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After the Interview: Robert and Dan Cramer
88 Plays10 months ago
In this bonus discussion, we react to our episode 193 interview with Robert and Dan Cramer of Cramer and Associates.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:03
Speaker
It's time for the Uncommonwell bonus content.
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello everybody, this is Phillip Ramsey with the Uncommon Wealth Podcast. I'm your host, and so is Aaron Kramer. Gotta love that when I throw it up a little bit. Alright, here we go. So we're doing a bonus recap for Kramer and Associates, Dan and Robert. Dan and Robert. Wow, that was really interesting to me.
Origins of Kramer and Associates
00:00:30
Speaker
Dude, that was fun. I think I counted, I think I got goosebumps like six times. Wow. I don't know if I ever got goosebumps.
00:00:35
Speaker
But I love the transition from how Dale and George started from absolutely nothing. You have no idea what that was like. Delmer, Dale and George and Don. Okay. So there's four of them. I know we didn't get into that, but there's- No, we didn't. Yeah. Interesting. Tell me more about that. So there, cause there's five brothers and four of the brothers.
00:01:01
Speaker
started Kramer, Kramer Associates. Who wasn't Kramer Associates, Kramer Brothers. Kramer Brothers. I only remember it as Kramer Associates, but.
00:01:10
Speaker
Yeah, we basically talked about Delmer, which is Robert's dad. Yep, Del. And then, no, Delmer, like, because Dale, and then there's Delmer. Okay, so Delmer. Yep, and then George, which is my grandpa, would be Dan's dad. Dad. Okay, wow.
Transition to the Next Generation
00:01:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:31
Speaker
So here's the deal. At the end of the day, I love when somebody creates something from nothing. Yeah. And then you can see it second generation happening now. Seems like they're thriving. Yeah. Like so good. And then I'm going to just fast forward, just high level. And then now they're in the point where they're kind of transitioning to the next generation. Holy buckets.
00:01:49
Speaker
But kudos to them for seeing the writing on the wall and seeing like the two fathers letting go of that responsibility earlier than they probably wanted to. Yeah. Holy cow. Like I can't tell you how hard that's going to be when you and I are going to be looking at the next generation on Commonwealth and be like, I hope that they run it. Take over your baby. Yes, because I think the thought is like, I want them to run it the same way I do. But really, you don't want that.
00:02:14
Speaker
I want you to run this in a different way so that it takes on a new life and it can breathe in more. But like they said, the vision and the character and all the core values that we've started, it never changes. Yeah, I think it's like the G, you know, the originals, the OGs, I think it's the please care as much as we care.
00:02:37
Speaker
Cause you know, like we talked about, like, I mean, well, you know, boys from Missouri grew up in the depression. I remember hearing stories about my dad, my grandpa walking to school with no shoes, no winter time, all that stuff.
00:02:51
Speaker
And then they built up a really good company that made a really good living for their families. Yeah. I thought it was interesting and sad that they don't know the history behind the union to the employee owned, but that had to be scary. Yeah. Scary because the unions were so powerful at that time. And then transitioning just to do something uncommon. They're just a different path. Yeah. Had to be scary. Oh my gosh. But they did it. Yeah. I mean, I know I'm biased because they're my family, but I just could only
00:03:22
Speaker
I would be so scared to be in front of my grandpa. And my grandpa, he had said, George, said one of his brothers was actually more athletic than him. And so my grandpa was pretty athletic playing football, Mizzou. But those are some boys I would not want to tussle with. But you're dealing with a totally different story. I'm just being biased.
00:03:43
Speaker
Right. No, that's good. And so I think that's, that's kind of the heart of their, they're going to do whatever is the best for the client and their employees.
Employee Stock Ownership Program
00:03:51
Speaker
Yeah. And then they made it a stock or what is it? ESOP. ESOP. Yep. Employee stock option program. Uh, where now the employees truly do have ownership because they have like, they have some ownership and every year they can benefit from that. It seems like that was such the right decision, but I just wanted to just take a time. Like that wasn't an easy decision.
00:04:11
Speaker
No. By any stretch. Yeah. And there had to have been a couple years where they were just holding their breath, like, are we doing the right thing? Now, they were, he did talk about in 2020 or 2000 and 2007, like, was there hype time? Like, they had a huge rush of business. Things were going well, so that had to help, especially the transition.
00:04:31
Speaker
for at least Robert and Dan and think like, okay, we've done this. And for me, it was really cool to see them both edifying each other and the sacrifices they both made to build the company, Kramer and Associates to what they are today. That was really neat to me to see. And you probably know a little bit more of the dynamics than I do, but I thought it was- It's super cool to see. I mean, this is where when I say I got goosebumps, my dad worked for the business and I remember a little bit of it, but by the time he was done,
00:05:00
Speaker
working for the business. I was still pretty young, but like hearing stories, knowing stories, and then having them sit in here is just like super cool because they are like the superheroes or the celebrities of our household because like they're just great men.
Integrity and Family Commitment
00:05:17
Speaker
They've built a company like they took what they were given and they built it even bigger. Yeah.
00:05:21
Speaker
Yeah, they're definitely men of integrity. Yeah. And one example you can say, I mean, they're both married to the same spouse that they did when they started. I'm like, so that's one of the key takeaways is like, yes, same spouse, but like, dude, you can't call your wife at night and say goodnight. That was really interesting to me to talk through that because I think in our generation or like where we're at now, we can't even remember the times before phones. Yeah. And that was a huge reality for them. I think I got my first phone like right out of college.
00:05:50
Speaker
But there was never a time where, you know, like, so I kind of, I feel like a cell phone error. Yeah. They weren't. And so to think about driving 15 minutes to get it to a pay phone and then trying to figure out where somebody's at to talk, talk through an issue that they have, like, whoa, yeah, that's, that's a whole nother level.
00:06:08
Speaker
I didn't want to go there, but like in the sense of our, this is an example, but dude, like we just felt that a month and a half ago when I was going to drive a Dubuque and I forgot my cell phone at my house and we're going to meet at ComoGo so you can give me some folders. Can't tell you. Yes. That's interesting. You know, cause I have my cell phone. So it's like, it's so fascinating to me, but like to think that like, I know that in my younger time, starting my practice,
00:06:38
Speaker
I would step out, like I'd be at networking events or be somewhere, an event, and I would step away to have a phone call my wife, tell her goodnight, and also tell my daughter goodnight. You know? Yeah, they didn't have that. They had none of that. All right. Like I really like, you know, found...
00:06:53
Speaker
a lot and that I could do that just quickly and keep working. They kind of do that though. Okay, so then we ask him, hey, what would you talk about your younger self? I got a lot out of that. I love how Dan was like, I'm gonna run that back. But okay, so the first thing is like, I love his response, his first response is like, I don't have any regrets. I love that too. No regrets.
00:07:14
Speaker
Um, that I feel like is a very cool testimony of like his life. Like I don't really have that many things. Again, like the hard things have maybe created who I am today, which I wouldn't be standing here if it wasn't for the trials. But then, um, then he comes back and saying like, I wish I could be edifying
00:07:32
Speaker
and more encouraging to people. I wish I would have learned that sooner. And him recognizing his past with being a depression era kid growing up, that was fascinating to me because we all have our own history that kind of produces who we are today. And so, yeah, talk about what Robert's like. Robert's, you can tell he's a very analytical, like behind the scenes, you know, picking things.
00:07:56
Speaker
And so it's fun to see how he does things. And again, he's another very biblical man that stays his path. And with the success that he's had, he proves what it is. I remember talking to him a long time ago about
00:08:13
Speaker
D-SOP and how proud he was to be able to do that for the guys and just to be able to give back to a lot of these guys. And it was just like, it was very heartwarming to think, Oh man, like you're such a giving guy. And then that his dad, Delma really gave him
00:08:29
Speaker
That's right. I love the culture that they've built at Kramer and Associates. That's not an easy culture to create. And I think Dan said it the best is like, well, you have to walk the walk in order to create this culture. You got to work hard. You have to be the tip of the spear. You can't just like talk about it. Hope people figure it out. They won't.
00:08:47
Speaker
I mean, to help our listeners really paint the vision, if you know construction workers, it's not like you're working with the cream of the crop
Challenges in Bridge Construction
00:08:56
Speaker
of people. These are guys that probably like to party a little bit. They're willing to work on a hot bridge all day. Definitely need to win people's respect in that industry.
00:09:06
Speaker
And for them both to do that, you can tell with Robert, he's very cool, calm, and collected, probably very easy, like a big listener. You can always tell when I talk to him, he just sort of listens and you know he's generally listening. Right. So I hope our listeners stayed through that. I wish I would have done a little bit better job of like, hey, what is your business at first? Hey, it's bridge building, things like that. But it was fascinating for me at the end to talk through those two bridge examples and have them dissect it of what happened.
00:09:34
Speaker
It was like getting the play by play by like a NFL coach. Yeah. And what happened to another team that fell apart. It was just cool for me. And then also just realized, like, man, we owe a lot of our safety to people we've never met before. Yeah. I know people don't realize that's one of the most dangerous jobs. Bridge building like. Oh, yeah. For everybody involved. The people were building and the people who are then driving off. Yeah. I mean, my brother, his right hand, somebody on his crew died. Oh, wow. On his watch. Wow. So
00:10:04
Speaker
I know you hear about it when you're on the highways, people going 70, 80 miles an hour and stuff like that, so it's dangerous. But yeah, it's a crazy career, but to see them do the stuff that they have, it's cool. And then I remember I was gonna share this, but I didn't, because I know I shared that Dan's super competitive. Yeah.
00:10:29
Speaker
I am also a little competitive. And I worked one summer on the bridge decks. Oh, you did? Yeah. Interesting. So there's this big machine, during an overlay, pouring concrete after you fix the bridge.
00:10:46
Speaker
There's a big machine. Someone stands at the top with all the concrete bags and you break them and you keep pouring them in. You got to go as fast to keep it up with the concrete being made. Okay. Right. And I hear I'm like a 19 year old guy and I'm about to go off to wrestling college. And I think I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm doing good. Yeah. You know, I'm in shape. I'm in shape. I can do this. Yeah.
00:11:06
Speaker
At this point, this time, I realized this is totally different shape because my first week working on the bridge deck, there were some tears that night. Wow. Because you're cramping up, carrying steel and tying steel all day. But anyways, I remember my Uncle Danny, he did, he jumped up next to me. He's like, you got to speed it up. He started showing me how fast you got to go. And I'm like, this old man is kicking my butt. And he moved so fast. And I was like,
00:11:30
Speaker
I mean, my blood was boiling and competitiveness and I was like, I'm going to eat this. But I still don't think I can keep up with them. Well, I love the story.
Conclusion and Gratitude
00:11:40
Speaker
I love their perspective. I love that they have that undertone of faith, even though they don't put it on the wall. Yeah. Everything about that interview I thought was awesome. Even to the point where like, what a cool way to land the plane on the runway of like, now we're transitioning as well. Yeah.
00:11:53
Speaker
So, wish you guys the best of luck. We're huge fans. Big fans. Thanks for instilling some of your wisdom to us here at the Uncomable Podcast. You've been listening to your favorite show, my favorite show, and my parents' favorite show. I've been your host, Phil Ramsey. And Aaron Kramer. Until next time, thanks for listening.