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S3 E7: Shattering the On-Air Silence with Christie Hayes
103 Plays10 days ago
For radio presenter Christie Hayes and her husband Justin, the road to building a family was a deeply personal path marked by long periods of trying to conceive. Ready to take the next step and begin IVF treatment, they were filled with absolute delight when they discovered they had fallen pregnant naturally. Tragically, that soaring joy was met with devastating heartbreak when they suffered a miscarriage.
In the quiet weeks and months that followed, Christie made the conscious, heavy choice to stay deeply connected to her tears and her pain. Rather than rushing past the trauma, she allowed herself to fully endure the grief, recognising that her sorrow represented an enduring, loving connection to the baby they had lost—whom they have since beautifully and lovingly named Sunflower.
Believing that parental grief should never be carried as a hidden burden, Christie was determined to utilise her public platform as a radio presenter to open up a raw, unfiltered conversation about miscarriage. She set out to lift the veil of isolation, wanting women and families navigating similar losses to feel intensely less alone.
Carrying the Legacy Forward: Hopes for the Future
Today, Christie and Justin joyfully celebrate the birth of their baby girl, Marigold. Yet, Christie fiercely emphasises a truth known by so many in the loss community: the arrival of a "rainbow baby" never erases or replaces the memory of the baby who came before.
Holding Marigold earthside doesn't diminish the love for the child they lost; instead, it binds their family's story together. Looking to the future, Christie hopes to see a world where communities seamlessly wrap their arms around grieving parents, ensuring that every loss is validated, every story is heard, and every baby is remembered.
Help us Celebrate 10 Years & Donate: Help us show up for the next decade. Your donation ensures we can continue providing a circle of support for families impacted by early pregnancy loss. Donate here.
EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone. Connect with our services:
- Live Chat with Peer Support
- Online Communities
- Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA
- Circle of support
- Follow @pinkelephantssupport on instagram.
- For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
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Transcript
Introduction to Christy Hayes's Journey
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome back to season three of the Miscarriage Rebellion. I am really excited to bring today's guest, Christy Hayes, with us. We've spoken with Christy for a number of years. We've watched your experience through miscarriages, loss after IVF, pregnancy after loss, finally welcoming your beautiful baby in your arms last year. And I've spoken about this before on the podcast. There's a moment when we, as a team at Pink Elephants, collectively exhale. When someone finally gets their baby in their arms. And it was definitely a moment for us. I'm really excited to have you here today. Thank you so much for coming on.
00:00:39
Speaker
Thank you. No, but it's funny because when you put it like that, and even though I was there and i was through all of that. when you articulate a journey for someone, whoever it might be, that goes through the joy of finally falling pregnant after the grief of not being able to and then losing the baby and then getting pregnant again, it's I don't think we pause enough sometimes to really remember where we've been or where we've come from or where we want to go.
00:01:07
Speaker
and I remember when... I remember when I first heard your podcast and I needed to hear it so badly. and I remember thinking, it's never going to happen. It's never going never going to have a baby. I'm never going to have a baby. And to see you smile like that because it happened,
00:01:22
Speaker
It really makes me cry already. Yeah. And we said there'll definitely
The Emotional Turmoil of Miscarriage and IVF
00:01:25
Speaker
be tears. We did. But it is it is something that I get that. We're constantly in this kind of what next? How can i make this happen? And it's almost like we don't stop and acknowledge what's actually happening to us because we are the majority of women that I hold space for that we see through pink elephants. We're so desperate to hold a baby in our arms that we're not almost giving ourselves that space to grieve. Right.
00:01:47
Speaker
It's too noisy sometimes. Mm-hmm. You know, like it's just too noisy. You don't get time to stop and think about if I do have a baby, um what would the baby look like? um Will everything be okay? Will I be lucky enough to fall pregnant? You are so sometimes caught up in the trying, the grieving, the everything that there's so much noise and you don't get just that minute or whatever to to feel apart from the pain, of course. um You never really get to have moments where you're smiling at that
00:02:18
Speaker
at hope and positivity things like that because it's such a dark world. And we're coming up, it's not far away, but... August the 4th. August the 4th was our baby's due date. And I still remember it vividly because August the 4th was such a pertinent date because my son Hendricks was born on October 4th and my son Harley was born on September 4th. And we found out we were having a baby. We were like 4, 4, 4. Like, oh my goodness, you know.
00:02:46
Speaker
And to go back to the beginning of of before our beautiful baby who we called Sunflower. Sunflower is the name that we use for the baby that that ah that we... miscarried not lost I don't like that terminology sam um August the 4th I would have a two-year-old that's how long it's been and so every time now we get around to August the 4th and that's the first time that I've said it out loud to anyone apart from my immediate family August the 4th and I think what would he or she look like I would have a two-year-old son daughter and be running around and and living through all the toddler stages and things like that and
00:03:25
Speaker
It was so easy come, easy go. And when I say that, we tried so hard to fall pregnant. We just, we weren't getting there. And and then miraculously ah found out that I was pregnant and traditionally.
00:03:39
Speaker
And then... um you know, I started to bleed and we were having problems and we just ironically paid almost $10,000 for an IVF round. And then we found out we were pregnant. And then we of course went, oh shit, does does that mean we've lost 10 grand as well? yeah We didn't mind because we thought yeah we wanted to spend that on, we were going to spend that on having our baby. So whatever result was was a wonderful result. And so when I say easy come, easy go, we feel pregnant, we' we're about to start IVF, but we had the baby, then we lose the baby.
00:04:10
Speaker
And then we go IVF. I can't even look at it. I hated that money for a long period of time afterwards because i it was literal blood money. yeah That's how I felt. i didn't want to go through IVF. I didn't want to.
00:04:24
Speaker
I just didn't want to try again. Yeah. You can't just replace a baby either. I think there's this misperception that, oh, well, you can try again. or at least you can fall pregnant. And it's like, well, no, I want that baby back. And to your point earlier, I would imagine a baby, they'll be two years old now, a toddler running around. And so much of these experiences is unseen, right? That people around us don't see because society says these statements that minimize it, that no one actually understands how long and how profound these experiences can be and how much they actually can hurt us moving forward. Yeah. we um
00:05:01
Speaker
we We got married. We started trying immediately. I mean... We obviously had lots of sex before we were married, but we we um we were trying to have the baby and my husband, we needed to up, it was his sperm as well, which was a problem, you know. And so we thought, oh, well, that's medical. We can fix it. yeah We can deal with it. You know, let's enjoy the time. And so we, you know, started to settle in and it started to take a while. And then we thought, okay, well, let's just keep going. Yeah.
00:05:28
Speaker
And we thought, look, it's not gonna happen. We're not gonna get pregnant. And then we did. And we both burst into tears and it was December. It was December, 2023. And I remember how joyous that felt because it was, you know, it's the silly season, it's Christmas time. Like it's a wonderful time of the year, you know? and And we told everybody that we were trying for a baby too. So it wasn't like it was a secret. It was a relatively happy time of the previous months trying and things like that or the previous years, I should say.
00:05:56
Speaker
And then when we fell pregnant,
00:06:00
Speaker
And I noticed that things were wrong because I was bleeding and I was cramping and I was having pain and I was experiencing things I'd never experienced with my two previous pregnancies.
Finding Connection and Understanding After Loss
00:06:10
Speaker
um And I remember thinking, something's wrong here. Like, what's going on? And it didn't matter that I was early on in the pregnancy and it didn't matter that I...
00:06:19
Speaker
had only been pregnant for a second that was our baby you know and and i'm a big believer in having choices of course and and very pro that for women of course but to us and and ah you know to so many couples our baby was right there our baby was loved and wanted and i remember when i got scared thinking hang on I was bleeding for a bit but I was like this should stop now right like this doesn't I was maybe a bit naive um and I it's one of those things that you don't ever think will happen to you you never want it to happen to anyone but you kind of live in this world where you go oh I've heard about it before but I mean I don't think it'll happen I feel good like surely there's no reason and
00:07:05
Speaker
And I got really scared. I could tell something was not right and my husband was scared and we were terrified together and we were trying to remain hopeful though and going to doctor's appointments and things like that. And so we only had that elation for a week, a week and a half, two weeks, where we already told people that we loved, i.e. we told our two sons and we told um my son Harley. My other son Hendrix is is autistic and nonverbal and doesn't have the comprehension. But of course, you know, the family were very excited. And and then it was over.
00:07:39
Speaker
And it was when I say easy come, easy go, that was the it felt like, hey He or she's here, he or she's gone. And I didn't think that I'd ever be able to face the world again because,
00:07:51
Speaker
Never in my life had I experienced grief like that. And I mean pain and I mean like anger and confusion. And it's one thing that I tell you about grief is how tiring it is Like not only is the physicality happening for a woman literally miscarrying and bleeding and and in pain and things like that, but you are dropping in hormone levels and and all the grief that you're going through – And I remember thinking, I don't understand why this is happening. Like, did I do something wrong here? Like, I tried everything. Like, I mean, it really tried everything. And I was angry at myself. And I was i was angry at the world.
00:08:29
Speaker
And I'm a happy, positive, polite person by nature. And I I remember really feeling immense hopelessness was when we went to go and have the baby scan and, and the sonographer picked up the wand, forgive my terminology. And, and she started to, to scan and everything like I was still bleeding, but the baby was still there. And I thought, okay, okay, this is positive. I can hang on to that.
00:08:58
Speaker
And then over the the next 48 hours was when HCG was dropping dramatically and, and all that stuff. And, I just know. You just you just know.
00:09:09
Speaker
You just feel it. You feel it. yeah Literally. But you literally feel it. And I just remember thinking the pain that I was feeling, like the cramps and the blood and all that stuff. I was like, no, no, no. People were saying, do you want panadol? Do you want this? And i was like, no I don't want anything.
00:09:24
Speaker
Because wherever my little baby is going, I want to go along with them. I want my baby to know that mummy stayed with you literally every single step of the way. And I'm so grateful that our baby joined us just for a period of time. And I thought I owe it to this beautiful baby to to see our baby out.
00:09:45
Speaker
I'm not going to let my baby be taken from me and me not walk him or her through the next life or wherever she was going or wherever he was going i wanted to be there every step of the way for a baby that i loved so much and was so and i'm still as is my husband justin heartbroken to have had taken from us yeah for a reason i still can't make sense of but something that happens to thousands and thousands and thousands of women all over the world every single day
00:10:18
Speaker
And this is it. eve like If anyone's not moot, you just described that. I don't understand why if we are feeling this profound emotional distress, grief, shock, anger, all the things that you just outlined there, it's happening to thousands of women every day or 24 million globally is what the estimated yearly amount is.
00:10:45
Speaker
So how have we landed here in society where we look away? Like what's your thoughts around that? What needs to change maybe as well? I know it sounds really cliche and and it is, it's because people use the expression quite a lot, but now we need to talk about it more, which is why I'm so glad that you are so glad that this space exists because when I lost sunflower and believe we were losing sunflower, my husband and I were clinging to one another and barely clinging to anything at that point in time, but I needed to hear from other people. Like I sat down, right?
00:11:22
Speaker
in my grief and crying, in my pain and in my blood and my tracksuit pants and my anger and in my fuck you world stage. And I started to Google, it sounds silly, but I started to Google celebrities who have lost a baby, right?
00:11:36
Speaker
And I was looking at actresses and looking at names and thinking to myself, oh my God, um okay, Megan, Duchess of Sussex, she said she's lost a baby. Various other high profile people have spoken about it. And I remember thinking, okay,
00:11:50
Speaker
it' not going to make anything better of course, but thinking to myself, okay, I know that person um has a big life and has suffered a measurable pain themselves and he's still going and, and putting one step in front of the other. And I was trying to look for anyone who could contextualize that life could continue because I really felt like it couldn't. And The pain of losing your baby so profound because, like you said just
Challenging Misconceptions and Language Around Miscarriage
00:12:21
Speaker
before, Sam, it's not, ah, we'll get pregnant again. a lot of people don't know if they will ever get pregnant again and a lot of people don't anyway, but you don't want the next baby.
00:12:30
Speaker
Of course you don't. You want that baby. You want your baby that's there. that's That's what biology tells us when we want to keep our pregnancy for the people that do want to continue the pregnancy. And and I'm sure in many cases for people that choose to not continue their pregnancies for personal reasons – I can't even imagine the choices and and the decisions that are made there. But I remember thinking, we need to talk about this more because i feel like this is the only experience that anyone has happened with miscarriage. could be me and I know that that might sound self-indulgent but it's just how you feel at the time, right? You just think to yourself, no one could know what this feels like. Like how could anyone possibly continue going to work?
00:13:14
Speaker
I was so lucky. I was so fortunate, I should say. I hate, I'm not using the word lucky, but going back to December when we lost Sunflower, um I was on leave from work. I had four weeks off over the holiday period and a lot of people don't have that. no And um I got to grieve in private and take that time in private and and talk about it and and also have that time to grieve for myself. I can't imagine how people are in love with their baby quietly talking about, oh, how are we going to announce it? What names are we like?
00:13:47
Speaker
What does this look like for us? Ripped away because you readjust your perspective when you get pregnant. You think about your next stage of life. Then you have to readjust it when you lose the baby because you'd already made the readjustment.
00:14:01
Speaker
And life just doesn't feel like it's ever going to be the same. And so talking about it, even more than what we do and just making people... know that they are not alone is the most important thing we can do. Yeah, we hear that a lot. We know that what we provide, which is peer support, fancy name, but that's basically listening to other people, validating how you feel from that lived experience of, oh yeah, I get that. I felt that too. reading other people's stories, looking at the differences that they, like you said it before, the hope piece, right? Somebody else that's found a way to carry on, but that can hold so much hope for someone who can't find it for themselves. And it's that kind of empathy sitting with people in the darkness, right? I think there's a lot of power in that, definitely. I've heard you talk as well about the language that surrounds miscarriage. And you said a little bit earlier, I don't like the term loss as well.
00:14:50
Speaker
Can you talk a little bit more about that from your kind of perspective? Yeah. It just didn't feel accurate. I mean, we lose keys. We lose our bra when we're yeah running around getting ready for work. you know We lose the kids' school ah school shoes. like you know We lose things.
00:15:13
Speaker
Things get lost or things get stolen. baby isn't an item that gets lost. um I feel like my baby was ripped away from me.
00:15:24
Speaker
And the person that did it is me. And I understand rationally that that's not the case. know pregnancies end. know embryos aren't viable.
00:15:35
Speaker
Of course, you know, rational speaks to me and I understand these things. But in terms of the language, I just think to myself, I don't know how I feel about saying I've lost a baby.
00:15:45
Speaker
And I think just even the the readjustment. A vernacular sometimes really does make someone feel a little bit more heard. People get desensitised. Yes. And just because someone is desensitised doesn't mean they should be insensitive. And I think as well for people who aren't walking the path, you might hear it at workplace gossip or someone might go, oh, Julia's lost it.
00:16:10
Speaker
oh, well, she's lost a baby. And they tell the next person, so be nice. They've lost a baby. And it's like, no, no, no. Julia's going through the worst agony that she's ever gone through in her life. Please, as as much as you can, um which people do try and do, just be be as be as communicative about it as as Julia feels comfortable. and And in my experience, when it comes to language around miscarriage...
00:16:34
Speaker
and pregnancy theft as I call it yeah is um I didn't want people to go silent that's my personality type and it's not everyone's people I know no doubt a lot of people don't want people in the office to come up or wherever you work and say hey just want to say I'm here if you need it people um broaching your own trauma can be quite triggering for people that ah a different personality type but for me I
Grieving Openly and Honoring Sunflower
00:17:01
Speaker
liked it when I could respond with when people said to me, how are you going? I could say, I'm not doing well. I i just had a baby taken from me. I mean, i have a 10 year old son that I mentioned. His name's Harley. And it was like the bloody end of year, big, you know, December fun day out at the school. and so
00:17:20
Speaker
And I'm like, of course I've got to go. know, I have to go. It was two weeks later and I'm going, I'm putting my sunnies on because I don't want to cry or people see cry or whatever. But yeah, Naturally, I'm now looking at all these beautiful students and these beautiful children. And and I honed in on this this, you know, gorgeous little girl. She was probably five or six. And I remember thinking to myself, wow, that brunette girl.
00:17:42
Speaker
You know, that could have been my daughter in a couple of years. Like, I see something there and it probably looked really weird because she wasn't my daughter and I didn't want to make her feel uncomfortable by smiling at her. But children are so innocent and beautiful. But my point is, his school principal came up and said, hi, Christy, you know, yeah how are you feeling? And I said, not good. i I actually just had a pregnancy, miscarriage, and I felt so cathartic about it afterwards. And I was lucky that that space was held because...
00:18:09
Speaker
People might respond with feeling uncomfortable, but I found most of the time people give you that time of the day when you just say, hey, yeah I need some support right now in this moment. Yeah, I think the disclosure piece is a big one. I wholeheartedly agree with the language piece. I know that I identify with my babies died, like to your point. I didn't lose them. They weren't something to lose um And I can't help but think that society's ability to look away from our losses is perpetuated by this language that almost kind of wraps a silver lining and makes it more easy for people to deal with. If we say pregnancy loss, it wasn't really a baby yet. That's okay, right?
00:18:47
Speaker
like and more But we use miscarriage and pregnancy loss a lot because people have to find us and SEO and the way that the world works online. And so we have to use them. But yeah, doesn't mean that we endorse them. But also don't think the world's quite ready yet for my baby died constantly. I think for some people that can be quite jarring. um It's an interesting one because it's individual as well.
00:19:10
Speaker
So we're in December. Sunflower. What next? How do you pick yourself up again?
00:19:19
Speaker
I cried all the time. Yeah. I cried all the time. And I was happy that i was crying. I know that sounds really morbid, but I didn't want the tears to end. I loved being able to feel because the tears and the pain and the grief is is connection to sunflower, right? Yeah.
00:19:37
Speaker
The second I stopped crying, Does that mean I stopped caring? Like it wasn't possible for me to stop crying. Or my husband, my husband, Justin, the pain in his voice when he found out that we lost Sunflower was an excruciating cry. And I told him on the phone because the doctor very sensitively let me know on the phone because I said, just tell me right now if the HCG is dropping that it's not, I just want to know now. I couldn't handle the limbo and...
00:20:04
Speaker
My husband was actually, it came up looking for maternity clothes for me and he got back to the car because he couldn't find any clothes. He was looking in like the active wear section and I was starting to grow a belly and I said, well, did you go to the maternity section? So he went back in and he goes, all right. And he had found some clothes for me, gets back in the car and I called him and he would be, scared too really scared because of the bleeding and things and me just going it's not this doesn't feel right um but he was remaining optimistic and so I tell him he sobs he breaks down I'm sobbing I'm breaking down we still had to make dinner you know the kids still have to eat we had to you know in the blur that we were trying and tend to the the running of the home in this horrific pain that we were in but
00:20:50
Speaker
my My grief actually just kept getting worse. And every opportunity that I could, I wanted to cry. I hated holding in tears.
00:21:02
Speaker
You can't breathe properly. no You can't. it's It's horrific. It sits. It sits here in your chest. It sits here in your gut. The pain of losing my baby or having my baby die and being ripped away from me was more horrific then than anything I can express. And I...
00:21:19
Speaker
I found myself naturally crying all the time and I was relieved about that. I go up and get a coffee from my local shop and you know I feel bad for like you know the baristas because they're like this, hi, Hush Day. I'm like, it's not good. I've had, you know, I've had, and they were, Christy, I'm so sorry. And that's not for everyone, i know, in terms of being such an open book, but I really just needed to cry in December and kept crying and kept crying. And um and then I had to go back to work.
00:21:49
Speaker
And this one was, this one really stood out for me and this is when I was deep dive Googling and and obviously where I found Pink Elephants and I was so grateful for that because I just thought, who the hell am I going to listen to? Like who was, who knows this?
00:22:04
Speaker
Who knows this? Millions of pain of people know this but you just don't feel like it in the time. So we get through Christmas. That was fun. um And then I had to go back to work in January and I had a choice. I was like, okay, because I had posted on Instagram. I remember that. and And I wanted to tell people about our baby because I loved our baby so much. and And even though our baby died, um I wasn't not celebrating our baby's life. Our baby was here and our baby mattered. And there was a time and a space where that was real for us. And I didn't, I didn't want to not acknowledge that as our life and our reality forever.
00:22:42
Speaker
And then also the anxiety of going back to work started to kicking because i went, okay, well, i work on the radio. I'm a breakfast radio a host and I was on TV for a long time. and And now if I talk about it, is it going to be hard to get through?
00:22:57
Speaker
And I went, hang on a second. Not only do you,
00:23:03
Speaker
Not owe it, but not only should you normalise this conversation for other people who've lost a baby, but you should also do it for sunflower because you love sunflower.
00:23:14
Speaker
Of course you have the right to talk about your baby and not feel that you are making people feel uncomfortable at work. 100%. Yeah. yeah i think that's a big part of it as well, right? They're very real. Our babies are real to us. Our experiences matter. And we deserve to have spaces where we feel safe to talk about our babies and not be judged or minimised. Yeah, it's huge. It's huge.
00:23:38
Speaker
And then what next? How did you even... I thought, okay, I can shy away from this now and I can just do my breakfast show and, hey, let's talk about Ed Sheeran and Taylor Swift and all those things we did anyway. Mm-hmm.
00:23:52
Speaker
But I'm not a surface level person or a broadcaster. like I always like to go deeper and and I'm aware of the fact that if you're lucky enough to have a platform, you should do it. You should take it seriously and and use it for good and just let people know that they're not alone. So I knew what I needed when had sunflower ripped from us and I didn't want anyone out there for a split second to feel like they were alone too. And so...
00:24:19
Speaker
I said to my team as in my co-host Dan and our beautiful producer Matt, they're great guys. And of course they knew about it and had sent me beautiful messages and cuddles and we're here for you and all those things. And I said, all right, of course I want to talk about it on air. And and it was my first day back and I chickened out.
00:24:38
Speaker
I said, it's Monday. do people want to hear this on a Monday? Like it's already a shitty enough day of the week for most people. yeah like ignore No one likes a Monday. And then I said, I just don't know if I can do it just yet. Like I've talked about a lot of things on air and I've cried many times on air, but I went this one, i want to do it justice. And I, I'm scared. I'm scared because i I, just don't feel alive anymore. Like I, I feel nothing but darkness and sadness and I felt immense grief.
00:25:11
Speaker
And I didn't think that I would be able to translate in a way that was helpful to anyone. um That they weren't alone. But we get there and and work is fantastic.
00:25:23
Speaker
I get on air and I say, okay, I want to say something. and know it affects millions of people, ah millions of women around the world and a lot of couples or a lot of people, individual people trying for a baby. And I want you to know that over the summer break, this is what happened.
00:25:39
Speaker
We fell pregnant with this beautiful wanted adored baby and the baby's gone baby has died i have miscarried ah hate the term i lost a baby was a lot i wanted to say and that and murphy's lorries of course when you get on air on tv things you know all you can ever do in those moments and what i've tried to do over the years and doing right now is you just speak from the heart and recall things as well as you can and Then the messages started to come through, calls started to come through. People in the office started to come up to me and I could tell even just from the own direct vicinity of where I worked that there was a lot of other women that that had happened to.
00:26:27
Speaker
There's a beautiful woman at our radio station. Obviously, i won't name names. And when we lost Sunflower, she she sent a gift, which was this beautiful Christmas tree bauble, which talked about it was a poem and it talked about how we now have an angel in the sky with all the other babies that have said goodbye.
00:26:44
Speaker
And I remember thinking, she's so a really sweet lady at work. She's a little bit more quiet. Like, I didn't see this for her. Of course, I didn't. Why would I? Because it's such an invisible grief. It's such an invisible grief.
00:26:56
Speaker
How many of us are walking around with this? Yeah. Every day? Every day. Every day. And the second I started to talk about it, but felt better. Other people felt more comfortable saying that they could come up and talk about it.
00:27:10
Speaker
And also I was grateful because it meant that my husband, the baby's father, he also got support that he needed too. um ah Because sometimes I feel like partners of of people that are pregnant and trying for the baby can can get forgotten about it along the way as well.
00:27:28
Speaker
But mostly the support that I received was overwhelming and I was just so glad that other people most importantly knew that that they weren't alone.
Balancing Grief and Hope Through IVF
00:27:38
Speaker
It does. When you start talking about it, it's amazing how many more people around you, right? And then there's like that,
00:27:44
Speaker
Knowing. Yeah. That just, and there's something in that moment that is compassion, empathy, all those things held. Yeah. And that matters. It does. It's like a club that you don't want to be in. It's like a language that you don't want to speak. You know, you do not want to be bilingual. You don't want to be able Hey, Oh my God, you know, this pain. I know this. We're speaking our own thing together. Like no one wants to have it.
00:28:05
Speaker
But having said that, I was so glad about the collective community because we could all stick together. And we're so strong together. One of the things I've had the absolute privilege privilege of witnessing in the last 10 years of doing this is the strength of us together, of the difference we make for each other. Our peer support companions, when we started that program where they one-on-one hold space via live chat,
00:28:28
Speaker
I never accounted for how healing it would be for the women holding space, how cathartic is for them. Now we've got like posters published and things like that on that. And it's just mind blowing to me. I'm like, okay, I was worried about the risk of someone else listening someone else's story and things like vicarious trauma and taking on too much that's too similar to your journey.
00:28:48
Speaker
And it's been the complete opposite. It has been... this program that just has so much full circle kind of like validation empathy. And yeah, I feel like the strength of women and partners and families who are in this isn't talked about enough. That the fact that you can not only survive one of the world's most indescribable pains whilst the world is moving on and ignoring it, but then you can be brave enough to put your heart on the line and go, well, ultimately I want a baby. So I'm going to try again.
00:29:20
Speaker
and then that's another layer because you go are we ready yes are we ready how could i do this to sunflower how we're not moving on what do you mean like it is this trying to move on by trying again does trying again mean that we are trying to forget and of course it doesn't you never forget you coexist yes You know, when I lost Sunflower, we had a Christmas photo. the Go and meet Santa. Let's do a Christmas photo. um
00:29:52
Speaker
I mean, if you see that Christmas photo on my Instagram, it's like I'm blurry-eyed red. You know, I've been crying and everything like that. It's not a good photo of mum. But the photo is there. And I said, I have two of my babies in my arms and my third baby is right here in my heart.
00:30:11
Speaker
And she's still here. Sunflower is still here. Even though her baby sister, Marigold, Goldie, my now six-month-old daughter, is here.
00:30:22
Speaker
And I remember when we went, okay, but we are trying again. Think how much we love sunflower. We are not forgetting sunflower. We are trying to not reincarnate, not re-bring, but we're going to have...
00:30:40
Speaker
Our baby will find us. However, this happens. So we start trying traditionally. It's not happening. i don't want to go through the risk of a miscarriage again. i hated it. i refused to put myself through it. I'm scared to get pregnant. I'm not excited about the possibility. But then we also have to get pragmatic because, you you know, I'm 37. We're doing IVF. It's very expensive. How can we pay for it?
00:31:06
Speaker
what are we going to make work? So we had to start to make decisions and we got a bit stronger and, and we wanted to, to try, uh, to try to make decisions to see where we could go. And I said, okay, let's just see where we go. So we do our IVF round and we get the eggs out. Uh, I get the eggs out and, um,
00:31:32
Speaker
and we go, okay, well, we'll have a transfer. Like I've got a great team, you know, Taz IVF are responsible for, for Goldie's arrival, my daughter's arrival, but Taz IVF who were fantastic, ah who we also went through with Goldie and, um and we get the eggs out for the, you know, you do the needles and all that sort of stuff. And I had a good egg result. And so we're feeling strong and then they go, okay, we're going to do the transfer. We'll do the transfer.
00:31:56
Speaker
And and um I'm thinking, i think this has worked. I think this has worked. Like I've got pregnancy symptoms. I've been pregnant before, I know what they are. there's no blood.
00:32:07
Speaker
It's very early days and they say, don't test yourself. You know, don't do that because you want to give yourself off. But all of course we're going to, right? Of course we are. and We want to prepare ou ourselves. It's good news. Is it bad news? Whatever.
00:32:19
Speaker
Everyone does. Well, most of us, lot of do. The majority people we see and we support absolutely test within that 10-day window that you're not meant to, right? yeah So I do it. And I'm like, ah that test is coming back reflecting pregnancy. And then we're going, okay, cool. We've got it.
00:32:35
Speaker
Let's not be cocky or anything like that. um
00:32:39
Speaker
It did work, but it wasn't viable. I thought, off anger kicks back in, tease. So um it's a chemical pregnancy. And I'm like, you've got to be fucking kidding me.
00:32:52
Speaker
A chemical pregnancy. So what was the point of that? What are you doing to me? Like yeah relate whoever you are, yeah whatever it is, there's no reason for this. And then there was like...
00:33:04
Speaker
My body, like there was no reason for this. You know, I wasn't as skinny as I was before, but I'm very fit and healthy. So I'm a mess. I'm angry. I'm getting resentful too. yeah taking about it Taking a bit of stuff out of my husband that wasn't fair.
00:33:22
Speaker
The, you know, well, you know, with this your sperm, blah, blah, blah. Like looking for... looking for justification wherever you can find it. And of course you feel terrible about that. And I did it of course, and that wasn't fair. And then we go, okay, we'll try again.
00:33:40
Speaker
Try it again. And I decided this time I wouldn't tell anyone about it because I just, I just didn't want the bullshit. I didn't want, and so going get the eggs out um and do a cycle. That doesn't work. and And I went, all right, I'm not doing this anymore. Like we've we've spent thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. Like I'm talking ivfp IVF all up cost us about $40,000. We get the rebate and things like that, but you've got to come up with the money on the spot. Like it's an expensive task. And so I said, all right, I'm not doing it anymore, but we'll do one last time.
00:34:18
Speaker
Would you believe it was actually our fourth round? And, you know, I talked earlier before about the baby sunflower being due on the fourth and the boys are born on the fourth. And that's mine and my husband's lucky number is four just for various things. Like we were born four days apart and we've always said it.
00:34:33
Speaker
And I'd never had a break from IVF concurrently. Like I've always been going back to back cycles and things like that. And so I said, okay, that's it. If this works, it doesn't.
00:34:45
Speaker
If it works, it does. We've said, okay, we'll get my eggs out. Do the eggs. Had a good result for the eggs. Not an amazing result, but a good result of when they get your eggs out. they they We got ours checked. So we put we paid more money to go and get our um our egg tested just to make sure that the embryo would be viable. And then we put it on ice.
00:35:06
Speaker
All right, okay. We're going overseas. Let's go and have a holiday that we can't afford. Yeah, that's right. We cannot afford it. Everyone's like, go on holiday. you like I've just spent. Thanks for that advice. It's really, yeah, cool.
00:35:18
Speaker
And so we went and had a white Christmas and um and we came back. And then this time around, would you believe I said to everyone on the air, to everyone I knew, I was like, we're about to do an IVF egg transfer. For some reason, I just wanted to tell people. I just felt strong enough again, perhaps, to tell people. And now we're at the end of 2024. So we're a year after losing sunflower. This is how long this has taken us to even get here. So we come back from our, our trip and get back on air and 2025 rolls around. We're in the beginning of 2025 now after years of, of going through IVF and, um,
00:35:59
Speaker
egg transfer day comes around. So this is after we've had the the eggs on ice. This is after we've tested them. This is after we've done everything and we're nervous, but we're trying to be optimistic. And I said, it's the last time. And I, I meant it. Yeah. And I thought the universe wants us to, to have the baby or would not, or maybe there's not even a reason because there's not a reason for everything sometimes in my opinion, or the reason people can learn from it, but I still can't make sense of this where I'm no reason. And so,
00:36:27
Speaker
Transfer day comes around and I brought it to the air and we told people, we were like, this is a transfer day. And people started to call and leave messages and and I spoke to callers on air and people were sending me. lovely DMs and I had a woman ring up and she said a beautiful Tibetan prayer and and look, I felt so touched and supported and positive and so happy that day.
00:36:51
Speaker
And we went and did the transfer and I got all the acupuncture beforehand then acupuncture afterwards and we got tips on air about, hey, you know, like how did you get your IVF to stick? Like we had fun with it because it was just such an arduous process the whole time that we were just up for anything.
00:37:07
Speaker
went had the macas fries because that was a tip um and i got scared afterwards but i thought okay let's try i took some time off work to relax my body watching kristin bell series laying in bed feeling confident and um decide to do the test the don't do the 10 day test thing we hold it i'm doing it and i went day five day six because i'd seen the symptoms again i went okay, this is this feels pregnancy-like.
00:37:38
Speaker
Is it just going be another chemical? I know. And it's like, you just question everything now, right? That's the hard part. Yeah. And you're scared again. Because I went, hang on, my body does this. Oh, look, you're pregnant. No, you not. Oh, look, you're pregnant again. No, not.
00:37:52
Speaker
I'm like, make up your mind. Like, stop doing this to me. And I sent my husband up to go and get a pregnancy test. And then I sent him up to go and get another one.
00:38:04
Speaker
just because I wanted to have different options there and then on the spot. And anyone who's done this, and um you know what it's like, Sam, you have to be pee to do a pregnancy test at home. And so it's not that easy just to do them back to back. And I said, okay, I'm going to do it.
00:38:17
Speaker
Did a test. I had the two lines and it was really strong this time. And I screamed and I called my husband inside and he's like mowing the lawn at the time and he thinks something's wrong. So he comes running in and and showed it to him and we just grabbed each other and I said, okay, I'll go and do the other one, which took a while because did fill up again with water. tom And the same thing.
00:38:39
Speaker
And I went, no, no, this... No, this can't be right. Like, I don't, why am I, why am I getting scared and sad again? I should be happy. Hang on. I'm not ready for this.
00:38:54
Speaker
Please don't do this to me again. Don't give me something and then take it away from me because I will die of a broken heart. I can't survive it again.
00:39:04
Speaker
So I sent him up to go and get another pregnancy test to Woolies. Comes back. And I said, look, just go and get a few. They're like 20 bucks And you want different brands, right? Different brands. Because you've heard the rumors that first response, that one doesn't work. And that one's highly sensitive. And that one gives false positives. So you literally spend hundreds of dollars. Yeah. and h yeah Because you don't believe. Because can't believe because of everything that you've been through, right? Mm-hmm. You can't believe it. You can't believe it.
00:39:31
Speaker
and you don't And you sometimes don't even want to believe it. Because at being real then becomes… Makes it frightening, right? Frightening. Then it becoming real can make it become unreal again. And you can't survive it.
00:39:45
Speaker
So in the end, I've done multiple tests. They're all positive. And I said to my husband, okay… look, we've got the blood test, I think it was two days away. i'll do ah i'll do one I'll do another test tomorrow and see if it gets stronger or if it fades. Because if it fades, at least that way, I don't need to have someone look me in the eye and tell me the horrific news. I can deal with it by
The Joy and Privilege of Pregnancy with Marigold
00:40:05
Speaker
myself. I'm stoic. I'm going be strong. I'm going to cry. I'm going But, you know i can prepare myself and then the next day it's the same, if not probably stronger. And I've got like a lunchbox of pee sticks by now at this stage. Like we've got a Jimi Hendrix lunchbox after my son. So it's like this cool Jimi Hendrix lunchbox full of all my all of all my pregnancy sticks covered in pee and i still have it to this day.
00:40:29
Speaker
So my IVF appointment comes around for us to tell, to you know, to the blood test. And I walked in and I said, and I know these beautiful women now, angels. Hmm. angels, fertility nurses, yeah doctors, support people are.
00:40:42
Speaker
Hold your hand in the most horrific of circumstances. And I showed them the lunchbox and i said, i'm I'm too scared to go and get a blood test. And the nurse grabbed me and she said, honey, go and do your blood test now so that we can sort this out by the end of the day. In other words, she's thinking to herself, this girl is pregnant. This woman is pregnant. This is a good thing. Let's go and celebrate. yeah But I was too scared. And I'm thinking... i don't know if I can, i don't know if I can, and it's a Friday afternoon and oh you what if the and then you everything's closed over the weekend and we need to know, right? Like we can't. well it's I think if the health system realised the places we go, that then the gaps in systems care wouldn't happen because you can't let people sit in the unknown. And yet we've got a health system that operates on business hours. Yet our pregnancy losses happen 24-7, right? You've got the need for blood results. And you add it if you then look at regional, it's even worse, right? And you just, oh, like the mental torture of the weight.
00:41:41
Speaker
Yeah. It's it's got to change. and It has to change like you just said. People bleed. People have miscarriages. Midnight, 2 a.m. It doesn't wait for anyone.
00:41:52
Speaker
Answers, results, communication, help. We need it 24-7. The weekend was coming around and, and you know, are so what? I needed these results and so, all right, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going.
00:42:06
Speaker
And then about three o'clock on Friday afternoon rolls were around and I went and got the blood test, I don't know one o'clock and they said that we'll try and expediate it for you. And 4.30, we still hadn't got the call. And I'm like, all right, if we don't get this call by five from our IVF provider – I don't think it's good news or they haven't got a back or something's happened or they're gonna schedule us in in person to to tell us sensitively and I refuse to go to these, I'm not doing it. I just can't do it to myself. don't wanna cry and grieving. I just want to now put my head in my pillow and cry.
00:42:39
Speaker
And so in the end we, um we just walked into the building. They actually, i kid you not, the IVF facility is literally underneath my radio station. So that building was where I broadcast and where I cried, had failed rounds, did blood tests, had high conversations. And then Friday afternoon at five to 5 p.m.
00:43:03
Speaker
on March 27th, walked into the building and we found out that we were very, very pregnant with Marigold with fantastic HCG results.
00:43:15
Speaker
of And she put her arms around me, our nurse, because she had previously told me that my previous pregnancy of of what I had was not viable, positive but not viable. And she said...
00:43:31
Speaker
She said, one of the worst things I've ever seen in my career was the day I broke your heart. And she said, but now today it's one of the best moments and this is why we do it. And we all cried. We were so happy. And I still remember it.
00:43:43
Speaker
And I remember thinking, oh my God, is this real? Has it actually worked? And the thing is though, I sit here and talk about IVF and I'm so thankful for IVF and people might make the choice to do it. Some people don't need to go through that route if they have a traditional experience pregnancy success but I'm also aware of the fact that people hear it and it's not viable for everyone. You can't afford it or there isn't the support. Like it's not just that easy for people to, even though IVF is so hard, a lot of people don't have the luxury to go back and do it again and again and again and again.
00:44:21
Speaker
And that's a whole nother grief for people too. Yeah. Because I've heard those stories from people who say, I'm so happy for you. I love this for you. i wish we could do it. I wish we could go back and try again and we can't because of this and because of that, you know.
00:44:35
Speaker
and that's not lost on me either no it's so it's so hard when you're trying for a baby that if the only option you also have to try and bring your baby is coming down to money that just makes the the frustration and the grief even harder because you're powerless he you can't do anything yeah You can't do anything about it.
00:45:00
Speaker
And you already feel powerless when you have your baby taken from you. And you feel even more powerless when you now need to come up with thousands and you can't or whatever whatever your circumstance might be.
00:45:14
Speaker
And so when I talk about IVF, I'm so mindful that that we are in such a privileged position to have that grief. I am privileged that... I got to have answers the first time. It wasn't the answer that I wanted or the second time or the third time.
00:45:32
Speaker
But I'm still privileged that I got to try in that way too. Yeah, you're right. Because as for so many, the cost is so prohibitive. Yeah. It's just not possible. Yeah.
00:45:46
Speaker
I didn't think really that we would get here. And now you are. She's six months old. She's six months old. That's mad, right? I know. And, and I look at my daughter and her name is Marigold May. She was called, her middle name is May. That's when her father and I got married. And, and May was a hopeful time. it was a beautiful time. That's when we got married and it's my favorite season. And,
00:46:10
Speaker
And we thought Marigold has to be her name and her nickname is Goldie. Goldie Hawn is my favorite actress, but also I loved the the encapsulation of of bright and colorful and and leaving her gold in this world. And that's what I knew her name was. I just knew it. And I i look at her now and I go was every needle, was every blood test, was every grief stricken day
Embracing Loss and New Life
00:46:37
Speaker
that we had worth it? And yes, of course it was worth it.
00:46:41
Speaker
But I also remember someone who sent me a message when Sunflower died and I probably didn't appreciate it as much at the time, even though I knew it came from such a beautiful place and every message does. It was someone who had, as I'm starting to now, walked on the other side yeah and said, when you have your baby, it'll make sense.
00:47:04
Speaker
You'll meet your baby and that will. Your baby, the baby in your arms or the baby that finds you will help you coexist with your beautiful sunflower and sunflower will be there with your baby and you'll feel even closer to sunflower when your baby is born. And I didn't get that. i was like, what do you mean? How would I?
00:47:26
Speaker
and And I get it now. Marigold's arrival is so coexistent with sunflower that I think to myself,
00:47:38
Speaker
did you guys talk on the way on on the other side, like wherever you were together? Like did sunflower protect you so that you would stay with mommy and you would find us?
00:47:50
Speaker
All these questions I have when I look at the miracle that is now here. And it'll be important to me as, as Goldie ages that she, he's nothing but the truth with, fertility issues that I had and the loss of what would have been her big brother or sister.
00:48:13
Speaker
I always just feel like Sunflower is a girl. and Yeah, I say. i say like yeah yeah Yeah. I just know. We didn't find out. um And i want that space to exist.
00:48:25
Speaker
But i also want her in her own rhyme to know how wanted she was too and how her existence and and her independent miraculous existence is a miracle that I just never felt ever would happen. And it did. And every single day we look at her and we can't believe it. Hmm.
00:48:51
Speaker
When I say that, like, she's just the most beautiful baby. I mean, every baby is gorgeous. and Every parent thinks their baby is gorgeous. But I mean, she's so happy. yeah There's like this weird, I've been here before thing. Marigold is an old soul. She's always smiling. She's a happy baby. And it's not like we're doing anything extra that warrants the happy baby. Like, I know that people listening now might be going through a really hard time with a baby that always cries and it's hard.
00:49:17
Speaker
And they're doing everything that we're doing. So I don't want people to think that we're just doing everything right because we know what we're doing. Not at all. We're just lucky. It's different. It's child' iss different. right Every child is different. and And she just has reminded me that throughout the grief of trying to have a baby, finding your baby in a weird way, you not only find your baby, but you also re-find yourself. Yeah.
00:49:47
Speaker
I've found new identity with sunflower here, marigold here when she's here, or she's here or here or here or pulling my hand or wherever she is now.
00:49:58
Speaker
And i'm I'm actually thankful for it. I didn't want to go through this. No woman wants to go through this. No woman imagines imagines that she will go through this. But statistically, we know that they do. We know that one in three women will walk this path, millions of women around the world.
00:50:15
Speaker
And I am...
00:50:19
Speaker
privileged to be walking alongside this with so many incredible people who have shared their stories and I hope that by people hearing that miracles can happen the pain and joy can both coexist together you don't have your baby and forget about the one you lost I will never forget about sunflower I love sunflower I have sunflowers all over our home we have sunflower vase we planted sunflowers I'm getting a sunflower tattoo on my arm.
00:50:52
Speaker
Sunflower. 0408. 2024. A lot of fours in that. A lot of fours in that. It is your number. And I know that for you listening right now and for people affected, keep going even when you can't because I believe in miracles and I believe everyone will find their number four.