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Podcast 38 - Trusting God When Life Doesn't Make Sense
1 Playsin 4 hours
Join us as we discuss the hope that we have in Jesus and The Word of God.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:09
Speaker
Hey, welcome back. Wow, what happened there? ah To the Grove Hill Podcast. We've got all kinds of weird things going on today. Not the least of which is having one of our interns here with us today. Brayson McCown is our children's ministry intern for the summer. One of our own. Excited to have you here with us. Welcome, buddy.
00:00:28
Speaker
I'm excited. yep And then my mainstay over here at my right hand, Kyle Hess, our student
Understanding Grief in Faith
00:00:33
Speaker
pastor. lo We're going to talk a little bit today about ah probably a subject that touches the life of every believer at some point, um different stages. For some of us,
00:00:44
Speaker
more frequently than others, depending on where you are in your place in life. It's the idea of grief and what it means to grieve as a believer, ah how you trust God in those situations when life seems to come overwhelming, when life doesn't make sense, and there seems to be more questions than answers.
00:01:02
Speaker
I want to help you understand that grief in the life of a believer does not mean that your faith is bad or weak. um it's It's just another emotion, another expression that God has given us for the things that we go through. And you may be surprised at the end of this about how we think grief kind of helps to grow our faith and to mature us as believers.
Biblical Perspective on Grieving
00:01:26
Speaker
So, 1 Thessalonians, excuse me, that's easy for me to say. Chapter 4, verse 13 through 14 says, We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, concerning those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve like the rest who have no hope. I think it's important we recognize there that Paul points out he doesn't expect that Christians will not grieve. In fact, the expectation is we will all grieve at some point. And grief is not always around necessarily an an actual physical death. Sometimes it's the death of a relationship. Sometimes it's the death of a dream. There's all kinds of things that lead us to grief. So let's start with the with the first thing. Why does grief hurt us so much, especially when it relates to the loss of a loved one in some capacity? Why does it hurt so bad? Well, in the aspect of losing someone, whether it be the death of someone or the relationship, um there's love attached to it. And so a lot of times grief happens tremendously when we're really close to the person that we lose. And so the closer you are to someone, the more you love them, then the harder it is when they're taken away.
00:02:37
Speaker
And so... And that's that goes for, like you said, just the breaking of a relationship sometimes can be just, I'm around teenagers who break up with their you know boyfriend or girlfriend that they've been with for a week and a half and just the amount of hurt in their heart, right? But it's when you think you have something in control and then that control is broken, yeah um it causes a lot of sadness. And so when it's you lose someone and someone that's so close to you, um man, it hurts. there's There's no real way to describe it.
00:03:08
Speaker
um It's almost like you're you should be bleeding. You're hurting so bad yeah in that grief. But it's just sometimes hard to understand. It's intense.
Personal Grief Journeys
00:03:17
Speaker
Bray, you actually mentioned before we came online, you talked about the fact that you have been in a place of grief yourself on both sides of your faith before you became a believer and afterwards. So talk about that a little bit for me. Unpack that with those feelings and what that's like.
00:03:31
Speaker
um It was, i guess I'll kind of give a rundown. It was um senior trip. And I had, i was on senior trip with friends and whatnot and got a call from my mom saying that my um cousin's wife had suddenly passed from a heart attack. And at the time i was, i wasn't surrounding myself with the right people. So I tended to start leaning on more of the worldly things to cover that up.
00:04:01
Speaker
um And the difference between how it healed me and now, um you know, dealing with loss in a Christian manner, um the healing is so much more efficient and...
00:04:21
Speaker
forgiving. yeah yeah um Do you get the sense of what Paul's talking there about grieving with hope? How there's a difference there? Yeah. Grieving with hope really became more evident now just because dealing within the Christian manner, you dealing with a christian manner you um you start to see more of the bright side of it.
00:04:50
Speaker
As in, when you start leaning on those worldly things, you think they're going to help, and then kinda just starts adding up onto it as well. And then you're just piling up, piling up, piling up, and it starts to just, and then you
Grieving with Hope
00:05:01
Speaker
break.
00:05:01
Speaker
right You said something at the beginning of the podcast where you said it's okay for a Christian to grieve. um I think a lot of times we think ah we put the pressure on ourselves that we're supposed to be joyful in everything, and and Scripture does say that, um but we think that that means we have to have a smile on our face 24-7. But the fact is, Scripture talks a lot about grieving and mourning and the loss of people. It does. And so... um A lot of times we either put up a front that we're not sad. I remember when my grandpa died at nine um i kind of like pretended like I wasn't sad. I was trying to be tough for the family, right?
00:05:37
Speaker
And in that time that i was trying to be tough, I wasn't doing any sort of healing. I wasn't getting past the fact that my grandpa died. um i wasn't dealing with it. But until I acknowledged it, shed the tears, weeped in my brother's arms, all that kind of stuff, did the healing start to actually happen. And so as as Christians, sometimes we put up that front that we're okay yeah and it's okay to not be okay in those situations. Yeah. And I love that phrase. I've heard it said before, it's okay to not be okay. In fact, There's this really cool story in the scriptures near the end of Jesus' life where he goes to the town of Bethany where Lazarus and Mary and Martha are. And Lazarus has died. He's been brought there to because the sisters said, hey, can you come and see what what you can do for him? Well, he arrives, of course, after after Lazarus dies.
00:06:27
Speaker
And the Bible says that Jesus wept. John 11, 35. Everybody knows that verse is the shortest one in Scripture. Jesus wept. Well, Jesus knew that Lazarus was about to be raised from the dead. Mm-hmm.
00:06:37
Speaker
his His weeping wasn't over the actual death of Lazarus. So what was it about? what was What was Jesus grieving in that moment? At that point, it could have been the absence of his friends, his friend for that time, because he wasn't with them. Also, the pain that others were experiencing. And I mean, if you've ever been around someone who's mourning the loss of someone, you get sad on behalf of them being sad. yeah um So no, it wasn't a shock to Jesus. And he knew it was to come.
00:07:06
Speaker
maybe the Father hadn't revealed that to him that he was going to come there. Maybe not. Yeah. That's a whole different podcast. You know, I think truly that in that moment, Jesus showed us some really cool things by his own human response to death in that moment. First of all, is that grief is okay. If Jesus can experience, then we can too. It's a normal thing in any kind of loss. Tears are not a sign of weakness. And as you said...
00:07:34
Speaker
sorrow and sadness and melancholy in those situations is it's normal yeah it's okay to be ah an okay yeah so god doesn't ask us to pretend um and one of the things i have learned in my own personal walk with with different situations of grief is that all of us grieve differently right so what are some of the things you've learned through your own personal grief experiences what are some of the And i mean everything we just talked about like it goes right back to that difference of you know when I was grieving in you know without the Lord and now that I'm grieving
Lessons from Grief
00:08:12
Speaker
with the Lord. um It all goes back to you know when I was grieving without the Lord I just saw it as you know that person had died like I lost that person.
00:08:21
Speaker
But now um Romans 6.23, the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. So seeing it now as in like losing them here,
00:08:36
Speaker
Yes, it's sad and it hurts, but you also have to remember that um the Lord is getting a new one in heaven. And I feel like that's what really helps me to have that sense of hope. Yeah. ma I think regardless of what the situation is, whether it's when your teenagers losing their love or you know a parent that loses a child, a husband that loses a spouse through divorce, Whatever the cause of grace, probably the first question that everybody asks is why. Why? yeah why Why would God allow something like this?
00:09:13
Speaker
um what's What's the answer everybody's going to get to that question, you think? Man, that's a tough one. It's a tough one. yeah I think the the answer you're going to hear from God 100% of the time is...
00:09:25
Speaker
You won't know right now. You won't know. i think it's a way that God uses those bad situations in accordance with Romans 8, 28, you know, that he works all things according to his power, his will for our good, even in the bad situations.
00:09:40
Speaker
That it's a way that he uses grief to teach us patience, to teach us endurance. In fact, several passages of scripture, including Romans 5, James 1, all talk about count it joy. You go through these experiences because they are working out your faith, testing your faith, causing you to be a little bit stronger. So... I have told people before, you can ask that question all you want to, and in and kindness, God might sometimes show you a glimpse of it. yes But I don't think we ever fully get the answer to the why behind those situations this side of heaven. and And I mean, if you think about that in accordance with everybody grieves differently, um it's okay to ask the question why. like that's That's a natural response. It's okay. um I would even be okay to say it's okay to be upset at God.
00:10:27
Speaker
in your in your grief, where you're like, God, why? you're're You're asking him a lot of questions, trusting him, but at the same time, it is hard and confusing, and you're you're going to get angry, and so where are you going to put that? And so there's two different ways to do that, though.
00:10:43
Speaker
um That question and that those feelings could draw you away from the Lord or they can draw you to the Lord. yeah And so my ask if I'm saying, God, why are you doing this? And I'm pushing him away. God, why are you doing this? I'm getting upset and I'm still pushing at him.
00:10:58
Speaker
um I'm distancing myself and I'm likely going to turn to something of the world, like Bray said, alcohol, maybe just bury myself in work, whatever it may be, because I've already pushed God away from the why. yeah But if I'm asking him, why, Lord? And I'm on my knees at his feet.
00:11:14
Speaker
yeah I could even be in an upset manner like, God, why are you doing this? But I'm still laying at his feet. um I'm not separating myself from him in that instance. And I'm likely going to turn towards him or his word to help me with that grief instead of pushing him away and going to something of the world. I feel like that's a big problem. like that lot of people face is when they start to deal with grief, they feel like God is distant. But Psalm 34, 18, the Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit. People oftentimes forget that the Lord is drawn closer to you in those times of grief rather than them thinking that the Lord is distant. And then, like you said, relying on the worldly
God's Role in Grief
00:11:54
Speaker
things from there. That's right. I remember with my kids, both them when they were younger, would do this playful little thing we'd do typically around Christmas or birthday time.
00:12:05
Speaker
Hey, I went to the store and picked up something today. What is it, Dad? I wouldn't give them a clue. yeah but But the reason I did it is because it kept them coming back to me. Hey, Dad, give me a hint.
00:12:16
Speaker
Come on, Is it big? Is it small? you know Those kinds of things. And we would just go back and forth until finally it was unveiled. And obviously there's a different emotion associated here, but I think in a sense it's a way that God says, okay, I want you closer to me in in this situation because you have you've lost every bit of dependence on all the other things. You're you're leaning into me more. I've won. yeah I've won because I have you at a place where you're before my before my face, yeah you know asking those questions and having this dialogue. um Another question gets asked a lot.
00:12:53
Speaker
I know it did after my wife and son died. Did God cause this? Did God cause this? And I think what you've got to be very careful here to distinguish is the the the statement God is sovereign over all things is not the same as God is the cause of all things. right So speak to that a little bit. Either the one of you. What you got there?
00:13:14
Speaker
Um... We're humans and we do crazy things sometimes. you know Driving at 70 miles an down the road is is a scary thing. yeah And so if a car accident happens, we have a free will. Did God cause the car accident to happen?
00:13:29
Speaker
No, not necessarily. Did he prevent it from happening? That's the different question, right? yeah And so a lot of it probably comes down to we're living in an earth that has dangers and we are sometimes we succumb to those dangers. And so God's not...
00:13:44
Speaker
causing that to happen, but he allows it to happen, he for sure will use that instance, whether negative or positive, ah for good in his kingdom. And so likely that God does not cause these things that happen. And nature does. Sometimes foolish decisions do. Sometimes just plain facts of living on this earth and what it offers. And so, um causing it, no. But, yeah. And i'll give it um I'll give an example right here from when I was dealing with it in or the whole situation that happened ah way back.
00:14:18
Speaker
um Everything that had led up to that heart attack. So, they had a heart transplant when they were a child. And I heard that that whole week leading up that there was tons of you know like signs and symptoms, but they were one of those people, i love them so much, but they were one of those people that was like stubborn. you know yeah And they were just like, ah, it's okay, you know and whatnot. and People would encourage her to go to a hospital to go get checked out and whatnot. She was always, no, because she was working and whatnot. so you know People, i think, forget that sense of free will, like you said.
00:14:56
Speaker
And it always they always boil down to, um you know, like, God, why did you do this and whatnot, rather than remembering that we do have that sense of free will. Yeah.
00:15:08
Speaker
And because we live in a fallen world, we know that there are diseases and
Emotional Reactions to Grief
00:15:12
Speaker
illnesses all around us. So they're not necessarily the hand of God, but it's a place where God's hand has been actually removed from humanity because of our choices. Accidents happen, bodies wear out, death is a natural experience that we all come up against. So sometimes, again, because God is kind and compassionate, he might give us a glimpse of why. But most of the time he doesn't. right I mean, the Bible just kind of consistently points us back to God is trustworthy. And even in those seasons when you can't feel him, sense him, touch him, whatever, you know he's there. yeah The psalmist writes a lot about that in different places. You know, he asks that question, God, have you abandoned me, forsaken me? He doesn't really believe that. It's just that feeling, that sense of being alone in that situation.
00:15:55
Speaker
So, is it wrong to be angry with God when grief hits us?
00:16:03
Speaker
I kind of covered that a little bit. um You are going to be angry. there's You're going to be angry at something. um Oftentimes it is directed towards God because he we know he could have stopped it. He could have prevented it.
00:16:18
Speaker
And so like I said before, um my opinion is if I'm going to be angry at his feet is the best place to be angry. And sometimes that looks like me asking questions in a voice that is is pretty upset.
00:16:32
Speaker
And so, um am I going to stay there? Absolutely not. right I don't have the authority to stay there. um But if I'm going to be angry, at the feet of Jesus, I think is the most important place to be when I'm angry. And so my opinion is yes, I would say it's perfectly fine to, to sit at his feet and ask those questions in anger. Um, but not to stay there. Yeah.
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like, I mean, basically summed it up for me at least. Um, I feel like it is okay to be angry, but it's, I guess it's kind of where and how you displace that anger.
00:17:08
Speaker
So at least, um, that anger I had, um, as not being an elevated follower in my faith and then versus now, um, I was angry at God asking, you know, like, why did he do this?
00:17:26
Speaker
Not going back to, you know, you know We can ask why a thousand times, but we'll never know until we get up there. and It was always in the sense of, like i was being I was angry at God, but not remembering that He lets everything happen for a specific reason, whether will know that reason or not until we get up there. right If you think about it, like if your kid was angry at you, would you want them just thinking about it and not telling you? No, you'd actually want them to come and express it so you can navigate it, right? So it's more of like a relationship building between you and God in the fact that you're casting all your cares, you're bringing in all your concerns, and with the intention
00:18:10
Speaker
to walk through it through Scripture rather than, again, pushing away, if that makes sense. I think what James 1 is trying to tell us in that passage that we referenced just a minute ago is that when you start asking questions like that, it doesn't mean your faith is dying. It just means that your faith is being tested. right And when your faith is being tested, I think James even goes on to say this,
00:18:30
Speaker
it's like metal going through a furnace. It's burning away impurities, it's taking away things. I can honestly say that in my season of grief, after my family's experience, I learned more during that season of grief than I did in the previous five years combined, about God and about my relationship with him. were there times that you were angry? Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I was very angry, and somebody, I don't remember who, might even be one of my sisters who are little bit older than me, um somebody said to me, tell him how angry you are. or He already knows. Let him know. And I think, again, you read through the Psalms very carefully. David did that. He talked about being angry with God. um Job did the same thing. And what and what was ah God's response to that Psalms? ah
00:19:12
Speaker
46, I think it's 10, it says, be still and and know that I'm God. right And so like in that turmoil that we have, he has a response to that. and it's just And to me, that's one of the more restrained responses. I love the response in Job where he comes to Job and says, where were you when I was putting all this in place know Why do you think I need you to consult with me when I should be the one consulting you? Mm-hmm.
00:19:34
Speaker
So, ah yeah, I think it's a good thing for people to ask those questions. I think it's good for them to express those fears, those doubts. um but again the the whole point of this is just to say as believers as followers of christ now i'm not talking people who don't know jesus or don't have the hope of jesus that's entirely different story but but for people who profess to follow christ and have a genuine relationship with him our hope is what keeps us from grieving the way the world does that hope is not wishful thinking it is confidence in the statements of scripture it's confidence that's rooted in the absolute truth of the resurrection of christ
00:20:12
Speaker
And because Jesus is alive, we don't have to be
Hope and Comfort in Faith
00:20:15
Speaker
afraid of death. We don't have to be afraid of the defeat that comes with death. We know that the grave is temporary and that there is something beyond it all.
00:20:23
Speaker
um And Revelation 21 goes on to say there's no death, no mourning, no tears, no pain, none of those things. So i have I have said many times that you know selfishly i would love to have my wife and my son back.
00:20:39
Speaker
But at the same time, I know the problem isn't that I really want them here because they're where I want to be. just I'm sad because i want to be where they're at. yes yeah know And that's ultimately where we all want to wind up.
00:20:52
Speaker
So um very quickly, let's address one other thing before we we call it a day on here. um There's some things we need to avoid as we're helping other people go through grief.
00:21:03
Speaker
some Some little trite phrases we like to say, some what we think is encouraging things are actually confusing. ah Like, everything happens for a reason. Mm-hmm. God needed another angel, which know is one of my paintings because that's bad theology all the way around. um You should be over this by now. Right.
00:21:27
Speaker
um what's the danger in those statements why why why are those so harmful to people who you mentioned it earlier like everybody grieves at a different pace and in different ways and what you might think is helpful in your brain like oh man this would really helpful to me they might they might not even be in that position the last thing you should do when someone loses somebody is go to and say hey remember all things work together for the good of those who love the lord right um Truth in scripture is absolutely necessary. Yep. But in time and in ways and in processing. And so it's not something you exactly want to hear right then. Right. So you just got to be careful with what you say um might not be received the same way that they're going to hear it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:13
Speaker
I feel like it one big question for me is, you know, through loss of relationships and loved ones, always ask the question, you know, like, will I ever be over this? You know, and it all comes back to sense of hope like you were talking about, because whether or not you'll ever fully be over it and have grieved through it, um if you don't have that sense of hope,
00:22:41
Speaker
it'll be a lot more drastic than if you did have that sense of hope. yeah I've shared this many times as I've shared my story over the years, and others may hear it and go, that doesn't make any sense, but it makes sense to me, and so I'm to share it. um When people talk about ah getting back to normal or moving on and those kinds of things, I tell people, to me, it's like if I were to have my arm severed and to lose my arm,
00:23:07
Speaker
there would never be a day where I wouldn't remember I had that arm. Every time I look in the mirror, I'd be reminded I'm missing an arm. But there would be a way that I would learn to adapt and use just one arm, and that would become my new normal.
00:23:20
Speaker
So as believers, because we have that hope, my encouragement is that we learn to look in the mirror and go, I remember what I had, but I'm so thankful that God has me where I can do what I can with what I have. um And the beauty of it is,
00:23:35
Speaker
that when we we trust in God and we allow him to use those situations, that remaining arm becomes stronger. And it becomes able to do things that probably never could have done before. And so...
00:23:49
Speaker
Is it perfect? No. Is it normal? No. You never find normal again. What you find is a new normal where your heart is stable and your heart is healing and it will always bear the scars of the loss. It will always bear the scars of those moments that you remember whatever it is. But there is hope and it's hope that's given to us not by some doctrine or some well-meant sayings or whatever. It's hope that's brought by the life, death, and resurrection of
When Grief Becomes Overwhelming
00:24:17
Speaker
Christ Jesus. Something you have to be ah mindful of when it comes to grieving is if it's extended and crippling
00:24:25
Speaker
and you aren't able to do what you were doing before in a normal way, um if that goes on too long, you might be looking at something that is turning into some type of depression. yes And so um if you're still um crippled by the fact that maybe a parent died 10 years ago, um you're probably in depression and you need to kind of navigate and go back and heal differently than from the from the loss But it's fully natural to be two years outside of someone dying and have sad moments.
00:24:59
Speaker
um But if it's changed the way you live every single day, ah you might want to consider talking to somebody about that. We were talking about this earlier. You know the stages of grief, right? Because your classes, do you remember what they all are?
00:25:12
Speaker
um Summer, I mean... don't know them all, so... I know that first one's really denial. You know, you always want to go back to... You start asking that question, why? Or like, why me? Or like, why did this happen? And I know there's two different types of grief. And there's a stage for blame, too, where you try to find blame. Yes, displacement, I think.
00:25:37
Speaker
Anger's a stage. Anger's a big stage. And then... um Man, should have went back and looked. Put you on the spot, you did pretty good. So the the point is that there are stages of grief, but you don't perceive them in the same order as everybody else.
00:25:54
Speaker
Some stages you stay at longer than others. You actually revisit stages sometimes. But to me, the key is go through all of them, experience all those stages. Just don't pack up the yeah U-Haul and stay there. Right.
00:26:08
Speaker
You know, always keep moving forward in your healing. Keep proceeding in in your recovery of where you're going. And again, strive for that new normal that God promises he will bring to you. Right.
00:26:20
Speaker
Okay. right. With that, let's wrap it up
Conclusion and Prayer
00:26:23
Speaker
with a prayer today. sir. Because we got a lot of people grieving for lots of different reasons around us. these days and um i mean just about everywhere you turn in this world because it's a broken place there's somebody who's needing healing so let's pray father a god we thank you for today and um just this conversation and while it may not have been um exactly what someone needed today my prayer is it's going to be exactly what they need when they hear it lord um that maybe they'll play it three years from now and and they'll see and hear these words and be encouraged Lord, I thank you for the hope that is Christ Jesus, Father, who can overcome all things. And the promise that there is no no darkness, no valley, no depression or anything that we go through, that you are not there with us as the good shepherd walking this journey with us. The psalmist David wrote in that famous psalm that you are the shepherd who walks us through the shadow of the valley of the shadow of death.
00:27:19
Speaker
So for anyone out there today who's hurting, anyone out there who is experiencing pain or frustration or discouragement or grief, i pray that they would find and receive the peace that passes all understanding, Lord, and that they would be able today to find the energy, the motivation, the desire to just pick up one foot and put it in front of the other and continue to move forward in finding the new normal you have for them.
00:27:43
Speaker
We thank you for the cross and the empty grave that give us the promise that we do not grieve as the rest of the world does, but we grieve as people of hope. And it's in Jesus' name I pray. Amen. Amen. but Thanks for joining us today. We look forward to having you back next time. It's always a joy to have you with us, and we hope you hit the like button and share it with your friends.
00:28:02
Speaker
Hope you have a great week. Bye. Bye.