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The Indies 2024 & Life As An Indie Brewer
598 Plays3 months ago
The 2024 Indies awards took place in Perth for the first time on August 2, and The Crafty Pint was there to enjoy the celebrations that took place a few hours after the WA Beer & Brewing Conference.
The following morning, we sat down with new Independent Brewers Association chair Callum Reeves, also co-founder of KAIJU! Beer, for a wide-ranging chat about the awards, his new role, the challenges facing indie brewers – including insight on the impact of bi-annual excise tax hikes, new partnerships and key goals for the IBA.
There's also reaction from some of the Indies winners on the night, a look back at our event with FOUND., and a look forward to upcoming Crafty events featuring Phat Brew Club and Rocky Ridge.
If you'd like to find out more about partnering with The Crafty Pint Podcast, contact [email protected]
Links referenced in or relevant to the show:
Indies 2024 winners: https://craftypint.com/news/3538/uraidla-win-champion-beer-at-the-2024-indies-with-a-ripa-of-a-beer
Max Bowering Slays Beer: https://craftypint.com/news/3532/max-bowering-slays-beer
Episode 002 featuring Lindsay Astarita: https://craftypint.com/news/3534/episode-002-lindsay-astarita-of-stomping-ground
WA Craft Beer Strategy: https://www.wabeer.com.au/wa-craft-beer-strategy/
IBA's call to the Federal Government on excise tax: https://craftypint.com/news/3540/the-iba-asks-how-much-more-can-we-pay-for-beer
FOUND.'s plans for Subiaco: https://craftypint.com/news/3443/found-taking-over-former-golden-west-site-in-subiaco
Boundary Island: https://craftypint.com/news/3168/who-brews-boundary-island-beers
Alice Springs: https://craftypint.com/news/3233/alice-springs-brewing-co-five-years-in-five-beers
Phat Brew Club event: https://craftypint.com/event/13346/pre-froth-town-frothies--feed
Point Break Brewery International: https://www.blackmansbrewery.com.au/point-break-brewery-invitational/
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Transcript
Introduction and Listener Feedback
00:00:05
Speaker
Hi and welcome back to the Crafty Pint podcast. I'm James. I'm here with Will. How are you going, Will? Good. How are you, James? Can't complain. um Yeah, it's been a busy week, but another good one for us in terms of the the podcast. and Thanks to everyone that's provided and feedback on our second episode last week and and shared it around as well um with Lindsay from
Stomping Ground's Success and Podcast Goals
00:00:25
Speaker
Stomping Ground. It turned out to be pretty um pretty good timing as well, didn't it, Will? Yeah well a big night for Stomping Ground again at the Indies taking home champion large Australian independent brewery and some other trophies as well. Lindsay was like literally picking them up on stage because she was the one yeah over there. So just saying yeah it was it was really sort of great for us to have featured Lindsay on last week's episode talking about running a sensory program, a quality program and you know
00:00:54
Speaker
selecting beers to go into awards and giving some insight on judging and awards and then what 29 hours or 36 hours after it went live to have that same person um proving that they know what they're talking about was was pretty cool. Yeah so great feedback on the Lindsay episode. Since we launched the podcast we've had a lot of brewery owners get in touch putting themselves forward sometimes their staff are getting in touch putting their owners forward which makes me wonder who's who's telling them to do that potentially One thing we really want to do with this podcast is make sure we're not just featuring brewery owners and head brewers, things like that. We'd love to really show the full gamut of what working beer is is like. So if you're a bar or you've got great people working in sales or unique parts of the brewery or and anything like that, if you want to put your stuff forward, just shoot us an email. It's genuinely something we we really want to make sure we have a big focus on.
Uradla Brewery's Unexpected Wins
00:01:48
Speaker
We don't know the entire industry. We don't know everyone in the country. so we
00:01:51
Speaker
we do need listeners help with that. Yeah, ah you know we're we're interested interested in anyone in any walk of the industry in any role who has a great story to tell or insight to share and given we've now committed to doing this every week we should have plenty of opportunities to get people on. People like Max towering, I guess. oh nice nice Nice segue there. We'll have we'll have a you know few moments from Max later on in the show, but that was the other bit of quite amazing serendipity. Last week on The Crafty Pine, there was a Monday or Tuesday we published an article on Max. It was part of our Slays Beer Series, which is showcasing sort of Gen Z, the young sort of next generation of stars in the Australian beer world. um and
00:02:31
Speaker
Max got a phone call and was invited to fly over from Eradler and the Adelaide Hills for the Indies Awards um and ended up walking away with the champion independent Australian beer trophy the big one on the night so again obviously we didn't have any have any insight into that but it was ah quite amazing to have like three articles in a row on the crafty pint there were effectively about two people who then Cleaned up on the night.
Regional Brewery Achievements
00:02:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No when I spoke to max early last week He didn't he had no idea but he did say they were feeling really good about their beers the ones they'd entered you have that Bury, you know, probably pretty unknown outside their home state I think it's fair to say what was pretty cool as well. Is that the last time a brewery from SA won champion beer at the Indies? It was a mismatch And Owen was a mismatch and he collected the champion trophy. So it was likely to have passed the baton onto onto Max. And what was a nice little touch as well was that they hadn't actually entered this beer. But then I think at the last minute, it was like a bit of a call round from Sheriff at the Indies going, hey, look, you know, if anyone wants to enter any more beers, we've got a bit of an extension on submissions. And Owen was like, I think we should put this beer in and Max was like, yeah, I reckon it's pretty good. And there you go. And here it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Other
00:03:48
Speaker
Big wins on the night or sort of if you take a yeah If you take a bird's eye view of it and look over a couple of years Which I always like to do you have dangerous ales picked up a champion Trophy for that in the juicy hazy IPA category this year. They won the exact same trophy last year So obviously something's going on there in the south coast of New South Wales again There's there's just these sort of stories of consistency. They're starting to pop up Brook Lane have had a really strong two years on the awards front, starting with the Indies last year, kind of, and once again, one of their barrel-aged, wood slash wood-aged beers did incredibly
Moffat Beach's Continued Success
00:04:23
Speaker
well. Well, the same what beer that did incredibly well at the Habers. Yeah, that's a sign. I mean, it's interesting because it uses an amberana, which is a rare, I think, Brazilian, wood of Brazilian origin. A very perfume-y kind of wood.
00:04:36
Speaker
um So yeah and I think also whilst they didn't clean up the the Crafty Point sponsored award on the night was for traditional IPA and that went to Moffat Beach yeah for their trilogy Best Coast IPA which is one and a whole bunch of things and I didn't realise until the night that's the Moffat Beach's 17th indies trophy to date. yeah that which is quite remarkable considering they only started winning trophies at the Indies what four or five years ago so I mean that is a just incredible um rate of success um and it was you know I was I was lucky enough to be over there um first time it's been in WA and it was pretty awesome like there was obviously a lot of excitement from the WA crew in the room to be there um every single time any WA brewery got a gold or got you know shortlisted for
00:05:21
Speaker
and awards the whole place when nuts, um understandably, um less nuts sometimes when an east coast brewer won. But it was definitely yeah definitely a really great
WA Beer Scene Highlights
00:05:32
Speaker
awards night. so Yes, cool. are Any other big highlights from WA? Yeah, we did an event with um Found, um which is the brewery founded by Steve Finney, who some people will know, he's he worked for a whole bunch of sort of the key WA breweries, probably most notably Feral when they were doing a national expansion. um And one of his co-founders is Will Irving, who was the head brewer at Feral for years, so he didn't have entered their pop-up in Maylands, which was just great. Like, he was effectively the brewers talking to people in a room while sharing beers, and me asking questions and questions on the floor, and you think, oh, we'll try and keep the formalities to sort of an hour or so.
00:06:13
Speaker
and I reckon a good two and a half hours after we started there were still people sat really engaged asking questions. um Perhaps most most interesting on the night we decided to present a couple of beers blind early on which had both sort of meant something to Steve and Will from their sort of pre-found days and Will chose Cooper Sparkling. and no one had in the room had a clue what it was. That tons of change, Danny. But you try you try without knowing what it is, everyone was like, it's a saison. Yeah. And it really is a saison. Totally Wildflower has been saying that for about six years. Yeah. yeah So that was pretty cool. And I know you're off to WA in a couple of weeks and you've got an event coming up there as well. Yes, I just had a froth town. We're running an event with Fat Brew Club and campus and a couple of boroughs for Margaret River, Margaret River. So that'll be a lot of fun. You can go grab your tickets now if you get to be over in WA. It's a fun night. Again, centred around blind beer tasting as well, which is sort of our favourite way to drink beer is I feel like we're sort of Australia's long-running advocates of not knowing what beer you're drinking because it's the best way to drink beer. Yeah and I called in there on Saturday before flying back and they do some pretty amazing Asian sort of inspired food as well so that'll be served up on the night. Tickets still available with a discount for Crafty Cabal members as well.
00:07:36
Speaker
um and continuing the WA themed, I guess, events thing, we will be confirming um details and events at Rocky Ridge Brunswick ahead of their opening for our beer club members as well. So ah if you're one of our Crafty Cabal members, keep an eye out for that, that should be pretty
Interview with Callum Reeves
00:07:52
Speaker
cool. So this week's guest is Callum from Kaiju who, as well as co-founding that brewery with his brother, is also now chair of the IBA. How was it? Yes, I sat down with him and Craig Williams, who emcee'd the Indies last week at my Airbnb the morning after the awards, had a great chat about the awards, about all things IBA and some of the key issues for them such as exercise tax and a bit about Kaiju. And yeah, it was a really great chat.
00:08:19
Speaker
But before that, we've got a few quick interviews, a bit of reaction on the night from the Indies that we grabbed with some of the award winners after they walked off stage. So it's our third episode and we're already going for that experimental kind of podcast medium, proper documentary. So yeah, enjoy hearing from the big names on the night. If you're going to do it, do it properly. Cheers. Cheers.
00:08:47
Speaker
up in here with Ryan from Muckaroo Bearcote. What have you just won? We just won the champion WA brewery. How does it feel Ryan? You've been toiling way down south, about three and a half hours south of Perth. Yeah, it feels quite good. Just a good recognition of the work that we're all putting in as a team. It's nice to come up here and be able to collect an award. and I'm sure everyone else feels the same each other's age. Lindsay from Something Ground, you've had a really big night. Tell us more about it. Yes, really good night. We won Champion Victorian Brewery and Champion Lord Brewery and Champion... Don't force it. You won some stuff. It was for our draft. So earlier this week, you and I were on a table judging together. How did you find the West Australian judging experience?
00:09:35
Speaker
I found it. so Yeah, it was great. But I also found that tonight, especially with the awards, it was nice to see um like a lot of excitement. People get very into it and people are very happy to have this warm ceremony in their home state. I'm super excited to have with me Max and Owen from Uradla Brewery. These guys won. How many trophies tonight? Two, we've got the Champion Australian Independent Beer and the, what was the other one? The Champion Amber Dark Ale. Now guys, Max, you're 24, you're the head brewer, you're Adler.
Reflections on the Indies Awards
00:10:10
Speaker
Tell me, what's the secret to your success? Well, honestly, this beer here was a last minute decision, so happy we decided to enter it last minute. um Yeah, super fresh, made with love and passion, yeah.
00:10:30
Speaker
Hi, I'm here with Callum Reeves, the one of the founders of Kaiju Beer. We're on the the coast in Scarborough in Perth, the morning after the 2024 Indies, looking out over the ocean, sun is shining. Also here with Craig. and Craig, you hosted the Indies last night. I did. Thank you, James. I think you can probably all hear in our voices a little bit of... scratchiness and post-festivities kind of, I don't know, I'm going for a bit of a 70s cabaret singer, Shirley Bassey type vibe this morning, it suits you. Thank you. Thank you. Sultry. Callum, you're now also chair chair of the IBA. So this is your first Indies in the hot seats. How how was it?
00:11:09
Speaker
Oh, it was great. like It was an awesome night um for those with great projecting voices. um yeah no it was ah it was It was a lot of fun, great energy in the room. um and you know I guess last year we were together as well, but it is it does kind of bring it back to how nice it is to get a great group of people in a room together and celebrate. and um particularly nice um to be to be in WA where we don't get all of those brawlers over to over to the east coast every time and so generally I'll go to an event and know almost everyone there this is very different it was you know much much I knew a lot less people there and got to meet got to meet um a bunch of people and made new friends and I think it was a brilliant night
00:11:56
Speaker
We're always going to like that. So remember he wanted that line in the intro for the podcast, make friends along the way. Make friends along the way. And Cameron has done that. So there we go. The WA thing was noticeable in the night, wasn't it? It was just a huge amount of energy and noise. Whenever there was a WA brewery shortlisted, like it really sort of made a difference, I think. Oh, it does. Yeah, for sure. um And it was great that WA performed so well on the night. um Trophies and like clearly lots of gold medals and and there's a great camaraderie in the in the Western Australian brewing industry and having, you know, like really, really strong bodies like Waba and the South East Brewers Alliance.
00:12:37
Speaker
um who kind of work together to and and also in conjunction with the IBA um just like to reach those goals of you know like improving improving the the industry and um making the playing field a little better for for independent brewers. And before we get to the major winners, Kaiju performed well again. like You came off the back of the champion brewery trophy at Ebers and you're shortlisted for champion brewery again, is that right? that Yes, we would I think we were shortlisted for the champion Victorian brewery this year for for India. So that was really good. for Lots of gold medals. um I just had a look through the booklet. Lots of silver medals as well. um Yeah, it's good. Like, you know, it is good to see that.
00:13:23
Speaker
the quality that everything that we're working on at Kaiju to improve quality is you know is is working and we're keeping that quality up there.
Brewing Industry Challenges
00:13:32
Speaker
And so you and your brother are staying on good terms there's not going to be some sort of oasis type you know split splitting the Reeves brothers the quality is still up there. Oh you mean with the IBA and the like that sort of tension there. Yeah he always hit his head being turned yeah potentially. Yeah no I um no we were we were on very good terms um I love working with Nat. yeah It's awesome, and especially especially since we don't have a we don't label bottles anymore. like Honestly, that was the only thing that but ever put tension between us and the business. I wanted labels on the necks of the bottles and and it just was it was a nightmare.
00:14:08
Speaker
Now Craig, there's been some mention of, I guess, some minor technical issues last night, your first hosting gig at the Indies. You had a great sort of cabaret end of peer look going on, but there were a few challenges to overcome. Yeah, definitely. And I'm glad that you brought that up, James, because I don't know that anyone would have really noticed. Really undetectable, except to the professional ear, I think. yeah No, certainly we um we were in the the Rendezvous Hotel in Perth, where they held the WA Beer and Brewing Conference earlier that day. So the room was was full of brewers. And my understanding is that there was a very short turnaround time between the end of the conference and the Indies Awards. So I think maybe the the venues maybe... either didn't allow enough time or didn't have things set up properly but you know at any rate we basically had no audio for the first half an hour or so I think. yeah I think at one point I was trying to ah conduct some sort of mass kumbaya with the the audience there to let's bring everyone down to a kind of a whisper level and then we'll be able to talk about these these trophies you want to give out but thankfully it all came good. We got microphones under control and
00:15:20
Speaker
and happily wrangled back control of the room soon after. so And particularly like shout out to Bronte, who like lost her voice um and powering through without, um you know, without that, without the the speakers working properly. So so bront Bronte O'Donohue, my co-host, she did an amazing job and from Eagle Bay Brewing. The amazing Farrah Fawcett hair. Yeah, I think we look good. I'm the blue velvet jacket. I was like, if you're going to wear blue velvet once in your life, now's the time. But, uh, you know, is it like that was as our, both of us, uh, we were first time hosts of the Indies and I'm, uh,
00:16:04
Speaker
I'm confident we'll never ever be invited. No, I hope not at all. We get it. We get another gig, but, uh, it was, it was a lot of fun. And like you were saying, Callum, you know, I've, I've been in the industry for a while now with, with different things. And, um, for me, it's all about the people and it's all about the vibe and the energy and, and, you know, when you're on the stage and you're trying to, uh, present something, that's what I feed off. So I'm, I'm getting a lot of that. That. excitement and, you know, trepidation from the crowd. And and you're right, every time there was a a Western Australian brewery mentioned, the room, it was just in uproar. So it's super exciting to be part of that. It's a fat brew club sing to bring the roof down every time they got a mention, which was, and their crowd got bigger. It's like they were recruiting a cheer squad on the night. So well done. Another big thing I love about the beer industry is is that you can have all of these these different
00:17:01
Speaker
sort of models and the size brewery categories is is a great example of that where, you know, there was, I think it was Tiny Fish who won the contract brewing. You know, they're literally a few mates who have kind of decided we love doing this. It's that that quintessential story of of brewing, you know, in other people's venues. They hope one day to have their own sort of tap room and so on. But yeah, to then be recognized at this level is fantastic right through to the the much larger, you know, brick lanes and stomping grounds and kai juice and so on. but Yeah, is it there's there's a home for everyone. yeah what and and um And then the other major wins, so Seven Mile from the ah for Northern New South Wales. um They've been winning trophy after trophy for their beers, especially their West Coast IPA. I'm assuming that's probably what I was drinking afterwards off tap. But this is the first time they've won a brewery trophy. And then Boundary Island, tiny operations south of Perth. They've, I think they've entered like three or four awards and always won like Best New Brewery or now Best Brewery or several
00:18:00
Speaker
beer title, Hersey Royal Beer Awards, the AOBAs, they got Best Newcomer at both of those. And yeah, they I think they opened in 2022 in Mandra. um So in the space of such a short time, they put a massive stamp on the industry and and the scene. Yeah, it's really good. Like um there's a lot of new names in there and like all names that you haven't seen too often before, you know, but you've got you've got the w really really like the strong ones in there and like, you know, Stompo's in there. and yeah And yeah, it's great to see like this this new crop of of breweries coming through and making great beers yeah and um and, you know, and just keep keeping the the industry invigorated. Yeah.
00:18:44
Speaker
Well I thought as well and Alice Springs, so Kyle was down from and from Alice, um and yeah I stood near him when they won a gold for their specific ale, and um um was like, oh you know, is that your biggest setting? Because I actually thought we'd go well in the reduced alcohol category and then low and behold territory mid got a gold as well, so that's the first two golds ever for any brewery out of Northern Territory, so so like you know he was pretty Pretty stoked. Can I just ask you, James, is it pronounced specific ale? That beer? Is that how it's described? I have to say, I'm so glad that Brontee read them. Did she go specific ale? She read it exactly that way, specific ale. But for some reason, it was one of those beers in my head. I fired her at it.
00:19:28
Speaker
Specificale. I realized that would have been a complete mess up. It was locked in my head that way. that yeah but Definitely specificale. And from an IBA perspective, regard it as a successful awards night then? Oh, I think absolutely. um to have you know like like That's what it's all about. It's about championing great beer, and um we were tasting the beers there on the taps and you know and in the cans and stuff, and like the beers are tasting great. That's what it's about. It's about improving the quality um and giving breweries an opportunity to promote. so and Both of those things have... you know it's
00:20:18
Speaker
it's done really well. It's done really well across a lot of different breweries. um and And the percentage of medals was up as well. but So I think it was, it's get like I think it was close to 80%. Yeah, or maybe eighty are there like or 88% medaled this year. So yeah, that's amazing. I haven't looked at the gold medal percentages yet, but um but it just it just shows that but quality is improving and and this is how this is how we do it. And it's also through sharing You know sharing information it's through the idea but the resources of the idea hasn't that's not just a just a you know shameless plug like that's that is absolutely absolutely true like.
00:21:00
Speaker
and we're getting involved in things like bea and stuff like that you know, it's just always maintaining the quality programs within your breweries. This is a massive part of it. And that was one of the things I guess a few hours prior to the award was the IBA announcing the Craft Beer Strategy for WA in partnership with Wobba and Deepa. Yes, I think that's what it is. Deepa, Deepa, Deepa Dan and the South West Brewers Alliance. So yeah, since there's a lot of, I guess, a lot more collaboration happening. but all in between the national and the the state level. So that's what I'm that's what I'm really like stoked about in WA like and having those all of these bodies really like coming together and going we want to make we want to
00:21:46
Speaker
have a great kind of craft beer scene here, independent beer scene, craft beer scene. I think Wava includes big eyes as well, but um but yeah, like working together, you can improve this industry. And it's a great example to other States, yeah um you know, like. Obviously in Victoria it's pretty rough at the moment and you know we're we're finding it hard to get any get any love from from government. Well it was the same when we did Good Beer Week years ago. i mean We built this ah festival that was regarded as you know by people from you Brooklyn Brewery in Japan as the best beer week in the world. in this like
00:22:19
Speaker
I'm not interested. yeah yeah Come on, Victoria, get but yeah get behind your brewers. Yeah, exactly. yeah calen Can you explain to me just, and maybe more for the listeners, the there relationship between, I guess there's the IBA and then WABBA, which is the Western Australian Brewers Association, because that does seem to be, things run a little differently in WA than they do in the rest of the country in terms of that state and for the national level. Look, I don't know the ins and outs of how WABBA
00:22:49
Speaker
operates with with the WA government. yeah um And I know that when when Kylie came into the role at the IBA, the relationship was not great with Waba. But over the course of time, just building trust and and you know that communication and working together, you can achieve great things. Waba is a great local champion for their for their local breweries doing great work. um and Um, Kylie has, uh, really good, uh, really good, uh, experience in advocating to government and and that sort of thing. And she knows, she just knows how to, how to speak to, speak to the decision makers and, um, to, you know, looking for the win-win. And, uh, and so I think that's how it really works, really works well together. Yeah. And and I guess it's also, you know, the three of us are over from, well, Victoria and and Queensland, but.
00:23:47
Speaker
you you kind of you come over here to Perth for something like these awards or the conference and you do realise just how far away it is. A couple of time zones even at this time of year. The country and and I guess you can really see that there would be a need even within the this little pocket of West Australia you've got you know from here down to Albany with Boston Brewing Co and so on there's such a ah big geographic spread to have its own association that sort of champions more local interests and so on for the brewers is probably a really strong thing to have. Absolutely and I think that they also have ah you know experiencing that through like wineries are a big thing here but but they've also got the
00:24:29
Speaker
ah bywe steep best campaign which is which is massive they have you know like 80% recognition of and and people actually going out and you know looking at looking packages going does it have the biostate best um and making decisions based on that and that's a that's a great lesson for us you know in the in the IBA for for the indie seal and just that how that kind of trust mark can be so powerful. So, um yeah, now they've they've got that kind of, you know, it's kind of built into the... Proculism done well. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And it probably is a part of being quite a long way away from, um you know, the the bulk of the population the of the country, um really looking at looking after each other. when i said Last night, really think last night was a really great awards night. So I think that's going to help in terms of, yeah, sort of of that camaraderie across the country.
00:25:20
Speaker
Um, we'll take a quick break now. Catch up with, you met this guy Milo. Catch up with Milo. I've heard of him. I think he's a little, a little over the top. A little over the top. Um, and then we're back for a chat, I guess about your new role, the IBA and a bit more about Kaiju and your plans for the future, I guess. Excellent. right
00:25:45
Speaker
Hello listeners, thank you for joining me. And once again, I'm joined by my very good friend, Milo Applegarden. Milo, welcome back to the CraftyPod podcast. Thank you, William. It's great to take some time off from the celebrity gossip column to join you on the pod today and talk about three of my favourite things, beer, movies, and looking at myself in the little window of the Zoom call here. God looking good. It's been a massive 10 years since my friends at Blackmans Brewery first opened their doors in Twelkey in 2014, mate. Just to put that period of time into context, you know, the Best Actor award that year, Oscar, went to, of all people, Matthew McConaughey. The top three beers in the Gabs Hottest 100 were from feral brewing, someone called Stone and Wood, and Four Pines.
00:26:37
Speaker
and believe it or not the biggest thing on the internet was Grumpy Cat. It just shows how far the world has come and now the world of beer will be descending upon Torquay and Blackmansbury for the Point Break Invitational Saturday the 17th of August coming up very very soon. um Now to get us in the mood for the event the last few weeks you and I have been talking about beer and movies and how they compare together I'd love to know what beer you've got in store for us today William. Well Milo, one of the breweries that are making the trek down to the Bellarine Queensland's own Range Brewing and I've picked out their Disco Pale Ale. Let's give it a try hey.
00:27:18
Speaker
Oh wow, my word William, that is a beer that literally takes flight from the very first sip. I'm getting this wonderfully soft pillowy mouth feel with just that hint of turbulence that lets you know that at any moment things could go completely out of control. Of course, I'm thinking of a film with razor sharp comedy timing, punchy one liners and super smashable quotes. It could only be the American classic Flying High. Surely you can't be serious.
00:27:52
Speaker
I am serious Will, and don't call me Shirley. Now, if there's anyone listening who does know how to fly a plane, I'd highly recommend hightailing it yourself down to Torquay on Saturday the 17th of August for the Blackmans Brewery Point Break Invitational. All the best brewers are going to be there. Lots of beer, lots of games, music and movies, fun to be had. but Tickets are on sale now at blackmansbrewery.com.au Fantastic, see you there. Cheers.
00:28:26
Speaker
There we go. um you want to say Do you want to say something about the 10 years? well I was going to say, so obviously hopefully awards last night. um i you know, planned for weeks to get to that point, I had my detailed notes, we were all sorted. And then the evening went to hell on a handcart pretty quick with the microphone issues and so on. But I did forget to mention and Kylie Lethbridge will be at me if I don't mention it. But last night was the 10th anniversary of the Indies Awards, which started falling off a decade ago, as the CBA is the Crap Bureau Awards under the old
00:29:04
Speaker
was it craft beer industry association yeah craft beer industry association the cba's so 10 years cba's would drop the eye for the awards part yes really messy people's heads uh but the yeah 10 years of of the indies awards which i think in itself is a pretty remarkable milestone and uh i've even got they gave me the um the champion beer history, the very first, is who's a trivia question for you, Callum, the very, very first 2015 winner of the champion beer for the CBAs. Can you have a crack? I'll give you a clue. Yeah. It was originally designed as a Gabs beer and it was by a brewery. ws date Oh, single fin. Ooh.
00:29:53
Speaker
build up but I'll give you another clue. okay I'll give you another clue. A brewery that was independent then was then no longer independent and is now independent again. Oh, okay. Um, was it Pothol? Feral Watermelon Warhead. Watermelon Warhead. So close. We got there. I bet that was really fun for all the listeners. It was fun for me. Yeah. Feral Watermelon Warhead was 2015, which Watermelon Warhead is a special beer for for me as well, because it was a Gabs beer and Feral famously used to use Gabs Festival as a bit of a testing ground for new ideas and fun new beers.
00:30:33
Speaker
I think you spoke to Will or just Steve from Foun and obviously Will's now over there. um Little Creatures were the second winner in 2016 with their Pilsner, again WA smashing it. We've got Dayton with their Baltic porter in 2017, Mismatch Laga in 2018, having flashbacks now. Mismatch Laga was picked up by Owen who picked up the trophy for Uradl last night. Look at this, this is the incestuous craft beer world coming to life right in front of us. 2019 Dayton with their, again, so they've won it twice, with their triple dry hopped double red-eye rye. 2020 range with Fahrenheit. 2021 blaster with blaster basin. 22 White Bay with White Bay Lager and last year was Dollar Bill's brewing.
00:31:20
Speaker
dollar bill brewing with gold teeth. so Pretty eclectic range of beers there you know. It sure is. It's a real mix and yeah and you've got and then obviously now you add 2024 Uradlar Brewing with their red IPA, the very first red IPA to to earn that on it. So yeah what a fantastic um little alumni of beers. So WA have had that that's four, yeah three wins in 10 years. was the little Would that little creatures have been a WA one? 2016 I reckon. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Would have been. That's pretty cool. So Dayton are the only double winner from there, I think, as well. But that's when it was the craft beer industry association and they were still allowed in, even though they weren't independent. So yeah, it's reached. Yeah. mo preach We're with an asterisk now. Yeah. I thought that was quite cool. That's a time capsule of craft beer in 10 beers and an award. So I think all of those breweries should rebrew those beers. We'll do a little gift pack. We'll send it out. We'll get out the stock of the shops and so on.
00:32:18
Speaker
I don't know what you think. Sounds great. Let's do it. Only if someone's actually put that idea to me, I completely forgot it a few months ago, to do like an OG craft, like National Festival, where we bring back some of the absolute icons of craft beer we go and re-brew them. And if a brewer is no longer around, someone else does it for them. And you just do like tap takeovers at a few of the key old i would sobox venue venues venues around the country. On the end. Yes, it's a boat rocker and a bit of a brainchild there anyway. Good idea. Getting that back on the to-do list has slipped off. Anyway, Cal, so you've been in the role of IBA chair for a few weeks now, a couple of months? A couple of months, yeah. I think since May. And you've been on the board for some time before that? Yes, a couple of years before that. I do forget the years, but yeah.
00:33:07
Speaker
um It is an awesome honour and I said this in my speech last night but I don't think there is any greater honour in our industry than to to serve on the board of the IBA. I really enjoy being on the board. I love the ability to have those conversations with really
IBA's Advocacy Focus
00:33:29
Speaker
great people. like I mean, it's always been great people on the on the board. And, ah you know, just to and to learn from to learn from peers and like, you know, like in the past, Rich Watkins, Rich Adamson,
00:33:42
Speaker
and Pete from Wayward. and like it's been ah It's been a ah great group of people to to learn from and to get ideas from. We've got that great history. um And now this new board, new constitution. So it's a bigger board, seven people, me like an incredibly diverse group of skill sets, which is great. um And and it's really it's really good to be able to to lead that to be kind of leading that group in at the moment, ah bringing together those skill sets, understanding where everyone's
00:34:18
Speaker
strengths are and um and there's some like, you know, really, really great stuff coming out. And I guess that the hard part for the IBA is just maintaining what are what are the those key focus areas because the team so small um is like, we really have to be focused. Just a couple of things and what would be the two key things that you know. I don't want the focus for you stepped up to chair or you come in as chair and gone know this is what we need to do. Well I obviously the most important thing is that we is that we're making a difference for.
00:34:55
Speaker
the members. And so that comes in the form of it's it's largely advocacy. So it's advocating for excise reform um and market dominance. So like talking to ACCC and local members and like, you know, federal member statements and all that sort of sort of thing to to try and just um get them on board moving on with reality. It's not everyone's like, we're in this industry and we we think about it every day, but it's not like an MP thinks a lot of a lot of the decision makers
00:35:40
Speaker
are assumed that there's a different kind of playing field for the big guys compared to independent breweries like Australian owned independent breweries in Australia and it's just not like you know we we all get treated the same but there's this assumption that that somehow there's a there's a whole different world for for us and somehow we're not paying tax or something like we're not paying as much exercise that like um There are also a lot of, a lot of people are surprised to learn that there isn't a body for beer like there is for wine, you know, wine Australia. There's no beer Australia. And that's something where we're, we're working on as well. So the big ones are, um, market dominant, like, so working on market dominance and exercise reform. And by market dominance you meet, we're trying to free up access to taps, to shelf space, to fridges, the many which are dominated by a couple of breweries. And those conversations have gone quite high up the chain. I think, was there not, delegation spoke to Mark Dreyfus and MPs earlier in the year? Yeah, absolutely. And Carly's been speaking to the key decision makers and we were pretty disappointed that
00:36:49
Speaker
the recent or the last budget, nothing really came out of that. Well I remember back in January chatting to Carter, he was like I think there's going to be some good news coming on this front and then the weeks passed and then it was like oh no. Yeah, look, we did we did have the confidence um until probably about a week out and we hadn't heard anything. And that was, you know, it was a real it was a real shame. but it Media release is through the shredder. Yeah. that's It was a new media release yeah because it wasn't it wasn't just nothing came through, but it was actually worse than that. yeah it was being It was being put into the budget as alcohol tax is ah is a revenue line to to
00:37:26
Speaker
to pay for certain things and that's completely different and unusual language and there's nowhere else in the world that that does that kind of you know the the excise system that we have and treating it as a you know it pays for something it's like these are small businesses these are independent family-owned businesses that are really employing people like we're not sending we're not making huge profits and sending them overseas not sending them anywhere, there aren't huge profits. funding yeah and they This is money that that goes back into the economy. that we that local economy and That's We're employing people. We're employing people at a much higher rate then ah than a macro brewer does.
00:38:07
Speaker
you know per litre of beer salt, we employ far more. So, yeah. And I just, I just make for people that understand it how big an imposition exercise tax is on a small brewery. And, and i I guess the difference it makes when twice a year exercise tax goes up, like, you know, how, how big a cost is it to your business and, you know, what difference does it make it every time that twice a year, the The rates change. Oh, dude. So I think when I started, ah when we started the business, look, but I might be wrong in the detail of the numbers, but I think that the package excise tax was about $38 a litre of alcohol. It's now ticked over 60, I think, um in this next, in this next hike, um which happens, yeah, it happens in February and August every year, and it's in line with CPI.
00:39:00
Speaker
and so No matter what's happening in the wider economy. Yeah, yeah that's right. um It doesn't matter if the CPI is related to rents and ah you know just stuff that's completely unrelated to beer, but you put that CPI increase onto onto the excise and that feeds into the next inflation. like you know like It's it's kind of a self-defeating kind of a kind of a thing. um And its it's, you know, it sounds obvious, but it's you obviously got cost of excise going up, cost of ingredients going up. The the every the cost of reducing a a can of beer is is as high as it's ever been. But the retail price of that beer has not gone up in comparison. and So it's sort of.
00:39:49
Speaker
you You just need your own. That's right. Well, that's the second level of imposition because we have that extra cost and everything else costs at least as much or more. Generally, it's a lot more at the moment. um And so you you've got to decide whether to pass that on or not. And if you pass it on, it's that, it's like, you know, it's it's all the work that goes into changing the pricing of your of your product. And then it's the communicating that to your customer. And then it's, you know, it's customers getting upset about it potentially. um They understand, but but like, no one wants to hear.
00:40:26
Speaker
No one wants to know that their price is going up. I get the letters from our suppliers saying, you know, we've held on as long as we can, but it's going up 5%. I said that six months ago. ah nothing But yeah, so those prices are going up. and The costs are going up, but retail prices, yeah, we we're finding it difficult to pass on on that full thing. So that just squeezes our margins. yeah um And then we're also finding and If you do pass the cost on, then you know you lose customers. It's possible that you'll be children that lose volume. Potentially not willing to pay for it. Yeah, that's right. And the and the current the current market is a little bit, I think, trading down. They're spending a little bit less on ah on ah on a six-pack or a four-pack of of beer. and i want to go to backflation just top of book I want to go back briefly. to you You mentioned you know a big part of the IBA's
00:41:21
Speaker
mission is to basically communicate these challenges and and make the decision makers in in parliament aware of these are the challenges that we're facing and these are the inequities and this is the way that we're being treated in the same way as the macro brewers and so on. I remember Sabrina talking about Sabrina Coons talking about um how IBA members can actually be a really important part of that mission. So you guys have produced kind of templates and letters and and things that, you know, your Adler brewing in their small little population can get used to engage their local MP and just to start having those conversations because you obviously can't be everywhere at once, but
00:42:01
Speaker
I think together we can, right? Absolutely. um you're The local members will only act on on what their voters are telling them, really. Like if you've got five different brewers and all the and all the five different breweries in your electorate and they all send a letter or they get together and say, hey, can we have a meeting with you? And and that sort of thing. um Just sending a letter is is a is a big deal. they They kind of have to deal with that. They have to respond. Um, and, and then that gets sent up the chain and, and, you know, Kylie and Sabrina are very, very aware of the workings of that. And, um, you know, and they say, this is, you know, this is ex-minister's, um, area and like, we'd like you to speak to the minister and, you know, even if it's not the same party, they, they have to go to the minister and, um, you know, it's, that's powerful stuff. They're only going to make these changes if they're hearing about it. It has to be, it has to be a B in their bonnet. you know i got Can it benefit your cause if like.
00:42:59
Speaker
public like beer drinkers who care, get on board as well. Absolutely. and how How can they do that? How can some of the passionate beer lovers help you cause with you know pushing for change? Yeah, well, it is it's um talking to the talking to the members. It's so it's also going and buying buying our our products, yeah looking for the NDC on your can purchase and and asking for it at ah at a pub. um it these are these are always like and it's you know they're all little things and you've got to remember them at the time and that sort of thing but um but it's it's not that hard to to send uh you know to send a letter i i remember when um when deeds were setting up their their brew house and having a lot of trouble getting that through council i lived in the area so i'm like cool i can i can write an email yeah to the local council to say this is a great idea it would be great to have it in the area and but it just it
00:43:53
Speaker
that took five years or something couldn't have been good for you know and and that's what happens you know you can see what what has happened through just that delay and like the bureaucracy and making making sort of making things hard that was at a planning level but you know it just it's all kind of would I would say it's my own personal experience working with with Moffat Beach Brewery previously and you know we did exactly that. We we sent a letter to the local MP, ah just an email, sent it through, which I think was a template given to us by the so IBA.
00:44:25
Speaker
you know It was so easy just to cut and paste off a beach, whatever it might be, and send it through. We had a meeting with with him, sat down, and um you're exactly right in saying that all of these challenges and headwinds are completely obvious to all of us because we're living and breathing it every single day. But these guys have no idea. yeah No idea. And I think at the time we were talking about cancer warnings on the the beer labels or or something along those lines. I know there was there was a moving government to talk about putting cancer warnings on beer and we were sort of arguing against that yeah and why that's. And i yeah, we had a very open and and honest discussion with our member and I felt like he walked away from that knowing a hell of a lot more about our industry and the impact that we have on the local community. yeah
00:45:13
Speaker
And I think it's just if every of every one of the members can just spend that five minutes and reach out to them, they might find that it has a
Support for Local Breweries
00:45:22
Speaker
good result. And yeah, without that communication, why would ah why would a local member understand that if they ask you to make a change to your packaging, just how much that costs? Yeah. um You know, it's like changing all the plates, it's getting all of the stuff printed and then the next change comes along and you're left with X amount of, you know, cans or boxes or wraps or whatever it is. It's great to walk the member into the the room where you've got the 20 pallets of 7000 cans. eat yes so I can't use anything. Yeah, no, that's ah that's a lot of cans. That's a lot of cans. a lot of cans
00:45:55
Speaker
Um, and that was, yeah, so, uh, Kylie had, um, some of the Fazans representatives from New Zealand came to Melbourne a few weeks ago and she took them around to a few of the breweries just to say, these are the, these are the people, these are the the people who own the businesses. This is a couple of like, a couple of different scales of businesses. I think they went to Bad Shepherd, Brick Lane, maybe, um, Hob Nation. And just to get that understanding, it's like talking to the owners, seeing the operation. It's, you know, like we're not Frito-Lay or something here. Like, it's like, you know, we're just, we're trying to, we're trying to make it work. Yeah. yeah But and I think that almost works on a consumer level as well. or Once, you know,
00:46:40
Speaker
one over a lot of people on the power of liquid and being something new and the quality and the flavors or whatever but I think for a lot of people and like the next maybe the level of growth for craft being in terms of audience isn't necessarily bringing people in for new flavours or whatever, because we're kind of that's out there now to an extent. It's bringing people in and going, oh, so you live locally. Oh, that that's that's so-and-so's niece or whatever working behind the bar. you'reri You're part of the local community yeah and taking them through it going, oh, I knew there was a local brewery around, but I didn't know this was actually how it happened. I mean, when I first moved to Australia, I'd never really been to a brewery in my life, walked into Mountingote for the first time and you're like,
00:47:19
Speaker
so that's how they make beer and it's just here and it's like it's you know and I think there's still a lot of people haven't had that experience so it's it's with members and also you know bringing people in to see um coming to the cantina and going oh amazing pizzas lovely place and there's some beer made at the back and it's just it's like a Yes, local experience you knowday culture that like, yeah, that's what that's what people are coming into those spaces. to kind And it's funny, I think we got really close to that as awful as it is, but like through COVID and there was such a strong focus on like your local business, keeping local alive.
00:47:54
Speaker
hashtag cro point And I think there was a wonderful movement then around support your local cafe, your grocer, your, your brewery. And i it's, as you know, everything's opened up again. We need to kind of keep that momentum going and. Yeah. um Now, I appreciate we've had you been chatting to you for probably that sort of 40 minutes now. I haven't really talked about kaiju. You celebrated your 10th birthday not that long ago. So, you know, but what what's what's what's new at kaiju apart from that talking about his beloved lager east anyway. There's nothing new about lager east. It's all about lager east. Didn't you know didn' you get a couple of golds for lagers again last night?
00:48:35
Speaker
Um, we got a gold for, um, crisp, which is our mid strength. It's currently just a tap product. yeah Um, can't we got, I'll just, I'll just search that up. you don Thank you. Thanks. I was going to wear my Seveser as a new craft t-shirt until I was, until I was at the, you're at a little wanting tribute to you. You've got a God. What an IPA. You got the dank Shelbyville. Oh go be yeah. Yeah. That was on Danklord as well. Danklord picked one else. Maybe it was No Largs. Aftermath and Danklord. Aftermath draft and record. Yeah, that's good. And look, that's how that is our first product. You know, that's our first beer. Still getting golds. Love it. Chris. And yeah, finalist for champion. between So No Largs at all. But anyway, it was Chris. And that's something that
00:49:27
Speaker
We kind of just did that. And that was it at beer and pizza one day. And he's like, I've got to drive. And so he just poured soda water and it's a backseat into a glass. And he was just like, all right.
00:49:43
Speaker
There you go. It's your secret brewing tips from the pros. Yes. If you if you want to lower out, you just add more soda water. Yeah, that's exactly right. yeah We'll do it. It's the industry's secret. Yeah. Well, not anymore. I can't water things down too much
Kaiju's Anniversary and Future Plans
00:50:03
Speaker
anymore. for um But aside from that, so how are things tied to you to celebrate your 10th birthday? yeah what's What's on the horizon for the business? So, yeah, 10 years old and. um Hard iced tea is coming soon. Not sure. Might have missed the boat. Seltzers and iced teas. Definitely looking at at sort of new product development a lot, but also just focusing back in on the on the brands that made us. And Aftermath is a really good example of that. It's like a beer that continues
00:50:37
Speaker
to grow. It's a small, a small base, but you know, there's not too many more range double IPAs. We make it all year round and it sells all year. It's had a great aftermath, you could say. Yes. and it before ah math and so sorry I actually just grown it. Terrible. That was actually worse than you guys. sad. um But a bit it's also, ah do you think it might be benefiting from a bit bit of a swing back to more classic IPAs? Like we had, you know, you were talking about um the respect you had for the marketers describing having all the different terms for hating and juicing stuff. And people have really got, you know, into that for a while. And that has been to with a swing back, I think, towards bitterness and, you know, there's more alternatives.
00:51:21
Speaker
Yeah, I was even chatting to one of the hops, John Bosch from Yakima Chief Hopson. He was saying that seeing some of the older school hops coming back now because people are wanting that more dank, that more old or that more sort of pioneer sort of business. And maybe that's shining a spotlight on some of your IPAs a bit more again. Yeah, for sure. um I think we learned the lessons of the of the hazy ah IPAs and like how to get the that level of expression. um Like our metamorphosis is a really good example of um just how tastes have changed. Ten years ago, metamorphosis was the West Coast west coast IPA of the time. and um It was a dark and mold bill, um lots of dank or lots of, you know, like the piney, like this spicy kind of um hops in there. And over time,
00:52:13
Speaker
we didn't We didn't change as much over time, but last year we just made we made the decision to, we had to change the packaging.
00:52:22
Speaker
but we would ah We wanted to take crystal malt out of it um because it was just, I think it was affecting shelf life. And we thought, change the alcohol percentage down to 6.2%, makes it a little bit more palatable and taking the taking the sweetness and the, and the body out of the molecule, but also using some some new hop characters as well. So making it a little bit more tropical whilst maintaining that that sort of dynamic connection to the the old absolutely. absolutely and And so you've got some of those aromas, but not the sweetness kind of levels that you and how did it go to this quite a big move to like change a core range beer that
00:53:04
Speaker
yeah Is beloved beloved, I guess, a genuine, more hardened craft beer drinkers, was did it go okay? Did you get a bit of a blowback? Or people will have very little blowback. I'll you know be honest, like, I think we had maybe three people sort of reach out and and be disappointed about it. um And um yeah, I mean, it's we we appreciate that we loved we loved the beer as well. And like, i would still I would still love that beer, but we wanted the beer to be, to arrive to people as as as good as we could as we could make it. So they go to the shop and buy it and get it home and it tastes and it tastes how we want it to taste. And yeah, that was, it not much blowback on it. I think it's been it's been good from a,
00:53:52
Speaker
um from SARS perspective, it's sort of, it's not hugely grown out of, you know, but it's definitely kind of grown a little bit, which is great. So Callum, if economy does take a turn for the better, like we're hoping we will do in the next six to 12 months, your dream for Kaiju, where are we seeing Kaiju go next? um i I'm liking consolidating on our on our core brands at the moment, so just a bit more invigoration on on Crush, Metamorphosis, Pleasure Cruise, and also Growing Surveyor. We've got that capacity to do so now. The brewe is the brewery is is set up to grow.
00:54:39
Speaker
um and Yeah, and that's that's fun. well i We all love the challenge of making great beer this like consistently all the time. That's actually the probably the the best, the most fun challenge for for us as brewers. Not that I'm an actual brewer. but um You did do the neck labels though. Oh, yes. That's anti-brewing. ah And so, yeah, like new products and that sort of stuff. But, the you know, um when I go home and and grab a beer, it's almost always a crush, pleasure cruise or space or metamorphosis, you know.
00:55:18
Speaker
ah If I take an aftermath home, then I don't want to take a full pack of aftermath. Let's just put it that way. But you're still drinking your own beers, which is a good thing, mate. I can afford to drink my own beers. And then in terms of, yeah you've got the venue, you've got national ranging to an extent, I guess. So is that something you focused on or is it more about wanting to win over more of Melbourne or more if you like Canada Sea. I think at the moment, um sticking a bit more to local Melbourne, Sydney and Queensland and you know the other markets are ah good, but we I think we definitely need to push harder in Melbourne and really kind of win over
00:56:06
Speaker
much more and and working on getting into those pubs where that where there are the contracts and sort of you know getting the getting some of the taps and getting into the fridges and and that sort of thing. you know it's um It's all hard work at the moment and we celebrate the little wins as we do as an industry. So yeah, that's that's where we're going and I you know i still love doing it. I think I'll continue to quite some time. That's good to hear. Well a massive congratulations to the IBA for the the 10th edition of the indies awards and uh which just so happened to coincide with the 10th anniversary of kaiju something going on there and i'm not i'm gonna find out more um but massive work by kylie uh sabrina chev the whole team at
00:56:54
Speaker
at the IBA and Kelly said she produced 471 slides for the awards yesterday. It must have been a fun afternoon. Yeah, there it was there was a lot of work and i and whilst I know I think some of the team were feeling a a little flat with some of the issues that happened at the start of the night, but I think the response from the audience who were amazingly patient and understanding, um and they once we sort of got things going, they really responded in kind. And I think just, yeah, again, a massive congratulations to the whole team. They've worked their ass off and it was a fantastic award. Yes, absolutely stoked. Yeah, they do a great job.
00:57:33
Speaker
and Yeah, thanks for joining us. and I know both of you got to get flights in the next few hours. Yeah, we're both trying to upgrade seats, but the the internet's down crowd strikes. yeah you yeah secret like f Awesome. hours Thanks for your time, Callum. See you back on the East Coast sometime soon. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks a lot. Cheers. Cheers.
00:57:58
Speaker
The Crafty Pint Podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials. We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, events, or festivals we run without the support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries, or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with the Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes. And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer lovers, the Crafty Cabal. Visit craftycabal.com for more. And until next time, drink good beer.