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2: Who is Agatha Prime?
136 Plays2 months ago
The intrepid trio of Lauren, Ben, and Rie are back(!!) for a second episode 🎉 that is also kind of their first. 🤔
For our esteemed listeners’ consideration:
- Surely Rie wouldn’t spend all her tokens on Emperor Hulkling purely out of spite from the last episode 😏
- The functionality of the new Activate keyword is speculated on
- The hosts rate the cards from the upcoming Spider-Verse season & play hype man for Madame Web and Araña
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Part of the Snap Judgments Network.
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Transcript
Welcome and Episode Recap
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to Episode 2 of Snap on This. If 2 is a surprising number to you, we are counting last week's takeover of Snap judgments, Episode 64, as our Episode 1.
Week in Snap: Personal Experiences
00:00:14
Speaker
We're going to start this week as we always do in this long-standing tradition. How was your week in Snap, Ben? And keep it snappy.
00:00:24
Speaker
All right, well, keeping it snappy. The week has been pretty good. I am having a lot of fun. I'm having much more fun than usual in post infinite ladder. I think a lot of that is because of bounties and I sort of remove the pressure from myself and I just stop paying attention to wins and losses as much and I still get results. I don't know. I don't want to make it sound like I just sort of effortlessly
00:00:50
Speaker
dance through card games. I just, I'm having fun and winning games and it's going well. I'm playing some classic decks, I'm playing some new decks and I'm just, I'm playing the cards I love and they're performing well and that feels better than when they aren't performing well. So I'm having a good time. I think I might try for a top 1000 this month.
Ranked Ladder Challenges and Goals
00:01:10
Speaker
I love to hear that. I think that the ranked climb is really fun to do, but it's such a heavy grind. I try to do it just like... I've only tried it two months so far. January and I don't know what the last time was, like May or something. Anyway, moving on, how was your week in Snappery?
00:01:27
Speaker
I've been slacking mostly. So this week I was trying to get a little more caught up on Conquest. I worked through a lot of my silver tickets because I had a pile. From all the times you just play Proving Grounds. You don't want to actually play Conquest. How big are we talking? How big is this pile? I think the pile was somewhere around 15.
00:01:58
Speaker
back in silver tickets to the ceiling yeah that's that's respectable i have like 40 right now and it's out of control and ridiculous that's okay that's the that's the ceiling yeah see it's a lot i would have that high though if i didn't if i hadn't actually been playing more louder than usual so
00:02:19
Speaker
Yeah, so I finally got through that and I did my first gold run and I got my first infinite ticket with me Gokulips with my comfort deck that I've been playing a lot because I had a hard month. But my battle three was against Loki Arisham, so I'm proud to have won.
00:02:44
Speaker
Okay, so occasionally a Loki will beat me, but I do win a lot against Loki with my meek ocolypse deck, and I think it is because it's not like basic discard, like what you'd get if you were to auto build a discard deck, because I have strong guy in there, I have sword master, it's built a lot gambit, it's built a lot around reducing your hand to nothing.
00:03:15
Speaker
So when Loki gets their hands on my cards, can they play my deck better than me? I dare anyone to play a re-deck better than me. It's actually a bit of a problem when I share decks, to be honest.
00:03:33
Speaker
The way I play, I think the way I think about playing is different enough from a lot of people that it's like I think they struggle to use my decks that work really well for me.
00:03:44
Speaker
Yeah, and there's like no way to warn people about it without sounding like the worst, you know?
Game Strategies: Dynamic vs. Rigid Playstyles
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah. This deck requires a very big brain. Yeah, like it's tricksy. So I think I love building. So like, right, think about if you're playing board games, some people play, like a lot of my friends play, and from the first round of like a seven round board game, they have this epic plan they're going to try and execute, right? And if they can pull it off, they're going to win.
00:04:13
Speaker
you know, screws it up their hose. And I tend to play in a much more versatile way. Like I like to every I like to play based on what's happening. So to me, like the locations that come out, I'm gonna it's like, everything I'm doing is keeping things as flexible as possible for me in the future.
00:04:32
Speaker
And maybe sometimes they have a loose plan for the future. And that's how I build my decks with a lot of versatile. It's why I love Mikko so much anyway. And it's just like some people that they need, they're like, what are the lines? You know what I mean? Like, what are the three? What's my turn three, four, five? And it's like, well, what are your locations? What are they playing? You know, like, that's how I do it. I mean, to a degree, everyone does that, but I'm like, I really, I really get into that side of it. Yeah, you're playing something very dynamic.
00:05:01
Speaker
I'm a big fan of a modular, adaptive kind of game plan. Yeah. Roll with the punches. Me too. That's probably why we like small cards or weird cards. That's exactly it. A lot more flexible. And that's how you beat Loki. Play your weird ass deck. You know what I mean? Play your deck that's not a meta deck. That's not easy to just pick up the pieces of and throw down on a board.
00:05:30
Speaker
If they keep drawing cost-reduced 2 and 3 cost cards, they're not like really getting ahead in the grand scheme of things the way they would be if they were getting cost-reduced 4 and 5 cost cards. Yeah, they're getting like a bigger percentage of the card off, but they're only getting 3 draws or something, right? So maybe 4 draws.
00:05:55
Speaker
or five if they play Loki on turn two with Arisham. Anyway, yeah, they're limited on draws, right? Yeah. This is what I find to be the biggest shame about losing the old weird world. I'm okay with the new one, but the old one I had received so much joy from beating Arisham decks when they took my deck and I got their random deck and I won even though I had less energy.
00:06:20
Speaker
it happened several times. And it's just because I play a weirdo deck that they aren't ready for. And maybe they're missing some synergy by the time they're drawing cards from my deck. When that's
Card Interactions and Strategy Depth
00:06:32
Speaker
what I miss. Okay, like so about world weird world, what I enjoyed about it was something you never thought about in any other game was the interacting the cards that interact with decks, right?
00:06:47
Speaker
So all of a sudden, like, I'm not playing a koi ei, right? Because they're going to get the benefit. And so there's all these cards that you draw and they draw that are going to interact with your decks. And it was like, that was a fun and interesting way for me to like, you know, I don't have something different to think about in the card game. And that's like, that's gone. When they play new Loki, and they're giving you your deck at a discount. Thank you.
00:07:12
Speaker
Right, and a lot of people don't think about that, and that's part of probably why they hate Weird World, is because, like, they didn't think about that, and now they did something to help their opponent. They just want to play Rock Slide and not worry about it. Yeah, right, but I enjoyed that aspect, and it made me feel, it made me feel much smarter than them. When I did play it, weird world is up.
00:07:33
Speaker
Weird World's up with Lechugia and you just keep dumping cars on Lechugia and you're like, here take all the rocks, they're yours. They removed Weird World because it was overwhelmingly unpopular. So I feel like if we were to get mail, we would get a bunch of hate mail from all the people like, stop rather than listening about Weird World. I don't think we're going to win a lot of hearts and minds. Like all the good old days of Weird World.
00:08:01
Speaker
Anyway, so that was my first infinite ticket. I beat a Loki Irish and I was like, you just... Just try to play my deck better than me. You can't do it.
Humor in Gameplay: Stories and Anecdotes
00:08:15
Speaker
You come at the re, you best not miss. To sum up my weekend snap, it's been fine, but I would like to tell a little story about a certain title in the game.
00:08:30
Speaker
I was knocking out Alliance bounties the other day. I did six or so of the move seven cards in one match. I did like six of them in a row. Playing a silly deck, a silly fun deck where that's all the point. That's the whole point is to move cards. I don't care win or lose. So that's part of the reason why I have a giant pile of silver tickets is because I'm doing bounties and proving grounds.
00:08:53
Speaker
And I was winning a handful and I was like, you know, I have so many silver tickets. I should go there. I'm not going to win a ton. But if I do, I at least get more than 15 medals. So I'm hanging out in silver. I lose like four matches in a row. I'm like, OK, fine, next match. I'm just I'm going to drop the I'm losing because I'm getting hit by the like the rude emotes from a winner. I'm like, guys, I'm not even like it. Isn't it obvious that I'm not I'm not trying to win. I'm playing a silly bounty deck.
00:09:20
Speaker
Anyway, I was taking it personally, which is not good. I advise against doing so. But I go right into the match, snap on turn one, hit I'm losing, my opponent snaps too, and I'm like, oh, well, wouldn't it be funny? And sure enough, I win the eight cuber.
00:09:36
Speaker
Nice. They stay for the next match. I win that too. Ben, you'd be proud. I won that turn six by playing Polaris alone. And she pulled the card into Fisk Tower and Kingpin. It was beautiful. Oh, that's 11 points right there. I felt so bad for the fakeout. I'm losing and then just destroying this opponent. Oh my gosh, you deceived them.
00:10:02
Speaker
Don't you know that this was supposed to be fun and casual and just for the bounties and there you are crushing dreams. I felt like such a jerk and then it goes to like the finale screen and it shows me winning and it shows my title that was randomly selected from my favorites list. Kind of a jerk. And I was like, it was relieving. It was like, oh, I told them up front. I felt so much better.
New Cards Discussion: Emperor Hulkling
00:10:32
Speaker
Anyway, that's why that title is one of my favorites. I don't usually let it happen randomly. I usually pick it when I'm playing a Sandman deck or something. Here's the hilarious other side to this story. Where the player matches Lauren. He sees Lauren's whole get up and is like,
00:10:54
Speaker
Click mute. Do you see the emotes the entire time? That is possible. Yeah, they were just, maybe they thought they were improving grounds and they were doing an eight cube. I don't know. I don't know what happened. Anyway. Also, I couldn't find a good opportunity to weave this in, but jerking hard or hardly jerking. Okay. Now that I've gotten that off my chest.
00:11:26
Speaker
fit in so naturally, too. I know, what a segue. This week's new card, Emperor Hulkling, is a 611. At the start of the game, copy the text of a random six-cost card. Last week, Ben was very against this card. I was so, so on this card. I think it's bad. I thought it would be bad, but that it would have an okay cube, right? And Ree felt like being a contrarian is my understanding of what happened.
00:11:54
Speaker
How do we feel about Hulkling now that you maybe got your hands on him? Also, did you get him? I have not acquired him yet, but I was tempted mostly for the podcast, to be honest. Because I don't think I have ever condemned a card in such strong terms.
00:12:21
Speaker
You know, I still don't. Resources are finite. There are cool cards coming up in the coming seasons. So I don't think I'm going to do it just for the Lulls, if you will. But I have done a lot of... I was scouring Twitter for the best Emperor Hulkling decks.
00:12:42
Speaker
And I have to say, I'm not convinced. I saw a lot of really good players saying, I'm doing okay with this. And, you know, they have thought of more clever things to do with Emperor Hulkling than I would have. And that doesn't surprise me because as I have stated and will state again, I'm team small cards. I'm not even thinking about what to do with a large thing. I mean, like, it doesn't shock me that I didn't crack the code. I saw a promising Black Knight Emperor Hulkling deck.
00:13:11
Speaker
I've seen a couple other things. It mostly seems like you should probably play Magneto or Red Hulk or a good card. In fact, the first time I ran into Emperor Hulkling, I took a screenshot on my phone because it was the aforementioned bad Magneto. And yeah, above average Hulkling is worse than normal Magneto is my feeling. Yeah.
00:13:37
Speaker
That's Emperor Hulkling. I wish everyone who got him the best and I hope everyone's having a lot of fun. Ray, did you get him? Okay. So in a little deja vu to this podcast episode, as I mentioned, I have very limited resources as well in a specific spotlight key plan. And I had 6,300 tokens.
00:14:05
Speaker
and plenty of cards I don't have. So did I get a whole thing? Yes, yes I did.
Creative Deck Building with Agatha
00:14:12
Speaker
Where are we on collections, the three of us? Like how many cards are we missing? Six-ish? Okay. Around there, I used to know exactly. My collection level is 16k something, I think. I don't know. I don't... I'm not about the numbers, Ben.
00:14:34
Speaker
I like to know, do we have the cards, most of the cards, some of the cards? I don't know. No, you just cut me off guard. This is where people used to be able to rattle off my PC specs and brag about everything I built. I used to know exactly how many cards I was missing. I'm pretty close to exactly what my collection level was, and now I don't.
00:15:02
Speaker
I think that the cards is more important than the collection level. Okay, so yes. I'm missing Ajax. There are cards I could get that are considered good meta cards. Supergiant's been one I may be worth playing with. I'm missing Proxima and Corvus. Oh, that's so gross, Lauren. Why? I know, but you love discard and I don't. They seem like easy skips.
00:15:32
Speaker
Okay, yes. That's exactly why you should skip cards. Did you get Hulkling to spite us? Mostly, yes. Mostly, yes. I appreciate your honesty. I'm sorry that I forced you into that corner. Now I feel bad. Okay, all right. Here's why you were incorrect. Remember how I said, if I got Hulkling, I would make a deck that would make you eat your words?
00:16:02
Speaker
Okay. We see where this ends. Okay. So yes, I got Hulking. Here's the first thing I did with Hulking is I opened a new deck and I put Hulking in. And of course immediately I put Wiccan in so they could be together. Cause as I said, they're very cute. So that was our first step. Third, Agatha. Okay. And this is before we knew all the facts about Hulking. I think we knew enough of the facts.
00:16:31
Speaker
The name of the deck is called, will the real Agatha please stand up? Because the goal is to get Hulkling and Agatha to both be Agatha and then determine who is Agatha Prime. You know, who reigns supreme? Who gets to decide where the cards go? Which one is further to the left? These are the questions we needed to know and answer. Which one plays itself immediately? Like I needed, this is...
00:16:57
Speaker
This is the goal. No, these are good questions for science. All right, and this wasn't just me being ignorant. No, you're a hero. We didn't know at the time that facts we knew later, the tragic ending, spoilers. There's a bit of a tragic ending to this tale. There's triumph. There's got to be heartbreak. Anyway, so.
00:17:23
Speaker
Agatha, Quicksilver, Domino. All the three discards, we got Sif, Moon Knight Gambit, right? You know, classic, I was like, Ghost Rider, you gotta pull back your Agatha or Hulkling somehow. Seriously? Because that's fun. And what else are you gonna do with Quicksilver and Domino?
00:17:45
Speaker
And blink, and okay, I have to give credit to my friend Frank for this one, because I was like, what's the last card? I did build this on stream. What's the last one we put in? And he was like, okay, but blink, then you can turn Wiccan into Hulkling. I'm like, ah.
00:18:08
Speaker
So what else are you going to do? Okay, believe it or not, I kept winning with this fucking deck.
00:18:19
Speaker
Because here's the thing. I haven't actually played Agatha in so long because I like to play games. I don't like to watch other people play games. She said as a streamer. So I don't like to watch Agatha play. I prefer to play. But this was so fun.
00:18:40
Speaker
Because here's the thing. Actually, Agatha played Wiccan for us a lot, which let her play herself a turn early. You know what I mean? Because Wiccan's my only four-cast card. Well, Ghost Rider's in there, too.
00:18:57
Speaker
I guess kind of working like an Agatha. I almost said I was going to stream until I got a Hulkling to be Agatha, and I'm so glad I didn't make that commitment. Yeah. OK. Yeah, I kind of wanted to know the answer for science. We put together this deck. OK. And I took it to conquest, proving grounds. OK. And we come up. Come up.
00:19:27
Speaker
And it's Loki Arisham, okay? This is like the very first game with this deck, is Loki Arisham like, ah, the meta deck, the meta deck. Will we crash and burn so hard that we'll have to admit Ben Roller was right about Hulkling? This is the stakes. Okay, so you know, it comes out, so Agatha plays,
00:19:57
Speaker
Quicksilver, Domino. They'd play Loki on turn three. They'd play Loki on turn three. And then they retreat, and then they concede. The top meta deck, the top meta deck, right now. Sounds conclusive to me. Retreated, conceded. Yeah. Take my deck, take my deck, Loki, Aysham.
00:20:29
Speaker
Enjoy my Agatha thing. But we still don't have an answer on the Agatha thing. So, okay, so then later, so I did have to end the stream after, you know, some hilarious victories, to be quite honest with you. The other deck we might have made was gonna be all the Hulks plus Hulking. We were work shopping names, like Oodles of Hulk Bootles.
00:20:54
Speaker
Um, box of hulks anyway. Okay. Good index. So that was one big idea. I want to take credit for it. Um,
00:21:04
Speaker
Later we find out there's a team answer where someone's like, hey, is there any, are there any cards Hoechling won't copy? So we know there's an error with Hoechling where he can copy himself and they didn't intend for that and they're going to fix it. And they're like, okay, yes. Also, he can't copy Agatha and Thanos. And I had to be like, well, it was all in vain. It was all for nothing. Who is Agatha Prime, Agatha? Agatha is always Agatha Prime.
00:21:34
Speaker
Agatha all along. It was Agatha. So what's your ruling on Hulkling? Oh, okay. So honest ruling playing anecdotally, the card he turned into most for me was infinite. So, you know, I was just like, oh, oh, you're a sweet child. No, not infinite. So, okay. So, you know, there's that.
00:22:03
Speaker
But epic moment, I don't remember. I'm going to say it was a lot of cubes, but I honestly don't remember, of a Destroy Deck where Hulkling was a 640, because he was a Noah when we were playing a Destroy Deck. And this brings about the point of Hulkling.
00:22:19
Speaker
is that you can't play around Hoechling because you don't know as an opponent because you don't know what Hoechling is. So did they have any clue that I had a Hoechling knoll, a knoll that beats their knoll in my hand? No. So the thing with Hoechling is he is not a card that you can build strategies around, but he is a card that can win you cubes.
00:22:45
Speaker
So where hoe clean goes from what i can see is is jacks like where you're putting in a bunch of big sixers so like that's why agatha worked for him right.
00:22:58
Speaker
That's why my Agatha decked work, even if he couldn't be an Agatha himself. Like a Hela deck, where you're like, wouldn't it just be Swell if he was in an Arnhem Zola that copied your other big, you know, like card you pulled? So that, and I think Ramp, where you're like, you know, you have a bunch of Sixers, you're not probably even gonna play all of them, and maybe he was a good one. He's kind of a wild card.
00:23:22
Speaker
So I think that's Hoechling's home is going to be either like discard style ramps, other style ramps, or like nonsense meme decks, you know, that you can just have fun with and maybe don't trigger very often, but gets you cubes when they do.
00:23:38
Speaker
That's my real thing, but I had fun. It was worth, and I made the top meta deck. Well, I guess you could argue about the top meta deck, but in my mind anyway, it knelt to me and Hulkling, so I win. That's where I'm at. Oh, yeah. Toward the oppressor, all that.
00:24:04
Speaker
That's great.
Card Mechanics and Player Preferences
00:24:06
Speaker
I worry a little bit about... I mean, I think I see why Emperor Hulkling probably performs better in a discard ramp kind of thing, but even there he could really throw a wrench into the works if you're trying to reanimate things and you can't control what you're discarding. If you're sifting out your big things, you resurrect a Destroyer, you still play Destroyer.
00:24:33
Speaker
He was a destroyer in my hand and unable to be played, therefore that did happen. So... That's what makes the Black Knight deck the most appealing to me if we're talking about making Hulkling good. Now, I am entirely in favor of cards that are just fun. It's just you have to know if that's how you want to spend your resources, like they are scarce, they are precious, and if you're going to spend them on fun cards, you're going to miss some good cards and you have to be okay with that.
00:25:02
Speaker
That's part of the reason. Series four card. Yeah, right. It's part of the reason why I skip Proxima and Corvus. There are sometimes I see a discard deck that looks really fun and I would love to have them and I know they're good cards, but I also know that I would hardly ever use them. And so I decided to save those keys for cards that seem more fun to me, not necessarily strong cards. Yeah, I've played three hours since Hulkling's release. I haven't seen him once.
00:25:30
Speaker
So maybe that's a good thing. Yeah, I ran into a few. So I can't really say a lot about him. I haven't played him and I haven't seen opponents play him. I think I lost to one, but I could have. Maybe.
00:25:49
Speaker
I am so irritated that he can't copy Thanos or himself. This is just as somebody who loves the mechanics of the game and the parts of the cards that go deeper than the text. I don't see why he shouldn't copy Thanos, other than it sucks when Hulkling starts in your hand. But that should be part of hitting a random six cost, is there are bad hits.
00:26:16
Speaker
If you ask me, I think Destroyer is a worse hit than Thanos. Oh yeah. So it really bothers me that Thanos isn't there. And so that people don't complain about him not generating stones, maybe, but we've already addressed that with Arashim. When Arashim generates Thanos, he doesn't make stones, but he does start in your hand. I don't know. It bothers me mechanically that he can't do that. Do you wish it just worked like the shield card generation stuff?
00:26:46
Speaker
Yeah, I wish it was a true random six card instead of one that had three or four exceptions. But they do want into problems then, like the whole question of the Agatha thing, that they would have to figure out who wins in Agatha versus Hulkling.
00:27:03
Speaker
Well, I could tell you if you wanted to get really into it, but... Because Agatha starts in your hand at the beginning of the game, and Hulkling copies at the beginning of the game. Beginning of the game happens only once, so Hulkling Agatha would not start in your hand. Now, if they were both in your hand, which... I thought the question was about which one would get played from hand first. Yeah, which one is doing the playing? That I don't know.
00:27:28
Speaker
And it's an important question. But like, okay. So that's not a real thing, but I won't lie. All of you talking made me want to mess with holering in a destroy deck. Cause I haven't found like a fun offbeat destroy deck for me. That's not like normie destroy.
00:27:43
Speaker
It's like, you're right, you can get a destroyer, you can get a null, you can get an item Zola. Zola. I'm not surround with it. I feel like there's fun for me to be had with it. Galactus. Galactus. I see why people are really down, and I agree. If you're someone that doesn't want a fresh card, you may not be the card, but I don't regret. I mean, you're talking to the person who spent 6K tokens on Makari, who was high on Makari before Makari released and stayed high after
00:28:14
Speaker
Wait, did you like Mikari when it was a 3-3? I liked Mikari all the time, to be honest, yes. Ah, interesting. And I have no regrets about spending tokens with her, and she's been amazing for me.
00:28:26
Speaker
Oh, no, it's a real card for sure. It's the kind of decks you play. And I know part of the reason my decks succeed is because I'm not playing, you know, people don't always know how to play against a deck. They don't see all the time. I'm familiar with it. That's the off meta strength is you're you're you may not be playing the strongest thing, but you have an edge because your opponent has no idea what they're playing.
00:28:48
Speaker
Right, where they've seen like Deadpool destroy or, oh man, I wanted to complain about it. Who keeps putting swarms with Dracula? I keep facing all these other discard ducks and they've got Dracula and swarms and Helicarrier. And it's like, I want to tell people that they can do them, but like, no, no, don't put Dracula with those cards. Dracula does not go with Helicarrier, he does not go with swarms.
00:29:14
Speaker
Swarm's fine because you can dump your zeroes. Unless you draw Swarm on turn six, which is unfair. I've gotten sick of it. I'm not doing it anymore. That's actually why I built the discard deck I was talking about before we started recording. That's why this deck used to run Chavez.
00:29:32
Speaker
I've beaten those other discard decks that I faced by getting them to have to like yeah here I've hit you with my moon knight now you just have more chances on turn six for your Dracula to hit that swarm you have
00:29:49
Speaker
I've been beating them and part of it is because my Dracula deck, my Dracula's get big. They're not fucking getting this one. Anyway, I just, I don't know. Someone put a deck out there. I've seen a lot of Helicarrier. I don't know if some big content creator put one out, but like all of a sudden I've seen a lot of Helicarrier discard with Dracula. There is somebody who's like top 10 who's running Helicarrier right now. I can't think of who it is.
00:30:17
Speaker
I disagree very much with their inclusion of Dracula in the deck, to be honest. Okay, sorry. Now that you mention it, most of the times I beat Dracula, it's because it hits form. Okay, I cannot believe how much we talked about Hulkling. We're gonna move on. I'm glad we did. I think it was fruitful.
Upcoming Game Updates: Spider-Verse Season
00:30:39
Speaker
It's a card. We're gonna move on to next season, or next week's cards, which next week starts a new season, Spider-Verse season. I'm very excited about that, at least character-wise. I love Spider-Verse characters. We're gonna rank all of them, not just talk about the Season Pass card and the spotlight card. Included in our ranking,
00:31:05
Speaker
is Uncle Ben in Tombstone, who we don't know 100% sure are coming this season, but it feels really likely. They're Spider-Man characters, and we know that there's a new card acquisition system coming. I think they should be in their own separate division since we don't know how they're going to be acquired, and also it's kind of funny just to pit Uncle Ben against Tombstone.
00:31:27
Speaker
I agree that that's really funny. I agree that's really funny, but if a player doesn't acquire them the normal way, the first way, the snap packs way, then it's in the future these will be token cards and spotlight cards. So I think that there's an argument for including them. I'm happy to go either way though. What do you think, Rhi? Okay, honestly,
00:31:55
Speaker
I just want to talk about the activate keyword because that affects how I rank everything. And honestly, when I come down with this, I agree with Ben because that's how I already thought about the cards to be honest. Okay, we will do them separate. I think it's more information if they're stacked with the others. You will know if I like Uncle Ben or Tombstone more by which one is ranked higher among the seven.
00:32:24
Speaker
I don't have a strong opinion on this. All right. Well, rock, paper, scissors, this. How shall we? I don't know. Are you prepared to fit them into your seven? They're number six and seven for me. I don't I don't know where they would fit. I think Uncle Ben would be somewhere in my top five, but I don't think Tombstone would be. OK, well, spoilers.
00:32:53
Speaker
Okay, let's do them separately, but then try to shove them in also at the end. Let's do both. Okie dokie. Okay, because we'll go in release order anyway. Alright, here is my problem with the activate key. Sorry, I was noodling this before the podcast, so it's like on my head. Alright, so I know everyone's been thinking about, hey, can you layer it with playing cards?
00:33:16
Speaker
Um, or is it just like all activates all, you know, like that kind of, but for me, the biggest, most important thing that we really don't know is can you activate a card, a turn, the turn you play it.
00:33:29
Speaker
And we've been thinking, no. But that means that almost all activate cards are not useful on turn six, which ruins most of them. That's really a big thing for me. I don't tend to play a lot of cards. Because like I was talking about earlier, my play style tends to be more versatile. I want to have the most options that I can on any given turn. And having dead cards in my hand on turn six,
00:33:55
Speaker
It kills me because I am a huge Jessica Jones fan. I read Alias, which is her original comic that Brian Michael Bendis invented her back in the day before it was a TV show. I was doing my nerd hipster thing where you've got to read this comic, Alias. No one gave a shit about it. Anyway.
00:34:16
Speaker
I'm not bitter about that. But I won't play her because she's not good on turn six. And so it's like all of these activate cards are way lower for me because of that, to be honest with you. But I think there are tons of cards in the game that aren't good on turn six. Yeah, looting cards that you play. I mean, right?
00:34:40
Speaker
Moon Knight? That's that crucial turn six Moon Knight. Yes! I do! To discard Apoc again, so when Drag hits him, he's even fucking bigger then. All right. But you see what I'm saying. Do I want to play Gambit on turn six? Yes. Right? Do I want to play Meek? Yes, and I'm playing Modok right after him. Like, you know, that's how I build my decks. Huh?
00:35:05
Speaker
Okay, okay. But the upside to an activate card is you can play it on any turn one through five, assuming the energy is there, and then use it on turn six. You're already getting like so much flexibility that way. And also, if like, if all activate cards have haste, it's just better than on reveal. Magic the gathering speak. I mean, are we going to pretend that we don't know about other card games? Okay.
00:35:36
Speaker
I guess we could call it a rush or whatever. What were you saying? If they all had haste, what? Yeah, if they all have haste, it's just better on reveal. It's just anything on reveal can do. Activate with haste can do. Is it just that activate services, you know? That would be one way to do it. That does not appear to be the approach they've taken, though.
00:36:01
Speaker
That's true. There's some very strong activate effects like Fenris Wolf. Their strength is that you can pay for them ahead of time, but then use their ability later. There's a bunch of on reveals that would be very strong if you could do that. It's an upgrade. Even if it is less flexible on turn six specifically, I think in general, I would rather have any effect as an activate.
00:36:26
Speaker
As a general rule, I'm sure there are edge cases where on-reveal is the right thing for the effect, but I think overall the power level of activate is higher than on-reveal. The trade-off for me, I think, is three or below. I don't want to have a four or up cost card that I can't play on turn six. You know what I mean? I agree, it does get a little... Like Spider-Ham. Stuff like that, where it's like, okay, if I draw that late, fine.
00:36:55
Speaker
But I mean, and it's just it's just my playstyle. I'm not saying like like it's it's wrong or they're not strong enough if you can't play them turn six. I just I love to have all of my options and having dead cards.
00:37:09
Speaker
in my hand in turn six just like, just bums me out. Yeah. I get
Card Mechanics Deep Dive: Activate vs. On-Reveal
00:37:15
Speaker
that. It is limiting to their power level. A couple of the cards we're going to talk about, I think it is a meaningfully double-edged effect on the big ones here, your Scarlet Spider and your Symbiote Spider-Man. They're kind of pushing it. I agree. That's like a four cost with activate is not as good as a two cost with activate for the reason you've described.
00:37:38
Speaker
Yeah, and you don't get to like surprise your opponent with it. I mean, maybe that's an argument for a strong argument towards they will let you sequence with on reveals because that's one of the biggest advantages. That would be one of the biggest advantages for a high cost activate card is that it lets you time it with your on reveals. But being able to see it coming is a
00:38:02
Speaker
is the big debt. I mean, look at like Wong, right? I mean, he's running wild now because nobody respects Cosmo anymore. But like, it's like, but like it used to be Wong never got played. Because like, as soon as you saw it coming, you threw it down. And that's because you know how powerful Wong was. And it really shows the power creep in the game, that like Wong is so prevalent and people still aren't just playing Cosmo randomly.
00:38:28
Speaker
You know, to be honest, right? For me, personally, I always excuse myself from thinking about Cosmo by playing Spider-Man or Magneto because they also screw with Wong hardcore. And Juggernaut, that was my counter to Wong. Yeah, that's fair. I like Clog.
00:38:52
Speaker
So I will say that I am, I'm taking the reading of activate that you cannot activate on the turn that the card is played. And I have taken that reading of it and it affected my rankings, obviously to a much greater degree than either of you. I'm ready. Yeah. Can, can we maybe agree and if we can't, we'll discuss it, but can we agree activate is like either you expand the card and hit activate or you long press the card somehow.
00:39:22
Speaker
You use the ability on a face up card and you can sequence it with on reveals. I think that's the most likely. Okay.
00:39:33
Speaker
But I think it's also worth mentioning how it would affect a card if it doesn't layer like that. I will say, I'm a little more high on the thought that maybe all activates would happen before on reveals. Just because I do think Second Dinner, their design philosophy has always been to keep it as simple as possible and as intuitive as possible, and layering things in a Magic the Gathering order of attack operations.
00:40:01
Speaker
as we've previously discussed, they've been trying to avoid. So while I do think it does make sense, maybe you can layer them. I am, I am not, I would not at all be surprised if they're just like all activates, all on reveals. It could definitely be either thing with the information we have at the moment.
00:40:18
Speaker
But I think they want the game to be intuitive, like easy to use and not a lot of interface clutter, but they get elegance by extracting complexity from simple interactions. Like you can play a card in any of three lanes. That's a decision not just on timing, but on location is a huge decision that makes the game more complex, but in like little tiny bite-sized pieces over and over again. And so I think, yeah, argument for either side.
00:40:45
Speaker
Yeah, like the way they recently gutted move, I don't know. That would seem to lend some credence to Ree's interpretation. The move change is the only reason we're even really discussing it, right? Like if move hadn't changed, we would just assume activate was sequenceable. Yeah, I think we're right. We'll discuss both outcomes or both possibilities with each of the activate cards as seems applicable.
00:41:16
Speaker
And also think about the complexity of trying to think about what your opponent's doing as well as what you're doing. It's just easier if when you're thinking about what they're doing, you know what I mean? All activates and then unreveals. I don't know.
Exploring New Cards: Symbiote Spider-Man and Others
00:41:29
Speaker
We will find out, I guess. Okay, first card, our Season Pass card, Symbiote Spider-Man is a 4-6 with the keyword activate. Merge your lowest cost card here with this. Copy its text like it just revealed.
00:41:48
Speaker
Well, this is my number two. It's my number three. Wait, is one the best? Yes. That's a very good question. It is my number four, I think, to be honest. And once again, it's the activate. It's a four up cost.
00:42:12
Speaker
It's a four up cost that maybe I can't play on six and that bums me out. That's definitely its biggest downside is it is an expensive activate card, which means you're repeating what, a five cost or something that you played in one of the first few turns. Unless you can sequence, then you can play a six cost card and then activate somebody else, Spider-Man, which is going to be a cool Galactus play. That would be cool. Yes.
00:42:43
Speaker
I think that there's a tempting, like you want to compare it to maybe Absorbing Man or something because it's the same cost and it does a kind of similar thing. Or you could say it's like an Odin Hulkbuster kind of thing. I mean, it's got a lot of familiar elements that we've seen before, but I think the activate might be hurting it a little bit for the reason we were discussing.
00:43:07
Speaker
I can't think of anything. Well, I can think of some things that are exciting to do with Symbiote Spider-Man, but I don't think I've really thought about everything. I bet he's good in Nomura decks. I also think that depending on how activate works, if it does happen to go
00:43:26
Speaker
If it can be interspersed with on reveals, you can have a lot of fun probably with Black Panther and Arnim Zola. So like you play Panther and then put the symbiote Spider-Man activation on. So Black Panther doubles up to eight and then
00:43:45
Speaker
Symbiote Spider-Man is what, a 4.6, is that correct? Yeah, so then it goes 14, and then it doubles again to 28. And then if you Zola that on the next turn, that's 56 power on two lanes, which traditionally tends to win a game.
00:44:02
Speaker
Yeah, but that is like, you know, that's that's some blue sky solution earring I'm pitching here and like, you know, everything has to go your way and no one can rain on your parade and you have to get the cards in that order more or less, you know, like clog eats him alive. Yeah. Because he targets the lowest. Yeah. Lowest power with that big rock.
00:44:27
Speaker
It's pretty, it's pretty limiting. I think there will be some very clever things that people come up with to do with it. Undoubtedly. I'm very surprised it's the season pass card. It seems a lot more complicated than the other two activate cards. I hope it surprises me. I think I'm just like so expensive and I can't even play it last time. I think it's cool as Shuri.
00:44:50
Speaker
Get a 4-12 and repeat that for going into turn 6. To be fair, Shuri doubles the coolness of any cards. Sorry. I cracked myself up too much. Okay, yeah, doubles the coolness. I think that's what your text says.
00:45:11
Speaker
I do think that there's one small thing is that he kind of has the ability of a vision Nightcrawler where he can unfill a lane. And I think that's actually a really strong ability to unfill a lane. Not just for locations like Raft and White Hot Room, but also it's anti-clog.
00:45:31
Speaker
and your opponent might think that that spot's full and then it's not. Obviously, that's more powerful with the move card, but I still think that that's one thing that he's got going for him. That's definitely a point in his favor. Yeah. Okay. Next card. This will be the same week, but the spotlight is Silver Sable, a 1-1. On reveal, steal two power from the top card of your opponent's deck.
00:46:00
Speaker
I've got this one ranked at number five out of the five spotlight and season pass cards. Same. I think it's worse than America Chavez, a widely underestimated card. And so I think she's probably still sort of fine. You know, America can be part of your deck's plan, but getting extra value from Silver Sable is going to be largely a matter of luck and whatever you can eke out from the affliction synergy.
00:46:27
Speaker
which is just Ajax and Evolved Abomination at this point. So I don't see SilverSable being a must-own for anybody. I don't know. I put her higher in my rankings because she's not an activate.
00:46:50
Speaker
I love a strong preference. She was my number two because she's not an activate card. Holy moly. Here's why though, and I guess she doesn't have all the verse, and I actually am skipping her and it makes me sad because the character's cool and a lot of people are going to get her and be hot on her. But yeah, my opinion is she goes in Ajax decks or bounce decks, particularly bounce decks.
00:47:12
Speaker
Right? And I'm not a fan of bounce, to be honest. And since I don't have Ajax and I'm not going to play and I don't really play bounce, I'm not going to pick her up. But I think she's great in bounce. Right? If you have Ajax, why wouldn't you play? Why wouldn't you have Silver Sable in your deck? I have her down as a bounce card. But I think for Ajax and really like anything Silver Sable is doing, I think Selena is better. Yep. It still depends on Europe.
00:47:42
Speaker
Playing Affliction Zoo, have fun. But I think she'll be good in that genre of deck, in my opinion, as well as just bounce, right? Just pick her up three times and just annoy your opponent. I'm really hoping to get her as the random one from a spotlight cash, you know, because I will be happy to own Silver Sable. I just don't think it will be an effective use of my resources.
00:48:10
Speaker
But no, definitely a cool card. I'm rooting for her. From the fun side too, right? Her with Cassandra Nova, like, you're gonna have a lot of fun when you see them put out. They're like, when they can't play, they're like, three minus one brood.
00:48:29
Speaker
Because when they'd serve for it, they'd have like a 3-1. Is it better to hit the top card of your opponent's deck than it is to hit the lowest power card in their hand? Like honest question, I don't think so. I feel like the card in their hand is... I think hitting the lowest power card is better. I agree, but also just think about throwing her in Cassandra Nova and Wong.
00:48:57
Speaker
Anyway, but yeah, no, I see where you're coming and a lot of my ranking comes from how low I am. The activate ability on particularly the higher the cost cards go. I think that's good thinking. Okay.
Madam Web's Strategic Potential
00:49:15
Speaker
Okay. Next week, Madam Web, now a 2-1, ongoing. You can move one of your other cards away from here each turn.
00:49:28
Speaker
I think this ability is awesome, which makes me not surprised that they changed it from a 2-3 to 2-1 ahead of launch. At 2-3 I think it went in everything. It's not just a move card. This is a card for people who want to dictate the flow of the game. Nowadays I have it as my number three.
00:49:52
Speaker
very excited for her because I think she might revive Lockdown, which is my favorite archetype. Interesting. Because then I can move things into Storm and Professor X. Yeah, you can. But Professor X is so iffy these days. I don't know. I know. It's so sad. Yeah. Sad for me. I mean, it's sad for people to like that strategy.
00:50:21
Speaker
I've got Madam Web at number one, personally. She's obviously great with Dagger and Vulture, two of my favorite cards and their weird little friend, Human Torch, who I don't care for as much. But also, this is a good card with stuff like Hope, Elsa, anything that wants you to start here and go there. Solves unreachable locations. I just think
00:50:47
Speaker
Like so much of the power of move is knowing that you can put the power where you want by the end of the game and This is just more of that and also just such a small commitment just just one card and you are you're dictating the terms for like Where everything goes? I don't know. Are you gonna play this with mystique? Or Hercules
00:51:14
Speaker
Wow. I don't know if Hercules is invited. I kind of think Hercules has a genuinely undesirable effect. Yeah.
00:51:26
Speaker
That it's random where it goes, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I wonder if they someday change him I wonder if he someday change him that he just launches them back to where they came from You know, it's like any of the yeah silly question If you play uh, what's his face? Six seven big guy onslaught if you play onslaught, can you move two cards each turn? I
00:51:56
Speaker
That's a great question. I bet no, but maybe. I would tend to agree. I would tend to agree that it's not. I'm like 40, 60. Do you know what that reminds me of? That reminds me of trying to move Nightcrawler or Jeff onto a cloak lane. You will burn that move. Yes, yes. That's a great example.
00:52:19
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Three. Okay. Thank you. It's my turn. I'm so excited. Madam Love was also my number one and not originally because I was just like, okay, I get the, for me, I'm not a move player. I keep trying mostly so I can play Ben's decks, but like, I'm just like, werewolf is the most I've ever gotten into move.
00:52:42
Speaker
But, um, and that's, you know, like, obviously my move is usually the silky smooth, the Elsa Angela style decks. But my first thought, when I seem to be on the web, is she's a Ravona card. Sorry, Ravona is one of my, one of, one of my favorite cards. So any card that goes with Ravona is something I want to get automatically.
00:53:05
Speaker
So that ties into Professor X, like you were saying. But I was thinking more like, OK, so with Ravona, I'd probably put her with Sage, Ironheart, Shuri, Werewolf, and Wong. She lets you move more stuff off of Wong to move your sage off. You got room for your Ironheart. Yes.
00:53:27
Speaker
Can I mention one card that I think would be good in a Ravona, Madam Web Deck? Iron Man. Changing which lane is getting doubled seems like a cool thing to do. Yeah, and then it would make sense, you know, and then you can, you're also running Mystique probably, right? So it's just, I mean, it all synergizes, right? With Ravona. Okay. And that was my first thought because my heart always goes to Ravona first.
00:53:55
Speaker
But the second, which is a little closer to Lauren's idea, but the second idea, which I think is actually way more exciting and interesting and probably a better deck, is she goes in junk decks so well. Think about putting her in that right column, and they're filling that up because they don't want your void when you annihilate it, right? You know what I mean? And now, boom, void's in a different lane. Boom's the void. That's brutal. You're sentry to get that. I love that. That's very good.
00:54:24
Speaker
And think about your debris and stuff. Madam Webb is a perfect fit for jump decks. Oh my gosh. I love that so much. I love that idea. I know. When I saw that, I'm like, this is it, Madam Webb. You and I will have so much fun together. And she's my number one card now. She'd be a victory card.
00:54:45
Speaker
I kind of, I like her in Jean Grey too, which is something I've been playing a bunch with Spectrum. That's so cool. You can clog up your Jean Grey early and then shove something big in at the end. So me and Ben go, I love how we go opposite ways. Ben's like greatest move card maybe ever. Well, I'm putting weights in your mouth and you said nothing like that. I think it's a great control kind of thing. Yes. It does the thing you should want to do in any game of Marvel Snap where you get to
00:55:12
Speaker
pick where things go at the end. And it's just a great defensive card, right? Think about all the times that'll be useful to you as a defense as well as an offense. Yeah, very anti-clog. But also very pro-clog. You guys are selling me. She needs to be number one or two on my list. Don't think about it.
Aranya in Deck Building Strategies
00:55:36
Speaker
Here at the top. We got webs. All right.
00:55:42
Speaker
A 1-1, another activate, so rehates her. Give the next card you play plus 2 power and move it to the right. Okay, I'll start the time short. Mine's short, then we'll probably have a way to say. She was a number 3 for me because she's an activate, so she went down lower, but she's lower cost and therefore potentially more useful and less likely that I'll be bummed if I can't play her on turn 6.
00:56:12
Speaker
But like, but then, but she's also like, she feels mostly a move card because, right, so I have a big thing where I like to put reach in all of my, like if I have no way to get into a location that is like a sanctum, sanctorum, I'm super bummed.
00:56:31
Speaker
even if it's just Nico for the chance I draw her spell that lets me move something. But usually I want it to be like a Jeff, a silk, somewhere that can go to any location. And this is specifically to the right, so it feels iron fist me, it feels like a very like move centric card, and I don't play a ton of move.
00:56:48
Speaker
Um, so that's like, that's where I'm at. Like I want to open that week. Cause the sage spotlight is so beautiful and the marvel is good, but like, how often will I play around? I don't know. I'll play whatever deck Ben puts it in. So go back. That's my thoughts. That's my feeling.
00:57:11
Speaker
I ranked Aranya at number four. I ranked it a little low just because it's a small card and really good small cards are still not as impactful as really good big cards or medium cards. But yeah, I said last week that this was power creep in action and it absolutely is. Like I feel about as
00:57:33
Speaker
Yeah, positive as I can about a card that I ranked number four. But it does raise for me a question. Can you bounce a card after you've activated it, play it again, and activate it again? Or does it have a single activation charge for its entire lifespan? Related, what if you Zola an activate card that has been spent? Another great question.
00:57:53
Speaker
Okay, I have opinions on this. I think, yes, if you bounce it, they'll let you activate it again. Bouncing isn't so easy, especially with the cost of the cards, that I think they'll be like, that overpowers it too much, especially when you can only activate it again the next turn, right? You're going to have to bounce it fairly early to get an extra use out of it. So why not? So why not give that to them? So I think they will.
00:58:19
Speaker
It seems like a safe thing to allow because of how inconvenient it is to activate something twice because of the summoning sickness that we assume is in effect.
00:58:29
Speaker
There's also that they hate giving you cognitive load. So for you to remember if the activate card in your hand has been used or not is extra cognitive load. So I think that's an argument for, yes, bouncing works. Oh, that's so, I don't need cognitive load. I'm going to use that in other areas of my life. All right. What about Zola? Zola creates two new cards.
00:58:53
Speaker
Right? Okay. I mean, like, because the other on reveals happen again, right? So I don't see why I think so. What about? No, you just What about Legion copying a location and the copied locations have the same status?
00:59:10
Speaker
Like the flooding will flood the same turn now instead of being delayed by one, right? Also when you Zola things, like they keep all their bonus stats, like they have the same life history as the original card, right?
00:59:25
Speaker
Legion has some weird interactions. I kind of think Zola wouldn't give the reactivation potential. That's my guess. You think that? I think it's easier. I think it's easier and more intuitive that you would get activates on them if Zola did it. So I think they'll go with that, to be honest. It'll be really interesting. It would be very hard to pull off, right? Like a Zola magic, I guess, is the answer. But I think there'll be other things. There are other ways to
00:59:55
Speaker
copy your, are there? I don't know. I feel like just like the fact that you can still see all the buffs and the, you know, the stat changes and things. There's going to be, there's like a glow on cards that have activate, right? Definitely, or like rings or something. So I think that if the glow is extinguished, you really think that popping out a new one with Zola is going to put the glow on the card again? I kind of
01:00:24
Speaker
that seems doubtful to me. It's definitely the one I'm least sure of. Okay, what about symbiote Spider-Man if you use him on an activate card that has already activated? Do you get to do it again?
01:00:35
Speaker
Oh, I think I think so. Because his wording is not like it's yeah, it's not mentioning on reveals exactly like. And if those two things work differently, that's more confusing and they don't like that. Yeah. All right. I hope you're right about Zola because I think that's interesting. I think Zola is a really fun combo card that doesn't get used a lot outside of silly things.
01:00:58
Speaker
But I didn't want to point out that I don't think Legion, the way Snowguard works with locations, Legion isn't fully consistent. I think if you Legion Vormir, even if the Vormir your Legion has already spent, the new Vormirs you will have to, again, spend. I think you're right. I think you're right. But there are other locations that the state of the location does transfer. So I don't think it's consistent across the board for Legion. As someone who has pulled a few Legion scans in their life.
01:01:28
Speaker
I will defer to your expertise. Did you say what you wanted to say about Aranya? I think it's great. It's just weird that I had to rank it so low just because of the other very powerful cards this month. It's a very good card and I am looking forward to it more than anything except Madam Web and possibly more than Madam Web because I think I could get annoyed with Madam Web in general. Other people's Madam Web.
01:01:58
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. On that note, I think I'm going to love every Aranya I see. I'm just happy about this card. It's very fun. It's very small. It's very movie. I love it. I have her as my number one right now. I actually think she's extremely flexible. It's not something that I do a ton, but I have probably more than the average player used Iron Fist in non-moved decks for the Reach.
01:02:26
Speaker
You know, you're right. It's in a fixed direction. So, you know, the one third of the time that the location you want to reach is on the left, then Aranya is not helpful. But I think that a lot of decks like doing move, but Iron Fist by itself doesn't justify a deck slot unless you're comboing. Aranya now is also a plus two. And what deck doesn't want plus two? Cerebro is maybe the only deck that doesn't want the plus two?
01:02:56
Speaker
Maybe. Sure. In C2 you use her on Cerebro or Mystique.
01:03:09
Speaker
Gosh, that makes me just thinking about Mystique and Aranya like that You can activate something and it messes up with the timing of your like it doesn't become your last played card when you do the activation Yeah, that makes me so excited. That's fun Anyway, I think that being a plus two that's cheaper than Forge and also a move over one I think every deck is happy to have that and it's a it's a great utility card. It's two Nico spells in one and
01:03:37
Speaker
for one less power. Yep, that's exactly what it is. I... You know, I might be convinced to move Madam Web up, but Aranya is very high and I think she's a wonderful card. She's with some seconds. Lots of cool stuff that you can do with it. From my reading of Aranya, I think that her plus two power works like Forge and not like Niko's and you can do it with her brood. The text is the same. And then you get to split up your brood.
01:04:06
Speaker
I think Nika is after your next card gets plus two after you play it. Which is how all of her spells are worded, right? But I checked, and Aranya is really just like forges. Okay, I have a last note. So fun and surfer.
01:04:24
Speaker
I cannot say her name. I have a last note before we move on though, which is that I had seen her around, but I was not very familiar with her from the comics. But Marvel just came out with a new title.
01:04:40
Speaker
last week or a week ago, it is called the Spider Society. And it features a lot of the Spiderverse movie characters. So it's got Ghost Spider, it's got Miles, Spider-Hams in there. So if you're interested in getting to find out, Aranya is a prominent character there.
01:05:01
Speaker
So if you're interested in learning about these spiders and you want an inn that's easier maybe because you're familiar with the spiderverse characters from the movie, Spider Society number one, it just came out. I picked it up. The first, the first issue is fun. We'll see where it goes. Madame Webb's in there, you know? And these are characters I'm actually read up on in the comics because I've read a lot of spiderverse, definitely the events, but also some of the
01:05:27
Speaker
you know, spinoffs of spider characters. That's my most well-read area of Marvel. Anyway. Cool. I don't know much about Aranya, but I'm excited about the ability. And I would love to learn more about the character. I'm not like, I'm not resistant to learning more lore.
Scarlet Spider's Thematic Gameplay
01:05:44
Speaker
I just, I don't happen to know any yet and I don't need to, but it would be fun. It'd be nice. Might make a trip to my local library.
01:05:54
Speaker
We're going to jump forward one week to Scarlet Spider, a 4-5, another activate. Add an exact clone of this to another location, which is a very thematic ability. Who wants to take this one? I think last time Ben should go first. Alright.
01:06:12
Speaker
I'll say it, this is my number two. So much stats. Where a card like Zemo taking up more board space, that's a disadvantage. You're crowding a single location, really limiting your future there. Oh no, boohoo. But it's an asset for Scarlet Spider because you're guaranteed to go wide. So much stats. Biggest weakness is he's bad on six, as we've discussed. But yeah, just do Sebastian Shaw type stuff with him.
01:06:40
Speaker
You can keep growing him on the board, you can grow him in hand. I mean, this is just a very, I don't know if this card is going to stay like this, because it seems like the math just seems nuts. That's my take. I only have it as number two because Madame Web really lets, it really gives you a lot of control over the game. But Scarlet Spider just seems like undeniable power.
01:07:12
Speaker
He bums me out because obviously if this was an on-reveal, it would be too OP. He's my last place. He would have been my first place if this was an on-reveal.
01:07:26
Speaker
Because I want to Gwen pull. In some ways, isn't he better as an activate? Because then you can buff him. I can't play him on turn six. If I Gwen pull him on four. If I'm playing Gwen pull on four. Off him with Ironheart. But that's limiting the turn. So if my goal is to Gwen pull him, that's one of the ways I want to use him. Now I'm limited to being able to play him on turn one turn, which is turn five, right? It does lock you in for turn five. It's true.
01:07:52
Speaker
So that means, okay, and I do not like to play decent synergistic decks, right? If I'm playing Gwenpool, I want her to hit cards I can play and turn five or six. I don't want her to hit a card that I now can only play and turn five. So therefore I'm not putting Gwenpool in my Scarlet Spider deck, and that ruins it for me. I want to play Gwenpool.
01:08:13
Speaker
So I don't know so it's like this is such a bummer to me because I'm so low on activate I'm so this card cuz I love buff decks. I love but I play okay I played a koi a and the Kia way before they were cool before Nikhil There's still not cool re I'm sorry
01:08:35
Speaker
But anyway, I love, okay, but I love, I put together a Koya Nikia deck, because I love buffing cards. I call it Cardi Buffs. I mean, I'm here out here singing the praises of America Chavez, but I cannot find a kind word for a Koya. Right? But this card is like, it's the card that I want to put in that deck, but because I can't play on six, I just don't, it just, there's other cards I'd rather put. It's like, so. Are you two anti-magic?
01:09:04
Speaker
Are you too anti-magic? I am personally, but when evaluating cards I do like to consider magic, yes. Magic is one of the only cards, one of the few cards I'll put in that I can't play on turn 6. But even then, the bias comes in. I don't tend to play a ton of magic decks. You know, I just have this real thing where it's like I want my cards to all be useful to me on turn 6. Yeah. I'm just saying magic lets you play him on 6.
01:09:34
Speaker
There if I played him when I play him Because I'm sure I'll get him eventually or say with symbiote spider-man I almost certainly if I'm playing activate cards. I'm almost is definitely putting magic in there Yeah, I just for me yeah, I think this is a very strong card well Scarlet spiders my scarlet spiders my five of five interesting
01:10:01
Speaker
I think he has the potential to be strong, but you can smell it from a mile away, right? If he's about to split. If Prio and all that is working how we think and sequencing, if your opponent has Prio, they can shang you before you split Scarlet Spider. I think he, as mentioned, he has the Jessica Jones and rescue problem where he doesn't do his thing on turn six.
01:10:28
Speaker
But that said, I know there are silly combos out there that are going to make him busted. And the question is, is it good enough? And it's kind of a problem that your opponent can just retreat before they happen.
01:10:43
Speaker
Which maybe is another argument for sequencing can happen because then on turn six, you could buff him a bunch. Activate after all the buffs, right? Like you, you Odin deer iron heart on wrong. And then you activate. And if you don't have prior, you can dodge showing it's, uh, no, I think he was powerful. I think he will win games. I think I will tilt so hard every time. I can't play him in turn six. It's just wearing that.
01:11:11
Speaker
It's the way they say it takes three good interactions to make up for one negative interaction you have, because you value that negative interaction so much, even though that's an unhealthy way to live. That's how I feel about Scaryless Spider. It doesn't matter if you won me three games, I'll be so mad about them one time. I really lost it. The thing that really sells the card for me is that it's guaranteed to go wide, and that just
01:11:39
Speaker
It's all about winning two lanes. And I'm not picky about which two. I just, putting power, anything that puts power on multiple lanes is good. Get your Miss Marvels, your Doctor's Doom. It's Claw. Squirrel Girl. Yep. Okay.
Uncle Ben's Transformative Role
01:12:00
Speaker
We'll move on to Uncle Ben.
01:12:04
Speaker
the star of the season, 1-2. How is he not the season pass card? When this card is destroyed, replace it with Spider-Man. We are now moving on to our set of two cards that we think are coming in snapbacks. Uncle Ben versus Tombstone. I feel like the cat's already out of the bag as far as how I feel about Uncle Ben. Does anyone have a surprising opinion they'd like to open this discussion with?
01:12:32
Speaker
Not super surprising, but maybe compared to the rest of this conversation. I super agree with you. Uncle Ben is just like the... It's just fun. It's like fun and good. It's the... It's the... Enthymatic. Everything converges here. Enthymatic. All the things you want in a card have come together. Elegant design. And Uncle Ben. Let us murder him over and over. Yes, we will.
01:13:01
Speaker
We're going to get so many spittermans. Somebody's got to make some version of this joke. Bucky? More like unlucky. Am I right? Am I right? Am I right? One-two is better than two-one in all kinds of decks, not least at which destroy. And that Spider-Man on Reveal is worth more than a point of power. Winter Soldier, not as good as Spider-Man. Sorry, Sebastian. That's just how it is.
01:13:30
Speaker
The swing away, that will mean that Uncle Ben can perhaps imbue a Lady Deathstrike with the little cannonball twist. You clear the small stuff and you relocate whatever was large enough to survive. I'm very excited to play Uncle Ben in all kinds of decks. I'm interested in seeing about a little splash of Destroy in some decks where it wouldn't ordinarily live. It's an inspiring card, I'm excited to build with it.
01:13:59
Speaker
And bringing reach to destroy that it didn't, you know. Except for Zola. Oh, you're right. Zola did give some more options for reach, which is good because I feel like if you have the deck builder create a destroy deck for you now, it's still just the same Deadpool Zola Knoll deck. And it'd be nice to have some more options. Yeah.
01:14:28
Speaker
Even if Spider-Man stands up being Venom food, that's great. I do think that Carnage and Venom are criminally underplayed outside of Destroy. They're great utility cards. Killmonger obviously is like, that is the one Destroy card people are comfy playing outside of Destroy. I shouldn't say the one, there's Deathstrike too, but. I think it's fun to give your opponent a reason they can't play their Killmonger.
01:14:58
Speaker
I mean, if they have X23 and Deadpool on the board, they're going to play it anyway. But if you have Nova and Uncle Ben on the board, you're like, you sure you want to play that, Killmonger? I didn't think about how fun that would be versus enemy Killmongers. I'm really glad you brought up Deathstrike, because I think that's probably the best use, especially outside of Destroydex.
01:15:24
Speaker
I thought of it like right after we recorded the last episode. I was like, damn, that would have been a good thing to mention. Oh, well. Hey, we got to talk about him all over again. And then again, you have not heard the last of Uncle Ben. I tell you one thing.
Tombstone's Gameplay Challenges
01:15:40
Speaker
Are we ready for Tombstone discussion for me? Yeah. Let's let's talk about it. I think. Are we all Uncle Ben over Tombstone? Yes. I think so. Yeah. Personally. Yeah. Yeah. We're versatile. Tombstone.
01:15:51
Speaker
Tombstone a 4-6, costs 1 if an enemy card was destroyed last turn. I don't like this card. 1-6 is great stats, but that it's dependent on destroying an enemy card instead of just any card being destroyed. This is such a harder trigger than what stature or Miles have. I completely agree.
01:16:16
Speaker
And I don't think Destroy plays him, not that Destroy is doing a lot of destroying your cards. Not the traditional Destroy that we were just talking about, that's for sure. Right. So the two decks where I think he goes is something with Deathstrike, which isn't a deck, just like a thought. Like, I think Deathstrike does work with Tombstone. Yeah, Uncle Ben might wave him in, like, he's with me, is my thinking. Right.
01:16:42
Speaker
death bird, which is, you know, the mockingbird death Vex where you're like, playing squirrel girl, you're trying to get your mockingbird cheap, and then you pop a killmonger at the end. So your death is now cheap.
01:16:52
Speaker
Also a silly thing to name a deck when there is definitely going to be a card called Deathbird in the foreseeable future, probably within the next 12 months if I were a gambling person. That's fair. Name them what you want to name them, I guess. But Deathbird is a deck where you might, I don't think every flavor of Deathbird does this, but you might play Debris and Killmonger, which enables Tombstone. I've also seen flavors of...
01:17:20
Speaker
I've seen flavors of Deathbird that run Moon Girl, and this would be another great target for the Moon Girl. At the end of the turn, I'm playing two zero-cost deaths and two one-cost tombstones, and I'm just gonna pop down a whole bunch of power.
01:17:34
Speaker
Tombstone's like a bummer, because when I first quick read the card, I just thought if a card was destroyed last turn, and it's like... Yeah, if it were like stature, he'd be great. He would be the best of any of them if it were a permanent discount statue style. Yes, I think he's just worse than Miles, because it's easier to make sure that a card moves than it is to destroy an opponent's card.
01:17:56
Speaker
Because now you have to play him with like a debris or a, you know what I mean? Like that's the only way I would play him if I had some way to destroy an enemy card for sure, which then you also have to, yeah. It's kind of, it's a bummy. Killmonger is like the most reliable way probably to activate Tombstone and it's still not that reliable.
01:18:17
Speaker
Even if you're gonna do Killmonger or Shong, those are stronger cards to play on the last turn. And so you have to play them early in order to activate Tombstone. Is that worth the extra six point swing? Maybe. I think it's just an awkward thing to like fit into the flow of a game. There's a lot to like about Tombstone, but not enough. I don't know. Agreed.
01:18:47
Speaker
Okay. If you were to jam Uncle Ben and Tombstone into the list of seven, are you ready for this? Oh, who would like to go first? I would put Tombstone at number seven pretty easily, and I would put Uncle Ben below Aranya and above Silver Sable. I would put... What, like your sixth? No, that's your fifth. That would be my new fifth.
01:19:18
Speaker
I agree. I think Teamstone was last. It's a weird combo, but I think Uncle Ben, I would probably move all the way to second because once again, am I activate bias? And I do, I think, I think I would rather have Uncle Ben than Silver Sable to be honest with you. Absolutely.
01:19:44
Speaker
I have Tombstone at 7, Uncle Ben at 4, which is for me between Madam Web and Scarlet Spider, although I think maybe I need to move up Madam Web. Anyway, there's our rankings. Tombstone's gotta get changed, right? Like... He's not even niche good. He's just bad. Yeah, just not quite there. Underbaked.
Upcoming Cards Overview and Resource Tips
01:20:08
Speaker
Alright, so now that we've talked about next season's cards, at least as much as we know about them so far, we'll talk specifically about next week's spotlight to advise your resource spending. It's SilverSable, who
01:20:22
Speaker
Well, Ben and I weren't very high on. Again, a 1-1 on Reveal, steal 2 power from the top card of your opponent's deck. We've already kind of talked about her, so let's also include her spotlight friends who are Mockingbird and US Agent. I think both of those cards are fabulous, and either one alone is worth spending keys on.
01:20:46
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I think they do go in certain types of decks, right? Mockingbird is more of like an Irish M, Loki, you know, or Zoo, like a Squirrel Girl kind of card. Deathbird. Yeah, Deathbird. So you hate all of those kinds of decks, you know?
01:21:07
Speaker
I mean, I don't like Mockingbird myself, but I do think that if you don't own Mockingbird, you probably want to. I mean, unless you have really weird taste like I do, you should have access to Mockingbird if you want to win games and stuff. And I feel similarly about US Agent.
01:21:26
Speaker
Okay, yeah, U.S. Agent also, though, is strong, but also goes in specific decks, you know? That's true. More narrow in usage, for sure, than Mockingbird, which you need for Thanos and a lot of other things. But man, with all that affliction spectrum I've been playing, U.S. Agent's Solos lanes is a beautiful card. Just swinging the lanes so hard.
01:21:54
Speaker
I have been pulling a lot of US agent Mystique. I have a little mini ongoing deck that's got, it's not a Spectrum deck. It's like Goose in Captain America. And the idea is, I've triple-landed Goose plenty of times with Nico giving me an extra Goose and then Mystique-ing it. So many decks just cannot, you have to snap it ahead of time. Send me. Because they are going to retreat when they realize they can't play me if they're four up cards.
01:22:23
Speaker
But I have, um, but like that, and then Mystique is also great to copy, um, U.S. agents. So yeah, I am. And it's like a reverse Galactus. That's just beautiful. Okay. Okay. But Silver Sable, if that's the only card you're missing, is it worth keys? I know. Not for a lot of people, I think.
01:22:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think if you really want the other two cards, maybe open for those two and maybe leave Silver Sable on the table. I don't know. That was a good one. I'm not that extreme. If you're going in for either... No, you should probably finish up. If you have three or four keys or whatever, you know, keep keying away. I'm always in favor of going until you get everything you're missing. I guess if there's a card you really know you're not gonna play,
01:23:13
Speaker
I don't know, Marvel Boy Week, if I didn't get Red Hulk first, I probably would have continued skipping Red Hulk. I literally haven't played him since I got him. Yeah, I tried him for five minutes in a Heimdall deck, and he made it worse. Yeah, I was excited to get him because I saw a lot of decks I wanted to try, but now that I have him, I really haven't... I don't put him in my own decks. Yeah, why would you? They just retreat when he gets big.
01:23:42
Speaker
I don't know. I like winning a lot of cubes more than I like winning one cube at a time is my feeling.
01:23:49
Speaker
I want to provide a contrasting item, too. With the way I plan spotlights, I go any card where I can... I am close enough to Collection Complete that any week where I can get two new cards, I will open that week. I don't care what the meta... Because I want all the options. My goal is to become Collection Complete. So there are two-week cards where it's like I don't particularly... Like with Red Hulk, I didn't particularly care to get them.
01:24:15
Speaker
But that was the card where I could get Red Hulk and the new card, and I always save Spotlight keys for those weeks and open them. So if that's your style, and you need two weeks, and you're also trying to do that, like, you know. Yeah, if you really value efficiency, the multi-card weeks are a great way to save keys. Yeah. Okay.
Closing Remarks: OTA Patch and Contact Info
01:24:37
Speaker
There's a patch slash OTA tomorrow. It's an OTA. We record on Wednesdays. So the only thing we know about tomorrow's OTA so far is that Hulkling will no longer copy himself. I guess the rest of that we'll talk about next week. And we will move on to the end of the show. We hope you enjoyed listening to our thoughts about Spider-Verse.
01:25:01
Speaker
If you want more, follow us on Twitter. I'm at Lauren Whatev's, Ben's at Benjamin underscore roller, Ree's at its underscore, just underscore Ree.
01:25:11
Speaker
and the whole podcast you can find at Snap on this pod. Find us on Twitter, YouTube, wherever you listen to podcasts, including now Spotify. That's just Snap on this pod. Like, comment, subscribe, leave a review on iTunes and Spotify. That would be fabulous. If you have any questions or comments or hate mail about Weird World or Martyr, send us questions and suggestions by email.
01:25:38
Speaker
That is SnapOnThisPod at gmail.com. We are a member of the new Snap Judgments network. While you're at it, check out one of the other great shows on that network, such as Snap Decisions. Briefly mentioned is Joe's podcast, which he releases on Mondays for guests and Tuesdays regularly. And he also does ad hoc coverage for OTAs. So that might be the fastest way to hear about tomorrow's OTA.
01:26:08
Speaker
Yeah. Thanks for listening. We don't have an ending yet. Keep on snapping. No, it should be like I would snap on that. Dear listener, I would snap on you.
01:26:27
Speaker
When I say that it's mean though, I'm like, snap, snap you, snap you, snap you! Okay, so it's not nice when I'm yelling. Oh goodness. We should come up with the good news again. We'll develop an outro that's for now. We can just fade into the guitars. And the banter over wailing guitars, is this cool? Works for me.
01:27:01
Speaker
We didn't actually mention snap decisions. We did that during the intermission. So, uh, previously mentioned. Oh, true, yeah. I think... I don't know which parts we would want to trim, but I bet there's something we should trim here. No, because I guess we're talking about the intermission, right? Obviously. This is hard. Alright, well that definitely has to go.