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Episode 9 | Innovation II: Charlotte Junge
25 Plays10 days ago
In this episode of At the Barre, we are joined by Charlotte Junge, Company Dancer with Madison Ballet and emerging choreographer featured in this season’s Innovation II.
This conversation explores Charlotte’s early dance training, her move to Boston Ballet School at just 14, and the unexpected path that led her to Madison Ballet. She also discusses how her background in multiple dance styles continues to influence her movement vocabulary today.
We get a peek inside Charlotte’s choreographic process and how her piece As Above, So Below has come to life. Inspired by her relationship with her mother, Charlotte shares the beauty of exploring a deeply personal theme in a safe space with her Madison Ballet colleagues.
About Charlotte Junge
Originally from Houston, TX, Charlotte Junge began her training locally, and continued her focus on classical training at the Houston Ballet Academy and The Dallas Conservatory. While at Houston Ballet, she performed in premieres of The Nutcracker: Romeo and Juliet, and Giselle by Stanton Welch AM. At The Dallas Conservatory, she performed as Clara in The Nutcracker, and won numerous awards at YAGP. In 2018, Charlotte was accepted into Boston Ballet School's Professional Division. While a student there, she had the opportunity to study with esteemed faculty including Margaret Tracey, Miranda Weese, Kathleen Mitchell, Andrea Long, and Denise Lewis. In 2022, Charlotte graduated high school, finishing her 4th year with Boston Ballet School. In 2022, she created her first professional choreographic work on the company for the Innovation program. This will be Charlotte's 4th season with Madison Ballet.
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/charjunge/
See As Above, So Below by Charlotte at Innovation II @ Overture Center Promenade Hall May 8-10, 2026
🎟️ madisonballet.org/innovation-ii
Join the conversation!
MBSP WEBSITE: https://www.madisonballetspecialprojects.com/
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/madisonballetspecialprojects
Questions/comments? Email us at hello@madisonballetspecialprojects.com
Credits
PODCAST COVER PHOTO: Matthew Ulrich
DANCER: Madison Ballet Company Artist Lauren Thompson
MUSIC: Capet String Quartet - Ravel (Col. D 15057-60) 1928
CHARLOTTE HEADSHOT: Lexia Frank Photography
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'At the Bar' Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
I'm Chris Ferenthal, director of Madison Ballet Special Projects, and this is At the Bar, your behind-the-scenes look at the ideas, stories, and creative processes shaping Madison Ballet's work.
00:00:18
Speaker
Each episode brings our community a little closer to the dancers, choreographers, and collaborators who are making ballet in Madison right now. Whether you're a seasoned ballet domain, current or former dancer, or simply curious about how dance gets made, we warmly invite you into the room where it happens.
00:00:41
Speaker
Welcome
Meet Charlotte Young
00:00:42
Speaker
back to At The Bar with Madison Ballet Special Projects. I am Chris Farenthal, Director of Special Projects, and I am so thrilled to be joined today by Charlotte Young, a company dancer at Madison Ballet and also a choreographer on our upcoming show, Innovation 2.
00:01:02
Speaker
May 8th through 10th at Promenade Hall at Overshire Center. So before we start anything, I just wanted to thank you Charlotte, for joining us today. Yeah, of course.
A Day in the Life of a Dancer
00:01:13
Speaker
Thank you for having me on.
00:01:14
Speaker
The rest of our audience may not know this, but this is probably, you know, the end of a very busy day for you. You're a dancer at Madison Ballet. I happen to see the schedule, so I know you guys dance a lot when we're in production.
00:01:30
Speaker
Can you just walk us through, like, what is a day in the life of a dancer while you're in production? Oh gosh, surprisingly, I've found it busier than a week where I am just a dancer. I'm facing the mirror versus kind of bouncing between dancer and choreographer.
00:01:51
Speaker
Class in the morning for an hour and a half, and then about five to six hours of rehearsal time. I guess when it comes to production, in the process of creating,
00:02:05
Speaker
I tend to really exhaust myself, surprisingly, but I think it's a lot of repetition in me experimenting with movement, seeing how it feels in the body, seeing how it lands on different dancers and different bodies as well.
00:02:20
Speaker
That kind of comes as a bit of a surprise for me that it ends up being a bit of a tiring process to create and set choreography. Last week, my initial week to start creating, I was just like drenched in sweat, hour one and hour two of rehearsal. And I was like, okay. One day this will settle down for sure. But I find that really fun. And it's nice for me to really feel what I'm giving. i have a very full understanding. And while I'm still blessed to be like on the dancer side as well, i have a bit more of like a personal understanding of how
00:02:56
Speaker
their feeling as well picking up material because on any other given week I am in there i'm in their position learning material from another choreographer. So in a studio setting the choreography and repeating a lot of steps just to kind of figure things out tends to become a little bit exhausting with the repetition.
00:03:14
Speaker
In production and being a dancer as well it gets a little bit busier outside the studio and a lot of that is just going home, seeing what I created for the day and taking a video towards the end of rehearsal, bringing that video back home, sharing it with the dancers so they have material to review and see what's going on.
00:03:34
Speaker
And then i go through and watch the video, see what I think I could do better, what could be tweaked and adjusted or improved upon for the next day taking notes. And that
Choreographic Collaboration
00:03:45
Speaker
can be maybe an added hour or two at the end of the day.
00:03:50
Speaker
Sometimes in the morning, I'll touch base on something as well and see what's going on. A lot of times, even in class, like I'll be sitting on the side and back of the studio, just kind of feeling out some movement. like and as Something will pop into my head. I see something. I'm like, let me just see how this feels and then go from there, maybe bring it into the rehearsal space as well.
00:04:07
Speaker
So a lot of things going on. I'm always fascinated by the part of the dancer's mind that is engaged with executing the steps that are given, whether it's in class or with the rep, and also the compositional mind that goes into creating choreography.
00:04:26
Speaker
Do you find that those are separate muscles or does one feed into the other? Or have you always felt kind of both? I think for me, I think one feeds into the other. tend tend to feel that I need kind of my own personal time with the music and with feeling out the movement.
00:04:50
Speaker
I guess still as a younger dancer and still feeling like my place is dancer right now, even while I'm experimenting with the choreographer side, I tend to get a little bit hesitant mentally and physically with being fully open if I'm in a space with other people, if there's other people around. So sometimes starting off in just a physically private space, just being in a smaller studio by myself, even like headphones on, not even playing the music out loud so nobody can hear or see or watch. like That gets me to really be there with myself and find...
00:05:26
Speaker
inspiration and find what really feels most organic. That starts to plant seeds, I think. And then i gain a little bit of confidence from working through some movement, creating a few phrases that are about 20, 30 seconds. And then I share that with the dancers going into the actual rehearsal process. And that seems to give me a little bit more confidence coming into the room, especially on day one and feeling like I have something to give right away. i don't think everybody works the same way. And in my experience working with other choreographers, it's not always been like that as well. But I have had some experiences where the choreographer has come in and opened a laptop and there's been a video there. it's like, okay we're going to learn this. and But it's a good stepping stone into the
00:06:12
Speaker
the composition of the remainder of the piece and i definitely try not to like create and then set and then create and then set like a little bit is done in advance just by myself to get a feel for maybe the overall style feeling of movement and feeling that I want to create with the piece and then as that gets given to the dancers I find that the composition comes along more as a collaboration with the dancers and I see how things land on their bodies. They give me feedback, I give them feedback. And
Charlotte's Dance Journey
00:06:41
Speaker
then it turns into just one really big conversation that I feel like is really nice. And that tends to take us down more of the direction of like seeing the bodies in the space and creating shapes and a structure for the piece.
00:06:53
Speaker
Wow, we really got into it early. So let's sort of zoom out a bit and find out a little bit of how you came to dance and ballet in particular. So Charlotte, if you don't mind, why don't you narrate us through your dance journey to Madison Ballet? How did you arrive here?
00:07:14
Speaker
So kind of the classic backstory that my parents threw me in dance when I was two and it just stuck. And that is kind of honestly the general trajectory of like my childhood dance experience. i dabbled between a competition dance studio with multiple styles of dance and then a more ballet focused studio that offered top classes as well. So that was something new for me. And I was juggling that for a little bit.
00:07:39
Speaker
Somewhere along the line, I think ballet stuck a little bit more. I shifted out of the competition dance into some more technique and pre-professional focused programs. When I was 14,
00:07:53
Speaker
i was about to go into high school. i did a few auditions and I was accepted into Boston Ballet School for the pre-professional program. And so I moved away from home at 14. I spent all four years of high school there. my junior year of high school, we had a little end of year performance and Jamalik, our artistic director, was invited to be a guest choreographer.
00:08:18
Speaker
at the time it was COVID, so we were kind of slowly making our way out of quarantine and harsher restrictions, but we were in studios and we were learning choreography with Ja on Zoom and we had masks on, was hard to kind of like have faces to the names and a whole lot of things in that process.
00:08:42
Speaker
However, as much as that was like very chaotic and very different than how things normally work with creating a piece, that was my connection to Ja. And he kind of kept in touch with me, reached out my senior year the following year after that, as I was doing some auditions and invited me to send my materials in the Madison Ballet direction. I did not know at the time that he was going to be a director, but when he initially reached out to me, it was not a company that I had found or sent my materials to yet. And so I went ahead and did it because why not? And it ended up working out.
00:09:20
Speaker
Since that whole experience, i i know me and John talked about the whole like COVID and learning choreography on Zoom. And that is just i completely different situation. Very difficult. Puts a lot into perspective of being able to work face-to-face with dancers as well. But I've been with Madison Ballet ever since I graduated high school and it's been amazing and really fun.
00:09:43
Speaker
I think it's always interesting when dancers come in with varied backgrounds, whether it's other genres of dance or other sports they played or they'll stop playing, you know. I know. You're never encouraged to do any of that when you're a dancer as a kid.
00:09:58
Speaker
I guess the competition dance thing does take up a lot of the... I would rather be doing X or Y or Z type thing. What are the other genres of dance that you might have gone into? I mean, you said tap. Like, that's fascinating. I'd love to see that someday. Gosh, I know. Well, maybe this is something you save for ben Rose's choreography and his... episode, but he's bringing in a little bit of the tap dance. So that's not my place to speak on too much, but I'm excited to maybe dip my toes in the water with that again. So that'll be fun. and Bringing it back. With the competition dance, I do think I leaned strongly in a very contemporary and jazz direction.
00:10:42
Speaker
There was a style called lyrical, which was always a little bit more of a balletic contemporary. always always had like a lighter feel to it. And that was always like my thing as a kid. It seemed to like stick the best and always do really well when I would perform like solos and group numbers. And I think that kind of shifted me more towards the ballet direction. I probably would have ended up in a maybe contemporary dance space. I don't think it would have been too far away from the ballet scene, if anything.
00:11:09
Speaker
But I don't know. I think dance has always been there for me. Choreography, I think, has also always been there for me. And that's a new thing that I'm really trying to dive deeper into now that I've gotten into a little bit more of the dance career. I'm very interested in growing that more. So being here in this innovation process has kind of reignited that spark and that fire for me.
00:11:33
Speaker
I've been able to see
Music's Role in Choreography
00:11:34
Speaker
students and and younger dancers when they seem to feel like the ballet expression and movement is their preferred expression and movement. And once they know, they know.
00:11:47
Speaker
And it's not better or worse than others, but it's fascinating. I'm also curious though, when the choreographic turn, like, is that a thing that you realized? Oh, I would like to compose dances.
00:12:01
Speaker
Or is that something that is a new muscle that you'd like to express? Honestly, i think yes to both. It is a newer muscle that I think I'm developing, especially as an adult.
00:12:14
Speaker
But as a kid and being in the dance scene so heavily already as a kid, I just remember in the car on the way to the studio, music on in the radio my feet didn't even touch the ground on the seat and like my feet are swinging and doing little ankle rolls because my brain sees dance in my head when i listen to the music and that's just always been there and i feel like because of that i've always had this choreographic itch to create and to compose dance
00:12:45
Speaker
Boston Ballet School, they offered so many opportunities for student choreographic projects, sometimes even like twice a year. And I participated in three of those over the course of the four years that I was a student there, at least three times creating.
00:13:01
Speaker
and i also had the opportunity to be a dancer at the same time. And that got me into the choreography a little bit for the first time. And that was a really cool experience getting work with your friends, with your peers.
00:13:15
Speaker
I watched the videos. I found old videos that I haven't looked at in like four or five years. And I saw all it and I was like, oh, it's really interesting to see what I created back then and see what still feels like me and what doesn't anymore. And like just the changes that have happened. and Some of it I look at, I'm like, you know, that was pretty good. Like, that's great for the time that I was at and where I was and things like that. But now I think more now in my adult life, like I'm really diving into who I am and what is my voice and what voice do I have through movement? And what does that look like for me? That's the muscle that I'm really building this year.
00:13:53
Speaker
To the extent that you do have choreographers that you've either danced or observed that you feel like are contributing to your voice, who are they? What do you derive joy from both in dancing and, and using that language to create your own vocabulary?
00:14:14
Speaker
Oh, gosh. My biggest inspirations are always leaning in like the neoclassical direction. William Forsythe, Christopher Wieldon, Crystal Pipe. There's a handful of amazing choreographers. I love Kylie Kwan's work. We just were able to do a piece by her in our last program, and that was like a dream come true box checked off the bucket list for me, and I'd love to do more.
00:14:39
Speaker
And I just watch and see and like I take inspiration from everything. I
Storytelling in Dance
00:14:43
Speaker
take a lot of inspiration from the works that we've actively been doing in season as well. Sometimes I wonder if that's just the muscle memory that's been in my body recently and my body just wants to go a certain direction if it feels similar. at Other times it's also that it just was very inspiring to have those creators in the room with us.
00:15:05
Speaker
A long time ago, i took a workshop class with an instructor or with a teacher. And this was still more in like the competition dance scene. But i remember for the first time i discovered Somebody that really created movement to every little bit of music that existed. and it was the most physical representation of the music that I had ever felt in my body.
00:15:33
Speaker
I remember it feeling... a hundred times more intricate and detailed and that really stuck with me and i kind of opened my eyes I was like well like dance is this very physical representation of the music and of course there's I believe it's George Balanchine famous quote like see the music hear the dance and I really believe in that and I do lead with that when I'm creating and I do think that ties back to like Me as a kid seeing movement in my head while just hearing music in the car and finding what feels, if it's a bigger note, a louder sound, it's a bigger movement maybe or a quieter moment looks like something different.
00:16:17
Speaker
I found that to all be really inspiring, but also impactful in my journey and in my voice. I think that inspiration has just slowly built itself up over the years in my dance experience. and I think it continues to build and continues to grow.
00:16:31
Speaker
It's not a cliche if it's always applicable, but that balancing quote, see the music, hear the dance, comes up a lot. And I thought about it a lot during Kylie Kwan's piece that you danced in, in our most recent choreographed Her.
00:16:47
Speaker
because i was looking for how you represented the movement of the music and it seemed to be all across the stage.
00:16:57
Speaker
Do you as a choreographer think about a through line story wise or a let me represent this music on stage primarily or is it an interplay between the two?
00:17:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think for me, it definitely depends because I have had some experiences where i just kind of want to create dance to music.
00:17:24
Speaker
Maybe there's a concept or a theme or an idea, but there's not necessarily a straight
Themes of Growth and Reconciliation
00:17:32
Speaker
storyline. I will say my current work that I'm creating for this upcoming program does have a little bit more of a story and a bit more of a personal background to it. So currently I am leaning a little bit more into that but this actually is going a little bit farther out of my usual box of what I feel like is natural to me when it comes to my selection of music movement and choreography and as well as like leading with a bit more of a storyline personal feeling towards the piece that I'm creating as well so right now I think I am there but is that every time i don't think so
00:18:14
Speaker
Well, let's talk about that current piece. What are you making on Madison Ballet for Innovation 2? My piece right now is inspired and is also a soft reflection of my relationship with my mom and how that has shifted and grown over the course of my life, mainly as I've gone through high school, being away from home, and how it's shifted and grown as I've become more of an adult and moved to Madison. We've had our ups and downs. There's a lot of things that have happened, a lot of things that have been worked out. And so for me, it's almost a little bit of a closure piece in a way. I'm trying to bring up all the emotions that I felt during the tougher times when I was a little bit younger and
00:19:02
Speaker
Send that into the piece to create something that's got a little bit of grit and angst at certain moments, a little bit of emotion behind it, but at the same time, showing the growth and kind of a positive linear trajectory between my mom and I.
00:19:19
Speaker
As the piece shifts, it gets a little bit lighter, a little bit more hopeful, and there's just this kind of sense of levelness and acceptance towards the end of that. I want it to feel like there's still potential at the end because there's always potential between two people, whether it's a parental relationship or a romantic relationship that there's always a progression and growth in a certain direction. that's kind of my main basis and inspiration.
00:19:47
Speaker
With that, there's not a, we're starting at this time and it's moving through this time and it's ending at this time. It just is kind of an overall summary for me. It's been going really well. It's been shifting in a nice direction. So I'm excited about it. And it's been feeling really good to like use dance as a true outlet for my emotions and my feelings in my life and like just kind of also reminding myself of like why am I doing this why am I here, especially when it is work and it's a career and it's a job I'm finding a lot of reflection within that
00:20:19
Speaker
idea. and it's been helpful for me to share that with the dancers, just to simply talk, but also feel the movement in my body and let that reflect my emotions and that shift in relationship as well. Of course, with whether it's a neoclassical work or any contemporary ballet work, it doesn't need to have a plot through line of before, middle, after, you know,
00:20:43
Speaker
But it was fascinating to watch you in rehearsal and see something of what I thought you were referring to, like wrestling with those emotions.
00:20:53
Speaker
Can you tell us before we get into the nuts and bolts of it, what is the music that you've been setting your dance to and why was that resonant to you? I will preface by saying that I am going to hopefully pronounce this correctly, but the music is by Alofer Arnolds and the music is pulled from an album called Island Songs. This is created through him mainly as the composer, but there's a few features in a few of the songs. They're all family and friends that are in relation to him, so that kind of ties together nicely for me.
00:21:28
Speaker
i am using four pieces of music from the full album. There is a song that has become the third movement of the piece. It's called Particles. Or it's Island Song 6, I believe, in the order of the And this song is Music with Words. There's a female voice singing, and it has a very emotional-leaning feeling feeling in the direction of how the music sounds and the quality of the sound as well as her voice and the infliction of her voice and how that shifts throughout the track. So with that, I found that piece of music first and for a minute had this idea in my head of a duet or a paw to create and I felt that this was a good time to bring that in and to kind of open the door to that idea and i
00:22:23
Speaker
Searched through the album and found a few more pieces of music that I felt would build a more overall piece. And so that was my initial inspiration. And I felt like the song was almost a little on the nose of how I had been feeling for a little while.
00:22:40
Speaker
and I took that as kind of a more direct inspiration for the build of the piece stemming from that song particles and leaning into the words a little bit as well. I'm always interested how choreographers take things that we all can hear into movement that only they create. And it was really a joy to see you in the room, directing the room. I'd like to talk about How that works when you are creating a dance on your colleagues. Is there an intimacy that translates into confidence because everyone knows your capabilities?
00:23:22
Speaker
Or is there, honestly, a strange struggle for hierarchy and an unhierarchical company?
Upcoming Ballet Salon Event
00:23:29
Speaker
Yeah. and b But right now, i don't feel that at all.
00:23:35
Speaker
I really try to lean into that like, I am working with my peers, and that it's not that I'm any higher than anybody else in the rank or hierarchy, just because i'm at the front of the room and facing the dancers like it's gonna have my name on it it's gonna be my creation so i am leading the conversation i would say but it's still always a conversation i kind of lean into how i felt during some student choreographic projects that I did in Boston, because when that happened, like, I don't remember anybody checking in on us too often. The rehearsals were pretty much scheduled on our own time a lot, as much as we could around our schedule.
00:24:23
Speaker
and I just remember it being a really fun experience with friends and just like creating dance and we're all doing this together. And as much as I to, my coworkers and my peers to not feel the stress of a director being in the front of the room because now it is me and I am a coworker. I also try to lead with that so I'm not putting any pressure on them.
00:24:43
Speaker
At the same time to be like, well, just because I'm at the front of the room now, everything has shifted. Like our relationship is the same and we still take class together every morning. And so I'm finding that we're doing really well with that. And other experiences that I've been in and other processes have also been really great. I do think it creates a little bit more relaxation and comfort.
00:25:05
Speaker
I hope it gives them confidence to fully be themselves and just dive into something that maybe feels a little bit new and a little bit different here and there.
00:25:16
Speaker
Because there isn't anybody at the front of the room that is labeled, I guess, as a director or a higher up. Like we are with each other. We're all in the same boat. So It's my piece today and I'm working with another dancer tomorrow. And it just we just kind of circle around each other and it just shifts. Yeah, I lead with the idea of it being an open conversation always. And I think that keeps it pretty level and keeps it not too stressful.
00:25:45
Speaker
Are you looking for a night out that blends art, ideas, and great conversation? We would love for you to join Madison Ballet Special Projects on Thursday, April 30th for At The Bar, Ballet Salons at Leopold's.
00:25:58
Speaker
Set in the cozy book-line charm of Leopold's Books Bar Cafe on Regent Street in downtown Madison, this free salon series brings you behind the scenes of the ballet world. Hosted by Chris Ferenthold, each evening features an intimate conversation with a special guest.
00:26:13
Speaker
April's guest is the stunning Madison Ballet Company member Shannon Quirk, a dancer who is truly synonymous with Madison Ballet. Join us as we celebrate
Evolution of Creative Process
00:26:23
Speaker
her 15th season with the company and reflect on the artistry, dedication, and evolution that have defined her incredible career here in Madison.
00:26:31
Speaker
This event is free and open to the public, so come early, grab a drink, and get up close to the world of dance at Leopold's. Learn more at madisonballetspecialprojects.com. I was grateful to be able to watch about an hour and a half of your rehearsal. And ah most of it was the Ben and Emmy paw.
00:26:52
Speaker
But I was definitely able to see what I thought was your way in the room. You seemed confident them and able to describe what you wanted to do your fellow dancers.
00:27:07
Speaker
Is that a character that you have to create? The Charlotte at the front of the room? Or is that something that just naturally flows from this is in my head. i want to get it out onto the floor. And that's how it goes.
00:27:24
Speaker
It definitely is something that has built over time Certain aspects of it come naturally to me. Other aspects do not. But now that I've grown into also teaching,
00:27:39
Speaker
With dancing as well, teaching students, teaching other adults as well, that has given me a little bit of that experience of kind of having a confident voice to hold like strong control of the room.
00:27:54
Speaker
Not to say that anything is controlling, but like we're all here and there's kind of a focal point or a leader. and that keeps us all kind of together for the hour, hour and a half that class is happening.
00:28:06
Speaker
And I have been kind of thinking about this recently, that it's felt a little bit more natural for me to leave the room with my peers now than it has in past experiences. And I think that has built from other teaching experience where...
00:28:22
Speaker
Teaching students, there is just simply an age difference. And because they are students and they're learning, they have built certain etiquette that I think just comes into play that kind of has a bit more separation. And so that's a little bit easier for me to just be confident, tell them what to do, get it done.
00:28:41
Speaker
With teaching adults, that's something that I also do outside the studio through teaching Pilates. And I just try to kind of shift my mindset into teaching. This is like doing anything else, any teaching any other class. It's just this combo of steps for today versus exercises or class combinations in a ballet class. So sometimes I got to pretend that they're not my coworkers and they're not my peers and that they're like people I don't know maybe so that I can really pull out the full confidence and just mentally stay focused on my end so that I make sure I'm being clear and communicating what I mean to communicate. Once I get going, get into the flow of it a little bit. It feels more natural. So day one, I think is toughest and backtracking maybe to having a phrase in mind that gives me somewhere to start. It's like, okay, I'm to teach this phrase.
00:29:32
Speaker
This is the movement. This is the steps. I can tell you how this transitions. I can tell you that this arm comes from your shoulder blade or you're moving from your armpit or something like that. And then it just seems to kind of continue to flow from there.
00:29:46
Speaker
So that kind of has been my inspiration and building those skills outside the studio has been supportive of my creation process. That's really interesting. How it does the compositional movement begin? it a, you like to move something from your shoulder blade rather than the thing that you've usually done?
00:30:08
Speaker
And that becomes, oh, I'll put that in a dance. Or do you see some kind of phrase that you would like to articulate over these 16 counts and you just are waiting for the music to be able to do that?
00:30:25
Speaker
What does that feel like? What does that look like for a choreographer? For me, more often than not, with my process of starting out kind of individually preparing a little bit of material before day one in the studio, either hear kind of a point in the music where I'm like, this seems like a good time for us all to collectively be together. And I think to rewind a little bit, even before I even try to dance anything,
00:31:00
Speaker
I've solidified the music and I've probably listened to the music at least a hundred times, some extreme number, just over and over again in the car, on the way to work, anywhere and everywhere I go. Listening to it enough times, I start to see just a general trajectory And that tends to include like a number of bodies. Does this feel more like a solo moment? Does this feel more like a time for everybody to join together?
00:31:25
Speaker
and so in finding a point in the music where I feel that everybody could join together, i could then create a phrase and teach it to everybody and have everybody involved day one, hour one. And that always feels nice to start off together and get everybody a little bit more on the same page of the feeling, the vibe, the style of what we're going through.
00:31:45
Speaker
Sometimes
Challenges in Choreography
00:31:46
Speaker
I see a certain move in my head at the same point in music enough times to start there, go from there, and then I just dance. I'll probably dance two steps. I'll stop, repeat those two steps, tweak it a little bit, keep going, do a couple more steps.
00:32:06
Speaker
Be like, what was that? It was more improv. And it's like, I liked it. i liked how it felt. Let me make it a thing. And then that builds into something that's long enough to share and solidifies into something that feels clear enough to share. and then a lot of what starts as my initial phrase work by myself turns into the building blocks of the rest of the movement and material for the remainder of the piece.
00:32:34
Speaker
And then I'm with everybody else and I get their input and it becomes kind of our work together and not just me. I've heard similar things from Andalyn Taylor and Alana Goldman.
00:32:45
Speaker
But what I'm fascinated by is especially as a woman who is choreographing, partnering, how does that work? Because part of what I enjoyed... in being in rehearsal was watching you basically problem solve with Ben Shepard, who was partnering Emmy during the part that I saw.
00:33:08
Speaker
But more broadly, the question is, like you know what your body would be doing in that moment, and you demonstrate very well what you would like your dancers to be doing.
00:33:21
Speaker
How do you confront the problem of you cannot lift and you are not the man in the de deux or whatever? cur Partnering is the hardest part of creating a piece, especially when i knew I wanted to lean into partnering. I had this idea for like a strong paw section.
00:33:44
Speaker
I really do lean into the support of the male dancers to help me out in their experience in partnering. The good news is that since I've joined Madison Ballet, I've gained way more partnering experience than I ever had when I was a student. So I have a much better understanding of what is maybe possible, what is functional or not functional.
00:34:07
Speaker
And with partnering, I think it's similar to my initial process of like, I listened to the music a bunch of times, I see certain things happening.
00:34:19
Speaker
So within a PAW, see moments of connection and also moments of separation. Sometimes it's, hey, I want something that's up in the air and it swirls around and she rolls this way or that way. And can we make that happen somehow? And and I'm always open to what does that need to be? And then I'm there to like see the visual of that and tweak whatever feels a little bit rocky around the edges. Sometimes it's as simple as there's a jump in a phrase that we do individually, and now it's a partner jump.
00:34:52
Speaker
And I say grab by the hips or grab by the armpits. That's a little bit easier to kind of move through. But with lifts partnering either two people together or maybe even three people together, there's a few moments of that going on in the work.
00:35:05
Speaker
I really do lean into the guys to let me know, like, hey, this is doable. Hey, this is not doable. If there's not a way for something to be partnered and for it to read to me, I'll change it. like I'd rather not overcomplicate something as much as I'll go for something that maybe is complicated. i won't keep it if it feels simply just crazy. If it feels very grabby, if it just feels very like manual, i don't think that that's necessarily for me personally as a choreographer.
00:35:40
Speaker
That's the biggest thing, just leaning into the guys, especially Ben Shepard. He's just so helpful and very in tune to what is going on and what he's doing when he's partnering another dancer. And I've gotten to partner with Multiple of the male dancers here in the company, interestingly and enough, completely different experience with every person. So it's also knowing that every person is a different partner and each pair of people, one thing might work, another thing might not work.
00:36:11
Speaker
I do have a certain lift with two people that appears a couple times with Emmy. I did have it on another pair of dancers and it just wasn't quite sticking. I didn't find it to be maybe best for those dancers.
00:36:30
Speaker
And that's just more my choice to make. And I changed it and I found something that does really showcase their strengths and is... Simply a little bit more flattering, also a bit more fit for the moment in time in the piece. So I have
Impact of Personal Relationships
00:36:45
Speaker
definitely like cut and paste certain lifts from one couple to another couple and it looks completely different to a point where I'm like this just isn't for you guys. And that's okay.
00:36:54
Speaker
That's something that I've leaned into more also after the choreographer experience. There were a lot of moments where working or resetting pieces between two different casts.
00:37:07
Speaker
When it was my group doing it, i was given some corrections or notes to lean in a certain direction. And then the next group would go and it's the same choreography. But they have slightly different emphasis on things and it does read differently and it does look different on everybody, but it's what feels right in the conversation between the person at the front of the room and the dancers. That's very well put. I always recommend that people come to multiple shows, not just because it helps us sum up on the bottom the blind, but it's fascinating to watch a different cast or the same cast doing a slightly different thing on a different day.
00:37:45
Speaker
What you're describing is just really beautiful. I love seeing what slightly different choreography on the same dancers looks like.
00:37:56
Speaker
That leads into my next question, which is what is it like to choreograph on your colleagues? Honestly. Working with my colleagues, I actually have found to be very helpful and very beautiful. And also one of the reasons why i chose now to be the time to bring in a more personal piece and a little bit more of an emotional lead into it, because I know them well.
00:38:29
Speaker
I feel a level of comfort to share a side of myself that's not always fully exposed and just... It's kind of some stuff that happened a long time ago and just isn't applicable anymore, but it is a part of the general storyline of peace.
00:38:44
Speaker
Knowing them, them knowing me, i was hoping, and I think it is, creating a more personal and a closer, deeper connection to the movement and to the peace as a whole I don't think I would have even chose to do anything like this if I was...
00:39:04
Speaker
creating somewhere new. Of course, I would love to, but just maybe wouldn't be my first instinct in creating. When we did Innovation 1, was my second season here.
00:39:18
Speaker
There were a handful of new dancers, a handful of new dancers in my piece that I hadn't met yet. And we opened the season with Innovation. So it was all new, new, knew knew new to me.
00:39:30
Speaker
And I created a good contemporary ballet piece, but there wasn't too much of like an emotional storyline going on with it. This year, with it being at the end of the season and also knowing in advance that we were doing another innovation, i was like, i definitely need to relight the fire of this choreographer side of me.
00:39:52
Speaker
And had been really wanting to do something in that direction and just kind of sharing kind of sort of the story of my mom and I's relationship through dance. It's very, very indirect, I would say, but it is there. it is there for me and everything's connected for me. So I think it just timing felt right to bring that in, working with my coworkers and having that closer relationship, I think,
00:40:17
Speaker
makes me a more open book with everything. i find that makes me more creative. Things are a little bit more unique. I'm less likely to default to maybe the same six moves but that my body naturally wants to do. I'm less likely to default to doing everything on the right side or on my dominant side. I'm like, oh let's try this out. Let's try on something different.
00:40:40
Speaker
Knowing my colleagues and knowing that they definitely have their own personal strengths, I also like leaning into highlighting those while also trying to offer them a little bit of something new and a little bit of something to dive into.
00:40:57
Speaker
I think that's more of what is natural to me and what are my strong suits. And that shows in my choreography. But then I also want to tie together as dancers where they're strong suits and bringing that into the mix for a new work.
00:41:12
Speaker
I think it just strengthens the piece overall when you give people moments to feel really, truly themselves and feel really confident in themselves at a certain point in time.
00:41:23
Speaker
And so I think the
Supportive Environment at Madison Ballet
00:41:24
Speaker
closeness of working with your coworkers is what I find to be like the best part about working with your coworkers. Otherwise, what it's like, it's just fun. we talk, we laugh. Sometimes it's very casual. I'm like, hey, does this feel silly?
00:41:41
Speaker
Does this feel ridiculous? Sometimes they're kind of like, hey, yeah I'm like, just tell me yes. It's okay. Like, just tell me yes and we'll move on and we'll move forward. Like, I want to know. Like, I want to know just straight up, this isn't going to work.
00:41:53
Speaker
And I'll move on and we'll keep pushing forward and trying to find something different that does work. And that in itself challenges me. Something like that is what I really enjoyed watching you in rehearsal with when you know Ben was saying, okay, well, I can turn her this way and then we can do this.
00:42:12
Speaker
And it wasn't your vision is wrong. It was how can I best execute your vision given the physics of you know the human body?
00:42:23
Speaker
That trust is something that I've been able to see over the years with you and your colleagues in the room. doing something together that's really beautiful and i think something that the innovation to slate does bring to the table that's different from other mixed rep shows where you guys making dances on each other demonstrates a certain level of trust i'm game i'll do that
00:42:55
Speaker
That sounds fun. Have you seen anything of that in the room for your piece? And what do you bring to the other folks pieces on that program? Because I know you guys dance a lot on a Jamalik program.
00:43:10
Speaker
It can be tough, especially if it's like a program where our directors are maybe curating what the repertoire is. I've noticed a lot, like if something's being reset, there's still a lot of changes that happen. And I think those changes are made due to the new dancers and the bodies that are in this space and how that movement reads on them.
00:43:32
Speaker
i try my very hardest to have similar energy on both sides, maybe verbally that is different. Like at the front of the room, I'm talking a lot more versus at the back of the room.
00:43:45
Speaker
But in another process, whether it's another dancer, if it's Ja, Malik or Richard, if there's a moment to offer a suggestion or to share that something maybe feels slightly off and that my body maybe naturally could go in a slightly different direction, like I do have the confidence to share that.
00:44:07
Speaker
At the same time, it's very understandable and does happen to probably all of us and me too sometimes to have like a little bit of hesitation to share just because in a setting where it's another person at the front, especially it is your director, the usual expectation is to...
00:44:25
Speaker
I guess, do what they ask and try to replicate that as closely as possible. With that, Ja and Richard are really, really amazing about giving us a lot of room for individuality.
00:44:39
Speaker
So as a dancer in another process with my colleagues, I don't find it too different. I think the level of stress is down just a touch. But the same things are happening, you know. Something's being created, we're trying it out, we're feeling it out.
00:44:54
Speaker
We're sharing feedback. We're having the conversation and we keep moving forward. i do try to give a little bit more... empathy or maybe wiggle room towards how the dancers are feeling. Because sometimes I also feel it's like, okay, today's the day we're going to try to do two runs and i don't necessarily have a choice in that. It needs to be done. Sometimes it needs to be filmed and maybe you're not feeling the best that day and you don't really want to be on camera.
00:45:20
Speaker
And having the reminder of like, you know, it's all part of the process.
Pointe Shoes Preferences
00:45:24
Speaker
But at the same time, feeling that in rehearsal, i try to have empathy for that in my own process and Ask them on breaks, just be like, okay, person to person, how are we doing?
00:45:35
Speaker
Sometimes with new material, it's just like, okay, our brains are fried a little bit. There's just a lot going on Other times it's just been a long day and it's tiring. i try to plan. I try to have a good like plan of action. I'll try to steer towards running things earlier in the day when the bodies are a little bit fresher, a little bit less tired. I always feel my best starting off there, nice and warm from class. Haven't had an hour where I've just been kind of wiggling my toes in the shoes because we've been doing notes and cleaning and maybe you haven't been moving as fully as you were before and things get a little c crunchy, a little sticky after a while. So I think the main thing is just like overall health, just to answer health, mentally how we're doing through the process, I try to really keep that in consideration.
00:46:21
Speaker
But we do a really great job in every other process of doing that. I'm always interested whenever we have an active ballerina on to ask what your shoes are. Like, what do you wear?
00:46:32
Speaker
I wear freeds. I wear Freed of London. are in the process of getting customs, which is super exciting. So it'll be my first professional custom pair of shoes. Right now I'm wearing DVs, which is their kind of classic shoe.
00:46:46
Speaker
My favorite maker is Clef. looks like a little treble Clef stamp, like a music note on the back of the shoe. That's going to be my ah maker for the customs when they come in. But right now I'm in the DVs. I'm a four and a half double X. Right now I'm trying out some new makers. Different maker every time with freeds. Same size and everything, but the makers really shifts a little bit. couple new makers I've been trying. Spade I really like. That's been fun. But yeah, so mainly freeds. I've been in freeds for also most of my dance point shoe journey.
Dream Roles and Aspirations
00:47:18
Speaker
How does a change in either shoe or size work? Do you just try to go with whatever you feel comfortable in as long as possible? But then how do you know that something is not quite doing it and jump to something else?
00:47:33
Speaker
Big difference between knowing what you need as a student and then as a professional, the demand is completely different. and So I think as a student, you're looking for something that's going to build you strength. But when you're first getting into pointe shoes, a lot of the times the studio will set up a fitting for you. you try on a whole bunch of shoes, see what's happening, pick a pair, wear them, see how it goes. And hopefully that does really work out for you. I've had a lot of experiences at summer intensives, for example, Boston Ballet or School of American Ballet, where their companies are very closely connected to Freed of London. And so therefore they have fitters from Freed of London come for a day or two during the summer intensive and they'll give everybody free pointe shoe fittings. That's what initially got me into Freeds, especially because I was going into joining the year round program at Boston Ballet. Initially at the time it was a requirement to wear Freeds that has shifted over time, but it does work for me.
00:48:28
Speaker
As a professional, I think it unfortunately, a lot of times can come from aches and pains and maybe even injuries. The demand of your work can change. You might decide you need a harder shoe. Some people that I know that used to wear freeds wear shoes that are a little bit harder now because the freeds are known to die very, very fast, and they do.
00:48:51
Speaker
Each dancer has a preference if they like a softer shoe or a harder shoe, and you find something that kind of fits that. Some people deal with bunion pain. That's kind of my thing right now. That's why I've been looking into the customs to support that.
00:49:04
Speaker
Corns, blisters, if something's kind of rubbing in your feet, that can be a sign that maybe it's too tight or too long. potentially, and you might just want to like get your sizing readjusted. And I think as professionals, I mean, I know I haven't been fit for pointe shoes in a long time, but I have changed things up here and there over the years. Maybe I should get a fitting sometime soon. I think we should all get refit for some pointe shoes a little more often than we do.
00:49:32
Speaker
It's fascinating because it's expensive and it is particular to your foot. And I'm just amazed at how much dancers are aware of their bodies.
00:49:46
Speaker
And I think we could all be a little more aware of the shack that we occupy. A body in space.
Future of Choreography
00:49:55
Speaker
And the pointe shoe is a very pointed way of of looking at that.
00:50:00
Speaker
I did want to ask you before we leave, what are some dream roles that you would like to dance or that you have danced? Or what do you feel most energized by when you are on stage dancing?
00:50:14
Speaker
Off the top of my head, i have two very clear dream ballets. Roles, yeah, I wouldn't necessarily have anything in particular. I mean, as similar to story ballets in wanting to portray maybe Aurora in Sleeping Beauty or...
00:50:36
Speaker
Odette and Ordeal in Swan Lake or Giselle, like having that kind of main feature is always, you know, the place to push for a little bit more of a soloist moment.
00:50:47
Speaker
But i remember my first year in Boston, we used to have a little study hall situation and they have this beautiful giant conference room, long table, lots of chairs,
00:51:00
Speaker
That sits slightly above their main studio in the building. And there's a nice wide window. And you can look down on the large studio where the company rehearses. And they opened that season with a mixed rep program. And one of the ballets in there was Blake Works One by William Forsyth. And I remember watching that, hearing music.
00:51:23
Speaker
And that just has been my dream. Ballet, since then, it has not changed. I'm always just in awe of the music and the choreography together. I've had a few small opportunities to learn some Forsyth choreography through Boston Ballet, and that just...
00:51:41
Speaker
So resonated with me. That definitely solidified a little bit of that contemporary ballet in me and in myself. I found myself really identifying with that.
00:51:52
Speaker
Simultaneously, another dream ballet of mine is Four Temperaments by George Balanchine. For a specific reason. And it's because we were learning it right before COVID hit in Boston. And I was given a lot of opportunity in at least with what I was learning and like multiple roles and duets through different movements. Yeah. And it was going to be kind of a combo of the trainee program, which is like at the time the highest level goal for the school and then pre-pros, the you kind of top two levels were mixed in there as well. And so COVID hit and the show ended up being canceled and you never finished setting it and never performed it.
00:52:32
Speaker
I know the ballet has made its way back into the company's repertoire since, but that'd be a dream to perform just to kind of almost have a full circle moment, honestly. i just remember being so excited to learn and feeling that it really pushed me and really challenged me in kind of a neoclassical way.
00:52:51
Speaker
So those two really stick out for sure. I can't imagine what it's like to have to embody another choreographer's work, especially when they send the Balanchine Trust or the Robbins folks to say, no, you're you're doing it wrong or whatever.
00:53:08
Speaker
But it does seem like it's so beautiful that Forsythe Balanchine, Robbins, we do have a lot of twentieth century American stuff to build on.
00:53:21
Speaker
Do you feel like choreography going into the 21st century, tree or i guess the second quaternary of it, is in a good place? Or what would you like to see folks doing?
00:53:35
Speaker
I don't know. Honestly, i think there's ah a lot of new work being created. I'm involved in a lot of new work here at Madison Valley. What I'm enjoying is there's just always something new that I can find, whether it's just something different to explore within myself, or maybe it is similar to Balanchine Trust or Robin's, like a person coming in saying it it kind of is meant to be done a certain way. Like like there's a challenge within that as well.
00:53:59
Speaker
There are lot of people and a lot of companies that doing stuff that is similar to us, that is shifting ballet in a positive direction, bringing new things into choreography, more female choreography, always pushing for that. I'm here if you need me to add to join in. I really love what I'm seeing right now is newer, full-length story ballets that are real stories from...
00:54:29
Speaker
life And I will point one out in particular. It's Annabelle Lopez Ochoa. She created a ballet based on the life of Frida Kahlo. It's a story ballet. It's new.
00:54:41
Speaker
It's not maybe not like a classic, but I see it maybe shifting in that. direction or it could shift in that direction. and it may be a classic. It may turn into a classic.
00:54:52
Speaker
Yeah, there are a few other that are shifting around, but I see that as something like really beautiful female choreographers creating stories about women and sharing those stories through ballet that maybe have not been previously expressed through ballet.
00:55:05
Speaker
I'd like to be a part of more of that. Well, I think you definitely are as a choreographer two times over, at least in my experience in Madison Ballet, both in Innovation and Innovation 2. You are very early in your dance career, so I wouldn't presume to ask you what you think you'd like to do after. but I'm curious, do you think about what comes next? And if you do, what is that?
00:55:31
Speaker
I do, i mean, at least right now in this phase of my life, I do feel that choreography would be you really great shift out of maybe a dance career. I'd love to dance as as long as my body will allow me to. I do see that in my future. I would love that to be in my future if the opportunities allow.
00:55:50
Speaker
i love seeing Tyler Peck create a New York City ballet while she's actively dancing. And I think she's working on a full-length ballet that actively like a very long...
00:56:00
Speaker
creation and that I find to would just be very inspiring something I look towards and I see like okay she can do it i could do it too maybe down the line somewhere later Kylie Kwan as well another example and she had a career with Ballet X and has shifted more into the choreography scene Choreography be great.
00:56:18
Speaker
Maybe even staging, maybe just tagging along with the choreographer that's already around and kind of dipping my toes into helping share ballets that maybe have already been created. Maybe if there's choreographer who no longer is able to reset those ballets or maybe has passed on and And maybe I turn into the person to help keep those ballets alive and share them with more companies, more dancers, more audiences. i think those two things are kind of top of my mind. But obviously, we move in a lot of phases and a lot of things have changed. And we'll see if that sticks around.
00:56:59
Speaker
I certainly hope that that's something that you can continue to do. I love your thoughtful approach to advancing the canon. And that's something that I always admire in artists.
00:57:13
Speaker
I think you're up to good stuff. So. That's wonderful. Thank you. i appreciate that. Thank you so much, Charlotte. I really appreciate you joining us for this podcast. What are you up to in the summer? Like, is it just conditioning for the next season? do you produce anything? what What's up?
00:57:34
Speaker
I definitely want to gather a little bit more choreographic material. i could use just a little bit more something to have maybe a video reel to share that just says like, hey, this is me as a choreographer. This is my voice. Now that there's an innovation and an innovation too, I think I have a few more things to pull from. But it'd be cool to just experiment with my friends over the summer.
00:57:55
Speaker
If people are in town, I can bring them in A lot of us, including myself, will just be picking up more teaching hours while we have a little bit longer of a layoff. A bit of travel and just enjoying Madison my plans, but also work and and staying in shape and just finding a good balance.
00:58:13
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, Charles. I appreciate it. And we will see you and your work at Innovation 2, May 8th through 10th at Promenade at O'Richard Center.
00:58:25
Speaker
And we look forward to seeing you at the theater. Thanks so much.
00:58:32
Speaker
Thank you for tuning in to At The Bar with Madison Ballet Special Projects. If you enjoyed this episode, we invite you to experience Madison Ballet in person by joining us at one of our upcoming performances or community events.
00:58:47
Speaker
From accessible, innovative productions to in-depth conversations with artists, our goal is to create welcoming spaces where everyone can experience ballet in a meaningful way.
00:58:58
Speaker
You can find performance dates, event details, and ticket information on our website and social media platforms. Whether it's your first time attending or you're a long-time supporter, we'd love to see you in the audience and share the experience with you live.
00:59:13
Speaker
Thanks again for listening. We hope to see you at the ballet soon.