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Non Timber Forest Products
102 Plays1 year ago
In this special mini episode, we're going to talk about non-timber forest products, or NTFPs for short. These are products that come from forests, but are not sold as timber. They include things like mushrooms, berries, nuts, herbs, honey, and many more. NTFPs are important for biodiversity, food security, and income generation for many people around the world. We'll learn about some of the benefits and challenges of harvesting and managing NTFPs, as well as some tips on how to get started with them on your own woodlot. So tune in and join us for this mini adventure in the forest!
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: hortculturepodcast@l.uky.edu
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Transcript
Introduction to Hort Culture Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to Hort Culture, where a group of extension professionals and plant people talk about the business, production, and joy of planting seeds and helping them grow. Join us as we explore the culture of horticulture.
00:00:16
Speaker
Hey everybody, we're jumping in here today.
Exciting Bonus Episodes
00:00:19
Speaker
It is Ray and I on the podcast and we are doing just like a little fun bonus episode. We decided that each of us would be doing kind of one on something that we are excited about and maybe we've not covered in the podcast and we're not quite ready to flush it all out, but it's just something that intrigues us, excites us, gives us something to think about.
00:00:42
Speaker
You'll be hearing these from time to time and hopefully it's just something that makes you smile, maybe makes you think a little bit or sends you down a rabbit hole, which I think is what happens to me when I hear episodes like this.
Forestry Experiences in Kentucky
00:00:55
Speaker
But I won't carry on too long because Ray is our main focus today and he's got some cool stuff and I'm excited to hear about all the fun things he's talking about.
00:01:04
Speaker
We kind of want to visit with you guys today instead of completely skipping episodes during the holiday season or just after the holiday season. In this case, we wanted to go ahead and do some shorter episodes and get those in, you know, around the 20 minute mark and just talk about some more personal topics, professional and personal topics.
00:01:24
Speaker
some special interest topics but that that's what today's all about but more specifically what today is about for me is thinking back on some of my personal experiences growing up and professional experiences when i was an agent in the eastern part of the state here in kentucky uh the county that i'm in that's interesting the county that i'm in now in the central part of kentucky is the least forested county in the state of kentucky uh not a lot of
00:01:53
Speaker
continuous tracks of woodland here in Bourbon County, Kentucky.
Importance of Non-Timber Forestry Products
00:01:57
Speaker
But one of my former counties that I was in as an extension agent here in Kentucky was Floyd County, which is in the eastern foothills of the state. And it was 83, 84% forested. So obviously forestry there and forestry related topics was a huge issue for us.
00:02:15
Speaker
Having forced land cover so much of the total land in the county and in the state of Kentucky I guess I'm almost almost half of the state of Kentucky is forced it I think it's like 48 a little over 48 percent and forestry is a huge industry in Kentucky's I think 2016 2017 numbers are like 13 billion dollars just a massive industry so obviously forestry was an important part of my job there and I worked in
00:02:42
Speaker
Within that topic but as a side shoot off of that topic i also did special programming in non timber forestry products and not to complicate matters but basically that was anything that related to forestry or silver culture sometimes we call forestry silver culture related activities.
Firewood as Supplemental Income
00:03:01
Speaker
But it is anything forestry related that was not directly related to the sale of timber. That's a well established industry here in Kentucky and a big industry. But there's all these other products that you can that can come from the woods or you can derive from woodlands.
00:03:18
Speaker
that doesn't have anything to do with that. Once again I'm going to draw on some of my kind of personal experiences with these products. And there's lots of products out there and I'm not going to try to do it today in 20 minutes cover. Oh my gosh there's so many. But today I'm not going to try to cover every single product. But one example that I'll throw out there that a lot of times we forget about when we were growing up we sold a lot of firewood
00:03:45
Speaker
as a supplemental income because it seems like, and I worked within my job, my professional experiences, I worked with people that had firewood businesses that would either deliver, sell and deliver firewood or have people come pick up the firewood or they would sell firewood for like campfires and they would sell that to vendors that then would sell that to consumers.
00:04:08
Speaker
but that's something we don't often think about. That's not necessarily a pure timber product, but firewood is one of those things that is pretty common in the East. We still have a lot of folks that burn firewood, but it was a pretty good product for us growing up on the farm. Our farm had a lot of timberland and so we sold a lot of firewood and it was a great product for us and it's a good activity.
00:04:32
Speaker
If you're doing timber stand improvement activities, that means you usually have a lot of low quality trees on your property that's never going to make good timber. And one of the things that you can do with those when you thin them out, you have to figure out kind of what to do with that material. You can't obviously, if you have a large woodlot, you can't burn all of that wood realistically yourself. So what do you do with it? And one of the things that we did with it was
00:05:00
Speaker
we would cut that wood for firewood, we would split it up and we would store it. But that's an example that I can think of in the past as a non-timber forestry product.
Firewood Regulations and Invasive Species
00:05:12
Speaker
Do you think that that has changed with kind of the introduction of all these invasive species that we see? Like the emerald ash borer, they will all say burn it where you buy it kind of thing, which if you're
00:05:22
Speaker
If you're buying it to go camping or you're just buying it from your neighbor for your house, then obviously it's not a big deal. There's lots of regulations, yeah, on that, and you have to be very aware of that. In fact, you have to use some... I mean, if you have ash,
00:05:38
Speaker
And it has a known problem with an invasive species like the ash borer. You have to use that in the same general area. You can't transport it outside of the area. You have to use it in place in the same area that it comes from. So yeah, those are issues now. Now there's ways for big commercial producers that are in other parts of the country. They may be doing this on a large scale. There's some kiln drying operations.
00:06:00
Speaker
that you can certify that that wood is insect free. There's some things that you can do, but that usually only applies to the big producers of those products. But yeah, there's some special regulations. And you'll find I'll mention several times during our brief conversation today that if you have any regulatory related questions, always call the Kentucky Department of Agriculture. It usually always goes back to them when it's a regulation based question.
00:06:27
Speaker
So just kind of keep that in mind, Kentucky Department of Agriculture. If you have questions and you're doing something like selling firewood and you're wondering if something is regulated in your area, give them a call. Definitely. Office of State Entomologist Office handles a lot of stuff there through KDA. They're on UK's campus, but they're really awesome people. Yeah, they're very knowledgeable and they work hand in hand with
00:06:51
Speaker
the actual regulators at KDA and they can help you out or refer you to the specific office that can
Shiitake Mushroom Cultivation
00:06:59
Speaker
help you out. But that's one example of a non-timber force to product. Build character for young boys out in the wilderness. Let me tell you what Alexis, my father said, you know, he told us that it would build character as we split cords and cords and cords of firewood by hand.
00:07:15
Speaker
But it's weird that when my brother my older brother and I went away to school that he got a pneumatic wood split. He got a round beller. We used to do square bell hay and he got a round beller and he got a wood splitter when his free labor went to college in the form of my brother and I. So yeah it's funny how that works. What your younger brother wasn't punished the way you were? No he came later so he lucked out of that whole thing somehow.
00:07:44
Speaker
For the most part he did a little bit of that but not commercially like we were just splitting truckloads and truckloads of wood. But yeah it's a character building all right and it toughens up your hands a whole lot. It's an interesting.
00:07:59
Speaker
endeavor for sure, but it's good cardio, Gil's muscle, that's for sure.
Sustainable Harvesting Practices
00:08:04
Speaker
Another thing I guess I was involved with, and it kind of goes along right along with firewood, if you're improving your timber stand, if you have a woodlot, and I had about 60 acres when I lived, 60, 70 acres of woodland personally. And one of the things that I did with non-timber forestry products is I had a small scale shiitake operation where I grew a shiitake
00:08:26
Speaker
mushrooms where you would fresh cut logs, you know, they can't be dead standing. They have to be, you know, in good shape, bark intact. And you cut those and around late February, early March, and then you inoculate those with commercially available mushroom spawn. And here in the state, we have a lot of publications and extension on small scale shiitake operations using natural logs. That's some of the keywords you would look up, Kentucky shiitake mushroom production.
00:08:54
Speaker
natural logs because there's different commercial, commercially available ways of growing mushrooms. But this specific one was very suitable for what I was doing because as I was doing timber stand improvement, I have lots of small oak trees that I was thinning out. And some of those were split up with firewood, you know, into firewood, but others were smaller, four to six inches in diameter. So I'd cut those up into about 48 inch lengths.
00:09:21
Speaker
And I would inoculate those, drill and go through this process of inoculating those and grow shiitake mushrooms. And those logs are good for several years. But that was a pretty good operation for me. And it was an interesting one because at the time there was a pretty good local market for shiitake mushrooms. And I think there still is, there's people still around the state of Kentucky that grow mushrooms. I don't know anybody in your area, Alexis, that does that sort of thing. There's a few left around.
00:09:46
Speaker
Yeah, there's a couple farms that'll do them as part of their CSA. We've got two mushroom growers at our farmer's market who are doing more indoor mushroom production. I don't think they're doing as many logs. I did logs for the first time this year for my own personal and that was fun. We had a big tree come down.
00:10:06
Speaker
in the front of our house. And it was a maple, which isn't the best for shiitake production, but it was, you know, down. There was kind of no choice. And so I thought, well, I feel bad this tree is down. And so we ended up and I've harvested from them already. Oh really? Yeah, that was in March and I did a pretty decent harvest off of the past, I guess last month or something like that. So I'm excited to see what happens in the springtime when their big flush comes out. But that was so exciting.
00:10:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you can do that on a personal scale with two or three logs. Yeah. And, uh, or you can do it on a larger scale and there, there's a system, you know, whereby there's soak this soaking and you know, you're on an eight week production cycle and you produce three times a year, or you can just let it naturally happen in the spring, one flush in the fall, one flush. But it was an interesting fit for me because it was taking a waste product that I was cutting out of.
00:10:59
Speaker
my wood lot and using that and it's small diameter logs. It's logs that you can typically move around and manage. Now, if you have a large chunk of wood, you can just drill it in place and leave it if it's in a shady location where the humidity is high.
00:11:14
Speaker
But yeah, that's a neat operation. I really enjoyed my time producing mushrooms. And I worked with local producers, two or three local producers at the time in the eastern part of the state that was growing those for farmer's markets. And I've worked with a couple in the central part of the state, but it was a great operation. I really enjoyed it. It was a good product. I enjoyed the product personally. It was really good in noodles. You know, make lots of yummy recipes. And I just love mushrooms, but that's you actually going and
00:11:42
Speaker
you know, going through a cultivation process for those mushrooms using non timber for farming them essentially. Yeah, exactly, Alexis farming them. But now it's there's also a long standing tradition, at least where I come from, and I know all across the state and other states that surround us of hunting and foraging for wild mushrooms, which always put a disclaimer in here, you know, you really need to know what you're doing. If you are not an expert in that, I caution you because you can get yourself into trouble.
Wild Mushrooms and Herbs
00:12:10
Speaker
But
00:12:11
Speaker
There are some mushrooms that are more distinct that I think were popular where I grew up, like morels, for instance, there's a long step for personal consumption. A lot of families would hunt those and you know, morels wild morels when they're professionally foraged are worth, they're pretty pricey products, they're a great product. So that's an example of a mushroom that doesn't lend itself well to like a farming operation, but you go out and hunt those things naturally and they can be a pretty good product for you.
00:12:41
Speaker
But I was talking with Alexis before we jumped on here today. One of the biggest themes with everything that I'm going to tell you today, non-timber forestry products, is sustainability has to be built into everything you do when we're talking about all of these wild foraged products or these products that come out of woodlands because it's so easy.
00:13:04
Speaker
to over harvest something to the point to where you kind of damage the long term availability of that product. And the classic same example I'll give there is something like ginseng medicinal herbs are still a big business in Kentucky wild grown medicinal herbs.
00:13:20
Speaker
And a highly regulated crop that had to be highly regulated would be an example that would be ginseng where only certified buyers can purchase that and it needs to be harvested during a very specific season. And there's all of these regulations in place to ensure the long term viability of that
00:13:39
Speaker
that native crop because it's very easy to over harvest that and you just kind of do away with it. And we did harvest personally a lot of herbs growing up, you know, blood root, ginseng, golden seal, sassafras leaves.
00:13:54
Speaker
ginseng and a few other things. We did harvest those and my father was pretty good about only taking a percentage of the crop and we would not only harvest those off of our own property, but we had lots of friends that lived around us that we could get permission to go on their land and harvest some of these wild crops. Then you go this whole process of drying them down to a specific level that's going to work for the buyer. Then there were some wholesale buyers there that was
00:14:23
Speaker
couple wholesale buyers at the time that was around us and they would buy during specific times of the year and we I remember the smell of like bags and bags these big bags of dried sassafras leaves it smelled so good like the best tea ever we would take that to market or we take you know dried blood root and
00:14:40
Speaker
I remember the color of that and the texture, but we sold a lot of those crops, but you have to be very careful not to over harvest those. And if you have questions, you can call your local extension office. And if you want to know more about the regulations of something like ginseng, that's pretty darn specific, call KDA. And we do have some information.
00:15:00
Speaker
on that at the university but yeah. Would you say like what a good like rule of thumb like if I see a stand of chicken of the woods mushrooms or something if I take a third of that whole stand is that would you see that as sustainable or like kind of what's your rule of thumb? Well in general that's just uh you need to leave a percentage of whatever you're taking because it kind of goes to just common knowledge mushrooms are a little bit different since they're kind of the outward expression of the actual
00:15:27
Speaker
mushroom fungus right fungus that's underground but still you don't want to harvest 100% of anything because you're just basically gonna yeah you're that's how it spreads and if you harvest all the top growth the spreading mechanism of something like chicken of the woods a mushroom for example it's not going to spread anymore and you're going to deplete it so you need to know the specific crop how much you can harvest when you can harvest and and you
00:15:55
Speaker
just don't over harvest if you want to have future harvest of that. And that's that's a common thread in non timber forestry products. And I saw a lot of people get into trouble with that because you'll go into a woodlot and it'll be very productive with whatever you're harvesting, whether it's grape vines or greenery or mushrooms or whatever we're talking about. But it's just so easy to go in and clean everything out. Then you're not going to have anything left.
00:16:23
Speaker
for the future. So that's a common theme in non timber forestry products is sustainability and it's one you can't cheat on.
00:16:30
Speaker
because the forest environment works as a complete ecosystem. And it's a shady environment. So if you're talking about plants, they don't replenish quite as quickly as our sun-loving plants on average. So if you over harvest them, it's really, really tough on those plants. Yeah, they replenish slower. So you have to be cautious about that.
Harvesting Wild Berries
00:16:54
Speaker
But that's just some examples of non-timber forestry products. There's lots of others.
00:16:57
Speaker
Like black walnuts, I consider that a non-timber forestry products. All the herbs, we mentioned that.
00:17:03
Speaker
even things like berries, uh, uh, blackberries and raspberries harvest a ton of those wild blackberries growing up. And I was an enterprising individual, even as an 11 year old, I would go out and, and there was reclaimed strip mine areas that had lots of sunlight exposure and just acres of blackberries, some raspberries, but acres of blackberries. And I harvested, I can't tell you just gallons and gallons and gallons and gallons every year.
00:17:29
Speaker
You know, when I was up until I was a middle teenage years and sold those and they sold very well because I don't know about you guys, but there's a big difference in cultivars of blackberries and wild blackberries have a specific place in my heart. Yeah.
00:17:44
Speaker
I love wild blackberries, but I had access to acres and it was to the point to where I would keep my paths open because this reclaimed fringes of a mined area that was on our property. It was an old reclaimed mine area that had good sun exposure, but it started to all grow up. It went through succession
00:18:02
Speaker
And you couldn't get through there. And I was like, I can't let that happen. So I had a little path that I kept mowed down, but that was a non timber forestry product berries. And I did just very kind of crude management and keeping the paths open to those. That's only management I did, but I would collect, I don't know, 50, 60 gallons a year off of those.
00:18:21
Speaker
It was great supplemental income for a 13-year-old, 11, 13-year-old. Fun fact, if you ever go on a road trip with Ray, he does pull over for Barry Patras. If it is on the public right away, if there are Barrys there, he will pull over and you will pick them up. I had forgotten about that.
00:18:38
Speaker
I will pull over in fact i wish i had a bumper sticker that said will break for berries love it oh my yeah yeah that was fun and i will i will stop if it's wild blackberries alexis yes i'd completely forgotten i believe that was land between the lakes a good trip yeah we will break for berries that's another great example of
00:18:56
Speaker
a non-timber forestry product. We rolled into a thing and we were all like, you know, had the berry stained lips and fingers and stuff. And everyone was like, where have you been? Lips were stained with berries. I mean, people probably thought we were a side. Your fingers were like red. Yeah. Oh yeah. And we rolled up. And that stain just, you know, for reference, that stain doesn't come off easy. When you get those berry stains, you have to pretty much wear it off. It's working. It's fine.
00:19:19
Speaker
It is. It's good. It is good stuff.
Exploring Diverse Non-Timber Products
00:19:22
Speaker
Just another great example of an example of a non-tamper forestry product. And they're everywhere. And they're everywhere. Maybe we can expand on some of those, like in particular in the future. Mushrooms are fascinating. A lot of people have interest in that. I've got a lot of friends who mushroom hunt and are experts in that.
00:19:39
Speaker
Maybe that's a maybe that's a more about that myself i've never ventured out beyond like morels or things that i'm cultivating you know myself that i've been scary yeah i don't i don't get too creative with that i do you know hunt morels myself. Then i grew my own shiitakes but i was an own quantity that i was had specific spawn for but yeah i don't i don't get too creative on that but.
00:20:05
Speaker
Just remember non-timber forestry products. There's a lot of stuff in the woods and if you have a large uninterrupted woodlot or even a smaller woodlot just kind of think of it in those terms. There's lots of stuff out there folks and if you're trying to have some supplemental income or seasonal income. I used to work obviously a lot more with people that did that sort of thing and you know things like honeybees I even considered them honey almost
00:20:31
Speaker
A non timber forestry product because you could put those on the fringe of woods and in the eastern part of the state we've got this long history this lower behind like. Lynn honey or you know.
00:20:43
Speaker
the different like honeys that we love, like black locust honey, and you would have these pure runs of this very light colored honey that was just so good. But even honey, I considered almost a very appropriate non timber forestry product where I was at in the eastern part of the state. So lots of great examples
Episode Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:21:00
Speaker
of non timber forestry products.
00:21:03
Speaker
Awesome. Well, we hope you enjoyed our little quickie episode. Maybe it made you curious. That's my hope is our episodes make you a little bit curious, learn something new, learn something fun that we are passionate about personally and hope to expand on in the future.
00:21:18
Speaker
So follow us on Instagram at Hort Culture Podcast. You can also leave us a review and you can shoot us an email if you're like, yes, Alexis, I want to hear Ray talk to me more about shiitake production. So if you want to hear something like that, feel free to shoot us an email at hortculturepodcast at l.uky.edu. That's in the show notes. We hope that as we grow this podcast, you will grow with us and join us next time for another mini episode. Have a great day, y'all.