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From the Ice to Inner Peace: Greg Klym’s Mindfulness Journey
23 Plays1 month ago
In this episode of the Journey Mindfulness podcast, host James welcomes Greg Klym, a mindfulness expert and coach from Canada. Greg shares his inspiring transition from a Division 1 hockey player at the University of New Hampshire to a dedicated mindfulness practitioner, sparked by a personal battle with depression and anxiety in 2007. He reflects on how his athletic background shaped his resilience and work ethic, and how mindfulness became a 'superpower' for navigating life’s challenges. Together, James and Greg explore the transformative potential of present-moment awareness, the neuroscience of change, and the courage to embrace failure, offering listeners practical insights and hope for cultivating inner peace amid uncertainty.
Greg Klym is a dedicated mindfulness coach with a mission to guide individuals toward greater happiness, peace, and well-being. With a background as a competitive athlete, NCAA college hockey player and coach, and corporate sales professional, Greg spent over four decades focused on achievement. His journey eventually led him to embrace mindfulness as a transformative practice, which he now shares through one-on-one and group coaching sessions.
To learn more about Greg and his offerings please visit his website here.
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https://journeymindfulness.com/
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Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction 8 Week Online Course
(Self-Guided):
https://www.journeymindfulness.com/MBSR
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https://www.journeymindfulness.com/hypnosis
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DISCLAIMER: This show is for entertainment purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical or psychological advice. Please seek licensed medical professionals for help & guidance.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Background
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome to the Journey Mindfulness Podcast, where we uncover the power of awareness and mindfulness. And today I am joined by my friend, Greg Klim, a mindfulness expert and coach coming in live from Canada. Welcome, Greg.
00:00:30
Speaker
Great to be with you, James. Thank you. Yeah, man. So I, you know, in in doing a little research for this podcast, I did not realize that you played Division I hockey.
00:00:45
Speaker
Yes, feels like a lifetime ago, but I did back in 89 through 93. I went to the University of New Hampshire but for four years and played D1 hockey there. so Well, I'm very familiar with hockey. yeast I've been to a number of games and my nephew is playing there and right now at UMass.
00:01:07
Speaker
ah But that's ah that changes things for me because that is elite level hockey. That's no joke. that That takes a lot of hard work and dedication. And I'm sure that that had an impact on you like when you like in your experience with
From Athlete to Coach: Greg's Mindfulness Journey
00:01:24
Speaker
mindfulness. But maybe you could tell us about your journey kind of and how you evolved into becoming a a mindfulness coach.
00:01:33
Speaker
Wow. Yeah, it's justs been quite a ride. You know, we all have a story and and a journey through this through this life and our evolution. And athletics has been such a big part of ah my world for so many years, and it still is and to a lesser extent, certainly now, but it's kind of in my bones.
00:01:53
Speaker
uh yeah competitive athletics throughout my my my upbringing hockey was my first love and i pursued that and um was fortunate enough to get a scholarship to the university of new hampshire and um i've always been a driven individual you know and it served me many ways and it's also held me back which is a whole other conversation, but it it's the experiences I've had through athletics and specifically through hockey have really, really shaped
00:02:27
Speaker
a lot of who i am and just learning some of those um you know those skills and attitudes that are really so essential in everyday living you know um just establishing a work ethic and and facing adversity cultivating resilience uh honing your craft was all part of and know what I did throughout my life. And it's so interesting looking back on my athletic career now, having gone through my own personal journey with with well-being and specifically with mindfulness, which...
00:03:06
Speaker
I know we're going to get into, but this is year be more aware and, um, just learn about our mind and our body and how we show up in the world. And I just reflect on my experience athletically on my mindset at that. yeah And so some of my beliefs and perceptions and all of that stuff that was at play that I really had no idea, but it was happening. And then I see now,
00:03:33
Speaker
like I see now how again how it served me, but how it helped me back. So it's been a really interesting reflection on on that piece. but um it's you know and Transitioning out of ah competitive hockey world, and I it say oh was an NCAA coach after I played for a number of years, and then transitioned into a whole other industry yeah beyond that.
00:03:56
Speaker
um But taking those, again, those things that I learned through high-level athletics and um and really to this day, and I think to the day i die, i'll be I'll be applying some of those things that I learned along the way. So it's such an incredible experience.
00:04:11
Speaker
um Yeah. Change it for the world. It's just interesting to reflect on it now.
Mindfulness in Sports: Overcoming Emotional Challenges
00:04:18
Speaker
Well, it certainly gives you a perspective because playing sports, you know, for me,
00:04:26
Speaker
We didn't really have training in how to handle things when they went wrong or, you know, you're pushing yourself too much. You're beating yourself up too much. You're being really hard on yourself.
00:04:41
Speaker
It was kind of trial and error, figuring things out or meeting someone who, you know, could share a tip with you or something like that. And it really was injury for me in athletics that got me to like, all right, I need to figure out this mental thing because what I'm doing is not working.
00:05:01
Speaker
And I'm not doing myself any favors right now. That is so true. it's It's funny how we get pushed to the edge with some of these life experiences and with athletics, be it an injury or be it just, ah you know, you know,
00:05:17
Speaker
things change and you know, you your body ages and you can't do what you once did. And, and, and that's difficult to kind of transition into the aging piece with, with being a high level athlete. And, um,
00:05:31
Speaker
There's some real challenges mentally that come with that. So i totally relate to to what you're saying. it's But we didn't have the skill set, absolutely. And um I just think now athletes and you know the cultivation of mindfulness and present moment awareness is such a valuable skill that Yeah.
00:05:53
Speaker
Yeah. So valuable. Greg, can you how do you define mindfulness for people? Because I know we all kind of have our own sort of spin on things. But what how do you define it? And maybe what does it really mean to be present? Because you hear it all the time.
00:06:10
Speaker
ah feel like I say it a lot, but I don't know I always convey the importance of it. Yeah, it's, you know, we've we've had teachers along the way that we've learned this practice from, and Jon Kabat-Zinn was one of the first ones that really, um really resonated for me. And so his his operational definition As you know, being in the present moment, um you know paying attention non-judgmentally with an attitude of curiosity, kindness, and acceptance.
00:06:43
Speaker
Mine is kind of like a variation of that. It's just, it's and simply put, it's it's being aware of what's happening right now in your mind, and your mind in your body, and the world around you.
00:06:55
Speaker
try to do that with an attitude of compassion and acceptance and curiosity. I guess it's It's just what's showing up for you here right now. Can you can you use your awareness to embrace that and be curious and learn go from there?
00:07:15
Speaker
Yeah.
Mindfulness as Healing: Personal Crisis and Recovery
00:07:16
Speaker
what ah What was the event or you know where you started to kind of pick up a book about mindfulness or learn more? Was there sort of like a trigger that led you down that path?
00:07:30
Speaker
Yeah, my own mental health. James back in, gosh, I think it was 2007, 2008, where, you know, a convergence of life events took place that really pushed me to the edge and um ended up experiencing depression and anxiety for the first time in my life.
00:07:49
Speaker
And scariest time of my life, but the best time of my life, if that makes any sense. um because it really prompted me to so want to figure things out and wanting wanting to really be well.
00:08:03
Speaker
um So I just started to to to walk you know a traditional path through um towards greater wellness, talking to my doctor and I'm going to see a naturopath and You know, certainly started to to get online and research different modalities. that and um And yoga and meditation were two modalities that in talking to some friends, they had recommended me trying.
00:08:32
Speaker
I didn't. Oddly enough, at the time, I was in pharmaceutical sales and selling an antidepressant. Oh my gosh. Yeah. so kind of ironic that i I could have probably just reached in my backseat and um started on depressant or went to my doctor to get a prescription.
00:08:49
Speaker
Well, that is a fascinating moment. Yeah. Like you had that choice. It was ironic, but I didn't want to do that. And I, and I don't, I don't frown upon um pharmaceuticals for anybody. I think there's, there's an appropriate medication for people in certain situations. But for me, I just, I knew it was more,
00:09:08
Speaker
within me, it wasn't my external circumstances. I had a little bit of an awareness around that, that it was, it was stuff that was in me that I needed to take a closer look at. And those two practices, yoga and meditation really started me on the path towards learning healing.
00:09:26
Speaker
And, um, quite quickly, both of them had a really significant impact and, I started to see a little bit of light and there was um a break in the
00:09:42
Speaker
The physical, mental, emotional challenges that I was experiencing with with depression and anxiety. And so I thought, geez, you know what? There's something to this. Let me delve deeper. And then it just opened up a can of worms.
00:09:56
Speaker
And I just, i became voracious in terms of my wanting to to learn and to really delve deeper. And and then it just, to this day, i mean, there's been an ebb and flow in terms of my by learning through this, but it's, but it's a daily practice. And, um, I just started to see like, wow, like it's not outside of me.
00:10:18
Speaker
Like, yeah, no it wasn't the stressors. It wasn't the people. It wasn't the job. It wasn't like outside of me. It was in me that I needed to do the work.
00:10:30
Speaker
I can be responsible for my own well-being. like It started to become more evident. Yeah. That's a scary, scary concept. When you start to look inside, you're like, okay, this is so my stuff.
00:10:45
Speaker
Oh, no.
00:10:48
Speaker
Right? like it's good and it's As you know, in working with clients, um that can be a daunting experience for most. when you start to shine the light on on things, all things us.
00:11:04
Speaker
Right. And there's, there's so much content and there's, there's just so much and it can feel like, Oh my gosh, how do, where do I even start with this? You know? So, yeah.
00:11:16
Speaker
Yeah. i had a, um,
00:11:20
Speaker
a somewhat similar experience where I had gone and I got a physical and the doctor was like, you need to get put on high blood pressure medicine because your blood pressure is through the roof. And I'm like, I'm not taking, I'm like, I'm way too young for this. Like what, what else is going on? And around that time I went to a mindfulness class for professionals just for training ah purposes. And I did a body scan and i realized, oh my gosh, I am carrying. So I'm carrying the weight of the world in my body right now.
00:12:01
Speaker
That's what's causing this blood pressure and I need to deal with this. Otherwise, it's going to keep, it's not going to go anywhere until I start working on it and starting to figure out how to so release it in ah in a healthy way and working with it.
00:12:17
Speaker
Amazing. But that's, you know, that led me to, I i find this incredibly helpful now.
Influences and Inspirations in Mindfulness
00:12:27
Speaker
How can I teach this?
00:12:28
Speaker
but So you you went through this experience. At what point did you decide i I can coach this or I can teach this. And what was that like?
00:12:40
Speaker
Well, it's how things show up for us. I think it's, it's just so fascinating. It's, I mean, I've always had kind of a coach mentality. and and think it's just in my nature, it's in my DNA, like just the person that I am. I i think I am a ah helper by nature and I, have a caring way. And, um,
00:13:01
Speaker
so that that's always been with me, but, you know, going through the experience of, you know, experiencing depression, anxiety, and then starting to work with that. And again, I come back to the the formal practices of meditation and yoga that really ah immediately.
00:13:17
Speaker
um there was a little bit of a light bulb moment when i had other people guiding me and I, and I had such great teachers along the way that I felt really supported by, um,
00:13:30
Speaker
um And I just remember thinking, gosh, this is like a big hug. Like this is, and this is really what I need. And this is like, they're, they're just guiding me and, and just how they taught the practices.
00:13:46
Speaker
You know, you have these, these, again, these and insightful moments that, gosh, this, this feels really good. And what, what would that feel like to do that for others? Like, man, That would be really amazing if I could bring this out into the world in some way. So that started with the practices early on. And then i it wasn't long after I was doing the practices that I'm like, you know what?
00:14:10
Speaker
I don't know how this is going to come out into the world, but I do know I need to integrate these practices and bring them out because the world needs this. Yeah. Need this. Yeah.
00:14:22
Speaker
I think, again, with my my personality and and kind of who I am, I'm like, I think this is really well suited and for me to to do on a professional level, not knowing how, but just kind of having that intention and that insight and then letting it unfold.
00:14:40
Speaker
Yeah. Hmm. Was there it So when you, you, you went to a naturopath and they kind of recommended these things, was there a book or was it a teacher or a practice that really lit you up and, and gave you that sort of eureka moment?
00:15:02
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think of two books. I think of, I, Eckhart Tolle, who I, I, I think is a wonderful teacher. I, in the early stages of my so journey, he was one that really resonated now and resonated for me. The power now was like, just, it was just like kind of really eyeopening.
00:15:23
Speaker
And, yeah and then I, um, I took a, i um ah kind of I think it was a life coaching course, integral coaching, ICC in Canada here. And um it was and kind of, ah I didn't get fully certified, but it was a a fairly extensive program. And one of the books they had us read initially was John Kabat-Zinn's Wherever You Go, There You Are.
00:15:48
Speaker
who So those two books and those two teachers, I would say Eckhart initially, and then and then I got into John's work. And then that opened me up to the full Buddhist tradition and the Buddhist practice of mindfulness. And ah just, everything about it resonated. So I started to get curious with different teachers and, you know, ah Joseph Goldstein and Sharon Salzberg and, and on and on these really pioneers of, of mindfulness teaching tradition that really, i just couldn't get enough of it.
00:16:23
Speaker
So yeah. that that really kind of lit the fire for me. Yeah, it's interesting how I don't know, what do they, either they say that the, when the student is ready, the teacher appears and then, you know, the string or progression of teachers that kind of fall, fall in line as you're going on your own path and hearing, you know, one story or one version of things and then another, and kind of building on these layers of things.
00:16:56
Speaker
That's fascinating. Yeah, it's very, i i'd look back on it and it's, you know, curiosity such a key element of mindfulness and it's, it's, you know, when you kind of lean into that curiosity and stay open and if things show up and then you just pull on that thread, as you said, and it, and it just takes you. And if you just allow it, you know, people do show up teachers, people in your life, like it's,
00:17:25
Speaker
Well, you gotta be open to it. This is true. as growing I was trying to, uh, you know, just think of of questions
Mindfulness as a Superpower: Handling Life's Chaos
00:17:36
Speaker
to ask you. And, uh, one of the ones was like, you know, how do you find purpose?
00:17:41
Speaker
Uh, when, when life feels uncertain and chaotic and, you know,
00:17:50
Speaker
In any moment, but, you know, even now, there are people listening that are going to be in situations where there's a lot of uncertainty and life can be quite chaotic.
00:18:01
Speaker
how How does mindfulness help people in those moments? And similar to kind of like our stories and in your experience, but what would you say to that?
00:18:13
Speaker
Oh, man, it's it's and we can go deep. It's cool. I was just on this topic because I think about it every day, as as I'm sure you do.
00:18:26
Speaker
um And i I so I just think that the work we do and getting this out into the world is so vital to help people in so many ways. But like, you know, it's not.
00:18:41
Speaker
Externally, there's events happening. This is what it means to be human. It's things are coming and going all the time and they are extra turbulent now and very uncertain.
00:18:53
Speaker
So, you know, in working with clients, um in having casual conversations, you know, it's Again, you probably had this experience about, you know, you want to stream it from the rooftop because you want people to take this practice in and and integrate it because there are so many benefits, but you have to be mindful of the readiness.
00:19:15
Speaker
Yeah. You know, like, cause some people are just like, you know, because we're so conditioned to look at externally. So back to your question, I think it's, you know,
00:19:28
Speaker
I am more driven now than I have ever been with this practice and bringing it out into the world because it is so imperative to work on on our inner worlds in order to be in ah in a different relationship with our outer worlds. And it does not matter what is happening.
00:19:45
Speaker
Like, this is one of the great gifts, you know, as you develop a practice. And I know you know this, it's like, the more you practice, the more grounded you are in this world.
00:19:58
Speaker
in times of peace and times of chaos. And it's, and it is a superpower I feel. And I, I, I gauge it on a regular basis because, you know, whether it's politics, whether it's, you know, relationships, work-related stuff, just, just the uncertainty and things showing up that really take us out of balance, seeing how the practice works,
00:20:23
Speaker
can bring us into balance and like actually being aware of, oh my gosh, like I have an ability with this thing that has brought me into a bit of uncertainty and dis-ease that I have the ability to bring myself back.
00:20:41
Speaker
And that, i mean, I'm not not always great at it, Like I have my moments when, when I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm just off the rails. And I, and I, I'm really having a hard time bringing it in because it's deeply rooted.
00:20:54
Speaker
yeah got Even just a little bit, you see the capacity. And so when I have those moments personally, my purpose with this practice and bringing it out into the world gets reinforced and it and it just grows.
00:21:09
Speaker
If that makes any sense, it grows with my intention and Like I'm going to do whatever I can in my own way isn people along this path of wellbeing.
00:21:23
Speaker
um I'm guessing we'll talk a little bit about performance because we share this with, with the Ed Peak experience and you know, it's, it's directly connected. You know, if you are well in body and mind and you are in the present moment and you are aware, it's like, whatever you do gets,
00:21:41
Speaker
greatly impacted. Yeah, Julie. So it's all interconnected, but purposes like it continues to grow. And I'm guessing it and it's probably the same thing for you, I'm guessing as well.
00:21:57
Speaker
Yeah, I am. I tell tell some of my clients like I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Bangladesh. And the politics there or the situation could be very volatile.
00:22:15
Speaker
And the pendulum would swing one way, pendulum would swing the other. And then the next day would happen and everyone would dust themselves up and life would continue. to say It just was a pattern, right? Like this is what happens.
00:22:30
Speaker
It gets chaotic. And then the dust settles, the storm settles and we move on. And so the practice to me, you know, in an inner way is I'm allowed to to find my inner strength and calm.
00:22:45
Speaker
in any moment, no matter what is happening around me to echo what you said. And and I can be okay no matter what. I have that ability, whether I choose to exercise it or not, or to catch it when, you know, maybe i go off the rails to where that happens. And it's part of our common humanity, you know, to throw one of the the found or the ah pillars out of MPeek in that.
00:23:15
Speaker
But, um you know, it is a superpower to be able to do that. And to really just it's one of empowerment, I think, where it's like, you know, no matter what's going on around you, matter what happens or you think should happen or whatever, which is our own projection and judgment of things, which people are constantly doing, ah you know, which, you know, that's that's a big part of a practice, too, that I work very hard on is the practice of non-judgment.
00:23:43
Speaker
you know combining these things that you brought up already like curiosity you know what happens when you feel stuck well a really good practice to have is to realize that you're never stuck so that thought is not real it's an illusion and then you have all these possibilities at your disposal if you can see them this is it i that the the scene clearly and and choosing wisely If you were to kind of sum the practice up, I mean, this is really ah kind of a foundation of it. it's It's being able to settle yourself so that you can see what is present and then choose non-habitually how to respond. like
00:24:33
Speaker
it's i I often use this kind of metaphor analogy that like you know a fish doesn't know it's in water. we don't know that we're not our thoughts we don't know that we're not our emotions we don't know that we're not our stories until we bring it out here a little bit even for a moment and there's that glimpse of awareness that this is a passing show my gosh this like how i felt five minutes ago is different than i feel now like
00:25:07
Speaker
happening on the on a daily basis but yeah <unk> it's like we're we're so kind of hooked by it right so that that clarity of seeing is just gonna kind use the word superpower and it's because i think it is i agree with you i don't i don't hesitate to use it to use that word i mean these are skills that exist that have been around for a long time that are accessible um that
00:25:34
Speaker
I don't know. They're out, you know, you're out there, you're, you're teaching, you're, you're coaching, you are you're there doing it. And, you know, there is, but we're so trained.
00:25:46
Speaker
you said it a minute ago. We're so trained looking outward. Yeah, we, I don't even know. Like, yeah, I think there's a percentage, right? Like ah how often we're not present.
Exploring Self-Compassion and Emotional Awareness
00:26:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's like 40, 47%. I think they did a study that went up Harvard in 2010 at 47% the time. This is 47. and ah that I always find it amusing.
00:26:14
Speaker
and you know, I heard it one time from another mindfulness teacher, like, I'm going to, I'm going to be present 100% of the time. And i was like,
00:26:24
Speaker
Good luck. but set but Let me know how that goes. ah You know, ah but yeah, that that process of what you just described, this metacognition in, you know, sometimes i i use the the movie theater metaphor. It's like, okay, just imagine you you're sitting and watching your mind in the story that you're, you know, displaying or projecting on this and start to see it just from a ah different neutral, non judgmental perspective. And then once you start seeing that, and you realize, Oh, my gosh, this is coming from my mind.
00:27:07
Speaker
It's, I'll tell you what it happens, you end up going through these like embarrassment things, these these emotions of shame, and you know, guilt or whatever, like all these things start to bubble up.
00:27:19
Speaker
But it doesn't have to be devastating. Oh man. You know, you, you, I think you mentioned compassion. and Yeah.
00:27:31
Speaker
Like it's such a, that, and I don't know what your path has been with the compassionate, that, that relationship with self and being kinder to to self, but it has been, i mean, I think it's a journey for most, I, for me, for sure. It's been a real challenge to like turn towards myself with,
00:27:46
Speaker
you know, a a softer energy, a more understanding energy. You know, we're strivers and we're doers and and we get things done and we set a bar and, you know, this is how we are and in the West.
00:28:02
Speaker
um And when that bar isn't met, boy, I tell you, that that inner critic can be really, really, really tough. So that you know, the other aspect of just being present with what is, it's like, okay, how are you going to be present with what is? Because that stuff inevitably is present for us, right? Those, that shame, that guilt, that, oh my God, I can't believe I did that.
00:28:25
Speaker
Or, you know, and we can get hooked in that and get lost in that. And that can be that can be a ah real heavy space to be in. So that compassion, i I think is just so, so integral to this.
00:28:40
Speaker
It's ah' interesting. i have been learning more about, often talk about fear and kind of what's underneath fear. But one of the things that I'm learning now is, you know, especially with, um it's it's it's it's not ah just men or women, right? Like there's a lot of shame that is underlying fear.
00:29:05
Speaker
Yeah. And we don't really talk about that. You know, and we don't because we never a lot of times we say me like I didn't go deep enough to discover like that at the root of it, calling it fear.
00:29:22
Speaker
But there's more to it than that. Like it's safer and more manly to call it fear maybe, but there's shame at the root of certain things. And it's like, okay, well, now talk about your inner compassionate coach.
00:29:37
Speaker
Now you have to work with shame and that becomes the practice in the present moment. Which is exactly what you want to do, but it's that ah curiosity and that that's investigative, well, investigative curiosity that uncovers that.
00:29:52
Speaker
Yeah. Without, without trying to change it right. That nonjudgmental piece that like just allowing it to be there and putting your arm around it and befriending it as opposed to pointing your finger at it or, you know, putting it in a headlock and wanting to like, like just get rid of it because it's so pervasive and it can be so uncomfortable that it's like, we're just naturally wanting to get away from that experience. Right. That,
00:30:22
Speaker
So it can be really well-consuming. It just takes time and practice. Yeah. One of the big things, and maybe you could speak to this, Greg, is i early on in my mindfulness practice, i ah realized like just how often I inhibited my emotions and it would just manifest as anger.
00:30:48
Speaker
And so, you know, it'd be like, okay, well, I can befriend my anger, but there's this other stuff I also have to resolve. ah What,
00:31:02
Speaker
I don't know, maybe you could just talk a little bit about, you know, how does mindfulness help you capture that that process and and work with that?
00:31:11
Speaker
Well, I think you know, the more you practice, then your natural capacity to be aware of what is present grows, right? So it's having that stability of mind and that expansiveness that awareness brings to hold, to hold the present moment and whatever is there. So think it, you know, we start with that, that stabilizing attention and concentration to be able to start to see some of this stuff and, and bring ourselves back into balance and be grounded enough to not
00:31:44
Speaker
To be in those uncomfortable moments with, you know, maybe some of the more difficult emotional experiences and see that tendency to want to move, get off the cushion, to to to go to a vice, to like just to soothe yourself in some way and she was and choose to stay, right?
00:32:04
Speaker
um So the awareness of... um the human experience, you start to see that the the range of experience from moment to moment, right?
00:32:15
Speaker
Mental, emotional, physical, So you've got that greater awareness, that greater seeing, and also building the capacity to hold to the best of our ability.
00:32:27
Speaker
So, um gosh, I i you i don't know if you ever do this. You look back on your timeline with the practice and like, we're 10 years ago with with what we're speaking to specifically now. And how was I in those moments when I was feeling anxious or when I was shaming myself?
00:32:42
Speaker
Like, it's just such a different place for me. It's still challenging. Absolutely. But again, like capacity to stay and sit with and feel is so much different, right? So once you get a ah little bit of experience with that and you see that you can do it and you can get through to the other side and it's, it's impermanent, it comes and goes like everything else. It's like, okay, well, what else can I play with here? What else can I use this awareness and this, this compassionate, curious attitude?
00:33:16
Speaker
Okay. What's here now? And now it becomes. Yeah. but I'm going to say fun, but it's not fun. It's... I hear you. know what I'm saying? it's like i i almost I look forward to it because you know what, James? i i i know i'm I know I'm transcending. I know I'm transforming. I know I'm... Is this the word alchemizing?
00:33:39
Speaker
Alchemizing. Yeah.
Mindfulness as Transformation: Alchemy and Growth
00:33:41
Speaker
Alchemy is happening with my awareness. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I can i can have a different relationship to to the difficult moments. And that is like...
00:33:51
Speaker
That's liberation. That's freedom. That's like, that's inner peace. and That's, that's what I will want more of in my life. I just want to be more peaceful and more joyful. And I, I'm going to ride the waves of all that and have the human experience. And it's not always going to be bliss, but like, boy, if I can get out of my way and, and be with myself in a different way, sign me up for more of that.
00:34:15
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, and that's people I find are often aware that they are. They're the problem, like they're the ones getting in their own way, but it's like, how do what do I do about it?
00:34:31
Speaker
You know, and part of why you would pay attention and and want to alchemize it is to, i would call it fun. I do.
00:34:42
Speaker
That has definitely been a transition for me to where, you know, where I might find shame in the past and, and, or whatever, you know, guilt, frustration, resentment, and kind of be like upset or disappointed. Like, Oh man, like that's, that's there. Like ah what's wrong with me? Like, that you know, this fatal flaw that I I'm carrying around with.
00:35:04
Speaker
um or like the imposter syndrome, like, oh, my God, if people knew this, like, oh, what would they do? But now it's it it is. I do have more fun with it. And I think that's ah a much more improved way of looking at it where it's like, oh, look at that.
00:35:19
Speaker
There's some shame around that. Like it's there and like, okay, I know what I can work with this now. This is okay. I see you. I, I, you know, it's like, I've had conversations with myself, like literally allowed. Like I, like if anything can see me right now talking to my inner self, I'm like, but this, but I, but I love it. I love that aspect. I love when it shows up and i'm like, okay, here's an opportunity as opposed to, like you say,
00:35:47
Speaker
Oh, not wanting to be there or thinking, oh man, and this is still happening for me. I've been practicing for some time now and I'm still experiencing this. Like you're not, you must not be practicing right. Or, or like, you're not as far along as you should be like that judgment, as opposed to having that saying, okay, I got, there's still work to do with this. It's still showing up and it's all right.
00:36:09
Speaker
How can I work in the moment? Right. That's, that's a, that's a significant shift in it. I can't tell you when that happened for me, but it, but it's, it's definitely the case now. And, um, it's, it's a much more, um, manageable space to be in or comfortable, uncomfortable space to be in. It's hard to describe it. You know what I'm saying, but.
00:36:32
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the capacity you you talked with sitting with it or the willingness to sit with it or to do something hard or ah to, you know, i often talk about dancing with uncertainty, right?
00:36:47
Speaker
Yeah. But being open to that and not catching yourself when you want to run away or, you know, you feel dis dis-ease and, you know, you want to comfort yourself and and and do something else that may not be healthy or, you know, you're not resolving your communication or these things that are going on in real life. It's like these are things that you can encounter in and work with in a wise way.
00:37:18
Speaker
Yeah. And it's the repetition and the the falling down with it repeatedly and getting back up and just continuing to practice. Like, it's just practice. And think this is why they call it, just keep practicing. This is what I tell people, just, you know, and i we want to get somewhere. We want to, we again, we're conditioned to like, okay, if I do something, I want i want to ah want to get a result, which is, yes, we all want results.
00:37:48
Speaker
And an outcome and we want to feel perhaps differently, but it's like, I try to guide people, like, just try your best to let go of that expectation and that, that wanting to get somewhere and just, just do the basics of the practice and it will naturally unfold for you.
00:38:09
Speaker
And that that's hard for us to wrap our head around, you know?
00:38:14
Speaker
Yes. um i Part of my my work, and I'm sure you've had moments with this too, I was very impatient.
00:38:28
Speaker
And um
00:38:31
Speaker
you know i as I say that to you, I can hear Pete Kirchmer in the back of my head. saying patience is always a good one to practice.
00:38:43
Speaker
Right. And me resisting that so much, like squirming in my seat. Absolutely. ah Because we want it now. Like, you know, like, okay, this ah practice offers you you, know, peace and calm.
00:38:57
Speaker
Okay. Well, I'm not feeling it. Yeah. Well, you got to sit with it. got it. And it's it's one of those things where it's like, all right, so clearly there is value in that.
00:39:12
Speaker
Let's find places to practice, um you know, circumstances, events. and And then, ah you know, as you start to see that unfold and like, okay, I don't need to let my blood boil over this traffic jam or this long line at the store.
00:39:30
Speaker
i can be okay. Like that's getting back to that. This is my space. I'm in control here. Not this external circumstance, which I have no control over. Yeah.
00:39:43
Speaker
and There's a couple of things that come up as you, as you spoke to that. i I think, you know, trust comes up, trust in trust in the practice, trust in the process, trust trust in the natural unfolding again, which is hard to um kind of lean into if we haven't tasted it. Right. And when you taste it in the traffic jam and you see that, oh my gosh, I am, i am not as jacked up as I once would have been.
00:40:10
Speaker
Over that that guy that just cut me off. I don't want to jump over the car and like scream at him. I'm like, i I'm still upset. but it's But it doesn't have the same effect.
00:40:24
Speaker
So I try to remind remind clients, so like, be mindful of the moments that go small shifts. Because, because that's what it is. It's small ships. It doesn't, you don't wake up one day and be like, okay, like I, I resolved most of my issues and I'm, I'm, I'm more skillful in my responses. It's, it's like, it's just, it's drip, drip, drip.
00:40:47
Speaker
And I, and I think, you know, I try to, again, remind clients that, you know, pay attention to the little wins with this and and see how it's showing up in your life, because that's, We don't meditate to become better that are meditators. We meditate and become more mindful so that we can bring it into our lives.
00:41:05
Speaker
So yeah not with intention and with motivation. I think that builds. And I'm guessing you feel the same, how it builds the motivation of the practice. like well blow I saw a video you made on it.
00:41:18
Speaker
And I was like, I got to get Craig on my show. Because it's, I really want to highlight what you said. i mean, that is, those are the wins.
00:41:30
Speaker
And we so often dismiss them, right? These, i don't know, we just don't give them the weight that they deserve. No doubt. without a doubt.
00:41:41
Speaker
And it's, you know, really, really, you know, an element of this is what's happening in the brain. Like, how are we changing our brain with how we're cultivating the practice?
00:41:52
Speaker
add And, you know, when we can, when we can lean into gratitude and have a grateful thought or, you know, a generous act in some way to ourselves or to others, it's like, we don't realize that Our brain is being molded moment to moment.
00:42:08
Speaker
We have this opportunity to actually cultivate different circuits of the brain. So the, thing it's just, I get so dicked out over the neuroscience. It's, it's like the, the but yeah, please, please share. Right. It's like, I can talk neuroscience all day. It's like, oh my gosh, like we should be taught this in grade school. Like the impact.
00:42:32
Speaker
how we think and our actions and what's happening in our brain with all this stuff. It's it's just profound. What, ah for those that aren't familiar, how do you describe the changes in the neuroscience to your clients?
00:42:44
Speaker
I try to keep it basic. It's, you know, I i define neuroplasticity as essentially the brain is is changeable and it it changes with experience, all all experience.
00:42:56
Speaker
So your thoughts, your actions, your beliefs, they're not static. They're not um concrete. So, you know, and I, and i often refer to gratitude. It's, you know, and I take clients through a gratitude practice, you know, be it through a short meditation or, or ah more formal, you know, journaling practice.
00:43:20
Speaker
And I, and I referred to Rick Hansen on this, it talks about you know, of how, you know, like not just thinking about or not just being aware, but like cultivating a different thought or a different action and actually feeling it.
00:43:39
Speaker
Like, like, what does that make you feel? And staying present with that process and that, that I'm not going to get the terms right, but how we can kind of change our,
00:43:51
Speaker
our software, our, our stories, like the, literally the structures of the brain by thinking and acting differently. And that's, so I, I kind of get into that. I try to keep it fairly top level because I'm, I'm, you know, frankly top
The Science of Mindfulness: Neuroplasticity and Change
00:44:08
Speaker
level with this. I don't have a degree in any of this, but I do know the basics and I do know how, how I've experienced it.
00:44:16
Speaker
yeah the um so rick hansen um well he ah the buddha's brain was one one of his books and then hardwiring happiness and um you know how ner i don't know if he coined the term or not but you neurons that fire together wire together But when you start to become aware of your thought patterns and your sort of stress reactivity cycle and how you, you know, you're you're automatically sort of responding to stressors, you might see certain beliefs.
00:44:51
Speaker
Right. So, you know, belief is like your thought fused with like this emotion about something. But we have experiences. And as you become more mindful and you start integrating these practices that you have a different outcome, it goes to a different circuit, you're creating a new circuit, a new belief.
00:45:11
Speaker
And you can even link them to the old belief and the old story. And so now you've diluted the the energetic charge. We were talking about alchemy earlier of this old story. And and really you're shifting into this.
00:45:27
Speaker
There is a new path. Right. there There is a new path forward and you you are creating it. And you can do that consciously with intentions.
00:45:39
Speaker
Herein lies the transformation of the practice and.
00:45:44
Speaker
But it starts with those little things, little things. I've had numerous conversations, you know, with people about, and about the path and people who are some people who have dabbled with mindfulness and others that are, you know, kind of curious about it, but really haven't experienced it. And, you know, and I shed light on kind of my path and to why I'm doing what I'm doing and how it's changed me. It's like, you know, you get the comments like that. That seems like a lot of work and.
00:46:09
Speaker
And it, and it is, it's daily work and it's, and it's not fast moving. This is, I think this is the challenge for most people that come to the practices that they may feel a certain way and they want they want to change a pattern, a belief, a feeling.
00:46:24
Speaker
They want to work with their stress, whatever it is, but they want to know. And, you know, to put the work in. that, you know, it's a nice concept, but like, that's going to take me years and years and years to do this. Like, there's got to be an easier way. I think that's the mindset of a lot of people. And I, it's, it's a hard one. It's a hard one to, and not that I, I sell any of this to anybody, but, um, you know, what are the alternatives?
00:46:56
Speaker
I don't know, it's like kinda, I and kind of grapple with that, that piece. And I, I understand it. I understand it because I, and think we all go through it when we come to the practices, like we want immediate relief, feel something and we want all of we want it now and we want an outcome. And it's like, it's, this is so not that.
00:47:16
Speaker
Yeah. But you can start it at any moment.
00:47:23
Speaker
This is true. You know, that because along you fuck my journey, it was like, all right, there's another way of doing this. This is the moment that I'm deciding, okay, I'm willing to take action to discover more about myself and how I can interact in this world.
00:47:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:46
Speaker
There is a, do you ah pay attention to ah football NFL football? Yeah. So one of the, the team that I root for is Washington and they had this sort of miraculous turnaround ah this year.
00:48:03
Speaker
ah The Washington commanders with their star quarterback, but they hired a coach and the coach that they hired His name is Dan Quinn, and he was the coach of the Atlanta Falcons, who.
00:48:20
Speaker
Famously lost the Super Bowl maybe eight years ago to who do they lose? Oh, Tom Brady and the Patriots. And they they were up like twenty eight to three in the fourth quarter, you know, and, you know, 15 minutes away or whatever from winning a Super Bowl and the team collapsed.
00:48:42
Speaker
and they lost and so people know this story um but what they don't know and i don't know a whole lot about it but i bring it up because i just want to get your your sort of take on it he from what i heard he you know obviously you got to be devastated after such a monumental collapse the the amount of work and effort that you put in to doing well and you get right to that moment and then you fall apart that had to be devastating But what fascinates me is that he apparently went around to other people who have had, don't want say similar moments, but have come back and started to learn like, okay, I want another shot at this. How do i how do I get better?
00:49:28
Speaker
You know? where in in the sport which can be unforgiving right like oh you are a quote unquote loser and i'm not going to um i'm not going to give you another chance he went did some had to do some serious work and was given the job and was heavily criticized like why would you why would you hire this guy he's such a you know he lost the super bowl and everything it To me, it just highlighted, i was incredibly impressed that he was given another chance.
Mindfulness and Performance: Resilience and Learning from Failure
00:50:01
Speaker
But that's, and I've had similar moments in my own sport career too, like where it's like failing spectacularly. And how do you come back from that?
00:50:12
Speaker
And that, to me, we're talking about performance, but mindfulness, that whole resilience piece um was very impactful for me. But maybe you could I don't know, just speak to that and how how you've that's showing up for you or how you teach that.
00:50:29
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, going through the NP program, that was that was a real game changer for me in terms of integrating this into my into my coaching practice. But on a personal level, it's you know it's adhering to that growth mindset and and that shifting of perspective on on failure and really seeing that failure is a part of light.
00:50:53
Speaker
And how failure is how we learn.
00:50:57
Speaker
um So just kind of understanding that, that concept And then kind of reflecting on how I have been with failure. How have I, have I related to moments when I haven't met the objective or I've fallen down spectacularly, whether it be in any area of my life, you know, and the practice of mindfulness to be aware of all of the thoughts and feelings that come with maybe not doing as well as you would have liked to
00:51:29
Speaker
you know, the shame, the guilt and and learning how to how to kind of be present with it. So I think it's it's it's kind of a complex process, but I think it naturally does come with with more practice. You start to expand your awareness and you start to to be open to different perspectives and you start to really gain an insight.
00:51:51
Speaker
into the nature of being human and this is the way it is and it's and it's not a bad thing no leaf is ah i have to get it right all the time this you know the the perfectionism piece it's like how that how that can hold us back right so i think there's a lot of kind of um processing and and and kind of analyzing a bit, just trying to understand the basic principles, but then letting the practice kind of just naturally unfold with that. And I think once you move in that direction and you see it as an opportunity and you say, okay, like there may still be a little bit of shame and I still have it.
00:52:36
Speaker
If I don't make the mark, I still have a command and I still have that judgment. But again, it's it's different for me now. i can I can pause and I can step back and say, you know what? Let's lean into this. Let's feel it. Let's be present with it.
00:52:49
Speaker
And let's use it to learn. but Let's use it to to to grow. And I'm like, as as hard as it is sometimes, James, and you know this, it's like,
00:53:01
Speaker
That's where the work is. It's in the, but it's in the falling down. It's like, okay, like be with the discomfort, but also don't dismiss the fact that you're moving forward. You're growing from this. Like that can really be a lifting attitude and a really, a really challenging experience.
00:53:20
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's,
00:53:23
Speaker
You know, in the example with Dan Quinn, it takes a lot of courage to be willing to kind of conquer, work with that shame of losing and to get back in a way like that you're confident. He's knocking on the door now, you know, and how confidence, I came across this definition, Greg, is the willingness to be socially injured.
00:53:51
Speaker
ah which I really like, you know, it's like you have to if you're in the arena, you know, with 80,000 fans, you have to be confident, right? You're going to get booed and knocked around for sure. Right.
00:54:07
Speaker
But how like if you've been there, though, and and like, you know, you've been in in hockey games, like, man, that's that's pressure. You're in it and you're going to get knocked around and you better tough because you're going to sometimes you're going win and sometimes you're not.
00:54:26
Speaker
And it's OK. But, you know, like the yeah the wind is that you are willing to be in there and participate like that's huge. You know, good on you. Like, you know, I don't think a lot of times people give themselves enough credit or, you know, when they get knocked down, they get defeated.
00:54:44
Speaker
They're worried about what other people's what other people might say, right, or other people's judgment. So, you know, the practice of non judgment is being aware of how many times you're, you know, you judge others, but how hard you are in yourself, which is much, much harder, I would say.
00:55:01
Speaker
Let me ask you this, do you, do you ever reflect on your path and, and kind of lean into that, um, your journey through this, all the ups and downs and have you been able to write really like say, man, like I got courage, I've got strength. I have been knocked down and, and where I was then and where I am now, it's like, man, I've come a long ways. And have you ever been able to, to do that on, on your journey?
00:55:29
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, whether it was, i mean, there was definitely moments in golf, you know, where it was like, had a spectacular collapse in a tournament and and then came back in the same tournament and, and performed very well.
00:55:46
Speaker
Didn't win it, but did, did really well. It was very happy. ah I did not. i But in that case, I was really hard on myself.
00:55:58
Speaker
I just I really beat myself up and practiced, you know, out you know, till my hands bled and was just punishing. And there was just I didn't realize there was another way to do that. I thought that's what you had to do.
00:56:11
Speaker
But then in life, wanna mention one of the things you said, meeting the mark or missing the mark. you know Sometimes we miss the mark. And if you're being compassionate, you're able to give yourself that feedback, which I've since and peak in learning about mindfulness and and stress reduction and these things, being more compassionate with myself and realizing like, okay, I've crashed the car or I've had this major life event That is huge, right? Like, so like, you know, and for example, going through a divorce.
00:56:47
Speaker
But nothing that's happened is can will define me unless I let it. right so i To your point, like you can begin again. right like The next moment is the next moment.
00:57:01
Speaker
And you can start to write a new story. it's You just shift your perspective. and and How do you want to be? How do you want to show up? And that's a question I'll often ask myself. Okay, this is the situation.
00:57:15
Speaker
What's the story? How do I want to change it? like how would If I could change it, how would I want to show up? How do I want to be? And I think that's really empowering and that that takes an effort.
00:57:29
Speaker
um But that's, did I answer your question? bad No, no, it's it perfect. It's perfect. Yeah. I also thought of the letting go pieces you were talking about, Dan Quinn. And it's like, you know, just with athletics, you know, it's, we have to have short memories.
00:57:47
Speaker
We have to be able to let go of what's happened. Yeah. playing and and And lost in that story and judging and I should have, would have, could have type thing. It's like,
00:58:01
Speaker
Man, how are we going to be in the present moment and bring hard about ourselves to whatever we're doing? So that letting go piece is a huge element. Yeah, i mean, you're in that ah Ted Lasso, like go be a goldfish.
00:58:18
Speaker
hey And like, you know, you play at Hockey East. You got games that are usually back to back. You can't dwell on the last game. Yeah.
00:58:30
Speaker
You got to move them on and be present to the next game. Without a doubt. I, I, just, I'm very much inspired by but professional athletes that have to do this on a regular basis and and they're getting paid well and there's wonderful perks that come with what they do, but, but you know, the job they do in and of itself is,
00:58:51
Speaker
they have to yeah i mean that and that i think that separates the great from the good is those players that are able to really be in the moment and and and you know bring their best game to the field the rink whatever it is and then you know it unfolds as it unfolds and then letting that go and moving on to the next day and A lot of times these players are playing back to back three, four games in week or, you know, football is a little bit different, but still you have to be able to park that and refocus yourself to, to this moment.
Future Directions: Workplace Wellness and Personal Growth
00:59:29
Speaker
Do you find yourself, Greg, um,
00:59:35
Speaker
like where is your practice led you now? Like as it evolves?
00:59:41
Speaker
Good question. Um,
00:59:46
Speaker
Gosh, it's, it, on a personal level, it's like, I feel like I'm really ready. i had some really big insights with respect to some of my deeper stuff that, you know, without getting into it too much, just the things that hold me back and the things that, you know, some of my traumas and pains and, a ze
01:00:11
Speaker
uh, uh, ego related stuff. All that. i I just feel like I'm ready to, to delve deeper, um, on that end of things on a, on a professional level.
01:00:23
Speaker
um
01:00:26
Speaker
i you know I'm trying to find a balance between allowing allowing things to show up, which which they have. and i'm you know i I mentioned to you before we started about doing this this job working with construction workers out in BC, and that job is coming to an end at the end of this month. It's been three and a half years that I've been going back and forth and working to help the mental health of construction workers. um Prior to that, I was on ah on an MP path. I was just starting to kind of get into working with athletes and And then this showed up and I'm like, okay, I think this is what I need to do. So moving out of this phase, there's another opportunity that's presented itself. And I think it's, I keep coming back to workplace wellness and working with the practice of mindfulness ah in workplace to both both for wellbeing, managing stress, anxiety, but also the performance piece.
01:01:22
Speaker
Like really teaching people to to hone their attention and their focus and to develop their emotional intelligence and giving them the tools in the workplace. And again, it's all interrelated. So I think that's where I'm probably heading next um is deeper into the workplace with this.
01:01:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny. I mean, there's such a need for that. And it's it's so wonderful that you're doing that work. um But sometimes people ah say to me, you know, like well, do you just work with athletes? And I'm like, oh, no, I mean, your your performance might be being a dad.
01:02:00
Speaker
Exactly. Or your job or just balancing life. You know, it's that it's different for everybody. I love that about the MP program. It's, you know, and Pete did such a great job at really making that clear that performance is like you say, it's, it's, you're a human being. You're performing in some way on a regular basis, whatever, it you know, so how can you bring your best self to whatever you're doing?
01:02:30
Speaker
And there's practices that can allow you to do that. And, They're interrelated. It's your well-being and your performance go handin hand in hand. Yeah, absolutely.
01:02:41
Speaker
ah Greg, is there one last ah positive message you want to leave our listeners with that inspires you or?
01:02:54
Speaker
something you would like them to take away from yeah your wisdom? as you were as you were just speaking there, the word possibilities came to mind. Yeah. ah so in In really tough times, you know, it's it's not outside of ourselves. There are things that we can do within ourselves to cultivate a different landscape within so that we can navigate the comings and goings of the uncertainty of all of the things. And I come back to superpower. I think this is a good way to end it on, on the word superpower because it's, it's, I know it, I just get so jazzed. I get so excited, you know, thinking of possibilities for people. It is work and it is a, it's like, how do we've got this one life to live James and how do we want to live it?
01:03:48
Speaker
Like, Yeah, it's all a personal choice, but but but there's so many possibilities for us with this practice and um various modalities, but specifically with mindfulness we're speaking to. I just I'm really hopeful.
01:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's a beautiful
Conclusion and Contact Information
01:04:06
Speaker
way to end it. And, you know, to just people listening to this and or, you know, however they're consuming it, whether it's the audio or or video, ah one of the things that they'll pick up on, Greg, and it really was the first time that I worked with you.
01:04:24
Speaker
Your presence is is ah is very wonderful. Like it's you exude. um
01:04:33
Speaker
a lot of the traits, right? mean When you come across certain teachers and people, you, there are differences, right? You can tell like who's doing work and who's not. Um, but you, you really shine and, uh, your presence is really wonderful. and And we were very fortunate to have you on to, to share your insights on these practices. So thank you for being here, man. i gosh, I'm grateful. I really am James. And, uh, that that's a wonderful compliment and it's,
01:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, it's and it's the it's the practice. We have our essence, but it's the practice that has, you know, brought a lot of this stuff to the forefront for me and how I come out into the world. So thank you for that. And thank you for the opportunity.
01:05:13
Speaker
Again, I love to geek out on this stuff. So it's been it's been an awesome experience. And thank you for what you do in this world. but Like, I know you're doing a lot of work. I was on your website and taking in your experience, your journey. And yeah, keep doing good work.
01:05:27
Speaker
Well, appreciate it, man. What? a Where can people find you? What is your your website if they want to work with you? Because you're you're open for business, right? I i am. i am um it's So gregklimcoaching.com is my website.
01:05:43
Speaker
And ah that's my handle on Instagram. On Instagram, a little more than Facebook, but I do have a gregklimcoaching Facebook page as well. So okay yeah, gregklimcoaching.com.
01:05:57
Speaker
Well, you're an excellent coach and I will link to your website and your Instagram and Facebook so people can find you there. ah But thank you, Greg, for coming on. Appreciate it Good to be with you, James. Take care and um we'll be in touch.
01:06:12
Speaker
Sounds great. Thank you. Thank you so much for tuning in today and being with us. May you find joy, flow, and adventure on your journey. And if you got something from it, please like, share, and subscribe and or comment. It means a lot. Thank you.