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Hands in the Dirt, Head in the Clouds
59 Plays2 days ago
In this nostalgic episode, Brett and Ray hold down the fort while their co-hosts are away, turning the podcast into a "man cave" for the day. What starts as a lighthearted check-in on their recent challenge to "sit under a tree" turns into a conversation tracing Ray's agricultural roots in eastern Kentucky.
Ray shares vivid memories of his childhood growing up on a farm in the eastern foothills—years spent with cattle, square bales, vegetables, and tobacco. He reflects on the sights, smells, and experiences that shaped his deep connection to the land and growing things, from running barefoot through hay fields to handpicking truck loads of beans with his siblings.
Listeners get an intimate portrait of life in Appalachian Kentucky during the 1980s and ’90s, the central role of tobacco in rural economies, and Ray’s unexpected return to agriculture via Berea College. With humor, humility, and insight, Ray describes the lessons learned—like knowing what you can and can't control—that have guided his path into Extension work.
This episode is a time capsule of Kentucky’s farming heritage and a tribute to the labor, love, and land that define it.
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: hortculturepodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
The Boys Are Back in Town
00:00:17
Brett
Well, greetings. Hello, hello.
00:00:19
Plant People
Hello, hello. We are the the dynamic duo today.
00:00:20
Brett
Is it safe to say the boys are back in town?
00:00:24
Plant People
You heard the voice of Alexis, who is actually not here. And of course, Jessica is still off today. So it's just the boys. Does that mean we can do and say what we want, Brett? Or will the evidence give us away in the future?
00:00:33
Brett
Yeah, this is the the pod has become the man cave. Is that what people say?
00:00:38
Plant People
I guess so, yes. We have tilted the ship in the other direction. Our balance is completely lost today on the two guys that are here.
00:00:47
Brett
yeah the The other two had more important things to do, and they just sort of propped us up and gave us some mics to do this is the reality of the situation.
00:00:53
Plant People
ah Yeah. They're like, listen, we know that the production value is going to go way down, but we want you to go ahead and do this episode anyways.
Reflections Under Trees
00:01:00
Plant People
You know, they let us know that they did not say that, but, uh,
00:01:03
Brett
Well, Ray, did I have a question? Did you, so a few episodes back, we talked with Jack from the Kentucky department of forestry, urban forestry initiative work.
00:01:16
Brett
And we said we were going to go out and sit under a tree. Have you done that yet?
00:01:21
Plant People
I've sat under a few trees since that time, actually. Yeah, I've sat but now I didn't do it for an extended period of time like I think we talked about.
00:01:24
Brett
Okay.
00:01:29
Plant People
Yeah, we talked about that.
00:01:29
Brett
Well, mean, any period of time, what what kind of trees were you sitting under?
00:01:32
Plant People
Well, I put up my hammock a while several days ago, and I attached one into a plum tree and one into a June apple tree, and I will, it's sitting under there technically, but I will lay in the hammock and look through the canopy up at the sky and just not think about a whole lot.
00:01:48
Brett
Oh man. Yeah. I think laying under it is like the next level, you know, that's, that's even more.
00:01:49
Plant People
Yeah.
00:01:52
Plant People
and It is like the Tom Sawyer level. I mean, you're not only just, you know, sitting there, you're reclining there, you know.
00:01:56
Brett
Yeah.
00:02:00
Brett
Yeah. Put in an aluminum fa fence that doesn't require any painting and then sit on, you know, then so it's like a,
00:02:05
Plant People
Yes. No, no. I have the wooden fence that isn't desperate needs. I look right at it and it's leaning, but I try to ignore the fact of maintenance. I do. I've not yet found someone to trick them into painting that, but just give me enough time and motivation.
00:02:18
Brett
Hmm.
00:02:21
Plant People
I'll make it happen.
00:02:21
Brett
What what other ah you said you said under trees a couple of times? What else? Where else were you under a tree?
00:02:26
Plant People
ah Yeah, I was probably, ah you know, I was able to take a little trip or two. One of my favorite local areas, and I've mentioned before, is ah Red River Gorge. I was able to go there and walk under the tree canopy and sit under the tree canopy and Enjoy that over, you know, I'll try to find some nice overlook that looks over some distance.
00:02:47
Plant People
And I love that being up on, you know, high places with some, I was Virginia pines that I was sitting under last. And that was pretty nice. Places with a lot of constant airflow. And I love that sound blowing through. So, yeah, I got some of that in.
00:03:01
Plant People
And that's always nice when I'm kind of feeling stressed or life gets a little too busy. That's usually my fallback position.
00:03:07
Brett
you really rose to the challenge.
00:03:09
Plant People
Yeah, I did. It's more of a constant like retreat for me when things get busy.
00:03:12
Brett
That was like the easiest thing for you.
00:03:15
Plant People
Yeah, I didn't set the bar too high.
00:03:15
Brett
was like It was like telling you to eat dinner or something.
00:03:17
Plant People
No, yeah, it's like, eat lunch.
00:03:17
Brett
Yeah.
00:03:19
Plant People
I'm like, I've got this. I will do this, and I know Brett's going to ask about it. How about you? Did you accomplish any of these things?
00:03:26
Brett
i I sat, we have a ah ah nice old but small dogwood in our backyard and we and I made the ah explicit intention to go out and sit there and and just kind of look.
00:03:32
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:03:39
Brett
It's also the place where I was sitting is from a different vantage point than where I usually sit in the yard and and just if you haven't ever seen our yard, there's a lot of, a lot of visual interest in different ah arches and plants and obviously the bonsai and the structures and stuff like that.
00:03:50
Plant People
Yeah.
00:03:55
Brett
So seeing it from a different perspective than the usual was kind of cool. And yeah, really nice. Unfortunately we're heading into mosquito season um or we're in, in, in it now.
00:04:05
Plant People
yeah
00:04:07
Brett
ah But they don't bother me too bad, but unfortunately they bother Annie. But yeah, it was really, it was a lovely little, And I'm glad I did it. A little experience.
00:04:18
Brett
So again, at the end of the episode with Jack a couple episodes ago, we we challenged ourselves and our listeners to go out and just sit under a tree and do nothing else besides just sitting under there and
Ray Tackett's Horticultural Roots
00:04:31
Plant People
Not allowed to have your phone out. Just.
00:04:32
Brett
yeah, just feeling.
00:04:33
Brett
And yeah know if you want to think, think. If not, if you just want to breathe and be and Yeah, so i wanted I wanted to check in on our intention there, and we can and and I wanted to put Alexis on the spot about it, but we can hold that off until maybe the next episode when she gets back with us.
00:04:42
Plant People
Oh yeah. I got it. Nailed it.
00:04:48
Plant People
We need to hold her accountable. So let's see if she's done that.
00:04:51
Brett
Someone's got to. Her reign of terror is over.
00:04:52
Plant People
I am thinking, I'm thinking she may be the guilty party. Yes. She is.
00:04:56
Brett
Yeah.
00:04:56
Plant People
And maybe not accomplished that. I don't want to put that on her. I will let her speak for herself when she comes back.
00:05:01
Brett
Yeah, she's like, what if I like ah like do some analysis of some spreadsheets while doing that? I'm no, that's not
00:05:07
Plant People
She's like, I sat under the canopy of the high tunnel and reflected on all the work that I have yet to do. I'm like, no, that's, that's not it, Alexis. No.
00:05:15
Brett
I was steaming inside the high tunnel.
00:05:17
Plant People
Yes.
00:05:18
Brett
It was 80 degrees and 80% humidity.
00:05:18
Plant People
Yeah. The sauna thinking ah that I need to bring the temperature down post haste.
00:05:24
Brett
Well, seeing as cn as it's just the two of us and we were trying to think of, what do we maybe want to talk about?
00:05:24
Plant People
Yes.
00:05:30
Brett
And I started to realize that most of what I know about this man, this myth, this legend, Ray Tackett, came from, has been...
00:05:42
Brett
I would say the earliest, probably since 2012, 2013, somewhere in there, and then much more over the last five years or so, I guess, since about maybe 2020 or so.
00:05:49
Plant People
sure.
00:05:56
Brett
And little tip snippets here and there from the from the podcast here and from hanging out and seeing each other and getting together more often.
00:06:08
Brett
But I i wanted to hope i hoped you would indulge me and and our audience with a little bit of a trip down your horticultural, agricultural ah past, the path to your agricultural past.
00:06:18
Plant People
ah sure
00:06:19
Brett
And and so I'll open by asking, this is a difficult one, so feel free to take second.
00:06:25
Plant People
Oh man, start with the hard ones first.
00:06:26
Brett
Maybe it's not, maybe, you'll always surprise me. But um what is your first concrete memory plants?
00:06:38
Plant People
Of plants, man, that's, I don't know. They've always been there. I'm the fish and is swimming through the water and I don't recognize the water. I'm trying to think as far as a definitive in memory.
00:06:50
Plant People
um of specific plants. I mean, had to be, I mean, I think a lot about, we had this old dairy barn that was on the farm that I grew up on and there was hay fields.
00:07:02
Plant People
And so I remember like the pokiness, the stickiness. We went without shoes in the summer lot when we were just running around the fields and stuff, but how ah sticky and pokey the fresh cut hay fields were and the smell of hay. That's pretty strong.
00:07:19
Plant People
And I love the the smell of fresh cut hay to this point.
00:07:19
Brett
Hmm. Hmm.
00:07:22
Plant People
But it was a grass hay field, primarily grass hay with a little bit of clover in it. But I remember the smell of that. That's one of my absolute earliest memories. And it was outside of what we call the old dairy barn, this old barn with a field next to it.
00:07:36
Plant People
And that's probably the one of the earliest ones I can think of specifically involving plants. Yeah. Did you have one, Brett? I mean, oh man, we're going to go back and forth.
00:07:45
Brett
This isn't about me, my friend. We're not turning this back on me. This is a profile this is a profile in agriculture ah of Ray Tackett.
00:07:51
Plant People
Oh, okay. Not a reflective piece. Yeah.
00:07:54
Brett
Yeah. Maybe if if people like this if people like this style and they want a considerably more boring version, we can do one where I'm the one getting interviewed.
00:07:55
Plant People
Life and time.
00:08:02
Brett
um well so where ah how many How many cows were in that dairy barn?
00:08:02
Plant People
Yeah, you got some great history, too, there, Brett Wolfe.
00:08:10
Plant People
Uh, as far as that one, probably 45, 50 head that time, mama cows and, uh, cow calf pairs, black Angus.
00:08:17
Brett
Okay. look
00:08:17
Plant People
It was a black Angus farm, registered Angus, uh, farm that I grew up on. So yeah, at any one time in that one particular area, probably that many. And it was one of the older barns on the farm, but also one of the cooler ones because it was a kind of an old fashioned barn with these big, um, concrete foundations, had a full loft and I loved to go a climb up in the loft and,
00:08:39
Plant People
When there was hay up in there, I'd always go to that barn and when it was raining and I'd kind of find me a kind of a little spot in the hay and kind of curl up and look out the barn loft opening and just watch the rain.
00:08:52
Plant People
Just watch it come down. But yeah, at any one time in that area, probably about that buy butthham many cattle.
00:08:58
Brett
So this is ah this is a dairy barn that is on your family's farm?
00:08:58
Plant People
Yeah.
00:09:02
Plant People
Yeah, not my family's farm. It's the farm that I grew up on. And and it was actually, um and I didn't know it at the time, it was ah an extension specialist farm. He was a forage specialist, and I didn't know what an extension was at a super early age.
00:09:15
Brett
Hmm.
00:09:16
Plant People
um But I actually grew up on an extension specialist's farm, forage specialist, and learned, you know, on down the road by the by when I got older to appreciate such things that you know he worked through the University of Kentucky and think he was stationed out of our substation in quicksand Kentucky uh Robinson Forest quicksand substation um area
00:09:40
Brett
So was that was that farm and was that farm in what what county was that in? What part of Kentucky?
00:09:46
Plant People
and Johnson County Johnson County yeah in the eastern part of the state yep uh-huh
00:09:49
Brett
Okay. and And you said you you grew up on that farm. So were your your parents were working on that farm too or were...
00:09:56
Plant People
Yeah. Dad, of course, managed the farm there because, ah you know, being an extension person, the person traveled a lot, traveled the state, had statewide responsibilities. So dad had to take care of the farm and we managed all the crops and had the tobacco crop and, you know took care of the cattle. And we would see that person once every couple of months, maybe once every three months. And they would just stop by to see how things were going. And we lived on the farm there and took care of everything. Yeah.
00:10:24
Brett
So that was the the extension specialist person that was kind of that was his own farm.
00:10:28
Plant People
Yes. ah That was one of the farms that, that he owned that was in part of his family's farm, part of it and part of it was kind of pieced together, which is pretty common in that area.
00:10:28
Brett
Okay.
00:10:38
Plant People
ah You kind of combine farms.
00:10:42
Brett
Okay. And so you were, you were going to to public schools there in town.
00:10:43
Plant People
meapo
00:10:46
Brett
Yeah.
00:10:46
Plant People
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Central elementary, just a little um elementary school there, which we didn't have, you know, middle school or anything. You went all the way through eighth grade and then straight into high school, which my son, who's going to be 11 this year, he ah just can't believe that. He's what about middle school? You didn't change? I was like, no, buddy.
00:11:08
Plant People
It was all elementary school then, but very very school you know had great academics and you know just a little school there in Paintsville, Kentucky. yeah
00:11:16
Brett
Yeah, i went I went to Catholic school, but it was all one through, you know, first through eighth grade as well.
00:11:21
Plant People
and Or was it?
00:11:23
Brett
And so when I learned that other people went to middle middle school, I was kind of confused.
00:11:26
Plant People
a I know when I first that first you know started happening and ah people talk about middle school, I was like, do what now? So not everybody goes like K through eighth grade. And i was ah kindergarten was not a thing for me. I started straight into first grade. I mean, I didn't go to kindergarten. It was just ah during that time period in the, I guess that would have been late seventies, early eighties. I mean, first grade kindnego kindergarten was not mandatory and through eighth grade. And then later on through the county school there, Johnson Central.
00:11:57
Brett
your Your kindergarten was a real garden, for kinder.
00:11:59
Plant People
okay Yeah, it was not for me. it was not for me.
00:12:04
Brett
Children's garden, the rough translation of kindergarten.
00:12:05
Plant People
Yes. ah she It was a garden of children, but not this child.
00:12:12
Brett
And so how did you balance or like what was the what was the vibe of balancing helping out on the farm with going to school?
00:12:21
Plant People
Oh man. ah ah You know, I loved working on the farm, but we started working on the farm at a very young age. There was a my older brother, he's one year older and me, and then I had a younger brother. He came along a little bit later.
00:12:32
Plant People
uh but and had one sister and we all pretty much you know when we were there worked on the farm and and here ah everybody is complaining about you know having to go to school and looking forward to summer break and even though I loved being on the farm I was like are you guys insane we get to sit down here and there's some air conditioning in the school I'm like you guys are insane I'm like what are you talking about because as soon as we would get out of school we would you know hit hay fields or the tobacco field and We would work until it had gotten dark. You know, typical farm kid kind of lifestyle where you work early. You know, I'd go out in the winter and feed cattle before I went to school. I'd run up to the dairy barn.
00:13:11
Plant People
If they were housed close to the house, I didn't have to drive or anything and nobody had to drive me I'd run up to the old dairy barn, feed the cows, climb up in the loft, and you're doing all this at 10 or 11 years old and ah starting to do all of this and throwing hay down and then running back down and then catching the school bus. And then soon as we got off the bus, we were back you know at the time chopping out tobacco or ah throwing square bales. We only had square bales on the farm, and I always gave my dad a hard time. He didn't switch to round bells until, you know, two of us brothers, the two oldest brothers went away to college at the same time. Then he got a round beller. I'm like, Oh, that's appropriate.
00:13:49
Plant People
Sure. You could have done this years ago, but he's like, but it was, yes.
00:13:51
Brett
So around baler being something you could move, but with a machine and have fewer of them and where versus having two strong young boys throwing them throwing the square bales.
00:13:58
Plant People
Yeah, Square Bells. Yeah, Square Bells much more labor intensive. It premium product, but yeah, much more labor intensive. And my dad's like, hey, free labor. He had ran the numbers and he knew that he could get more out of Square Bells and he had free labor.
00:14:10
Brett
yeah
00:14:13
Plant People
So ah you economists can appreciate that.
00:14:16
Brett
That's great. Yeah, your dad was just ah just a smart, savvy ah savvy business person.
00:14:17
Plant People
Yeah.
00:14:20
Brett
Yeah.
00:14:20
Plant People
Uh, yes. Uh, yeah. So summer break meant something different for us. We rarely traveled off the farm very far because there was always something to do. And so we had a lot of fun, uh, during, you know summer break with visiting and family and stuff, but, uh, a lot of long days on the farm. And we also had vegetables that we sold there locally.
00:14:39
Plant People
Uh, so there was always work to do. There was always something to do.
Generational Farming Tales
00:14:44
Plant People
And it was a rare afternoon that we just had the afternoon completely off and, My dad, he worked at a local sawmill for many years, of me growing up. Oil fields and a local sawmill is what I remember the best, a sawmill. But when he would get off work, that's when the work work started.
00:15:00
Brett
Hmm.
00:15:01
Plant People
ah we would Because then it would be more structured. Mom would be like, hey, listen, and you guys do this and that. And, you know, don't go too far. Take the dog with you so, you know, you don't get lost in the woods and he'll bring you back.
00:15:13
Plant People
But dad would get there and he goes, okay, here's the 10 things that we have to get done before dark. And so... Away we went. So summer break was a little different for us in that area. Unlike the area of central Kentucky where I'm at now, where it's predominantly, you know, farm kids, a lot of farm kids. That's great.
00:15:31
Plant People
But where ah when I was growing up there in the mountains, we were more in the minority minority as far as, um you know, being a farm family and living that that particular way where there was, ah you know, some other families in the school I went to, but more so not than so.
00:15:48
Brett
Well, how do you, how did that come to pass?
00:15:49
Plant People
Yeah.
00:15:52
Brett
do Do you think that like you, you all were a farm family? Is that, was that that a function of relocation or like, how is it that your, your dad or your mom or even knew how to do this stuff?
00:16:04
Brett
Like, what was that? Where did that come from?
00:16:06
Plant People
ah My father grew up on a commercial farm, a bigger farm that had orchards and vineyards and all sorts of things in a section of john Johnson and Lawrence County. And they had truck routes all over the eastern part of the state and as well as like parts of Ohio and West Virginia.
00:16:23
Plant People
So he grew up in production. So it's just a part of who he was.
00:16:28
Brett
Hmm.
00:16:28
Plant People
So he was going to be involved in farming, even though he had a full-time job, a very physically demanding full-time job outside of the farm always. But he just loved doing it.
00:16:39
Plant People
And, you know, mom grew up more of a assistance farm where they had market gardens, not market gardens, but home gardens and things. But she didn't have the same upbringing as dad did.
00:16:52
Plant People
because he grew up more in production and that's just what he was accustomed to. So I guess that led us down that path.
00:16:59
Brett
So you mentioned, you mentioned that the, you had this farm where your, your dad was managing it. And then you also had family farm. What was the, what was the relationship to the family farm or what was going on there
00:17:07
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:17:11
Plant People
Came after, um came after because, yeah i mean, it'd be hard to do. On my father's side, it was more forested. My mother's side had land that was hilly and so did my father. And they more involved hollows with little patches of sunshine that was appropriate for limited scale production.
00:17:30
Brett
Mm.
00:17:30
Plant People
Very little space for grazing, but lots of timberland. and So lots of land resources, just none of it flat. dad always joked that they had a lot of land.
00:17:38
Brett
Mm. Mm.
00:17:40
Plant People
They had a lot, a lot of flat land. It was just stacked up on top of each other. was like, that's a terrible joke, dad. That was his favorite joke, but, uh, they had, ah lots of property on both sides of my family. Um, but it was just not like tillable, what you consider, you know highly valued agriculture land. Cause it was all hillside for the most part.
00:18:00
Plant People
And it was very remote on both my mother's side and my father's side. And, On my father's side, my goodness, my grandmother, like, you know, she never had electricity. And I remember growing up, going to her house, and it was like going back in time, even, you know, back in the, my earliest memories would have been the late 70s, early 80s.
00:18:21
Plant People
she just would not have electricity didn't trust it so that was just a time capsule and it was an amazing and i really appreciate those experiences now is an amazing experience to go and see and all they ever had was they they had a huge garden on dad's side of the family but um it was all work with mules and mechanical labor the disc the plows the cultivation ah getting firewood everything was done with mules
00:18:45
Brett
wow
00:18:45
Plant People
And it was just, it was a very cool experience on on his side of the family. having And I think it was right at like a little over a mile and there was not a road.
00:18:56
Plant People
My earliest memories, is there was not a road to their homestead where grandmother lived. There was no road. It was a mile into the woods. Now later, they got a very good road there where we could, and I remember it was like a special occasion the very first time.
00:19:09
Plant People
We were able to drive to grandmother's house and it was so different because you could actually drive to the house. My earliest memories is walking through a creek part of the way for this mile because it was not so much brushing things in the creek to to get to grandmother's house. And it was a mile into the woods in Lawrence County, Kentucky in a very remote location.
00:19:28
Brett
Wow. And so with the the the faint that is different from the the family farm or that is the family farm?
00:19:35
Plant People
Yes, ah i I'd say as far as our what I considered our family farm, that would have been on both sides of the family. Yeah, on my mother's side and father's side.
00:19:42
Brett
Okay.
00:19:43
Plant People
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:44
Brett
And that was in that was in Lawrence County?
00:19:46
Plant People
Lawrence County and then on my mother's side in Johnson County. Yeah, yeah.
00:19:50
Brett
Okay. Huh. And so, so was there, you mentioned the garden. Most of your, you know, you talked about like tobacco experience, growing tobacco, growing, obviously that some of the livestock and stuff like that.
00:20:02
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:20:06
Brett
Was that those experiences mostly on the family farm or mostly on the the managed farm?
00:20:13
Plant People
Both. Most of those that I grew up on would have been the farm that dad sort of managed. But now our grandmother had chickens.
00:20:18
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:20:19
Plant People
She had you know, always a couple of cattle and a dairy cow that I would watch her milk. She would go out and milk it, which was pretty cool. I guess she was living that homestead lifestyle truly as just normal lifestyle ah before everybody started doing it.
00:20:31
Brett
Right.
00:20:35
Plant People
ah So it's pretty interesting. Yeah. Yeah. That she had everything. They were pretty self-sufficient. They would go to the store, you know, get a ride to the store, you know, through neighbors or whatnot. I don't know, once every three or four months.
00:20:50
Brett
Yeah.
00:20:50
Plant People
you know, to get supplies.
00:20:50
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:20:51
Plant People
But that was, that was kind of a different experience than the the actual farming side. And I got to see both sides where one was more self-consumption and one was more production. You were producing things to sell and the two things were very different.
00:21:05
Plant People
So I got to
The Role of Family in Farming
00:21:06
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:21:06
Plant People
kind of see both sides of it.
00:21:07
Plant People
And that that's one of the things that made it so cool. I kind of saw that it was different, even though you're raising beef or you're producing milk or, you know, you're growing vegetables, you know, for grandmother, it was canning and putting up the vegetables and preserving whatever products that they had. And for our family, was selling things, you know, on a farm that dad managed.
00:21:28
Brett
but The more the things change, the more they stay the same. i think those are still to the two primary audience. like that's that That represents two primary experiences we hear from our clientele today is that there are some people who really are just interested in doing it for themselves.
00:21:42
Plant People
Yeah.
00:21:46
Brett
This kind this homesteading thing, there's I guess, depending on who you talk to, some romanticization maybe. ah But in other cases, it's just kind of, they that's what they want to do um all the way to, you know, we really want to make this ah an efficient business and and make what we can off of it.
00:22:02
Brett
And so it's just so funny that we think of things as changing so much.
00:22:02
Plant People
Yeah, we work with kind of both sets, yeah.
00:22:06
Brett
And in reality, as some of those core things, they kind of stay the same. So you you mentioned, so we were, there was on the the farm that that your dad was managing.
00:22:18
Brett
what all What all was there as far as crops and livestock and everything else that for for sale?
00:22:22
Plant People
It was a cattle, yeah, cattle tobacco, and then we had like lots of green beans and tomatoes were the two big staple crops. At the time, it was pretty easy to sell to large commercial chains of stores, you know without a lot of...
00:22:37
Plant People
you know a lot of friction between the farmer and the, or a lot of, you know, paperwork or anything. You could just go and take 30 bushels of white half runner beans and just sell them. And then we had a truck route, you know, we would deliver, we knew the people that would typically buy a pretty good quantity of vegetables, either a half a bushel or a bushel.
00:22:54
Plant People
So we'd drive around Paintsville and you would load up the truck. And basically at the end of the day, the goal was to be sold out of whatever you had. So, yeah.
00:23:01
Brett
move Okay, so you just very casually said 30 bushels of beans.
00:23:07
Plant People
who h
00:23:09
Brett
How many people are picking that?
00:23:12
Plant People
Just our family.
00:23:13
Brett
So just...
00:23:13
Plant People
My mom was a very fast green bean picker, but yeah, that was just primarily on the vegetable side. That was just four kids and my mother and father, every now and again an uncle or two. But that was all just us, you know, getting out there and kind of picking through rows of green beans and and taking them to market for the most part.
00:23:32
Brett
i't I'm not sure if people out there in the world you know have picked beans before, but for for that size crew, 30 bushels, I mean, that's no joke. Yeah. Beans that's not not that's no joke
00:23:45
Plant People
Yeah, it it definitely took some doing. I had a real aversion for green beans for many years. I never wanted to see another green bean again. i've learned to love them again.
00:23:54
Brett
yeah
00:23:56
Plant People
But at the time, ah yeah, it was it was a chore to try to eat green beans.
00:24:00
Brett
beans So beans and tomatoes were the main, kind of the main horticultural staples.
00:24:05
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Yeah, the the volume things we could sell in a reasonable volume that everybody wanted and needed.
00:24:07
Brett
that
00:24:12
Plant People
And it seems like we didn't have a tremendous amount of people growing those locally in that particular area at that particular time. So I'm sure that's why my dad made made the decision to stick with the big safe things that he can move, you know.
00:24:25
Plant People
and volume I mean, um he never took a chance on things like eggplant probably because it wasn't a volume sort of thing because at the same time, the vegetables were coming off, you know, they you were tending tobacco and there was hay.
00:24:30
Brett
Right.
00:24:38
Plant People
You know, we put up a lot of hay both for sale and for use on the farm. And then you're taking care of the cattle. So you had all these things going on with almost ah or very little outside labor, very little. was just our family was the labor along with a couple of uncles that would help out every now and again housing to tobacco.
Tobacco's Legacy in Kentucky
00:24:55
Brett
Yeah, I mean, what's your what you're painting to me is like the prototypical probably 1930 1990, 95 family farm in Kentucky. Mm-hmm. thirty to nineteen ninety ninety five family farm in kentucky
00:25:10
Plant People
Yeah, that's that's pretty much my experience because that was about the time period. ah Went to college in Berea College for my undergrad. My brother and I did, older brother. At the same time, we went in 92. So yeah.
00:25:24
Plant People
so yeah It's all the way through, you know, the 80s into the beginning of the 90s when we graduated high school there.
00:25:25
Brett
Yeah.
00:25:32
Plant People
And then the next year, my brother waited out a year, but we both went to college at the same time. He was one year ahead of me in 92. So that, yeah, that was that was it. And we didn't use I didn't grow up with a lot of outside labor as all family labor one in one form or another.
00:25:47
Brett
Yeah.
00:25:49
Brett
What's your, so, you know, for many people are kind of familiar with the idea that this, this period, particularly this, the latter half of that window I just talked about was defined by Kentucky in Kentucky agriculture, defined in part by the relationship to tobacco and its role on the family farm and the way that it shifted and stuff.
00:26:05
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:26:08
Brett
What was your, what were your memories about tobacco? How, I guess, starting with how much, how much tobacco were you all growing And what are the things that you associate with that or that you most remember from that period and that work in particular?
00:26:23
Plant People
I come to appreciate, I don't know how many acres at our peak. I mean, we couldn't have been, uh, very many by today's scale because you have fewer producers now, many more or many less producers, but they're all much bigger.
00:26:37
Plant People
Um, because of our labor, you know, we can only grow what we could harvest. It was several acres. But the thing I remember most about tobacco is that dad would always say, well, that's what pays the bills.
00:26:43
Brett
Yeah.
00:26:49
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:26:49
Plant People
You know, cattle, when they did good, it was really good.
00:26:49
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:26:52
Plant People
But when they were not good, I mean, cattle cattle marketing followed kind of a cycle, even in registered herds, especially in commercial herds. ah But tobacco was um was a very consistently profitable crop year in and year out in Kentucky.
00:27:08
Plant People
And gosh, I remember, Brett, late 80s, tobacco was bringing the same price per pound as it did was 25 years later. Of course, you had the fertilizer prices and input prices be much cheaper then.
00:27:21
Plant People
And so you can kind of do the math there quickly in your head that if you're getting the same price 30 years ago, that you were way more profitable. I mean, it was very profitable for small farms to have even small acreages of tobacco at $1.92 a buck ninety two ten pound or some years over $2 a pound 30 years ago. I mean, that was really, that was doing well.
00:27:42
Brett
Hmm. This is ah it's a little bit of ah of a delicate question, I guess. Not, I mean, not really. it could be for so for some. that Was there a discussion of these people are talking about the health risks of smoking.
00:27:57
Brett
They're talking about, you know, that that this might go away. Was there any anticipation of that or or when that might have started?
00:28:01
Plant People
No. You know, and and I thought a lot about that, but while we were producing it, it never entered our minds. It was just, once again, the fish swimming in the water, in the water you don't think about.
00:28:12
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:28:14
Plant People
It's just, and it was not uncommon for a lot of people that most of my family smoked. ah us None of us kids ever did. I don't know why, but we didn't in our family. But mom and dad both smoked. All the uncles smoked. And when I'd go to high school, there was a huge smoking area that most of the high school kids smoked.
00:28:31
Plant People
um, uh, smoked a lot. So no, that, that came about later on when, um you know, I, I guess at some point that all changed, but no, we didn't ever, we never saw the end. And, and, you know, fortunately we were not around for that as far as producing, we didn't have to go through that transition and period of uncertainty when all that started happening. um when the program changed in Kentucky,
00:29:00
Plant People
that was after we were off the farm.
00:29:03
Brett
Yeah.
00:29:03
Plant People
Yeah.
00:29:04
Brett
You mentioned your early nineties, you're going away to school and that, that was kind of that mid to late nineties that that big shift happened.
00:29:06
Plant People
Yeah.
00:29:10
Brett
and
00:29:10
Plant People
Yeah. Late nineties. Yeah. That all started really changing and, you know, we started understanding the health effects of all those things. And, and I was watching an apple shop, goodness, an apple shop. It's, um,
00:29:25
Plant People
organization here in Kentucky does a lot of historical, has a lot of historical video footage and, and they had some of those, ah you know, specials on, you know, considering that all the way back 40, 50 years ago.
00:29:37
Brett
Sure.
00:29:37
Plant People
And it was really interesting about, you know, the production versus, you know, the health ramifications and all this, that, and other, but by and large, we were just, you know, producing it. It was a stable crop. ah It's kind of how my dad looked at it that, you know, and if,
00:29:53
Plant People
That would have been another crop like corn. He would have done that if he could have made the same amount of money.
00:29:56
Brett
sure
00:29:57
Plant People
He would have grown whatever. But that our primary consideration in that part of the state was what can we do on essentially was a small scale. Total size of the farm four or five hundred acres, a lot of that being woodland.
00:30:11
Plant People
with, ah you know, ah a fair amount of hay ground and and river bottoms and things. But um well what can you essentially do on smaller acres that was appropriate that, you know, we talked about scale in a former episode and it was all about scale.
00:30:24
Brett
Right.
00:30:26
Plant People
What could you produce like vegetables? And we could do vegetables um fairly well because it was all family labor. We didn't have much labor cost and we could do tobacco because it was very consistent.
00:30:33
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:30:37
Plant People
And there was a program in place to control price for the most part.
00:30:40
Brett
right
00:30:41
Plant People
There's a, the tobacco program was in place at that time. ah So yeah, it was a different when we were there. And I come to appreciate that when I would go to my Aggie gone courses at Berea and we talked a lot about scale and what you can do and a thousand acres in one place is not the same.
00:31:00
Plant People
as a thousand acres in another place, depending on the enterprise.
00:31:06
Brett
Yeah, I think, you know, talk about a a structural level ah conflicted feelings, you know, feel or feeling conflicted that that this was this essential crop to the economy of Kentucky.
00:31:20
Brett
And not only to the economy of Kentucky, but specifically to the small farms of Kentucky. And then there's this emergent, you know, oh, turns out here's all these problems associated with it.
00:31:26
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:31:32
Brett
And um not to mention the fact that there's a ah climactic advantage to growing it here. So it would sort of be like saying, going to the south of France and saying, you yeah, I know it's perfect to grow wine here or grapes here for wine, but you got to shut it down because of this, you know, this thing.
00:31:52
Brett
And so it's just such a fascinating transitional period. And i think, you know, we we're talking about, you you and I have been talking a little bit about how to maybe explore that with some of the people who were there um and talk through that. And i'm I'm hoping that that ends up panning out. If that's something you'll will be interested in hearing, drop ah drop a comment and let us know, or an email letting us know that you might, that tobacco transition period is in a separate context.
00:32:18
Brett
Maybe maybe we'll we'll get
Berea College Experience
00:32:20
Brett
into that a little bit. So, So you through the, into the nineties, you decided you were going to go or late eighties into the nineties, you decided you're going to go to college and you went, you went to Berea college.
00:32:30
Plant People
Sure. Mm-hmm.
00:32:33
Brett
um Some people will have heard of Berea. It definitely has a worldwide reputation and and people know about it, but like what, what's unique about it? Why did you choose it?
00:32:44
Brett
um And did it have anything? Was there any carryover with your agricultural upbringing there?
00:32:50
Plant People
Sure. You know, you don't think about it like a lot of kids that may or may not have grown up on farms, but we grew up on a farm and I was like, man, the last thing I want to do is, you know, I'm going to go to college and get away from that. But to what you don't realize is that it comes full circle in a lot of cases.
00:33:07
Plant People
ah When I first went to Berea, I was very interested in biology. I was ah determined I was going to be a biology major. I was very interested in systems and ecology, environmental systems. So I really wanted to focus on that.
00:33:18
Plant People
But what that turned into later on was a degree in and plant, a split degree in plant and animal sciences at Berea, almost 50-50, a little bit heavier in the horticultural side, the plant side, because that's where my, you know, interest kind of were at.
00:33:35
Plant People
But when I went to Berea, you know, i one thing led to another. From a bio major, I went over to agriculture um because I think you could do more with that degree without a Ph.D. in some cases.
00:33:50
Plant People
And it seemed to be more practical. And I would like to think of myself as a very practical person. But when I went through Berea and ended up working on the the farm there at Berea a couple summers full time ah because I enjoyed it.
00:34:03
Plant People
i learned that once I was off the farm for a couple of years, I sort of missed it, which really surprised me. I was like, what am I doing? You know, I said I wasn't, I was done with all of that. And here I came right back to it.
00:34:15
Plant People
ah And in my career, uh,
00:34:18
Brett
if you had to describe If you had to describe what you think it is that you missed about it, what what was it, do you think?
00:34:27
Plant People
Probably just the connectivity to the land and growing things and producing things and seeing the cycle of growing things.
00:34:30
Brett
Hmm.
00:34:34
Plant People
And that's, I guess that's why I'm on the plant side more so is that, you know, here in Kentucky, there's a, you know, spring and summer and fall and winter season for plant production. And it's very cyclical.
00:34:45
Brett
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:34:45
Plant People
And I enjoyed that and I enjoyed the connectivity of growing things and the way it connected you to the connected you to the land. I still very interested, and you know, in some of the work I've done in the state for many years was more in forestry forest stra environmental systems. um Very interested in that, too. But I think that's what brought me back to it. I mean, i loved her I always took for granted when I was younger that Just every family works side by side for 14 hours a day. i was there beside my brothers and sisters and boy, we fought sometimes my brothers and I, especially, and our sister would keep us in line, but I just took for granted that everybody was with their family 24 hours a day.
00:35:23
Plant People
and But I quickly learned that wasn't the case that, and I think that attracted me back, you know, back around to that as far as my enjoyment, bringing me back to that, you know, really thinking about it once I was off the farm.
00:35:37
Plant People
Yeah.
00:35:38
Brett
And and bereas Berea College, is it sort of has ah central to it is, I guess, something we would call work study or something similar.
00:35:46
Plant People
Yes.
00:35:47
Brett
But there's there's a general, what I mean, what would you describe as kind of the ethos of Berea College or the reason for its existence or or what?
00:35:47
Plant People
Yeah.
00:35:54
Plant People
learn Learn by doing, I would say. And, you know, yeah as ah when I switched over to ag, that was never more true because I worked full-time on the college farm in areas that I hadn't worked on before, even though I grew up on a farm and swine operations and things like that and plant propagation.
00:35:57
Brett
Hmm.
00:36:10
Plant People
I got to, you know, even at a feed mill, I learned to run a feed mill on my own. I mean, some really great experiences working there and having lots of response. essentially a a lot of responsibilities in the summertime when the full-time workers were not necessarily there.
00:36:26
Brett
Yeah.
00:36:26
Plant People
It was college labor for the most part.
00:36:26
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:36:27
Plant People
But yeah, Berea is work-study college. It's a learn-by-doing. It's not the only one. There's several in the United States. But i really, and that's one of the things that attracted me to Berea was its smaller size and the fact that there was, I think they call it, ah you know, placing value and dignity on, you know, labor.
00:36:47
Plant People
And that was one of their tenets of Berea College that I think is very applicable even today.
00:36:47
Brett
yeah
00:36:54
Plant People
But I enjoyed that because I was a very hands-on, tactile sort of person. And that made sense to me. And I remember I would probably cringe now, and I wish I'd have saved it. But I'm pretty sure when they were asking about Berea and your skills and talents, I think I put fencing, barbed wire fencing on part of that.
00:37:13
Brett
Oh, no.
00:37:13
Plant People
And there's not too many colleges now that would impress. But at Berea, I remember the admissions officers there pulled that and he cited that and he said, you know, this is what we're looking for. And I was like, what?
00:37:26
Plant People
But he was more talking about the work ethic than the specific skill.
00:37:29
Brett
I see. i thought you were I thought it was setting up for a horror story of you having to go out and and run fences for...
00:37:33
Plant People
ah No. and No, no, no. I did a lot of different labor jobs at Berea, but they were they wanted to know things like that because ah the admissions, it was kind of tough. you know ah It was a very selective process at the time. I don't know how that flows now, but it was really unusual for my brother and I both to have gotten into Berea. but Yeah, I remember I'd probably cringe now if I read that on some of my skills that made me appropriate for Berea.
00:37:59
Plant People
ah I mean, fencing, who would have thought that running fences you would put on a college application, but they wanted to know more like work ethic and, you know, like I said, the dignity of labor. And so I just put it all out there and it was handwritten at the time, of course, you know, and being in the early nineties, it was not typed out on a computer and that was my application to Berea College. So
00:38:20
Brett
I think they they have the seem to have the experience so that a lot of ah lot of people have had since that I know, which is They wanted the authentic Ray Tackett, and that was what they got was, I can do some fencing, you know.
00:38:32
Brett
and i
00:38:32
Plant People
Yeah, I can do some stuff on the farm. Hey, if you need me to be farm labor, I can do that.
00:38:35
Brett
That's awesome.
00:38:37
Plant People
But I did a lot of things besides farm labor there.
00:38:39
Brett
Sure.
00:38:40
Plant People
Worked in woodcraft and worked as a, you know, a janitor in dorms, which, i you know, I enjoy that too. But um all labor positions, there's so many different labor positions there at the college. So they still have a very similar program as when I went through all those years ago.
00:38:55
Plant People
And that jived really well with me being a farm kid. that I felt right at home from day one there in the program.
00:39:02
Brett
Were you the first ah the first, you and your brother, the first people in your family to go to college?
00:39:05
Plant People
e
00:39:07
Plant People
Yes. Yes. We were the very first ones. We were first years.
00:39:11
Brett
what do you What was it that that drove that decision, do you think?
00:39:15
Plant People
Uh, we, uh, for whatever reason, you know, we, um, ah We're in lots of academic programs, extracurricular academic programs at school and academic team sort of things.
00:39:28
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:39:28
Plant People
ah We had like strong youth group leaders, you know, growing up that really encouraged us to make that a consideration is, you know, uh, make that a consideration for going forward in life, that your education is important.
00:39:42
Plant People
You need to take it serious. And that was from about eighth grade, freshman year in high school. We had these church youth group leaders that really kind of instilled that on us and they were educators themselves.
00:39:52
Plant People
And that probably had a big impact on us ah with the way that we focused on, you know, we were aware of academics and it it being important um for us to make that consideration, you know, and,
00:40:01
Brett
if
00:40:06
Plant People
And even ah later on, i had a third brother that that went and graduated from Berea and Ag and Natural Resources. He did not go into agriculture. He went into hotel management, which was a little bit different. But yeah, there was three of us ah from my family that went through the same program there.
00:40:22
Brett
So what I heard was we were too nerdy not to go to college. Yeah.
00:40:26
Plant People
yeah Exactly. I mean, it's like there's no spot for us. We are like these nature nerds that, you know, like books as well.
00:40:33
Brett
Yeah. You like, you like the academic thing in the, in the, it's a, again, and another, just not necessarily, you know, every story is different, but I think there's a lot of folks, um, in your, your, to my age range who had that experience of having that opportunity even open to them for the first time and, and taking it and and seeing what it, what it led to.
00:40:33
Plant People
But yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:40:50
Plant People
Yeah.
00:40:54
Brett
um
00:40:54
Plant People
It was sort of novel and different. Yeah. I mean, it was like a grand adventure.
00:40:58
Brett
yeah.
00:40:58
Plant People
Yeah.
00:40:58
Brett
Were you, were you all scared?
00:41:01
Plant People
Oh yeah. I mean, it wasn't very far away from home now that I reflect on it, but I ask a lot of questions. I remember that when the admission officer, they used to have admissions officers. and I think they're going back to this model that would come around and talk to prospective students and identify. And they really interviewed you.
00:41:17
Plant People
months before the application even and talked to us. And I had really practical questions like, how am I going to get my laundry done if I go to this place? Like I wanted to know real world because I was super nervous.
00:41:28
Plant People
that There was no one in my family I could talk to that had had that experience. So I was like, I mean, how do you accomplish?
00:41:32
Brett
Mm-mm.
00:41:34
Plant People
How do you get food, you know, food and shelter? And so I had all these basic questions that was really new to me. Now that I look back, it was really basic But yeah, it was a frightening experience at first, but that went away in about two or three weeks. I was like, oh, you know, we're taken care of. We're in this environment where they have smart people have planned all of this stuff out. And, you know, here's how you accomplish your daily routine and, you know, get the job done. so
00:42:03
Brett
What was that conversation about going away to college like with your your parents and the family farm?
00:42:11
Plant People
There was really no pressure one week.
00:42:13
Brett
Or not the family farm, but any any of the farm work.
00:42:14
Plant People
Yeah, the farm. I mean, there was really no pressure one way or another. ah They were very neutral on that. And, you know, my dad, who was great. and dad and mom, and they were both like, you know, you guys have to follow what you really feel passionate about.
00:42:30
Plant People
Either way, they wanted to let us know formal education or not. They said, you know, you need to make the considerations, you weigh the pros and the cons and do what you feel passionate about.
00:42:43
Plant People
Because if you're, you know, they they instilled ah us at an early age, if you're passionate about getting a higher education, then go for it. you know, definitely go with that. Nobody's ever had the opportunity.
00:42:55
Plant People
You guys seem to have the ability. You're a bunch of nerds, uh, you know, go for it. You're, you know, dad's like always, he used to tell us, keep your hands in the dirt, but your head in the clouds, um,
Career in Agriculture and Extension Service
00:43:07
Plant People
kind of thing. And I, and I remember that he said, you can do this if you want to do it.
00:43:12
Plant People
So, yeah.
00:43:14
Brett
That's pretty, yeah, that's, yeah. I don't want to just gloss over that kind of, that's really powerful. Um, So i'm I'm looking at the time here and realizing this is definitely going to have to have a part two.
00:43:28
Brett
ah And we will we'll be sure to do that. But you so you you go through Berea, you learn these new things, you have these new life experiences for I assume four years go by ah quickly in the blink of an eye, maybe.
00:43:43
Plant People
Yeah.
00:43:45
Plant People
They do blink. Yeah. yeah
00:43:48
Brett
So now what does what does newly minted college graduate Ray Tackett look out to the world and see and and think about doing?
00:43:57
Plant People
Well, I mean, ah first of all, that's a real shocker. You know, ah you start to make plans your senior year, about a month left, you're like, holy cow, it's getting, it is getting real. Well, I had put in an application to Extension and I mean, that was because Extension had representatives that come around to colleges and recruit for Extension and I didn't think a lot about it. I made a basic application and forgot about it.
00:44:23
Plant People
It was months later that i that I heard back from that. But I immediately after college started working at a local landscape company, very active, bigger landscape company in Madison County, and worked my way up to sort of a management position where I was managing crews and very good work. I learned a ton on ah in a short amount of time.
00:44:45
Plant People
on ah you know things like mowing crews and managing crews and also landscape installation on a commercial level and learned to bid jobs and and really loved my experience there. But months and months later into the winter, I heard back from you know this person ah at the university that said, hey, we got your application. out and And at first I said, what are you talking about?
00:45:08
Plant People
And because I'd forgotten all about it being a young person because you know six, 10 months is like forever. But I guess at the time, and I didn't know it, you know, Extension in Kentucky had been on a sort of a hiring freeze for a period of time. And then all of a sudden the floodgates opened. They were hiring all of these people and I got a call.
00:45:27
Plant People
And that's, ah you know, I came in for an interview and one thing led to another and got a position with a cooperative extension service here in Kentucky. So that's sort of how I got into Extension.
00:45:36
Brett
And what was that? Was that an agent position?
00:45:39
Plant People
An agent's position, I was really interested, and at the time they really didn't differentiate between horticulture agents and ag agents because there was no such thing as horde agents. There might have been two in the state, and those were special sort of agent positions in urban areas. Yeah.
00:45:54
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:45:55
Plant People
ah So that not being a thing at the time um and me having an animal and plant science, kind of a split degree from Berea, you know, they they loved that sort of degree because, you know, we have to cover both of those things as an Ag and Natural Resources agent in Kentucky.
00:46:10
Plant People
So that gave me real advantage and I was able to get Ag and Natural Resources agent position in Grant County, Kentucky, the northern part of the state.
00:46:17
Brett
Okay.
00:46:18
Plant People
That was my best.
00:46:18
Brett
that's where That's where Alexis comes from, right?
00:46:20
Plant People
Yeah, yeah.
00:46:21
Brett
Yeah.
00:46:21
Plant People
Coincidentally, yeah. So I'm going to have to go up there and like kick around our family's you know closet, the skeletons or something. But it is a small world. And it's so ah interesting that years apart, my wife went through there as well and became an agent like my Jennifer.
00:46:36
Brett
Oh, man. Okay.
00:46:38
Plant People
yeah So small world. lot of people apparently filter through.
00:46:39
Brett
It's like great Grant County is the place where you have to go. I haven't yet had my, my life exp, you know, my key life moment in Grant County yet.
00:46:47
Plant People
What's it called?
00:46:47
Brett
It's like the,
00:46:47
Plant People
is it ah What's on the water tower? Gateway to the Bluegrass? Maybe it's just a gateway in general.
00:46:52
Brett
yeah, maybe so.
00:46:52
Plant People
Maybe it's a filter. Yeah.
00:46:54
Brett
I need to go, I need to go up there and and consult the Oracle or whatever it is you, the rest of you all have done up there.
00:46:58
Plant People
I don't know.
00:46:58
Brett
And
00:46:58
Plant People
Maybe it's Eagle Creek. I don't know. But that that was my first agent's position. I spent about four years there and really enjoyed my time there.
00:47:06
Brett
and that would have been 96.
00:47:06
Plant People
Worked lot of good people. Yeah, 96 through 2000.
00:47:09
Brett
Through 2000, which is again, that period of crazy change in Kentucky agriculture.
00:47:09
Plant People
Yeah. yeah
00:47:14
Plant People
Radical change and a lot of unknowns, a lot of questions.
Looking Forward: Part Two Teaser
00:47:19
Plant People
ah When the tobacco program was ending, that was you know the state's most stable, one of the most profitable, consistently profitable crops that was tied into the heritage and identity of the state, you know just to put it in short.
00:47:33
Plant People
And to say that that was a sea change is kind of underselling it. I mean, that was the the the ocean shifting completely under your feet ah kind of moment.
00:47:37
Brett
Yeah.
00:47:44
Plant People
And a lot was changing at that time. And boy, um when I first came into Extension, you know, you had these big tobacco meetings and things, and these meetings were huge. Usually your biggest meeting of the year, as far as having producers in one room, you would have, you know, all the to different tobacco specialists. And there was a lot of them at that time. You would have these big meetings and sponsored type meetings. Um,
00:48:08
Plant People
And all of that was you know started changing slowly over the years where you know it started to shift away, but it did take years to shift away from that sort of paradigm.
00:48:19
Brett
think Well, I think we'll leave the the people on a cliffhanger there with the the next chapter of your career in extension and seeing that agricultural thing, that agricultural landscape shift.
00:48:31
Brett
um And so again, i fully, will we will be doing a part two because I want to hear the second half of this story. If you've enjoyed this, please leave us a comment down below.
00:48:42
Brett
um You can follow us on Instagram. It's Hort Culture Podcast. I do have one more question for you, Ray, so don't don't fall asleep just yet.
00:48:48
Plant People
Oh man, I was getting ready to clock out.
00:48:50
Brett
um You can follow us on Instagram. That's Hort Culture Podcast. You can also email us at the email address in the show notes if you want to get in contact with us and let us know that you like this episode or you're looking for something different.
00:49:03
Brett
um But my, I guess my last question for you, Ray, is we've, we've reflected on this basically first, you know, quarter, hopefully, you know, of your life. um And thought about the idea of growing up, working side by side with your family, you know, 14 hours a day, being around your family all that time, ah being a farm kid and, and,
00:49:23
Plant People
Yeah. It's lot of time.
00:49:28
Brett
summer vacation, not meaning I could hang out on the couch all all summer and do nothing. um You thinking about even the concept of of growing stuff you mentioned in a previous episode about the ah the tobacco swag that your dad gave you a little small plot that you could kind of take care of and sell and thinking about that, you have business. And and if you had to think about some of the key ways that that way of of coming up or that way of living have um impacted your life or some of the key lessons from that period. And in a general sense that as you've had your own children and and got married and had your own children and taught lots of new people, new things and done worked in careers in a different, you know, different spaces, different counties, et cetera.
00:50:14
Brett
Are there any particular things that you look back and you're like, I'm really grateful for those things that I learned from growing up the way I did?
00:50:22
Plant People
Probably more than anything at an early age, you know, you learn really quickly and, you know, through my father and he was really good about balancing this and mother, ah you know, they work side by side in the fields.
00:50:33
Plant People
But, you know, dad's like one of the first things you have to sort out in this farming thing, ah this production thing, you said some things are in your control and some things are out of your control and you have to know the difference.
00:50:43
Brett
Mm.
00:50:45
Plant People
So, ah you know, talking about like the weather, you know, you're, you have these crops on the outside and there's, you can plan for every contingency and, you know, that one spring you're going to have a flood during calving season, or it's going to be super dry right as the tobacco is in, you know, mid season and it ah put on the poundage that you need.
00:51:06
Plant People
And, you know, he said, control the things you can control and accept the rest. So, yeah, that's that's ah that's an early lesson with farming.
00:51:15
Brett
Yeah.
00:51:15
Plant People
you know ah Learn that real early. And that's a tough one. And it's tough to tough to accept that every single year that things don't go according to plan. It is. So that's one of the early ones, man.
00:51:27
Brett
Yeah.
00:51:27
Plant People
Some things, you I mean, you just plan and try to do manage the risk the best you can.
00:51:27
Brett
that
00:51:33
Plant People
But that's not saying that you're going to ever control all the variables. Not in farming.
00:51:37
Brett
Yeah. No, not in anything. And I think, um, that the hence the carry over and hence the fact that that's,
00:51:39
Plant People
No, no.
00:51:43
Brett
That's kind of a precept of ah many different world philosophies and religions. you know It feels like like a very Zen concept, a Zen Buddhist concept.
00:51:53
Brett
It feels like the prayer of St. Francis, the serenity to accept the things I can't change and courage to change the things I can and wisdom to know the difference.
00:51:56
Plant People
Yes.
00:52:02
Plant People
That's the one.
00:52:03
Brett
It feels, it feels ah yeah, really like, again, another another powerful, in addition to keeping your your hands in the ground and your head in the clouds, which is a very beautiful image and I think describes.
00:52:14
Brett
the way that you've, the way that i've I've seen you live your life, man, this was so enjoyable. I really, really appreciate you sharing all this stuff about your experience. And I know our audience is going to really enjoy it too, but I'm looking forward to doing part two where we, we talk about the, the great agricultural transition of, of late nineties, early two thousands.
00:52:35
Brett
And also your, yeah,
00:52:35
Plant People
We may still be in that transition. I'm not for sure if fit if we if it ever ended, it was that powerful people. And that was late 90s. That was the That's the young people would say back in the 1900s.
00:52:46
Brett
yeah it was the nineteen Yeah, that was back in the 1900s, kids.
00:52:50
Plant People
And we still, I think, are going through a bit of transition. But that's a a story for another day.
00:52:55
Brett
Yeah, well, we'll look forward to that. And thank you all again for listening, getting contact with us. Let us know what you like. Please rate the episodes and we'll see you next time.