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When Caregiving Changes Retirement: Planning Before the Crisis - with Raymond Lavine
5 Plays9 days ago
Retirement is supposed to feel like freedom… until caregiving enters the picture.
Raymond Lavine is a caregiving planning advocate who helps families prepare for long-term care realities before a crisis hits. He’s the host of the podcast Planning with Purpose: The Caregiver’s Blueprint and co-author of the Amazon bestseller Empathy and Understanding in Business.
Raymond shares how his parents’ experiences shaped his work, why even affluent families can get squeezed by care costs, and what changes—logistically, emotionally, and financially—when one person needs ongoing support. You’ll also hear practical ways to reduce stress even if you’re not ready to buy a plan today: decluttering, home modifications, organizing documents, and building habits that make aging at home safer.
Key Topics:
- Why families delay long-term care planning until a crisis
- How caregiving reshapes retirement for everyone involved
- The hidden logistics: meds, appointments, finances, bathing, transfers, and constant worry
- Why “having enough money” still doesn’t mean care won’t disrupt your life
- Planning choices: where you want care, who will manage it, and how you’ll pay
- Using care support to stay social, travel, and avoid getting “stuck”
- What people underestimate most: caregiving is “invisible” until it’s not
- Simple stress-reducers: declutter, improve lighting, add grab bars, swap knobs for levers
- Keep documents and passwords in one place (digital + paper)
Thoughts to ponder
- If caregiving started tomorrow, what would change first in your life?
- Who would coordinate care in your family—and do they know that?
- What would you want to protect most: dignity, independence, relationships, finances?
- What’s one small home change you could make this month to reduce risk?
Action steps (try this in 7 days)
1) Answer the “3 Care Questions.”
- Where would I want care?
- Who would manage it?
- How would we pay?
2) Create a “one place” folder.
- Health card/insurance info, key contacts, legal documents, medication list, passwords (securely stored).
3) Do one safety upgrade.
- Add a grab bar, improve lighting, remove a rug, or swap a doorknob for a lever.
Connect with Raymond:
Website: https://lavineltcins.com
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Transcript
Rethinking Retirement: Beyond Leisure
00:00:03
Speaker
Retirement. That's what we're all aiming at, right? But exactly what does that mean? conjures up visions of endless days of golf, drinks with little umbrellas in them on a tropical beach, feet up reading a book.
00:00:16
Speaker
Is that what it's all about? I don't think so. Life would get pretty dull after a while without anything meaningful to do, don't you think? I'm Jackie Doucette, and I'm on a mission to discover exactly what life is like beyond retirement.
00:00:30
Speaker
Join me while I chat with people who've already done it, who've retired to something rather than from something. Let's find out together exactly what's waiting for us when we say goodbye to that nine to five.
Navigating Caregiving in Retirement
00:00:51
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Beyond Retirement. I'm your host, Jackie Doucette. Retirement's supposed to be a chapter defined by freedom. But for many families, that freedom gets complicated when caregiving enters the the picture. And what's really tough is that most people don't talk about long-term care until a crisis forces a decision.
00:01:11
Speaker
Today we're going to talk about how caregiving can reshape retirement, how planning ahead can protect dignity, reduce family conflict, preserve the choices before the pressure's on.
Raymond's Personal Caregiving Journey
00:01:22
Speaker
My guest today is Raymond Levine.
00:01:24
Speaker
He's a caregiving planning advocate who helps families prepare for long-term care realities before a crisis hits. His perspective is both professional and personal, shaped by his own parents' experiences.
00:01:38
Speaker
He's also the host of the podcast Planning with Purpose, the caregiver's blueprint, and he's the co-author of an Amazon bestseller, Empathy and Understanding in Business. Raymond, thanks for joining me today.
00:01:49
Speaker
Thank you for having me on your program, Jackie. I'm honored. Let's start by giving the listeners a little bit more about you. Can you ah share what you do to help people and what got you started with it?
00:02:04
Speaker
Well, like a lot of people in my area of of long ah long-term care planning, um I have a history of the not being a personal caregiver, but seeing my um a father ah three times in his career ah that had long-term caregiving ah needs. and when I say long-term, I mean, and ah usually,
00:02:31
Speaker
The way he did it, with when he did caregiving, it was spectacular. um He yeah um ah fell off a horse and broke his hip and his and his arm, and he was out for a year and a half. Now, and he was he was he was a lawyer. My mother was a lawyer. in fact, they were in practice together. So that disrupted both their practices and their lives.
00:02:54
Speaker
um And then the second and third time, ah he had had a severe heart attack. And again, for long periods of time. And my parents were not insurance buyers, other than what they needed to own, you know, ah um business insurance, home insurance, car insurance, things like that.
Financial Benefits of Long-Term Care
00:03:14
Speaker
But they yeah really, they weren't necessarily life insurance buyers. They weren't certainly, um and it was a bit early for long term care. They weren't long term care ah buyers. But uh the final time that my father had his last heart attack and then that was the beginning of the end it took about two and a half years for him uh from his heart attack to uh where he actually died but it was an intense two and a half three years my mother bought a long-term care plan um and the reason she did is they they both tried to get long-term care benefits
00:03:49
Speaker
And he ah didn't qualify, but she did. And she was in her early 70s. But she, at that point, said, even though can financially afford to pay for care, this would be a good idea. then when she needed, and my mother died a couple of years ago and she was 103. It's a long story, but how I got into this. But a lot of people have had some sort of caregiving experience um experience or they've or they or they've observed.
00:04:23
Speaker
And ah so she used her plan for 18 years and it more than paid for whatever the premiums that she paid, it more than paid um for the 18 years. And she was a classic example of how somebody, you know, might use long-term care where she started off with ah just a you know, having caregivers and, you know, so many hours a week.
00:04:49
Speaker
And then ah um as she got older and more frail, um cognitively, she was in good shape, but physically, she just more and more needed a lot of ah care assistance. And even though financially, and when I say my mother was affluent, we're not talking about $3 million. dollars You know, that's usually the thing to say, well, you know, And this is where financial planners or or wealth advice said, well, you don't need it.
Comparing Caregiving Costs and Lifestyle
00:05:16
Speaker
You have enough wealth. You doubt ah you don't have it because you may have the wealth, but wealth needs income or people need income for the lifestyle. And she certainly had the wealth for um ah ah for her lifestyle and caregiving. However, she was an estate planning attorney and she was practical. She said, look, you know, even even even if I could, I'm really better off having transferring some of the risk to somebody else to pay for my care.
00:05:48
Speaker
And, ah you know, just to give me an example of, you know, what her care costs, if you figure in in West los Angeles um and having hour caregiving at fifty sixty dollars an hour um You know, do do the arithmetic, you know, 30 days times all the hours times 365 days.
00:06:12
Speaker
That's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. So that's the that's the that's the arithmetic of it. And in your program, you know, where you talk about, you know, um ah retirement.
00:06:23
Speaker
um You're in Canada, I'm in the United States, and I will just be blunt. You don't wanna be poor in America. You really don't. And even if you think that you have the funds, if you need caregiving services and the cost of care, you know, I mean, this this this is an epidemic in this country for childcare.
Planning for Unexpected Caregiving Needs
00:06:45
Speaker
you know people say you should have children but they're not inexpensive just you know uh and then if but if both people work or whatever you know the family lifestyle it's expensive and when i mean expensive uh i'm not talking about uh uh five thousand a year i mean it could be twenty thirty forty thousand just for just for child care um and think think about it uh uh um if you need caregiving you know it might be a short time or it might be 18 years you know depending on you know uh uh what the situation is for caregiving so it's expensive and then you have that on top of your lifestyle
00:07:26
Speaker
um And if, let's say, ah your your your caregiving is needed before before you retire, or you know if you have a spouse or partner, um it's kind to it may cost them their career, or certainly ah there might be ah a long period of time where they're not making income. And so to own a long term care plan, that's why I advocated and I don't just advocate it because I just want to sell insurance and and and make a commission. I want to do it because I think it's some it's important. It's what people they know they don't want it.
00:08:02
Speaker
lot of people don't want it because, you know, here's something else, too. When you think about you know retirement planning or um or caregiving planning, it isn it isn't fun and it isn't something that's immediate. It takes time.
00:08:18
Speaker
And so there's no immediate gratification. you know A vacation or you but want to buy something, um you know a car or or um um you know a clothes or something, that's an immediate gratification. I'm in the delayed gratification business. you know And and then this is something that I want people you know to say, oh, you yeah you'll need caregiving, but it's very likely before you die, you will need caregiving, whether in the home.
00:08:47
Speaker
or in a or in or a care care facility. And you know what also is astonishing to me, and the two things. First, it's astonishing to me that when people have been in a caregiving situation or or they've seen it, it doesn't really occur them say, gee, maybe should do something about it.
00:09:06
Speaker
Just the same as retirement. You don't wait till a week before you retire say, gee, I think I need a retirement plan. um you know it's it's ah it's ah it's a gradual It's a gradual process. And the other thing is that people say, well, it's expensive. And I will, let me also say, long-term care benefits in the united plans in the United States in the early years,
00:09:31
Speaker
There became ah a big problem when you had the financial meltdown in 2008, 2009. It disrupted traditional long term care plans. So premiums went up and and a lot of people were very upset about that and still hold that grudge and feel that, you know, they bought a plan and the insurance companies lie. They didn't they didn't really lie, but they were.
00:09:54
Speaker
But, you know, And you can blame it on us that that sold it sold these plans who said ah there has not been a rate increase and it's unlikely and then the unlikely happened. Now, plans have changed where they' um the actuarially and the plans are more stable.
Long-Term Care Plan Options and Misconceptions
00:10:15
Speaker
um And in some cases, premiums have gone down and there are a variety of different plans. There's hybrid plans, there's a traditional, which is not as popular now as as the hybrid. But what is ah more popular in the United States are short-term care plans that in many situations can be as good or better than, you know, if you if you get a longer-term plan. um they can They can be terrific plans at, at I think, reasonable premiums.
00:10:44
Speaker
That's a long answer to to to to your question. So when I started, I commented that retirement's supposed to be freedom.
00:10:58
Speaker
What kind of things, let's let's get into why we need the the long-term care plans instead of you know what they might cost. we We all know that they're going to be expensive, but life is expensive.
00:11:10
Speaker
What changes when caregiving comes on the scene when you're in retirement for both you and the other person, if you're not the one receiving the care? Well, depending on we know what the issue is, everything, everybody's life is changed. Those that need caregiving and those that will be responsible for caregiving, everything changes.
00:11:33
Speaker
um And it's it it can start with the the basic, ah home you know what's your home like? Meaning, you know have you done home improvements? Does it need home modification? Does it need grab bars, lighting? Do you have rugs that you could trip on? um What kind of furniture you have? What kind of bed?
00:11:56
Speaker
ah ah How's your bathroom laid out? can you you know how How can you bathe? um And it's just a multiple multiple thing. and in In a sense, the the spouse or partner, if you have one or friend, ah ah they have to do a lot of things that maybe, you know, that you know that you normally do just as you do for it do for a child. But you have all the multiple thing. You may have to take take care of their financial situation, write the checks, ah take care of, make sure, you know, whatever, you know, if CDs or bonds come due, that you got to do you got to do something about that.
00:12:33
Speaker
um there are um um you know You have to think about medication. What kind of medication? Are they taking it properly? um Doctor's appointments.
00:12:45
Speaker
And so you know it just goes on. And then there's the shopping and the cleaning and the washing and the bathing and the and transferring somebody from one place to to another and putting their clothes on, reminding. And you do this day after day and it's exhausting.
00:13:01
Speaker
And i've that I've seen, personally, we have some dear friends where he was dying of cancer. And the last year was just a nightmare where um she worried about, you know, he'd get up and then he'd fall.
00:13:14
Speaker
And so and ah one time he fell and then he had to go to a care center because he he broke his leg. ah So youre ah it even if even if everything is routine, the caregiver is always in worry mode, always.
00:13:29
Speaker
you know ah ah will they You know, can I leave them alone? If I can't leave them alone, you know, can can they go to adult care care center for a while? um Can I get a friend? maybe Maybe a monitor, but all these things you have that you have to plan.
Maintaining Lifestyle While Caregiving
00:13:47
Speaker
so um but ah let me leave But let me also get to something, a story, a personal story where ah the there ah the care, get you you still have a life even if you need caregiving. And I'll give my father as an example. he As time went on in his last, cell I mean, he was in terrible shape.
00:14:07
Speaker
However, they liked to travel. And so they my mother, you know, scheduled where they usually was say yeah cruise. They can go on a cruise, you know, just because you need caregiving doesn't mean you you don't have a life. It really doesn't. I mean, and and I know that, you know, living in Gig Harbor, ah somehow it seems like we moved it ah into a place where a lot of older people, or we got older and everybody else did, too. But I, you know, you see people with canes, walkers. and you know uh you go to the we go to the diner and uh uh it's either the man the man or the wife uh that's uh uh in in a wheelchair or i'm not aware in a walker and they're and and and they are helping each other so it doesn't mean that you can't go out you know uh and and have social activities it doesn't mean you can't travel it's just that you just gotta have uh
00:15:01
Speaker
um um either people that are helping you so that you can that that you can travel and you can travel and you can do things. ah But you need but you need ah care, either the spouse or the partner or if you travel someplace like you know, here in Washington State, a lot of people go to Arizona or New Mexico.
00:15:23
Speaker
um You know, warmer weather states and they'll spend, you know, three, four months. So if you have a care plan, you can travel there. You um and if you don't believe me, yeah when people are on planes and then they get get on and off, you see the conga line of wheelchairs.
00:15:42
Speaker
And so you can hire caregivers if you own a plan, you can hire caregivers anywhere, you know, to come in and help you. So what I'm what my point is that just because you need care doesn't mean you're stuck in your home. You could, in fact, it's almost the opposite.
00:16:00
Speaker
You can get unstuck if you have somebody you know, that is caring for you, that you that they can dress you they can, ah you know, that you can buy people over because the house is so ah um has housekeeping, um or you can or or you can go out. But if you don't have have that, you know, that's, that's when, you know, people feel depressed and lonely, or they say, gee, you know, I can't find my shirt, or I can't, you know, wear a set to set, if you have somebody helping you, you can you can get out and have a social life or a travel life.
00:16:33
Speaker
That actually leads into my next question. um When you're talking to people and they're hesitating about getting long-term care plans or putting them in place, what choices do they think that they're going to have and then discover that they don't have if they don't have a plan in place? And you're talking about that, the the getting out and being able to do things. They think that they're not going to be able to do that.
00:16:59
Speaker
But then it turns out that if they don't have the plan in place, that's when they really can't do it. Well, I mean, if they if they have enough resources, you know, or they have, you know, family, children, friends, there there are a lot of things that family and children and friends ah ah will will do do for them.
00:17:17
Speaker
you know, you could, you know, there are families that have support systems, ah but somebody's got to organize it. And then, you know, you got and you got to schedule because, you know, people are working and most people you need to need to work to make money. um you know, ah then you have a scheduling issue.
Family Dynamics and Caregiving
00:17:34
Speaker
If you don't and then you have to hire you know a a ah um a caregiver from a licensed care or you know you have somebody, somebody knows somebody, you know, you you know it used to be when I first got in this business, it was like 15, 20 dollars an hour.
00:17:53
Speaker
it's It's harder and harder to find somebody at $15, $20. You know, it might be $30 or $40, depending on, you know, whether it's an agency, if it's a friend and they're willing to, ah you know, ah to take some ah um stipend, you know, that's great, but it ah it isn't necessarily reliable. And so this, again, disrupts everybody's schedule. And um ah so, yeah, if see just because you even if you own a long-term care plan or you don't own a long-term care plan, care plan.
00:18:24
Speaker
ah the ah Family and friends, if you if you have them, then have to take the responsibility and you have to use your own resources, you know which means your your cash flow. And so this is something where you know wealth advisors and financial advocates, ah financial planners, they all say, well, you have enough. But then ah ah if your care expenses start to exceed you know your lifestyle, you have to you have to start selling assets.
00:18:53
Speaker
and that's and that and that's painful and there are people that you know have planned in the retirement plan that they want to uh leave their home or or or assets to their children well if you know if you need caregiving long enough you're not going to have as many assets if any and i've i've been on podcasts or i've you know and i have clients that will will will tell me stories of the reason I purchased this is because ah my parents ran out of money and so I didn't get the inheritance I thought I would or at the home or other
00:19:28
Speaker
yes You have to you know that's your choice is either you ah have a plan and you have and you have known resources or you have to start using other resources. Now, there are other ways you can do it. i mean, you can do a reverse mortgage um and sometimes people say, well, you know, if depending what the premiums are, one of the things I say is if you have a family and they like you,
00:19:51
Speaker
ask them to contribute, ask them to contribute. When I say contribute, ask them to contribute to the premium in order. So and and it's it's a good investment for everybody. It really is, because if it doesn't, you know, if you say we can hire a licensed care agency or if they're in a care facility we know that uh uh if it's a good uh care center or we have uh care uh people that uh uh you know that we we we like and and are reliable uh it means that you know then we can uh continue our careers whatever whatever whatever is your career
00:20:32
Speaker
So you suggest you know contributing either you know either in ah time or effort or contributing to the premiums. When you look at um families and and getting a plan or or looking after the long-term care blueprint for for the life,
00:20:52
Speaker
What do people generally underestimate the most? The the logistics of the whole care process, um the emotions that are going to be involved, the relationships among the people that are involved. what Where do the problems rise?
00:21:06
Speaker
Well, let me summarize that. And I am alluded to it earlier, is that um most of us are not you know don't take courses in caregiving.
00:21:18
Speaker
unless you you know use you're in in you know the healthcare field. Most of us, ah I mean, a lot of lot of us really don't know that much about parenting. you know We can read ah books on it, but a lot of us you know really don't you know have to learn about parenting. And even ah and even though we sort of have more of an experience about parenting, because most of us started off as children and had parents or whatever whatever form it may be. But caregiving is not something that it usually is in people's consciousness. This is my experience. It's just not in people's consciousness. And
00:21:55
Speaker
and Where does it where does the consciousness come in It comes in because either ah um individually, you you have a caregiving situation. You surgery.
00:22:07
Speaker
situation yeah yeah ah you have a surgery yeah You sprain your ankle. um um yeah ah you know you you ah You have some so some illness where you just can't do things yourself. You've got to have somebody to help you. so somewhere you know and But even then, the the caregiving consciousness doesn't come in because it's usually short term.
00:22:34
Speaker
and maybe you can get yourself through it or maybe somebody, is's somebody you know, for short term. But caregiving, people don't think of it in the long term. Some reasons are because it's sort of invisible. Unless, you know, you pay attention to it, caregiving is is invisible. And this is the worst thing ah ah for those that need caregiving is that there's several things that people do feel and it's it's written about, but I don't know if if if they really feel is that If you need caregiving, you feel invisible, if people aren't around you and taking care of it.
00:23:09
Speaker
And I also guarantee you that you feel vulnerable, you'll really feel vulnerable. Now I've had some ah severe um health issues. And when I do, I feel very vulnerable.
00:23:23
Speaker
And the good news is I have a a great family and, you know, that can encourage me. But I've i've been, ah ah um um you know, had depression and I've had, you know, and I and i felt very very
Creating a Caregiving Plan
00:23:36
Speaker
vulnerable. How am I going to get myself through this?
00:23:42
Speaker
Excuse me. I i know that it it can be tough. It can be hard for for the retiree thinking about the future. um I know I've had conversations personally about who I want taking care of me and and that sort of thing. And there are different ideas. Some people say, you know, I want my family around me. know, if I'm you know, in my last days, you know, whatever it might be, however long it might be that I need extra care, I want my family around. Then there are other people who are saying, well, I don't want them to be burdened by that. I want them to have their life and be free to do things. And those are the people I think that that sort of understand the the extent of what long-term caregiving
00:24:29
Speaker
is And it's hard to, I think, reconcile that in a family because you're going to have both sides of that showing up. People want to help. People want to be there. And then there are going to be people who say, you know, I've got nothing. I've got nothing to give.
00:24:46
Speaker
There's a template ah to to this. um And the template is that You've got to plan in advance and planning in advance, especially for something in that you you hope won't happen or you don't want to happen.
00:25:01
Speaker
And so you you know and and and so so so you delay it. And you and ah a lot of times people will wait, you know, ah that they have a problem. Say I've had phone calls where people will say, ah well, I'm not I don't need the long term care. I don't need to want the long term care plan myself. But my my my mother, my father needs needs it. and they need And they're coming back from the hospital. They need it right away. and I said, well, there's just nothing I can do unless there are. i mean, if they have assets, I can i can get them a long-term care plan, even if they have no help. But they've got to have some assets to do it. So I i can, if they have the patience and are willing willing to listen, I can help them. But if not, um there's nothing...
00:25:44
Speaker
Then it's social services. ah Then it's Medicaid. Then it's, you know, ah somebody else that will say, yeah, we'll do this for you, but we'll make the rules. And Americans don't, you know, they always say, we don't want people to tell us what to do. But ah there are three three things in ah in thinking about caregiving. First of all, you know, yeah and again, there's planning in advance.
00:26:08
Speaker
And what ah ah before I even say what the three three things um are about, it's important that, you know, you don't have to do it all at once. You know, you can start with, you know, what do I want my caregiving to do?
00:26:22
Speaker
um do Do I really think I have enough resources? If I don't, perhaps i then I should get a long term care plan ah that maybe doesn't pay for everything. You know, the premiums is affordable or, you know, ah tolerable.
00:26:37
Speaker
So I got that. So I got, I have that in place. But, you know, the three things you have first to have, where do I want my care? Do I want it at home? Is that important to me? Do i want to be in a care center? The second is, who's going to be responsible for my care?
00:26:53
Speaker
And, and, and, and, and the and the third thing is, which I alluded to is, how are you going to pay for it?
Living Well with Pre-Existing Conditions
00:27:00
Speaker
Because, you know, Caregiving, ah you know, we can talk about the nobility of caregiving. We can talk about, you know, how much fun retirement can be and all the things. and and i And I get back, you can still have a life. You can still do things even if you have yeah some health issue or, ah ah you know, there are a lot of people, I mean, long before, you know, retirement that have pre-existing health conditions. They have diabetes. ah they ah lot Many people now have neurological diseases.
00:27:31
Speaker
um Or people that you know just have ah um um pre-existing conditions because they have you know something in their DNA where they have some health some health issue. Heart issue, cognitive, neurological. there ah There are a lot of things that ah you know people can live a full life, they just but they do have a pre-existing condition.
00:27:53
Speaker
So i I went on your website and I did the little questionnaire to figure out what my predicted condition care needs would be. So it was ah it was kind of interesting, actually. and What was your experience with that? What did you what did you think about it?
00:28:09
Speaker
yeah It went really well. it It was really easy to follow. And you I was a little bit surprised with the results that came out. But I also have to think about the fact that you're doing it based on U.S. dollars and U.S. care, that sort of thing. But came out and told me that my likelihood of needing long-term care is about 67%.
00:28:31
Speaker
But it's not going to start until I'm about 87. So i'm I'm happy with that. But then i i was going to say, but but then the the cost is kind of ah kind of staggering.
00:28:45
Speaker
the The cost of the care, even for just that you know four years that they're anticipating I need it, it's going to be quite extensive. It is. It is. And that's why, you know, ah that's a a water lily that I subscribe to that anybody, you know, that goes to my website can do it. There's no fit no fee for it. ah you ah ah to get To get an idea, because I don't want to scare people, but I certainly want to get them to be aware to say, ah you can't you can't wait. In other words, you can't wait ah until you're older to do something. You've got to do it
00:29:22
Speaker
It's in your interest and money to do it earlier for two two reasons. one And it's all about money. it's One is yeah your health and the other is premiums are a lot less.
00:29:33
Speaker
And the way I do, it's unlikely, not ah sure, that whatever plan you yeah you you own, it's unlikely that there'll be a premium increase, but it's not.
00:29:43
Speaker
You know, it's not precisely guaranteed, but they but the way they're designing plans, ah the the they understand, you know, what what they did wrong before and they've and they've corrected it. Now, there may be something else that comes along that is unknown. The other thing that ah when I first got started in this business,
00:30:04
Speaker
is that quality, you know, ah no matter how much medical information you got, then they, it took, ah sometimes it took two, three, four months ah to go through underwriting, it's much more efficient, that, ah that, and that upset and annoyed people. The other is that sometimes there were things that would show up and in um health records that they, you know, that I, ah that I didn't know.
00:30:27
Speaker
and they would be declined or they'd get raided and that upset them. And and and sometimes there weren't you know alternative products. There are now. ah The other thing is that now I have programs where if I get enough information, then I can i can ah through the insurance company to find out what were your most what plan is most likely to approve you because that's what upsets people is it's they may they may be you know it's like an investment say yeah I put my money in this investment and it didn't and it didn't go well so they're upset so they say well I'm never going to do it again well this is sometimes what happens they got declines of well you know my health is good enough um that they
00:31:10
Speaker
I'm entitled to be, you know, that the insurance company should insure me. that the um it's it's It's the opposite. The insurance company decides, you know, who they want to insure, what risks. So I can do it more efficiently, but also the insurance carriers are much more efficient about what kind of medical records to decide whether they will um um offer offer that they will offer a plan. So it's more, it's more efficient than it was, uh, uh, 15, 16 years ago.
00:31:41
Speaker
So what can a person do now then if they want to get a long-term care plan, but the insurance companies won't cover
Alternative Care Plans
00:31:49
Speaker
them? Well, depending on the state, um, cause every state has their insurance commission and in the United States. So, um, uh,
00:32:01
Speaker
and in In Oregon, Washington, California, um they don't they don't know they won't allow ah short-term care plans, but in in many other states they will. So if you live in a state that can offer a short-term care plan, they're more likely it's more likely i can get them a plan Now there's another plan that ah you you don't, so long as you don't need immediate care services, there's a plan called True Freedom. And it's it's like ah getting a a membership at Costco or some membership. or something um
00:32:32
Speaker
And ah it's only for home care services. And would you it's a subscription. and you can You can buy a plan starting at $95 month. i think yeah And if you want, you know, the robust one, it's like $400 a month, but it will pay for home care services almost and exactly like a regular long term care plan, but it's only for home care services. So if you need it it for a care center, won't pay for it. ah And it does it it it does it does all all the ah the same things. And actually, i I own a True Freedom plan because our regular long-term care plan has an as an as ah a 90-day waiting period. And ah so i have so i will use that plan when we need caregiving to have caregiving. And then then when we qualify, thenll and then we'll just use the a regular long-term care plan.
00:33:27
Speaker
So that um you mentioned not having a place in a long-term care facility. um Having a long-term care insurance plan or program in place, does that guarantee you a spot in ah in a facility if you need the long-term care?
00:33:45
Speaker
ah Yes. they ah ah Yes. yeah If you need care center, ah yes, you'll you'll be guaranteed. And if you come home, ah there's also a provision that ah that they have to reserve your spot.
00:34:00
Speaker
Okay. oh That's interesting. Yeah. And um there was something else I was going to talk about. for i i I forgot the thought. It was a good one, but I can't. I'll call it.
00:34:15
Speaker
And i I thought it was interesting going back to my care timeline that that came up on the Waterlily site. Now, it tells me that, you know, the early care is going to be about 20 months um duration, starting when I'm around 87, and then ah moderate care, and then the full care. So over the course of this, it's only um maybe four years total, but we'll get to the the spot where I need to have the full care when I get to be about 90.
00:34:48
Speaker
Can you, um looking at that that kind of kind of projection, can you um take a ah plan that covers just part of your care, like and not the early care, but just the full care or just the moderate care and balance it in the middle? Does that make sense what I'm asking?
00:35:08
Speaker
Like, I think if your question is, ah you know ah can you can you delay it um you know when you really need it? Yes. You can you can you can apply whenever you you you your family says, yeah, it's it's at that point.
00:35:25
Speaker
We want to use the plan. But just because you need caregiving doesn't mean that the insurance we're going we're going to make we're we're going to activate the plan automatically. You have to apply for it In other words, you have to have a doctor's certification.
00:35:40
Speaker
that you need you're two out of the six and that's eating baiting continence cognitive um you have that you have to apply for it um so i've had clients that uh uh you will wait till know things are really you know they really need it that they'll apply um and and before that either they'll uh you know get a a supplementary plan like a true freedom or they'll just uh uh pay out of their own resources and then when then when they really need it they'll use it does that answer your question yeah Yeah, I think it does.
00:36:13
Speaker
I was having trouble asking the question.
Employer-Sponsored Care Plans
00:36:16
Speaker
wow There was also something else. i One of the other things that is ah um that i also advise people is talk to your company, ask them if they offer a long-term care plan. If they don't, is so you know ah is it talk to me or their insurance broker about getting a long-term care plan? Because If they do, and let's say you're in your 20s or 30s and they offer a plan, you can get actually a minimal plan ah ah and ah whether the company pays for it or you know or or ah ah or they ask you to pay ah pay a portion.
00:36:57
Speaker
that would That is portable in the United States. and then which you if you leave If you leave the company and you and you you can take the plan, you can pay the premiums, and then you if you if you have a 5% cost of living,
00:37:13
Speaker
and you're in your 20s and 30s, even if it's $2,000 a month in in benefits in your twenty s and 30s, just think 5% and you've waited 40 or 50 years, what what it's going to be. So you may never have to buy another plan and it's going to be, you know, $50 a month um is to encourage, you know, i'm um is for people to encourage their companies if they don't have it to have a long term care plan.
00:37:45
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, if if you can port it, that's ah that's great. Well, lot again, ah sometimes depending on the company, that that they will pay ah at least 50% of the premiums, maybe all of it. And depending where you are in the company, they they might pay the the full the full premium.
00:38:04
Speaker
and if you and and if you if you And if you have your own ah business and you have an LLC, you can deduct the premiums. not all of them, but you can deduct a good portion of the premiums. And the other thing that makes it, i think, a good and I'll say this and I'll qualify why it's a good investment you say, well, buying insurance, you know, that's not an investment. It's paying premiums and, you know, to the insurance company. And then it goes to money heaven. and And, you know, I don't know if I'll get it back, but I'll tell you why it's a good investment. It's a good investment if you can deduct it.
00:38:38
Speaker
And and it's it's a great investment because the money that you receive, whether it's a reimbursement or indemnity, meaning cash plan, It's not taxable.
00:38:48
Speaker
It is not taxable. So rather than using your cash flow that is, you know, ah after tax, it's not it's not taxable. And, you know, we're now in tax season in the United States.
00:39:03
Speaker
And, you know people are thinking about, you know their deductions and, ah ah you know, how they can ah keep keep more of their money. You can keep 100 percent of your money.
00:39:14
Speaker
I think that's a good investment.
00:39:19
Speaker
Probably is, yes.
00:39:22
Speaker
So if if someone or for someone who can't or or doesn't want to buy long-term care insurance or a long-term care plan right now, what could they do to reduce the the stress of their life when they're thinking about these sorts of things? What what can they do outside of a plan?
00:39:45
Speaker
just as you looked at the water lily, you know, it talks about lifestyle, it's your lifestyle. If you smoke, stop smoking. If you if if you like to ah ah beverages, um consider, you know, ah ah consider beverages that are healthier.
00:40:04
Speaker
um Exercise um um what are the what they So, you know you like um um you know, the kind of food you eat, um you know, don't have a constant processed food, potato chips. um And of course, you know, this is ah this is also an economic thing that i better food costs more money.
00:40:31
Speaker
uh you know uh you know hamburgers french fries potato chips uh um sandwiches that have you know gravy on it those are things that uh are not uh are not good for your health and you know it can do a lot but sometimes uh it's your it's your gene sometimes it's just you know uh um uh the the family history for example in my family we have heart
Impact of Genetics and Cognitive Health
00:40:55
Speaker
ah issues. and So if my wife doesn't kill me, it's probably more I'm more likely to die from heart disease because heart disease has been on both sides of my of my family. Now my my mother avoided it all. um ah You know, on but on both sides that lived to ah live to live to 103. they're always there. They're always exceptions. But you know, you might have their other pre existing conditions. ah um
00:41:21
Speaker
on neurological, um um and then of course, cognitive. And that's, that that's a different kind of ah um health issue because cognitive could start, you know, at early early ages, and it can go on for a long time.
00:41:38
Speaker
And, and that's an and it's, you know, you're, you're, you're you're healthy, but your brain ah is in cognitive decline.
00:41:48
Speaker
So and what do you do? but You know, what do you do about that? I mean, there are, you know, there's medication you could, you could take for that. But also, as I as I read, ah for cognitive is, you know mental stimulation, it's a form of, you know, exercise mental mental stimulation, but that and might not necessarily And I don't know enough about, you know, to to say to definitively, hey, if you do this, you know, ah you you won't you won't get have ah cognitive the usual things, Alzheimer's, but cognitive can be can can be met many things. Right.
00:42:20
Speaker
And and and that's that's expensive in its own right because ah if you stay at home, then you know you really do do need somebody you know all the time to um um ah for care or you or or you need monitoring equipment.
00:42:38
Speaker
um And then, you know, also depending on, um you know, are they are they reasonable where they'll listen to you? They want because some kids get violent and I mean, there could a life safety issues to say, ah no, they really need to be in a care center or their mobility, because if they're not exercising, they get ah terribly overweight. And then when they wait, then they need to be better than they, you know, have the the the um
00:43:09
Speaker
um I was going to say not conveyor belt, but lifters to to help you out because they know they don't they don't know. They don't know that they're supposed to exercise. So, you know, you've got to encourage them you know to be in the pool or or ah or other things. And this is...
00:43:26
Speaker
this ah This is you know is is immobility. you know They call you know couch potatoes. ah But yeah, exercise, food, beverage, ah um um cigars every once a while. I'm a cigar smoker. I'm retired. where I do it every once a while, but I don't do it as much, but I've never been a smoker. So those are those are some of the fundamental things.
00:43:49
Speaker
And you have to just get in the habit of doing it because habits are hard ah things to... um achieve, you know, bad, at you know, you say, well, bad habits, but then how do you change your habits? And, and, and say, you know, a retirement plan, you want to save, you got to get in the habit, you got to learn how to, you know, how to do it. You also need to be in the habit of having your estate plan. And every once in a while, you know, make sure that you have a power of attorney, that you have a medical power, that you have a will. you have a you know And then what do you want to do with your other
Home Modifications for Future Needs
00:44:23
Speaker
assets? Oh, you know, there's another there's another thing you actually want to do is declutter.
00:44:29
Speaker
You don't need as much stuff as you think you do. And ah and so... For family sanity, ah ah ah be begin you know the stuff you have and to look around and say, do I really need that? And and should i should should I give away, sell um you know eBay, whatever it it is?
00:44:53
Speaker
I'm not saying, you know, live a minimalist life. That's not what I'm, it's, but if you look around and you have things on the floor or you can't, you get, you open up your closet, you're not sure if it'll be an avalanche, perhaps, you know, start there, you know, clean out your drawers every once in a while, clean out the drawers.
00:45:12
Speaker
It is astonishing, you know, because we're doing that, we're doing some remodeling in our home, is that you open up a drawer And, you know, you look in it and you say, well, I'll clear the drawer. And it's astonishing, it can take 45 minutes to, you know, empty the drawer, and then decide you know, what, what to put back and what to put in. So decluttered. But the other thing is home modifications. If you're going to stay at home, think about home modifications. And what are the basic things? ah Grab rails, light lighting, um,
00:45:44
Speaker
ah you know do you have ah area rugs? Or do you have, you know, what kind of carpeting do you have? um Door handles? You know, do you have lever? Do you have brown?
00:45:55
Speaker
What? if you and if you have arthritis or something, you know, is to decide what kind it it may not it may seem, you know, innocuous it may seem like, Oh, you know, i didn't need to think about that. But it's not that expensive.
00:46:09
Speaker
I'm not saying it's, you know, it's free. But if you have to do it all at once and it costs you $15,000, $20,000, you can say, well, that's expensive. But if you do it incrementally, and you'll ah then and that's you've you've you've spread out the costs.
00:46:25
Speaker
And that said that's so true. You don't think of things, even the little things like grabbing your doorknob to turn it. you if you're If you're prone to arthritis, there's going to be a time when you can't grab that doorknob and turn it. So changing the levers is a pretty simple thing to do.
00:46:42
Speaker
Yeah, and your bathtub. I mean, you know maybe you need yeah a ah different kind of bathtub or or or shower heads or or mats. ah You know, these these are things, you know, you yeah you can easily buy ah buy online.
00:46:56
Speaker
and then you know uh uh um uh you know somebody or you yourself or um uh you know uh uh install these these things the other know i mean it might be security cameras uh monitors um um you know your phone uh is it is to think and you know you might think oh uh there there aren't that many items actually when you start thinking about you know, all the things, there's a lot of things to do. But what I say to myself, as I encourage other people is that you don't have to do it.
00:47:30
Speaker
Yeah, all at once on Wednesday, yeah, start on Monday. And if it takes you six months or a year, takes you six months or a year, what's the rush.
00:47:40
Speaker
But if you do it consistently, you also get in the habit that it isn't as it isn't as awful, because you're you're in you're in the habit of doing all these um um um home modification or but or even changing light bulbs you know this is one of the things that you know people uh if family members come to somebody's home and they find out you know half their light bulbs are are out um and the home isn't clean and and and and the and the refrigerator uh that you have uh more things in your refrigerator than what should be in the refrigerator
00:48:14
Speaker
It's because you know, ah it could be a cognitive that people start slipping and they or they just say, well, or or or vision, maybe they have vision issues ah that they don't they that they don't see what other people are seeing.
00:48:27
Speaker
So this is where good, good good lighting does matter. and and and And and where you have the lighting and and and also, you know, your chairs and your sofas, you know, when you sit down in a
00:48:40
Speaker
you know, when you're younger, you can get up. But when you're when you're older, getting up, you know it's a little bit more strenuous. So you know, make sure you have the couches or the chairs um that that you can get up or if you have somebody you know, that you give you you um They give their hands, you give their hands, they they help you up.
00:49:00
Speaker
um But, you know, and furniture, furniture can make ah make a difference. um um And those those those those are some of the general ideas. Where do some of the big ah problems um happen in your bathroom? um You know, people slip in the tub or the shower. is to make sure that you know that if somebody goes in themselves, that um they can do it without slipping or slipping or falling and hurting themselves.
00:49:31
Speaker
Those are all ah all good things to think about. There's ah there's a lot of stuff to... ah to go along with aging, I think, that some of us don't don't really think about until it comes the time when you need it. Exactly. And and and so and then who becomes responsible for that? usually
Organizing for Caregiving
00:49:51
Speaker
isn't. Somebody comes in and and and i' you know it's it's like they they'll go through a stimulus overload.
00:49:57
Speaker
is They'll come in and they'll see all these things. Oh, you know there's also something, in whether it's pre-retirement or retirement, is have your parents documents where they can be found, whether it's digital or manual.
00:50:12
Speaker
And, ah you know, it's your where's your insurance? Where's your health care card? um what What are the passwords? That's also a big thing now. is do you know Does somebody know the passwords ah to to to your banking accounts and your savings account? ah ah Either write them down or you know have them in a place that somebody can find find them. um Your your your um um legal documents.
00:50:41
Speaker
ah I do both. I have it both in manual form and in and in digital. um And, you know, if you say, well, you know, it's over, that's too much.
00:50:52
Speaker
I say again, do it incrementally, you know, get a folder, you know, ah ah um um make a copy of your um ah Social so Security card, make a copy of your ah Medicare card, um you know any other cards that you know somebody would somebody would need somebody that would need to find. And tell somebody, whether it's ah your professional advisors or a family member that you trust,
00:51:20
Speaker
is, and have it in one filing cabinet, have it ah have it in one place, don't have it in seven places. You know, you don't don't want to be Sherlock Holmes to try to figure out, you know, I'll keep it and let's and let's let somebody know. But that's that also is a panic. And I've had people that will have called me, say, you know, look, i need I'm helping my my ah my father and I don't know i don't know where any any of his documents are.
Resources for Long-Term Care Planning
00:51:47
Speaker
And those are immediate things, you know, especially especially your health care card. um Yeah, that's a good reminder. Yeah. So, Raymond, if someone wants to get in touch with you to talk about long term care plans or all of the things that we've discussed today, where can they find you?
00:52:04
Speaker
um They can find me on my website, You can find me on Facebook. You can find me on LinkedIn, Raymond Levine.
00:52:20
Speaker
um And a couple of things ah to just say on my website is if you go as you did to the upper left, um you could find out you know ah your longevity. If you go to the lower ah bottom of um my website, you can ask questions.
00:52:39
Speaker
and I used to have a frequently asked question. It would be like 48 things. and i don't I personally i find that annoying. you know the day and Sometimes i never find what I'm looking for. You can go and it's AI generated. You can put in ah you know, what is long term, you know, just what is long term care insurance?
00:52:58
Speaker
And I'll answer that question. Or if you have a specific question, will it do this? It's it's more likely that you'll get, you know, that kind of ah it'll answer the question that you want, not all the 47 or 57 or 87 frequently asked questions that that I know about. It may be that one question that you want to know.
00:53:20
Speaker
It's more likely ah that we'll answer that um either before or after we have the conversation. The other thing is that I do have a long form and a shortterm short form health assessment.
00:53:35
Speaker
because anytime that you talk to anybody about any kind of insurance, but especially for long-term care, it's all it's all about health assessment. And so ah what also what helps me is if I get a health assessment and something I've learned is i used to, in the early days before I had this, I i had to manually ask somebody you know all these questions and I'd forget something or they would,
00:53:58
Speaker
But people are, if they could fill it out, actually more honest about it because it's asking that question. So get more reliable and I'll get away from honest. It's more reliable. But if you fill that out and it's encrypted, it's secure, you'll never see it anywhere in social media. But it is important to people, know, when you fill out information, it doesn't I mean, it doesn't ask for your social security number. It doesn't ask, know, I mean, for, you know, your bank account number, it doesn't ask for any of that stuff. But what it does, it can either be in great detail or, you know, just a general idea. uh of your health and actually speaking of that for health i mean you uh i i keep a health record i use evernote but i keep a health record uh uh and that that's also helpful you know for my vaccines when i go to the eye doctor when i go to the dermatologist uh when i when i have my annual physical or if there's something or my heart doctor You know, I keep I scan and I have, you as part of my medical records, because I forget, I mean, you know, so he said, what'd you do? And so but I but I have it in organized notebooks.
00:55:14
Speaker
And I just, you know, each time now, I'm just in the habit when I, yeah ah you know, when I have a night, the eye doctor appointment, I'll put in, you know, the information.
00:55:25
Speaker
and and and and scan it in. So it's it's just, it it isn't even thinking, it's just a manual it's just a manual process. it's not Once you have that set up, it's not it's not that that hard to do. um so those are, so yeah, if I can get a health assessment, that really helps because the first thing everybody asks me is how much
Factors Influencing Care Plan Costs
00:55:47
Speaker
does it cost? know what What's the premium?
00:55:49
Speaker
And I'll say, well, I don't know because i i need to you know find out something about your family history, you know, does everybody die at 58? Or is everybody, you know, is there ah people ah live ah live a lot live a lot longer? you know, the last person that needed caregiving before they died, how long were they ill before they died?
00:56:10
Speaker
and you know, somebody could say, Well, on Tuesday, they were fine. And Wednesday, we're dead. Well, that's fast. But, ah you know the more information I have, then I can say, you know, and then I get into the first question I ask is, what do you want your long term care plan to do? What do you want it to do?
00:56:29
Speaker
And I listen to their story. I don't tell them what I believe. I want to know what's important to them. And when I have that, then I can design a plan you know plan or plans.
00:56:43
Speaker
and say, look, you know, this will do this. And this is the the premium and we can we can adjust it. It isn't just one size, you know, you're not just going into a dealership and say, you know, we only have one car and it's fifty thousand dollars and take it or leave it. Lisa, you know, ah there are all kinds of variations to this long term care.
00:57:07
Speaker
up ah ah ah plans and planning, and it's customized through what do you want it to what do you want your plan to do.
00:57:19
Speaker
And that's good to know. I think ah i think long to ah a lot of people think, at least I did, that it's just kind of a package deal. this is This is what you're going to get, and this is how long it's going to be. And it's good to know that you can mix and match a little bit.
00:57:35
Speaker
We can, you know, we ah and and we can guess at it because, you know, yeah when I, first the first time I looked at long-term care was 1998 or 1999. And the the insurance agent said, you're going to, you only need it for two years. And I thought, I said, how do I know i'm going to need it? I don't. You know, ah you know he he decided how long I would need it. My mother needed it for 18 years. That's a little bit. Yes. That's nine times longer than two than two than two years. So we don't know. Now, one of the things that also in these plans, if you get, you know, there's certain plans you can get ah um that if you don't, if you if you don't use all the funds and you die,
00:58:22
Speaker
the residual funds will go back into the estate tax-free. um Yeah. So so the term the term used to be for traditional use it or lose it.
00:58:34
Speaker
so and and and that And that was a true insurance plan, just like car insurance. If you never use it, you paid all those years. It's gone. it Well, it It's, yeah, the premiums the premiums are gone, but, you know, ah ah but I should, well, of course, in in the United States, you if you own a car, you have,
00:58:55
Speaker
It's mandatory, you have to own a plan.
Probability of Caregiving Needs
00:58:57
Speaker
it's no matter it like ah Even if you show, you know, hey, I'm worth a billion dollars, it's pal, get you know, you still have to have a insurance plan. You don't have to do that for caregiving, which is more, it's more likely that you're going to need caregiving than, you know, than your house is going to burn down. And we actually have been in such our house burned down. So, you know, ah ah but for most people that doesn't, that doesn't happen. So it's more likely you're going to need caregiving.
00:59:26
Speaker
But most people, you know, they own homeowners insurance, apartment insurance, umbrella policy, maybe car insurance, health insurance. And ah the two year most likely is you're debt you're going to use your health insurance. And it's very likely you're going to need caregiving insurance um or, you know, or or caregiving expenses from from from your own resources. And the other thing is look, if you hire your family, it's that's not free. It's sometimes they'll be reimbursed. But if you have to give up your career and you have, you know, whatever amount of money you make, it's gone. It's it's gone along with, you know, whatever you're contributing to Social Security or whatever it is in Canada. um you know, that um that's that's delayed. So don't own a plan. You think you're saving premiums. it'll cost you It may cost you a lot more you know ah ah somewhere somewhere somewhere else. So is it worth $250, depending on you know whether it's individual or family? Is it worth $250, $300, $400? Yes, because, you know, people spend $1,000 month or $800 month
01:00:32
Speaker
yes because ah you know it's a astonishuntia um you know people will spend a thousand dollars a month or eight hundred dollars a month to lease or finance a vehicle.
Financial Planning to Alleviate Fears
01:00:43
Speaker
And some and they'll put up with that because it's a vehicle. And they'll say, but if I own a plan, ah, it's too much money. Well, you know, here's here's here's here's here's the arithmetic of it. Would you rather spend $250, $300, $400 for a plan that will pay probably pay you you know, five six seven thousand a month um for you know however many years you know ah the the that the that the plan that the that the plan is ah devised? own lifestyle expenses?
01:01:16
Speaker
or um do you want to pay that seven to ten or fifteen thousand out of your own ah lifestyle expenses Yeah, it's a gamble that people ah people take and it's a gamble that they're going to probably lose. Yeah, well, and and the thing is if you want to plan, it's more of a risk. you know Yeah, ah if you ah ah if it's a plan that if you don't use it or you only you know you don't use as much as you thought as you thought you would, at least you at least at least you have something because it's the worry.
01:01:49
Speaker
People... who ah ah um besides my wondering whether my wife is mad at me or not, or if I've done some unconscionable deed, the second thing that people, well, they say that public speaking is the thing that people fear most.
01:02:05
Speaker
I think it's the the thing that people fear most of is money worries. How are they going to pay that, you know, pay paying their bills, having having having a lifestyle? Money is a worry.
01:02:18
Speaker
Yep, it definitely is. Well, Raymond, we could probably ah continue to talk about how important this is for another couple of hours, but I think we're going to have to cut it off here.
01:02:29
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with us. um I think ah I know I know a lot more about long-term care plans now, about the importance of them and and the benefits of them, and I think my listeners do as well. Thank you very much for joining us today.
01:02:45
Speaker
It's been my pleasure. Thank you, Jackie.
01:02:49
Speaker
And that's it for this episode of Beyond Retirement. Thank you so much for hanging out with me. I hope you enjoyed it. To check out the video interviews, please go to my YouTube channel at bit.ly forward slash beyond retirement. That's bit.ly forward slash beyond retirement.
01:03:06
Speaker
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