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Episode 11 : Sexual wellness, using the right sex toys and lubricants, with Jo Divine
45 Plays9 months ago
This is episode 11 and features the incredible Sam from Jo Divine. She has exceptional knowledge in the field of sexual wellness, sex toys and lubricants. We all need to ensure we have skin safe products, ones that don’t cause vaginal irritations and infections such as thrush. Often the high street is not a great place to find vaginal friendly sex products! But Jo Divine is a place to shop for safe, effective products as well as evidence based information. Jo Divine, an online store, was founded by Sam and her husband, Paul, in 2007 and allows you to shop skin-safe products discreetly.
I often recommend (to both sex coaching clients and my medical patients) the Sutil lubricants and the Yes lubricants as well as the IMMY for women new to sex toys or who are very apprehensive. Jo Divine have a very helpful health brochure to signpost NHS patients too.
The Jo Divine website is www.jodivine.com
Follow on Instagram @Jo.Divine
Follow Sam on Instagram @samtalkssex
As always stay in touch with me via email info@pressing-desires.com or DM via the social media channels Instagram, Facebook or Threads @pressingdesires
Remember to let me know the results of your Red/Amber/Green light act from this show!
You can see my website https://pressingdesires.mykajabi.com/ or www.pressing-desires.com and sign up to my emails and get your free ebook there.
Let me know your thoughts on this show, I’m always keen to hear your views.
Love and light
Dr Liza
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Pressing Desires
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to Pressing Desires, the podcast exclusively for women wanting to improve their health by unlocking their mind, body, spirit and sexual wellness.
00:00:19
Speaker
Join us on this transformative journey as we explore topics that touch your soul, invigorate your body, and reignite your passions. From cultivating a resilient mindset, nourishing your physical health, awakening your spirit, and embracing your deepest desires, nothing is off limits.
00:00:45
Speaker
Pressing desires is your go-to resource, featuring expert interviews, inspiring stories of triumph, and practical tips to help you unlock your true potential. Subscribe now, and together, let's embrace our pressing desires and create a life that exceeds all expectations.
00:01:07
Speaker
Get ready to ignite your passions and live a life with more pleasure. Yes, please. This is Pressing Desires, the podcast that empowers women to improve their health and go on a journey towards mind, body, spirit and don't forget sexual wellness. Hmm, I'm really looking forward to that last bit.
Meet Sam from Joe Devine
00:01:35
Speaker
Hello and welcome to this episode of the Pressing Desires podcast. Today I'm talking to Sam from Joe Devine. Her and her husband Paul founded Joe Devine which is a reputable and high quality skin safe sex toy company or sex products company I should say. So they sell amazing lubricants and sex toys
00:01:58
Speaker
and they are particularly helpful for any of us who struggle with any health conditions that might be impacting our sex lives particularly as Sam herself is a former nurse but now she is a health and pleasure expert. You
Joe Devine's Mission and Game
00:02:12
Speaker
might have seen Sam actually on a few of the Davina McCall shows so she has been featured in several media outlets
00:02:21
Speaker
So you might have seen her stuff before but her, their website is incredible with vast, vast amount of advice and knowledge on there. So particularly about health conditions and ways of overcoming those to make sure you've got a great sex life. So their ethos is to
00:02:38
Speaker
allow or help anyone, no matter the gender, age, sexual orientation, disability, health conditions, to enjoy pleasurable sex lifelong. So they have lots of advice and are always willing to speak to you if you've got any questions or looking for advice when it comes to lubricants or sex products. So check out Joe Devine. They're at Joe Devine on Instagram.
00:03:04
Speaker
But before we dive in to speak to Sam today, let's start our red amber green light game, which we do at every podcast. And of course, given the fact that we're talking to Joe Devine, the topic today will be sex toys. So are sex toys a red
00:03:20
Speaker
amber or green light for you?
Sam's Journey and Company Growth
00:03:22
Speaker
Are they red? A definite no-go. You do not like to use any type of sex toy in your sex life. Is it an amber? So does it depend on the sex toy? Does it depend on the partner? Is it something that you're considering or thinking about or wanting to set some boundaries around? Or is it a green for you? So are you well versed with using sex toys? And if so, if it's a green, then obviously let me know which sex toys
00:03:46
Speaker
are your favourites because I'm always interested to hear your answers to this red amber green light and as always you can direct message me on social media platforms or of course email me info at pressing-desires.com So yeah, our sex toys are red, amber or green light for you. But let's go ahead now and listen in to my chat with Sam from Joe Devine. Okay, hi Sam, how are you?
00:04:12
Speaker
I'm fine. Thank you. How are you? Well, thank you. Thank you so much for joining me this afternoon. I'm really looking forward to talking to you today. And I know people are going to find it so interesting because I think your work is fascinating. But why don't you start first and then tell us how you got into starting Joe Devine in the first place.
00:04:31
Speaker
OK, so I'm Sam Evans and my background is nursing. I trained in Cardiff many, many years ago. And yeah. And yeah. And I'm married to Paul. He's the co-founder of J.D. Ryan. In fact, it was his idea.
00:04:48
Speaker
15 years ago he was in IT in banking and he said to me one day why don't they have sex toy parties for couples like you know we know they have sex toy parties for women and we were going oh I don't know and then he started looking into it and at that time there were a few
00:05:03
Speaker
high-end sex toy companies coming to markets and there was Leylo and there was Fanfactory, Leylo Swedish, Fanfactory's German and also they were bringing sex toys to market which were nothing like your Rampant Rabbit, thank God, you know because nothing like the horrible jelly latex and rubber toys and the jelly toys that we had actually had in the past that you know literally I think I use one Rampant Rabbit twice and it conked out and then I got I got thrush anyway I'll explain why I got thrush but yeah and so basically
00:05:33
Speaker
We were looking around and thinking, well, we like sex. I'm sure other people do, but I don't think people know about these products. So he basically, we decided to set up a website. We came up with a name after a drunken evening in a pub in Suffolk, which was fine.
Partnering with the NHS
00:05:50
Speaker
So Joji Vine was born. And yeah, and then we started from there. And we started with one
00:05:56
Speaker
toy that we advertised in women's magazines which did really well. I would pack them every Sunday night whilst watching Lark Rice to Candleford. We've got the kids who are in bed, we've got three children, wrapping them in brown paper bags and paper paper and then Paul was still working so he'd take phone calls from customers, he'd nip to the loo at work, take the order, phone it through to me, I'd wrap the product, I'd take it down to the post office. In this orange, bright orange shopping trolley, he's called it a trolley of love.
00:06:26
Speaker
I've seen you with your trolley. I'm going, yes, if only you knew what the was inside the other. So, you know, small beginnings. And also, I didn't initially work for the company straight off because we had three children at the time. We still have three children, but they were small children. But I did come back into the company and started to realise that people were phoning us. They'd seen an ad in Woman Home, Good Housekeeping, Yours Magazine, and were buying the sex toy
00:06:48
Speaker
to help them with a health issue. So menopause, post childbirth, hysterectomy. And so I started writing articles because I looked at NHS websites and there was nothing. The sex advice was dire. It's still dire. It's very, very general.
00:07:03
Speaker
it's quite poor, the lubricant recommendations are poor. So yeah, so we built up a library of over 500 articles on the website. And I sort of, you know, developed my persona as a sexual health and pleasure expert. And yeah, it's gone from there. It's, you know, and we only sell skin safe products, skin safe sex toys and irritant free sexual lubricants. So one of the few sex toy companies to only do that. We're quite different and unique within the sex toy industry.
00:07:32
Speaker
We're sort of in the top five in the UK, online sex toy companies, and more and more people are learning about us and they're coming to us because of what we do. And the fact is that we won't sell people products that are potentially harmful to their health. Yeah, because you have got that big focus on sexual health as well. And by that, I don't mean just about
00:07:52
Speaker
sexually transmitted infections, which instantly, you know, that's what people think. If you talk about sexual health, people just think chlamydia or gonorrhea. And that seems to be the focus of NHS information when it comes to sex advice as well is avoid getting pregnant, avoid your STIs. But that's where it ends, isn't it? So that's the good thing about your, your, your business is that it does have that focus on actually sharing useful information, day to day information that's relevant to people.
00:08:23
Speaker
Well it's just when your sexual health is out of kilter it impacts upon your sexual pleasure and we're talking about sexual function here. So a lot of the people I help with health issues I'm helping them to regain their sexual function so they can reclaim their sex life or get back to enjoying what they had or enjoying even better sex. We often find that with some people because they're exploring different things that they've never tried before.
00:08:43
Speaker
and it is very much very clinical obviously within the NHS but it's brilliant because our little health brochure gets given out in the NHS now we created that with our local hospital and I love the fact that doctors like you and other healthcare professionals will whip out one of our sex toys and show their patients or tell them about well these are the better lubics or actually
00:09:04
Speaker
if a patient actually asks you a question and you really don't know and obviously we don't get it as part of our training, I was never trained about sexual health and pleasure
Sexual Health Education and Products
00:09:12
Speaker
apart from the STI bit and it is not taught in training and so often people have no idea what to say, they panic, they make comments that are inappropriate because I don't know what to say and actually having the brochure and having our website to signpost people to because often my healthcare professionals will say
00:09:29
Speaker
Yeah, I wasn't sure what to say, but it was fine. I said, I know a woman who can help you. I think also having a nursing background, obviously I have medical and nursing knowledge in my head. And actually when we get new sex toys sort of sent to us to try, I'm always thinking, what would this go in the health brochure? I'm thinking that looks like a really fun toy to use. But I'm thinking this would be a really good one to go in the health brochure. And for us, it's about normalizing sex, not medicalizing it and saying to people,
00:10:00
Speaker
using a good lubricant could really make a difference. Using a simple sex toy can really make a difference and it's fun and it's pleasurable.
00:10:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the key really is just not pathologizing things and just normalizing things and just going, well, actually sometimes it's just adapting and changing rather than that there's anything wrong or that there's anything wrong with you or that there's no hope. That's the conversations that I often have is that women will feel like they just can't have sex anymore and they have lost all their desire. And then they just think, well, it'll just never happen anymore.
00:10:38
Speaker
sometimes you do need just to go back to the drawing board and explore. Yeah and actually I think you know I get frustrated because my thing at the moment this week will be about hysterectomies because I get so many messages from people who are not given any advice post-hysterectomy and so they're struggling and obviously your vagina can shorten, it makes penetration feel uncomfortable, they often have been sent into a surgical menopause
00:11:02
Speaker
Then you get the impacts of, you know, the lack of estrogen on the tissues of the vulva and vagina, the need to use a good lube. One lady came to me, she'd already bought our dilators, actually, because she'd been struggling for a long time. And her doctor, her gynecologist said, oh, we'll go to eBay, you can get yourself some dilators and ask the woman in boots about lube.
00:11:19
Speaker
Well, I can tell you, don't ask the woman in boots about Lee. Don't buy the stuff in boots because none of it is skin safe. It's a struggle across the high street to find skin safe products. But yeah, and she was almost trying to do it herself. And I said, well, actually, did they give you any advice? No, she said, no one ever gave me any advice. And I'm finding it quite frustrating because I think that some of the clinical nurse specialists I work with are absolutely brilliant and the oncology nurse specialists.
00:11:47
Speaker
but there are some areas in the NHS and private practice where this information has not been given. And my view is if you're a medical or healthcare professional and you're doing something to a patient that's actually going to send them into a surgical medical menopause, it's going to change their gynecological function, you know, it's going to impact upon their libido and desire and their mental health, then you need to know about how to help them with enjoying sexual pleasure.
00:12:13
Speaker
But it's often left as an aside, you know, we know women have hysterectomies where, you know, everything is removed and they're not given HRT. I don't quite know where doctors think our hormones, our estrogen and progesterone comes from, but whipping out someone's ovaries, you know, is not going to help if you don't actually replace that. You know, obviously some people can't have HRT, so we need to look at alternatives.
00:12:37
Speaker
You know, I think it's like it almost feels like sometimes half a job done.
Holistic Sexual Health Approaches
00:12:42
Speaker
You know, you're not actually doing one big topic that has just been avoided. Yeah. Why is that still such a taboo? Like, do you think that's getting better or does it just seem to be the same?
00:12:55
Speaker
It is getting better. To me, I think it's bizarre that you would ever do any procedure to a vagina without contemplating how it might affect their sex life. Well, actually, the health brochure... I don't understand why you wouldn't just say... No, the health brochure was created at Tumbridge Wells Hospital with a gynecologist there, Eurogynecologist, the Pelvic Health Museum. My friend was a gyne award manager. We were called in and we did a little meeting. We took along products. We said, well, what would you like us to... They just wanted a sheet of paper. They were telling people to go to Ann Summers and buy a sex toy.
00:13:24
Speaker
in fact my friend was getting out her ipad on the ward and patients were ordering a toy for Mandsomers to be delivered by the time they got home but she wasn't really very happy with that and then obviously she met me we met through singing in the choir and and Alex Slat the consultant just said well I treat women so they can enjoy pleasurable sex again and Paul and I looked at him quite gobsmacked thinking
00:13:44
Speaker
You're the first doctor I've ever heard say that about anything, and it was brilliant. However, there are 14 gynecologists at the hospital, and I think only he and the pelvic health physio give out our health brochure.
00:13:56
Speaker
So and even I've done talks to the gynecologist there and one actually thought I was coming in to replace a sexual medicine doctor and I said no I said I own a sex toy company you should be able to talk about this and but actually one of them went off to be a consultant in Portsmouth and she now recommends us so it's great so it's all sort of little you know connections and people sort of know about you and they hear about you but
00:14:16
Speaker
I do think that it's actually, it's not part of training, it's not considered, there's no thought into it, it's no thought of, well, you know, you're 65, we've done a hysterectomy, why are you worrying about your sex life? Oh, we've cured your womb cancer, stop worrying about your sex life. But for me also, the hard thing is the younger women going through cancer treatments who are sort of told, oh, you don't have to worry about your relationship, you're not in a relationship.
00:14:41
Speaker
This thing always gets me, it's like, you know, and people are, you know, why are you worried about your libido? You don't have a partner. And I kind of think it's a bit of a, it's a really narrow view of things, but it is getting better. You know, I've stood up in front of healthcare professionals and done talks at conferences and, and that's great. And actually just to slap a health brochure in the hand and say, this lubricant's really good. You shouldn't be recommending KY.
00:15:07
Speaker
you know, for instance, you know, and I've had a therapeutic radiographer came up to me after a cancer tortures. I had no idea. She said, I'm going to stop, you know, and one therapeutic radiography department, they've actually been removing the lube with the dilators that they give out and putting in the S products, which is brilliant. You know, it's just some things. And also the sex lives of the health care professionals, too. A lot of people are using their products again. Oh, yeah, I started using your lube.
00:15:33
Speaker
I'm telling all my patients about it now. I think we've still got a way to go, but I think what we have created means that there's somewhere for healthcare professionals to signpost their patients to, to know there's somebody on the end of the phone who knows all a lot, has a medical and nurse and back knowledge, and has created all this information on the website.
00:15:55
Speaker
and I think it is reassuring because a lot of them will say well because you have a nursing background we feel you know we're happy to send patients to you because you're a reliable source it's clinical evidence-based information you put on your website you'll you know and actually I think that is good rather than just telling your patient or pop along to eBay or Amazon and go and get something from the supermarket as a lube and you know people have no idea what they need to buy and what would be suitable as well so yeah
00:16:23
Speaker
Yeah and that's the sad thing because I have patients where I recommend either the less or the yes or the lux lubes from your website and often they can say oh I've tried lube before and I really didn't like it and it didn't suit me and I found it really irritating and that I find really sad then because I think oh it's sort of like that was an opportunity and the products on
00:16:50
Speaker
you know, on the high street are awful. And it really is nothing the same, you know, then nothing alike. So I really then have to try and convince someone actually, no, try this and having a sample in my bag to go, this is what it looks like. This is what it feels like. I find that really helps them to go, okay, I'll give Lou one more go.
00:17:09
Speaker
So they find it transformative? Yeah, I mean, we
Sam's Personal Experience and Product Safety
00:17:13
Speaker
hear that. We've had people saying we spent all weekend in bed because we've been using your lube. Just the fact of spending, you know, what, 12 quid on a cheaper lube, that's going to last your ages. The luxe and rich does because it's long-lasting. You don't need to use very much of it. And actually, when people say to me, you know, I hear about women who've tried 30, 40, 50 different products, moisturisers, lubes, you know, washes, all sorts of things that cram the shelves in our high streets.
00:17:36
Speaker
and also being promoted online and certainly now being targeted at menopause or vaginas which drives me potty and it going back to my own personal health so in my 20s and 30s I met Paul when I was 23 and basically I was on the pill at the time and so I actually had vaginal dryness so we used lube and Paul went out and bought KY he bought Durex he bought you know there might have been a few other brands
00:17:59
Speaker
And basically, you know, we were having lots of sex because we're young and we're in our twenties. But actually, I started getting lots of infections. So I started getting thrush and bacterial vaginosis, cystitis, urine and retractive infections kept going back to the GP for antibiotics, for canister, because you couldn't get it over the counter.
00:18:16
Speaker
not one doctor asked me even what are you washing yourself with because was I using some scrub down there you know what are you even washing your clothes with what what what sort of sex are you having it was it was nobody actually asked me about this I didn't make the connection that actually my infections were being caused by the loop and having the infections then led to vaginismus so every time we have sex I'd be lying there thinking
00:18:40
Speaker
am I going to be up all night on the luresystitis? Am I going to be itching on the ward tomorrow with thrash? That then led to vaginismus, that's when your pelvic floor muscles tighten, it makes that painful or not possible. I didn't actually know what this was, I'd never heard of it. I got a diagnosis at 30 from a GP but even then he didn't even
00:18:58
Speaker
try to find out well actually let's have a look back and see this one's had loads of infections could that be a cause? He offered me stress management but I didn't take it because we moved to New York because Paul got offered a job there and actually weirdly enough the vaginism has disappeared the infections didn't disappear and it wasn't until we
00:19:20
Speaker
and we started using the yes oil based lubricant. And within a few days, I remember saying to Paul, I actually haven't had any problems. And he was going, oh, and he said, it felt really nice to use as well, didn't it? Started talking to the people at yes and discovered, actually, it's the ingredients in the lubricants that you were using. So glycerin, glycerin creates a sugar environment inside your vagina and that encourages thrush to thrive. It's a well-known vaginal irritant, makes the lube sticky.
00:19:48
Speaker
and it's cheap, so that's why it's put in lube. Propylene glycol, that's the ingredient that your patients may have felt caused irritation. It's the thing that causes the stinging when you first put on the lube, and also that can cause thrush and irritation. Parabens are preservatives. They're weak hormone disruptors that have been removed from skin care products and body care products, so you don't want to put it inside your vagina.
00:20:12
Speaker
Dyes, perfume, they're all irritant. You don't need a bright pink, although you don't need one that smells of vanilla. And we've got alcohol. We know that's drying to the skin when you put it in skincare products. So even more so to your oral vagina. We've got things like sorbitol. That's just another alternative for glycerin. And now we've got CBD lubes.
00:20:32
Speaker
So, you know, all the evidence around CBD is anecdotal. We don't have any clinical evidence research about the impacts that it may have upon the microbiome of the vagina. So I always err on the side of caution for people and I say just be careful, but some people might find that they help. We have CBD tampons and things and I know people think that that can help your endometrial pain, but I say to people
00:20:56
Speaker
You have to be an ingredients detective. I feel very angry at the lubricant industry because for 20 years I struggled. My mental health, my physical wellbeing, constantly had an itchy burning vagina and vulva, you know, wanted to have sex. My head was saying, yes, please. My vagina is saying, no, you're not coming in here. Yeah. And actually I've got a really patient husband of 26 years and within for 32 years, you know, and actually,
00:21:23
Speaker
We found alternatives, but I also didn't tell him that it was hurting. A lot of women don't tell their partners because I might, I wanted to carry on having sex, but often he was, you know, he would, when I told him he was really upset, but actually, you know, even now when I'm enjoying myself and I might make a noise and go, you all right?
Addressing Sexual Health Information Gaps
00:21:43
Speaker
Because it's ingrained in us and also any little irritation or itching, my head is straight away. Oh God, this isn't cystitis. Oh God, this isn't thrust, but having,
00:21:52
Speaker
started on vagina lesion in my menopause, which was the best thing ever. I wish I'd had it in my mid-40s. That has transformed my intimate health even more in addition to using vagina moisturizer and good sexual lubricants. So yeah, so that's my history and I will share that with people and it's amazing. People come to me, yeah, I've tried this. Oh, actually I do get thrush. I go, well, what are you using? I'm using this, you know, and it'll be supermarket owned brand, something that the doctors prescribed because we do have things on prescription. And I just say, you have to check the ingredients.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's just sad, isn't it? And it's just infuriating that these things are so readily available that cause so much harm. And I think that's the thing is, you know, people don't know and you don't know what you don't know. So you just carry on doing the same thing. So it takes time to kind of link up the cause, doesn't it? It does. I think the internet hiding industry obviously created for a
00:22:47
Speaker
problem that doesn't exist are smelly vaginas. And yet that's done far more harm than good. You know, and intimate watches, we've got perfume menstrual products, we've got scented condoms, you know, even the things designed to help you to prevent thrush contain glycerin that cause thrush. You know, I kind of think we couldn't make it up, you know, and now with menopause obviously being on trend, and obviously I'm part of that having been on the Davina program, but the products now that are being targeted at people's intimate health
00:23:13
Speaker
You know, and I just say you need to do your research and things that are on display at conferences and medical conferences. And you kind of think, oh, do you actually really know what that contains? And actually, you know, a lot of doctors are brilliant. They will ask their patients, well, what are you using? And a lot of the doctors I work with, you know, because they're already knowledgeable and they go, well, actually, you need to stop using that.
00:23:36
Speaker
cause that's actually causing that problem as well. That's actually exacerbating your symptoms as well. And the other thing as well, you know, with calisthen being over the, available over counter, yeah, great, but actually a lot of people are using it when they don't actually have thrash cause not all itchings thrash. So I help a lot of people who've got lichen sclerosis and other genital skin conditions. And so I always say to people, look, if a calisthen's not working, go back and be swabbed and be examined. You need to be examined because clearly
00:24:05
Speaker
It's not thrush or that treatment is not working effectively stopped. Keep buying colorstone from over the counter and don't buy those washes. Go and see your doctor and be swabbed and maybe be referred to a genital dermatologist. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because the amount of people now that do self-treat over and over again and they'll say, oh yeah, I just treat myself once a month.
00:24:28
Speaker
I'm like well that doesn't really make sense like you shouldn't have that once a month. It's not a it's not a monthly thing. Well and also it could be the lube that they use and they could be using an instrument brush, it could be the condoms that the lube on the condoms that they use, it could be this hex toy made from jelly latex or rubber. You know actually you've got to actually work out well what could the cause be and let's face it. Yeah what is the cause yeah.
00:24:49
Speaker
So what kind of common questions do people ring you up about then? Predominantly, people are asking for lubricant advice. So, you know, which is fine, they have vaginal dryness, or they've experienced thrush or UTIs and things like that. And that can be people of all ages, our customer base is 18 to 93. And also sort of people just, you know, they may have had health issues, so they want to buy a small vibrator to help with scar tissue, or they may have decreased sexual sensation, and following surgery, childbirth,
00:25:19
Speaker
and they may have a neurological health issue or they just want to buy a sex toy for the first time. They may have had a rabbit or something years ago that's corked out, you know, or they may be new to sex toys as well. And we get a lot of people also who are in new relationships and they go to have sex only in midlife and then they discover it's all a bit painful because they've now sort of gone into perimenopause and menopause and the changes have happened to the vagina and vulva. But also some people have not had sex for a long time. They may have had a partner who
00:25:50
Speaker
didn't want to have sex on, they didn't want to have sex with them, or they may have had a health issue, you know, they may have a partner who's died.
00:25:57
Speaker
to speak to a lot of people who've been widowed and they're buying a sex toy to help them with the physical side because it's never going to replace a partner but it can help with making you feel a little bit happier. So those are often the reasons we get asked all sorts of things really you know around sexual health and pleasure and also I help a lot of people going through cancer treatment
Enhancing Post-Health Issue Sexual Lives
00:26:17
Speaker
so it's not just a fact of coming to me to buy your lube and your sex toy often I'll say well have you seen the pelvic health physiotherapist because we've worked with a lot of them in the UK
00:26:26
Speaker
have you seen a psychosexual therapist? Again, I can signpost people because for me, it's actually a holistic approach. I often think, well, you know, I say, this is a brilliant charity. This is a brilliant support group. You know, I know that person who runs that contact her, she can help you. And it makes people feel a bit less lonely because they think, you know, there's something wrong with them, like I did with the vaginismus. We have people crying on the phone and then they get, gosh, you've given me hope.
00:26:53
Speaker
And each day people come to you and they think there's no hope. Well, I never even thought I could enjoy sex, let alone have sex this good. So, but yeah, generally.
00:27:04
Speaker
I expect that's the thing that actually their sex life is better than ever before because of that added element of focusing on pleasure, not just actually just doing it, but actually exploring what works and, you know, keeping things interesting. And actually offering something that they may not have tried for, you know, when we talked about the lube, our lubes can transform your sex life. I know that for a fact.
00:27:30
Speaker
And we get that feedback from customers as well. But also, you know, getting yourself a simple sex toy. If you're somebody struggling to orgasm during penetration sex because you're not getting enough clitoral stimulation, getting a little bullet toy can make such a difference. You can use that, you know, during penetration sex or on your own. And, you know, and obviously a lot of our toys can be used with the same sex partner or, you know, with a partner with a penis. Because I say, well, you can use it up and down the shaft of the penis, around the head of the penis, on the testicles, on nipples. I never thought about that.
00:27:59
Speaker
But my main aim is that people are having fun and also suggesting things like blindfolded sex, which heightens all your senses. And so those sensations that you feel and you hear and your sense of taste and smell and touch, all those things heighten your senses. It's about trying things and finding things that work for you. If they don't work, just have a laugh.
00:28:20
Speaker
I wouldn't
Creative Exploration of Sexual Pleasure
00:28:21
Speaker
write it up and move on to the next thing. But I often hear, you know, people have said, you know, post cancer treatment or, you know, post or going into menopause, actually, their sex life has got better because I've had to talk to their partner about sex to say, look, I'm experiencing for dino dryness, can we use this leave? And they're actually trying things that they've never tried before. And they're actually having a giggle and a laugh. And it's not all about, you know, penetration, because that really has penetrated sex. But it's about being intimate with a partner.
00:28:49
Speaker
And I think, you know, that's what we miss, I think sometimes from cancer treatments. So some of the people I work with are absolutely brilliant and they are talking to their patients about this. But I do think that sometimes, you know, we're talking about intimacy and actually it's not just all going, all guns blazing. You've got to have penetrative sex, even if it hurts, you know, or you just don't feel like it. And I would never suggest that to anybody. But I say there are other things you can do to fire off those sparks of
00:29:17
Speaker
desire and those sexual sensations. My everyday job is just selling sex toys to people who just want to buy a sex toy, generally. I'm an idea with all the health inquiries, so we do get those pretty much every day or emails or DMs, which is fine. Most of the time people say, I just need some advice, or my old rabbit's conked out, or male advice as well, because obviously we sell sex toys for
00:29:39
Speaker
you know, for men, you know, for penile stimulation, there's prostate toys and toys that couples can use together as well, so.
00:29:49
Speaker
So what's a popular product then? What's your number one, your number one seller? Well, that would be Soutil, Lux and Rich, the lube. But from a sex toy point of view, it would probably be the Leylo Sonna 2 because I showed it on the demeanor program. That is a sonic wave clitoral stimulator. It doesn't vibrate. It gently teases and crests a clitoral tissue. And it's a really good toy. It's very different to a vibrator. Got a lot of people who have struggled with decreased sensation.
00:30:19
Speaker
or desire or difficulty in getting aroused. I always suggest this to a lot of people by anyway, just for pleasure, but I say it gets things going. When you use this toy, it promotes the blood flow to the tissues of the clitoris and your vagina. That in turn promotes your natural lubrication. It promotes a lovely sense, lovely sexual sensations through those tissues. And it's a slow build. You just leave it in place and you just lie back and let it work its magic. But also,
00:30:47
Speaker
using a vibrator promotes the blood flow to the tissues of all the vagina as I said promotes lubrication and promotes sensation and it feels good and my view is when
00:30:58
Speaker
people struggle to say, oh, you know, I'm not sure about using a sex toy or, you know, doctor might say, oh, I can't tell a patient to use that. And I'm going, well, just view it as another tool in your toolbox to recommend to a patient. I have that sometimes with pelvic health videos and they're pretty open minded. They're really, really good, brilliant group of health care professionals I work with. But, you know, sometimes when you're trying to say to people, well, actually just say this simple little bullet vibrator is just another tool that you have, like you have your medical devices and things like that. So
00:31:27
Speaker
Yeah, so the Sonatoo, you know, and simple things like bullets, you know, we've got rabbits and things, it depends what people want, really, but generally it's sort of the sex toys, the vibrators, we don't sell a huge amount of dildos, which is the non vibrating toys. But people often start with something small, and then the next order will be something a little bit bigger, or they might go with the same thing in the whole range from Leylo or Fun Factory, and you find that they've actually brought all the toys from that range because they like that brand.
00:31:58
Speaker
Yeah, because I think when I've spoken to patients about it, when I show some of the products that you've got, I kind of start with the smaller ones because they don't find those as intimidating, and they seem to have this kind of perception that sex toys are giant on their scary devices. But they're not all like that, actually. They come in all shapes, all sizes, and you can
00:32:26
Speaker
But this doesn't even look like a sex toy. Obviously our own toy, which you've got the the Jodie Rine in me. And I always say to people, no, stop. Oh, you know, actually it's not about the size of the toy. Obviously some people like bigger toys. It's about what it can actually do for you because obviously lots of toys, you know, have cheap motors in them. They get quite buzzy. And so you want to buy something that's got a nice, deep rumbling motor that you've got a range of pulsation patterns, a range of speeds. It's easy to use. You might want battery operated.
00:32:56
Speaker
rechargeable, some are app controlled now. So it's actually when people say, can you recommend a toy? And go, well, I actually don't know what your needs are. So if you actually tell me, do you want it for external play, internal play? In fact, I had some the other day. It was a physio. And she said, oh, well, have you got a brochure of toys just designed for the outside? I'm going to put the toys in the health brochure. I said, are designed, they're internal and external. And I don't think she'd actually crossed her mind that you could just use a plastic vibrator.
00:33:24
Speaker
both internally and outside. So it's just about finding what works for you, but it's really important you do buy from reputable retailers because there's a lot of fake and used products available online and also the materials as well of sex toys aren't
Reputable Sources and Customer Interaction
00:33:41
Speaker
good. Yeah definitely worth investing in the right thing and you know avoiding causing yourself any harm and yeah you've just got nothing to lose if you go for a reputable brand.
00:33:53
Speaker
Well, also it's something you can call. I think that's the most important. Send us an email or DM us. We're pretty good at our customer service. Paul and I do all the customer service and we're really quick at responding to people and we can actually say, well, this is what you can do. Ooh, I've written an article. The fact is I love the fact when I have an article I go, ooh.
00:34:09
Speaker
Send them a link to that because that's much easier. So what's the one thing you wished every woman knew about sexual pleasure? Because you've been doing this for a long time now and I presume common things are common and common questions are common. But what do you wish that maybe we taught as part of sexual education early on? But what do you think is the one thing that is important for people to know about sexual pleasure?
00:34:38
Speaker
From my own personal perspective and also because obviously I give a lot of advice, I'm known as the lubricant, is using a really good sexual lubricant that can make such a difference because your lubrication is impacted upon by so many things, whatever your age.
00:34:52
Speaker
your menstrual cycle, pregnancy, breastfeeding, which I wish midwives would tell their patients to use a good leave when they're breastfeeding, which I've been told that. And those things, stress, anxiety, medication, antihistamines, people don't realise obviously it dries up your mucous secretions, it also dries up your own vaginal lubrication. And a lot of people are actually on long-term antihistamines. And in menopause, I take a really strong one and I need it for itchy skin.
00:35:21
Speaker
And you know, and obviously, menopause, but I sort of, that getting into the mood, I always say to people, you know, sort of, I pop a little bit of suteel on to get going, and then I don't need any more, I'm fine. And I kind of think, you know,
00:35:36
Speaker
for me it's actually about it feeling pleasurable because let's face it there's nothing worse than having your clitoris rubbed and everything's dry and someone trying to stick their fingers inside you and everything's dry it's like it's about it feeling pleasurable and getting started because often a lot of people don't know how to get started and so for me
00:35:56
Speaker
from because of the number of women I advise about lubricant, I always say, just pop a little bit of lubricant on and that should hopefully get you started. But I also want people to know that it doesn't have to stop. You're never too old to enjoy our sex toys and lubes. And I want to be like my 93 year old customer if I make it that long. You know, I want to say to people that
00:36:19
Speaker
sex can get better and it does get better with age when you learn what works for you and a lot of younger people now are not having sex because they don't want rubbish sex and I don't play them really. I think they're choosing not to have sex or choosing to have the sex that they want, not everybody.
00:36:36
Speaker
But I think, you know, maybe in the past, you know, I've had rubbish sex and didn't enjoy the sex until I met my husband. So, you know, but sometimes you do have to have the rubbish sex to understand, realise what the good sex looks like. Yeah. So, but I just want people to know and also
00:36:54
Speaker
So I know you asked me just one thing, but I also feel like libido, and I think we were going to talk about this. When I talk to people, I say it's not just the fact of you slapping on your testosterone. I use testosterone for a year, not for libido. It was for brain fog and joint for fatigue.
00:37:10
Speaker
I know it did work for a while, but I stopped using it because I've upped my exercise and eating healthier and the brain fogs disappear, but I think it's because I'm doing more exercise and eating better. And I say to these women, you need to look at life. I said, because life gets in the way and that impacts upon your libido and your arousal. If you're too tired to have sex by the time you fall into bed after you've done everything all day,
00:37:33
Speaker
and your brain's full of stuff like mine used to be, certainly in perimenopause, I switched off and wasn't really in the room even when we were having sex, thinking about pat lunches and washing baskets and honing and school consent forms and things like that, all those things that come into your head. And I say you need to look at all those things, you know, you're stuck between children maybe, you may have elderly parents,
00:37:58
Speaker
you know, you could be at the top of your career, you may have relationship problems, your partner may be experiencing stressful things, or they may have physical problems, you know, because a male partner could have erectile
00:38:09
Speaker
issues because of lifestyle or it may have a more serious underlying cause and I say if you go back and strip it back and then you might actually think actually no we never have time for sex and actually no we're always so busy doing this we've never actually spent time with each other in fact we've never even really talked about it and I haven't told my partner that I
Misconceptions and Normalization of Sexual Products
00:38:28
Speaker
feel like this and I'm too embarrassed to tell them because you know and then partners don't understand they got confused and they think that they're being rejected so
00:38:36
Speaker
libido isn't just a matter of popping a pill or rubbing on a bit of testosterone or you know you do have to you know don't get me wrong there are women out there who do experience very low libido and for them obviously testosterone can really work but for the vast majority of women
00:38:52
Speaker
I think it's actually life gets too busy. Especially female desire and libido, you have to take that holistic approach. You have to look at balancing everything. So that is always my recommendation, be it
00:39:08
Speaker
you know, adding in HRT and testosterone, etc. I still say it's so important for us to balance the foundations of good health, otherwise you'll never get the good outcome. And that's the most important thing. And yeah, I'm with you with the lubricant. I think there is this perception that if you have to use lube, it means you're not succeeding, or you're just your partner's not turning you on enough. Or you just don't really want it. But that's actually not true, is it? And
00:39:38
Speaker
actually we should normalise lubricants from really early on and actually you can use lubricant at any age, you know, it's not just from your 30s onwards, you can use it much earlier than that.
00:39:52
Speaker
Yeah, my daughter's a sex educator and activist, she's written a sex education book and she gave out lube on her last day in sixth form at her girl's grammar school, greatly received it was actually. And I do think this, it was a friend of mine, it was her friend who coined this phrase, a hierarchy of wetness, which I actually think is a brilliant phrase. And in fact, I was at an event at the weekend and somebody asked me, she asked me what I did for a living and then
00:40:16
Speaker
um and it was a conscious sexuality event and we were just chatting to each other and and then so she then started talking about her friend had breast cancer and I said oh you know I help a lot of people with breast cancer and and she and I said you know because it's really important she uses good lubricant she's oh yeah I don't need lube and then because so I was kind of like I said oh great I said well actually using a really good lube can make your sex life feel even better even if you don't use it I said I just use a small amount
00:40:40
Speaker
gets me going and then it's fine. I thought that's fine. She didn't need to use it, but it was just funny. Oh, I don't need it. And we have that sometimes with customers when I say, oh, and you know, they're buying a sex. And I said, oh, we recommend using the lubricant. Oh no, I don't need that. It's almost like, cause you're accusing them of this vaginal dryness. And I've also had women come up to me and say, you know, bleeding business women going, this is vaginal dryness. What is it? It's come out of the blue. It's kind of like, cause I don't really understand their bodies and what has actually happened to them.
00:41:10
Speaker
And then it's sort of like, as you say, they've tried something that's really not very good. It's put them off using lubricants. So therefore they don't use it. So carry on having dry sex or they don't have sex at all. They start getting all those infections. So I do think, but the problem is as well, yeah, great using lube from a young age, but obviously a lot of the lube brands will target the younger audience. And I know one very big condom and lube brand. I remember talking to somebody who was a marketing person there and I said,
00:41:38
Speaker
What about the over 50s? And should all know they're not our target audience? And I said, well, they should be a sex group. I said, a lot of them are having sex. I said, and actually, they probably use your products. And it would be really nice to actually see older people in your advertising. But on the other hand, I wouldn't use any of that irritating ingredients. And it's kind of like we've got brands now who are saying
00:42:02
Speaker
You know, oh, we've changed the packaging, it's all beautiful, but the contents are rubbish. You know, and all, because it means that women won't feel bad about buying lubricant. And it's kind of like, but actually if you looked at lubricant packaging and even sex toy packaging, the world has moved on. The packaging, when I think soutille, you know, it looks like you could have, it's a tube of moisturizer on your shelf, you know. Yes, products, again, there's nothing about them that is salacious or seedy or going, oh, that's a terrible, you know, or you've got a move on your,
00:42:31
Speaker
your shelf and things like that. So and the other thing as well within film and TV, we never see the lube being used. Oh God, he just managed to slip himself in. So without no lube, you know, nothing, it's kind of like, you know, we've had a few more programs now like sex education on Netflix, that's been really good. But it's like, you know, you never or when you see lube being used, it's used in a sort of unpleasant, a jokey way. Oh, well, you've got to use lube and it
00:42:58
Speaker
For me, it's kind of like, you know, how on earth are you managing to have sex? You've literally just ripped off her knickers. Is she ready for sex? Maybe she is. I don't know. But it's not what real life is. And again, we always love to never see the post-coital waddle to the toilet with the tissue paper. So to go and have your wee after you've had sex.
00:43:20
Speaker
never because never wants to see that. But that's actually what it is in reality. Yeah, absolutely. Very much so. Yeah, and I think that's why your work is so important because of raising awareness and just normalising things. And like you said, it isn't seedy at all. You know, it's not your, you know, back office room that's all blacked out on the on the high street. These are
00:43:44
Speaker
easily accessible, relatable products for everyone and every couple or couples. So I just think by normalising it, it can just make it so much easier and people just don't have to suffer, suffer through unpleasurable sex that is
00:44:00
Speaker
painful or causing them damage you know the amount of women I see who you know want to have sex they still think it's important but they just suffer through it and they just think yeah that's just that's gonna be it from from now on and and that's often their question is at some point will I just enjoy it and I'm like right are you asking me at some point are you going to
00:44:22
Speaker
change your belief that you enjoy this painful sex? Because the answer is going to be no. What we need to do is make the sex pleasurable. And then they don't see that coming. They just think, well, how could that possibly happen? Which is sad. You know, it's definitely sad. I think also, you and I obviously probably live in this bubble where I'm always like, I can't believe they weren't using the loop. And Paul's going, yes, Sam, but you know that the vast majority of the population. Why am I surprised?
00:44:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's like menopause, you know, I live in a menopause, and I was giving menopause advice at this event on Sunday to a man, actually, about vaginal estrogen for a friend of his, which was great. And, you know, I kind of think, oh, God, actually, sometimes, yeah, I need to, I have to remember that people don't have this information.
Challenges and Communication in Sexual Health
00:45:07
Speaker
And most people really want to know about it. But also, I feel sad when I hear people, they're mourning their loss of their sex life and their relationship. I hear people where the relationship's broken down. And actually, yes,
00:45:18
Speaker
sex is part of it, there may be another reasons too. And certainly in menopause or post cancer treatment. And I kind of think people are mourning the loss. They go, well, the sex used to be really good. And now it's just not great. And I feel sorry for my husband or vice versa. The husband or the partner might have erectile problems or they may be in the same sex relationship and their partner has got, you know, genital urinary issues, whereas they haven't. So they don't really know what they're experiencing. And I think this
00:45:45
Speaker
mourning the loss of your sex life, which is something I obviously talk to a lot of people going through cancer treatment, but also menopause or just the aging process as well.
00:45:55
Speaker
And I think these women, when I say to women, no, you need to stop if sex is painful. And I put my hand up. I was the one who didn't stop when I had vaginismus. Because I wanted it. I was the same. And I didn't know what was wrong. And I thought I was broken. And why was it always me getting these infections when I talk to women? They go, oh, I've never had thrash. I never had a UTI. And they go, oh, look at you. Whereas I have this gang of people now, a crowd of people going, oh, god, you know, another UTI. I'm coming to you to ask for advice because I know you've been through it.
00:46:24
Speaker
And so I think these women who are just lying back there and enduring because that's what they're doing. They're enduring, painful, unpleasurable sex just to get through to. And I know what it feels like. You're just waiting to get to the end for it to stop. And rather than actually saying to your partner,
00:46:42
Speaker
actually this is really painful, you know, because once I got my diagnosis and we started to, I opened up to call, you know, and then we would stop and we would do other things as well and we'd give each other an orgasm, but it wouldn't have to be penetrated to sex. But I still hadn't found the root cause of why I was getting vaginism, obviously with the infections, but they weren't stopping. So yeah, but you're right, it's, I just want to get across to women that it doesn't have to be like this.
00:47:04
Speaker
and also those women I get women oh I'd rather read a book that's fine if you're happy to give up on you know your sex life maybe it was never that good that's why we're here to help those people who want to enjoy pleasure in your sex and I hate
00:47:18
Speaker
certainly within the menopause community where you have these women sort of calling out those who want to enjoy carry on enjoying pleasurable sex just because that person no longer wants to or they've never enjoyed it or they don't think that we should be having sex beyond 40 you know it's um so i would say to people it's trying to be positive about it or i am positive about it because i know there are really good things that can help you enjoy
00:47:41
Speaker
good sex and better sex. So that's just the message that I want to get out of people. But, you know, if you want to enjoy good sex and better sex, then you can. Yeah. And it's possible for everyone. That's the other key thing, isn't it? It's like there is there's no situation where there is no hope. It's just about building that intimacy through good communication and good self exploration as well, isn't it, is actually getting to know and taking that time and being patient.
00:48:10
Speaker
to find out what's going to work for you now? Definitely and I think it's actually I'd say to people you know the sex changes I said and what works for you once no longer I know for me because you know things are shrunk my vocal has shrunk because of metaphors and you know things do change and sensations changes and desires change and your body shape changes and I know I've had a real issue recently with my body confidence never had it before and it's really quite upsetting
00:48:39
Speaker
and because I've put on weight so I'm exercising and darting but I think it's starting to work but it's in my head and actually that's really quite distressing too you know you're no longer that confident
00:48:51
Speaker
sexual being that you were and you're a different person to the person you were in your 30s to the one you're in your 50s 60s 70s and 80s. I love the conversations with our older customers though because they are a lot of them are so sexually confident you know they've had a good sex life they no longer have a partner the partner might have died they are missing their partner
00:49:10
Speaker
but they're enjoying their sex toy every night to help them drift off to sleep, to give them a good orgasm, to make them feel happier. Or they're in a new relationship, had 75-year-olds the other day, and they were the only people, though, who'd actually, she told me they'd actually both had sexual STI tests, because this is a conversation we have with a lot of people. So people tell us they're in a new relationship.
00:49:32
Speaker
And I say, oh, that's great. And are you using condoms? Oh, no, I don't need to use condoms. I can't get pregnant because I'm in menopause. Post-menopause. Yeah, you do, actually. It's really important that you do use condoms and you go and have an STI test. And they sort of, you know, I've talked to people, I've advised people who've had an STI in their 50s with a new relationship, maybe only after one encounter. So again, this is a message that we have to get across to the menopause and
00:49:58
Speaker
community that you know you do and older people you still need to use your condoms which is why that condom branch should be targeting the over 50s really. Yeah because actually there is more STIs now in the older population because people are starting new relationships more often or exploring more with other partners so more open relationships in the UK.
00:50:19
Speaker
So, yeah, I'm often telling people, and actually the problem is that a lot of old people don't want to go to community SDI clinics, thinking of sitting next to the 17-year-old waiting for my test. But actually, there's loads of home testing available on the NHS as well. So I always say, actually, you can get tests sent to your home. No one will know.
00:50:42
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. But you shared so many good tips there and such useful advice. But tell
Contacting Joe Devine for Advice
00:50:53
Speaker
us if people are really interested and they want to explore and develop their sex lives further or they've had any of the issues you've mentioned like having chronic health problems or recovering from surgery, recovering from cancer and they've been concerned about their sex lives.
00:51:08
Speaker
Tell us where people can find you and get support from you or advice from you. Okay, so obviously the website is www.jojivine.com. Just to say that some internet browsers and servers will block you because we are an 18-class website, you can remove those filters
00:51:29
Speaker
or you can ask your internet provider to remove those filters. Don't panic. But we also have a little catalogue, one of the few, I think probably the only sets of companies that has this catalogue that gets sent out with all orders, which people can actually phone up for.
00:51:45
Speaker
And then we have the Jodie Vine health brochures. Anybody's a healthcare professional and wants them for their patients. Or if you're somebody who's had a sexual health issue and would like one of those, there's actually an article on the website called the health brochure article. It has all the links to the products. There's hundreds of articles on the blog that people can call us at Jodie Vine. Paul and I will answer the phone. As I said, if Paul answers and you're a woman and you're panicking, don't panic.
00:52:10
Speaker
You know, I'm always happy to talk to you. If I'm not around, then we can call you back. But often some of the men prefer to talk to me, then talk to Paul. But Paul advises so many women. But obviously, I say to people, please don't hang up. You know, you can ask to speak to a female adviser. But you can email us. We answer lots of emails. DM on Twitter, but on Instagram. So it's joe.divine on Instagram. And I'm samtalksex on Instagram, where I post lots of short practical
00:52:39
Speaker
videos about all sorts. I occasionally have a rant about things as well about what has been said to patients or people, you know, some attitudes of people to older women and sex, but actually on the whole, it's generally practical advice. I talk about my own experience, what works for me. And also I can sort of tell people about other, you know, physios and psychologists, psychosexual therapists and charities. I work with a lot of cancer charities and other charities.
00:53:06
Speaker
So it's actually like a sex education feed, really. It's a fun feed too. So you can send me a message or you can just comment on posts and things like that. So, you know, just get in contact with us. We're always happy to help you. And if I can't help you, I'll say, but I maybe can signpost you to somebody who can help you.
00:53:25
Speaker
or a book or a website or a charity or somebody else who can actually help you. So, but yeah, it's really important you buy good skin safe sex toys and they've written free lubricants. And no question is stupid, you know, because you have to acknowledge if you probably hear this, you know, people's
00:53:44
Speaker
knowledge about their own bodies and their own sex education can be quite limited and so you know quite frankly a lot of people don't really understand how their body's worth. I'm always happy to advise people and often I can send them a oh I've written an article about that or you might find this video useful so yeah it's about a massive sexual health and pleasure resource in addition to having fantastic products that can make your sex feel amazing so
00:54:10
Speaker
Well, yeah, definitely go out there and read all your stuff and look through your catalogue because there is so much stuff there. It's such a rich resource and so much to explore and learn. I'll obviously link all of your social media platforms and your website on the show notes as well.
00:54:28
Speaker
But that has been so useful, Sam. I think the conclusion is, get yourself good lube. That will transform your life and then start exploring with all the various toys and just use it as play, isn't it? Be playful and just have fun with it. Because everyone deserves pleasure. Definitely. And whoever you are, whatever your age, gender, sexual orientation, health issue or disability,
00:54:56
Speaker
My view is if you want to enjoy pleasurable sex, then you should be able to. Exactly. Perfect. Thank you so much, Sam. That is brilliant. Thank you. Thank you for asking me to join you.