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Episode 11: Inclusion through moving image and sound
2 Plays1 minute ago
In this episode of Talking Transformation, host Charles Knight speaks with Kerry-Jane Packman, chief executive of Learning on Screen, about the charity's new research report, Teach Beyond Text.
Drawing on responses from more than 1,100 post-16 students, the report finds that over 80% say film and television make learning more engaging. Kerry-Jane argues this reflects how naturally students already consume video content and how screen-based storytelling aids memory and recall in ways that text alone cannot.
The conversation also explores a persistent gap between what students want and what institutions provide. Budget pressures, staff workloads and confusion over copyright all discourage educators from embedding screen content into their teaching. Neurodivergent students and those for whom English is a second language show the greatest gains, with the findings consistently pointing to a more inclusive experience when moving image and sound are used.
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Transcript
Introduction to Teach Beyond Text Research
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to Talking Transformation. I'm Charles Knight. Today, I'm joined by Kerry-Jane Pakman, Chief Executive of Learning On Screen, a charity and membership organization dedicated to transforming post-16 education through moving image and sound. And the reason that I was really keen to talk to Kerry-Jane is Learn On Screen has just published Teach Beyond Text, a major new research project that draws on the voices of more than 1,100 students across schools, colleges and universities.
Role of Film and TV in Education
00:00:48
Speaker
The findings reveal how film and television are helping learners connect through theory with real-world practice and they raise important questions about access, inclusion and what students actually need to succeed. Welcome to the podcast.
00:01:03
Speaker
Thank you very much for having me. um i've Before we get into in depth, I just want to know, and we'd had this conversation off air, as many of the listeners know, I used to work in a whole series of business schools. And I'm a massive fan of learning on screen because one of the services you offer, Boxer Broadcast Bob, was just, I used it so much in the in the work that I was doing so that when we connect, I was like, ah this is amazing. So I was, i just put it out to our listeners that I'm a, fanboy of the organisation.
Student-Centric Research Approach
00:01:36
Speaker
So in terms of this new research that you've done, what prompted you as an organisation to go directly to students for this research?
00:01:47
Speaker
um Well, students are at the centre of learning um and many conversations happen about teaching and they're shaped by institutional priorities or staff perspective perspectives. um And these are important, but they do not capture the day-to-day reality of how students learn. And students give us um ah give us a very clear picture of what engages them, what helps them understand and remember, plus where the gaps are between what they need and what they get.
00:02:26
Speaker
Yeah, and and reading the research, I mean, it's really clear what comes out very strongly, and I'll come that in a minute, but I think going directly to the students is such a powerful way of finding this out because lots of the research that we do have about students and what students need and want is often filtered by a number of
Engagement and Retention Benefits of Screen Media
00:02:45
Speaker
other voices. So I thought it was really powerful in that it is that direct student voice. One of the things i thought was really interesting in there and One of the figures notes that over 80% of students say film and TV makes learning more engaging. do you have any ideas why that figure is so Why do you think it's so high?
00:03:03
Speaker
I think first and foremost, students are used to this format. Well, we're all used to this format. It feels natural and not forced. um And we already consume a lot of video content. So us asking around how they engage and what they're engaging with seems very natural um around that.
00:03:30
Speaker
I think as like as as humans as well, um we're wired for stories, not just facts. So film and television provide that narrative and a structure that make it easier to follow and remember.
00:03:47
Speaker
So students are getting this in their day-to-day life, but they're not getting this so much in their studies. And I think... That's why that figure was so high. um And it's not often that students are asked these kind of questions either. There were three things that really stood out for me within these
Addressing Access and Inclusion Challenges
00:04:09
Speaker
results. with The strength and consistency of the response.
00:04:14
Speaker
Students overwhelmingly told us that film and television film and television make learning more engaging and infect and effective.
00:04:24
Speaker
um The gap between demand and access, so what students want and how what they're accessing, was very much come through.
00:04:39
Speaker
And also around that was the neurodivergent element as well, really highlighting that not everybody learns in the same way. And I think that's where we really hit a nerve with this research. And that's why we engaged with the students on quite a high level, but we also hit that note that it's about stories.
00:05:06
Speaker
Reading is one way of learning and you can see and hear things which make it easier to not just to understand, but to recall as well. So for example, a historical event dramatized, you're more likely to recall or remember.
00:05:25
Speaker
um scientific processes visualized and you can see that is easier to to remember and even down to social issues being played out as well.
Institutional Barriers to Screen-Based Learning
00:05:38
Speaker
Yeah and and just going back to a point you made there about access this is a really interesting point to me so in a previous life I became mildly obsessed in the various business school roles I had of what we were paying for in terms of resources and the access to resources we had, and then maximizing the use of them. And the thing that always frustrated me and continues to frustrate me when I go to our university members, I look at the the resources that they've got access to, but there's a disconnect often between the team, often maybe central team who signed for access to a service, but they don't do the cultural work
00:06:18
Speaker
to maximize the benefit of it. and it's so frustrating to me. um I mean, yeah we talked before, I mentioned about Boxer Broadcasts. When I was at Edge Hill University, i was in the business school.
00:06:29
Speaker
Like I maximized the benefit of that across all of the courses so much because without taking us into the whole copyright thing, people were using random YouTube clips that disappear and replace. And I was like, I did the work in the school where people say, look, this is, if if I can be down with the kids, this is totally legit. You can embed this, you can use it as much as you want. You can cut, you can put the clips on the VLE. It's all set up for that. And I think sometimes when I was thinking about some of the students saying that they don't have the right access to resources and sometimes that is the the institution doesn't have the right access, but sometimes the institution just isn't pushing it enough. Is that something you find?
00:07:06
Speaker
Yeah, it is. um Obviously, there is the... There is the issues around budget that come into um what's driving the gap.
00:07:19
Speaker
And I would say there's the cost and the budget there's There's one part of this that there's not enough budget, but there's also the part that it's not a priority either. So they're not prioritising such access in the um in the institution. But then there's other elements that come out. Institutional teaching is still very much more focused on traditional text-based education.
00:07:51
Speaker
learning, not screen-based. And screen-based learning is just not supported. And that's not supported for a number of different reasons. And that can be down to training and confidence as well from the educators. They don't feel confident in using film and TV effectively in their teaching.
00:08:13
Speaker
um It's not something that is taught. within when you're trained to be a teacher about all these different types of content that you couldn't see. And even though educators are seeing, they do see the benefits. I'm not saying that they don't see the benefits.
00:08:33
Speaker
It's not... then becoming an integral part of their work. And that's because it's being not prioritized by the institution as well. And then that also comes into their time and workload pressure as well.
00:08:47
Speaker
They're busy staff. um And it's easy to stick with what is familiar to you when you've got your teaching materials. And then I will go back to a point you made about the copyright side of it as well.
00:09:02
Speaker
It's very confusing. And that doesn't add to the confidence side of it as well. Licensing and rights can be so confusing.
00:09:12
Speaker
What can you use? What can't you use? Where can you use it? So the natural instinct then is just to avoid it. But as you said, Boxer Broadcast is there in order to eliminate these barriers.
00:09:27
Speaker
It is copyright compliant. and please don't use YouTube, I would say.
Optimizing Educational Resources
00:09:33
Speaker
You can get into some very um difficult situations.
00:09:39
Speaker
Yeah, and and just to pick up on some of it, that i think i just want to tie this I think about this a lot. i want tie it to pedagogy for a moment, which is, so when I think about the training development young educators have, they often have development about this is how you're teaching your discipline. But the thing that I often think is missed, just go on a quick rant, is the bit about how do you work smart? So I don't ah i don't want to trivialize workloads. Workloads are a problem in the sector. that But one of the things that always blows my mind when I go out is people trying to create all of the resources from scratch, like they're hand-making shoes, right? And the thing I was always really keen on, and this is where the work of your organization fits in I was saying, hold on, why are you doing all this from scratch? you know Why aren't you using resources? creating a library of resources you can reuse. And i the the way i always think about the work your organization does, your organization creates the context so you've got the resource ready so that if you're smart about what you do, there's no other way to put it. You take out some of the donkey work and you can concentrate on the pedagogical side. Why am I doing this? Why am I using this clip?
00:10:48
Speaker
How does this fit within the thing? So, i mean, it's one of those things that I'm not careful I could just rant about all day, but it just, it's something that's really missing in terms of, yeah, you're designing a course or you're designing a module or you design this, week sheet but what's the resources that you've got access to? Why are you trying to create this stuff from scratch? So I think, I think, I think that's, um, yeah, I think, i think what you've said is really makes sense to me.
00:11:11
Speaker
Something else I just wanted to pick you up on that I thought was really interesting. And you mentioned yourself, um, neurodivergent learners in in the report consistently report greater benefits across all measures.
Advantages for Diverse Learners
00:11:25
Speaker
And I think that's really, really interesting because institutions at all levels post-16 have always struggled with, especially as resources declined, how do we support students? So I just thought it was it was really, really telling. And also students who speak English as a second language as another group who benefit from this. So so why...
00:11:46
Speaker
why do you think there's Why do you think they see such benefit? I think
00:11:53
Speaker
what film, TV and radio make learning more flexible and accessible instantly. So i think i was i was given an example the other day of...
00:12:10
Speaker
you can read the book, but why don't you watch the film? Why don't you then watch the documentary about it and then watch about, um listen to the interviews from the actors of their experience of it as well?
00:12:26
Speaker
And I thought, oh, that that's really interesting. For someone who struggles myself with... reading and just having in that text heavy learning. It becomes a real barrier to me.
00:12:40
Speaker
So film, TV and radio reduce that barrier with having visuals and the audio instead alongside that. And there are so many different ways that you can understand the same idea.
00:12:56
Speaker
But what film, television and radio does is it combines the images And alongside the sound, alongside the dialogue, and also the context as well. So you're seeing an emotional, you're seeing the emotional response.
00:13:15
Speaker
And people generally remember a feeling more than they remember um something that is written down. So that in in another way then gives better focus and attention.
00:13:34
Speaker
um because i I am not the kind of person who can sit down and read a textbook. I'll be honest with you, I am not that person. um And I really struggle to concentrate in that way.
00:13:46
Speaker
So overall, this gives us a more inclusive learning experience that is not judged purely on your reading speed or your writing ability. What it does is levels out the playing field And every consistently, every bit of the research, every question that was asked, the the results were high, but even higher for neurodivergent learners. And that that was something that we were not expecting.
Integrating Screen Content into Education
00:14:19
Speaker
that the The question I kind of wanted to wrap us up with is, what what's your suggestion to institutions that and experts in institutions about what to do differently as a result of this research?
00:14:33
Speaker
So it's why we exist on learning on screen, and that's to treat screen content as core part of learning. education, at teaching and learning, not as an optional, not as a supplementary. um It shouldn't sit on the edges of teaching.
00:14:54
Speaker
It should be built into the standard learning materials alongside the written word. I'd also say it's around improving the access, closing that gap, um making sure it's available across all courses.
00:15:11
Speaker
There is a preconception Boxer Broadcaster, what we provide as an organisation, that it's only there for film and media studies. That is a very, very small part of the the subjects that use that. we we it It's used from vocational subjects right the way up to at more academic subjects, even to the point in an FE college that we were talking to the other day, they use it within mechanics.
00:15:41
Speaker
because they can't demonstrate the type of cars that they want to work on because they can't physically get them into the college, but they can show them on screen and they can show them through various documentaries.
00:15:57
Speaker
And I think the final thing would be around support and train educators with the confidence of using screen content with time-saving tools and guidance around it. Because you do all of those three things, you're actually listening to the students and responding to the insight that we've given.
Where to Find the Report
00:16:22
Speaker
Where can um our listeners find the report and get involved in the work?
00:16:27
Speaker
So you can find it on our Learning On Screen website. um And it it's you can download the full report. There's a very nice infographic there as well. um And also it is, um if you go to our LinkedIn pages as well, you can find links in where to to find that.
00:16:53
Speaker
Great. um Thank you, Kerry-Jane, for joining us. You will find links to the organisational website and the report in the links for this week's podcast. um Thank you again for joining us. And thanks, Kerry-Jane, for joining us.
00:17:10
Speaker
Thank you very much for having me. Thank you.