Transcript
Speaker: I'm Chris Ferenthal, director of Madison Ballet Special Projects, and this is At the Bar, your behind-the-scenes look at the ideas, stories, and creative processes shaping Madison Ballet's work.
Speaker: Each episode brings our community a little closer to the dancers, choreographers, and collaborators who are making ballet in Madison right now. Whether you're a seasoned ballet domain, current or former dancer, or simply curious about how dance gets made, we warmly invite you into the room where it happens.
Speaker: Welcome back to At the Bar with Madison Ballet Special Projects. I'm Chris Farenthold, Director of Special Projects. And today I'm so excited to be joined by Eric Stith, a co-worker of mine, not only a company dancer, but a choreographer on our May Mixed Rep program, Innovation 2, which will be at Promenade at Overture Center May 8th through 10th. So I'm really excited that you're here. and Thanks for joining us on the podcast.
Speaker: Of course. I'm very excited to be here. I know you do amazing interviews. I know you do amazing work and you've been in the background, like do studying and, you know, really reading up on us. So I'm very, very excited to work with you today.
Speaker: Thank you for all that. That's very sweet because I'm not a dancer. I've had to make up for it by learning, learning really quickly. It's been fun starting on the production staff and finding that I fell in love with ballet by asking all you guys questions about what do you need? What's going on? What is this step called? And all that. So you all have been helpful and not just teaching me, but awakening more of a curiosity. So I'm excited to share some of that with your public. I'm curious what your dance training was like growing up and if there were any other artistic or athletic things that kind of competed for your attention or if it was just all ballet all the way.
Speaker: For me, I had like a very like slow progression into like starting to train professionally because I started at like the age of seven where I was at the school called Older Nation School for the Gifted and Talented.
Speaker: where we only went to this school once a week. And that training like spread through the time I was seven to about fourteen. So for seven years, I danced once a week.
Speaker: There was a good foundation and a good base for building technique and for building artistry as like a mover and a dancer, but... I didn't have any of like the technique and the principles of what someone would have if they had started training at a professional school at that age.
Speaker: And so when I finally did go to high school, I was 14 around that time, i got into the Governor's School for the Arts. That was where my like serious ballet training started. Concert dance, I really should say, because we did everything like spanning from Eric Hawkins, Paul Taylor,
Speaker: Even with our ballet program, like, going into doing like Papalia or La Biodia. So that was where I really got a real taste for like what concert dance is and for what ballet technique is. And that was where like the passion came in as well for ballet. Because at first I hated ballet, of course, i think as one does. It just was not my thing. I thought it was, like, extremely boring, and I just didn't get the regimen of it
Speaker: But once I really started to do more research and actually dance these ballets, then I was like, okay, this is kind of fun. Once i went to that school, started going to summer intensives, and, like, was really digging into different techniques and different styles, that was when I knew for sure, like, around the age of 15, 16 is when i was like...
Speaker: I'm definitely going to be a professional ballet dancer. And there was no ifs, ands, or buts about it. It's good to know early that you're going to want to devote that much time to your craft. 15. That's impressive.
Speaker: would be surprised That's actually pretty late to me, personally, I would think. Or I would think for most dancers that's pretty late. Like, most of us usually make that commitment by, like, ten.
Speaker: And so for me, fifteen, even still now, like, I still feel like I'm behind in certain ways, and I still feel like, you know, I wish I was at this serious training school when I was, like, seven years old, because then I probably would have made that commitment at ten, and... you know, made completely different decisions. But I'm happy with where I am now. Like, I've grown so much, like, since that time. and It feels like forever ago.
Speaker: You grew up in Virginia, right? Yes. oh so you went to high school there, too? Yes, I went to regular school and I went to the performing arts high school at the same time.
Speaker: So I literally went to my regular school from 7 a.m. to 12, and then I danced at my performing arts school from 1 5.
Speaker: And then when i started dancing at a studio at around like 16, Elevate Performing Arts Center, then I was dancing from like 6 10. six to ten So I would literally just go a full like day of just school and dance Monday through Saturday, really.
Speaker: And that became like such a heavy schedule. So I went to like all three of those things at like the same time. I'm always amazed at how well you dancers can multitask because you kind of have to do so many things at once, whether it's learning multiple rep at once or, you know, having multiple jobs or school and work and dance. It's a lot.
Speaker: Yes. I think us dancers really have to learn at a very young age how to compartmentalize very quickly. That I don't think most people really gain that skill until they become an adult. But dancers really have to learn it from the time they're like a teenager. Like you have to be able to understand like This is school time. I'm at school. I need to pay attention. This is ballet class. I need to pay attention and be here learn as much as I can. This is whatever. We have to compartmentalize and be smart about our timing, which can be very hard. And I think the longer dancers go without learning that process, the more dancers, you know, become, I think, stressed out with the art form. And that's where you sort of get the burnout because they're in too many different worlds at the same time.
Speaker: That makes sense. So how did you make your way to Madison Ballet? It was actually Ja Malik. You know, Ja is like my savior of like my whole entire ballet journey, like over the last couple of years.
Speaker: We met at Charlotte Ballet when I was still there in the second company. When he finally texted me to be able to work at Madison Ballet as a guest artist, I wasn't dancing anymore. I had quit dance.
Speaker: But I don't believe he knew that at the time. And so he was like, oh if you're looking to do something else, like looking for any work during Nutcracker, you should come in and join. And I was like,
Speaker: I don't know, but I guess I'll see, you know? Because I really did not want to dance at the time. I had that burnout. I hadn't learned compartmentalizing yet. And I needed some time away.
Speaker: But thankfully, i heard from Ja because I came here for Nutcracker as a guest artist and I ended up having like an amazing time and loving it here Loving all the company members here.
Speaker: And I felt like I had like a fresh start. So it was a saving grace at December of 2022. It was amazing talking with Ja about his Rolodex of all the dancers and choreographers that he's collected over the years. And it seems like when he sees someone, he goes and he gets them and he usually gets his way. So had he been in Charlotte setting a ballet on your second company or the main company and met you that way?
Speaker: He was choreographing a new ballet called Gypsy Moths on the main company at Charlotte Ballet at the time, and I was just in the bag. And I remember that rehearsal like it was yesterday, because I just remember, like,
Speaker: Seeing him, and surprisingly, like, at the same time he was there, Rena Butler was also there choreographing a new ballet called Subliminal Tsunami. I just remember seeing two beautiful, amazing, talented, like, Black artists at the same time.
Speaker: And they do completely different works and have completely different voices. But I remember remember feeling included somehow. And even though I wasn't in either of the pieces, but I remember being in the room and finally just being able to be like, I can dance, I think.
Speaker: And I still say I think because at that time I was so like, I had no idea what I was doing. i had no idea what was going on and I was just trying to make it work. I just wanted to finally just be free and dance. So I remember being in the back of the room like,
Speaker: I had no idea what was going on, i had no idea what the ballet was, had no idea why or where i was there, but I just was, I remember I was just in the back and I was like, I'm just gonna learn this and do it well. And so I hope that is what like, Zhao remembers from me back then.
Speaker: Oh, that's really beautiful. I like that story of how you got here. And I'm glad that he did reach out to you because you've been a pleasure to work with these past several years. I'm curious when you realized you had a choreographic urge, or is that something that you've been aware of as long as you've been dancing? Or is that something that emerged later? And what choreographers would you say that you're influenced by, or at least that have helped you develop your own voice?
Speaker: I think I always had the inkling that I wanted to choreograph. I don't think I knew until way later what it was that I wanted to choreograph. And I think those are just two different things and two very big questions. So I remember like around the time in high school, like I fell in love with Balanchine. I remember I 16.
Speaker: First ballet had ever watched was Agon. And I was like, what is this? This is ballet. You know? I just remember. like It was the perfect mix of what I was learning in school. i was learning...
Speaker: ballet technique, but I was also in these modern courses where I was moving my body in different ways that felt completely different than ballet. And I felt like Balancing was like sort of like that perfect mix of like older style ballet, older style of modern.
Speaker: And that's exactly where contemporary ballet comes from and how we get to like the worst that we do now. And so I remember watching that, falling in love, and thinking i wanted to create my own contemporary ballet works in a way that were around, like, let's say 30 minutes, like how a lot of Balanchthon ballets are, or even longer. But I had no idea what exactly wanted to do with that.
Speaker: And so it wasn't until last summer, like summer of 2025, I three pieces at the same time, like around the same couple of weeks.
Speaker: And all those pieces finally connected for me of what it was that I wanted to do. Obviously, i choreographed other times. Like my first real ballet was at Charlotte Ballet's Choreographic Lab, and that was in 2021, believe.
Speaker: But that still wasn't necessarily what I felt like my vision was. I was happy with that piece, but it it still wasn't there, and I knew that. And so, like I said, it wasn't until last summer where I choreographed those pieces, and it was finally that mix of ballet and that mix of modern of what I was looking for.
Speaker: But it also just kept the important values that I think I needed for choreography, which is like musicality, innovation, or just like creativity of ballet technique.
Speaker: And when I say ballet technique, I really mean like how... to get in and out of steps that feel uncomfortable. How to get in and out of the ballet steps that we learn all through class and then changing it in a way to where like it's almost unrecognizable. But someone who knows that step would absolutely know what it was.
Speaker: And then I think the last thing does how does my choreography fit into my life as a queer Black person in America.
Speaker: What does my choreography mean in that aspect? And it was finally in those three pieces last summer that I was like, This is it.
Speaker: This is it And so when we were able to like send out proposals for this In Next Innovation 2 program, and I was like, I finally think I have my vision. I'm going to go for a bigger group. I'm going to go for bigger music. And I'm going to do exactly what it is that I set my mind to.
Speaker: And I feel like that that's exactly what I'm doing. That's really exciting, that feeling of arrival that you must have with internalizing everything that you've experienced before, but then also putting it together into something new and having some sense of awareness that you are at that stage. That's really cool. And I'm excited to see the full piece.
Speaker: Hi Madison, Caitlin Sloan, strategic advisor for Madison Ballet Special Projects, popping in to share a magical opportunity for the whole family this spring. Our popular ballet story time is back and coming to a library near you with an interactive experience that brings the beloved book, Giraffes Can't Dance, to life.
Speaker: Throughout March and April, we'll be heading to eight local libraries in the Madison area to share our love for ballet. We'll be presenting a narrated story time, featuring felt characters followed by a playful, beginner-friendly ballet lesson.
Speaker: Young dancers will explore the art of ballet while discovering how choreographers create dances using space, rhythm, and movement quality. Best of all, they'll learn an important message.
Speaker: There are so many different ways to move and everyone can find a style they love. No dance experience needed, just your imagination. Visit MadisonBalletSpecialProjects.com for our full schedule of events and we'll see you at the library soon.
Speaker: So let's talk about that piece that you're at work on now. Can you tell us a little bit about the genesis of that piece and where the impulse comes from both musically and movement-wise?
Speaker: The piece is called Genesis 1, verse 3, which is that like very iconic Bible verse, and God said, let there be light, and there was light.
Speaker: And a big roundabout way of like getting to my point, the piece is really an ode or like an homage to my grandfather, Eric Stitt Sr., who passed away and in 2022.
Speaker: twenty twenty two Also, like, that same year that I quit Dan. So there was just, like, a lot of things going on around that time. The work is basically, like, a huge celebration to his life and what I feel like he has given to me. When my family talks about my grandfather, like, he's looked at as, like, this great high patriarch of the family, like,
Speaker: where everything held together like glue because of him. And so, like, I feel like I have these beautiful relationships with my family because of him.
Speaker: And so I felt like I definitely did not want to do a piece that was the sad nature of how he died or... Whatever the case may be, like it is a celebration. It's a huge thank you to him and to what he has given me as a person.
Speaker: And so how do I round that out to Genesis 1, verse 3? How does that make any sense? My grandfather, like when he was alive, he never read another book besides the Bible. like I never saw him.
Speaker: read another book in my life. The entire 21 years that I'd known him, never seen him read another book. And he knew every word. He was reading it front to back every single time that I was there. So I felt like there was no other way to truly...
Speaker: honor him and think about him without having that like biblical aspect to the ballet. of course the ballet is not a narrative or anything like that. So it's not like we have these like Adam and Eve characters or anything in the ballet, but it does have that like energy of the Old Testament. And that makes sense.
Speaker: I like the aspect of um artistic creation. That's also being kind of played with and the creation of anything with a let there be light or let there be dance or let there be whatever new work is is right in front of you. What is the music that you've used? It is celebratory and it does have that kind of rhythmic, repetitive iterations that allow, I think, for a really good non-story work that still has forward movement. So what are you using? So the music I'm using is Steve Reich's octet that comes from music for a large ensemble. So you have no choice but to have a large ensemble for the ballet when you use that music.
Speaker: I love it. That polyphonic, like it has some sort of dissonant sounds in there that really has inspired and has inspired some of the movement in the piece. A lot of it is very rough in a way. It's very gritty. And I feel like that that's sort of like Steve Reich's style. It's very real and it's in your face. And I feel like that's sort of what I gave with some of the choreography and the ballad. Yeah, there's very much in the moment feel to it because those changes come subtly, but then they come. I remember Madison Ballet did a Jamalik piece a couple of years ago to Steve Reich music and backstage it was really interesting watching dancers try to keep track of the counts of how many times till the next change. And in your rehearsal,
Speaker: Saw your dancers doing the same thing and you're engaging both their mind, but also it does have a profluent kind of quality that just draws you into the movement. it's been exciting.
Speaker: Yes. Yeah. I mean, you have no choice but to be completely sucked in by that music. All those difficult counts and difficult musicality changes. Like, yeah, like we had a time...
Speaker: in the studio last week. And that was only less than half of the cast. only had eight dancers last week to work and kind of workshop the movement that wanted to put out to be able to put on the rest of the company.
Speaker: we had a time figuring out the musicality and counts and... There's even a point of the video that like you didn't see where I'm just sitting in the corner and I'm just stomping on the ground, like the timing. I'm just stomping, stomping, stomping to get them to like hear that music. So we have some word put out for us.
Speaker: Well, I'm excited to see the rest of it when you get into the room with your full cast, full transparency. We're recording this in March while you guys are rehearsing the April rep and then kind of getting a little ahead of things. I like though that you can maybe workshop some things first and then when you get your full cast explore things further do you come into the room generally with the steps of the movement that you want and it's a matter of setting it or do you discover any of those things in the room with the dancers that you have
Speaker: It's definitely both. There's an element of both, I think, in every choreographic process. One part of like the choreographic process that isn't talked about a lot is if you already like know your idea before sort of coming in For a while, you have this like dream world in your head that you can only access by like listening to the music most of the time.
Speaker: So I was listening to this music over and over again, like every morning, every night, and I was just in my dream world where I'm not really necessarily creating steps, but I am creating the energy and the tone of every section.
Speaker: And so, no, i didn't come in with necessarily any steps, but I knew... what it was that I wanted, if that makes sense. So of course it always starts with, let's say, tendu, but then as we go through, it's developed into whatever it could be by the end, and then you don't even have the tendu anymore. That's just how the choreographic process goes.
Speaker: So no, I definitely didn't come in with any steps, but we played with my ideas as we went. And I just am pretty much like, let's just get it done. So it didn't take very long. And it was such a quick process. And not only because of the fact that I had ideas, but because of just the people that I had, like,
Speaker: Those dancers are amazing to work with, and they were very open and excited to work with me, which a lot of them I've already worked with before as well. So they know what it is that I'm looking for, what it is that... like, how the process is gonna go. They were great. So, like...
Speaker: A lot of of those sections that we did, we were able to like get it done and finish it in like an hour and then move on to the next section. And so that's how like, I mean, the ballet is 18 to 19 minutes. We pretty much did that in a week. We were done by like the third day.
Speaker: Yeah, you will be popular with artistic directors if you can work that quickly and of install your pieces. Let's talk about that process of working with your fellow dancers. But when you are leading the room, does that change the dynamic at all? Or are you guys all just so familiar with each other that it's not as hierarchical or does nothing change or does everything change?
Speaker: I would love to say that nothing changes, but that's just not true. I would love to say that it is just something that happens really seamlessly, but it's not always the case. I mean, I think since I've gotten to Madison, I've probably choreographed maybe five works on all of the dancers. Well, not all of them, but the dancers that I've worked on. on him It definitely was a bit of a curve.
Speaker: When it came down to having like a working choreographer to dance a relationship and to keep it like positive, to keep it lighthearted, for them to also be open and willing to work with me, to trust me, i think that that's the big part of it.
Speaker: was I think at the beginning they didn't necessarily trust me. And I think all dancers sort of walk into the process a little bit nervous, because you just have no idea how that choreographer is, like, and what their personality is. So we all kind of walk in like, is this gonna be a fun week? Or is this gonna be a tough week? you know And I think that my process is a bit of both. I would like to say, like I think I'm a great time, and we have laughs, and we joke around, and we do all the things, but it's also like, we have to be serious, and we have to get this ballet done, and we don't ever have a ton of time. like The fact that I had a whole week, five hours a day,
Speaker: to choreograph a ballet, like I haven't experienced that since the last Innovation show. So all those other pieces in between have been six-hour processes, eight-hour processes, very short processes where I had to come in get it done, and I think that it kind of became a challenge because I'm just moving, moving, moving, movement and they're like, who are you and when do we get a break?
Speaker: I think that over time, the dynamic has really shifted, and now I am able to work with all the dancers, and it is a very seamless, very pleasurable process But I think when did you have those short processes and then you also have a lack of compensation and things like that, like, that's where the problems sort of start to come in because with those circumstances, it's usually kind of looked at as like, oh, like, this ballet probably shouldn't be very difficult or this ballet probably shouldn't be...
Speaker: whatever, but at the end of the day, like, we are creating work here. And so it has to be whatever it needs to be to be able to put out that artistic vision.
Speaker: so I think like, like with the LearningCurve, it's been amazing. I love working with them. I think it's fascinating that the entire program is going to be works by Madison Ballet dancer choreographers on the company. So you will be in ballets by your colleagues. And so it's probably helpful in you guys being able to see other sides of each other.
Speaker: and experience many different ways of working with hopefully a little more trust because you do work together all the time and it's not someone just flying in. That has got to be a little weird, I bet, yeah.
Speaker: I mean, and everyone runs their room, like, very differently. But I think as emerging choreographers to walk in and to establish trust, establish respect, establish us a strong energy in the room, and that will...
Speaker: create a perfect process, basically, if that makes sense. I think it's when people sort of like come in the room and they don't necessarily know what exactly to do or when the process becomes very taxing on the dancers, that's when it can kind of go left. Yes, it plays a lot on us.
Speaker: to be able to make it not weird, basically. You've got a lot of dancing ahead of you, but is choreographing something that you'd like to do professionally in addition or beyond your dancing career? Or is is there something else in the ballet world you'd like to get into when the time comes?
Speaker: I think I want to be very open to the possibilities of like what the dance world could offer to me. But yes, the number one goal is to choreograph, is to travel and go to different ballet companies and choreograph on the companies there and work with many different people. like That's like number one.
Speaker: But I'd also love to just sit at one place, you know, be artistic director or even just work in the financial department of a ballet company and like be able to assist in that side of a completely different world, but still be in the ballet world, if that makes sense.
Speaker: I have the number one goal, but I'm open to exploring different areas. Yeah, absolutely. Are there particular roles that you are looking forward in your career to dancing or particular pieces that you would like to um have Jamalik bring here for us to stage or dream roles?
Speaker: I think every dancer has the dream role to do balancing ballets, of course. That's like number one. You know, then there's Forsythe, then there's Martha Graham, and there's all these different choreographers. And now there's, you know, also all these up-and-coming choreographers and people who are moving around like Reena Butler and like Matutu Zeli. Like, of course, we all want to work with them and be able to do their...
Speaker: their works But I also think for me, like, I've been a lot happier as a dancer when I'm able to just appreciate what I have in front of me. So the idea of these dream roles isn't as precious as, like, what they used to be when I was, like, a lot younger. and I'm very appreciative for the work that I do with Ja Malik. I'm very appreciative for the new choreographers that Ja Malik brings in to work with us. And it's a great honor to be able to work with these choreographers. And it's extremely pleasurable when they want to work with me, specifically, and they take time out talk to me and they take time out to work with me to push me.
Speaker: That is way more important to me now than dream roles. yeah I like that you mentioned Agon particular. That's one of those ballets whose score I enjoy listening to. And it's wild to me to imagine how it could possibly be counted and danced to. What other Balanchine works are are your favorites that you've either just liked to watch or that you find creative inspiration from?
Speaker: Number one for sure is Tarantella. Like, I want to do that ballet so badly. i love speed and I love that feeling at the end. Like, when you're done dancing and, like, you think you're gonna die, but you don't. That adrenaline rush. I love it. Tarantella is, like, one of those ballets for me that is just, like, seems perfect.
Speaker: I'd also really want to do, like, Rubies or something like that, like, in the jewels aspect. But Rubies is, like, the most fun. Yeah, I would like to see your rubies. That would be fun.
Speaker: Going back to Genesis 1, verse 3, what can folks expect when they do see your piece? What kind of quality of movement or experience do you think the first time, never been to a mixed rep showgoer might be looking for that they might enjoy?
Speaker: I think in every, like, mixed rep program, there's the many different categories. There's usually, like, the fun ballet. There's the really technically challenging one There's the kind of emotional one Mine is definitely probably the technically challenging one and the one back. is probably going for, like, the element of virtuosity.
Speaker: And so I think someone that is just now experiencing it, like, I hope that they are able to appreciate the level of work that is put into these ballets. For someone that also goes to these ballets all the time and and experiences all these different types of works and things like that, I hope that they can, like, appreciate, like, a new perspective from a young Black queer artists that probably doesn't make any sense to them, but they also can definitely recognize the steps and recognize the ballet vocabulary in all of it. I mean, it's just what Madison Ballet does. I feel very honored to do the ballets that we do. So I think that there's also a level of, I want to be at that same level.
Speaker: So I wanted this work to represent what we do artists Madison Ballet. I do think that Jamalik's programs over these past several seasons have given audiences quite a wide variety of what's kind of going on in contemporary ballet.
Speaker: I know he wouldn't put out a program you know under Madison Bellet's name if he didn't trust y'all to rise to the occasion and demonstrate what the company does and does well.
Speaker: I'm curious what your opinions are on the costume and lighting and how all that goes. Are you in talks with Fernanda, our costume designer, or does that come later? Or do you say just come up with something or what's that process?
Speaker: For me personally, when it comes to costumes, I always like to be very open, especially as like an emerging choreographer. A lot of the times I go to places and the costume budget and the costume opportunities are like usually pretty low. So it's like, let's just make it work, as you you know, but most of the time. But I do know that with this, like we do have a little bit of of room to find some nice costumes. Like, it's a ballet, so you're gonna see leotards, you're gonna see some tights, and you're gonna see some pointe shoes, for sure. And then with lighting, for me personally, I am really intoxicated with lighting and enthralled with how that works.
Speaker: And I will say that it can be very tough because you obviously have no idea, like, what... that specific lighting designer is gonna offer to you and you would have no idea what that specific lighting designer has, like, envisions for your ballet.
Speaker: But I love to play with the lights and I love to make the lights a part of the ballet. It's not just background. The lights are like another dancer in the work, if that makes sense. So that part is extremely important to me. And I think my ballets always are so much louder and so much more colorful with lighting.
Speaker: Oh, I can't wait to see it. I know that the rest of of our audience will enjoy seeing it as well at Promenade Hall and Overture Center between May 8th and May 10th. That's Innovation 2. Eric, thank you so much for joining me for this conversation. I've really enjoyed getting to know you better. And one of the goals of Madison Ballet Special Projects is to introduce Madison to its dancers and its choreographers.
Speaker: And I really look forward to the community getting to know you better as well. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. I had a great time chatting with you today. and yes, that is one of the things I'm so excited for is that I really hope that the Madison community can come out for this Innovations View show and be able to appreciate all the different voices and perspectives that us company members have to put out for that program.
Speaker: Thank
Speaker: Thank you for tuning in to At The Bar with Madison Ballet Special Projects. If you enjoyed this episode, we invite you to experience Madison Ballet in person by joining us at one of our upcoming performances or community events.
Speaker: From accessible, innovative productions to in-depth conversations with artists, our goal is to create welcoming spaces where everyone can experience ballet in a meaningful way.
Speaker: You can find performance dates, event details, and ticket information on our website and social media platforms. Whether it's your first time attending or you're a long-time supporter, we'd love to see you in the audience and share the experience with you live.
Speaker: Thanks again for listening. We hope to see you at the ballet soon.
