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Jill - Music Teacher
67 Plays1 year ago
On this episode of The Jobs Podcast, we speak with Jill, who has been teaching music for 26 years. Jill talks about her upbringing in a musical home, her desire to play and perform music at an early age. She dives into her education, both before becoming a teacher, and then advanced education after she was already teaching. We speak about starting pay for a music teacher, the pros and cons of her career, the joy in teaching students, the impact music can have on a childs life and so much more. If you have any interest in being a music teacher, or a teacher on any subject, this is the interview for you!
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Music by: SnoozyBeats - Song Title - "Keep It Calm". Please check out SnoozyBeats on PixaBay for a ton of awesome content! - LINK
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:11
Speaker
Hey folks, you're listening to the jobs podcast. I am your host, Tim Hendricks. Your time is valuable. I'm not going to waste it. Let's get right to the interview. Hey Jill, how are you today? I'm good. How are you? I'm doing good. Thanks. Thanks for joining me on the jobs podcast. Let's go ahead
Jill's Early Life and Musical Beginnings
00:00:29
Speaker
and get started. Give us a little bit of history on Jill, where she was born, where she grew up, siblings, family members, childhood, all that good stuff.
00:00:38
Speaker
Yeah, so I was born in Oklahoma and kind of moved around a little bit throughout my life due to my father's being, was a pastor. And so Midwest was home, but we lived a big chunk in California and i grew up just kind of being the youngest of two, my older brother, and loving life. And I was a pretty happy kid and loved to do things all over the place from playing outside to singing to crafting and just kind of being a happy go lucky youngest child. Yeah. Now you're a you're a music teacher by trade, correct? I am. Uh huh. Okay. When you were younger, were you playing instruments or singing in the church choir or when did your sort of your musical journey start and how did it start?
00:01:33
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I always remember liking music. I started singing at a very young age. um My parents have always told me that I was always singing as a toddler. I started piano lessons when I was five.
00:01:49
Speaker
and was singing in church and then continued to love singing and love playing instruments. When I got into fourth grade, I started playing the saxophone and just kind of continued on my journey in growing in piano, sax, and voice. um Voice was always my first love, but I went into middle school and and high school and college and kind of stayed in the band and choir track all the way through. um Did choir at church and did some travel groups and that kind of thing. Just a lot of different styles but i just always really enjoyed music and really enjoyed being a part of it and what it did for me as a person.
00:02:36
Speaker
Did you ever get to travel anywhere unique? You said you traveled with with your choir. I don't know if that was high school or college, but or both. Did you travel anywhere unique? My first travel experience that was pretty large was actually between eighth grade and ninth grade. When we lived in Oregon, there was a community choir that my middle school choir director had put together.
00:03:02
Speaker
And we um kind of did stuff all throughout the area. And then our choir ended up going to Japan that summer. And we went to ah Osaka Sayama, which is kind of a suburb of Osaka. And we spent almost two weeks over there. And we did this music festival, but we did a whole bunch of other things at schools and stuff in Japan.
Path to Music Education
00:03:25
Speaker
and I mean it was my first time being out of the united states north america area so it was a pretty big deal as a thirteen-year-old to travel halfway across the world and i'm definitely an experience that i will never forget that was my first and then i did do quite a bit of traveling in high school and college as well to
00:03:47
Speaker
different places, but that was by far, you know, one of the most unique and definitely the first experience that I had that I enjoyed and kind of continued my love of singing.
00:03:58
Speaker
so So music's been a part of your life since an early age. When, I'm assuming it was in college, when did it shift gears to where I enjoy music so much? I like instruments, I like singing, I like everything about music. I think I want to teach music. When, how did that trends, that change happen where you're just going from doing it to teaching it?
00:04:23
Speaker
So that's kind of funny. I actually always said that I would never be a music teacher. a My choir director and band director were some of my big mentors in high school and then of course college. And they would always encourage me to look at it. I knew I wanted to do something with music because it was what I love to do.
00:04:45
Speaker
But I just never saw myself as a teacher and then I kind of started just a little bit on the side during high school teaching some private lessons and I enjoyed it. But again, I just never saw myself jumping into becoming a full time music teacher.
00:05:02
Speaker
I wanted to perform. That was, I mean, that's always been one of my biggest loves. ah And then when I started looking at college and looking at the different tracks, I kind of based on the recommendation of my mentor from college, I chose the education track because it gave me a backup plan. and Okay.
00:05:28
Speaker
but never really probably until about halfway through college did I really see myself becoming a music educator and that was just through a process of the classes and then of course other people in college and then my Metro professor Dan Nelson who made a big impact in my life just kind of encouraging me in a lot of that I saw the potential that that I could make on other people's lives and music by becoming an educator and ultimately it boiled down to I wanted to share my love and passion for music with others and if I could influence others to make a career in music in any form or even just have a love of music then that was worth it to me. So that's kind of where it began was in college that I really saw myself becoming an educator.
00:06:21
Speaker
Do most of the, folk I'm sure you know other teachers and and then other music teachers as well, do most music teachers play multiple instruments or do you have those unicorns where I can't play any instrument? I may do Twinkle Twinkle Little Star on the piano, but I like to listen to music and you know, you obviously have to be able to read sheet music and that's probably part of your training, I assume.
00:06:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think it depends on which level you plan to teach. So when I first started, I wanted to do middle school, high school, or college. Never saw myself in elementary.
00:07:01
Speaker
And my first job, I was hired halfway through the school year and started at a private ah school in Idaho teaching choir and band, which I loved. So I was doing middle and high school because I have an equal love for the two.
00:07:20
Speaker
And then when we moved back to California, I was in a middle school and upper elementary position that I did for 11 straight years as an itinerant teacher kind of going from 11 different campuses throughout the week. So um All of that to say, I think it goes back to because I did both instrumental and vocal, I have a little bit of more to offer, not to say that that's better than the other, but
00:07:53
Speaker
It's proven to come in handy that I can do both, but I don't think you need to, per se, choose one or the other. you can You can do any of it, but typically most people who become music educators do choose one track and they stay on that track. I have not, and that's been a plus and a minus to me in certain places, but um it's also been a unique thing that has come in handy in others. so I can see it being handy because a lot of times singers will work with
Teaching Young Students and Impact
00:08:24
Speaker
musicians. And if you know kind of what they're both supposed to do, you can help marry those two a little bit better. Right. And you know, that's where it's definitely been a plus. And
00:08:35
Speaker
Also, being a strong conductor has, because I was a drum major in high school, um been conducting for a long time, that's come in handy as well in some of my mixed ensembles and groups and theater productions type things. So it's definitely been ah maybe wider.
00:08:55
Speaker
career in types of music education that I've done versus the typical music educator might stick to one path the entire time. So I've taught everything from kinder through 12th grade and even done a little bit in college level stuff. So it's a pretty wide variety of different activities and styles and instruments and singing.
00:09:19
Speaker
Do you have one preference over the other, the instrument side, the music side versus the the vocal side? Do you do you and enjoy them both equally or if you had your druthers, you would be able to focus on one?
00:09:33
Speaker
I genuinely enjoy both equally. I mean, I would never be an orchestra director. That's definitely not my forte. But i I probably, if I had to choose, I would choose... i I would do band at any level. I love conducting just as much as, you know, playing. But singing, I definitely prefer... making music with all styles and ages. But there's, you know, benefits to the older kids versus the younger. um So when we moved to Texas eight years ago, I left Midland High School and I've been in elementary for eight years.
00:10:13
Speaker
And it's been a big change and some days I really enjoy it. Other days I don't, but what I do enjoy is I'm making a pretty big impact on these kids at a young age that they're developing a love for music. It's maybe not to the level of making music with older students that, you know, you can, but I know the impact is just as great. It's just different.
00:10:43
Speaker
When you, to jump back to your education for just a second, when you're going through, let's say you're halfway through your college career and you've decided I'm going to be a music teacher, you're obviously already involved in some sort of a music class or a choir or something along those lines.
00:11:01
Speaker
Do you take the same types of classes that a teacher or is there a base like I'm going to be a history teacher? So obviously I need to study history, but there are certain classes that all teachers take as far as how to run a classroom, effective teaching styles, things of that nature. And then where's the launching point where you kind of go into your specialty?
00:11:24
Speaker
So some of that depends on the state you're in. I've taught in four different states, ah California, Oregon, Idaho, and Texas. Each state's laws are slightly different, but the basic qualifications are the same. do You do have to have a license, a state-specific license, like you have to apply every time you move to a different state.
00:11:45
Speaker
Yes, that is correct. Okay. Okay. So you, you get your um bachelor's. Mine was in music education. There's like early childhood education. There's secondary. So there's different tracks within your bachelor's degree. Then once you you graduate from your college, you would then pursue your credentials. So your teaching credential typically is about a year. I did,
00:12:11
Speaker
So I got my teaching credential on what was called back then an emergency teacher credential in California. So I didn't actually do student teaching
Challenges in Music Education
00:12:20
Speaker
my first year of teaching. I had a mentor teacher and then I have professors who were coming to observe and stuff while I worked on my teaching credential. I was also teaching and getting paid.
00:12:31
Speaker
That way to do it. ah There's a lot of state programs that will, you know, if you have a BA or any kind of bachelor's degree or an associate's, you can enter teaching programs and walk through and get hired at a school district pretty easily nowadays because there's a teacher shortage. But um' the process is is basically the same.
00:12:57
Speaker
Sometimes the teaching credential if you are working full time and you haven't you know gone to school to be an educator might take you closer to two years, but it's totally doable to do while you are teaching at the same time. and Okay.
00:13:13
Speaker
when When you have a student come into your class, do they do they typically, at the earlier ages, let's say middle school or junior high, whatever, I know it goes by different names nowadays, but do most of the kids come in with already an instrument that they want to play?
00:13:32
Speaker
Or are most of them sent, you know, they come in and say, well, my mom or my dad said I have to play this. Or because, you know, i I wouldn't want my kids to play the drums. but Yeah. Well, I have a percussionist at home. My youngest is a drummer. So yeah, it's definitely a world of different. But I think it depends on the family's experience with music and involvement in their children's lives, middle school. So for example, in California, band choir and orchestra started in fourth grade. Here in Texas, they don't start until they enter sixth grade.
00:14:08
Speaker
so some of that you know is different part of that is texas starts music at an at kinder here versus california they didn't start any kind of fine arts class until usually about fourth grade but um there's a different you know process i've seen it done a lot of different ways where kids can come and try all the different instruments in band and orchestra to see what they like and what fits their, you know, body type and their hands and their size and all of that. And that usually helps kind of hone in on what's best suited for a child. But, you know, children also have their opinions on what they want to play. And sometimes that's what they end up going with. And then eventually they might change.
00:14:57
Speaker
Do you find that most of the kids when they come in, their family has a history of my mom or dad played when and they were in band younger and so it's a good thing to take or are a lot of your kids coming in? Well, I just signed up for it because the other class I went was full or I'm really excited to be here. I saw this video of a guy playing on the saxophone years ago and I can't wait to learn how to play it. How does what's the makeup of most of your kids that come in from that standpoint?
00:15:25
Speaker
Instrumental is definitely more of a choice and typical family history of music to some degree. Choir, not so much. um Unfortunately, especially in middle school, choir tends to be a little bit of a dumping ground. If you don't have counselors and administrators who are you know supporting you in your program, it might become a place to dump kids that didn't get what they wanted. Band and orchestra is not typically that way.
00:15:55
Speaker
So typically the band orchestra students will have a lot more support from home and family history of instrument or music to some degree. Choir is more of a probably 50-50 split there.
00:16:09
Speaker
How often are you surprised by a student that comes in who maybe doesn't want to be in choir or doesn't really want to play the trumpet because their parents made them. But they're there and and then all of a sudden, you know, a month into it's like, man, you are really good. I mean, that that diamond in the rough where you could go somewhere with this. Does that happen very often or do most people you know kind go ahead? I think I think I see a good chunk of that where You know, while I've been here in Texas, the kids have music so young, but as I prepare them to enter the middle school level here, um you know, kind of advising and answering questions about what it looks like moving forward, I think there there are a lot of kids who
00:16:58
Speaker
because they maybe come from a lower income, poverty level family, they don't see themselves doing stuff like that. And so when they have the opportunity to do that, it's kind of cool to see how they will flourish in something new like that, that maybe they had never seen for themselves, or, you know, coming in because they were told they had to, and then if If the director makes that investment in the student, then that can be all the difference in the world for them continuing on in whatever music class they're in because that really is a connection. You're you're making music together with your students. there's It's not just a academic class.
00:17:45
Speaker
It's something that you're doing together, you're creating together, you're working through together. And so there's a little bit of a different level to your relationship with your students when you're doing a creative outlet like music because it opens the door for interactions and conversations about things that maybe you know the classroom teachers don't get a chance to have because you just spend a lot more time with them. Do we think that are things that they usually love and want to do?
00:18:17
Speaker
You just mentioned something a second ago and I'd like to expand on it if you can. You talked about the lower income kids and I've priced some instruments in the past and you and I both know you can drop some serious coin on some instruments. You know, they do have some entry level ones, but does do most schools have some kind of a program where they will get you a rental or they own the instruments and they issue them or there's some kind of a, if you want to buy this, you make payments or How does that does? How does that work? Yeah, so this is my 24th year teaching and in
00:18:54
Speaker
My 24 years teaching, I've taught at what is called a Title I school for probably 19 of those 24 years. So I have a lot of experience at Title I schools, which is typically your Title I basically means it's low economic poverty or you know those kinds of situations. So the schools always have like a rental program, it's usually very cost-effective for families. And then there are typical scholarships available. ah For example, my ah eldest and middle child both did high school band. And I mean, when we had two in band, we were paying over a thousand dollars for the two of them just to do the basics in band. Right.
00:19:52
Speaker
So it is expensive, but they do have scholarship programs and they do have ah you know instruments that they will loan to students that need the help and need the support. So I've never seen a school that didn't have something like that available to students who needed it.
00:20:11
Speaker
Are there any instruments that when you were starting out you just never saw as part of band and now you know I think about kind of the unique like the xylophone and things that wouldn't be what you would consider an everyday instrument like the guitar or the saxophone or whatever.
00:20:30
Speaker
Are you seeing there being a deeper bench of instruments or a wider catalog of things that people are playing or is it still kind of start off with your standard instruments that everybody could rattle off and then as you get deeper into maybe high school towards the end or if you're in marching band, the catalog of options opens up?
00:20:50
Speaker
Typically, we stick to the basics in middle school, ah you know, your standard ah violin viola cello, string bass harp for orchestra, and then your standard winds and percussion for band. They, they expand a little into high school.
00:21:09
Speaker
I also think it depends on your demographics of the different ethnic groups across your area. For example, mariachi is really big here in Texas. So we do have you know a little bit more unique instruments that come from the mariachi because they're they do use guitar, but they also use some specific instrument that that are only to mariachi that you won't see in a standard band. yeah and so Some of that will really make a big difference to you know what they want to do. If they want to play mariachi, then they're going to stick to those mariachi instruments versus band. but
00:21:50
Speaker
they can still start in band and and expand that because they're getting such a foundation for reading music and playing and that kind of thing that that they wouldn't necessarily get ah elsewhere.
00:22:03
Speaker
Do you think most students after they graduate, I'm sure you run into people periodically after they've already left high school, do most people continue to play their instruments?
Engagement and Rewards in Teaching
00:22:14
Speaker
Maybe not as a career, but just because they enjoy it as a hobby or do like myself, like I was playing the trumpet when I was younger and after I left and didn't have to play it anymore, I i quit and I don't necessarily regret it, but I still love music.
00:22:31
Speaker
Do you see most people kind of doing that or do a lot of people nowadays stick with it? I think it's a balance, you know? Okay. For example, I mean, my son, he's still in college, but he's in the medical track, but he is still singing at his university. He's in the top choir.
00:22:52
Speaker
and really enjoys it. He misses playing in band, but there's just not time for that. yeah People that I know who are adults, I see it come out in different ways. It might be being a part of your worship team at church or your choir at church or, you know, special events like Christmas and Easter where they need instruments to come and play. So, oh I mean, there is a fair amount of people that maybe choose other careers, but still can utilize their gifts and their talents and their love of music, maybe not daily or consistently, but still throughout adulthood. you know That's the cool thing about music is you can use it in so many different ways and places. so
00:23:36
Speaker
There's been a lot of studies done that younger people that are involved in sports or in music or some kind of an activity like that, you know there their mental health is can be better. Their incidence of getting in trouble or you know having interactions with law enforcement is lower.
00:23:52
Speaker
I think you keep you know the the old phrase about idle hands of the devil's workshop. and If your hands have an instrument in them more often than not, you're probably going to be too busy to go get in trouble. So music has a lot of benefits ah to people in general, even as adults. right When you were you got your bachelor's degree and then you got your, you said it was an emergency teaching certificate.
00:24:17
Speaker
Credential ahh or credential yeah what other types of training you always hear about teachers that while I'm going to get my masters or I'm going to get you know this specialized type of training. What is the is there a general path or does it depend on what you're teaching and I'm assuming that typically will positively affect your pay.
00:24:37
Speaker
Yeah, ah so I have a master's degree in educational leadership and administration. It was kind of a, I only needed to do like six more classes with my credential program. So I just tapped it on and kind of did a two and one. So, you know, I graduated with my credential and my master's at the same time.
00:24:59
Speaker
ay you can, depending on the track you take, and most school districts across the country require what is called PD, professional development hours. And like in California, I actually had to take classes and prove that I was continuing education throughout my um every so often, you know, it was about five years, I think you had to prove that you were still doing things to learn and grow in your field. Here in Texas they do it the same way but it it's through your district instead of just kind of on your own. So every state does it different but you know a band person is going to focus on things that are going to benefit them in band, orchestra, choir, whatever. ah Every single state has some kind of music educators association so we have TNEA here in
00:25:53
Speaker
Texas and they do a big conference every year where you can go spend five days and take all sorts of classes for. Anything from elementary to college level in any kind of focus and you know continuing to grow and learn.
00:26:10
Speaker
what you can do for your classroom, for your students, for your program and that kind of thing. So there's requirements and lots of opportunities to continually grow and learn new things depending on what your focus is. Are these classes that you're taking, are they typically online nowadays or do you have to go sit somewhere in a class or how does that typically play out or both?
00:26:35
Speaker
It's a, it's a mix of both. Yeah. Okay. So like, if you want to become Kodai or, or certification, which is typically a more elementary geared, uh, style, there's classes on like Saturdays once a month. Uh, if you want to, you know, learn more about a specific instrument or a style of music or something, uh, for band or orchestra, there's a lot of online opportunities. There's every state also has like,
00:27:05
Speaker
the band director's association, the choir director's association. So it really is like ample opportunities to learn and grow specific to what you want.
00:27:19
Speaker
All right, I got a question specific about pay. and That's one of the things that people like
Teacher Shortage and Educational Demands
00:27:24
Speaker
to know. And I know that, you know, you've been in a couple of different states, the cost of living, like, for example, in California, I'm in Missouri, it's there's a significant difference in the cost of living in those two states. So I know that the pay is going to reflect that.
00:27:39
Speaker
But what if someone just says I'm going to be a music teacher and I'm getting close to being done with my education and I'm looking for my first job. I mean, are we talking what are we talking out ballpark for and a first year music teacher?
00:27:56
Speaker
Well, depending on the area, of course. So what's funny is when we lived in California, we were in the Central Valley and our pay was actually one of the better ones in the state. When do we moved to Texas, I actually took a pay cut.
00:28:13
Speaker
And the area that we are in Texas now is one of the fastest growing in the country. So our pay does not reflect the growth in the rise of costs of everything the last few years here. yeah So ah most, I would say an average across the country starting salary for a first year teacher would usually roughly be about 45 to 55,000 give or take, depending on the area.
00:28:42
Speaker
How does the pay because I know some teachers will take advantage or take advantage. They will teach summer school and some won't. I've known some teachers that are kids when they were in elementary school. The teachers, you would see them sometimes waiting tables in the summertime because they didn't want to do summer school. And I think they could actually make more money waiting tables, which is unfortunate. I wish it wasn't that way. We don't value teachers.
00:29:08
Speaker
as much as we should, I don't think. yeah But that's for another podcast to talk about. But, you know, there's going to be times where out of the school year in the summertime, do they typically break down your pay to where even in the summertime, you're still collecting a paycheck? Or do you have the choice to say, I'll only get paid during the school year, but my pay is higher, and then I'll have those three months or whatever it is where I don't get a paycheck? Or can you? yeah um so Is it different by school?
00:29:40
Speaker
Yeah. So when I first started teaching, I was given the option to choose if I wanted a nine month or 12 month pay. Okay. So nowadays, most districts just automatically do 12. I don't really know of to be people that would choose to not get it across 12. As far as pay goes, you know some of that is dependent on the area. But I mean, teachers, the pay is is average, but it definitely doesn't reflect the hours because you know people think, well, teachers get breaks and summers and weekends. and
00:30:19
Speaker
Yeah, but the emotional and the, um, just the passion that you pour into what you're doing at the hours don't typically correlate to be equal to the pay, but most teachers aren't doing it for the pay. They're doing it for the students. So, you know, there's not much growth as far as, uh, pay increase there, unfortunately. But again, we don't do it for that. That's not why we're there. so Right.
00:30:49
Speaker
You had said earlier that the, there was a teacher shortage when you were getting your emergency credential. Um, is that, is that just kind of a chronic problem? I, you know, I interviewed a nurse recently and you always hear that there's a nursing shortage nationwide. It just seems to be kind of a chronic problem. Would you say that's the same scenario in our education system?
00:31:16
Speaker
Yeah, unfortunately, there's a lot of factors to ah I mean, it's the teacher shortage is worse now than when I started. Some of that a lot changed in education after 2020. A lot, but it's also to there's changes in you know, the the type of people the age um coming in and support with your administration and your district, there's a lot of factors that go into that. so
00:31:49
Speaker
I mean, I helped a friend who has never taught before and she applied for a teaching program and got hired a week later and had never taught. But she literally started the second week of school having never taught before. And she's doing great. But, you know, that's also a motivation, a choice by the person. So If someone is interested in being a teacher, it's possible and doable, but ah you know having support is definitely key to making it that those people last. I think that's part of the reason why we have the teacher shortage we do is because there isn't consistent support across the board in education. Our teachers just kind of getting churned up and used up and spit out with
00:32:37
Speaker
you know Yeah, you know, the state will say, well, let's try this program. Or the district will say, well, we're going to use this program or this curriculum. Or we need, like, for example, our district changed a whole bunch of things this year. And across the board, in every subject, we need to focus on writing because reading, writing, math have been so poor after 2020.
00:33:01
Speaker
and the scores across the country are reflecting that. And so even though I teach music and I do writing, I have to show proof that I am doing regular activities that have students from kinder through fifth grade doing some kind of writing in my class to support the academics across the board. So it's just every school year, there's always a change and, you know, that's normal. But Some years it's a lot and this is one of those years where a lot of people are just feeling all the pressure from all the different places and not really feeling like it's totally attainable at the same time.
00:33:44
Speaker
when you're When you're teaching music, I know that there's the the instructing of the instrument and how to play the notes and how to read music and things of that nature. Do music teachers in your line of work that aren't teaching maybe music theory or something along those lines that would be a whole separate curriculum, do you talk about the history of instruments or famous people that are, I mean,
00:34:12
Speaker
You kind of get what I'm getting at as far as what your classroom day is like. It's not just the instrument itself. Correct. So I mean, I see my students are our rotation is once every six days. So I don't see them super often. And I'm seeing each grade level once a day and then, you know, each group. And so I kind of try and focus I have my curriculum outlined throughout the year where you know one quarter we're focusing on vocals one quarter we're focusing on music reading another quarter is instruments and then you know another quarter is kind of doing all of the other things like throwing in genres and throwing in you know popular stuff because again.
00:35:02
Speaker
creating a love and a passion for music and students is about drawing them in. And sometimes that means going down to their level ah to find stuff that they're interested in to pull them into, you know, the love and passion for it, whether it be vocal or instrumental. So we kind of do a little bit of everything and that's across the board. Even in the high school level, you're still doing a lot of different things, even though you might be specific to band, orchestra, or choir.
00:35:31
Speaker
Music has changed a lot ah in my lifetime. It used to be just you didn't have the computer side of things, the electronic side of things and not getting into the discussion of what is what constitutes actual music. I think you can have creativity.
00:35:48
Speaker
Even if you're not playing an instrument, you can still make some cool stuff. So yeah, you know, let's let's get that out of the way. But do you find that the technology side of things is crowding in with more of the traditional side of things when it comes to creating music? Or is that you don't really focus on the electronic side of stuff?
00:36:08
Speaker
I think you can blend the two together pretty easily. Yeah, you can have your separate styles, but I've seen some pretty cool things where you take a classical piece of music and you're adding some tech pieces to it and you know the the mixing or you know changing of instrument sounds or whatever to create something totally different and unique. and I think that's the cool side of adding the technology to what we're doing. and Of course, you know on stage, you're adding in a whole different set of lighting and and sounds and you can do visuals now. and so I think in the majority, people would agree it actually brings a lot of new things to the table to add to the creativity of music.
00:36:58
Speaker
One thing you just mentioned, the the lighting and the the sound and stuff, do you have a lot of kids that get into music and gravitate towards behind the scenes, not playing an instrument, but being a part of the production? Yeah, absolutely. There's actually most high schools and they'll start some middle schools actually take a production class that is geared towards sound, audio, engineering, lighting, that kind of stuff, because there's such a need for it now. Hmm.
00:37:28
Speaker
How often, and if you don't want to answer this, that's fine. But how often do you get a kid that comes in to play the tuba or something and they are just tone deaf. They have no rhythm. There's no hope. And it's just, I, your kid, you're giving me a migraine. How often do you find a kid that, you know, you're a great young man. I really like you a lot, but this just isn't your, it's not your wheelhouse.
00:37:54
Speaker
Yeah, unfortunately, there are those kids and, you know, you have to get creative on how to handle it. But um sometimes those kids are also the ones who love being
Love for Teaching and Future Plans
00:38:04
Speaker
there the most. And so I have always found when I have a student like that, that I focus on the positives of, you know what, yeah I just love your your attitude and your joy for being here and that we focus on that rather than the fact that maybe they can't keep up with things or play or sing the right stuff. They're just happy to be there. Are they the ones that usually end up playing the triangle and they have that one note? There's that one note at the end and you can't miss it. Yep, usually. Okay. Got to get creative.
00:38:40
Speaker
Well, that parlays into what do you like most about your job and then what do you dislike most about your job? The best part about my job is the students for sure. um If I didn't have my students, I don't think I would last. The students are what bring me joy interacting with them and seeing the joy and excitement and the light bulbs that go off when they learn something new and You know, just the fun that you get to have with students, that is by far the the best part about being an educator. That is the payout, in my opinion, i and that's what keeps me going every single day.
00:39:23
Speaker
do you Do you think that it's you're investing your time and your energies into a young person who's a bit of a canvas that you can you know put your image on and show them something that maybe they they never would think on their own to see? you know Our society is so we communicate our ability to communicate is as good as it's ever been technologically. And yet we the amounts of loneliness and isolation are just way high. So when you can interact with someone, a human being with something that isn't a technological device, and you can see the the eyes pop open and the passion start to develop and the smiles and things that has to be extremely satisfying.
00:40:09
Speaker
Yeah, and again, it can be anything. like For example, I did an opera unit earlier this year, and we had an opera singer and um come down and do a demonstration for my older students, so second through fifth. And I had a student come up to me afterwards and said, that just spoke to my soul.
00:40:34
Speaker
And you know it's kind of funny that that she's saying that spoke to my soul, but she'd never experienced anything like that before. yeah And so seeing and hearing the style of music that she'd never been exposed to firsthand from this opera singer was just something that blew her mind. And she she said, I want to be an opera singer someday. and And I don't think she'd ever heard of opera before I had introduced it to her. So it's those moments where whatever it is, if a student connects to something and they get to experience
00:41:13
Speaker
you know, anything that is new to them that they find joy in, then that is success as a teacher. So, you know, to go to the other side, the the hardest part ah about being an educator is the adults, honestly.
00:41:31
Speaker
If I could you know be a teacher and not have to deal with unfortunate drama and you know that comes from administration or other teachers, then my job would be 10,000 times easier. But yeah it's the mandates and the expectations that are put on you from administration or district or other teachers that that's what makes teaching hard, in my opinion.
00:41:59
Speaker
I think nowadays you there's such a tendency for ay leadership management, oversight administration, whatever term you want to put on the people that are running the show, sometimes those folks forget that we're not here to check boxes that these people have this certification or that they've met this little benchmark. In your role, you're here to show kids the beauty of music and how it can benefit their lives, maybe their pocketbooks, but maybe not. yeah But a lot of people can play the guitar or play you know the saxophone or something their whole life.
00:42:39
Speaker
in the privacy of their own home and just really get joy out of it and never make a cent. Because I think you can have a well-rounded life when you do things like that. And sometimes the folks that are running the show lose sight of the true purpose of what they're there because a bean counter says, well, we can save 0.03% on this if we missed. And you know then the state gets involved and it's like, oh, good grief, people. You forget what we're here for. you know ah but you have to have a huge bottle of Advil in your desk drawer. ah You can only imagine. Beefy powder is my ah go-to. Yeah, and just for folks that don't know what that is, it's not cocaine, so it it looks like it, but it's not. It's aspirin with caffeine. Right, right. Yes. So you've been teaching for how many years now? This is my 24th year. 24th year. Yeah, long time.
00:43:33
Speaker
are you What's next? Are you happy in what you're doing and you're gonna continue to do it? Or are you looking at a different advanced level of education that would allow you to do something else? Or is there an ancillary career that you're doing on the side that may go somewhere? Or where are we at?
00:43:52
Speaker
You know, that's always a question an educator isn't really sure how to answer. yeah i For example, I teach voice, sax and piano lessons in my home after school. I do some digital marketing business stuff on the side because unfortunately I have to to just continue to support our family, but I enjoy it as well as far as what's next.
00:44:20
Speaker
I don't know. it's been The last few years have been a bit rough just with some district and administration changes. And so I think I have questioned more lately if my time in education is coming to a close. But then again, I still find joy in my time with my students. And right that's why I'm there.
00:44:45
Speaker
So, you know, maybe that means changing districts or maybe that means changing levels. But as far as I can see, I'm still planning to stick where I'm at. But, you know, that that could change. It just depends on what things look like for the next year and the expectations that are brought down from, you know, the state level on down. It it kind of is a trickle effect. But there isn't I asked that question, but I always feel the need to kind of follow it up with, there is there's not a need to always to just keep advancing. you know I've known guys that have promoted in the fire service because they felt like, well, I need to make more money and I need to do this. And if I want to do that, then I got to do this. And then they get there and they're not happy. um And I think if they're honest, they could go back and say, you know what, I would take a small pay cut.
00:45:37
Speaker
to go back and do what I was doing because I was good at it. I really enjoyed it. And there's nothing wrong with if you're good at something and you enjoy it, then cruise. There's that it doesn't mean that you're you're a failure. It means you found your niche and you're benefiting your crew or your coworkers or the public or whoever you're serving. So just lean into it and keep going. And then maybe someday you'll feel the need to, you know, advance in some way, shape or form.
00:46:06
Speaker
but Yeah. You know, as I was younger, I saw myself doing upper high school, college level. And I i still have a desire for that. Am I ever going to do that? I don't know. I thought about going back to school and getting my doctorate, but There's also just this sweet spot of I'm good at what I do right now. And while maybe not everything is great with, you know, the entire situation, my students and I are good. And I have a good relationship with my students. I, one of my biggest
00:46:41
Speaker
focuses is always developing a relationship with your students because when you're making music together, you have to have that relationship with them because you're creating, you're doing stuff that, you know, is beyond the academics. And so it's okay to stay where you're at. It's okay to sit in a sweet spot if it feels good. And you know, I don't know what's next because I'm happy with that right now. And so You know, I do think the the focus is always growing and going up and up and up. But in education, it's not like the business world where there's only so many places you can go up before you can't go up
Attributes of Successful Music Teachers
00:47:25
Speaker
anymore. So yeah. Well, plus happiness, what's that? What's the dollar sign on happiness? If yeah yes, we all have to make money. That's an unfortunate reality of life. But how much happiness are you willing to trade for money? Yeah, sometimes.
00:47:41
Speaker
you know, stay where you're at and maybe, you know, get less Starbucks and you'll so yeah it's usually not that simple as a gross oversimplification. Yeah, coffee is what keeps me going for sure. I know. Yeah. What if someone wanted to be a teacher, specifically a music teacher, what types of individuals Is it usually an extroverted type of a person or a creative person or an artsy person or what kind of person gravitates towards your line of work? I've actually seen all over the map from extrovert to introvert. um Typically a music educator is going to be more right-brained. ah But that doesn't mean, I mean,
00:48:28
Speaker
There are a lot of left brain people that are really good at music because they think of it in a scientific mathematical format versus the creative, you know, so the two can coincide. But I think depends on your focus of which track you want to do or which level you want to focus on. Typically, you know, the more extroverted people will be in the more hands-on extroverted groups, but there are plenty of introverts that will be directors as well. So I think it just depends on your desire, your level of um expertise, and then, you know, you can build relationship with anybody no matter who you are. So that's
00:49:19
Speaker
So much of teaching in any subject is about student behavior and relationship and if you can master classroom management building relationships with students then you will be a successful teacher. My mentor professor taught me it's all relational and that's across the board and that is if I could give a teacher any advice it's all relationship. If you cannot master your relationship with your students and classroom management and procedures. Set the tone with that you will be a successful teacher no matter what. The introvert extrovert the example you just used a second ago about someone who depending on what side of the brain they use you know they they kind of approach it from a more methodical logical standpoint. Do you run into people that are
00:50:11
Speaker
They're going to use the logical side of the brain that I can play the notes and technically I'm very good at playing the piano. And then you have a student who they can't play it perfect every time, but there's a feeling there because a lot of people can learn how to play the notes. But then you have some folks that they're in the notes. You know what I mean? There's a creative side to that where you're like, man, I can like I can feel this versus I can just hear it.
00:50:41
Speaker
Yeah, there's definitely two sides to the coin. I see that in my students all the time where, you know, for example, the recorder, I mean, if I'm honest, I hate, I hate the recorder. Well, every parent does. Yes, exactly. The worst thing ever.
00:50:58
Speaker
It is, but it's a useful tool. And what it teaches, so, you know, when I, I start my third graders and third grade is always very difficult when we start the recorder because half the kids will be able to pick it up and they'll be able to play it really easily.
00:51:17
Speaker
because they have good hand-eye coordination. They have a good understanding of basic music concepts. Then you have your students who are going to struggle with anything in their hands, but they once they get it, oftentimes those kids will be able to play the music more in depth, maybe not as technical because maybe they aren't good at the you know hand-eye coordination, but they feel the music in a different way. So music, that's a cool thing. It's a universal language. It goes across the countries. It goes across the world, and anybody can learn how to do it, whether you're right or left-brained.
00:51:59
Speaker
and you're going to show it in different ways, but a technical player is going to excel in the technical side of things. That's typically your left brain. Your right brain person will excel more in the expression of the music and that's that's what's cool. What instrument do you think most people if let's say I'm going to be a teacher, I want to teach music.
00:52:24
Speaker
Is the piano what you would encourage them to learn if they had to learn one instrument as a launching pad to understand? I can't play the guitar, but I can understand what's going on over here. yeah Is there one that kind of ah leads to the others more naturally?
00:52:40
Speaker
ie Yeah, I mean, if you're going to be a choir director, band, you know, an orchestra a little bit different, choir director, I would suggest piano or guitar for sure. Okay. As far as band, um I mean, if you're going to do a music education degree, you do have to take courses that are in band in all the different sections and orchestra.
00:53:03
Speaker
So you are going to have experience playing, but typically an orchestra director will be able to do any of the string instruments. Band, usually you're a brass or a woodwind player, so ah you know that's a little bit different.
00:53:16
Speaker
but I wish I would have stuck more with the piano. I can play, but I am not an accompanist by any means. And that has always been something that I've had to hire out a person to play piano for me because I'm not strong enough to sit down and play and conduct at the same time. Have you ever had any students that went on to make a living with music?
00:53:42
Speaker
Yeah, quite a few over the years, actually. It's been kind of fun to watch everything from becoming a music teacher to music therapy to ah being in you know the university level. It's kind of a wide range of students doing lots of different things. Some are just involved in their church or they have their own band. So it's kind of cool to see.
00:54:08
Speaker
Music therapy, I've heard of that, but can you give me a little Cliff Notes version of what that is? Yeah, there's a couple different ways you can do it. But music therapy, there's like tracks that you can focus on people with Alzheimer's, dementia, and like accessing the neurological side of things. And then there's music therapy for students who are autistic or, you know, any kind of learning disabilities.
00:54:37
Speaker
And then there's just general music therapy for like emotional ah support and like psychology stuff that goes hand in hand. There's a couple different tracks for that. I've also had some students who've done like the tech side of thing and gone into producing or music engineering as well. Hmm.
Mentorship and Career Reflections
00:55:00
Speaker
All right. If let's shift gears for just one second. If you were not in your current career and if you could go back, was there a certain occupation that you thought, if I'm not going to do this, I kind of wonder if I would have been successful at that or something that you always wanted to do. I always saw myself being a performer. To what degree? I don't know. I love to sing. Yeah. Okay. All right. But I mean, that was always kind of my,
00:55:29
Speaker
in my mind what I wanted to do. But as far as another career, goodness. ah I'm not really sure. I, you know, you go through your typical kid thing where you want to be a lawyer and you want to be a this or that, but I've thought if I ever had to quit teaching music and I wanted to continue teaching, I would probably go to history, but that would require me going and taking a class and taking a test because that's how they show that you know stuff. So what's, what type of history is it? Civil war or, you know,
00:56:06
Speaker
um I would probably choose to do American history and maybe British.
00:56:13
Speaker
I don't know. i I like a little bit of everything there. I don't know if I want to do all the world, but I find history fascinating. so right
00:56:23
Speaker
What's the best compliment that you've ever received from a student? Have you ever had a student that just said something to you that, you know, 15 years ago and it pops up into your head every now and again, it kind of makes you smile? Uh, yeah, I have across the years. There's been a few of those. Uh, I think one of the biggest compliments that I've gotten is, uh, a student who told me that they said, you know, Mrs. Colburn,
00:56:52
Speaker
I didn't know if I was going to like this class and I don't know if I have any future in music, but my favorite part was coming to see you because I knew you cared. It wasn't about music. It was about the fact that this student felt seen and valued and cared for. yeah that That means more to me than anything because I know that they feel seen, they feel heard and they feel loved.
00:57:20
Speaker
Well, unfortunately, there's so many kids nowadays that the only positive interaction and reinforcement they get from an adult is at school. They just don't have a home life that their parents, you know, maybe they don't care. They come from a broken home. They're in a foster care. They're in an orphanage, who knows what. ah And if you find a teacher, you hear that a lot. People that come from a rough upbringing.
00:57:45
Speaker
But there was one teacher that they made a connection with that they can point to and say, that person made a difference in my life. So if you're a teacher, no matter what you're teaching and you're listening to this, there's something to be said for that. You may not even realize it till years later when you'll see that person as an adult and they'll say, you impacted me. right So don't ever take your job too lightly that you're not making a difference. You probably are.
00:58:09
Speaker
Uh-huh. And, and that's, you know, kind of goes back to, doesn't matter what you're teaching or what you're doing, but if you are developing a relationship with your students and investing in them, that's more important than anything you are teaching. Because so many kids are coming from broken homes and serious situations of things going on in their homes that are unimaginable and school is the safest place that they come.
00:58:40
Speaker
Yeah, you had mentioned some mentors. I forget his name. Have you had more than one person that I mean, there's a lot of people that would influence your career, but has there been one or two people that really stood out that, you know, now you have a platform for my millions, hopefully in the future listeners to yeah give them a shout out, I guess.
00:59:04
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, my my mentor professor is not alive anymore, but um his name was was Dan Nelson, and then Dr. Pagan was another one. ah And then, you know, my abandoned choir director really made an impact on my life in high school as well. I'm Jennifer Kaler and Ruth Freeman.
00:59:21
Speaker
And then, you know, there's people across my childhood who invested in me musically that, of course, even though maybe they weren't a mentor in my career, they influenced and impacted me and made a difference. And I wouldn't be where I am today without all of those people across my childhood and upbringing that, you know,
Advice for Future Music Teachers
00:59:43
Speaker
invested. I mean, it all kind of began with my mom at home and singing with her playing the piano and kind of grew from there. So Any last words of advice for someone who maybe is thinking, I want to be a music teacher. Is there some pearl of wisdom that you can give them that will guide them through their whole career or a little tidbit of of knowledge that would have helped you when you were starting out to know that would have made things a little bit easier? Uh, I would say first and foremost, be gracious with yourself. You're going to make mistakes.
01:00:19
Speaker
There's always going to be something that, you know, isn't going to go right with a program or a rehearsal or whatever. But you're there for the students. You're there to show your love and passion of music with them. And if you can create music together and if you can take one day at a time to build time and relationship with your students. I think at the end of each school year, you will find yourself reminiscing on all of the fun and joy that you did have even through those hard days. But i I would say the biggest thing back to what I said earlier is it is all relational. So focus on relationships with your students, with your coworkers, and have fun.
Conclusion and Gratitude
01:01:11
Speaker
Don't take that so seriously.
01:01:14
Speaker
You know, when I look at a music teacher, I know that teaching all the different subjects is important, but there seems to be a different aspect to teaching music. If I'm in a classroom and I'm teaching history or I'm teaching math, I am telling you how to do something and then you're doing it.
01:01:34
Speaker
And it's not it's not just a one way street, but it's mostly the teacher is sending the information out. But with music, there seems to be you're sending information back and forth. There seems to be more of a give and take in in the music teaching arena versus most of your other subjects like so so sociology or psychology or math or whatever. Yeah.
01:01:58
Speaker
So, well, this has been an excellent conversation. Thank you so much, Jill, for telling us about your job and letting us get a ah deep dive into what it is to be a music teacher. I think teachers are undervalued and we absolutely need to pay them more. So there you go. Thank you. I appreciate it. You bet. Have a good day. You too.
01:02:22
Speaker
And that wraps up another episode of the jobs podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. Hopefully you found that interesting. As always, I wait until the end of an interview to ask you to like, subscribe and share. I feel it's important that I earn that support from you. Thanks again, and we will see you on the next one.