep in that sense, because you know, you're living your life. So it's it's a more approachable way to go at it. yeah And it's a great it's a great course. It's more behavioral and mindset rather than spirituality. It is bringing awareness
00:09:10
Speaker
to you in your life and identifying what it is, like how you're relating to your experience moment by moment. And like really starting to identify how you view things, how you judge things, how you look at the world, right? What is your
Mindfulness and Connection
00:09:30
Speaker
perspective? How do you view yourself? What are you showing, like how are you showing up in the moment? So you're really getting connected to yourself.
00:09:39
Speaker
Sure. And then, and then as you start to connect yourself, you start to see how you're connecting with other people and seeing the interconnectedness of all things.
00:09:52
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's really hard to be connected to others, I think, if you're not connected to yourself because you don't have any kind of awareness of what you're doing in relationships and how you're interacting with others. And as humans, we're not perfect. We oftentimes step on people's toes. huh Well, and to add some humility in this, I was clearly not connected to myself. So I, and and I was able, a lot of the work that I was doing, in some ways I was able to do because I was disconnected. How about that? Right. So like I could go into the worst situations and like I,
00:10:37
Speaker
did you know like because I was detached or I didn't feel pain like other people necessarily. like Not that these things weren't painful or like emotionally like scarring. I just had a very high tolerance for that.
00:10:53
Speaker
And there's, it goes deeper than that. But, but that's some of the things where you start to realize like, okay, how, if I'm not feeling pain, what does that say about me? Like, why am I not? Like, why am I disconnected? You know, and if you're a therapist, that doesn't sound really well, like, great. So like, how do I, how do I start to connect
Journey of Self-Love
00:11:14
Speaker
to those parts of me that are dormant in some ways?
00:11:20
Speaker
How long did it take you to get reconnected to these parts that you weren't so close to? I'm still working on it. Yeah, it's it's a practice, yeah? I i would
00:11:35
Speaker
I would never say that I have it all figured out. Like I'm working on it, you know, and it is, um, you know, one of the deeper aspects of my own personal work is trying to like figure out like, what is love? Mm-hmm.
00:12:00
Speaker
You know, and I had a therapist wonderful therapist. I would listen to the song Foreigner. She like, made me listen to the song by Foreigner. Like, oh, God, what is it? I want to know what love is. Yeah. High school, I think, or was that college? Yeah. And like, I would play that. Like, and it was like, because I was not loving myself. Mm hmm.
00:12:26
Speaker
And so that has been, ah I've been doing a lot of work with that, right? And have made giant strides, um but that there's an edge with that, I would say. So that that's been a big sort of theme to kind of give people an example of that. So exciting to be able to reach that point, I think.
00:12:50
Speaker
where you're willing and able to really get connected to yourself and to notice like, how am I treating myself as I walk through the world? How am I prioritizing other people's needs, feelings, experiences over my own? And it's ah it's a really hard thing to catch up to. It can be, right? So you have to have awareness. And I think one of the things that mindfulness gives you is how It gives you a lens into that if you want to accept it because, you know, like a lot of things, once you start looking at, you know, how you are relating to that, like you want to run away from it. Right. Like, so you start to see like how, how you deal with things that are unpleasant. Yeah. Right. It's easy to be like, Oh, that's great. Like that felt good. Let's do that again. What about all that other stuff? Yeah. You know, how do you react to those things and being aware of how
00:13:46
Speaker
the behaviors, the thoughts you have, the physical sensations that you get, yeah you know, when those things arise in the moment in to a big part of, you know, I was mentioning the body scan is paying attention to the physical sensations in your body, because our minds can deceive us and lie to us.
00:14:08
Speaker
but your body won't lie. Like when you meet somebody and you're talking to them and like, I don't know, something comes up and yeah, I don't know. Like you can think of almost any example. Yes. Well, it's, it's like, remember, I don't know if you remember that book I'm older than you are, but there was a book that was called, um,
00:14:31
Speaker
something fear. But the premise of the book is that your body is like a couple nanoseconds ahead of your brain. And that you as a woman, you can step into an elevator. And there may be a guy in the back of the elevator and with some guys feels totally okay.
00:14:49
Speaker
And with other guys, you walk in and you can fear feel the hair on the back of your neck stand up. and And what is happening? You know, it's like the body is registering something. It might be a micro movement that the man made or his stance or the expression or whatever it is. Your brain's not caught up to it, but your body is cueing you. There may be some danger here. Yeah. And i's it's funny that you bring up that gift of fear. That's the name of the book, The Gift of Fear.
00:15:16
Speaker
So that is exactly it like so tuning attuning to your body and your own natural sort of Spidey sense. Yes. um And ah you know for.
00:15:33
Speaker
ah Like some psychologists that I work with, like the the and you too, right? Like a lot of therapists in general, you can sense energy of people you know when they walk in there, like in your presence. ah And that is very important, right? Because that gives you information.
00:15:55
Speaker
ah dogs are really great at this too, right? Yeah. You know, it was someone I know was telling me, you know, they'll go in a room with this dog that maybe doesn't like anybody. And it's like super friendly to them. And it's because they they're like genuinely like good. yeah They're like an authentically like, uh,
00:16:16
Speaker
I want to say actualized, but like pure human being. Yeah. And the dog responds to that versus whatever else the dog is around. um Or consequently, sometimes I've seen this, too, where an animal might there might be someone who's not that great and the animal you'll see them kind of recoil. Yes. Or like growl. And it's like they they know. so It's like, what do they know? They know something.
00:16:42
Speaker
Yes, that's right. Well, it's it's embarrassing to admit this, but one of my little, um
Body Sensations and Insights
00:16:50
Speaker
you know, each year I feel like I grow as a therapist. And this year, what I finally learned and put together because I truly didn't know this was that feelings I always thought were the named um emotions. Happy, sad, mad, glad, surprised. But what I really learned is that feelings are are more related to sensations in your body.
00:17:12
Speaker
And that, as you're saying, ah you can trust that. The sensations in your body is what we're really meant to be tracking, and they can inform our feelings. So I know within my own therapy that I'm offering my clients, I'm having them pay attention to senses more. They're sensory sensations.
00:17:32
Speaker
Really glad but glad that you brought that up. So that with the body scan, as you are paying attention to the sensations, they're telling you a story. Yes. Like that's where you're getting your information and your insights from. One of the things that I learned um And I was like, yeah your basic reactions are fight white freezer fake and i was like what? And, uh, you know, it was like, yeah, you know, when someone says like, how are you doing? And you're like, uh, I'm great. Or I'm good. Maybe.
00:18:12
Speaker
Usually you're just faking it, you know, like in a sense. And so what I realized is that when someone like I didn't really know how I was feeling. I'll share that. ah And I, I would say that a lot of people, I work with probably more guys, but like, you, we don't know how we're feeling. We know how we maybe we're supposed to feel.
00:18:41
Speaker
And so it's coming from our head, but it's not connected to how we're actually feeling. And so that was a big thing for me to do is is to actually stop like and anyone that works with me or is set like, you might've been asked me like, how are you feeling? I have to pause and like direct my attention into my body and try to determine like how I'm feeling.
00:19:10
Speaker
Yes. But, you know, that's a complex question because here in the United States, that's a greeting. How are you doing? You know, at one time I was going through a divorce at the time and I was talking to my friend's husband and he asked me how I was doing. And I i told him, I'm really like not doing well. This is really hard. And I was complaining. He goes, Jan, I really didn't want to hear all that. I was just saying hello. I'm like, well, like what is happening?
00:19:35
Speaker
so oh I mean, we have to kind of attune to really who's interested in really knowing us too, you know? True. True. But that is a gift. Yeah. ah You know, as I went through ah some of the more advanced mindfulness training with some really, really great teachers.
Authentic Listening in Therapy
00:20:00
Speaker
ah And ah I'll admit this, like yeah listening is really hard.
00:20:08
Speaker
And I realized that that is always a practice. You know, what is someone saying to me? ah I try really hard to be good at it. Yeah. But I there are times where I'm like, man, I miss that. Yeah. ah And for anyone, so i was I'll give you an example.
00:20:33
Speaker
in some of the training that I've been in. And I was with some of the best therapists around the country, right, who all flocked the Center for Mindfulness during these years to to get trained in mindfulness because it became very popular.
00:20:47
Speaker
um It was hilarious to see, you know, there's a lot of egos in the room to see how much we miss. Yeah, I'm just like, okay, like there' there's a lot of humility here now for myself, you know, and how I work with people because I'm aware, like, it's really hard to tune in with not only like the words, right? Like you could say whatever words I could, but I can't fake certain things.
00:21:15
Speaker
right The energy that I'm putting out there, like people will pick up on, right? Whether or not it matches for them or not. ah Which is really important as a therapist, right? like Because it has to be congruent.
00:21:32
Speaker
And if it's not, then, you know, your clients will pick up on it. Other people will pick up on it. ah When your energy is sort of leaky.
00:21:43
Speaker
Yes. And it's it's a dilemma as a therapist, I think, or at least it's been a dilemma for me. How much do I listen and make space for sometimes ah wonky thoughts that aren't really based in reality? It's worry that people are projecting.
00:22:02
Speaker
versus how much time do I create an intervention and have the person look at their thoughts and address you know what else could be happening? Because I agree with you. ah I personally believe now that just the power of listening sometimes has ah the oomph to create the change that the client needs.
00:22:24
Speaker
So I too am working on this more instead of feeling like I've got to help this person, I've got to save this person. I really just need to be with this person as they're going through this struggle and um make space for all that they need to say.
00:22:39
Speaker
Yeah. i like You know, remember, you know, as a newer therapist, you know, when you're the person that someone is, you know, exchanging money with to, you're in that the responsible, you're the responsible person to say the right thing. And you want to like, remember being so anxious, like, I got to say the right thing. And it's going to be life changing. I got to create change. I got to make something happen.
00:23:08
Speaker
Right. I got to do this. Yeah. And then to realize like, yeah, maybe not. Maybe you don't, you know, one of the things, um, as I was becoming a mindfulness teacher, you know, the the teacher, the master in the room, if you will, for some, not every, not every, uh, teacher is the same, but for some of them, you know, Jim, that's a really great question. Why don't you sit with that? Which is really frustrating when you just want the dang answer. Yes. But it's.
00:23:45
Speaker
the um The belief that you have the ability, there is no one that knows it better than you. What do you want? right How does that feel? It's like taking that trip that is sometimes uncomfortable and unknown, but maybe maybe the best dancers aren't going to come from within.
00:24:07
Speaker
And that's one of the beauties of mindfulness practices is that you look inward versus like so many people today um outsource their power.
00:24:23
Speaker
Well, I don't know, what does this person say? I saw some video. It was ah i a biologist was walking out in nature and he was just talking about these trees and the the wildlife. And he goes, you know, ah today graduate students come out here and they won't believe anything I tell them unless it's in a peer reviewed paper.
00:24:47
Speaker
you know, versus like seeing these things and feeling them and touching them and experiencing all the beauty of the earth in what the at you know this particular researchers look at that. But we do that a lot. And so, you know, that that gets into like seeking approval from other people and validation ah and that kind of thing too. But ah really turning, you know, reclaiming your power. Yeah. You know, that there's a big part of that.
00:25:17
Speaker
Yeah. When you think about this valuable training, because I'll tell you, if there's one thing that I am motivated by now, it is in getting more body-based training because of what we just talked about, the body doesn't lie. How do you feel like this shapes your treatment in ways that other therapists may not be able to deliver?
00:25:45
Speaker
There is something to the ability when someone is in your presence and you're creating that space and to be able to direct them into themselves in a way that is safe and appropriate. Give us an example of that. How might you try and roll that out with somebody who's not maybe um connected at that moment?
00:26:16
Speaker
It's guiding them through a process that I've struggled through. So I know what that's like at a very deep level. yeah And um it's more than, you know, work on your breath. It's tied to your parasympathetic nervous system and you can just breathe. that Here's an app. You'll listen to this thing where it's like, no, this is actually work.
00:26:43
Speaker
Like you have to direct your attention in this and I can help guide you do it, but ultimately you're the one doing the work. Yeah. You know, it's kind of helping you work through some of the. I'll give you an example.
00:27:00
Speaker
um Guiding someone through some meditation, right? And then they were newer and I was like, you know, what what were you thinking? when you were doing that, you know, and they were like, I wasn't thinking about anything. ah like Wow. That's, that's wild. i'm Like you were thinking like, you know, am I doing this right? Or, you know, all this other stuff? He's like, well, I mean, I was thinking that I was Yeah, I was had a lot, a lot of thoughts. I'm like, exactly.
00:27:34
Speaker
yeah but to be able to separate and develop this ah metacognition of like observing your thoughts coming and going.
00:27:45
Speaker
yeah And being able to like, well, what is a thought? Okay. Well, and when you start to pay attention to your thoughts, by the way, I mean, I remember when I was doing this and i and i this is a known thing among meditation teachers, but you're like, Oh my God. Like, you know, some people have pretty interesting abilities, but you're like, I hope they don't, I hope no one can tell what I'm thinking in my mind, right? Uh-huh.
00:28:12
Speaker
And, uh, you start to observe all all of your sort of crazy thoughts, like your absurd things. And then you realize, man, I have, my thoughts can be wild. And so it's like, but what is a thought? Like, does that define who I am? And it's like, no, a thought is just a mental event, right? Like it's coming and going and you have, I don't know, the number always changes, but you know what, 60, 70 plus thousand thoughts a day.
00:28:38
Speaker
incredible It's incredible. Any correlation between these, I don't know what we're going to name these thoughts, but passing thoughts ah and like the subconscious,
Thoughts and Core Beliefs
00:28:50
Speaker
do you feel like they have like some kind of ah equality in terms of it ah being informative to us, much like our dreams are, or is it different than that?
00:29:04
Speaker
I think what you will find is that when you observe the quality of your thoughts, there's a connection with your core beliefs. i So if you are, you know, if I'm walking around and I am anxious or fearful, like you were talking, we mentioned something about like imposter syndrome. Yes.
00:29:30
Speaker
Um, if I am worried about being judged or, so I'm, uh, essentially there's a fear that I am.
00:29:42
Speaker
Maybe not enough might be one or not capable or something like that. Right. Like where I am inferior in some ways. So the fear is that I'm going to get exposed as some kind of fraud. Yeah.
00:29:56
Speaker
And so what what you'll find is like, okay, all these maybe, I wanna say superficial thoughts, but like thoughts that are fearful, like, oh, you know, i maybe I said the wrong thing or they probably think I'm an idiot or whatever. And then like it goes back to a fear of like something happening in my life where I feel inferior and that is my operating system. And so the thoughts that you're having you can correct when you get to the root of why, you know, they're they're sort of happening. yeah ah So you can kind of change the trajectory of your thoughts when you resolve some of the underlying um worries.
00:30:45
Speaker
Sure. Right. So like when you change, when you're able, and that's maybe more hypnosis, but mindfulness gives you another way of looking at it, right? So hypnosis is just a more clinical kind of meditation.
00:31:04
Speaker
But starting to see like the quality of your thoughts is important. So there's a ah story that I tell. ah It's not my story. it's I think it's a Cherokee story, a Native American story about the the two wolves. And his grandfather is telling his grandson about the two wolves. And we each have a wolf, you know, a good wolf and a bad wolf.
00:31:24
Speaker
ah you know, on each shoulder. And you know the the grandson asked, well, which is the wolf that wins? And the the grandfather says, well, the one that you feed. So if you're feeding your negative thoughts, that becomes the predominant, you know, force in your life. And but if you so like, you know, one way to look at it is like, or how I look at it is usually they're fearful thoughts.
00:31:55
Speaker
my negative thoughts are more like fearful. Like, well, what if, you know, what if this happens? And it's like, well, from a more loving perspective would be like, give it a shot. Let's see. You know, you're a beautiful human being. Like, let's see what happens here. I don't, I don't think the worst, think the best. There's a need for protection. Their mind is constantly going, assessing for danger and trying to protect, you think?
00:32:24
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Right. Like our lizard brain, like that is, and that is one of the first things that you'll start to realize it in a mindfulness practice, right? Like our minds are like the default mode. Yes. Your default mode is constantly scanning thoughts. And it is very easy if you are or walking around and like, let's say, you know, the imposter syndrome to pick up And we're just misinterpret like evidence of that fuels that thought. Right. So now, im you know, I'm like ah that that negativity bias. Yeah. Oh, you know what, she called me out on that, you know, and it's like, all right, then now that's part of the story. Yes. Right. And so our thoughts skew negative. Yes. And that 80 keep ourself safe. Yeah.
00:33:16
Speaker
It's a way, yeah, it's it's a way to detect threats, right? And so the the example that's often given is, you know, in prehistoric times, we're we're trying to evade the saber-toothed tiger, and that's how our minds work. they It's designed to to keep us safe. However, in the modern world, you know,
00:33:38
Speaker
there's no tiger jumping out, hopefully all around the corner, but your brain is still hardwired that way. And so you have to really rewire your brain and how you are viewing things in order to function in the modern world, right? There's so many, ah your attention is being pulled in so many different ways. There's so many distractions already. And to be aware of like how that, how you're interacting with that Yeah, and I know in the sex therapy that I offer, one of the strategies that I've been really talking about has been the more that I'm connected to myself, the better I can protect myself. And so I almost think that, you know, this fear that keeps popping up
00:34:28
Speaker
is directly related to the person's ability to speak up, ask for what they need, make boundaries, and um kind of, you you know, have some agency and direction around what they need and want. Do you feel like that's true?
00:34:46
Speaker
Yeah, maybe you could, I'm trying to to say that at a different way. So like they are,
00:34:57
Speaker
Maybe you could ask the question again. like there they What is the protective? In other words, um the protectors need to be hypervigilant, I think, because the person isn't as connected to themself in understanding what they need, understanding how they're feeling, being able to ask for what they need. So they have to kind of listen to these protectors because they don't feel like in this world they're safe and that they actually have their own back. They don't feel agency, you know?
00:35:27
Speaker
So they disconnect? So they're disconnected and what they most need is to get connected to being able to speak up because yeah you know I find that the most anxious people are oftentimes the people that um avoid conflict the most.
00:35:49
Speaker
So I would say yes and right because if you say something it's the the fear is that in some ways it's a catastrophic thinking right. Yes. The worst thing is going to happen or I'm going to be hurt and maybe I maybe I am being hurt but it's a hurt that I'm comfortable with and no.
00:36:09
Speaker
Yes. And so this is safer than the other, whatever the other is. It's a risk. The unknown is a risk. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's that's a big part of one of the programs I teach too. it I mean, it's it's woven in everything, but I like that dance with uncertainty.
00:36:32
Speaker
Yeah, let's talk about your programs because I think you have some really interesting services that you offer. And I think people need to know more about what you do and how you do it because there's a lot of people that could be helped by this.
00:36:48
Speaker
Well, primarily, so the mindfulness-based stress reduction course is sort of the bread and butter. And then that was the course I was talking previously that was started by Jon Kabat-Zinn. So I was an athlete and dealt with all the things that go with that. What did you play? What did you play?
00:37:11
Speaker
I with the ah played everything. It's just going to sound kind of crazy. But I pretty much played everything. But in high school, I focused on golf. I was a competitive golfer. I didn't know that.
00:37:23
Speaker
Yeah and then i so then i I took that to college but things didn't really pan out there and then during that time I got hurt so I had broke my ankle and it impacted the performance of my golf game and I remember I gained some weight and then I started ah going to the gym uh to rehab and then i put on uh well better weight in the gym and then uh but i wasn't the the same golfer anymore and so i i was looking for a new sport and i started to play rugby so then that was a completely you know to go from golf this like you know very non-violent game into rugby like that that was my transition and that's that's how i finished out college and then
00:38:14
Speaker
I got hurt again playing rugby after I got out of the Peace Corps, and that that was the end of my playing days. I was focused on graduate school, ah but being an athlete um and the emotions that you go through winning and losing in you know in golf for me,
00:38:36
Speaker
Anger was, you know, one of the things that that came out and, you know, how do you... But that's also a protective emotion too, right? Like, it's... Was that because your golf career was disrupted or how did anger feather feather in here? It's... Anger would come out in, you know, let's just just hitting a... Not being perfect. Ah, yeah, yeah. Not hitting the shot perfectly.
00:39:04
Speaker
Talk about a sport that captures perfection. Oh my gosh. So, MPeak is one of the programs and that stands for Mindful Performance Enhancement Awareness and Knowledge. And so what ended up happening is about 10 years ago um at UCSD, they had University of California San Diego, they had ah they developed a program based on the MBSR program for the US men's cycling team.
00:39:34
Speaker
And they did a study with that and on their performance and they did some fMRI brain scans and the the the pre and the post and how they were dealing with stress and pain and and difficulty showed that the course made a a difference, right? Like this big impact on how they were handling stress and therefore performance.
Mindfulness in Sports
00:40:00
Speaker
So once they had that evidence, that's when, you know, at least in the world of sport, although it ah it had already existed, um there was a guy named George Mumford that taught MBSR to like Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls and then the LA Lakers. But this was like the first time where they had actual like,
00:40:21
Speaker
evidence like, okay, there's something to this. And then, you know, all kinds of sports teams or whatever started to flock to San Diego to learn this program. ah And it was fascinating to me because I know just how like I didn't have training when I was golfing. And, you know, it was just wasn't something it's still not something really,
00:40:49
Speaker
that coaches really implement, like even though they know this. So and when you're applying this kind of ah mindset to golf, where would the focus be? where how How does it get attached to golf? So the pitfalls like learning to work with the pitfalls of perfectionism, right like how do you which is really ultimately a fear-based behavior. Yeah.
00:41:19
Speaker
So, but who who knows that, right? Cause like a lot of people think, but well, I'm, I'm a hard worker. I'm not doing anything that's not perfect. And they push it, right? So they, they're driving themselves into the ground. A lot of times thinking that they're doing the right thing when they're actually hindering their performance.
00:41:42
Speaker
Yes, it's like even captured on TV shows, you know, and it's typically a guy, although I know a lot of women play golf, where the guy is just out there on the golf rage and just like obsessed with it and seeking that that one shot. Yeah.
00:41:59
Speaker
So that was me. yeah So i when I ah started getting better, I had an experience. I was in a golf tournament. And i this was the first time I was in a playoff in one of the bigger tournaments in Virginia. And I made the playoff. And it was like this huge thrill. And then all of a sudden, all these people started you know coming to the whole and watching the playoff. And this was the first time I've ever hit a golf ball in front of the crowd. And I'm like, oh my god. So like, I wouldn't have known what a panic attack was. And I don't think I was quite there. But my heart was beating through my chest. yeah And I remember I hit the my my shot in the fairway. like I got away with one there. And then the next shot I shanked and I was just being shanked.
00:42:49
Speaker
I hit it like I didn't hit it well. Like it went off to the side into like the hazard. I bogeyed the hole and I was just probably a good thing. But I lost.
00:43:04
Speaker
I ah got ah basically missed, like I lost. Like pars par is like the, you know, you're allowed maybe four strokes to complete, to hit the ball in the hole and I got five. And then after that, I was i was incredibly embarrassed, you know, that I, in that moment, I Hit that shot in front of all these people so like the embarrassment the shame was like crazy And so I got angry at myself Yeah, and then I started hitting golf ball. I might If you want to be good, right? The belief was you need to work harder than everybody else. Yeah, you got to get better uh obsessively hitting golf balls to the point where my hands were bleeding, um
00:43:53
Speaker
in that last, I mean, that lasted a really long time. wow But I didn't have the tools to be like, you know what? Dude, you don't need to kill yourself to get better. Like, yeah this is ridiculous. Yeah. And maybe, maybe, I don't know, I'm not a golfer as we have just learned, but maybe if you had been able to relax and disconnect from what others thought in that moment, that ball may have gone where you wanted it to go. Yeah.
00:44:19
Speaker
Well, I was in my head, right? Like, and then, and then the state of fear where I could have, you know, wait, all right, to go to your breath. Let's focus on the shot, be in the moment. And then, oh gosh, it was probably the next year or two, or like my best years in a sense, which, which also reinforced that idea of the hard work. Yeah.
00:44:46
Speaker
Right. And so it was like, oh, wait, that that works. And that's what a lot of people I think get caught up in is they start they they work really hard. They push it. And, you know, that can work for a while, but eventually it can grind you down and you can get it to burnout and all kinds ah of negative things. So that's one that's one group of people you're kind of targeting to work with. Yeah.
00:45:14
Speaker
People that, because I can relate to people that push themselves yeah in, um you know, that that want to do that, right? Like I want to be the best. I want to get an edge. I'm not i' not afraid to try new things necessarily.
00:45:32
Speaker
ah you know, and working with difficulty, working with pain. ah You know, i've I've had injuries, I've had to come, I still go through them now, right? Like, i I know what that's like. But then I, part of this program is like, okay, well, what about my pain? How am I making it worse for myself? Is this in my head or is it in my body? hello You know, realizing like, man, am I creating my own pain? That's it that's an interesting one.
00:46:02
Speaker
I don't know. That's huge. That's scary to to, you know, realize that you can have ah somatic symptoms because of how you're thinking. Yeah, right. But the mind body connection, right? Yeah, but paying attention to that. And, you know, I think, obviously, like the the great success is, you know, if was wondering about, you know, talking about this, but like, you know, having somebody who's facing it a very difficult decision, you know, like, recently, clients had, a they were facing essentially like a hopeless
00:46:44
Speaker
ah Kind of business deal and had to do a presentation and this and that and There was nothing they had nothing to lose right it was already lost in their mind And they went in and we talked about you know non-attachment to outcome Okay, we already know that we're probably not going to win right that's already established so we can toss that out the window and i would say to do that anyway but let's focus if we were going to win how would we do it what are the steps that we take now regardless of the outcome well this is what we can do well let's just do that we'll try to connect with whoever we can connect with make your performance great and just stay like stay in our lane let's just do that see what happens you know then
00:47:31
Speaker
They did it and then it was like, you're not going to believe this. Like I, you know, ah god we we didn't, we won. And like, you know, like, it's like, see, if you get in your head.
00:47:42
Speaker
Yeah, ah you pre-determine the outcome with things, right? You jump to conclusions and you you can sabotage yourself in that way. And the example in the MP class is like, you know, when you're climbing a mountain and there's not too many mountains that I've really climbed, but like, um,
00:48:03
Speaker
you'll often see like a picture of like a cloud covering the peak, right? So, and peak. And you know that the top of the mountain is there, but, and you know that it's going to take steps to get there. There's the easy path, there's the hard path, there's like, you know, levels of difficulty and and things like that. But you know that if you just stay in the moment as best you can, eventually you'll get to the top.
00:48:27
Speaker
Now you determine a lot in between now and then, but that's the concept of like, okay, I want to be this at this, whatever your, you know, per area of performance is, whether you're, you know,
00:48:41
Speaker
an entrepreneur or a therapist or someone else, like whoever, you know, whoever it is dealing with some, some high level of stress or a surgeon, right? Like what happens when something goes wrong and you're on the operating table? How do you get back, right? Because your patient doesn't care what went wrong. They want you to fix it. Yeah. And that means that you have to be able to calm yourself as quick and like, and perform in that moment.
00:49:12
Speaker
You know as best you can you can't panic And so there's Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. Well, no, I mean so that's mindfulness but where ah some of these practices help you get into is a Like a flow state it doesn't guarantee that you get in a flow state but it preps you to be able to be in a state of flow which is for those that don't know, um when say like you're you're facing a challenge and you have a certain level of skill. And if your level of skill is close to the challenge, like you can be in a flow state. yes ah If your level of skill, so like in the the example I gave with the golf, my skill level was not at the level of that challenge in that moment. And so I panicked and failed.
00:50:08
Speaker
Which that's what happens. But from a mindful, like from an NP standpoint, it would be like, okay, that did not work. There's no need to beat yourself up. How can we bring an element of compassion, which is not something that we normally think of with um performance.
00:50:31
Speaker
Yes. And be kind and compassionate to yourself. And so by compassion, the definition we use is meeting difficulty with kindness. Yeah. And then like, all right, let's get back to it. You know, we can do this a different way. We don't have to like, crush ourselves. Yeah, so important. I use ah the concept of compassion in my work also because We're in a world right now that is really focused on what are you doing right now? We're on social media showing our fabulous vacations. ah We're talking about how we got a raise. We're were're ah used to seeing people self-promote and and show show us the money.
00:51:16
Speaker
And um there's not much talk, ah people to people, person to person, around what do you do when you don't make it? How do you self soothe? How can you feel better? And so I'm hearing as you talk about this that you can be helpful both before the big game where maybe you're making space to learn how to detach from ah projecting what you think other people's expectations are for you, as well as maybe learning how to better self soothe and make space for um not being perfect. And the idea that maybe this game was a little bit tougher than your skill set. And this doesn't mean anything in the bigger scheme of things, except that you're on a path to getting there.
Redefining Identity After Injury
00:52:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you you have to learn and what I've had to learn and I'll tie this into like why I work with some of the people I work with. It's you're right. You can really form your identity by your performance. Like I'm this. Yeah. I'm this player. You know, I've got this accolades. I've won these things, these awards.
00:52:31
Speaker
um But what, so like, so you know, some of my athletes, by the way, my clients are, I ah really liked my clients, but like they, um, that's awesome. They were, you know, former professional athletes and okay, you got an injury and now you can't do that anymore. Yeah.
00:52:53
Speaker
Well, now you have to recreate who you are. Yeah. Who you think you are. Maybe it's about managing disappointment and grief and loss because who you thought you were going to be has now shifted. And what you, what you've lost is your dream. Yes. But like a lot of times people, you know, say like you've been a professional athlete, you reached pretty much the pinnacle. Yeah. Of what you can do.
00:53:22
Speaker
True. And we so often dismiss the good, you know, like we were not grateful. Like, man, you, you made it. Like you, you had a career in the NFL. Like most people don't know what that's like, have no idea, you know, and it's, it's easy to judge somebody and be like, well, um, you know, you, you didn't win 10 Super Bowls. Okay, well, you know what, but you had a heck of a run or, you know, you, what, you know, outside of sports, you know, you had a successful business, you, you dominated this field and maybe you're just bored and you you're burned out and you're like, you know what, I'm not doing this anymore. Like, okay. And like, who am I? Right? Like that deep, then get a little deeper there. But like that soul question, like, who am I? Right? What really matter?
00:54:13
Speaker
You've got to be more than just your role, right? You've got to be more than the professional football player. There's other parts there. Absolutely. And so one of the things that I think I learned when I started working with a lot of high performers is there is a a profound connection, like they really know in a lot of ways, this then this kind of stood out to me with like MMA fighters.
00:54:47
Speaker
man, a lot of them were like super like very cool, very nice. ah They know what it's like to get punched in the face. Right? But they but I say that is that they're very connected to their humanity. And so that is another foundational a pillar of MP is are common humanity, you know, knowing ah what it is to be human and just how messy it is. And there's not, I guess I say that to say like, you know, it's not, we all want to present like, oh, I'm successful and this and that and I never lose and blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, you know, but that's like bull crap. You know, it's like anyone that's been successful has failed at something. Sure. Not everything. Oh, go ahead. Sorry, I'm sorry.
00:55:39
Speaker
Now, there's just there's a level of humility for people that I think have truly been successful. They know how hard it was to get there and and how much, you know, effort and also how much help they received to get there. Mm hmm. You know, so being grateful for that, too, like that that whole. ah Just gratitude is a wonderful practice. You know, you hear it all the time. i just I'm not sure how much people actually practice it, but. Yeah, right.
00:56:07
Speaker
Well, what when you think about your what you're offering, I want to make sure that you really clearly talk about the other things you're doing here, just in case somebody else is hearing something that might be helpful to them. So you've got this um mindfulness performance um program. And what else do you offer, Jim?
00:56:32
Speaker
So I do hypnosis work ah and some of that comes out, you know, if anyone works with me individually, that that might come out, but it's it's all goes back to rewiring the brain. So, you know, taking a look at.
00:56:50
Speaker
how you are seeing yourself in the world and then what we might need to tidy up. So the hypnosis can help us work on that ah and sort of rewire that. And really it's transforming self-defeating core beliefs. So identifying core beliefs and then tweaking the code. You know, you go to a store, yeah I could go to the Apple store today, buy a new phone.
00:57:16
Speaker
If it's not already there, there's going to be an update to the operating system. yeah Well, humans are the same way, right? Like your early years, you you know, the time between your zero to seven and maybe even before then, um you are you have your robby operating system established. You have to update that. And if you don't, and in most of us don't know or don't know how to do that, it's not something we were taught.
00:57:41
Speaker
you've had to do that. So that's where where that hypnosis can help is um rewiring those beliefs into healthy, true beliefs about yourself that I would say kind of shift from negative to like healthy and positive. So can a client come in doing the mindfulness work also get like the menu option of hypnosis or is that kind of a separate um service? How does that work?
00:58:11
Speaker
Honestly, theyre they're the way that I work now, they're more connected. Uh-huh. So it's kind of interrelated. Yeah. Because what I found was like, OK, I'm aware that I have this belief, but now I have to to plant. right I got to like hardwire this new belief into my brain so that I'm not defaulting to the negative belief. Uh-huh.
00:58:36
Speaker
So how do I do that in a way that reinforces that? And so they're connected in that way. ah But yeah. And how long are people usually in treatment with you for? like What's the typical um span of treatment? It depends.
00:58:55
Speaker
you know ah what
00:58:59
Speaker
Depends on the person. um I would say it could be relatively brief depending on if it's something that you're like a specific type of issue. know we kind of And you've identified it and we can kind of hone in on it. Like fear of lying or like a ah very specific fear or.
00:59:20
Speaker
it so good It could be, you know, some of them are addiction issues. Some of them are, you know, going through a divorce that, you know, however long that takes. ah Going through a career transition. um yeah So anyway, it could be, you know, anything from very brief from, you know, five, six sessions, 10 sessions to two more depending on where you are with things.
00:59:50
Speaker
Mm hmm. Well, um, do you have a favorite self help book that you refer your clients to something that kind of augments the work? Oh, gosh. Putting you on the spot.
01:00:09
Speaker
I have a favorite. I can tell you mine. ah You know, when it comes to compassion, there's a book by Kristin Neff called Self-Compassion. And I find that's a really, really good book to help people develop compassion. i mean Yeah, she's at UCSD for once. if er i is that hu yeah no She's she's really really great with that.
01:00:35
Speaker
um You know, I'm not sure it's a self-help book. It's not a self-help, but the the book that had the biggest impact on me is The Alchemist. Oh, yeah. I've read that. Apollo, Apollo. Yeah. um And just, you know, ah to me, that book
01:01:05
Speaker
it, you know, when you decide something the universe conspires to help you achieve it, right? Like, yeah, what I enjoy seeing in my clients is like, let's what do you want? Like trying to figure out like, what is it that you want? Because a lot of times I see people that they are um They're living someone else's life, right? I think that's one of the top, if not top five regrets that people have is that they didn't do what they wanted to do. They did what they thought, you know, maybe a parent or someone else wanted them to do. And so ah that was always, you know, that's really at the core of kind of like, I want people to be able to decide for themselves what they want and then to help them get it. So if you want to be a tennis champion,
01:01:51
Speaker
Let's work on that. You know, we can do that. If you are, you know, going through a divorce and trying to put your life back together, you know, I know what that's like. Let's, and I can help you work through that, you know, like whatever that is, you're going through a dark night of the soul. Unfortunately, I know what that's like too, right? Like you can, we can work on your hero's journey, um whatever that is.
01:02:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's a beautiful story because there's the the story part of it, which almost reads like a fairy tale. And then there's like the deeper meaning part that, um, it's good, good stuff in the therapy room, huh? Yeah. And I know we're running out of time a little bit, but you didn't ask about past life regressions. What do you, what questions do you have about it? If that's so many questions about it, should we just do another podcast on or do you want me to ask them now?
01:02:45
Speaker
Well, is there any burning question that you want to know about it? And then maybe we can talk about it. Well, I'm super curious about where your interest in it came from. like what Because all of us, you know we picked this um ah population that we like to work with as therapists. And what led us to that population is very interesting, I think.
01:03:05
Speaker
Um, well, so I had the, when I was referencing how I got into meditation, um, ta him yeah you offer this. I don't know if the audience knows that. Yeah. So I offer past life regression.
Introduction to Past Life Regression
01:03:20
Speaker
So if you're like, well, what the heck is that? Well, it's when you regress and you are able to observe several or, you know, of your past lives that you have lived.
01:03:34
Speaker
So you have a soul and You know you're incarnated at this moment if you're watching this and you're observing this but you have probably lived many other lives and ah So I the guy that actually got me into meditation. Dr. Drew leader MD PhD in addition to Sort of getting me to meditate ah Remember he walked into he so I had him on the podcast season one of the episodes here It's maybe I don't know maybe the the the earlier episodes. Well one day he said, you know Meditate or reincarnation is a fact now I went to a Jesuit Christian school right like this is heresy
01:04:23
Speaker
And I'm like looking at him like, that is such a bold statement to make. Like how the audacity of this guy to insinuate, like how do you know? How do you know this? And so he gave us some stuff to read by some of the research by a guy named Dr. Ian Stevens from University of Virginia, ah their medical school.
01:04:51
Speaker
So he did research on reincarnation. He studied like 3,000 cases of it. And you would hear these stories, um you know, like this like little Italian girl woke up and started speaking, ah you know, Nepalese or this person was murdered. And then they, as a young child, accused their murderer of this thing and like showed them the body and like All of these stories that are like documented, and you're like looking at this evidence, you're like, I mean, that's crazy, right? How does a little Italian girl start speaking boutonnie's or something like that? you know there's There's no plausible explanation.
01:05:33
Speaker
And so he yeah ah seeing that, and then mean I was already interested in like Hinduism and Buddhism and things like that, which all of these concepts of like reincarnation, or they're just baked in already. right like It's not even like a question like, okay, of course that exists.
01:05:51
Speaker
ah There was an American Express commercial a few years ago where they show them picking the Dalai Lama. So the Dalai Lama is like the 14th, whatever, but it's the same person, the same soul or part of that soul. And so past life regression is simply a technique for you to search through your own consciousness and get catch glimpses of You know, previous experiences that you've had. ah So it's interesting. Does everybody have the capacity to go back like that? Or is it only the a certain type of person that has these slivers of memories or bigger memories?
01:06:35
Speaker
I mean, I would say anyone could do it. you know There is um people that ask for that are perhaps more like open to that. there's There can be a lot of fear with hypnosis. ah It's really not scary in any way. um you know If you're with someone who can guide you through you know a life, likey you know we vote we've all been everything.
01:07:03
Speaker
guys, gals, different races, things like that, ah rich, poor. So it's, it for me, it's really fascinating, because I have no idea what I'm getting into. um But it's, it's utterly fascinating, fascinating, because it can give you just information about maybe some of the themes that you're struggling in life now. you know and And so every life has a purpose, every life has a meaning. And so there is value, potentially value, right? Looking back at those things and being like, okay, this was you know an experience that you had and this is who you are now. And this is the, doesn't none of it really matters in the sense is like other than,
01:07:48
Speaker
This life right like this moment is the most important thing. This is the meditation in life This is what matters the most this can help you maybe identify some self-defeating things that maybe where that comes from and Kind of why you were doing what you're doing now in this life So it's it's utterly fascinating So it's kind of like a grounding experience where you're better understanding ah themes in your life, strategies you've employed, um mindset you have, or is it different than that? Well, there can be healing involved so that the tech, the modality that I use um mostly is quantum healing hypnosis technique, which is called Q H H T. But it's, um,
01:08:43
Speaker
I'll give you an example just for my own regression. ah So Dr. Leader, by the way, taught he didn't get it into his past lives, but he went through like 11 of them with ah some hypnotherapist.
01:08:59
Speaker
um ah that's That's a lot right to go through. ah But for me, my one of the past lives that I went through was very, ah very violent.
01:09:12
Speaker
You know, it was nomadic and there it was a very dangerous, hard life. um In this life, um right at 9-11, when 9-11 happened, I had the opportunity to go into the military. And that's what a lot of my peers did.
01:09:30
Speaker
That was an option. ah In this life, I chose to go into the Peace Corps. So the theme that I learned from that life, like i've I've lived that life, that perspective, I've done that, I've been in war. I don't need to do that anymore, right? So it's for me, learning a more peaceful existence and a different approach to living that I am exploring now. So that that was a shift for me. It was an evolution.
01:10:01
Speaker
and evolution. And so it was sort of interesting for me to like kind of be like, okay, that's where that that sort of aggressive impulse comes from. And that's was a part of you, but it's not a part of you anymore. But it was helpful for me to know that and like, that was a significant shift, right? Like, but I had to make that choice.
01:10:20
Speaker
Uh-huh. So somebody might explore this to kind of amplify or um motor what they're working on in therapy. It would be a ah source of um like,
01:10:38
Speaker
would it be like a resource for them almost or a guidepost for them? So typically, so for some people they're aware of it and or they've had multiple past life regressions already. Yeah.
01:10:52
Speaker
You know, and they want to do another one or, you know, they're in therapy and they're like, you know, like, let's do this. Or honestly, like the psychologists or other, you know, professional counselors who were like, I, you know, I want to, I want to do this. I want to see what, what comes up. You know, there's this this curiosity that, that sets in. and anything Yeah. Like what, you know, what, what would happen? I don't know. Let's see.
01:11:20
Speaker
Right. What percentage of your practice ah do people i want to do that past life regression work? you I would say it's pretty pretty low.
01:11:33
Speaker
There's some referral sources I have that are you know sort of steady, but it's it's ah it's not one that is, I think it's maybe growing. like More people are becoming more open to that and and are curious about it. yeah But I think there's other reasons for that too. But yeah, just people opening up to two different things than than they normally would.
01:11:57
Speaker
Yeah, so it kind of gives you a new lens to look on their current struggles. um Yes, absolutely. there that There is absolutely that. And I will say this, a lot of people have told me that they've had past life regressions. So it's like one of those things that's almost like in the closet, you know, where it's Like where it's like, wow, I've had, the you know, I've done this, but I don't really talk about it because I don't want to like be looked at or ridiculed. But I guess part of doing this and just listen, this is just what I offer. You don't have to believe in it or do it. Right. Like it's fine. ah There's no, there's no need for me to convince anyone to do it. um It's just one of those things that exists.
01:12:43
Speaker
Right. It's an option. It's on the menu. It's on the menu. There you go. You got it. Impressive menu here. e um Do you have openings right now for new clients? I do. Give me a call. And do people know where to reach you?
01:13:04
Speaker
The easiest way to reach me is through my website and that is www.journeymindfulness.com and and they can find out all my contact info there and reach out and yeah, we can talk. Awesome. Well, it has been so interesting talking to you today. I always learned something new every time I talk to you.
01:13:28
Speaker
Jan, it is always a pleasure. Thank you so much for turning the tables on me and getting me to talk about me. I struggled too much. You look pretty comfortable. You know, maybe there's more to that I just have to say that I've been repressing. I don't know. Well, if you want to do this again, we can definitely do it. and Absolutely. We can talk more about any of these things because I think we just skim the surface.
01:13:55
Speaker
Yeah, no, there's always a deeper level to everything. And, you know, hopefully people will get something out of it. I'm sure they will. All right, Jan. Till next time. Till next time. Thank you so much for tuning in today and being with us. May you find joy, flow and adventure on your journey. And if you got something from it, please like, share and subscribe and or comment. It means a lot. Thank you.